Browse content similar to 03/06/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
David Cameron says he understands why people are worried | :00:11. | :00:21. | |
about immigration, but says it would be madness to try | :00:22. | :00:23. | |
to bring the numbers down by voting to leave the EU. | :00:24. | :00:32. | |
We should welcome the fact that people want to come to our country, | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
work hard, make a contribution, pay into our system, but they ought to | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
pay in before they get out, and that is what I have secured. No more | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
something for nothing. What really happened | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
at Deepcut barracks in Surrey? This morning a coroner | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
will give his verdict in the case of Private Cheryl James, | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
who died there from a bullet We'll hear from the mother | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
of another soldier who's certain her son's death | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
was not suicide. The new inquest can make people come | :00:58. | :01:10. | |
into court, answer questions, and maybe we will get near the truth of | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
what happened to our children. All we have asked for from the beginning | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
is the truth. We just want to know the truth and give these kids just | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
this. A week after being abandoned by his | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
parents on a mountain in Japan, a seven-year-old boy has been found | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
alive. He was cold and hungry, but otherwise in good health. We will | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
get reaction from Japan. Do get in touch this morning | :01:37. | :01:45. | |
if you watched the Cameron Europe Are you any closer to | :01:46. | :01:54. | |
deciding how to vote? We'll be talking to a panel | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
of undecided voters a little later, And if you text, you will be charged | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
at the standard network rate. David Cameron has said the UK can | :02:05. | :02:14. | |
control immigration even if it He claimed that it would be madness | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
to try to manage the situation The Prime Minister was speaking | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
at his first major TV event of the referendum campaign, | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
during which he was accused David Cameron's political fate | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
rests on this referendum, And in his first live TV session, | :02:37. | :02:46. | |
you could see the stakes were high. He was quizzed on immigration | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
and the challenge of controlling But the Prime Minister kept | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
returning to his preferred theme. Now, if you want to get out | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
of the single market, which is what the Leave campaign | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
want to do, you will fundamentally The audience had some tough | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
questions, accusing David Cameron of scaremongering about life outside | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
the EU, and that's not all. I've seen you interrupt many | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
people beforehand. That is not answering | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
the question, OK? I was going to do Turkey, | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
if you want me to do Turkey. I'm an English literature student, | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
I know waffling when I see it, OK? There is no prospect of Turkey | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
joining the EU in decades. At this rate, they will join | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
in the year 3000. Remain supporters thought | :03:39. | :03:40. | |
the Prime Minister won on key arguments, but rivals | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
from the Leave camp said With all that stuff | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
about if we leave the European Union it induces the likelihood of war, | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
et cetera, the audience I thought that was the most telling | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
bit, because they were fed up with the scaremongering, | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
and there were accusations The spin kicked in as soon | :04:00. | :04:01. | |
as it was finished, with each side convinced their case was more | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
compelling, but with three weeks to go, they know the real challenge | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
is persuading the public. Tonight will be the turn | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
of Vote Leave to try. They hope their arguments | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
will resonate beyond the spin room. I have a suspicion that Downing | :04:19. | :04:33. | |
Street will be licking their wounds after last night's roughhouse. But | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
how far do you think they will be worried about the focus on | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
immigration? There are two issues that count in this campaign, as we | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
stare the final three weeks in the face. Any Gration and the economy. | :04:47. | :04:55. | |
The Remain camp thinks the economy is its strong card. David Cameron | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
was happily reciting the risks again last night. But the Leave can think | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
immigration is their trunk card. David Cameron tried to manoeuvre the | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
debate back on to economic grounds when he was pressed on immigration | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
hearing last night's event, but will that satisfy people? We know | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
immigration is of great concern, and it might come down to who you | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
believe about what matters to you most. We have to watch these | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
debates, we cannot turn over and watch the football. Does any of this | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
change anything? They can be crucial. If you cast your mind back | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
to 2010, Nick Clegg stood up in the leader debates in the general | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
election, many people credit his performance with putting the Liberal | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
Democrats in the Coalition Government. Last night was not that | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
pivotal moment, there were a key votes lost and one on either side, | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
David Cameron got a grilling, but he is familiar with the format and he | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
held his own. A challenge for the campaign, it is engaging public in | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
the debate. I don't think events like last night can hurt, unless the | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
politicians put a button wrong, when they can do damage. | :06:11. | :06:11. | |
And coming up later on BBC Newsroom Live on the BBC | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
News Channel, the Ukip migration and financial-affairs spokesperson | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
and MEP Steven Wolfe, who wants Britain to leave the EU, | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
will be answering your questions at 12:30pm. | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
You can get in touch via Twitter using the hashtag #BBCAskThis, | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary | :06:29. | :06:37. | |
A group of MPs has warned that the public will question | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
the point of remaining in the European Union | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
if the Government can't deport criminals from other EU countries. | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
The Home Affairs Committee said Poland, Ireland and Romania | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
The removal of foreign prisoners from the UK has been a contentious | :06:55. | :07:05. | |
MPs believe foreign nationals should be removed quickly at the end | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
of their sentence or even during their sentence if they can | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
serve the remaining time in prison in their home country. | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
Close to 6,000 convicted criminals are still living in Britain, | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
even after their release from prison. | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
We are very concerned first of all at the numbers in prison, | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
11.5% of the population, and the numbers who remain | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
These are people who should have left the country by now | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
Almost 50% have been here for more than two years. | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
Today, the Home Affairs Committee expressed its particular | :07:43. | :07:44. | |
frustration at the number of EU prisoners in the UK. | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
The three nationalities with the highest number | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
of offenders are Poland, with 983, Ireland, with 764, | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
The MP said one advantage of being in the EU should be | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
the easy removal of criminals to other member countries | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
and the clear inefficiencies in the system would lead | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
to the public to question the point of the UK remaining | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
The Home Office said that three times more European criminals | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
were being removed compared to five years ago and it expected | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
significant numbers of Polish prisoners to be transferred before | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
The verdict on a new inquest into the death of a young soldier | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
found shot at Deepcut barracks in Surrey will be delivered today. | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
Private Cheryl James, who was 18 years old, | :08:38. | :08:39. | |
was one of four recruits who died at the barracks | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
The inquest, which is the second into her death, began | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
in February and has heard from more than 100 witnesses. | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
He was missing for six days in a mountainous | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
region of northern Japan, but now seven-year-old | :08:58. | :08:59. | |
Yamato Tanooka has been reunited with his parents. | :09:00. | :09:01. | |
The boy was found in an army training base about four kilometres | :09:02. | :09:03. | |
from the roadside where his parents had left him as a punishment | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
It was a manhunt which involved more than 200 soldiers, | :09:08. | :09:17. | |
Seven-year-old Yamato Tanooka was abandoned by his parents last | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
Saturday in a densely-forested area on the northern island of Hokkaido. | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
It was a punishment for throwing stones at people and cars. | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
Nearly a week later, as many people were starting to give up, | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
He had managed to walk to a military training base, | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
TRANSLATION: One of our soldiers was preparing for drills | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
and unlocked the door of the building, and there he was. | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
When he asked, "Are you Yamato?," the boy said yes. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
For his father, it had been an agonising week worrying | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
about his son while being criticised for what many saw as a punishment | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
TRANSLATION: My excessive behaviour caused such pain to my son. | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
I deeply apologise for the burden caused to the people involved | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
in the search, and the school faculty. | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
With many accusing the parents of neglect or even child abuse, | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
the police may take action against them. | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
But for now, it is a happy ending that not many had expected. | :10:37. | :10:44. | |
Paris is on a high state of alert this morning, | :10:45. | :10:46. | |
with floodwaters expected to peak on the River Seine | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
The city council has closed a number of roads and bridges, | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
while the Louvre and Orsay museums have moved artworks stored | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
The flooding across France and Germany has left at least ten | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
people dead and forced thousands from their homes. | :11:01. | :11:10. | |
I understand that the president is going to declare a natural disaster? | :11:11. | :11:21. | |
He is going to declare a natural state of catastrophe for the areas | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
which have been hit, and insurance related measure, allowing people to | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
claim money back more easily. Here the focus is on the river, which is | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
good to doing to rise, it has become the latest tourist attraction, | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
because it is quite dramatic. All of the Riverside roads have been shut | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
off, the famous barges and boats that are moored alongside floating | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
above their normal level. It is quite dramatic but I don't think it | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
is dangerous. It will peak at six metres above its normal level, which | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
sounds a lot, but it is a lot below the famous flood of 1910, which | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
everybody kind of remembers, when it was up at eight metres, and it | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
poured into surrounding streets. It will peak at six metres at around | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
lunchtime, because of the head of water coming down from further | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
upstream. We have reported on the problems in the Department upstream. | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
The water is coming through, causing a big rush over the next few hours. | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
The museums are both shot so that people can move artworks out of the | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
basement. The hope is that by this evening and tomorrow the head of | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
water will have passed through on its way to the sea and the city can | :12:36. | :12:36. | |
breathe again. News just coming in, a rescue is | :12:37. | :12:47. | |
under way in the Mediterranean, south of Crete, after a boat filled | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
with migrants began thinking. Greek authorities say the 250 people have | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
been rescued from the semi-sunken vessel so far, but it is not yet | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
known how many people the boat is carrying or where it is from. | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News. | :13:07. | :13:08. | |
Later we'll have more reaction to the extraordinary story | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
of the Japanese boy left in the woods by his | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
We'll find out more about how he was found and ask if his parents | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Do get in touch with us throughout the morning. | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
Hugh Ferris has the sport, with the start of Euro 2016 | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
It may well have prompted more questions than given answers, | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
but England did at least win their final warm-up game | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
for Euro 2016 to head to France on the back of three in a row. | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
They beat Portugal 1-0 at Wembley after the visitors | :13:48. | :13:49. | |
Now, you don't often get a red card in a friendly, | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
but Bruno Alves couldn't really argue with this. | :13:55. | :13:56. | |
The defender sent off in the first half. | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
And it was a defender who eventually made them pay. | :14:02. | :14:03. | |
Chris Smalling heading in from Raheem Sterling late | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
on after what was frankly a disappointing performance, | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
and one that perhaps helps Roy Hodgson to manage expectations. | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
We will go to France recently -- reasonably confident that we can | :14:18. | :14:28. | |
keep this going. And also knowing full well that we are not the | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
finished article. I don't know how many teams are the finished article. | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
That is also quite a good thing, occurs had we won the three games by | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
four goals to nil, all people would say is, you have got to win it now. | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
With a young team, they won't put too much pressure on them. | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
So, England head to France on Monday having completed | :14:49. | :14:50. | |
Northern Ireland and Wales still have a game to go. | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
Northern Ireland play their final friendly against Slovakia | :14:54. | :14:55. | |
on Saturday, and Wales' last match before the Euros | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
Heather Knight has been appointed as new captain of the England | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
women's cricket team following the retirement | :15:02. | :15:03. | |
Knight has been the vice captain for nearly two years, | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
