18/04/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Welcome to the programme. This morning, it has been called barbaric

and a scandal and now we have learned that hundreds of women are

suing the NHS and manufacturers of vaginal mesh implants which has left

them unable to walk, work or have sex. I have had over 53 admissions

over the last five years, because of agonising pain. My husband has

turned into my carer, he is so much less of my husband. We cannot have

sex, we have not had sex for four and a half years. It completely my

life. I have been left disabled, I am double incontinence, I have no

control over my bladder, over my bowel. I will not leave the house

until I know that my bladder is empty. Fitted with these

instruments, we hear testimony that says it should be banned. It is a

device of torture. In the 21st-century, if they were using

torture, to extract things, then they could use this.

Watch the full story in just over ten minutes time,

Also on the programme, smashing the stigma on mental health,

just how much good are William and Harry doing by talking so

And, North Korea says it's prepared to engage in "all out war"

if the United States takes military action.

We'll look at what the secretive country's next move could be.

Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.

Throughout the morning, the latest breaking news

get in touch and tell us your experience,

It has for millions of women, use the hashtag Victoria

live and of you text, you will be charged

The Duke of Cambridge has echoed his younger brother in urging

people to talk about their mental health issues -

saying the British "stiff upper lip" should not come

In a video, Prince William talks to the music star Lady Gaga as part

It comes after Prince Harry said he sought counselling to come

to terms with the death of their mother.

In the video they discuss Lady Gaga's own battle with mental

health, and urge people to speak up about how they're feeling.

It is interesting to see and hear from you how much having that

conversation and that ability to speak to someone really made a

difference, for me, the little bits I have learned so far about mental

health, very much a case of, it is OK to have the conversation, really

important to have the conversation, you won't be judged. So important to

break open that fear and that to boot, it will only lead to more

problems down the line. -- and that taboo.

We can talk to Peter Hunt our Royal correspondent about this now.

Not often that you would see a video that begins, hello, Prince William,

hello, Lady Gaga, look at her social media presence, 69 million followers

on Twitter, 23.8 million followers on Instagram, a person with a very

dealt with PTSD after she was raked dealt with PTSD after she was raked

at the age of 19, they want a bigger at the age of 19, they want a bigger

group of people with profile to continue this campaign. It is

reflective of a generational change, a generational change in society and

a generational change within the Royal family, he mentions the

British stiff upper lip. The institution of the Royal family used

to symbolise that. Now, he Prince William, future king, is saying it

may have its place but should not be at the extent of mental health and

talks in an interview with a magazine called Calm, which aims to

tackle men's suicide, the biggest killer of men aged 45 and under in

the UK, hoping that people can talk openly as they grow up.

The US Vice President Mike Pence, has arrived in Tokyo

from South Korea for talks and has reaffirmed Washington's

commitment to reining in North Korea's nuclear ambitions.

It follows a warning from a senior North Korean official,

in an interview with the BBC's John Sudworth, that his country

would carry out a pre-emptive nuclear strike if it saw signs

Our correspondent in Tokyo, Rupert Wingfield Hayes,

Essentially, there is brinkmanship going on from both sides.

We have seen first President Trump and now

Vice President Pence saying to the North Koreans, don't push us,

We are prepared to use military action if necessary.

Then we have seen in this interview with John yesterday, from the Vice

Foreign Minister in Pyongyang, them saying, well, look, if you infringe

on our territory, on our sovereignty, we will retaliate

It all sounds very alarming, but actually, what is

going on here is diplomacy by other means, if you like, and I think what

the American government is trying to do is to send a message to North

Korea, and also, crucially, to China, saying that the American

government is not prepared to continue with the status quo, and

making a realistic threat of military

force, if you like, but the

purpose of that is to get China to tighten

its sanctions against the North Korean regime.

And there are some signs that that might be

China has now said it might impose oil

So, perhaps this alarmist language is starting

An investigation by this programme has found that more than 800 UK

women are taking legal action against the NHS and the makers

The implants are used to treat pelvic organ prolapse

and incontinence after childbirth, but some can cut into the vagina,

Some women have been left in permanent pain,

We'll have much more on this in just a few moments.

Ministers are to set out new proposals to speed up appeals

by foreign criminals and failed asylum seekers held in detention.

A previous fast-track scheme was scrapped 2 years ago

after the Court of Appeal ruled it unlawful.

Officials say that, if implemented, the system could speed up around

President Trump has called the Turkish leader,

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, to congratulate him on his victory

in Sunday's referendum on constitutional changes.

The White House said Mr Trump also thanked President Erdogan

for supporting the US missile strike on a Syrian government

The Turkish government has announced it's extending

the country's state of emergency, introduced after an attempted

Facebook has launched a review of how it deals

with violent content, after a video apparently showing

the killing of a pensioner in Ohio remained on the network

Police are still looking for Steve Stephens, who posted

a video of the attack on 74-year-old Robert Godwin, who was picked

Officers say the suspect is armed and dangerous.

The supreme court in the American state of Arkansas has halted two

executions which were due to have been the first of seven to be

carried out before the end of the month.

Lawyers for the two convicted murderers had raised questions

The Arkansas government said it would seek an immediate review.

Its supply of one of the drugs used in the lethal injections will expire

This e-mail, thank you for highlighting the pain that this

operation has caused many women, personally I was a nurse before I

went in for this operation and was not aware of the problems at the

time, I am now disabled by pain and I no longer work, I use sticks and

if I go out our use an electric wheelchair, the NHS has a duty not

to put more women through this, if it is a worldwide scandal, I hope

that this raises awareness. It is like the women cannot win, suffering

with and without the mesh stop what I lost their jobs because the

implant hurt so much I could not move my left arm, once I caught the

incision site with perfume and the GP kept prodding it and hurting me.

This e-mail, I was diagnosed with complications from a vaginal tape

insertion operation. The tape is eroding through into my joiner. The

piece is hugely relevant, as you can see. Bear in mind, this is a

procedure that has worked for millions of women around the world.

Let us know as well. If you get in touch use the hashtag.

If few sore heads in bright in this morning. What a day for those bright

and fans, bright and players, everyone at the club, back in the

top flight for the English leagues, after 34 years, they beat Wigan,

2-1, with Huddersfield failing to win, that confirmed they will be in

the Premier League, Glenn Murray's goal, 2-1, it finished, 20 years to

the day almost since they were less than 13 minutes of dropping out of

the football league completely, they sold the Goldstone ground, to

property developers to pay off debts, the fans had to travel 70

miles to go to watch games in Chillingham. This is them, that man,

double parked, outrageous(!) moved to the with Dean, professional poker

player Tony Bloom came in, top manager in Chris Hughton, selling

out a 30,000 seater stadium, the Amex Stadium, amazing journey,

brighten into the Premier League. -- macro

-- Brighton into the Premier League. -- Withdean. Arsenal have won a

game, winning 2-1 over Middlesbrough, Mesut Ozil secured

the much-needed 3.4 Arsenal, with a strike at the near post, Alexis

S nchez got man of the match, he helped Arsenal take the lead with

his excellent free kick, lvaro Negredo got the equaliser, Mesut

Ozil getting the win. Arsene Wenger will be pleased to see his star man

smiling but will it be enough to keep the man at the club, trying to

sign a new contract, big win for the Arsenal in terms of the top four.

First this morning, it's a scandal which could

cost the NHS millions of pounds in compensation.

This programme has learnt that more than 800 women in the UK are taking

legal action against the NHS and manufacturers over

what they describe as"barbaric" vaginal mesh implants.

The implants, which are used to treat pelvic organ prolapse

and bladder incontinence after childbirth, can erode

and cut into the vagina - causing severe pain and discomfort -

and leaving some women registered disabled.

For the majority of women they work - but others have been

left in permanent pain, unable to walk unaided,

In our exclusive report we'll hear calls for them to banned on the NHS.

a dozen of those women who are taking legal action,

and you would support that call for them to be banned?

The UK regulatory body MHRA said it "sympathises" with the women

affected but that it believes the benefits outweigh the risks.

I've been to meet some of the women affected,

and just to let you know the report includes graphic description

from the beginning which you may not want children to watch:

In the 21st-century, if they were using

torture to extract things, they could use mesh.

My husband has turned into my carer, and he's so

We haven't had sex for four and a half years.

