06/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

It's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Police defend their decision to downgrade and enquire into one of

the three London Bridge terrorists who killed seven people.

And as details start to emerge about the victims of the attack,

the sister of 32-year-old Londoner James McMullan says

she is struggling to come to terms with the fact that her brother may

be one of those killed, after his bank card was found

While our pain will never diminish, it is important to carry on with our

lives, in direct opposition to those that would try to destroy us.

With the election just two days away we'll ask what each

of the main parties will do to prevent further attacks.

With the election campaign back in full swing we have the latest

in our series of Election Blind Dates.

This time it's the turn of Gina Miller - the woman who took

the government to court over Article 50 - and Godfrey Bloom,

a former Ukip politician known for his outspoken views.

They met over smoked salmon sandwiches to talk Brexit,

I don't understand going to these negotiations... Why are we

negotiating? Why don't we just leave?

So far all our couples have got on but will politics get in the way?

We'll bring you the full story just after 09:30.

It is now less than 48 hours till voting begins.

We've been to the valleys of south Wales - traditionally

a Labour stronghold - to find out how Jeremy Corbyn

is going down there, or whether other parties

are about to cause a political upset.

Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

Also coming up later in the programme, as part of our van

share series I take a spin with senior Tory politician

He reveals his favourite Coldplay track and how he got

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE and if you text, you will be charged

Our top story today, Scotland Yard is facing questions

over a decision to downgrade a previous inquiry into one

of the three men behind the London Bridge attack.

It's been revealed that one of the attackers,

Khuram Butt, was investigated by counter-terrorism officers

Seven people were killed and dozens injured in

As the investigation into Saturday night's attack

continues at a fast pace, seven women and five men arrested

in Barking on Sunday have been released by police without charge,

leaving the focus firmly on the three attackers.

27-year-old Khuram Butt was well-known to the police

and MI5 as an extremist, though they insist there was nothing

to suggest he was planning an attack and downgraded their inquiry

The group display the black flag of Islam...

He featured in a Channel 4 documentary last year about radical

Twice, people in his Barking neighbourhood reported

the Pakistani-born father of two to the authorities.

In recent years he worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken

and was a customer services advisor at Transport for London.

Less is known about the second attacker, 30-year-old

Rachid Redouane, also from Barking and claimed to be of

Police are yet to confirm the identity of the third attacker.

Yesterday evening, a vigil took place as Londoners came together

Among the victims, 30-year-old Christine Archibald,

who had moved to Europe from Canada to be with her fiance.

James McMullan's family are struggling to come to terms

with the news his bank card was found on a body outside

While our pain will never diminish, it is important for us

to all carry on with our lives, in direct opposition to those who

A minute's silence will be held at 11 o'clock this morning as the UK

reflects on a third terror attack in less than three months.

In a moment we can speak to our correspondent Tim Muffett

But first Nick Quraishi is at the Metropolitan Police Headquarters

at New Scotland Yard in Central London.

Good morning. Overnight, a property has been raided in Alford, east

London, in connection with Saturday's attacks. Nobody has been

detained, but we are getting more of these as police get tip-offs of

places to search. We understand that Scotland Yard will today named the

third attacker involved in these atrocities. We know two them, but

the third one will be identified after investigations conclude

overseas. The third person, along with the other person named, Rashid

Rashid redo an is not known to the authorities, the only one that is is

Khuram Butt. It is known he had links to al-Muhajiroun and Anjem

Choudary. Concerns were raised about him to an anti-terror hotline, from

a mother in Barking concerned that he was radicalising her children.

You would think because he was being watched by MI5 and police that he

was under automatic surveillance. Scotland Yard are saying that with

3000 British jihadi is an 500 live terror plots under investigation, in

the Force's words commonly move to the lower echelons of the inquiry.

Investigations will focus on how they met. They both lived in

Barking. There will also look into whether anybody else was involved.

Lets talk to Tim Muffett at London Bridge. There, as elsewhere in the

country, we are preparing for a minute's silence to be held this

morning? That is right. 11am, a minutes silence at London Bridge.

The station is now open on this torrential morning, as you can see.

Commuters making their way across the bridge. As you can see, the

police cordon is in place. The blue tarpaulin, that is where the van

came to an end after it careered across the bridge on Saturday night

with deadly effect. Investigation still going on there. Evidence still

being gathered. As I say, a sense of normality returning. This group of

flowers has grown over the morning. More people coming to pay their

respects to those that died on Saturday night. A book of condolence

has been opened which will be taken to Southwark Cathedral when that is

accessible after the cordon has lifted. Thank you very much. We are

going to talk about security and how you stop people from becoming

radicalised with representatives of some of the main parties at about

9.15. It will be interesting to hear from you, 48 hours before we go to

the polls. His security now the number one issue. If not, let me

know what is. Send me an e-mail or use the hashtag.

Australian police say they're treating a siege at an apartment

in the Australian city of Melbourne as a terrorist incident.

Police shot and killed a lone gunman who had been holding a woman

Another man was found dead in the foyer.

So-called Islamic State has claimed responsibility but authorities say

there's no evidence so far to suggest it was a

Wounded in the crossfire when the armed police ended a siege

carried out in the name of Islamic extremism.

29-year-old Yacqub Khayre had a long criminal history.

In 2009 he was accused of planning to attack an Australian

He'd since been in prison for violent crimes.

Last night, he came to this apartment block

On the way in, he shot a male apartment worker before

He made a call to a local TV station claiming to act for both

Islamic state and Al-Qaeda, two rival organisations.

The Islamic State's since claimed he was acting for them.

We are aware of one line, them having claimed responsibility,

but then they always tend to jump up and claim responsibility every

The siege ended after Khayre started shooting at the police, who returned

Australia's Prime Minister says the attack is part of a growing

threat but he also questioned why Khayre had been released

He had been charged with a terrorist offence some years ago

He was known to have connections, at least in the past,

The siege brings back painful memories of 2014's Sydney attack

in which two people died after being taken

He was on bail and was known to have extremist views.

In Melbourne, the police are still trying to piece together

how much planning went into this attack and whether there were any

warning signs that meant it could have been prevented.

The boss of British Airways' parent company says that human error caused

last week's IT meltdown that led to travel chaos for

Willie Walsh said an engineer disconnected a power supply,

with the major damage caused by a surge when it was reconnected.

He's promised to make the findings of an independent

The brother of the Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi

has been released without charge by police.

Ismail Abedi, who's 23, was detained in the city the day

after the attack on the Manchester Arena.

18 people have so far been detained as part of the investigation.

Sales of spirits brought more money into the Treasury than beer

Sales of gin - which have surged 12% - helped spirits overtake beer,

according to the Wine and Spirit Trade Association.

