05/12/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


05/12/2016

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Hello it's Monday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

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A landmark legal hearing begins today

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to determine whether it's the prime minister or Parliament which decides

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when the UK should begin the process to leave the European Union.

:00:16.:00:20.

All 11 supreme court judges will meet together for the first

:00:21.:00:23.

Their ruling could have far-reaching political

:00:24.:00:27.

It has emerged that an ex-Southampton youth coach

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accused of sexually abusing boys in the 1980s was able

:00:32.:00:34.

to keep working as a coach until very recently -

:00:35.:00:37.

after he wasn't police checked for his new job.

:00:38.:00:39.

Bob Higgins was cleared of sexual abuse charges in 1992,

:00:40.:00:41.

but had been the subject of a police warning about his behaviour.

:00:42.:00:48.

We speak to one of six former Southampton youth players who say

:00:49.:00:51.

And what would be the one thing you would grab if you were

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We've been talking to a handful of the millions of Syrians made

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refugees by six years of fighting about the precious items

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I took my costume and I put it in the bag, and I left. We all left.

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When I weather costume, I feel strong. -- when I wear the costume.

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Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

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We will also have reaction to a major report on integration

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in Britain which says that for over a decade,

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local communities to become increasingly divided.

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Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

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use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE and if you text, you will be charged

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Italy's prime minister will officially resign this

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afternoon after losing a referendum on changes to the

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Matteo Renzi had hoped his plans would streamline parliament and cut

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bureaucracy, but the poll was widely seen as a chance to register

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The result was clear and what the Prime Minister felt he had to do

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next was also. TRANSLATION: I will call a cabinet meeting and I thank

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my colleagues for an extraordinary adventure. It has been a United,

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strong combat team. I will then go to the presidential palace, where I

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will tender my resignation to the president. On paper, the referendum

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was about a package of plans put forward by the Prime Minister to

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streamline parliament. But many saw this as a vote on Matteo Renzi

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himself, and Italy's establishment. During the campaign, he said if the

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verdict did not go his way, he would resign, perhaps in an attempt to

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galvanise yes voters. But that did not happen. TRANSLATION: I lost, and

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I say it loud and clear, even if I have a lump in my throat, because we

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are not robots. I wasn't able to win. I beg you to believe that I did

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everything I thought was possible at this stage. This man Beppe Grillo,

:03:20.:03:30.

was a central figure in the campaign behind the no vote. By well-known

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comedian and political activist, he founded the populace 5-star movement

:03:34.:03:38.

and is used to taking centre stage. Following the result, the party is

:03:39.:03:41.

now calling for a general election, hoping to seize power. TRANSLATION:

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This is the right time to reunite this country that was divided by the

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referendum, and to call new elections and have it decided once

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again. Out on the streets of Rome, no voters celebrate. TRANSLATION:

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The no vote won. Roma won. It couldn't have gone better than that

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tonight. TRANSLATION: I think with this vote, Italian people wanted to

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express not only a note of constitutional reform, but also a

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firm note of the policies of the government and the European Union.

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As with the UK's vote to leave the European Union and the United

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States, this might be seen as a victory for populism over the

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establishment. Now a summary of the rest

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of the day's news. A landmark legal hearing begins this

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morning to determine whether it's the Prime Minister or Parliament

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which decides when the UK should begin the process

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to leave the European Union. 11 Supreme Court judges

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will meet for the first time Their ruling could have

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far-reaching political This report from our

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Political Correspondent Iain Watson. Who decides when the UK should

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begin to leave the EU? That's the question the highest

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court in the land will be trigger Article 50, the formal

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start of negotiations. We will invoke Article 50 no later

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than the end of March next year. But some campaigners won their case

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at the High Court last month by arguing that

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because it was parliament which gave us new rights

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when we first joined the EU, then only parliament and not just

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government ministers It is not about me or my team,

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it's about our United Kingdom But the government then announced it

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would appeal to the Supreme Court which will now listen to a week

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of legal arguments. So what happens if

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the Government loses? The judges won't give

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us their decision until A bill would then be put before

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Parliament to leave the EU. Opposition MPs would probably

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try to make changes and might even But Brexit itself

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isn't in the balance. Most Conservative and Labour MPs

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will respect the referendum result even if many of those

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voted to remain. Our legal eagle Clive Coleman is at

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the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is being watched probably as it has

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never been watched before. Take us through what will happen today? As

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you say, I have been covering this court for a long time and I have

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never seen anything like this, the world's press and the public

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queueing up, demonstrators dressed as judges. The atmosphere is

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extraordinary. Today, the government that is bringing this appeal will

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set out its case. It says amply that in order to enforce the democratic

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will of the people through the referendum, it is entitled to use

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what are known as executive or prerogative powers. These are powers

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that were handed down from the crown from times when kings and queens

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could do pretty much as they liked, although it is accepted that they

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can be used by the government in foreign relations, in entering into

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and withdrawing from treaties. The government will argue that that is

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what is happening here, that we are simply withdrawing from a treaty.

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What happened at the High Court was that Gina Miller, the businesswoman,

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argued successfully that the process of triggering article 50 would wipe

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away statutory rights enjoyed by the citizens, by you and me, and that

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only Parliament had the authority to do that. Those are the two sides.

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Ministers say, we have the executive power to do it, bypassing

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Parliament. Gina Miller's side argues that no, Parliament creates

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laws and only Parliament can wipe away those rights. The attorney will

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open the gates for the government and then he will hand over to

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Richard James QC, who will be speaking for most of the day. It

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will be on the nature of the rights that have been passed into British

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law as a result of our entry into what was the European Economic

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Community, now the EU. A lot of the argument will focus on the nature of

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those rights. Are they statutory rights which only Parliament can get

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rid of, or are they what are known as treaty rights, a vehicle of a

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treaty, and therefore it is legitimate for the government to act

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through ministers alone in amending or getting rid of those rights by

:08:36.:08:42.

means of triggering article 50? It may sound like lawyers dancing on

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the head of a pin, but that is the meat of the argument, the heart of

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the dispute. And that is the case the government will be outlining

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today. Some communities in Britain

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are becoming increasingly divided as they become more ethnically

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diverse, according to a review The report by Dame Louise Casey

:08:58.:08:59.

warned some areas were struggling to cope with the pace

:09:00.:09:04.

and scale of immigration. She also suggested political leaders

:09:05.:09:07.

had failed to deal with issues of integration for fear

:09:08.:09:09.

of being labelled racist. Here's our political

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correspondent, Ross Hawkins. It's been 15 years since an official

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report said different communities in northern towns

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were leading parallel lives. A report today says worrying levels

:09:28.:09:29.

of segregation remain and the authorities sanction harmful

:09:30.:09:32.

attitudes in the name And while Dame Louise Casey

:09:33.:09:34.

criticises other faiths, she repeatedly focuses on Muslims,

:09:35.:09:41.

saying women and girls get regressive advice

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about their lifestyles Some women were stopped

:09:44.:09:44.

from getting their basic rights, she says, while there was growing

:09:45.:09:49.

sense of grievance amongst parts But that, Muslim groups say, doesn't

:09:50.:09:51.

give a full or a fair picture. We of course want to ensure that

:09:52.:10:00.

both men and women have equal access Of course there should be no

:10:01.:10:04.

discrimination based on gender. These are realities that Muslim

:10:05.:10:10.

communities as well as communities across the UK will be united

:10:11.:10:12.

in trying to fight together. When she was Home Secretary,

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Theresa May said the government would do more than any other

:10:17.:10:19.

to promote integration. Today's report says it has fallen

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short of that ambition. Ministers say they'll

:10:23.:10:25.

study its findings. Fleet Town Football Club

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says a former coach - accused of abusing youth players

:10:31.:10:33.

at Southampton FC in the 1980s - The BBC has spoken to six former

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footballers who have made Until recently, he worked

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with Fleet Town's adult first team Meanwhile, three former footballers

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who lifted the lid on alleged, widespread child sexual abuse

:10:49.:10:58.

in the game have announced they're forming an independent organisation

:10:59.:11:00.

to support other potential victims. Andy Woodward, Steve Walters

:11:01.:11:03.

and Chris Unsworth want the "Offside Trust" to represent

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players and their families. Since they spoke out,

:11:05.:11:07.

hundreds more alleged 18 police forces are now

:11:08.:11:15.

investigating related claims. A fire at a hotel in the Pakistani

:11:16.:11:18.

city of Karachi has killed The blaze started in

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the kitchen and swept Dozens of people are being treated

:11:26.:11:28.

for burns and other injuries. At least 33 people are now known

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to have died in a warehouse fire in California, and its feared

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the death toll could rise further. The fire broke out in the Oakland

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warehouse on Friday Authorities say only about 20

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percent of the building has been searched so far,

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and they say a significant number The US President elect,

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Donald Trump has attacked the policies of China in a series

:11:53.:11:55.

of strongly-worded tweets. He accused Beijing of currency

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manipulation and flexing Last week, Mr Trump was criticised

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for taking a phone call from the President of Taiwan,

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an island the US hasn't had diplomatic ties

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with for almost 40 years. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:12:08.:12:15.

News - more at 9.30. Still to come, we will speak to a

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former Southampton player who says he was abused by a former coach

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there. Now let's catch up with the sport.

:12:33.:12:41.

An astonishing comeback from Bournemouth in the Premier League

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yesterday? Absolutely, a matter for the neutrals. Certainly for the

:12:45.:12:49.

Bournemouth fans. One of the comebacks of the Premier League

:12:50.:12:58.

season so far. This goal from Emre Can set Bournemouth up -- set

:12:59.:13:06.

Liverpool up for what looked like a certain win, but Bournemouth pulled

:13:07.:13:09.

another goal back and then they scored this one to level the match,

:13:10.:13:14.

defender Stephen Cook in the right place at the right time. That

:13:15.:13:19.

certainly felt like a victory, but they were not done, and they managed

:13:20.:13:23.

to get that winning goal to make it 4-3. An incredible turnaround for

:13:24.:13:36.

Bournemouth. And disappointment for Liverpool, who suffered a dent to

:13:37.:13:40.

their title challenge. But Jurgen Klopp was smiling at the end of the

:13:41.:13:44.

match. Obviously disappointed that his side let that Winslet, but he

:13:45.:13:48.

appreciated the incredible turnaround for Bournemouth and felt

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that they deserved it. But a frustrating afternoon for Manchester

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United? They have had many frustrating this season. Jose

:13:57.:13:59.

Mourinho is unhappy again that his side continue to let points slip

:14:00.:14:04.

from winning positions. They were leading 1-0 thanks to a lovely goal

:14:05.:14:08.

from striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Look at this for a lovely volley. It

:14:09.:14:18.

just drops in over the line. Jose Mourinho thought the win was on at

:14:19.:14:22.

that point until this happened. Marouane Fellaini, who had been

:14:23.:14:26.

brought in as a substitute, putting his first contribution to give that

:14:27.:14:30.

penalty away. The result was Leighton Baines scoring to see it

:14:31.:14:34.

finished 1-1. Hugely disappointing for Marouane Fellaini, brought on to

:14:35.:14:39.

defend that lead. Jose Mourinho feels that his side's performances

:14:40.:14:43.

are not getting the victories they deserve. As you can imagine, he was

:14:44.:14:47.

hugely frustrated at the end of the match. He would not talk about the

:14:48.:14:50.

penalty decision and he is annoyed that his team keep letting those

:14:51.:14:56.

leads slip. Family, snooker. A high-quality UK championship final

:14:57.:15:01.

last night. Yeah, on social media, everyone was saying it was one of

:15:02.:15:04.

the greatest finals they had ever witnessed, Mark Selby winning by ten

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frames to seven. That doesn't tell the full story. He was up against

:15:10.:15:13.

Ronnie O'Sullivan, who has won many times before. He actually came from

:15:14.:15:18.

five frames down. But Mark Selby did what he had to do to close out the

:15:19.:15:22.

match 10-7. He becomes only the sixth player to win both the world

:15:23.:15:31.

and UK titles in the same year. It demonstrates what high-quality they

:15:32.:15:35.

thought it was. Six time world champion Steve Davis said last

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night, while it is difficult to judge in rows, Selby is one of the

:15:38.:15:41.

greats already. If he doesn't know how great he is, he should just

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watch the tape of that match. Thank you, John.

:15:46.:15:55.

