13/02/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

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Chloe Tilley presents the BBC's daily news and current affairs programme with original stories, exclusive interviews, audience debate and breaking news.

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Hello it's Monday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,


in for Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.


Chaos in one of the biggest prisons in the country has been revealed


Move away from it or else I will use it on you. I would prefer it if you


didn't. Can you move away from it? Lacey I can step up here.


An undercover reporter discovered widespread drug use,


a lack of control, door alarms that did not go off in one


block and a hole in an internal security fence.


We'll hear from prisoners and guards this morning.


And if you've spent time in prison recently,


we are really keen to hear your experiences this morning.


Also on the programme, more division for the church over


How damaging will the row be for the church?


Good morning, I am Father Andrew Foreshaw-Cain, I'm happily married


to my husband and I believe the report today is a steaming pile of


waffle which will harm the church. And Gavin Ashenden, have spent years


on the General Synod and the report invites us to take direction that


the teaching of Jesus and the faithfulness of the Church does not


allow us to go in. And Adele stole the show


at the Grammys overnight - for an amazing George Michael


cover....but it didn't I know it's live TV, I'm sorry,


I need to start again, I'm sorry for swearing and I'm


sorry for starting again. Welcome to the programme,


we're live until 11. I'm Chloe Tilley and


throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news


and developing stories. A little later in the programme


we'll hear from children of addicted parents -


as a new report from the NSPCC says they receive a call every single


hour from adults worried about drugs We'll talk about the impact it has


on those young children. If you've got you own experience,


do get in touch - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and if you text,


you will be charged Widespread drug use,


door alarms that didn't work and a hole in a perimeter fence


- just some of the discoveries made by a BBC undercover


reporter at a prison Panorama discovered evidence


of major security failings during secret filming at HMP


Northumberland which holds more than 1,000 men and is run


by the firm Sodexo. Undercover in one


of our biggest jails. For two months, BBC Panorama filmed


the drugs feeding addiction inside. HMP Northumberland is a private jail


run by the French company Sodexo On the undercover reporter's first


day inside, 2.5 kilograms of Spice, an illegal high with a prison value


of ?250,000 was found in two cells. Despite this, Panorama was told


there was no lockdown, so the block The BBC secretly filmed


inmates high on drugs. CCTV cameras recorded


an inmate being stamped on. At one point, Panorama's


undercover reporter During filming, the BBC discovered


a serious security breach, Nearby, officers found


wire-cutting tools and, later, It meant drugs could have been


passed into the jail. The reporter asked


the governor what went wrong. Sodexo, the company that runs


the prison, said the safety of staff The Ministry of Justice said it


would urgently investigate the BBC's footage and that the government


is determined to reform our prisons. Much more on that when we speak to


one former prisoner who says 85% of the people he was in prison with


work on spies. Now a summary of the rest of the day's news. -- they were


on spice. Britain's biggest supermarket Tesco


says it's taking immediate action to check prices,


after a BBC investigation revealed two thirds of deals


on the shelves were out of date, A team from BBC Inside Out visited


50 branches across England, and found multi-buy deals


still being advertised days - and in some cases months


after the deductions The Co-Op Bank has


announced it's up for sale. The high street bank has over


four million customers but almost collapsed in 2013 after a series


of financial problems. Since then it's been run by private


investment companies who say they've now made "considerable progress"


in turning the business around. The body that approves church law,


the General Synod of the Church Much of the debate is likely


to centre on the clergy's response to a report on gay


marriage, which upholds a traditional definition of marriage


as being between a man and a woman. But 11 former bishops have accused


the church of ignoring Nearly 200,000 people


in Northern California are being evacuated from their homes


after the tallest dam in America Officials feared the


Oroville Dam could be about to collapse after a giant hole


developed in the overflow channel. Crews using helicopters have


dropped rocks to fill the gouge in the spillway,


and the excess water this programme they were conned out


of thousands of pounds by an organisation that said it could win


in custody. This service is provided by Mackenzie Friends, not legally


trained but providing support for those going to court, the company


charged for their services and there are now calls for this to be


regulated. We will have a special report on that just talking to


families who have been affected just after 9:30am.


At the Grammy's Adele has broken her own record,


becoming the first person to take the top three awards


The star was honoured at the awards in Los Angeles for her single Hello


But the London-born singer apparently turned down


the award for best album, saying Beyonce deserved it more.


Adele won five prizes in all, including three of the top awards,


Best Album, Song of the Year and record of the year.


Sir Bradley Wiggins has pulled out of Channel 4's winter sports show


Britain's most decorated Olympian suffered a small


fracture while taking part in snow cross training.


The eight-time Olympic medallist and Tour de France winner said


he was "gutted" that the injury forced him out.


Channel 4 said Sir Bradley had been keen to continue but wouldn't appear


after the fourth show in the series, which has attracted


criticism after a number of previous celebrities


That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.


Your views are welcome on gay marriage within the church. We will


be talking to various interested parties.


Do get in touch with us throughout the morning,


use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged


And a football doping investigation has been conducted with some


surprising findings, Will Perry joins us now, so Will,


At least 39% of players in the English football league were not


drugs tested for illegal doping, according to figures we have


received, that is the Championship and League 1 and League 2, although


not the Premier League. The body that carries out testing on behalf


of the FA and also test the 50 Olympic, Paralympic and Commonwealth


professional sports, they took thousands of samples from 1989


players in the EFL. From 550 players to play in the Premier League, 799


samples were taken, a massive difference which does not account


for players being tested more than once, one player tested five times


would mean five samples, for instance. So those figures relate to


the English football league but it's not just them that have been


questioned. No, figures show there is an even bigger problem in women's


football with only 36 samples taken from 169 players in Women's Super


League one, the top flight of domestic women's football, the


Football Association say like any sport, it has prioritised and


anti-doping programme at the elite end of it and they also say the


researchers intelligence led, meaning any player that the FA


thinks presents a problem will be targeted, last season we had the


Brentford midfielder Alan Judge who was the only player tested on behalf


of the FA to bridge these doping regulations and he was reprimanded


after proving that the substance he had taken was from an asthma


inhaler. Having said this, there are bigger issues in other European


leagues, Spain, Germany, the Scottish FA last year announced that


they had plans to tackle the issues and the English at a plan to double


the number of tests conducted next season at a cost of almost ?2


million. We'll have the headlines are you at our past nine. Thank you,


we will speak to you then. Next this morning, should


the Church of England stop insisting marriage has to be


between a man and a woman? The issue is set to cause


yet more divisions when the the General Synod -


that's basically the governing body of the church, made up of bishops,


clergy and lay members - At the moment gay people can't


get married in a Church of England church -


though they can get blessed in some. A report to be debated


at the meeting on Wednesday will stick to the traditional


definition of marriage In an unprecedented move,


that's now been opposed by 11 former bishops who say the church


is failing its LGBT members. Last month a House of Bishops report


said the Church shouldn't change its opposition


to same-sex marriage, tone and culture of welcome


and support" for gay people. We can talk now to Andrew


Foreshew-Cain who became Britain's first gay vicar to openly


marry his partner in 2014. formerly Bishop of Swindon,


who signed a letter at the weekend criticising the way the church


represents gay people And Gavin Ashendon is former


honorary chaplain to gay rights activist who now believes


marriage should be And we will shortly be


speaking to Susie Leafe, who is the Director of Reform


an organisation that campaigns to uphold the original


doctrines of the Church of England. Andrew, does the Church welcome LGBT


members of the community? I don't think so. They say they do but in


reality the Church of England is a very tough place for someone to be


LGBT. Would you agree? I think we have moved a long way but not far


enough. The criticism that we retired bishops have of this report


from serving bishops, and we do not underestimate the difficult job they


do holding the church together, around some difficult issues,


nevertheless, we feel that this report does not represent the kind


of direction that we were taking, and therefore understandably, a lot


of gay and lesbian people in the church feel very disappointed.


Before we get Gavin's point of view, do you think this is about the tone


and the message that is sent out to gay and lesbian members of the


community or is this about gay people being able to get married in


church? The current bishops would say it is about tone and they would


say they want to set a new tone. Actually I would say it should be


about reality, which is how LGBT people are treated by the church and


how our relationships are respected and recognised. It's also about


recognising that the Church of England has a prayerful response to


issues of human sexuality, and the bishops and this new report entirely


failed to recognise that. The report is right that we need a change of


tone but if you look for example at what else has happened this last


weekend when the Archbishop of Canterbury said about child


refugees, we don't just want sentiment, we want action. And the


problem with this report is that it rightly calls for a change of tone,


for a more welcoming, accepting attitude on behalf of the church but


that is only going to be real and we will only touch the real reasons for


homophobia if we need to see some action. I think for us retired


bishops it may well be that any move a bad marriage is too far. I myself


have struggled with that although I've now come to the conclusion that


sacramental marriage would be strengthened rather than weakened by


including same-sex partners. But nevertheless there are other things


we could do. Other things that this report could have proposed for


example the blessing of civil partnerships. That would have meant


that we were not just talking about changing tone, we were really doing


something about welcoming, accepting gay and lesbian people.


