30/06/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


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30/06/2016

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Mr Corbyn for the top job. At a rally last night, Mr Colburn was

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adamant he was staying on, and he was heckled.

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CROWD MEMBER: What about Europe? Where were you when we needed you?

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It wasn't my wish, and it wasn't the wish, I suspect,

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It is mobilising people, free thinking and ideas

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in order to concentrate those into policies that can actually

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improve the lives of everybody in our society.

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That is why we contested the leadership of this party a year ago

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and why I am very proud to be carrying on with that work.

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general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union.

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And Ayesha Hazarika, she's a former Labour spin doctor

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who worked with Ed Miliband during last year's general election.

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She wants to see Mr Corbyn step down.

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James Schneider is from Momentum, the Labour grassroots network group,

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which supports Jeremy Corbyn. And Ann Coffey is one of the two Labour

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MPs who tabled the motion of no-confidence in Jeremy Corbyn.

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According to the Times, Jeremy Corbyn wants to go, but those close

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to him stopping that - do you believe that? No, and I've spoken to

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his office and to Jeremy in the last couple of days, and I think that is

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just a rumour that is being spread around to add to the

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destabilisation. Jeremy is determined to stand in an election,

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he believes he knows that to the hundreds of thousands of people who

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have voted for him. For anyone who says he is not a leader, I would

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suggest that the courage he has shown in this last few weeks really

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does mark him out, that he is an exceptional leader, and he wants to

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be able to lead the Labour Party, to challenge the Tories in these very

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uncertain times. You will know that Ed Miliband, the formerly do, is

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calling for Mr Corbyn to stand down, reluctantly, he says. The issues

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that he stands for will be better served if he goes and Labour can get

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on acting with a proper opposition party. The problem is that Labour

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were not an effective opposition party under Ed Miliband, or indeed

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not that effective in the days of the Gordon Brown government. And

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they are effective now? They did not have the right policies then... They

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are effective now? They would be if the MPs in Parliament got behind

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their leader and allowed him to articulate what the British people

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have not yet heard, an alternative to austerity, building billions of

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council houses, giving kids an opportunity to have an education.

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But you need to be a leader of the Parliamentary party and the members,

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and Mr Corbyn is only the leader of one half of the party, isn't he? In

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the long run, it would be unsustainable, but I would hope that

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the MPs, 172 of them, standing as Labour candidates, not standing with

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a mandate to try to destabilise their leader, who has a more

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individual votes than any of its predecessors, and I think that now

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that there will be an election, I have to say I welcome the fact that

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we can get away from an unDemocratic coup by 172 MPs, we can allow party

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members to decide what they want, and I think Jeremy will win that

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election, and I believe those MPs must now knuckle down and support

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their leader, or ask themselves what their position is. As a former

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Labour spin doctor, Jeremy Corbyn could win this election - should he

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stand down in case he wins it for a second time? I think there is a

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chance, a good chance that Jeremy could still win, although I have to

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say that there is anecdotal evidence that some of that support is

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softening, and a lot of members are upset about the EU referendum

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campaign, expressing a sense of buyers Morse. But he could win, but

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at what cost? What cost would a pyrrhic victory be? Why would it be

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a pyrrhic victory? What would happen is you cannot demand the respect of

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MPs, you have to earn it. But if he gets a second mandate from the

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members... It would be a victory, it would be a victory, but if you

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cannot command the respect of your MPs, that is tough. My worry for the

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future of the Labour Party, because I think there will be an election

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sooner than people think, and at the moment I think we are losing support

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in core working-class areas. I think that we stand the risk of losing up

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to about 100 seats. I think mark is right, the policies that Jeremy

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stands for quite acceptable, I do not think there is an ideological

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divide in the country. Lots of MPs want to fight for what you sing, the

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album and you make, but they want somebody who is really good at

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making those are given scholar who can really connect with the

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working-class people in the north. I do not think Jeremy is the right