Judges in the most powerful court in the UK will today start hearing

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the Government's argument that it has the right to start the process

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of leaving the European Union without a debate in Parliament.

:16:03.:16:03.

Last month the High Court ruled that Ministers needed to seek

:16:04.:16:06.

the approval of parliament before triggering Article 50,

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which is the formal beginning of negotiations to end Britain's 40

:16:08.:16:11.

But the Government is appealing that decision.

:16:12.:16:14.

The 11 Judges of the Supreme Court will hear four days of evidence

:16:15.:16:16.

in what has been described as the most significant

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Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty lays down the rules for any country

:16:19.:16:39.

wanting to leave the EU. Once it is triggered it starts a two year clock

:16:40.:16:43.

running after which the UK will exit.

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But the arguments become about how under the law this process should

:16:48.:16:56.

work? This all seems like a long time ago. The new Prime Minister's

:16:57.:17:00.

message was clear, that... Brexit means Brexit. We will invoke Article

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50 no later than the end of March next year.

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Then Gina Miller came along. She is a businesswoman who with others

:17:17.:17:20.

decided to launch the legal case against the Government. Her argument

:17:21.:17:25.

is that even though the country voted for Brexit, Theresa May and

:17:26.:17:29.

her Cabinet, does not have the legal power to trigger Article 50. But

:17:30.:17:34.

only legislationks an Act of Parliament can give her that

:17:35.:17:40.

authority. Last month Gina Miller won her case at the High Court. It

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is about our United Kingdom and all our futures. It threw the whole

:17:46.:17:52.

Brexit process into turmoil. It sparked talk of a snap general

:17:53.:17:57.

election. And the three High Court judges were plastered all over the

:17:58.:18:02.

papers. So the Government's appealing at the Supreme Court. It

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is the highest court in the land. The Government will appeal to all 11

:18:14.:18:18.

of the court's justices. It is the first time they ever all proceeded

:18:19.:18:22.

over a case. They're independent and ruling on a point of law. But there

:18:23.:18:28.

have been calls for the president of the Supreme Court to step aside

:18:29.:18:33.

after reports his wife had tweeted that Brexit votes were just protest

:18:34.:18:41.

votes. And deputy president Lady Hale has

:18:42.:18:45.

already said that Brexit was not legally binding.

:18:46.:18:55.

Win or lose, Mrs May could end up in a fight with the Scottish

:18:56.:18:58.

Government. Either she will be triggering Article 50 herself or

:18:59.:19:02.

she'll push through an Act of Parliament. Scotland will never

:19:03.:19:08.

agree to that because it goes against their Remain vote. SNPs will

:19:09.:19:12.

not vote for anything that undermines the will of the Scottish

:19:13.:19:15.

people. So a second independence referendum could be on the cards.

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General election, Brexit in total chaos, the consequences of whatever

:19:24.:19:26.

happens in here this week could change the UK forever.

:19:27.:19:34.

Let's speak to Anne-Marie Trevelyan, a Conservative MP and board member

:19:35.:19:38.

Chuka Umunna, a Labour MP, who voted to Remain in the EU.

:19:39.:19:46.

Stephen Gethins, the SNP spokesperson on Europe, Tom Brake,

:19:47.:19:49.

the Liberal Democrat Chief Whip, Peter Whittle, the Deputy Leader

:19:50.:19:54.

of Ukip and from our Cardiff studio Leanne Wood, the leader of Plaid

:19:55.:20:12.

Thank you very much for joining us. I'll come to you first of all

:20:13.:20:21.

Stephen, the SNP argued for Scotland's voice to be heard in the

:20:22.:20:22.

hearings at the Supreme Court. Why is this a father for the courts? The

:20:23.:20:23.

people have had their say? Well, we live in a Parliamentary democracy

:20:24.:20:25.

and since Vote Leave didn't give us any details about what their plans

:20:26.:20:30.

are, it is right we scrutinise their plans. Democracy doesn't begin and

:20:31.:20:31.

end in Westminster. The Westminster Government has legislated for areas

:20:32.:20:31.

of responsibility to the Scottish Parliament. Now, any plans to leave

:20:32.:20:32.

the European Union will have a significant impact on the areas of

:20:33.:20:35.

responsibility of the Scottish Parliament, the same with the Welsh

:20:36.:20:38.

Assembly and in Northern Ireland as well. So it is only right and proper

:20:39.:20:43.

that the Scottish Parliament has a say just as it has had a say on

:20:44.:20:47.

issues when they have been raised in the past. Leanne Wood, the Welsh

:20:48.:20:52.

Government will have its voice heard at this hearing. The Welsh

:20:53.:20:56.

Government's top legal advisor saying similar to the argument that

:20:57.:20:59.

we're hearing from Stephen, when Wales voted in the EU referendum,

:21:00.:21:05.

the margin in favour of leaving was 5%. Why go against that? Well, we're

:21:06.:21:12.

concerned about the how we leave the European Union. We accept that

:21:13.:21:18.

people in Wales voted to leave. So the whether is decided, it is the

:21:19.:21:24.

how is the question and the incompetence and the readilessness

:21:25.:21:27.

that we see from the Tories in Westminster, the lack of a plan,

:21:28.:21:31.

there are grave dangers for Wales. So we're not prepared to give the

:21:32.:21:36.

Tories a blank cheque and just back this no matter what. It is not a

:21:37.:21:43.

case of the rest of us jumping off a clip together. We will vote in the

:21:44.:21:47.

best interests of Wales, just in the same way as Stephen intends to vote

:21:48.:21:52.

in Scotland's best interests. Ann-Marie, the Government is not

:21:53.:21:57.

making clear its position. People are agitating to whether to work out

:21:58.:22:07.

what Brexit means? Well, I think the Government has been clear. The view

:22:08.:22:08.

was taken after the referendum which had a clear mandate for leave that

:22:09.:22:13.

they would set about triggering Article 50... But no one know what

:22:14.:22:17.

is it means? Leaving the EU. The Customs Union and the ECJ authority,

:22:18.:22:21.

taking back control of our migration and all those issues that we have

:22:22.:22:28.

chewed over. That's questions weren't on the ballot paper. Whether

:22:29.:22:31.

we remain or leave the European Union. Absolutely. What follow from

:22:32.:22:42.

that, we have no, you know, the public has not been told about. The

:22:43.:22:49.

Prime Minister is behaving as if we live in some elected dictatorship

:22:50.:22:52.

the she is saying, "Look, the country voted to leave the European

:22:53.:22:56.

Union and therefore, I get to dictate the way in which that

:22:57.:23:01.

happens." Why doesn't the Government let Parliament discuss this? What's

:23:02.:23:06.

the problem? I'm relaxed about this. . . Point we are living in a

:23:07.:23:12.

Parliamentary democracy with an independent judiciary and we are

:23:13.:23:15.

lucky that we live in that environment is that, a member of,

:23:16.:23:20.

you know, our country has challenged what the Government was propose to

:23:21.:23:23.

go do to meet what that referendum result said and say, you know, I

:23:24.:23:26.

think it should go through Parliament. Personally, I have no

:23:27.:23:31.

problem, if that's where we end up. Why is the Government fighting this?

:23:32.:23:37.

No, because it went to the High Court and a decision was taken. The

:23:38.:23:39.

Government is regularly in the law courts on various issues, that's

:23:40.:23:43.

what governments do to test it. But we have said the laws and if our

:23:44.:23:46.

independent judges reach the conclusion in the Supreme Court that

:23:47.:23:50.

we should put through a Bill to trigger Article 50, I'm confident of

:23:51.:23:55.

that and I'm confident we will have that go through because there are

:23:56.:23:58.

too many MPs that would not challenge the will of the people.

:23:59.:24:02.

Does the Government have anything to fear by this going through

:24:03.:24:05.

Parliament? I think not. I think the Government has everything to gain

:24:06.:24:09.

because I think what the Government needs to recognise is this about

:24:10.:24:12.

Parliamentary sovereignty. Parliamentary sovereignty was a

:24:13.:24:17.

feature of the Brexit campaign. Now, what Parliament, what the Government

:24:18.:24:20.

should do is enable Parliament to have its say on this critical

:24:21.:24:24.

matter, in relation to Article 50, what I hope the Government will also

:24:25.:24:29.

concede is that there should be a vote to allow people at the end of

:24:30.:24:32.

the process, but before we leave the European Union to allow people to

:24:33.:24:37.

vote on what the Government, what deal they have secured because, of

:24:38.:24:41.

course, as Chuka Umunna was saying, people voted to leave the EU, but

:24:42.:24:45.

what they did not vote for, because it was not explained and not on the

:24:46.:24:48.

table was what position the Government was going to adopt on a

:24:49.:24:51.

host of issues from the single market, through to the Customs

:24:52.:25:01.

Union, through to the freedom of movement. I want to let Peter come

:25:02.:25:05.

in. What you're saying is people are too thick to understand what they're

:25:06.:25:08.

being asked. People knew exactly what they were voting for. They knew

:25:09.:25:11.

exactly. What that meant was coming out of the EU, control of our our

:25:12.:25:17.

borders and own sovereigntry. You talk about Parliamentary

:25:18.:25:19.

sovereignty, Tom. You didn't care about that for years and years. Hang

:25:20.:25:33.

on. During the Scottish independence referendum there was a 670 page

:25:34.:25:37.

white paper. Many people didn't agree with that and I accept that

:25:38.:25:41.

and we lost. Plus there were plans for consulting with all the

:25:42.:25:44.

Parliamentary leaders in the event of a Yes vote and to be fair to

:25:45.:25:47.

David Cameron, he sat down with Alex Salmond and he hammered out an

:25:48.:25:51.

Edinburgh agreement so the question of legality was dealt with. Vote

:25:52.:26:01.

Leave carried out a gross error of irresponsibility. Vote Leave was

:26:02.:26:06.

chaotic and the way it has been dealt with by the Government is

:26:07.:26:10.

utterly chaotic. They are leading us down a road that will have an impact

:26:11.:26:14.

on jobs and the economy and every single person. The referendum was a

:26:15.:26:20.

binding, binary question, Vote Leave was the campaign group which was

:26:21.:26:24.

given the authority to run the campaign to leave which was similar

:26:25.:26:30.

to leave the EU and so leaving the single market, even the Prime

:26:31.:26:35.

Minister who was fighting for remain said that's what it meant. Very

:26:36.:26:39.

clear. If there was one key plenl the Leave campaign made if we leave

:26:40.:26:43.

the European Union ?350 million extra per week would go to the NHS.

:26:44.:26:47.

That was something that five current Cabinet Ministers went around the

:26:48.:26:50.

country telling your viewers would happen and we have seen precious

:26:51.:26:56.

little indication... Is the only way now to be absolutely clear what the

:26:57.:27:00.

people want is to have a general election. We have had the

:27:01.:27:05.

by-election in Richmond, Tom Brake, your party has an MP saying she has

:27:06.:27:14.

a mandate to vote against Article 50 because that's been clearly been

:27:15.:27:17.

said by the constituents there? What the by-election does is tell our

:27:18.:27:20.

Prime Minister that she is supposed to be representing the whole of the

:27:21.:27:25.

country. She seems to have conveniently forgotten that 48% of

:27:26.:27:28.

people voted to remain and she also appears to have forgotten that in

:27:29.:27:35.

that 52% who voted to leave, there were large numbers of people who

:27:36.:27:38.

actually wanted for instance to stay in the single market. She seems to

:27:39.:27:41.

have completely disregarded that and is running on a hard Brexit agenda,

:27:42.:27:47.

a Conservative hard Brexit agenda which will do our economy a huge

:27:48.:27:53.

amount of... Tom, you could be clear by what you mean by a single market?

:27:54.:27:59.

How mean the internal market of trade? Is that what you are talking

:28:00.:28:02.

about? For me, there is control of our borders? There is the ECJ, a

:28:03.:28:06.

trading union or atry market agreement. What is it you talk

:28:07.:28:08.

about? When you say the single market? What do you mean? I don't

:28:09.:28:15.

know what you mean. What I'm saying to you, your party is in power. Your

:28:16.:28:23.

party has got to explain to people what it is they're going to

:28:24.:28:24.

negotiate. Well, that's what we'll do. We're going into the wider

:28:25.:28:30.

arguments. I want to bring in Leanne Wood. Leanne Wood... If we're

:28:31.:28:39.

looking at the claims that were made during the referendum then a lot was

:28:40.:28:44.

said about the Norway model. Now the Norway model retains our membership

:28:45.:28:49.

of the single market. It keeps an element of free movement of people,

:28:50.:28:54.

although there is an ability to restrict that by making availial a

:28:55.:28:58.

place for people who have a job. Now, that's something that we could

:28:59.:29:01.

look at as something that would be a good model for Wales, it wouldn't

:29:02.:29:07.

put at risk the 200,000 jobs that rely on our access and membership to

:29:08.:29:13.

the single market... That's just membership of the EU. No, it is not.