Bretts bring in Gavin. What about the issue about a blessing of


same-sex couples? Is that something you could see happening? The Church


of England? Well, I would like it say Christianity is about


indiscriminate love and this quality of love comes because of our


relationship with the Holy Spirit. It is not produced by a committee's


report even if it is done by bishops and my experience is that the


chumpble has been overwhelingly loving and accepting to people who


cross its doors. It is what it sets out to do. The problem with both gay


marriage and also the blessing of gay relationships is that to be a


Christian you're committed to follow the teaching of Jesus and the


teaching of Jesus is marriage is between a man and a woman with the


intention of having children. And the problem with the report is that


whilst it keeps a conventional approach, traditional Christianity


on the surface, in its legal advice at end, it is making arrangements


for formal blessings to be prepared after civil services. So Bishop


Michael was right, it is about the direction the report is take the


church in and from the teaching of Jesus, that's a direction that we


don't find ourselves able to take. I would challenge that the church


has been entirely loving and accepting of gay and lesbian people.


I have members of my congregation who are refugees from conservative


churches like Gavin's who come to me after years of abuse and the


theology that's held by the churches. I have regular contact


with people who self-harm and there have been well reported suicides.


They felt the only way out has been through suicide. There is a meeting


at the General Synod of a church in Manchester who lost a 14-year-old


young woman to suicide precisely because of teaching of the church.


And the sense and the hurt that that person was left with. Andrew, I mean


I understand that and the stories and the anecdotes that people are


suffering... These aren't anecdotes. I get text messages every day from a


young woman who is attending a conservative church in London who is


being told that she is wrong and is going to go to hell and she


self-harms every day. Sometimes so badly that she ends up in A


because the cut is too deep. And there is a psychological report


released in 2013 that says amazingly that gay people find themselves


mentally better off, their mental health is better off in conservative


churches. So we have two sets of evidence and the answer at the end


is all we can do as Christians to love one another and put the Bible


into practise and in that way we make our journey forward.


I want to bring in Suzie who just joined us as well. I don't know how


much Suzie has been able to hear of what we've said. Suzie, it is great


to have you on the programme. We were just hearing from Andrew saying


that many members of his congregation self-harm because they


are lesbian or gay and feel they are not accepted in some extreme cases


ending up in accident and emergency as a result. He's saying the church


isn't welcoming enough to the LGBT community? I think that's a really


difficult thing to hear and I feel sorry for those people. It is just


not the experience of the lesbian and gay people that I know within


our churches. Conservative churches. I think they are finding a real


sense of love and acceptance, a place where they're discovering that


God loves them and God wants the best for them and they're


flourishing. And they are happy that same-sex marriage is not allowed in


the Church of England? Well, I'm sure you've heard on the BBC over


the last couple of weeks there have been people like Ed Shaw talking and


I think their experience is very common. They're saying to live a


life that is the same in many ways of Jesus Christ, a single life, in


community, offers a great blessing. I wouldn't doubt that there are gay


and lesbian people in your churches who are widely welcomed because they


conform to the narrow set of views thaw want them to conform to. Those


of us who find joy and love in our relationships are not welcome in


your churches. I have been told I'm a false preacher and I'm going to


hell by members of those churches. Conforming is an easy way of


avoiding conflict and hurt and people like Ed Shaw represent a tiny


minority of both the gay and lesbian community in the church and much


more widely in society and what they are trying to do is using the


language of conversion therapy to pretend that going gay and lesbian


is a pathology and they are insisting that everybody must make


the choices that they are free to make themselves to be celibate. Ed,


if he is happy to be celibate, I'm happy for him, but his book talks


about his despair and unhappiness and how he Fanta saousz about the


lovely young man that he might build a relationship with, but can't


because of the theology he holds. The majority of gay and lesbian find


sources of blessing with their relationship with God as indeed I do


with mine. I'm really sorry... Go ahead Suzie. We're listening. I've


got various sounds coming around. I'm having to do this in the


reception at BBC Plymouth. I think, from what I heard Andrew saying,


he's trying to claim, I think, that a life should be a life that's


hassle free and without cost... No, that's not true, Suzie at all


because no relationship is ever, no marriage is ever hassle free without


cost. I have been with my partner for 17 years and I promise like


everybody in a long-term relationship there has been struggle


within that relationship, but that relationship is nonetheless a


relationship of love and plesing and support and encouragement as I'm


sure so is yours. That's, in this country, you are free to have that


relationship and I think that's a good thing. The question is, is


whether or not that is a relationship which is in line with


the teaching of Jesus Christ? What worries me about this debate is the


church and the Gospel are coming across as very stayed and unmoving


things and the church is a living organism. We are called to serve the


good news of Jesus Christ. The doctrine has developed through the


life of the Church. Sometimes we've got things terribly wrong like the


inqisation. On marriage which we're discussing this morning, we made


some very significant changes about divorce and welcoming divorced


people into church and to have their second marriage in church. We


continue, now, we welcome parents who are not married who bring their


children to be baptised and now, facing the question of gay and


lesbian people within the church, what we're called to do is to ask


how can we express the good news of Jesus Christ which Gavin and Suzie


have rightly emphasised as our central responsibility, how can we


proclaim that, not just in tone, but in real ways so that they also are


fully part of the church and are part of this loving, forgiving


action of God? Lots of people are getting in touch.


I would be keen to get you to respond to the messages. A text, "My


daughter is getting married in April. Same-sex. They have to get


married in the civic centre in Newcastle and the next day they're


getting blessed in a church. It doesn't make any sense why they can


be blessed, but not married." Another text, "I do not understand


why gay Christians and priests think they should have more rights than


the church? The taesmings of the church and the Bible don't support


gay relationships just as it does not support fornication. You cannot


change the principles of the Bible to suit your needs." I am a vicar


ministering in Thailand. I am also gay. LGBT people should be treated


equally not because it is the spirit of age, but it is central to the


truth and love shown in Jesus." Another text, "Although I think


getting married is good especially if you can do it in church, it is


about people cherry-picking the Bible and the so-called word of God


when it suits them. If you're not going to follow the teachings of the


Bible, then it is not going to work properly." I would say, I mean, I do


read the Bible every day and I would see myself as a faithful Bible


reading Christian. The bishop's report which started this off fails


to recognise that there is, within the Church of England, a significant


diversity of thee logical approaches and scripture interpretations. So


claiming there was a single way of reading Holy Script is wrong


basically. Gavin. How is this going to be resolved? This conversation


alone demonstrated the huge divisions within the Church of


England? That's a good question and an important one. The Church of


England has been very good, because it is very welcoming and it is


enormous by broad at gathering people together in one group and it


has done for a very long time. The problem as your e-mails and your


Twitter feed have shown is we've reached a point where the two-ways


of understanding our relationship as human beings are simply going in


different directions and the problem we're facing at the moment is that


even the inclusivity of the Church of England may not be broad enough


to manage to keep the two directions together and unfortunately that's


the experience of the church elsewhere. In America, for example,


where the conversation is 20 or 30 ahead of where we are now,


unfortunately, the Christian church separate the Anglican Church


separated into two groups, each pursuing what they thought the truth


was. Maybe that's what will have to happen here if we are to keep our


integrity and then we can test what Christianity will allow people to


flourish best. The same kind of things were said about the Ministry


of Women in the church and we in the Church of England took such a long


time to actually come to where we are now and where we are now is that


we have so many wonderful women serving as priest and bishops in the


Church of England, we haven't split. We haven't turned our back on the


Bible. We've actually moved forward under the power of the Holy Spirit.


We understand the Bible in different ways and we now have such a much


better church because it is inclusive, because it has the


diversity that women have brought and now let's see whether we could


also have a little bit of courage and do the same about gay and


lesbian people? We have had a text that's come in saying, "Why not form


a splinter church that would accommodate their preferences as


Gavin suggested? The Church of England is a splinter church from


the Catholic Church." What we want is a recognition that there is a


diversity of thee logical and pastoral approach to issues of


sexuality and we want that to be honoured in the same way that other


significant divisions within the church are honoured within the


church. Ordination of women, divorce, other things too. We have


enormous divergence of theology within the Church of England and one


of our geniuses is to learn to live with that and it would be a great


witness to the world if progressives and Conservatives within the Church


of England were able to do so within the Church of England. Good


disagreement is what the bishops were talking about three years ago


and that would be a wonderful thing to see. A tweet from Rich saying,


"Unless the Church of England changes its attitude to LGBT people.


It will die out. It is simple really." Thank you for coming in and


talking to us today. Your experience is welcome. You can


use the hashtag Victoria live throughout the programme.


Conned trying to get her children back.