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man. -- those arguments. There has been some polling showing that

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Labour is just neck and neck, head of the Tories. We don't really

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believe them now, do we? Apparently we only believe them when we see

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that Labour are losing votes. We have been told for ten months that

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he cannot be elected, that we are going to lose old until you give,

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for backwards in other by-elections, blues hundreds of council seats. --

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lose instead of trashing our party, they should have come up with a

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programme, done it through the open route, do not try to have a coup,

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respect the members, and we will see what they want. The way it has

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happened in the last five days, yes, many members are really upset about

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the EU referendum, I am really upset about the EU referendum, but the

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level of absurd, disappointment and anger over the last five days cannot

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be underestimated. -- the level of upset. What it Jeremy Corbyn beats

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Angela Eagle in this next contest? I have had a lot of e-mails about this

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issue, as you can imagine, and I have had very interesting comments

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from people who say to me, I voted for Jeremy, reluctantly I cannot

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vote for him again... But what if he wins? I don't think he will win. And

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if he does? If he wins, he wins, and then we have to look where we are to

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there, but I don't think he will win win. If he does, he will be even

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stronger, arguably, it would be the second mandate within a year, two

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leadership contests to be the top man of the Labour Party. But as

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Members of Parliament, we have a mandate from the electorate. We have

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the mandate of the 9 million voters who voted for us, and when I have

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been knocking on people's doors, both for Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband

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and Jeremy, for Gordon, they expressed dislike, we lost the

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election. For Ed, it was more hostile and we lost that election to

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a majority government. And on the doorsteps, people say to me, Labour

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voters say to me, if you have Jeremy as your leader at the next election,

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we will not... For you. It is completely irresponsible to put the

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Labour Party in a position of facing electoral oblivion. All right, Mark

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Serwotka, Alec will oblivion if Jeremy Corbyn continues as Labour

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leader. -- electoral oblivion. He can win the next general election.

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Any evidence you will get an approach from Scotland or the North

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of England, which Labour needs to win the general lecture? There have

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been four by-elections and Jeremy, or have been one, three with

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increased majorities. -- all have been won. The Tories are trashing

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the country, Jeremy has an alternative politics... Is he in

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touch with people on the issues of immigration? Is he in touch with

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people on the issues of the defence of our nation? I think absolutely he

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is, and you know why? Because he is prepared to do what most politicians

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do not seem to do, they gave positive case for immigration. But

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he has not acknowledged that Labour voters and ex Labour voters have

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anxieties about the freedom of movement. Yes, there are anxieties,

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and Labour has lost voters to Ukip, he wants to invest in public

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services... But he has not acknowledged that Labour voters are

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anxious about the free movement of people. Labour voters are worried

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about a lack of spending, public services... Net migration is the

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question I'm asking you. Asking about migration, when we have had

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deprivation in communities is one thing. Asking questions about, for

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example, when I had heart surgery, I am waiting for a transplant, by

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Chinese cardiologist with an Indian surgeon, with an Eastern European

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junior doctor we all know they do sterling work. My dad is a doctor,

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my brother is a doctor. Politicians are not making the positive case for

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immigration, Jeremy will make that positive case. Then he's not

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listening to Labour voters, that would seem to be a dereliction of

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duty. The reason I disagree with that... You not listening either?

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What I hear from members, 11 years of pay restraint, kids cannot afford

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houses because they cannot get onto the housing ladder and there are no

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council houses, it is easy to blame immigration when we are starved of

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public spending. If we invest in our communities, public services, a lot

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of that adamant will recede. The problem we have got at the moment, I

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think, is that Jeremy wants to make a positive case, but he has been

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prevented from doing so by the coup. Now that we're going to have an

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election, I welcome that, I think Jeremy will win. When he goes to the

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country is able to set out an anti-austerity, pro-public services,

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pro-investment agenda, do you know what? I think it will be so

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incredibly positive that the Tories will have to worry about the mess

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they have made. Former Labour spin doctor, do you

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buy that? No. The Labour Party was very united in terms of leadership.