Wine remains at the top of the table bringing in more than four billion

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

And tragic news from China and the death of Cheick Tiote.

How much do we know about what happened?

Good morning. We are still awaiting exact details. What we do know is

what has been confirmed by his spokesperson, that he collapsed

during training, where he plays for a Chinese team called ageing

Enterprise. He was rushed to hospital, where he later died. He

was just 30. He moved to the Chinese club in February after seven years

at Newcastle United. Premier League fans will be well aware of his

strength, his tenacity, his attacking prowess. He will be

particularly remembered for this amazing goal he scored against

Arsenal in 2011. An extraordinary match, where Newcastle came from 4-

zero down and Tiote got the equaliser. That is what he offered.

He played in two World Cups with the Ivory Coast. In a statement, Beijing

Enterprises praised his outstanding contribution to the club and his

huge skills and professionalism. And there's been a huge

reaction, hasn't there? He enjoyed some of the best years of

his career at his former club, Newcastle. They have led the

tributes on social media. Alan Shearer described it as devastating

news. Another former Newcastle player, Shay Given, said he was

shocked and saddened. Way too young, he said. And his former team-mate

and Manchester City player Yaya Toure described him as my brother, I

cannot believe you are gone, I will never forget you. Former Newcastle

manager Steve McClaren has also paid tribute.

Cheick was competitive, he was a warrior and could play.

The tempo and intensity of his game and the game that he wanted to play

would be ideal for the Premier League

That is the kind of player that everybody wants.

What is becoming clear how much he was respected and loved on and off

the pitch. Security has been stepped up

everywhere, following the recent terror attacks, including

at sporting venues and Andy Murray was mindful of the fact

at the French Open in Paris. He acknowledged the recent attacks

in London and Manchester, and the recent terror attacks in Paris. He

thanked the crowd for still coming out to support. This is something

that has affected a large part of Europe and all over the world.

Obviously we want things to keep getting better, and obviously

appreciate everybody still coming out to support the tennis, creating

a fantastic atmosphere. I am grateful I can come out and perform

in front of you. Next in the quarterfinals will be Kei Nishikori.