I have no control over my bowel or my bladder,

He examined me and he could actually see the

tape was coming through my vagina, so it was actually all the way

It's used when women have a prolapse or

bladder incontinence, normally brought on by childbirth, and it's

often made from polypropylene, that's the same material used to

Tens of thousands of women in the UK have had one,

but this programme has learnt that more than 800 of them

are now taking legal action against the NHS

and the manufacturers because this innocuous looking piece

of match can erode, disintegrate and lead

This simple procedure could end up costing the health

service tens of millions of pounds in compensation, but some want to

I am registered disabled and doubly incontinent,

and I have no control over my bowel or my bladder,

so I'm just terrified that I go out...

I'll not leave the house until I know my bowel is empty.

Karen, let me ask you about the impact on you of

I've got extensive nerve damage in my left leg and my

I am double incontinent, so that's bowel and bladder.

that I've had to go and see an emergency counsellor.

I'm seeing a physiotherapist to keep my joints

moving because they are seizing up because the pain is just so severe

some days that it easier just to stay in bed, but that's not

You know, I never foresaw that having a 40 minute

procedure twice would be this devastating.

Vaginal meshes are designed to be permanent.

They are used to treat either prolapse or bladder incontinence.

The mesh effectively acts like a sling or

hammock, holding up the internal pelvic organs in the case

of a prolapse, or supporting the urethra, or bladder neck,

Whilst they work for the majority of women,

when they go wrong, they can be difficult to remove.

Doctor Mark Slack is a surgeon who fits some

These are a model representation of the organs

of the bladder, uterus, and the bowel at the back.

This is much smaller than an actual pelvis.

This is less than a quarter of the size of a normal

It's made long enough to be able to go from the

vagina, up through the abdominal wall, and goes in behind the pelvis,

on either side of the bladder neck, into a space where there are no

It comes out through the skin, and taken right out, and

the tape is cut off, leaving the tape forming a hammock

My reality was absolutely fantastic for the

And then I began to have what felt like period pains,

but very intense period pains that would go on for days and weeks.

I was referred back to my gynaecologist, who said,

I had a full abdominal hysterectomy to try and rectify my pain.

And, of course, I still had it there after that.

So, I lost my womb for no reason, and I was 39.

I went to see my GP after I had my hysterectomy,

and I said that I was still in pain, and he looked at me

square in the face and said, Claire, we have had you out on an operating

Wow... How did that make you feel?

I got back in my car and I phoned my husband,

I can't live any more. I can't go through this.

I actually do think it's... I'm believing the doctors.

I'm very lucky that something kicked in.

Over the last five years, I counted, actually...

I can feel like something really sharp, every time I walk.

It feels like something sharp's inside me.

And I couldn't understand what it was, so I went back.

I had an appointment coming up to see a

He examined me, and he could actually see the tape was

coming through my vagina, so it was all the way

When you say tape, we are talking about the mesh?

Yes, so a piece of that had worked its way - which was

this erosion thing - it worked its way through and come

My husband has turned into my carer, and he's so much less of my husband.

We haven't had sex for forum and years.

We haven't had sex for four and a half years.

It's cause for divorce, not having sexual

Imagine a hedgehog covered in chilli sauce.

So, when people say, why can't you have sex

The burning is so intense, that's how it feels.

To the point where I couldn't even use

a tampon during my period, because the burning,

that would exacerbate the burning, but also, that would

then send shooting pains down my legs.

Interestingly, once I had had the mesh removed, within three days

of removal, all that burning has gone.

It is. It's barbaric.

That's the only way to describe it, really.

It slices through the wall, so when women are having sex, sometimes

their partners are being injured during sex, because it's cutting

We've learned that one of the leading manufacturers of mesh,

Ethicon, a subsidiary of Johnson Johnson,

knew about problems over ten years ago.

This is not going to go away any time soon,

and the competition will have a field day.

Major damage control offensive needs to start to educate

2004, they realised, according to this

Horrendous. It's outrageous.

That they are harming women and they know about it, and

How can they do this to women? In this day and age...

Five years ago, in the United States, senior executives at

Ethicon, the Johnson Johnson subsidiary,

were cross-examined as part of a civil lawsuit against the

manufacturer, and it became clear they knew

that once implanted in women, mesh could contract

Product requirement five was that the mesh must not

shrink, but on the other hand, you knew that shrinkage was going to

happen and the mesh would shrink, correct?

Are you aware that the erosion rate at one year in the

TVM study, if you counted all the exposures of the mesh into the

vagina that occurred, as of one year, it was 20.7% of the women?

Yes. I'm aware of that.

And it's your testimony to this jury that

that's acceptable to you, that the top

surgeons in the world, the very best, had eight 20.7%

If I met them, I would ask him, would he put it in

his wife, his mother, his sister, his niece?

When he knows the shrinkage. And he has totally dismissed it.

Honest to God, I don't think I could say anything polite.

I'm just so angry that people like him just

I'm somebody's partner, somebody's mum,

somebody's sister, and all these people are impacted on it.

You knew it would lead to erosion, correct?

You knew it could lead to dyspareunia, correct?

You knew that it could lead to the need to have

subsequent invasive operations to try to

either remove or revise that contracted mesh, correct?

He's sitting with his finger on his head,

going yes, yes, yes, and I'm hoping that

he's going to say no, and he doesn't, and he's just

What we've been through. They knew it.

2012 was two years from my first implantation, so when

he was saying all this, I was at a surgeon, begging

Ethicon, subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson, manufacturer of

vaginal meshes, also tell us that they are no longer marketing

Doctors are still performing them, day in, day out.

I would like to implant it in one of them, let them feel this pain.

This doctor is a surgeon many women turn to to try and remove the mesh.

I tend to see patients who have suffered complications,

long-term complications, as a result of these materials,

and you will be aware that many of them have had

either prolapse or incontinence mesh put in to help with their symptoms,

originally, and then some of them have developed problems very soon

afterwards, but a lot of them have developed problems several years

So, the typical type of patient I see is a

patient who is incapacitated by severe pain, of a chronic nature,

often they are on high medication, including opiates.

They become so incapacitated that many of them are

either walking with crutches or sitting in wheelchairs, and perhaps

more dramatically, they become unable to look after their families.

Many will give up work, and some of them will lose their partners...

Because relationships... Relationships break down, yes.

It becomes extremely difficult to manage their life as a whole.

Vaginal meshes are still being used by surgeons up and down the country,

and there are something like 100 different types on the market.

To get them approved for clinical use, it's

In Europe and America, it does need to be approved, but it

doesn't need any evidence when it gets approved, because it can use

other devices, what is called equivalence, to say, my device is

the same as yours, so I would like approval, please.

And what happens is, the regulatory body says, no

Do you believe the NHS should stop using these meshes?

I do believe they should stop using these meshes,

and if people want to come back and say, I'm going to innovate,

develop, then they have to do that in the

As opposed to using human beings over a 15 year

This has been going on since 2000, and using them as

experiments, when actually, you should be saying honestly, we are

able to tell you, here is a device, here is the benefit, here is a

If you can't say that, you shouldn't make it

So far, not one single model of mesh has been recalled in

Many of the women we have spoken to say they were never

told by their surgeons about the potential risks associated

Do you tell women about the potential medium to

long-term problems that the mesh can erode

into the vagina, that the mesh can disintegrate?

That the mesh can make having sex so painful that,

actually, that woman can never have sex again?

We have a patient information leaflet.

We divide them into common, very common, uncommon.

We give examples of what common means in terms of numbers.

Right, but do you have those conversations?

Yes, we do. We've got an information leaflet.

No, but do you have conversations? Yes.

For many women, this is a really good procedure.

For some women, it's a pretty horrific procedure.

It has a massive impact on their life in a

I have enormous sympathy for the patients

Is it worth it, then? Not for that group.

Would you carry out a mesh implant procedure

Even though it goes wrong for some women?

It would be very much my wife's decision about

whether or not she would undergo such an implant.

You would let your wife have one of those for a prolapse?

The UK regulatory body, the MHRA, says most women, the use of

vaginal mesh implant is safe and effective.

A recent review in Scotland said mesh implant is

A recent review in Scotland said mesh implants

shouldn't be routinely used for pelvic organ prolapse,

A separate review is under way in England and

In the States, thousands of women have sued manufacturers,

receiving pay-outs that totalled $2 billion.

