30/06/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

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Mr Corbyn for the top job. At a rally last night, Mr Colburn was


adamant he was staying on, and he was heckled.


CROWD MEMBER: What about Europe? Where were you when we needed you?


It wasn't my wish, and it wasn't the wish, I suspect,


It is mobilising people, free thinking and ideas


in order to concentrate those into policies that can actually


improve the lives of everybody in our society.


That is why we contested the leadership of this party a year ago


and why I am very proud to be carrying on with that work.


general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union.


And Ayesha Hazarika, she's a former Labour spin doctor


who worked with Ed Miliband during last year's general election.


She wants to see Mr Corbyn step down.


James Schneider is from Momentum, the Labour grassroots network group,


which supports Jeremy Corbyn. And Ann Coffey is one of the two Labour


MPs who tabled the motion of no-confidence in Jeremy Corbyn.


According to the Times, Jeremy Corbyn wants to go, but those close


to him stopping that - do you believe that? No, and I've spoken to


his office and to Jeremy in the last couple of days, and I think that is


just a rumour that is being spread around to add to the


destabilisation. Jeremy is determined to stand in an election,


he believes he knows that to the hundreds of thousands of people who


have voted for him. For anyone who says he is not a leader, I would


suggest that the courage he has shown in this last few weeks really


does mark him out, that he is an exceptional leader, and he wants to


be able to lead the Labour Party, to challenge the Tories in these very


uncertain times. You will know that Ed Miliband, the formerly do, is


calling for Mr Corbyn to stand down, reluctantly, he says. The issues


that he stands for will be better served if he goes and Labour can get


on acting with a proper opposition party. The problem is that Labour


were not an effective opposition party under Ed Miliband, or indeed


not that effective in the days of the Gordon Brown government. And


they are effective now? They did not have the right policies then... They


are effective now? They would be if the MPs in Parliament got behind


their leader and allowed him to articulate what the British people


have not yet heard, an alternative to austerity, building billions of


council houses, giving kids an opportunity to have an education.


But you need to be a leader of the Parliamentary party and the members,


and Mr Corbyn is only the leader of one half of the party, isn't he? In


the long run, it would be unsustainable, but I would hope that


the MPs, 172 of them, standing as Labour candidates, not standing with


a mandate to try to destabilise their leader, who has a more


individual votes than any of its predecessors, and I think that now


that there will be an election, I have to say I welcome the fact that


we can get away from an unDemocratic coup by 172 MPs, we can allow party


members to decide what they want, and I think Jeremy will win that


election, and I believe those MPs must now knuckle down and support


their leader, or ask themselves what their position is. As a former


Labour spin doctor, Jeremy Corbyn could win this election - should he


stand down in case he wins it for a second time? I think there is a


chance, a good chance that Jeremy could still win, although I have to


say that there is anecdotal evidence that some of that support is


softening, and a lot of members are upset about the EU referendum


campaign, expressing a sense of buyers Morse. But he could win, but


at what cost? What cost would a pyrrhic victory be? Why would it be


a pyrrhic victory? What would happen is you cannot demand the respect of


MPs, you have to earn it. But if he gets a second mandate from the


members... It would be a victory, it would be a victory, but if you


cannot command the respect of your MPs, that is tough. My worry for the


future of the Labour Party, because I think there will be an election


sooner than people think, and at the moment I think we are losing support


in core working-class areas. I think that we stand the risk of losing up


to about 100 seats. I think mark is right, the policies that Jeremy


stands for quite acceptable, I do not think there is an ideological


divide in the country. Lots of MPs want to fight for what you sing, the


album and you make, but they want somebody who is really good at


making those are given scholar who can really connect with the


working-class people in the north. I do not think Jeremy is the right


man. -- those arguments. There has been some polling showing that


Labour is just neck and neck, head of the Tories. We don't really


believe them now, do we? Apparently we only believe them when we see


that Labour are losing votes. We have been told for ten months that


he cannot be elected, that we are going to lose old until you give,


for backwards in other by-elections, blues hundreds of council seats. --


lose instead of trashing our party, they should have come up with a


programme, done it through the open route, do not try to have a coup,


respect the members, and we will see what they want. The way it has


happened in the last five days, yes, many members are really upset about


the EU referendum, I am really upset about the EU referendum, but the


level of absurd, disappointment and anger over the last five days cannot


be underestimated. -- the level of upset. What it Jeremy Corbyn beats


Angela Eagle in this next contest? I have had a lot of e-mails about this


issue, as you can imagine, and I have had very interesting comments


from people who say to me, I voted for Jeremy, reluctantly I cannot


vote for him again... But what if he wins? I don't think he will win. And


if he does? If he wins, he wins, and then we have to look where we are to


there, but I don't think he will win win. If he does, he will be even


stronger, arguably, it would be the second mandate within a year, two


leadership contests to be the top man of the Labour Party. But as


Members of Parliament, we have a mandate from the electorate. We have


the mandate of the 9 million voters who voted for us, and when I have


been knocking on people's doors, both for Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband


and Jeremy, for Gordon, they expressed dislike, we lost the


election. For Ed, it was more hostile and we lost that election to


a majority government. And on the doorsteps, people say to me, Labour


voters say to me, if you have Jeremy as your leader at the next election,


we will not... For you. It is completely irresponsible to put the


Labour Party in a position of facing electoral oblivion. All right, Mark


Serwotka, Alec will oblivion if Jeremy Corbyn continues as Labour


leader. -- electoral oblivion. He can win the next general election.


