18/01/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


18/01/2017

A volunteer shares her video diary on board a migrant rescue ship. Wheelchairs or buggies? Discussing priorities on public transport.


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Hello. It's Wednesday.

:00:09.:00:09.

It's 9am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:10.:00:10.

Boris Johnson says countries are "queuing up" to sign free trade

:00:11.:00:13.

deals with Britain when it leaves the EU.

:00:14.:00:16.

The Foreign Secretary's optimistic assessment comes as EU leaders

:00:17.:00:18.

prepare to give their verdicts on Theresa May's Brexit speech.

:00:19.:00:21.

We have an exclusive report from a rescue ship

:00:22.:00:26.

in the Mediterranean where thousands of migrants risk their

:00:27.:00:28.

We're going to come to you. Stay where you are. We're going to come

:00:29.:00:38.

to you. Will tougher sentences

:00:39.:00:43.

for people caught fighting One undercover investigator tells us

:00:44.:00:47.

how the widespread the practice Hello.

:00:48.:00:51.

Welcome to the programme. Are you getting a poor deal

:00:52.:01:04.

from your mobile phone provider? It comes as EE is fined

:01:05.:01:12.

for overcharging tens of thousands of customers

:01:13.:01:14.

who called its customer We'll have more details

:01:15.:01:16.

on that shortly. Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:17.:01:22.

we're talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria Live

:01:23.:01:25.

and if you text, you will be charged The Foreign Secretary has said

:01:26.:01:28.

countries are "queuing up" to sign free trade deals with Britain

:01:29.:01:33.

when it leaves the European Union. Boris Johnson also suggests that

:01:34.:01:35.

agreements could be achieved quickly after the Article 50 negotiations

:01:36.:01:39.

are concluded, and said the UK would not be "hauling

:01:40.:01:41.

up the drawbridge", despite the new migration controls

:01:42.:01:44.

promised by Theresa May. Our political correspondent

:01:45.:01:46.

Tom Bateman has more. Theresa May's Brexit speech brought

:01:47.:01:53.

the most clarity yet on her approach She told ministers and European

:01:54.:01:55.

diplomats she wanted ambitious trade deals with the rest of the EU,

:01:56.:02:02.

but she confirmed Britain would leave the union's

:02:03.:02:07.

formal free- rade area. What I am proposing cannot mean

:02:08.:02:09.

membership of the single market. The UK would have control

:02:10.:02:17.

of immigration policy, she said. And, in an unexpected move,

:02:18.:02:20.

the Prime Minister revealed she would be prepared to walk away

:02:21.:02:23.

from the talks if the deal The Foreign Secretary,

:02:24.:02:26.

Boris Johnson, writes this morning that countries are queuing up to do

:02:27.:02:32.

trade deals with Britain. Today, attention turns

:02:33.:02:37.

to the response from The head of the European Commission,

:02:38.:02:38.

Jean-Claude Juncker, Some in the European

:02:39.:02:43.

Parliament believe Mrs May's An illusion that you can go out

:02:44.:02:45.

of the single market, that you can go out off the customs

:02:46.:02:57.

union, and that you can cherry-pick, and you can have still

:02:58.:03:00.

a number of advantages. The Prime Minister will face MPs

:03:01.:03:03.

later with some opponents saying her plan risks

:03:04.:03:06.

an economic catastrophe. She has called for

:03:07.:03:07.

unity over Brexit. So far, at least, that

:03:08.:03:09.

seems some way off. Let's get more from our

:03:10.:03:17.

political guru Norman Smith. What if she doesn't get a deal?

:03:18.:03:25.

Well, ministers are just refuse to go counsel ten nans that

:03:26.:03:29.

possibility. I have been struck at the confidence frankly oozing from

:03:30.:03:35.

them despite the fact that Mrs May yesterday massively ratcheted up the

:03:36.:03:38.

stakes saying we want a deal in two years and we want a special deal

:03:39.:03:42.

that gives us everything that we want in terms of trade and in terms

:03:43.:03:46.

of the single market and the customs union and by the way, if you don't

:03:47.:03:50.

give us what we want, we're going to walk away. They say, they have been

:03:51.:03:54.

encouraged by the reaction from other EU leaders and it will be

:03:55.:03:58.

interesting to see when we hear from the president of the European

:03:59.:04:02.

Commission later who is talking to the European Parliament, you know,

:04:03.:04:06.

whether they're justified in thinking that Mrs May's message has

:04:07.:04:11.

gone Down OK with the rest of Europe. They have been buoyed by the

:04:12.:04:20.

reaction at home. The Telegraph, "May's bold terms for Brexit." The

:04:21.:04:24.

Daily Mail, it is like a comic book strip of Mrs May as a sort of latter

:04:25.:04:31.

day Mrs T! Certainly listening to David Davis, the Brexit Secretary

:04:32.:04:36.

this morning, he was saying what could go wrong? He said what could

:04:37.:04:42.

go wrong? A deal which is in the interests of both Britain and the

:04:43.:04:47.

European Union that seeks to preserve the best of what we have

:04:48.:04:51.

whilst giving us the freedom to trade globally and a deal which, a

:04:52.:04:56.

proposal, for a deal which will get hopefully the whole country behind

:04:57.:04:59.

it. Those who voted leave and those who voted remain because it is in

:05:00.:05:02.

the interests of the whole country. That's the aim. We're not seeking a

:05:03.:05:07.

fight. We're seeking to get a good deal which serves everybody. That's

:05:08.:05:10.

the most important thing to have in the front of your mind. Of course,

:05:11.:05:17.

quite a lot could go wrong, not least if Mrs May doesn't get the

:05:18.:05:20.

deal she wants then we pretty much just fall out of the EU and have to

:05:21.:05:26.

revert what are known as World Trade Organisation rules which means

:05:27.:05:29.

tariffs, which means more expensive goods which is a significant blow

:05:30.:05:36.

for British business. So the stakes are absolutely colossal and no

:05:37.:05:39.

wonder that ministers are hoping it will turn out OK because if it

:05:40.:05:45.

doesn't, the potential ramifications for this country are colossal.

:05:46.:05:51.

Mobile operator EE has been fined ?2.7 million for overcharging tens

:05:52.:05:54.

More than 30,000 customers have been affected,

:05:55.:06:02.

overcharged by a quarter of a million pounds.

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The regulator has explained why they've taken action.

:06:05.:06:06.

Well, we think this is a significant fine and fines

:06:07.:06:11.

Well, we think this is a significant fine and fines are a good

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They don't like to be on the receiving end of fines

:06:15.:06:17.

Well, we think this is a significant fine and fines are a good

:06:18.:06:20.

like this, but I think what really matters to consumers is that,

:06:21.:06:23.

companies get the services they provide and our bills right

:06:24.:06:26.

first time and that's why we hope that this fine today

:06:27.:06:28.

sends a clear message, not just to EE, but right

:06:29.:06:31.

across the industry that we won't hesitate to help in and levy fines

:06:32.:06:34.

if they get that wrong for customers.

:06:35.:06:43.

Rachel Horne is here. EE were going to give the money to charity, but

:06:44.:06:50.

until Ofcom stepped in and said hang on a minute, EE were saying it was

:06:51.:06:54.

too difficult to trace them. Ofcom forced them to trace the customers.

:06:55.:07:01.

They have reimbursed up to ?200,000. There is ?60,000. EE have given the

:07:02.:07:06.

money to charity, but Ofcom said you must still try and find the

:07:07.:07:10.

customers. Ofcom are starting to flex their muscles. You might

:07:11.:07:14.

remember back in October we had a big fine for TalkTalk. It was

:07:15.:07:18.

?400,000, but that was to do with cyber security, rather than customer

:07:19.:07:23.

relations. Vodafone were hit with a fine of over ?4 million, part of

:07:24.:07:27.

that was handling customer complaints. Ofcom are taking a

:07:28.:07:31.

stance and saying, look, you need to treat your customers properly, if

:07:32.:07:34.

you don't, we will wade in and we will take action. I spoke to Ofcom

:07:35.:07:38.

earlier and they said it is time the customers or the companies start

:07:39.:07:42.

treating customers properly and if they don't there will be

:07:43.:07:44.

consequences. Joanna is in the BBC

:07:45.:07:50.

Newsroom with a summary President Obama has cut

:07:51.:07:53.

the sentence of Chelsea Manning, who was jailed for 35 years

:07:54.:07:56.

for leaking intelligence secrets. The former military analyst,

:07:57.:07:59.

who was born Bradley Manning but had hormone therapy in prison,

:08:00.:08:02.

will be released in May. Our correspondent in Washington

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Rajini Vaidyanathan has more. Chelsea Manning was responsible

:08:05.:08:06.

for one of the largest leaks of government secrets

:08:07.:08:08.

in American history. Born Bradley Manning,

:08:09.:08:12.

it was while serving in Iraq that the low-ranking private hacked

:08:13.:08:16.

government databases, handing more than 700,000

:08:17.:08:19.

classified documents to Julian Assange's

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WikiLeaks organisation. Manning's supporters have campaigned

:08:23.:08:29.

for years for her release. They maintain she's

:08:30.:08:34.

a whistleblower, not a traitor. The reduction of Chelsea Manning's

:08:35.:08:37.

sentence means she's only served three years out of a 35-year term

:08:38.:08:40.

she was handed in 2013. During the trial, Manning's lawyers

:08:41.:08:46.

said their client struggled Soon after, it was announced that

:08:47.:08:49.

Bradley would be known as Chelsea She's being held at a male prison,

:08:50.:08:55.

and tried to take her I'd say 12 to 16 months,

:08:56.:09:01.

her mental state and her condition She became depressed

:09:02.:09:08.

and there was clearly a real risk to her wellbeing,

:09:09.:09:13.

if not her life, if she had Julian Assange thanked

:09:14.:09:15.

those who campaigned for Chelsea's release,

:09:16.:09:19.

and Edward Snowden, who also leaked government secrets,

:09:20.:09:22.

tweeted his thanks to President But the Republican speaker

:09:23.:09:23.

of the House, Paul Ryan, said President Obama's decision

:09:24.:09:30.

to cut short Chelsea Manning's sentence was outrageous and sent

:09:31.:09:33.

a message that those who compromise national security won't be held

:09:34.:09:38.

accountable for their crimes. One of President Obama's final acts

:09:39.:09:41.

in office will please A baby has been born

:09:42.:09:44.

to a previously infertile couple in Ukraine using a new type

:09:45.:09:53.

of "three-person IVF". Doctors in Kiev are reported to have

:09:54.:09:56.

used a method called pro-nuclear It is not the first baby born with

:09:57.:10:00.

DNA from three parents, however. Another child was created

:10:01.:10:07.

using a slightly different method Leaders of the train drivers union,

:10:08.:10:10.

Aslef, are meeting Southern Rail bosses this morning in a new attempt

:10:11.:10:16.

to resolve their long Next week's three-day strike

:10:17.:10:19.

by drivers on Southern Rail has been The union is in dispute

:10:20.:10:27.

with Southern's parent company GTR over the role of conductors

:10:28.:10:30.

on driver-only operated trains, amounting to Britain's worst rail

:10:31.:10:32.

strikes in 20 years. Thomas Cook is preparing to bring

:10:33.:10:39.

thousands of British holiday-makers home from Gambia

:10:40.:10:42.

because of a worsening The Foreign Office is advising

:10:43.:10:44.

people to avoid all but essential travel to the country,

:10:45.:10:50.

after its president refused to step down and declared

:10:51.:10:52.

a state of emergency. Thomas Cook said it was implementing

:10:53.:10:55.

contingency plans to bring home all its UK customers on additional

:10:56.:10:57.

flights over the next 48 hours. The Supreme Court is ruling today

:10:58.:11:03.

on whether disabled travellers are legally entitled to priority use

:11:04.:11:07.

of wheelchair spaces on buses even when there are babies

:11:08.:11:10.

in buggies on board. The case was triggered

:11:11.:11:15.

when wheelchair user Doug Paulley attempted to board a bus

:11:16.:11:17.

but was unable to when a woman First Group says its current

:11:18.:11:20.

policy of "requesting, not requiring" other passengers

:11:21.:11:23.

to move is the most feasible solution, but Mr Paulley insists

:11:24.:11:29.

it's discriminatory. Harry got this touch. He says I have

:11:30.:11:46.

the privilege of knowing Mr Paulley. If the bus company had put 10% of

:11:47.:11:51.

Doug's effort into disability awareness training then we wouldn't

:11:52.:11:54.

be where we are today. We are expecting the court judgement from

:11:55.:11:57.

the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, any time around

:11:58.:12:03.

tennish. Angela says, "I have seen parents abuse bus drivers if they

:12:04.:12:05.

can't get their buggy on the bus which is out of order. Disabled

:12:06.:12:13.

people should get priority in the same way older/disabled people get

:12:14.:12:16.

priority to use the front seats of the bus. I hope the gentleman wins

:12:17.:12:20.

his case and disabled people get priority over parents." Your views

:12:21.:12:27.

are welcome. Particularly if you use a wheelchair, what is the access

:12:28.:12:28.

like if you're using a bus? Do get in touch with us

:12:29.:12:34.

throughout the morning. use the hashtag #VictoriaLive,

:12:35.:12:36.

and if you text, you'll be charged Dan Evans is on court. He is facing

:12:37.:12:51.

