03/05/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


03/05/2017

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Hello. It's Wednesday.

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It's 9am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

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Strong and stable leadership. Strong and stable Government. Strok and

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stable leadership. Strong and stable leadership. Strong and stable

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Government. Strong and stable leadership.

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The general election campaign gets underway today meaning some

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of you are going to hear plenty more of those mantras over

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Whilst others may never get to hear them.

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REPORTER: Are you aware there is a general election in June? No. They

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will still mess up the country. The political parties are out

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in full campaigning force The Tories are warning that voters

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face a tax bombshell if Jeremy Corbyn wins. Labour say that's a lie

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and pledge to halt Tory moves to downgrade accident and emergency

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departments. Plenty more coverage

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throughout the programme. Plus Portuguese Detectives have told

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the BBC they never believed Madeleine McCann was taken

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during a burglary which went wrong. It's ten years since

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the three-year-old disappeared. And claims that rules which limit

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the amount of time people can spend on bail won't actually

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make any difference. You feel like you've had a crime

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done to you by the State and there is no one to answer for it. And no

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apology. That full exclusive

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report before 10am. Hello and welcome to the programme.

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We're live until 11am. Throughout the morning,

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the latest breaking news A little later, we'll speak to some

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of the men in this photo. The 14 men all students

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at Cambridge University have got together to prove that young black

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men can go to Cambridge. They were admitted in 2015 and they

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say it was hard, but if we did it, you can too.

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Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning.

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Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and if you text, you will be charged

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The EU will announce their plans for the Brexit talks this morning

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and there are signs that Brussels may demand a much higher divorce

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One newspaper reckons we may face demands for as much

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Countries including France, Germany and Poland are said to have

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Let's speak to our politics guru, Norman Smith, in Westminster.

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How far apart are Britain and the EU 27? Well, what we are seeing, it is

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like when you get two heavyweight boxers at a weigh-in going eyeball

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to eyeball, there is a lot of muscle flexing and public posturing. We had

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yesterday Theresa May warning she is going to be a bloody difficult woman

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and now, we have the EU hitting back with reports that they could demand

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we pay 100 billion euros to leave the EU. This follows work done by

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the FT journalist today in which they say the EU Brexit bill could

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run to 100 billion euros. The French and the Poles are saying we would

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like Britain to pay some of our farm subsidies into the future. You get a

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sense that both sides are trying to position each other to try and play

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tough. In a way, that's for domestic consumption. Theresa May know it is

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looks good it present herself as a strong leaderment how many times

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have we heard her going on about that? There is a view that David

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Cameron got rolled over when he went into the negotiations because he was

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a bit too amenable and too co-operative and it makes sense to

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play hard ball. The risk, of course, if Mrs May doesn't live up to the

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sort of bloody difficult woman language then she'll be seen and

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accused of having backed down, of having bottled it. So there are

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risks in this strategy, albeit this morning the Brexit secretary David

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Davis was adamant we're not going to be paying 100 billion pounds. They

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have offered ?50 billion, ?60 billion, ?100 billion, we have not

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been given an official number. REPORTER: We could be paying ?100

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billion? No, that's not the case. We've come to the end of paying vast

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sums of money every year to the European Union.

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David Davis the Brexit secretary. So what are the parties up to today? It

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is a retro election day today because from the Conservatives we

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get a tax bombshell dossier. I'm old enough to remember successive

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elections when the Conservatives have repeatedly produced tax

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bombshell dossiers, the first person to do it was John Major in 1992,

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today we get another tax bombshell dossier where Labour have got

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unfunded spending commitments which will cost the taxpayer ?45 billion.

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Labour are furious and say it's lies, their word, a lot of these

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so-called spending commitments are not actually party policy, but they

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have been having their own sort of retro election today by going back

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to Labour's favoured theme, namely the NHS, saying they would tear up

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these plans which hospital trusts have been asked to come up with

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basically to pair back on money, but which could mean A departments

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being downgraded and they say they'd rip them up and start over again. We

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have the Tories going on about the tax bombshell and Labour going on

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about save our NHS. Kind a retro of election. And just how old are you,

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Norman, just out of interest? Getting close towards 60! Never!

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Never! Never! Get out of here. No way! More from Norman through the

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morning and through the next few weeks as we head to that general

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election. Joanna is in the newsroom.

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Political parties are taking to the streets in the last day

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of campaigning ahead of tomorrow's local elections.

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Nearly five thousand council seats are up

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for grabs across England, Wales and Scotland.

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The poll will give voters a chance to deliver their verdicts

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on the main parties before the general election next month.

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There are also eight mayoral elections.

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Today marks ten years since the disappearance

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The BBC's Panorama programme has learnt that Portuguese detectives

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never believed the main British police theory that the toddler was

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The three-year-old went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da

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Despite extensive international inquiries, no firm leads have been

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found and the investigations remain open.

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Ten years since everything changed here.

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Ten years since a little girl vanished on a holiday

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It's unbelievable that nothing, there has been nothing.

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They haven't found the child, they haven't found anything.

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Jenny Murat remembers it like it was yesterday.

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She only lives a few yards from the block

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Back then she set up a stall outside, appealing for information.

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She never imagined that the case would still be unsolved a decade on.

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This comes into my mind every day. Every single day.

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Everything you look at and you see all around you is...

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It connects somehow to the fact that a little girl disappeared.

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This week it has been claimed that on the night Madeleine disappeared

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a mystery woman was seen outside the family's apartment.

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Jenny told me she saw this woman who is now reported

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to be a significant part of the investigation.

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I noticed her and she kind of looked as if she was trying to hide.

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I do remember that she was wearing a plum coloured top.

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For the first time, Jenny has also told us

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about a car she saw that night speeding towards the McCann's

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apartment, heading the wrong way down a one-way street.

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It was one of the small cars, like a rental car, the normal

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We just looked at each other and I think he had a very

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Ten years of unprecedented publicity.

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Ten years of appeals, but no answers.

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It has had a huge impact on my personality...

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Jenny's son Robert was to be named a suspect in the case.

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A decade on, his name may have been cleared, but he still cannot

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The internet is full of theories. I'd like to know the truth.

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I'd like to know the truth, not theories.

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I just want to know why that was the case.

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It didn't only lead to me being destroyed,

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it led to my whole family being destroyed and affected

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And you are adamant that you were not there that night?

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Ten years ago this was just another sleepy village.

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Now it is the place where Madeleine disappeared.

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Detectives have been given more time to question three young women

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arrested on suspicion of terror offences.

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The women, all teenagers, were detained in East London on Monday.

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The operation was linked to a raid in north-west London last week,

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during which another woman was shot and wounded by police.

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Senior police officers and defence lawyers have criticised new rules

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intended to reduce the amount of time people can be

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Last month, a new 28-day limit on pre-charge bail was introduced

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It followed criticism from people who were kept on bail for months

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or even years during high profile investigations into historical

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But this programme has been told the new time frame is unrealistic

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The England footballer Aaron Lennon has been detained under

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The 30-year-old Premier League star was taken to hospital for assessment

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amid concerns for his welfare after police found him near the side

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That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

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Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

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use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and if you text, you will be charged

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After 10am, we will talk to four people who never voted. Actually,

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that's not true, one thinks he voted once, but he's not sure.

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In the next half an hour or so, we will tell you more about the 30 or

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so people we spoke to, eight of whom didn't know there was a general

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election in five weeks time! Only three would go on camera though.

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Stay tuned for that. Let's get some sport

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with Hugh Woozencroft. And we're going to talk

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about Cristiano Ronaldo. He continues to be

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so impressive at the very I imagine 2017 he will be favourite

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to make it five. Last night the former England defender, his old

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team-mate, Phil Neville likened him to Pele or George Best. He was in

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imperious form to help Real Madrid take a step towards the Champions

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League final. They beat their city rivals Atletico Madrid thanks to

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Ronaldo's 4th hat-trick for the club. They have the chance to become

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the first back-to-back winners of the Champions League as well and

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that would be a third title in four years in the competition for them. A

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huge achievement even for a club with so much success. They are

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11-time winners and their recent history, all of that success would

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be underpinned by Cristiano Ronaldo himself. Describe how good he is.

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Well, for Ronaldo the record books continue to be rewritten. If you

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talk about footballing records, he just about has all of them to his

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namement if you want to talk about what his footballing legacy will be,

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he has taken the game to a new level. Aside from his personal

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accolades, his time at Manchester United and Real Madrid has been

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underlined by his professionalism on and off the pitch, his work rate in

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terms of his physical condition and his dedication to his craft.

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Portugal, his country, to their first international trophy at the

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European Championship last summerment if you were to mention

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like beside Maradona and Pele and his team-mate, he wouldn't be out of

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place in a list like that. There is a strong case as well to call in him

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the best player who has ever lived and we can look at his stats. Last

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night, Cristiano Ronaldo scored that hat-trick. He has back-to-back

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Champions League hat-tricks in knock-out games. He is the first

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player to achieve that after his five goals against Bayern Munich, he

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has eight goals in his last three Champions League games. The Atletico

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fans won't like the next one, he has scored more goals than their club!

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Another new benchmark as well, Cristiano Ronaldo has become the

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first player to move beyond 50 goals in the knock-out stages of Champions

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League. He is up to 52 and 13 of those came in semifinals. I saw a

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tweet the other day saying the next time you feel sad remember how lucky

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you were to be around to see Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi

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play. We have been blessed over the last decade. Amazing stats. Tennis,

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there is reason to be optimistic for the former Wimbledon champion. Yes,

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good news yesterday. A great day for her and fer fans as well. The

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two-time Wimbledon champion returned to a tennis court following severe

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injuries that were caused by an attack at her home last year. The

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27-year-old suffered tendon and nerve damage in her left-hand when

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she was stabbed by an intruder in December. She posted a picture of

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practise in Monaco saying, "I hope this picture makes you as happy as

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it makes me." She was expected to be out for six months, but she said she

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has a chance at playing at the French Open. That starts at the end

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of this month the best of luck to her with her recovery. Thank you,

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Hugh. So it may feel like it's been

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going on for weeks already - but today's the day the general

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election campaign From today every seat in the House

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of Commons becomes up for grabs and MPs revert to being plain

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old candidates - although government ministers

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keep their titles and their jobs. So over the next 35 days,

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how many more moments How much would police officers cost?

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We think it would be about ?300,000. 10,000 police officers, what are you

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saying? No, I mean, sorry. How much will they cost? They will... It will

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cost... About, about ?80 million. Mrs Thatcher, why won't the

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Argentinian battleship was outside the exclusion zone and actually

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sailing away from the Falklands, why did you give the orders to sink it?

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It was not sailing away from the Falklands, it was in an area which

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was a danger to our ships. As you went away, a microphone

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picked up saying that was a very bigoted woman. Is that what you

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said? I apologise if I said anything like that. What I think she was

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raising about me was an issue about immigration, and saying there were

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too many people from Eastern Europe in the country. I do apologise if I

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have said anything that has been hurtful and I will apologise to her

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personally. Someone has just handed me the tape. You should never have

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put me with that woman. Whose idea was that? It is just ridiculous. You

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can support Man Utd, the Windies and Team GB all of the same time. Of

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course I would rather you supported West Ham. You have said before that

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the governors to choose. Do you choose West Ham or Villa? I had what

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Natalie Wood described as a brain fade, I am a Villa fan, I must have

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been overcome by something this morning. There we are, these things

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sometimes happen when you are on the stump. I know how long this campaign

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has been for all of you. But I would urge you, if you've got anything

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else to do with the next five days, put it off. Until after May the 7th.

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DIY, Sarah will be around your house to do video wire after May the 7th.

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Absolutely. Family weddings Sarah will come to your family weddings

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after the seventh. You are promising 12 Ilion pound cuts to the welfare

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bill, you have told people about two billion and you went tell voters the

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details of the rest because? We have gone into some detail, as you said.

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But the 10 billion, why when you tell voters the rest? Over the last

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five years we have managed to make savings in the welfare budget. But

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the 10 billion you haven't explained, why won't you tell voters

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about that? Because what we have got to do is as we have in the last five

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years work through making those savings, and I think we have got a

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track record... OK, is there anyone here who thinks as a voter they are

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entitled to hear the details? Yes! Well, all of those clips seem like a

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lifetime ago, don't they? Later this morning, we'll be

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speaking to a group of people between the ages of 23 and 50 who've

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never voted - they'll tell us why. Although one thinks he might have

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done. Now let's speak to Anne

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McElvoy, Senior editor at The Economist magazine,

:19:45.:19:49.

Guardian columnist and Labour supporter Owen Jones,

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and Daniel Finkelstein, Times columnist and

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Conservative peer. Good morning. What sort of campaign

:19:54.:20:02.

are you expecting over the next few weeks? Spectacularly dull one, in

:20:03.:20:07.

live and by the kind of pratfalls that we saw yesterday, with Diane

:20:08.:20:10.

