06/04/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


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06/04/2017

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Hello, it's nine o'clock. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:10.:00:11.

In the next hour, a landmark court ruling on whether parents in England

:00:12.:00:15.

can take their children on holiday in term time.

:00:16.:00:23.

And I will be at the Supreme Court bringing you live reaction to that

:00:24.:00:29.

judgment. We are expecting it in the next hour.

:00:30.:00:31.

Cuts to bereavement payments - something we've been talking

:00:32.:00:33.

about all week on the programme - come into effect today.

:00:34.:00:35.

We'll hear from a group of parents calling on the government

:00:36.:00:38.

And how to bounce back from massive disappointment. There is a head shot

:00:39.:00:51.

in the last second. Olympic silver medallist

:00:52.:00:52.

Lutalo Mohammed, who missed out on a gold by one second,

:00:53.:00:54.

has been speaking to others We dropped from the darlings of the

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computer industry down to virtually zero. And that was a very, very

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tough time. We're live until 11

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o'clock this morning. We're also talking about free

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school meals this morning. The Labour leader says

:01:24.:01:25.

if they win the election, they will tax private

:01:26.:01:28.

school fees and pay for all children in state primary schools

:01:29.:01:31.

to have free meals. Let us know what you

:01:32.:01:34.

think of the idea. Or do you think there are better

:01:35.:01:36.

ways to spend the money? Are you one of the parents paying

:01:37.:01:40.

school fees who would have Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:41.:01:43.

we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag Victoria live,

:01:44.:01:47.

and if you text, you will be charged The Supreme Court will rule today

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on whether parents can take their children on holiday

:01:51.:01:55.

in term time, without It's considering the case

:01:56.:01:57.

of John Platt, who refused to pay a fine after taking his daughter

:01:58.:02:03.

to Florida for a week in 2015. The decision could mean big changes

:02:04.:02:06.

for parents across England, as our legal affairs correspondent

:02:07.:02:11.

Clive Coleman reports In 2015, Jon Platt took his

:02:12.:02:17.

daughter out of school He was fined ?120 by his local

:02:18.:02:20.

council on the Isle of Wight. He refused to pay, as his daughter

:02:21.:02:25.

was regularly attending school. She had a more than 90% attendance

:02:26.:02:34.

record. One in nine parents received

:02:35.:02:39.

a truancy penalty last year. That's a staggering number of people

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who received these fines last year. My assessment is that any

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unauthorised absence was a criminal offence, according to

:02:49.:02:50.

the Isle of Wight Council. Following concerns that some

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families saw term time holidays at cheaper prices as a right, rules

:02:53.:02:54.

came in in 2013, allowing local councils to fine a parent ?60

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per child, doubling to ?120 if not But the fines did not

:02:59.:03:01.

stop a rise in absences. Last year, more than 80,000 pupils

:03:02.:03:10.

in England missed one or more sessions of school

:03:11.:03:13.

for family holidays. That is up more than 100,000

:03:14.:03:15.

from the previous year. Term-time holidays account

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for a quarter of sessions. The Department for Education says

:03:22.:03:27.

unauthorised absences damage life The chaos caused by a child missing

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for an extended period of time, three, four, five days,

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two weeks, can be huge. The impact will ripple

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on for months afterwards. If coming to school did not make

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a difference, we would not send The court case centres

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on what amounts to regular A win for Jon Platt would give

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parents more confidence to take their children on holiday

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during term-time, knowing And you can see Jon Platt right now

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arriving at the Supreme Court to hear the ruling. He is the dad at

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the centre of this case. There he is outside having his photograph taken

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by members of the press. Clive, this is a big deal for parents, teachers

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and the Department of education? It is a huge deal. We know that parents

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head the fact if you take your child on holiday during the school

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holidays, you pay more money. There are many parents... In fact, ending

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and last year there were 800,000 children who missed school because

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they were taken on holiday by their parents during term time. It is a

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really big issue. The Department of education argues that if you do

:04:55.:04:59.

that, you are damaging your child's chances at GCSE level and indeed

:05:00.:05:03.

their life chances. Parents on the other hand, like Jon Platt, argue

:05:04.:05:07.

that if their child is regularly attending, and his daughter had

:05:08.:05:13.

something like a 90% plus attendance record, then it is legitimate to be

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able to take the child on holiday during term time. What casually

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centres on is what amounts to regular attendance. And when that is

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looked at in terms of whether someone has committed an offence, do

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you simply look at the holiday time? Someone is taking a holiday for a

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week, clearly there cannot be regularly attending during that

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period. But if they have a good attendance records during the term

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itself, you could argue they are regularly attending. The court will

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determine what is regular attendance and what parents are allowed to do.

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We will be back with you as soon as the judgment comes in. We are

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expecting it before ten o'clock. As soon as it comes in, we would bring

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it alive. Now the rest of the morning's news.

:06:02.:06:03.

The White House has issued a warning to Russia over its support

:06:04.:06:06.

of the Syrian regime, following chemical attacks

:06:07.:06:07.

which killed at least 72 people earlier this week.

:06:08.:06:11.

Donald Trump condemned the attacks as "an affront to humanity" -

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it comes ahead of his meeting with Chinese president Xi Jinping

:06:15.:06:17.

Labour says if it wins the next election, it'll provide every

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primary school pupil in England with a free school meal, by charging

:06:26.:06:28.

Jeremy Corbyn will say this morning that a Labour government

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would invest in schools to ensure no child is held back because

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But the move has been criticised by the Independent Schools Council,

:06:36.:06:39.

which claims the sums do not add up.

:06:40.:06:43.

The Care Quality Commission is to release critical

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reports into four online pharmacies in England.

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Concerns were raised by the CQC about all four pharmacies.

:06:49.:06:53.

One pharmacy was found to employ a clinician who wasn't registered

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Another pharmacy has been suspended from registered practice.

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Victoria will be discussing whether online pharmacies pose potential

:07:07.:07:09.

dangers later. A mother who went missing

:07:10.:07:11.

with her two young sons has been Samantha Baldwin was last seen

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with six-year-old Dylan and nine-year-old Louis

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in Nottingham on the Nottinghamshire Police said

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all three have been found There's a call for the drug ketamine

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to be used more widely by the NHS Psychiatrists in Oxford say they've

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had some success with a human trial using the Class B substance,

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which is also used They're now calling for a national

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database to be established, so that doctors who prescribe it can

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monitor its results, From today, companies that employ

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more than 250 staff will be legally required to publish the average

:07:53.:07:54.

salaries they pay men and women. About half of the UK workforce

:07:55.:07:57.

will be affected by the new rules. Education Secretary Justine

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Greening, who's also the Minister for Women and Equalities,

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says the measures are being brought There are many great companies

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in our country doing a fantastic job of bringing through

:08:06.:08:13.

our female talent. We want to see more companies doing

:08:14.:08:16.

that, but we think transparencies on reporting on that pay gap is part

:08:17.:08:19.

of figuring out how that happens. Pepsi has pulled its controversial

:08:20.:08:27.

new advert starring Kendall Jenner, after criticism that it was trying

:08:28.:08:30.

to commercialise protest movements The company received thousands

:08:31.:08:32.

of complaints about the tone and the content of the advert,

:08:33.:08:38.

in which Jenner joins a demonstration and gives

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a can of the soft drink Pepsi says it was trying to project

:08:43.:08:44.

a "global message of unity, peace and understanding",

:08:45.:08:48.

and apologised for, in its words, A headteacher at a US high

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school has resigned, after the student newspaper cast

:08:51.:08:56.

doubt on her qualifications. The investigation by six

:08:57.:08:58.

Pittsburg High School students has The head teacher, Amy Robertson,

:08:59.:09:01.

said she had no comment in response to the questions

:09:02.:09:07.

about her credentials, saying "their concerns

:09:08.:09:09.

are not based on facts". A motorcyclist in Australia

:09:10.:09:15.

had a lucky escape in an unusual traffic

:09:16.:09:17.

accident, when he was hit by a flying mattress.

:09:18.:09:19.

The drama was caught on CCTV. The mattress flew off the back

:09:20.:09:21.

of a van, straight into the path Thankfully, he managed to keep

:09:22.:09:25.

control - and the mattress did at least give him a soft landing.

:09:26.:09:32.

No-one was hurt in the incident. That's a summary of

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the latest BBC News. Do get in touch with us

:09:38.:09:39.

throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria live,

:09:40.:09:48.

and if you text, you will be charged It looks like Chelsea are going to

:09:49.:09:58.

win the Premier League this year? I think Chelsea are definitely a step

:09:59.:10:03.

closer. They have one hand on the trophy, or fingertips at least.

:10:04.:10:07.

There remain seven points clear at the top of the Premier League table

:10:08.:10:11.

after beating Manchester City last night. After the shock defeat

:10:12.:10:15.

against Crystal Palace, they needed a big performance and that is what

:10:16.:10:19.

they got, particularly from Eden Hazard, who scored his 15th and 16th

:10:20.:10:25.

goals of the season. Antonio Conte thinks they need six wins from their

:10:26.:10:29.

last eight games. They have struggling Sunderland and

:10:30.:10:33.

Middlesbrough still to play. It should be possible. But they have to

:10:34.:10:37.

go to Manchester United and Everton. They could be potential hurdles. If

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you look of the way they play, Chelsea are hard to break down and

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know how to grind out a win. It certainly looks as though they may

:10:47.:10:50.

be on for another Premier League title. Amazing scenes at Newcastle

:10:51.:10:55.

last night with a referee who didn't know the rules. What was going on? I

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don't think anybody knew what was going on. It was chaos. This is

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Newcastle, pushing for promotion back into the Premier League. They

:11:05.:11:09.

are at home to Burton. They knew a win would take them back to the top

:11:10.:11:15.

of the Championship. Matt Ritchie, the Newcastle midfielder, was given

:11:16.:11:19.

a penalty which he converted. But the referee was not happy. He feels

:11:20.:11:22.

that one of the Newcastle players was in the box whilst the penalty

:11:23.:11:27.

was being taken. Instead, as everyone would expect, for the

:11:28.:11:35.

referee to command a retake, he gave Burton and indirect free kick. Cue

:11:36.:11:40.

absolute pandemonium in the stadium. 50,000 fans incensed, not knowing

:11:41.:11:45.

what was happening, when the referee had given the decision. Look of the

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referee. Newcastle manager Rafa Benitez absolutely incensed,

:11:53.:11:56.

questioning the referee. Very unusually, this hardly ever happens,

:11:57.:11:59.

the referee ruling body released a statement to set the rules of the

:12:00.:12:03.

game have been misapplied. The referee has apologised. I am sure he

:12:04.:12:08.

was relieved to see Matt Ritchie score, Newcastle win and return to

:12:09.:12:12.

the top of the championship macro. Crazy scenes. And it looks like the

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favourite for the Masters could be out after falling down the stairs?

:12:17.:12:21.

Yes, a freak accident for Dustin Johnson. He is the world number one.

:12:22.:12:26.

He has won the last three tournaments he has been involved in.

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This is the biggest event on the golfing calendar. He has taken a

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fall down the stairs and injured his lower back. This was in the house he

:12:35.:12:38.

is renting during the tournament in Augusta. His manager says he is

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resting he is on a of anti-inflammatories with a hope of

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still playing. He was the favourite to win. That is seriously in doubt

:12:49.:12:52.

now. Back injuries are notoriously complicated for golfers, one of the

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worst injuries you can suffer. In his favour, he does have one of the

:12:58.:13:01.

later to times. He doesn't tee off onto three minutes past seven this

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evening. Fingers crossed for him. Thank you. More sport later. Good

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morning. Welcome to the programme. Today is the day that cuts

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made by the government It's also the day a coalition

:13:14.:13:15.

of charities is setting up a taskforce to try

:13:16.:13:19.

to fight the changes. From today, any parent

:13:20.:13:21.

who loses their spouse or civil partner will be able to claim

:13:22.:13:25.

a maximum of 18 months of financial support -

:13:26.:13:27.

that's down from 20 years. It also includes an increase

:13:28.:13:31.

in the initial lump sum from ?2000 to ?3500,

:13:32.:13:34.

and people without children will On Tuesday, we spoke to Alan -

:13:35.:13:38.

not his real name - who has incurable cancer,

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and has been told he He told us he's worked out

:13:44.:13:46.

that if he died before the changes came in,

:13:47.:13:51.

his wife and two children would have Now they will they receive,

:13:52.:13:53.

he says, up to ?6000. At this point, it wasn't life,

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you're contemplating death, and you want to go out of this world

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with some dignity, with some grace, with some peace of mind,

:14:09.:14:11.

not full of financial anxiety, feeling as if the Government has

:14:12.:14:19.

just taken money away from you. This case was raised in the House of

:14:20.:14:41.

Lords on Tuesday. Can I urge the Minister to talk to his ministerial

:14:42.:14:44.

colleagues so that the government can display understanding and

:14:45.:14:50.

humanity, and allow this brave young man to pass peacefully from this

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world, with dignity, in the knowledge that the financial future

:14:56.:15:01.

of his children is taking care of? Can I first say to my noble friend

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how sorry I am to hear about this case of this young man. And to offer

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my sympathies both to him and his family. I appreciate the urgency and

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I understand that this person may not have long to live. I shall

:15:18.:15:21.

certainly speak to colleagues as soon as humanly possible and come

:15:22.:15:24.

back to him with information on the situation.

:15:25.:15:29.

For the third day running, we asked for someone

:15:30.:15:31.

from the Department for Work and Pensions to talk to us today,

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to explain the reforms on the day they come in.

:15:35.:15:36.

They gave us the statement they sent us

:15:37.:15:39.

Conservative peer Lord Pollock the sphere and

:15:40.:16:17.

Also with us, Be sphere and n Brooks-Dutton,

:16:18.:16:19.

and widow who lost his wife a year after they married,

:16:20.:16:23.

leaving him to raise their two-year-old alone.

:16:24.:16:24.

Georgia Elms is a campaigner for the Widowed and Young charity,

:16:25.:16:27.

who was pregnant with her daughter when her husband, Jonathan, died

:16:28.:16:30.

And in Warwick, Beth and eight-year-old Sam.