and will lead a much-changed side after senior player Lydia Greenway | :15:08. | :15:09. | |
also retired and wicketkeeper Sarah Taylor decided to take | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
Anya Shrubsole is the new vice captain. | :15:13. | :15:20. | |
Andy Murray will attempt to reach his first French Open final, | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
but he'll have to beat the reigning champion to do it. | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
The British number one faces Stan Wawrinka in the semi finals | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
He is obviously playing great tennis here the last couple of years, | :15:31. | :15:41. | |
especially. But, yeah, we haven't played each other much the last few | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
years. You know, that was indoors at the O2 last time we played. So, a | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
lot's changed since then. And, you may know in golf | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
when a player hits a wayward Well, there's a good reason | :15:55. | :15:56. | |
for it, so that this This is a Phil Mickelson tee | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
shot during the first round of the Memorial tournament | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
in Ohio, and that is the head Mickelson was understandably | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
apologetic and handed over a signed glove, | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
and went on to make a birdie Mickelson apparently | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
said if the marshal's head was a touch softer, | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
his shot would have I am beginning to think they should | :16:20. | :16:21. | |
wear crash helmets! Private Cheryl James, | :16:22. | :16:36. | |
an 18-year-old from north Wales, was found dead at Deepcut barracks | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
in Surrey in 1995. She died from a bullet | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
wound to the head. Cheryl was one of four recruits | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
to die at the base in seven years. The Army insists the deaths were all | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
suicides, but the families disagree. In a moment we'll hear | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
from the mother of another of the four, Private Geoff Gray, | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
but first here is a reminder of the events that led | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
to today's inquest. In 1995, Private Cheryl Jones was | :17:01. | :17:12. | |
found dead in woodland near Deepcut She was 18 and died | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
of a bullet to the head. Cheryl was very bright, | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
from an early age. She was always bubbly, centre of | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
attention. She was impossible to tell off | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
from a very early age, until she Between 1995 and 2002, | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
three other soldiers also died The deaths came amid claims of abuse | :17:36. | :17:44. | |
and bullying. And another 17-year-old, | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
James Collinson. The Army treated all the deaths | :17:51. | :18:04. | |
as suicide, but the families The current inquest is looking into | :18:05. | :18:06. | |
Private James' death. The previous one, in 1995, | :18:07. | :18:16. | |
returned an open verdict. That is when the cause of death | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
could not be established. From 2002 and 2003, a police | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
investigation into the four deaths said there was no | :18:27. | :18:28. | |
evidence of a crime. However, a later review of the | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
investigation criticised Surrey Police for not fully | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
investigating the death. Three years later, | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
a review by a senior lawyer concluded all four deaths | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
were probably self-inflicted. Then two years ago, the High Court | :18:47. | :18:48. | |
ruled the first investigation into Private James' | :18:49. | :18:50. | |
death was flawed. A second inquest was ordered | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
and that is the verdict The coroner looking into the death | :18:57. | :18:58. | |
has heard It will focus on the state | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
of her mental health at the time. And he will also look at a claim of | :19:03. | :19:11. | |
attempted rape. Six years after the death | :19:12. | :19:23. | |
of Cheryl James, in 2001, 17-year-old Private Geoff Gray | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
was also found dead He had two gunshot wounds | :19:29. | :19:30. | |
to the head. The original inquest | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
recorded an open verdict. Since then, for the last 14 | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
years his parents have been fighting a campaign for not only a second | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
inquest into his death, but a public inquiry | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
into the events at Deepcut. Just before we came on air, | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Private Gray's mum Diane joined me, before heading off to Cheryl James' | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
inquest in Surrey. Diane, this is clearly a huge day | :19:57. | :20:10. | |
for you. But just give us a sense first of all about Geoff, the sort | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
of boy he was, why he joined the Army, what he was hoping for in the | :20:16. | :20:22. | |
Army. He really - he loved the Army. He went by himself and he joined up | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
for the Army. He had no hesitation with it, if that's what he wanted to | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
do we were happy with it and he went himself and sorted things out and | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
then took his father with him to sign him up. He was quite happy. Had | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
it always been an ambition of his to become a soldier? I don't think it | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
was. From being small he enjoyed being in the Scouts and he followed | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
the Scouts all the way through. He did like some sort of regime and | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
discipline type of thing. I think what spurred him on the most was | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
because when he was 15 he went to a park and done a run and he became | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
east London's fastest man at 100 metres with over 12 seconds and | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
somebody spotted him from the Army and said we can help you make a | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
career of this and I think that put the seed into his head and started | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
him thinking about joining the Armiment So here you have a | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
17-year-old boy in the Army. Now, did you get any impression from him | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
that he was being bullied or he was uncomfortable with the culture, was | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
there anything that gave you a sense that this is all going wrong? No, | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
none whatsoever. Absolutely nothing. He was quite an open person. If he | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
had a problem we would talk about his problems. We always - a very | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
close family and we discussed things like that. If anybody had anything | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
wanted to say, they would come out and say it, very blunt. He would say | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
what he thought. He didn't hide his feelings. So when you learned of his | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
death, I mean, that must have been utterly devastating, but more than | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
that, did you ever believe that he had taken his own life? Not for one | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
moment. I think every parent knows their child and you just know, hang | :22:10. | :22:17. | |
on, that's out of the blue. Just, I couldn't comprehend it. It was just | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
something, like, what? Total shock to begin with and, hang on, you are | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
trying to tell me he has done it himself? And it was, you know... I | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
was told three shots were heard at 1. 15 this morning and Geoff was | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
found dead. Did he miss twice? I was unaware then that he had been shot | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
twice. It was just out of the blue... What was the sort of initial | :22:44. | :22:52. | |
response from the military? Um... They just told us that, you know, | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
try and keep it quiet. He has committed suicide. Don't put shame | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
on the family. You don't want to put shame on the family? Yeah. So that | :23:01. | :23:11. | |
to me was a... Did you ever think possibly this could be correct or | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
no, this is not believable? From the beginning I thought it's not | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
believable. But then over time I began to think, well, you know, | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
maybe it is right. Maybe it is what they're telling us, it's suicide. | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
But the more I found things out, the more it became more bizarre and the | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
more proof I was getting that it wasn't suicide. Let's just talk | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
through the mechanics of who actually carried out the | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
investigation and what did they do? Originally the coroner's office was | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
first on the scene. She took some things. Then Surrey Police arrived. | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
They didn't do much investigation. I can remember a few days after we | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
were told about his death I phoned Surrey Police and said I want to | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
speak about my son who died at Deepcut and they gave me a total | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
different name. I said, no, my son's called Geoff. Again they gave me a | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
different name. So that raised doubts. Hang on, has there been a | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
death before Geoff, which there had been because Geoff had already told | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
me that a boy had died a few weeks before him. Again they were took to | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
a room and he said, we were told, the boy committed suicide. But I | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
never heard anything more from Geoff about that. But I did later find out | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
that, through Surrey Police, the boy had taken an overdose. What did you | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
think was going on, did you think it was incompetence? Yet I didn't think | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
anything at the time, because I was thinking well, the police will do | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
their investigations, you know, we trust the police, we think that they | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
are going to do, maybe too much CSI or something, but we trust the | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
police and think they're going to do a thorough investigation and that's | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
what I thought at the time. I thought they would do a thorough | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
investigation. What do you think now, because obviously there's been | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
this review by the Cornwall Police of what the Surrey Police | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
investigated and their work which had been highly critical, when you | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
look at that what is your assessment of what was going on? Devon and | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
Cornwall look at Surrey Police's investigation and they picked up a | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
lot of flaws from Surrey Police. They found out they were supposed to | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
follow what's called the murder manual and they didn't. All they | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
looked at was suicide, which they shouldn't have. They... Their | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
mindset was? Suicide from the very beginning. It shouldn't have been. | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
It should have been open and they should have looked at different | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
aspects and different scenarios and certain things, you know, they | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
should have looked and gone from murder, down to suicide. But they | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
didn't. They started at suicide and made everything fit into suicide. | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
What I am interested in is whether you think they were just not up to | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
the job, they had already decided it was suicide or whether you think | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
there was something else going on here? We have received documents | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
from Surrey Police, at the original inquest we had about 20 pages of | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
papers before we went in. This time we have 20,000 documents from the | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
reinvestigation. Within them documents we can find out that | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
Surrey Police have been, not incompetent, they've had the mindset | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
of suicide, they've followed suicide, and there is things in | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
there they've never told us, we had to find out ourselves. Maybe, I | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
don't know, maybe I can say it's a cover-up, I don't know. Why do you | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
say that? Because it's been sue from the very beginning with the Surrey | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
Police. -- suicide. If it is suicide, why? What would be their | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
motivation to cover up? I have no idea. That's something I can't | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
understand, I never can understand that, I don't know why. And why | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
they've been told to make it look like a suicide. I have no idea. Do | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
you suspect it may be because of the bad publicity for the Army, that | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
they wanted to douse that down, is that part of it? No idea. I really, | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
really, don't know. At first we think this is a big cover-up. But | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
the more we have looked into it and the more information we are getting | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
from it, it's just... Bizarre and why would Surrey Police want to make | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
it look like a suicide? There was a lot of collaboration going on with | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
the Army at the time. Why did they have to do that? Why were they going | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
to dinners with the police and Army getting together and having dinners | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
and things, why was there a need for that? Your son is one of four. Yeah. | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
How did you get involved with the other families and what was the sort | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
of - how did you work together, or did you work together? When Geoff | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
died we let the police get on with their investigations. Six months | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
later, there was a little piece in the newspaper saying that another | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
person had been shot at Deepcut. So I phoned the coroner's officer and I | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
asked her, will you pass my number on to the parents. Later on that day | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
I received a phone call from the parents of James Collinson and said | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
what have you been told. She said we have been told he committed suicide. | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
I said, do you believe that? She said, no. I said believe what's in | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
your heart. One thing I will say, please whatever you do, do not get | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
him cremated because one day you will need to go back and look at him | :28:33. | :28:42. | |
again, which it was true. He did have to be exhumez and they did find | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
evidence that will come to light later. Today we have the inquest | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
into Cheryls James. Previously an open verdict. What do you hope for | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
from this inquest? From the inquest I am hoping that it will open the | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
doors for the other families to have a new inquest because it sets a | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
precedent so that we can have a new inquest and then when we have the | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
new inquest more things will come to light because it's - because you can | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
bring people to bring evidence. At the time there was a review. This | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
was ordered by the Labour Government? That's right. I think | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
that was to try to keep us quiet because we have been asking for a | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
public inquiry all the way along and keep getting turned down. Rather | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
than do that they gave us a Blake Inquiry but it was only an inquiry, | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
it had no powers to bring people. He had limited information at the time. | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