Is security the number one issue for you at this general election? Let me

know throughout the morning. 48 hours until you can vote

in Britain's general election, and after three men killed seven

people on London Bridge and Borough Market

on Saturday night, Britain's response to Islamist terrorism has

been thrust to the centre We'll talk about this

with representatives of various First, here's where Labour

and the Conservatives Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn say

they are best placed So what is their track record

and what would they do? The Conservatives have flagged up

Jeremy Corbyn's history of voting Labour have suggested

Theresa May has herself voted against anti-terror legislation

in the past. Jeremy Corbyn says Theresa May

presided over a 19,000 fall in police numbers as Home Secretary,

prompting them to back calls for her to resign in the wake

of the London Bridge attacks. Mrs May says she has protected

counterterror police numbers and that Jeremy Corbyn

opposes shoot-to-kill powers. A BBC News Reality Check

investigation found police numbers have fallen by around

19,000 since 2010. On your watch, the number

of armed police officers fell, it is still lower

than it was in 2010, the number of officers fell by 20,000,

and control orders that monitor Would it not be leadership to say

you would reverse those cuts? We have enhanced the powers

for the police, we have ensured that the security and intelligence

agencies have the powers they need, but it is not just about resource,

it is about the powers people have. In a BBC interview in November

2015 Jeremy Corbyn said He now says he supports

the use of proportionate "I am not happy with shoot-to-kill

policy, it is dangerous and can In a defensive position,

where security of individuals is at stake, what happened

in Westminster, over the weekend, I back a police force

that is adequately prepared and able to deal with a terrorist attack such

as what we had on Saturday, where they are able to take

the necessary action. Here is how their record

stacks up on other issues. The Terrorism Act of 2000,

introduced by the last Labour Government, was a law that

gave a broad definition of terrorism for the first time and gave

the police power to detain terrorist Theresa May was absent

on the final vote, A measure to allow police up to 14

days to question terror suspects. Theresa May voted against it,

Jeremy Corbyn voted against it. On ID cards, Theresa May voted

against them, Jeremy Corbyn On control orders, which were a form

of house arrest for suspects, Theresa May voted against them,

Jeremy Corbyn voted against them. In 2011 Theresa May

introduced TPims. Mrs May said they would better

focused than control orders. She voted for them,

Jeremy Corbyn voted against them. Then on the law that allows

communications to be intercepted, Theresa May voted for it,

Jeremy Corbyn was With three terror attacks in three

months, security is suddenly at the top of the election agenda,

with both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn accusing each

other of being soft on security. Paul says, "Security is just one of

my concerns. All our public services have been cut to the core. They all

need more money." John says security is essential, but don't lose sight

of the state of the country under Tory rule. Don't trust them. Louise

says, "The biggest issue is the last chance to safe the NHS." Adam says,

"Security is important, but social cohesion is important and depends on

investment in public services and especially education." Jonathan

says, "My concern is that of climate change and protecting the

environment. It is alarming that no party other than the Greens have

given any mention of this. I'm interested to hear from you. Is

security now the number one issue for you ahadded of the election? If

it is not, let me know what it is. Let's talk now to Oliver Dowden,

who was Deputy Chief of Staff to David Cameron when he was Prime

Minister. He's the Conservative

candidate for Hertsmere. Richard Burgon's been

Labour's Shadow Justice Secretary. Lord Brian Paddick speaks

for the Lib Dems on security He's a former Deputy

Assistant Commissioner David Kurten is from Ukip he's

a candidate for Castle Point. And Drew Hendry is standing

for the SNP in Inverness, Nairn, We can talk about prison sentences

or the vile videos you can access on YouTube or more anti-terror

legislation or police numbers, none of those areas addresses this, that

already young men living in Britain who are prepared to kill others and

then themselves. How would you stop people like that from becoming

radicalised. I will start with you David? This is the case. How would

you do it? Well, you say the police numbers is a non issue. It is an

issue. 20,000 police have been cut. We know where we're going to get the

money from to reput the 20,000 police in place. How would that stop

young men from being radicalised. Community policing is where you

gather intelligence and you build relationships with people in

communities where this is happening. 20,000 have been cut. The police has

become very, very good at rapid response, at reacting to crisis and

we saw the heroism this weekend, but when there is no community policing

or that's been cut then there is a gap in building relationships with

these communities and trying to stop things at the grass-roots so we need

to make that happen as well. OK. We had more police officers before 7/7

and three men were radicalised? This time there has been three terrorist

attacks in three months and have got through the net. Before we had ten

years without one. That's after there were cuts in community

policing. What would the Leles do? We need to review and replace the

current Prevent programme. A lot of people in the Muslim community are

suspicious of it. We need a much more community based approach where

mainstream Muslims can put out a counter narrative to this poisonous,

what is a political ideology. It is not, it is a vited lnt political

ideology, it is not a religion. There is a powerful counter

narrative that can be put out there and we need to make sure we support

those communities. In terms of numbers, we know that security

officials are looking at 3,000 persons of interest. There are at

any one moment, 500 live investigations and there are 23,000

potential Jihadis so replacing Prevent would stop those people from

becoming radicalised It's one piece of the jigsaw. Obviously community

policing is another very important idea. We heard an interview with one

of the neighbours of one of the people involved at the weekend where

he said, you know, this guy, he was being over friendly to me during the

day on Saturday. If there is better community policing, where there is

somebody that that person trusts, pass that information immediately

and that's why Liberal Democrats are pledging 60% more cash than Labour

in terms of it boosted community policing. OK. Oliver, a Conservative

candidate, I have not yet met a Conservative representative who

acknowledges that a cut of 20,000 police officers has an impact on

neighbourhood policing and that has an impact on building trust in

communities and therefore, local intelligence gathering. Are you

going to acknowledge that link? If you look at what Lord Carlile said,

a former reviewer of counter-terrorism, he said that

police resources is not an issue in relation to counter-terrorism. And

what about... I agree with that. What about police officers

themselves? The Police Federation? Her imagine steed's Inspectorate of

Constabulary who have all expressed concern about neighbourhood

policing? Well, actually if you look at the record now, we are protecting

the police budget going forward... No. No. We are cre cuting more armed

police officers. So you're not going to acknowledge the link that others

say are relevant. Lord Carlile said it is not a relevant consideration

in relation to tackling terrorism. Now, there is a debate about police

numbers and community policing, but in terms of its impact on attacks

like this, he is saying this is not an issue. Let's bring in Labour's

candidate. Are you saying that if we had the same numbers of police

officers that we had in 2010 Richard, that Manchester or London

wouldn't have happened? Well, first of all, I'd say that the

responsibility for those atrocities lies with the terrorist murderers

who carried them out. In terms of the question you're asking, the

chain of causation isn't so simple to say if this hadn't of happened,

then these atrocities wouldn't have happened. But when we look at it on

a common sense basis as Sadiq Khan said on the television today cuts in

police of 20,000, including while Theresa May was Home Secretary

doesn't make us more safe, it makes us less safe from everything from

low level anti-social behaviour through to acts of extreme violence.

OK. Drew from the SNP, how would you stop young men living in Britain

from becomingks tremists, Jihadis and wanting to blow up their fellow

citizens Well, these events in Manchester and London are shocking

brutal acts of krill national terror and I think it's very important that

we remember those people and victim who have been affected by this and

their families just now. But this is a time to respond rather than react

to the events. We have to make sure that we're looking carefully at what

has caused this and how we take things forward. So I think knee-jerk

reactions are not the way to go. I'm not asking for knee-jerk reactions.

I'm wondering if there has been any intellectual thinking from within

the SNP as to how to stop young men being radicalised in Great Britain?

Nobody has any answers. One of the ways we can help to prevent the

insidious message of those people who want to radicalise young people

getting through is to create stronger communities. And make sure

that those communities are actually more resistant to the messages that

these people like to perpetrate. And that happens by working with young

people, by making sure that there is early intervention as there is in

Scotland, in schools, we have been discussing this through the

Curriculum for Excellence and opening up people's minds to enable

them to challenge some of the dogma that actually comes through from the

radical organisations. And is that working? Tile will tell. Obviously,

as I said, nobody has all the answers, the most effective way to

combat the aim of terrorism which to interrupt the rights of people, our

civil liberties and of course, the right of law, is actually to show

that their message isn't working and those fantastic images in Manchester

of the police dancing, you know, with the revellers there, I think

are images that actually show that the community response is often most

effective. Let me ask all of you about Khuram Butt, one of the three

London Bridge attackers. Reaction to the fact that MI5 investigated him

two years ago and found there was no evidence of preparing a plot,

planning a plot, no evidence of conspiracy to commit acts of

terrorism. So therefore, they downgraded their scrutiny of hill.

What would you do with someone like that who is clearly a radical

because we all saw him on TV a year ago, what do we do with someone like

that when there is no evidence? Our leader Paul Nuttall said that

Islamism is a cabser. It -- cancer. It has got so bigment we're told

there is 23,000 potential Jihadis. What would you do? We have got to

have a multi-facetted approach. We have got to stop Jihadis coming into

the country who have been abroad and fighting for Islamic State. This guy

is a British citizen. He has been given British citizenship. So you

wouldn't have had him in the country in the first place? Someone like

that who has dual citizenship. Let's deal with the fact that he was

investigated and there was no evidence. What would you do then? We

need to look at funding of mosques and anyone who is connected... What

would you do? With someone like him who has dual citizenship, he has

citizenship in Pakistan as well, you can strip people of their

citizenship if they have dual citizenship, if they are connected.

We need to do that. Oliver, with that individual in particular, what

in the future, what should we do with someone like that? From my time

working in Downing Street I know the challenges facing MI5. They can't be

surveying every single person. But they did look at him. There was no

evidence so they downgrade their scrutiny of him. Is that the right

thing to do? It has to be based on the intelligence they have. You

wouldn't put him under curfew with an electronic tag? In terms of the

top category, those are people who are being actively being followed

all the time. You need to look at the powers the Security Services and

the courts have to deal with these people. Now, you mentioned TPims,

that's one way. It is important that we look at the legislative base to

see if there are other measures to control the movement, to control

their ability to for example get access to vehicles, you know, look

at how they plan this and see if there are other powers we need to

control their movement, short of active constant surveillance and

putting them in prison and that's what the Home Secretary and the

Prime Minister have been talking about. Brian, what would you...

You mentioned TPIMs, you can put them under curfew, electronically

tag them, you can move them away from where they are at the moment.

Isis was a proscribed organisation when Butt was filmed with an Isis

flag. There was evidence to arrest him for a criminal offence at that

time. We are saying that the legislation is there, the powers are

there. We have to look very carefully at why they are not being

used more effectively. There was some suggestion it was not on Isis

flag. But to any sensible person, who was clearly a radical. Carry any

article in public that arouses reasonable suspicion that an

individual is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.

Anybody looking at that but it would think they were a supporter of Isis

and should have been arrested. Richard, what would you have done

with that man? First of all, I would like to start by saying that the

security services need to need to be congratulated all of the terrorist

plots they have foiled. No security can guarantee that every plot by a

terrorist murderous lunatic can be stopped. But it is disturbing to

hear that this individual, this murderer, was so far on the path to

radicalisation. What would Labour have done? We need to look into the

specifics of what happened, what the security services knew, what the

police knew and what could have been done. The wider point I would make,

in relation to the murderer from Manchester, is that it very much

disturbs me that it appears that the murderer from Manchester, the

terrorist and Manchester, had been to Libya to fight against the regime

there, seemingly welcomed back, given the green light to come back.