This woman paid thousands to a man who said he could win


More than a million children could be living with an alcoholic


From the age of eight going to my dad's at the weekend I was


effectively the carer. It was typical for my dad to pick me up


from school, literally fall over because he was so drunk.


We'll hear from some of the children on how it has affected them.


A BBC investigation has found evidence of major security failings


at a privately-run prison in the North East of England.


A reporter from Panorama filmed undercover at the jail


in Morpeth, discovered a number of issues, including


Sodexo who run the prison says the safety of staff and inmates


The Ministry of Justice says it will investigate the footage


and the government is committed to reforming prisons.


Britain's biggest supermarket, Tesco, has promised


action after a BBC investigation revealed two-thirds of deals


on the shelves were out of date, and didn't work at the checkout.


Over three months a team from BBC Inside Out visited 50


branches of Tesco across England and found multi-buy deals


still being advertised days, weeks and in some cases months


after the deductions were no longer valid at the till.


The supermarket says it's working to make


A man from Bury has been charged and did the sparrows serves


offences act after a suspicious package was found at Manchester


Airport. The body that approves church law,


the General Synod of the Church of England, rates today. Much of the


debate will centre on the clergy 's response to a report on gay marriage


which upholds the traditional definition of marriage as being


between a man and a woman. 11 former bishops have accused the Church of


ignoring the views of gay Christians. One viewers says, the


teaching is based on the Ten Commandments and while having


sympathy for gay Christians it cannot allow them to Marin Cilic.


Richard says, I am 62, was brought up in the Church of England, was a


churchwarden until ten years ago, I am gay and right now despair of the


church and I want nothing to do with it because of this message it keeps


sending out. Keep sending in your messages. Let's get some sport.


The headlines, Joe Root should be confirmed as England test captain


today, he is believed to be the clear favourite after Alastair Cook


resigned after leading the side. Official figures today show that 39%


of players who played in the English football league last season were not


drugs tested by the anti-doping organisation. The programme was


specialised at the elite end. Claudio Ranieri says he may have


been too loyal to his Leicester players, they are now just one point


above the bottom three after losing to Swansea yesterday. In Scotland


were beaten by France 22-16 in France, the tenth time in a row


they've lost in Paris. England on the only unbeaten side after two


matches. More about those stories at ten o'clock. See you then. Thank


you. I was engrossed in some of your e-mails, I will read those in the


next few minutes. This programme has spoken to parents


who say they were conned out of thousands of pounds


by an organization that had promised The Parents' Voice London advertised


paid-for support for people going through the family courts,


known as McKenzie Friends. There are now calls


for this to be regulated. Our reporer James


Melley has the story. I felt like I'd been


conned significantly. I felt like my whole world


came crashing around me. He promised her that he would


get her children back. She was only a young mum,


you know, she was devastated There are examples of people


simply being ripped off. When families break up


and there's a dispute over the custody of children,


it can end up in places But because of changes in legal aid,


it's now increasingly hard for families to get funding


for those kinds of cases. When someone can't afford


or doesn't want a solicitor, McKenzie Friends can help people


representing themselves in court Anyone can be one, it doesn't


require any legal training, but increasingly McKenzie Friends


are demanding a fee The company The Parents Voice London


did just that, offering McKenzie Friends services


for those that paid. Last year, two of its directors,


Claire Mann and David Bright, were jailed for perverting


the course of justice in one case Now, several parents who paid them


thousands of pounds in the hope of getting help to win access


to their children are trying Rupinder Randhawa came


across David Bright and The Parents Voice


when she was fighting a decision Desperate for help, she paid them


thousands of pounds. When you got in touch


with David Bright in the first So I was not in a great space,


but I was still willing to... Your lawyer had told


you that there was very little What did David Bright tell


you when you spoke to him? That there was hope,


and there is something that he could definitely do,


and he did cases like this. Did he tell you how


successful he is? He told me that he'd


never lost a case. I felt encouraged to know


that he could possibly bring an opportunity where it is possible


for me to have custody She says David Bright


charged her ?480 a month and additional one-off fees


including ?6,000 to publish But, despite this, Bright


and The Parents Voice did How did you feel when you realised


that David Bright and The Parents I felt like I'd been


conned significantly. Like my whole world came


crashing around me, because there was no hope


in getting my children back, so... That just ruined everything,


it's like a false promise. Somebody had promised to do


something and they were not who they said they were,


so it just ruined everything, any hope I had left in me,


it just sucked every bit of life Quite often when parents


separate, one moves away. Jenny Lewington is a


McKenzie Friend, she worked with The Parents Voice but quit


because she says she She was also concerned about


David Bright's working practices. I'd gone to the hearing


with a mother who was trying to appeal an adoption,


and he'd submitted the wrong form And I rang him and said,


"Mum's submitted the wrong form." And I knew that he'd completed


the forms and then sent them to the client for signing


and sending to court, and he said, "Yes, I know I have,


I did it to try and delay matters." Do you think that would


have actually helped? This guy had promised this mother


that he would get her children back. And they'd already been


with the adoptive parents for some time, and I don't think


she would have got them back. She'd had a barrister up


to Bright got involved, and I think she approached Bright


out of desperation to try and get her children back,


and he said that he would What kind of impact did David Bright


have on the families She just said that he'd promised her


that he would get her children back. She was only a young mum,


you know, she was devastated The Law Society, which represents


solicitors, is calling for a ban on McKenzie Friends being able


to claim costs in court cases. We think that this would


help to really spell out that a McKenzie Friend is not a qualified


lawyer, does not have the training and expertise that a qualified


lawyer would have, and therefore should not be regarded as on a par


with a qualified lawyer. One of our concerns about the rise


in paid-for McKenzie Friends is that a lot of these people


are effectively acting as lawyers and advertising


themselves as lawyers, even though they do not have legal


training and legal qualifications, and they do not have the duties


to the court that a qualified If a lawyer were to mislead a court


or even allow a court to be misled, that would be a disciplinary offence


and they would be struck off. Have you heard of other cases


where McKenzie Friends have provided poor service or have


otherwise caused problems? There have been anecdotal


examples of McKenzie Sometimes it's a case


of well-meaning people who just don't have the understanding


that they need to in order to be Sometimes it's that they work


for an organisation that has a particular agenda,


and they put the organisation's agenda ahead of the interests


of the individual client. And sometimes there are examples


of people simply being ripped off by McKenzie Friends charging quite


significant sums, sometimes as much as lawyers would charge,


but arguing that lawyers are expensive, you can afford us,


therefore you should instruct us. I mean, you've got to watch him


in action, he's brilliant. Stephen, whose real name we can't


use for legal reasons, spent thousands of pounds


with The Parents Voice. A friend suggested he get in touch


with David Bright after his ex-wife took custody of their children


after the break-up I went to see him in his


Southgate office, and there He told me exactly what I wanted


to hear, he asked me if I wanted custody,


he asked me how much At the point where you


approached David Bright, I went in thinking, "There's got


to be no-one who can promise me the earth,


no-one that's that good." There's obviously solicitors out


there that are wonderful, but they cost tens and tens


of thousands. Friends of mine have paid half


a million in lawyers' fees just to get one inch from their ex-wife,


so he came as a welcome surprise because I was told he wasn't that


expensive in advance. He asked me for ?1,000


in advance, then monthly ?500, then that would be it,


there'd be no other charges. He'll send thousands


of letters, if I want. He'll bombard the other side,


he would win the case for me. He'll appoint a lawyer that


would turn up at court At the time, I was broken,


I was really in a low, Psychologically I was exhausted,


I didn't know what to do. Stephen claims Bright took


around ?12,000 from him by double-billing him,


and for work he didn't do. He says since Bright's conviction


he's been contacted by other people who feel their money was wrongly


taken by The Parents Voice. People that are just


so shocked, they've had What he does, he gets them


all so close and he makes You know, a lot of these people have


violent exes, horrible exes, and the children are always


involved, so what he does, he manipulates the parents


with the vision of the kids, Like Stephen and several other


people, Rupinder Randhawa has won a County Court judgment


against David Bright and The Parents Voice


for more than ?10,000. She didn't win her children back,


and resents the false I'm just looking forward


to the future and moving on with my life, doing the things


that I should have been doing in the year that I've wasted


of doing absolutely nothing David Bright was released


from prison last month. We asked him for an interview,


but he said no. He told us he denies any wrongdoing,


and that he and The Parents Voice had helped hundreds of people


with their cases. In making this film,


we've heard from several people that have had positive experiences


with McKenzie Friends, but senior judges are considering changing


the rules for how McKenzie Friends operate, including setting up a code


of conduct so those using them in the future will know


what to expect. We have had a tweet from Jason


saying "He destroyed my life and deserved a longer sentence, family


courts need reform as there are too many calls." Mark says, there are


good and bad people in all walks of life, many McKenzie Friends


fantastic and only focus on what is best for the children. Likewise some


solicitors are only interested in the monetary rewards and others are


genuine. After 10am we'll speak


to a McKenzie Friend Really keen to hear your


experience this morning. Coming up, the children


of a terminally ill couple who died of cancer within days of each other


have shared this moving photograph of their parents'