Now we have a lot more information. He can only work on the information | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
he is given from the police and if the police don't want him to know | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
certain things they're not going to give it to him. So he is limited to | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
what he could review. Therefore, his conclusions, you know, he came up | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
with the same scenario, it must be suicide. But now the new inquest can | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
make people come to court and answer questions and maybe we will get | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
somewhere near the truth of what happened to our children. All we | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
have asked for, from the very beginning, is the truth, we just | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
want to know the truth and give these kids justice. | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
You'll hope is that the inquest could pave the way to an inquest | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
into your son. We will put an application in to the Attorney | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
General, and hope to get our original inquest overturned, and | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
then a new inquest opened. One of the extraordinary things is you have | :30:38. | :30:45. | |
kept going all this time. On a personal level, have you ever | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
doubted, have you ever thought, I have to move on with my life? For | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
you personally, what has this been like? It has put a strain on the | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
family health-wise. Some days you want to give up, some days you | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
think, my son was worth fighting for, and I will fight to the end to | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
get justice for him. Any parent that loses a child and they don't do what | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
happened, surely that is all we ask for, the truth, you want to know | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
what happened so that you can move on with your life. | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
More reaction later in the programme. | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
Cameron faces tough questioning over immigration in his first EU debate. | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
We ask a panel of our undecided voters how they saw it. | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
And the seven-year-old boy who went missing after his parents left him | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
alone in a forest for being naughty is found unharmed after six days. | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
Here's the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :31:49. | :32:01. | |
David Cameron has said the UK can control immigration even if it | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
The Prime Minister was speaking at his first major TV event | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
of the referendum campaign, during which he was accused | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
The PM claimed it would be madness to try to manage the levels | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
of migration after leaving the single market. | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
A group of MPs has warned that the public will question | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
the point of remaining in the European Union | :32:27. | :32:28. | |
if the Government can't deport criminals from other EU countries. | :32:29. | :32:30. | |
The Home Affairs Committee said Poland, Ireland and Romania | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
The Home Office said three times more European criminals | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
were being removed compared to five years ago. | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
The verdict on a new inquest into the death of a soldier found | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
shot at Deepcut barracks in Surrey will be delivered today. | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
Private Cheryl James was one of four young recruits | :32:51. | :32:52. | |
who died at the barracks between 1995 and 2002. | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
The inquest, which is the second into her death, began in February | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
and has heard from more than 100 witnesses. | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
A rescue operation is underway in the Mediterranean, | :33:06. | :33:07. | |
south of the Greek island of Crete, after a boat filled | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
Greek authorities say that 250 people have been rescued | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
It's not yet known how many people the boat is carrying, | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
A seven-year-old boy who was left on a mountain road in Japan | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
as a punishment by his parents has been found unharmed | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
Yamato Tanooka was discovered in an army training base | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
about four kilometres from where his parents had left him. | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
He was cold and hungry but otherwise in good health. | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
There have been calls for his parents to be prosecuted | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
for leaving him in an area which has many wild bears. | :33:43. | :33:44. | |
His father said he had apologised to Yamato. | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News. | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
Hugh Ferris has this morning's sports headlines now. | :33:52. | :34:04. | |
Roy Hodgson's assessment that England are not the finished article | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
would not have come as a surprise to those who watched them beat logical | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
1-0 in their final friendly. A Chris Smalling header late on. Woodland go | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
to France on the back of three straight victories. | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
Heather Knight is the England women's cricket team captain | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
following the retirement of Charlotte Edwards. She steps up from | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
being vice captain. Andy Murray will attempt to reach | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
his first French Open final, but he will have to beat the reigning | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
champion, Stan Wawrinka, in the semifinals this afternoon. | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
Greg Rutherford jumped as far as he did to claim gold at the London | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
Olympics to win the long jump Diamond League event in Rome last | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
night. 8.31 metres. His best leap of the season so far. | :34:52. | :34:52. | |
More later. David Cameron was accused | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
of "waffling" and "hypocrisy" by some people at last night's TV | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
debate on Sky, but he gave an impassioned defence of why | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
he believes Britain should remain He conceded that immigration | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
is a worry for many people, but said leaving is not the answer, | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
and he said a life outside the EU risks rolling a dice | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
with our children's future. We will talk to our audience of | :35:17. | :35:25. | |
undecided voters in a moment. First, let's listen to some | :35:26. | :35:32. | |
of what he had to say. I put it to you again that | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
you just cannot control... I mean, it is oxymoronic, | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
some might say lose the "oxy", You cannot control freedom | :35:41. | :35:42. | |
of movement, so why did As I say, there have been many years | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
where movements of people out of Britain into Europe, | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
out of Europe into Britain can have You knew this a year ago | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
when you re-stated this promise. You made the promise again, | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
and it is a promise which cannot be fulfilled while we remain | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
in the European Union. I think it remains the right | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
ambition for Britain. You seriously think it can be | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
fulfilled whilst we stay Because there have been years, | :36:13. | :36:14. | |
and there will be again, where people from Britain choose | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
to go and work overseas... Has this happened in any single year | :36:20. | :36:21. | |
of your Premiership? It happened in the first year I set | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
out the ambition. Can you seriously see it happening | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
at any period whilst you're still Prime Minister | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
in the next four years? What I will say, Faisal, | :36:31. | :36:31. | |
is there are good ways of controlling immigration, | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
and there are bad ways. A good way is doing what I did | :36:37. | :36:38. | |
in my renegotiation. Sometimes this organisation | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
drives me crazy, but do I sit there and think Britain would be | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
better off if we left? Do we think we quit | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
the European Union, we quit the single market, and somehow | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
we will be better off? The European Union does not stop | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
existing if we left. The Channel does not | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
get wider if we leave. A group of people would be sitting | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
round a table making decisions about our biggest market, | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
about the future of our continent, about things which affect us, | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
and we would have our nose sort of pressed to the window | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
trying to find out what Now I will answer your | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
question about Turkey. No, no, let me finish now, | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
I have seen you interrupt I am an English literature | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
student, I know How can you reassure the people | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
who do want to vote out, because I have many friends | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
who want to vote out, that we are safe from extremism, | :37:37. | :37:38. | |
when we are willing to work with a government like Turkey, | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
who want to be part of the EU, when, like I said, they are under | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
heavy acceleration? It is like Saudi Arabia, | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
who we sell military arms to. There is no prospect of Turkey | :37:50. | :37:57. | |
joining the EU in decades. At this rate, they will | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
join in the year 3000. Do you regret the personal damage | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
that your scaremongering campaign has done to your | :38:10. | :38:11. | |
reputational legacy? James, with respect, | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
I don't agree. I think there is a very | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
positive case for staying It is about jobs, it is | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
about Britain's strength and place in the world, | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
it is about keeping us safe. I think there are real | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
risks from leaving. I don't accept it is | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
scaremongering, sir. I am genuinely worried about Britain | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
leaving the single market. I think he probably needed a stiff | :38:37. | :38:46. | |
drink after that. Fiona Bell is 48 and a health | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
campaigner from Northumberland. She took part in the Sky | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
debate last night. Jo Musa is a 28-year-old business | :38:53. | :38:54. | |
entrepreneur who is undecided, and so is Moghul Veyhron, | :38:55. | :38:56. | |
who is a 27-year-old music Joining us from our Salford studio | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
is 35-year-old mum Sofia Ahmed, who's undecided and thinks | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
immigration is one of And Rebecca Connolly | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
is 19 and was undecided. She joins us from our | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
Belfast studio. You were there, would you hyped up | :39:08. | :39:18. | |
on Coffey something? It seemed to be a rough house. It was a 3-way split. | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
The undecided people, the ones who wanted to be in and the ones who | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
wanted to vote out. What came across quite strongly. There were quite a | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
few young people in the audience, some of them wanted to vote in, but | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
they were quite angry with David Cameron. They had legitimate | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
reasons. They have had tuition fees put up to 9000 a year, they were | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
asking how they can afford to live, you have got the likes of student | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
nurses that will not get bursaries anymore. Where you GW for to get | :39:57. | :40:03. | |
really pumped up, or was that the natural response? It was the natural | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
response to David Cameron. After the cameras stop rolling it still going | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
on. He watched on the box, lurched -- let's talk David Cameron. Did he | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
do with decent job selling Remain? He tried his best, but I think | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
people are disgruntled with him. There is a lot of distrust, which | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
makes it difficult for us to decipher the real issue. A lot of it | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
went on to the NHS and other things, but the issue is not what we are | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
walking away from but what we are walking away with. I agree. People | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
are trying to address everything in one setting, that is what caused | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
uproar. Do I think he has sold it? Not necessarily. He reiterated the | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
same point again and again, he talked about the car industry, the | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
one economy, so he kept coming back to the same point, but there was no | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
progression or direction of where we are going. There was a constant | :41:09. | :41:18. | |
refrain in the audience that he was scaremongering, he was trying to | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
frighten voters. Do you think basically he is trying to give you | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
the heebie-jeebies, make is terrified and he is over inflating | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
the argument? Of course. I am glad the audience brought it up. It has | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
been bordering on the ridiculous, world War three is going to start, | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
there will be holding in courts of Turkish people coming in. That is a | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
reason why I am undecided, because I don't think I have had concrete | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
arguments from either side of the debate. I am glad the audience | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
picked that up and went for it regarding that. He had his serious | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
face on, he said, I think there are risks, pay attention. Do you think | :42:02. | :42:10. | |
he genuinely is worried? Or is it a PR pitch to try and put the squeeze | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
on people, that they dare not take the risk? I think it is a bit of | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
both. It is both from both sides. Who can scare who the most and who | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
can scare who into leaving or staying? I am very undecided, my | :42:26. | :42:33. | |
heart says to stay in Europe, but I am coming into work everyday and I | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
am looking at the newspapers, they say, if we stay, this will happen, | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
you will lose your jobs. We have not been given any concrete evidence. I | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
am interested in politics, I have gone out of my way, I travelled to | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
Brussels to see what the EU looks like. For somebody that would not be | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
interested, I cannot imagine what it would be like. There is a lot of | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
concern about the tone of debate, the lack of information. One subject | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
which came up again and again last night was immigration. Would that | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
shaped the way you decide to vote? Is it an issue which you think, that | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
is what is going to make my mind up? I don't know. In terms of the NHS, | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
where I am coming from, we are dammed if we do and we are done if | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
we don't. The NHS has loads of nurses, doctors. Yes, hard-working | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
nurses and doctors from abroad. They prop up the NHS. Does that not make | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
you think, we depend on them? You have to look at the flip side, and | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
you say to David Cameron, as I tried to last night, will he give these | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