:16:31.:16:33.

Beth has asked us not use her surname.

:16:34.:16:35.

She was left to bring up two boys when her husband, Duncan, died

:16:36.:16:38.

of an undiagnosed heart condition while playing

:16:39.:16:39.

welcome all of you. Thank you for coming on the programme. I will talk

:16:40.:16:51.

to Beth and Sam. Good morning to you. Morning. Good morning. Beth,

:16:52.:16:58.

the payments you received, how much did you need them and how much the

:16:59.:17:03.

due continued to use them? I was very fortunate that my husband

:17:04.:17:06.

Duncan worked for a very large engineering firm, and we have a good

:17:07.:17:10.

pension. However when I realised that my job was no longer tenable

:17:11.:17:13.

because I travel round the county are a lot for work as a teacher,

:17:14.:17:17.

travelling around different schools, and when I and a five-year-old as a

:17:18.:17:23.

single parent, I had to give up that job. When I went back to work, took

:17:24.:17:31.

on a job that required me to take a pay drop of nine tenths of our

:17:32.:17:34.

salary so all of a sudden our income was virtually halved. Consequently

:17:35.:17:38.

there was very difficult to deal with, so the widowed parents

:17:39.:17:43.

allowance allowed us to be able to do the things we used to do before

:17:44.:17:46.

Duncan died and I think that is important that our standard of

:17:47.:17:48.

living has remained roughly the same but mainly because of his pension.

:17:49.:17:52.

The widowed parents allowance just gives us a little extra to make sure

:17:53.:17:58.

we are able to go out and enjoy life as much as we can give on our new

:17:59.:18:03.

circumstances. Let me ask you this, Beth, because some of our audience

:18:04.:18:07.

do, do you think it is fair that other taxpayers should pay to the

:18:08.:18:10.

allowance you have been receiving when you do have Duncan's pension. I

:18:11.:18:16.

think it is very important to be clear that the widowed parents

:18:17.:18:19.

allowance is based on Duncan's national insurance contributions, so

:18:20.:18:25.

he paid in with his employer approximately ?100,000 over the time

:18:26.:18:28.

he was working for Jaguar Land Rover, semester that would have come

:18:29.:18:32.

back to him in his state pension, and obviously he is not going to be

:18:33.:18:35.

able to claim that now, having not live long enough to do so. So

:18:36.:18:40.

although it is seen as a benefit, it is actually an allowance based on

:18:41.:18:43.

his national insurance contributions, so the way that other

:18:44.:18:47.

people claim their state pension, it should be fair that we claim this to

:18:48.:18:55.

help the boys do what they would be able to have done otherwise. Sam

:18:56.:18:59.

Connor you have written a letter, who is it too? To Mr Wight. Who is

:19:00.:19:08.

that? Our MP. Anything you are happy to read us a bit of your letter?

:19:09.:19:15.

Yes. Go ahead, in your own time. Dear Mr Wight, I am writing to

:19:16.:19:19.

inform you that reducing the money of the widowed will" panic and

:19:20.:19:26.

worry. The widowed panic putt allowance, we think it is unfair

:19:27.:19:32.

that you are taking it away after 18 months. My daddy died when I was

:19:33.:19:38.

five and my brother Tom was three. The money my mother has received has

:19:39.:19:40.

helped considerably. Mummy would be more stressed. WPA means that Mum

:19:41.:19:48.

can still do my drop-offs and pick-ups at school. She can talk to

:19:49.:19:51.

my teacher if I am feeling sad or poorly. I look forward to a huge

:19:52.:19:55.

cuddle if I have had a bad day. I sometimes still feel flooded with

:19:56.:20:00.

sadness nearly four years later. I was to have stated when my daddy

:20:01.:20:04.

died and others will be too. They deserve to treated better when this

:20:05.:20:12.

tragedy hits them. Sam, that is so moving, thank you for reading that.

:20:13.:20:15.

I will just talk to our guests in the studio. You are doing a great

:20:16.:20:19.

job of listening I know you can't see us will stop Lord Pollock, first

:20:20.:20:26.

of all, the one and Sam was Mike case, Duncan died four years ago. As

:20:27.:20:34.

other people have said this week, grief does not simply last 18 months

:20:35.:20:38.

or it is how long the financial support be from today. Absolutely,

:20:39.:20:43.

that is why I am absolutely convinced it should work on the

:20:44.:20:47.

children. In other words while the children are in school or in

:20:48.:20:50.

full-time education, the money should be there to ensure they would

:20:51.:20:56.

be able to do, exactly as Sam said, or as Sam's mother said, so do the

:20:57.:21:00.

things he was able to do before. Sam is not the only one who has written

:21:01.:21:05.

a letter, you have too. I have, with some colleagues House of Lords we

:21:06.:21:09.

delivered a letter to the Secretary of State, Damian Green, last night.

:21:10.:21:14.

The Work and Pensions Secretary. After I raised, and you saw the

:21:15.:21:21.

clip, and... Do you know him personally? Damian Green? I have

:21:22.:21:25.

known Damian for 30 years. So it is not that you are both conservatives

:21:26.:21:29.

come you actually have a connection with him? Yes, I know him and I was

:21:30.:21:35.

prepared to write a letter to him because he was not involved actually

:21:36.:21:40.

when this was being discussed. When you go from a theoretical bill to

:21:41.:21:46.

now, today, the act becomes law, and now we are into the practical. I

:21:47.:21:51.

don't think anybody had intended when writing the bill and discussing

:21:52.:21:55.

the bill the consequences of what we have seen what you have been sharing

:21:56.:22:01.

all week. But that is their job. When you write new laws come you

:22:02.:22:05.

have to look at the outcomes of peoples lives. Is very difficult and

:22:06.:22:10.

different going from theoretical to the practical. Now we have an

:22:11.:22:12.

opportunity, that is why we have written this letter, to say this is

:22:13.:22:17.

a serious problem. I know myself, my wife is a very close friend of the

:22:18.:22:24.

wife of Alan and Katie, and I had a first cousin who died in her 30s,

:22:25.:22:29.

two years after her husband died and left two young daughters to be

:22:30.:22:31.

brought up by grandparents, so I understand it. Without attacking

:22:32.:22:37.

government, but we can say the government there is a solution, and

:22:38.:22:41.

Damian Green does not have a callous or cruel bone in his body. And I

:22:42.:22:46.

think that given all of the campaigns from people, I think there

:22:47.:22:52.

may be a solution to be found. Which is? Which is to work on the

:22:53.:22:59.

children, and hopefully he will see that children are the most

:23:00.:23:03.

important, and whilst they are in education, full-time education, this

:23:04.:23:06.

can be looked at. And he has the ability with his other ministers,

:23:07.:23:10.

who I now also very well, to discuss this now. It is not finished. Even

:23:11.:23:17.

though it is law, we can give solutions. So you can extend the 18

:23:18.:23:22.

months. That is what I would like to do, and we do have 18 months, it is

:23:23.:23:26.

not something that has to be done today, because anybody who is

:23:27.:23:28.

receiving this money will continue for the next 18 months. Ben, what

:23:29.:23:35.

you think about the changes? It has been very difficult to deal with

:23:36.:23:38.

over the past couple of weeks. I was in the film that Rio Ferdinand made,

:23:39.:23:42.

and I think what people saw, white awareness is up so much is that they

:23:43.:23:47.

got a glimpse of what it is like for a family to be bereaved. Can we just

:23:48.:23:51.

play that clip, you are in the kitchen with loads of other dads and

:23:52.:23:53.

it is very moving. I remember going to my wife's

:23:54.:23:56.

funeral and everyone said, "Just be strong, you're doing

:23:57.:24:03.

so well, you're doing so well." On reflection, I thought,

:24:04.:24:06.

"I'm not, I'm in shock." I was diagnosed with depression

:24:07.:24:11.

about two years in. I was struggling to be the dad

:24:12.:24:14.

that my son needed me to be. And then I realised that, actually,

:24:15.:24:20.

I was depressed before that, I was just depressed

:24:21.:24:22.

in a very active way. I got a lot of stuff done,

:24:23.:24:26.

like I was able to run a marathon, So what you as a viewer would have

:24:27.:24:46.

seen in that film is Rio eventually being able to start to talk to his

:24:47.:24:49.

children about their grief, but relief of the first time about the

:24:50.:24:54.

18 month mark, where today the support would stop. Now obviously he

:24:55.:24:58.

is a wealthy man, but before that are struggling, it is not a linear

:24:59.:25:02.

process, it is not like it ends. I think what has been happening

:25:03.:25:08.

recently is it has been very hard for other charities to get people to

:25:09.:25:11.

really care, because they have not been able to really engage. People

:25:12.:25:15.

have not been able to engage at that level and this programme has given

:25:16.:25:18.

them the opportunity to do that, and all the programming you have done

:25:19.:25:21.

this week. What we are asking for as part of this task force is for

:25:22.:25:26.

people to maintain that, social, we have created a series of videos that

:25:27.:25:35.

people can share so that people can really get an insight into what it

:25:36.:25:39.

is like. I won't speak for Georgia, she has her own very powerful story

:25:40.:25:42.

about this that we keep hearing time and time again about how actually

:25:43.:25:49.

children's grief ebbs and flows. And also as parents of grieved children,

:25:50.:25:53.

we are kind of grieving for more than one person. I find now that I

:25:54.:25:56.

am in quite a good place but my son has only just Turn. He was two and

:25:57.:26:03.

his mum was killed, he has only just got back to grips with what death

:26:04.:26:06.

is. I am struck, and one in the morning I have a very happy child

:26:07.:26:11.

that can't go to school, and then at the school gates I have a very

:26:12.:26:15.

melancholy child who feels he is the only person there who has not got a

:26:16.:26:20.

month. It is very hard to deal with. I have completely changed my life,

:26:21.:26:24.

cut my working hours, think most people need those choices that is

:26:25.:26:26.

that is what is stopping today, that choice that to continue. But I am

:26:27.:26:31.

hopeful we can make a change through this task force, because like you

:26:32.:26:35.

say, we have 18 months to make this change happen. They doesn't need to

:26:36.:26:39.

be the end and we don't want to. Georgia, hello, you had a good job

:26:40.:26:44.

with Mars, which I think you had to give up. So how would you have coped

:26:45.:26:47.

without the widowed parents allowance? I would have had to go

:26:48.:26:52.

back to work full-time. What impact would that have had? I would not

:26:53.:26:57.

have been around for my children. As I say, my husband died on the

:26:58.:27:01.

Wednesday, and then on the Thursday I found out I was pregnant with my

:27:02.:27:06.

second daughter. So with the 18 months, she would still have been a

:27:07.:27:11.

baby when I would have been having to replace my husband's income. And

:27:12.:27:15.

that is just not fair on my children. Also as Ben said about

:27:16.:27:23.

grief coming, both my children Daisy and Scarlet did not understand death

:27:24.:27:28.

until they were six or seven. I had to be available to take them to

:27:29.:27:31.

bereavement counselling, to pick them up from school, because they

:27:32.:27:36.

were scared I was not going to pick them up, because daddy had died,

:27:37.:27:41.

that might happen to me. You can't be a mum or a parent if you are not

:27:42.:27:45.

there for your children, and I could not have done that with my job. You

:27:46.:27:49.

know what the government says about this. First of all there are changes

:27:50.:27:54.

which, for example, widows, widowers who don't have children will benefit

:27:55.:27:58.

for the first time, they have increased the initial lump sum,

:27:59.:28:02.

tax-free etc. They also say it is updating a really old-fashioned

:28:03.:28:07.

system when women did not work, they would rely solely on their husband's

:28:08.:28:11.

income, and those days are gone because so many women work. What

:28:12.:28:16.

would you say to that? ?500 a month is not the second income. We're not

:28:17.:28:20.

saying it is replacing being come, it is just enabling you to go

:28:21.:28:27.

part-time to be able to be there for the -- not replacing the income. If

:28:28.:28:30.

they wanted to update it, then why are they not including parents who

:28:31.:28:35.

are not married? Last year, 50% of children were born to people who

:28:36.:28:39.

were not married. Those children are not being supported this way. This

:28:40.:28:44.

is why I say that we should concentrate on the children. That

:28:45.:28:51.

would cover that situation. I don't believe that anybody intended this,

:28:52.:28:55.

and I think that now we are in the practical situation of the law being

:28:56.:29:02.

as it is, I think that without intemperance language that

:29:03.:29:06.

government and Damian Green and his department will look at these

:29:07.:29:11.

things. As I say, all parties and groups in the Lords, the front bench

:29:12.:29:14.

from Labour, from the Liberal Democrats and the bishops, have all

:29:15.:29:18.

come in to support. There is another question this morning at 11 o'clock

:29:19.:29:21.

in the House of Lords being put down. With the right pressure,

:29:22.:29:27.

concentrating on this issue, because there are lots of issues today, but

:29:28.:29:32.

if we concentrate on this issue, I think that we have a chance of

:29:33.:29:39.

having somebody like Damien, who is empathetic, sympathetic and I think

:29:40.:29:44.

we'll look at it carefully. OK, thank you very much. We will see and

:29:45.:29:47.

we will continue to report on this. Thank you, Lord Pollock, Ben,

:29:48.:29:56.

Georgia, ten one and Sam Connor you are a star, thank you for coming on

:29:57.:29:57.

our programme. Still to come - how do

:29:58.:30:04.

you recover from failure? Lutalo Mohammed - who missed on gold

:30:05.:30:08.

by one second in the Rio Oympics - And the increasing criticism

:30:09.:30:12.

of online pharmacies. How lax standards could be

:30:13.:30:18.

compromising patient safety. The Supreme Court will rule today

:30:19.:30:31.

on whether parents can take their children

:30:32.:30:36.

on holiday in term time, It's considering the case

:30:37.:30:38.

of Jon Platt, who was given a fine of ?120 when he took his daughter

:30:39.:30:42.

away for a week on an unauthorised term-time holiday to Floriday

:30:43.:30:45.

in 2015. The White House has issued a warning

:30:46.:30:49.

to Russia over its support of the Syrian regime,

:30:50.:30:52.

following chemical attacks which killed at least 72

:30:53.:30:54.

people earlier this week. Donald Trump condemned the attacks

:30:55.:30:56.

as "an affront to humanity" - it comes ahead of his meeting

:30:57.:31:00.

with Chinese president Xi Jinping European Council president Donald

:31:01.:31:16.