Abbott. Because once you have put a campaign into a very tight framework

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of time, and it really is a four-week campaign, everyone has to

:20:16.:20:17.

be Abel the time. There hasn't been the long run-up or preparation. So

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unless you are really on top of your brief, someone will ask you

:20:24.:20:26.

something very awkward. You're very good take there showed how often

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that happens historically. So I would expect some ups and downs but

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Theresa May is its -- she is determined to make it a boring

:20:35.:20:37.

campaign because that is what she needs to get onto the terms she

:20:38.:20:41.

wants. She doesn't want any excitements. What would you say,

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Owen? It was like you've been framed but less entertaining, that. The

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Tories strategy at the moment is to say nothing about domestic policy,

:20:53.:20:55.

to stick the slogans over and over again, Lynton Crosby clearly is a

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pro at this. He is the Tory spinmeister general, he did the last

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general election, and his whole approach is you just stick the key

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messages on the basis that most voters phase out and so on. It will

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be interesting to see if voters find that a bit insulting, where you just

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hammer away at slogans which are quite awkwardly just thrown into

:21:16.:21:18.

answers without focusing on the substance. What do the Tories have

:21:19.:21:22.

to say on the NHS, which the Red Cross said was in a humanitarian

:21:23.:21:27.

crisis earlier this year? Education, public services, tax. The economy

:21:28.:21:33.

first at the moment we don't have answers. Whether you like labour or

:21:34.:21:36.

not, they are setting up policies. Today they are making this point

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about the latest top-down NHS reorganisation, whereby 35 Accident

:21:39.:21:44.

Emergency departments are in risk of closure or downgrade. They argue

:21:45.:21:47.

they will make a stop to that. Will the Tories respond to the depth of

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that, the substance, or will it just be Lynton Crosby slogans? What do

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you think, Daniel, public services are under pressure, education

:21:58.:22:02.

budgets are stretched, and parts of the NHS seem to be in dire straits.

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I am sure the Conservative campaign will focus on what they want to do,

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which will be strong and stable leadership, they know that is an

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issue people with them. Most election campaigns don't convert

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people. They start with an opinion, Owen has his opinion and I have

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mine, it is unlikely anyone is going to say will change that. So what you

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want to try to do is put to the front of people's minds the issues

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on what they agree with you. So campaigns have to be disciplined in

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order to achieve that. Obviously you also get the advantage in an

:22:39.:22:40.

election campaign of unscripted moments. Sometimes, we journalists

:22:41.:22:45.

overestimate the impact that makes. In some ways, it would be lucky if

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people notice them at all, and certainly yesterday there was all

:22:51.:22:56.

that fuss about Diane Abbott. Yes, it was a performance that would have

:22:57.:22:58.

embarrassed her because I can imagine doing something terrible

:22:59.:23:02.

like that myself. In the end people probably didn't notice it that much.

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The other thing is we don't always know what is a platform at the time

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and what is a success. Afterwards we frame things, but if you get

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something like the Neil Kinnock we are all right, that Sheffield rally.

:23:16.:23:21.

I was speaking to a journalist who is a very successful sketch writer

:23:22.:23:25.

at the time, and he got back on the bus, and everyone said, that was

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great commie was on fire. It was only when you got away from the

:23:31.:23:33.

scene of the crime, if you like, these were the days before mobile

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phones, everyone got home and said that is awful. Just remind viewers

:23:37.:23:41.

what the problem was with that, because it was 1992. The problem was

:23:42.:23:46.

hubris. We have seen it a little bit in Emmanuel Macron in France going

:23:47.:23:50.

into his election, a rather inexperienced politician, brilliant

:23:51.:23:55.

guy, after the first two rounds of voting, he sounded like he had it in

:23:56.:23:59.

the bag, he had his arms of the air, said this image is that he has

:24:00.:24:03.

scored the goal. But he hasn't, he has just got a very good pass, and

:24:04.:24:06.

that was the problem for Kinnock and needs to be avoided. That was

:24:07.:24:13.

yesterday, with Diane Abbott, but my worry is that most of the press will

:24:14.:24:17.

be scrutinising the opposition, and I think we need to shift the balance

:24:18.:24:20.

a little bit more. Of your sleeve that was a blooper, but we should be

:24:21.:24:24.

debating Labour Party policy yesterday, that is what the media

:24:25.:24:30.

should do. And plenty of media did. But then you have to have it tested

:24:31.:24:34.

and if the figures don't routinely stand-up, whether it is on the NHS

:24:35.:24:38.

or policemen was, then you can't say you're not being fair to us. But

:24:39.:24:43.

they do stack up, that's the point. Miracle maths. That is not fair.

:24:44.:24:49.

Just to give you an example. Just finish briefly that point about

:24:50.:24:54.

policing. I am sitting here with two pro-government voices here. I am not

:24:55.:25:01.

a pro-government voice. Oh, come on. We invited Anna Calvin to be the

:25:02.:25:08.

neutral one. You are pro-labour and we had a pro-Conservative. Luke

:25:09.:25:15.

beautifully neutral, as the BBC are. The proposals on police are to get

:25:16.:25:19.

10,000 more police officers, which would cost 800 million, so they

:25:20.:25:22.

still have a huge amount of money left over, just so we're clear on

:25:23.:25:27.

that. From the promises we have had so far, the clues we have had so

:25:28.:25:31.

far, the extra police officers, the million more homes from Labour, pay

:25:32.:25:36.

rise for NHS staff, from the Conservatives, VAT won't go up,

:25:37.:25:39.

which means national insurance or income tax might, and the promise of

:25:40.:25:44.

this energy price cap. Do those individual policies add up to a

:25:45.:25:47.

coherent vision for the future of Britain for any of you? Grate I

:25:48.:25:51.

think there is going to be a choice, there is away is a choice between a

:25:52.:25:54.

Labour and Conservative government, extension to buy the position that

:25:55.:25:58.

John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn takes. If Labour is elected it will

:25:59.:26:02.

spend more on public services, tax more and borrow more. I think we

:26:03.:26:06.

have been down that path, it wasn't successful, in the end I think poor

:26:07.:26:11.

people end up paying for it. That is one of our fundamental disagreements

:26:12.:26:16.

because you don't. Sometimes at elections can eliminate that, but we

:26:17.:26:20.

don't have a hypothesis, so a tax system that somebody in notes is a

:26:21.:26:24.

particular tax it gets spent on a particular thing. You have to take

:26:25.:26:28.

an overall view on whether you think Labour or the Tories are likely to

:26:29.:26:31.

be able to balance the books was to take the view that Labour has failed

:26:32.:26:37.

at. Is it wise believing any party figures going into elections. To

:26:38.:26:41.

re-establish my impartiality, we have seen this done repeatedly by a

:26:42.:26:47.

run of Conservative governments, that the target is not a target any

:26:48.:26:51.

more, then there is a deficit reduction target, and frankly if we

:26:52.:26:54.

follow this and feel a little bit sceptical about it, and we are a

:26:55.:26:58.

group of people who have to do this for a living, had we think the

:26:59.:27:03.

voters respond to it? The Tories's record is important here because

:27:04.:27:06.

they said they would wipe out the deficit by 2015, didn't get close.

:27:07.:27:10.

They have added more debt than every Labour government put together. Of

:27:11.:27:14.

course, because the deficit is too high. You have said the poor has

:27:15.:27:18.

suffered the consequences, we have suffered the longest squeeze on

:27:19.:27:21.

living standards for a generation. What Labour have to get clear is a

:27:22.:27:25.

vision because it is not about individual policies, most people

:27:26.:27:28.

don't think like that. It is a case of putting money in your pocket,

:27:29.:27:32.

whether it be a ?10 living wage for example. Labour is the borrowing

:27:33.:27:36.

party and it will borrow more. The reason the Conservatives have done

:27:37.:27:39.

that is even with all the pressure the Conservatives have exerted, all

:27:40.:27:43.

of which you have opposed and labour as opposed, the is still too high.

:27:44.:27:49.

There has been no talk about the deficit yet. 2015 everyone was

:27:50.:27:57.

obsessed with it. I think it is important the Conservatives turn to

:27:58.:28:00.

that, because it is an important part of the public debate and if it

:28:01.:28:05.

was that I was an election strategist they can win on it. If

:28:06.:28:09.

you are strong on the economy, and the Conservatives are far ahead on

:28:10.:28:13.

that. You win on economy full stop the deficit between what we bring in

:28:14.:28:16.

and what we spend and that is where we have the shortfall. There are

:28:17.:28:20.

quite a few people not at all in gauge the yet with this general

:28:21.:28:23.

election. In fact there are quite a few people who don't know that a

:28:24.:28:27.

general election is in a few weeks' time. Have a look at this.

:28:28.:28:39.

Are you aware that there's a general election in June?

:28:40.:28:41.

I'm not aware of anything that is going on.

:28:42.:28:51.

Are you aware of who the Prime Minister is? You are 18, will you be

:28:52.:29:03.

voting in the election? I am so against us like that. I think

:29:04.:29:07.

everyone should vote. You have been given that though so you should

:29:08.:29:13.

definitely vote, regardless of what your opinion is. Vote because it is

:29:14.:29:16.

your right to do so first what do you have the say to that? LAUGHTER

:29:17.:29:26.

I would rather not. I am not so interested in politics because what

:29:27.:29:31.

they say is not going to happen. I don't take no noticeable that,

:29:32.:29:34.

because it doesn't matter whatever, they still mess up the country like

:29:35.:29:36.

they have done anyway. Do you feel your vote is important?

:29:37.:29:47.

No. That's what I'm saying, it is rubbish, one takes over and is

:29:48.:29:50.

supposed to be better, nothing is ever better. We actually talk to

:29:51.:29:56.

about 30 people over 90 minutes or so, eight people did not know there

:29:57.:30:00.

was a general election in June, only three would go on camera. It is

:30:01.:30:05.

worth bearing in mind, isn't it, for both journalists and politicians

:30:06.:30:09.

that actually some people have no idea, not that bothered, and turnout

:30:10.:30:10.

might be an issue. This is something that politicians

:30:11.:30:20.

organising election campaigns have to be aware of. You have got a

:30:21.:30:24.

certain amount of people that won't vote anyway and although you want to

:30:25.:30:27.

put your message out, you can't do much about that, but you are

:30:28.:30:30.

interested in the people that are vaguely aware. The lady said she was

:30:31.:30:34.

sometimes aware of who the Prime Minister was! People used to say

:30:35.:30:38.

that doctors had the question if someone had a blow to the head, it

:30:39.:30:42.

gets confusing when you change Prime Ministers, there is a looser

:30:43.:30:45.

national awareness of what is going on at Westminster than maybe there

:30:46.:30:49.

was 20 or 30 years ago. Can we talk about Brexit? Which party is going

:30:50.:30:54.

to be honest with voters and say, "We are going to have to pay a big

:30:55.:30:58.

bill for leaving the European Union. And we are going to end up with a

:30:59.:31:02.

worst trade deal than we have got now with the European Union." I

:31:03.:31:08.

supported remaining in the European Union for those reasons. We have

:31:09.:31:10.

made the decision to leave the European Union so I think the

:31:11.:31:13.

question people have to decide is what is the most coherent way and

:31:14.:31:16.

the strongest way of negotiating with the European Union? At the end

:31:17.:31:20.

of it, because I think this is one of the choices, are we going to

:31:21.:31:23.

leave the European Union anyway or are we going to have to have a

:31:24.:31:26.

second referendum or a Parliamentary decision that we're not going to

:31:27.:31:30.

leave the European Union? That's the debate in the election campaign. I

:31:31.:31:34.

voted Remain and I take the view we made that decision it has to be

:31:35.:31:37.

respected. The Lib Dems offering a referendum on the final deal. Where

:31:38.:31:44.

are you when it comes to Brexit? We have to just implement what the

:31:45.:31:47.

referendum saidment I supported Remain, but the people made their

:31:48.:31:51.

decision. But the issue is on what terms do you leave? My fear is the

:31:52.:31:56.

premise of this election I'm afraid is fraudulent which is Theresa May

:31:57.:31:59.

says this will strengthen a deal if she gets a bigger majority. Other

:32:00.:32:03.

European countries don't care how many seats she has got. They are

:32:04.:32:05.

interested this their own electorate. The critical point is do

:32:06.:32:09.

we end up crashing out of the European Union without any deal? Do

:32:10.:32:14.

we end up as a tax haven and strip away social provision which makes

:32:15.:32:18.

this country great or do we keep the benefits of the single market and

:32:19.:32:22.

the customs union and defend jobs and the economy? That dividing line

:32:23.:32:25.

has to be made clear because I don't think people in this country are

:32:26.:32:31.

aware of the dangers what of Tories will end up doing? If you want to

:32:32.:32:37.

spend money on public services you will spend it whatever deal you get

:32:38.:32:41.

the the problem for Theresa May and you have seen the hostile reaction

:32:42.:32:44.

from Brussels and from other European countries this week is that

:32:45.:32:50.

having done something, which she has to carry out, is not going to be

:32:51.:32:54.

easy. It won't be easy to get the trade deal and it wobt be easy to

:32:55.:32:58.

make trade arrangements so she is going to have to be very, very

:32:59.:33:03.

tough. She is going to get into Thatcher mark two territory and she

:33:04.:33:11.

has to be prepared to be disliked. The FT report suggests the bill

:33:12.:33:15.

could be up to 100 billion euros. Into it is not a bill. We will be

:33:16.:33:18.

paying some of what we will be paying anyway. It is only a part of

:33:19.:33:22.

what we pay into the EU. So the question is how long will the

:33:23.:33:27.

transition period go? In all fronts in terms of the regulations and in

:33:28.:33:31.

terms of how much we pay into the European Union? These are bills that

:33:32.:33:34.

the European Union say are part of the future payment we have committed

:33:35.:33:39.

to. They are a generous estimates. It is like when the builder comes

:33:40.:33:42.

round and you get the estimate and you would like to knock a bit off

:33:43.:33:46.

it. The Government are arguing we can keep the benefits of the

:33:47.:33:49.