last moments together. We'll speak to a family


friend before 11am. It's thought more than


a million children could be living with an alcoholic


or drug-dependent parent. Every single hour the NSPCC receives


a call from an adult who is concerned about alcohol


or drugs being used around children. But is enough being


done to help them? Earlier this month the Labour MP


Jon Ashworth spoke in Parliament about his experience of growing up


with an alcoholic father. He urged ministers to do more


to stop children with similar His testimony was so powerful it


brought the Health Minister, My parents divorced


when I was about seven or eight. They divorced, to be frank


and candid, because of the strain that my father's alcoholism


placed on marriage. In the week, I would live


with my mum and at weekends And my dad would spend


the whole weekend drunk. In fact, from the age


of eight or so, going to my dad's at the weekend,


I was effectively the carer. It would be very typical for my dad


to pick me up from school, literally fall over,


because he was so drunk. I recall - because this


wasn't the days of mobile phones and so on -


going to the phone box to order It wasn't far to walk, to be fair,


but we couldn't walk up Or I would go back to my dad's


on Friday after school, open the fridge, as you do


when you get home from school and you want to eat probably some


chocolate biscuits, whatever. And the fridge being completely


empty, apart from these huge big And it was my job as a ten-year-old,


11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old, to go down to the shops


to get the food in for the weekend And there were loads of occasions,


or similar stories. Christmas, my dad wasn't


bothered about Christmas. I was going, I remember going


through them all. The shame. The embarrassment particularly as a


teenager. The anger as well. But I always loved my dad and he always


loved me. And we were lucky, he was never violent and never abusive.


There are millions of children or hundreds of thousands of children


who are not in that lucky situation. Great social change requires


three things, I think. It requires long-term political


will, it requires nonpartisan And I've heard all


three of those today. And I hope that each member who has


spoken here today will continue to work with me as we fight


on to tackle this social injustice. That was the health Minister moved


to tears by what Jon Ashworth had to say.


And here to share their experiences of growing up with a parent


who abused drugs and alcohol is 29-year-old Josh Connolly,


whose dad was an alcoholic and died when he was nine.


25-year-old Jade Bailey, whose father was addicted to drugs


21-year-old Sarah, in Liverpool, whose father is an alcoholic.


We're not using her surname to protect his identity.


Thank you for talking to us today. I imagine this is really difficult.


Josh, your dad died when you were nine. What are your memories of your


childhood? To be honest because I guess because of how traumatic a lot


of it was. It's difficult for me to recall like proper sort of visual


memories of the things that went on. I tend to only really remember a lot


of the bad things. And also the feelings. That's what stayed with me


all my life and that's still tan jable today the way that my dad's


drinking and everything that comes with that made me feel. So what was


normal for you? Give us a sense of what a normal day would be like


around your dad. My dad was a chaotic alcoholic. So with my dad


you never knew what he was going to get from one day to the next. I will


give you an example. It was a heatwave one summer and we had gone


to a park and it was jam-packed full of people and my dad was drinking


from cans and was visibly drunk and it was midday and he was walking


along urinating as he walked and I can remember like a six or


seven-year-old boy walking five or ten yards in front of him, but


feeling a deep sense of shame, but also guilt that I couldn't stand


next to my dad in alliance and to protect my dad and then anger, anger


at everybody looking and the shame that it was making me feel, but the


anger was never directed towards my dad in my case, I directed it


outwards. So I grew up with quite a strong sort of dislike to the rest


of the world really. Jade, your mum and dad split up when


you were quite little, didn't they? Yes. I know you saw your dad at


weekends, but from the age of six he used to take drugs around you? Well,


it's probably from the age I don't even remember. Really. My mum never


knew. When I used to go there on the weekends, him and his friends, it


was a little flat and him and his friends used to take drugs around me


and call it their medicine and I knew, I knew, it was never right and


it was never a medicine. I remember them going into the bathroom and I


can picture it now going into the bathroom and doing it and coming out


and them all being off their face and I would just go upstairs to the


hairdresser's which atamped to the flat. My dad was a DJ and I would


listen to the DJ music that he had. What sort of drugs was he talking?


He started on the basics. Well, I say the basics, but so you've got


weed and ecstasy and things like that and then he went on to heroin.


When he went on to heroin I was about ten years old. And he was a


mess. I mean our fun time on a weekend, and I hate to admit it, our


fun time at the weekend was going to the skip and trying to find toys. I


thought it was amazing. My dad was always my hero and if anything, he


always will be because he made me how I am now so after I eventually


told my mum, my dad takes this medicine with his friends she knew


what was going and didn't stop contact, I could always speak to him


if I wanted to, but it was sparse on his part. I always kind of had to


make the effort, but I didn't spend time at his house anymore. What does


it do to you as a child so young six or younger, seeing your dad doing


that and understanding that it's not right? The reason why I begun to


speak out about it is because I've never had one answer made by him. I


never had that question answered by him and it is why was I not enough


to make you stop? Why as a child do you not love me enough to stop and


to be my dad? Because he knew how much I adored him and I knew he


adored me. I knew that I was the only thing that he cared about in


his life apart from the drug. I knew I was everything to him and he was


to me. Which is why it was so hard for my mum and she was incredible.


They were only 16 when they had me. So she completely, we grew up


together if anything and it's, it makes you feel very alone like


you're not enough, and abandoned by them, but you love them so much that


you just can't, you can't ever leave them no matter what they do, you


know that they're sick. It's not that they, not that they're weak.


Not that they're, he wasn't a bad man. He was just very, very sick.


With the addiction and unfortunately that fled on to me, but it made me a


better person today which is strange to say, but I'm antidrug. I speak


out to a lot of younger people who are going through it and help them


through the process as well and it's just, I'm a little less emotional


now. I don't really have many emotions. I feel like I'm very numb


from my younger years, but I'm a stronger person for it. As you're


talking I can see that Josh is nodding away and I want to bring in


Sarah as well. Sarah you're listening to Josh and to Jade. Do


you see similarities in their stories with what you've been


through? Yeah, definitely, especially Jade's. I agree with it


and it makes you a stronger person and more braver and resill zant to


life challenges. Your dad is an alcoholic. Explain what your


childhood was like. Well, in my early years it was more happy


memories of my dad because he brought me up so it kind of made it


harder when he turned to alcohol because I couldn't understand why he


turned to alcohol. And then it made me more hard tore walk away because


I missed the old dad he was. So I would have to look after him when I


came home from school and I kind of always wish, I wanted the old dad


back, the one that he was when I was little. How hard was it for you to


be collecting him from the pub after he was drinking or getting him out


of bed to go to work when you're just a child? I found it quite


embarrassing. So I think that's why I never told anyone. And it would


always, sometimes he wouldn't come home from the pub or I would be


waiting up all night for him to get home because I could never sleep


unless I knew he was home safe and then I would always be tired getting


up for school. So it was quite emotionally and mentally draining


for a kid to have to go through that. You talked about the emotion


of it and the embarrassment which is something that I have not really


thought about. My dad, because obviously, I went to school in the


area where he lived. I didn't live in the same area and he used to,


when he was high on the drugs, he used to use my name against people.


He would say, my daughter Jade will beat you up when you get to school.


I used to have girls come up to me at school ready to fight saying your


dad is going around telling everyone and they all knew he was a drug


addict. They all knew what he was doing. So without me, my closest


friends know about my situation, but they don't know in detail. It is


only in the last couple of months that I've spoken out at all. So, if


anything, he told people more than I did because he put me in that


position. So when you've, when you're 13 years old and girls are


coming up wanting to fight because your dad who you barely see is


putting your name out there that you're going to attack them. I


wouldn't attack anyone. It wasn't the greatest feeling. I was ashamed


that he would do that to me. It broke my heart at the same time that


he would put me in danger. Yet you say you love him. I want to bring in


Jon Ashworth MP. We have had a tweet from Pamela saying this story


brought me to tears. How brave is Jon for sharing this moving story.