Tusk will meet Theresa May in Downing Street later today. He is

:31:17.:31:19.

expected to be discussing the way ahead on Brexit, one week after he

:31:20.:31:24.

set out draft guidelines for negotiations.

:31:25.:31:25.

Labour says if it wins the next election, it'll provide every

:31:26.:31:27.

primary school pupil in England with a free school meal, by charging

:31:28.:31:30.

Jeremy Corbyn will say this morning that a Labour government

:31:31.:31:34.

would invest in schools to ensure no child is held back because

:31:35.:31:37.

But the move has been criticised by the Independent Schools Council,

:31:38.:31:42.

which claims the sums do not add up.

:31:43.:31:47.

The Care Quality Commission is to release critical

:31:48.:31:50.

reports into four online pharmacies in England.

:31:51.:31:52.

Concerns were raised by the CQC about all four pharmacies.

:31:53.:31:56.

One pharmacy was found to employ a clinician who wasn't registered

:31:57.:31:59.

Another pharmacy has been suspended from registered practice.

:32:00.:32:08.

A mother who went missing with her two young sons has been

:32:09.:32:11.

Samantha Baldwin was last seen with six-year-old Dylan

:32:12.:32:14.

and nine-year-old Louis in Nottingham on the

:32:15.:32:16.

Nottinghamshire Police said all three have been found

:32:17.:32:20.

That is a summary of the latest news. More at ten o'clock. Thanking

:32:21.:32:34.

you. A couple of comments on the last discussion. Emma Tweets that it

:32:35.:32:37.

is a disgrace taking money from a bereaved family. Losing a farm --

:32:38.:32:43.

parent is bad enough. Kirsty says, I hope your item will include a

:32:44.:32:49.

discussion on the fact and unmarried person receives no such benefit. My

:32:50.:32:54.

partner died in 2011 and I have not received a penny from the state,

:32:55.:32:59.

despite the fact we were considered a couple by the state when it suited

:33:00.:33:05.

them for tax credits. And my partner paid National Insurance on to. It is

:33:06.:33:10.

a disgrace. John has less sympathy. What differences there between a

:33:11.:33:15.

single-parent family and a bereaved family? Benefits can't be based on

:33:16.:33:18.

emotions but fairness. Now the sport.

:33:19.:33:23.

Good morning. A busy night in the Premier League.

:33:24.:33:26.

Chelsea manager Antonio Conte says his side need 6 wins

:33:27.:33:28.

from their last 8 games to win the Premier League.

:33:29.:33:31.

Chelsea remain seven points clear at the top of the table, after a 2-1

:33:32.:33:34.

win against Manchester City - Edin Hazard with both goals.

:33:35.:33:36.

Nearest rivals Spurs secured a late win against Swansea.

:33:37.:33:41.

At the bottom of the table, a huge win for Hull,

:33:42.:33:44.

who've now climbed out of the relegation zone

:33:45.:33:46.

They came from behind to beat relegation rivals

:33:47.:33:49.

The body which represents referees have apologised after Keith Stroud's

:33:50.:33:57.

error last night where he failed to instruct Newcastle to retake

:33:58.:34:00.

a penalty against Burton after players from both sides

:34:01.:34:03.

Stroud wrongly awarded Burton a free-kick instead.

:34:04.:34:11.

Dustin Johnson will decide later today if he's fit enough

:34:12.:34:13.

The world number one fell down the stairs of his rented home

:34:14.:34:17.

That is all these board for now. -- the sport.

:34:18.:34:28.

We'll be live at the Supreme Court shortly as they rule

:34:29.:34:32.

on whether parents can take their children on holiday

:34:33.:34:34.

This is just going to affect parents in England. It is a big deal. We

:34:35.:34:44.

will bring you that ruling when it comes in.

:34:45.:34:45.

Every single day, month after month, year after year,

:34:46.:34:49.

You are one second away from winning the gold medal.

:34:50.:34:53.

It happened to Tae Kwon Do athlete Lutaylo Muhammad last summer in Rio.

:34:54.:35:00.

Beaten in the very last second of his fight with his opponent

:35:01.:35:03.

from the Ivory Coast, he was inconsolable

:35:04.:35:05.

He broke down on TV and apologised to the nation.

:35:06.:35:12.

So how do you cope with failure, bounce back from defeat?

:35:13.:35:15.

Lutalo wanted to make a film exclusively with us as he comes

:35:16.:35:18.

to terms with life after Rio and speak to other people who've had

:35:19.:35:21.

to pick themselves up after being knocked back in life.

:35:22.:35:26.

I've been to two Olympic Games and I've won two medals

:35:27.:35:30.

for Team GB in taekwondo, A bronze and a silver,

:35:31.:35:32.

Something I've been working my entire life for.

:35:33.:35:41.

I came within a second of completing my dream...

:35:42.:35:44.

Lutalo Muhammad closes down, blocks and there is a head

:35:45.:35:52.

I'm so sorry for the people who stayed up late to

:35:53.:35:59.

How does anyone come back from devastating failure?

:36:00.:36:07.

I felt like a failure because the one job that you're

:36:08.:36:10.

meant to do is keep your child safe and protect them for

:36:11.:36:13.

I felt like a success and within literally six months,

:36:14.:36:17.

I had gone from that to putting the company into liquidation.

:36:18.:36:21.

I had a failure, but, you know, you have to move on.

:36:22.:36:32.

It has been more than six months since the games in Rio.

:36:33.:36:35.

I am back in training at GB taekwondo's base in Manchester,

:36:36.:36:40.

but looking back at the Olympic final still hurts.

:36:41.:36:46.

My friend and team-mate, Mahama Cho, was with me in the hours

:36:47.:36:52.

I remember the dying seconds because I thought

:36:53.:36:58.

there is no possible way you're going to lose this fight.

:36:59.:37:00.

He has got the gold that he has been looking for.

:37:01.:37:07.

And when it was taken away, really and truly, I could not sleep

:37:08.:37:11.

until I could actually see you to speak to you.

:37:12.:37:14.

I was literally waiting for you to get home and when you got

:37:15.:37:19.

home, I just knocked on the door to see how you was and it was sad.

:37:20.:37:25.

It felt like a stab in the heart, a little bit, because, obviously,

:37:26.:37:28.

the training you went through, the trials and tribulations to get

:37:29.:37:31.

there, the one phrase you used a lot was...

:37:32.:37:35.

Your dad told you you were actually a prime age

:37:36.:37:39.

For it to be taken away in the dying second was heartbreaking.

:37:40.:37:52.

After the Olympics, I didn't notify wanted to carry on in the sport,

:37:53.:37:55.

so I came to the sports psychologist Dr Amanda Owens.

:37:56.:38:04.

It is hard to put into words how disappointed I am,

:38:05.:38:11.

I am proud I contributed to team GB's record-breaking tally but it

:38:12.:38:15.

should have been a gold medal. Watching that now, does

:38:16.:38:20.

all the raw emotion come back? Can't watch that without feeling

:38:21.:38:22.

those same emotions. It's tough to watch because it

:38:23.:38:32.

takes me back there, that feeling of devastation,

:38:33.:38:39.

that feeling of, I've come so close to accomplishing what was my life

:38:40.:38:43.

goal and to have it snatched away, literally at the last

:38:44.:38:49.

second, it is tough. How long did it take you to deal

:38:50.:38:54.

with and accept that you came this What have you learned

:38:55.:38:58.

from this experience? It taught me, I think,

:38:59.:39:07.

a lot about myself. The next day waking up having to do

:39:08.:39:13.

the media, the interviews. It was therapeutic in a way

:39:14.:39:23.

because I was getting to talk But admittedly, the good times

:39:24.:39:26.

really came when I got off the plane You come out of the

:39:27.:39:35.

whole Olympic bubble. You have no idea what

:39:36.:39:42.

is going on back home. To receive the reception I received

:39:43.:39:45.

from the British public I want them to cry

:39:46.:39:47.

tears of joy next time. Someone whose failures

:39:48.:39:58.

than successes have been lived out in the public eye for decades

:39:59.:40:01.

is businessman Lord Sugar. Who better to come to for

:40:02.:40:06.

advice on moving on? There was a time in the computer

:40:07.:40:11.

industry where we were king of the computer market in Europe

:40:12.:40:16.

and we made a bad range of products that had technical faults on them

:40:17.:40:21.

and we struggle to the understand In that period of time,

:40:22.:40:25.

we dropped from the darlings of the computer industry down

:40:26.:40:31.

to virtually zero. That was a very, very tough time,

:40:32.:40:34.

very, very tough time. From making profits of ?160 million

:40:35.:40:41.

a year to losses of 70 million. My personal experience, I lost

:40:42.:40:46.

at the Olympics in the last second. One of the hardest things

:40:47.:40:55.

to deal with was knowing In your experience, how

:40:56.:40:58.

do you deal with that? Failure or something that went

:40:59.:41:02.

wrong, it is not a good thing. It was not a nice time,

:41:03.:41:10.

but you just have to deal with it. You can't deal with it by arguing

:41:11.:41:16.

against it or making excuses I had a failure and people talked

:41:17.:41:22.

about my failure and all that stuff. But, you know, you have to move

:41:23.:41:36.

on until you get your next product in the marketplace,

:41:37.:41:39.

like our satellite dishes, and then suddenly, everything

:41:40.:41:43.

else was forgotten. Do you think it helps

:41:44.:41:45.

you in any way? It helped in the sense that

:41:46.:41:51.

you take no notice of it and it is like the old thing,

:41:52.:41:54.

it is like yesterday's Our cousins in America have got

:41:55.:41:57.

a new president who does not seem to have learnt that lesson

:41:58.:42:03.

which I am absolutely He seems to react to every bit

:42:04.:42:05.

of criticism that is thrown at him whereas he should not,

:42:06.:42:12.

really, he should just let it So, all I have to do

:42:13.:42:15.

is win that gold medal But for some people,

:42:16.:42:22.

feeling like a failure can have more damaging consequences

:42:23.:42:31.

than Olympic silver medal. This is the furniture

:42:32.:42:34.

that I used to import. Naomi Gilmore ran a garden furniture

:42:35.:42:38.

company worth almost ?1 million. Until suddenly, things

:42:39.:42:42.

started going wrong. I think my lowest point

:42:43.:42:45.

came about six months I remember going to see my bank

:42:46.:42:47.

manager, turned over nearly ?1 million in business,

:42:48.:42:54.

I really thought I had made it. I had a team of staff,

:42:55.:42:57.

premises everything seemed to be I remember sitting there,

:42:58.:43:00.

just couldn't believe that I had made it all and I had

:43:01.:43:05.

created this growth. Within a six-month period,

:43:06.:43:10.

to go from that to literally bailiffs knocking on my door one

:43:11.:43:15.

night to come and take my car away. My kids were just about to go to bed

:43:16.:43:18.

and they were just screaming and devastated and I sat

:43:19.:43:22.

on the kitchen floor and to be honest just felt like my soul

:43:23.:43:25.

had been ripped out. It was just kind of like,

:43:26.:43:28.

I can't get my kids to school, I've let them down, and I just felt

:43:29.:43:31.

like a huge failure. Did you feel like a failure

:43:32.:43:34.

because you felt like you had let Then I think I went into people

:43:35.:43:37.

judging the mode and felt quite scared wanted to hide away and just

:43:38.:43:53.

pretend it was not all happening. Paloma Thompson has two

:43:54.:44:12.

healthy happy boys. But Winter was born premature

:44:13.:44:17.

and has some learning difficulties. For a long time, Paloma felt

:44:18.:44:24.

like this was her fault. I felt like a failure

:44:25.:44:33.

because I think when you are pregnant one job that you meant

:44:34.:44:36.

to do is keep your child safe and protect them for the full nine

:44:37.:44:39.

months so that they are born on time and there wasn't any medical reason

:44:40.:44:43.

or issue with him or myself Just my body let him down

:44:44.:44:46.

and I failed to do my When you see that tiny body,

:44:47.:44:51.

no bigger than your hand, He had a cannula in his leg

:44:52.:44:58.

for antibiotics, he had a cannula drip in his umbilical

:44:59.:45:07.

cord for caffeine. All wires to monitor blood pressure,

:45:08.:45:10.

pulse, oxygen levels, and then the UV lamp

:45:11.:45:17.

for the jaundice. He is inside the incubator

:45:18.:45:20.

and you cannot touch him, you cannot cuddle him,

:45:21.:45:23.

say everything is going to be OK. It is just a really awful feeling

:45:24.:45:28.

that I've let my child down and now he has had to start life

:45:29.:45:32.

in a really difficult place. Definitely for the first year

:45:33.:45:36.

of his life and I found it really difficult to talk to people about it

:45:37.:45:45.

as well because there was always this sense of you just need to try

:45:46.:45:48.

and be happy and concentrate It is not really about him being OK

:45:49.:45:52.

and happy, it is more about I feel So how did Naomi and Paloma overcome

:45:53.:45:58.

feeling like failures? Naomi now runs an online

:45:59.:46:09.

marketing company. In those days, I think

:46:10.:46:12.

it was all about turnover and money and premises

:46:13.:46:15.

and growing the business. I think now very much

:46:16.:46:19.

I have a successful business but I have a lot of balance

:46:20.:46:22.

in my life. I am a single mum, I have two girls,

:46:23.:46:24.