Any evidence you will get an approach from Scotland or the North


of England, which Labour needs to win the general lecture? There have


been four by-elections and Jeremy, or have been one, three with


increased majorities. -- all have been won. The Tories are trashing


the country, Jeremy has an alternative politics... Is he in


touch with people on the issues of immigration? Is he in touch with


people on the issues of the defence of our nation? I think absolutely he


is, and you know why? Because he is prepared to do what most politicians


do not seem to do, they gave positive case for immigration. But


he has not acknowledged that Labour voters and ex Labour voters have


anxieties about the freedom of movement. Yes, there are anxieties,


and Labour has lost voters to Ukip, he wants to invest in public


services... But he has not acknowledged that Labour voters are


anxious about the free movement of people. Labour voters are worried


about a lack of spending, public services... Net migration is the


question I'm asking you. Asking about migration, when we have had


deprivation in communities is one thing. Asking questions about, for


example, when I had heart surgery, I am waiting for a transplant, by


Chinese cardiologist with an Indian surgeon, with an Eastern European


junior doctor we all know they do sterling work. My dad is a doctor,


my brother is a doctor. Politicians are not making the positive case for


immigration, Jeremy will make that positive case. Then he's not


listening to Labour voters, that would seem to be a dereliction of


duty. The reason I disagree with that... You not listening either?


What I hear from members, 11 years of pay restraint, kids cannot afford


houses because they cannot get onto the housing ladder and there are no


council houses, it is easy to blame immigration when we are starved of


public spending. If we invest in our communities, public services, a lot


of that adamant will recede. The problem we have got at the moment, I


think, is that Jeremy wants to make a positive case, but he has been


prevented from doing so by the coup. Now that we're going to have an


election, I welcome that, I think Jeremy will win. When he goes to the


country is able to set out an anti-austerity, pro-public services,


pro-investment agenda, do you know what? I think it will be so


incredibly positive that the Tories will have to worry about the mess


they have made. Former Labour spin doctor, do you


buy that? No. The Labour Party was very united in terms of leadership.


Jeremy went on holiday a couple of weeks before the vote, that is not


leadership. If Jeremy stays, there will be a general election, we will


lose about 100 seats, we will have a Tory majority and we will herald a


large number of Ukip MPs coming in. I don't want to see that happen. I


think we are fighting for the survival of the Labour Party. I know


that different people have different views. One thing, to make weeks ago,


we were praising the work that MPs didn't talking after the death of Jo


Cox about how important MPs are, and now there views are being dismissed


as if they are bad, rotten people. They work hard for the labour


movement. Secondly, I know there are lots of new people coming into the


party, and that is fine, what I don't want the Labour Party not to


exist. I don't want a Tory- run state. I am begging everybody, the


Labour Party cannot be allowed to fall apart. A final point, if Jeremy


Corbyn wins, can you see the Labour Party splitting? Would you consider


leaving? PHONE RINGS


If Jeremy Corbyn wins his election as leader, we will go into the next


-- would you consider leaving? If Jeremy Corbyn wins the election as


leader we will go into the next election with him as leader. Thank


you for joining us. Back to the Conservatives, and


Michael Gove has announced that he wants to be the next leader of the


Conservative Party, and also Prime Minister, which was the shock news


about two hours ago. They used to say a week was a long time in


politics, now it is about a minute. We are waiting for the official


announcement from the full ormer Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, who


had been expecting Michael Gove's support. Boris Johnson is expected


to announce that he is standing. We were told it would be at about


quarter to 11. There are two prominent Leave campaigners up


against each other. Theresa May has put her hat in the ring, having


campaigned to stay in the EU. Let's speak to Baroness Parsee. -- Warsi.


How do you react to Theresa May's leadership bid? Yellow might she


gave a brilliant speech. All the points about her experience, her


humour, the way she engages with members of Parliament, provision for


the party. A few days ago, I put out about 13 questions that I said all


future leadership contenders should answer, and I think she answered


about 80% of them. The most powerful point she made was that those of us


in Westminster need to look beyond Westminster and realise this is not


a game. It is time for politicians to layout very clearly what their


view is. In terms of the negotiations and no sector end and,


a very good lunch. What about the news that Michael


Gove also wants to be the next leader of your party and the next


Prime Minister? I am quite surprised. I thought he was in


this... Once David resigned, I thought it was the end of the


matter. I was quite surprised that he announced his candidature. I am


also surprised at what he said. He talks about healing and speaking for


all and bringing the country together, and really, from my


experience of Michael and his approach towards teachers and the


legal profession, and certain minorities, that is not the Michael


I recognise. What about the fact that in his statement is he really


undermined the character and credibility of his very close Leave


campaigner, Boris Johnson? Quote, I have come reluctantly to the


conclusion that Boris Johnson cannot provide the leadership or build the


team for the task ahead. I don't know how he came to that conclusion.


