05/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Good morning. It is Monday, nine o'clock. Police investigating the

terror attack in central London on Saturday night say they now know the

identity of the three men who killed seven people and injured dozens of

others. The very high priority for us is to try to understand whether

they were working with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved

with the planning. To find out the background to it.

Police are searching two addresses in east London.

Prime Minister Theresa May has been chairing a Cobra meeting.

The so-called Islamic State group has claimed responsibility.

When we do intervene in foreign policy we are blamed by jihadists,

Where we don't intervene, like in Syria, we are

blamed again by jihadists for not caring about Muslim lives.

The first victim of the attack has been named as Christine Archibald,

who was from Canada. Her family said she would have had no understanding

of the callous cruelty that caused her death.

In a show of unity, defiance and hope,

some of the worlds leading artists joined forces with Ariane Grade

to raise money for the 22 people killed in a suicide bombing at that

I love you guys so much, and I think that the kind of love

and unity that you're displaying is the medicine that the world

So I want to thank you for being just that.

Hello, good morning. This is Borough Market in south-east London and this

is where three men, armed with knives, attacked revellers from all

over the world on Saturday night in bars and restaurants as they were

out having a good time. This morning, it is chilly, it is breezy,

the rows behind me are closed because there is a police

investigation going on. Over that way, vehicles and people... Excuse

me. Although not as many as usual on Monday morning, vehicles and people

are trying to find their way around the closed roads. London Bridge is

closed to traffic. That is where the three men in that white van

zigzagged across the bridge and run into pedestrians. It is open to

pedestrians this morning. I was talking to one woman who always

crosses that bridge, walks across it every morning on her way to work.

She said it was eerily quiet this morning. Tonight, a vigil will be

held to mark the terror attack this weekend that killed seven people and

left dozens of others seriously injured.

Onto the bridge on the left-hand side here, I saw a body on the left.

There was a car with the hazard lights on.

It was a cyclist, so I feel it's just another accident,

another cyclist, and then I saw two bodies

on the right-hand side, towards northbound.

And then I had to stop at the traffic lights and I saw

another body on the left next to the bus stop.

And they run up, they stabbed this girl, I don't

know how many times, ten times, maybe 15 times.

She was going, "Help me, help me," and I could not do nothing.

They were saying, "This is for Allah," and people,

you could hear them screaming, they were getting stabbed.

Many, many people risked their own safety to help others and to treat

those seriously injured, and indeed to confront

The suspects were wearing what looked like explosive vests,

but these were later established to be hoaxes.

Our country has made significant progress in disrupting plots

But it is time to say enough is enough.

Overnight, police have been searching properties in London as

part of the investigation. Detectives are trying to establish

if the three attackers had accomplices.

11 people are being held. We are going to talk to people that were

caught up in the attacks. Sonia Malhotra-Denny was paying

the bill at a restaurant in the heart of the siege and had

to hide in a broom cupboard. Eric Swiguenza was on the bridge

and saw the van run people over before the attackers went

on a rampage. And Richard Angell was

trapped in a restaurant "If they have a problem with me

having a G with my friends, flirting with handsome men

and hanging out with brilliant women, then I'm

going to do more of it." That is how you feel? Manchester

showed amazing response to such hate two we see go, now falls to London

to do the same. I think all of us are determined that this will not

divide us. They didn't discriminate about their victims, they didn't do

it in the name of any faith, they did it in the name of hatred and act

of cowardice. What I saw was brilliant people who responded,

somebody who gave us a heads up when they could have run away, somebody

threw tables at these people when they were stabbing a young woman,

somebody that put their way in front of the door so that people in my

restaurant were safe. The police force have swept the streets really

quickly. It felt like an age, but it was a short minutes and we were safe

again. When we were meandering from the streets, avoiding shoes that

people had kicked off, the blood, they had our eyes and ears. And the

paramedics who ran towards danger, then turn their back on danger to

put together the life in front of them. While we are running for our

lives. They are remarkable people and great Londoners. Where were you

and what happened? We were in the Brindisa, paying for our meal. A man

came up and said, everybody get up and run, they are stabbing people,

they have knives. We are showing the footage that you cook. We looked at

him, nobody reacted for a second. He said, get up, move, it's a terrorist

attack. We got up, another man came in, shouting something similar. It

was all open, it was a nice evening. We hid on the floor, as it is open,

it is hard to find somewhere to hide. Luckily, we found that some

people had opened up a room at the back. It was like a tiny storeroom.

I shouted to my husband Don said, --, I said, come on, let's run. We

were very fortunate that we could find refuge in there. I know others

were far less fortunate than we were in that restaurant. We read about

Oliver and Maria that were in the restaurant at the same time, the

same age as others, a couple like us, that unfortunately didn't have

time to get to safety. We are just thinking about them at the moment.

Of course, as we all are. Eric, hello to you. You managed to film

some footage as well. What he showed chaos, really. I know

you have had no sleep since Saturday, thanks for talking to us.

We are really grateful. Tell us what you saw and where you were? I was

with a friend, trying to get across to Monument. We saw the van driving

on the wrong side of the road. The front had been smashed in, you could

only see one headlight. It kept going to the left and right as if it

was trying to stop. I first thought was that maybe the brakes had failed

and this was a genuine accident. When it collided into a wall, people

were jumping out of the way. Nobody got hurt from the initial impact of

the van, but as soon as the three men stepped out, that is when,

instantly, they started attacking people. They ran at them with

knives, kicking them, just showing anger in their faces. That is when

me and my friend didn't really know what to do. They made their way

downstairs to Southwark Cathedral, where they had bars and pubs. People

were outside, enjoying themselves. That is when they went down there,

started attacking people. People didn't know what to do, they didn't

know what was happening. Most of them were caught off-guard, there

were getting stabbed, people were in disbelief as to what was happening.

But they got to the end, people realise what was happening and try

to defend themselves, throwing chairs, whatever they could to

defend themselves. That is when the terrorists realised they were

outnumbered and they turned around to head back towards the bridge.

Unfortunately there was a woman standing with her bag, trying to

realise what was going on. She was in the way and they stabbed her, she

felt the ground and they finished the job, stabbing her again. The

third one had disappeared. I don't know if he was making his way back

up bridge towards us. That is why we decided it was best to run away and

tell everybody they needed to get out. Extraordinary tales of people

trying to take on the attackers, and of duty police officer, British

Transport Police officer. I think you saw people throwing stuff at

these attackers? A remarkable man through bottles, tables, he tried to

throw a bike. He put our lives before his. I don't know who will be

able to meet the people that did heroic acts saved all of our lives.

We want to know they are remarkable people and we are so thankful. We

are safe because of them. You are grateful for those people, you have

said you feel so incredibly lucky. Monday morning, after this happened,

you have had at least 24 hours to reflect on this, what are you

feeling? Similar. Just really lucky, and really unlucky at the same time.

Right now, all of our emotions and feelings are going towards people

that had bad news, and whose families woke up to bad news. It was

hard enough for us having seen it. I can't imagine what it would be like

if it was worse. We are positive, but it is all about the victims.

Last night, the Manchester concert really showed the unity and

solidarity that this kind of event brings. We are bringing people

together, it will not divide us. It has made us stronger. We just have

to get on. We have them in our thoughts, but we have to move

forward. How are you feeling? I was speaking with friends and family

yesterday. They were saying how lucky me and my friend were to

escape with our lives. We know that many other people were not as lucky

as us. We just think that now you take into perspective that sometimes

you just have to carry on with your life, even though you come across

these obstacles. You just have to keep your head held high and keep

striving to move forward. What about you, Richard? You want to say a life

goes on and do keep remembering the seven people for whom it doesn't.

You know, to be one of those family members that are sitting by

somebody's bed right now, hoping that they come through, their

experiences are ones where they need that time to reflect. I am going

back to the restaurant that I went to come I think others are as well.

I have a bill to pay. You got to pay yours come I need to pay my bill. I

think they deserve a darn good tip for running in front of the door,

finding the key, keeping us safe. These are people that weren't always

born in London, but they are Londoners today and amazing part of

our great city. I don't what small business to lose outcome I don't

what the great diversity of our city to lose out. I have a friend from

Sydney, and I hope I will host more people from all places around the

world in the greatest city in the world. That is how determined we are

on the back of that. Do any of you feel slightly apprehensive as this

is the third terror attack in this country in three months? It is a bit

more raw than you would like, maybe a bit more vigilant in the immediate

aftermath. To a degree, yes. But I think Richard said it all. We've got

to continue to celebrate this great city, great country. Is it OK if

people don't feel defiant? Totally OK. We will all respond in different

ways. My nerves feel shot. I feel the hear a loud noise, it makes me

jump slightly more. All of us have gone through it in different ways.