Marin Cilic. He was the US Open champion in 2014. Evans wasn't

:12:52.:12:54.

really enjoying himself in the first set at all. He was broken in his

:12:55.:12:59.

very first service game. Always going to be an uphill struggle. We

:13:00.:13:04.

saw him throw his racket and shake his head. The first set, he lost

:13:05.:13:09.

that 3-6 in over half an hour. We're into the second set now and Evans is

:13:10.:13:14.

making a much bigger fight of this match. It is always going to be an

:13:15.:13:19.

uphill struggle when you lose the first set, but in the second set we

:13:20.:13:26.

have just seen Evans go 6-5 up. He has got set-point I'm being told. So

:13:27.:13:32.

the second set could go that way. If that's 1-1, Evans could make a match

:13:33.:13:35.

of this and make his way to the third round. Just to tell you as

:13:36.:13:40.

well, there has been some other big hitters on court and overnight.

:13:41.:13:44.

Roger Federer, he is safely through to the next round as is Stan

:13:45.:13:56.

Wawrinka. For British tennis fans, Andy Murray, sorry, Andy Murray will

:13:57.:14:02.

be on court later this morning. That will be live on Five Live sports

:14:03.:14:06.

extra. Dan Evans has just won that second set. So it is now 1-1. He won

:14:07.:14:12.

that 7-5. So got a match on our hands here, I think, Victoria.

:14:13.:14:15.

Some shocks last night in the FA Cup.

:14:16.:14:20.

What would you pluck out? Lincoln City. We talk every year about the

:14:21.:14:30.

magic of the Cup. There was some real wizardry served upment Lincoln

:14:31.:14:34.

59 places below Ipswich and they came through in injury time to win

:14:35.:14:39.

that 1-0. On the whole I thought Lincoln deserving. Look how composed

:14:40.:14:46.

Nathan Arnold was to grab the goal in injury time around the goalkeeper

:14:47.:14:54.

and the fans and the team were just in complete pandemonium. Look how

:14:55.:14:57.

much it meant to the players and all the staff. This is the first time

:14:58.:15:01.

Lincoln City reached the fourth round of the FA Cup in 41 years. The

:15:02.:15:08.

last person to take them there was Graham Taylor who passed away

:15:09.:15:12.

recently. It now sets up a brilliant tie for them at home to Brighton.

:15:13.:15:20.

But not to be outdone, Victoria Sutton United, another non-league

:15:21.:15:24.

side, they are through. They beat AFA Wimbledon. AFC Wimbledon two

:15:25.:15:32.

leagues above them. To give you a sense of the gulf in quality, well

:15:33.:15:35.

apparent quality between the two sides, Sutton are a team that rely

:15:36.:15:41.

on volunteers to stay afloat and they have got a tie against Leeds,

:15:42.:15:47.

championship side, at home and such was the manager's delight at his

:15:48.:15:50.

team winning, he opened up the bar at home and invited all the fans

:15:51.:15:56.

back for a celebratory drink. As you do!

:15:57.:16:20.

We have the latest on the police chiefs Council talking about the

:16:21.:16:25.

number of victims of abuse in football. 526 victims have come

:16:26.:16:31.

forward, 124 potential suspects have been identified. 248 football clubs

:16:32.:16:39.

have been impacted. This does not equate to 248 clubs under

:16:40.:16:41.

investigation, they want to make clear, but instead refers to the

:16:42.:16:48.

number of clubs referenced. So, Operation Hydrant, the investigation

:16:49.:16:57.

into historical child sexual abuse in football, the number of victims

:16:58.:17:05.

potentially at the moment stands at 526, 184 suspects identified, 248

:17:06.:17:06.

clubs referenced. Rough seas, winter storms and long,

:17:07.:17:14.

dark nights make this time of year the most dangerous for migrants

:17:15.:17:16.

attempting to reach But many people are still

:17:17.:17:18.

attempting the journey - often in small dinghies -

:17:19.:17:25.

with more than 1000 arriving in Europe in

:17:26.:17:26.

the first two weeks of 2017. Many of those were rescued

:17:27.:17:29.

on their journeys, but last week 100 people drowned after their boat sank

:17:30.:17:35.

off the coast of Libya. people crossing last year

:17:36.:17:38.

compared to the year before, it was the deadliest so far,

:17:39.:17:42.

with 5000 perishing at sea. Alva White, who worked

:17:43.:17:46.

as a producer at the BBC before going on a secondment to MSF,

:17:47.:17:49.

filmed her experience for us This is where I have

:17:50.:17:53.

lived for the last four And I wanted to show you what is

:17:54.:18:01.

outside my porthole window. This is the night sea

:18:02.:18:10.

and the night sky. That is what it must look

:18:11.:18:12.

like for the people getting into these unseaworthy,

:18:13.:18:16.

dangerous boats, crammed full It's not just them

:18:17.:18:19.

getting into them, but they take their children,

:18:20.:18:25.

their babies, their families. Women in the last stages

:18:26.:18:27.

of pregnancy, injured No one makes this decision

:18:28.:18:31.

easily, no one would put and they must be extremely terrified

:18:32.:18:45.

and extremely desperate. It's now about eight

:18:46.:19:23.

o'clock in the evening. 36 hours ago we set off from Sicily,

:19:24.:19:29.

and we are now about between 30 and 35 nautical miles

:19:30.:19:32.

from the Libyan coast. We position ourselves either

:19:33.:19:40.

to the east or the west of Tripoli in international waters,

:19:41.:19:43.

and we patrol the area ready to respond to a boat

:19:44.:19:45.

in distress that need rescuing. My name is Alexander,

:19:46.:19:50.

I am from Belarus. I work as a captain

:19:51.:19:55.

on board Aquarius. Let's call Aquarius is a small

:19:56.:20:04.

floating hotel and I will be Maybe it is not a 5-star,

:20:05.:20:11.

but we will try to keep We are on high alert for a rescue

:20:12.:20:15.

and that means we always sleep with our radios and food volume

:20:16.:20:30.

right by our head. Stay where you are, we're

:20:31.:20:56.

I think you can see just behind me, this is the second

:20:57.:22:04.

We are trying to give them a message is, keep everyone can.

:22:05.:22:08.

We can hear them from deck, we can hear people shouting and crying.

:22:09.:22:33.

When they pull up close to the deck you can see inside the boat,

:22:34.:22:43.

you see all these little faces and eyes looking up at you.

:22:44.:22:46.

I need to go now and help in the shelter.

:22:47.:23:53.

Today we saved two rubber boats with more or less

:23:54.:23:59.

a total of 250 people, among them 40 women,

:24:00.:24:00.

When you see them and you tell yourself they are taking this

:24:01.:24:10.

journey, it is already super dangerous and you know

:24:11.:24:13.

they are also pregnant, all he can say to yourself

:24:14.:24:15.

is that they had no choice, otherwise they would not be here.

:24:16.:24:23.

Of course I feel emotional, but when I'm on the boat I try

:24:24.:24:33.

not to get emotional, because I am here to make

:24:34.:24:35.

them trust me, I am here to make them feel safe.

:24:36.:24:38.

There is one young boy I have spoken to, he is 14 years

:24:39.:24:41.

old and he is from the Ivory Coast and his father died when he was ten

:24:42.:24:44.

He was living with his grandma, and his father had a business

:24:45.:24:52.

associate from Libya the kidnapped him from Ivory

:24:53.:24:55.

Coast and took to live with them in Libya and essentially forced him

:24:56.:25:01.

to work in his house, abused him physically,

:25:02.:25:07.

he beat him, he burned him, he has got signs of physical abuse.

:25:08.:25:10.

He managed to escape, he ran down to the beach,

:25:11.:25:14.

he said it took four or five hours to make it down to the beach,

:25:15.:25:21.

he found a group of people waiting to get onto a rubber boat

:25:22.:25:24.

and he begged them if he could come with them and they said yes,

:25:25.:25:28.

come with us and he got onto the rubber boat and we rescued

:25:29.:25:32.

I said, it's not your fault, all this stuff that happened,

:25:33.:25:37.

His eyes were tearing, he couldn't look me in the face, he was shaking.

:25:38.:25:41.

I don't know what will happen to him next.

:25:42.:25:43.

He can't read or write, he hasn't been to school

:25:44.:25:46.

for the last five years, he's 14, he speaks a bit of French,

:25:47.:25:49.

he doesn't speak Italian, he doesn't speak English.

:25:50.:25:51.

I don't know what will happen to him and he is one of many young,

:25:52.:25:57.

It's about half 11 at night, everyone is asleep apart

:25:58.:26:31.

from a few children in the shelter that are wide awake and full

:26:32.:26:34.

I hate seeing them on the metal floor of the deck with blankets.

:26:35.:26:48.

It's not the most comfortable, but at least they're safe

:26:49.:26:51.

and they're dry, though it is pretty windy and pretty

:26:52.:26:54.

rocky out there tonight, but they are really conked out.

:26:55.:26:56.

It is probably the first good night's sleep they've

:26:57.:26:59.

A number of them have told us about terrible times in Libya,

:27:00.:27:12.

beatings, being kept in a pit before they got in the boat, extortion,

:27:13.:27:15.

We do a night watch schedule, I'm not on until the early morning,

:27:16.:27:27.

so I'm going to take advantage and get a full night's sleep.

:27:28.:27:30.

At seven o'clock this morning we had a baby boy born

:27:31.:27:33.

I was woken just before half past six.

:27:34.:27:47.

I saw her first at 6.30 and the baby was born at seven o'clock.

:27:48.:27:50.

Everything was very normal and everyone is very happy about that.

:27:51.:27:52.

I called him Newman because he is a new man to me,

:27:53.:28:09.

he is a new man to God and he is a very lucky boy.

:28:10.:28:15.

For me, when I look at the sea now, I don't look

:28:16.:28:18.

For me, when I look at it now, I think about all those

:28:19.:28:25.

that we didn't rescue, all those that didn't survive.

:28:26.:28:30.

When you rescue people and you bring people on and you meet them

:28:31.:28:34.

and you get to know them and you help them, to think of those

:28:35.:28:37.

I want to say to the small Newman, welcome.

:28:38.:30:55.

I'm not really a crier, but for some reason,

:30:56.:30:57.

whenever they leave I always had to run into my cabin and take

:30:58.:31:00.

One guy is pretty streetwise, he has obviously been

:31:01.:31:07.

on his own for a while, he is ten.

:31:08.:31:16.

But you could see in his eyes, he was looking at us for some

:31:17.:31:19.

If you want share that film, you can head to our programme

:31:20.:31:50.

Nearly 5,000 calls about organised dog fighting

:31:51.:32:00.

in England and Wales have been made to the RSPCA in the past ten years.

:32:01.:32:04.

Campaigners are now calling for longer punishments

:32:05.:32:05.

We'll speak to the owner of a dog who was rescued

:32:06.:32:09.

We'll introduce you to Ruby, too, the dog who was rescued,

:32:10.:32:15.

as well as an undercover investigator.

:32:16.:32:19.

British tour operator Thomas Cook has started to evacuate about 1,000

:32:20.:32:22.

tourists out of the Gambia, where President Yahya Jammeh

:32:23.:32:24.

is refusing to step down and has declared a state of emergency.

:32:25.:32:27.

Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:32:28.:32:46.

Figures relating to allegations of historical child sexual abuse

:32:47.:32:48.

The indicative number of victims now stands at 526.

:32:49.:33:00.

Jim Reed will have more later this hour.

:33:01.:33:10.

Unemployment fell by 52,000 to 1.6 million in the three months to

:33:11.:33:11.

November. The Foreign Secretary has said

:33:12.:33:14.

countries are "queuing up" to sign free trade deals with Britain

:33:15.:33:17.

when it leaves the European Union Boris Johnson also suggests that

:33:18.:33:20.

agreements could be achieved quickly after the Article 50

:33:21.:33:22.

negotiations are concluded. Mr Johnson is currently on a visit

:33:23.:33:24.

to India and praised I think that the Prime Minister set

:33:25.:33:27.

out a very powerful, a very positive vision yesterday

:33:28.:33:35.

for how we can do a deal, that will not just benefit our friends

:33:36.:33:38.

in the rest of the EU, but also drive growth in the rest

:33:39.:33:41.

of the world and one of the points I will be making here in India

:33:42.:33:45.

is that we think we can do free trade deals which will be

:33:46.:33:48.

for the benefit of both our countries, both Britain

:33:49.:33:51.

and India as well. Mobile operator EE has been fined

:33:52.:33:55.

?2.7 million for overcharging tens The penalty, imposed

:33:56.:33:58.

by telecoms regulator Ofcom, after an investigation found

:33:59.:34:07.

that the UK's biggest mobile network broke a billing

:34:08.:34:09.

rule on two occasions, overcharging customers

:34:10.:34:13.

using the 150 customer services number within the EU

:34:14.:34:16.

and billing them even EE has apologised and says it has

:34:17.:34:18.

put measures in place to prevent Thomas Cook is preparing to bring

:34:19.:34:22.

thousands of British holiday-akers home from Gambia

:34:23.:34:30.

because of a worsening The Foreign Office is advising

:34:31.:34:32.

people to avoid all but essential travel to the country,

:34:33.:34:35.

after its President refused to step down and declared

:34:36.:34:37.

a state of emergency. Thomas Cook said it was implementing

:34:38.:34:40.

contingency plans to bring home all its UK customers on additional

:34:41.:34:42.

flights over the next 48 hours. That's a summary of

:34:43.:34:50.

the latest BBC News. Dan Evans is up against seventh seed

:34:51.:34:52.