:29:14.:29:16.

Norway is not a member of the EU. They are outside the EU, but they

:29:17.:29:21.

are inside the single market. Sorry to interrupt you. This is something

:29:22.:29:27.

we should consider for the future. Hang on. I just want to ask you, how

:29:28.:29:33.

you think, how you think this is playing in Europe? We're hearing

:29:34.:29:37.

from Europe that we are looking at what's going on here and they are

:29:38.:29:40.

saying, "There is no clear strategy." There is a new lead are

:29:41.:29:49.

of Ukip. But in the end if we want to adopt the best deal for the UK,

:29:50.:30:02.

which I think all of us want here, we have different views on what that

:30:03.:30:05.

might look like. You have to illustrate there is a self interest

:30:06.:30:09.

for the other 27 member states to give us the deal we want. So we have

:30:10.:30:12.

got to put enough on the table that shows actually... Take the country,

:30:13.:30:13.

how important, it is important, isn't it, to take the country

:30:14.:30:15.

obviously, the 52% who voted out to get it right? Yes, absolutely. This

:30:16.:30:23.

is why, in terms of what was intended by the No vote, the vote to

:30:24.:30:29.

leave, it isn't clear what people wanted in terms of the detail beyond

:30:30.:30:32.

leaving which is why it is important that Parliament gets a say, but with

:30:33.:30:36.

our 27 other EU partners, it is not just about immigration and the

:30:37.:30:39.

economy that we're talking about, there is a lot more that Britain can

:30:40.:30:44.

offer. For example, co-operation on security and intelligence. We have

:30:45.:30:48.

superior intelligence services to most of the member states. That's

:30:49.:30:56.

why we should incorporate? Part of the thing you say to them when

:30:57.:30:59.

you're trying it get a deal, that's one of the things you get from us

:31:00.:31:03.

and we can offer you. We are at the start of a week-long process on the

:31:04.:31:08.

hearings at the Supreme Court. So hopefully we'll hear your views

:31:09.:31:11.

again and you can come back. You're welcome. There is plenty to talk

:31:12.:31:14.

about. Thank you very much indeed for joining us and let us know your

:31:15.:31:16.

thoughts as well. Italy is facing a day of political

:31:17.:31:21.

and financial turbulence following the defeat

:31:22.:31:25.

of Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's He will resign, and his

:31:26.:31:27.

imminent departure has The developments are likely

:31:28.:31:31.

to overshadow a meeting of Eurozone A landmark legal hearing begins

:31:32.:31:35.

today which will determine who has the authority to begin the process

:31:36.:31:41.

of the UK leaving The Supreme Court will hear

:31:42.:31:44.

an appeal from the Government, which believes it has the right

:31:45.:31:51.

to trigger Article 50 The 11 justices will meet

:31:52.:31:53.

for the first time in the court's history in a hearing

:31:54.:31:57.

which will last four days. Public institutions have too often

:31:58.:31:59.

ignored, or even condoned divisive and harmful religious practices

:32:00.:32:05.

for fear of being labelled racist, according to

:32:06.:32:07.

a government-commissioned review. In her 200-page report,

:32:08.:32:14.

Dame Louise Casey suggests among other things that

:32:15.:32:16.

immigrants intending to settle in Britain should take

:32:17.:32:19.

an "integration oath". Fleet Town Football Club

:32:20.:32:23.

says a former coach accused of abusing youth players

:32:24.:32:26.

at Southampton FC in the 1980s The BBC has spoken to six former

:32:27.:32:30.

footballers who have made Until recently, he worked

:32:31.:32:35.

with Fleet Town's adult first team That's a summary of the latest BBC

:32:36.:32:39.

News - more at 10.00. Bournemouth produced one

:32:40.:32:48.

of the comebacks of the season with less than half an hour left,

:32:49.:32:52.

but fought back to win 4-3. Afterwards, Liverpool manager

:32:53.:32:58.

Jurgen Klopp said Bournemouth Elsewhere, Everton and

:32:59.:33:00.

Manchester United drew 1-1. There was another remarkable

:33:01.:33:06.

comeback in the second Non-league Curzon Ashton led

:33:07.:33:08.

Wimbledon 3-0 with just 10 minutes left, but their hopes were shattered

:33:09.:33:13.

when the League One side Elsewhere, National League

:33:14.:33:15.

side Barrow beat League from Ronnie O'Sullivan

:33:16.:33:19.

to win his second UK Championship Selby had led 6-2 after the first

:33:20.:33:27.

session and held his nerve to

:33:28.:33:31.

eventually win 10-7. And Wasps have moved up to second

:33:32.:33:36.

in Rugby Union's Premiership. They're now just a point

:33:37.:33:38.

behind leaders Saracens after a comfortable

:33:39.:33:40.

win at Worcester. It's now more than two weeks

:33:41.:33:50.

since several former football players came forward

:33:51.:33:54.

with allegations of historic child Since then, the inquiry into child

:33:55.:33:56.

sex abuse in football has broadened in scope beyond what anyone

:33:57.:34:02.

could have imagined. with allegations of historical child

:34:03.:34:04.

abuse suffered at football clubs. And 18 police forces

:34:05.:34:10.

are involved in investigations. In the latest development,

:34:11.:34:15.

Fleet Town football club has confirmed that a man

:34:16.:34:19.

who was on the coaching staff, despite being at the centre

:34:20.:34:21.

of historical sex abuse allegations, Bob Higgins, who was a former youth

:34:22.:34:24.

development officer at Southampton, has been named by a number of former

:34:25.:34:29.

youth players, who claimed to police Here's what we know

:34:30.:34:33.

so far about the inquiry. BBC South's Home Affairs

:34:34.:35:56.

correspondent, Emma Vardy, is at Southampton football club

:35:57.:35:58.

for us. Talk us through these latest

:35:59.:36:11.

allegations? Well, in recent days a number of former Southampton players

:36:12.:36:14.

have been coming forward alleging that Bob Higgins abused them. I

:36:15.:36:19.

myself have spoken to six former Southampton youth team players who

:36:20.:36:24.

have described their allegations. In the '80s, Bob Higgins was the youth

:36:25.:36:28.

development click here. He had a lot of power over careers. He was

:36:29.:36:31.

someone that schoolboy footballers looked up to and he brought a number

:36:32.:36:38.

of players into the club's ranks. In 1992, Higgins faced charges for

:36:39.:36:42.

sexual abuse. He was cleared of those on the direction of a judge.

:36:43.:36:46.

But five years later, a letter was sent to schools and youth groups,

:36:47.:36:50.

and in its police and social services said they had concerns that

:36:51.:36:55.

Bob Higgins pose a risk to children. Despite this, later on Bob Higgins

:36:56.:36:59.

went on to join the coaching team at Fleet Town football club with their

:37:00.:37:06.

first team. And Fleet Town have said that they did not carry out any

:37:07.:37:12.

criminal records check on him? That's right, Fleet Town said last

:37:13.:37:15.

night that Bob Higgins is no longer involved with the club. They

:37:16.:37:19.

explained that no police checks were made when he joined, because his

:37:20.:37:23.

role did not involve working with children. But the FA has said that

:37:24.:37:28.

these checks are not required within what the FA calls open age football.

:37:29.:37:33.

If unenhanced cheque had been made, it is likely that it would have

:37:34.:37:37.

flagged up those concerns that were raised in that letter in 1997.

:37:38.:37:42.

Meanwhile, Southampton Football Club has given its full support to any

:37:43.:37:48.

police investigation for however long it takes.

:37:49.:37:51.

In a moment, we'll talk to Dean Radford, who Emma Vardy

:37:52.:37:53.

was just referring to as being the latest former football

:37:54.:37:56.

He's waived his right to anonymity to talk to us today.

:37:57.:38:01.

But as we've just heard, Bob Higgins was charged with six

:38:02.:38:04.

counts of indecent assault of young boys.

:38:05.:38:06.

In 1991, Mr Higgins was acquitted of all counts on the direction

:38:07.:38:12.

of the trial judge and has always denied

:38:13.:38:14.

Despite this, Hampshire Police and social services

:38:15.:38:18.

were so concerned that they alerted local youth groups in the area

:38:19.:38:21.

Until recently, he was still working as a first time coach at Fleet Town.

:38:22.:38:27.

The club now says he has left the club.

:38:28.:38:33.

Prior to joining Fleet, Bob Higgins was a youth development

:38:34.:38:35.

officer at Southampton, responsible for trying

:38:36.:38:37.

to discover the future stars of English football.

:38:38.:38:43.

The skills they are working on in the gym give them the facility to

:38:44.:38:51.

practise with. And hopefully, they will develop into better players.

:38:52.:38:54.

The Fleet Town chairman Steve Cantle sent us this statement:

:38:55.:39:00.

"The Fleet Town Football Club has received no notification from either

:39:01.:39:03.

the FA or the Police in respect of allegations made about anyone

:39:04.:39:06.

Bob Higgins is no longer involved at the Fleet Town Football Club.

:39:07.:39:10.

The club can confirm that Bob Higgins has previously been

:39:11.:39:12.

involved at the club at different times, on an informal

:39:13.:39:15.

unpaid basis as a coach for our adult 1st team side.

:39:16.:39:19.

His involvement was limited to assisting the coaching team

:39:20.:39:21.

with the adult first-team squad of players.

:39:22.:39:23.

Our first team is currently the club's only side."

:39:24.:39:31.

We can talk now to Dean Radford. You were 13 when you were asked to go to

:39:32.:39:42.

Southampton for some trials and practice. For a boy of 13 who had

:39:43.:39:47.

dreams of becoming a football star, how exciting was that? Yes,

:39:48.:39:55.

basically, it was the opportunity of a lifetime. It was something that as

:39:56.:40:01.

a child, you just want to become a professional footballer. And this

:40:02.:40:07.

was the opportunity you saw in front of you and you felt so lucky and

:40:08.:40:11.

excited, and you wanted to embrace it. How did you regard the coaches

:40:12.:40:19.

and the people around you in that environment? Basically, Bob Higgins,

:40:20.:40:25.

who I can name now, he helped so much power. In the football club,

:40:26.:40:33.

there wasn't a panel of selectors or judges. It was basically Bob Higgins

:40:34.:40:39.

that made the decision and held that power. He had something that every

:40:40.:40:45.

child wanted. And they wanted it badly. So he had that power and he

:40:46.:40:51.

made that decision on his own. When you were 14, you formally signed as

:40:52.:40:55.

an associated schoolboy, which took the club's commitment to you to

:40:56.:40:58.

another level. You were travelling to the club from your home in

:40:59.:41:03.