There are not enough support services out there for people. I

don't know where to start finding them. I think we need to make sure

the Government, other people are making services available to people.

It is really hard to go through. Manchester has shown the way and

London needs follow quickly. Thank you all. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The sub-prime chairing a meeting of Cobra, that's the

emergency committee meeting this morning.

Norman Smith is at Downing Street. Hi Norman, what's the latest from

there? Well, the PM is getting a briefing on what the police know now

and I suppose central will be trying to understand more about these three

terrorists, were they as Islamic State claim a detachment of Islamic

State fighters or were they a much looser group of maybe friends or

neighbours who became radicalised? They will try and get some sort of

understanding of who these people were and then they will want to get

a clearer picture of was there any support by other people? Is there a

wider group who provided them with some sort of information,

organisation, just to get a feel on how significant a threat these three

were and then they will want to move on to the actual specific measures

that might now be put in place and I guess one area which of course is

going to be looked at is security on bridges because obviously we had the

Westminster Bridge attack and now this one and if you go around

London, many parts of London, there is bollards in most of the main

streets to stop vehicles from going up on the pavement. If you go across

the bridges, they are not so that would seem one area where we may see

some changes and they will want to look at a greater police presence, a

visible police presence as a way of trying to offer reassurance to

people after this attack, but my thinking is we may get a clearer

idea of what the Prime Minister is thinking in terms of

counter-terrorism strategy and addressing radicalisation from a

speech she is going to be giving straight after Cobra in which we

might get a clearer sense of what she now regards as the next steps

and we know some of it. We know she wants some sort of deal with the

internet companies to get some sort of regulation of cyberspace. So far

that's proved hugely difficult. Very, very hard. Some Tory MPs

talking about could we fine these companies if they don't take down

terrorist material? They have their operations in California or

wherever, it is very difficult to see how do you that. We know too the

Prime Minister is looking at beefing up the so-called Prevent Prevent

strategy, the deregulation strategy, for money and more resources for

that. There maybe a review of the successes to control orders which

impose a sort of house arrest on people, widespread view at

Westminster they are not tough enough and the last area, perhaps

the most contentious area is this idea of confronting the ideology,

trying to end the safe space in some communities where these sort of

ideas are allowed to grow and I think we'll get that broader sense

of the Prime Minister's approach after Cobra in this speech.

Thank you very much, Norman, Norman Smith at Downing Street. He will be

back with updates as you would expect throughout the day.

Police investigating the terror attack say they know the identity of

the three men who killed seven people and injured dozens of others

and they say their names will be released as soon as operationally

possible. We will talk to Richard Kemp. We will talk to someone who

monitors the social media accounts of alleged Jihadists. Good morning

to you all. Let me start with you Richard Kemp. The third terrorist

attack to hit this country in three months. What's going wrong? Well,

it's not the third terrorist attack, it's the third successful one. It is

the eighth in that period since the attack on Westminster Bridge.

Because five have been thwarted. That gives an indication. The

Security Services and the police stopped so many attacks with

professionalism, but the reality is they have got too many targets to

deal with to be able to guarantee or stand a chance of guaranteeing that

something isn't going to get through as we have seen in the last couple

of months. OK. In terms of potentially our security officials

being overwhelmed, at any one time, we know MI5 are looking at 500

active investigations. There are 23,000 potential Jihadists according

to them in this country and 3,000 subjects of interest. Is Richard

Kemp right, somebody is going to get through because there are so many to

try and monitor? Well, I think Richard is correct. The scale of the

problem is huge at the moment and long before these attacks

materialised the police and the Security Services were warning that

something would get through the net and unfortunately we saw the first

one get through in Westminster about ten weeks ago now and what happens

with terrorism is that once you have a successful plot it then inspires

others who are like minded to try and replicate that and that has

provided a boom as we have seen over the last three months to other

actors as well who want to engage in this type of activity. Philip, as a

former intelligence officer, does that mean we have to be vigilant in

case there are further attacks? Of course, we have to be vigilant in

case there are further attacks. The security state we are at the moment

is saying that further attacks are probable and the intelligence

services will be looking at how they can try and identify them with the

lessons they are picking up from the ones they haven't identified as

quickly as possible. Theresa May said we had been too tolerant of

extremism, do you agree? Totally. The finger pointed at a number of

people including politicians, the Government, previous governments,

over many years now as well as local communities, political parties,

there is just too much emphasis on the rights and the Human Rights of

the individuals who are involved in extremism over their potential

victims and we are entering a very, very dangerous period. We are in a

dangerous period. He is right when he says that terrorists imitate one

another and inspire one another, but we have got at least 400 people now

back from the Islamic State, they have been raping, and carrying out

mass murder and torture in Iraq and Syria. Here they are, blood on their

hands, trained and directed to kill and more to return so we're going to

be facing more of this in a much more serious threat than we have

ever had before. What we must do is stop anymore coming back. There are

another 400 at least who haven't been killed in the Islamic State who

will return if they are allowed to. That has to be stopped. Theresa May

is right, we have to be less tolerant and we have to take the

gruffs off and use the legislation that's available to us now to stop

it. You don't have to have been to the training camps of Syria and Iraq

to hire a white van and take a 12 inch knife to people having a good

time on a Saturday night, do you? What we have seen in recent years is

the dumbing down of terrorism if I can use that phrase. They will use a

vehicle a knife, in order to launch an atrocity of the kind we have seen

in London in the last couple of days. A plot then involves a

returnee will be more sophisticated, it will involve more likely an

explosive device and those plots tend to take more lives because the

actors involved have a degree of expertise and sophistication, but

comes as no comfort to the victims who are caught up in these things.

Simplistic methods can take lives and bring capital cities like London

to a halt. In addition to their expertise in terrorist attacks some

of the returners are likely to be inspiring and motivating and

recruiting and generally upping the tempo of the terrorist attack.

Theresa May talked about further count irterrorism legislation, we

have had dozen of pieces of counter-terrorism legislation

introduced since 2000. Is there much left to legislate against and will

it make much difference? The adjustment to the legislation will

be important and the Government being proactive into the array of

where the attackers are being motivated and that's through the

internet and through grooming areas, not just Facebook and Twitter who

are co-operating, but telegram and they have refused to co-operate with

the international community, but trying to get them to take material

down is only one step, trying to be proactive to counter that material

online and get counter messages in place is what the Prime Minister

will have to consider as part of this changing of the strategy. I

mean, what do you do with a messaging app like Telegram which is

encrypted end to end? What are you suggesting? Well, there are ways of

looking at it. There is the means of trying to look at the content and

the different methods that in there, but a lot is very well hiddenment

they are extremely well trained in cyber security protective measures.

The other way is to try and pen grate the groups in the same way

that the Security Services penetrated terrorist groups in

Northern Ireland, the same happens in different parts of the world. It

is a very, very difficult thing to do. It is very resource intense and

takes a long time, but that's one of the ways of having to deal with it.

After the Manchester bombing, the independent reviewer of terrorism

Richard Kemp, a man called Max Hill said we have an abundance of

terrorism laws to meet the current threat. Is he right? We have an

abundance of terrorism laws and we rarely use them. We have got 400

returners and virtually none of them put anywhere form of control order

and nor have charges been brought against any of them as far as I'm

way ifr. We have -- I am aware. But even the control orders, the methods

that exist are not strong enough. We need to look at strengthened

legislation to get rid out of this country of people who shouldn't be

here. More in a moment. More in a moment, continuing coverage on BBC

News. We will continue our conversation about some of the

things that Theresa May said yesterday. You just mentioned

terrorism prevention methods. They were introduced in 2011, they are

different from control orders. They are weaker. Six or seven people are

subject to those. Control orders involved electronic tagging and

curfews. Should they be brought back? This is a discussion as a

society we're going to need to have. The legislation is there. It is

about political will and it is about politicians judging the mood of the

nation. What we have seen after this flurry of attacks now is that people

are becoming frustrated and people want to see concrete steps and

actions from the Government in a meaningful way that can mitigate the

threat and manage it down. All these discussions about the various ways

in which the State can look at bringing legislative approach to

bear against this challenge, it is for us to have this debate about

where we are comfortable in heading with regards to that. Philip, you

are a former senior intelligence officer. If you were still working

within the intelligence services, what would you be advising Theresa

May to do right now? Well, it's trying to identify what has changed.