Marin Cilic in the 2nd Evans lost the first set 3-6,

:34:53.:35:04.

but managed to fightback He's going with serve in the third

:35:05.:35:07.

set. Non-league Lincoln City beat

:35:08.:35:16.

Championship side Ipswich Town 1-0 last night in their third round FA

:35:17.:35:18.

Cup replay. It's the first time they've got this

:35:19.:35:22.

far since the late Graham Taylor Another non-league side,

:35:23.:35:25.

Sutton United, also made it through. They beat League One AFC Wimbledon

:35:26.:35:33.

3-1 in their replay. They're now at home to Leeds

:35:34.:35:37.

in the fourth round. Manchester City midfielder

:35:38.:35:40.

Yaya Toure has turned down ?430,000 It's the second time a club

:35:41.:35:42.

in the Chinese Super League has tried to tempt him away

:35:43.:35:51.

from the Premier League. England women head coach

:35:52.:35:54.

Simon Middleton has included four new faces in his 33-player squad

:35:55.:35:57.

for the Six Nations. England host defending

:35:58.:36:01.

champions France in their That's all the sport for now. I will

:36:02.:36:02.

have more just after 10am. A wheelchair user who has taken

:36:03.:36:15.

a disability discrimination case to the Supreme Court

:36:16.:36:18.

is about to find out if he has won. It's the first case of its kind

:36:19.:36:21.

to be taken to such a high level. Doug Paulley wasn't able to get

:36:22.:36:24.

on a FirstGroup bus in Wetherby because a mum refused

:36:25.:36:27.

to move her child's buggy out Clive Coleman is outside the Supreme

:36:28.:36:38.

Court. Fill us in on the detail. This is a story basically about a

:36:39.:36:43.

man who tried to get on a bus in a wheelchair, the one dedicated

:36:44.:36:46.

wheelchair space was occupied by a woman with a buggy and she refused

:36:47.:36:50.

to move and it has come to this the Supreme Courtment the reason it has,

:36:51.:36:54.

is that it is effectively testing the policy that was operated by the

:36:55.:36:59.

bus operator First Group whereby its drivers were told that they had to

:37:00.:37:05.

request, but not require someone, a non-wheelchair user to move from the

:37:06.:37:09.

wheelchair space. Initially Doug Paulley sued and he won a ruling

:37:10.:37:14.

that that policy, amounted to unlawful disability discrimination.

:37:15.:37:17.

The case went to the Court of Appeal. They reversed that decision

:37:18.:37:21.

and now it has come to the highest court in the land and the reason it

:37:22.:37:26.

is so significant Victoria is the implications for service providers

:37:27.:37:29.

whether it is train companies, supermarkets, who have disabled

:37:30.:37:34.

spaces in their car parks, or disabled toilets on trabs, that kind

:37:35.:37:37.

of thing, will be watching very carefully to see just how far they

:37:38.:37:42.

have to go to ensure that wheelchair users get to use those separately

:37:43.:37:47.

dedicated spaces. So it is a really significant case as far as service

:37:48.:37:50.

providers are concerned and a significant case for Doug Paulley

:37:51.:37:54.

who has been fighting this battle since 2012. He'll financed out today

:37:55.:37:58.

if he has won. In the next hour, do you reckon? What are the timings, or

:37:59.:38:03.

don't we know? 9.45am for the judgement. So within the next ten

:38:04.:38:10.

minutes. We will be back with Clive live outside the Supreme Court as

:38:11.:38:11.

soon as the judgement is delivered. There have been almost 5,000 calls

:38:12.:38:20.

to the RSPCA reporting dog fighting But figures released to BBC

:38:21.:38:23.

South East show over the same period of time only 137 people

:38:24.:38:27.

were prosecuted by the charity for We're about to show

:38:28.:38:29.

you two short clips given You might find them

:38:30.:38:40.

distressing so I wanted to let We have an acting chief inspector

:38:41.:38:52.

right here. What breeds of dogs are they? Those dogs on there, are pit

:38:53.:39:01.

bull, terrier cross type dogs. OK. Jane is here. We're going to talk to

:39:02.:39:07.

Steve Duncan with his dog Ruby who was rescued from a dogfight trainer.

:39:08.:39:14.

And David as well, who is an undercover investigator with the

:39:15.:39:17.

League Against Cruel Sports and because of his work, we aren't

:39:18.:39:23.

identifying him. Tell us about the state Ruby was in

:39:24.:39:31.

when she was rescued. She was in a dreadful state. Most of these bait

:39:32.:39:38.

dogs don't make it through, 99 out of 100 die from their injuries, but

:39:39.:39:42.

she was in a terrible, terrible state. Most of her fur was missing.

:39:43.:39:50.

Her back tendon was bitten through. Half her tail was chewed through.

:39:51.:39:55.

Just dreadful, dreadful. Fortunately the UK German shepherd rescue

:39:56.:40:00.

managed to rescue her and it has been a long haul, but we've got her

:40:01.:40:04.

back to the sort of condition she is in today. Yes, what about, I mean,

:40:05.:40:10.

physical injuries, she has recovered thank goodness, do you see any other

:40:11.:40:20.

impact though? Well, psychologically, she is very sort

:40:21.:40:25.

of, well you wouldn't know it at the moment, but she is very sort of

:40:26.:40:31.

low-key and there is a way to go yet, with you she is getting there,

:40:32.:40:38.

it has been a few years, but we're going in the right direction. She is

:40:39.:40:41.

stunning. Jane, can you describe what happens in a dogfight? It is

:40:42.:40:47.

one of the most barbaric forms of animal cruelty to be honest. It

:40:48.:40:52.

generally involves an organisation behind it. It's a meeting where two

:40:53.:40:59.

dogs are brought together for the purpose of fighting. Are they

:41:00.:41:04.

trained to fight? How do the organisers get them to fight?

:41:05.:41:07.

Unfortunately the animals are, you know, trained to fight. They are put

:41:08.:41:12.

through quite an intensive training regime that involves running on

:41:13.:41:17.

treadmills, sometimes steroids are given and these animals are in the

:41:18.:41:21.

peak of physical fitness when they are put into the ring to fight. And

:41:22.:41:26.

the purpose is for people to bet on which dog will win? In some

:41:27.:41:31.

instances, yes, a lot of money can change hands in these fights. Is it

:41:32.:41:36.

true that domestic dogs are stolen to act as bait sometimes? Tell he

:41:37.:41:41.

what goes on there? There is a belief that this is taking place. A

:41:42.:41:46.

belief? We don't know for sure. It is difficult to prove 100%, but

:41:47.:41:51.

certainly there have been instances and with kittens also that animals

:41:52.:41:57.

have been found with marks on them, dye, some indication that they may

:41:58.:42:03.

have been used as bait animals in fights, but it is very difficult

:42:04.:42:09.

to... What do you mean? There is two dogs, they chuck a kitten or a

:42:10.:42:12.

smaller dog and the two fight over that creature? When they're

:42:13.:42:16.

preparing an animal for fight, to fight, and it is during that

:42:17.:42:20.

training process, in order to prove the instinct that animal is game and

:42:21.:42:27.

is willing to fight, they start to practise on various things as they

:42:28.:42:30.

go through the training process. Oh goodness me. David, tell our

:42:31.:42:34.

audience a little bit about the work that you're involved with. Well, the

:42:35.:42:41.

League Against Cruel Sports aims to try and prevent dogfighting. I think

:42:42.:42:46.

once we get to any dogfighting prosecutions we've failed anyway. We

:42:47.:42:50.

need to try and prevent it and to be able to prevent it, we need to

:42:51.:42:53.

understand how it operates and then we need to work with partners and we

:42:54.:42:57.

need to engage with others to try and find ways to educate those that

:42:58.:43:02.

want to be involved in dogfighting, but also finding ways to be able to

:43:03.:43:08.

work as partners together to be able to prevent it and stop it happening

:43:09.:43:13.

in the first place. But your work undercover then, what does that

:43:14.:43:16.

involve? Well, traditionally undercover work was in the field,

:43:17.:43:20.

but as we move into 21st century it has changed a lot more to being

:43:21.:43:25.

online undercover work. So dogfighters have to communicate with

:43:26.:43:29.

each other. So a lot of the undercover work is assessing the

:43:30.:43:34.

language that they're communicating with online and being able to

:43:35.:43:37.

understand what they're talking about and predicting when things are

:43:38.:43:40.

going to happen and understanding how they're going to operate. What

:43:41.:43:45.

do you with that information, if you knew they were arranging a dogfight,

:43:46.:43:50.

what do you do with the info? The information would go to the police

:43:51.:43:54.

who would go to the RSPCA if we knew a dogfight was about to happen. The

:43:55.:43:59.

RSPCA tends to take the lead. We would be pushing for the police to

:44:00.:44:03.

take more of a lead. We realise it is to the one of their

:44:04.:44:05.

responsibilities at the moment, but we would push for the police to take

:44:06.:44:10.

a lead to deal with an impending dogfight, but more importantly, we

:44:11.:44:13.

would understand more of how it operates and it is only when you

:44:14.:44:17.

pool all that information together can you start making strategic

:44:18.:44:20.

decisions on how to tackle dogfighting. OK, Jane, the maximum

:44:21.:44:24.

prison sentence for being involved or organising or attending a

:44:25.:44:31.

dogfight like the ones we've shown to our audience, five months in

:44:32.:44:34.

Northern Ireland and six months in England and Wales. That was the

:44:35.:44:37.

maximum sentence imposed under that piece of legislation. So

:44:38.:44:42.

unfortunately, whilst, you know, we sympathize with member of the

:44:43.:44:45.

public's opinion when they hear the maximum sentence is six months, that

:44:46.:44:49.

is the maximum that can be imposed by magistrates. Is it deterring

:44:50.:44:55.

anybody? Is it useless in England and Wales? To be honest with you, if

:44:56.:45:00.

you're operating at the lel that some of these organised gangs are,

:45:01.:45:03.

it is an occupational hazard that they will take a six month prison

:45:04.:45:09.

sentence on the chin. And clearly, that's the maximum and sentences are

:45:10.:45:14.

reduced anyway once they enter the prison system. We would certainly

:45:15.:45:17.

like to see things brought in line with Northern Ireland.

:45:18.:45:22.

Is that likely to happen? I think we need do do a lot more lobbying on

:45:23.:45:28.

that fact. OK, we appreciate your time. David, thaup for your time,

:45:29.:45:33.

undercover investigator with the League Against Cruel Sports. Steve,

:45:34.:45:39.

the future for you and Ruby? The future looks fantastic. As I say,

:45:40.:45:45.

she is fantastic with other dogs, with people, she goes to rescue

:45:46.:45:50.

events where she is basically a bit of a star. It's good, but

:45:51.:45:55.

unfortunately, for every Ruby, there is hundreds of other dogs that are

:45:56.:45:59.

not so lucky. And I think really what I would like to say is when

:46:00.:46:03.

people need to re-home their dogs for whatever reason, avoid the free

:46:04.:46:08.

to a good home route. Or that sort of thing. Go to a rescue. Speak to

:46:09.:46:13.

them. They'll point you in the right direction even if they can't take

:46:14.:46:16.

your dog, they will point you in the right direction. They are good

:46:17.:46:21.

people and I think if the public are educated to what's going on, they're

:46:22.:46:26.

going to be a lot wiser to this terrible, terrible, terrible,

:46:27.:46:29.

so-called sport. Thank you very much. Thank you, Steve. And Ruby. I

:46:30.:46:33.

really appreciate your time. Thank you.

:46:34.:46:37.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs told us:

:46:38.:46:41.

"Anyone who is cruel to an animal or does not provide for its welfare

:46:42.:46:45.

needs may be banned from owning animals, given an unlimited

:46:46.:46:47.

Coming up: We'll be finding out how thousands of grandparents could be

:46:48.:46:54.

missing out on a special government scheme designed to reimburse

:46:55.:46:56.

to reimburse them for looking after their grandchildren.

:46:57.:47:07.

Thomas Cook chartered planes are heading to The Gambia

:47:08.:47:09.

to bring home nearly 1,000 British holiday-makers.

:47:10.:47:11.

It's because of the worsening political crisis.

:47:12.:47:13.

The Foreign Office is now advising against all but essential travel

:47:14.:47:15.

to the west African country - where President Yahya Jammeh

:47:16.:47:18.

is refusing to accept defeat in last month's election.

:47:19.:47:25.

Our correspondent, Thomas Fessy, has been monitoring the situation

:47:26.:47:27.

There is a risk of unrest, hence foreigners brought home? Yes,

:47:28.:47:39.

exactly. There is a risk of an intervention as West African States

:47:40.:47:44.

have warned Mr Jammeh that if he refused to step down by tomorrow,

:47:45.:47:50.

today being the end of his term, they would intervene militarily and

:47:51.:47:56.

confront his army if it was to back him by tomorrow. Tomorrow is the day

:47:57.:48:02.

when his opponent and President-elect is supposed to be

:48:03.:48:08.

sworn in, but in a spectacular U-turn after he admitted defeat

:48:09.:48:13.

after last month's election, Mr Jammeh suddenly said that he

:48:14.:48:18.

rejected the result of the election, and that the vote should be rerun,

:48:19.:48:24.

and so now we are into this political deadlock that risks

:48:25.:48:29.

spiralling into potential violence in the Gambia, so tour operators are

:48:30.:48:35.

now saying they will evacuate all the tourists and bring them back

:48:36.:48:41.

home. And after the state of emergency, then what? So, President

:48:42.:48:50.