Bristol and at that stage, Bob Higgins started to ask you to stay

:41:04.:41:07.

over at his home. How did you feel about that? To be honest, at first I

:41:08.:41:15.

was excited. I felt privileged. It was like an honour to have this guy

:41:16.:41:20.

who I looked up to that was going to decide my future for me to open his

:41:21.:41:24.

doors to me and take me into his home. And you were not the only

:41:25.:41:31.

player staying at his house. How did you see him behaving around other

:41:32.:41:37.

players? As soon as I started to stay at his home, that was when my

:41:38.:41:43.

eyes were opened to the touching on the cuddling and the affection that

:41:44.:41:47.

he was giving towards myself and other players. But again, it was

:41:48.:41:56.

something that I sort of embraced, because when he wanted me to be part

:41:57.:41:59.

of that and he told me the reasons why, then you believed him. His

:42:00.:42:06.

reasons were that I needed to trust him, and we could go a long way

:42:07.:42:11.

together and he could make me a star, and that was what you

:42:12.:42:14.

believed. And you went along with it. When you talk about the touching

:42:15.:42:18.

and cuddling, described more about what you mean by that and what you

:42:19.:42:27.

saw in the house? Well, just in the house alone, you would be cuddled up

:42:28.:42:39.

with him on the settee, but you would also... It just wasn't normal

:42:40.:42:43.

when you look back. At the time, you it and you felt wanted by him, but

:42:44.:42:48.

then it led to other things. At the time, I didn't question it. I felt

:42:49.:42:52.

grateful, because he would go to bed and then he would call me into his

:42:53.:42:55.

bedroom and I would go into his bedroom and it would be pitch black,

:42:56.:42:59.

and I would stand at the end of his bed while he was in bed, asking me

:43:00.:43:06.

questions about my training and I have to tell him how much I want to

:43:07.:43:10.

be a professional and how far I was prepared to go, would I run through

:43:11.:43:15.

brick walls for him? It was like he was grooming me. You did ultimately

:43:16.:43:23.

make allegations to police about the way he treated you. Those

:43:24.:43:29.

allegations then went to court and on the directions of the judge, he

:43:30.:43:34.

was cleared. Tell us more about the specific allegations you made? I was

:43:35.:43:41.

told at the time that I couldn't discuss the other things that were

:43:42.:43:48.

going on at the home in his bedroom, in the car, even. The one incident

:43:49.:43:54.

that happened to me was on a residential schoolboy which, where I

:43:55.:43:59.

developed an injury in the bottom of my spine and he asked me back to the

:44:00.:44:14.

bedroom. And he told me he was going to massage the bruising from the

:44:15.:44:20.

bottom of my spine. So I had to pull my shorts down, and lay down. I lay

:44:21.:44:32.

face down, and he basically inserted his fingers into my backside. That

:44:33.:44:39.

went on for about 20 or 30 seconds. As I mentioned, this is an

:44:40.:44:45.

allegation that went to court and on the judge's orders, he was cleared

:44:46.:44:53.

of the allegations against him. Did that mean that you subsequently put

:44:54.:44:59.

behind you the sorts of things you are talking about? Not at all. There

:45:00.:45:04.

are certain things I can't talk about about the court case. But

:45:05.:45:12.

after that, I was 21 when I went to court. You think you are going to

:45:13.:45:19.

get over it and move on and have your own children. But that doesn't

:45:20.:45:26.

happen. I am a happy guy, I have a fantastic wife, fantastic family and

:45:27.:45:31.

children, everything is amazing. But he scarred me. And as I get older,

:45:32.:45:38.

it gets worse to try and forget about, because the time is going on

:45:39.:45:42.

and you think to yourself, I am not going to forget about it. And there

:45:43.:45:46.

are times when I go very dark places. Obviously, around now, it is

:45:47.:45:54.

not a good time, because it is all out there. But I'm glad it is out,

:45:55.:45:57.

because it is something I have to deal with burying it.

:45:58.:46:35.

You don't want to know that other people have been affected by I have.

:46:36.:46:44.

By the things that have gone. We would like to encourage more people

:46:45.:46:49.

to come forward. Thank you very much indeed for

:46:50.:46:53.

talking to us, Dean Radford, thank you.

:46:54.:47:03.

The civil war in Syria is almost six-years-old.

:47:04.:47:11.

The vicious fighting amongst the various factions has led to more

:47:12.:47:12.

than 11 million people being forced from their homes.

:47:13.:47:13.

The International Medical Corps has been interviewing some

:47:14.:47:14.

of those refugees in Turkey about what precious possession

:47:15.:47:15.

they grabbed before they fled, in work funded by the European

:47:16.:47:17.

My name is Kotha Johani from a village in the Homs countryside.

:47:18.:48:35.

Another child of mine, they took him by force.

:48:36.:48:44.

They said he was with Al-Nusra Front and arrested him.

:48:45.:48:45.

I haven't heard anything about him for four years.

:48:46.:48:51.

I came to Turkey and it's been so hard.

:48:52.:48:59.

I love coffee and my grandfather and uncles and husband loved it too.

:49:00.:49:01.

This coffee pot I took everywhere, if I went on a picnic, everywhere.

:49:02.:49:09.

It stayed with me and it stays all the time.

:49:10.:49:18.

When the airstrike happened I was sitting in the house.

:49:19.:49:21.

We were drinking coffee and I went to wash the plates and cups

:49:22.:49:27.

and I immediately put it in a black bag.

:49:28.:49:31.

I asked my son to find a car so we could leave.

:49:32.:49:39.

I like coffee more than food, more than anything.

:49:40.:49:59.

If it's morning or night, I'll still drink coffee.

:50:00.:50:08.

My name is Layla and I'm 22 years old.

:50:09.:50:13.

The day that I left, it was in 2014, it was in October.

:50:14.:50:27.

In that time, the Islamic State, they were about to control the area

:50:28.:50:32.

I heard from the radio they were saying they are coming,

:50:33.:50:41.

so it means that it's the time that we have to think to run

:50:42.:50:45.

Me and my family, we just tried to find a way to run.

:50:46.:51:00.

The moment we decided to leave, my father was calling us

:51:01.:51:01.

to ride the car quickly, we have to move now.

:51:02.:51:04.

I just took some of my fashion books.

:51:05.:51:12.

In that moment, when I took it, nothing came to my mind.

:51:13.:51:15.

Only my fashion books came to my mind, that

:51:16.:51:17.

I have to save them, because all my ideas

:51:18.:51:19.

I'm helping my family and I can't focus more on designing

:51:20.:51:29.

like I was doing before but sometimes when I have free time,

:51:30.:51:33.

I definitely go back to design something.

:51:34.:51:41.

When I hold my books and when I check it,

:51:42.:51:44.

I remember all the moments I was painting clothes,

:51:45.:51:46.

I was designing, and how it was coming to my mind.

:51:47.:51:51.

It makes me feel like I go back in time.

:51:52.:51:54.

I go back to the time that I made those designs.

:51:55.:51:56.

It makes me feel happy and sad at the same time.

:51:57.:52:02.

Happy because I see my designs as something very nice.

:52:03.:52:04.

Actually, I am proud of each design I am making because it looks

:52:05.:52:08.

like a different thing, a modern thing.

:52:09.:52:11.

And sad because it makes me remember the sad moments

:52:12.:52:13.

I was living in Syria, designing at the same time.

:52:14.:52:28.

The bombers came and the army came and destroyed our house.

:52:29.:53:03.

They shot fire and destroyed all my toys.

:53:04.:53:12.

They didn't leave a single piece of them.

:53:13.:53:18.

As the plane was coming and bombing, I was scared.

:53:19.:53:27.

I took the Spiderman costume and I put it in the bag and I left.

:53:28.:53:47.

I will be a fighter and go fight Bashar.

:53:48.:54:00.

When I have the costume, I feel strong.

:54:01.:54:12.

I'm from Hama, from a town called Halfaya.

:54:13.:54:34.

I was a painter and decorator in Syria and from that work I bought

:54:35.:54:37.

The shop was going well and I had good customers.

:54:38.:54:46.

They came and went until the beginning of the revolution.

:54:47.:55:00.

The bombs would sometimes hit our village.

:55:01.:55:02.

One day, the shelling in our village came early

:55:03.:55:07.

I took my family, my son and my wife, to the basement.

:55:08.:55:21.

The only thing I brought with me was my brother's shirt.

:55:22.:55:41.

He wasn't just my brother but my friend.

:55:42.:56:04.

He was everything a friend should be.

:56:05.:56:06.

We would chat about anything and everything.

:56:07.:56:11.

When I hold the shirt, I feel sad and happy.

:56:12.:56:29.

I feel happy it's something from him.

:56:30.:56:32.

I don't know how to explain what I think but I feel happy

:56:33.:56:42.

I hope my children's future is better than ours.

:56:43.:56:53.

I hope that God sends them nicer days, better than the life we left.

:56:54.:57:11.

Hello, my name is Nur and I'm ten years old.

:57:12.:57:26.

When I left Syria I took my doctor's kit.

:57:27.:57:32.

Her name is Lucy but I couldn't take her with me because we left

:57:33.:57:38.

Lucy was my friend from when I was little.

:57:39.:57:49.

When she got sick, I took care of her and gave her medicine.

:57:50.:58:02.

When we came here, I got another doll to replace Lucy.

:58:03.:58:10.

I was sitting with my mum in the living room, watching TV.

:58:11.:58:14.

They ran in and said, "Grab the bags.

:58:15.:58:33.

We were only meant to be in Turkey for three months,

:58:34.:58:45.

But we didn't go back and it made me cry.

:58:46.:58:56.

Now the weather. Good morning. It has been a frosty start to the day

:58:57.:59:48.

today. Temperatures at the moment are still minus nine Celsius in

:59:49.:00:20.

parts of Scotland and minus three in parts of England and we've got

:00:21.:00:45.

patchy fog. Welcome to the programme

:00:46.:00:51.

if you've just joined us. Coming up before 11: Who has

:00:52.:00:53.

the final say about when we leave the European Union -

:00:54.:00:56.

the Government or Parliament? This morning, the biggest

:00:57.:00:58.

constitutional case for a generation gets under way in the Supreme Court

:00:59.:01:00.

- we've been hearing People knew exactly

:01:01.:01:02.

what they were voting for. What that meant was coming out

:01:03.:01:06.

of the EU, control of our we live in some sort

:01:07.:01:09.

of elected dictatorship. She's saying the country voted

:01:10.:01:14.

to leave the European Union, and therefore "I get to dictate

:01:15.:01:16.

the way in which that happens". A former Southampton youth coach was

:01:17.:01:21.

able to keep working as a coach recently after he was not police

:01:22.:01:24.

checked for his new job. Bob Higgins was cleared of sexual abuse charges

:01:25.:01:27.

in 1992, but had been the subject of a police warning about his

:01:28.:01:30.

behaviour. One former player at Southampton told us he was abused by

:01:31.:01:36.

him as a boy. He scarred me, and as I get older, it gets worse to try

:01:37.:01:41.

and forget about, because the time is going on and you say to yourself,

:01:42.:01:45.

I am not going to forget about it. There are times when I go very dark

:01:46.:01:50.

places. For anyone who has experienced sexual abuse as a young

:01:51.:01:54.

footballer, the NSPCC has every appliance which offers advice and

:01:55.:01:56.

support. Are local communities becoming more

:01:57.:02:07.

and more racially divided? A major report on integration

:02:08.:02:12.

in Britain says they are, and that public authorities aren't

:02:13.:02:15.

tackling the problem out of a fear We'll be discussing the report's

:02:16.:02:18.

findings later this hour. A landmark legal hearing begins

:02:19.:02:23.

today which will determine who has the authority to begin the process

:02:24.:02:32.

of the UK leaving The Supreme Court will hear

:02:33.:02:35.

an appeal from the Government which believes it has the right

:02:36.:02:40.

to trigger Article 50 The 11 justices will meet

:02:41.:02:42.

for the first time in the court's history in a hearing

:02:43.:02:47.

which will last four days. Italy is facing a day of political

:02:48.:02:49.

and financial turbulence following the defeat

:02:50.:02:56.

of Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's He will resign, and his

:02:57.:02:58.

imminent departure has It is feared that a much-needed

:02:59.:03:03.

bailouts will now be more difficult. Public institutions have too often

:03:04.:03:16.

ignored, or even condoned divisive and harmful religious practices

:03:17.:03:19.

for fear of being labelled racist, according to

:03:20.:03:21.

a government-commissioned review. In her 200 page report,

:03:22.:03:22.

Dame Louise Casey suggests among other things that

:03:23.:03:25.

immigrants intending to settle in Britain should take

:03:26.:03:27.

an "integration oath". We have to, frankly,

:03:28.:03:29.

emancipate people in this country who've lived here now for more

:03:30.:03:34.

than five or ten years, still can't speak English, still have

:03:35.:03:37.

no option of a job. We are keeping them behind not only

:03:38.:03:40.

in terms of poverty, Fleet Town Football Club

:03:41.:03:43.

says a former coach accused of abusing youth players

:03:44.:03:49.

at Southampton FC in the 1980s The BBC has spoken to six former

:03:50.:03:53.

footballers who have made Until recently, he worked

:03:54.:03:58.

with Fleet Town's adult first team Meanwhile, three former footballers

:03:59.:04:03.

who lifted the lid on alleged widespread child sexual abuse

:04:04.:04:13.

in the game have announced they're forming an independent organisation

:04:14.:04:15.

to support other potential victims. Andy Woodward, Steve Walters

:04:16.:04:18.

and Chris Unsworth want the "Offside Trust" to represent

:04:19.:04:20.

players and their families. Since they spoke out,

:04:21.:04:24.

hundreds more alleged 18 police forces are now

:04:25.:04:26.

investigating related claims. The US President-elect

:04:27.:04:35.