Jon, it must have been difficult for you to stand up in the Commons and


talk about this. It was very difficult and it is more difficult


listening to it because as I'm listening to it, there is huge part


of me feeling like I betrayed my dad and I shouldn't have said what I


said. It's very difficult. Part of me is regretting saying it. But


another part of my thinks we have got to speak out because there is


too many children who are suffering in silence because they've got a


parent who abuses alcohol or drugs and it is something that we've not


really talked about as a society before. We've not really put in


place the measures to support them. When I listen back to the speech


just now, there is part of me feeling very guilty about speaking


out, there is another part of me thinking I have got a job with


responsibility now and I want to do something with that job and if I can


make a difference for children of alcoholics then at least I've done


something important in life. Jon, if it helps you, Jade and Josh in the


studio are nodding when you were talking about feeling that you'd let


your dad down, betrayed him in some way, but of course, ut haven't and


you've clearly succeeded in life. You have been successful. What


impact did the way your dad behave have on you? Did you make you


stronger? Well, I mean, who knows? I will leave that to the


psychologists. You must have an idea of the way it impacted on you? It


made me determined in life to do things. My dad was never violent. He


was never abusive. If anything, the problem with my dad's drinking was,


everybody liked him. Everybody thought he was funny, good company,


you know, what a laugh, good old John Ash, nobody saw it as a


problem, isn't he great fun when he had a drink? Yes, he was great fun,


but I was the person who had to pick it all up or sort things out and it


ebbed and flowed throughout my childhood years. Sometimes it was


very bad. Sometimes it was manageable, but I suppose I think it


made me determined. It made me want to change things in life. I was


lucky. He was never violent, abusive, he was never horrible to


people. He was a sort of a happy drunk if you like, but in some ways,


that made him want to drink more because people liked him when he was


drunk if you know what I mean? You said before that you would not


take drugs, I wonder what it did to you, Sarah, what is your


relationship to drink and drugs? I always feel nervous when I am around


drunk people so I tend not to drink too much because it reminds me of


looking after my dad and the embarrassment and shame and sadness


so I try to stay away from it. For me it was slightly different to the


others who have spoken, I went on to have troubles with alcohol myself. I


think it's important to recognise the different roles children take on


within the family, often children become the caregivers. There were


three of us kids in our family and I became the mask and within the


family, so I found my place in life by trying to make others happy, I


always wanted to make sure my mum was OK so I kind of active the clown


and that was where I found my place in life. -- acted the clown. It


became a co-dependency thing. I wanted more than anything do not


become an alcoholic. But for me when I was 12 or 13 and I found alcohol


it became the perfect escape route, it really worked, to some degree, it


gave me the escape that I needed. I was never really able to look after


my dad or do anything like that. So I kind of felt lost in the world so


at school I am acting in the clown and at home trying to be the best me


so alcohol gave me an escape from that. Thank you so much for coming


in, all of you. It is very, very hard to be so open so we really


appreciate that. And by the way at last night's


Baftas, the actor Casey Affleck spoke about his experience of having


a parent who struggled with alcohol when he picked up his award


for Best Actor for his role The reason that I act,


it's because when I was a young kid, my mother would take me


to the Al-Anon meetings And there would be lots of kids


there and they would re-enact the person at their home


who they were trying to understand. It was therapy, but it was


acting, and it was... And acting has sort of been


that for me ever since. More on the BAFTAs


later in the programme. If you're affected by alcoholism


or addiction, you can find a list of charaties which may be able


to help on the BBC's Action Line. Now the weather with Carol. Today is


windy in the West, especially the coasts of Wales and the south-west,


severe gales, maybe some transport disruption. A little sunshine coming


through across most of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, down the


coast of Scotland and east coast of England we will keep the cloud and


despite temperatures in double figures it will feel cold wherever


you are. I'm Chloe Tilley, in for


Victoria Derbyshire. The Ministry of Justice says it is


investigating allegations of security failings that a privately


run prison in north-eastern England as BBC undercover filming reveals a


world of violence and drugs were the prisoners are in charge.


In the next few minutes we will speak to a former prisoner who says


85% of people in the prison he was then what on the drug spice.


The children of a terminally ill couple who died of cancer


within days of each other have shared this photograph of their


We will speak to a family friend, later.


And Adele cleans up the main awards at the Grammys and gets teary


Winning this feels like coming full circle, I feel a bit of me has come


back, I feel I cannot accept this award, for me, the Lemonade album


was so monumental. A BBC investigation has found


evidence of major security failings at a privately run prison


in the North East of England. Panorama filmed undercover


at the jail in Morpeth and discovered a number of problems,


including inmates using drugs. Sodexo, who run the prison says


the safety of staff and inmates The Ministry of Justice says it


will investigate the footage and the government is committed


to reforming prisons. I cannot react the way I want to


because there is not back up there Britain's biggest supermarket,


Tesco, has promised action after a BBC investigation


revealed two-thirds of deals on the shelves were out of date,


and didn't work at the checkout. Over three months, a team from BBC


Inside Out visited 50 branches of Tesco across England


and found multi-buy deals still being advertised days,


weeks and in some cases months after the deductions were no


longer valid at the till. The supermarket says


it's working to make A man from Bury in Greater


Manchester has been charged with an offence under


the Explosive Substances Act aftera suspicious package was found


at an airport. 43-year-old Nadeem Muhammed


is accused of making It follows the discovery


of a suspicious package The body that approves church law,


the General Synod of the Church Much of the debate is likely


to centre on the clergy's response to a report on gay marriage,


which upholds a traditional definition of marriage


as being between a man and a woman. A group of retired bishops have


written an open letter, accusing the Church of ignoring


the views of gay Christians. Parents have told this programme


they were conned out of thousands of pounds by an organisation that


claimed it could win The Parents' Voice London


is a service that provided Mckenzie Friends are


people who generally but provide support for those


going through the family courts. The company charged


for their services. There are now calls


for this to be regulated. Firefighters in Australia


are still battling around 100 Several homes and trees


have been destroyed, but so far there are no reports


of any casualties. Australia has been experiencing


a record heatwave with temperatures as high as 47 degrees -


forecasters are warning conditions could become dangerous again


by the end of the week. Hollywood musical La La Land


dominated this year's Baftas The film won five trophies in all,


including best film and best actress There were also awards for the film


Lion, including best supporting Ken Loach's I, Daniel Blake


was named outstanding British film. Casey Affleck was named best actor


for Manchester by the Sea, and Viola Davis won best supporting


actress prize for Fences. That's a summary of the latest BBC


News - more at 10.30. Joe Root is expected to be named


England's test captain today, the Yorkshire batsman would succeed


Alastair Cook, was captain for more than four years. Freddie Flintoff


says Root is the obvious choice. You have to say Joe Root is probably the


only candidate, the way he plays and the way he goes about his business


you would imagine will lead itself to being a great captain. Look at


Virat Kohli for India. Joe Root is in the same class as a player and a


similar person so he would get my backing every time. Official figures


show that 39% of players who played in the English football league last


season were not officially tested for doping. Samples were taken from


players appearing in the league in the last season, the Football


Association say they have prioritised the anti-doping


programme at the elite end. Claudio Ranieri says he may need to change


things at Leicester, the Premier League champions facing relegation


battle following their defeat to Swansea. This volley gave the home


side the lead. Just before half-time Swansea added a second. And this win


the for Swansea moves them up to 15th in the table but it is a fifth


defeat in a row for Leicester. After the match Claudio Ranieri was asked


if he had been too loyal to his title winning players. Could be. Of


course, it is difficult, when you achieve something so good, you want


to give them one chance, two chances, three chances, maybe now is


too much. Chelsea ten points clear at the top of the Premier League but


only managed a draw at Burnley. It took just seven minutes for Chelsea


to take the lead, Pedro with the opener. But then look at there is a


brilliant free kick from Burnley's new signing, Robbie Brady, levelling


the game at 1-1. I don't know, it's not important for me. One more point


in the table. It's the most important thing. One point, two


points coming in the feature you can see this. Rangers into the last


eight of the Scottish cup after coming from behind to beat Greenock


Morton 2-1. Martyn Waghorn won and for Rangers in their first match


after the departure of Mark Warburton, their manager, last week.


And in the six Nations Scotland were narrowly beaten by France in Paris,


their tenth successive defeat in the French capital. Scotland twice went


ahead through tries from Stuart hog and this one from Tim Swinson. But


five penalties from Lopez did the damage with France holding on to


win, 22-16. England on the only unbeaten side in the tournament. The


headlines at 1030. Chloe. Thanks, Will.


Widespread drug use, a lack of control, door


alarms that don't go off, a hole in an internal security


fence, prisoners possibly sneaking out to collect drugs or other


contraband thrown over the perimeter fence,


inmates incapacitated by drugs, threatening staff....and in one


particularly disturbing scene - a prison officer having convulsions


on the floor after accidentally inhaling spice, a cheap and stronger


That's what the BBC discovered when it carried out secret filming


So does that reflect what goes on in jails across the country?


We can speak now to James Bell, who has been in and out


of prison for 26 years - he was last inside in April,


and was addicted to Spice on his last two times in prison.


James Parker is from the Rehabilitation for


And David, who spent more than 20 years working as a prison officer


and has seen first-hand what happens to people who take the drug.


He doesn't want us to use his surname.


Also we can speak to Bill, who has got in touch, he is a viewer who has


been in and out of prison for most of his life and was lost inside


prison just over three months ago. Thank you all for coming to talk to


us. I want to speak to Bill first, if we can. You were last in prison


three months ago. What was it like them, compared to the last time you


were in prison which I understand was a number of years ago? I started


prison in 1976 right up to 2006, I've spent 26 years of my life in


most prisons in the country, I was in Strangeways and everything. I


stayed out for ten years but I lapsed and I ended up back in


Rochester prison. And it traumatised me.