Five attacks have been thwarted. Three have successfully got through.

18 attacks since 2013. What brought the pace up? And look at that. What

has allowed these individuals and small groups to get through to carry

out successful attacks? How can we look for indicators for the future

to stop it lapping? In terms of the monitoring the social media accounts

of alleged Jihadists, what's your view about how they are becoming

radicalised? We have seen a high water mark of social media was in

2013 and 2014, it was easy to recruit people through Facebook,

Twitter and Google. The landscape has changed despite what the Prime

Minister said about social media companies. They are not on these

platform, they are still there, but not in the way they used to be. It

moved towards clandestine methods. Telegram is a platform they operate.

It is the primary platform which groups like IS and Al-Qaeda are

acting today. They are recruiting on these channels highlighting grieve

Abses and building grievance narratives, ideology and promoting

the notion of martyrdom to draw people into their view to carry out

these types of attack. Thank you very much all of you. Thank you for

coming on the programme. Let's talk about what happened in

Manchester last night because it really was an amazing night. A night

of unity. Of healing for some and also of joy. Some of the biggest

names in music including Coldplay, Justin Bieber, Liam Gallagher joined

Ariana Grande to raise money for the victims of the suicide bombing at

the Manchester Arena just two weeks ago. Every person who was at the

original Ariana Grande concert that night was offered a free ticket to

the event which has raised millions of pounds. Here are some of the

highlights. # It might seem crazy

what I'm 'bout to say # Sunshine's here so

she can take a break... We are here, and we are

together, we are one! # You are, you are,

you are everything... I want to thank you so much for

coming together and being so loving I love you guys so much and I think

that the kind of love and unity that you're displaying is the medicine

that the world really So I want to thank you

for being just that. What a better way to fight evil

with evil, than to fight evil with good, would you guys

agree with that? # All the times that

you rained on my parade # And all the clubs you get

in using my name... Let's just do this little exercise

in love, just touch the next person, Look in their eyes,

say, "I love you!" CROWD: # Don't look back in anger,

don't look back in anger. It was really, really moving. A

very, very special event. I'm just doing to bring you this news, it is

the latest regarding the number of police officers who were injured on

Saturday night. One British Transport Police officer and three

Met Police officers were injured. The further two officers were both

on duty Southwark officers. One was a plainclothes officer that received

stitches to a head injury. A uniformed officer received an injury

to his arm. The off-duty officer remains in hospital in a serious

condition. Good morning. Let's bring you

up-to-date with the latest on this fast-moving investigation. Police

say they are surging two more addresses in east London, one in

Newham and another in Barking. A total of six properties are being

searched. It comes after 12 people were arrested in Barking yesterday

following raids at a flat, believed to be the home of one of the

attackers. A 55-year-old man has since been released without charge.

The commission of the Metropolitan Police, Cressida Dick, has said they

know the identity of the three attackers and the investigation is

moving very quickly. A very high priority for us,

obviously, is to try to understand whether they were working

with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved in the planning

of this attack, and to find out We've made a number of arrests over

the last 24-36 hours. I think, at the moment,

I'm right in saying we still have We've carried out searches

in a variety of places in east London, and we've seized a huge

amount of forensic material. So we're moving very quickly

and we're working closely with the intelligence

agencies in that work. Minister is chairing another meeting

of the government's emergency committee Cobra. Earlier, the

Culture Secretary Karen Bradley said the government would be reviewing

its anti-terrorism strategy in view of what she called a unprecedented

threat. Emily Thornberry has criticised the cuts to police

numbers. The truth is, and it is a truth,

the police are very stretched - You know, many of the armed police

officers that you'll see on the streets here,

come from all over and have had to be brought in,

and when they are under a time of stress, we are relying

on their goodwill. The first victim of

the attack to be named is Canadian national Christine

Archibald, who was 30. She'd moved to Britain

to be with her fiance. A French citizen was also killed,

and four other seriously hurt. Four Australians are also known to

have been caught up in the attack. A total of 48 people were injured -

21 of them remain critically ill. Let's go to new Scotland Yard, where

Danny Shaw is. What is the latest? Well, the latest is that the police

are trying to piece together the events of Saturday night and find

out as much as they possibly can about the background of the three

perpetrators and their associates. They have amassed an enormous amount

of material, both from the van that was used in the attack, friends

material from the scene and also from searches at various properties

that are still going on. 11 people in custody. They are being

questioned on suspicion of terrorism offences. From those interviews,

police will try to glean as much information about the perpetrators,

whether they are linked to people here, whether they have links

overseas. Cressida Dick, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner,

said in most of the recent cases they have seen most of the plots in

the UK, the attacks that have taken place, there has been a domestic

centre of gravity, as she put it. It is not something that has been

directed from overseas. These are still early stages of the

investigation. There is still a huge amount of material to go through. We

have seen a pattern in these inquiries where you get a large

number of arrests early on. Then many people are released without

charge later as investigators discover that there are no links to

the main attackers. It is clear that police are dealing with something

they have not had to deal with before, for many, many years. Three

attacks in less than three months, a sense that each attack is

encouraging other people to launch further atrocities. That is

something that the police are now having to adapt and deal with.