stuff the tools and resources if we stay in so they can do the job and | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
meet the demand? If you look across the NHS, it is struggling, it is in | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
crisis. Paramedics and Anne Boleyn screws, only last night I had a | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
family contact me, they said their mother was on a jolly in accident | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
and emergency for six hours because the paramedics had to stay with her | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
until she could be booked in -- on age folly. They don't have the | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
resources. If we stay in, we need the resources so that the staff can | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
do the job. If we go out, how do we fill the gaps? Your take on | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
immigration? It is coming back to immigration a lot. We are a | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
forward-thinking nation. We have problems in front of us. Staying in, | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
we know what the hurdles are, we can try to work those things out. By | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
leaving, I don't think it will solve a problem like immigration. We will | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
just end up with a few more problems. For some like me, just a | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
general person who is trying to look into the issue, I am not hearing | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
anything sound about how it is going to be dealt with either way. If we | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
leave, it is not necessarily going to provide the answers we think we | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
are going to get. Jo? Absolutely. There's nothing | :45:06. | :45:15. | |
concrete to say are we better staying or leaving? That's the key | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
issue, are we better off? As a forward thinking nation as you said | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
we have to always look ahead of time and not wait for the issue to come | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
to our door. In a case like this, you know, we migrate everywhere, | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
people do business abroad and people do business here. We have to look at | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
how does that affect our trade and everything else. So it's not just | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
what is good for Britain but gad for everyone as a whole. Sofia, the | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
argument seemed to be I will immigration is an issue but more | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
important is ensuring the economy kicks ticking over and I think it | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
was said let's not crash the economy to deal with immigration. In your | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
mind, is that the sort of decision you have to make, whether the | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
economy is more important than immigration, is that how you weigh | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
up the arguments here? I know that David Cameron tended to kind of push | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
everything towards that. He must have said single economy about | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
100,000 times! The single market. Yeah, the amount of times he said | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
that last time was just astronomical. For me this debate | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
around the immigration is troubling. As a second generation Pakistani | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
from an immigrant family I am worried about the way that people | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
have been framing this debate in the media, the way politicians have been | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
framing it. There seems to be a lot of scapegoating. I personally | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
believe that the problem that is we have with public services shouldn't | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
all come down to the fact that we have a lot of immigrants coming from | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
the Eastern Europe and various other places in Europe, it's down to the | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
fact that we are underfunding the actual services and the fact that | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
there has been massive cuts that have affected the NHS that have | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
affected day-to-day lives for people that live in areas with high | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
immigrants and really to stop scapegoating immigrants. I don't | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
think that's an issue. Rebecca, is this an argument about immigration | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
or is it again an aringment about David Cameron because he is stuck on | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
this pledge of his to get net migration down to the tens of | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
thousands. I wonder if the issue is not much about immigration, but | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
about David Cameron's credibility and trust again because people think | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
he hasn't kept that pledge, I am not sure I trust him. Cameron's | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
character has come into question. He came back from Europe with this | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
grand pledge that not many people actually trusted. So I do feel like | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
immigration and the whole subject around it has been used as a | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
scapegoat. I don't feel immigration is the issue. A lot of people, | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
especially in Northern Ireland, a lot of people blame immigration on | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
the feeling - failing of our NHS. Northern Ireland especially, we know | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
that what needs to be done with our NHS. It's our decision-makers won't | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
put it into play. I mean, I reject the point that it is immigration. | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
But I believe that David Cameron is using it as a scapegoat. You have | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
said you went over to Brussels to look at the institutions so you are | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
clearly someone motivated. What more do you need to hear and what do you | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
want to hear to make your mind up? I mean, I really believe that there is | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
no right or wrong answer when it comes to voting in or out. I think | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
that it's a personal answer. So, I want to know personally what it | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
would mean to me if we stayed in Europe and if we left. As a young | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
person in full-time employment this year, going into full-time education | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
next year I want to know what would benefit me if I stayed or if I left. | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
Briefly, Sofia, what's the key thing for you now that's going to | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
determine how you vote? The key thing for me is based on the way | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
that the debate carries on from here. I want people to start | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
speaking facts, I want them to stop kind of using scare tactics. I want | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
them to give us facts, give us details and treat us like adults | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
really. Any clearer after watching the debate, Moghul? I want more | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
information on what he means when he talks about special negotiations if | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
we stay in, I want to know what they are going to be specifically and how | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
they affect us going forward. At this point I am at a position where | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
I feel like staying in seems like a better option because we have spent | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
decades building this relationship in the EU and abandonment seems more | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
scary than to stay in. I really want more information on the special | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
agreements. Jo, have you decided where the your cross will go? I am | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
leaning to staying, I need to hear a stronger argument for leaving. | :49:53. | :49:54. | |
That's what we are waiting for. Fiona? My view is David Cameron | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
needs to pack his bags and leave Number 10 and let's have an honest | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
debate with facts and not the rubbish that he is spouting at the | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
moment. Guys, thank you very much. It's probably a couple of stiff | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
drinks that David Cameron needed last night! | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
This coming Monday we're hosting a big audience debate just | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
over a fortnight before the EU referendum. | :50:19. | :50:20. | |
Victoria will be live in Manchester with an audience of 150 voters | :50:21. | :50:22. | |
She'll be asking whether Britain will be better off in or out | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
of the European Union when it comes to jobs, the economy, immigration, | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
That's live on Monday from 9.00am on BBC Two, the BBC | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
Sentencing continues in the case of Richard Huckle - | :50:37. | :50:46. | |
one of Britain's worst paedophiles - who's admitted raping | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
and sexually abusing Malaysian children while working | :50:50. | :50:51. | |
who represents abuse victims in south-east Asia. | :50:52. | :50:59. | |
A seven-year-old boy who was left on a mountain road in Japan | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
as a punishment by his parents has been found unharmed six days later. | :51:03. | :51:11. | |
Yamato Tanooka was discovered in an army training base about four | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
kilometres from where his parents had left him. | :51:15. | :51:16. | |
His parents initially claimed he had got lost, but eventually | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
admitted briefly abandoning him for being naughty. | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
His father has apologised, saying, "We went too far." | :51:23. | :51:36. | |
TRANSLATION: My excessive behaviour caused my son such pain | :51:37. | :51:38. | |
and inconvenienced so many people, including the people at his school. | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
To the people that helped search for him, for that I am deeply sorry. | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
The first thing, the very first thing, I said to my son is, | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
"I am so sorry for having caused you so much pain. | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
And I admit what we did was excessive, and I had no idea it | :51:51. | :52:06. | |
I deeply regret my excessive behaviour, but I did | :52:07. | :52:15. | |
In a moment, we'll speak to a survival-skills specialist, | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
but first let's get the latest from our correspondent Mariko Oi. | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
This is an extraordinary story. First, how is the -- somehow the | :52:23. | :52:34. | |
young lad? Amazingly, he is apparently in good health. The | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
doctor who has been looking at him has actually said that he had minor | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
injuries, but other than the fact that he was slightly dehydrated and | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
very hungry, mind you, because he hadn't eaten all week, he was | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
actually very well. So quite an extraordinary situation, as you say. | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
How did they eventually find him and I imagine there was massive search | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
parties out trying to discover him? Indeed. There were more than 200 | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
police officers, firefighters, civilians and Japanese Army involved | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
looking for him. In the end he had actually found a shelter in a | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
military training base and when some soldiers went there for training | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
they found him there and he has managed to get some access to water | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
and he actually slept between two mattresses which were left there. He | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
has done very, very well. Incredible boy. Let's talk a little bit about | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
the parents. We have all heard of go and stand on the naughty step, but | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
it's another thing surely to abandon your seven-year-old in woods with | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
bears and that sort of thing. Two thoughts really. What has been the | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
public reaction and is there any sense that social services or the | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
police or anything like that are going to get involved? Are there | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
charges or anything that the parents may now face? Well, I guess there is | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
a possibility that the police would take action against the parents. So | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
far we haven't heard anything from the authorities. People have | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
suggested that this is child abuse and therefore something should be | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
done to the parents, especially online. The majority of people agree | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
that this measure was a step too far and the father did something wrong. | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
There was a lot of criticism against him. But at the same time, | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
especially after hearing his very emotional press conference that he | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
held today, some people said maybe he thought he was doing the right | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
thing, maybe he was genuinely concerned and even though he | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
admitted that it was a step too far it was just - it happened all in a | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
moment and it happened to be very tragic situation which happily | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
ended, which was a surprise. What an extraordinary story. Thank you so | :54:51. | :54:52. | |
much. Ross Findlay is the founder | :54:53. | :54:53. | |
of Niseko Adventure Centre in Hokkaido, which trains kids | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
in survival skills in the area. I am amazed at this young lad. I | :54:57. | :55:05. | |
mean, six days on his own. How difficult, are you surprised that a | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
young lad like that could survive? What an amazing kid. To be able to | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
survive six days and six nights. We had snow in a few days over there in | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
the mountains here so it was very cold, as well. He he has done very | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
well. Do you have any sense or do we know how he managed to do this and | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
what should he have done? If you are in that situation, a young kid, what | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
are they supposed to do? What else could you do? He found shelter, he | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
found water and something to keep himself warm. He has done fantastic, | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
hasn't he? You train kids in survival skills, what lessons do you | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
try and give them and what sort of knowledge do you try and pass on to | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
them? Well, we couldn't do much more than that, find shelter and water, | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
the main things and keep warm, especially in the cold woods there. | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
Where he walked was very thick undergrowth and people searching for | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
him, the undergrowth that thick thick if he had been lying down they | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
would have had to tread on him. He was lucky he found shelter by | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
himself. And six days out in the woods on his own, and snow. Let's be | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
blunt, his life could have been at risk. Definitely. He hadn't eaten | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
for six days. The energy would be going right down. The cold and that | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
would be taking more an effect without the energy. Again he has | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
done very well. I am not planning on getting lost in any woods any time | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
soon, but should it happen, what do you eat? You have to have a bit of | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
knowledge. This time of year it's mainly sprouts. Sprouts! Sprouts as | :56:53. | :57:01. | |
in, not brussel sprouts. I am not fond of them! This time of year a | :57:02. | :57:09. | |
lot of people go to the forest to find sprouts, natural wild, what do | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
you call them, vegetables and things. You mainly cook them or fry | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
them. I am guessing water absolutely critical? Yeah, this time of year | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
it's very hard with food, I think. Later in the year when you get | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
berries and things it's easier. Ross, thank you very | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
much indeed for that: Now the latest weather with John. | :57:34. | :57:43. | |
It's delightful in some parts of the country, notably western areas. | :57:44. | :57:51. | |
