24/10/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Our top story today: The clear-out at the so-called Jungle camp

Some migrants are saying they'll refuse to leave.

I will not move one inch from here. Why? I just have one hope, to get to

the UK. We'll be live in Calais and bring

you all the details. Also on the programme:

The heartache of losing a baby I am Jack, I am 22 years old, and I

have written a blog on how it has been as a father losing two children

this year. We'll hear Jack's

full story coming up. And a Christian bakery,

found to have broken the law by refusing to bake a cake

with a pro-gay marriage slogan on it, will learn the outcome

of its appeal today. Throughout the programme we'll keep

you up to date with developments in Calais as the clean-up

of the so-called Plus we'll hear from someone who's

campaigning to raise funds for the woman at the centre

of the Ched Evans rape case. Ched Evans was of course found

not guilty at a retrial Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and if you text, you will be charged Our top story today: Hundreds

of French police officers and officials have started clearing

the migrant camp in Calais Several thousand people have been

living there while trying to cross This morning, many have been

queueing to register to be taken to other parts of France

where they can apply for asylum. They started queueing from early

morning, patiently and orderly, the sort of start to the process

that the authorities had hoped for. Already the fleet

of buses has arrived. Hundreds of migrants have decided

they will move elsewhere. But last night there was some

violence, as there often Minor skirmishes broke out as some

migrants started dismantling the camp themselves,

setting fire to toilet cubicles. Over the last two years,

the Jungle has been a magnet for determined migrants coming

from as far away as Afghanistan, This was their last stop in a hope

for a better life on UK soil. For many, those hopes will end

when dozens of buses arrive to transport thousands to regional

shelters across France. Leaflets have been handed

out notifying people This hangar has been prepared

to process names before an estimated 7000 people are moved out

of here in the coming days. Over the weekend, bus-loads

of unaccompanied children arrived in the UK to be reunited

with family members, French authorities say

they don't want to use any Those who try and stay have been

warned to expect police intervention but there is concern that some

will refuse to abandon their hope of making it across the Channel

and there is a risk unofficial camps We can go live to Panay now and join

our correspondent Simon Jones. What is happening now? -- Calais. The

queues are continuing to build up. That building over there is the

hangar where people have come to register and there has been a long

line of people. People waiting for a number of hours, before the process

began. Just down there, short walk away, the Jungle. People have been

steadily streaming down from the Jungle to begin the registration

process. We actually saw the first coaches leaving about 40 minutes

after the gates opened, so there is a real attempt here to get people

through the system quickly. They are going into the hangar and

registering depending on groups, whether they are men, young

children, considered to be vulnerable, and then they are

getting bust out in a matter of half an hour or so. The aim is during the

course of the day to get around 3000 people out. The police are just

heading up here towards the Jungle but I don't know why. That might

suggest tension here. Police are retaining a strong presence here.

1250 police officers are part of the operation. If you are talking about

potentially moving 10,000 migrants from the Jungle, you get an idea why

so many police officers are needed, and why there are so many officials

here as part of the process. Our many saying that they will hold out

and they will not leave? I have spent the past week or so in the

Jungle and some are saying that they do not want to leave the Calais

area. Some are saying they may well attempt to stay in the Jungle even

when the bulldozers arrive but others are telling me they might

decide to sleep rough in Calais or moved to other towns in northern

France, because they don't want to move away from Calais and the

potential to get to the UK, because of course that is the dream for many

of the migrants, to get across the channel to the UK. It is all very

well getting on a coach to the south of France, but that doesn't take

them any closer to their dream. I have been talking to the spokesman

for the Interior Minister. He says he is pretty satisfied with the way

things are going. They have got more police officers over there to give

you an idea of the security and how they are trying to make sure this

passes off peacefully. We have seen some argy-bargy from time to time,

people jostling for position in the queue. But so far it has been calm.

Last night there were more skirmishes and problems going on in

the Jungle. Police are just monitoring the situation and making

sure things are passing off peacefully. I think the authorities

are pretty satisfied with the way it has been going, but they haven't

given a figure yet on how many people have been processed. We are

certainly talking about hundreds and hundreds of people who have

turned up this morning to begin the process of getting on buses and

moving out of Calais. Thank you. We will keep you updated on what is

going on there throughout the programme. Now Julian has the rest

of the news. A British banker has pleaded not

guilty to murdering two Indonesian women in Hong Kong,

on grounds of diminished Prosecutors rejected an attempt

by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty plea on the lesser

charge of manslaughter. The bodies of the Indonesian

women were found at his Rurik Jutting who's 31,

faces life in prison if convicted in what is being described

as Hong Kong's biggest Five people are believed to have

died when a light aircraft reported to be carrying senior EU

border officials crashed shortly The crash happened at

Malta's International Airport as the flight was heading

for the Libyan city of Misrata. It's thought some of

the passengers are from the EU's The Border Agency has not yet

confirmed whether any of its staff were on board.

A man has been arrested after a three-day stand off

with armed police in West London ended when police stormed

Officers were called to a property in Northolt on Friday morning

following reports that a man was in possession of large

Around 80 people living nearby were evacuated from their homes.

Police say a 46 year old man has been arrested on suspicion

of cultivating cannabis and offences under the explosives act.

Senior doctors have listed 40 treatments and procedures

which they say offer little or no benefit to patients.

They include X rays for lower back pain and plaster casts for children

The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges says it wants to cut down

on the number of unnecessary treatments being carried

There's an increasing debate on what's being called

overdiagnosis and overtreatment and whether there's too much

It comes at a time of increasing pressure on NHS finances.

The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges asked members around the UK

for a list of unnecessary remedies and treatments.

The list of those said to bring little or no benefit includes:

Plaster casts for children's small wrist fractures.

The use of saline solution to clean cuts and grazes -

tap water is said to be just as good.

Routine screening for prostate cancer using the so-called PSA test

is said by those consulted not to extend people's lives.

Some of these treatments can be quite invasive, time-consuming.

There are simpler and as safe options, so why wouldn't you?

Because what we've got is a culture of we can do something therefore

We need to stop and reflect and decide what is the best

option for the patient in their individual circumstances.

The Academy is urging patients not to make excessive demands

for medical intervention and doctors to consider which treatments

The aim being to make the best use of doctors' time and NHS resources.

The Prime Minister is holding talks about Brexit this morning

with the three leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

It's the first meeting of the Joint Ministerial Council

Theresa May has pledged to involve the three devolved governments

in regular formal talks on the process of leaving the EU.

The First Ministers of Scotland and Wales have said the devolved

administrations must be treated as equal partners.

An undercover BBC investigation has discovered that Syrian refugee

children have been making clothes for British retailers

The Panorama programme found that children without work permits had

been working on products for Marks Spencer

The brands say they do not tolerate exploitation or child labour.

A judgment is due later today on an appeal by a Belfast bakery

which was found to have unlawfully discriminated against a gay man.

Two years ago, the Christian owners

to make a cake carrying the slogan "support gay marriage."

A judge ruled they had broken discrimination laws.

The case was then taken to the Belfast Court of Appeal.

That is a summary of the latest BBC News. We will have more at 9:30am.

In the next few minutes we will be talking to 22-year-old Jack David

and his partner Leanne, who lost two babies in the course of a year. Jack

has written a blog on the impact it has had on him. Do get in touch with

your thoughts on that and we will be talking to them both after the

sport. But first, the cricket. England have won the first test

against Bangladesh in the last few hours. Yes, and what an exciting and

it was to that game against Bangladesh with just 22 runs in it.

You have got to feel for Bangladesh because they only had to get 33 runs

to record their first ever test win over England but they only managed

to add ten to their overnight score. Ben Stokes celebrating those final

two wickets. Fitting since he was man of the match thanks to those

final two wickets in the second innings and also four late wickets

in the second innings and 84 runs on the bat for him. A vital part of

England's victory. The next test starts on Friday. And in football,

not the return to Chelsea that Jose Mourinho would have wanted.

Humiliated is the word the newspapers have gone for 4-0 was the

score against his former club. Pedro, Hazard, and it is their

heaviest defeat. Humiliation was the main emotion for Manchester United

according to the newspapers and that is because of this exchange. During

that exchange apparently Jose Mourinho were saying that Antonio

Conte had humiliated Manchester United by whipping up the fans when

they scored that fourth goal. A bit of who harboured between Antonio

Conte and Jose Mourinho. -- a bit of fuss. It is his heaviest ever

Premier League defeat and he later apologised to the Manchester United

fans for that performance. Manchester City are top of the

Premier League. They only managed a 1-1 draw against Southampton.