In the UK, we've obtained NHS data which suggest around

100,000 women have had the implants, and almost 9% of those women

But the true figure could be even higher, so why

I want the procedure banned, I want the

I want surgeons to give the full information.

Just stop making it. Stop making it.

Please, it is a device of torture, and as

Anne-Marie said, in the 21st-century, if they were using

torture to extract things, then you could use mesh.

It is that... But please, just stop.

If pain takes you to a place where you feel, to me,

that suicide and leaving people behind you is less painful than

them enduring watching you being in pain, then please, just stop.

Just don't let anybody else have to live this.

while our guests in the studio were watching that, some of the women,

some affected by the implants, were in tears. Why was it so upsetting

for view to watch that? It is upsetting because women's lives have

changed so dramatically but worse than that they are not listen to and

when they go back to the surgeons, the majority are told, that has

nothing to do with your implant. Some go for years back to

consultants and GPs to find a solution to the pain which adds to

the distress. You 42 and have this a couple of years ago. When did the

problems start? For me it was straight after surgery and I was

told it was bruising and you believe that, it was part of the bigger

operation for a prolapse repair and I trusted the surgeon and it was

said it was because I had been in stirrups for hours. I went back

weeks later and was still suffering from pain and it was like tight

elastic bands down my legs and he said it was bruising. I went back

about six months later, he thought to tell me again it was still

bruising. One year later I had an episode when I could not walk for

three days and had a shooting pain in my groin. My husband took me to

see him and he told me it was bruising and I told him I did not

believe him any more. I had what felt like a block of ice attached to

my buttocks. I was in constant pain. It was almost like torture. The

elastic band feeling turned to almost like an acid, fire in my

nerves. That got stronger over the two years, to the point now I am on

as many painkillers as I am allowed to take and have steroids and I am

on a waiting list to have barbaric torture item removed.

You have brought your daughters here with you, you do a lot of looking

after your mother because it is difficult for her to get around and

do the normal things she used to do. It goes from ironing, to the

washing, I make my little brother's dinner, taken to bed, do barks, I

walk in and I checked her drug status and that is it for the rest

of the night, she is a zombie. -- do baths. You are a young woman, 42

years old. It is like I have aged 40 years in the last two years. My

four-year-old does not even remember the phone version of me, we used to

go out shopping and bowling and have fun, I used to be able to have sex

and that has gone out the window. I feel like an 80-year-old woman in a

42-year-old's body, it is really infuriating, watching the VAT, to

find that they knew about it, I had the operation two years ago and they

were aware of the risks. -- VT. When I asked my surgeon if he was using

mesh I was told that he was not. The leaflet that I was given said it was

a tape or sling, nowhere was it written that it was mesh and I only

found out a year after surgery and I was disgusted. Rachel from e-mail

says, I had this procedure, I had been suffering from incontinence for

years, I am now dry and I have my life back, easy" recovery, all has

been well, I wish I had it years ago. It is worth remembering that

for millions of women, no consolation to those sitting here,

but for millions of women, it is a procedure that has transformed their

lives positively. We asked Johnson and Johnson, the NHS, the Department

of Health England, and Scotland, the regulatory body, we asked them all

for an interview, they all said no, in statements, they told us, these

devices have helped millions of women suffering from stress urinary

incontinence and pelvic prolapse, on that leaked e-mail they said, taken

out of context it could be extremely misleading, and they said that they

will vigorously defend litigation claims. And the MHR Ray said that

they are committed to addressing the serious concerns raised by some

patience and the greater proportion of the community support the use of

these devices in the UK for the treatment of the distressing

conditions of organ prolapse and incontinence. More messages, so many

people getting in touch from around the country. My wife had mesh

surgery in 2008 and it has ruined our lives and my career. She has

been driven to suicidal depression with the pain, incarcerated in a

mental health ward, left mentally and physically incapable. Mesh

Surgery is too risky and should be banned. Thank you for highlighting

these issues, dawn on Facebook says, I am a medical professional working

for the NHS and were stupid enough not to do my research before having

the operation, I had it removed in 2015 but I suffered critical pelvic

pain, fatigue and repairing urinary tract infections, life as I knew it

is no more, I'm still able to work part-time in a GP 's surgery and if

my knowledge and experience can stop one woman having this, I consider my

job done. In 2008, I had a mesh put in for a minor prolapse, when your

internal pelvic organs dropped a little and sometimes bulge through

the vagina and since then I have had six further operations, one to

remove scar tissue that had built up, and the final operation saved my

life because the mesh had started cutting through the wall of my

bowel. I had holes torn into my vagina, constant pain, Scottish you

around my urethra, I had been made to feel like I was a hypochondriac,

I felt depressed because sex was painful, my ex-husband believed I

was making it up to avoid sex with him, last few years have been awful,

I never knew there were more women suffering. I thought it was just me,

and I was being silly. Some of you smiling at that because some of you

also felt that, initially, didn't you. I had a real job to get my

doctors do believe it was my mesh, and the thing that got me as well,

they kept trying to say it was my back and you can get pain down

there. Actually, when they took it out, when the surgeon who took it

out to it out, it had been implanted incorrectly, had not got into a

space without nerves, was sitting at an angle at the top of my groin and

left leg and had gone into the nerves. I cannot walk proper, I have

lost my job, my house, my partner. I have lost everything through mesh.

That is how I feel. To get the help I have needed... It was a two-year

battle. If I had not found cat and the group, I was lying in a hospital

bed, misdiagnosed, she came on Sky News, my father saw it and said,

this is what you have got, this is you, it is your mesh. Because he

knew that he had -- that I had in it. People come to the Facebook

support campaign to get the information they need to understand

what is wrong with them, I can guarantee you, 99% of women who go

back to surgeons are categorically told it is not it, and they should

not be having to come to a patient support group. I was told that mine

was a neurological overload. Get told so many different diagnoses.

None of them accurate. None of them accurate. After 10am, we will talk

much more. Thank you for giving up your time today. We really

appreciate it, huge response from women and men, partners from around

the country. We will read more of those through the rest of the

programme, worth pointing out, this story came to us from one of our

viewers, who is sitting here, in the audience, from Ayrshire, if you have

a story you want us to cover, do e-mail us. You can read more about

this story on the BBC news site, the most read story at the moment.

Still to come: After Prince Harry revealed he's had counselling to

deal with the grief after the death of his mother, today his brother

William says the british stiff upper lip shouldn't get in the way of

seeking help for mental health issues. How much of a different does

it make when two royals talk openly about these kind of things? Let me

know. A court in the US state of Arkansas

has halted two executions which were due to be carried out

by the end of April, A senior member of North Korea's

government has warned his country is prepared to engage

in what he called all-out war, if the United States

takes military action. says they will conduct

more missile tests. It follows a warning from the US

vice-president, Mike Pence, telling North Korea not

to "test America's resolve." So is there a risk

that the situation could We'll talk about that

in just a moment, but first here's a look

at what we know about This we can speak to a research

associate in Korean studies at the University of London. He thinks

options are now limited their -- and there is a Vista both North and

South Korea. But first, Greg, do you tensions are rising?

We have seen North Korea in the news a lot recently. The regime has not

yet been able to figure out the Trump administration. One could have

anticipated they would not proceed with a nuclear test over the weekend

although they proceeded with a missile test that failed. North

Koreans have left while being overwhelmed by this guerrilla

mentality. The people of North Korea are being told that their

circumstances are so harsh because of external threats, because of

external sanctions, and of course nothing could be further from the

truth. What do you think will happen next?

I think we are going through a phase of high rhetoric on both sides. It

is not just the North Koreans who do not understand what Mr Trump is

doing, many of us don't. He seems to change policies regularly. But we

have been here before. A couple of years back we had declarations of

war from the North Koreans and the movement of American aircraft into

Korean air space. Around the same time of the year, always a tense

time of year because of the exercises and the feeling they have

to react to those exercises. I do not think the North Koreans have

said they will take pre-emptive action, that is a first? On

occasions they have said they are at war with the United States, all with

South Korea, depending on the circumstances. I'm not sure we are

seeing an increase in the North Korean threat. The limitations

imposed by them on technology, how far they have developed things.