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Jeremy went on holiday a couple of weeks before the vote, that is not

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leadership. If Jeremy stays, there will be a general election, we will

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lose about 100 seats, we will have a Tory majority and we will herald a

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large number of Ukip MPs coming in. I don't want to see that happen. I

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think we are fighting for the survival of the Labour Party. I know

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that different people have different views. One thing, to make weeks ago,

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we were praising the work that MPs didn't talking after the death of Jo

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Cox about how important MPs are, and now there views are being dismissed

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as if they are bad, rotten people. They work hard for the labour

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movement. Secondly, I know there are lots of new people coming into the

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party, and that is fine, what I don't want the Labour Party not to

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exist. I don't want a Tory- run state. I am begging everybody, the

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Labour Party cannot be allowed to fall apart. A final point, if Jeremy

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Corbyn wins, can you see the Labour Party splitting? Would you consider

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leaving? PHONE RINGS

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If Jeremy Corbyn wins his election as leader, we will go into the next

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-- would you consider leaving? If Jeremy Corbyn wins the election as

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leader we will go into the next election with him as leader. Thank

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you for joining us. Back to the Conservatives, and

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Michael Gove has announced that he wants to be the next leader of the

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Conservative Party, and also Prime Minister, which was the shock news

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about two hours ago. They used to say a week was a long time in

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politics, now it is about a minute. We are waiting for the official

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announcement from the full ormer Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, who

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had been expecting Michael Gove's support. Boris Johnson is expected

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to announce that he is standing. We were told it would be at about

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quarter to 11. There are two prominent Leave campaigners up

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against each other. Theresa May has put her hat in the ring, having

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campaigned to stay in the EU. Let's speak to Baroness Parsee. -- Warsi.

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How do you react to Theresa May's leadership bid? Yellow might she

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gave a brilliant speech. All the points about her experience, her

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humour, the way she engages with members of Parliament, provision for

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the party. A few days ago, I put out about 13 questions that I said all

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future leadership contenders should answer, and I think she answered

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about 80% of them. The most powerful point she made was that those of us

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in Westminster need to look beyond Westminster and realise this is not

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a game. It is time for politicians to layout very clearly what their

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view is. In terms of the negotiations and no sector end and,

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a very good lunch. What about the news that Michael

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Gove also wants to be the next leader of your party and the next

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Prime Minister? I am quite surprised. I thought he was in

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this... Once David resigned, I thought it was the end of the

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matter. I was quite surprised that he announced his candidature. I am

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also surprised at what he said. He talks about healing and speaking for

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all and bringing the country together, and really, from my

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experience of Michael and his approach towards teachers and the

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legal profession, and certain minorities, that is not the Michael

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I recognise. What about the fact that in his statement is he really

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undermined the character and credibility of his very close Leave

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campaigner, Boris Johnson? Quote, I have come reluctantly to the

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conclusion that Boris Johnson cannot provide the leadership or build the

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team for the task ahead. I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

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For me, I want to the back to what I have been saying. This is about the

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issues, the politics of politics, which is what this EU referendum

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started to become. It is what upset and concerned me about the Leave

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campaign. Politicians make these statements, Victoria. We ratchet up

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the rhetoric about immigration, and then real people feel the

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consequences on the streets. One of the biggest thing that I have asked

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leadership contenders to do is to run positive campaigns, to set out a

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vision for the party and the country, and to pledge that, going

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forward, they will not run the type of divisive, xenophobic campaign is

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that we saw the party sadly run during the May oral election and

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during the EU referendum. We have seen increased hate crime on the

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streets which you and the media have been reporting consistently since

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the Brexit result. Let's bring in Michael fabricant, who voted to

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leave and is backing... Did you know he was going to throw his hat in the

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ring? I did not know he was going to. I knew was a possibility. I and

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many others were persuading him hard to do just that. Why? I think his

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purpose and his logical mind, clarity of thought, are precisely

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what we need in a Prime Minister, particularly in this difficult

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period where we negotiate our Brexit. Let me bring in Conservative

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MP Damian Green. You are supporting Theresa May - why? I think she is

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the best person for the job. She has shown in office that she is tough

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and can take decisions, can implement difficult negotiations.