Southampton scored first fact that mistake by stones. City fans booed

them off at half-time but they managed to pull back an equaliser.

City are top of the league but they will have to do better to stay

there. Five games without a win for City. And another old firm derby in

Scotland. It is always a big occasion when Celtic play Rangers.

They met in the league earlier this month, with Celtic coming out on top

5-1 and they came out on top yesterday. Mousa Dembele scored the

only goal to clinch the win for Celtic, meaning they go through to

the final of the Scottish League Cup where they play Aberdeen. A chance

for Brendan Rodgers to get his first piece of silverware in charge of

Celtic. And a landmark win for Lewis Hamilton in the United States Grand

Prix. Yes, the 50th of his career. Remarkable, really. And a vital win

to keep alive his hopes of winning the World Championship and retaining

his title. He beat his team-mate and championship leader Nico Rosberg

into second place. The gap between the two of them is cut to 26 points,

with 75 left for the taking for the rest of the season. Just three races

left. The bad news for Lewis Hamilton fans is that Nico Rosberg

can win the World Championship if he comes second to Lewis Hamilton in

every race left of the season. Lewis Hamilton is really up against it if

he wants to retain his world title. Thank you very much.

"Walking out of that hospital without a little boy to go back

to or take home was the meaning of emptiness I want to let people

know that during the loss of a child, it's not just the woman

The words of 22-year-old Jack Davis who has

had to deal with the loss of two babies within 12 months.

He's written a searing account of how it feels to be a dad dealing

When he posted it on Facebook, he had no idea how well it

It has been shared thousands of times and Jack is receiving

messages from men and women across the country thanking him

Jack and his partner Leanne McGregor are with us now for their first ever

interview and during the interview Jack and Leanne are comfortable

with us showing pictures of Joey and Tommy -

you may find some of them distressing.

Thank you both thech indeed for coming in. Jack, it is a beautifully

written blog. Heartbreaking. Why did you decide to write it? I was at my

room at work within the Army. I didn't know how to get things off my

chest in the sense. I didn't really want to speak to somebody

face-to-face and Leanne mentioned maybe you can write it down. I

wasn't too keen on the idea. I had a go at it and since then it has taken

off. Why do you think you found it

difficult to express yourself? I think because over the past year

everything had happened, I was so focussed on looking after Leanne and

making sure she was all right, I didn't want to show her that I was

weak or maybe as down as she was. That might have affected her more. I

kept everythinged in of myself and bottled it up and this was a good

way of getting it out. So you felt you had to be strong? That's it. You

talk very clearly about what you both went through, the loss first of

all of Joey when Leanne went into labour at 22 weeks. Correct, yeah.

When that happened, and you realised that you were going down this

terrible path, how did you react? I mean, I wasn't really sure at first.

It was such a shock. I had to rush home from work after the phone call

I got from Leanne saying she was in pain and by the time I got there,

there was an ambulance. As a young man 21 years at the time and Leanne

21 years old, it was our first child, we didn't know what was going

on. I had an idea about halfs going to happen, but I wasn't sure how to

react. It was a case of doing what people said, get to the hospital. Do

what the doctors say and go with it, but it was heartbreaking. We knew

the inevitable. With it being our first child, it had such an impact

on us even if we wanted to try again of the In the blog you say, "We just

got told when we were both 21. We were about to say hello and goodbye

to our first child. That's the true meaning of pain. That's the true

meaning of heartbreak." It was, we were so ready to be parents. Even at

a young age once we found out that Leanne was pregnant. We were just,

we suddenly grew upment we matured a lot more. That that we were in an

immature stage, but we matured we're going to be parents and to be hold

you're not going to be parents. I'm not sure how anybody is supposed to

deal with that. To go from being so happy and elated about having your

own child and doing all the things that you're meant to do as a parent

and finding out that's been taken away from you. It is not happening

anymore. I don't know how you're supposed to

react to that, but we did and we kind of just got on with things.

Leanne, you're both going through obviously just a terrible trauma

together, reacting differently, everybody reacts differently to

trauma. Were you aware, did you feel that Jack was bottling things up?

Yeah. Obviously like when I asked him how he was, he would say, "I'm

fine." When I really knew that he wasn't, but he just wouldn't open up

to me at all. And were you able to express yourself? Yeah. Easily, but

that's like a woman's way of dealing with things whereas a man's way is

just being strong. Did it concern you that he wasn't

speaking about it? Yeah. Yeah. Because he's normally an open

person, but seeing him like that, not talking and just isolating

himself, it wasn't nice to watch. Once you open up, it makes you more

vulnerable? I figured once I started opening up and let mying guard down

and showing my emotions, I figured it will allow more things into my

life and more people that I don't know and more pain to come from it,

because I will really start thinking about it and this is what you've

been through. You're hurting more than you think. I didn't want to get

to that stage until I knew Leanne was all right. There is no time

frame on grieving. So I kind of, yeah, I just bottled it up. So

Leanne, when you read the blog, what did you think about how Jack had

been feeling? It opened my eyes because I knew he was hurting, but I

didn't think he was hurting that much and to see it and see how much

we've been through because we know, we both know how much we've been

through, but reading it, it broke my heart, but I'm glad that he wrote

it. You lost Joey which was unimaginable. And then you say in

the blog Jack that you decided that you having gone through that, you

went through the horror of his funeral. You decided you needed to

get normality in your lives and went back to work and didn't want to talk

about it and Leanne you fell pregnant. Sadly Tommy was born

prematurely. When you went through that again, well, no one can really

imagine how you both dealt with it. What happened? Well, Tommy was a

couple of weeks older in terms of growth. So Tommy was 24 weeks. So

when we got told, we didn't even get told that you were going into labour

until she was in labour. After Joey, once we found out that Leanne was

pregnant again, the doctors recommended that we should get

cervix scrans on Leanne and if it is going to cause any damage or

anything like that. Eventually in pregnancies, a lot of women have

something called a stitch on the cervix to stop any complications of

premature births and things like that. We were getting these scans

and everything was fine and it was growing fine. Shrunk again and it

was growing fine and then we went on holiday for a week after finding out

actually you're in a good enough position, it shouldn't affect

anything. We came back from the holiday and Leanne went into pain on

a Friday morning, I think it was, and they said we'll speak to your

consultant because she is the woman that's going to decide if you're

going to get this stitch, this operation, and that was booked in

for the next day. We went home happy knowing we had that appointment, but

that night we had to come back into hospital because Leanne was in pain.

An ambulance was called and we were told she was in labour. It was more

of a shock than anything and everything was coming back from the

first time. It is heartbreaking thinking we're going to have to go

through this again. With him being 24 weeks we knew he had a little bit

hope. With Joey being 22 weeks, there is not much of a survival rate

if any for a baby at that stage. 24 weeks there is minimal chance. So we

had something to hope for. We went from there. You say obviously you

wanted to be strong for Leanne, but you say in the blog as well how

proud you have been of Leanne? Yeah, definitely. Wonder woman. I don't

know how women having to watch the person I love the most going through

it herself, not just pregnancy, but having to go through pregnancy

knowing there is complications. It just beats me. I can't imagine how

she went through it and I understand that she needed me there and I did

everything I could as a man. Sometimes it is words. It is so

nerve-wracking and you don't know what to say or do except be there

and no, she did amazing. I was really proud of her. To go through

it twice as well, her body being pushed to the limits and absolutely

breath taken by it. How have people around you reacted because

obviously, your loved ones will just want to be looking after you,

protecting you, how have people done that? Yeah, of course, I mean,

they've come to us from all angles really. They have offered us support

here, support there, a chat, they are there. And they understand the

support is there not just from my family and friends, but everyone.

We're getting messages from everybody that we don't know and

they are telling us stories and what they have been through and offering

us support and... When people are talking to you both, Leanne you were

sort of able to speak more openly and Jack, you weren't or didn't want

to. Would people sort of feel like they should be talking to you as

well or was the focus more... I think. They focussed more on

Leanne... Is that because you're pushing away? I think so, yeah. You

talk in the blog about a stigma around male grief? When something

like this happens, a tragedy like this, or even just a normal

pregnancy, the main focus is the woman because she has delivered the

baby. She carried the baby for nine months. People forget there is a man

there supporting that woman. There is a man there that's got to go

through this as well. It is not just the mother who lost her child, it is

a father as well. Man up, get over it. It is not like that. Men hurt.