Whatever they say I don't think it will necessarily mean a change in

what they do and that matters. Can I ask about the Americans. They say

the strategic patience, President Trump and Mike pence, that strategic

patience is over. What can that mean next for the Americas? I am not sure

what it means. Strategic patience was the term the Obama

administration used for not doing anything very much. It is not really

an option. You need less patience and more strategy and you have not

really got that. John Everard is the former British ambassador in

Pyongyang. What do you think strategic patience from the

Americans being over means? I don't think it means a great deal. I think

the options before President Trump are pretty much the same as options

with which President Obama wrestled and he will probably come to the

same conclusions. We are likely to see an increase in diplomatic and

economic pressure. They will attempt to increase sanctions against North

Korea. Apart from that, probably steady as she goes. What kind of

pressure can the Americans put on China to bring to bear on North

Korea? They can threaten all kinds of things, a trade war, which would

send China into a tailspin, they can threaten a general breakdown in

bilateral relations, but to do either of those things, America

would shoot itself in the foot and the Chinese know that. They know

that the Americans really cannot force them to take actions they do

not want to take. What do you think by happen next? I think for while

we'll have a war of words. The deputy Foreign Minister has entered

into this and I am sure we will see the carrier task force standing off

North Korea for a little while. And that things will go quiet again,

until the North Koreans do as they promise and conduct a sixth nuclear

test. When that happens I think most bets are off. We will have to see

whether the Chinese follow through on the threat, whether to support

economic sanctions, including possibly cutting off North Korea's

oil supplies and how much force there is behind President Trump's

veiled threats to use armed force if there is a further tests.

I can be you more comments about the mesh implant story. This programme

learned more than 800 women are taking legal action against the NHS

and the manufacturers of the implants because of the pain so many

are in. Bella said she had never heard about this. Dave, he says, you

are trailblazers. I knew nothing about this but I do now. We will

talk more after 10am. The top court in Arkansas has halted

two lethal injection executions that were due to start a series of seven

in 11 days. The state's Supreme Court acted

hours before convicted murderers Don Davis and Bruce Ward

were due to die. Their lawyers had argued they were

mentally unfit to face execution However a blanket ruling made

on Saturday that the executions could not go ahead because

the lethal injection causes All seven executions are driven

by the state's desire to use a batch of drugs before it expires

later this month - but it's been condemned by critics

as an inhumane "assembly line". One of the seven, Ledell Lee,

spoke to our Washington correspondent Aleem Macqbool

from prison. We can now speak to Bobby Ampezzan -

managing editor of Joining me is Maya Foa, director

at human rights charity Reprieve. What is the reaction to the fact two

executions have been halted? The reaction is split. Among a certain

set of people in Arkansas, there is probably some delight that the

executions were halted but here in the states poll puts support for the

death penalty upwards of 60%. Many people have taken to social media to

express their delight at the impending executions and how

deserved they are. It is a divisive issue.

From your charity's point of view, presumably you welcomed the two

halted. There is still a long way to go? Absolutely. What we see in the

US is a decline overall for the death penalty and in Arkansas it was

an extraordinary situation, eight scheduled in the space of ten days,

which would have been the largest mass execution since the civil right

ear and it caused consternation across the US, even from those

supporting the death penalty. I think the unseemly haste caused deep

concern. Driven by the desire it would seem to use this drug in the

lethal injection before its sell-by date? That is right and the problem

the Arkansas Department of corrections is facing, and other

departments, is a problem of their making. They want to use medicine

designed to save and improve lives in these executions, which are

designed to end the lives of prisoners. The manufacturers of the

medicines and the health care industry does not want that so they

put controls in place. Our -- Arkansas has tried time and again to

undermine the control systems and now we are seeing a reaction from

the company saying, we do not accept this, this is not what we made them

for, we made medicine to save lives. Bobby, what will happen next? The

other big news today is that the eighth US circuit Court of appeals

in Missouri decided to vacate the lower courts, the federal district

judge's ruling, to put a stay on all of the executions, fast lifting the

kind of I would say this day that most folks thought would...

Certainly it is the most sweeping stay so far. Now it is up to the US

Supreme Court. Whether they uphold the eighth circuit's vacation of the

earlier ruling or whether they will overturn that. And uphold or support

the judge, the Federal District Court judge.

There are charities and human rights groups around the world trying to

stop this happening in Arkansas. What else are you able to do in the

time limit? It will be interesting to watch the next day 's play out.

The choice of the medicine and the case we heard about to play for,

this sedative, rather than an anaesthetic. It is an inappropriate

choice of drug and has caused botched up executions in every state

that has experimented with it, to the point that most have abandoned

it. I will be interested to watch the court process because it is not

a settled question as to whether this is cruel and unusual. We would

save the lethal injection in itself is a cruel form of punishment and

should be abandoned as a failed experiment. Thank you.

We will bring you the latest news and sport in a couple of minutes and

we will talk further about mesh implants after 10am. I have e-mails

from people who got in touch. Alex said why should the minority who

suffer stop the majority from having mesh fitted in the future? Should I

sue the NHS for getting ill when I use statins that I need? Judy said

she was offered this implant yesterday. Harry said he watched the

informative discussion and he knew that if a similar procedure had been

used on men and the outcome similar, they would have been banned years

ago. Carol said she had the operation in 2013 and is still

suffering the effects today. She said she has had the mesh removed.

She said it was eroding into her bladder and the pain was

excruciating, like no other. She said it made her feel unwell and

depressed and she suffered with infections and was limited, lifting,

pulling, stretching, everyday life. She said the day she had the

operation is the day she will regret. She said, I have since had

three operations to correct the damage but I am nowhere near back to

normal. Jena said, I now spend my days in pain. Hashtag disabled.

If you're watching on BBC Two, in a moment World Championship snooker.

so to continue watching our programme turn over

to the BBC News Channel - where coming up in

We'll bring you more on the scandal of vaginal mesh implant -

hearing much more from these women and we'll speak to one surgeon

who says the benefits do outweigh the risks.

Let's get the latest weather update - with Carol.

Good morning. It has been a cold start with frost around.

Temperatures starting to rise and a lot of sunshine. If you are in the

breeze in the south-east, it will feel cold and the cloud will

continue to build. Later we will see spots of rain. That rain will move

further eastwards through the course of the night. Remaining in Northern

Ireland, but it is spots of rain. It means tomorrow there is a fair

bit of sunshine. There will be cloud in the north. You will find through

the course of the day it will break and we will see Sunny spells

developed but still showers flirting with the west. Tomorrow, we are

looking at a similar range. Round about 12-14 Celsius. On Thursday,

some brighter breaks with sunshine and showers. And then the next band

of rain comes into the north-west. Good morning. Welcome to the

programme. This programme has discovered hundreds of women are

skewing the NHS and manufacturers over what they described as barbaric

but final mesh -- vagina mesh implants. I have depression, I have

had to see an emergency counsellor. I am seeing a physiotherapist to

keep my joints moving, because they are seizing up. Because the pain is

so severe. We are joined by a group of women

who have all been affected and their family members, do you think these

mesh implants should be banned on the NHS? Why? I was not warned of

the risks, I only had my operation on the 1st of February, I was not

warned of the risks. It has changed everything I do in my life, I cannot

even attend to my job, I was told it would be four to six weeks off work

and then I could return to my job, it has been since the 1st of

February. What about you? Most definitely they should be banned, it

is like a device from the dark ages and it is not fit for use with the

human body, the body is rejecting the mesh. We will hear more from

those in the studio in the next half hour, the full exclusive story in

the next couple of minutes. If you have had a mesh implants and it has

worked for you, please get in touch. Also, smashing the stigma on mental

health, Vince Williams calls for an end to the stiff upper lip and

releases this video of him chatting with Lady Gaga. How did you find

speaking out and how did it make you feel? -- Prince

you cannot help it if in the morning when you wake up you are so tired,

you are so sad, you are so full of anxiety, but I would wake up telling

myself I should be happy because of the great things I have.