The staff were so overworked and under staffed and they don't control


the prison. The prisoners control the prison. Spice is rife. Drones


are the main cause of drugs coming into prisons and it is a very


different environment than what it was in the 70s and 80s and 90s. It


actually acts as a deterrent never to go back to prison. It is


horrendous. There is a back of positive activities for the inmates


to do due to staff shortages. There is a lack of therapy due to staff


shortages. There is a lack of lock-in due to staff shortages. And


I can't see any way for it changing unless the Government really pull


their finger out, you know, and do something and reform the prisons. I


can emphasise, I think it was James on there, I tried spice once and I'd


never go near the stuff again. It is horrendous stuff. Bill explain to


people who have heard of spice, but don't know what it does to you. What


effect did it have on you? I smoked cannabis for 41 years and I gave it


up two years ago of the but spice, they advertise it as an alternative


to cannabis, but it is nothing like cannabis. I believe it is made from


fish. I took three dregs and I thought I was going to have a heart


attack. I started sweating and I felt really ill. I thought there was


no way I'm doing that again. I tried it once. It was Christmas and I'd


never do it again. I have seen people change from being positive,


fit, healthy, good looking to like, you know, grey, white shells who


become extremely violent if they haven't got it. I think it is like


crack. I call it green crack because it is so addictive and a lot of


prisoners are running around to get it. The reason they are getting it


because there is nothing for them to do. Sometimes you're locked up for


23 hours a day and it makes you angry and frustrated. I have seen


some people, they have been on spice and they get involved in therapy


things and they change. And they go to work and they change. But because


of the under staffing and I think, no, listen, years ago, I fought


prison officers, it was us and them, but now I sympathize with the prison


officers because they're losing control. Nobody above them is


listening and I feel sorry for them and I've noticed while I was in


Rochester there is a lot of young prison officers starting, but within


three months they'd leave because they couldn't cope with the job.


They would come in thinking they were going to do some good and help


prisoners reform. I want to bring in James. You mentioned James Bell and


he was talking about you used spice. Can you identify with what Bill was


saying, the effect it has on you? Totally. I think Bill hit the nail


on the head just how prison has changed over the years. I remember


in the 90s it was different. There was still a drug problem, it is just


that things have got more chaotic and the drugs have changed. Again,


staff shortages. You know, all these elements are just creating more


problems. For me personally, my experience of spice was to pass the


time, you know, because I battled addiction for 25 years that was all


I knew, drugs. And prison to me was just an occupational hazard really


and that was a way of making money in prison, you know, using drugs,


using spice, selling spice, and I think that's the mentality now of


the prison system where people who are in prison and for the first


time, you know, I have been clean now for under a year. So, but again,


it was the staff shortages because I wanted help. I went into prison the


last time and it was like wow, this is chaos. So halfs it like? Give us


an idea of an average day on your wing in prison? Average day. Pretty


mundane really. You're up for breakfast. If you're going to


education, again, which is one day and I have done it that many times


over the years, I'd stop listening or people just weren't participating


in the education and it was basic so it became bored. If I was let out my


cell, if not, I would be banged up for 23 hours a day just watching TV


so I wanted something to talk me away from that. It is that escapism?


For me, it was. David was a prison officer for 24 years and left over a


year ago. What Bill and James are telling us is effectively prisoners


are running prisons. There are not enough prison officers there and it


is out of control. Do colleagues agree with that? Absolutely, yes,


100%. I started 24 years ago and we would have four members of staff on


a landing. Now you're lucky if there is one. So, I speak to one of my


friends and he's telling me they're unlocking the wing that I used to


work on with four members of staff to unlock 200 prisoners. It's


frightening. Some people will be watching thinking how on earth,


James has already said, 85% of people he believes at the jail he


was in, were on spice. How is that quantity getting into prison? It


comes over the wall. It comes in through parcels. It comes in hidden,


secreted in prisoners. And the prison officers know this, but are


simply overwhelmed and can't do anything about it? The cuts in the


staffing have changed the searching policies. They do get very good


results with target searching. There is no random searching anymore. Or


there wasn't when I was there. It is slowly, slowly being eroded and


yeah, I agree with the two other guys. The prisoners are taking


control of the prisons. James, I want to bring you in. Is


this simply about numbers of prison officers? We've got a former prison


officer there and we have heard from two former inmates saying this is


about numbers. Do you think it is about numbers or is it more than


that? Lack of numbers, as a charity that runs drug and alcohol treatment


services we can't have our services properly enabled so for instance the


experience that James had, even if he was in a prison that offered a


treatment programme there isn't the officers there to unlock everybody


so they can participate in the rehabilitation side of prison. Lots


of prisoners look for help. If we haven't got the resources there to


enable the services, the security, the safety that's there, then as a


provider of those services you just get incredibly frustrated and you


feel the frustration for the people that you're commissioned to help. We


are commissioned to help people like James when he was in prison and I


think that's where the whole system needs to review what are we trying


to do with prisons the moment? Are we actually looking at what bill


tation and rehabilitation so people can change their lives which is our


whole focus. Some prisoners in their education if you like, the way to be


rehabilitated was to colour this Pepa Pig. Is that unusual? No. Not


at all. Or playing cards. That's what we did because again, the staff


shortages and I think you go through it that many times. Prison is like a


revolving door for a lot of prisoners. It is the same like


programme all the time of education. There needs to be rehabilitation and


recovery wings and the support really, but it is all the different


services in the system which are running from cuts and shortages so


then we miss out. The ones who do want to change. I wanted to change.


And have done so congratulationsment you turned your life around for the


last year. Thank you so much all of you for coming in.


You can see that Panorama in full tonight at 8.30pm on BBC One


Adele stole the show at the Grammy's overnight -


not just for her stunning performance and haul of awards -


but also for having to stop her performance as she paid tribute


It's the second time she's faced technical hitches whilst


I know it's live TV, I'm sorry, I need to start again.


I'm sorry for swearing and I'm sorry for starting again.


I'm sorry, I can't mess this up for him.


Her second attempt was, of course, flawless,


and received a standing ovation from the audience


at the Staples Centre in Los Angeles.


She went on to win five - count them - five Grammys,


but said Beyonce should have won album of the year over her.


Producers Danger Mouse, Samuel Dickson...


My artist of my life is Beyonce and this album, for


me, the Lemonade album, was just so monumental.


And the way that you may me and my friends feel,


the way you make my black friends feel, is empowering,


and you make them stand up for themselves and I love you.


There is a curse that will be broken.


My intention for the film and album was to create a body of work that


would give a voice to our pain, our struggles, our darkness and our


To confront issues that make us uncomfortable.


I just want to thank President Agent Orange


for perpetuating all of the evil that you have perpetuated


Shout outs to every independent artist out there.


Shout outs to Soundcloud for holding me down.


That was Chicago's Chance the Rapper, who won three Grammys,


By the way, this is Gnarls Barkley singer CeeLo Green, who you'll


know for his song Crazy, as he arrived at the Grammys last


night in a particularly crazy outfit - part Tin Man,


And, of course, it was also the BATFAs last night.


La La land, the Hollywood musical, was the big winner with five awards,


including best film and best actress for Emma Stone.


When I was a young kid, my mother would


take me to the Al-Anon meetings for children of alcoholics


and there would be lots of kids there and they would re-enact the


person at their home who they were trying to understand.


It was therapy, but it was acting, and it


And acting has sort of been that the ever since.


They can entertain, they can terrify, they can take us


to worlds of the imagination, they can make us laugh and they can tell


something about the real world we live in.


August answers that question so brilliantly.


Because what he did is he said that our


that lives mattered as African Americans.


And the BAFTA goes to Dev Patel for Lion.


Please welcome to the stage Mel Brooks.


I think BAFTA has made good choices to diet, especially me.


I want to apologise to the Duke and the Duchess and Prince Philip


There is the costume! I'm guessing it is a mask. I'm guessing he just


wanted us to talk about it. I guess he has succeeded.


Let's get some analysis of all of last night's celebrity


news with Hollywood journalist Jeanne Wolf, who watched


every second of last night's Grammy awards.


Let's talk about Adele. I saw things on Twitter saying she had actually


split her award in half. Is that true? It is true. Here is what


happens. Once you win the award and we saw when she won that third award


how flustered she was and how she almost wanted to give it over to


Beyonce and she said she wished she hadn't won it. When you finish, you


go backstage and they take photographs of you and you go to the


press room and in the press room she appeared with her Grammy in two


pieces saying, "This has to go to Beyonce. Album of the year was Lemon


in aid." She just felt very funny about it. Of course, she accepted


it. Five years ago, she won the five big awards at the Grammys and now,


with the album 25, she has done it again.