Beautiful shot from Pembrokeshire, in contrast to the gloomy picture | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
sent in by one of our weather watchers in Essex. You can see the | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
reason why. All this cloud again across the east | :58:01. | :58:03. | |
of of the country. Beautiful clear skies and sunshine out west. Not a | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
lot will change today. The cloud edging further westwards but it's a | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
slow process. Dampness in that cloud too. Further west it stays | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
delightful with blue skies and sunshine through the afternoon. | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
I mentioned showers, heaviest across the north of Scotland this | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
afternoon. One or two thundery bursts but further south and west we | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
hold on to the brightness. Northern Ireland, a fantastic week and | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
another fantastic day with temperatures around 20. West Wales | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
and the west of England enjoying more sunshine. The cloud gradually | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
creeping across with the odd spot. That's going to affect temperatures | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
again, disappointingly cool, in contrast to potentially 20 along the | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
Welsh coast. Into the evening time the cloud continues to ease | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
westwards, giving the odd shower but most places will stay dry. Murky and | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
humid there and misty along eastern coastal areas. Last night we reached | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
close to zero in one or two places, muggy tonight. That sets the scene | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
for a warm weekend. We will all see some sunshine. There will be | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
scattered heavy downpours. One or two sharp showers tracking west | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
across the heart of England. The afternoon one or two lively | :59:25. | :59:31. | |
downpours, possibly thunder storms in the mix. At long last some | :59:32. | :59:37. | |
sunshine across eastern counties of England. By Sunday most places will | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
be enjoying sunshine. Still a few showers across south-west of England | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
and south-west Wales, maybe Northern Ireland. Most of us warm in the | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
sunshine. Cooler again along the North Sea coasts with the breeze | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
back in off the sea. Further ahead, it's all about warmth next week. | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
Feeling muggy and temperatures potentially up to high 20s. But | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
thunder storms will be developing, and spreading up from the | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
south-west. And continental Europe seeing further unwanted rain. | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
Hello, welcome to the programme if you've just joined us. | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
We have been getting reaction to David Cameron's impassioned defence | :00:14. | :00:25. | |
of Britain remaining in the EU in last night's TV debate. He was | :00:26. | :00:34. | |
accused of scaremongering, as it helped you make up your mind? | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
It has been bordering on the ridiculous, world War three is about | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
to start, there will be marauding hordes of Turkish people coming in. | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
That is why I am undecided, I have not had any concrete arguments from | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
either side of the debate. I am glad the audience picked it up and went | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
for it. We will get more reaction and hear | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
from the Leave campaign. What really happened | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
at Deepcut barracks in Surrey? This morning a coroner | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
will give his verdict in the case of 18-year-old Cheryl James, | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
who was found dead with a gunshot The mother of a second teenage | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
soldier who died there tells us she's certain her son's | :01:09. | :01:15. | |
death was not suicide. The new inquest can make people come | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
into court, answer questions, and maybe we will get near the truth | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
of what happened to our children. All we have asked for from | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
the beginning is the truth. We just want to know the truth | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
and give these kids justice. And, the West London football team | :01:36. | :01:49. | |
helping the radicalise kid in the Brussels suburb known as Europe was | :01:50. | :01:50. | |
Mike jihadi haven. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
with a summary of today's news. David Cameron has said the UK can | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
control immigration even if it The Prime Minister was speaking | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
at his first major TV event of the referendum campaign, | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
during which he was accused The PM claimed it would be madness | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
to try to manage the levels of migration after leaving | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
the single market. People have come to our country to | :02:20. | :02:30. | |
work, but the way to meet that challenge must not be to leave the | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
single market, harm our economy, hurt jobs. | :02:34. | :02:35. | |
But Vote Leave campaigners said they have the Prime Minister ruffled. | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
All of that stuff about, if we leave, that induces the likelihood | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
of war, the audience laughed at that. That will be most telling bit, | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
they were fed up of the scaremongering and there were | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
accusations from the audience of scaremongering. | :02:56. | :02:56. | |
And coming up later on BBC Newsroom Live on the BBC | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
News Channel, the Ukip migration and financial-affairs spokesperson | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
and MEP Steven Wolfe, who wants Britain to leave the EU, | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
will be answering your questions at 12:30pm. | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
You can get in touch via Twitter using the hashtag #BBCAskThis, | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
A group of MPs has warned that the public will question | :03:09. | :03:16. | |
the point of remaining in the European Union | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
if the Government can't deport criminals from other EU countries. | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
The Home Affairs Committee said Poland, Ireland and Romania | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
The Home Office said three times more European criminals | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
were being removed compared to five years ago. | :03:32. | :03:41. | |
Three bodies have been recovered and 302 people have been rescued so far | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
from a sinking boat carrying what they say is a significant number of | :03:48. | :03:49. | |
migrants. It's not yet known how many people | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
the boat is carrying, The verdict on a new inquest | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
into the death of a soldier found shot at Deepcut barracks in Surrey | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
will be delivered today. Private Cheryl James was one | :04:04. | :04:05. | |
of four young recruits who died at the barracks | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
between 1995 and 2002. The inquest, which is the second | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
into her death, began in February and has heard from more | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
than 100 witnesses. A seven-year-old boy who was left | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
on a mountain road in Japan as a punishment by his parents has | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
been found unharmed Yamato Tanooka was discovered | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
in an army training base about four kilometres | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
from where his parents had left him. He was cold and hungry | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
but otherwise in good health. There have been calls | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
for his parents to be prosecuted for leaving him in an area | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
which has many wild bears. His father said he had | :04:37. | :04:38. | |
apologised to Yamato. That's a summary of | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
the latest BBC News. One tough young boy. Some of the | :04:44. | :04:57. | |
e-mails and text you have been sending in after last night's with | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
David Cameron. Kerry said, David Cameron has convinced me which way | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
to vote. He and George Osborne are the best assets in the Brexit | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
campaign have, I am voting out. John says, it is whether we want | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
ourselves and our children and future generations to be dictated to | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
by unelected career politicians in the EU. On the pro Remain side, Neil | :05:23. | :05:32. | |
says, if Brexit goes ahead, the UK will have to replicate functions | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
currently carried out by the EU. We will lose economies of scale. | :05:36. | :05:37. | |
Do get in touch with us throughout the morning. | :05:38. | :05:39. | |
And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :05:40. | :05:47. | |
Hugh Ferris is back with more sport now. | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
Now, Roy Hodgson's picked his players for Euro 2016. | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
Where to play them is the next question. | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
A few didn't necessarily show great form in the formation the manager | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
used in their unconvincing 1-0 win over Portugal, | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
which at least means they're heading to France | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
But Bruno Alves couldn't really argue with this. | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
The defender sent off in the first half at Wembley. | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
And it was a defender who eventually made them pay. | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
Chris Smalling heading in Raheem Sterling's cross late | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
on after what was frankly a disappointing performance, | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
and one that perhaps helps Roy Hodgson to manage expectations. | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
We will go to France reasonably confident | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
And also knowing full well that we are not | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
I don't know how many teams are the finished article. | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
That is also quite a good thing, because had we won the three games | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
4-0, all people would say is, "You have got to win it now." | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
With a young team, they won't put too much pressure on them. | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
So, England head to France on Monday having completed | :07:02. | :07:03. | |
Northern Ireland and Wales still have a game to go. | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
Northern Ireland play their final friendly against Slovakia | :07:08. | :07:08. | |
on Saturday and Wales' last match before the Euros | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Heather Knight has been appointed as new captain of the England | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
women's cricket team following the retirement | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
Knight has been the vice captain for nearly two years and will lead | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
a much-changed side after senior player Lydia Greenway also retired | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
and wicketkeeper Sarah Taylor decided to take an indefinite | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
Anya Shrubsole is the new vice captain. | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
Andy Murray will attempt to reach his first French Open final, | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
but he'll have to beat the reigning champion to do it. | :07:39. | :07:40. | |
The British number one faces Stan Wawrinka in the semi-finals | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
He has played great tennis here for the last couple of years especially. | :07:44. | :07:58. | |
We have not played each other much for the last few years. That was in | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
doors at the O2 the last time we played. A lot has changed since | :08:07. | :08:07. | |
then. And finally to a safety warning | :08:08. | :08:09. | |
from the fairways of the PGA Tour. Maybe wear a hard hat rather | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
than a sun hat. This is Phil Mickelson's tee | :08:13. | :08:14. | |
shot on the par-five 15th during the first | :08:15. | :08:16. | |
round of the Memorial And that is the head | :08:17. | :08:18. | |
of a tournament marshal. Mickelson was understandably | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
apologetic and handed over a signed Mickelson apparently said | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
if the marshal's head was a touch softer, his shot would have | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
ended up on the fairway. But he did at least go | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
on to make a birdie. I am concerned that health and save | :08:33. | :08:47. | |
the officials will be buoyed to make sure people are not heading the ball | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
is from the undergrowth. If it helps the golfers, they will | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
be happy for them to head it onto the fairway! | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
This morning, a coroner will deliver his findings | :08:57. | :08:57. | |
in the case of Private Cheryl James, a young Army recruit | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
who died at the infamous Deepcut barracks in 1995. | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
She was one of four young people to take their life on the barracks, | :09:06. | :09:15. | |
but their families have always maintained that there | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
were unanswered questions about their deaths and questions | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
In 1995, Private Cheryl Jones was found dead in woodland near Deepcut | :09:21. | :09:33. | |
She was 18 and died of a bullet to the head. | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
Cheryl was very bright, from an early age. | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
She was always bubbly, centre of attention. | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
She was impossible to tell off from a very early age, until she | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
Between 1995 and 2002, three other soldiers also died | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
The deaths came amid claims of abuse and bullying. | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
And another 17-year-old, James Collinson. | :10:10. | :10:21. | |
The Army treated all the deaths as suicide, but the families | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
The current inquest is looking into Private James' death. | :10:25. | :10:37. | |
The previous one, in 1995, returned an open verdict. | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
That is when the cause of death could not be established. | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
From 2002 and 2003, a police investigation into the four | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
deaths said there was no evidence of a crime. | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
However, a later review of the investigation criticised | :10:54. | :10:55. | |
Surrey Police for not fully investigating the death. | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Three years later, a review by a senior lawyer | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
concluded all four deaths were probably self-inflicted. | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
Then two years ago, the High Court ruled the first investigation | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
into Private James' death was flawed. | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
A second inquest was ordered and that is the verdict | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
The coroner looking into the death has heard | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
It will focus on the state of her mental health at the time. | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
And he will also look at a claim of attempted rape. | :11:27. | :11:41. | |
Earlier, I spoke to the mother of Private Geoff Gray, | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
who is one of the four recruits to die at the base over seven years. | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
Diane Gray told me that she has never believed her son | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
Every parent knows their child. I could not comprehend it. It was | :11:54. | :12:14. | |
something that... What? Total shock to begin with. You are trying to | :12:15. | :12:22. | |
tell me he has done it himself? I was told three shots were heard at | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
1:15am and he was found dead. I said, did he missed twice? Out of | :12:29. | :12:39. | |
the blue. What was the initial response from the military? | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
They said, try and keep it quiet, he has committed suicide, you don't | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
want to put shame on the family. Did you ever think this could be | :12:51. | :13:06. | |
correct or not, this is not believable? From the beginning I | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
thought it is not believable, but over time I began to think, maybe it | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
is right, maybe it is a suicide. But the more I found things out, the | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
more bizarre it became, and the more proof I got that it was not a | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