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Cressida Dick said you will

not be crying wolf if her force as to make further spending cuts and

Scotland Yard may have to find new ways to police London if new methods

are available. We have just said Theresa May is going to give what is

described as a surprise statement outside Downing Street interest

under one hour's time, just under 11am, as you can see, some rumours

are that she could be announcing a snap general election. Rumours at

the moment. Theresa May, Prime Minister, we are told will give a

statement outside Downing Street just under an hour's time, some

rumours suggesting Theresa May could be about to announce a snap general

election. We had a general election last year, you may remember... Last

May, 2016. Those are the rumours, obviously, stay with BBC News, we

will bring you the statement live from Downing Street as soon as she

appears on the steps. The Duke of Cambridge has made every

year with Lady Gaga as part of his mental health campaign in which they

discuss her own battle with mental health and urged people to speak up

about how they are feeling, it comes after Prince Harry said that he

sought counselling to come to terms with the death of their mother, the

video was broadcast on Facebook. I feel like we are no longer hiding,

we are starting to talk. People need to feel very normal about mental

health, it is like physical health, everyone has mental health, having a

conversation can make such a difference. The US vice president

Mike Pence has called for more global pressure to be put on North

Korea to rein in nuclear ambitions, speaking in Tokyo where he has

arrived for talks after visiting South Korea. The comments follow a

warning from North Korea that they would carry out a pre-emptive

nuclear strike if there were signs that the US was preparing an attack.

The United States of America believes the time has come for the

international community to use both diplomatic and economic pressure to

bring North Korea to a place that it has avoided successfully now formal

than a generation, and we will not rest and we will not relent until we

achieve the objective of a denuclearise Korean peninsula. An

investigation by this programme has found that more than 800 UK women

are taking legal action against the NHS and the makers of vaginal mesh

implants. The implants are used to treat pelvic organ prolapse and

incontinence after childbirth, but some can cut into the joiner.

It can cause severe discomfort. Some women have been left in permanent

pain, unable to walk, work or have sex. One woman, Bonita Barrett, gave

Victoria emotional testimony this morning, on the effect it had had on

her life. I had what felt like a block of ice attached to my

buttocks, constant pain, almost like torture, the elastic band feeling

had turned to almost an acid, a fire in my nerves, it got stronger over

the two years. Now I am on as many tramadol as I am allowed to take all

stop I am getting this barbaric torture item removed.

Britain's most senior police officer, Cressida Dick,

has been speaking about her new role as Metropolitan Police Commissioner.

She's told the BBC this morning that the fight against knife and gun

crime will define her time in the job.

She's said she would be prepared to support the increased use

of controversial stop and search powers to tackle the problem.

Ministers are to set out new proposals to speed up appeals

by foreign criminals and failed asylum seekers held in detention.

A previous fast-track scheme was scrapped 2 years ago

after the Court of Appeal ruled it unlawful.

Officials say that, if implemented, the system could speed up around

The supreme court in the American state of Arkansas has halted two

executions which were due to have been the first of seven to be

carried out before the end of the month.

Lawyers for the two convicted murderers had raised questions

The Arkansas government said it would seek an immediate review.

Its supply of one of the drugs used in the lethal injections will expire

Rumours are that Theresa May is going to call a snap general

election. Those are rumours at the moment, we will presumably get

confirmation when she actually speaks, when she gives her statement

at Downing Street, there are one or two things in the way of calling a

snap general election, not least the fixed terms Parliament act, which

MPs voted for not long ago, which allows a general election every five

years, I think they could overcome that if there was support from

opposition parties. One or two hurdles in the way. If that is what

the Prime Minister is going to announce. We are going to watch the

statement live. Sport: breaking sports news from

this morning, Birmingham city have appointed Harry Redknapp is the new

manager, the former West Ham United, Tottenham Hotspur and QPR boss

succeeds Gianfranco Zola, who resigned yesterday following defeat

against Burton, 70 years old now, he took charge of Jordan for two World

Cup qualifiers and has advised Derby County last season recently.

Birmingham are 20th in the championship, three points above the

rural gay and zone, facing rivals Aston Villa on Saturday. -- three

points above the relegation zone. Right be playing top-flight football

for the first time in 32 years this season -- next season, they secured

a place in the Premier League after a victory yesterday 2-1, almost 20

years to the day from when they were 20 minutes from dropping out of the

football league, they have been forced to play matches 70 miles

away, in Chillingham, and by home games at a converted athletics

stadium. Arsenal kept alive their top four hopes, with a 2-1 victory

at second bottom Middlesbrough, this brilliance free kick from Alexis

Sanchez gave them the lead, Middlesbrough levelled when Alvaro

Negredo volleyed in the cross. Arsenal are up to six, seven points

behind fourth placed Manchester City with a game in hand, Middlesbrough

remain in deep relegation trouble, six points from safety. Mesut Ozil

scored Arsenal's winner. Will this be a snap general

election?! Wish I could tell you one way or the other full. Highly

unusual and semi-ways, normally when we get these big moments there is

plenty of advance briefing. -- one way or the other. Really, we know

nothing beyond the factories in May will be making a statement in

Downing Street around 11:15am. Prime Minister only makes Downing Street

statement is when it is something pretty significant, it is either, it

is either a moment that can be a response to a terrorist attack,

David Cameron did a view in his "Brexit" negotiations, at key

moments it can be resignation statements, election statements, it

can be personal statements, we do not know. If you go through the

options, personal statement, obviously, Theresa May suffers from

diabetes but she looks very healthy, she has been jetting around all over

the place and does not really seem to be a prospect of a health issue.

Foreign policy moment, it is hard to see how we would get embroiled in

Syria, let alone career, no sense of anything building up. Cabinet is

going on now, so Theresa May is briefing her cabinet on the

statement, and inevitably, there is chitchat about could it possibly be

an early election. The big no-no for that is Theresa May and number ten

have been absolutely clear, throughout recent weeks and months,

she will not go for an early election, she will stick it through

to 2020, again and again they have rebuffed that idea, but if she were

to go for an early election, with the Labour Party in real

difficulties, would she care that she had gone back on her word if she

won a massive majority, would that bother her? The political advantages

would be enormous, assuming she won by a hefty margin, which seems

possible, a lead of more than 20 points over Jeremy Corbyn. This

could give the country the mandate to pursue "Brexit" negotiations,

they will not kick in until late in the autumn, a narrow window here,

also giving her a mandate to pursue her own agenda, not David Cameron's,

ditching stuff she does not like. Perhaps that commitment to give 0.7%

in overseas aid may go out the window, a whole load of things

become possible. Extraordinary big bold move. In terms of timing, we

have the main local elections, only two weeks away, so... I'm not sure

if there is a legal time frame by which you have to give notice before

you can call an election, only two weeks until the local elections,

which would seem the fears points to go for, it would have to be

somewhere later down the line, this is speculation, I do not know,

haven't the faintest idea what she will say, beyond, it will be

something big. Cannot wait, thank you very much. I did say earlier

that the last general election was last year, of course, 2015, echoes

of the fixed term Parliament act, it was 2015. We have a group of voters

in all over the country, I will throw you this curveball. -- because

of the fixed term Parliament act. What do you think of a snap general

election? Stand. A good idea. "Brexit", everything else, all these

legal cases, it would give a clear mandate if that is what she is

doing. I hope she's not coming out to say that she has had mesh fitted,

otherwise we need to head over to Downing Street(!) LAUGHTER

Lets talk more about mesh, with the audience here today.

This morning: the women who say a simple NHS procedure has

ruined their lives - leaving them registered disabled,

in permanent pain, unable to walk, work or have sex.

All of these women have had a vaginal mesh implant to treat

It's meant to act as a hammock to hold up the pelvic organs

or the uretha in the case of bladder incontinence.

In an exclusive report this programme has learnt that hundreds

of women are taking legal action against the NHS and manufacturers

for failing to warn them of the potential risks.

It could end up costing the NHS tens of millions of pounds.

It's used when women have a prolapse, or bladder incontinence,

It is often made from polypropylene, that's the same material used to

For most women, mesh implants work, but

around one in 11 experienced problems when they disintegrate or

erode, leaving some in permanent pain, unable to work or have sex.

Over the last five years, I counted, I have heard 53 admissions because I

am in agonising pain. My husband has turned into my carer, he is so much

less of my husband. We cannot have sex. We have not had sex for four

and a half years. Now we have learned that more than 800 women are

taking legal action against the NHS and the manufacturers over the

implant, some want to see them banned completely on the NHS. It is

a device of torture. One the procedure banned, I want the

material banned. Do you believe the NHS should stop using these

measures? I do believe they should stop using these measures. Here, you

should be saying, honestly, we are able to tell you, here is a device,

here is the benefit, here is the long-term harm, if you cannot say

that, you should not make it available.

If the MHRA believes the benefits outweigh the risks. Doctor Mark

Slack is a surgeon who carries out some types of procedures. I have

sympathy for a patient who has severe pain.