Cressida Dick was making clear that there needs to be changing the way

that the police, enforcement and communities respond to this new type

of threat. Thank you very much. Danny Shaw, outside New Scotland

Yard. Theresa May is due to speak, we are told, at about 9.40 five. We

will bring that to you. You may have heard her words on the streets of

Downing Street, when she said enough was enough, as election campaigning

resumes in full. How will politicians around London help to

unite the capital? Let's talk now to Neil Coyle,

who is the Labour candidate for Bermondsey and Old Southwark -

the attack happened Tom Brake is the Liberal Democrat

candidate for Carshalton Wallington in Greater London

and is their spokesperson Rushanara Ali is the Labour

candidate for Bethnal Green Dominic Raab is the Conservative

candidate for Esher and Walton. Good morning to all of you. Mr Raab,

three successful terrorist attacks in three months. Theresa May said,

after six years as Home Secretary and a year as Prime Minister, there

has been too much tolerance of extremism. Is that an admission of

failure on her part? I think it is a different type of terrorism are

merging, copycat Lone Wolf or small groups. Our approach is

straightforward. We want to see more armed police officers on the

streets. We are investing in that. You can see from the response to the

horrific attack on London Bridge that the time from the report to the

armed police dealing with the terrorists was eight minutes. We got

some of the very best equipped, resourced and train people dealing

with this. Also, we need to get that poison of the internet. That is

easier said than done. We've got to work with internet companies, with

international partners. You got to degrade Islamic State, which is the

inspiration, rather than the controlling organisation for some of

these attacks where we can. We have seen that in Syria and Iraq and I

think it is important. It is one piece of the jigsaw, so to speak,

that we have a Government that is willing to do that. There is no

silver bullet. You need to put the pieces together. Can I ask why it

hasn't been done thus far? Well, we have been investing in 1500 extra

armed police officers. We have invested in more than that in terms

of intelligence officers. The nature of the threat has shifted. It has

morphed over time. Remember from Al-Qaeda, the great spectacular

attacks, very well planned and organised, much easier to pick up in

relation to intelligence. Radicalisation online has been going

on for years? But the nature of it, and the nature of the internet,

technological advances have changed. This is something we need to do more

of. Theresa May has been talking about this for a while. We need to

get internet companies working with others, particularly to download

extremist material more quickly. We also need to recognise that there is

an international approach. I am not giving you a silver bullet or magic

wand. At these are the areas that we will address. In Theresa May, you

have a Home Secretary who has been relentlessly protecting this country

from terrorist attacks for six years. Also presided over 20,000

cuts to the police, 20,000 fewer police officers, you acknowledge

that? Guillemot writing it is an extraordinary thing for Labour to

throw that at us. -- I think it is an extraordinary thing. We had some

of the injuries to an armed police. We have to focus on what is required

to deal with this specific threat. We put more investment into armed

police and we have got... I think what this is really about is that

the leader of the Labour Party has woken up and realised his policy on

shoot to kill command disarming the police, is totally unfit for the

nature of the threat we face. Let's put that to some of the Labour

candidate that we have here. Labour candidates, Jeremy Corbyn said last

night I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect

the security of our people and country, that includes for authority

for the police of the country to use whatever force is necessary,

including for authority to use whatever force is necessary. Would

Jeremy Corbyn, if he were Prime Minister, authorise police officer

shooting to kill? That is what he said yesterday. You believe he would

follow through? That is what the community is to hear. I have been

proud to represent the community and lived here for many years. Many of

the businesses affected are trying to get back to normal and people

need to know whoever is in government, the police will have for

authority, powers and resources to tackle the problems. Tom Brake, the

Liberal Democrats seem to be suggesting that a report

commissioned by David Cameron on Saudi Arabia, potential funding of

extremism, is being suppressed. What is your evidence for that? We know

the report has been drafted and we are just surprised it has not been

released. We requested the report be published because we had concerns

about Saudi Arabia funding some of the more extreme mosques in the

United Kingdom. The Saudi Arabian government? Funding Wahhabi Islamic

mosques. We want an OS that is happening, and to what extent it is

happening. Whether it is fuelling extremism in the United Kingdom. We

don't know why the government are sitting on it. Let's talk about

Wahab -- Wahhabi Islam, a strict form which comes from Saudi Arabia,

and some say is close to Islamic State ideology? That is why the

report needs to be published. The government position is that we are

working closely with our allies, that the British people are entitled

to know if there's in the report that says it is finding its way into

England. It is distasteful to talk about the mosques where we know that

most radicalisation is done online. The manifesto would undermine the

police ability to undertake full investigations and monitor e-mail

communications in particular. I am sorry Neil has chosen to make this a

political ding dong. The fact is, as a party, in our manifesto, we have

promised to deliver 10,000 extra police. In government, we also

funded a much more security services. And you also saw 20,000

fewer police officers? The fact that we are now willing to put the ?300

million into funding 10,000 extra police officers is a recognition of

that fact. Theresa May scrapped control orders when she was Home

Secretary. Control orders restricted liberty to protect people from

terrorism. TPIMs replace them. I spoke to experts say they are weaker

than control orders. Should we consider bringing control orders

back? Can I express my deep condolences to

the victims' families and to the victims themselves and also appeal

to everyone to work together with the police to tackle some of the

challenges that we face as a city and also as a country. On security

issues, I think we do as the Government has said, we do need to

look at and review Prevent and the strategy. We have called for the

Government successfully for years to review t counter-terrorism strategy

what has worked and what has failed and that's fallen on deaf ears. It

is about hearts and minds, isn't it? It is absolutely. It is about that.

It's also as my colleagues have said about making sure that our police

and emergency services get the support they need and we have seen

not only 20,000 police officers being cut, but also police and

Community Support Officers through the eyes and ears of the police and

when you do that, it has gone down from 5,000 to 1800 in London, when

you do that, you weaken the resilience of our police service.

They are at breaking point and Theresa May needs to take

responsibility. Dominic, Theresa May needs to take

some responsibility? Well, we know that crime is down by a third, but

if you want to deal with terrorism it is misleading and not understand

the problem to think that ordinary police officers as trained as they

maybe and as dedicated they maybe will be able to deal with the

horrific attacks we saw and over the week at London Bridge and I worked

at London Bridge before and I know that area rather well, we had armed

officers showing incredible bravery, but skill because they feared they

were dealing with people carrying explosives. You need to have the

armed officers. They need to be trained and you need to be willing

to allow them to do the job which will mean as we saw on Saturday

shooting to kill. In relation to some of the other stuff we've talked

about, look, there is always going to be a review of terrorism

particularly in light of the changes and the fact that we have had three

attacks recently and I think we need to hold our nerve and though the

public that we are united and it would be good if we had a united

front on armed officers and we do need to be willing to allow them to

shoot terrorist suspects in order to protect the public and indeed in

relation to dealing with Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, I'm not

talking about wholesale involvement, but when you've got a clear leader,

Islamic State inspiring the attacks we're seeing in the UK, I do think

we need a leader that's got what it takes and is willing to take the

decision that deals with that and it is only Theresa May that's showing

that she is the one able to take the very difficult decisions.

Cressida Dick Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police said she didn't

think it was necessary to see police officers routinely armed? We have

got to get the balance right between arming police officers and ensuring

that we have the kind of policing that we had in this country which is

unique. We have to protect that and the public trust in the police is

exemplary and we need to work with the police and as I say again we

have got to look at how to strengthen community policing in our

country again. Do you agree with Cressida Dick on that? We need to

review whether we have sufficient armed response officers available on

patrol, but the principle of British police being armed is the right one.

Key events there needs to be, the public need to know that there are

armed police available if there is an incident, but the local policing

is just as important, if not more so. OK. Thank you very much. Thank

you. Pf Thank you to Tom Brake, Neil Coyle,

Labour candidate for Bermondsey and Old Southwark.

And the Conservative candidate. We are at Borough Market in

South-East London. This is where on Saturday night three men armed with

knives decided to run up and down this main area and attack revellers

from all over the world who happened to be having a drink, having a meal

in the bars and restaurants. That, after, they had taken a white van

and driven it at pedestrians on London Bridge. It caused carnage on

Saturday night. Chaos, panic. But so many tales of extraordinary heroism

actually and bravery from all sorts of people, from waiters and from

restaurant owners and from off duty police officers. There are over

eight million people living in London.

It's one of the most diverse cities in the world.

Saturday night here in London Bridge the streets would have been

bustling with tourists and late night drinkers.

This attack was a deliberate attack on Londoners way of life,

but the mood amongst people living in the city is similar

to that we say in Manchester just two weeks ago.

Defiance, and a refusal to let terrorists win.

Talking to some people who were in Borough Market on Saturday night,

their nerves are raw, they are apprehensive and they said it's OK

not to feel defiant if you don't want to.

What is the right way to react? You have to continue to use the city. It

is our city. We have to continue the way we do. I walk around London

every day on my daily ka mute, but we have to be aware that this is

happening, but we have to stay vigilant, but we can't give in. I

would echo the same thing. This is, I live ten minutes away. This is my

city, my home, it's where I live, it's where I work, it's where I go

out, if we stop doing that, it let's the people who are doing this win,

we have to vigilant, but we can't fear, we need to step up and just

carry on. It reminds me of that picture of World War II, the milkman

where the bombs have come down and it's a mess around him, but he is

carrying on. Would it be so bad if people wanted to stay at home with

their kids and gather in and think I'm not going it that sporting

event. I'm not going to that gig? We need to club together and we need

solidarity. The worst thing is to turn on each other. So even if

people feel scared, it's OK to feel that fear because we need to stay

alert. This is something that's horrifying thing to happen. It's a

horrifying thing people have to think about, but we really need to

make sure that it doesn't change the fact that we live in one of the best

cities in the world and we need to stay strong and stay brave. What

would you say? As a resident who lives in the Borough Market area, we

are a little bit shaken, but on the whole the community is a very

diverse and united community and everything we had planned for today,

tomorrow and this whole week is going on and will keep going on and

we have events planned which we won't be cancelling and will be

making sure that we happen which show unity and strength in this

community. We are a very diverse and we are very unified. I would echo a

lot of what everyone said. I think it's very clear that everyone will

say, be vigilant, be determined, don't let the terrorists win, but on

the other hand, I would say, you know, I'm from the local newspaper.