Do we know if Beyonce took the bit of the award that she snapped off?


Well, I think we'll read all about that in the morning! I'm sure


they'll meet up at parties if Beyonce in her condition feels like


going dancing! But in any case, no Adele wanted to make a very public,


very talked about gesture. Talking about Beyonce of course, in her


condition, she is several months pregnant. She sat on a chair and it


went back in one of he amazing performances. It was incredible.


Tell us about the other big winners of the night.


You will read the full list of winners, the once people are talking


about our Dell and Beyonce. The others were evenly spread around and


there was a lot of talk about how political the night would be and how


the performances would be, there were tributes and performances,


winners all over the place. There is a two our show before the show goes


on air, so many awards are given out that night. Beyonce did win a couple


of Grammy awards but when it came to the big ones, it was all Adele. You


know that she started singing her tribute song to George Michael and


felt that she was off key, said a swear word, apologised more than you


would expect from an artist, and Sergei had to start again, and when


she did she was amazing. So all the conversation today, everyone else is


eclipsed, in their own minds, you will have heard the speech is, it


takes a lot to stick to being a musician. Your pride in your music,


and the music industry puts barriers at every point. And she is a mother,


she does this all with a child. They you for speaking to us.


Legendary director Ken Loach picked up the award for Best British film


for I, Daniel Blake, about the UK's welfare system.


You can see our exclusive interview with him last


week on the programme page - bbc.co.uk/victoria.


We are a little late again, but here is Ben with the news. Thank you. A


BBC investigation has found major security failings at a privately run


prison in north-east England, panorama found a number of problems


including inmates using drugs, the organisation that runs the prison


says safety is as priority. The Ministry of Justice is to


investigate the footage and says the government is committed to reforming


prisons. The Co-op bank is up for sale. It has over 4 million


customers but almost collapsed in 2013 after financial problems. Since


then it has been run by private investment companies who say they


have now made considerable progress in turning the business around.


Almost 200,000 people in Northern California are being evacuated from


their homes after the tallest dam in the USA was weakened by heavy


rainfall. Officials feared the Oroville dam could be about to


collapse after a giant hole developed in the overflow channel.


Crews using helicopters have dropped rocks to fill the hole in the


spillway and the excess water has stopped flowing. That's the latest


news. Join me for BBC Newsroom live at 11am. Now the sport with Will.


Breaking news, it has been confirmed that Joe Root will be named


England's test captain at 11am. The Yorkshire batsman will succeed


Alastair Cook who resigned after more than four years in charge last


week. A press conference will be held at Headingley on Wednesday.


Official figures today show that 39% of players in the English football


league last season were not drugs tested by UK anti-doping.


The FA say it prioritised its anti-doping programme at the elite


end. Claudio Ranieri says he may have been too loyal to his Leicester


players with Ed Premier League title defence now a relegation battle,


they one point above the bottom three after losing yesterday at


Swansea. France beat Scotland 22-16 in the six Nations, the tenth time


in a row Scotland have lost in Paris. England on the only unbeaten


side in the tournament after two games. More news on the BBC News


channel throughout the day. You. Parents have told this programme


they were conned out of thousands of pounds by an organisation that


claimed it could win The Parents' Voice London offered


McKenzie Friend services. They're people who generally aren't


legally trained and are meant to provide support for those


going through the family courts. Two of the company's directors,


David Bright and Claire Mann, were jailed last year for perverting


the course of justice. There are now calls for regulations


of McKenzie Friends. We can speak to Amanda MacPherson, herself a


McKenzie Friend charges clients, and Derek Sweeting QC from the bar


Council which represents barristers in England and Wales.


People may not know who McKenzie Friends R. They are helping people


who go through any court and represent themselves, they have


chosen to do away with traditional representation, perhaps because of


cost or perhaps because they choose to speak for themselves. And you do


what, fill-in forms? Yes, McKenzie Friends will complete forms for


parents, will take them through the process, often give them more


support than a solicitor would, and can attend court with them and sit


beside them, often not able to speak directly to the court or to the


judge, but sometimes given permission to do that. What are you


charging? Most of the advice I give, in fact all the advice I give is


free. I don't charge a penny for advising throughout the case. But I


do charge for its direct work. 45p an hour is my rate. And expenses


like travel which is half my hourly rate. Which is a fraction of the


cost that parents would incur through a solicitor or a barrister.


Derek, what are your concerns with McKenzie Friends services? This is


an area of operation caused by the withdrawal of legal aid and what you


are getting is someone who people don't appreciate is not regulated,


that means no training, no knowledge of the law, not insured, no redress


if things go wrong you can't report them to the legal ombudsman, there


is no regulator and you are not getting anyone who can stand up and


speak for you in court. That is a misconception. And often, when they


do charge, not all McKenzie Friends tube and when they do they sometimes


charge similar amounts to what a barrister or solicitor would charge.


Do you have any qualifications? I don't, I have none. Some people


might be worried by that. Of course. They may well. Anyone looking for a


McKenzie Friend should check out the person they want to use, ask them


what their experience is, ask if they can speak to clients who have


used them before and they should be absolutely confident that this


person knows what they are doing. Should there be greater regulation?


This is what we are waiting to hear. We're waiting to hear if there will


be greater regulation. Myself, I wouldn't be averse to regulation. I


think it should be done in close consultation with clients, people


looking to use McKenzie Friends, and McKenzie Friends themselves and the


judiciary. In my experience judges often welcome the assistance of a


McKenzie Friend, especially in cases where both parties are not


represented, they are on their own. What the judiciary also expressed


their reservations about is whether there ought to be paid McKenzie


Friends because this is one area where unscrupulous people like the


ones we heard about, find it easy to operate because there is no


supervision, there is no regulation. But then it helps people who don't


have much money and can't afford enormous legal bills that sometimes


people face. That is a misconception, of course there are


McKenzie Friends who are competent and experienced like Amanda and they


perform a good service for many people. But and is a misconception


to say it is so expensive that many people can't afford a lawyer. You


can instruct a barrister directly. The charges are often in the same


sort of area you would pay for a paid McKenzie Friend. And it doesn't


look convinced. That's not the case. I've had parents approach me to say


that they have had solicitors wanting ?250 to read a letter and


advise them on their next step. That's not affordable for many


people. It isn't true, parents often face many years in court, especially


when involved in protracted cases to spend time with their children and


they face thousands upon thousands of pounds which adds insult to


injury when they are not spending time with their children. These are


comments coming in. Darren says he used a McKenzie Friend and they were


brilliant. When e-mail says that they are experiencing the damage


that McKenzie Friends can do and that it led to 18 months of hell for


their family. Thank you both for coming in. You can watch our


complete report on McKenzie Friends on our website.


When you see an offer on display at the supermarket


you expect to receive it when you get to the tills.


But that wasn't happening - and now Tesco says it will check


the prices of all items in every store after an investigation found


customers were being short-changed on promotions.


An undercover reporter for BBC Inside Out was overcharged


on multi-buy offers at two-thirds of stores visited.


cases multi-buy deals were still being advertised


on the shelves months after they had expired.


Most of us are, and Tesco knows it, too.


That's why the shelves at Britain's biggest


supermarket are full of special offers.


And we all take it for granted that the


price we see on the shelf is the price we will pay at the till,


But what if things don't quite add up when you get home and


I've just bought a few bits at Tesco and I'm


sure these products were on special offer.


But according to my receipt, I've paid full price.


I've paid 60% more than the deal on the shelf.


So does this happen more often than we think?


Fergus Muirhead is a consumer journalist who says there's clearly


something wrong in the way offers have been delivered.


And Catherine Shuttleworth, is from Savvy Marketing, which works


Welcome to you all. First, Fergus, are you surprised that this is


happening? I think it has been happening for a long time. It's


quite often the case, I think, that you don't get what you think you are


getting in supermarkets. That is what it is so important to check


your receipt when you leave to make sure you paid what you thought you


were going to for the goods you bought. There is no question that


supermarkets make mistakes. I'm surprised that a number of Tesco


shops are making the mistake, it's a big number and I'm surprised it's


happening so often that it is important that as consumers we check


what we have bored when we are at the till, that the three for two or


the two-for-one offers have been priced correctly. That's all well


and good when I shop alone but when my children with me and they are


arguing and they want some chocolate and they are being annoying, or you


are an old person and you get confused by things why should it be


the responsibility of the consumer to check their receipts? I'm not


saying it is the consumer's responsibility, they have to check


and they should make sure what they have spent is right although Tesco


should take part of the blame, they've obviously got sloppy


management going on and offers that should be taken off the shelves


should be taken off because it is absolutely their responsibility and


they need to do something about it. Guy, what tactics do we need to be


aware of that supermarkets used to make us spend more? Not all offers


are good, and multi-byte offers like three for two or something that


would normally cost ?1 50 and two of them would cost ?2, if you were


going to buy two of them anyway, a good deal but often they tempted to


buy an extra product when you didn't want it. Take fresh produce, meat or


cheese which could go off. If you buy a second or third item and it


goes off because you don't have the time it's not a good deal. Much


better offers are two for one because if you were going to buy


something anyway it is free or a genuine reduction. Or if you buy


something like toothpaste which has a shelf life it does not matter if


you get an extra one. Are sometimes stocked up, the problem is where


it's going to go off. Tesco told us, "We take great care


to deliver clear and accurate price labels for our customers so they can


make informed decisions We are disappointed that errors


occurred and will be working with the stores involved


to reinforce our responsibilities It is an issue of trust, isn't it,


between massive stores, where it is hugely competitive now and the


consumer? Absolutely and Tesco will be really frustrated by this and I


would imagine that they are out checking the stores today as will be


their competitors. This isn't just something that happens in Tesco, it


will happen across the whole of the retail estate and that's important


to remember is the scale and the size of the retailers. An average


supermarket will have 60,000 individual lines and there will be


1,000 price changes a week, prices will go up as well as down and


promotions will finish and they are delivered by human beings and there


is error in there and it is important the businesses are well


run so customers can trust them. We believe that Tesco won't rip us off.