Men have feelings. Men feel everything a woman feels except the

physical side of carrying a baby, but yeah, I think, it got pushed

towards Leanne, but I helped push it along that way because I didn't want

to talk. I didn't want to open up. I didn't really want to face anybody

and I wanted to get on with things and be that man and be that

stereotype and bottle it all up until I realised that I couldn't

anymore. And now people have started coming to me more, but I think the

majority of it was how is Leanne doing? People would message me, "Hi,

how is Leanne?" I would get upset, she's fine, but what about me? I'm

hurting too. One of the things that you talk about is what people

shouldn't say. Yes, definitely. This comes more from Leanne. It opened my

eye to say it. People would say, "You'll be fine, you'll get over it.

Can't you just try again. You think if you get pregnant you think it

will happen again." To me, it didn't affect me as much until I really

seen halfs happening to Leanne once they said these things. It is

heartbreaking, you don't want these questions, you want normalitiment

you don't want people to look at you... You want people to

understand, don't you? Putting the blog out there, it gives people an

understanding of what you've been through. Yeah, I mean, that's it.

The blog for me, it was just something, a way of meet getting it

off my chest without having to face anybody, but at the same time,

people have understood it. From my point of view and I think a lot of

people had a different outlook on what it is like to be a father or

even as a couple to have lost two children. Even one child is bad

enough. But having lost two children. I think there is a

different outlook now the blog is out there. Lots of people are

getting in touch watching you both here this morning, Stewart said,

"Well done, Jack. Important the media understand men face issues and

respect to both of you for finding the strength to talk about it."

Willie on Facebook, "Well done Jack. A very brave thing to do. I was a

soldier when I lost my daughter at the age of 22. I hope the Army gave

you all the support you needed. This is a taboo subject and harder for a

dad given that we're all supposed to be strong." What's been the reaction

with everybody around you in the military? It is general support.

They're doing everything they can from their point of view.

Unfortunately, it is one of those jobs where it is 24/7. It doesn't

stop. But the support that I've got from the military has been

outstanding. The welfare that they have put in place and the come

fashion nat side of things, it has been unbelievable. I had never seen

that side of the military before and I don't think you are meant to do

until you need it. Talking doesn't make you weak, but sometimes people

think it does? Be a soldier and get your boots on and go. The biggest

thing is talking. If you don't talk, you bottle things up. It is a lonely

world as well sometimes because you are away from your family and you

are away from your friends and loved ones, but that's the life you chose,

but no, they are helping amazingly for me and they've offered support

for Leanne and everything. So it is not just me they're looking

afterment they are brilliant. Yeah. Lots of people are asking us to

share a link to the blog and I should say we've tweeted it and put

it on Facebook as well so people can see the blog. In terms of you

supporting each other, you said that sometimes you don't, it is not

necessarily about saying, it is just being there. Leanne, what is the

best thing that you can do for each other? Just make sure each other is

all right even if it is just asking how each other is. At least, one

time, one time a day. Just being there and knowing that at the end of

the day if I need a cuddle, he's there. Simon says, "Well done Jack

and Leanne for talking about this. I can't begin to imagine that level of

pain." Eric says, "Credit to you both." Lucy says, "This young man

speaking on behalf of his parten is beautiful." Thank you for coming in.

Thank you very much. It is making a difference. People hearing you

speak. Thank you. Thank you. Still to come, you've just heard

Jack bravely speaking out about his traumatic experience

of losing two baby boys and his trips to the hospital to

visit Tommy in the neo-natal unit. Later in the programme,

we'll hear from mothers of premature babies who are campaigning

to increase maternity leave Two years ago, a bakery

in Northern Ireland Its Christian owners were found

guilty of discrimination but appealed and will find out this

morning whether they've Julian Worricker is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary Hundreds of French police officers

and officials have started clearing the migrant camp in Calais known as

the Jungle. Several thousand people have been living there while trying

to cross the channel to the UK. This morning they are queueing to

register to be taken to other parts of France where they can apply for

asylum. A British banker has pleaded not

guilty to murdering two Indonesian women in Hong Kong,

on grounds of diminished Prosecutors rejected an attempt

by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty plea on the lesser

charge of manslaughter. The bodies of the Indonesian

women were found at his Rurik Jutting who's 31 faces life

in prison if convicted in what is being described

as Hong Kong's biggest A group of medical leaders have

listed 40 treatments and procedures which they say offer

little or no benefit to patients. The initiative from the Academy

of Medical Royal Colleges is aimed at cutting down the number

of unnecessary treatments. They include X rays for lower back

pain and plaster casts for children The chair of the academy says some

of the procedures are time-consuming.

There are simpler and as safe options, so why wouldn't you? I

think we have a culture of we can do something and therefore we should do

something, and we need to stop and reflect and decide which is the best

option for the patient and their individual circumstances.

The Prime Minister is holding talks about Brexit this morning

with the three leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

It's the first meeting of the Joint Ministerial Council

Theresa May has pledged to involve the three devolved governments

in regular formal talks on the process of leaving the EU.

The First Ministers of Scotland and Wales have said the devolved

administrations must be treated as equal partners.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

Here's this morning's sports headlines now with Katherine Downes.

England have this morning clinched victory in dramatic

fashion in the first Test against Bangladesh.

Man of the match Ben Stokes took the final two wickets in three balls

as England secured the win by 22 runs on the final day's

It was an afternoon to forget for Jose Mourinho as he returned

to Chelsea for the first time since leaving the club last year.

His United team were thrashed 4-0 at Stamford Bridge and stay seventh

Celtic will play Aberdeen in the final of the Scottish League Cup

Moussa Dembele scored a late winner against Rangers to earn

Brendan Rodgers' side their second Old Firm victory of the season.

And a 50th career race win for Lewis Hamilton at the US

Grand Prix has cut Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg's championship

That is all the sport. Back to you. Thank you and see you later.

French officials have begun to clear migrants out of the so-called

About 60 buses have been brought in to transport migrants to other

parts of France where they will be given the opportunity

The Jungle is a migrant camp near the port of Calais and close

to the entrance to the Channel Tunnel.

It houses migrants who are trying to enter the UK.

The number of people who live in the camp varies.

In mid-October, officials conducted what they call

a visual survey of the camp, and they estimated there were around

It's estimated that, of those, 1200 were

One of those children was a 13-year-old Afghan

boy who Lily Allen met on this programme.

The camp's closing in a couple of weeks, what are you going to do?

It just seems that three different intervals in this young boy's life

the English in particular have put you in danger.

We've bombed your country, put you in the hands of the Taliban

and now putting you at risk, risking your life to

I'm sorry for what we've put you through.

He's since been reunited with his dad in Birmingham,

but charities say there are still hundreds of unaccompanied

children in the Jungle, many of which live in squalid conditions.

Even though France and Germany have offered to house

many of the migrants, they still want to come to the UK

I asked a few Syrians that here, and they said it's because they

speak English and they'd rather go to a country where English

It's also because some of them have got friends and relatives

who already live in Britain, so they are still prepared

to try and get there, and to live in this awful place

Many migrants attempt to hide themselves in cargo vehicles

It's why, in September, work began on a 13-foot wall funded

by the UK Government to try and stop migrants from stowing

At the beginning of the year, half the camp was cleared,

and that led to violence between law enforcement, protesters,

This road marks the Jungle's new boundary.

Everything to the south of it is going to be cleared out

The irony is that migrants here are clinging on to makeshift

shelters in a country most don't want to be.

Moving to official migrant camps with heat and electricity means

These temporary shacks show their resolve not to settle here.

So even now, if the Jungle is completely razed, as is planned,

many say something similar will simply pop up somewhere else.

That's because many of the migrants will stay in the area to get

I will sleep on the street if they remove the camp.

I will not move one inch from here.

I have one hope, just to get to the UK, and I don't

Our correspondent Simon Jones is at the registration

Still a long line of people waiting for the registration process. Among

them, Khan from Afghanistan and Sudan from Sudan. What do you make

of what is happening today? Where will you go? I will go any town that

is French. You will stay in France? I want to go to the UK. Cannot stay

here. Can I turn to you? What has life been like in the Jungle? I

don't like anything in the Jungle. What will happen now and where will

you go? I am going to Paris today. Are you happy to leave the Jungle?