European Union and get rid of the bits we don't like and the

:33:50.:33:55.

Government needs... They are arguing when it come to the single market

:33:56.:34:00.

and the customs union. Labour are saying it doesn't want free movement

:34:01.:34:04.

and the benefits of the single market and it has been said. So

:34:05.:34:08.

you're saying, they will accept free movement if it has to? The European

:34:09.:34:12.

Union has made it clear, and that's, if you are going to have an end to

:34:13.:34:16.

free moment of labour, you are aren't going to be allowed to have

:34:17.:34:19.

the benefits of the single market. What the priority is, what the

:34:20.:34:22.

aspiration, what they are aiming for, according to the polling most

:34:23.:34:25.

people want to stay in the single market in this country if possible.

:34:26.:34:36.

Are the next five weeks going to be about this?

:34:37.:34:59.

Strong. Strong. Strong. Strong and stable leadership. Strong. Strong.

:35:00.:35:06.

Strong. Strong. Strong. Strong. Strong and stable leadership.

:35:07.:35:10.

It's a rigged system. It's a rigged Stel. Theresa May's coronation, for

:35:11.:35:15.

her coronation. A rigged committee. We've system that's rigged That's

:35:16.:35:19.

the difference. That's the contrast to ensure that we have that strong

:35:20.:35:25.

and stable leadership. Thank you very much for coming on the

:35:26.:35:29.

programme we may talk again in the next few weeks if you come back,

:35:30.:35:32.

thank you. We will be on the road over the next few weeks.

:35:33.:35:40.

Is it about Brexit, schools and the NHS and a bit of Brexit? You will be

:35:41.:35:46.

able to tell us, debate and talk directly to politicians as well

:35:47.:35:49.

before election day itself, we will be in the Scottish Borders, the

:35:50.:35:53.

Welsh valleys and we will kick off things next week in Cornwall. If you

:35:54.:35:57.

live in or know those areas, they are big areas, then get in touch to

:35:58.:36:02.

give us a better sense of what matters to you and your suggestions

:36:03.:36:04.

of where to visit and people to talk to. Do e-mail us.

:36:05.:36:12.

Ten years after her disappearance, Portuguese detectives tell the BBC

:36:13.:36:15.

they never believed the theory that Madeleine McCann was taken

:36:16.:36:21.

We'll be live in Portugal and we'll speak to the man who got

:36:22.:36:25.

And just why did 14 black Cambridge students

:36:26.:36:32.

Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:36:33.:36:40.

The Brexit Secretary, David Davis, has rejected suggestions that

:36:41.:36:44.

Britain will be forced to pay up to ?100 million as a final

:36:45.:36:47.

The European Commission's chief negotiator Michel Barnier

:36:48.:36:52.

will publish the EU's Brexit negotiating guidelines this morning

:36:53.:36:56.

after a gathering of European leaders at the weekend.

:36:57.:36:59.

Some reports suggest negotiators have increased the size

:37:00.:37:01.

of the so-called divorce bill which the EU will demand

:37:02.:37:03.

We will see have the speech live in the next ten minutes or after 10am.

:37:04.:37:19.

That's coming up shortly. Labour has dismissed Conservative

:37:20.:37:23.

claims that they're planning a "tax The Shadow Chancellor,

:37:24.:37:25.

John McDonnell, has accused the Conservatives of lying,

:37:26.:37:28.

saying the Labour manifesto But the Tories insist

:37:29.:37:30.

there's a ?45 billion gap between what Labour is promising

:37:31.:37:33.

to spend, and what it Political parties are taking

:37:34.:37:35.

to the streets in the last day of campaigning ahead

:37:36.:37:42.

of tomorrow's local elections. Nearly 5,000 council seats are up

:37:43.:37:44.

for grabs across England, The poll will give voters a chance

:37:45.:37:46.

to deliver their verdicts on the main parties before

:37:47.:37:51.

the general election next month. There are also eight

:37:52.:37:55.

mayoral elections. Today marks ten years

:37:56.:37:59.

since the disappearance The BBC's Panorama programme has

:38:00.:38:04.

learnt that Portuguese detectives never believed the main British

:38:05.:38:07.

police theory that the toddler was She went missing from a holiday

:38:08.:38:10.

apartment in Praia da Despite extensive international

:38:11.:38:22.

inquiries, no firm leads have been found and the investigations remain

:38:23.:38:25.

open. A former Scotland Yard Commissioner

:38:26.:38:28.

has said continuing the search for Madeleine was the right

:38:29.:38:30.

thing to do. Detectives have been given more time

:38:31.:38:32.

to question three young women arrested on suspicion

:38:33.:38:35.

of terror offences. The women, all teenagers, were

:38:36.:38:36.

detained in East London on Monday. The operation was linked to a raid

:38:37.:38:39.

in north-west London last week, during which another woman was shot

:38:40.:38:42.

and wounded by police. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:38:43.:38:49.

News - more at 10am. James says I'm 47. Me and my

:38:50.:38:57.

girlfriend who is the same abling have never voted. My reasons are, I

:38:58.:39:03.

don't have faith in them. They don't warrant me wasting my time and going

:39:04.:39:07.

to vote. John says, "If certain members of the public are confused

:39:08.:39:12.

by the change in Prime Ministers, they shouldn't be voting." One

:39:13.:39:16.

person knows it is a privilege to vote and the other doesn't care.

:39:17.:39:18.

David says people are not aware there is an election, how could you

:39:19.:39:27.

not know? Mike tweets, "This fascinating vox pops, many not

:39:28.:39:31.

knowing there is an election and who is the PM."

:39:32.:39:35.

Atletico stay on course to win the trophy for a third time this four

:39:36.:39:54.

years. Colin Jackson believes his entire

:39:55.:39:57.

career will be tarnished if proposals to scrap athletics

:39:58.:39:59.

world records set before The European Athletics Taskforce

:40:00.:40:01.

thinks erasing records set from before doping samples

:40:02.:40:04.

were retained, could help World number one Andy Murray says

:40:05.:40:06.

he expects Maria Sharapova to be given wildcard entry into this

:40:07.:40:11.

year's Wimbledon qualifiers. Former champion Sharapova recently

:40:12.:40:16.

returned to competition The Salford Red Devils winger

:40:17.:40:18.

Justin Carney has been banned for eight matches

:40:19.:40:26.

after he admitted to racially He was sent off during their win

:40:27.:40:28.

over Toronto Wolfpack That's all the sport for now. I'll

:40:29.:40:31.

have more after 10am. People kept on police bail

:40:32.:40:44.

for months, or even years, say it left them feeling suicidal

:40:45.:40:46.

and unable to move New rules have changed how long

:40:47.:40:48.

people can be bailed for, Our reporter John Owen

:40:49.:40:52.

has been investigating. I live elsewhere, so that I'm not

:40:53.:40:57.

going to be arrested It has driven me very

:40:58.:41:16.

close to the edge. Either my laptop did or didn't

:41:17.:41:31.

upload images to a Flickr account. Pre-charge bail is a police power

:41:32.:41:43.

that allows a suspect to be released from custody whilst

:41:44.:41:46.

a crime is investigated. With an obligation to return

:41:47.:41:48.

for further questioning, Questions around the length of time

:41:49.:41:50.

that suspects spend on pre-charge bail came to public attention

:41:51.:41:56.

after a string of high-profile investigations into phone hacking

:41:57.:41:58.

and historic sex abuse. The police have some

:41:59.:42:01.

questions to answer. How do you feel about three

:42:02.:42:04.

years of your life wasted Suspects complained that they have

:42:05.:42:06.

been subjected to long periods on police bail,

:42:07.:42:13.

and unnecessarily protracted Although it's only recently made

:42:14.:42:14.

headlines, thousands of people spend Some spend many months on the police

:42:15.:42:22.

scrutiny before even A few weeks ago, new restrictions

:42:23.:42:27.

came into effect designed to reduce the length of time that suspects

:42:28.:42:31.

spend under investigation. The new rules say that the length

:42:32.:42:35.

of time a person can be kept on pre-charge bail will be limited

:42:36.:42:38.

to an initial 28 days, but that a senior police officer can

:42:39.:42:41.

extend a person's bail time up After that, a magistrate can

:42:42.:42:44.

grant further extensions. But as the new rules come

:42:45.:42:49.

into effect, this programme has heard concerns that it won't address

:42:50.:42:52.

the problem they are These new rules don't do anything

:42:53.:42:55.

to ensure that investigations in general are going to be

:42:56.:43:00.

resolved more swiftly. In fact, I fear that they

:43:01.:43:03.

may even take longer. As well as concerns

:43:04.:43:06.

from senior police officers We have a police service

:43:07.:43:08.

that is on its knees. 28 days just simply

:43:09.:43:13.

is not realistic. David Prince spent two years under

:43:14.:43:24.

police investigation after being caught up

:43:25.:43:27.

in a complex fraud case. He was unaware of any proceedings

:43:28.:43:31.

against him until ?31,000 suddenly disappeared

:43:32.:43:34.

from his business account. As the investigation progressed,

:43:35.:43:37.

he had almost 50 items of personal property confiscated,

:43:38.:43:46.

and the police froze He described the psychological

:43:47.:43:47.

pressure of spending time It had a terrible effect on my life.

:43:48.:43:50.

I had no money to live off. I'd sold everything that

:43:51.:43:55.

I owned of any value. A lot of the depression kicked

:43:56.:43:57.

in after I was arrested And so a few months after that,

:43:58.:44:01.

I attempted to commit suicide, and for another twice after that

:44:02.:44:10.

I attempted to commit You attempted suicide

:44:11.:44:13.

on three occasions? You must have been

:44:14.:44:20.

in a very dark place. Having your whole life turned

:44:21.:44:24.

upside down, everything taken away from you,

:44:25.:44:29.

your business taken away from you, your personal accounts

:44:30.:44:32.

taken away from you. You feel like you've had a crime

:44:33.:44:35.

done to you by the state. How did the police inform

:44:36.:44:38.

you that there were going to be no Well basically, they sent me

:44:39.:44:56.

a very badly printed So, I can hardly even read this,

:44:57.:45:01.

because it's so badly produced. And you can sort of make out

:45:02.:45:08.

here that there is a cross mark where it says there is insufficient

:45:09.:45:16.

evidence to provide a realistic And that made me feel

:45:17.:45:18.

absolutely awful. Rather than releasing me and saying,

:45:19.:45:22.

innocent, they're saying Well, there is insufficient evidence

:45:23.:45:24.

because there is no evidence And they should at least

:45:25.:45:31.

acknowledge that. There's no empathy in

:45:32.:45:37.

a police investigation. And that's the way you're treated

:45:38.:45:40.

all the way through. And even when you finish

:45:41.:45:49.

the process, you just And that's difficult to live with,

:45:50.:45:51.

and that makes you angry. Steve has spent the last nine months

:45:52.:45:57.

under police investigation. He is currently on pre-charge bail,

:45:58.:46:00.

and has had his bail time For legal reasons, we can't

:46:01.:46:04.

broadcast the full details of his case, or reveal his last

:46:05.:46:10.

name, but Steve has been accused of making explicit images public

:46:11.:46:14.

online without the consent Steve maintains his innocence,

:46:15.:46:16.

and is yet to be charged, still less convicted,

:46:17.:46:21.

of any offence. For the last nine, ten months,

:46:22.:46:27.

I've known at any time I could be arrested again,

:46:28.:46:30.

taken back and put in a cell. You've been on bail

:46:31.:46:33.

for nine months already? When you receive notice that

:46:34.:46:35.

that was going to be extended by an additional three months,

:46:36.:46:50.

you wrote an e-mail to the police. And in that e-mail, you said,

:46:51.:46:53.

this is not a police state. If you want me in three

:46:54.:46:57.

then come and get me. You sound like a man

:46:58.:47:01.

on the edge in that e-mail. I was on the edge there, and I did

:47:02.:47:04.

actually send them an e-mail. The last e-mail I sent

:47:05.:47:07.

to them said, look, this Had I not for the first time gone

:47:08.:47:10.

and seen my GP about this, Talking to friends and telling them

:47:11.:47:14.

the full facts of the case, who has accused me and what I have

:47:15.:47:24.

been accused of. It has driven me very

:47:25.:47:26.

close to the edge. Steve has had his bail time extended

:47:27.:47:29.

on five separate occasions, and has spent months with his life

:47:30.:47:31.

on hold waiting to be I really did believe this time,

:47:32.:47:34.

because the inspector did write to me and say,

:47:35.:47:38.

look, we are going to get it sorted this time for you,

:47:39.:47:40.

the longest one ever Under the new rules,

:47:41.:47:43.

there is going to be a 28-day But of course that doesn't help

:47:44.:47:46.

somebody in your position, does it? No, because I'm already

:47:47.:47:51.

on what they are calling now the old scheme, and I do believe I'm

:47:52.:47:54.

going to be put further and further back, because they've got to deal

:47:55.:47:57.

with people on the new scheme, whereas with me, they can just write

:47:58.:48:00.

to me and put me back again So you are worried

:48:01.:48:03.

that the 28-day limit... As an outspoken critic

:48:04.:48:07.

of the new regulations, vice-chair of the Police Federation,

:48:08.:48:11.