Donald Trump has attacked the policies of China in a series

:04:36.:04:36.

of strongly-worded tweets. He accused Beijing of currency

:04:37.:04:39.

manipulation and flexing Last week, Mr Trump was criticised

:04:40.:04:41.

for taking a phone call from the President of Taiwan,

:04:42.:04:45.

an island the US hasn't had diplomatic ties

:04:46.:04:48.

with for almost 40 years. A German court has sentenced a train

:04:49.:05:09.

controller to jail after a train crash in Bavaria. He made a

:05:10.:05:13.

signalling error and dialled the wrong emergency number. He also said

:05:14.:05:17.

he was plain computer games on his mobile phone at the time. Two

:05:18.:05:22.

commuter trains collided on attack near the Bavarian town in February,

:05:23.:05:25.

killing 12 people and injuring 89 others.

:05:26.:05:32.

Last week on this programme, we spoke to Joe Bartley,

:05:33.:05:35.

an 89-year-old who had put an ad in a local paper looking for work

:05:36.:05:38.

Well - it's worked - as he's now started his new job.

:05:39.:05:43.

Joe was met with cheers from customers when he clocked

:05:44.:05:45.

on for the first time at this cafe bar in Paignton in Devon.

:05:46.:05:48.

He had become a bit of a celebrity after advertising for work.

:05:49.:05:51.

He spent his first day serving up roast dinners and mince pies.

:05:52.:05:54.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

:05:55.:05:59.

Bournemouth got their first ever win over Liverpool and they did it

:06:00.:06:05.

with one of the comebacks of the Premier League season.

:06:06.:06:11.

Eddie Howe's side recovered from 2-0 and then 3-1

:06:12.:06:13.

down, as Nathan Ake's goal in injury time gave them a 4-3 victory.

:06:14.:06:17.

Liverpool are four points behind league leaders Chelsea.

:06:18.:06:19.

The win moves Bournemouth up to tenth in what was another

:06:20.:06:22.

For everyone involved, it is massive. It makes all the hard work

:06:23.:06:33.

and dedication the players give to their craft, it makes for a special

:06:34.:06:39.

day. And for the first time ever, Bournemouth have beaten Liverpool?

:06:40.:06:42.

That is in line with our history. These days are huge for us. We had

:06:43.:06:46.

never been in the Premier League before this season. We are doing

:06:47.:06:50.

firsts all the time. A late goal also scuppered

:06:51.:06:51.

Manchester United's hopes Zlatan Ibrahimovic put them

:06:52.:06:53.

ahead with a lovely lob. But United manager Jose Mourinho

:06:54.:06:56.

was criticised for bringing on Marouane Fellaini

:06:57.:06:58.

late in the game. As the midfielder gave away

:06:59.:07:00.

a penalty with a clumsy challenge Leighton Baines' spot kick earned

:07:01.:07:03.

Everton a draw. The point does lift United up

:07:04.:07:06.

to sixth, but they're 13 points off And afterwards, Mourinho was asked

:07:07.:07:09.

what exactly his thinking I thought you would know more about

:07:10.:07:27.

football than you do, because the answer is obvious. Everton is not a

:07:28.:07:34.

passing team any more, like they were. Everton is a team that plays

:07:35.:07:38.

direct. And when you have on the bench a player with two meters, you

:07:39.:07:42.

play the player in front of the defensive line to help the team to

:07:43.:07:43.

win the match. There was drama in

:07:44.:07:46.

yesterday's FA Cup action as non-league Curzon Ashton also

:07:47.:07:51.

suffered late heartbreak against League One AFC Wimbledon

:07:52.:07:52.

- losing 4-3. Curzon were 3-0 up

:07:53.:07:55.

after 80 minutes, thanks But then came four goals

:07:56.:07:57.

in a remarkable 10-minute spell, Tom Elliott scoring the winner

:07:58.:08:01.

to send the Dons into What a moment, though,

:08:02.:08:03.

for Barrow from the National League. They won 2-1 at League

:08:04.:08:09.

One Bristol Rovers - Byron Harrison, the scorer

:08:10.:08:11.

of both Barrow goals. World number one Mark Selby has won

:08:12.:08:19.

the UK Snooker Championship He beat five-time winner

:08:20.:08:22.

Ronnie O'Sullivan in what was one of the greatest finals

:08:23.:08:25.

at the York Barbican O'Sullivan fought back from five frames

:08:26.:08:28.

down to trail by one, but Selby hit three centuries

:08:29.:08:30.

to clinch a 10-7 victory. He's only the sixth player

:08:31.:08:32.

to win the World and UK To play Ronnie in any game, not just

:08:33.:08:52.

a major final, but any much, it gives you a buzz and makes you want

:08:53.:08:57.

to play well. I knew I had to be on top of my game because if I only

:08:58.:09:01.

played at 50 or 60%, I would not have won. He and Stephen Hendry two

:09:02.:09:04.

of the greatest players to ever play the game. So as I say, to play him

:09:05.:09:10.

in major finals, I have played in now in the world final, the Masters

:09:11.:09:14.

final and the UK final, so it is a fantastic feeling.

:09:15.:09:15.

England's netball team lost their three-match series

:09:16.:09:18.

with Jamaica 2-1 after defeat in the decisive Test in Coventry.

:09:19.:09:24.

Tracy Neville's side took an early lead, but Jamaica were too strong

:09:25.:09:27.

in a tense final quarter and won it 64-57.

:09:28.:09:29.

And Paralympic champion Gordon Reid lost in the final

:09:30.:09:33.

of the Wheelchair Tennis Masters in London, but he'd already secured

:09:34.:09:35.

world number one status to end a memorable year.

:09:36.:09:38.

He was beaten in three sets by defending champion

:09:39.:09:42.

Nonetheless, Reid was still happy with a year that contained two

:09:43.:09:46.

Paralympic medals and two major singles titles.

:09:47.:09:56.

And that is all the sport for now. Plenty more later.

:09:57.:10:02.

Back now to the Supreme Court, where judges are today starting

:10:03.:10:06.

a landmark legal hearing over the Government's argument that it

:10:07.:10:08.

has the right to start the process of leaving the EU

:10:09.:10:11.

Last month, judges at the High Court ruled that ministers needed to seek

:10:12.:10:15.

the approval of parliament before triggering the process

:10:16.:10:17.

But the Government is appealing that decision.

:10:18.:10:21.

11 judges will hear four days of evidence

:10:22.:10:24.

If you're still unsure about why this is all happening

:10:25.:10:32.

and what it means for you, here's a reminder.

:10:33.:10:38.

Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty lays down the rules for any country

:10:39.:10:43.

Once it's triggered, it starts a two-year clock running,

:10:44.:10:50.

But the argument has become about how, under the law,

:10:51.:11:03.

The new Prime Minister's message was clear that:

:11:04.:11:08.

We will invoke Article 50 no later than the end of March next year.

:11:09.:11:14.

She's a businesswoman who, with others, decided

:11:15.:11:24.

to launch the legal case against the government.

:11:25.:11:28.

Their argument is that even though the country voted for Brexit,

:11:29.:11:33.

Theresa May and her Cabinet does not have the legal power

:11:34.:11:36.

to trigger Article 50, that only legislation,

:11:37.:11:41.

an act of Parliament, can give her that authority.

:11:42.:11:45.

Last month, Gina Miller won her case at the High Court.

:11:46.:11:51.

It's about our United Kingdom and all our futures.

:11:52.:11:53.

It threw the whole Brexit process into turmoil.

:11:54.:11:59.

Is the government's Brexit plan now in chaos?

:12:00.:12:01.

It sparked talk of a snap general election and the three High Court

:12:02.:12:04.

judges were plastered all over the papers.

:12:05.:12:09.

So the Government's appealing at the Supreme Court.

:12:10.:12:16.

The Government will appeal to all 11 of the court's justices.

:12:17.:12:23.

It's the first time they've ever all presided over a case.

:12:24.:12:31.

They're independent and ruling on a point of law, but there have

:12:32.:12:34.

been calls for the President of the Supreme Court,

:12:35.:12:36.

Lord Neuberger, to step aside after reports his wife had tweeted

:12:37.:12:39.

that Brexit votes were just protest votes.

:12:40.:12:48.

And Deputy President Lady Hale has already said that Brexit

:12:49.:12:51.

Win or lose, Mrs May could end up in a fight

:12:52.:13:00.

Either she'll be triggering Article 50 herself, or she will push

:13:01.:13:06.

Scotland will never agree to that, because it goes

:13:07.:13:12.

SNP MPs in the House of Commons will certainly not vote

:13:13.:13:17.

for anything that undermines the will or the interests

:13:18.:13:19.

So a second independence referendum could be on the cards.

:13:20.:13:23.

The consequences of whatever happens in here this week

:13:24.:13:33.

Well, keeping an eye on all the goings on is our legal

:13:34.:13:42.

eagle Clive Coleman, who's outside the Supreme

:13:43.:13:44.

We have heard how important this hearing is, and I see that 24,000

:13:45.:13:58.

pages of written submissions have been put before the court, which

:13:59.:14:01.

gives you a sense of the scale of it. It is enormous. In that package,

:14:02.:14:08.

you heard the broad strokes, but today the Supreme Court will get

:14:09.:14:11.

into the real nitty-gritty of the legal arguments. Let's first say

:14:12.:14:16.

what this case is not about. This is not about the merits of whether the

:14:17.:14:22.

UK should leave the EU or not. That was decided beyond question by the

:14:23.:14:28.

referendum. This is about determining whether legal power,

:14:29.:14:35.

under our -- about where the legal power lies to trigger Article 50.

:14:36.:14:42.

Does it lie with ministers, using executive powers that derived from

:14:43.:14:45.

the crown from times when kings and queens could do pretty much what

:14:46.:14:50.

they wanted to do? Whether it can be triggered with those powers, or

:14:51.:14:53.

whether it needs the authority of the representatives of the people

:14:54.:14:57.

who sit over there in Parliament through an act of Parliament. Let me

:14:58.:15:02.

explain. It is quite a complicated argument. Let me explain what I

:15:03.:15:05.

think we'll be at the heart of today's hearing. It is all about the

:15:06.:15:11.

rights that were given to citizens, to you and I, when under the 1972

:15:12.:15:16.

European Communities Act, which brought us into what is now the EU,

:15:17.:15:22.

rights were given to UK citizens. A lot of the argument today will be

:15:23.:15:27.

about the nature of those rights. The government will argue that those

:15:28.:15:33.

rights for under a treaty, and that international treaties are an area

:15:34.:15:39.

where ministers are allowed to use their prerogative powers, their

:15:40.:15:43.

executive powers. So it is legitimate for those rights, brought

:15:44.:15:48.

in through the 1972 act, to be amended, changed or even wiped away

:15:49.:15:53.

entirely by ministers using their prerogative, their executive powers.

:15:54.:15:58.

That is their argument. Gina Miller, the businesswoman who won her case

:15:59.:16:03.

at the High Court, argues that these are full-blown statutory rights.

:16:04.:16:08.

They were granted by Parliament, so only Parliament has the authority to

:16:09.:16:12.

wipe away those rights or to amend them. That will be the heart of the

:16:13.:16:20.

argument, and we will hear the government's case put forward by the

:16:21.:16:23.

Attorney General initially, and then by the QC. That is what we will hear

:16:24.:16:30.

in real detail today. It is going to take us back throughout

:16:31.:16:33.

constitutional history to the case of proclamations in 1610, through

:16:34.:16:36.

the Bill of Rights, through the act of union. We will have a lesson in

:16:37.:16:41.

constitutional history, going back and looking at the powers that the

:16:42.:16:45.

Crown had and that ministers have been given and where the limits of

:16:46.:16:49.

those powers are. For lawyers like me, it will be a fascinating day. It

:16:50.:16:54.

is not going to be easy for nonlawyers to follow, but I will do

:16:55.:16:57.

my best to explain as we go through the day.

:16:58.:17:05.

Of course, the EU referendum divided politicians,

:17:06.:17:11.

friends and even families - not least, the Baxter

:17:12.:17:19.