I think we have to be very careful that we did not have a government

that pursues the doctrine that our enemy's enemy is our friend. If we

do, there can be unintended, dangerous consequences for the

British people. He would have stopped him coming back, even though

he was fighting Colonel Gadaffi, which was British policy at the

time? I think the pursuit of the policy, just because some people are

enemies of the enemy of our government, that we should not look

into them properly or presume that they are not extremist, is very

dangerous. Drew Hendry, what would you do with the individual Khuram

Butt? We saw in London that when the pleas have resources we are able to

respond in a... We are talking about stopping them in the first place? I

am going on to make a point. If you know about somebody and the police

and security services have the resources to look into that

individual and make sure they are monitored, that'll be affected.

Playtime when police numbers have been going down dramatically in

England and Scotland, they have been rising over same period. It is vital

that those people are given the resources to do the job, to make

sure that these people are watched and they can respond when required.

OK, thank you all very much. Here is an e-mail, saying we need new

approaches, much greater engagement with Muslim communities. A programme

of the radicalisation of medium to long-term relation, closing down of

Muslim TV channels in foreign languages, deportation to be looked

at. Security has been a issue for me for some time. Do keep those coming

in, where ever you are. Thank you for your time and your

contributions. If you want to get in touch, you are very welcome. You can

e-mail or message on the hashtag. And don't miss the final

debate of the election Tina Daheley hosts the Newsbeat

youth debate with an audience of 18-to-25-year-olds in Manchester,

featuring senior politicians It starts at 8.30 pm on Radio 1,

the Asian Network and BBC News Channel and then at

10.40pm on BBC One. Gina Miller, the woman who took on

the Government over Article 50 and won, will she meets her match when

she meets Ukip politician Godfrey Bloom on an election Blind date?

It is now less than two days until voting begins.

In the latest in our series of election films from across the UK,

we take you to the valleys of South Wales to find out

Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

The Metropolitan Police is facing questions over a decision

to downgrade a previous inquiry into one of the three men behind

It has been revealed that one of the attackers,

Khuram Butt, was investigated by counter-terrorism officers

Seven people were killed and dozens injured in

Australian police say they're treating a siege at an apartment

in the Australian city of Melbourne as a "terrorist incident".

Police shot and killed a lone gunman who had been holding a woman

Another man was found dead in the foyer.

So-called Islamic State has claimed responsibility but authorities say

there's no evidence so far to suggest it was a

The boss of British Airways' parent company says that human error caused

last week's IT meltdown that led to travel chaos for

Willie Walsh said an engineer disconnected a power supply,

with the major damage caused by a surge when it was reconnected.

He's promised to make the findings of an independent

The brother of the Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi

has been released without charge by police.

Ismail Abedi, who's 23, was detained in the city the day

after the attack on the Manchester Arena.

18 people have so far been detained as part of the investigation.

The former Newcastle manager Steve McClaren leads

tributes to Cheick Tiote, who's died at the age of just 30,

McClaren said he was tough - but also had the most

Andy Murray thanks the French Open crowd for continuing to turn out,

despite the recent terror attacks - he's through to the quarter-finals,

British Cycling's board of directors are set to be replaced

after the governing body called an emergency meeting next

A long awaited report into British Cycling's culture

And Sir Ben Ainslie's America's Cup challenge has faltered.

He and his crew are 2-0 down against New Zealand

That is all the sport for now, I will be back at ten o'clock.

The attack on Saturday caused a temporary pause

in the election campaign, but the campaign is back on and so

This time it's the turn of Gina Miller - the woman who took

the Government to court over Article 50 and won -

a former Ukip politician known for making controversial remarks -

Two weeks ago, before the events in London and Manchester,

they met over smoked salmon sandwiches to talk Brexit,

There is an election on and people are talking politics.

So what happens when you send two people with opposing

I'm like, oh, my God, this has been so long, literally.

You see people that are sat there that can go and work

and choose not to, they choose to go and sign on.

You look gloriously distinguished and slightly hunky.

When people stand at the despatch box and tell me there's

more money in education, I look around and wonder where it's

gone because it's not in my children's school.

I think if anybody were going on a date

with me and I was the host, I and my guests don't

get to the dining room because we never leave the bar.

I'm Godfrey Bloom, I was a founder member of Ukip but it isn't for me.

Every time I see Mrs May on the television, my pen hesitates

She's a rather typical vicar's daughter.

I'm sure she's very good at running church fetes

but as to running a country, I rather suspect it's

The sort of date I would hope this is not is somebody who really has

I'm Gina Miller, I took the Government to court.

My voting history's been for Labour because it's all about Brexit.

Being on a date with me is normally a roller coaster because I'm a very

unpredictable, risk-taking sort of person.

No guesses who I'm about to meet, that was kept very quiet from me.

There isn't a single politician I agree with so it

Do you think that we've given already this early

in the Brexit negotiations, more away than we should have done?

I don't understand the inflexible way we are going

Why negotiate something, why don't we just leave?

When I left my club, my London club, I wrote a very nice letter and said

it was marvellous goodbye and they said oh dear,

The question I asked was, when we leave, what happens next?

What happens next is that we just trade.

It's not that simple though, they've already said

Let's go through the list you've just said because EU membership

is more than what you can get out, it's more about

It's a political project, isn't it, let's be clear, which has been

They just voted for it, they don't want it.

Well, do people know what they voted for?

Is this the next thing we are rolling out, people

are stupid and don't understand what they voted for,

I've been hearing a lot of this, we are all a bit stupid.

If it's so stupid, why was the biggest search on Google

That was the biggest search by millions above anything

Ask the people, did you know what you voted for, did

They said no, we thought we voted because we could

There are some opinions saying there isn't a bill to pay.

What happens in the limbo interim if we just leave?

Look, what's going to happen with these people and,

believe me I've had a lot of experience with these people,

they'll string out the negotiations, fudge it and come up with Brexit

lite which isn't what the people voted for.

People across political parties voted to leave and leave we must

I was on the trail the October before the actual vote and I went

There was huge anger against the EU and there was shouting,

when we leave there won't be any immigration and none of you will be

And I said, but it's EU immigration that's

going to stop when we leave the EU, not immigration.

I think the point that people didn't understand and I'm

totally with you on this, more than 50% of immigration is not

coming from the EU anyway and Theresa May had plenty of time

to deal with the when she was at the Home Office and she didn't.

Our control at the borders is not great.