Jammeh is saying that the election challenge that he lodged with the

:48:51.:48:55.

Supreme Court should be heard. The problem is there is a lack of judges

:48:56.:49:02.

at the Supreme Court, and they have hired foreign judges to help them.

:49:03.:49:06.

These judges are not available before me, so the Supreme Court

:49:07.:49:09.

cannot hear the case before the month of May, so President Jammeh is

:49:10.:49:15.

saying, I should stay in power until the court is able to hear the case

:49:16.:49:19.

and we can understand what is going on with the election results. But

:49:20.:49:25.

obviously foreign powers, the international community and

:49:26.:49:29.

President-elect Adama Barrow are saying that there is no way

:49:30.:49:34.

President Jammeh should stay in power until then, he should step

:49:35.:49:38.

down and Adama Barrow should be sworn into office, and the court

:49:39.:49:42.

case may be heard later on. Thank you very much.

:49:43.:49:50.

Let's bring you more now on those new figures relating to allegations

:49:51.:49:53.

of non-recent child sexual abuse in football.

:49:54.:50:00.

The number of suspects in the UK-wide

:50:01.:50:01.

scandal has reached 184, according to the National

:50:02.:50:03.

The latest update, the numbers are over 1000. Yes, the numbers are

:50:04.:50:23.

going up and up. This refers to operation hydrant, the investigation

:50:24.:50:30.

into historical abuse in football. The number of potential victims

:50:31.:50:33.

identified is up by 100, more people still coming forward. It also looks

:50:34.:50:38.

like there has been a sharp rise in the number of clubs involved, going

:50:39.:50:43.

up from 148 in December to 248 in just a month, and you imagine that

:50:44.:50:48.

that is because some of these cases tend to involve multiple clubs, so

:50:49.:50:57.

it might be one accusation of abuse, but further investigation reveals

:50:58.:50:59.

more clubs involved. And in terms of what the police are doing to try to

:51:00.:51:04.

get the bottom of so many allegations, how are they doing

:51:05.:51:08.

this? It is interesting when you look at the statistics. Most men,

:51:09.:51:19.

97% of men, from four to 20-year-old, across all tiers of

:51:20.:51:23.

sport, so this is grassroots right up to some Premier League clubs

:51:24.:51:27.

involved. The vast majority do involve football, but there have

:51:28.:51:30.

been 22 referrals involving other sports, rugby, gymnastics, martial

:51:31.:51:36.

arts, swimming, even golf, so this is across the board. The police say

:51:37.:51:42.

they are seen a decrease in the number of people coming forward to

:51:43.:51:46.

the dedicated NSPCC FA helpline, but instead people seem to be contacting

:51:47.:51:49.

their local police force to recollect and coming forward that

:51:50.:51:52.

way, so the general message is, whatever way you want to come

:51:53.:51:57.

forward, you either dial 101, your local police force, or this

:51:58.:52:01.

dedicated helpline, which is on the screen.

:52:02.:52:03.

Thank you very much. We are waiting for a judgment from

:52:04.:52:16.

the Supreme Court brought by a man called Doug Paulley who couldn't get

:52:17.:52:22.

onto a bus he wanted to get onto, so decided to take it through the legal

:52:23.:52:25.

process to argue that it was discriminatory. A mum wouldn't move

:52:26.:52:37.

her pushchair. One comment says, the trouble with modern pushchairs as

:52:38.:52:41.

they are not designed to fold flat. Bryony says, wheelchair users should

:52:42.:52:45.

get priority. Any parent can collapse a pushchair and put it in

:52:46.:52:52.

the luggage hold. If more people realised they could be disabled

:52:53.:52:54.

tomorrow, there would be more facilities. Not all parents should

:52:55.:52:59.

be tarred with the same brush. Daisy says, people should move the pram

:53:00.:53:03.

for someone any wheelchair, a baby could go on your lap, you can't get

:53:04.:53:09.

of wheelchair. Rebecca says London buses are a nightmare for access for

:53:10.:53:12.

either wheelchairs or pushchairs. Michaels is the overwhelming

:53:13.:53:16.

majority of people are respectful, civil and helpful, but there are

:53:17.:53:20.

those who are obstructive, and even abusive, towards those who wish to

:53:21.:53:24.

use accessible, disabled or blue badge parking facilities. As I said,

:53:25.:53:29.

as soon as we get the ruling, we will bring it to you straightaway.

:53:30.:53:33.

Thank you for your own experiences, they are really helpful in terms of

:53:34.:53:36.

informing... I'm just hearing that Doug Paulley has won a partial

:53:37.:53:41.

victory, that is all we know the moment. We will talk to our legal

:53:42.:53:46.

eagle Clive Coleman, who will explain exactly what that means, as

:53:47.:53:49.

soon as we get him outside the Supreme Court. In the meantime, we

:53:50.:53:53.

are going to talk about the latest jobless figures.

:53:54.:54:00.

We've just had the first figures of the New Year

:54:01.:54:02.

on the jobless total - unemployment is down by 52,000

:54:03.:54:04.

It is the lowest unemployment total for more than a decade, but the

:54:05.:54:09.

number of people in work has also fallen.

:54:10.:54:13.

Let's talk now to the Employment Minister, Damian Hinds

:54:14.:54:15.

Can you explain that our audience? This is a good start would important

:54:16.:54:22.

year. The number of unemployed people is down somewhat, and the

:54:23.:54:29.

rate is still at its 11 year low, the claimant rate is still at its

:54:30.:54:36.

record high, so this is a good start to the year. Unemployment has

:54:37.:54:40.

fallen, but the number of people in work has also fallen? The number of

:54:41.:54:46.

people in work has fallen by a very, very small amount, we are talking

:54:47.:54:51.

about fractions of 1%. Overall, the rate of employment has stayed at the

:54:52.:54:57.

same level as in the previous period, so it stays at the record

:54:58.:55:04.

high level, and I think it is encouraging that the unemployment

:55:05.:55:08.

level has stayed at an 11 year low, and we are seeing good progress

:55:09.:55:14.

particularly on youth unemployment and a new varying courage in figure

:55:15.:55:17.

on the proportion of young people who are unemployed, down to 5.3%.

:55:18.:55:23.

And what you read into these figures more broadly, considering it is the

:55:24.:55:28.

three months to November, so several months after the vote to leave the

:55:29.:55:31.

European Union, when there was a period of uncertainty, let's be

:55:32.:55:36.

honest. I think these figures illustrate the underlying strength,

:55:37.:55:39.

the resilience, of the UK economy, and as we enter 2017, it will be an

:55:40.:55:45.

important year for our country clearly. This gives us confidence.

:55:46.:55:49.

They are encouraging figures, we know in our job centres and what we

:55:50.:55:53.

do to support people that there is always more to do, but we start of

:55:54.:56:00.

2017 in a good position. I want to ask you about Mrs May's Brexit

:56:01.:56:04.

speech. She said yesterday she thinks she can get a brilliant deal

:56:05.:56:11.

with the EU without any of what she called the downsides. Is that

:56:12.:56:16.

realistic? The Prime Minister set out a comprehensive and positive

:56:17.:56:20.

approach to these negotiations. Issue being realistic? It covered

:56:21.:56:23.

all the important areas. The primers to has always been clear that we

:56:24.:56:29.

have to maximise our trade opportunities, growth opportunities,

:56:30.:56:32.

but also make sure that we take back control over immigration, over our

:56:33.:56:38.

laws, over taxpayers' money. We have a shared interest between us and the

:56:39.:56:45.

other members of the European Union into forging a deal that works for

:56:46.:56:48.

Britain and works well for the European Union, so that when your

:56:49.:56:53.

trading partners do well, you do well. How would the EU benefit from

:56:54.:57:00.

giving the UK a special deal? The EU will benefit of the UK economy is

:57:01.:57:03.

doing well, just as the UK economy benefits when the EU economy is

:57:04.:57:08.

doing well or indeed the American Chinese economies and so on. In the

:57:09.:57:13.

international economy, when your trading partners are doing well,

:57:14.:57:18.

that is good for you, it is good for your own private prospects and

:57:19.:57:22.

growth prospects. There is a really important shared interest here, a

:57:23.:57:25.

lot of goodwill on both sides to make sure the best possible deal is

:57:26.:57:30.

struck. Thank you very much, Damian Heinz, employment Minister.

:57:31.:57:36.

Still to come: As one of his last acts as president, Barack Obama has

:57:37.:57:43.

commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning. We will get some reaction

:57:44.:57:49.

to that decision. Let's get the latest weather with Carol, looking

:57:50.:57:52.

divine is always! Back at you!

:57:53.:57:58.

We have had a real difference up and down the country, -7 two plus nine,

:57:59.:58:08.

and even now, we have quite a difference, currently -6 in Kent, -3

:58:09.:58:14.

in Reading, plus three in Plymouth, move further north and we are

:58:15.:58:18.

looking at a real change, because in Edinburgh it is nine, as it is in

:58:19.:58:24.

Stornoway. Under the clear skies, it is cold. We have a lot of cloud

:58:25.:58:29.

around. This picture scented earlier by one of our weather watchers from

:58:30.:58:33.

Staffordshire, and another one showing parts of Wales. What we have

:58:34.:58:39.

is a weather front straight across parts of Wales, the Midlands and

:58:40.:58:42.

Lincolnshire producing sicker cloud and also light rain and drizzle, but

:58:43.:58:48.

we have the clearer skies, allowing temperatures to be so low in the

:58:49.:58:58.

South. This large area of low pressure in the Mediterranean, very

:58:59.:59:00.

unsubtle is, bringing snow across parts of low levels. We have no snow

:59:01.:59:07.

in our forecast, but we are dragging in this cold air from the near

:59:08.:59:11.

continent, elsewhere we have the milder south-westerly is, so more

:59:12.:59:14.

cloud and also some higher temperatures as we go through the

:59:15.:59:18.

course of the day. For many of us, it will amend fairly cloudy, our

:59:19.:59:24.

weather front fizzling in situ, so we will lose a lot of the patchy

:59:25.:59:28.

rain and drizzle, it will just remain around the Windward Coast,

:59:29.:59:33.

and from the South West all the way up to East Anglia, we hang onto that

:59:34.:59:38.

sunshine. Into the afternoon, he is the sunshine, maximum temperature in

:59:39.:59:43.

Barnstaple, eight Celsius, five in Southampton, only four in London. So

:59:44.:59:49.

it will still feel cold. More cloud building across Norfolk and the

:59:50.:59:52.

Midlands through the afternoon, but you can see a lot of cloud as we

:59:53.:59:56.

move north across the rest of England. More persistent rain across

:59:57.:00:04.

Shetland. North-east Scotland will see some breaks, but the Northern

:00:05.:00:08.

Ireland, you will remain fairly cloudy through the day, any bright

:00:09.:00:13.

spells will be at a premium. In Wales, a lot of cloud in the wake of

:00:14.:00:17.

that weather front, the odd spot of rain possible particularly around

:00:18.:00:21.

the coast. Through this evening and overnight, it would be quite as cold

:00:22.:00:25.

as the night just gone, but it still is going to be cold enough for some

:00:26.:00:30.

frost, again some mist and fog patches likely. Still damp along the

:00:31.:00:36.

coast, so milder as we travel further north, still cold in the

:00:37.:00:40.

South itself, but again tomorrow morning there will be some bright

:00:41.:00:44.

skies, sunshine coming through, we lose the mist and fog patches, and

:00:45.:00:48.

again tomorrow there will still be a lot of cloud, but a better chance of

:00:49.:00:54.

seeing some breaks across Wales, Northern Ireland and parts of

:00:55.:00:57.

north-east England, in the shelter of the Pennines. Temperatures, we

:00:58.:01:03.

have been used ten and 11, but they are coming down a touch, Norwich

:01:04.:01:07.

only looking at five, and then if we take a quick look at what is

:01:08.:01:11.

happening on Friday, again quite a lot of cloud around, more in the

:01:12.:01:15.

south, but still the Fasan seeing some sunshine. Temperatures closer

:01:16.:01:18.

to where they should be the January. A partial victory for a wheel care

:01:19.:01:36.

user who tried to get on a bus, but couldn't. We will be live outside

:01:37.:01:42.

the Supreme Court in a moment. The Brexit Secretary believes he can

:01:43.:01:47.

deliver the best deal for Britain on leaving the EU. It is in everybody's

:01:48.:01:52.

interest to get a good deal. There are ?290 billion of exports from

:01:53.:01:56.

Europe to us every year, cars, pharmaceuticals, food, you name it.

:01:57.:01:59.

They want to keep that as much as we do.

:02:00.:02:06.

If you're helping look after your grandchildren

:02:07.:02:08.

and you're under 65 - you might be one of thousands

:02:09.:02:10.

of grandparents missing out on a special government scheme

:02:11.:02:13.

We'll bring you the details. Right, let's go live to the Supreme

:02:14.:02:24.

Court where Clive Coleman can tell us what happened. Well, this case

:02:25.:02:29.

that Doug Paulley a wheelchair user started in 2012 has reached the

:02:30.:02:33.

highest court in the land. Doug Paulley tried to get on a bus in

:02:34.:02:38.