Is it worth it? Not for that group. Is it worth it for all patients? It

is difficult to say. A recent ruling in Scotland said mesh implants

should not be routinely used for prolapse. Critics called it a

whitewash. A review is under way in England and Wales. Compensation

could cause the NHS -- cost the NHS. I have no control over my bladder. I

will not leave the house until I know my bowel is OK. What is the

impact on you? I have extensive nerve damage in my leg, my foot, I

have double incontinence with bowel and bladder. I have depression. I

have had to go and seek an emergency counsellor. I have fibromyalgia. I

never thought that having a 40 minute procedure, twice, would be

this devastating. I just didn't. As you'd expect, we asked Johnson

and Johnson, Ethicon, the NHS, the Department of Health in England

and in Scotland and the regulatory body the MHRA for interviews -

they all said no. But in a statement Ethicon told us

"these devices have helped millions of women suffering from stress

urinary incontinence They say they no longer market them

for prolapse. On that leaked email they said taken

out of context it could be And they say they'll vigorously

defend litigation claims. And indeed they have defended those

claims successfully in the US. The MHRA told us they're "committed

to helping address the serious concerns raised by some patients"

and that "the greater proportion of the clinical community

and patients support the use of these devices in the UK

for treatment of the distressing conditions of incontinence

and organ prolapse." With us here a group of women

who've all been affected Plus Dr Mark Slack a Consultant

Gynaecologist and Urogynaecologist and who carries out some

types of mesh implants. Labour MP Owen Smith,

who is planning to hold Sarah Jane Richards, a solicitor,

who is representing some How bad was it to have bladder

incontinence, or a prolapse? Described to the audience watching

what that was like. Nancy. For me, after having my two children, I

could no longer do normal things such as go running, playing on the

trampoline. So I went to the doctor and they advised tests. I had that

done. I still had problems. I had medication to try, that did not

help. They said the 20 minute operation would change my life for

the better. You regret it? Yes. Why? I was not informed fully of the

risks. I am on the list to get removal, which will be partial

removal because of the type of mesh I have. When you showed us the kit

earlier, that is the first time I had seen one. You mean this, the

trocars and the mesh? Yes. And to think that is in my body. Does it

sound familiar to others here. That effectively you are told, pop it in,

20 minutes, your life will be different? Does that sound familiar?

I was told it was the best thing since sliced bread, it would change

my life for the better. It is changed it, it is so not better. It

has changed completely. Was it implanted for a prolapse? When the

internal pelvic organs drop, or incontinence? Both, really, because

I was older. And the impact on you? John is my carer now. I can shop. I

can drive short distances. I used to drive all over the country without

any pain. John? I pick up the pieces now and where it hurts is things

like grandchildren. She cannot pick them up any more. How do you explain

that to a three-year-old? We were not told there were other options.

We were not told anything about the possible impact when it goes wrong

and when it does go wrong and it seems to me even when you have it

reversed you still have all the constant pain. You cannot get rid of

it. Once you have had it, it is too late. And research. I do not think

the medical profession have done enough research, either before they

started using the things, all the impact afterwards. They really don't

know how many it affects and in what way. This is why I think it should

be stopped. Claire, for the audience, would you mind showing

them what is called a bowel irrigation system, which you have to

use in order to MP -- to empty your bladder and bowel. My pelvic floor

dysfunction is nil. There is nothing left any more, it is dead. Because

of the implant? Yes. My bowel does not function on its own. You put

tubes together and this is filled with warm water. And then you

inflate. There is a catheter and you inflate the balloon on the catheter

and put it up your back passage and slowly filled with warm water to

irrigate your bowel so it could empty. You have to do that before

you leave the house? Yes. What do you think about the fact you are in

that position? I think it is totally disgusting. It was a gold standard

procedure that would change my life for the better and my life has been

destroyed. By the mesh. Anne-Marie, would you agree? Definitely. I am

waiting. I was to get that system on the 9th of March but on the 7th of

March I got a phone call telling me I had been discussed at a meeting

and they wanted me to try another drug for my bowel before they would

give me that. We just seem to have to jump through hoops. When we

present GPs with the problems we have got, they don't know. I have

been tested for lupus, MS, they told me I have fibromyalgia. I have

problems with my liver, my kidneys, because of the medication I am on.

This morning I had 40 mg of one drug, 150 mg of another and I have

three patches on my back and side which releases an anaesthetic. You

wear rich 12 hours. It is actually painful for you to sit down. Stand

up whenever you need to. You have been this morning. My day consists

of getting up in the morning, I watched the Victoria show and have a

bite to eat. When I watch you I stand against the wall. And you have

your crutches. I have my stick. I have a mobility scooter. I have two

dogs. I take them out on my mobility scooter. I have a three wheeler if I

go shopping. It is horrendous. Totally dismissed in the NHS. Let me

bring in our doctor. When you look at some of the women here, do you

still say it is worth it? In no way am I going to try to trivialise what

is clearly major disability these patients are suffering, and a life

changing event. As a result of their surgery. Please forgive me if at any

point in the conversation it would seem I am not taking that seriously,

because it concerns us deeply about any patient operated on,

irrespective of the category of surgery we are doing. I occupy a

funny position because I have litigated against the pharmaceutical

companies in the US at considerable reputational risk to myself about

things I believe they have not done correctly. The third problem is we

are talking about mesh, or an incontinence operation as a single

procedure. There are 100 different meshes and 150 different operations.

There are ten, 15 different ways of doing the operations. Even knowing

all that, with people who use wheelchairs and registered disabled

and have crutches to walk, is it worth it? Can you say to these women

it is worth it? I am not going to pick out these women as individuals

who are disabled and troubled. We are individuals. Sure. I cannot

afford to patronise all patients and they have the right to make a

decision based on objective and clear outcomes. Why I introduced the

concept of differences in operations, some are all worth

associated with high complication rates and others with low ones. The

traditional surgery that does not have mesh in them also have major

complications, short and long-term. 8-10% of patients in the US who have

undergone surgery without mesh are still taking opiate analgesia,

strong painkillers, 12 months after surgery. I understand. I am not sure

that is consolation. Everybody understands undertaking surgery is a

risk. Some of you said the risks... Everybody understands surgery risk,

the risk of the implant. We were not informed fully, how wrong it can go

when it goes wrong. One of the big challenges in

medicine generally is the provision of appropriate data, listening to

patients carefully and coming to a joint decision-making process. It is

not up to doctors to make the decision for patients, it is for us

to inform them and patients to make a decision for themselves. I had a

lack of information. If I had been told there were alternatives I would

have taken it than have this poison in my body. Surgeons are not fully

informing people of the risks. You defend mesh. Last summer you were at

a conference and he blatantly said people will look back on mesh

implants as one of the darkest days in within's medical history. I wrote

about that. Here you are today on the film saying you would implant a

mesh into your wife. With these mesh operations you are inserting

polypropylene plastic will stop using hoax. They look like Butcher's

hooks. At the beginning of this year, the American watchdog body

said the risks of those hooks can cause injuries in up to 40% of women

having mesh and also for women having mesh for incontinence. There

was a report by a surgeon in a leading journal. That shows this

plastic mesh can shrink and there are complications it up to 15% of

surgeries. Nobody knows the true risk of the scale and we are

suffering in a simple 20 minute operation. We should have been fully

informed of the risks and we have not been. These are the trocar. I am

William from Scotland and I am Nancy's husband. The point I wanted

to make, when Nancy had the procedure, and the complications

started, at some point after, it was not immediate, there were some

complications straightaway, but the big painful episodes she has,

controlled with, what is it, tramadol. It knocks her out

sometimes 18 hours a day and we have a young family. They do not see her

because she is sleeping. My point before that is there seems to be a

reluctance from doctors and GPs and professionals these ladies go to to

even suggest there might be a link to the mesh and these symptoms. Owen

Smith, one in 11 go wrong. Is that a risk worth taking? Not for those

women. My view is the reason I want to bring it to Parliament, we have

not had a debate. I am here because you have a constituent in the

audience whose life has been transformed for the worse by the

operation. It is clear to me there is an emerging problem. It is clear

to me the effects for the women that get adverse effects are crippling,

with chronic pain. I think there needs to be greater investigation.