There is nothing wrong with being true to your feelings, fur angry, if

you are upset and if you want to stay at home, stay at home. In the

weeks that will come out of this, we need to bear in mind exactly how

horrific and how much of an effect it will have on people and people

need to feel comfortable and to be able to say, "Well, you know, I do

need help." Because your heart goes out to all those people that have

lost people that are going to be going through probably one of the

most, well, the most tremendous loss that they ever experienced in their

lives. There are people that are now maimed. There are people that seen

such horrific things and will they recover from. I would like to see in

the weeks to come, us bearing that in mind as well and being able to

give that support because when it dies down and everything goes away

and you know there is another story like we do in our own paper, I know

that, you know, the victims are left behind and that's when it really

hits home. So I hope that as well as show unity now, that the local

community has a sense of compassion and actually being there for the

people because an awful amount of people have been affected. For

everybody who has lost their life, for everybody who is injured, the

ripple effect amongst familiar will you and friends, it is just

devastating, isn't it? It really is. And it ripples out across the whole

city and we have to be incredibly grateful for everything the

emergency services did or the local people who, many of whom ran into

danger just to try and do anything that they could do to protect

others, but yes, it leaves a terrible, terrible wake behind of

people who have lost people, to people who have life changing

injuries. I was at Tower Bridge before the

incident happened and I left after breaking my fast and I was feeling

sleep yu and half-way going down Tooly Street I changed my mind, it

was a miracle and I changed my mind and I can't really imagine what the

people that were there at the time of the ins didn't what they were

going through and the families. I really can't imagine, but know, my

mum and my family, they were calling me constantly, they wanted to know

what was happening to me. My heart goes out to the people who have been

affected by this. Sarah, you said, "We've got to be defiant or they

win." What does defiance means in terms of how does that manifest

itself, what do you mean in practical terms? I think it's really

important as much as possible just to carry on living lives in the same

way and not to change the way that we are a democratic country, we care

about each other, we are a compassionate country, what I would

hate to see happen is for us to turn on the Muslim community and I don't

want to see a spike in hate crimes because of this. I want to see

people clubbing together, staying, you know, true to the values that

make Britain really great. I would agree. It's carrying on with

our day-to-day lives, being aware, not profiling and stereotyping each

other because I feel like if we profile or stereotyped each other

for what one race or religion has done to another, the world would be

a mess. We have to carry on and I think love is a big thing within

this and unity will make us sure that we are united as a nation.

Kevin, briefly, this area would be much, much busier on a Monday

morning right now, wouldn't it? Yes. I mean, in recent years this area

has become so busy. Saturday night is one of the most busiest nights

and yesterday, it felt very much like it was 20 years ago when there

want this huge buzz around Borough Market. It would be busy. This is a

local area for me and for the pay, but it is a landmark in London.

Thank you all very much, thank you. It's get the latest

weather update with Carol. For Scotland and Northern Ireland,

we have got a day of sunshine and showers. This rain continues to

sweep down in the direction of the south-east. The far south-east

hanging on to brighter conditions for longest. However, we will see

that rain cross accompanied by gusting winds as we go through the

course of tonight. Gales across the Bristol Channel and south-western

approaches and the rain still ensconced across Northern England

moving in across Scotland, but it's not going to be a cold night.

Tomorrow morning we start off with that rain. Again, in the same areas.

We will have rain down the East Coast of England, but for the rest,

Wales and Northern Ireland, it is a day of sunshine and showers. Some of

the showers will be heavy and thundery, but they will be blown

along on that strong wind. And then for Wednesday, we see the last of

the rain pushing off into the North Sea. A lot of dry weather behind it.

Still mild. The next system coming into the west accompanied by gusty

winds with a high of 20 Celsius. Hello, it's Monday, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire. In a fast-moving investigation

into Saturday's terror attack on London Bridge,

police are searching addresses in east London and say they've

seized a huge quantity There have been a number of arrests

and police know the identities of those who carried

out the attacks. A very high priority for us,

obviously, is to try to understand whether they were working

with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved in the planning

of this attack, and to find out The Government's emergency

committee, Cobra, has been meeting to discuss the latest

on the investigation. Senior politicians: big internet

companies to do more to police cyberspace or face the threat of

multi-million pound fines. Bottles, glasses, a table,

he tried to throw a bike at them because he saw these cowardly people

stabbing this young woman I can't believe he did it

and we're so thankful to him. People who were here

on Saturday have told us They also spoke of the incredible

bravery by some to save Bottles, glasses, a table,

he tried to throw a bike at them because he saw these cowardly people

stabbing this young woman I can't believe he did it

and we're so thankful to him. The first victim has been named. She

was Christine Archibald from Canada and she was 30 years old. Her family

said she would have had no understanding of the callous cruelty

that caused her death. It was an evening of

tears and defiance - some of the worlds leading artists

joined forces with Ariana Grade to raise money for the 22 people

killed in a suicide bombing at that I love you guys so much and I think

that the kind of love and unity that you're displaying is the medicine

that the world really So I want to thank you

for being just that. Good morning. This is Borough

Market, this is where, on Saturday night, three men with knives decided

to attack revellers as they sat in bars and restaurants. It was a hot

evening, late Saturday night, about 10.10. The people did not know that

these three men had already taken a white van to pedestrians on London

Bridge. We spoke to eyewitnesses. You will have seen many over the

last few hours, describing the horror, the devastation, the chaos,

panic and screaming, but also remarkable tales of bravery from all

sorts of people, from waiters, restaurant owners, of Judy rugby

playing police officers, from a British Transport Police officer

armed only with a bat on who, it is reported, tar, those three men --

was taking on those three men as they walked around the market with

knives. The main theme, which is becoming familiar, is you just have

to get on with your life, despite what has happened. Of course,

everybody's thoughts are with those that lost their lives and those

relatives trying to work out why on earth this has happened to their

families. We will bring you up-to-date with the latest this

morning. This A brief glimpse of the three

knifemen as they headed So-called Islamic State has now

claimed responsibility. The police investigation

continues apace. In East Ham, a man scrambled

across buildings before In Barking, in east London,

12 people were arrested - seven of them women -

as the police searched properties thought to be

linked to the attackers. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner

says they need to know if the attackers were part

of a wider network, and she says policing methods

will have to be adjusted. We in this country have faced

a terrorist threat again. Throughout my life, actually,

that threat changes, it morphs and we will change

and adapt to what appears to be The list of those killed and injured

reflects the cosmopolitan 30-year-old Christine

Archibald was from Canada. She'd moved to London

to be with her fiance. Her family said she would not have

understood the callous cruelty The French Foreign Minister said

a French national had died 21 people are still in

a critical condition. A British Transport policeman

and an off-duty officer Police know the identities

of the three attackers. They say they won't release

their names until, in their words, That Police Commissioner, Cressida

Dick, has praised the extraordinarily brave actions by on

and off duty officers first on the scene, and who run towards the

danger. There have been such incredible tales of bravery by

normal people as well, who are not trained to do this. The cab driver

who tried to drive directly into the attackers. Pub goers who are

throwing pint glasses at them and passers-by attending the wounded.

It was a white transit van, with a male driver.

There's several casualties, there's people missing,

pedestrians who were behind me, police can't find them, and, yeah,

There was a bar full of people there, just having a good time,

and they went running straight into them, and then people,

you could hear them screaming, they were getting stabbed.

When they first see him, they went, "This is for Allah," and they run

up, they stabbed this girl, I don't know how many times,

ten times, maybe 15 times, and she was going, "Help me,

help me," and I could not do nothing.

Got to the end, we held our hands up so they knew that we weren't part

of anything, then they ushered us through and we managed to get

So you managed to get back into your house?

I was scared because when you see police running,

they were running for a reason, they looked pretty scared.

They were being really honest with us, the police

presence was amazing, but it was very, very scary.

This one guy walked out in the road, managed to grab the attention of one

of the police cars and basically force them down that road saying,

"Look, you have to go down Stoney Street, you have to go down

there, he's down there," and so this one police 4x4 screeched down

Stoney Street and then easily within five seconds

there were six gunshots, or what to us sounded

You didn't hear any shouting from the police,

Well, we saw the car go down the road, and it was just out

of our view that you heard the screech and then six

That's what I remember, exactly that, very quickly,

And I saw two officers, a woman and a man officer,

and I told them, "I know where they are," so we run back.

Well, it was guns, I thought it was stun grenades going off,

and they were lying on the floor, dead.

I'm just so angry about it, but the way I see it,

They need to fight these people and put a stop to them,

We can talk now to some of those who captured

Liam Connell was enjoying a friend's birthday drinks when armed police

stormed their bar forcing them all under the tables

for their protection and Florin Morariu is a Romanina

baker who helped shelter 20 people and fought

the attackers with a crate - he joins us now

Richard was in the Southwark Tavern just before the attack began. He was

visiting London and is back in Taunton. We can talk to all of them.

You are famous on social media because of what you are throwing at

the attackers. Tell us what you did? TRANSLATION: I started working at

7.40. At 10.20 in the evening... There is a very big window at the

bakery, four and a half metres. In front of it... I saw complete chaos

in front of the bakery, through that window. So, I told my colleague, we

should go out and see what is happening.