We know that immigration is good in parts, like the curates say,

But we don't need some people who are coming,

camping in the parks, you know, pooing in the bushes,

One of the reasons I got slightly disenchanted with Ukip in the past

is this inability to make this distinction between good immigration

Well, one of the reasons I left Ukip and sat as an independent

They had a lot of very loyal foot soldiers,

deeply patriotic, very nice people, but they had no strategy.

Post-Brexit what have we got in the shop window,

I used to say, after Brexit, win or lose.

Or is the party going to disappear in a puff of smoke?

Everybody's now saying Paul Nuttall isn't a good leader

You can't fatten the pig on market day, as we say.

You can't fatten the pig on market day.

This whole Brexit thing and the experience I've been

through has brought up the idea, you know, was racism always

here or have we entered a different place in society in Britain now?

But social media has created a platform where there's

I think people need to be much quicker in reacting.

For better or for worse, I'm very new to the social media thing.

If it's noisy, it's the lavatory wall very often,

but generally speaking, it isn't particularly reflective.

If someone can take out for example, a Facebook page, which says

Gina Miller is a traitor, should be beheaded, I'm offering

?5,000 for someone to do that and then I've got hundreds

of thousands of people signing up or following or retweeting that

individual, that's taking us to a different place.

When I went into politics, all of a sudden, no form of abuse

Fascist, misogynist, bigot, I've been called the lot.

As soon as I've put my head above the parapet, you've

put your head above the parapet, welcome to my world I've been

You can't normalise these behaviours.

You're in a dodgy position if you don't mind me suggesting it

because you are heavily involved in this process of Brexit

Wherever you live, go wherever you live and say vote for me.

I never knew that politics wasn't the business of everyone.

I thought we all had a responsibility to speak up and had

Politics is not something that happens to me, politics is something

that affects every single part of my life, my children's life

So I have every right to stand up and say what I believe.

I didn't say you had the right to do it.

No, no, no, I don't have to be a politician.

As a an individual citizen, I have a civic duty

You would lose some of the stick I think

What I found in the last 18 months and I knew it was in the City

but it's much more widespread than I thought, is this idea that,

as a woman, I can't be clever enough to have thought of this case or come

up with this case on my own, it must be lots of very

influential rich men behind me pulling my strings and I find this

whole idea that I'm now being painted as a feminist quite

an interesting one because I'm actually an equalist.

I don't believe there should be one above the other.

Diversity is about all sorts of things, not just gender.

Well, it's a label because it saves anybody doing any research.

When I said no small businessman would employ a woman

of child-bearing age, on the end of it, I said under

the Draconian regulations, employment legislation that we now

have, the number of business women that wrote to me about that and said

you're absolutely right, I will not employ a woman

I can't afford in a four or five-man business to lose a woman

for a year on maternity leave, I don't believe in quotas,

I believe if a free society, we can come to an arrangement

Not quotas, quotas are a disaster, they always have been.

We won't go there with the Prime Minister but...

Oh, my gosh, I'm so disappointed to hear that.

I won't be voting Labour because I actually think the two

leaders we have are not fit for purpose.

Just for this election, vote local, not national.

It's a bit like, don't take any notice of the Rosette,

take notice of the candidate, what have they got to say.

I think it's only fair that we split the bill.

Look, I'm an old age pensioner, you're a London investment banker,

there's only one person here that should be paying the bill.

The retired people have got everything these days,

so I think it's you that should be paying!

Well, it's always the same when you meet the foe

There's so much more common ground than you ever imagined

What's really positive is that we can disagree and agree,

What did you make of each other before you met?

I thought Gina was a nosey Parker because Brexit is my personal domain

and nobody else is allowed to poke their nose in,

but she's won me round to a fairly, don't agree with her, but she's

Again, I understand the caretakers, if you like, of Brexit

and the passions have been there for very many years even

before I came to the UK, but I just think it's healthy

that we move on together and talk about where we go to next.

And possibly ruin the entire programme.

You can catch up on the whole election blind date series

And tomorrow, in our last edition, the SNP's Tommy Sheppard,

who founded The Stand comedy club, meets Ayesha Hazarika,

former political advisor to Ed Miliband, who has since become

When the conversation turned to the question

of Scottish independence, neither of them were laughing!

I think the plea from people is just can we just move off the obsession

about the referendum for a while? You're obsessed. Nicola Sturgeon is

like the Beyonce of Scottish politics. She is a woman obsessed

with her independence. That's tomorrow.

We've been bringing you a series of films from across the UK over

The constituency of Torfaen in South Wales

has been solidly Labour for the last 99 years.

It also voted decisively to leave the European Union

So how is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party going down

in the Welsh valleys ahead of the vote on Thursday?

Our reporter Jim Reed has has been finding out.

There are loads of food banks everywhere.

Seven years I ain't bothered because I don't

But this year I was borderline but I'm Labour again now.

I voted Theresa May, Conservative all the way.

Large tangerines now, come and get 'em...

So this is Pontypool in South Wales, there are two reasons

The first is it's market day so there's plenty

The second is this is heartland Labour territory.

This constituency's been Labour for 99 years.

We want to see how that core vote is holding up just days

Two punnets of blueberries and blackberries all for ?3...

It will take you 30 seconds, we are from BBC News,

doing some filming ahead of the election.

I think Theresa May is not good at all.

I think Labour is going to win this year.

Why do you think Theresa May's not done well, how does she come across?

I think a lot of people don't trust her.

Over the decades though, that old Labour vote here has been

chipped away by the Tories, but Ukip, by the Welsh

I voted who I always vote for and it will never change over the years.

Who for, if you don't mind me asking?

Well, I think the Welsh government can do more

for the Welsh than the English have been doing for us,

It's not fair, it's always Labour or Conservative.

Why can't we have Plaid Cymru or somebody else in there?

Exactly, let somebody else have a chance to screw it up.

It's lunch time at the Conservative Club in the town centre.

Not much love for Jeremy Corbyn here.

Is it fair to say you are not big fans of Jeremy Corbyn?

Labour until a couple of year ago, she voted to leave the EU and is now

That's not gone down well with her son Jason,

If you were going to try to convince your mum to vote Labour,

Well, if you look at the manifesto and stuff like that,

it is built for working class people.

They say that but they don't deliver.

They still don't help the working class people, Jas.

Now you've got Jeremy Corbyn who wants to start nationalising

You know, the voters and everybody are going to lose out again

because he wants to go back to that and the cost is going

But I reckon in the long run, not the long run but the short-term,

I can remember the Conservatives coming in, oh, donkeys years ago,

and everybody was really sceptical but they done well.

Except for the coal mining strike and stuff like that which was bad

because my brother was one, that's why he's going

They're both going to kill me, but then again everybody's got

A short drive up the valley is Glynarthen, once home to 20,000

The pit here is now a museum and the town a World Heritage Site.

Why isn't anybody behind him pushing him up...