Calum Macleod, shares Steve's concerns, and also believes

:48:12.:48:13.

that the changes will create serious The issue is, 28 days is a very,

:48:14.:48:15.

very short time frame. We have a police service

:48:16.:48:19.

that is on its knees. We are 23,000 officers less

:48:20.:48:21.

than we were in 2009. The pressure that these officers

:48:22.:48:24.

are under is immense. 28 days just simply

:48:25.:48:26.

is not realistic. In some cases, people's lives

:48:27.:48:28.

are really torn apart by being under Do you think the police ought to be

:48:29.:48:31.

more conscious of the fact that their investigations can

:48:32.:48:35.

have a very detrimental effect on the lives of people who have

:48:36.:48:37.

been accused of a crime? I take on board what you're saying

:48:38.:48:41.

in relation to the impact That is right, I sympathise with

:48:42.:48:45.

individuals involved in the process. But sometimes it's simply

:48:46.:48:48.

outwith our control in relation Do you think that the new bail rules

:48:49.:48:50.

will ultimately mean that people accused of a crime will be dealt

:48:51.:49:01.

with more swiftly than Ultimately, I think we're

:49:02.:49:03.

going to end up with a lot What happens to the individuals

:49:04.:49:07.

who are released without bail? What mechanisms are there to ensure

:49:08.:49:11.

that that crime is investigated on the same level as somebody

:49:12.:49:14.

who is on bail? So you're saying that

:49:15.:49:21.

somebody could be released from custody without bail,

:49:22.:49:23.

but still be subjected to a very long police investigation

:49:24.:49:26.

without even the staging post That is exactly the point

:49:27.:49:27.

I'm trying to make. We put this last point to criminal

:49:28.:49:38.

defence lawyer Ruth Harris, and asked if the new rules would put

:49:39.:49:41.

any limit on the length of time a person could spend under police

:49:42.:49:44.

investigation if they are simply No, there is no limit on the length

:49:45.:49:47.

of police investigation for them. What's important to notice that's

:49:48.:49:52.

going to be a really significant proportion of the people

:49:53.:49:54.

who are released while an investigation continues,

:49:55.:49:57.

because the new rules say that there must be a presumption

:49:58.:49:59.

that people who are released pending investigation are not released

:50:00.:50:03.

on bail, and not really subject to any bail conditions,

:50:04.:50:05.

so we going to see probably the majority of people released

:50:06.:50:07.

without any bail at all, and they'll be released with this

:50:08.:50:10.

stench of wrongdoing hanging round them, but no date

:50:11.:50:12.

on which they can imagine that the case is going to be

:50:13.:50:15.

resolved, and no mechanism by which they can challenge

:50:16.:50:17.

tardiness on the part of the police When your clients are subjected

:50:18.:50:20.

to very long police investigations, what kind of an effect does it tend

:50:21.:50:38.

to have on them? Well, in answering that it's

:50:39.:50:41.

important to remember who these people are that are subject

:50:42.:50:44.

to these provisions. These are people that

:50:45.:50:46.

have been identified as suspects by the police,

:50:47.:50:47.

and released under investigation. But often they are identified quite

:50:48.:50:49.

publicly, the suspects. So if you were facing

:50:50.:50:52.

an allegation which you contest, and have no way in which you can

:50:53.:50:54.

clear your name, and no clarity as to when the matter will be

:50:55.:50:57.

resolved, the stress on you can If you work in the criminal justice

:50:58.:51:00.

system, or you've been on bail for a long period of time -

:51:01.:51:17.

do get in touch. When the reform to the pre-charge

:51:18.:51:20.

bail rules came into effect on April 3rd, the Home Office said the change

:51:21.:51:23.

"brings an end to the injustice of people being left to languish

:51:24.:51:26.

on very lengthy periods One today marks the 10-year

:51:27.:51:41.

anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in Portugal. Since

:51:42.:51:47.

then, many different theories have been investigated by both Portuguese

:51:48.:51:51.

and British police. Last week, the Met, who have been running an

:51:52.:51:55.

investigation since 2011, said they are still pursuing critical lines of

:51:56.:52:00.

enquiry. Madeleine McCann's parents Kate and Gerry have been speaking to

:52:01.:52:04.

Fiona Bruce about how they feel a decade on from their daughter cosmic

:52:05.:52:06.

disappearance. It's that 10-year mark, which makes

:52:07.:52:09.

it more significant I think, that's a reminder of how

:52:10.:52:12.

much time has gone by. I think that the day

:52:13.:52:14.

and the poignancy of it, that we don't tend to go back

:52:15.:52:19.

to the time because it's so draining, but inevitably

:52:20.:52:21.

on the anniversaries and on her birthday

:52:22.:52:23.

they are by far the hardest days. How different is your life now

:52:24.:52:32.

to what you must have imagined It's a hard one, isn't

:52:33.:52:35.

it, because it's such Before Madeleine was taken we felt

:52:36.:52:41.

we'd managed to achieve We had that for a short period

:52:42.:52:46.

and you adapt and have Unfortunately for us a new normality

:52:47.:52:54.

at the minute is a family of four. Last time we talked you told me how

:52:55.:53:01.

you were still buying birthday presents and Christmas

:53:02.:53:05.

presents for Madeleine. After ten years are

:53:06.:53:06.

you still doing that? So you go around the shops and think

:53:07.:53:08.

Madeleine would be this age now, I obviously have to think

:53:09.:53:19.

about what age she is and something that, you know, whenever

:53:20.:53:24.

we find her will But I couldn't not,

:53:25.:53:26.

she's still our daughter, Jon Kay is in Praia Da Luz. It is so

:53:27.:53:56.

familiar this site, we have seen it in news bulletins, and newspapers

:53:57.:54:01.

over the last ten years, but it was just up the pavement on the other

:54:02.:54:04.

side, that is where Kate McCann walked up ten years ago to check on

:54:05.:54:08.

the that win this department block and she discovered that Madeleine

:54:09.:54:13.

missing. In a panorama on BBC One tonight, Richard Bilton will hear

:54:14.:54:17.

from the Portuguese authorities who say they did not believe the

:54:18.:54:20.

suspicions of the British police when the British police got involved

:54:21.:54:24.

that this was a burglary gone wrong. Of course on the other side Scotland

:54:25.:54:28.

Yard were investigating and continued to investigate other lines

:54:29.:54:33.

as well. Investigating some deliberate abduction, whether there

:54:34.:54:37.

was a paedophile network at work. We know is that four local men who were

:54:38.:54:41.

questioned a of years ago as official subjects are no longer

:54:42.:54:46.

suspects, so it seems there are no longer any official suspects.

:54:47.:54:51.

Although police have said there is one significant critical line of

:54:52.:54:54.

enquiry they say that they are pursuing right now. We are not

:54:55.:54:58.

entirely sure what it is but it has been reported that it could be the

:54:59.:55:01.

siting of a woman on this very corner. A middle-aged woman dressed

:55:02.:55:05.

in purple, we have been told. We have also heard from a witness while

:55:06.:55:08.

we have been here in Portugal over the last couple of days who has said

:55:09.:55:12.

that as well as seeing a woman on this corner, she also saw a car

:55:13.:55:16.

speeding on a road towards this apartment in the couple of hours

:55:17.:55:20.

before Madelyn was seen to be missing. Still so many questions and

:55:21.:55:25.

answers and found, unbecoming, and tonight the people of this immunity,

:55:26.:55:30.

holiday-makers and experts will gather to remember not just

:55:31.:55:39.

Madeleine McCann but a service for all of those children who have gone

:55:40.:55:40.

missing over the world. We can speak now to Dr Graham Hill,

:55:41.:55:45.

who advised Portuguese police when Madeleine McCann first

:55:46.:55:47.

disappeared and wrote the review for the Home Office that led

:55:48.:55:50.

to the opening of British police What are your reflections today on

:55:51.:55:58.

that original investigation? I think looking back ten years on the

:55:59.:56:01.

picture was very confusing, as it is with most crimes of this type. But

:56:02.:56:09.

there was a definite sense of the British police response was not

:56:10.:56:11.

particularly welcomed by the Portuguese, and I can understand

:56:12.:56:15.

that, because it's quite difficult to go to someone else's jurisdiction

:56:16.:56:20.

and give some advice about such a high-profile crime. What mistakes

:56:21.:56:24.

were made in the very early days of the investigation, and how has that

:56:25.:56:29.

impacted on what has happened subsequently? These are notoriously

:56:30.:56:32.

difficult crimes to investigate, you have to do things correctly and in a

:56:33.:56:36.

timely fashion, normally within the first 24 hours or 48 hours. If you

:56:37.:56:40.

don't, then the investigation can get away with you, and I think that

:56:41.:56:43.

is very clear that is what happened with this investigation. Certain

:56:44.:56:47.

things weren't done in a timely fashion, and then you have to do

:56:48.:56:51.

them in a very unusual sort of way. The classic example is that the

:56:52.:56:55.

parents should have been eliminated from the investigation as early as

:56:56.:56:59.

possible, not weeks afterwards. Statistics tell us always eliminate

:57:00.:57:03.

close pivot of the child that has gone missing. Then you need to do

:57:04.:57:07.

your investigation thoroughly, your house-to-house investigation,

:57:08.:57:09.

because you never know what information you will be collecting

:57:10.:57:12.

and how important that will be in the future. Classic example of that,

:57:13.:57:16.

there are some research in America that says children that were

:57:17.:57:19.

abducted and murdered within the first 24 hours those cases that were

:57:20.:57:22.

sold, the suspect was actually spoken to by the investigation team.

:57:23.:57:26.

So that tells you how important it is to do those things correctly

:57:27.:57:31.

early. You wrote the review that led to British police opening their own

:57:32.:57:33.

enquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. It is still ongoing.

:57:34.:57:40.

Metropolitan Police Service till investigating. ?11 million has been

:57:41.:57:45.

spent up to now, is it worth continuing? Firstly when I read the

:57:46.:57:49.

review, I never envisaged it would still be investigated six or seven

:57:50.:57:52.

years on. What you have to understand is when I wrote the

:57:53.:57:56.

review, the actual investigation was three and a half years old. And it

:57:57.:58:01.

accrued lots of information, some of that hadn't been dealt with

:58:02.:58:06.

correctly, that was very obvious. When it then went to the

:58:07.:58:08.

Metropolitan Police Service to it was nearly four years old. So it is

:58:09.:58:14.

no surprise that they have had to decode and selectively go through

:58:15.:58:16.

all of that information, and then they have accrued a whole new lot of

:58:17.:58:24.

investigation -- from the enquiry on going. So it is no surprise it is

:58:25.:58:29.

still ongoing ten years later. On missing children cases like this,

:58:30.:58:34.

across Europe, are they difficult to investigate? Massively, because they

:58:35.:58:38.

are so rare and there is not a lot of experience across Europe in

:58:39.:58:40.

dealing with these high-profile crimes. The other thing about it,

:58:41.:58:44.

the child rescue alert system that is meant to help recover children

:58:45.:58:48.

that have been abducted, that is very fragmented across Europe. It

:58:49.:58:53.

doesn't work slickly, and there is a whole case for saying what have we

:58:54.:58:57.

learned? If this happened again in 2017, would our response in the UK

:58:58.:59:02.

and across Europe be any different? I'm not so sure it would be. The not

:59:03.:59:05.

so sure we have learned the lessons. The thing is with these crimes,

:59:06.:59:10.

sometimes they take years to get detecting, sometimes they are never

:59:11.:59:12.

detected but the one thing we need to do is learn lessons from them so

:59:13.:59:16.

they don't happen again, what at least when they do we are in a

:59:17.:59:19.

better position to do with them. Thank you very much, Dr Graham Hill.

:59:20.:59:24.

Still to come. The Eu's Chief Negotiator -

:59:25.:59:27.

a man called Michel Barnier - will set out EU guidelines

:59:28.:59:30.

for Brexit talks in We'll bring you what

:59:31.:59:32.

he has to say live. The latest news and sport in a

:59:33.:59:37.

second. Before that, the weather from Carol. It was chilly this

:59:38.:59:42.

morning, not just in London, but across many other parts of the UK it

:59:43.:59:46.

was as well. Especially so when we have a clear skies. Where we have

:59:47.:59:51.

the clear skies is where we started off with some sunshine. The

:59:52.:59:54.

temperatures are now rising quite rapidly. So we take a look at some

:59:55.:59:57.

of our Weather Watchers pictures. This is a beauty from Grimsby,

:59:58.:00:03.

lovely sunrise, lovely too this morning across Yorkshire. Some blue

:00:04.:00:07.

skies. For most of us today will remain mainly dry. I say mainly

:00:08.:00:10.

because there are some rain around was the bid has been raining and

:00:11.:00:14.

still is across parts of Kent and other parts of south-east England as

:00:15.:00:18.

well. On the satellite picture you can see where we have got the cloud,

:00:19.:00:21.

now melting away but this is an area of cloud producing some rain. Not

:00:22.:00:26.

particularly heavy but it is there nonetheless. It will increasingly

:00:27.:00:29.

turn more patchy through the course of the day. You will also notice the

:00:30.:00:33.

wind. It is picking up and it is a cold wind blowing this cloud further

:00:34.:00:37.

westwards. It will be the far north-west of Wales for example by

:00:38.:00:40.

the time we get into the afternoon that will be hanging onto the

:00:41.:00:44.

sunshine. For the rest of Wales, the cloud will continue to build. Moving

:00:45.:00:48.

across the Irish Sea into Northern Ireland, a chilly start. A beautiful

:00:49.:00:53.

one with a lot of sunshine, which prevails through the afternoon.