When we went out, we saw two Brazilian women. There were crying

and they were scared. They asked us for shelter.

We took them inside and we gave them a glass of water so they could

recover a little. Then we asked what all the fuss was about outside.

So, we were told that from London Bridge, all the way to Borough

Market, there is a van, the people get off the van and kill people in

the street. We asked where these guys were.

They said they could be anywhere. They didn't know.

We went outside, with myself, two crates, to defend myself. You went

out with two Grits? Yes. -- Two crates. To the right of the bakery,

there is an exit from the Borough Market. There were a lot of very

scared people coming out of this exit. I went over there. I walked

six metres. I saw nobody. On an alley, to my left, Borough Market,

there were four people. There was a very relaxed man, just

walking out of Borough Market. Was that one of the attackers? No. When

did you see them? I am looking at one, one normal man. In the back,

two people. One is further back. These two guys are coming. They have

the knives. These guys were down. You saw the attackers plunging the

knives into revellers? Yes. Together, the two guys. What made me

look, it was scary. Sir TRANSLATION: I also felt pity for the victims. I

didn't know how to handle things. I thought, I'm also in danger. I just

threw my crate up them. I threw the first one and I knew he

was going to dodge it. Whilst he was dodging it, I was walking towards

him and I hit him in the head with the second crate but I had in my

hand. So, the moment I hit him in the head

with a crate, behind him was a police car coming towards us. They

were shouting that I should just run away, because they were going to

throw a grenade. This is absolutely extraordinary. You went to the

attackers with knives, who had already plunged the knife into

somebody, you went towards them? TRANSLATION: Yes, I went towards

them because I felt pity for the person that was lying on the ground.

I wanted to save both of us. It could have been possible there

were a few other terrorists in the market. Nobody knew how many there

were out there. Well, what you did was remarkable. Thanks. No, thank

you. TRANSLATION: The police threw the

grenade and it blew off and I runaway. Thank you so much. Stay

here. Stay here. Liam, hello. Hi. What do you think of that first of

all? It's crazy. That's incredible. That's real stuff. It's normal. It's

normal. Maybe it's your mother, your father, it's my mother, it's my

father. It's normal. No help. Cho half chance. Maybe check have one

chance. It's simple, yes. Have one chance. I'm sorry for these guys

that died. It's possible, help. It's possible, help. Liam, where were

you? So I was at a Belgium beer place. And we were a couple of doors

down from the Wheat she have. We didn't know what was going on. We

started to get evacuate and then armed police came in and we just had

to drop to the ground. That carried on for a bit. I was filming as it

went on and then we were told... We're showing our audience your

footage now? I just filmed from the get go and then one of my friends

said someone from outside is behind you. So me and my friend went over

to him and at first I didn't really know what he around his neck, but

then it turned out that he had been stabbed in the neck. So my friend

sat down with him and we were calming him down whilst we held the

bandage against his neck and the police were making sure he was OK

and got him out to paramedics quickly. Were you calm? How would

you describe how you were? It was definitely scary, but at first I

didn't think it was a terrorist attack. I thought it was a solo

incident and I just thought people were getting worried. I think

because I was filming it, it was a good distraction. I just wanted to

film it and get it out there rather than sit down and worry. Texting

family and stuff, is scary. Let me bring in Richard. Richard hello. I

hope you can hear me OK. Tell us how it was from your point of view? We

were in the Southwark Tavern having a quick drink before an event at the

Shard which was going to start at 10.30pm. We got in there about

9.30pm and I just bought a round of drinks and settled down. Noticed

that there was a little bit of trouble out on the street. There

seemed to be a couple of Saturday night guys having a disagreement and

the bouncer had to get involved and we thought nothing of it. It was

just the sort of thing that goes off. Carried on with the drink.

Ordered a little bit of food and then we decided at about ten o'clock

that we should perhaps make our way. We were going to walk up Stoney

Street and London Bridge Station to the Shard. There was a couple of

girls crying and we naturally thought it was a continuation of

what had gone on previously. So we thought right, let's get out.

Fortunately for us, the girls in the group decided that they needed to

nip to the loo quickly. And it kind of delayed our leaving two or three

minutes. We probably left the pub at about 10.05pm, 10.06pm not realising

that the two girls had been involved in some sort of the knife attack,

whether they had seen stuff that we hadn't, piecing it together

afterwards that's what happened. And we walked out into the street and

yeah, it was like walking out into a film set. It was people running

around in terror. We saw a couple of people who were injured, one

particularly badly. He was covered in blood. Walking down towards us.

Being helped. And really our story is one of no heroism or bravery, we

really looked to get out of there as quickly as we could along with

everybody else. Headed up towards the station. My friends were well

ahead of us and my wife was ahead of me and I stopped to ask somebody in

the station what was happening who told me that there were men out

there who were running around randomly knifing and slashing people

which kind of meant that OK, I'm piecing this together now and at

that moment we heard the gunshots crack out very loudly, five or six

in rapid succession. And at that point that create add whole new wave

of panic I think amongst everybody. My wife was... Sorry for

interrupting. May I ask you, does it make you think differently at all

about coming to the capital or not at all? No, not at all. I think, my

respect goes out to all the people in London and any other major city

who has to live with this kind of fear now day-to-day. We live down in

Cornwall. I happen to be in Taunton today just for work, but it's a

different world. It's, day-to-day fear of this sort of thing happening

is there for all these people that we just don't experience. Having

experienced it on Saturday night you understand the phrase, "Terror

attack." That's what it enduces, it is terror and panic and confusion

and bewilderment all at once and it is really douf process. I have some

messages here from people watching around the country. Corina, these

are messages from our viewers, they are directed at Florin. John says,

"This Romanian hero is so brave and so modest." Thank you.

And another man says the Romanian man on at BBC News is a hero. I have

total respect, thank you. I have respect for other people. You

have respect for other people? Yeah. They are similar. Chris says, "The

Romanian man who saved people's lives is a hero. He calls it normal

that he risked his life for others. Dese serves so much." Professor

says, "This Romain began guy is so brave. People complain about

immigrants. Give him citizenship now." Another viewer says, "That

Romanian chap is amazing. I'm really impressed by these Londoners of all

nationalities." TRANSLATION: I didn't want to do

this to get any benefit or to be on the telly. I did it because I felt

this way. I think it's just human. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank

you Corina. Very nice to meet you. Thank you. Thank you to to Richard

in Taunton. 48 people were taken to hospital after the attack on

Saturday. 21 of them are clit injured. Simon Jones is at King's

College Hospital where some of them are being treated. What's the latest

from there, Simon? Well, the hospital has told me this morning

that here they are still treating eight men and six women. They

weren't able to give me any details on their condition, but what we do

know is 21 people as you say remain in a critical condition across five

hospitals here in the capital. We've also had further details of injuries

to police officers. There was an officer from the British Transport

Police who was injured in the attack. An off duty Met police

officer and we've learnt two further police officers were injured. One

was in uniform and another was a plain clothed officer and another

one suffered an injury to his head and had to have stitches and another

an injury to their arm. There has been a huge amount of praise from

NHS bosses and members of the public about the emergency teams who headed

into that dangerous situation. We know that the Ambulance Service

arrived on the scene within six minutes of getting the call and ran

into danger when many would have had the inclination to do the opposite

thing. We've heard this morning from one consultant at a nearby hospital

who really sums up the situation. He said he just finished his shift. He

was heading home on his bike when he saw a huge number of police officers

and the emergency services and ambulances around the London Bridge

area. So he simply turned his bike around and went back into hospital.

He said there, by the time the first patients arrived, the full resus

team was in place with people on call coming in and other staff

members volunteering to come in when they heard about what had happened.

He said the injuries that some had sustained were truly awful to the

extent that it was clear that the attackers had stabbed them with the

intention of killing them, but those who survived, some, the injuries

were so bad that they were unable to speak, they were in such a state of

shock about what happened. He said initially around eight people in

that hospital went to the operating theatre straightaway and another

eight went the following morning and it has been a difficult time too for

the staff who have stepped up. The NHS says they will be given support

because there has been training for scenarios like this and a number of

training exercises have taken place recently in London so staff were

prepared, the imagine plan came into place, but I don't think anything

truly prepares them for having to deal with the injuries they saw and

deal with this situation in reality. So, a lot of praise for the

emergency staff and we are expecting an update from the hospital here

which is still treating 14 patients at 11.30am this morning. Thank you

very much, Simon Jones reporting from King's College Hospital. As

Florin our Romanian baker was leaving, people were going up to him

and shaking his hand. They were wanting to say thank you to him. It

was really, really moving and special. Saturday's terror attack

led to those questions how do you tackle extremism? How do you make

sure men don't become radicalised? How best to tackle extremism.