There is a good case for saying suspend its use until there is

clarity about the scale of the problems and there is definitely

evidence to suggest we should speed up investigation.

and definitely, evidence to suggest we should speed up investigation,

why has it taken so long to get up new guidelines, why is there not a

registry established, to get the data we need, we know that some of

these things are in the pipeline, it has taken an awful long time, in the

meantime, women living with awful complications. Are you saying they

should be banned? I am not a clinician so it is not for me to say

that but as a layperson, albeit somebody who has worked for

pharmaceutical companies in the past, as a layperson, my review of

the evidence, I have read a lot about it, suggest there is growing

evidence to suggest it is a problem, a growing number of women are coming

forward, the nature of the adverse events they are suffering are really

profound, the last study I read, one in ten women is having the source of

problems post surgery, and it says... It begs questions about

whether this is a safe procedure, it is a minority but it is a

significant minority, their voice needs to be heard, I pay tribute to

all of the women who have raised this issue, they have to break

through quite a lot of their defensive barriers from a clinical

community about this, but they are breaking through it. The NHS in

England has already paid out ?484,000 in damages. Sarah Jane

Richards, you are representing some of the women taking legal action,

some of this has been successful for your clients in the past, what did

the pay-out range between? First of all, the pay-out is not reflect the

pain, suffering, and loss of capacity. The money you have spent,

either in losses, or in trying to get back to the position you are in,

from... From what to what? The range over all can be anything between

?25,000 up to ?500,000. Half ?1 million to one person, awarded to

one person but I will very quickly say that the element of the pain,

the suffering and the loss of immunity is generally very small.

What increases the damage is the financial loss but people have

incurred, somebody who has lost employment will have a higher award,

because there are special damages will be higher. The pain suffering

award is generally low. I have a leaflet which talks about some of

the risks, how many of you were told that this was permanent? Only two...

What are the disadvantages of a permanent mesh? There are

disadvantages... Really, the material can become infected, or

recognised by the body as foreign and be rejected. Scar tissue can

form around the mesh. Scar tissue... Could you find it, it is on there...

Scar tissue could form around the mesh, making it stiffer and causing

pain, especially during intercourse, over time, the mesh can wear through

the tissues, so that it pokes through the vaginal skin and less

common leaf through the wall of the urethra, bladder or bowel, this is

called erosion. You are shaking your head. -- less common link. -- --

commonly. Did it talk about erosion? Coming stiffer? The plastic becoming

harder? It's talked about one in 50 experiencing pain in their legs, it

was very much glossed over, it was a PSU G leaflet that I was given

discussing the fact that it is a sling or tape and everything is

going to be wonderful, does not discuss the fact that you will be in

pain afterwards, or that that could be a side-effect. It discusses the

post surgery pain but does not discuss the option of living with

pain for the rest of your life. I think that if you gave that to any

woman, they would say... They would say no... No woman in their right

mind would say, I am happy, I will have that. I was told it was a

permanent implant, and I was not told it was mesh, I was told it was

a tape, part of a prolapse repair, popped in as part of the operation.

We will pop it in at the same time as repairing your prolapse. As I

say, I was not told anything much about it, the usual anaesthetic

risks, and my pain began, really, about four months after the

operation, I expected pain after the operation but instead of getting

better, I was getting worse, went back to my consultant, who shook his

set and said, you are about to be the first person to suffer with

this. He said that, he said, are you about to be the first of my patients

to suffer with a complication? Those words we use to use, and yet most

women are saying... I was described as weird and wonderful by my

surgeon, and you told me, I had looked on the Internet, I had no

idea it was mesh until August, thank goodness for the patient support

groups I found in 2010, that informed me I was not the only one,

I had to do all of my own research. He told me I was reading too much on

the Internet and reading the pain into me. By November I was in

excruciating pain, lives turned upside down, my husband had to take

over a lot of the household jobs that we had to do. By December, I

was seeking the advice privately of another surgeon will stop having to

travel over 160 miles to find that. -- I was seeking the advice

privately of another surgeon. A lot of people are getting in touch with

us privately, and I keep saying it because it is true. It has been

pointed out. Millions of women have this procedure, one of the many

different types of mesh implants out there and it works for them, what is

your advice to anyone watching now he might be worried, might be

anxious? Patients come to us in my unit we provide all of the

options, which is a TV to base operation, and it is up to us to

give them the information for the patient to make the decision, I

don't want to patronise my patients, I don't want to be in a situation of

saying, I don't have an operation for you, I am not going to give you

the TVT. Slings have serious consequences in a small percentage

of people. I was not even offered, I was told, this is what you are

getting, this is what we are doing. They never gave me the choices. I

don't think that's correct. We were not given that choice. A lot of our

discussion here, which is why I value people like yourself, who are

willing to come forward and have a say about where you have been and

what you have experience, a lot of what we need to do in medicine, I

have to sit in the middle somewhere, I have sued pharmaceutical companies

and also defended patients and defended certain operations which I

think are good on the basis that I want people to get better. I want

people to experience as few complications as possible. It is up

to me... A person... 79% risk of getting a wind infection... 56% of

those will have to go back to hospital to have it treated, people

have second procedures in up to 30% of these for prolapse, these are

serious secondary interventions. What we are suffering now is

serious. We are suffering the adverse reactions, there is no

testing beforehand, you don't know. There is people that don't read

newspapers, don't watch the news, ladies will come out of the

woodwork, and men, for hernia mesh is. If people undergo surgery, there

is a risk of developing neuropathic pain, even without a mesh. If we cut

the skin, cut tissue, you can get neuropathic pain. Ongoing, lifelong

pain, as a consequence of surgery not involving mesh. I will pause

there. Owen Smith, final word to you, you are raising this in

Parliament with the hope of doing what? Getting the clinical community

to look much harder at this, I think there is emerging evidence that this

is a much bigger problem than people have appreciated, as ladies have

said, there is clearly long-term serious consequences when it goes

wrong, some women, the majority of women, it does not appear to go

wrong, when it goes wrong, it goes wrong with catastrophic

consequences, that requires much greater scrutiny and parliament is

one place to start. Thank you all very much. Quick word. This mesh is

put in blindly by surgeons, am I right in believing that? That is

what I have read. Mine was put in blindly, and it was not put in the

right position, how about all the women who are in that, so yes, it is

not just nerve pain, it is actually damaging nerves. Correct. I am often

in a wheelchair, I have lost my job and my house, a lot of us women, I

met some lovely women here, we are all in very similar position, we

have had to fight every step of the way to try to get GPs even to

listen. It could just be this, it is a bit of scar tissue, well, scar

tissue, when you have something stuck at an angle... Surgical

compensation as potentially an inept surgeon or undertrained surgeon,

which I accept. That would Kid good, yes. What I'm going to

stop you there, I want to thank you for making the money mental effort

to get here, thank you so much, thank you, all of you, for coming on

the programme here today, and for talking about some really personal

things and we appreciate your honesty and openness.