:00:54.:00:57.

Highs of 15 or 16 Celsius. Across Scotland, he too a lot of sunshine,

:00:58.:01:02.

yesterday in the West Highlands, they reached 21 Celsius, making it

:01:03.:01:05.

the warmest day in Scotland of the year so far. Today's temper job

:01:06.:01:09.

would be quite as I've stopped Northern England after a chilly

:01:10.:01:12.

start, lots of sunshine for you and then we run into all this cloud

:01:13.:01:14.

further south and east, thick enough to blog producing some patchy rain

:01:15.:01:19.

showers. That extends over in the direction of the south-west of

:01:20.:01:22.

England, nonetheless we will still see one or two brighter spells as we

:01:23.:01:27.

go through the afternoon. Into the evening and overnight period, we

:01:28.:01:30.

still have this keen wind, still a lot of cloud and some showers. Under

:01:31.:01:34.

clear skies across Scotland and Northern Ireland, it is going to be

:01:35.:01:38.

a cold night. The temperature will dip quite quickly after dark. Then

:01:39.:01:41.

some of the sheltered glens, we could well see a touch of frost.

:01:42.:01:46.

Tomorrow morning, that is why we'll see some sunshine for Scotland and

:01:47.:01:50.

Northern Ireland. Still a noticeable wind, coming off a chilly North Sea.

:01:51.:01:53.

If you are on that east coast will feel cold, even though there will be

:01:54.:01:57.

sunshine around. There will be more cloud across southern parts of

:01:58.:02:00.

England and Wales tomorrow but the wind will help break it up in

:02:01.:02:04.

places. It is still thick enough to produce the odd shower. Temperatures

:02:05.:02:08.

in the West about 14 to 16, still round about ten to 12 as we are in

:02:09.:02:11.

the east. For Friday, a similar story. Still in the East we are

:02:12.:02:16.

exposed to that wind so feeling cold, still quite a bit of cloud

:02:17.:02:20.

around Southern counties, but elsewhere sunny skies, brighter

:02:21.:02:23.

skies and highs up to about 15. Into the weekend, except for the risk of

:02:24.:02:28.

some rain coming into the south-west, it does remain fairly

:02:29.:02:28.

settled. It's Wednesday. It's just after

:02:29.:02:31.

10am. The general election campaign

:02:32.:02:38.

gets underway today. It means more of this. Strong and

:02:39.:02:50.

stable leadership. Strong and stable Government. Strong and staip

:02:51.:02:53.

leadership. Strong and stable Government. Strong and stable

:02:54.:03:02.

leadership. That message isn't reaching everyone

:03:03.:03:03.

though. Are you aware that there's

:03:04.:03:06.

a general election in June? I'm not aware of any

:03:07.:03:08.

thing that's going on. It doesn't matter whatever,

:03:09.:03:14.

they'll still mess up the country like they have done anyway,

:03:15.:03:16.

so it don't really matter to me. We'll be speaking to four

:03:17.:03:19.

young people, three of which who have never voted,

:03:20.:03:21.

one who can't remember We'll speak to some

:03:22.:03:23.

of the men in this photo. The 14 are all students

:03:24.:03:29.

at Cambridge University have got together to prove that young black

:03:30.:03:31.

men can go to Cambridge. And claims that rules which limit

:03:32.:03:35.

the amount of time people can spend on bail won't actually

:03:36.:03:38.

make any difference. You feel like you've had a crime

:03:39.:03:40.

done to you by the state and there Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

:03:41.:03:43.

with a summary of today's news. The Brexit Secretary, David Davis,

:03:44.:03:58.

has rejected suggestions that Britain will be forced to pay up

:03:59.:04:02.

to ?100 million as a final The European Commission's chief

:04:03.:04:05.

negotiator Michel Barnier will publish the EU's Brexit

:04:06.:04:08.

negotiating guidelines this morning after a gathering of European

:04:09.:04:11.

leaders at the weekend. Some reports suggest negotiators

:04:12.:04:13.

have increased the size of the so-called divorce bill

:04:14.:04:16.

which the EU will demand Today marks ten years

:04:17.:04:18.

since the disappearance The BBC's Panorama programme has

:04:19.:04:38.

learnt that Portuguese detectives never believed the main British

:04:39.:04:43.

police theory that the toddler was She went missing from a holiday

:04:44.:04:45.

apartment in Praia da Despite extensive international

:04:46.:04:51.

inquiries, no firm leads have been found and the investigations remain

:04:52.:04:55.

open. A former Scotland Yard Commissioner

:04:56.:04:56.

has said continuing the search for Madeleine was the right

:04:57.:04:58.

thing to do. Ten years on, the picture was very

:04:59.:05:13.

confusing as it is with most crimes of this type. But there was a

:05:14.:05:19.

definite sense of the Britis policing response wasn't

:05:20.:05:21.

particularly welcomed by the Portuguese.

:05:22.:05:24.

Detectives have been given more time to question three young women

:05:25.:05:27.

arrested on suspicion of terror offences.

:05:28.:05:28.

The women, all teenagers, were detained in East London on Monday.

:05:29.:05:31.

The operation was linked to a raid in north-west London last week,

:05:32.:05:34.

during which another woman was shot and wounded by police.

:05:35.:05:40.

Senior police officers and defence lawyers have criticised new rules

:05:41.:05:42.

intended to reduce the amount of time people can be

:05:43.:05:44.

Last month, a new 28-day limit on pre-charge bail was introduced

:05:45.:05:48.

It followed criticism from people who were kept on bail for months

:05:49.:05:57.

or even years during high-profile investigations into historical

:05:58.:05:59.

This programme has been told the new time frame is unrealistic

:06:00.:06:04.

We'll have more on this later in the hour.

:06:05.:06:09.

The Sun newspaper says thousands of the new one

:06:10.:06:12.

pound coins have cracked because of flaws

:06:13.:06:14.

The coins, which came into circulation in March,

:06:15.:06:18.

But the newspaper says it's seen evidence that the pound can be

:06:19.:06:22.

warped and in some cases, the distinctive centre

:06:23.:06:24.

The Turner Prize shortlist contains two people over 50.

:06:25.:06:44.

One of Britain's leading black female artists, Lubaina Himid,

:06:45.:06:46.

has become the oldest person to be nominated for British

:06:47.:06:48.

art's most high-profile award, the Turner Prize.

:06:49.:06:50.

At 62, Himid is eligible for the ?25,000 prize after it

:06:51.:06:53.

Another black British artist, 52-year-old Hurvin Anderson, is also

:06:54.:06:56.

The other two artists on the shortlist are

:06:57.:06:59.

German-born Andrea Buttner and Londoner Rosalind Nashashibi.

:07:00.:07:01.

The winner will be announced in December.

:07:02.:07:03.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30am.

:07:04.:07:10.

Cristiano Ronaldo became the first player to move past 50 goals

:07:11.:07:16.

in the knock-out stages of the Champions League alone,

:07:17.:07:19.

as he helped Real Madrid beat their city rivals Atletico 3-0

:07:20.:07:21.

in their semi-final first leg at the Bernabeu.

:07:22.:07:25.

Ronaldo scored the winning penalty in last year's final between these

:07:26.:07:28.

sides and he was once again Real's star last night.

:07:29.:07:32.

His hat-trick means Real are still on for their third

:07:33.:07:35.

Champions League title in four years.

:07:36.:07:40.

There have been threats of legal action from athletes who could have

:07:41.:07:45.

their world records taken away. World champion and world record

:07:46.:07:49.

holder Colin Jackson says athletics authorities should

:07:50.:07:51.

get their own house in order before removing records

:07:52.:07:53.

from athletes like him. A controversial anti-doping

:07:54.:07:55.

proposal could see those set Jackson held the 110 metre

:07:56.:07:57.

hurdles world record for 13 years and his mark over

:07:58.:08:00.

60-metres remains unbeaten. Look at your house today and make

:08:01.:08:10.

sure your sport is in order. Eradicating records from the past

:08:11.:08:13.

surely is not going to make any difference to the future in that

:08:14.:08:17.

particular way. They have got to make sure that the doping situation

:08:18.:08:21.

is in hand today. And that's all the sport for now,

:08:22.:08:25.

Victoria. David Davis said the UK will not pay

:08:26.:08:41.

a divorce bill of ?100 million when the UK leave the EU. The figure is

:08:42.:08:46.

higher than previous estimates of around 60 billion euros. There are

:08:47.:08:50.

claims the UK could be asked to contribute to farming payments after

:08:51.:08:54.

leaving the Union. The EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier is setting

:08:55.:08:57.

out his guidelines and we can hear from him right now.

:08:58.:09:03.

The business community in each mother state and trade unions and

:09:04.:09:10.

civil society and we will continue. Our hard work paid off, the result

:09:11.:09:17.

of our collective work is what happened last Saturday, the 27

:09:18.:09:24.

leaders and president of the three institutions showing their unity by

:09:25.:09:29.

agreeing on clear guidelines for the negotiation. Today the Commission

:09:30.:09:38.

proposes the recommendation that translates these guidelines into

:09:39.:09:48.

negotiating directives. In line with a two-phase approach, these

:09:49.:09:51.

directives are for the first phase of the negotiations onliment our

:09:52.:09:55.

recommendations shows where we want to land when we conclude the first

:09:56.:10:03.

phase of negotiations. Notably on citizens rights, the final

:10:04.:10:08.

settlement and the new external borders. I will pay great attention

:10:09.:10:16.

to the situation in Ireland and I will go to Ireland next week. The UK

:10:17.:10:24.

must put a great deal of energy and thought into these three issues over

:10:25.:10:30.

the next weeks and months and that will increase the chances of

:10:31.:10:38.

reaching a deal. Some have created the illusion that Brexit would have

:10:39.:10:45.

no material I will pact on our lives or that negotiations can be

:10:46.:10:51.

concluded quickly and painlessly. This is not the case. We need some

:10:52.:11:00.

solutions. We need legal precision and this will take time.

:11:01.:11:22.

How good is your French? I think we might just leave it there and maybe

:11:23.:11:30.

Norman can translate because we'll talk to him next. But you got the

:11:31.:11:35.

gist of that anyway. Tell us what would you draw from what would you

:11:36.:11:45.

draw from what he said in sn He is one tough cookie saying anyone who

:11:46.:11:47.

thinks this is going to be easy, it's going to be quick, think again.

:11:48.:11:54.

He said, "Don't be under any illusions, there is going to have to

:11:55.:11:58.

be a lot of change. There is going to have to be legal precision. This

:11:59.:12:03.

is going to take time." What is he going to say about money? Because we

:12:04.:12:06.

know there are suggestions that the EU could demand up to 1 billion

:12:07.:12:11.

euros for us to leave the European Union. A huge bill which the Brexit

:12:12.:12:15.

secretary David Davis has already said no way, we're not paying that.

:12:16.:12:21.

Meanwhile, here in old London town, in the general election campaign,

:12:22.:12:25.

money is also the issue with the Tories today going through what they

:12:26.:12:30.

say are all the policies which senior Labour figures have listed so

:12:31.:12:35.

far, totting them up and saying that money would cost ?65 billion, how

:12:36.:12:40.

are you going to pay for it? They have looked at the taxes and say

:12:41.:12:44.

Labour will change and say that will ropeble raise ?20 billion,

:12:45.:12:47.

therefore, the poor old voter will face ?45 billion of extra taxes and

:12:48.:12:51.

debt if Jeremy Corbyn becomes leader. It was the Chancellor,

:12:52.:12:55.

Philip Hammond, who set out that claim today in a news conference

:12:56.:12:58.

behind me. Have a listen to what he said. His economic policies are a

:12:59.:13:05.

recipe for chaos, instability, uncertainty, and insecurity. Britain

:13:06.:13:10.

simply cannot take the risk of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street

:13:11.:13:15.

unleashing economic chaos on the country. Just when we need strong

:13:16.:13:21.

and stable leadership for our economy and our country over the

:13:22.:13:24.

crucial next five years, as we negotiate our exit from the EU, and

:13:25.:13:30.

chart a new course in the years beyond, Jeremy Corbyn offers a kay

:13:31.:13:35.

attic and high-risk gamble that would lead to higher taxes, more

:13:36.:13:42.

borrowing and more debt. Just in case you didn't get the

:13:43.:13:47.

message behind Mr Hammond, we can show you the poster which the Tories

:13:48.:13:52.

are launching today. This tax bombshell poster which they say

:13:53.:13:56.

ordinary families would face in taxes and debts if Jeremy Corbyn was

:13:57.:14:01.

elected. That's the poster they want to stick in our minds, but let me

:14:02.:14:06.

say, it is turning into a bit of a retro election because if you wind

:14:07.:14:09.

back the clock, we have been here before. Let me remind you of 1992!

:14:10.:14:16.

Do you remember that election when it was John Major versus Neil kin

:14:17.:14:23.

OK, Norman Lamont and Chris Patten unveiling what looks like a very,

:14:24.:14:30.

very similar poster! Now, how have Labour responded to

:14:31.:14:33.

this charge? Well, frankly, they are furious because they are claiming

:14:34.:14:37.

that a lot of the things which the Tories are saying are Labour Party

:14:38.:14:40.

policy are not in fact Labour Party policy and John McDonnell this

:14:41.:14:47.

morning accused the Tories of lying and of falsehoods. Have a listen.

:14:48.:14:49.