75% of us trust Tesco and this will be a worry for them today and they


will want to make sure they within the trust straight back.


Thank you for coming in and talking to us.


The full investigation can be seen in some English regions tonight


on Inside Out at 7.30pm on BBC One, and on the BBC iPlayer.


The children of a couple who died of cancer


within days have released this heartbreaking photo to show


the world how much they loved each other and were together to the end.


Tens of thousands of people living below the tallest dam


in the United States have left their homes because of fears


that an emergency overflow channel could give way.


Weeks of heavy rain and snow have left the Oroville dam


in Northern California at almost full capacity.


Engineers have been trying to release some of the water


and plug a hole in the channel by dropping rocks from helicopters.


A little earlier, authorities explained the nature


Essentially what we're looking at is approximately a 30-foot wall


of water that would be coming out of the lake.


Not the lake drained, but a 30-foot wall of water.


That is why we took the appropriate measures that we did.


And implemented the evacuation process that we had going.


In Butte County, what we're looking at is approximately 35,000 residents


Yuba County, we're looking at 65,000 underneath an evacuation order.


Yuba city, 76,000 under evacuation warning.


We can speak to two people who had to leave their homes.


Veronica Ruiv, who is one of the 70,000 people


She's travelling in a convoy of five cars with her family,


And to Xavier Goeas, who has been evacuated


He's travelling with his father and other members of family.


Veronica, are you still in your car? No, not anymore. I just made it to a


hotel. So how, are you in a safe area right now? Yes, we are in


Sacramento right now. Tell us how the authorities let you know you had


to get out and how much time you had? I found out through Facebook


through the Facebook channels of the emergency system of Yuba City and


all of our surrounding friends from the Mary's vil area who are closer


to the river which is, has been flooded before. So, they are at a


much higher risk than Yuba, the Marysvil area. Were you worried? My


brother was at the tennis courts by the river. It is at a park located


next to, where the river runs through. I was worried about him. We


got in our car and we took off the whole family and we went to him and


we picked him up and I read the official report by the National


Weather Service about how the damage to the dam could have a critical


failure or something like that in less than 60 minutes and the streets


filled with cars and they were just driving erratically and we just had


to get out of there. A sense of panic. Veronica, was it the same as


you were leaving with all the cars? Once I left the parkway of my home I


realised that the situation was much more serious than what I expected.


How much time did you have? We said your three daughters were in the


car. It is difficult to get girls to do anything quickly. Did you have to


pack bags quickly? They moved much faster than I did it time! Do you


know what they packed? I spoke to a woman who had to leave her home


because of wildfires and she told me her six-year-old daughter packed 12


pairs of pyjamas and nothing else? My oldest daughter did not pack very


much! My youngest packed all of her art stuff. I don't know why, but she


is an artist and she likes to pack her crayons and my middle child says


she didn't bring anything besides her iPhone! Maybe that's all she


needs. Are you getting good communication about how long you


have to stay away and whether the dam is likely to burst? I checked on


Facebook and it's still mandatory to evacuate from Yuba City so they have


not let us know when we're able to go back. What information are you


getting? We haven't got, what I do know is when I left town that the


evacuation order would be in effect until 4.15 tomorrow or today now on


Monday. However, I watched the news report and he changed his language


that the sheriff of the county, he chaunged it from 4.15pm to until


further notice. So I mean that sort of hints to me that the situation


could be getting worse or it might just remain where I can't go home


until a longer time. Thank you both for joining us. Good


luck. I hope you get back to your homes soon. Stay safe and thank you


for talking to us. The channel was weakened by heavy


rainfall. I don't know why we were talking about that. We have just


spoken to those people. The children of a terminally ill


couple who died of cancer within days of each other have


shared this moving photograph of their parents'


last moments together. Now it shows 57-year-old


Mike Bennet and his 50-year-old wife Julie holding hands


in a Merseyside hospice. Mr Bennet died last Monday and his


wife died late Saturday night. We can speak to a friend of


the family Heather Heaton Gallagher. Heather, it is a really moving


picture. I can't imagine what the family is going through right now.


It must have been incredibly difficult to make that decision to


release it? Yes. I think I will tell you how the photograph came around.


Both Julia and Mike were in arrow park Hospital. They have done a


marvellous job. Mike had become really unwell and he was blue


lighted into Arrow Park and the nursing team have been brilliant.


Mike has been unwell for threeiers and he has been in and out of care


and he has been fighting this battle and had various operations and


treatment and Julie became really unwell between April last year and


the diagnosis in May, both they different kind of cancer, you know,


you couldn't write it, could you? So obviously they were in arrow park


together and Julie became unwell and admitted herself and the hospital


staff pushed the beds together knowing that Mike was nearing the


end. The photograph was taken by a relative, by one of the aunties and


it was purely because it was a beautiful photograph. These were two


people who were pea ins a pod and loved each other detail crisis and


they brought their kids up with that. They are a solid family unit.


The kids released the photograph because, because of who they are and


where they sit-in the community. Everyone was asking all the time how


is Julie? How is Mike? What's the news? What's the update? Where are


we? Can we do anything? It was to help people understand, it was a


case of no, dad has passed and this was taken of the it was done out of


love and sharing the photograph and the image and they were OK and they


were there together. That's how the photograph came around, but we


didn't expect the response we've from everyone around the world. It


is really overwhelmed everyone and we are astonished and we are


grateful for the support that the family has got at the moment. You


say from around the world. So have you got people getting in touch from


well beyond these shores? Oaks far and beyond. We have set-up a Just


Giving page and that's around raising funds to help the three kids


Luke, Hannah and Olly to fulfil the dreams and ambitions that Julie and


Mike thud had. They didn't want Luke to drop out of university and Hannah


to end college and go into a jobment they want them to continue their


studies of the that's what the fund was set-up for. The fund has grown


and it has expanded beyond our belief and people are reaching out.


The stories come from all walks of life. There was a chap from Canada


who said his brother, his brother-in-law was in the same


situation and he lost both his parents. There is another family


from America and they said, you know, I was that kid. I lost my


parents when I was young. We get, you know, there is a pensioner from


Scotland who made contact and said, "I can't afford to give you any


money, but I'm going to knit something and I'll put it towards


the auction." There was a homeless guy in Liverpool at the weekend who


heard the conversations and all he collected that day, that ?2.56 he


wanted it to go to the kids. He knew the impact that these kids faced.


That's amazing. That must be immense comfort to their children. I know


that you've spoken to them. What have they been saying to you? They


can't believe it. They're astoweded. You know, when I share some of the


comments, they just can't believe the support and it has really struck


a chord. It helps them understand this is life changing for them. This


huge community has got together and put their arms around them and said,


it is a bit pants right now, but it will be OK. It helping with their


grieving do you think? I don't think, money doesn't help with


grieving. It will take time for them to sink in. Monday morning and Olly


wanted to go to school today. Your mum is not there and she is not


ready to pack lunch or not given you money for your school dinners. Did


you clean your shoes and where is your diary? Have I signed it? Those


are the things that will impact the kids. They have not kaunties and


aUngles staying with them and they're supporting them and as the


kids get used to this, the aim is we keep them in the family home


together. Mike and Julie have just brought up three amazing kids. They


are solid as a unit together. You will find Hannah, will whip Olly


into shape and you will find Luke will be giving Hannah that hug as a


big brother does and they're there for each other now. Thank you for


speaking to us. Heather. What's the Just Giving number up to? ?112,000.


That's amazing. From everyone in the family, thank you. Heather, thank


you. Thanks for your company. Joanna will be presenting the programme


tomorrow. You can reach out to us on Twitter.


# I knew you were trouble when you walked in


# Now I'm lying on the cold, hard ground