Ian and Nigel are businessmen, they campaigned on different sides,

:17:20.:17:25.

and voted different ways on June 23rd.

:17:26.:17:27.

Fortunately, they're still able to sit in

:17:28.:17:32.

the same room together, despite their opposing

:17:33.:17:35.

Thank you very much for joining us. Nigel, I'll come to you first,

:17:36.:17:53.

because you run a truck dealership employing more than 80 workers, you

:17:54.:17:59.

voted leave. How do you feel about the process going through the

:18:00.:18:04.

courts? I'm frustrated by it. The United Kingdom citizens, 17.4

:18:05.:18:09.

million of us voted to leave and whilst the merits of this

:18:10.:18:12.

constitutionally maybe right there, is a frustrating tactic that's

:18:13.:18:15.

delaying or exit from the European Union and creating problems for our

:18:16.:18:17.

Prime Minister which are unnecessary. Ian, you own a freight

:18:18.:18:20.

company employing 60 people. Most of your business in Europe. You wanted

:18:21.:18:24.

to remain. Do you think it is right this is going to court? Well, I

:18:25.:18:29.

don't think it should be going to court, but I don't think the

:18:30.:18:32.

Government should be acting in this way. We live in a Parliamentary

:18:33.:18:35.

democracy, don't we? I voted to remain, but I accepted the result of

:18:36.:18:40.

the referendum, but the triggering of Article 50 is something that

:18:41.:18:43.

Parliament should agree with and arrange and the Government should

:18:44.:18:46.

come to Parliament and explain the strategy they have for leaving the

:18:47.:18:48.

European Union. We were talking to politicians

:18:49.:18:51.

earlier and everybody ashaerts they believe the -- asserts what they

:18:52.:18:55.

believe the people meant when they marked their X in the referendum.

:18:56.:18:57.

Nigel, are you clear on what you want Brexit to look like? Well, like

:18:58.:19:00.

all things, there is a big negotiating process to go through.

:19:01.:19:06.

What I dislike about this, in my experience of negotiating, you don't

:19:07.:19:08.

reveal your hand before you start the process and we have a situation

:19:09.:19:14.

here where all of these little pokes that we're getting from individual

:19:15.:19:16.

remoaners are creating issues for the Government, creating issues for

:19:17.:19:18.

the Prime Minister trying to reveal their hand. That's not the way to

:19:19.:19:20.

start a strong negotiation. Ian, you're one of the remoaners he is

:19:21.:19:24.

talking about. Do you think the Government should reveal its hand?

:19:25.:19:27.

Well, I think it should say what the broad strategy is. Its opening

:19:28.:19:33.

gambit if you like. I'm not someone who wants a blow-by-blow commentary.

:19:34.:19:38.

It is clear that the likes of Boris Johnson are now going back on many

:19:39.:19:45.

of the things that they campaigned for in this Leave campaign. He is

:19:46.:19:48.

talking about immigration. He's talking about paying to stay within

:19:49.:19:51.

the single market or something that looks a bit like that. So I think

:19:52.:20:04.

even those that ran the campaign don't know what Brexit should look

:20:05.:20:07.

like and I think it's right therefore n a Parliamentary

:20:08.:20:09.

democracy, that Parliament is involved in that process.

:20:10.:20:11.

You are going to have to reconcile yourself Ian to the fact that we are

:20:12.:20:16.

going out. What are your fears? Well, I have always said leaving the

:20:17.:20:20.

single market will be bad for trade, bad for jobs. But like I say, I

:20:21.:20:24.

accept the result of the referendum. I think we should trigger Article

:20:25.:20:27.

50, what I'm saying is that Parliament has a role to play in

:20:28.:20:33.

that process and the views of all the British people, the 48% as well

:20:34.:20:39.

as the 52% who voted to leave, should be heard as part of that

:20:40.:20:42.

process. Nigel, I hear what you're saying

:20:43.:20:46.

about echoing the Government's position about not revealing too

:20:47.:20:50.

much about the strategy here. In the en, if the Government goes along a

:20:51.:20:56.

path of maintaining access to European markets, maintaining

:20:57.:21:00.

freedom of movement, does much change? Well, I don't believe that

:21:01.:21:04.

we necessarily need to stay inside the single market. I believe that

:21:05.:21:11.

Britain has a strong neglecting position there in terms of trade

:21:12.:21:18.

balance. I don't believe in full free movement of people. And I

:21:19.:21:22.

haven't done and I campaigned against it. I am though a supporter

:21:23.:21:25.

of immigration, but controlled immigration. Britain needs good

:21:26.:21:26.

people to deal with our businesses and our Health Services and so on

:21:27.:21:31.

and so forth, we are going to continue with relatively large

:21:32.:21:35.

numbers. What that number looks like, but controlled, we need

:21:36.:21:37.

skilled people, not unskilled people.

:21:38.:21:39.

In the end then, does it deliver what the people actually wanted it?

:21:40.:21:46.

Well, I believe that we will deliver that, of course, but it will ablong

:21:47.:21:50.

process of negotiation and revealing our hand in the first instance of

:21:51.:21:56.

what it looks like and debate that through Parliament or otherwise is

:21:57.:21:58.

not the right way to do it. Ian, what do you think about the way of

:21:59.:22:02.

Government is handling it? Well, again, I think they are wrong in

:22:03.:22:06.

terms of trying to use the royal prerogative for this process. We

:22:07.:22:12.

don't use it in the context of Syria for instance. So the Government has

:22:13.:22:15.

gone to Parliament and asked for consent when they theoretically

:22:16.:22:17.

could have used the prerogativement jnly though, I think, Theresa May

:22:18.:22:25.

has been right to take her time to consider all the basises and to say

:22:26.:22:32.

we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. I think that's

:22:33.:22:39.

sensible and I'm not somebody who wants a second referendum. I believe

:22:40.:22:45.

the Government has to set out its plans. It has to start the

:22:46.:22:48.

negotiation from one point and in the end, make a compromise that will

:22:49.:22:51.

take into account the views of British people from across the

:22:52.:22:54.

spectrum. You're both being polite in clearly articulating your

:22:55.:22:57.

different views. Are you always this polite with each other, or do you

:22:58.:23:02.

get into proper rows about this? No, we are civilised most of the time!

:23:03.:23:07.

This process of the referendum has been a good thing for Ian and I, we

:23:08.:23:11.

have become closer together even though it involved lively debate as

:23:12.:23:15.

you might imagine. I think the important thing is that people on

:23:16.:23:17.

both sides of the debate listen to Ypres other more and that's the

:23:18.:23:22.

point that I'm making. Parliament should have its say. Be part of this

:23:23.:23:25.

process and the Government should listen to those views.

:23:26.:23:28.

Nigel and Ian Baxter, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

:23:29.:23:36.

Let us know your thoughts on that as well.

:23:37.:23:41.

Rachel segregation is growing. That's the conclusion of a report

:23:42.:23:49.

out this morning. We will discuss its findings later on.

:23:50.:23:54.

Let's return now to that big story in Europe this morning -

:23:55.:23:59.

the resignation of the Italian prime minister after a heavy

:24:00.:24:01.

Voices in Brussels have been saying the vote was about domestic

:24:02.:24:08.

constitutional reform, and not about the popularity

:24:09.:24:10.

But the campaign was led by populist anti-establishment politicians -

:24:11.:24:18.

So what does all these mean for European politics

:24:19.:24:27.

Let's speak now to Professor Matthew Goodwin, associate fellow

:24:28.:24:31.

of the Europe Programme at Chatham House and

:24:32.:24:33.

Dr Sofia Vasilopoulou, Senior Lecturer in Politics,

:24:34.:24:36.

And from Sheffield we have Dr Arianna Giovannini,

:24:37.:24:42.

Lecturer in Politics at De Montfort University.

:24:43.:24:42.

Thank you very much for joining us. I come to you first of all, doctor.

:24:43.:24:53.

Now that Prime Minister Renzi has resigned. How significant is this?

:24:54.:25:05.

Well, the resignation of Prime Minister Renzi is significant. In

:25:06.:25:08.

the first place this means that we will have to wait until what happens

:25:09.:25:13.

this afternoon, will he actually goes and see the president of the

:25:14.:25:18.

Republic and hand in his resignation, at that point the

:25:19.:25:19.

president of the Republic will have an important decision to make. It

:25:20.:25:23.

looks like he has three options. He can refuse to accept Renzi's

:25:24.:25:26.

resignations and ask him to stay in power and pass the Budget and also

:25:27.:25:31.

try to settle down the issue of the new electoral low. The second option

:25:32.:25:34.

which seems to be most likely is that he will accept the resignation,

:25:35.:25:38.

he will then call in a new Prime Minister, this is likely to be a

:25:39.:25:43.

technocratic sort of Government. So he will look for a political figure

:25:44.:25:48.

able to give a sign of stability to Italy and Europe. The names are

:25:49.:25:56.

either the current president of the Senate, or the minister of finance.

:25:57.:26:04.

Again, the main purpose of this new technocrat k Government would be

:26:05.:26:06.

that of passing the Budget in the first place for 2017 and also

:26:07.:26:13.

settling the issue of the electoral low. The problem with the electoral

:26:14.:26:18.

low the Government past a new low. This was suppose to work in tandem

:26:19.:26:22.

with the constitutional reform. The constitutional reform didn't pass.

:26:23.:26:28.

That means there is a new electoral low for the Chamber of Deputies, but

:26:29.:26:33.

there is not an electoral low for the Senate. Is this is what unfolds

:26:34.:26:38.

going forward. Matthew Goodwin, is this another kick for the

:26:39.:26:42.

establishment Well, it is another crisis for the European Union. We

:26:43.:26:48.

had a big day yesterday in Europe. We had the Austrian elections at the

:26:49.:26:53.

same time as the Italian referendum. Some EU mainstream commentators were

:26:54.:26:57.

celebrating that particular result because the populist right were not

:26:58.:27:01.

successful, but at the same time the possible ulist got 67% in Austria

:27:02.:27:08.

and the broader picture in Europe is I would suggest of a Continent

:27:09.:27:14.

that's in a volatile place, where politics is less predictable and

:27:15.:27:17.

where antiestablishment moments are really enjoying some of their

:27:18.:27:18.

strongest results. When you look at the two results

:27:19.:27:24.

that we've had, Austria, where the hard right lost and obviously Italy

:27:25.:27:29.

where the establishment has been hit. How volatile do you think

:27:30.:27:35.

things are and unpredictable? They are quite volatile at the moment,

:27:36.:27:42.

but we need to be thinking about the elections that are separate as well.

:27:43.:27:45.

They have got commonalities in the sense that they both provide a

:27:46.:27:49.

platform for antiestablishment and populist politics, but at the same

:27:50.:27:54.

time Italy was a referendum that was called by the Prime Minister. Pretty

:27:55.:27:59.

much, it was as a popularity contest for himself and his Government

:28:00.:28:05.

whereas so he had the choice not to do it. In Austria, it was a vote and

:28:06.:28:10.

an electoral vote for an institutional post that would have

:28:11.:28:13.

happened anyway. One key message that comes out of Italy is that

:28:14.:28:18.

politicians should be careful about setting out referendums that turn

:28:19.:28:22.

into popularity votes because people don't always vote on the basis of

:28:23.:28:25.

the question asked, but there are quite a lot of other arguments that

:28:26.:28:31.

come into play. There are elections next year in France, Germany and the

:28:32.:28:37.

Netherlands. Obviously all highly significant? Yes, we are entering

:28:38.:28:41.

into a series of events that will potentially deal a further plough to

:28:42.:28:45.

the EU whilst it is grappling with a financial crisis and a refugee

:28:46.:28:49.

crisis, you have lee pen in the French presidential elections who

:28:50.:28:52.

will probably make it to the second round. You have the Dutch elections

:28:53.:28:59.

where the latest polls put someone who is critical of Islam as having

:29:00.:29:03.

the largest number of seats and you have the German elections with the

:29:04.:29:05.

anti-immigration and Eurosceptic alternative for Germany who wants to

:29:06.:29:10.

build on State gains and enter the national Parliaments. So if we were

:29:11.:29:14.

to fast forward into the next 12 months, if we were having this

:29:15.:29:19.

conversation a year from now, this debate will be even louder.

:29:20.:29:25.