A pack of lies. I don't know why the BBC

:14:50.:14:55.

or the media are giving it I'll just give an example,

:14:56.:14:59.

they've included ?35 billion worth of investment

:15:00.:15:04.

money, capital expenditure. They don't seem to know

:15:05.:15:05.

the difference between All you include in your day-to-day

:15:06.:15:07.

spending on capital expenditure is the interest rates,

:15:08.:15:10.

so it's completely ludicrous. Then they've invented figures

:15:11.:15:14.

in terms of commitments that we've given, which we haven't,

:15:15.:15:16.

and then where we have given commitments they haven't even

:15:17.:15:18.

identified where we have already That is what has been happening on

:15:19.:15:34.

the election campaign. Michel Barnier still on his feet. Let's

:15:35.:15:42.

have a listen. Many organisations, we need to respond by being

:15:43.:15:48.

transparent. This is why we are publishing today our recommendations

:15:49.:15:52.

of the councils negotiation directly, we will be transparent

:15:53.:15:59.

throughout the process. Transparency can help sustaining a constructive

:16:00.:16:05.

public to -- constructive public debate. I think the EU should always

:16:06.:16:15.

remain cool-headed and socially oriented. We should put all of our

:16:16.:16:20.

efforts towards reaching a deal. This is the spirit in which I with

:16:21.:16:26.

the trust of the institutions and Allman the States will continue

:16:27.:16:33.

working. The EU 27 is on track to make sure that the UK's withdrawal

:16:34.:16:43.

opens in an orderly fashion. That has now caused ten months of

:16:44.:16:48.

uncertainty, the UK's decision to leave. We need to remove that. It is

:16:49.:16:55.

high time to start negotiating, as soon as the UK is ready to come to

:16:56.:16:59.

the table, we shall start negotiating. The clock is ticking.

:17:00.:17:06.

And I am ready now to answer your questions. Before we start the

:17:07.:17:16.

remarks, please keep whatever you consider technical for colleagues

:17:17.:17:21.

who are here. Let's tried to cover different sensitivities, not to

:17:22.:17:30.

repeat ourselves. It is not impossible we will be able to answer

:17:31.:17:39.

technical questions as well. TRANSLATION: Good morning

:17:40.:17:44.

Commissioner, two questions firstly on the financial settlement, I

:17:45.:17:48.

understand your argument that there are commitments and projects that

:17:49.:17:53.

are underway and should not be interrupted, but legally speaking,

:17:54.:17:56.

what is the basis for this request? And then a second question on

:17:57.:18:03.

dispute settlement, you are saying this will be taken care of by the

:18:04.:18:09.

European court of justice. If I have understood correctly, as soon as the

:18:10.:18:13.

UK leaves the union, they will no longer be represented by a judge in

:18:14.:18:17.

the court. Do you think you will have to have a specific arrangement,

:18:18.:18:23.

where you ask the UK to bow before the other 27 judges of the court?

:18:24.:18:33.

Thank you. In response to your two points with Sabine and Stefanidi

:18:34.:18:36.

will be able to return to the details of this matter in which I

:18:37.:18:39.

have received and which I will apply with determination rigour. What we

:18:40.:18:44.

have in the guidelines are all the commitments which have been entered

:18:45.:18:49.

into between the UK and ourselves and vice versa. And there are of

:18:50.:18:55.

course certain common undertakings which have been entered into

:18:56.:19:01.

officially and legally for example in 2013 as to the beginning of the

:19:02.:19:10.

budget period, we have a whole range of obligations. Apart from that

:19:11.:19:17.

there are other obligations, these are the turkey. -- with regards to

:19:18.:19:26.

Turkey. We then have the other things which we have covered,

:19:27.:19:31.

macroeconomic assistance to countries such as Ukraine. This all

:19:32.:19:37.

has to be tarted up. We have entered into rigorous and objective work,

:19:38.:19:43.

which should be -- it will have to be totted up. I hear mention of

:19:44.:19:56.

punishment for the Brexit bill, that is not the case. Commitments have to

:19:57.:20:02.

be honoured. Those responsibilities have to be honoured. Imagine for one

:20:03.:20:09.

moment what would happen were this not to happen? I want to reach an

:20:10.:20:17.

agreement on behalf of the 27, and I said in front of the committee of

:20:18.:20:23.

the region is what I see, we are trying to problems, we wish to

:20:24.:20:29.

resolve problems. Michel Barnier, the Brussels top negotiator when it

:20:30.:20:33.

comes to Britain's Brexit talks will stop was talking about Britain's

:20:34.:20:39.

liabilities. Yes, don't be fooled by the diplomatic Suave demeanour of Mr

:20:40.:20:43.

Barnier committee were saying basically bring it on. He says they

:20:44.:20:52.

will tot up the sums, Britain has made common undertakings and there

:20:53.:20:54.

will be an incontestable final amount which Britain will be

:20:55.:20:58.

expected to pay. We did not get clarity on whether it was ?100

:20:59.:21:05.

billion, but Mr Ban a will be suggesting it is non-negotiable --

:21:06.:21:10.

Mr Barnier. That gives you a sense of his determination to drive a very

:21:11.:21:15.

hard bargain indeed. Clearly somewhat impatient with the way this

:21:16.:21:19.

has dragged on. He said we have had ten months of uncertainty, the clock

:21:20.:21:22.

is ticking, in other words get on with it. He suggested it will be

:21:23.:21:29.

difficult, Brexit would lead to material consequences for Britain,

:21:30.:21:32.

and he also raised a question about whether Mrs May will be able to get

:21:33.:21:36.

this deal signed, sealed and delivered within two years, saying

:21:37.:21:40.

this can't be done quickly. Be in no doubt Michel Barnier is one tough

:21:41.:21:44.

cookie and he will drive a hard, hard bargain. Yes, he said it is not

:21:45.:21:50.

an exit bill, a punishment, it is just what Britain owes. So Brexit

:21:51.:21:53.

will be a big deal for quite a few people when it comes to the

:21:54.:22:02.

general election in the UK. But how much interest is there broadly in

:22:03.:22:07.

this election? Only 66% of those registered to vote actually bother

:22:08.:22:11.

to do so in the last election two years ago. The last general

:22:12.:22:16.

election. That compares to 84% back in 1950. This morning we are

:22:17.:22:21.

speaking to a group of people who simply don't vote.

:22:22.:22:26.

Chelsea Stewart is a 30-year-old business owner.

:22:27.:22:27.

Josie Cruse is 50, but she says she can't remember ever voting.

:22:28.:22:31.

She's 38 and works for a local radio station and has never voted.

:22:32.:22:40.

Mohamed Sangarie is 23, an accountant and a city trader.

:22:41.:22:42.

He's not sure, but thinks he might have voted once.

:22:43.:22:45.

Also here is Ade Onibada from Bite the Ballot which aims to get young

:22:46.:22:48.

people engaged with politics so they can feel empowered

:22:49.:22:50.

Tell us why you have never voted. My reason for not voting is quite

:22:51.:23:06.

simple. If we are given the power to vote for someone to be in power, I

:23:07.:23:10.

don't understand why we have now say after that. There is this big thing

:23:11.:23:15.

put together in order to get us to vote, but my question after that is

:23:16.:23:19.

what after that? What more power do I have after that? Well, you have

:23:20.:23:26.

local council elections, but broadly speaking you have to wait for the

:23:27.:23:29.

next general election. That's not good for you. That is not good

:23:30.:23:36.

enough for me. I think there is too much say over myself as an

:23:37.:23:39.

individual by people that they do not know, that I do not sit and

:23:40.:23:42.

discuss anything with and who do not know me personally. And they

:23:43.:23:46.

generalise how they are going to govern my life and I just don't

:23:47.:23:52.

agree with that. I completely understand what your grievance is. I

:23:53.:23:58.

know all of the arguments that people who don't vote have. It took

:23:59.:24:02.

a process for me to feel differently about that. I definitely feel

:24:03.:24:07.

politics is in need of shaking up and rebranding, as far as greater

:24:08.:24:11.

accountability. Your MP does have surgery hours but a lot of people

:24:12.:24:19.

don't know that. Once beat you have the opportunity to meet with them as

:24:20.:24:22.

far as what you want to take up with them but I completely understand

:24:23.:24:26.

where you are coming from, as far as not feeling like one person you see

:24:27.:24:29.

once every four years, it is not good enough and I completely agree

:24:30.:24:33.

with you there. Chelsea, what about you, never voted. No. I feel like I

:24:34.:24:39.

don't have enough information to make a decision of that scale. To

:24:40.:24:44.

bring it back down really basic, when I make a decision for my

:24:45.:24:49.

company and my business, I do that based on, you know, facts, and

:24:50.:24:55.

things that can be held accountable. I don't believe a lot of the white

:24:56.:25:03.

noise thrown at me through media. You don't have any real control over

:25:04.:25:07.

it. Everyone is trying to look great when they are fighting for their

:25:08.:25:10.

job, everyone will say exactly what you want to hear. I just like the

:25:11.:25:15.

agendas of the agendas. I am not going to make that much of a

:25:16.:25:18.

difference. As I said, I don't have enough information. I didn't vote

:25:19.:25:24.

for Brexit, because that is such a huge decision, and if I don't have

:25:25.:25:28.

the right information, I don't want to have that responsibility. What

:25:29.:25:32.

did you think of the outcome of the Brexit vote? I didn't think it would

:25:33.:25:37.

happen, I didn't think it would be allowed, I just didn't think it

:25:38.:25:40.

would ever happen. I understand why it happened. People want to change.

:25:41.:25:47.

People are bored. What would you say the Chelsea? As far as not

:25:48.:25:50.

understanding the value of your vote, I completely understand the

:25:51.:25:54.

stop a lot of people think that my one vote won't make a difference. I

:25:55.:25:58.

understand the value of it, and just because you have the right to

:25:59.:26:00.

exercise something doesn't mean you always should. I have the right to

:26:01.:26:06.

eat ten chocolate bars a day, I'm not going to because it is not

:26:07.:26:12.

beneficial. I just think as well if I am going to make a decision that

:26:13.:26:15.

big, I need to have all those facts. I think if you are going to give me

:26:16.:26:19.

the responsibility to vote, you have the responsibility to give me the

:26:20.:26:23.

information to make that informed decision. So you don't feel like MPs

:26:24.:26:27.

are politicians give enough information? I am 30 now, but when I

:26:28.:26:33.

was in school we didn't have that information so readily available. We

:26:34.:26:36.

just weren't educated, it wasn't really important. Maybe if I had

:26:37.:26:40.

heard that from a younger age I would have taken more of an interest

:26:41.:26:44.

in it, I would understand it more. But a lot of the time it is fluff,

:26:45.:26:51.

it is noise. Political literacy is what we are trying to push for. As

:26:52.:26:54.

far as being change-makers or looking for solutions. You can't

:26:55.:27:00.

expect someone to know the language, now the process. I think that is

:27:01.:27:06.

part of it. Regular people like myself are excluded from these

:27:07.:27:08.

things deliberately. They chuck a load of noise and fluff at you to

:27:09.:27:12.

keep you exactly where they want you to be. I would love to be able to

:27:13.:27:17.

say I will want to vote for Labour or Conservative, I would love to say

:27:18.:27:20.

I believe in what they are going to do. I just don't. Don't you think in

:27:21.:27:25.

you making that decision not to vote, you have basically delivered

:27:26.:27:30.

what they want, if you feel like you are being deliberately excluded? I

:27:31.:27:35.

have never said I would never vote. If there was a campaign that touched

:27:36.:27:39.

on things that mean something to me, that can relate to me and my

:27:40.:27:44.

situation, my family, my circles, my lifetime, I would jump on it, of

:27:45.:27:50.

course I would. But you use hospitals to you, schools? Public

:27:51.:27:56.

service is? I do. You run a business, so you pay income tax,

:27:57.:27:59.

national insurance, I mean, these are all things that politicians are

:28:00.:28:04.

talking about. Yes, and unfortunately they say one thing was

:28:05.:28:07.

they are running for election and the complete other thing happens

:28:08.:28:12.

when they are in. Josie and Mohamed, use share something in common new

:28:13.:28:16.

thing you have voted once but you both can't remember. No, I am a bit

:28:17.:28:22.

what has been said here, I am 50 years of age, so I have watched the

:28:23.:28:26.

elections years ago and watched the campaigns, and I decided not to

:28:27.:28:30.

bother, because I think they just lie, to be honest with you. We get a

:28:31.:28:34.

lot of propaganda with it. I choose not to watch it. You think all

:28:35.:28:41.

politicians lie? No, I don't know why that happens, but I just think

:28:42.:28:46.

what we get fed, don't really understand what they are saying. I

:28:47.:28:49.

don't think they always tell the truth with people. It doesn't follow

:28:50.:28:55.

through. Things like with the VAT got decreased for a while and then

:28:56.:28:58.

increased to a high level, and they said it would be put back down for

:28:59.:29:02.

stuff that has stayed the same. So what gets said and what gets done

:29:03.:29:06.

are two different things. I have a small business and it really affects

:29:07.:29:09.

trying to run a business. I just feel what gets promised doesn't

:29:10.:29:15.

happen. So for me, I don't choose to get involved with that. I fully

:29:16.:29:22.

agree. I seem to always see the manifestos, and they never seem to,

:29:23.:29:29.

like, they don't seem to fulfil what they say, what they say they are

:29:30.:29:35.

going to do. So I have kind of lost faith. If you look at history, the

:29:36.:29:41.

government and politicians or whoever, kings and queens, they have

:29:42.:29:44.

never really cared for people, so it is for the people to wake up and

:29:45.:29:47.

realise that these people don't care for you. That is kind of

:29:48.:29:51.

self-explanatory. For me, if you look at history, there has aways

:29:52.:29:54.

been this feud between the poor and the rich between the haves and

:29:55.:29:59.

have-nots. You have to assess it and make your own judgment and see if

:30:00.:30:05.

these people really care. Completely understanding everybody's reverence

:30:06.:30:09.

is on what they have issues with. As far as where you go from promises to

:30:10.:30:16.

what is delivered, that is where we talk about having points of greater

:30:17.:30:20.

accountability, it happens when you vote, when you are part of the

:30:21.:30:23.

process, when you are able to force things. If a party brings you a

:30:24.:30:26.

manifesto that you don't like and if you are part of that party and you

:30:27.:30:30.

say this isn't good enough, you have that voice to say that isn't good

:30:31.:30:34.

enough. I just think point-blank saying that I am going to step aside

:30:35.:30:39.

from this whole system or step back is not part of the solution.