Nothing says Labour like the town's new Mayor.

Phyllis Roberts was elected last month at the age of 93 after three

Have you ever thought about voting for anyone else?

No, I couldn't. I wouldn't.

Because I've never found that the Conservative Party have

ever given any consideration to miners and the mining valleys.

That's why nearly all mining valleys are loyal to the Labour Party.

Maybe it's creeping in a little bit now, I wouldn't say there's 100%

loyalty no like there used to be years ago.

Phyllis was a strong supporter of Tony Blair and wasn't convinced

by Jeremy Corbyn when he became Labour Leader, but says

this election campaign has brought her round.

I was hoping in the beginning that he'd have enough gumption to resign

before it got too close to the election.

But now when I hear his speeches now, I'm more than happy with him.

Perhaps he didn't have all the confidence to put it

In the very south of the constituency is Cwmbran,

built in 1949, as part of the post-war new towns projects.

It's now a bustling place full of chain stores

We've had to put an extra office there...

On one of the industrial estates on the edge of town,

we are shown around by Geoff Nicholas.

A life long Labour voter until he joined Ukip.

He worked on the production line here making alarm systems.

Is Brexit the most important issue for you still?

We can move on to other policies, other demographic issues,

And do you trust the Government to get that right?

I'm more in favour of Theresa May than Jeremy Corbyn, but I'm

So the whole strong and stable mantra?

I don't buy it. I don't buy it.

And I don't think a lot of other people buy it,

thing's why she's slipping in the polls.

60% in this constituency voted to leave the EU last year.

gloomy about the possible benefits of Brexit.

To your mind, leaving the EU doesn't necessarily lead to the catastrophic

Absolutely not. I'm optimistic.

There was a time about four years ago when I could have lost my job

We passed that barrier, and then we had the Brexit vote

and now the order book has gone through the roof.

Speak to workers outside the factories here though and it's

clear many come not from the Welsh valleys, but countries

Is there lots of people from Lithuania?

I think so. I'm the only Lithuanian.

A lot of Hungary people working here.

Back where we started at the indoor market in Pontypool,

there's a sense this election is far from decided.

With days to go, some still haven't made up their minds.

Which way do you think then? You just don't know?

Others after much thought are turning back to what they know best.

Seven years I haven't bothered because I don't agree with none

But this year I was borderline, but I'm Labour again now.

Would it be the first time that you two are thinking about a vote

for the Conservatives and Theresa May?

How would your dad feel about you considering a Conservative vote?

Jerame Reid reporting. He is ever so polite. Latest news and sport on the

way, let's bring you the weather first.

Rain is very much a feature of the weather. You can see the brighter

colours, where persistent rain has been going from Scotland, down the

spine of the country. It is pushing eastwards. It will take its time to

push from the east coast. Behind it, sunshine and showers blowing through

quickly on the strong wind, to Tringale for some places. A cool

feeling day, particularly in the wind and rain. Temperature is not

much higher than 15 or 16 Celsius. Through this evening, showers

rattling through, the rain becoming more confined to north-east England

and eastern parts of Scotland. Elsewhere, showers will fade and it

will become Adryan night. Still windy at times, temperatures

typically between nine and 11 Celsius. A better day for many

tomorrow. Still rain lingering across Scotland. Eventually it will

pull away. Much of the country dry, with spells of sunshine for a good

chunk of the day. With lighter wind and a bit more sunshine tomorrow, it

should feel a touch warmer. Hello, it's Tuesday it's ten

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire. As the Met Police is forced

to defend a decision to downgrade an inquiry into one of the men

who carried out Saturday night's terror attack,

politicians tell us how We need to look into the specifics

of what happened, what the security services knew, what the police knew

and what could have been done. It's important that we look at the

legislative base to see if there are the measures to control the movement

of people like this, to control their ability to get access to

vehicles. We'll have the latest

on the investigation. People across the country are

preparing to remember the victims with a minute's silence at 11am.

Andrew Mitchell gets a ride with me in an electric white van.

He talks drugs, how he got the nickname Thrasher

Well... I'm not good on names. Producing it? I am certainly not

going to do that. -- could you seeing it.

Our latest election date pitched Brexit remainer Gina Miller

against leave campaigner Godfrey Bloom.

I don't understand the inflexible way we are going towards the

negotiations. Why are we negotiating? Why don't we just

leave? and the others in our

series on bbc.co.uk/victoria. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. The Metropolitan Police is facing

questions over a decision to downgrade a previous inquiry

into one of the three men behind Its been revealed that

one of the attackers, Khuram Butt, was investigated

by counter-terrorism officers Seven people were killed and dozens

injured in the incident Australian police say they're

treating a siege at an apartment in the Australian city of Melbourne

as a "terrorist incident". Police shot and killed a lone gunman

who had been holding a woman Another man was found

dead in the foyer. So-called Islamic State has claimed

responsibility but authorities say there's no evidence so far

to suggest it was a The boss of British Airways' parent

company says that human error caused last week's IT meltdown that led

to travel chaos for Willie Walsh said an engineer

disconnected a power supply, with the major damage caused

by a surge when it was reconnected. He's promised to make

the findings of an independent The brother of the Manchester

suicide bomber Salman Abedi has been released without

charge by police. Ismail Abedi, who's 23,

was detained in the city the day after the attack on the Manchester

Arena. 18 people have so far been detained

as part of the investigation. West Midlands Police

are exhuming several graves in a cemetery in Dudley

as part of an investigation into the disappearance of a teenager

14 years ago. Natalie Putt was 17 and had an 11

month old son when she went missing. The decision to exhume the graves

follows a new review of the case. An 18-year-old man was arrested

on suspicion of murder in 2004 A bright light, believed to be

a fireball or meteor, The footage was recorded by a beach

camera in Dawlish on Friday night. Dr Robert Massey, from

the Royal Astronomical Society, said it was almost certainly

a fireball, which is a very bright meteor burning up

in the Earth's atmosphere. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30am The cause of death of former

Newcastle player Cheick Tiote, is still being investigated,

according to Chinese Tiote collapsed in training

with his new team, He enjoyed some of the best years

of his career at Newcastle, where he played for seven years,

only moving to China in February. His former manager Steve McLaren

has led the tributes, saying he was the toughest player

he'd ever seen. He was combative, he was just a

warrior and he could play. The tempo, the intensity of his game and

the game that he wanted to play, I said it would be ideal for the

Premier League, and so it proved. That is the kind of player that

everybody wants in their team. He was a winner all the way through.