No, I am not happy. Because you see all the life in the Jungle. There

are problems in the Jungle. But it is making problems in the UK. Which

you like to go to the UK? Of course. Why not? All the people living in

the Jungle waiting two years, 15 months, 18 months, to go to the UK.

He has been living in the Jungle for 18 months. You want to get across

the Channel to the UK? Why? Yes. Because I like the UK. Everything is

there. I am happy there. That is why I go to the UK. How long do you

think you will have to wait today? I have been waiting one hour in the

queues. They are taking registration. I don't have a number

now. I am still waiting and it might be two or three hours. Lots of

people waiting around here. Let's try and grab a word with the latest

from the charities. Can I ask you a quick question in English? Very

quickly. You live on the BBC. What do you make of what is happening

today? Happening is the first day. People who are going to the south of

France and to stay here. People are happy to see all these coaches and

to go to someone else outside here. That is for today. For the other

days it will be something very difficult. Thank you. We are just

hearing that the process of bringing vulnerable children from the Jungle

just down the road from here over to the UK has been temporarily halted

at the request of the French authorities. It may well be because

today they are trying to get the vulnerable children moved from the

Jungle to shipping containers where they can be held in security and in

safe accommodation well this is happening but at the moment we are

hearing that has temporarily been suspended. 200 children being

brought over but now that has been halted. Thank you.

With us now is the Conservative MP for Dover Charlie Elphicke,

who has long called for the closures of the camps, and Tess Berry-Hart

Thank you both for joining us. Do you think it will lead to fewer

people trying to come to UK from France illegally? I think the

important thing first of all is to make sure this camp is dismantled

and that it goes off effectively and that people are moved into reception

centres elsewhere in France. It is important to bear in mind that this

Christmas thousands of people will be in favour homes with running

water and proper sanitation. That has got to be the right thing to do.

When you see how is being managed, do you think it is being managed in

the correct way? Right now it looks like it is going very smoothly. They

are moving the most vulnerable people into the containers

carefully. People seem to be queueing up and it seems to be

moving ahead in an orderly fashion. We have just heard that bring

children to the UK has been temporarily halted but we are not

clear on why that is. Would you like to see that resumed as quickly as

possible? What are your thoughts? Obviously, yes. The French have

decided to hold it for some reason and we will find out in due course.

It is good that this weekend 50 vulnerable young girls were brought

over. The Dubbs Amendment children were brought into the UK and it is

really important that should continue. Is closing the camp the

right thing to do? Nobody wants to live on a landfill site in terrible

squalor and all of the groups that I know don't want people to exist in

those terrible conditions. What we would have wanted is for that

transition process to have taken place in a phased way. And not

packed into a few days, because thousands of people need to be taken

out by bus. The residents of the cab, many are not aware or don't

understand what is going on. Up to a fewer hours ago, volunteers were

telling me that young people, children in the camps, were not

aware of what they were meant to do and where they were supposed to be

going. If this had been done in a more orderly way... Since the Dubbs

Amendment was passed in May we could have saved a lot of unnecessary

suffering. Does it follow that the closure of this camp will mean that

people will not congregate in Calais? The Jungle is just one camp

and of course there is a big one at Dunkirk. A more orderly camp but

still large. There must be real concern that people will sneak back

to Calais and the whole thing will reform because that is the history

of this. We need to end the Calais migrant back that for good which

means processing asylum claims and helping people who are not

successful back to their home nations. How can that be achieved?

The very reason everybody is congregating in Calais is because

they want to get to the UK. We were hearing from one migrant talking to

Simon saying he does want to stay in France and no doubt some will feel

that way, but it seems the majority are there because they want to come

here. The issue is that basically Calais is the first border they come

through. People can wander through Europe because of the open borders

Schengen system that they have. They come to a hard border in Calais and

congregate. They come here because they are sold tales and streams by

people traffickers and we need to focus on the people traffickers

behind this. Behind the tide of human misery, disrupt their

networks, catch them and jail them. Thank you. We will continue to look

at what is happening in Calais with the closure of the Jungle throughout

the programme. The woman who accused Ched Evans

of rape says she'd thankful The footballer was cleared of rape

at a retrial earlier this month and since then a campaign has been

underway to raise money to help the 24-year-old

woman start a new life. This morning a group of Labour MPs

have written to the attorney-general warning women may be less likely

to report rape to police because of the way the complainant

in the Ched Evans case was questioned about her sex life

during the re-trial. Jean Hatchet is the feminist

campaigner who set up She's chosen to speak to us

anonymously, using the pseudonym Obviously I am only one of a number

of women who wanted to do this and it was largely as a result of

feeling pretty disheartened by the verdict a week last Friday, feeling

that the court was not a safe place for women to go, that their sexual

history would be brought before them in such a graphic way, and they felt

so sorry for the woman and the way she was treated in that courtroom.

They wanted to do something to show her some kindness and support and

solidarity. Luckily that has been well supported by the British

public. More than 40 female Labour MPs have written to the

Attorney-General supporting a change in the law to stop the sexual

history of rape complainant is being used against them in court, after

the complainant's sexual history was raised in this case. Do you think

there needs to be a change in the law?

It has been said this is not precedent. Whilst it is not law

precedent it has been there and available in law for a long time.

The effect that it is going to have is discouraging women from coming

forwards. I think reporting rapes are incredibly low are going to be

affected by this. It is going to be because of the way it is amplified

in the media. It's going to mean another sharp drop in reporting.

Women will be afraid of having their sexual history paraded before a

courtroom and in this case before, you know, the entire British public.

That's terrifying. Absolutely terrifying for women and that cannot

continue to happen. As the law stands, a complainant's sexual

history can only be raised if it is regarded by the judge as being

particularly pertinent to the case prior to this it has only happened

in one other case. Is there any reason to suspect it will be any

different going forward? This might be another effective one off? For

women who are brave enough to come forwards and sorry, I don't mean to

imply that other women aren't brave, but I think the fact that this has

been used in such a high-profile case has raised awareness that it

exists and it raised awareness for those that will be accused in the

future. You said at the beginning the complainant has asked about the

kindness being shown to her, "Why are people doing this to me?" She

has experienced a lot of abuse online. She is anonymous, but there

have been a lot on social media. It has been relentless and it has been

years of it and I can't imagine how she feels. Hearing that for so long

and you know, so many of us online do experience that kind of abuse and

that's another thing actually. It is really good that men are supporting

this fund as well because it shows that they aren't like those men.

They aren't the screaming masses of men who are saying this vile stuff

online. You say screaming masses, presumably it is a minority? It

feels like screaming masses. It feels like streaming masses some

days. There is one particular troll who has repeatedly named the

complainant and named her in the most graphic and horrible of ways.

Harasses me and her constantly online and has done so for years

with four or five Twitter accounts, three or four blogs. In the most

appalling and obsessive of ways, you know, it is just pure hatred for

women. We're speaking to you anonymously because of your concerns

for the sort of things that are said online. Yes. What are some of the

worst stuff that you've come across? I'm in no doubt men hate me enough

to kill me because a man expressed just days ago that he would like

someone to come around and cave my skull in. Whilst I'm brave, you

know, I do have a family and I can't risk that happening.

That was Jean Hatchet talking to me. Earlier, that's a pseudonym.

And Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape at that

A Christian bakery, found to have broken the law by refusing to bake

a cake with a pro-gay marriage slogan on it,

will learn the outcome of its appeal today.

Our correspondent Chris Buckler is at the Royal Courts

So, Chris, this is an appeal. Just remind us what this case is about.

Well, Joanna, this story which started two-and-a-half years ago at

a bakery in Belfast has attracted attention from around the world.

Some people characterise it as faith on trial. Others say it is a battle

against prejudice. Last year a court ruled that Ashers had discriminated

against a customer when it refused to bake a cake with a slogan saying,

"Support gay marriage." The owners of the bakery were Christians and

they said that message was inconsistants with their religious

beliefs and same-sex marriage is not legal in Northern Ireland. Gareth

Lee took a case supported by the equality watchdog for Northern

Ireland and won the case. So damages of ?500 were award against the

bakery. But the bakery supported by the Christian Institute decided to

appeal against that judgement and the verdict in that appeal will be

delivered this morning. The general manager of Ashers Bakery arrived at

court in the last half an hour. He is Daniel McArthur and gave a short

statement to reporters on his way in. It has been over two years since

our bake rye said it wasn't able to help campaigners who wanted to

change the law on marriage in Northern Ireland. We have always

said and say again today, while we are unwilling to endorse a view that

goes against our conscience we continue to happily serve whoever

comes through our doors, regardless of their background, lifestyle or

beliefs. This has never been about the customer. It's always been about

a message that contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible on marriage.