I adore my girls and I am able to work and have success at work

:46:25.:46:28.

but I am also a success I really feel that I do have

:46:29.:46:31.

that balance in my life. I absolutely don't feel

:46:32.:46:37.

like a failure now. I certainly did feel

:46:38.:46:41.

like a failure at the time but now Around that time, I felt judged

:46:42.:46:44.

and now I don't feel judged. It is really about me

:46:45.:46:48.

focusing on my own stuff, the stuff I love, in terms of me

:46:49.:46:51.

achieving my own success, Paloma was diagnosed with a form

:46:52.:46:54.

of postnatal depression and has She has also joined a group of mums

:46:55.:47:04.

with similar feelings. What is your relationship

:47:05.:47:10.

like with your children now? It is strange now when I look

:47:11.:47:12.

at Winter and to think that at one point I just felt like I had no

:47:13.:47:21.

connection with him because I didn't feel like I was worthy

:47:22.:47:24.

of being his mum because I felt I have been lucky to reach

:47:25.:47:27.

the top of my sport, but the higher you get,

:47:28.:47:36.

the further the fall. It took me a while to appreciate

:47:37.:47:44.

silver but now I can look back Bring on the 2020 Games in Tokyo,

:47:45.:47:47.

where my next medal will be gold. And Lutalo will be here with me

:47:48.:48:06.

in the studio just after 10.30. Really, really interested to you to

:48:07.:48:17.

give me your own stories of how you bounced back from a disappointment

:48:18.:48:20.

or a failure, whatever it may be, and we will feed that into the

:48:21.:48:27.

conversation with Lutalo Muhammad after ten past ten. Inside the

:48:28.:48:30.

Supreme Court right now, we have judges who are delivering their

:48:31.:48:35.

ruling in the case of dared John Platt, who is arguing it is not

:48:36.:48:39.

illegal if he takes his daughter out of school in term time. This is a

:48:40.:48:44.

really significant case, it will affect parents in England, they are

:48:45.:48:47.

going for the judgment now which means any second now we will find

:48:48.:48:52.

out if dad John Platt has won or lost. As soon as we know for sure,

:48:53.:48:56.

because they build up to it, these judges, they know how to create a

:48:57.:49:00.

sense of drama. It means we may interrupt our next, session, which

:49:01.:49:01.

is about online pharmacies. A number of online pharmacies

:49:02.:49:05.

in England have been criticised for lax standards that

:49:06.:49:07.

could compromise patient safety. The official health watchdog,

:49:08.:49:09.

the Care Quality Commission, has called for improvements at four

:49:10.:49:11.

providers, after finding a number of shortcomings, including

:49:12.:49:14.

prescriptions approved without enough checks

:49:15.:49:15.

into patient history, a lack of communication

:49:16.:49:16.

with the patient's GP, and large volumes of asthma

:49:17.:49:18.

inhalers dispensed at once. Faye Kirkland is a working GP

:49:19.:49:20.

and one of our health reporters. So, how do the online 's sites offer

:49:21.:49:31.

it? Mostly patients go in and fill in a simple online form, you ask

:49:32.:49:35.

basic questions like your date of birth, how much you weigh, you'll

:49:36.:49:37.

blood pressure, and that gets reviewed by a doctor. And then they

:49:38.:49:42.

decide whether to prescribe, based on that information. There are also

:49:43.:49:46.

sites that offer Skype and mobile apps as well. How are they

:49:47.:49:51.

regulated? By the Care Quality Commission in England, and last

:49:52.:49:54.

month they produced clear outlines of what they should expect when they

:49:55.:49:59.

are inspected by them. But in the different parts of the UK there are

:50:00.:50:03.

different regulators. So they are inspected in a slightly different

:50:04.:50:08.

way. Any concerns about that? The Royal pharmaceutical Society is

:50:09.:50:11.

rarely concerned about that, because England is the only place where

:50:12.:50:16.

there are clear standards for online providers. Theoretically providers

:50:17.:50:20.

could move their headquarters to the other parts of the UK and not be

:50:21.:50:25.

inspected so robustly. What should be but watch out for if they are

:50:26.:50:30.

buying online? It is difficult. The CQC sale or where the site is

:50:31.:50:38.

registered, do they have a CQC logo? They say if you're going to buy

:50:39.:50:41.

online, do it with caution, make sure you know the risks and benefits

:50:42.:50:45.

of anything that you buy. Thank you very much.

:50:46.:50:47.

Let's talk now to Professor Steve Field, the Chief Inspector

:50:48.:50:50.

of General Practice at the Care Quality Commission.

:50:51.:50:52.

Helen Webbereley is a GP who works for two of the sites

:50:53.:50:54.

Stuart Gale is the Managing Director of Frosts Pharmacy Ltd,

:50:55.:50:58.

which operates the Oxford Online Pharmacy, another company

:50:59.:51:00.

Welcome all of you. We may interrupt for some breaking news from the

:51:01.:51:10.

Supreme Court, so I apologise in advance in case we do. Professor

:51:11.:51:14.

Field, thank you for talking to us, it is the first time the CQC, your

:51:15.:51:19.

organisation, has inspected these websites. Why do it now, what has

:51:20.:51:26.

pumped of this? I am a GPS ball is being chief inspector of general

:51:27.:51:29.

practice, this is part of our ongoing programme in of regulating

:51:30.:51:35.

any -- what has prompted this. Regulating any provider, whether

:51:36.:51:38.

health or social care. We have just completed our programme of all

:51:39.:51:41.

general practices in England, and we are looking at online providers.

:51:42.:51:49.

What worries you most? We found that so far we have issued six reports.

:51:50.:51:57.

At times, these providers are not prescribing appropriately. There are

:51:58.:51:59.

not the basic checks to make sure the patient they providing for is

:52:00.:52:04.

that patient. They are not taking a comp rancid medical history,

:52:05.:52:09.

including what other this patients are on. I as a GP chief inspector

:52:10.:52:14.

would expect that the standards are the same as if you went into a

:52:15.:52:19.

general practice anywhere inning on. The point that Faye raised, if

:52:20.:52:24.

somebody, or if you suspend a website operating out of England,

:52:25.:52:28.

what is to stop the website popping up in Scotland, Wales, except? Faye

:52:29.:52:34.

has been great at highlighting these issues and she is absolute right. I

:52:35.:52:39.

am responsible, and CQC, the regulator, is responsible for sites

:52:40.:52:45.

in England for patients in England. We are aware of sites that are

:52:46.:52:48.

operating outside England, and patients can access prescriptions

:52:49.:52:53.

that way as well. So we are meeting with the other regulators within the

:52:54.:52:58.

UK, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and we are communicating

:52:59.:53:02.

with others in Europe and elsewhere. So we are trying to pass information

:53:03.:53:06.

on. Helen Weatherly, thank you for coming on, your roles of the online

:53:07.:53:12.

surgery and the online Oxford pharmacy. Professor Philip is not

:53:13.:53:15.

report says that when patients were requested prescriptions of the

:53:16.:53:19.

online surgery it took as little as 17 seconds for prescriptions to be

:53:20.:53:22.

approved. That can't be right, can it? We need to look at this very

:53:23.:53:26.

clear. We reviewed all of the patient still with on the online

:53:27.:53:30.

surgery. The 17 second one that seems to have hit the highlight is a

:53:31.:53:34.

repeat prescription, so actually, I am an NHS discussion as well, -- NHS

:53:35.:53:46.

GP as well, it is the same there. So no checks are needed for a repeat

:53:47.:53:50.

perception? Online I would argue it is safer, because I have a computer

:53:51.:53:53.

screen that shows me a full medical history, all of the medication that

:53:54.:53:57.

person is taking and it is completely up-to-date because they

:53:58.:54:00.

have just given me that information. Whereas in a GP surgery they are six

:54:01.:54:04.

months old. You are saying you can do a repeat description in 17

:54:05.:54:09.

seconds having checked the patient was like medical history? Yes. I

:54:10.:54:14.

would never prescribe anything that was not safe, but there are

:54:15.:54:18.

instances where you can check that a repeat medication is safe for

:54:19.:54:23.

somebody in the 17 seconds that they are bandying about the moment. It is

:54:24.:54:27.

not bandying about, it happens, and you say it is fine. On the case that

:54:28.:54:34.

I examined, that retreat Di repeat prescription was fine. And actually,

:54:35.:54:38.

Victoria, if you look of the patient that used the services, we have a

:54:39.:54:43.

delighted cohort of patients. There has never been an instance of any

:54:44.:54:47.

harm coming to patients. Still, you have been criticised by this CQC,

:54:48.:54:54.

two of the site you work for. Stuart Gale, the CQC found that frost

:54:55.:54:57.

pharmacy Ltd was prescribing large quantities of inhalers for asthma

:54:58.:55:00.

without checking if the patient was my condition was either out of

:55:01.:55:03.

control or if a diagnosis has been confirmed. The CQC has issued you

:55:04.:55:09.

with warning notices about that, is that fair enough? Absolutely, yes.

:55:10.:55:15.

Why was it happening? We were talking about probably five to ten

:55:16.:55:19.

patients that have had more inhalers than would be normally appropriate

:55:20.:55:24.

in an NHS setting. So we have spoken to these patients, and actually they

:55:25.:55:31.

want convenience. 45% of them... You didn't know if some of them had

:55:32.:55:36.

asthma. Yes, we did, because that was part of the process, we would

:55:37.:55:44.

know that they had asthma, 78% of them had had an annual asthma review

:55:45.:55:48.

with their own GP, but 45% of them could not get into their GP. See why

:55:49.:55:53.

saying it is all right, so I am wondering why the CQC issued you

:55:54.:55:57.

with warning notices if everything is fine? We are a stream they have

:55:58.:56:01.

you with the CQC doing this because ultimately safety is another one

:56:02.:56:05.

priorities and we have no argument with the CQC. We think the whole

:56:06.:56:09.

process was excellent, our inspectors were very thorough. You

:56:10.:56:13.

are glad to be issued with warning notices. Threw to be inspected and

:56:14.:56:18.

given the chance to improve. I am going to pause there, as inspected,

:56:19.:56:21.

we have the roaring from the Supreme Court but I am very grateful for

:56:22.:56:26.

your time. -- the ruling. John Platt, the dad who took this case to

:56:27.:56:29.

court, it affects parents in England. He argued, and it has gone

:56:30.:56:35.

to the highest court in the land, he argued that parents were not

:56:36.:56:39.

breaking the law when they took their children out of school during

:56:40.:56:43.

term time. John Platt has lost his case, that is the breaking news in

:56:44.:56:48.

the last minute. John Platt has lost his case in the Supreme Court, it

:56:49.:56:52.

means local authorities can continue to find parents who take their

:56:53.:56:55.

children out of school. Let's go live -- can continue to fined

:56:56.:57:02.

parents. They will be breaking the law, parents who do this?

:57:03.:57:06.

Absolutely. This is a ruling that will upset a lot of parents. It will

:57:07.:57:10.

delight schools and local authorities, because it is

:57:11.:57:14.

absolutely crystal clear. This case was all about what amounts to

:57:15.:57:19.

regular attendance at a school, and in the court below, John Platt had

:57:20.:57:24.

argued successfully that because his daughter generally had a very good

:57:25.:57:30.

attendance record, over 90%, he argued that she was regularly

:57:31.:57:33.

attending school. Even if he was to take her out of school for a whole

:57:34.:57:39.

week of holiday. Lady Hale who gave the judgment of the court

:57:40.:57:42.

effectively drove a coach and horses through that. What she said is that

:57:43.:57:46.

there are two protect the re-interpretations of what regular

:57:47.:57:51.

attendance means, it either means sufficiently frequently on the one

:57:52.:57:56.

hand, which is how John Platt had argued it in the courts below and

:57:57.:57:59.

how it had been interpreted in the courts below, or it means in

:58:00.:58:03.

accordance with the school's attendance policy, and she came down

:58:04.:58:07.

very firmly in favour of interpreting it in that way, that

:58:08.:58:12.

regular attendance means in accordance with the school's

:58:13.:58:15.

attendance policy, and most schools of course will have a 100%

:58:16.:58:23.

attendance policy. She said that unauthorised absences have a

:58:24.:58:26.

disruptive effect not only on the education of the individual child

:58:27.:58:29.

but also on the work of other pupils and their teachers. If one pupil can

:58:30.:58:34.

be taken out whenever it suits the parents, then so can others. She

:58:35.:58:39.

said different pupils may be taken out at different times, multiplying

:58:40.:58:42.

the disruptive effect. Any education system expects people to come and

:58:43.:58:47.

keep to the rules. Not to do so is unfair to those obedient parents who

:58:48.:58:50.

do keep to the rules, whatever the cost or inconvenience to themselves.

:58:51.:58:56.

So this is a very, firm very ruling from the Supreme Court that you must

:58:57.:59:00.

obey the attendance rules of the school that your child goes to, and

:59:01.:59:03.

if they say you cannot take your child out for a week's holiday, two

:59:04.:59:07.

weeks holiday, then you can't do that without risking having a fine,

:59:08.:59:12.

and if you don't pay that Tamme one, being prosecuted. -- that fine,

:59:13.:59:20.

being prosecuted. John Platt's case will now go back to the Magistrates'

:59:21.:59:24.

Court and he will have two face this charge of failing to secure the

:59:25.:59:27.

regular attendance of his daughter at school. It is a unanimous

:59:28.:59:34.

judgment of all five justices, you must obey the schools on attendance.

:59:35.:59:38.

We will be back with you after the news and sport to get reaction,

:59:39.:59:41.

because you may be able to speak to John Platt, as he emerges from the

:59:42.:59:44.

Supreme Court, because he was therefore that ruling. Your reaction

:59:45.:59:50.

welcome. If you are a parent of children, whether you have taken

:59:51.:59:53.

them out of school in term time for a holiday or not, what is your

:59:54.:59:57.

reaction to this very significant ruling? Let me know. It is ten

:59:58.:59:59.

o'clock, iambic Tory adoption. Within the past few minutes,

:00:00.:00:05.

the Supreme Court has ruled that Jon Platt,

:00:06.:00:07.

the father who took his daughter out of school to go on holiday,

:00:08.:00:10.

should NOT have done so. Unauthorised absences have a

:00:11.:00:21.

disruptive effect, not only on the education of the individual child,

:00:22.:00:24.

but also on the work of other pupils and their teachers.

:00:25.:00:27.

In his first British TV interview, we'll be speaking to Dallas,

:00:28.:00:30.

the son of Kurt Cochran - who was killed in the Westminster

:00:31.:00:33.

You can see the full interview later - as he's told us he doesn't

:00:34.:00:39.

want to think about the terrorist who carried out the attack.

:00:40.:00:42.