For me, I want to the back to what I have been saying. This is about the


issues, the politics of politics, which is what this EU referendum


started to become. It is what upset and concerned me about the Leave


campaign. Politicians make these statements, Victoria. We ratchet up


the rhetoric about immigration, and then real people feel the


consequences on the streets. One of the biggest thing that I have asked


leadership contenders to do is to run positive campaigns, to set out a


vision for the party and the country, and to pledge that, going


forward, they will not run the type of divisive, xenophobic campaign is


that we saw the party sadly run during the May oral election and


during the EU referendum. We have seen increased hate crime on the


streets which you and the media have been reporting consistently since


the Brexit result. Let's bring in Michael fabricant, who voted to


leave and is backing... Did you know he was going to throw his hat in the


ring? I did not know he was going to. I knew was a possibility. I and


many others were persuading him hard to do just that. Why? I think his


purpose and his logical mind, clarity of thought, are precisely


what we need in a Prime Minister, particularly in this difficult


period where we negotiate our Brexit. Let me bring in Conservative


MP Damian Green. You are supporting Theresa May - why? I think she is


the best person for the job. She has shown in office that she is tough


and can take decisions, can implement difficult negotiations.


And the vision she has set out, which is of a conservatism that


helps people who are not privilege, if you like, at the bottom of the


economic heap. I have always believed in that. Do you think she


was vague on net migration when she was asked about free movement of


people? No, because immigration is clearly a huge issue, and it is


difficult to bring it down while at the same time making sure that we


get the people we want in this country who can contribute to our


economy and society. I think we now have the added element of what kind


of relationship we will have in terms of movement from other EU


countries. I can't think of anyone better to do that job than Theresa


May. She is already a master the details and is well ahead of the


candidates in that regard. Michael, what about the fact that Michael


Gove will be accused of some -- by some of stabbing Boris Johnson in


the back? I don't know who will accuse him of that, apart from


possibly Boris Johnson. People watching the programme as we broke


the news have done that. At the end of the day, I supported Boris


Johnson originally, but only because I thought it was important that he


have a steady rock behind him in the shape of Michael Gove. Quite


clearly, Michael Gove has been unable to have confidence in Boris's


ability to form an effective team. I always wanted Michael to stand on


his own anyway. He has a steeliness of purpose and clarity of mind,


which we really need in the next two three years. Showmanship alone is


not going to be enough. I welcome this move. Even though he has always


said he had absolutely no ambitions for the top job, do you trust a man


that changes his mind at the last minute? I don't want to draw


comparisons because it might not work well for Michael Gove, but I


remember Margaret Thatcher said more or less the same thing. Many people


would say that she was an amazing Prime Minister. Thank you very much,


all of you. It is one week since that historic Brexit vote. So much


has happened since then. How do voters feel one week on? Kate


Fanning is in Manchester. In the studio, Bupinder and Fahad. They


voted to leave. 'S in Salford, John Murphy regrets voting Remain and


thinks that Leave is the best outcome. You are a retired


businessman. Why do you think we should have voted leave? I voted


because of my wallet, my heart said that I should Vote Leave. I was a


subject of project fear, to be honest. But I regret it now. Leaving


is the best we can do. You don't need to regret it because it was


Leave in the end, so it is fine for you? Yes, fine. Very happy.


Bupinder, you are in your 30s. You're from East London. Are you


still dancing on an hour because of the result? Not dancing. Tell me


why. I think it is people power, autonomy, a bit of freedom. Cameron


went to Europe, the Europeans didn't take him seriously, and now they


have to take everybody seriously. You don't look that happy, if you


don't mind me saying, in the fact that you one. -- that you won. I am


a quiet optimist. That is better than being jubilant. Everything has


started to go to plan, the markets have stabilised. If you look at


Jaguar Land Rover and the success of that, the foreign markets, the


Commonwealth. I am quietly optimistic. Katie, Bupinder is


quietly optimistic, what about you? I am ecstatic as I have we -- I


think we have a great future with more control over trade and borders.


More important league, we have our freedom and democracy and


sovereignty back. -- most importantly. Fahad, what about you?


I am happy. Thank you for your company. We are back tomorrow.


MUSIC: Jupiter, from The Planets, by Gustav Holst


MUSIC: West Side Story, by Leonard Bernstein


MUSIC: Romeo And Juliet, by Tchaikovsky