And the message that promotes a cause with which I and my family

fundamentally disagree. We hope and pray today that this court will send

a very different sort of message, one that protects the freedom of

people and businesses to work and remain faithful to their

consciences. It won't be much longer now until we hear that judgement and

after that, we might be able to say something further, but thank you.

That's the view of Daniel McArthur, the general manager of Ashers Baking

Company. We heard from Michael Wardlo. He arrived with Gareth Lee,

whose order was refused by the bakery. He said it is about equality

and law and no one should walk into a shop wondering what the shop

owner's religious convictions are and wondering if they will get

served. He says it is about common sense and he hopes that common sense

will prevail. The three judges at the Northern Ireland Court of Appeal

will give their judgements shortly. The hearing due to get underway at

10am. Latest reports from northern Iraq

say Iraqi special forces have begun shelling so-called Islamic State

positions near Mosul as the massive US-backed operation

to retake the city continues. Richard Galpi in is in nearby Irbil.

What's the latest, The key battle Richard? Or one of them is around a

town which is in the north-east and heading, it is the Kurdish forces

heading from the north-east towards Mosul. It lies on that road. We

understand now they have managed to encircle the town the it is a key

Islamic State stronghold. A fortified townment they have

encircled and they're increasing the pressure. They're hoping to re-take

the town as quickly as possible and if they do so, then they will be

within a few miles, perhaps at most ten miles from the outskirts of

Mosul city. So they would be right up to the outskirts of the key

objectives which is, of course, to take Mosul. That is obviously

important, but it has not happened yet so we have to wait and see. At

the same time, we now have reports of a third attack by Islamic State

militants in another part of the country. As you know, there has been

this attack last Friday on very important city Kirkuk. There was

then yesterday an attack in western Iraq on a place which is still

on-going as far as we understand it. That Islamic State militants are

still in control of three districts of that town and today, it has been

confirmed by senior Iraqi military officials that Islamic State

militants have attacked a town to the west of Mosul the Iraqi military

are saying they managed to repel that attack killing a number of

militants. They are saying there was a number of suicide car attacks, but

they managed to get that situation under control. So this kind of

counter offensive by Islamic State is building up steam. What does it

indicate about the IS strategy here? Well, it is a very clear strategy

that they want to divert attention away from the Mosul offensive and

get troops who are involved in the Mosul offensive to be pealed away. I

spoke to an intelligence source yesterday yesterday who ed in the

case of the attack on kir book by Islamic State militants, it was a

big attack the they are saying, its source are saying and we can't

verify or confirm it, but he was saying that two thousand Kurdish

fighters were pulled away from the Mosul offensive to carry out the

operation in Kirkuk. Those fighters were still in Kirkuk yesterday and

to give you some idea of the scale of that, 2,000 fighters, it is about

20% of the entire Kurdish forces involved in the Mosul offensive.

Thank you very much, Richard. It is time to catch up with the

weather with Carol. I haven't seen you since you had your fabulous

dance with Ed Balls. Did you see him on Saturday? I did. He was good. I

know they talked about him dropping Katya, but he is a very strong man.

I was confident he wouldn't do it, but it was good fun. What a good

sport. We're watching the exact moment you're talking about.

There it is. He gets to dance another time at least. He does. Good

luck to him too. He really looks like he is really enjoying it and it

is a nerve-wracking experience as well, Joanna. You should do it. I

think you'd be great. I'd love to. We got it here first!

The weather today, if you like it dry, isn't too bad. We have got

smashing pictures that our BBC Weather Watchers sent us. Look at

this one of Bridlington, a beautiful, beautiful sunrise. We

have had a beautiful start to the day in Hedon. The temperature is

only six Celsius. In Dumfries and Galloway, a beautiful start to the

day. Where we have had the clear skies by night is where we've had

the low temperatures, now slowly starting to recover. It is further

south, we have had a lot of cloud and rain courtesy of this weather

front and we will carry on with that scenario. Some of it has turned

thundery especially across parts of Devon and you can see the large gap,

the spacing of the isobars telling us it won't be as windy as

yesterday. The showers that we are seeing coming in from the North Sea,

won't get as far inland. North of our weather front for the North

Midlands, through Norfolk, most of North Wales and Northern England,

Scotland and Northern Ireland, it is largely dry. There is sunshine. Come

south, where we've got our weather front and we're back under the rain.

Across parts of Cornwall and south Devon this afternoon, we could see

slow moving torrential downpours. Not all of us will see them and we

will see further showers across South Wales. North Wales, north-west

England and Northern Ireland, a lot of dry weather around. A few showers

flirting with the coastline of Northern Ireland and also Western

Scotland, but as you can see a lot of dry weather, sunny spells, and

then down the East Coast of Scotland, as well as down the East

Coast of England, we are prone to those showers still at this stage,

but not making it terribly far inland, a lot of dry weather and

sunshine around the Wash and Suffolk, across southern areas and

where we have got the weather front there will be cloud and showery

outbreaks of rain. We continue with that scenario in the south-west

through the evening, but overnight, some of the showers start to fade

as. As they will do across eastern parts of Scotland and England.

Inland it will be a cold night and cold enough for a touch of frost.

Temperatures could dip to fi mus five Celsius. There will be some

patchy mist and fog forming. Some of which will drag its heels in terms

of clearance tomorrow. You can see where we still have a weather front,

there will be a fair bit of cloud around, but slowly through the day,

some of that will break up and we will see sunshine. But once again,

north of that weather front, we're in for a dry day with sunny spells

and temperatures between ten and 15 Celsius. Then it all changes as we

head into Wednesday. We lose the easterly which we have had for the

last wee while which has been dragging in a lot of low cloud and

showers. We see a return to more south-westerlies which is a milder

direction for us. That means that it is the west's turn to see more cloud

and showers coming in from the Atlantic in the Irish Sea. Whereas

in the east, dry, sunny and it will feel much better as well and it is a

very similar story as we head on into Thursday. The winds will be

stronger. We have got the rain coming in across the north-west and

we have got showers coming in across north-west England and Wales. It

will be drier and brighter with sunshine and highs up to 16 Celsius.

It is just before 10am. The Calais clearance begins.

Migrants and refugees pack up their belongings and queue to get on

busesment one migrant tells us he has been there months and is still

hoping to get to the UK. I am waiting to go to the UK. That

is why everybody lives in the Jungle. We are waiting to years, 15

months. My friend has been living here 14 months. His older brother

has been living in the Jungle 18 months. But you want to get across

the channel to the UK? Why? Yes. Because I like the UK. Because I go

to the UK. Everything is there. I am happy there. That is why I go to the

UK. We will be live in Calais shortly. Also on the programme: So

many of you getting in touch to react to the interview with Jack

Davis when he spoke about how he copes with the feelings of grief and

pain after losing two baby boys. I was 21 at the time. It was our first

child. We had no idea what to do. We had no idea what was going on. I had

an idea of what was going to happen but I didn't know how to react in

that moment. It was a case of do what people said, getting to the

hospital, doing what the doctors said and going with it. It was

heartbreaking. We knew the inevitable before we were told. With

it being our first child, it had such an impact on us, even if we

ever tried again. Katie on Facebook says very brave to speak out on

television. I lost twin boys ten years ago now. I was 28 weeks. It

does get easier with time. My boys are always with me. You are so

brave. Later on the programme we will hear from mothers are premature

babies who are campaigning for longer maternity leave to give them

more support. Plaster casts for kids' wrist

fractures, also pointless. It turns out that some of the most

commonly used treatments offered by GPs and hospitals are of little

use according to senior doctors. We'll speak to two doctors to find

out why and what the other ones are. Now we can catch up on all of the

news with Julian in the newsroom. Thank you.

Hundreds of French police officers and officials have started clearing

the migrant camp in Calais known as the Jungle.