How does it play with what is going on here in terms of the negotiations

:29:26.:29:30.

of Britain getting out of the EU? Will it make it harder? Against a

:29:31.:29:38.

backdrop of Brexit the EU is going to be faced with a number of

:29:39.:29:46.

challenges on competing fronts and you know we haven't even got into

:29:47.:29:49.

the lack of economic growth in Europe, the disparities between east

:29:50.:29:53.

and west and north and south, this is a Continent that's overridden

:29:54.:30:02.

with crisises and Brexit and the negotiations for us, it means that

:30:03.:30:07.

this political change or this potential political change of new

:30:08.:30:11.

Prime Ministers and new presidents could alter the dynamics of the

:30:12.:30:14.

negotiations significantly. So we're seeing parties that are also quite

:30:15.:30:20.

critical of how the refugee crisis has been handled or free movement

:30:21.:30:24.

and things like that, perhaps possibly helping our negotiations.

:30:25.:30:28.

If ornld the EU is able to push back against the crisises and reassert

:30:29.:30:33.

itself, our negotiations may become harder, so it is all adding to a

:30:34.:30:34.

turd mull tuous period. N the other hand the EU is able to

:30:35.:31:14.

push back against the crisises and reassert itself, our negotiations

:31:15.:31:18.

may become harder, so it is all adding to a turd mull tuous period.

:31:19.:31:25.

There is no, it is not led by a single ableg for. There is a variety

:31:26.:31:30.

of actors. They include moderates and pro-European voices, as well as

:31:31.:31:33.

populist ones. It remains to be seen, it is up to the political

:31:34.:31:39.

parties and the way in which they will react to these to see what will

:31:40.:31:43.

happen in Europe. Thank you very much for joining us.

:31:44.:31:46.

Let us know your thoughts as well. Who decides how we leave

:31:47.:31:54.

the European Union - This morning, the biggest

:31:55.:31:57.

constitutional case for a generation gets under way in the Supreme Court

:31:58.:32:00.

- we'll bring you all the latest. We'll bring you reaction to a major

:32:01.:32:04.

report on integration in Britain which says that for over a decade

:32:05.:32:06.

governments have allowed local communities to become

:32:07.:32:09.

increasingly divided. Time for a summary

:32:10.:32:10.

of the day's news. A landmark legal hearing begins

:32:11.:32:12.

today which will determine who has the authority to begin the process

:32:13.:32:15.

of the UK leaving The Supreme Court will hear

:32:16.:32:17.

an appeal from the Government, which believes it has the right

:32:18.:32:21.

to trigger Article 50 The 11 justices will meet

:32:22.:32:23.

for the first time in the court's history in a hearing

:32:24.:32:27.

which will last four days. Italy is facing a day of political

:32:28.:32:29.

and financial turbulence following the defeat

:32:30.:32:33.

of Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's He will resign, and his

:32:34.:32:35.

imminent departure has The developments are likely

:32:36.:32:41.

to overshadow a meeting of Eurozone Public institutions have too often

:32:42.:32:44.

ignored or even condoned divisive and harmful religious practices

:32:45.:32:51.

for fear of being labelled racist, according to

:32:52.:32:53.

a Government-commissioned review. In her 200 page report,

:32:54.:32:56.

Dame Louise Casey suggests among other things that

:32:57.:33:00.

immigrants intending to settle in Britain should take

:33:01.:33:02.

an "integration oath". Fleet Town Football Club

:33:03.:33:08.

says a former coach accused of abusing youth players

:33:09.:33:12.

at Southampton FC in the 1980s The BBC has spoken to six former

:33:13.:33:14.

footballers who have made Until recently, he worked

:33:15.:33:21.

with Fleet Town's adult first team Meanwhile, three former footballers

:33:22.:33:26.

who lifted the lid on alleged widespread child sexual abuse

:33:27.:33:36.

in the game, have announced they're forming an independent organisation

:33:37.:33:40.

to support other potential victims. He scarred me. As I get older, it

:33:41.:33:50.

becomes harder to forget about is the time goes on. You say to

:33:51.:33:53.

yourself, I'm not going to forget about it, and there are times I go

:33:54.:33:55.

very dark places. Meanwhile, three former footballers

:33:56.:33:58.

who lifted the lid on alleged widespread child sexual abuse

:33:59.:34:00.

in the game, have announced they're forming an independent organisation

:34:01.:34:03.

to support other potential victims. Andy Woodward, Steve Walters

:34:04.:34:05.

and Chris Unsworth want the "Offside Trust" to represent

:34:06.:34:07.

players and their families. Since they spoke out,

:34:08.:34:10.

hundreds more alleged 18 police forces are now

:34:11.:34:12.

investigating related claims. That's a summary of the latest news,

:34:13.:34:21.

join me for BBC Newsroom Bournemouth produced one

:34:22.:34:24.

of the comebacks of the Premier than half an hour left,

:34:25.:34:33.

they fought back to win 4-3. Afterwards, Liverpool manager

:34:34.:34:39.

Jurgen Klopp said Bournemouth Elsewhere, Everton and

:34:40.:34:40.

Manchester United drew 1-1. There was another remarkable

:34:41.:34:46.

comeback in the second as non-league Curzon Ashton led

:34:47.:34:48.

Wimbledon 3-0 with just 10 minutes left, but their hopes were shattered

:34:49.:34:55.

when the League One side Elsewhere, National League

:34:56.:34:58.

side Barrow beat League of the greatest finals -

:34:59.:35:01.

Mark Selby withstanding a comeback from Ronnie O'Sullivan

:35:02.:35:07.

to win his second UK Championship Selby had led 6-2

:35:08.:35:09.

after the first session and held his nerve to

:35:10.:35:18.

eventually win 10-7. Tiger Woods hit five birdies in the

:35:19.:35:33.

Bahamas, but also three bogeys and three double bogeys, including that

:35:34.:35:36.

one on the last to finish four under par. That was 14 shots behind winner

:35:37.:35:42.

Hideki Matsuyama of Japan. So an up-and-down round, but great to see

:35:43.:35:45.

Tiger Woods back playing golf. That is all the sport for now. Plenty

:35:46.:35:49.

more on the BBC News Channel throughout the rest of the day.

:35:50.:35:51.

The highest court in the UK will start hearing the Government's

:35:52.:35:54.

appeal against a ruling that Parliament must discuss the terms

:35:55.:36:00.

of leaving the EU before the process can begin.

:36:01.:36:03.

The Prime Minister Theresa May wants to start the formal Brexit

:36:04.:36:05.

process by April next year, but the High Court ruled in November

:36:06.:36:08.

that this would have to be voted on first.

:36:09.:36:10.

Let's speak now to my colleague Ben Brown, who is outside

:36:11.:36:13.

Yes, we are outside the Supreme Court, the highest court in the

:36:14.:36:23.

land. There are quite a few demonstrators here. Members of the

:36:24.:36:26.

public have been queueing all morning to get inside for this four

:36:27.:36:33.

day hearing. 11 Supreme Court judges will sit together for the first

:36:34.:36:38.

time. It is unprecedented that all 11 Supreme Court judges have sat

:36:39.:36:43.

together to hear this case. Let's discuss it now before it gets under

:36:44.:36:46.

way with Martin Howe, QC, chairman of lawyers for Britain, who supports

:36:47.:36:51.

the government's case in this that the Government should be able to

:36:52.:36:57.

trigger Article 50. And Alison Young, professor of Public Law at

:36:58.:37:03.

Oxford University. Martin, you think Theresa May should just be free to

:37:04.:37:06.

implement what the referendum decision was in June? That is

:37:07.:37:11.

exactly right. The challenge is in this case rely on their rights. They

:37:12.:37:17.

have rights, but other people have rights too. There are 17.4 million

:37:18.:37:24.

people who voted to leave the European Union, and their rights

:37:25.:37:28.

should be respected, their rights not to be governed by European law,

:37:29.:37:31.

their rights not to be governed by the European Parliament and so on.

:37:32.:37:37.

We think it is important that those rights should be brought to the

:37:38.:37:41.

table. We also think that the parliament itself decided that the

:37:42.:37:45.

decision should be taken as a final and binding decision by the British

:37:46.:37:50.

people. There is no need for yet another act of Parliament simply to

:37:51.:37:56.

carry out the decision of the British people. That sounds simple

:37:57.:38:01.

enough when put like that, Alison Young, but explain the argument that

:38:02.:38:05.

Gina Miller, the original businesswoman who brought this case,

:38:06.:38:09.

which was upheld by the High Court last month what her case? Her case

:38:10.:38:15.

is to explain that although there was a decision of the British people

:38:16.:38:19.

to leave the European Union, this case is not asking whether we should

:38:20.:38:23.

leave or remain. This case is asking, legally, how do we do this

:38:24.:38:27.

in the correct manner? So it is asking us to look at the relative

:38:28.:38:30.

powers of the government and the powers of Parliament. Her argument

:38:31.:38:35.

is that the government does have powers which are called prerogative

:38:36.:38:38.

powers, which used to belong to kings and queens, but now belong to

:38:39.:38:43.

members of the government. Their argument is that that power cannot

:38:44.:38:48.

be used to alter rights that you find in statutes. European Union law

:38:49.:38:52.

has been brought in to statutes, so we need Parliament to be able to act

:38:53.:38:56.

to remove those rights. That is not to say we can't leave Europe, it is

:38:57.:39:00.

to make sure we do it in the legally correct manner. Martin, isn't that

:39:01.:39:06.

right, that this is about doing it in the correct way? Gina Miller's

:39:07.:39:10.

original argument was that Parliament enshrined European law

:39:11.:39:14.

into British law in 1972 with that European Communities Act. So if

:39:15.:39:18.

Parliament confers rights on the people, only Parliament can take

:39:19.:39:22.

them away. You don't accept that? But Parliament chose to hold a

:39:23.:39:27.

referendum, and chose explicitly to give the decision to the British

:39:28.:39:31.

people. It couldn't be clearer. Philip Hammond, in his speech

:39:32.:39:36.

introducing the Referendum Bill to parliament, said, this will be a

:39:37.:39:39.

decision for the British people, not parliamentarians in this chamber.

:39:40.:39:45.

What we are talking about here is simply triggering the decision to

:39:46.:39:49.

leave. We are not talking about subsequent things like negotiations

:39:50.:39:53.

and the changes in domestic law that would be needed later to put into

:39:54.:39:58.

effect any negotiated agreement with the European Union. Parliament, of

:39:59.:40:03.

course, has a full role in that. We are simply talking about the

:40:04.:40:09.

decision to leave, and triggering Article 50 is an inevitable

:40:10.:40:13.

consequence of the decision of the British people in the referendum.

:40:14.:40:17.

Alison Young, there are clearly strong feelings about Brexit. At the

:40:18.:40:20.

High Court, some of the newspapers were very critical of the judges

:40:21.:40:24.

said they were enemies of the people. This is a difficult moment

:40:25.:40:29.

for the judiciary. It is a difficult moment because although the case is

:40:30.:40:32.

decided on legal issues, it is hard to deny that the case is very

:40:33.:40:40.

important. It raises a lot of feelings and it is in the context of

:40:41.:40:46.

something that has important political consequences for British

:40:47.:40:49.

people. So is it right that the Supreme Court should have a say on

:40:50.:40:53.

this? I think it is right because they are not being asked whether

:40:54.:40:58.

they agree or disagree with Brexit, they are being asked to say, let's

:40:59.:41:02.

look at the British constitution. Let's look at the distribution of

:41:03.:41:06.

powers between the government and parliament, and less decide who has

:41:07.:41:11.

the power to do this and what is the constitutionally correct manner.

:41:12.:41:15.

Professor of Public Law at Oxford University Alison Young and Martin

:41:16.:41:20.

Howe, QC, chairman of lawyers for Britain, many thanks. Joanna, it all

:41:21.:41:26.

starts at 11 o'clock. We will hear initial remarks from the most senior

:41:27.:41:32.

judge, Lord Newberg. He is expected to save the decision of the judges

:41:33.:41:37.

will be purely on points of law, although he recognises that the

:41:38.:41:42.

Brexit issue arouses strong passions. Then we will hear from the

:41:43.:41:46.