Wetherby in 2012. He is a wheelchair user and couldn't get into the

:02:39.:02:41.

dedicated wheelchair space because there was a mother with a buggy in

:02:42.:02:47.

that space. The driver of the bus, the bus was operated by First Group,

:02:48.:02:53.

the bus driver asked the woman to move, and she declined. Doug Paulley

:02:54.:03:00.

had to get off the bus and he was delayed. Initially Doug Paulley sued

:03:01.:03:05.

and got a ruling that the policy that First Bus operates of

:03:06.:03:08.

requesting, but not requiring someone to move from the wheelchair

:03:09.:03:16.

space was unlawful disability discrimination. The Court of Appeal

:03:17.:03:21.

said there was no legal duty to make someone move. The court has come to

:03:22.:03:25.

the Supreme Court and Doug Paulley won a ruling that the policy of

:03:26.:03:30.

simply requesting is not sufficient to fulfil the duties of the bus

:03:31.:03:34.

company under the Equality Act. The reason we say it is a partial

:03:35.:03:39.

victory is that the ruling doesn't mean that the bus company must make

:03:40.:03:44.

someone move from that space. They have no real power to do that, but

:03:45.:03:49.

what the judge who gave the lead judgement in the case said today is

:03:50.:03:55.

that requesting is not enough. If someone unreasonably refuses to move

:03:56.:03:59.

from that wheelchair space then the driver has to do more than simply

:04:00.:04:04.

request. He has to for instance turn his request into a requirement at

:04:05.:04:08.

least saying you must move from that space, although he can't physically

:04:09.:04:11.

eject someone from the space. He may also perhaps stop the bus for a

:04:12.:04:15.

number of minutes. The judge said to shame the person who is in the

:04:16.:04:22.

wheelchair space into moving. It is a partial victory and it will be

:04:23.:04:26.

watched very, very carefully by service providers around the

:04:27.:04:29.

country, we are talking about supermarkets with disabled space and

:04:30.:04:33.

train companies with disabled toilets, anywhere where there is a

:04:34.:04:37.

dedicated wheelchair space, service providers will have to do more than

:04:38.:04:40.

simply ask people who are able-bodied or not in a wheelchair

:04:41.:04:45.

to move and to vacate the spaces, they will have to up the ante, this

:04:46.:04:50.

judgement could cause confusion with service providers not quite sure how

:04:51.:04:54.

far they have to go to enforce what is a lawful policy of trying to move

:04:55.:04:59.

people out of dedicated wheelchair spaces. So a partial victory for

:05:00.:05:03.

Doug Paulley. He will be, I think, very pleased with this in so far as

:05:04.:05:08.

it goes. Unfortunately, for him, the court did not award damages. He had

:05:09.:05:19.

won ?55500 in damages. He has not been awarded damages and he will be

:05:20.:05:22.

disappointed, but pleased with the principle that simply requesting

:05:23.:05:25.

someone to move is not enough. Cheers, Clive. We will hear from

:05:26.:05:32.

Doug Paulley because's the Supreme Court. If you are a bus driver, how

:05:33.:05:35.

do you react to this judgement then? You have to do more than request

:05:36.:05:39.

that a mum or dad with a buggy move out of the space for wheelchairs,

:05:40.:05:43.

what does that mean, does it mean getting out of your cab and having a

:05:44.:05:47.

reasonable conversation? How would you interpret that? Let me know.

:05:48.:05:51.

We'll bring you the rest of the news now. Here is Joanna.

:05:52.:05:55.

In the past hour, it's been revealed that there are now more

:05:56.:05:58.

than a thousand cases of allegations of historical child

:05:59.:06:00.

The figures come from the National Police Chiefs' Council.

:06:01.:06:04.

The estimated number of victims now stands at over 500.

:06:05.:06:08.

Unemployment has plunged to its lowest total for more

:06:09.:06:10.

than a decade, but the number of people in work has also fallen.

:06:11.:06:15.

Figures from the Office for National Statistics show that UK

:06:16.:06:17.

unemployment fell by 52,000 to 1.6 million in three

:06:18.:06:20.

But the numbers in work fell by 9,000 to 31.8 million,

:06:21.:06:26.

The Employment Minister said the figures were positive. The number of

:06:27.:06:35.

unemployed people is down somewhat and the rate is still at its 11-year

:06:36.:06:42.

low. The employment rate is still at its record high. So this is a good

:06:43.:06:45.

start to the year. Southern says it will restore a full

:06:46.:06:58.

train service from next week now that ASLEF has suss spended action.

:06:59.:07:03.

The union is in dispute with Southern's parent company GTR over

:07:04.:07:06.

the role of conductors on driver-only operated trains.

:07:07.:07:10.

Amounting to Britain's worst rail strikes in 20 years.

:07:11.:07:14.

The Foreign Secretary has said countries are "queuing up" to sign

:07:15.:07:17.

free trade deals with Britain when it leaves the European Union

:07:18.:07:21.

Boris Johnson also suggests that agreements could be achieved quickly

:07:22.:07:23.

after the Article 50 negotiations are concluded.

:07:24.:07:25.

Mr Johnson is currently on a visit to India and praised

:07:26.:07:28.

I think that the Prime Minister set out a very powerful,

:07:29.:07:35.

a very positive vision yesterday for how we can do a deal, that

:07:36.:07:38.

will not just benefit our friends in the rest of the EU,

:07:39.:07:45.

but also drive growth in the rest of the world and one of the points

:07:46.:07:49.

I will be making here in India is that we think we can do free

:07:50.:07:52.

trade deals which will be for the benefit of both our

:07:53.:07:55.

countries, both Britain and India as well.

:07:56.:07:57.

Mobile operator EE has been fined ?2.7 million for overcharging tens

:07:58.:08:01.

The penalty, imposed by telecoms regulator Ofcom

:08:02.:08:04.

after an investigation, found that the UK's biggest mobile

:08:05.:08:07.

network broke a billing rule on two occasions,

:08:08.:08:08.

overcharging customers using the 150 customer services

:08:09.:08:11.

number within the EU, and billing them even

:08:12.:08:13.

EE has apologised and says it has put measures in place to prevent

:08:14.:08:24.

President Obama has cut the sentence of Chelsea Manning,

:08:25.:08:34.

who was jailed for 35 years for leaking intelligence secrets.

:08:35.:08:37.

Manning's supporters have campaigned for years for her release,

:08:38.:08:41.

maintaining she's a whistle-blower and not a traitor.

:08:42.:08:43.

The former military analyst, who was born Bradley Manning but had

:08:44.:08:45.

hormone therapy in prison, will be released in May.

:08:46.:08:49.

Thomas Cook is preparing to bring thousands of British

:08:50.:08:52.

holiday-makers home from Gambia because of a worsening

:08:53.:08:54.

The Foreign Office is advising people to avoid all but essential

:08:55.:09:00.

travel to the country after its President refused

:09:01.:09:02.

to step down and declared a state of emergency.

:09:03.:09:04.

Thomas Cook said it was implementing contingency plans to bring home

:09:05.:09:07.

all its UK customers on additional flights over the next 48 hours.

:09:08.:09:16.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:09:17.:09:18.

Where else should I start, but tennis?

:09:19.:09:34.

British number three Dan Evans is 2-1 up

:09:35.:09:36.

against Marin Cilic in the second round of the Australian Open.

:09:37.:09:39.

Seventh seed Cilic took the first set, but Evans took the second

:09:40.:09:49.

Commentary from Melbourne is on 5 live sports extra.

:09:50.:09:52.

Andy Murray is on court shortly against Russian

:09:53.:09:54.

The non-league side beat Ipswich Town of the Championship

:09:55.:09:59.

1-0 in their FA Cup third round replay.

:10:00.:10:03.

The first time they've got this far since Graham Taylor

:10:04.:10:05.

The drama was left until the 91st minute

:10:06.:10:12.

when Nathan Arnold scored a well-deserved winner for Lincoln,

:10:13.:10:15.

who'll be at home to Brighton in the fourth round.

:10:16.:10:21.

People talk about the finances, but for me, football is not about money,

:10:22.:10:26.

it is about the moment. It is about nights like this. It's about the

:10:27.:10:30.

smiles on people's faces. That's what football is about. So, you

:10:31.:10:36.

know, that to me has been the great part of this journey.

:10:37.:10:40.

And another non-league side, Sutton United, also made it through.

:10:41.:10:43.

They beat League One's AFC Wimbledon 3-1 in their replay.

:10:44.:10:46.

That earned Sutton a lucrative televised tie at home

:10:47.:10:50.

I thought our supporters were magnificent. They stuck with us.

:10:51.:11:01.

What a reward for them. And really, you know, this team, it is just a

:11:02.:11:06.

fantastic group of players. A great spirit amongst them and they deserve

:11:07.:11:08.

all the credit. Manchester City midfielder

:11:09.:11:13.

Yaya Toure has turned down ?430,000 a week to play

:11:14.:11:21.

for a Chinese club. It's the second time a club

:11:22.:11:23.

in the Chinese Super League has His contract at Manchester City runs

:11:24.:11:26.

out at the end of the season but it's believed he wants to stay

:11:27.:11:30.

in the Premier League. Europe's captain will be able

:11:31.:11:33.

to choose four players for next Thomas Bjorn will get to pick one

:11:34.:11:36.

more player than Darren Clarke It's part of a revamp

:11:37.:11:40.

of the qualifying system after Europe lost heavily

:11:41.:11:43.

to the United States in Hazeltine. England women head coach

:11:44.:11:47.

Simon Middleton has included four new faces in his 33-player squad

:11:48.:11:50.

for the Six Nations. England host defending

:11:51.:11:53.

champions France in their It's a tournament that should see

:11:54.:11:58.

Tamara Taylor win her 100th cap - and one that she thinks is ideal

:11:59.:12:05.

preparation for the World Our family is back together as a

:12:06.:12:15.

whole. The Six Nations is an amaying tournament because you get to have

:12:16.:12:17.

an international nearly every week that you don't get in any other

:12:18.:12:21.

tournament for us. So that's going to be a huge preparation. Again, we

:12:22.:12:24.

get to play some of the top teams in the world.

:12:25.:12:32.

On update on the tennis, Dan Evans 2-1 set up in his second round tie

:12:33.:12:37.

and it is going with serve in the fourth set. It is 1-1. Andy Murray

:12:38.:12:42.

will be on court later. That's all the sport for now.

:12:43.:12:47.

Wheelchair Doug Paulley has partially won his court at the

:12:48.:12:51.

Supreme Court against a bus operator after he tried to get on a bus, but

:12:52.:12:55.

couldn't because a buggy was in the way. The court decided that non des

:12:56.:12:59.

abled people occupying a wheelchair space can't be forced to move by

:13:00.:13:04.

law, but said bus drivers must do much more to try to sort the problem

:13:05.:13:06.

out. Let's talk now to four people

:13:07.:13:15.

who say their disability has meant they've struggled with accessibility

:13:16.:13:18.

on public transport. Will Pike had an incident just this

:13:19.:13:20.

week on a bus where the ramp Romina Puma, like Doug Paulley,

:13:21.:13:23.

has been refused bus rides in the past because of pushchairs

:13:24.:13:26.

in the disabled space. Zoe Williams says one in ten trips

:13:27.:13:29.

on public transport feel Samantha Renke says every day feels

:13:30.:13:32.

like a Tube strike for her. Goodness me. OK, let's talk about

:13:33.:13:39.

what happened at the Supreme Court. Your reaction that bus drivers they

:13:40.:13:44.

have to do a little bit more than request that someone moves the buggy

:13:45.:13:50.

from the wheelchair space by might mean finding another space or

:13:51.:13:53.

shaming the person that won't move the buggy, what do you think, Zoe? I

:13:54.:13:58.

think the whole point of this case was to try and get a little bit more

:13:59.:14:02.

clarity about how far bus drivers are meant to go in terms of

:14:03.:14:05.

requiring people to move out of the space. I'm not sure this ruling has

:14:06.:14:10.

actually provided that clarity. You're smiling. Go on, Will? Zoe

:14:11.:14:18.

should continue. I think she hit the nail on the head. We were seeking

:14:19.:14:24.

some clarity. Doug has done an incredible job in bringing this

:14:25.:14:29.

issue to light and to the mainstream media's attention and at the end of

:14:30.:14:33.

it, there is no news. It is back to square one. People are going to be

:14:34.:14:38.

searching for some grey air offia truth this this. Can you envisage

:14:39.:14:43.

being on a bus, we have got this, whatever this is, this judgement,

:14:44.:14:47.

this ruling, and there is a buggy there. What happens? I mean, I

:14:48.:14:55.

normally ask the buggy to move, that's always a bit awkward. I never

:14:56.:15:00.

once had a bus driver come to the area and ask for that to be moved.

:15:01.:15:04.