At the end of the day, the manufacturers, profit, before

anybody else. APPLAUSE For details on organisations that

offer advice and support, go to the BBC website. While Owen Smith is

here, as a Labour MP, the big breaking news, there is speculation

over why a Theresa May the Prime Minister is about to give a

statement just after 11am on the steps of Downing Street, could it be

a snap general election? I have heard nothing about it, came to

discuss something far more important, the plight of the women

in this audience. I've no idea what Theresa May is going to do. As a

Labour politician, would you welcome a snap general election? Always look

forward to general elections, they are a lot of fun stop what we will

be live to Downing Street in just a moment but first, Vicky Yeung, what

is the latest? -- they are a lot of fun. As you know, Westminster likes

nothing more than a bit of speculation, number one on the list

has got to be the possibility of a snap general election, even though

Theresa May has a constantly she would not have an early general

election, you can see why she may well be tempted, looking at the

polls, Labour in all sorts of trouble, she has a very small

majority, causing the problems, and the temptation must be absolutely

huge for her. There are other possibilities, it could be an

announcement about Northern Ireland, direct rule, could it be a

resignation on health grounds, another possibility, or a foreign

policy announcement, all of those possible. The reason this is so

unusual is because Prime Ministers do not often come out into Downing

Street and get behind the lectern reserved for very big significant

announcements, and the other thing which is unusual here is that there

has notably net -- there has not been any pre-briefing, often the

Prime Minister will come out and talk about foreign policy and there

will be a pre-briefing but we have not had anything like that, Downing

Street will know that they are speculating about the possibility of

a general election. We do have the fixed term Parliament act, the next

election is set for 2020 and not before but there are ways around

that, Theresa May could strike to ask parliament to vote for it, two

thirds of MPs would have to do that, that would be 434 MPs, Labour

sources close to Jeremy Corbyn have said in the last few weeks they

would vote for a general election, the other option for Theresa May is

to try to get a no-confidence vote in her own government, which would

be pretty unusual, she would not relish doing it that way but that is

the other possibility, she could also overturn the legislation which

has fixed term Parliament set in it but that could be pretty lengthy,

might run into trouble in the House of Lords. There are ways that she

can do it, the issue is whether she wants to do it or not. Up to now, as

you know, she is a very cautious politician, people have wondered why

she would not be tempted by this. Polls suggesting the Tory party

would be 20 points ahead of Labour, must make it feel to her like a good

option, the earliest date it could be, if she were to say today that

she wants to do this, May 20 five. There has been speculation that it

could be the same day as local elections at the beginning of May,

too late for that to happen now. -- May 25. They may lose to the Deborah

Democrats in some areas but they would hope to gain an awful lot from

Labour, they feel Jeremy Corbyn is leading the Labour Party in a way

that would help the Tories. -- Liberal Democrats. She must be

buoyed when she looks at the polls and suggests she could get a

landslide victory in a general election. The downside, she has said

very clearly, only a few weeks ago her official spokesman said it was

not going to happen, this idea of an early election, she would have to go

back on that, but within just a few hours of this happening, people will

have forgotten about that, the only question, whether voters have

fatigue, if they have voted recently, only two years ago, the

general election, which David Cameron won, and the referendum.

"Brexit" is also relevant here, it is going to be a very tough couple

of years for Theresa May and I think to have a much bigger majority in

the House of Commons would really help her. She has run into trouble

over the legislation and other policies recently, it is of course

much easier to govern if you have a large number of MPs on your side and

she may wish to get her own mandate, her own mandate, because it was

David Cameron that won the last general election.

Norman Smith is in Downing Street. What will voters think if she is

calling a snap election to boost her majority in a Commons? It is a

gamble. She made take the view she is more powerful Malbay and she is

ever going to be and may look back to Gordon Brown, who hesitated about

going for it and bottled it and he had the slow years of drudgery down

to election defeat. She might take the view it will never get any

better, now is the time. She surprised us. She has been a bold

Prime Minister. We thought of her as cautious, who never really does

anything out of the ordinary and blow me down, she gets rid of the

camera people, ploughs full steam ahead with Brexit and continually

surprises us. If she went to the snap election, if you look at what's

behind me. One Burson has sent a message to say it does not have the

government logo on it so it will be a Conservative Party announcement,

does that mean it will be a general election? I have no idea. I feel

like the faulty Towers -- Fawlty Towers episode with Manuel saying, I

know nothing. I know nothing. It is not Larry the cat. Word was going

round something had happened. That would get people down here. We have

had an hour since the news came out and an early election would have

made sense three weeks ago. With local elections and the by-election

in Manchester in three weeks it does not make sense because she cannot

just call a snap election. It has to go through Parliament. The ball will

not start rolling at least another week. People speculating she is

unwell. She did not look it at the weekend and though one wishes that.

Some say Northern Ireland, but why not make a statement to Parliament?

We do not know, unless it is something to do with foreign policy.

Goings-on with Korea and America. Maybe a change of position that

cannot wait until this afternoon in the Commons. Maybe she will make a

view about the Lions rugby squad which is being announced today. Most

of the journalists, there is a sense the other options outside of an

election, they look unlikely. The mood is an election seems to be the

front running option. She has no better time. She has had two polls

with a 21 point lead. She has had 18, 17 point lead is the last few

weeks. It does not make sense to do it now but in the absence of

anything else all we can talk about is an early election. We had Cabinet

this morning at 8:30am. They are still in there. I know from standing

outside Cabinet, they usually packing within an hour, our and a

half. No one has left the room. You have not had shots of them

disappearing. The e-mail came from Downing Street said there would be a

lobby briefing post-Cabinet at midday, suggesting it was a normal

day. All I can say is anticipation is growing, the crowd is building,

tourists are gathering behind us. We will find out at 11:15am. It is

extraordinary. The times we live in politically are extraordinary with

Brexit, Donald Trump, Theresa May, Boris. We have become used to

momentous moments. Nothing is predictable any more. Writing

political satire it's hard to satirise what is going on because of

what is actually happening. We have three hours after the announcement

before the common sit and... I have to stop you there. Vicki Young. I

think you are outside Westminster? It is me in the studio. I just

wanted to ask if it is about a quick general election, what would it mean

for the opposition parties, particularly Labour? You would have

to say it does not look great. We had polls over the weekend

suggesting they were 21 points behind. You are going back to the

darkest days of Michael foot to come up with anything like that. They

talk a good game and have been rolling out policies but nobody is

under any illusion they face a titanic task. Go back before recess

with the by-election in Copeland, when Theresa May won a seat she

should never have won from Labour. That may have led her to the view

that this is the moment, I cannot do any better, I am winning Labour

seats in government, go for it. Plenty of people in Tory ranks have

said get on with it. William Hague, he takes the role of outsider, who

is incredibly plugged in. The other day he wrote a long article saying,

really, I think you ought to look seriously at an early election

because the advantages are significant. Remember, she was

pretty emphatic about not having a quick general election, not going

for it, because she said it was not in the national interest. Going back

on her word, that is not good for any politician. There are real

problems here. This is a woman who has built her reputation on being

steady, dependable, reliable, to just chuck out of the window her

previous promises not to cut and run but go the full distance, yes, you

could say it would do damage, but you think this woman campaigned for

Remain. She is now Mrs Brexit. She managed to get round that. History

tells us winner takes all. If she holds an election and wins a big

majority, don't expect many colleagues to say, you should not

have broken your promise. They will not care. It would provide clarity

and certainty and provide her with that mandate and it would be the

Brexit election and she might argue, it enables me to go into

negotiations, to go eyeball to eyeball with Michel Barnier and the

others and say, I have the country behind me, I have won mandate, do

not mess me. It strengthens her hand. Maybe she will go for it. We

do not know, let's make that clear. We do not know what she will say.

Some speculation that she could be resigning. If, if that were the

case, what might she be resigning over? I cannot believe I am asking

these questions but we are in the realms of speculation. Resignation,

general election or military deployment, we are in. She looks as

fit as a fiddle. She has been round and about, she has been an America,

she has been in Saudi Arabia, Turkey. Continually on her travels.

I am always amazed, physically, she is up for it. We know she has type 1

diabetes and has to have two insulin jabs per day. Looking at her, she

probably thrives on it. She seems to have grown in self-confidence. She

does not look ill to me. You do not know. People'sprivate health

situation. From what I have seen she looks OK. What would happen, there

would be a caretaker Prime Minister and then I imagine a leadership

contest in the Tory party, another one. Does that bring Boris Johnson

back into the frame? I have no idea. We are in the Outer Himalayas of

speculation land. Technically it would be a leadership contest and

then you would have to ask what mandate that person had. Could you

have another Tory leader without a selection? You are getting so far

away from David Cameron's election victory. What about the military

deployment speculation? I think that is doubtful. If you look at

conflicts where we might deploy. Syria, the government has been clear

we are not putting boots on the ground. Parliament voted against air

strikes in Syria. Following the recent cruise missile attack on

President Assad, Michael Fannon and everyone went out of their way to

look for a political solution. I do not get a sense there is an appetite

to be involved in a military solution. North Korea is on the

other side of the world and not what we would get involved with. Some

sort of renewed operation against IS in Iraq? I do not know that would

need a statement here, surely it would be a House of Commons

statement. Our colleague Laura Kuenssberg is saying one source, not

confirmed, speculation that a general election will be called on

June the 8th. OK. That is quite conceivable. June the 8th, am I

right in thinking it was the day of the referendum last year? No, that

was June the 23rd. I am sorry, I thought there was something

symbolic... That is possible. She cannot do it in time for the May

elections. She could go for an early summer snap election. Reuters are

also saying that. We will find out soon because she will be coming out.

We will hear it from Theresa May herself. Thanks, Norman. Theresa May

live on BBC News at 11:15am. Thanks for your company. Back tomorrow at

9am.