suicide. We have the inquest into Cheryl James today. Previously an | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
open verdict. You hope that today's inquest could pave the way possibly | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
to an inquest into your son's death? We will put an application into the | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
Attorney General and get our original inquest overturned, and | :13:48. | :13:49. | |
then a new inquest opened. One of the extraordinary things | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
is you have kept On a personal level, | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
have you ever doubted, have you ever thought, | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
"I have to move on with my life"? For you personally, | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
what has this been like? It has put a strain | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
on the family health-wise. Some days you want to give up, | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
some days you think, my son was worth fighting for, | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
and I will fight to the end Any parent that loses a child | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
and they don't do what happened, surely that is all we ask for, | :14:19. | :14:26. | |
the truth, you want to know what happened so that you can | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
move on with your life. A review of what went | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
on at Deepcut concluded that there was harassment, | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
discrimination and oppressive behaviour, but that the deaths | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
were probably self-inflicted. Following a long fight | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
by the families and their legal teams, Cheryl's case was the first | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
to be granted a fresh inquest. But whether more will follow | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
remains to be seen. Clive, tell us how we got here | :14:54. | :15:12. | |
legally in terms of this inquest, how did we get here? Well, it was, | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
as you heard there, this has been a long, 21-year fight by the parents | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
of Cheryl James to get the evidence surrounding the circumstances of her | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
death heard in a public forum, properly scrutinised in a public | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
forum and today we will hear the conclusions of the coroner as to | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
what he has made, having had all that publicly aired and publicly | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
scrutinised. You heard that there have been a number of police | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
investigations, there's been a review by a senior QC. But this has | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
been a long inquest, it's been going since February. It's heard from well | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
over 100 witnesses. Today we will get the conclusions and the critical | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
question is whether Cheryl James took her own life, whether it was a | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
suicide, or whether, as has been left open to the coroner by the | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
lawyer acting on behalf of Cheryl James' family, whether she was shot | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
by a third party. At the heart of this is the forensic evidence | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
because the majority of forensic experts have concluded that this was | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
a close contact, self-inflicted shot, but the for instance expert on | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
behalf of the family has said no, that this was a shot from a third | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
party and it was a shot from distance. Now the difficulty here is | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
that because the original investigation by Surrey Police | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
concluded this was a suicide, none of the forensic evidence, the | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
critical forensic evidence, was retained. So the forensic experts | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
have been working from photographs and key to that are what is said to | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
be soot stains on the hand and face of Cheryl James. The expert for the | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
family says no, they weren't soot stains, they were mud or another | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
substance, that's why he says it's open to find this was a shot from | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
distance by a third party. We will hear about that. We will also hear | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
much of the detail surrounding the personal circumstances of Cheryl | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
James, the pressures she was under. We have heard at this inquest that | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
she was at a base that was described as a sexualised, as morally haywire. | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
We know she had to choose between two boyfriends, one of whom came and | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
visited her on the day of her death when she was on guard duty, had a | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
45-minute conversation with her and then left. There was also an | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
allegation she had been raped the night before, that was not | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
corroborated. But we will have some indication from the coroner as to | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
his findings as to the culture at the base, not a broad culture, it | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
wasn't a public inquiry, but the culture at the base as it affected | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
Cheryl James. We are expecting a long narrative verdict from the | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
coroner, but that should begin around 11.00 am. We will keep you | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
posted obviously as to what he says and what the conclusions are. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
Briefly, what are the potential implications here of the outcome | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
legally of this inquest? Well, there is no question that these deaths | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
represent a very dark chapter in the history of the British Army. But the | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
other three families are pushing for inquests, the parents of Sean | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
Benetton, one of the soldiers that died, they are dead but his case is | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
being pursued by relatives. They'll be watching this very closely. Much | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
will depend on that critical finding of whether this was a suicide, a | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
self-inflicted death or whether this was a soldier who was shot by | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
someone else at the base, that will be a very important finding. The | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
families are pushing, we know that Sean Benton's family will hear later | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
this year perhaps as to whether they'll get an inquest. Thank you | :19:09. | :19:09. | |
very much. Here in the studio to discuss | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
what the findings of today's inquest will mean are Emma Sangster | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
from Forces Watch and former Army Captain turned | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
lawyer Patrick Hennessy. Emma, the thing a lot of people will | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
wonder, is this all historic, is it in the past or is it still a problem | :19:25. | :19:32. | |
today in the Army? Well, I think that was a very particularly bad | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
chapter of abuse at training establishments. There was the four | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
deaths at Deepcut but there was also a number of deaths at Catterick | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
barracks as well and there was campaigning around that at the time. | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
But there was no full public inquiry about what really amounts to a | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
culture of abuse. If that was a bad time, is there any evidence to | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
suggest that doesn't happen any more or is there concern that maybe | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
things have not changed so much? I think things have changed to a | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
degree. We haven't seen young people committing suicide in that way, | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
although there are still suicides in the Army. There is still a big | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
problem with bullying, discrimination, harassment in the | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
armed forces and the figures that the armed forces themselves produce | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
show that, that quite a large percentage of people still | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
experience bullying, particularly if they're junior recruits. Still | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
experience sexual harassment. Patrick, you were a military man, | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
true that there is a culture of bullying? Did you find that and see | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
that? I wouldn't say there was a culture of bullying, it's right to | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
say like any large organisation, especially with large numbers of | :21:03. | :21:04. | |
young people it's difficult to stamp out completely the pressures that | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
exist. Clearly what was going on at Deepcut was horrific. And I | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
certainly don't recognise that from my time. I went under basic training | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
at Sandhurst in 2004, about two years I think after the last of | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
these deaths happened and there was a much greater awareness then, | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
certainly for us, of how you would flag up a problem if you felt you | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
were being bullied, how you could take issues you had outside the | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
direct chain. Obviously what you don't feel you can necessarily do is | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
complain about the person you are reporting up to. I imagine many | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
people think it's the Army guys, and you want people to be pretty tough | :21:41. | :21:49. | |
and we are not going to go around mollycoddling you. It's a bruising | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
environment, isn't there always going to be a degree of tough love, | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
if I can put it that way? The important phrase is tough love, it's | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
got to be love. Bruising is an interesting word, that conjures up | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
an image of physical pressure. I think that's where we understand | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
there's got to be a line. Culturally, not just in the Army, | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
things have changed in the last 20 years. If you look at, I am a huge | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
football fan, if you look at a young footballer joining a big club in the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
80s and 90s, you were made to clean boots and do tasks and feel at the | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
bottom of the ladder. A 17-year-old footballer now is treated like a | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
God. I think the Army recognises there are recruits, raw material, | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
they're a precious resource. Yes, you have to put the right amount of | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
pressure, because you have to prepare young men and women for the | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
pressures they'll find on operations. You can't break them. To | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
do so would be hugely counterproductive. We have matured | :22:48. | :22:56. | |
in that sense. Emma, I suppose the Army obviously a hierarchical | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
organisation, and you have superiors, the pressure to keep | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
quiet and not to complain I imagine is immense? Yes, I think so. This is | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
the problem. You have individuals who often are very young, could be | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
coming from a vulnerable place. Partly because of this they are so | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
young, but they are within a massive institution. From our perspective it | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
doesn't really matter how many safeguards you may put in place to | :23:30. | :23:37. | |
try and limit bullying, there's still a problem of how young people, | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
maybe 16, 17, can cope within that kind of institution with all the | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
pressures that they need to conform to, obey orders, the rigorous | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
training and from our perspective we shouldn't actually be recruiting | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
people at that age into institutions which have such a rigorous demand. | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
Patrick, is there any scope for having some external body which | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
soldiers can complain to or that breach the integrity and unity of | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
the regiment and that thing? I think they do. There is now an armed | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
forces ombudsman who is a civilian and exists outside that structure | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
who complaints can be taken to and bodies which assess, made up of | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
people no longer within the Army, made up of retired officers and | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
soldiers, I think that does exist and I think it's been a step | :24:32. | :24:33. | |
forward. Thank you both very much. Football has long been used as a way | :24:34. | :24:43. | |
to stop kids getting But a team from West London are now | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
using football as a way to prevent Tuff FC's methods of coaching | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
and mentoring have been so successful Barack Obama has | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
invited them to the White House. And this week the team travelled | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
to Molenbeek in Brussels to play football, and talk | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
about ways to counteract She acts as a mentor to a football | :25:01. | :25:01. | |
team called Tuff FC, several of whom have been | :25:02. | :25:17. | |
in contact with extremists. It all started with the curiosity | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
and the fact that they weren't sure where they belonged, | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
and that sense of acceptance wasn't something they found | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
where they were living. We kind of found out about these | :25:25. | :25:26. | |
things, due to a sense of trust that was built between us | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
and the kids. The kids kind of came up to us, | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
some of them, and spoke to us about what was happening, | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
and their curiosities, whether they had been | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
contacted yet or not. Some of them were curious | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
and wanted answers on a taboo subject they could not talk | :25:44. | :25:45. | |
about in schools. But for many, the lure | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
of football has proved stronger When they recruit young people, | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
they make it look like a family, kind of what we're doing | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
as a counterract. You are welcome here, | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
using words like sister, In a sense, it is like saying | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
we are uniting against the West. But at the same time, | :26:03. | :26:10. | |
I don't see it as a gang, I see it as a group of people | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
who have strong extreme ideologies that change the way Islam | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
is being portrayed in the world. And football is a form | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
of radicalisation. If you are Chelsea fan, | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
you will be a die-hard Chelsea fan. You won't look at the person | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
next to being Jewish, or Christian, or Hindu, | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
or Muslim, all you know is they are Chelsea fan | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
and you will be bonding with them. What tends to happen is, | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
when you have a child who is in the throes of going to Syria, | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
what we experience is, when we put football in front | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
of them, or you put their football club in front of them, | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
they have had a hard decision We had a choice, where we gave | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
a choice to one of the kids, on the left-hand side | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
you have the gates of Heathrow Airport taking | :27:03. | :27:05. | |
you to Turkey or Syria, or on the right-hand | :27:06. | :27:07. | |
side, you have the gates of Stamford Bridge and Jose Mourinho | :27:08. | :27:09. | |
holding his hand out, She said, ten seconds, | :27:10. | :27:11. | |
"I want Mourinho." Umra and the team travel | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
to Molenbeek in Brussels, a suburb synonymous with last | :27:19. | :27:20. | |
year's Paris attacks. At least three of the men | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