:30:40.:30:43.

Everyone here has an issue. But rather than talking about the

:30:44.:30:49.

issues, then what are the solutions? Would it not be to educate the

:30:50.:30:54.

younger generation about financial literacy... Yes, of course,

:30:55.:30:58.

financial Tracy Porter and political literacy. Wie so why hasn't it been

:30:59.:31:05.

done? So why hasn't it been done? It is part of their manifesto not to do

:31:06.:31:08.

it. If you are not registered to vote and you don't vote, guess what?

:31:09.:31:13.

You are invisible. If you don't do politics, politics will do you.

:31:14.:31:22.

It is probably not the right attitude, we need someone to be

:31:23.:31:29.

running the country. I feel there is a quite a few lies told. Do you care

:31:30.:31:34.

if you're invisible? Yes, but I can't be part of something I don't

:31:35.:31:38.

particularly believe in. Let me read some messages. Mark says, "I

:31:39.:31:43.

despair. It is plain lazy and disrespectful not to vote." Go on,

:31:44.:31:50.

you're laughing Chelsea. It amuses me. Why? It is not lazy in the

:31:51.:31:55.

slightest. I have done research. I've looked into it. I think, you

:31:56.:31:59.

know, you are saying about being invisible. I could vote, I will

:32:00.:32:03.

still be invisible. Nothing is really going to change.

:32:04.:32:08.

Kevin says, "I can't believe the ignorant people on your programme

:32:09.:32:13.

this morning who don't vote." Stupid excuses they are, it won't

:32:14.:32:16.

make a difference or not enough information.

:32:17.:32:22.

Peter, "Non vote, are a disgrace. It should be compulsory." What do you

:32:23.:32:27.

think of that idea? Being forced to vote? That's the reason I don't

:32:28.:32:31.

vote. I have the right and I think people should take that very

:32:32.:32:36.

seriously. Having the right to do or not to do. I think in this country

:32:37.:32:41.

we have a problem with the right. We'll tell somebody they have the

:32:42.:32:46.

right, but then if we're not following the crowd we're wrong. So

:32:47.:32:51.

you say you're exercising a choice? I work for myself. So to not vote

:32:52.:32:56.

doesn't make me lazy. I've exercised a choice the Have you contemplated

:32:57.:33:01.

spoiling your ballot. That's a credible option. I get a lot of

:33:02.:33:05.

people who say nobody on this ballot paper represents me. Nobody has

:33:06.:33:09.

given me something to aspire to or something I want and I say well,

:33:10.:33:14.

spoil your ballot paper and spoil it correctly. Explain how you spoil it

:33:15.:33:19.

correctly? You have to put the X outside the box or you put the X

:33:20.:33:24.

through the entire ballot paper, but what it does, I feel like it sends a

:33:25.:33:29.

better message. A lot of people don't know that though. This is what

:33:30.:33:34.

you do as far as campaigning. So it is just a great big cross like that.

:33:35.:33:40.

How many people can do that? Well, we tell as many young people as we

:33:41.:33:47.

can. That's the existence of Bite The Ballot. Is that something that

:33:48.:33:52.

would appeal to you or not? People are entitled to their opinion, but

:33:53.:33:56.

my opinion stands where it is. Until they shake the system up and shake

:33:57.:34:01.

up our information, carry out promises then I'm going to...

:34:02.:34:06.

Whonchts is going to do the shaking? The people with the money, isn't it?

:34:07.:34:10.

So if you assume that the people with the money are going to do the

:34:11.:34:14.

shaking for you, buff explained they are happy to keep you in the

:34:15.:34:19.

position that you're in... Look at history. It has never been done so

:34:20.:34:23.

what makes you think it will happen in our generation or our time? What

:34:24.:34:27.

makes you think that will be successful? I'm happy that I work

:34:28.:34:32.

with an organisation that's committed to shaking. It starts with

:34:33.:34:36.

individuals like myself who say I'm to the going to sit on the sidelines

:34:37.:34:40.

and be upset with how things are working. Things aren't working in my

:34:41.:34:44.

favour, I'm seeing people receipting me that don't represent me, I don't

:34:45.:34:50.

like the language in Westminster. I don't like politics is so far

:34:51.:34:55.

removed from me. From when you are a business owner and you use services,

:34:56.:35:03.

I wouldn't say voting should be manttry, but being on the voting

:35:04.:35:08.

register should be. Everybody should be registered to vote. Thank you.

:35:09.:35:13.

Good luck with your businesses. Thank you.

:35:14.:35:17.

On the day the election was announced, we took two people

:35:18.:35:20.

who don't really care about politics to parliament for the day.

:35:21.:35:22.

I mean, do you feel Parliament represents you or do you feel

:35:23.:35:25.

it's something that's there as sort of...?

:35:26.:35:27.

I think, I suppose no, we don't really feel it does

:35:28.:35:29.

represent us because we don't understand how it works.

:35:30.:35:32.

That's the thing, you don't learn about politics at school.

:35:33.:35:38.

I personally think maybe people should.

:35:39.:35:45.

We have a peculiar way of speaking to each other

:35:46.:35:51.

Which is I don't refer to you, I refer to the honourable,

:35:52.:35:55.

or Right Honourable lady, which would be you, or member.

:35:56.:35:57.

The reason for that is I speak to you in the third person

:35:58.:36:00.

because it's very difficult to be personally abusive, although some

:36:01.:36:03.

And you can watch that full film - MP For A Day:

:36:04.:36:11.

Who Cares About Politics on the BBC iPlayer page.

:36:12.:36:13.

We've also posted a link on Twitter and Facebook.

:36:14.:36:21.

And we'll be on the road over the next couple of weeks travelling

:36:22.:36:24.

to different corners of the UK to see what you - the voters -

:36:25.:36:28.

Before election day itself we'll be in the Scottish borders

:36:29.:36:33.

But we kick things off next week in Cornwall.

:36:34.:36:36.

So if you live in or know those places then get in touch

:36:37.:36:39.

to give us a better sense of what issues matter to you.

:36:40.:36:42.

We want your suggestions of places to visit and people to talk to.

:36:43.:36:45.

We will speak to the students in this photo. New rules intended to

:36:46.:36:56.

re-Tuesday the amount of time people could be spent on police bail could

:36:57.:36:58.

make things worse. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

:36:59.:37:05.

with a summary of today's news. The EU's chief Brexit negotiator,

:37:06.:37:08.

Michel Barnier, has warned that reaching an agreement with the UK

:37:09.:37:10.

over its departure Speaking as he published the EU's

:37:11.:37:13.

plans for the two years of talks, Mr Barnier said Britain should be

:37:14.:37:17.

under no illusion about the process and would have to pay

:37:18.:37:20.

for commitments it has made Some have created the illusion that

:37:21.:37:37.

Brexit would have no material impact on our lives or that negotiations

:37:38.:37:43.

can be concluded quickly and painlessly. This is not the case.

:37:44.:37:51.

Today marks ten years since the disappearance

:37:52.:37:53.

of Madeleine McCann, The BBC's Panorama programme has

:37:54.:37:55.

learnt that Portuguese detectives never believed the main British

:37:56.:37:57.

police theory that the toddler was taken during a burglary gone wrong.

:37:58.:38:00.

The three-year-old went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da

:38:01.:38:03.

Despite extensive international inquiries, no firm leads have been

:38:04.:38:06.

found and the investigations remain open.

:38:07.:38:13.

The Sun newspaper says thousands of the new one

:38:14.:38:15.

pound coins have cracked, because of flaws

:38:16.:38:17.

The coins which came into circulation in March

:38:18.:38:20.

But the newspaper says it has seen evidence that the pound can be

:38:21.:38:26.

warped and in some cases, the distinctive centre

:38:27.:38:28.

That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC

:38:29.:38:37.

Last night was another evening on which Cristiano Ronaldo wowed

:38:38.:38:50.

He scored a hat-trick in Real Madrid's 3-0

:38:51.:38:53.

Champions League semi final first leg win over city rivals Atletico

:38:54.:38:56.

and stay on course to win the trophy for the third time in four years.

:38:57.:39:00.

Colin Jackson believes his entire career will be tarnished

:39:01.:39:02.

if proposals to scrap athletics world records set before

:39:03.:39:04.

The European Athletics Taskforce thinks erasing records set

:39:05.:39:07.

from before doping samples were retained, could help

:39:08.:39:09.

After appearing at three Olympic Games, the 11-time British javelin

:39:10.:39:18.

Champion Goldie Sayers has announced her retirement

:39:19.:39:20.

She's still waiting to find out if she'll be awarded bronze

:39:21.:39:24.

for the Beijing Games where the athlete ahead of her

:39:25.:39:26.

And world number one Andy Murray says he expects Maria Sharapova

:39:27.:39:31.

to be given wildcard entry into this year's Wimbledon qualifiers.

:39:32.:39:34.

Former champion Sharapova recently returned to competition

:39:35.:39:36.

That's all the sport for now. I will have more in Newsroom Live after

:39:37.:39:44.

11am. "Young black men don't grow up

:39:45.:39:48.

thinking they'll make it here. That was the intended message behind

:39:49.:39:51.

this photo of 14 black male students They got together to

:39:52.:39:55.

pose because in 2015 - of the 3,400 new undergraduates

:39:56.:39:58.

accepted into the university - 23 black women were

:39:59.:40:00.

accepted that year. We can speak now

:40:01.:40:12.

to some of them now. Jimi Babasola is 20,

:40:13.:40:23.

and is an international He studies theology,

:40:24.:40:25.

religion and philosophy. And in our Cambridge

:40:26.:40:33.

studio is Ore Ogunbiyi She's 19 and is currently

:40:34.:40:37.

President of the university's Whose idea was it? I got in touch

:40:38.:40:48.

with the committee. We pulled together a few guys that we knew and

:40:49.:40:54.

I got the ra and I said, "Let's make it happen." Tell us more? I came to

:40:55.:41:07.

the UK for A-levels and diversity. And the message you want to send

:41:08.:41:13.

from this photo? To encourage young black men to believe that they can

:41:14.:41:18.

come here. There is this image basically that they may have about

:41:19.:41:22.

what the average or the typical Cambridge student is like and they

:41:23.:41:27.

feel they won't fit in here. We want to get the message out that they

:41:28.:41:31.

will and there is a place for them here. Peter, what do you think the

:41:32.:41:37.

stereotypical image of a came bridge under graduate is? That's a very

:41:38.:41:41.

good question. Often not people who look like us. I think the archetypal

:41:42.:41:47.

image of a Cambridge student is typically someone who is maybe

:41:48.:41:52.

Caucasian and doesn't come from backgrounds like us so it is

:41:53.:41:55.

important we challenge the stereotypes because perception is

:41:56.:41:59.

key. What is your background, Peter, if you don't mind me asking? I grew

:42:00.:42:05.

up in East Londonment my parents are from Nigeria and that's about it

:42:06.:42:07.

really. Right. What's your experience been like at Cambridge?

:42:08.:42:11.

My experience has been quite interesting. It has been quite

:42:12.:42:15.

interesting. In terms of this issue specifically I feel that there are a

:42:16.:42:18.

lot of initiatives that are being done so we've got the likes of the

:42:19.:42:26.

ACS and the fly network and the race equality which are trying to balance

:42:27.:42:30.

out the under representations of people like myself being at the

:42:31.:42:34.

institution, but my experience has been quite interesting so far.

:42:35.:42:39.

Jimmy, in terms of you wanting to get this message out there, I mean,

:42:40.:42:43.

this photo has been shared, I don't know how many times. So it's

:42:44.:42:53.

working. Yeah. Yes, it is. And it is really important to stress it to

:42:54.:42:55.

everyone. Everyone has the potential to get here should not think they

:42:56.:42:59.

don't have the opportunity because they do and that's the big problem

:43:00.:43:03.

we are having with young people. But you have got to put some work in?

:43:04.:43:09.