It is normally myself or somebody who I'm with. That can just be a bit

:15:05.:15:08.

awkward. Particularly when it is a full bus. It has been raining

:15:09.:15:11.

outside, but I need to get on that bus because like everyone else I

:15:12.:15:15.

have got a job and I have got to go places. I can't just wait outside

:15:16.:15:19.

for three or four buses and that has actually happened. I have been

:15:20.:15:24.

waiting for several buses. Clive Coleman was suggesting that, you

:15:25.:15:28.

know, the bus driver will sort of call out the parent who has got the

:15:29.:15:32.

buggy in the wheelchair space and try and shame them in some way. Is

:15:33.:15:35.

that going to work? No, it is not going to work because it happened in

:15:36.:15:40.

the past. When they asked the mums or the parents to fold up the prams

:15:41.:15:45.

they say no, I'm not going to do it and the driver looks at me and says,

:15:46.:15:50.

they don't want to do it. What can I do? Well, I need to get on a bus

:15:51.:15:55.

too. He can fold up the pram. I can't. It is just a priority and

:15:56.:16:02.

also, all those signs there, priority wheelchairs, it is just

:16:03.:16:08.

like, it is like an ornament. The creation. The gesture. Just get rid

:16:09.:16:13.

of them and put some adverts instead. It is misleading, I don't

:16:14.:16:16.

think it is fair. I was recently on a train with the

:16:17.:16:28.

same scenario, I couldn't get to a wheelchair space because people had

:16:29.:16:32.

left their baggage all over. The sign said, priority by law. But if

:16:33.:16:37.

it is by law, why isn't it being enforced? Why are people putting

:16:38.:16:43.

their stuff there? I think attitudes towards disability needs to change.

:16:44.:16:47.

Do think there hasn't been much progress. I think there has in some

:16:48.:16:52.

areas, but people still don't realise that we are like everyone

:16:53.:16:58.

else, we have jobs, places to be. We are not going to just sit at home,

:16:59.:17:02.

and that is where people need to change their mentality. Disabled

:17:03.:17:06.

people should be thought of as integral parts of the community, and

:17:07.:17:10.

not someone that is just sitting at home feeling sorry for themselves,

:17:11.:17:13.

because that is completely not the case. Tell me about the ramp

:17:14.:17:17.

incident, well. It wasn't within the last week, but we were talking about

:17:18.:17:23.

this in the Green room before. All of us have a situation where the

:17:24.:17:31.

ramp has broken. I have cleared a bus load of passengers on a Monday

:17:32.:17:35.

morning rush-hour, and what that taps into family is the amount of

:17:36.:17:38.

confidence and mental, emotional strength it takes just to leave the

:17:39.:17:42.

house and accomplish things that would be quite straightforward for

:17:43.:17:48.

able-bodied people. And it is just that lack of empathy sometimes and

:17:49.:17:52.

humanity within a situation that means you are left with the Khyber

:17:53.:17:58.

of -- a type of conflict that nobody wants to have. In dog's case, it is

:17:59.:18:04.

an example of how far people want to take it, but he is not saying that

:18:05.:18:08.

everybody should have to go down this path, because for years is far

:18:09.:18:14.

too long for the process, and the outcome has undermined a lot of the

:18:15.:18:18.

work it has been doing. Certain charities like Scope who have been

:18:19.:18:24.

supporting his case I left going, where does this leave us? Because we

:18:25.:18:28.

had a response. And bus operators will be thinking that. Zoe, it seems

:18:29.:18:33.

what we are talking about here is not only a shift in the minds of

:18:34.:18:38.

able-bodied people, but also still it is clear facilities which are

:18:39.:18:43.

supposed to be there for people using wheelchairs are not, or if

:18:44.:18:47.

they are, they are not functioning properly. I think that's true. If

:18:48.:18:53.

you look at the design of most public transport, it is not designed

:18:54.:18:54.

with wheelchair users in mind. There public transport, it is not designed

:18:55.:18:59.

is provision made for wheelchair users within a design primarily

:19:00.:19:03.

aimed at non-wheelchair users, so you will always be an afterthought,

:19:04.:19:07.

whereas a better design would be one that actually takes the idea that

:19:08.:19:13.

wheelchair users do need to use this facility, and adopt that into the

:19:14.:19:16.

central part of the design rather than putting a space in afterwards.

:19:17.:19:20.

On trains, for example, there isn't enough space for luggage and

:19:21.:19:25.

wheelchairs, so luggage tends to take priority, because more people

:19:26.:19:28.

have luggage, but it doesn't have to be that way. If there was more

:19:29.:19:31.

space, we wouldn't have this conflict. If some bosses had space

:19:32.:19:36.

for wheelchairs and pushchairs, there would be less of a problem.

:19:37.:19:41.

Let me read you some comments from people around the country. They are

:19:42.:19:45.

not also pathetic. They are not rude, but they are not all

:19:46.:19:51.

sympathetic. Iris, I am a mother of three who tries to use as much

:19:52.:19:54.

public transport as possible. The question is not whether a wheelchair

:19:55.:19:57.

user should always have the right to get a space on the bus. If there is

:19:58.:20:02.

a parent with one child, of course they can collapse the Bushchan hold

:20:03.:20:05.

their child, but what about a mother with a toddler and a newborn. How is

:20:06.:20:10.

she supposed to have both on her lap and left a heavy pram? What she has

:20:11.:20:17.

tried to do with that, comment is generate some sort of sympathy

:20:18.:20:21.

towards her plight. We get it, that particular journey might become

:20:22.:20:24.

difficult for you, and what we are saying is, there are probably

:20:25.:20:29.

countless journeys where these interactions take place, and they

:20:30.:20:32.

are Ogleby handled sensibly. This type of debate, pushchairs versus

:20:33.:20:40.

wheelchairs, doesn't help, it is not about these people. I cannot in all

:20:41.:20:44.

honesty CYA adult in a wheelchair has any more right to use the space

:20:45.:20:52.

provided, this comment says. If mothers with pushchairs didn't

:20:53.:20:58.

campaign to create wheelchair spaces within public transport, people with

:20:59.:21:02.

wheelchairs did. And that is the only place where a person with a

:21:03.:21:06.

wheelchair can sit on the bus. I was on a bus last week with a mother and

:21:07.:21:11.

two very young Jordan, and other passengers on the bus helped her

:21:12.:21:15.

arrange the children in a way that was safe. I find it generally 95% of

:21:16.:21:21.

the time, people on the bus are helpful and will help someone in

:21:22.:21:26.

difficulty, but it is a pain to have to rely on the goodwill of others,

:21:27.:21:29.

and I understand that, but we have to rely on the goodwill of others

:21:30.:21:33.

100% of the time. People need to take a turn. What I found really

:21:34.:21:41.

heartbreaking with the stories about the trains and now today with this,

:21:42.:21:45.

I get messages from a number of people with different impairments,

:21:46.:21:50.

and they say, this is why I don't go on public transport, I am too

:21:51.:21:53.

scared. Being disabled can be isolating enough without thinking,

:21:54.:21:59.

my goodness, I don't even want to get on a bus and go to the shops. I

:22:00.:22:04.

think that is what we need to look at. To be terrified to just get on a

:22:05.:22:12.

bus, which body else can take for granted. This person says, and

:22:13.:22:16.

forcing disabled spaces on buses is easy. Stop the bus until the selfish

:22:17.:22:23.

person complies, either out of shame, or peer pressure from other

:22:24.:22:28.

passengers. The driver turned the engine off and says, right, we are

:22:29.:22:32.

not going anywhere until you move. Someone is going to do that! One of

:22:33.:22:39.

the things that happened to me was I had my scooter, and it was late at

:22:40.:22:43.

night, I was tired, it was raining and cold, I just wanted to go home,

:22:44.:22:48.

and the driver didn't let me on the bus because he said that the scooter

:22:49.:22:53.

wasn't in the specification to be allowed on a bus, it was too big. It

:22:54.:23:00.

is, I checked three times. So I was very sure that it could go on, so I

:23:01.:23:07.

was thinking, I should go just in front of the bus and stop the bus.

:23:08.:23:13.

What stop to taking that action? There was no slope to go down! But

:23:14.:23:20.

in the end, what I did, she didn't let me on, and I managed to catch

:23:21.:23:24.

the following one which was faster than the first one, so I got to my

:23:25.:23:28.

stop and I waited for her, and I knocked, and I wanted the details to

:23:29.:23:33.

do a complaint, but she didn't open the door, she just went off. That

:23:34.:23:38.

was the worst experience I had. I can see Clive Coleman has hotfooted

:23:39.:23:42.

it to outside of the Supreme Court to fill us in about this partial

:23:43.:23:47.

judgment. We have been reacting to that in the studio here, Clive. A

:23:48.:23:52.

partial victory is probably a better way to describe it. This battle by

:23:53.:23:58.

Doug Paulley, this legal battle which started when he simply try to

:23:59.:24:02.

get on a bus in 2012 to go from Wetherby to Leeds, and there was a

:24:03.:24:07.

policy on the bus operator at the time which was to request but not

:24:08.:24:11.

require a non-wheelchair user to vacate the wheelchair space. That

:24:12.:24:16.

policy has been at the centre of this legal battle. Doug Paulley

:24:17.:24:23.

initially won a victory that that policy was disability

:24:24.:24:25.

discrimination, that was reversed by the Court of Appeal, it has come to

:24:26.:24:29.

the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court today have ruled that that

:24:30.:24:32.

policy of requested that someone move from that space doesn't go far

:24:33.:24:38.

enough. Doug Paulley has won a victory that means the bus companies

:24:39.:24:42.

simply will have to do more. We will talk about exactly what I have to do

:24:43.:24:46.

by way of further action in a moment, but first of all let's talk

:24:47.:24:56.

to Doug. Five years, you just try to get on a bus! Yes, who would have

:24:57.:25:01.

thought that five years on I would still be discussing that day I tried

:25:02.:25:05.

to go to my parents' for lunch! I was an hour late, my mum and dad

:25:06.:25:11.

have been at every hearing since, and my mother very suddenly died

:25:12.:25:14.

last summer and didn't get to see the end of this. She has been with

:25:15.:25:20.

me all the way. It has just been amazing, the amount of support but I

:25:21.:25:24.

have had off so many people, disabled people, organisations,

:25:25.:25:29.

lawyers, family, allies, and this hopefully is going to make a major

:25:30.:25:32.

difference to disabled people's travel. Perhaps it didn't go quite

:25:33.:25:38.

as far as you had wanted. It seems to be reading the judgment that what

:25:39.:25:44.

is being said is that drivers will have to put some pressure on the

:25:45.:25:48.

person who is within the space to move, but they can't physically move

:25:49.:25:53.

them, there is no legal duty which means that operators have the right

:25:54.:25:58.

to remove somebody, to kick them out of that space, but they have to do

:25:59.:26:01.

more than they currently do? Not all of the Justices agreed, at least one

:26:02.:26:08.

said there was the power to do that. So there was a significant agreement

:26:09.:26:13.

on some details. In any case, these things are always a matter of

:26:14.:26:17.

judgment. Drivers have to judge how to react to somebody smoking or

:26:18.:26:21.

causing a disturbance or eating smelly food, the famous kebabs that

:26:22.:26:27.

has appeared in every hearing. So there always has to be some

:26:28.:26:31.

judgment, and there will always be some exceptional circumstances where

:26:32.:26:35.

somebody can't be expected to move out of the space. But what this

:26:36.:26:39.

judgment means is that the driver has to make their own decision as to

:26:40.:26:46.

whether or not the person is being unreasonable in refusing to move,

:26:47.:26:51.

and if they are, he or she has to tell them that they are required to

:26:52.:26:56.

move, and if necessary reviews to move the bus until they shift. So I

:26:57.:27:04.

think that is very clear. Lets talk to Chris Fryer, your solicitor, who

:27:05.:27:07.

has been fighting this case right the way through the entire English

:27:08.:27:11.

legal system, in just about every court! Chris, just explain. Some

:27:12.:27:16.

people will think this will cause more confusion, because drivers

:27:17.:27:19.

perhaps won't know how to put pressure or how much pressure to put

:27:20.:27:23.

on somebody to move, and you could be in a worse position than you were

:27:24.:27:27.

before. It is difficult to see how it could be worse than anybody. This

:27:28.:27:33.

is a fairly clear judgment from the Supreme Court, that the policy of

:27:34.:27:38.

requested retreat, the driver asking someone to move and then washing

:27:39.:27:42.

their hands on it, is a dead policy. Bus companies should now be

:27:43.:27:48.

operating to the Paulley principle, which is... Doug, you have a

:27:49.:27:58.

principle named after you! It is quite a name. So many people have

:27:59.:28:02.

done so much, this is only that have done it on my own. Chris, explaining

:28:03.:28:08.

detail what the principle is. It is fairly straightforward, if you are a

:28:09.:28:12.

disable passenger, you have enforceable rights over that space.

:28:13.:28:16.

The Supreme Court agreed unanimously that that was the case. Whether

:28:17.:28:22.

judgment falls short, and we clearly there was a dispute between three of

:28:23.:28:31.

the Supremes in particular, is there is no writers things currently stand

:28:32.:28:35.

to force someone off a bus, so it goes as far as that, but not that

:28:36.:28:40.

far yet. Yet, because we know that Parliament has been looking at the

:28:41.:28:43.

outcome of the case and is looking at legislating to give clarity over

:28:44.:28:50.

those additional rights, so Doug has changed everything for disabled

:28:51.:28:53.

passengers. He has changed the culture, and it looks as though the

:28:54.:28:57.

decision in the fullness of time will achieve the change reality for.

:28:58.:29:00.