I have seen little pictures here and there but I have chosen to avoid

:00:43.:00:50.

looking into whatever his story was. It's not going to help me any

:00:51.:00:53.

knowing who it was or why he did it. Also - we'll be speaking

:00:54.:00:55.

to Lutalo Mohammad - who missed out on gold by one second

:00:56.:00:57.

at the Rio Olympics. He's been finding out about turning

:00:58.:01:00.

failure into success. I won two Medels 13 J.B. In tae kwon

:01:01.:01:14.

do. -- Team GB. They are not the ones I wanted.

:01:15.:01:19.

In the last few minutes, the father who refused to pay a fine after

:01:20.:01:30.

taking his daughter out of school for a non-authorised holiday, has

:01:31.:01:35.

lost his case at the Supreme Court. Jon Platt was fined when he took his

:01:36.:01:39.

daughter away for a week in Florida during term time. He refused to pay

:01:40.:01:43.

because he said his daughter's attendance record was very good. The

:01:44.:01:51.

Supreme Court has overturned a High Court judgment, saying it was

:01:52.:01:55.

disruptive to children's education to take them out of school.

:01:56.:01:59.

Unauthorised absences have a disruptive effect. Not only on the

:02:00.:02:04.

education of the individual child, but also on the work of other pupils

:02:05.:02:10.

and of their teachers. If one pupil can be taken out whenever it suits

:02:11.:02:14.

the parent, then so can others. Different pupils might be taken out

:02:15.:02:20.

at different times, multiplying the disruptive effect. Any educational

:02:21.:02:24.

system expects people to keep the rules. Not to do so is unfair to

:02:25.:02:29.

those obedient parents who do keep the rules, whatever the cost or

:02:30.:02:34.

inconvenience to themselves. We will be getting more on that

:02:35.:02:39.

ruling shortly. We are expecting to hear the reaction of Jon Platt and

:02:40.:02:41.

more detail from Clive Coleman. The European Council President,

:02:42.:02:45.

Donald Tusk, will meet Theresa May They are expected to discuss the

:02:46.:02:56.

UK's exit from the European Union a week after Mr Tusk said the

:02:57.:02:57.

guidelines for negotiations. The White House has issued a warning

:02:58.:02:59.

to Russia over its support of the Syrian regime,

:03:00.:03:02.

following the deaths of at least 72 people in what's believed

:03:03.:03:04.

to be a chemical attack. President Trump condemned the deaths

:03:05.:03:06.

as "an affront to humanity". His comments come ahead

:03:07.:03:09.

of his meeting with Chinese president Xi Jinping in Florida

:03:10.:03:11.

today. A mother who went missing

:03:12.:03:16.

with her two young sons has been Samantha Baldwin was last seen

:03:17.:03:19.

with six-year-old Dylan and nine-year-old Louis

:03:20.:03:21.

in Nottingham on the Nottinghamshire Police say

:03:22.:03:23.

all three have been found, Labour says if it wins the next

:03:24.:03:27.

election, it'll provide every primary school pupil in England

:03:28.:03:35.

with a free school meal, by charging Jeremy Corbyn will say this morning

:03:36.:03:38.

that a Labour government would invest in schools to ensure no

:03:39.:03:41.

child is held back because But the move has been criticised

:03:42.:03:44.

by the Independent Schools Council, which claims the sums

:03:45.:03:51.

do not add up. Pepsi has pulled its controversial

:03:52.:03:58.

new advert starring Kendall Jenner, after criticism that it was trying

:03:59.:04:00.

to commercialise protest movements The company received thousands

:04:01.:04:02.

of complaints about the tone and the content of the advert,

:04:03.:04:06.

in which Jenner joins a demonstration and gives

:04:07.:04:08.

a can of the soft drink Pepsi says it was trying to project

:04:09.:04:10.

a "global message of unity, peace and understanding",

:04:11.:04:14.

and apologised for, in its words, More at 10:30am. Good morning. Let's

:04:15.:04:34.

go straight back to the Supreme Court, and Clive Coleman. Tell us

:04:35.:04:41.

about the significant ruling? It is really significant because we know

:04:42.:04:44.

that parents hate the fact that if they take their children on holiday

:04:45.:04:48.

during the school holidays, they often have to pay for Morford doing

:04:49.:04:53.

it because prices are higher. And so many parents like to take their

:04:54.:04:58.

children away for a week or two weeks during the school year during

:04:59.:05:01.

term time, to pay the reduced prices. This case has made that

:05:02.:05:07.

very, very difficult. What this case says this morning is basically you

:05:08.:05:12.

must obey the school rules, because it is an offence, a criminal

:05:13.:05:16.

offence, for a parent to fail to secure the regular attendance of

:05:17.:05:21.

their child at school. That is what this case was all about. Jon Platt

:05:22.:05:24.

took his daughter out of school for a week. And in the courts below he

:05:25.:05:31.

could argue that even though he had done that, she was still attending

:05:32.:05:35.

school regularly. If you look at her attendance record over the course of

:05:36.:05:39.

a lengthy period, she had a very good attendance record, even with

:05:40.:05:43.

the holiday time taken out. It was more than 90%. Therefore, he had not

:05:44.:05:46.

failed to secure a regular attendance at school. Lady Hale look

:05:47.:05:51.

that that this morning and she effectively rubbished that the fans.

:05:52.:05:55.

She said there were two interpretations of what regular

:05:56.:05:57.

attendance could mean. It could either mean sufficiently frequently,

:05:58.:06:03.

or it could mean in accordance with the school rules. She said it simply

:06:04.:06:07.

couldn't mean sufficiently frequently because that would give

:06:08.:06:10.

parents too much freedom to take their child out of school. If one

:06:11.:06:14.

child was taken out at one time and another at another, it causes mayhem

:06:15.:06:19.

within the school system. So what regular attendance must mean is that

:06:20.:06:23.

it is in accordance with the school rules. Most schools will have a 100%

:06:24.:06:28.

attendance policy. The effect of that is that parents will have to

:06:29.:06:31.

bite the bullet. They will have to pay for those more expensive

:06:32.:06:35.

holidays during the school holiday period. And if they don't and take

:06:36.:06:39.

their children out of school during term time, they will have to face

:06:40.:06:44.

the consequences, which are fines. If they fail to pay the fines, they

:06:45.:06:50.

will be prosecuted. In addition to that, John Platt will have his case

:06:51.:06:54.

sent back to the magistrates court, where he will be found guilty of the

:06:55.:07:00.

offence unless he can come within one of three very limited statutory

:07:01.:07:04.

exceptions. And they really are simply whether the child was sick,

:07:05.:07:09.

whether there is a religious reason for the absence, or whether the

:07:10.:07:14.

child is sufficiently far from the school.

:07:15.:07:20.

I think Jon Platt is coming out. They have all been outstanding

:07:21.:07:23.

advocates and I cannot thank them enough for their work in this case

:07:24.:07:27.

over the last two years. Karen Wilkinson, who is here today, who

:07:28.:07:32.

campaigned on this issue for years, long before I got a penalty notice.

:07:33.:07:36.

Thank you for your support and hard work. Thank you for the people that

:07:37.:07:42.

is the people who sent messages of support and to the schoolteacher who

:07:43.:07:50.

has helped me help parents in the same situation. Thank you to my

:07:51.:07:54.

family who have had to put up with two years of this because I was too

:07:55.:07:59.

stubborn to pay a penalty notice. My wife Sally has had to but with this

:08:00.:08:04.

lunacy. As you all just heard, he Supreme Court has just reversed

:08:05.:08:08.

decades of judicial precedent. They didn't just say the High Court judge

:08:09.:08:13.

who heard my case, Lord Jones, misinterpreted the law. They have

:08:14.:08:17.

concluded that the earlier High Court decision from 2006, and one

:08:18.:08:24.

from 1969, were also wrong in their interpretation of the law and they

:08:25.:08:28.

should no longer be followed. Be in no doubt, despite the judgment, I

:08:29.:08:33.

followed the law precisely, as laid down and interpreted by High Court

:08:34.:08:39.

judges in two different cases from 69 and 2006. They told me that to

:08:40.:08:43.

attend regularly was to attend very frequently. So I decided not to pay

:08:44.:08:48.

a ?60 penalty notice because my daughter had otherwise perfect

:08:49.:08:52.

attendance at school. The decision of those High Court judges in 1969

:08:53.:08:59.

and 2006 that decision. But here I stand outside the Supreme Court

:09:00.:09:02.

having just been told I was wrong to rely on the decision doubles High

:09:03.:09:07.

Court judges, to guide me on law. With this judgment, those precedents

:09:08.:09:10.

have been swept away and the consequences can only be described

:09:11.:09:16.

as shocking. To attend regularly no longer means to attend frequently.

:09:17.:09:20.

It now means to attend on all the days and all the times that the

:09:21.:09:26.

school requires it, every un-authorised absence, including

:09:27.:09:29.

being a minute late to school, is now a criminal offence. If you share

:09:30.:09:35.

custody of your child, as I do, with a former partner, and they are

:09:36.:09:41.

linked to school holiday you don't have them, you are liable under a

:09:42.:09:46.

criminal offence. If you decide to keep a child of school for a day

:09:47.:09:52.

because you are their parent, you can no longer do that because if the

:09:53.:09:56.

head teacher second guess is you and marks it as unauthorised, you have

:09:57.:09:59.

committed a criminal offence. The issue is no longer if ever it was,

:10:00.:10:05.

but term time holidays. It is about the state taking the rights of

:10:06.:10:08.

parents away when it comes to making decisions about their children. Many

:10:09.:10:12.

of you might have thought, given in 2015 when I took my family on this

:10:13.:10:19.

term time holiday, as I was at that time following the law as laid down

:10:20.:10:22.

by several High Court judges, that it would be grossly unfair to

:10:23.:10:26.

retrospectively criminalise me. That was very nearly not the case. What

:10:27.:10:31.

some of you in the press who have had the briefing this morning did

:10:32.:10:34.

not know, was that the first draft of this judgment was sent to the

:10:35.:10:40.

magistrates court with a direct instruction to conflict. There were

:10:41.:10:43.

not prepared to give me a trial. This case stopped at half-time

:10:44.:10:46.

because the magistrates said I had no case to answer. But the Supreme

:10:47.:10:50.

Court were prepared to send this back with a direction to convicted

:10:51.:10:53.

onto my barristers pointed out they could not do that. This case now has

:10:54.:10:59.

to go back to the Isle of Wight magistrates to start all over again.

:11:00.:11:03.

I can tell you, I have absolutely no intention of pleading guilty to this

:11:04.:11:07.

offence when it goes back to the magistrates court. Deterrence all

:11:08.:11:10.

over England I say this. The legal battle is now over. There is no

:11:11.:11:15.

right of appeal beyond this place. It will be a generation or more

:11:16.:11:20.

before this court revisits this decision, if ever it goes. You can

:11:21.:11:23.

no longer make a decision to take your child out of school, even for

:11:24.:11:27.

one morning, without the permission of the state. That does not mean

:11:28.:11:32.

this is the end of the matter. Petitions have been signed by

:11:33.:11:36.

hundreds of thousands of parents, Parliament has debated this issue

:11:37.:11:38.

multiple times and nothing has changed. So I would urge each and

:11:39.:11:43.

every parent and grandparents that finds the consequences of this

:11:44.:11:46.

judgment to be utterly shocking, as I do, to vote on the 4th of May in

:11:47.:11:51.

the local elections. They are not being held everywhere in England but

:11:52.:11:54.

they are being held in a lot of places. Vote to remove people like

:11:55.:12:02.

Colin Noble, the head of Suffolk County Council, the Conservative

:12:03.:12:05.

leader of Suffolk County Council. They have issued more penalty

:12:06.:12:09.

notices than any other local authority in the country. I think

:12:10.:12:13.

parents need to say what they think about that on the 4th of May. If

:12:14.:12:18.

enough parents bothered to vote on the 4th of May and remove people who

:12:19.:12:21.

have been doing this, something will happen. Something will change. The

:12:22.:12:26.

government will pass legislation to mitigate the effects of what is

:12:27.:12:29.

happening. Jon Platt there. He is clearly

:12:30.:12:33.

really cross about the ruling this morning. Reaction from you. Anita

:12:34.:12:37.

says public schools have more holiday than state schools and are

:12:38.:12:42.

not subject to the same regulations. Ian says it is disgusting that Jon

:12:43.:12:46.

Platt has lost his case. Schools on the care because absence affects

:12:47.:12:53.

their funding. Declan says, I would still rather pay a ?200 fine than an

:12:54.:13:00.

extra ?1000 on a holiday. And so it goes on. A few people taking a pop

:13:01.:13:09.

at teacher training days. Let me introduce you to Jon Platt's lawyer.

:13:10.:13:18.

Catherina Scott-Hart, who was fined for taking her

:13:19.:13:21.

children Amelie and Lewis out of school for four days.

:13:22.:13:23.

In Middlesborough, Dominique Holding was fined ?200 for taking her two

:13:24.:13:26.

children to see their relatives in Turkey during the school term.

:13:27.:13:29.

And Patsy Kane, who is a firm believe in school fines

:13:30.:13:31.

and is the executive headteacher at three second schools

:13:32.:13:33.

As Jon Platt's lawyer, we could hear the -- clearly hear his passion, his

:13:34.:13:38.

anger. He is going back to a magistrates court where he will

:13:39.:13:41.

plead not guilty. There will not be a trial in the Crown Court because

:13:42.:13:44.

it is not the kind of offence that the crown court hears. What is the

:13:45.:13:47.

point of him doing that? To be frank, I have not had a detailed

:13:48.:13:50.

discussion with him about his defence. I think Lady Hale has made

:13:51.:13:54.

it clear that the Army as open to him the statutory defences. I think

:13:55.:13:57.

one of the defences he might be arguing is to do with the distance

:13:58.:14:02.

of the child to the school. That is not something outspoken in detail

:14:03.:14:08.

about. What is your reaction to his defeat? I wasn't surprised by losing

:14:09.:14:11.

the case, judging by how it went in the Supreme Court. My reaction is I

:14:12.:14:17.

suppose it gives certainty, so people know where they stand. One of

:14:18.:14:22.