involved lived here. And, as in west London, | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
while football is a dominant force, TRANSLATION: When I was about 16 | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
years old, I was approached by a person who tried | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
to radicalise me, but at the time, I am a practising Muslim, | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
and I know that this is not something that is allowed | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
by my faith, and it is a complete nonsense to go and kill | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
in the name of Allah. Actually, in everywhere you have | :27:49. | :27:50. | |
extremism, but here I am talking for the sport, | :27:51. | :28:06. | |
our Academy and our club. That is why we keep the youngsters | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
coming to the football stadium or the other sport, | :28:09. | :28:18. | |
and don't let them in the street, because they can deal | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
with the extremism. Here in the club, for the moment, | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
we don't have that problem. For Tuff FC, the trip was about | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
football and sharing experiences. Do you like living | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
here in Molenbeek? Life is not like they described it | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
in the press, actually. It is much nicer | :28:42. | :28:57. | |
than you would think. The team have also been | :28:58. | :28:59. | |
invited by President Obama to the White House, spreading | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
the message further afield. More than 13,000 foreign criminals | :29:08. | :29:27. | |
are awaiting deportation from the UK, we will have the details from | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
the home affairs Select Committee which produced that report. | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
And, the Prime Minister faces tough questioning over immigration in the | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
first EUTV debate. We will hear from a Ukip MEP and why he is voting to | :29:42. | :29:43. | |
leave the EU. David Cameron has said the UK can | :29:44. | :29:59. | |
control immigration even if it The Prime Minister was speaking | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
at his first major TV event of the referendum campaign, | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
during which he was accused The PM claimed it would be madness | :30:07. | :30:08. | |
to try to manage the levels of migration after leaving | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
the single market. A group of MPs has warned | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
that the public will question the point of remaining | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
in the European Union if the Government can't deport | :30:18. | :30:19. | |
criminals from other EU countries. The Home Affairs Committee said | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
Poland, Ireland and Romania The Home Office said three times | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
more European criminals were being removed compared | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
to five years ago. The verdict on a new inquest | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
into the death of a soldier found shot at Deepcut barracks in Surrey | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
will be delivered today. Private Cheryl James was one | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
of four young recruits who died at the barracks | :30:44. | :30:45. | |
between 1995 and 2002. The inquest, which is the second | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
into her death, began in February and has heard from more | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
than 100 witnesses. Greek authorities say three bodies | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
have been recovered and 302 people have been rescued so far | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
from a sinking boat carrying what they say is a "significant" | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
number of migrants. A rescue operation is currently | :31:05. | :31:06. | |
underway in the Mediterranean, It's not yet known where | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
the boat has come from. Join me for BBC | :31:10. | :31:18. | |
Newsroom live at 11am. Here's Hugh Ferris again | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
with the sports headlines. Roy Hodgson's assessment that | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
England aren't the finished article wouldn't have come as any surprise | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
to those who watched them labour to a 1-0 win over Portugal | :31:36. | :31:37. | |
in their final friendly before Chris Smalling with the goal | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
as they head to France on the back Heather Knight has been named | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
as the new captain of the England women's cricket team | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
following the retirement Knight steps up from being the vice | :31:54. | :31:54. | |
captain for the last two years. Andy Murray will attempt to reach | :31:55. | :32:01. | |
his first French Open final, but he'll have to beat the reigning | :32:02. | :32:03. | |
champion to do it. The British number one faces | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
Stan Wawrinka in the semi-finals And, 8.31 metres seems to be | :32:08. | :32:09. | |
a favourite distance It got him gold at London | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
2012 and also a victory in the Diamond League event | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
in Rome last night. It's also his longest | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
jump of the season. A British man is facing multiple | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
life sentences for numerous sex crimes against children in Malaysia, | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
which he boasted Richard Huckle from Ashford in Kent | :32:36. | :32:37. | |
admitted the offences against victims aged between six | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
months and 12 years, It is believed the 30-year-old | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
abused up to 200 children. His sentencing hearing began | :32:49. | :32:57. | |
at the Old Bailey on Wednesday, Let's talk now to Alan Collins, | :32:58. | :32:59. | |
who leads abuse claims for victims overseas and is from Hugh James | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
Solicitors. Shocking as this is, are you | :33:06. | :33:15. | |
surprised by it? Yes. It seemed that this is now one in a | :33:16. | :33:29. | |
line of a series of cases over recent times where it seems that | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
abusers are able to travel from the UK to other countries and abuse, | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
almost, it seems, with impunity, and move from one country to another. It | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
highlights for me this ability to move around and abuse and also the | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
growing problem of the Internet in these cases, the ink used to further | :33:56. | :34:04. | |
the offences, access children, and as an aid to abuse children. It is a | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
very disturbing case. It is one in a line of cerebral, -- several, but it | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
highlights the grotesqueness of the problem. He was a teacher, presented | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
himself as an English-language teacher. If you are a teacher in | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
this country you are checked and vetted. Does any of that happened? | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
It is a problem that needs an international solution. You can have | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
good practice which help to minimise the risk, but if you think about it, | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
and you listen to victims, there is in the developing world a thirst for | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
education, a demand to learn English, and so these characters are | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
able to exploit that. It enables them to exploit the most vulnerable, | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
who are desperate to get an education. Are there no checks when | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
they are there? These people are in demand, because English is the | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
global language, but they have got very young kids, is there no | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
oversight? It needs an international solution, there needs to be high | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
standards throughout the world. It should not be so easy for people to | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
masquerade as teachers or to access children in that way in developing | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
countries or anywhere else. That is a Laguna in the system, and it | :35:27. | :35:34. | |
needs, in my opinion, an international solution, so there is | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
an international standard, so nobody can say, wherever they are, I am a | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
teacher, therefore I can go and teach. There needs to be rigorous | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
checks, no matter which country it is. Let's talk about the other side, | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
the children. What happens to them? What support they give them, can | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
they sue for compensation? For many of them, justice is going to be an | :36:02. | :36:10. | |
elusive. Many will be dependent on charity for ongoing care and | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
support. A lot of good work is done, but it is patchy and it varies from | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
country to country. Many will not have access to any form of justice, | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
whether it is from normal or civil law. Because of their particular | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
cases, some may be able to bring cases in the UK or elsewhere. A lot | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
depends on particular circumstances and who is there on the ground to | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
provide support. Action is possible, but it is hit and miss and it varies | :36:40. | :36:40. | |
enormously. More than 13,000 foreign | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
criminals are awaiting deportation from the UK, | :36:48. | :36:49. | |
including thousands of European citizens, according to a report | :36:50. | :36:51. | |
by a group of influencial MPs. The Home Affairs Select Committee | :36:52. | :36:53. | |
said the figure was the equivalent to a "small town" and would lead | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
people to "question the point" The numbers represent | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
foreign-national offenders currently in the UK, | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
both in detention and living It is a shocking tale. It is, the | :37:04. | :37:22. | |
committee has been banging on about this for a number of years. It has | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
been ongoing under successive governments. The rumour that the | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
Charles Clarke issue, thousands were let out before being considered for | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
deportation, but we have 9800 foreign national offenders in our | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
prisons representing 11% of the prison population are costing the | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
taxpayer 40,000 a year to keep them in prison. Then you have the 5700 | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
who are out of prison in the community, and the Government has | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
not removed them. Is it lack of resources to boot them out, is it a | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
reluctance on the part of other countries to take them? What is the | :37:59. | :38:06. | |
logjam to boot them out? There is a lot of political will, there is a | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
passion to see them out. The Prime Minister said he wanted them out as | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
quickly as possible. The Home Secretary is working hard to make | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
sure it happens. It took her two years with Abu Qatada, I thought she | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
would pilot the plane to get him out. It seems to be a problem with | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
EU countries. We need to bang the table more with Poland and Romania | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
and Lithuania, tell the Commonwealth countries, there are four of them | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
represented in the top ten... We are a big player in the EEG, the | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
Commonwealth, obviously, we have leveraged. Why can we not get | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
countries like Poland and other Commonwealth countries to get these | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
commercials back? It is a question you have to put to the Home | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
Secretary and the Government. I support staying in. The case being | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
made by the Prime Minister is solid, but if those leaders of the EU like | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
Angela Merkel and Donald Tusk want us to stay in, one of the things | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
they can do is to announce that their citizens will return to their | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
countries. It will help us in our campaign, because I want to remain | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
in, and we have to if we are going to deal with removing these people | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
to EU countries. As far as the Commonwealth is concerned, when the | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
Prime Minister needs the Prime Minister of India, Pakistan, | :39:30. | :39:31. | |
Nigeria, that needs to be the first thing on the agenda. They are | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
reluctant to take back their citizens, we need to remind them of | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
their responsibilities. Why should we pay for foreign national | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
offenders who come into our country, commit offences, are sentenced | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
because of serious crimes, murder, rape, burglary, and then stay at our | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
expense? We need to get them out. An African-American movie producer | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
who clashed with the actor Matt Damon over the lack | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
of diversity within the industry is here in London to encourage | :40:01. | :40:02. | |
ethnic minority film-makers. Damon publicly apologised | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
for downplaying the importance of diversity while judging the HBO | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
reality show Project Greenlight, which gives first-time directors | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
the chance to make a movie. The incident took place before | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
the Oscars race row. They were discussing choosing | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
a director for a film where the only I would want to urge people to think | :40:19. | :40:35. | |
about whoever this director is, the way they are going to treat the | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
character of harmony. With her being a prostitute, the only black person | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
being a hooker. On the surface, they look like one thing, but they might | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
end up giving us something we don't want. We were talking about | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
diversity, you do it in the casting of the film, not in the casting of | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
the show. Wow! She's on the panel with | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
the British Film Institute at the Sundance Film Festival | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
London. And she recently produced | :41:07. | :41:07. | |
the award-winning satire Here's a short clip | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
from the trailer. You are listening to Winchester | :41:10. | :41:19. | |
University's only college radio station. The white people. The | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
minimum requirement of black friends needed to not see racist has just | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
been raised to two. Sorry, but your weed man does not count. The white | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
people, please stop touching my hair. Does this look like a petting | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
zoo? Tell me a bit more about what you | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
are doing in London. I am here on behalf of Sundance London and BFI to | :41:50. | :41:58. | |
talk about inclusion. And the usefulness of diversity in film and | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
television. We know the row over the Oscars, but from your perspective, | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
it is not those in front of the camera where there is an issue, it | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
is behind the camera as well? It is so interesting, I love to use the | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
word inclusion a bit more, because diversity sometimes has a | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
connotation of taking something from someone. But inclusiveness means, | :42:23. | :42:32. | |
come on, everybody said share. It is a problem in front of as well as | :42:33. | :42:40. | |
behind the camera. If we are more included, people of colour and | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
women, it makes for a better product and better business. Did you think | :42:44. | :42:51. | |
Hollywood is basically racist? That is a very good question. Since I | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
want to work still, I will say no. I will say that Hollywood is | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
probably... It has been done the same way for a very long time. Now | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
that we are seeing with the way that demographics are changing, we have | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
become more of a global society, more people are included, more | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
people that might not look like you, but might look like me, we want to | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
see our stories as well. I presume the whole Oscar row is a massive | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