And a quick word with Robin Allen QC. He is your barrister throughout

:29:01.:29:06.

this battle. How far do you think this principle extends in terms of

:29:07.:29:09.

service providers, talking about disabled parking spaces in

:29:10.:29:12.

supermarkets, disabled toilets on trains. What are service providers

:29:13.:29:16.

going to have to do in terms of looking at their policies? They have

:29:17.:29:21.

to take on board that the equality at how is this principle of

:29:22.:29:23.

reasonable adjustment, and that means that they must try and give

:29:24.:29:28.

equal access to their services to disabled people. That is why we have

:29:29.:29:34.

disabled car parking spaces close to the door of a supermarket, why they

:29:35.:29:39.

are wider so that doors can be opened, and so on. And they should

:29:40.:29:43.

have a policy to prevent people blocking those spaces, and they will

:29:44.:29:48.

need to think how they will do it. They might need a parking attendant

:29:49.:29:51.

or somebody in the supermarket who was willing to go out and say, not

:29:52.:29:57.

in that space, move over. And to put some serious moral pressure on to

:29:58.:30:05.

the ordinary walking public, to ensure that the disabled public have

:30:06.:30:10.

equal access to goods and services. Doug, a final thought from you. You

:30:11.:30:17.

said your mother had followed this process right the way through, and

:30:18.:30:22.

she wasn't here to see it, but she will know now wherever she is that

:30:23.:30:28.

the Paulley has been well and truly a stab wished! She was a wonderful

:30:29.:30:36.

lady, I have been incredibly lucky to have that support, so God bless

:30:37.:30:49.

you, Mum. So the principle has been established, it is a wake-up call

:30:50.:30:51.

for service providers around the country that they will have to look

:30:52.:30:54.

at policies in relation to wheelchair users and make sure that

:30:55.:30:57.

those policies are sound and properly enforced.

:30:58.:31:04.

Doug Paulley was more positive than we were initially were. Is that

:31:05.:31:15.

fair? Yes, he is quite positive. I'm still not so positive. I want to see

:31:16.:31:26.

what changes they're going to make. With muscular dystrophy UK we do a

:31:27.:31:31.

campaign and we work with TfL and we are happy to work with them even

:31:32.:31:35.

more to make them understand what we really need. Thank you very much.

:31:36.:31:39.

Thank you cord coming on the programme. Nice to meet you. Thank

:31:40.:31:40.

you. Still to come, we'll be finding out

:31:41.:31:46.

how thousands of grandparents could be missing out on a special

:31:47.:31:48.

government scheme designed to reimburse them for looking

:31:49.:31:51.

after their grandchildren. And we're expecting to hear

:31:52.:31:53.

from European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker

:31:54.:31:55.

at the European Parliament after Theresa May revealed her

:31:56.:31:56.

government's Brexit plans. With the news, here's Joanna

:31:57.:32:07.

in the BBC Newsroom. Wheelchair user Doug Paulley has

:32:08.:32:11.

partially won his case at the Supreme Court against bus

:32:12.:32:15.

operator First Group PLC. The case was triggered

:32:16.:32:19.

when Doug Paulley attempted to board a bus in 2012 but was unable

:32:20.:32:23.

to when a woman refused The court unanimously allowed

:32:24.:32:25.

the appeal, but to a limited extent. Doug told our programme

:32:26.:32:29.

he welcomes the decision. It's just been amazing the amount of

:32:30.:32:40.

support that I've had of so many people, disabled people,

:32:41.:32:43.

organisations, lawyers, family, allies, and you know, this hopefully

:32:44.:32:48.

is going to make a major difference to disabled people's travel. It's

:32:49.:32:49.

brilliant. The Foreign Secretary has said

:32:50.:32:53.

countries are "queuing up" to sign free trade deals with Britain

:32:54.:32:56.

when it leaves the European Union Boris Johnson also suggests that

:32:57.:32:58.

agreements could be achieved quickly after the Article 50

:32:59.:33:01.

negotiations are concluded. Mr Johnson, who is currently

:33:02.:33:02.

in India on his first official visit, praised Theresa

:33:03.:33:05.

May's Brexit speech. It's been revealed that there

:33:06.:33:10.

are now more than a thousand cases of allegations of historical child

:33:11.:33:15.

sexual abuse in football. The figures come from

:33:16.:33:18.

the National Police Chiefs' Council. The estimated number of victims

:33:19.:33:21.

now stands at over 500. Unemployment has plunged

:33:22.:33:26.

to its lowest total for more than a decade, but the number

:33:27.:33:30.

of people in work has also fallen. Figures from the Office

:33:31.:33:33.

for National Statistics show that unemployment fell by 52,000

:33:34.:33:35.

to 1.6 million in three Southern has said it

:33:36.:33:37.

will restore a full train service from next Tuesday,

:33:38.:33:47.

now that the train driver's union Aslef has suspended

:33:48.:33:50.

its industrial action. The announcement comes after talks

:33:51.:33:52.

this morning between the two sides. The union is in dispute

:33:53.:33:54.

with Southern's parent company GTR over the role of conductors

:33:55.:33:57.

on driver-only operated trains, amounting to Britain's worst rail

:33:58.:33:59.

strikes in 20 years. Thomas Cook is bringing thousands

:34:00.:34:08.

of British holiday-makers home from the Gambia

:34:09.:34:11.

because of a worsening The Foreign Office is advising

:34:12.:34:13.

people to avoid all but essential travel to the country,

:34:14.:34:17.

after its President refused to step down and declared

:34:18.:34:20.

a state of emergency. A team from Thomas Cook

:34:21.:34:23.

is expected to arrive The travel operator has five flights

:34:24.:34:26.

coming back to the UK today. Join me for BBC

:34:27.:34:33.

Newsroom live at 11am. Reaction from the family of US

:34:34.:34:48.

soldier Chelsea Manning, formerly known as Bradley Manningment you may

:34:49.:34:54.

have heard that President Obama, has reduced Chelsea Manning's sentence

:34:55.:34:57.

in jail for leaking thousands and thousands of classified documents.

:34:58.:35:01.

The Welsh family of Chelsea Manning say they are overjoyed that Chelsea

:35:02.:35:05.

will soon be free adding, "We hope that Chelsea will be able to get on

:35:06.:35:09.

with the rest of her life and that she finds happiness and fulfilment

:35:10.:35:12.

in whatever she chooses to do. There will always be a welcome for her

:35:13.:35:18.

here in Wales." ." More reaction to that reduction in sentence after the

:35:19.:35:19.

sport. Dan Evans is 2-1 up against seventh

:35:20.:35:27.

seed Marin Cilic in the second Evans lost the first set 3-6,

:35:28.:35:30.

but fought back to take It's currently 4-3

:35:31.:35:34.

with Evans a break up Non-league Lincoln City beat

:35:35.:35:49.

Championship side Ipswich Town 1-0 last night in their third round FA

:35:50.:35:52.

Cup replay. It's the first time they've got this

:35:53.:35:54.

far since the late Graham Taylor Another non-league side,

:35:55.:35:57.

Sutton United, also made it through. They beat League One AFC Wimbledon

:35:58.:36:00.

3-1 in their replay. They're at home to Leeds

:36:01.:36:02.

in the fourth round. Europe's captain will be able

:36:03.:36:05.

to choose four players for next It's part of a revamp

:36:06.:36:07.

of the qualifying system after Europe lost heavily

:36:08.:36:10.

to the United States in Hazeltine. England women head coach

:36:11.:36:13.

Simon Middleton has included four new faces in his 33-player squad

:36:14.:36:15.

for the Six Nations. England host defending

:36:16.:36:18.

champions France in their That's all the sport for now,

:36:19.:36:20.

Victoria. In one of his last acts

:36:21.:36:32.

as president, Barack Obama has reduced the sentence

:36:33.:36:34.

of Chelsea Manning for leaking Formerly known as Bradley Manning,

:36:35.:36:36.

was sentenced to thirty five years So who is Chelsea Manning

:36:37.:36:52.

and what has been the reaction President Obama's decision to cut

:36:53.:36:57.

Chelsea Manning's sentence has, as you might expect

:36:58.:37:35.

provoked strong views. The Speaker of the House

:37:36.:37:37.

of Representatives, Paul Ryan, condemned it saying

:37:38.:37:40.

Chelsea Manning's treachery put American lives at risk and exposed

:37:41.:37:44.

some of our nation's most sensitive The Wikileaks founder Julian Assange

:37:45.:37:46.

praised the move and thanked all those who'd campaigned

:37:47.:37:50.

for Manning's release. He said, "Your courage

:37:51.:37:59.

and determination made But pressure is growing

:38:00.:38:01.

on Mr Assange who has been living in London's Ecuadorian Embassy

:38:02.:38:05.

for more than four years. He had said last year

:38:06.:38:07.

that he would be prepared to hand himself over to the US

:38:08.:38:10.

for extradition if Chelsea A short time ago I spoke

:38:11.:38:12.

to Jeff Patterson who is the co-founder

:38:13.:38:15.

of the Chelsea Manning Support Network and Colonel Ann Wright,

:38:16.:38:17.

a campaigner and former US diplomat. I began by asking them

:38:18.:38:20.

for their reaction to the news I am thrilled that President Obama

:38:21.:38:23.

has taken the advice of hundreds of thousands of Americans,

:38:24.:38:35.

if not millions, to commute A sentence that was unbelievably

:38:36.:38:37.

long of 35 years, and she has So I, along with millions of people,

:38:38.:38:45.

am thrilled that Chelsea You are a former American Marine,

:38:46.:38:49.

you will have heard that Senator John McCain, chairman

:38:50.:39:02.

of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has described

:39:03.:39:05.

what Barack Obama has done as a grave mistake and fears it will

:39:06.:39:07.

encourage further acts of espionage. It is a slander

:39:08.:39:13.

against Chelsea Manning. She gave classified documents that

:39:14.:39:19.

should never have been Why is it her decision to take it

:39:20.:39:21.

upon herself to release them? Well, she took a stand

:39:22.:39:33.

of conscience, that is what people do throughout

:39:34.:39:35.

history, to make the world She paid for that

:39:36.:39:38.

dearly for seven years. We're delighted that she is not

:39:39.:39:46.

going to have to die in prison for what we believe was doing

:39:47.:39:49.

the right thing. John McCain said that what she did

:39:50.:39:54.

endangered the lives of American troops, diplomats

:39:55.:39:56.

and intelligence services. Yes, seven years later,

:39:57.:40:02.

you cannot point to a single person who died because

:40:03.:40:04.

of the information she provided. We have no idea if anybody died

:40:05.:40:09.

as a result of what she released. We've had seven years to find

:40:10.:40:14.

evidence that people were harmed because of that,

:40:15.:40:20.

and yet we have overwhelming The public's right to know

:40:21.:40:24.

what was happening with our tax dollars was served through her

:40:25.:40:33.

release of these documents. Does that mean that anyone

:40:34.:40:36.

in the armed forces in the States can steal and leak classified

:40:37.:40:39.

information if they declare it to be Indeed, they take the consequences

:40:40.:40:42.

for it, because it is a very strong act that a person does

:40:43.:40:50.

when they release But I want to add that

:40:51.:40:52.

Chelsea Manning's release of that information was investigated very

:40:53.:40:59.

thoroughly by the US military The US military said

:41:00.:41:01.

that there was no injury to any US person because of the disclosure

:41:02.:41:12.

of the information that she had put But she did apologise for "hurting

:41:13.:41:15.

the US" and said she had mistakenly thought she could change the world

:41:16.:41:24.

for the better. She also acknowledged

:41:25.:41:26.

she hurt the US. Each person must look at it

:41:27.:41:33.

in their own conscience. At that point, when she wrote that,

:41:34.:41:45.

she felt that in some ways she did hurt the United States,

:41:46.:41:49.

but I, as a 29-year military veteran, 16 years in the diplomatic

:41:50.:41:52.

corps, I think her act was one that helped the United States,

:41:53.:41:59.

it helped the United States face the criminal acts that

:42:00.:42:09.

its military had committed, and hopefully now the US

:42:10.:42:11.

military will not commit those same things that were shown

:42:12.:42:13.

by the materials that As a co-founder of the Chelsea

:42:14.:42:15.

Manning Support Network, Chelsea has had a very difficult

:42:16.:42:28.

time in jail, tell our British Chelsea Manning, formerly Bradley,

:42:29.:42:31.

she has begun transitioning The military has

:42:32.:42:41.

made it hell on her. That's led her to attempt

:42:42.:42:46.

suicide twice in the last A final thought

:42:47.:42:48.

about Edward Snowden. He also leaked thousands

:42:49.:42:58.

of documents, former US State employee, fled to Russia,

:42:59.:43:00.

arguably his leaks were more What might what has happened

:43:01.:43:02.

to Chelsea Manning, what might the implications

:43:03.:43:05.

for Edward Snowden be? He has done a remarkable thing

:43:06.:43:15.

for the world in the disclosure The disclosure of yet more criminal

:43:16.:43:19.

acts committed by the United States that involved the privacy

:43:20.:43:25.

of all of us, of the whole world. So I do not think he should be

:43:26.:43:31.

going to prison, I don't think he should go on trial,

:43:32.:43:35.

and I think he should stay in Russia until all of this is settled,

:43:36.:43:38.

because if he would return to the United States,

:43:39.:43:40.

he would be treated in the same brutal manner that Chelsea Manning

:43:41.:43:43.

has been treated. Let's talk to Frank Gardner, what

:43:44.:44:03.

are the implications of reducing this sentence? It is an incredibly

:44:04.:44:07.

polarized actment to many people this is a noble and right thing to

:44:08.:44:13.

do by and out going president, an act of clemency, he has been

:44:14.:44:18.

produced by Michael Moore and by WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden himself

:44:19.:44:21.

has praised it. A lot of people will think it is the right thing to do

:44:22.:44:25.

for somebody who is transgender and should never be as a woman in a

:44:26.:44:36.

men's prison in Kansas. To others, what BradleyManning who became

:44:37.:44:39.