Lady Hale's big points was that the law as it currently stands, or stood

:14:23.:14:25.

before this, was that magistrates would have to decide what was

:14:26.:14:30.

regular and what was not. The Supreme Court were anxious to find

:14:31.:14:33.

certainty. But I suppose the flip side of that now is that she has

:14:34.:14:39.

said that regularly means in accordance with the rules prescribed

:14:40.:14:43.

by the school. So any breach in attendance all those rules will mean

:14:44.:14:48.

that the parent has potentially committed an offence.

:14:49.:14:52.

Dominic Holding, now we have had this ruling, you have been fined in

:14:53.:14:56.

the past are taking your children out. Would it stop you doing it

:14:57.:15:02.

again? I have not taken them out since I got fined in the first

:15:03.:15:07.

place. It would depend on the cost of a holiday, if I'm honest. Rather

:15:08.:15:22.

than breaking the law? Absolutely. Who is to tell me what I can and

:15:23.:15:27.

can't do with my children? So if the holiday was cheap enough in term

:15:28.:15:30.

time, you would rather break the law and pay the ?200 fine? Absolutely.

:15:31.:15:41.

Let me bring in Patsy Kane, would you said to Dominic Holden? I am

:15:42.:15:47.

absolutely delighted and pleased and feel supported that the state, in

:15:48.:15:51.

terms of the highest court in the land, has agreed that attendance at

:15:52.:15:55.

school is absolutely vital, and I'm sure the vast majority of parents

:15:56.:16:00.

respect the work of schools, primaries and high schools, across

:16:01.:16:04.

the country, and are also very pleased that their work is

:16:05.:16:08.

respected, and it is valued. What would you say to Dominique Holding,

:16:09.:16:13.

doesn't matter what this ruling is, what she was to look at is the cost

:16:14.:16:17.

of a holiday and if it is way cheaper in term time she will still

:16:18.:16:22.

take their children out of school? As educators we would talk and

:16:23.:16:25.

explain to parents by every single day in school matters. The

:16:26.:16:29.

curriculum has been extended and enriched, it is more challenging and

:16:30.:16:32.

every single day really does matter and a whole week out of school is

:16:33.:16:36.

several hours that you miss of your maths education, your English,

:16:37.:16:41.

science, primary schools have several hours of English and maths,

:16:42.:16:44.

they do that every single day, and you are missing whole lessons that

:16:45.:16:50.

that child will never get back. So this ruling protects the education

:16:51.:16:53.

of young children. Dominique, how would you respond to Patsy? The

:16:54.:16:58.

thing you are pointing out is the hours in a day that you school fees

:16:59.:17:02.

children, yet if I was to take my child out of school and home school

:17:03.:17:07.

my children, I am not required to school them for six, seven, eight or

:17:08.:17:12.

nine hours a day for five days over 40 weeks of the year, is it? So how

:17:13.:17:23.

can you justify a child sitting for six hours a day, schooling, compared

:17:24.:17:26.

to if I home-schooled, and scored for three hours a day? Dominique, it

:17:27.:17:33.

is not a debate about home-schooling versus schooling in a traditional

:17:34.:17:37.

setting, it is about taking your children out of school to go to

:17:38.:17:45.

Turkey. I understand that, but what the headmistress is saying is that

:17:46.:17:49.

if they miss a day in school, they have missed six hours of schooling,

:17:50.:17:55.

which completes their curriculum. But in my eyes, if I was the

:17:56.:17:58.

home-school my child, I don't have to be six hours a day, so why is it

:17:59.:18:02.

they can't still fit their curriculum in with five days out of

:18:03.:18:08.

the term for holidays? Holidays themselves in their own right are

:18:09.:18:11.

educational visits. My children have been to many countries, they have

:18:12.:18:15.

been to Turkey, Egypt, Greece, they have seen a lot of monuments and

:18:16.:18:22.

architecture, and a lot of history and a lot of cultural differences.

:18:23.:18:27.

Why is that not education in itself? Patsy Kane, that is a good point. I

:18:28.:18:33.

am not against travel and visiting places of historical interest, it is

:18:34.:18:38.

great if you can afford that. Schools are still doing their best

:18:39.:18:44.

to enrich the education. But the fact is there are 13 weeks of

:18:45.:18:47.

holiday during the year. Know, but the point is Dominique can't afford

:18:48.:18:53.

to do that in school delays because it is so expensive. I would still

:18:54.:18:58.

argue that a trip every two years is better, and there are plenty of

:18:59.:19:01.

places fist Oracle interest in this country that can easily be reached

:19:02.:19:07.

within 13 weeks holiday a year. Not like going to the old ruins of

:19:08.:19:12.

Pompeii, but I take your point. E-mail from Jack, brilliant judges,

:19:13.:19:15.

the father of Charlton to think that he and only he was right by his

:19:16.:19:19.

actions take charge out of school without consultation or permission

:19:20.:19:23.

of the head. Roger says it is the right decision by the Supreme Court.

:19:24.:19:27.

Steve says the supreme court ruling means the holiday companies can

:19:28.:19:30.

continue to levy excessively high prices during the main summer

:19:31.:19:36.

holidays. I wonder if John Platt should not have taken the travel

:19:37.:19:40.

companies to court. I am not sure if he could have an action against the

:19:41.:19:43.

travel companies, that is not something we have discussed. What is

:19:44.:19:47.

really important to understand about this is that it is not just about

:19:48.:19:51.

school holidays. It now says that attendance mean obeying the rules of

:19:52.:19:56.

what ever the school policy is. So importantly, and Katarina who I was

:19:57.:20:00.

speaking to just now, there are lots of examples John has collated of

:20:01.:20:04.

people who have had half a day here and therefore things that most

:20:05.:20:07.

people might consider to be reasonable weatherhead is not

:20:08.:20:11.

authorised it and it has resulted in a fixed penalty why prosecution. So

:20:12.:20:16.

probably it is a divisive issue but a lot of people might agree that a

:20:17.:20:19.

term time holiday is wrong but it becomes a different issue, family

:20:20.:20:24.

funerals for example, John has examples of those, where they travel

:20:25.:20:27.

for a funeral that has not been authorised. The issue goes far

:20:28.:20:32.

beyond the holidays. Patsy Kane, do you acknowledge that an unauthorised

:20:33.:20:38.

absence for a family funeral, being fined for that is crazy? I think

:20:39.:20:44.

there would be unusual. It is, but it has happened. It may have

:20:45.:20:49.

happened, that would be unusual. Most headteachers would be

:20:50.:20:52.

compassionate, there are always circumstances that genuinely qualify

:20:53.:20:58.

as exceptional circumstances. Schools and headteachers do have

:20:59.:21:02.

some flexibility in that. In my mind, most headteachers would

:21:03.:21:05.

probably consider that exceptional circumstances, so that would be a

:21:06.:21:10.

very small minority of cases. John Platt also mentioned when talking

:21:11.:21:14.

outside the Supreme Court, he said if your child wakes up tomorrow and

:21:15.:21:17.

they are really tired, you can't as a parent make the decision to let

:21:18.:21:21.

them have the day off school unless you are prepared to break the law.

:21:22.:21:25.

Do you think that is right? Part of the responsible to your parents is

:21:26.:21:29.

ensuring that your child gets to bed at a reasonable hour so they are fit

:21:30.:21:33.

for school in the morning and they do have a good night's sleep. That

:21:34.:21:38.

is a duty and responsible at the other parent. Dominique, you are

:21:39.:21:41.

shaking your head and smiling, tell us why. Whilst I am not against

:21:42.:21:48.

schooling and that children should be in school, mine are everyday,

:21:49.:21:53.

what makes me smile and laugh about that is once again that is somebody

:21:54.:22:01.

telling us how to parent our children. If we are the ones

:22:02.:22:05.

parenting our children, why can't we make the decision over where they go

:22:06.:22:09.

on holiday or when they go on holiday? And when they go to bed.

:22:10.:22:13.

Thank you very much, all of you. Thank you for coming on the

:22:14.:22:17.

programme, Dominique, and Patsy as well. Lee Peckham, thank you, John

:22:18.:22:23.

Platt's lawyer. Still to come before the end of the programme, we will be

:22:24.:22:28.

talking live to Lutalo Muhammad about how you bounce back from a

:22:29.:22:32.

massive disappointment, in his case what he considered to be a defeat,

:22:33.:22:35.

when he came within a second of gold medal at last's Olympics.

:22:36.:22:40.

Next, Melissa Cochrane and her husband Kurt were both hit

:22:41.:22:42.

by Khalid Masood's car on Westminster Bridge.

:22:43.:22:46.

Kurt was killed, Melissa suffered a broken leg,

:22:47.:22:48.

That day had been part of the trip of a lifetime,

:22:49.:22:54.

they'd travelled from their home in Utah through Europe

:22:55.:22:56.

to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary.

:22:57.:23:02.

Earlier this morning, I spoke with Kurt's son, Dallas,

:23:03.:23:04.

He says he does not hate Khalid Masood.

:23:05.:23:11.

He told me how they heard the news at home in Salt Lake City:

:23:12.:23:14.

I was home alone, and I got a text from my older brother, saying that

:23:15.:23:25.

my dad and Melissa were involved in the London attacks. I got a few

:23:26.:23:33.

photos. So that was how I first found out. Of course, it was

:23:34.:23:37.

unbelievable, I didn't really believe it at first, even after

:23:38.:23:43.

seeing the pictures, I mean, it was a heavy experience. It is still hard

:23:44.:23:51.

to take in. We confirmed that it was them, and we were talking through my

:23:52.:23:55.

aunt, and they were in contact with my grandparents, and they kind of

:23:56.:23:59.

confirmed everything for us, sent us more photos, and that's how I found

:24:00.:24:06.

out. For most people, it's unimaginable to lose their dad in

:24:07.:24:12.

this way. How do you rationalise that? Like I said, it is hard to

:24:13.:24:23.

rationalise. I still can't believe it is happening. It is so

:24:24.:24:28.

overwhelming, but I just tried to focus on the positive, and celebrate

:24:29.:24:34.

the time that I did have with my dad. Tell our British audience a bit

:24:35.:24:39.

about your dad. My dad was the most loving, giving, humble guy you can

:24:40.:24:48.

come across. Always a good time, always good hanging out with him,

:24:49.:24:52.

kids loved him. He always had a smile on his face, it was

:24:53.:24:56.

contagious, he just have that contagious laugh. He is going to be

:24:57.:25:04.

missed. He always saw the good in everything. He knew the reason we

:25:05.:25:12.

are here is just to enjoy the pleasures of life, and I think that

:25:13.:25:16.

is what he passed on to me, and he has taught me that. That is how we

:25:17.:25:21.

kind of choose to live our life. He really is an amazing guy. I want to

:25:22.:25:27.

play you something that your stepmum, Melissa, said in an

:25:28.:25:30.

interview with the BBC last night. You may have heard it already but I

:25:31.:25:33.

just want to play this already, if I may. He was probably the most loving

:25:34.:25:42.

man I've ever met. No hate. Just loved everyone. There was just such

:25:43.:25:47.

love in his heart. And you can manage to do that yourself, not feel

:25:48.:25:51.

ill will to the man that has produced in this wheelchair, that

:25:52.:25:53.

has ended your future together with your husband? You're I don't think I

:25:54.:26:02.

could feel my injuries or might Dyche myself as a person if I had

:26:03.:26:06.

hate in my heart, and Kurt wouldn't want that either, so there is no

:26:07.:26:11.

hate. I can see that you are nodding in agreement with that. Is that

:26:12.:26:16.

something you feel strongly? I feel very strongly about that, and that

:26:17.:26:19.

is exactly what my dad would want as well. Just focus on the positive.

:26:20.:26:24.

There is no reason to hate anybody for this. That is not going to fix

:26:25.:26:28.

anything, it will not make anybody feel better. So just celebrate the

:26:29.:26:33.

times that you did have. Have you thought about the man who did this?

:26:34.:26:40.

Not really at all. I have seen little pictures here and there, but

:26:41.:26:45.

I have kind of chosen to avoid looking into whatever his story was.

:26:46.:26:49.

It is not going to help me any summer knowing who it was or why he

:26:50.:26:51.

did it. I just want to be there for my

:26:52.:27:00.

stepmum in her recovery to help her out the best I can, and just

:27:01.:27:06.

remember my dad for what he was, and just focus on that. You and your

:27:07.:27:13.

family are now trying to raise money for Melissa, your dad's wife, your

:27:14.:27:19.

stepmum, because she is self-employed, isn't she? Yes, her

:27:20.:27:24.

and my dad opened up the recording studios they have, built it up from

:27:25.:27:27.

the ground up, and were self-employed. Just working out of

:27:28.:27:33.

our house. Predictably, there have been some trolls online, accusing

:27:34.:27:37.

Melissa of "Faking her injuries" after a photo appeared at her

:27:38.:27:43.

smiling in hospital. How do you react to people who have suggested

:27:44.:27:52.

that? I honestly just kind of choose to avoid that. There is a way is

:27:53.:27:58.

going to be trolls, as you say, there will always be negativity, but

:27:59.:28:01.

we choose to focus on the positive, and we are just super grateful for

:28:02.:28:07.

all the money that we have got, it has gone far beyond what we thought

:28:08.:28:11.

we were going to get. It has been amazing, all the help we have got

:28:12.:28:15.

from everybody. What has the response been like from people here

:28:16.:28:22.

in the UK, and in the States? When we were in London, it could not have

:28:23.:28:30.

been more accommodating. We were escorted everywhere, everything was

:28:31.:28:35.

sorted for us, we could not have been treated better. Fear, the night

:28:36.:28:40.

it happened, the FBI was involved, got us on a plane immediately, got

:28:41.:28:46.

us to where we needed to be, our passports and everything. It could

:28:47.:28:52.

not have gone more smoothly. And I am very thankful for everybody that

:28:53.:28:58.

was involved. Your stepmum attended the service of hope yesterday at

:28:59.:29:02.

Westminster. Do you know when she is going to be able to come home to you

:29:03.:29:08.

in Salt Lake City? We're not sure exactly. We've been told hopefully

:29:09.:29:15.

within the week. But that is still on the fence, we are not positive

:29:16.:29:20.

exactly when, but we are optimistic and hoping that we can have her home

:29:21.:29:29.

safe soon. That was Kurt Cochran's son, Dallas, talking to us earlier.