Andy Murray thanked the crowd for turning out to watch

the action at the French Open, in spite of the recent

Murray reached the quarter-finals with a straight-sets win over

He'll play Kei Nishikori next - but his thoughts were

This is something that has affected large parts of Europe and all over

the world. Obviously we want things to keep getting better and obviously

appreciate everybody still coming out to support the tennis, creating

a fantastic atmosphere. I'm grateful I can come out and perform in front

of you. England have been put into bat by New Zealand in their

Champions Trophy match in Cardiff victory would give them a place in

the semifinals. England captain Eoin Morgan

says his players are confident of making it through,

against a side he thinks They have brought a huge amount of

entertainment and excitement to the 50 over game. That has probably been

lacking for a long time. In 2015, during the World Cup, they really

captured the imagination of the New Zealand public. It is fantastic to

see. They are strong contenders in this competition. They played very

good cricket. Certainly, they are a side that will contend in this

tournament. British Cycling have called

an emergency meeting next month to vote on reforms -

and the entire board of directors All the current members will have

to reapply for their jobs, with a report due next week

on the investigation into the culture at British Cycling,

following accusations Chris Froome is just over a minute

off the lead after two stages of the Criterium du

Dauphine in France. He finished safely in the peleton

on what was a day for the sprinters into Arlanc,

with Frenchman Arnaud Demare Froome should make his move later

in the week, in the climbing Sir Ben Ainslie's Land Rover

BAR team are struggling in the America's Cup challenger

semi-finals in Bermuda. They're 2-0 down to New Zealand

after damaging a wing in the first race and being forced

to forfeit the second. That is all the sport for now. Back

to you now. I have been asking you this morning

if security is the number one issue for you in the general election

campaign with 48 hours to go until the polls opened. This e-mail from

Andrew, it is not about security, that would be dealt with by any

residing government. It is still about Brexit and who is best

positioned to fight for the UK's future. The hollow and worthless

manifesto promises should be ignored. This Tweet says security is

major, but we should focus on the impact of inadequate social cohesion

due to the disempowerment of parents and teachers. Debra said you ask if

the number one issue is security, I say yes, and I voted for Bracks is

on the issue of security alone. It is the priority to allow freedom and

democracy in our country. Stephen says he does not think security

should be the reason to choose. All the parties will do the best they

can. I struggled to decide between the two main ones, probably because

of a lack of trust. I've decided I cannot vote for a Prime Minister in

favour of fox hunting. I am not yet decided whether to vote Labour or

green. It is a shame we have first past the post in this country. Keep

them coming in. Let's bring you the very latest on the London attacks.

Criticism of the Metropolitan Police, for their decision to

downgrade the inquiry into one of the men that carried out the

attacks. In a moment, we will speak to Norman Smith in Westminster.

First, let's talk to Daniel Sandford outside New Scotland Yard in central

London. What is the latest? A very wet New Scotland Yard this morning.

There was an extra raid overnight in Ilford, in the early hours of this

morning. Nobody arrested there. That was a search, essentially,

overnight. Also overnight, all of the remaining ten people that were

arrested have been released. We are back to a situation where the only

three suspects concern any attacks on Saturday night in which seven

people were killed are the three men that were shot dead on the spot by

armed officers. There may be further arrests down the line, but at this

stage nobody is in custody being questioned by police in relation to

those attacks. Big, big questions this morning for the police and

security service, MI5. They had investigated Khuram Butt in 2015,

and he was still a subject of interest for them at that point.

Because there was no evidence of any attack planning, he had been

downgraded in terms of the amount of resources that had been put into

that investigation. And, of course, it turned out he was planning an

attack, however short term the planning was, and that is a

difficult problem for the security service and the Metropolitan Police

in terms of their reputation. Thank you very much. Let's talk to

Norman in Westminster. This row about police cuts, the number of

police officers we have in this country is not going away, is it?

It's not. That some discomfort to Theresa May. Clearly, she wants to

try to the political agenda in the last days of this campaign back on

to Brexit. She sort of snagged on this issue of police numbers. I

think that is in part because it is a very simple, easy thought for

people to get their heads around. That police numbers have been

significantly cut between 2010 and 2015. It is not accommodated issue

like an Kvitova social care. Also, it is one that is personal to

Theresa May. She was Home Secretary, she was the person that presided

over the cuts in police numbers. The other thing that struck me in the

response that we have heard from Theresa May and senior ministers,

there is a reluctance to even concede that the numbers were cut

over those five years. I think that many voters probably feel a bit

exasperated, annoyed about that refusal to concede. For journalists,

it means we keep picking away and picking away. It is not going away

because, never mind the criticism from Jeremy Corbyn, this morning we

had the Labour Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, really raising the

stakes and saying policing in London had not just been cut over the past

five years, it was set to continue to be cut over the next four years,

suggesting something that between 3000 and 12,000 police officers may

have to go. That would be between ten to back a 10% and 40% of the

total force. That is a huge number. He says, inevitably, that will make

it harder to guard against future terror acts. Listen to him. Under a

renewed Theresa May government, as a consequence to the cuts to the

policing budget, we will have fewer police officers. All of the experts

tell me that one of the ways we counter terrorism is by fantastic

police in the community. Members of the community, of all backgrounds,

report intelligence to police officers in the community. They pass

it on. It helps keep us safe. There is no doubt that fewer police

officers means we are in more danger. A fairly stark warning from

the Mayor. Boris Johnson this morning disputing that. Boris

Johnson, Sadiq Khan's predecessor, saying if he wanted to have more

police officers he could raise the money himself. Also saying that the

police budget has actually been protected, they say, and that there

are more armoured police now and that the counterterrorism budget has

been increased. This is what Mr Johnson said. We think about

policing, we don't take the focus of responsibility from the people that

did it, from the terrorists. When Jeremy Corbyn says it is all a

function of police numbers, I have to say I think that is wrong. Police

numbers in London have remained high. Secondly, we protected police

budgets in 2015 and the Labour Party, as I recall, wanted to cut

them by 10%. But all that argument detracts from the responsibility of

these scumbags, what they have done, and we should not allow that to

happen. Many of us at Westminster were

expecting this argument over police numbers to kick off this morning

when Home Secretary Amber Rudd was going to be up against Diane Abbott

and that was shed how old to get underway at 9am. We were told Diane

Abbott wouldn't be turning up. Now, apparently she is not feeling too

well. Emily Thornbury was sent in her place. It is not the first time

that Diane Abbott was not been feeling well at key moments. You

remember there was that Brexit vote in the Commons and she couldn't take

part because she wasn't feeling well. Cynics suspect that maybe some

in Labour circles thought Emily Thornbury would be a safer pair of

hands. Thank you very much, Norman. The latest we have on those

who were injured - and this comes from NHS England -

36 injured remain in hospital and 18 of these are still

in a critical condition. One of the people still missing

after the attack at London Bridge Her aunt Tara spoke to reporters

outside the family home in Brisbane. My name is Tara. I'm Sara's aunt joy

and joy's sister. I just wanted to say that we are obviously very upset

and emotionally distraught at this time. The family is trying to keep

it together, but bracing for the worst obviously. At this stage we

have been advised that if you want any further information you need to

go to the appropriate representatives to get any further

information, but we're just, we're just literally bracing for the worst

at this this stage and we really appreciate if everybody is able to

respect the family's, Sara is absolutely beautiful. She is the

girl next door. She is a very special, kind dread spirit. She is

one of those people that don't drink, doesn't do drugs and doesn't

do anything wrong. She is amazing and she is 21 years of age.