We can now speak to Nazir Afzal, former Association of Police

and Crime Commissioners chief executive.

Zubeda Limbada, director of counter-extremism

Shabnam Nasimi, former Prevent officer who worked with people

We are expecting to hear from Theresa May any minute now. You will

have heard her say yesterday we have got to have embarrassing and

difficult conversations to counter the evil ideology of the people who

attacked Borough Market, London Bridge on Saturday night. What do

you think she means? Well, don noma she means. There is a strong case

for saying the conversation are happening and they are happening

alover the country. They need to be reinforced. People have become

complacent. It's always the case that these individuals that carried

out these attacks in Manchester where I live or London where I work,

don't represent Islam. In fact they represent Islam in the same way that

KKK with their burning crosses represent Christianity. What are the

conversations? Give me an example of an embarrassing and difficult

conversation? You shouldn't be listening to individuals who don't

want to engage with your communities. Islamists have been

telling people not to vote because they think democracy is against

their religion. Those people need to be told to get out of the mosques,

get out of the places of worship and get out of the communities and be

told that they have no place in terms of the Britain that we love

and we want to be part of. Whose job is it to say get out of

the mosque? The people within the mosque, and I are doing it. I know

they have been doing it in Manchester, I don't know about

London. The reality is that these are things the community themselves

have to take ownership of. And they have done. But they can't just rely

upon the leaders. Too often, the authorities engage with so-called

community leaders. The white community don't have leaders. These

people don't represent the young Muslims. Most Muslims are under 25,

female. Yet somehow, their voices are heard, but young people, their

voices aren't heard. I think we need to work differently. We need to work

with women's groups, with young people. Ultimately, that is how we

tackle this issue going forward. We have got to somehow isolate,

marginalise those people that think that simply by going to a meeting

they have done their bit. We have heard what he was saying, it is a

huge problem, multifaceted, but where do we begin? You need to build

trust and confidence, something that is practical. Theresa May said we

would have to have difficult and embarrassing conversations. I

welcome that. However, Prevent, the counterterrorism strategy, has been

going since 2007. The thing is whether conversations aren't

happening, yes, it is as simple as that, the government needs to engage

with wider communities, it needs to build trust and confidence.

Sometimes, the perception with the community is that the Prevent

strategy about spying on the Muslim community. Talking to people and

building trust will be essential. It is one unnamed friend of one of the

attackers, claiming to have called the anti-terrorism hotline about one

of the individuals that carried out the attack on Saturday night.

Somebody who was friends with the Manchester bomb claimed to have

called the anti-terrorism hotline or certainly called authorities to

report the fact that there was something wrong and he was

justifying all kinds of jihadi attacks. So there is some trust

there, but that information doesn't appear to be being acted on? That is

right. The issue we are having is that we are not engaging as much

with the community. Their voices need to be heard. We need to ensure

the right supporters and -- support is provided at the right time.

Through grass work local community work, ensuring that communities are

at the heart of Prevent, they address the vulnerabilities and the

issues within that relevant community. When you say

vulnerabilities, you're talking about people who are vulnerable to

extremism and radicalisation? Yes. In practical terms, somebody like

yourself goes into an airy and does what? The vulnerabilities are

firstly a lack of identity, understanding where they come from.

How do you reach them? They will not come to you, they are online, being

radicalised? Recently I was in a secondary school and I was talking

about extremism and how it happens. Three young schoolchildren came up

to me after the session and said it was really important, it was really

insightful. But their parents had said to them that, actually, don't

talk about Prevent, don't talk about extremism at school because you

could be arrested. There is a sense of fear in terms of what it means to

be engaged. When we go into school, we talk about safe spaces. Teachers

are not always sure, because of confidence issues, about talking

about radicalisation. It might be basics, how does extremism happen?

We talk about how extremism happens face to face and online. Where

people are, in terms of knowing where the recruitment methods are

and what they can do, it seems to be something that needs to be better

understood. The government needs to engage beyond a minority of the

community, particularly with young people and women. Pick up on that

point, if you Community engagement with young people is key. When

another core of the family, they are the ones we need to work with to

ensure awareness around radicalisation, the threat that

their children face is identified. Thank you very much for your time. I

really appreciate it. Thank you to you both.

We are broadcasting from Borough Market, the scene of the third

successful terror attack in this country in three months. There have

been more raids by police. Two more properties in east London are being

search this morning. Witnesses heard bangs and what they said sounded

like shots. More people have been detained in an investigation that is

described by the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cressida Dick ours

quickly move on. -- as quickly moving.

A very high priority for us, obviously, is to try to understand

whether they were working with anyone else, whether anybody

else was involved in the planning of this attack, and to find out

In Downing Street Theresa May has been chairing another

meeting of the government's Cobra emergency committee.

She's spoken in the last few minutes.

She will be speaking in the next few minutes, I should say. I do

apologise. As soon as she does, we will bring that to you.

The first victim of the attack to be named is Canadian national

She'd was visiting Britain with her fiance.

A French citizen was also killed, and four other seriously hurt.

Four Australians are also known to have been caught up in the attack.

A total of 48 people were injured - 21 of them remain critically ill.

Last night in Manchester, that concert that Ariana Grande had

arranged, there was love, joy and sadness, as she and other stars

performed onstage almost two weeks after the suicide bomber killed 22

people at her concert in the city. Around 50,000 people attended

the One Love Manchester benefit gig last night to raise money

for the victims of the attack. 11 million people in the UK watch

the concert last night, which has so far raised ?2 million for victims of

the attack, all organised by Ariana Grande.

# It might seem crazy what I'm 'bout to say

# Sunshine's here so she can take a break...

We are here, and we are together, we are one!

# You are, you are, you are everything...

I want to thank you so much for coming together and being so loving

I love you guys so much and I think that the kind of love and unity that

you're displaying is the medicine that the world really

So I want to thank you for being just that.

What a better way to fight evil with evil, than to fight evil

with good, would you guys agree with that?

# All the times that you rained on my parade

# And all the clubs you get in using my name...

Let's just do this little exercise in love, just touch the next person,

Look in their eyes, say, "I love you!"

CROWD: # Don't look back in anger, don't look back in anger.

Lets talk to Nicole Smith, who was at the concert two weeks ago and

that the benefit gig last night. Hello, how are you? I'm fine, thank

you. Thank you very much for talking to us. What was it like for you last

night? It was definitely very emotional. It was nice to be there,

great to be in that kind of environment again. Yes, it was

really emotional to be experiencing that kind of thing again. Thinking

back to those that were injured and everything. Tell us how the last

couple of weeks have been. It's been really, really hard. I found it

quite hard to leave the house and things like that. I have managed to,

but it has been quite hard and I have been very jumpy. A lot of

things play on your mind, things like that. Obviously you found it

hard to go out, but I wonder, in terms of Artsnight, did that -- in

terms of last night, did not help you in any way? EU definitely. I

definitely feel a bit more confident now. I feel more comfortable going

to certain places again. Thank you very much for talking to us. That's

OK. Nicole Smith, who was at the benefit concert last night and he

was at the concert in Manchester two weeks ago.

Theresa May's plans to regulate the internet to combat extremism have

been described as intellectually lazy. She accused big internet

companies of giving terrorist ideology the safe space it needs to

breed online. Lets talk now to Sajda Mughal, a 7/7

survivor who now works to educate women on spotting extremism

in their children, Abdel Bari Atwan editor of the Journal

of Cyber Policy who says the role of social media in countering

radicalisation is a grey area. First, your reaction to Theresa May,

saying we have to start policing this space online? I would say that

speech yesterday caused a lot of consternation amongst many of my

colleagues. However,... Why? It seems like a knee jerk reaction.

Theresa May's own record with regard to the internet, when we look at

very severe surveillance laws, which she put forward, the investigatory

Powers act, we have some of the most strict laws in the Western world.