:29:30.:29:32.

Still to come in the last half-hour of the programme.

:29:33.:29:34.

We'll be talking Live to Lutalo Muhammad -

:29:35.:29:36.

about turning failure into success - after he came within

:29:37.:29:39.

a second of a gold medal at last years Olympics.

:29:40.:29:41.

Also, we will bring you details about the Labour pledge on free

:29:42.:29:47.

school meals for state primary school pupils, as their leader

:29:48.:29:51.

Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to make them available to all primary school

:29:52.:29:52.

kids in England. In the last few minutes,

:29:53.:29:57.

the father who refused to pay a fine after taking his daughter out

:29:58.:30:03.

of school for an unauthorised holiday, has lost his case

:30:04.:30:06.

the Supreme Court. Jon Platt was fined when he took his

:30:07.:30:09.

daughter away for a week He refused to pay, because -

:30:10.:30:12.

he said - his daughter's attendance The High Court had originally ruled

:30:13.:30:16.

that the holiday did not constitute regular absenteeism -

:30:17.:30:19.

but this morning, the Supreme Court has overturned that judgment,

:30:20.:30:22.

saying that it's disruptive to children's education

:30:23.:30:24.

to take them out of school. This is how Lady Hale

:30:25.:30:26.

announced the ruling. Unauthorised absences

:30:27.:30:28.

have a disruptive effect. Not only on the education

:30:29.:30:31.

of the individual child, but also on the work of other pupils

:30:32.:30:34.

and of their teachers. If one pupil can be taken

:30:35.:30:38.

out whenever it suits Different pupils might be taken

:30:39.:30:41.

out at different times, Any educational system expects

:30:42.:30:46.

people to keep the rules. Not to do so is unfair to those

:30:47.:30:54.

obedient parents who do keep the rules, whatever the cost

:30:55.:30:58.

or inconvenience to themselves. In the last few minutes Mr Platt has

:30:59.:31:10.

been giving his reaction to the judgment. Be in no doubt, despite

:31:11.:31:18.

the judgment, I followed the law precisely as laid down and

:31:19.:31:22.

interpreted by High Court judges in two different cases from 69 and

:31:23.:31:28.

2006. They told me that to attend regularly was to attend very

:31:29.:31:33.

frequently, so I decided not to pay a ?60 penalty notice because my

:31:34.:31:37.

daughter had otherwise perfect attendance at school. The decision

:31:38.:31:43.

of those High Court judges in 1969 and 2006 informed that decision, but

:31:44.:31:47.

here I stand having just been told I was wrong to rely on the decisions

:31:48.:31:51.

of those High Court judges to guide me on the law. With this judgment,

:31:52.:31:56.

those precedents have been swept away and the consequences can only

:31:57.:32:01.

be described as shocking. To attend regularly no longer means to attend

:32:02.:32:06.

frequently. It now means to attend on all the days and that all the

:32:07.:32:12.

times that the school requires it. Every unauthorised absence,

:32:13.:32:15.

including being a minute late to school, is now a criminal offence.

:32:16.:32:18.

The Prime Minister will meet the European Council President,

:32:19.:32:20.

Donald Tusk, at Downing Street this lunchtime.

:32:21.:32:21.

They're expected to discuss the Uk's exit from the European Union -

:32:22.:32:24.

a week after Mr Tusk set out the Eu's draft guidelines

:32:25.:32:27.

A mother who went missing with her two young sons has been

:32:28.:32:33.

Samantha Baldwin was last seen with six-year-old Dylan

:32:34.:32:38.

and nine-year-old Louis in Nottingham on the

:32:39.:32:39.

Nottinghamshire Police say all three have been found,

:32:40.:32:42.

Labour says if it wins the next election, it'll provide every

:32:43.:32:47.

primary school pupil in England with a free school meal, by charging

:32:48.:32:50.

Jeremy Corbyn will say this morning that a Labour government

:32:51.:32:56.

would invest in schools to ensure no child is held back because

:32:57.:32:59.

But the move has been criticised by the Independent Schools Council,

:33:00.:33:04.

which claims the sums do not add up.

:33:05.:33:07.

Pepsi has pulled its controversial new advert starring Kendall Jenner,

:33:08.:33:10.

after criticism that it was trying to commercialise protest movements

:33:11.:33:12.

The company received thousands of complaints about the tone

:33:13.:33:20.

and the content of the advert, in which Jenner joins

:33:21.:33:22.

a demonstration and gives a can of the soft drink

:33:23.:33:25.

Pepsi says it was trying to project a "global message of unity,

:33:26.:33:30.

peace and understanding", and apologised for, in its words,

:33:31.:33:32.

That is a summary of the latest news. Join me at 11. Thank you.

:33:33.:33:46.

Thank you for your reaction to the ruling from the Supreme Court. Linda

:33:47.:33:51.

says, I think parents have been penalised yet again. We already have

:33:52.:33:55.

to keep taking endless days of work for teacher training days. These

:33:56.:33:59.

should be during the school holidays. Parents have little or no

:34:00.:34:02.

time with their children and should choose when and where to spend it.

:34:03.:34:07.

Joseph says, we all know the real reason and if the holiday companies

:34:08.:34:11.

would stop ripping off hard-working parents, this problem wouldn't

:34:12.:34:14.

arise. There is no reason other than financial gain for the holiday firms

:34:15.:34:18.

to increase the price of trips during school holidays. Another

:34:19.:34:22.

Linda says if parents are not allowed to take their children on

:34:23.:34:27.

holiday during term time, why holidays organised by the school?

:34:28.:34:33.

Susan says she was delighted with the ruling. So much school time for

:34:34.:34:37.

her children was disrupted by people taking their children out of town --

:34:38.:34:41.

school during term time. Setup with these selfish people who think their

:34:42.:34:44.

child is more important than everybody else's.

:34:45.:34:49.

Now the sport. Good morning. A busy night in the Premier League last

:34:50.:34:54.

night. Chelsea are a step closer to another Premier League title after

:34:55.:34:57.

beating Manchester City 2-1. They recovered from their shock defeat to

:34:58.:35:00.

Crystal Palace at the weekend and remain seven points clear of nearest

:35:01.:35:06.

rivals Spurs. Eden Hazard was in great form, scoring his 15th and

:35:07.:35:10.

16th goals of the season. Manager Antonio Conte has been doing his

:35:11.:35:16.

songs. There are eight games to go. We must know that Tottenham are

:35:17.:35:23.

going to win the games. And for this reason we need to take 18 points to

:35:24.:35:34.

mathematically win the title. Spurs are the only team with any hope of

:35:35.:35:39.

catching Chelsea. There were 1-0 down against Swansea with two

:35:40.:35:44.

minutes left. Three goals in six minutes gave them a 3-1 win.

:35:45.:35:52.

Meanwhile, the bottom of the table, a huge win for Hull. They have

:35:53.:35:56.

climbed out of the relegation zone for the first time since October.

:35:57.:35:59.

They came from behind to beat relegation rivals Middlesbrough. The

:36:00.:36:04.

body which represents referees has apologised after Keith should --

:36:05.:36:09.

Keith Stroud's Eire last night when he failed to instruct Newcastle to

:36:10.:36:12.

retake a penalty against Burton after Pat -- players from both sides

:36:13.:36:17.

encroached into the penalty area. Matt Ritchie's spot kick went in but

:36:18.:36:22.

the referee wanly awarded Burton a free kick instead of a retake, to

:36:23.:36:27.

the bemusement of the players. Manager Rafa Benitez and 59,000

:36:28.:36:31.

Newcastle fans. Ritchie had the final word on the night as his

:36:32.:36:37.

second-half goal gave Newcastle the win which keeps them top of the

:36:38.:36:44.

Championship. Also last night, Celtic's 1-1 jaw with Partick

:36:45.:36:53.

Thistle means they are 23 points ahead of Aberdeen. The Republic of

:36:54.:36:59.

Ireland's women's team have reached an agreement with the governing body

:37:00.:37:02.

after allegations from players that they were not been treated properly.

:37:03.:37:09.

The team are threatened not to train if there were not improved support.

:37:10.:37:14.

After mediation talks, the FA I confirmed this morning that all

:37:15.:37:17.

issues have now been resolved and the players will resume training

:37:18.:37:20.

ahead of Monday's game against Slovakia. Now he might be the world

:37:21.:37:28.

number one, and have won his last three tournaments, but Dustin

:37:29.:37:31.

Johnson's brilliant 2017 came to an abrupt halt yesterday. He fell down

:37:32.:37:36.

the stairs of his rented home near Gloucester. The world number one

:37:37.:37:40.

injured his back and now could miss the Masters, which starts later

:37:41.:37:44.

today. Johnson is the favourite to win the green jacket on Sunday and

:37:45.:37:49.

has been taking anti-inflammatory tablets in a bid to make his tee

:37:50.:37:54.

time just after 7pm. A race against time. That is the sport. Thank you.

:37:55.:37:56.

Good morning. He was one second away

:37:57.:37:58.

from achieving his life's dream - winning a gold medal at the Olympics

:37:59.:38:01.

- when it all went wrong. Tae Kwon Do athlete Lutalo Muhammad

:38:02.:38:04.

was beaten in the most dramatic way in his Olympic Final

:38:05.:38:07.

last summer in Rio. He was inconsolable,

:38:08.:38:09.

picking up silver instead. He broke down on TV

:38:10.:38:10.

and apologised to the nation. So how do you cope with failure,

:38:11.:38:17.

bounce back from such Lutalo's made a film exclusively

:38:18.:38:19.

with us as he comes to terms Along the way he met people whose

:38:20.:38:23.

'failures' had been private, but for one very well-known person

:38:24.:38:27.

in particular - they'd Here is an extract.

:38:28.:38:37.

Someone whose failures and successes have been left out in the public eye

:38:38.:38:40.

for decades is businessman Lord sugar. Who better to come to for

:38:41.:38:48.

advice on moving on? There was a time in the computer industry where

:38:49.:38:52.

we were king of the computer market in Europe and we made a bad range of

:38:53.:38:58.

products that had a technical fault on them. We struggled to understand

:38:59.:39:02.

what those technical faults were. And in that period of time, we

:39:03.:39:08.

dropped from the darlings of the computer industry, down to virtually

:39:09.:39:13.

zero. That was a very tough time. A very tough time. We went from making

:39:14.:39:19.

profits of ?160 million a year to losses of 70 million. Big bank debts

:39:20.:39:26.

and things like that. That was a very tough time. In my personal

:39:27.:39:32.

experience, I lost at the Olympics in the last second. One of the

:39:33.:39:35.

hardest thing to deal with was knowing the entire world was

:39:36.:39:38.

watching. In your experience, how do you overcome that? Failure,

:39:39.:39:44.

something that went wrong, it is not a good thing. But it is factually

:39:45.:39:51.

correct. It wasn't a nice time but you have to deal with it. You can't

:39:52.:39:56.

deal with it by arguing against it or making excuses. It is factually

:39:57.:40:04.

right. We had a failure. I had a failure. And people talked about my

:40:05.:40:13.

failure and all that stuff. But you have to move on until you get your

:40:14.:40:19.

next product in the marketplace, like our satellite dishes, and

:40:20.:40:22.

suddenly everything else was forgotten. Did that criticism help

:40:23.:40:28.

you? It helped in the sense that you take no notice of it. It is like the

:40:29.:40:34.

old thing, yesterday's newspaper, really. Our cousins in America have

:40:35.:40:40.

got a new president. He doesn't seem to have learned that lesson. I'm

:40:41.:40:45.

actually -- absolutely surprised about that. He seems to react to

:40:46.:40:48.

every bit of criticism that is thrown at him, whereas he shouldn't,

:40:49.:40:56.

really. It should be water off duck's back. All I have to do is win

:40:57.:41:01.

the medal and everything will be forgotten? Yeah exactly. And United

:41:02.:41:06.

do that. -- and you know how to do that. I

:41:07.:41:10.

have just spoken to Lord sugar and what I have learned is that I can't

:41:11.:41:16.

focus on the outside noise, I can only focus on what I can control.

:41:17.:41:20.

Good morning. Good morning. How are you? Really well. Brilliance to be

:41:21.:41:34.

here. What did you want to get out of this film? A few things. A little

:41:35.:41:42.

bit of closure. Two, I guess, finally close that chapter. It's

:41:43.:41:48.

such a big part of my life. I received so much exposure from it.

:41:49.:41:57.

To be able to move on and get -- and chased the next gold medal in Tokyo.

:41:58.:42:02.

But also what it gave me that I probably didn't expect was a lot of

:42:03.:42:07.

perspective. Speaking to people like Lord sugar was an amazing

:42:08.:42:12.

experience. But also speaking to Naomi and Paloma, who have been

:42:13.:42:20.

through really, really ruff times. They didn't receive a sink -- silver

:42:21.:42:25.

medal as consolation for their perceived failure. I felt a lot of

:42:26.:42:33.

empathy for them. It makes me think about people should never think they

:42:34.:42:39.

are failures. You should always see the positive in every situation, but

:42:40.:42:42.

for some people that is harder than others. Butterfat perspective is

:42:43.:42:49.

key. Let me read you this e-mail. Joshua is 23. He says, I wish to

:42:50.:42:54.

tell anybody watching that learning how to fail, learning how to fall,

:42:55.:43:01.

actually, has been my most painful and greatest lesson in my life so

:43:02.:43:07.

far. I'm 23. My mum took her own life when I was 16 and I had to take

:43:08.:43:11.

a break from my studies. Being the competitive person I was, I felt I

:43:12.:43:15.

was a failure as I saw my peers go on to achieve the things I want to.

:43:16.:43:19.

But grief is a painful thing that you must work with and not against.

:43:20.:43:25.