Several thousand people have been living there while trying to cross

This morning, many have been queueing to register to be taken

to other parts of France where they can apply for asylum.

The Home Office says the transfer of children to the UK from the Calais

Campbell has been temporarily paused at the request of France while the

site is cleared. -- the Calais camp. A British banker has pleaded not

guilty to murdering two Indonesian women in Hong Kong,

on grounds of diminished Prosecutors rejected an attempt

by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty plea on the lesser

charge of manslaughter. The bodies of the Indonesian

women were found at his Rurik Jutting who's 31 faces life

in prison if convicted in what is being described

as Hong Kong's biggest A group of medical leaders have

listed 40 treatments and procedures which they say offer

little or no benefit to patients. The initiative is aimed

at cutting down the number They include X rays for lower back

pain and plaster casts for children A young dad in his 20s,

whose blog about losing two babies in a year went viral,

has given his first ever interview to the Victoria

Derbyshire programme. 22-year-old Jack Davis wrote about

his grief online after his partner Liane encouraged him to write about

his feelings. He spoke to Joanna earlier on.

We were so ready to be parents, even at a young age. When we found out

she was parent! Brabant, we suddenly grew up and toured a lot more. Not

that we were immature. -- when we found out she was pregnant, we

suddenly grew up and mature a lot more. When we found out we were not

going to be parents, I don't know how you deal with that. When you

find that is taken away from you, it is not happening any more, I don't

know how you are supposed to react to that.

An undercover BBC investigation has discovered that Syrian refugee

children have been making clothes for British retailers

The Panorama programme found that children without work permits had

been working on products for Marks Spencer

The brands say they do not tolerate exploitation or child labour.

An M spokesman said the findings were extremely serious.

That is a summary of the latest BBC News. We will have more for you at

10:30am. Thank you. So many of you getting in touch with reactions to

Jac Davies's story of losing two babies. Julia last nine babies who

were all boys before I eventually had two healthy boys. So touching.

And particularly useful is what not to say. People trying to be helpful

but it has the opposite effect. And Kelly on Facebook says beautiful. So

many people forget about the men. Do get in touch with everything we are

talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and if you text, you will be charged Let's get the sport now

from Katherine Downes. But England clinched victory this

morning in the first Test The hosts started the final day

needing just 33 more runs to secure a first ever Test

victory over England. But man of the match Ben Stokes took

the final two wickets in three balls, as England secured the win

by 22 runs on the final day's play. The second and final

Test is on Friday. We knew that we were going to create

chances and it was just a matter of if we could hold onto them. It was

up to the umpire to give as those breakthroughs with the LBW

decisions. We just managed to take wickets at the right moment. The

last two were perfect timing. It was an afternoon Jose Mourinho

would rather forget as he returned to Chelsea for the first time

since leaving the club last year. His Manchester United team

were thrashed 4-0 at Stamford Bridge and stay seventh in

the Premier League. Mourinho took his frustrations out

on Antonio Conte after the match. He spoke to his Italian counterpart

at the final whistle, with suggestions he had been annoyed

that Conte had whipped up the home The match started 1-0. It is as easy

as that. Football matches start 0-0 and this match started 1-0. A team

like Chelsea comfortable in playing counterattack, you give them the

chance to play like they want, so yes, we create conditions by having

such a big mistake in the first of all.

Manchester City remain top of the Premier League

despite being without a win in five games.

A John Stones mistake allowed Nathan Redmond to give

City equalised after the break through substitute

We just had to defend really well. They are a good team with good

players, good central defenders. We created chances in the second half.

In the end they scored a goal. In the second half they had other

chances. It is always like this. Celtic will play Aberdeen in

the final of the Scottish League Cup Moussa Dembele scored a late winner

against Rangers to earn Brendan Rodgers' side their second

Old Firm victory of the season. A 50th career race win

for Lewis Hamilton at the US Grand Prix has cut Mercedes teammate

Nico Rosberg's Championship It was Hamilton's fourth

win at the Circuit of the Americas in Austin,

Texas. The destiny of the Drivers'

Championship is still very much out He could win all three

of his remaining races I love being here in the United

States. Very much feels like home. We had some incredible support here

this weekend, which I am so thank you all. Big thanks to everyone. I

feel very proud of being part of it. Lewis Hamilton talking to Gerard

Butler, I think! Thank you. So the operation to clear the Jungle

camp in Calais is under way this morning and the first of hundreds

of buses carrying migrants to new reception centres all over

France have been leaving the site. Queues have formed at a centre

nearby, where occupants of the camp are assessed before being taken

in coaches to shelters The Jungle is a migrant camp

near the port of Calais and close to the entrance to the Channel

Tunnel. It houses migrants who are

trying to enter the UK. The number of people who live

in the camp varies. In mid-October, officials

conducted what they call a visual survey of the camp,

and they estimated there were around It's estimated that,

of those, 1200 were One of those children

was a 13-year-old Afghan boy who Lily Allen met

on this programme. The camp's closing

in a couple of weeks. It just seems that three different

intervals in this young boy's life the English in particular

have put you in danger. We've bombed your country,

put you in the hands of the Taliban and now putting you at risk,

risking your life to I'm sorry

for what we've put you through. He's since been reunited

with his dad in Birmingham, but charities say there

are still hundreds of unaccompanied children in the Jungle, many

of which live in squalid conditions. Even though France and Germany

have offered to house many of the migrants,

they still want to come to the UK I asked a few Syrians that here,

and they said it's because they speak English and they'd rather go

to a country where English It's also because some of them have

got friends and relatives who already live in Britain,

so they are still prepared to try and get there,

and to live in this awful place Many migrants attempt to hide

themselves in cargo vehicles It's why, in September,

work began on a 13-foot wall funded by the UK Government to try and stop

migrants from stowing At the beginning of the year,

half the camp was cleared, and that led to violence between law

enforcement, protesters, This road marks the

Jungle's new boundary. Everything to the south

of it is going to be cleared out The irony is that migrants

here are clinging on to makeshift shelters in a country most

don't want to be in. Moving to official migrant camps

with heat and electricity means These temporary shacks show

their resolve not to settle here. So even now, if the Jungle

is completely razed, as is planned, many say something similar

will simply pop up somewhere else. That's because many of the migrants

will stay in the area to get I will sleep on the street

if they remove the camp. I will not move one

inch from here. I have one hope, just to get

to the UK, and I don't We can now speak to a number

of people in Calais. Red Godfrey Sagoo, from Citizens UK

who has been helping unaccompanied child migrants in the camp,

Caroline Gregory from campaign group Calais Action, Pippa Hatton

from the charity Doctors Of The World and Jean Marc

Puissesseau, who is head of the camp as an early

Christmas present for Calais. Why do you see this as an early

Christmas present? It is a present because the presence of 10,000

migrants close to the port, close to the highway, and migrants want to

stop the lorries every night, and disturb our business. We are going

to lose about 12 million turnover this year because of the migrants.

You will very easily understand that the disbandment of the Jungle is

good for us. We hope to work again peacefully and without any danger

for our clients. Some migrants are saying they will not leave Calais.

What will you do if that is the case? I think that some don't want

to leave Calais. I think they have already left the Jungle to hide

themselves somewhere in the neighbourhood of Calais. If the

police force is not staying in Calais, what they have done now,

dismantling it, will be a waste of time. It is essential that police

forces stay in Calais and control if migrants come back and try again to

get to your country. Are there any guarantees that will be the case?

Yes, we have had a guarantee from the Home Office minister. The police

force will stay in Calais and migrants that are intercepted will

be controlled and I hope they will be sent to an international centre

or back to their countries if they don't understand that is no way to

get to England, illegally. I want to bring in the other is that we are

talking to. Read, you are there in the cab, what are people saying

about whether they want to leave or to stay? -- in the camp. There are

couple of issues here. Folks are lining up to take the next step but

I think there is also concern about when they go through the

registration process, the uncertainty of whether legal rights

will be afforded to them on the other side. That is not just for the

Dublin and Dubbs applicants, but those seeking asylum in France.