Yes, yes, definitely. You must be delighted with the way this has been

:43:10.:43:13.

shared around the world? Yeah, definitely, certainly. It's

:43:14.:43:16.

unprecedented. I don't think we thought we would get this amount of

:43:17.:43:21.

responses. It has been crazy, but we have to obviously, the point is that

:43:22.:43:25.

the university can do all these amazing things, but if we are not

:43:26.:43:28.

encouraging people out there to apply, we won't change the numbers

:43:29.:43:32.

and the message was to empower and we can inspire young black people

:43:33.:43:38.

there and encourage them that Cambridge is within their reach and

:43:39.:43:42.

we have been really proud to have been part of this. Thank you very

:43:43.:43:44.

much for talking to us. Cambridge University have told us

:43:45.:43:50.

in a statement, "We aim to widen participation whilst maintaining

:43:51.:43:53.

high academic standards. We will continue to work hard

:43:54.:43:54.

with all parties to raise aspirations and attainment

:43:55.:43:57.

to improve access The banking giant JP Morgan has

:43:58.:43:58.

announced plans to move hundreds of its London-based bankers out

:43:59.:44:05.

of the UK into other parts of the EU With me is BBC Business

:44:06.:44:09.

Presenter Vishala Sri-Pathma. Tell us more? They are deciding to

:44:10.:44:24.

move hundreds of jobs from their London based banks to their European

:44:25.:44:28.

offices. These are existing office they have in Dublin, Frankfurt, and

:44:29.:44:33.

also Luxembourg. So they're not actually opening more offices in

:44:34.:44:37.

Europe, but they are relocating the balance from London. They are going

:44:38.:44:41.

to do that as soon as we leave the single market here in Britainment

:44:42.:44:44.

they think it is the best way to ensure services are going to be

:44:45.:44:46.

smooth for their clients after we leave. OK. So they are not going to

:44:47.:44:50.

wait for Britain to come up with a trade deal with the other 27 EU

:44:51.:44:53.

nations. They are just taking that decision? That's right. It is not

:44:54.:44:58.

hugely surprising, the boss of JP Morgan did say that he might be

:44:59.:45:04.

relocating up to 4,000 jobs after Brexit. He didn't confirm whether it

:45:05.:45:09.

was going to be more or less in January. It has been a long time

:45:10.:45:13.

coming. We had Deutsche Bank saying last week they would move 4,000

:45:14.:45:19.

because of Brexit. That's quite a considerable amount and Barclays as

:45:20.:45:23.

well have said they are going to activate their back-up plan in the

:45:24.:45:25.

next six months as well. Thank you very much.

:45:26.:45:30.

Next to the US town of Huntingdon, in the state of West Virginia,

:45:31.:45:33.

where the rate of people dying from drug overdoses is more than ten

:45:34.:45:36.

The local authorities say the city and surrounding county

:45:37.:45:41.

are in the grip of a heroin epidemic, with more than 1 in 10

:45:42.:45:45.

residents thought to suffer from addiction to prescription

:45:46.:45:46.

drugs, heroin and stronger opioid drugs.

:45:47.:45:54.

They pin the cause of the epidemic on prescription painkillers,

:45:55.:45:56.

which were freely available until recently.

:45:57.:45:58.

They claim that when there was a clamp-down on the pills,

:45:59.:46:00.

Now they're taking legal action against the companies they allege

:46:01.:46:04.

brought addiction to Huntington by the oversupply of

:46:05.:46:06.

Meanwhile, Huntington's emergency services are stretched thin dealing

:46:07.:46:12.

with at times around five overdoses a day.

:46:13.:46:14.

A warning -- this film by our video journalists Tom Bateman

:46:15.:46:16.

and Howard Johnson contains distressing images from

:46:17.:46:18.

the very beginning - it lasts around eight mins.

:46:19.:46:29.

the very beginning - it lasts around four mins.

:46:30.:46:32.

Steve Williams, Mayor of the City of Huntington, West Virginia.

:46:33.:47:10.

Huntington is a town of just under 50,000 people,

:47:11.:47:13.

Yet over a five-year period, just a five-year period,

:47:14.:47:16.

there was over 40 million doses of opiates that were distributed

:47:17.:47:18.

Most of our call-outs now are for drugs.

:47:19.:47:45.

They probably make up somewhere around a third of our calls.

:47:46.:47:47.

Fires, generally, are about 15% to 10% of our calls,

:47:48.:47:50.

of a middle-aged male in a local grocery store.

:47:51.:48:14.

He's been reported 911 and we're currently there now.

:48:15.:48:23.

It's been a while since you've done it?

:48:24.:48:36.

Done it, or you been doing it for a while?

:48:37.:48:38.

Go ahead, stand up here, we're going to stand up

:48:39.:48:43.

Can I just ask you, did you start on opioids first

:48:44.:48:48.

Uh, just, I was, I was on pain pills, and actually I've been

:48:49.:48:57.

I would just as soon be able to hear from these companies that say,

:48:58.:49:06.

we'll come in and we'll partner with you to be able to fight

:49:07.:49:09.

this addiction rather than spend their time saying,

:49:10.:49:11.

it's not our fault, we're just a business.

:49:12.:49:16.

When I was in the investment business, if I was giving advice

:49:17.:49:20.

to somebody that caused harm to them, I would lose my

:49:21.:49:22.

career, lose my licence, and possibly have to pay money.

:49:23.:49:26.

And there's plenty of harm that we can point to all around.

:49:27.:49:54.

The drugs epidemic in the US state of west Virginia.

:49:55.:49:58.

People kept on police bail for months, or even years,

:49:59.:50:01.

say it left them feeling suicidal and unable to move

:50:02.:50:03.

New rules mean people can now only be kept on bail for 28 days but this

:50:04.:50:10.

programme has heard from senior police officers and defence lawyers

:50:11.:50:13.

that in reality it won't change the length of time people

:50:14.:50:21.

are investigated for - and may even be counterproductive.

:50:22.:50:24.

The Police Federation of England

:50:25.:50:25.

is simply unrealistic for complex investigations.

:50:26.:50:28.

We played you our reporter John Owen's full film earlier -

:50:29.:50:31.

Pre-charge bail is a police power that allows a suspect to be

:50:32.:50:46.

released from custody whilst a crime is investigated.

:50:47.:50:48.

With an obligation to return for further questioning,

:50:49.:50:49.

Thousands of people spend time on pre-charge bail every year.

:50:50.:50:58.

Some spend many months under police scrutiny before even

:50:59.:51:00.

A few weeks ago, new restrictions came into effect designed to reduce

:51:01.:51:04.

the length of time that suspects spend under investigation.

:51:05.:51:11.

The new rules say that the length of time a person can be kept

:51:12.:51:14.

on pre-charge bail will be limited to an initial 28 days,

:51:15.:51:17.

but that a senior police officer can extend a person's bail time up

:51:18.:51:21.

After that, a magistrate can grant further extensions.

:51:22.:51:24.

But as the new rules come into effect, this programme has

:51:25.:51:27.

heard concerns that it won't address the problem they are

:51:28.:51:29.

These new rules don't do anything to ensure that investigations

:51:30.:51:33.

in general are going to be resolved more swiftly.

:51:34.:51:35.

Under the old rules would be bailed and given a date

:51:36.:51:39.

Now, that might be an illusory date, but at least there is something

:51:40.:51:43.

for that person to see the police are working to words.

:51:44.:51:46.

There isn't going to be any sort of framework like that

:51:47.:51:48.

for what is likely to be the majority of people released

:51:49.:51:51.

from the police station still under investigation but prior to charge.

:51:52.:51:54.

And I fear that what we are going to find is that investigations

:51:55.:51:57.

overall will actually take longer to resolve than they did

:51:58.:51:59.

As well as concerns from senior police officers

:52:00.:52:10.

We have a police service that is on its knees.

:52:11.:52:14.

28 days just simply is not realistic.

:52:15.:52:20.

David Prince spent two years under police investigation

:52:21.:52:22.

after being caught up in a complex fraud case.

:52:23.:52:25.

He was unaware of any proceedings against him until ?31,000

:52:26.:52:28.

suddenly disappeared from his business account.

:52:29.:52:30.

As the investigation progressed, he had almost 50 items of personal

:52:31.:52:33.

property confiscated, and the police throws

:52:34.:52:35.

He describes the psychological pressure of spending time

:52:36.:52:43.

I'd sold everything that I owned of any value.

:52:44.:52:49.

A lot of the depression kicked in after I was arrested

:52:50.:52:55.

And so a few months after that, I attempted to commit suicide,

:52:56.:52:59.

and for another twice after that I attempted to commit

:53:00.:53:01.

You attempted suicide on three occasions?

:53:02.:53:14.

You must have been in a very dark place.

:53:15.:53:18.

Having your whole life turned upside down, everything

:53:19.:53:23.

taken away from you, your business taken away from you,

:53:24.:53:26.

your personal accounts taken away from you.

:53:27.:53:28.

You feel like you've had a crime done to you by the state.

:53:29.:53:37.

Let's talk now to former Met Police Chief Superintendent, Dal Babu -

:53:38.:53:40.

he says the Home Office is simplifying the bail process

:53:41.:53:43.

Also David Prince, who you saw in that film who spent two years

:53:44.:53:49.

on police bail and says he became suicidal as a result

:53:50.:53:52.

of the stress and financial ruin that the investigation brought him.

:53:53.:53:55.

Also here is criminal lawyer Nick Barnard -

:53:56.:53:57.

he's encouraged by the cap and says if police investigations

:53:58.:53:59.

were quick enough, the change wouldn't have been needed.

:54:00.:54:01.

Mr Ban at, as a criminal solicitor you are encouraged by this reform? I

:54:02.:54:06.

think it is a start, it is not a silver bullet. Resources need to

:54:07.:54:08.

progress along with attitudes along with it but it is good that the law

:54:09.:54:12.

is recognised that a good place to start addressing it is that the

:54:13.:54:18.

police station. You talked eloquently about the impact

:54:19.:54:23.

physically and mentally. Tell us about the damage to your repetition

:54:24.:54:28.

that prolonged bailed it to you. I worked in quite a small industry so

:54:29.:54:31.

word had got around about the industry and about the case. So I

:54:32.:54:37.

found businesses I had traditionally dealt with and certainly was in

:54:38.:54:42.

negotiations with longer took my call is all returned my calls. So I

:54:43.:54:47.

found my marketplace that I had worked so hard to get, I had no

:54:48.:54:58.

access to any more. Tamme one, what reform tonne difference will this

:54:59.:55:02.

make -- Dal Babu, what difference will dismay? Very little in my view.

:55:03.:55:08.

The average case is 56 days. I think it is a knee jerk reaction from some

:55:09.:55:13.

of the high profile cases, where individuals have been on sale for a

:55:14.:55:20.

long time. -- been on bail. The reality of the situation is pleased

:55:21.:55:24.

that have gone down by 20,000. We are having a system where they are

:55:25.:55:28.

expecting police to complete this to patients in 28 days. I'm not sure

:55:29.:55:36.

they are expecting that, what has changed is this bail bit. An

:55:37.:55:39.

investigation can go on for as long as it goes on for, is that fair?

:55:40.:55:47.

That's right. So in practical terms will it make that much difference

:55:48.:55:53.

the suspects? If you were given the choice to having to say to a

:55:54.:55:58.

customer, and a player, a new partner, yes, I was arrested and I

:55:59.:56:03.

am still on Bale, 30 years, was interviewed but released without

:56:04.:56:06.

condition and the investigation is ongoing, I think the latter is

:56:07.:56:11.

preferable. Do you agree, David? I do. My main concern with the whole

:56:12.:56:16.

process is I was arrested so early on in the process, I think the

:56:17.:56:23.

police should have done more work prior to the arrest. In a way it

:56:24.:56:29.

puts the onus on the police to work harder to get correct information.

:56:30.:56:36.

20,000 less police officers in the last seven years. The reality is

:56:37.:56:39.

forensically sources have been reduced. It is not realistic. I

:56:40.:56:45.

think the difficulty is if you are on Bale, at least you know you are

:56:46.:56:49.

on Bale. There are checks and balances. If you don't know you are

:56:50.:56:53.

on bail, then in some ways you don't actually know what is happening. My

:56:54.:56:58.

concern is it is a knee jerk reaction, the government over simple

:56:59.:57:01.

fight it. I have not met a single police officer who said this is a

:57:02.:57:05.

good idea. You have an National Chief police council, the Police

:57:06.:57:09.

Federation, and I think your clip that you showed really emphasised

:57:10.:57:14.

that they all agree it is not going to be a good idea. As a get out of

:57:15.:57:23.

jail card for the government, effectively we are back to where we

:57:24.:57:27.

are, and then if necessary magistrates can extend it beyond

:57:28.:57:30.

that. It is a poorly thought out programme. They have not really

:57:31.:57:33.

understood the consequences of people who actually are in the

:57:34.:57:37.

business. People in the business say it will not work. Is it going to

:57:38.:57:42.

work? One final point about the safety of people as well. Sometimes

:57:43.:57:45.

you arrest the vote you keep them on Bale. The danger is that you can't

:57:46.:57:51.

those people, those restrictions. They might disappear but they might

:57:52.:57:55.

actually go and attack individuals as well. If there is evidence that

:57:56.:58:04.

suspects are member is of the public, they can still be on Bale.

:58:05.:58:11.

-- on bail. And the suggestion that currently people who are on Bale are

:58:12.:58:15.

somehow better informed than people who are not, think the word used in

:58:16.:58:21.

the clip was that bail boots are illusory. Thank you for the thanks

:58:22.:58:24.

for all of you coming on the programme. Thank you for your

:58:25.:58:26.

company today. Have a good day. Come on, come on, come on,

:58:27.:58:33.

come on, come on! The challenges are about to get

:58:34.:58:38.

a lot tougher. Our nine best cooks

:58:39.:58:40.

all fighting it out because one of them is going

:58:41.:58:45.

to be our champion.

:58:46.:58:49.

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