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And the vision she has set out, which is of a conservatism that

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helps people who are not privilege, if you like, at the bottom of the

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economic heap. I have always believed in that. Do you think she

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was vague on net migration when she was asked about free movement of

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people? No, because immigration is clearly a huge issue, and it is

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difficult to bring it down while at the same time making sure that we

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get the people we want in this country who can contribute to our

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economy and society. I think we now have the added element of what kind

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of relationship we will have in terms of movement from other EU

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countries. I can't think of anyone better to do that job than Theresa

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May. She is already a master the details and is well ahead of the

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candidates in that regard. Michael, what about the fact that Michael

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Gove will be accused of some -- by some of stabbing Boris Johnson in

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the back? I don't know who will accuse him of that, apart from

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possibly Boris Johnson. People watching the programme as we broke

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the news have done that. At the end of the day, I supported Boris

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Johnson originally, but only because I thought it was important that he

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have a steady rock behind him in the shape of Michael Gove. Quite

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clearly, Michael Gove has been unable to have confidence in Boris's

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ability to form an effective team. I always wanted Michael to stand on

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his own anyway. He has a steeliness of purpose and clarity of mind,

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which we really need in the next two three years. Showmanship alone is

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not going to be enough. I welcome this move. Even though he has always

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said he had absolutely no ambitions for the top job, do you trust a man

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that changes his mind at the last minute? I don't want to draw

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comparisons because it might not work well for Michael Gove, but I

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remember Margaret Thatcher said more or less the same thing. Many people

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would say that she was an amazing Prime Minister. Thank you very much,

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all of you. It is one week since that historic Brexit vote. So much

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has happened since then. How do voters feel one week on? Kate

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Fanning is in Manchester. In the studio, Bupinder and Fahad. They

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voted to leave. 'S in Salford, John Murphy regrets voting Remain and

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thinks that Leave is the best outcome. You are a retired

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businessman. Why do you think we should have voted leave? I voted

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because of my wallet, my heart said that I should Vote Leave. I was a

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subject of project fear, to be honest. But I regret it now. Leaving

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is the best we can do. You don't need to regret it because it was

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Leave in the end, so it is fine for you? Yes, fine. Very happy.

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Bupinder, you are in your 30s. You're from East London. Are you

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still dancing on an hour because of the result? Not dancing. Tell me

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why. I think it is people power, autonomy, a bit of freedom. Cameron

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went to Europe, the Europeans didn't take him seriously, and now they

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have to take everybody seriously. You don't look that happy, if you

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don't mind me saying, in the fact that you one. -- that you won. I am

:22:34.:22:43.

a quiet optimist. That is better than being jubilant. Everything has

:22:44.:22:51.

started to go to plan, the markets have stabilised. If you look at

:22:52.:22:56.

Jaguar Land Rover and the success of that, the foreign markets, the

:22:57.:23:00.

Commonwealth. I am quietly optimistic. Katie, Bupinder is

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quietly optimistic, what about you? I am ecstatic as I have we -- I

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think we have a great future with more control over trade and borders.

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More important league, we have our freedom and democracy and

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sovereignty back. -- most importantly. Fahad, what about you?

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I am happy. Thank you for your company. We are back tomorrow.

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MUSIC: Jupiter, from The Planets, by Gustav Holst

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MUSIC: West Side Story, by Leonard Bernstein

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MUSIC: Romeo And Juliet, by Tchaikovsky

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