Healing time is essential. Having slowly learned to stopping so harsh

:43:26.:43:27.

on myself and learning more about grief besides, I feel that every

:43:28.:43:33.

setback I encounter has less of an effect on my progress. This is in

:43:34.:43:38.

part? To my being far less concerned with -- with what the world thinks

:43:39.:43:42.

about what I have not achieved, if indeed it really does think

:43:43.:43:46.

anything. I am now studying for a degree in physics at university, it

:43:47.:43:49.

is a subject I'm very passionate about. Very moving. And he has been

:43:50.:43:56.

able to use adversity to go forward? Wow. Obviously what he has been

:43:57.:44:04.

through, I can't even imagine the pain. But the fact he has used it to

:44:05.:44:09.

come back and he is now doing well, he is now successful, I think it's

:44:10.:44:17.

brilliant. And I hope a lot of people watch this documentary and

:44:18.:44:22.

learn some stories, and they can understand that failure is not

:44:23.:44:26.

necessarily the end. I like what he says about healing time. It's

:44:27.:44:31.

natural to grieve. Two must get it out of your system. But eventually

:44:32.:44:36.

time heals all wounds and you can move on from it. That was a really

:44:37.:44:43.

touching e-mail. What is making this film told you about yourself? It may

:44:44.:44:47.

not have told you anything. I'm not asking for a profound answer. If

:44:48.:44:53.

there is one, go for it. I feel like I learnt... I really do think

:44:54.:45:01.

perspective is a big word. For me, speaking to people who I believe

:45:02.:45:04.

have gone through far worse things than I am, Paloma's story about her

:45:05.:45:12.

young child. It really was quite touching.

:45:13.:45:18.

It makes me feel grateful for what I have there is a lot of empathy for

:45:19.:45:25.

what people have been through. I think people are too hard on

:45:26.:45:31.

themselves. When the ball have hit rock bottom, we as humans are

:45:32.:45:37.

naturally just a bit too hard on ourselves. But then you look at Lord

:45:38.:45:47.

sugar, and how his, how he responds to criticism, almost to ignore it.

:45:48.:45:52.

Water off a duck's back and he keeps moving forward. That has been a

:45:53.:45:55.

crucial element to all the stories in this piece, that we have to keep

:45:56.:45:58.

on moving forward and be positive. The point he made about criticism,

:45:59.:46:05.

who cares what other people think? Joshua has got a very wise head on

:46:06.:46:11.

young shoulders. Lord sugar has had decades of experience, the ups and

:46:12.:46:13.

downs, in terms of business success and failures. It is kind of easy for

:46:14.:46:18.

him to say who cares what other people think because he is more

:46:19.:46:23.

mature. That is something we learn over time. These experiences are

:46:24.:46:30.

almost a necessary part of our growth that is how I see the

:46:31.:46:34.

Olympics. Every part of my career whether it was the bronze in London,

:46:35.:46:40.

the silver in Rio, both of those medals at things around them. I have

:46:41.:46:44.

learned and Beano to move forward from them. It has given me a lot of

:46:45.:46:49.

confidence that I have this experience. I feel like I will be

:46:50.:46:54.

the oldest 29-year-old of the world when I go into Tokyo because I had

:46:55.:47:00.

so much life experience. I am very sure because I will be the user to

:47:01.:47:04.

convert it into gold. I hope you do! I know I will. Oh my gosh, I love

:47:05.:47:12.

the confidence Lutalo, and thank you for making the film. Next, Labour

:47:13.:47:17.

leader Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to extend free school meals to all

:47:18.:47:21.

primary school pupils in England and pay for it by taxing parents who

:47:22.:47:24.

send their children to private schools. Let's get more on this with

:47:25.:47:33.

Kelly Price, who is at Westminster. This is a big policy approach and

:47:34.:47:38.

not a cheap one either. -- policy pledge will stop Jeremy Corbyn wants

:47:39.:47:42.

all primary scored children to have access to free school meals, and he

:47:43.:47:46.

reckons about 90% of children in primary schools would take Labour

:47:47.:47:49.

out of its offer, and it would cost about ?900 million a year to pay for

:47:50.:47:54.

it, it would introduce VAT on private school fees. They reckon

:47:55.:47:59.

that would raise about ?1.5 billion a year. So those other sums. They

:48:00.:48:05.

reckon if this was a policy that was introduced it would increase

:48:06.:48:06.

attainment in primary schools but also it would boost healthy eating.

:48:07.:48:12.

This is what the Shadow Education Secretary had to say about this. We

:48:13.:48:17.

know that would benefit all children, and it ends that stigma

:48:18.:48:20.

about the children that can afford and the children that cannot afford.

:48:21.:48:24.

It is about making sure every child is provided with a free school meal

:48:25.:48:27.

and a Hotmail for that day, so it is a really good socially progressive

:48:28.:48:31.

policy that is universal, for all those families that are working

:48:32.:48:35.

hard, paying their taxes, that want to see they get a benefit from that.

:48:36.:48:38.

Those young people deserve just as much as all the other young people.

:48:39.:48:50.

I don't want it to be means tested, I think it is a really socially

:48:51.:48:52.

progressive policy. At the moment, all children in years one and two

:48:53.:48:55.

are eligible to have free school meals, and then if you are from a

:48:56.:48:57.

family that receives certain benefits, around 15% of pupils at

:48:58.:49:00.

primary schools in years three to six have access to free school meals

:49:01.:49:05.

too, so those are the numbers at the moment. It is interesting, the

:49:06.:49:09.

former head of Ofsted Sir Michael Will Shaw so this is a difficult

:49:10.:49:13.

policy because really the money that could be going to poorer families

:49:14.:49:17.

would be wasted essentially on those families that could afford free

:49:18.:49:20.

school meals. We have also heard from the Independent school council

:49:21.:49:24.

that says this could be incredibly damaging to private schools too, and

:49:25.:49:28.

say it could force some smaller private schools out of business if

:49:29.:49:36.

some parents are to pay taxes on their fees. And others who say the

:49:37.:49:41.

numbers would not add We can now speak to Mike Buchanan,

:49:42.:49:44.

Chair of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference,

:49:45.:49:47.

'that's the professional Association of Heads of the world's leading

:49:48.:49:49.

independent schools and also and to Rachel, who is a working

:49:50.:50:00.

mother of two teenagers aged 14 and 17, and they both go to private

:50:01.:50:04.

schools. Your reaction, Rachel, but it will be the 80 on your fees that

:50:05.:50:10.

pay of this policy. I was shocked to hear that is a possibility, because

:50:11.:50:16.

we work very hard in order to send our kids. It is our choice to send

:50:17.:50:21.

our kids to private school. It is crippling to pay the fees, and an

:50:22.:50:25.

extra credits and would probably mean we have to rethink our

:50:26.:50:31.

decision. Really? Yeah. Psephology said Jeremy Corbyn? I think he needs

:50:32.:50:38.

to think again about the risk -- the redistribution of wealth. I am

:50:39.:50:44.

entirely in agreement that every child should be able to receive the

:50:45.:50:50.

school meals they are entitled to, but I just don't believe that it

:50:51.:50:53.

should be paid for by people who are struggling, who have made the choice

:50:54.:50:58.

but are struggling to send their pupils to private school. Some

:50:59.:51:02.

people think that if you send your children to private school, you are

:51:03.:51:06.

kind of rolling in it. I think that is the impression people get. It is

:51:07.:51:11.

definitely not the case. There are those people who can afford, and can

:51:12.:51:16.

more than afford to send their children to private school, and

:51:17.:51:19.

there are those who choose to and make sacrifices to do so. What

:51:20.:51:24.

sacrifices have you and your husband made? We both work very hard, we

:51:25.:51:32.

don't go on an annual family holiday, we don't have new cars, we

:51:33.:51:38.

don't eat out, we have to make sacrifices like that in order to pay

:51:39.:51:42.

for the school fees, which we believe is edible food way of using

:51:43.:51:46.

our income. Mike Buchanan, how do you react to this pledge from the

:51:47.:51:51.

Labour Party? The it is full of dodgy maths and myths and

:51:52.:51:54.

misunderstanding. As Rachel has said, it is unfair to parents who

:51:55.:51:59.

are already paying twice for private education. Because they pay their

:52:00.:52:03.

taxes to pay for the state sector and then choose to send them to

:52:04.:52:08.

private schools. Yes, and this would be a third payment they have to

:52:09.:52:12.

make. More importantly, the numbers just don't stack up. If you add 20%

:52:13.:52:19.

to the fees, most independent schools in this country have fewer

:52:20.:52:22.

than 400 pupil school that would cripple a school of that size and

:52:23.:52:25.

you would simply drive pupils into the state sector. A rough estimate

:52:26.:52:31.

on my way here would be the net cost to the state would be about ?1

:52:32.:52:41.

billion. Right. What would be wrong in your view with driving your

:52:42.:52:43.

parents and kids to the state sector is that it would not go to cope with

:52:44.:52:49.

it? If they were, they would have to build new schools, and that would be

:52:50.:52:54.

a huge capital cost. As well as of course paying for the extra places

:52:55.:53:00.

on a year by year basis. It will be very popular with some Labour

:53:01.:53:04.

voters, because it appears to give free school meals to everybody at

:53:05.:53:08.

primary schools, including rich parents who stand their children to

:53:09.:53:14.

state schools. It also adds an extra cost to people who are perceived to

:53:15.:53:20.

be rolling in it. It is the perception that is a myth we have

:53:21.:53:24.

got to bust. Rachel is a fairly typical independent school parent. I

:53:25.:53:29.

run a school, 1000 children, most of my parents are just like Rachel, two

:53:30.:53:34.

working parents, sometimes a single parent, not earning huge amounts,

:53:35.:53:37.

not in the other wealthy category. They would be crippled by adding 20%

:53:38.:53:47.

of their fees. Rachel, go on. I was just agreeing. The principle of all

:53:48.:53:52.

children at state primaries getting free school meals, including those

:53:53.:53:55.

who can afford to pay for it, what do you think of that? I am entirely

:53:56.:54:00.

supportive of every child in this country getting a great education,

:54:01.:54:03.

and part of that is making sure they are well prepared for school,

:54:04.:54:06.

whether that is from breakfast clubs or free school meals at lunchtime

:54:07.:54:10.

acceptor, but it does seem rather order that the Labour Party is

:54:11.:54:14.

proposing on the one hand to penalised those who choose to send

:54:15.:54:18.

the child to a private school, and they have equated private education

:54:19.:54:23.

with wealth. There are wealthy people who are not using wealthy

:54:24.:54:26.

education. They have made that mistake. And of course they are

:54:27.:54:31.

giving that money back to people who don't need it. Thank you both, thank

:54:32.:54:38.

you for coming on the programme. Thank you to you, all of you, for

:54:39.:54:42.

your comments on changes to bereavement payments, which come in

:54:43.:54:46.

from today. Any parent from today who loses their spouse or civil

:54:47.:54:50.

partner will be able to claim a maximum of 18 months of financial

:54:51.:54:57.

support, that is down from 20 years. But the initial lump sum you receive

:54:58.:55:04.

has gone up by ?1500 from ?2000 to ?3500, and the payments over the 18

:55:05.:55:07.

months will be tax-free and they will not affect any other benefits.

:55:08.:55:12.

The Conservative peer Baroness Altman has been granted an urgent

:55:13.:55:14.

question in the House of Lords on this issue today. She was on our

:55:15.:55:20.

programme on Tuesday talking to Alan, who has incurable cancer, and

:55:21.:55:24.

he was worried about what will his wife and two children be able to

:55:25.:55:30.

claim after he dies. Can you confirm and explain what the significance of

:55:31.:55:36.

an urgent question is? Well, every week there is a ballot for a

:55:37.:55:40.

question on something that has come up urgently that week, and

:55:41.:55:46.

immediately after our interview on your programme on Tuesday, I put my

:55:47.:55:51.

name down for that ballot with a question to ask the Minister to come

:55:52.:55:55.

to the house and explain, or ask why, he might reconsider these cuts

:55:56.:56:02.

to support for bereaved families with children. And that question

:56:03.:56:06.

will be asked in about half an hour's time in the house. I also

:56:07.:56:12.

committed on the programme to getting a cross-party group from all

:56:13.:56:16.

sides of the House of Lords to write to the Minister to ask him to

:56:17.:56:21.

reconsider. We have written to the Secretary of State. This is

:56:22.:56:23.

supported across the House of Lords, to ask him to X end the period of

:56:24.:56:29.

support for families with children, if they are very. 18 months simply

:56:30.:56:34.

is not long enough for them -- if they are but you've. For the

:56:35.:56:37.

children to have ended -- if they are bereaved. Who is the Minister

:56:38.:56:46.

that is coming to the Lords to hear your urgent question? The minister

:56:47.:56:51.

today is Lord Henley, but we have written our letter actually to the

:56:52.:56:55.

Secretary of State, Damian Green, and we are asking for an urgent

:56:56.:56:59.

meeting with him to see if we can get the department to reconsider

:57:00.:57:06.

these cuts, because what is the welfare state for? What is national

:57:07.:57:08.

insurance for, if it isn't to support children through such tragic

:57:09.:57:15.

circumstances? OK. Thank you for coming back on the programme again.

:57:16.:57:19.

Baroness Altman is a Conservative peer. We will continue to report on

:57:20.:57:27.

that issue. A couple of messages about Lutalo Muhammad and his film

:57:28.:57:31.

on how you react to failure or perceived failure. This one says

:57:32.:57:36.

Lord sugar on your programme today is a breath of fresh air.

:57:37.:57:39.

Perspective on failure is the key to success. This film has wriggled me

:57:40.:57:43.

thinking this morning. For me, Lutalo's reaction at losing was what

:57:44.:57:48.

I would expect. When you see other sportsmen and women happily losing

:57:49.:57:52.

hands after Ashun shaking hands after losing, they clearly did not

:57:53.:57:56.

want it enough. That said, people do not know how to deal with defeat.

:57:57.:58:00.

Remember the higher you climb, the longer you fall, so be ready for it

:58:01.:58:04.

and good luck to Lutalo Muhammad in 2020. This one on Facebook he was

:58:05.:58:09.

robbed, the clock had run out but the buzzer came late after it come I

:58:10.:58:14.

don't think that is true, Lindsey. And Sue on Facebook, he was a gold

:58:15.:58:19.

medal winner in many people Buzz Maggaiz, including mine.

:58:20.:58:21.

to sit down and really flush everything out.

:58:22.:58:41.