deterrent to black people and others getting involved in the industry. | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
That is interesting. I will respectively disagree. Doing the | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
show, one of the main reasons for me to do that was to show that there | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
are quality crewmembers and stories behind as well as in front of the | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
camera that can be told, and there are people that want to participate. | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
We can do the job and we want to, we want to be storytellers, see our | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
stories on screen. I am grateful and very happy to be a member of the | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
Academy. I got in a year ago. We are part of a programme which is going | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
to actually revamp the membership rules, so we can reflect more of | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
what people... What America really looks like. Some of the comments, | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
you know them already, from the likes of formidable actors like | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
Charlotte Rampling, they say the problem is there are not that many | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
great black actors. That is untrue. I believe she apologised for that, | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
and it came out a little insensitively. I love her, so I will | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
give her a pass on that! There" if you brilliant actors of colour. The | :44:46. | :44:53. | |
world is much bigger than black and white. We need to recognise that. A | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
lot of the actors and actresses of colour, as well as directors, and | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
producers, they don't get the opportunity, because Hollywood... I | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
don't want to say it is racist, but there has been a systematic way of | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
doing things that has been exclusionary to people of colour and | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
women. If we had the access in terms of financing and projects, people | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
will see that. Is the issue script writers, that | :45:25. | :45:35. | |
they don't write prominent parts for non-whites? That's interesting. I | :45:36. | :45:43. | |
now work for a company called Lee Daniels Entertainment. I feel that | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
there are writers and creators out there that are looking for people of | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
colour and women to play those leading roles. I don't think, what I | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
feel from what I am hearing from you, there is not one place, like | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
it's their fault the reason why things are the way that they are. | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
It's the fact that there's been from financing to actually gets put in | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
the theatres, to what people who are the gate-keepers say that we want to | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
see. All those things have been working together to only see a | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
homogenised sort of story, God bless, I love white men, but they | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
all look like will you, we want to see something different and hear a | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
different story. What happens if next year the Oscars is again | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
all-white? That's interesting. Secondly, is it changing, is it | :46:37. | :46:38. | |
changing and how fast is it changing? OK. So, I will say I | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
highly, highly doubt that we will have the same problem at the Oscars | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
next year because of the programmes they're putting in place. So I | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
highly doubt that's going to be... Is that because of pressure, frankly | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
and the backlash? What's interesting is all the Oscars so white happened, | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
but the prior year I was able - there was a lot of women, I think | :47:06. | :47:14. | |
322 women and people of colour that became included and I have been | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
around for a very long time, that change comes from inside. When you | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
are rallying against something from the outside, people are really | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
reticent to change, if you can come from within the system and show I am | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
like you, I am not your enemy, I don't want to take something from | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
you, I want to share and be included and be able to show another side of | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
the story. People know now, I think, that once you have inclusion or | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
diversity that your product is better. You can look at the movies | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
now where they say, like a lot of times prior they would say, oh, | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
movies of colour and women don't travel globally. Maybe you will do | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
OK in the States. Is that true? That's a total lie. That's something | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
that distributors and foreign sales people have been perpetrating for a | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
while. But they're not the only reason. You know that's true? That | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
is false, movies absolutely travel. I travel quite a bit, they give us | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
passports now, we can go everywhere! When I travel, you know, they're | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
talking about the Fast and Furious and Kevin Hart and talking about | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
Dear White People. People are hungry to see themselves reflected, not | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
only women and people of colour, but also people that are of the dominant | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
culture, that are like, I didn't know you were like this. So if you | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
are a young black kid and want to get involved in the film industry | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
how do you go about doing that, what is your advice? My advice is don't | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
ask for permission, that you need to do it. Right now with technology it | :48:57. | :49:05. | |
has democratised the entry level. You can make a movie now, sometimes | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
on iPhones they make them. You can make your story. I also feel for | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
people who are in film and people who might not know what to do, | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
because it's a daunting subject of I don't know how to fix this, it's | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
been been done like this forever, you can hire women and people of | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
colour in positions that can also bring in other people. You hire and | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
mentor. If people are like there aren't any women or people of colour | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
that are qualified for this position, you know what you do, you | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
mentor someone. You mentor someone and when they're qualified and | :49:40. | :49:42. | |
capable, then you hire them. You hire and mentor. The last thing for | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
me is you invest. You can invest in what you invest in your time and | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
also what you invest your money in. Those are my three, I say simple, | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
things that you can let anyone do. You are in London. Yes! Obviously, | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
you feel there are lessons that can be applied here in Britain too? I | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
do. I feel that inclusion is a global conversation. From judging | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
here, I love your studio, but it looks very... You know what I am | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
saying! Could do with women and people of colour, just saying! I | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
feel that it's a conversation that we all can have. I don't like | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
talking at people. I like to give people a sense of empowerment. There | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
are things you can do. There is no enemy. We can all hire. We can all | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
mentor and invest. We can support these films and television | :50:37. | :50:38. | |
programmes that are inclusive and show different types of stories. As | :50:39. | :50:46. | |
we all know, stories shape culture. And public consciousness. It really | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
does. Thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you. | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
The Prime Minister has conceded that immigration is an issue of concern | :50:56. | :50:57. | |
in the EU referendum campaign, but says it can be addressed without | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
He was speaking in a question-and-answer session | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
on Sky News last night, and said that it would be madness | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
to try to bring the net-migration figure down by quitting | :51:09. | :51:10. | |
Let's have a listen to what he had to say. | :51:11. | :51:24. | |
I put it to you again that you just cannot control... | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
I mean, it is oxymoronic, some might say lose the "oxy", | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
You cannot control freedom of movement, so why did | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
As I say, there have been many years where movements of people out | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
of Britain into Europe, out of Europe into Britain can have | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
You knew this a year ago when you re-stated this promise. | :51:41. | :51:49. | |
You made the promise again, and it is a promise which cannot be | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
fulfilled while we remain in the European Union. | :51:53. | :51:54. | |
I think it remains the right ambition for Britain. | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
You seriously think it can be fulfilled whilst we stay | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
Because there have been years, and there will be again, | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
where people from Britain choose to go and work overseas... | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
Has this happened in any single year of your Premiership? | :52:08. | :52:09. | |
It happened in the first year I set out the ambition. | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
Can you seriously see it happening at any period whilst you're | :52:13. | :52:14. | |
still Prime Minister in the next four years? | :52:15. | :52:16. | |
What I will say, Faisal, is there are good ways | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
of controlling immigration, and there are bad ways. | :52:21. | :52:22. | |
A good way is doing what I did in my renegotiation. | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
Sometimes this organisation drives me crazy, but do I sit | :52:26. | :52:27. | |
there and think Britain would be better off if we left? | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
Do we think we quit the European Union, we quit | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
the single market, and somehow we will be better off? | :52:36. | :52:37. | |
The European Union does not stop existing if we left. | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
The Channel does not get wider if we leave. | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
A group of people would be sitting round a table making decisions | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
about our biggest market, about the future of our continent, | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
about things which affect us, and we would have our nose sort | :52:57. | :52:58. | |
of pressed to the window trying to find out what | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
Now I will answer your question about Turkey. | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
No, no, let me finish now, I have seen you interrupt | :53:05. | :53:06. | |
I am an English literature student, I know | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
How can you reassure the people who do want to vote out, | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
because I have many friends who want to vote out, | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
that we are safe from extremism, when we are willing to work | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
with a government like Turkey, who want to be part of the EU, | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
when, like I said, they are under heavy accusation? | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
It is like Saudi Arabia, who we sell military arms to. | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
There is no prospect of Turkey joining the EU in decades. | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
At this rate, they will join in the year 3000. | :53:45. | :53:52. | |
Do you regret the personal damage that your scaremongering | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
campaign has done to your reputational legacy? | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
James, with respect, I don't agree. | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
I think there is a very positive case for staying | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
It is about jobs, it is about Britain's strength | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
and place in the world, it is about keeping us safe. | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
I think there are real risks from leaving. | :54:13. | :54:14. | |
I don't accept it is scaremongering, sir. | :54:15. | :54:24. | |
I am genuinely worried about Britain leaving the single market. | :54:25. | :54:41. | |
We are live on Monday from 9.00 am with a debate. | :54:42. | :54:57. | |
Let's hear from someone who is in favour of voting to leave the EU. | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
James Carver is a Ukip MEP for the West Midlands region. | :55:02. | :55:03. | |
David Cameron came through and is still in one piece? The body | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
language showed that he is over a barrel. He didn't want to offer this | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
referendum, he doesn't want to discuss the issue of open door | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
migration. Yes, I can see half those that entered the UK last year were | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
from outside the European Union. The British Government, elected by the | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
British people, can have a vote on the party that decides on | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
immigration policy. What we can't control is the free movement of | :55:33. | :55:40. | |
labour, even though we are outside the Schengen area. I don't blame | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
people wanting to come from this country, the minimum wage is higher | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
than in those countries. Let me put it to you that your campaign is | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
basically a one-trick pony and the one trick is immigration? Not at | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
all. I have been campaigning for 20 years on this issue, certainly not | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
immigration. This is the first time I am discussing immigration properly | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
during this campaign. I have been campaigning since the word go. | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
Immigration is a big issue. It's on the door-steps but there are other | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
issues. It all filters back to immigration and the economy. Can how | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
can any Government properly budget in a budget for how many houses need | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
to be built, pressures on hospitals, pressures on school places, while we | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
have free movement of labour within the European Union? That's what it | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
is about, it's about control of our borders. David Cameron had tough | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
questions to answer on immigration. Your side, Michael Gove tonight is | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
in the hot chair for the Vote Leave campaign. Your side have tough | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
questions to answer on the economy and what is going to happen to our | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
relations economically with the rest of the world. It's a complete leap | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
into the dark. Not at all. It's a leap into the light. What we have | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
been saying from the word go is that we don't have to be members of the | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
European Union to trade with the European Union. And to have access | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
to the single market. In 2014 the United States of America exported | :57:10. | :57:16. | |
206 billion worth of goods in the same year Republic, and they did it | :57:17. | :57:23. | |
without a trade agreement. The world is a far different place to what it | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
was when we joined a so-called common market in 1973. It's about | :57:29. | :57:30. | |
control. It's about control of our borders. It's about control of our | :57:31. | :57:38. | |
laws. It's about the supremacy of parliament and our courts. We have | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
to leave it there. Thank you. Round two is this evening and it's Michael | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
Gove in front of the audience. BBC News live is up next. Thank you for | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
your company today. I think I heard the weatherman say there will be | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
sunshine and warmth this weekend. Can I just say thank God! I am sure | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
you are fed up with the dismal weather. I am certainly fed up with | :58:03. | :58:11. | |
it. Let's us all hope we can bask in our deckchairs. Enjoy your weekend. | :58:12. | :58:20. | |
Have a splendid day. See you again, bye. | :58:21. | :58:24. |