She has a tendency towards authoritarianism online. I think

that is why it has caused alarm. However, the social media platforms

themselves do an awful lot of curating and they do an awful lot of

editing of what we see online. If it is done well, having some public

interest in that mix, currently it is completely secretive and

completely private, done by California companies. I don't think

that is a satisfactory situation either. How do you come at this

committee in what the Prime Minister says and, frankly, what politicians

have been saying for a while, we have to do something about the

internet, which seems almost impossible. Facebook are saying they

are going to try to make the platform more hostile. How do you

approach this? There has been a lot of talk over the years. I am a 7/7

survivor, that is what changed my life and meant I started tackling

radicalisation. The action is there. What I want to see happen is for the

action to continue. It is heartening to hear the Prime Minister saying

online, families and the home, the work is being done thereby us,

through our programme. But I've got to be honest with you, there is a

lot of red tape. I want to overcome that red tape. Give me an example? A

lot of talking. A lot of talking and back and forth. The example is that

we have a project which is tried and tested, it has delivered, we have

had to take a step back. That shouldn't be the case. Why is that?

Because of the red tape. I don't understand. The toing and froing. It

means we are not delivering. Then people are potentially being

radicalised online. Even if you have got mums

intervening, you have got Muslim mums, what ages are we talking

about? 11 plus. And they stopped them because they realised what

their kids were doing. It is getting involved in their lives. Having that

deep involvement actually that parental control so to speak. Which

is the key here and that's why our work is centred around mothers

because they are the key change makers. They are the first ones to

spot the signs. Then I'm going to say to you, look, we can get mums

and dads policing what their kids are doing on the internet. Then

you've got messaging apps like Telegram, only the sender and

receiver can see what's messaged which is what we're told the Jihadis

are using now? Yes. I think to just develop your point I think we are

thinking about the online spaces different from off line and I think

that's one of the reasons why Theresa May has been criticised

yesterday because at the same time there is increasing surveillance and

doing things online, there have been 20,000 police officers cut in the

last five years. You need people in communities. The deal with

encryption so messaging apps that are encrypted end to end, that's

viewed by some in the Security Services as a threat. However, the

Security Services all of us rely on encryption to make transactions and

to buy things online. End to end does not mean it's a black box. If

you have the device and if the Security Services are able to get

into the device they are at one of the ends and they can read the

messages. So, the Security Services have an awful lot more information

about us than has ever been available. We can hear from the

Prime Minister. The police have now identified all three of the

attackers and when progress in the investigation permits, the

Metropolitan Police will release the names. 11 individuals are now being

held in police custody following the search of two premises. The

independent joint terrorism analysis centre have confirmed that the

national threat level remains at severe. That means that a terrorist

attack is highly likely. The police have reported that they have put

additional security measures in place to employeetected the public

and provide reassurance and this includes additional security

measures at a number of bridges in London. The police are working hard

to establish the identity of all of those who were tragically killed or

injured in event on Saturday night, but it is now clear that sadly

victims came from a number of nationalities. This was an attack on

London and the United Kingdom, but it was also an attack on the free

world. And finally, I would just like to pay tribute once again to

the magnificent response of the police and the emergency services.

The heroism of officers both on and off duty was extraordinary. The

police and the NHS had detailed plans in place to deal with the

horror that unfolded on Saturday night. This undoubtedly saved many

lives and we thank them. This morning the nation's most

senior police officer has been saying it would be appropriate to

look not just at the resourcing for counter-terrorism policing, but for

general non specialist officers as well. Do you gret presiding over

cuts that has seen 20,000 fewer police officers on the streets of

Great Britain? Well, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan

Police has said that the Met is well resourced and they are and that they

have powerful counter-terrorism capabilities and they do. We have

protected counter-terrorism policing budgets and provided funding for an

increase in the number of armed police officers. Since 2015, we have

protected overall police budgets despite the fact that Jeremy

Corbyn's Labour Party in the House of Commons suggested that police

budgets could be cut. But it is also about the powers that we give to the

police. We've given increased powers to the police to be able to deal

with terrorists, powers which Jeremy Corbyn has boasted he has always

opposed. Thank you. Theresa May. Let's talk to Norman Smith who is at

Downing Street. So, the threat level remains at severe, Norman. Yes,

that's significant because if it was thought that these three individuals

might have been part of some wider gang, that there was some on going

threat then the chances are the threat level would have been raised

to critical as it was after the Manchester bombing. So it remains at

severe which suggests the police have got a grip on this particular

terrorist attack. The other thing I thought interesting, the Prime

Minister suggesting additional security on bridges. Now, we know

that's been a vulnerability obviously in the wake of the

Westminster Bridge and the London Bridge attack. Significantly the

bridges don't have bollards going along them to protect pedestrians on

the pavement. Now, I suspect that maybe one of the things that they're

going to look at. The other thing interesting though the Prime

Minister again on the defensive over the cuts to police numbers which

have been reduced we know since 2010 by around 20,000 and this is where

the politics of it get hard for Mrs May because although yesterday she

made her enough is enough speech suggesting a whole range of areas

she wanted to look at, she herself has a track record when it comes to

counter trim and her critics will say not just that have there have

been cuts to police numbers, but she dismantled control orders and

replaced them with a lesser restriction in terms of other

orders. Her first Act was to rescind the move to rescind ID cards. She

has a track record which critics will point to. What will be

interesting in the next 10 or 15 minutes when we hear from Mrs May,

she is making a speech. Whether she is fleshes out in anymore details

some of the ideas she mooted yesterday. We know some of the

things the Government are looking at in terms of trying to get the big

internet to companies to and then trying to ensure civic society is

less tolerant of extremism and when you talk to supporters of Mrs May

this point to things like the trojan horse scandal in the Birmingham

schools and the child sex grooming scandals in Yorkshire, and similarly

pointing to the voter scandal in Tower Hamlets. Again and again they

say instances where the local authorities, social services, the

police have been inhibited from intervening. It is claimed because

of fear of being accused of being racist or Islamophobic. Thank you

very much, Norman. Norman Smith our assistant political editor at

Downing Street. So the threat level remains at severe in the UK. Theresa

May deflecting criticism about cuts to police numbers. Talking about

additional security on bridges and paying tribute once again to the

magnificent emergency services in the way they responded on Saturday

night. The police and the NHS, armed police, resolving this situation

within eight minutes of receiving that first call. Quite remarkable.

The Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby has urged people not to direct

We can talk now to Imam Farhad Ahmad,

Venerable Rosemary Lain-Priestley, who is Archdeacon of Westminster

And Rabbi of North Western Reform Synagogue, Mark Goldsmith.

Welcome all of you. This is a time when religious leaders will come

together to urge others to unite. Is that fair? Absolutely. I think it's

the responsibility for people, particularly Faith Leaders to urge

people that this is a time to unite. Me as a Muslim imam. It's my

responsibility I feel to let the people know because if people are

doing something strong in the name of my religion, it's my

responsibility to let the people know that the skip ture of Islam,

the teaching of Islam do not support these actions at all, the Koran says

that if you kill one person, it's like killing the whole of humanity

and it says there is no compulsion in religion. The Koran says that you

should unite on things that are common. There is so much that unites

us than divides us. What would you say? We work together. We live

alongside one another as people of faith every day of our lives in

London and that is one of the fabulous things about living in this

city. When the news was coming through about the attack on Saturday

evening, there was a group of Muslims and Jewish people and

Christians who were meeting together to celebrate the breaking of the

Muslim fast that day in St James Church in Piccadilly, together

already as people of being neighbours of different faiths and

we will continue to do that and to stand together against atrocities

and acts of barbarism which is what it is. This is community by

community. So, our synagogues hosted for seven years... What is that?

That's the fast breaking meal at the end of each day in Ramadan. We

invite our Muslim neighbours into the synagogue and it creates a

community that knows a community so that when something like this awful

happens, we know each other and we know that each other is feeling the

pain because we all suffer from these kind of awful things

happening. We have got to know and understand that just like Jews have

been hurt, the same thing can happen to Muslims by being bracketed

together and we have to get to know each other as individuals and as

people as communities and then we can make a change. There are people

who are feeling angry and hurting and are in great pain. I wonder what

you would say to them today? I would just say reach out to Muslims. I'm a

Muslim imam. We were here the whole day yesterday. I'm going to pause

for one moment because this is BBC News and there will be continuing