There needs to be recognition that the demolition itself has uniformly

been agreed by everybody, it had to happen, because this is no way for

human beings to live. The other side of it is there needs to be a

long-term solution to the crisis itself, not just in Calais but

across Europe in general. We have seen dramatic newspaper

pictures of resistance there. What's the prospective that you have and

what are people saying to you? Everything is very calm and peaceful

here today. There was some tear gas last night, but that is fairly

standard. There is tear gas many times a week. There has been no

particular protests against the demolition specifically. So I think

that's rather false advertising if you like that there has been any

specific protests relating to the demolition. Pippa Doctors Of The

World, is closure the right thing and it being handled in the right

way? A refugee camp is never the answer, but if it is being handled

in the right way that's difficult to say because the information we're

receiving is limited. There are centres that the people are being

taken to, we don't know where they are, let alone what the fal silts

have. And for us, this is a humanitarian emergency and the

response at the moment is very political. For us, obviously, the

prime factor is healthcare. People's physical and mental health really

need to be taken into consideration. And it just seems that's not really

happening. And also, the thing there are many people who will choose to

stay or find a way to stay or will come back to the camp and then they

will be left with really, really squalid conditions, even fewer

facilities, we have had it before when we've been working here when

there were people with no running water. Skin and respiratory

infections were rife and that's likely to happen again. Do you have

sympathy for the migrants there? Well, you know, that's about 15

years we have migrants in Calais so we have a lot of sympathy. We are

not at all against the immigrants, but we are completely against the

facts that they are dangerous. Some of them are very dangerous. They

have knives and try to sometimes try to attack drivers. They are throwing

everything on the trucks at the driver. They are very dangerous and

we cannot accept that migrants who want to get to England disturb our

business. We can't understand that they are being suffering in their

countries. We cannot accept that they are disturbing our business.

They are destroying the image of Calais as a peaceful town. I want to

bring in Red. Do you share those concerns? Do you think that some of

the migrants have not gun good enough neighbours in Calais? I think

there has to be a balance on this on the subject itself. We have been in

Calais for a year and even the local papers up until like a few days ago,

they did polls and 50% of the Calais cap passion say they understand this

has to be a long-term solution and that you cannot just apply a band

aid by demolish k the camp, there has to be a balanced approach. The

praoumry focus has to be safeguarding of the minors who are

here which is the moment the British taking some on. There is sympathy

all-round for the local population, for the businesses, and for the

refugees and the migrants themselves. The thing that we're

trying to stress is that, it should not be, we shouldn't have wait add

year to get to this point and on top of that, the minors have walked from

other countries. So where were their legal rights at the beginning of

their journeys before they got to this point?

Thank you very much. May I add something as well? Briefly. We've

lost the line. That's the point about the local businesses. We're

struggling to hear you. We see want to go, thank you very much, but we

want to go to our reporter Frankie McCamley who is outside lunar House

in Croydon. It is the immigration centre where child refugees have

been arriving. This morning, it was announced those transfers have been

suss spended. What's the -- suspended and what's the reason and

how long for? Well, what we have been told by the Home Office in the

last hour, they have released a statement to say due to the

operational activity in Calais at the request of the French

authorities, we have reluctantly agreed that the transfer process

will be temporarily paused for 24 hours. Now, it is unclear the number

of children that, the number of child refugees that will be

affected, but what we understand over the last week, 200 children

arrived. There was an influx over the weekend. More than 100 children

arriving here. They were coming on coaches. Arriving behind this big

screen that's been erected behind me. The scaffolding put up following

criticism of some of the children arriving. One MP calling for dental

and hand x-rays to confirm the age of some of these children as they

were arriving, but they come here. They have further identity checks

like fingerprints taken. Then they go through the application process.

That could last more about five or six hours. But what we are being

told today is that no children from the jungle, the migrant camp, in

Calais will be arriving here. That transfer process Joanna has been

temporarily suspended. Frankie, thank you very much. A viewer

e-mailed to say, "As a migrant myself, it is not surprising to see

that all asl lum seekers want to come to the UK." . The assumption is

the law can be bent to get free housing." Another viewer says, "Most

people don't want anymore migrants." Thank you for your comments and keep

them coming in on anything we are talking about. We will be talking

about the fact that doctors are saying some of the most commonly

used medical practises and procedures offer no benefit to

patients. We ask doctors which treatments they think are the most

pointless. Earlier on the programme we heard

the devastating story of one family But even if the worst doesn't

happen, the pressure on parents Maternity leave starts

the moment your baby is born, which means if they stay in hospital

for a long time - in some cases months and months and months,

mothers lose out on time at home This week a campaign to extend

maternity leave for mothers of premature babies will be

heard in Parliament. Here's the story of one mum

from Devon whose entire maternity I was relieved that he was alive,

but I didn't truly understand what having a baby at 26

weeks really meant. When I went into the intensive care

unit, it was a big shock. It was the reality that I guess

I never wanted. Seeing other children pass away,

it was a massive reality to myself and my husband that that

could have been our outcome. Henry has been unwell with his lungs

and his heart. He also has a condition

called hydrocephalus, which was the main issue

when he was born prematurely. When he's been at the illest,

we have prepared for him He has spent all his life

in intensive care. I've been a social worker

for just over five years. I wasn't aware that when Henry

was born it would instantly I took the 12 months

that I was entitled to. My maternity leave was completely

taken up in hospital. I feel, I use the term slightly

robbed of my right to spend time with my child at home,

but that is my situation After parents have spent a period

of time, a significant period of time, on a neo-natal unit,

they need time to emotionally The way that it currently is,

no sooner are they taken out of a traumatic situation,

they then have to face the trauma of going back to work before

they've even practically I was thinking about it last night,

the first time I took Henry out on my own in his buggy

was when he was 11 months old. The first time he breathed air

was when he was nine months old. It might sound really bizarre

to a person who was able to take their child home straightaway,

but it was like a dream come true. The normal things we should

be doing with a child, when you have a child,

the expectations are gone, and so the 12 months

I would have had off, Now I'm on sick leave,

and that's not something I've ever had to do before,

and that feels horrible. Why should I not have that time

with my son that many, It's been beautiful in most

of the moments, but in the most I can't describe it in any other

way, it's literally I've had many conversations

with other parents who have felt, I always refer to it as robbed,

but who feel that they have Sitting in a hospital

staring into an incubator, being kind of a mum

because you're there, To be able to be a mum,

and what you hope to be when you have a child or get

pregnant, doesn't really start until you step out of the hospital

doors and you come home, That's why this issue's

so important. Let's talk now to Isobel Lambe

and Daniel Bowman. Their daughter Matilda was born

nine weeks premature. Isobel says being forced to go back

to work earlier than she was ready to ultimately

cost her her job and has led Casey Dean has five children -

two of whom were born premature. The youngest of which Annabel

was born last month and is currently on a ventilation system

at a neo-natal clinic. Helen Kirrane is head of policy

at the charity, Bliss. Bliss is a charity for premature

and sick babies. Steve Reed the Labour

MP for Croydon North who is going to ask for a change

in the law in Parliament this week. To allow mums of premature babies to

have longer maternity leave. Thank you for coming in. The lady in

our film obviously had a particularly extreme experience, a

terrible experience. I mean, you had a more typical experience, but very

difficult nonetheless. Your daughter Matilda was premature and was in

hospital for sometime. Tell us prior to that sudden arrival, what your

expectation had been about maternity leave and how everything suddenly

changed. My experience about maternity leave I guess was to

finish a couple of weeks before she was due. Sort of spend time getting

the house ready, doing, painting her bedroom, getting all of her nursery

set-up and things like that and then to once she was born bring her home

and be able to watch her develop within the comfort of her own home

and you know be the one to change all of her nappies and things like

that and for that not to be able to happen and to be able to do that, I

think, was really, really hard. Really hard. Were you conscious of

the fact that the clock is ticking when your child comes early and your

maternity leave is being counted down? Yeah, very much so. She was

only in for four weeks and we were told to expect her in until she was

full-term, so we were lucky, but if she was in full-term that's two

months out of the maternity leave and that's only seven months to be

able to do things with her like most, you know, all families should

be able to do with her. And take her out and show her off and you know,

we weren't able to do that. So when you went back to work, did you feel

like you went back prematurely? Yes. Technically, yes, it was nine

months, but in reality she was only the size, she was only doing what a

seven-month-old baby should be doing. She could only just sit up

and things like that. So it was really, really difficult and with

the mental health... You have been through something very difficult as

well when you've been through that experience. Daniel, you were going

through that as well and you had to go back to work... I was back in

work the morning after she was born. She was born at five o'clock on the

month and I was back in work at the ten o'clock on the Tuesday morning.