Chelsea Manning is a traitor, somebody who put people's lives in

:44:40.:44:45.

danger and somebody who leaked 700,000 classified documents and

:44:46.:44:48.

essentially powered WikiLeaks to the state that it is in today. I think

:44:49.:44:55.

one of the biggest implications of this is that the US and other allied

:44:56.:45:01.

countries should never again get themselves into a position where

:45:02.:45:09.

somebody who is actually was a very junior intelligence analyst, Bradley

:45:10.:45:12.

Manning as he was then, now Chelsea Manning, was a private first class,

:45:13.:45:16.

that's a low rank and was given access to extraordinary amounts of

:45:17.:45:21.

diplomatic classified documents. What ambassadors were saying

:45:22.:45:24.

privately about people. Really embarrassing stuff, meetings they

:45:25.:45:30.

had with heads of state. Bradley Manning should never have been put

:45:31.:45:33.

into that position and somebody needed, you know, to be held

:45:34.:45:36.

accountable for that. I'm not exonerating. This person has been

:45:37.:45:42.

tried and has served already seven years, but the really catastrophic

:45:43.:45:45.

mistakes were made higher up the chain of command. In terms of Edward

:45:46.:45:49.

Snowden, what he leaked is on a different scale?

:45:50.:46:03.

Totally different. Chelsea Manning did what at the time she thought was

:46:04.:46:12.

the right thing to do, and leaked it, WikiLeaks is not a proscribed

:46:13.:46:16.

organisation, but it is perfectly legal. Edward Snowden fled to

:46:17.:46:25.

America's adversary, Moscow, and then the whole story came out. It

:46:26.:46:30.

isn't as if he fled to a neutral country, Switzerland Ecuador or even

:46:31.:46:39.

Cuba. He went to Moscow, and there is still confusion, but pretty much

:46:40.:46:45.

every body assumes the Russians are not doing this just embarrass

:46:46.:46:48.

America, they wanted access to what was inside his head or in whatever

:46:49.:46:54.

files, so that has been a propaganda victory for President Putin, and

:46:55.:46:59.

what Edward Snowden did, again it is divisive, polarised, some people

:47:00.:47:04.

think he is a hero whistle-blower, and that he exposed appalling

:47:05.:47:09.

snooping and invasions of privacy, others, that he enabled criminal

:47:10.:47:16.

networks, organised crime, hackers, Isis, Al-Qaeda and other terrorist

:47:17.:47:22.

organisations to learn how they would be intercepted and listen to,

:47:23.:47:27.

so they change their methods, moved off certain platforms and went on to

:47:28.:47:30.

more encrypted platforms where they are harder to detect, and if you

:47:31.:47:34.

talk to anybody in counter-terrorism, they will say

:47:35.:47:37.

that Edward Snowden has made their job far harder. Frank Gardner, thank

:47:38.:47:38.

you very much. The number of migrants attempting to

:47:39.:47:50.

cross the Mediterranean is higher than ever. Earlier on the programme

:47:51.:47:56.

we brought you a film from aboard a rescue ship.

:47:57.:48:02.

Stay where you are, we're going to come to you.

:48:03.:48:07.

You can see the film on our Facebook page. Kate Allen has been telling us

:48:08.:48:16.

about the work that MSF and other charities do when it comes to

:48:17.:48:19.

rescuing. That kind of work is absolutely vital. We see people

:48:20.:48:25.

dying in the Mediterranean every day. Last weekend, 100 people lost

:48:26.:48:30.

their lives in the Mediterranean. So MSF are doing brilliant work. There

:48:31.:48:37.

are also UK and other EU ships and boats out there in the

:48:38.:48:40.

Mediterranean, but the real issue is why are people getting in those

:48:41.:48:44.

boats in the first place? And it is because they are absolutely

:48:45.:48:48.

desperate. They are fleeing situations in Syria, Iraq,

:48:49.:48:52.

Afghanistan, and they have no alternative, because all of the land

:48:53.:48:57.

routes have been blocked, so this is desperate people fleeing appalling

:48:58.:49:02.

situations and being forced into those situations, and that's the

:49:03.:49:04.

issue that we should be concentrating on. You will know that

:49:05.:49:10.

critics say the fact that boats, Government boats, Charity boats, go

:49:11.:49:14.

out and rescue people when they are in trouble in the sea is encouraging

:49:15.:49:18.

others to follow, to put their lives at risk. I find that one of the most

:49:19.:49:22.

extraordinary thing is that anybody could actually stand up and say. The

:49:23.:49:26.

people who say that have not seen what is happening in Syria, they

:49:27.:49:29.

have not been on the borders of Lebanon and Syria and scene where

:49:30.:49:36.

refugees have spent two, three, four years under canvas with their

:49:37.:49:39.

children having no education and no health care. If you or I were in

:49:40.:49:45.

that situation, we would up and move and try to get to somewhere where we

:49:46.:49:51.

could protect our children and try to get health care and support.

:49:52.:49:55.

People are getting on those boats because it is the least worst

:49:56.:49:58.

option. But when they arrive on the shores of Italy, and I are not being

:49:59.:50:03.

processed and sent to a refugee camp? What happens is people risk

:50:04.:50:08.

their lives coming across the Mediterranean, they are being held

:50:09.:50:13.

in Turkey now overwhelmingly. In a refugee camp? Yes, but what people

:50:14.:50:18.

are trying to do is get to Europe, they are trying to get to somewhere

:50:19.:50:21.

where they can perhaps have some sort of life where they can get

:50:22.:50:25.

health care, get their children into education. You know the deal that

:50:26.:50:31.

the EU came up with was that, yes, we will take some refugees, but

:50:32.:50:34.

those who have been in the saddle camps for a period of time, not

:50:35.:50:39.

those who suddenly arrive on a boat. It is such a forced distinction. It

:50:40.:50:44.

is trying to discourage people risking their lives in a dinghy.

:50:45.:50:50.

Water deer is saying is, stay put and rot where you are, and we may

:50:51.:50:55.

come and get a few of you. That is what it is actually saying. If you

:50:56.:50:59.

step back and look at whether refugee problem is globally, there

:51:00.:51:02.

are 20 million refugees in the world. There are more refugees in

:51:03.:51:06.

South Africa than there are the whole of Europe. So we need to get a

:51:07.:51:11.

sense of proportion about this as Europeans. Kate Allen from Amnesty

:51:12.:51:13.

International UK. Thousands of grandparents

:51:14.:51:20.

who haven't reached the pension age of 65,

:51:21.:51:22.

and are helping bring up their grandchildren,

:51:23.:51:24.

are missing out on a special Research by an insurance group

:51:25.:51:26.

has found only a low number of applications have been

:51:27.:51:34.

made for what's being called Let's talk now to Lucy Peake, Chief

:51:35.:51:36.

Executive of Grandparents Plus. And three people who don't work

:51:37.:51:43.

and all regularly look Lizzie, what is the issue? 9 million

:51:44.:51:56.

grandparents in the UK are caring for grandchildren, helping working

:51:57.:51:59.

parents to go to work, and the Government has introduced a benefit

:52:00.:52:04.

so working parents can transfer their national insurance credit to

:52:05.:52:06.

the grandparent if they are of working age. The issue is that very

:52:07.:52:10.

few are taking this up, and they think this is a lack of awareness.

:52:11.:52:15.

OK, so if they did transfer that national insurance credit, it would

:52:16.:52:19.

be more cash for the grandparents? It protect their state pension when

:52:20.:52:22.

they become pensioners. Witching cash terms can be an extra ?200 a

:52:23.:52:30.

year? It is around ?230 each year, so it is worth doing. We want

:52:31.:52:35.

grandparents to find out if they are eligible for it. Melissa, hello.

:52:36.:52:39.

Good morning. Five grandchildren, is this correct? That is correct. Are

:52:40.:52:47.

you sure? You don't look old enough! I have six children of my own and

:52:48.:52:52.

five grandchildren. So how regularly are you looking after them? It's

:52:53.:52:56.

quite infrequent. Both of my older children work, but I still have four

:52:57.:53:02.

young children at home, so I help whenever I can, the leisure, all

:53:03.:53:08.

work purposes, maybe a couple of times a week or at weekends. So

:53:09.:53:14.

looking after your grandchildren is your main focus, and you would

:53:15.:53:18.

eligible for these credits. Did you know about them? Absolutely not, the

:53:19.:53:23.

first I heard of it was yesterday when I had a contact, and direct

:53:24.:53:27.

about it last night. I wasn't aware of it at all. So you need to talk to

:53:28.:53:31.

your children about transferring their national insurance credits to

:53:32.:53:34.

you so that you don't lose out when you do get your pension. Not too far

:53:35.:53:39.

away! It is decades away, Thomas Lee, Melissa! Let me bring in

:53:40.:53:45.

Christine. Thank you for coming on the programme. -- honestly, Melissa.

:53:46.:53:55.

Christine, you are not eligible because you are 67. What do you

:53:56.:54:00.

think of that? I don't think it should matter what age you are, but

:54:01.:54:03.

I didn't know anything about it. It would be a good thing, it would help

:54:04.:54:09.

people. Do you think you do get enough credit, whether

:54:10.:54:12.

acknowledgement or support, when it comes to the fact that you look

:54:13.:54:16.

after your grandchildren? To be honest, I don't actually look after

:54:17.:54:21.

them now. I'd eat two or three years ago when I lived in Spain. -- idea

:54:22.:54:29.

You do spend money out, and it would have been helpful to have an extra

:54:30.:54:35.

bit of money that we knew nothing about. And Melissa, what about your

:54:36.:54:42.

motivation in helping your children by looking after their kids? I

:54:43.:54:47.

worked until I had my sixth baby, I sold my business the day before, and

:54:48.:54:51.

my parents were such a key part of me being able to do that, so I think

:54:52.:54:59.

when you have come from a big family, and the grandparents always

:55:00.:55:03.

looked after the children years ago, whether it be for work purposes or

:55:04.:55:06.

sharing the family memories or traditions, telling stories, it is

:55:07.:55:13.

just something we did naturally, and my mum is a heroic part of the

:55:14.:55:16.

community where we lived and were brought up, and she did it for

:55:17.:55:23.

everybody. So I think for me, Nan's Harris is a safe place, there is

:55:24.:55:27.

always food on the table, the kids love coming here, and I would love

:55:28.:55:32.

my children to think of me the way I think of my mum. Just to recreate

:55:33.:55:38.

that stability. We are showing our audience some fabulous pictures of

:55:39.:55:44.

your grandchildren as well. Lucy, what both of them are doing and have

:55:45.:55:50.

been doing actually really helps, we don't appreciate it, do we?

:55:51.:55:55.

Grandparents are making this massive contribution, within their own

:55:56.:55:59.

families, providing that richness of relationship and experience for the

:56:00.:56:02.

grandchildren, but also to society as well. If you think of all of the

:56:03.:56:07.

grandparent enabling parents to work, one in four working families

:56:08.:56:11.

rely on grandparents for childcare, and that rises to one in three

:56:12.:56:16.

working women, so it is a huge issue, so the thing we need to

:56:17.:56:20.

explore as we push the retirement age, more and more grandparents will

:56:21.:56:24.

be working themselves, so what will that do for families? How will we

:56:25.:56:29.

work this as a society in the future? So what should people do if

:56:30.:56:33.

they are eligible? The best thing to do is to go to the Grandparents Last

:56:34.:56:40.

website to find information. You need to check your availability with

:56:41.:56:46.

HMRC, and get the parent to transfer the benefit to the grandparent, said

:56:47.:56:50.

the best thing is to check Liberty first and then it should be simple.

:56:51.:56:56.

Are you sure? Because that bit about getting a parent to transfer it to

:56:57.:57:00.

the grandparent... It is about making sure that both parties want

:57:01.:57:03.

this to happen, that is what it is about. Thank you very much, Lucy.

:57:04.:57:08.

Melissa, thank you for coming on the programme. Christine, many thanks

:57:09.:57:12.

for coming on the programme, thank you for have a new one. Thank you

:57:13.:57:18.

for your many, many comments about the partial victory that Doug

:57:19.:57:22.

Paulley has achieved at the Supreme Court when it comes to wheelchair

:57:23.:57:30.

access on buses. A wheelchair -- boss tried will have to do much more

:57:31.:57:36.

than require summary to move. Clare says, my local bus company does a

:57:37.:57:39.

fantastic job, all of their buses have a space, and many of them have

:57:40.:57:43.

a wheelchair space and a separate rushed Jess base. It is frustrating

:57:44.:57:51.

when there is a buggy there and the parent refuses to fold it. They even

:57:52.:57:58.

give the parent a free ticket to the next bus if they agree to get off.

:57:59.:58:03.

Joe says he feels some sympathy for the buggy user, often loaded with

:58:04.:58:08.

bags, impossible to collapse with one hand whilst holding a child or

:58:09.:58:11.

more than one child, and what if it is a double buggy? Does this really

:58:12.:58:19.

mean the driver must help the user into another space, or will they

:58:20.:58:22.

have to leave the bus? We will have to see what Buster Ivers do. Thank

:58:23.:58:27.

you very much for your company today.

:58:28.:58:32.

A volunteer shares her video diary on board a migrant rescue ship.

Wheelchairs or buggies? Discussing priorities on public transport.

Grandparents talk about missing out on money they are entitled to.


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