Attorney General, Jeremy Wright QC, for the government. That is all to

:41:47.:41:47.

come. It's now more than two weeks

:41:48.:41:51.

since several former football players came forward

:41:52.:41:56.

with allegations of historic child Since then the inquiry into child

:41:57.:41:58.

sex abuse in football has broadened in scope beyond what anyone

:41:59.:42:03.

could have imagined. In the latest development,

:42:04.:42:05.

Fleet Town football club has confirmed that a man

:42:06.:42:07.

who was on the coaching staff, despite being at the centre

:42:08.:42:14.

of historical sex abuse allegations, Bob Higgins, who was a former youth

:42:15.:42:16.

development officer at Southampton, has been named by a number of former

:42:17.:42:20.

youth players, who claimed to police One former player at

:42:21.:42:24.

Southampton told us He waived his right to anonymity to

:42:25.:42:37.

talk to us this morning. His interview contains some graphic

:42:38.:42:37.

details. I would be cuddled up with him on

:42:38.:42:47.

the settee, but... It just wasn't normal when you look back. At the

:42:48.:42:51.

time, you're appreciated it and you felt wanted it, but then it led to

:42:52.:42:56.

other things. Again, at the time, I didn't question it. I felt grateful,

:42:57.:43:00.

because he would go to bed and then he would call me into his bedroom. I

:43:01.:43:04.

would go into his bedroom and it would be pitch black, and I would

:43:05.:43:08.

stand at the end of his bed while he was in bed, asking the questions.

:43:09.:43:14.

About my training, and I had to tell him how much I wanted to be a

:43:15.:43:17.

professional and how far I was prepared to go, would I run through

:43:18.:43:24.

brick walls for him? It was like he was grooming me. You did ultimately

:43:25.:43:30.

make allegations to police about the way he treated you. Those

:43:31.:43:36.

allegations then went to court and on the directions of the judge, he

:43:37.:43:42.

was cleared. Tell us more about the specific allegations you made? I was

:43:43.:43:49.

told at the time that I couldn't discuss the other things were going

:43:50.:43:57.

on at home in his bedroom, in the car, even. Basically, the one

:43:58.:44:02.

incident that happened to me was on a residential schoolboy week, where

:44:03.:44:07.

I developed an injury in the bottom of my spine, and he asked me back to

:44:08.:44:21.

a bedroom. And he told me he was going to massage the bruising from

:44:22.:44:27.

the bottom of my spine. So I basically had to pull my shorts down

:44:28.:44:39.

and lay down. This was an allegation that went to court on judge's

:44:40.:44:45.

orders, and he was cleared of the allegations against him. Did that

:44:46.:44:54.

mean that you subsequently put behind you the sorts of things you

:44:55.:44:59.

are talking about? Not at all. There are certain things I can't talk

:45:00.:45:05.

about about the court case. But after that, I was 21 when I went to

:45:06.:45:13.

court. So you think you are going to get over it, move on, have your own

:45:14.:45:17.

children and move on, but that doesn't happen. I'm a happy guy, got

:45:18.:45:25.

a fantastic wife, fantastic family and children, everything is amazing.

:45:26.:45:30.

But he scarred me, and as I get older, it gets worse to try and

:45:31.:45:36.

forget about because time is going on and you think to yourself, I am

:45:37.:45:39.

not going to forget about it. And there are times when I go very dark

:45:40.:45:46.

places. Obviously around now, this is not a good time, because it is

:45:47.:45:52.

all out there. But I am glad, because it is something I have got

:45:53.:45:56.

to deal with and stop burying it. I have to deal with it.

:45:57.:46:06.

Many former youth players have come out and have been speaking. How have

:46:07.:46:19.

you felt about that? If I'm honest with you, it is mixed feelings. I

:46:20.:46:26.

said to my wife the other day that I feel so good that I'm better about

:46:27.:46:30.

it all because I feel I've got much more support and you know the lads

:46:31.:46:36.

that I've spoken to, they have been absolutely fantastic, but at the

:46:37.:46:41.

same time, you don't want to know that other people have been affected

:46:42.:46:45.

like I have, with the things that have gone on, but I just would like

:46:46.:46:49.

to encourage more people to come forward though.

:46:50.:46:52.

I should say that Mr Higgins has previously denied all wrongdoing.

:46:53.:46:54.

And to anyone who has experienced sexual abuse as a young footballer,

:46:55.:46:59.

the NSPCC has a free helpline which offers advice and support.

:47:00.:47:03.

A government commissioned review into social integration has

:47:04.:47:11.

concluded that public institutions have too often ignored or even

:47:12.:47:17.

condoned divisive and harmful religious practices for fear

:47:18.:47:21.

of being labelled racist or Islamophobic.

:47:22.:47:24.

In her 200 page report, Dame Louise Casey suggests,

:47:25.:47:27.

among other things, that immigrants intending to settle

:47:28.:47:32.

in Britain should take an "integration oath".

:47:33.:47:36.

I haven't criticised the Muslim community at all, actually.

:47:37.:47:41.

It's very good for me to be able to say this this morning.

:47:42.:47:44.

What I have a problem with is any religion,

:47:45.:47:47.

faith, creed, colour, anything that holds back people

:47:48.:47:49.

from enjoying the opportunities of life in Britain today.

:47:50.:47:52.

So of course I think that in certain communities and within the Muslim

:47:53.:47:54.

community there are more women that are less likely to speak English,

:47:55.:47:58.

more women who are more likely to be kept at home,

:47:59.:48:01.

who aren't enjoying the equality that I enjoy

:48:02.:48:06.

Frankly, if they were white and living in Surrey,

:48:07.:48:17.

There is a dimension here that because we want to respect people's

:48:18.:48:26.

choices around culture, I think that we in some ways have

:48:27.:48:30.

allowed some people to be left behind in Britain for now not just

:48:31.:48:32.

in the last five or ten years but previously,

:48:33.:48:35.

and I think it's time we did something about that.

:48:36.:48:38.

The problem with this issue is that people want to duck it

:48:39.:48:40.

and want to be in the very easy place of saying, "This isn't

:48:41.:48:43.

happening, it's not true, everything is fine."

:48:44.:48:46.

Last Thursday I spent the day in somewhere called

:48:47.:48:51.

I spent the morning in a part of Birmingham.

:48:52.:48:55.

The idea that those areas are doing fine in Britain,

:48:56.:48:59.

I met women who cannot leave their homes without their husband's

:49:00.:49:04.

permission and that isn't coming from a good place, to protect them.

:49:05.:49:06.

It's coming from a bad place to keep them subjugated.

:49:07.:49:10.

I didn't realise this when I set about this job 12 or 18 months ago.

:49:11.:49:11.

It doesn't give me any pleasure to say this.

:49:12.:49:15.

We have to emancipate people in this country who have lived here now

:49:16.:49:32.

for more than five or ten years, still can't speak English,

:49:33.:49:34.

We're keeping them behind not only in terms of poverty but in terms

:49:35.:49:37.

of equality and that's not what this country is about.

:49:38.:49:40.

Not talking about this, not talking about these difficult issues,

:49:41.:49:46.

all it does is give ammunition to the extreme far

:49:47.:49:50.

right and ammunition to the Islamic extremists.

:49:51.:49:52.

Those are the people that set out to divide us,

:49:53.:49:59.

those are the people that want to bring this country

:50:00.:50:03.

to its knees, and we must not allow those people to do it.

:50:04.:50:05.

We must not be afeared of being called racist

:50:06.:50:18.

We have to talk about these issues or else we will get nowhere.

:50:19.:50:21.

Joining me now is David Goodhart - Head of Demography, Immigration,

:50:22.:50:37.

and Integration for the think-tank Policy Exchange and Faeeza Vaid

:50:38.:50:39.

from the Muslim Women's network who joins me via webcam.

:50:40.:50:39.

Thank you very much for joining us. Louise Casey talking strongly about

:50:40.:50:47.

reaching out to emancipate people and saying that this must be done

:50:48.:50:52.

without fear of being called racist. How do you react to what she was

:50:53.:51:01.

saying? I would agree the issues should be raised and they have been

:51:02.:51:11.

raised previously and a lot of these issues are not new to the work that

:51:12.:51:18.

many activists have broadband doing up and don't the country over many

:51:19.:51:22.

years. I fully support that. I think we need to have really nuanced

:51:23.:51:27.

debate about this because the top line of this report are easy to sort

:51:28.:51:30.

of polarize, whereas really the productive conversations will only

:51:31.:51:35.

come when we look at the nuance and the complexities of each of these

:51:36.:51:44.

issues. David, do you agree with Louise Casey when she says this

:51:45.:51:48.

country is becoming more divided as it becomes more diverse? Well, I

:51:49.:51:53.

think she would say and I think I would agree with her, that we are

:51:54.:51:57.

becoming more mixed, more integrated in some areas and less in other

:51:58.:52:02.

areas. It is very much depends on which parts of the country you look

:52:03.:52:08.

at. I mean Louise's report focuses a lot on the worst areas, on the

:52:09.:52:16.

Milltowns, places where there is a dominant single minority and

:52:17.:52:19.

entrenched division that goes back 30 or 40 years, these are the most

:52:20.:52:29.

difficult areas. She focuses a lot on the Pakistani and Bangladeshi and

:52:30.:52:32.

Muslim minorities and I think she is right to do that, but yes, I mean,

:52:33.:52:36.

this is a report that is focussing on the problems. You could go to

:52:37.:52:43.

Solihull or Watford or places where the divisions, those sort of

:52:44.:52:45.

divisions don't exist and you're seeing much more sort of, you know,

:52:46.:52:50.

normal mixing across ethnic lines. I mean, there is an underlining issue

:52:51.:52:53.

here which is very difficult to overcome and on the one hand, we

:52:54.:53:01.

acknowledge the fact that people from different ethnic cultural

:53:02.:53:05.

backgrounds tend to feel more comfortable with people with the

:53:06.:53:10.

same backgrounds and tend to want to live in communities that are

:53:11.:53:14.

dominated by that group. On the other hand, we think a good society

:53:15.:53:20.

is one that has lots of movement across ethnic and social class and

:53:21.:53:26.

other lines. What do you think are the answers? Louise Casey throws out

:53:27.:53:31.

lots of suggestions, what do you think is the best way to tackle

:53:32.:53:47.

this? I think we need to make sure that we're not thinking about

:53:48.:53:52.

integration as a one-way process. It is not solely the responsibility of

:53:53.:53:55.

migrant communities, it has to be fully entrenched in wider society as

:53:56.:54:03.

well. Not only do we see segregated communities, we see segregated white

:54:04.:54:10.

communities and David mentioned a few now. So, for me, in terms of

:54:11.:54:14.

solutions, I think, yes, the acknowledging the problem exists is

:54:15.:54:22.

a first step and looking at to move forward and actually acknowledge the

:54:23.:54:25.

positive contributions that these communities are making and have made

:54:26.:54:32.

is really important because... But what would specifically address the

:54:33.:54:38.

situation for the women in particular that Louise Casey focuses

:54:39.:54:42.

on who don't work and who don't speak English?

:54:43.:54:44.

I think both of those arguments are really come Paralympics because we

:54:45.:54:47.

have a situation in this country where we have really skilled Muslim

:54:48.:54:51.

women who are ready to access the job market, but face multiple levels

:54:52.:55:01.

of discrimination until employment. That needs to be tackled as well as

:55:02.:55:09.

the issue of getting them to a place where their job needs to be tackle,

:55:10.:55:14.

which would involve English language, but in terms of the

:55:15.:55:18.

English language issue that has come up, I agree that being able to have

:55:19.:55:22.

a good command of the English language gives you best access to

:55:23.:55:27.

provision, it gives you best access to education and services and

:55:28.:55:31.

knowing your rights, but that's not to say those women who don't speak

:55:32.:55:35.

English, Muslim or not, are not integrated and that misnomer really

:55:36.:55:39.

needs to be challenged. I want to bring in David. What's important

:55:40.:55:45.

about the vie, it is so much more robust in its language and so much

:55:46.:55:52.

more unblinking in its analysis and it is very critical of the

:55:53.:55:56.

well-meaning reports that we produced over the years and one of

:55:57.:55:59.

the really important things is of course, she acknowledges there is

:56:00.:56:01.

discrimination, of course, she acknowledges that many of these

:56:02.:56:04.

communities in some of the poorest most left behind in the whole

:56:05.:56:10.

country, but she also focuses on the self inflicted wounds. She doesn't

:56:11.:56:12.

absolve the

:56:13.:56:14.

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