What was going on in your head? I wasn't with it. But I have

responsibilities to see learners and we had the decision when we knew she

was going to be early that I would wait and take my leave when Ma

little da came home otherwise I was spending my pa personity leave

within the confines of a neo-natal unit. You've got five children.

Three were born prematurely. The most recent child only three weeks

ago. How is she? How are you? Well, she is doing as well as she can be

at the Home Secretary. She has different stages of ventilation and

she has come down off the big one. So we're very hopeful. But it

changes from minute to hours, to days, to weeks and then you go back

to square one again. So it is very traumatic. My hole family has been

through hell the last 12 months. We only had Louis on Boxing Day and I

spent all Christmas in hospital last year and I didn't see my other three

children. It has been really hard and obviously Annabel was a shock.

And was born just as premature. Sherp both born at 24 weeks. So they

were 16 weeks earliment we were in hospital with Lucy for

four-and-a-half months and it was a rollercoaster. We only came out at

the end of April and from 19 weeks of being pregnant with Annabel we

ended back in hospital because my waters had started. So I managed to

get to 24 weeks, but it is hard. It is hard on me because I can't do

much with her. And don't feel like I'm being a proper mum, but on the

other hand it is hard on the whole family. I've got four children at

home. So we're backwards and forwards from the hospital because

she is not in our town. Steve, we are talking about this

today because you want there to be a change in the law so that mothers

like this get to have their maternity leave extended. Why is it

so important? As we are hearing this morning, having a premature baby is

one of the most restful and traumatic experiences that any

parent can have. Maternity provisions assume that your child is

born at full term and healthy, so there isn't the flexibility that

parents with premature babies need to devote the time that they have to

devote to their child's well-being. They are in a special care unit

watching their child often fighting for its life and that can go on for

weeks or months, and then to be told on top of that that you have a

reduced period of maternity leave once your child comes home, that is

traumatic for parents that have already suffered immensely but it is

also damaging for the child who needs that time physically bonding

with parents when that wasn't possible before when they were in an

incubator with the lights flashing. How important have you found

maternity leave to be for the mothers who have come into contact

with? It is a really important issue. Mothers contact us about this

very regularly. As we have heard, having a baby born premature or sick

is very traumatic and it is also very expensive. The additional costs

that families face when their babies are away from home, in the hospital,

in terms of travel, accommodation to stay close to their baby, even food

and drink at the hospital can be very pricey. The financial costs

really add to the burden that parents face and at a time of such

trauma, the last thing we want parents to be worrying about is

whether they can afford to be with their babies in hospital and that

precious bonding time at home with them afterwards as well. Casey, URI

maternity right out because as we are hearing it kicks in the moment a

baby is born. -- you are on maternity leave. How long are you

hoping to have off? I am quite lucky because I work for myself so I am

quite flexible. When I had the other little one I had to give up work. I

was a registered nurse. I had to give up work because they couldn't

keep the door open any longer than I had already had. Because he was born

so early, I had to take maternity leave much earlier than I expected

anyway, so it caused chaos. At the moment I am quite fortunate. I know

other mothers on the unit and they are panicking about going back to

work. It is true what they say. It is all about bonding. You try and

bond. When you do get your baby home that is the time you should be

bonding with your baby and I wasn't able to do that. I went back to work

for a slight period of time but I just couldn't do it. I didn't feel

like I was a to bond with him properly. What you are describing is

similar to what ended up happening to you, isn't it? Do you think if

you had had longer, if the law that Steve would like to see happening

had been in place, would it have made a difference? I think it would.

When I came out of hospital I found it really hard to start bonding with

Matilda. For a month of her life, nurses were changing her and feeding

her. As a mother, because you have had nurses doing that for you, you

feel like you're not capable of doing that and you should have the

nine months with your baby at home. So it is almost like a fresh start

for you. Does it come down to a specific period of time? Is it just

the fact that there is extra care and attention needed and a mother

will have different requirements having been through the experience

that we are hearing described? Generally babies stay in hospital

for the length of time which they would have spent developing in the

womb. So it is different for every baby and every family. But it is so

important, as Isabel has said, to have that really important bonding

time with your baby. It is important for the baby's health, and it is

important for the parents' psychological health and well-being

that they can be involved in their baby's care in hospital but also

during that precious time at home, getting to know their baby,

supporting them to develop, to set up, to start weaning, to do all the

things that we take for granted normally. That precious time at home

with your baby after they come out of hospital. Thank you. Some

breaking news to bring you from Belfast Court of Appeal. We are just

hearing that the Christian owned bakery Ashers which was found to

have discriminated against a gay man for refusing to make a cake with a

pro-gay marriage slogan has lost their appeal. We will bring you more

on that later. The Christian owned bakery Ashers has lost its challenge

at the Court of Appeal in Belfast. Still to come:

Dozens of the most commonly used treatments offered

by GPs and hospitals are pointless or overused, so say senior doctors.

We'll be speaking to two doctors to find out why and what they are.

Listen to me! Are you listening? OK, I am trying to wipe the floor. Give

me a second. What was going on? Justin Bieber storms off stage

in Manchester after the crowd booed him when he told them

to stop screaming. Hundreds of French police officers

and officials have started clearing the migrant camp in Calais known

as the Jungle. Several thousand people have been

living there while trying to cross This morning, many have been queuing

to register to be taken to other parts of France where

they can apply for asylum. The Home Office says the transfer

of children to the UK from Calais camp has been temporarily paused

at the request of France There needs to be a recognition that

the demolition itself has been formally agreed by everybody. It had

to happen because this is no way for human beings to live. The other side

of it is ultimately there needs to be a long-term solution to the

crisis itself, not just in Calais but across Europe in general.

A British banker has pleaded not guilty to murdering two Indonesian

women in Hong Kong on grounds of diminished responsibility.

Prosecutors rejected an attempt by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty

plea on the lesser charge of manslaughter.

The bodies of the Indonesian women were found at his

Rurik Jutting, who's 31, faces life in prison if convicted

in what is being described as Hong Kong's biggest murder

Senior doctors have listed 40 treatments and procedures that they

say offer little or no benefit to patients. The initiative is aimed at

cutting down the number of unnecessary treatment. They include

x-rays were lower back pain and plaster casts of children with small

wrist fractures. That is a summary of the latest news.

Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11 o'clock.

Katherine is back now with the morning's sports headlines.

England have this morning clinched victory in dramatic

fashion in the first Test against Bangladesh.

Man of the match Ben Stokes took the final two wickets in three balls

as England secured the win by 22 runs on the final day's

It was an afternoon to forget for Jose Mourinho as he returned

to Chelsea for the first time since leaving the club last year.

His United team were thrashed 4-0 at Stamford Bridge and stay seventh

Celtic will play Aberdeen in the final of the Scottish League Cup

Moussa Dembele scored a late winner against Rangers to earn

Brendan Rodgers' side their second Old Firm victory of the season.

And a 50th career race win for Lewis Hamilton at the US

Grand Prix has cut Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg's Championship

That is all the sport. Back to you. Thank you. Let's go straight to the

Royal Courts of Justice in Belfast where a Christian owned Bakers has

lost its appeal against a court judgment that it unlawfully

discriminated against a customer when they refused to bake a cake

with the slogan support gay marriage. Our correspondent is

there. Tell us about the ruling. Yes, it is worth having a bit of

background to this. Ashers baking company were approached by a client

and they wanted them to bake this cake which had a message of support

to same-sex marriage. The company is family-owned and they objected to

that because they said it would seem like they support same-sex marriage

in some way, which is still illegal in Northern Ireland as opposed to

other parts of the UK. Today's judgment is very clear. It is an

appeal against an earlier ruling that they had discriminated against

the customer on the grounds of his political beliefs and sexual

orientation. In simple terms the court said: Where they correct as a

matter of law to hold discrimination? They were very

clear. They said yes. They went through a range of options saying at

one stage that it did not suggest in any way the company was supporting

same-sex marriage, no more than it would if you put which is on a

Halloween cake that you are somehow supporting witches. However there

was support for the equality commission. The equality commission

has supported this case and bringing it to court on the grounds of

discrimination. There was a feeling from the cord that it should also

have offered advice to the other side in this case. It should not be

beyond the capacity of the commission to provide a range of

advice to the appellants at an earlier stage and they hope in

future such a course will be followed if such a situation were to

arise in the future. It is a very clear judgment. Currently the two