So upsetting. With two terrorist attacks

in the space of two weeks and the threat level

still at severe, there's a feeling With so many people having

witnessed or been affected by the atrocities in some way,

how prepared is the NHS when it comes to helping people

experiencing trauma? Mental health services

are already under strain, with waiting lists of months

for talking therapies Experts say many survivors

and eyewitnesses of terror may only start to see symptoms

of their trauma in weeks Let's talk to Mark Castle,

the Chief Executive of Victim Action, the support

service being recommended to survivors of the London Bridge

and Manchester attacks. Victim Action have said in the past

that witnesses of terror attacks can "fall through the gaps

in the support system". Dr Steve Mowle is from the Royal

College of General Practioners He's expecting to see

some of the survivors from the London Bridge attack

in the coming months. He swam out to sea to escape bullets

in the Tunisia attack in 2015. He and wife Chris are on their first

holiday since it happened. Colin says the UK "isn't ready"

for the trauma support needed Shanie Ryan was in the second

carriage away when Germaine Lindsay detonated his bomb in the 7th July

bombings in 2005. The president of the Royal College

of Psychiatrists is here. Thank you all of you for coming on the

programme. We will have a big conversation about how prepared we

are for the kind of help people need when they've experienced a terror

attack. Colin, tell us, first of all, thank you for talking to us

since your first holiday. Tell us why you think the British healthcare

system is so unprepared for the aftermath of what happened in London

at the weekend and Manchester two weeks ago. Well, firstly I'd like to

say anybody that's been involved in any terrorist incident and if they

hear or see anything on the news, it brings them back to the moment. It

just brings everybody back from their time of anxiety and stress. It

just brings it all back and I must just point out to everybody, you

know, even though we're coming up to the two year anniversary, you know,

there is still people suffering out there and we did find that

unfortunately it was lacking in services for the survivors. But I

think, I'm right in saying, Colin, when you first got back from

Tunisia, you thought you would be OK, didn't you? Well, I did. I will

be honest with you. It is just probably a man thing you think you

will get on with it. I stopped smoking for seven years and straight

after the incident I picked up another cigarette. I have been back

for a couple of weeks and I have been seeing a counsellor and I

mentioned about tightness in my chest. I thought it was about

smoking and I didn't think it was anything related and he explained to

me it was anxiety. Right. Shany, the support provided to you after 7/7,

was it good enough? It was entirely absent. It took the, you know, real

attention of my family to say there is a problem here, you know, I was

obsessed with the thus. I was very depressed. I didn't have a talking

volume, everything was shouting and snapping at people. And it was my

mum that eventually was right, I'm taking you to the doctor's, you're

not yourself. She put a media ban on my house for a month to kind of

break the cycle of being updated on what the latest was news wise and

when I did go to my GP, my GP was fantastic. However, she did as much

as she could. After that, it's a waiting list and gu on a waiting

list with everyone else that has any kind of potential mental health

problems and that waiting list can be six months long and then when you

do get help, it's not somebody that is specialist in dealing with

post-traumatic stress disorder. You could get any form of standard

counselling, it may not be specific to the needs of somebody that's

experienced what us survivors have experienced. So, in my instance my

counsellor was the wrong person for me. She was a lot, lot older. I was

only 20 at the time. She was using references like the war which was

kind of untangible to me at that age and you know, comparing me to a

soldier that had experienced certain things and at the time, you know, I

didn't quite recognise what that had to do with me. OK, now, in hindsight

probably the closest people to survivors would be, you know, our

armed forces that have been to Afghanistan they may have been and

come back experiencing PDST, but that didn't make any sense to me and

I left after three sessions because I kept leaving my sessions more

frustrated than I did going in. Sure. As a GP, Steve, you will

undoubtedly be seeing, not just survivors necessarily of what

happened at London Bridge and Borough Market at the weekend, but

relativesks people who were in the vicinity, people who weren't caught

up in the immediate violence, but who feel they managed to escape. I

mean, the ripple effect is wide, is it not? It is and it could affect

hundreds of people. One single event and certainly this was in a very

public area. Many hundreds of people were there. I think a very important

point you made was that actually, it can take weeks or months before you

have any symptoms at all as well and it's really about not being fearful

of approving your GP, sounding out your GP what's going on and for them

to McAn assessment really of what sort of help they need. Even if they

come up with the correct assessment, the help won't be available

immediately? That's difficult in some parts of the country and the

provision of specialist post-traumatic stress disorder

support can be patchy in places, but generally speaking psychological

therapy services have improved greatly over the years and I think

if we can prioritise and help make sure that our patients get to the

right place, then we'll certainly be doing our part and then the

secondary services need to pick up there. Simon, will most people be

OK? Well, it depends whatter with' talking about, most people. If we're

talking about most people in the city, the aeb is yes. Most people

are feeling anxious and concerned, but when we studied the populations

involved in the London bombs and all sorts, there haven't about a few

now, most people get better using their own resources, 90% of people

talk to friends and colleagues, they don't talk to people like me. Those

that are directly involved, obviously are a much higher risk

clearly and even then we do know also still most people will get

better. Some of the early interventions we've done in the past

have not helped at all, but I think that things are different since 2005

and I know that doesn't help you in the slightest, but there has been a

big, big investment in improving access to psychological therapies.

But there are still waiting lists. There are still waiting lists. There

has been a huge investment and it is something we've done well in this

country and I do think people now would be seen much quicker than you

were Shaney. We both ran into the studio together. So we're

breathless. Can I ask about those who weren't directly, who aren't

directly affected, who aren't Shaney and who aren't Colin, they might

find they are anxious or hyper vigilant or super sensitive. Is that

a problem? Do we need to worry less about them? We find that, we're here

for anyone at any time who has been a victim of trifle and we would ask

them if they feel any symptoms at all, anxiety, hyper vigilance to

call our support line number. What we will do at our support line is we

will either offer them emotional trauma support, we have trauma

trained counsellors who are there, give them information about what

they might need to move on to, what they might be suffering at the

moment or just practical support. The sort of things we have been

doing for Manchester victims now, accommodation or about transport or

so on. What I would say is, anyone who is experiencing anything should

feel that they can get in touch and the important thing is this idea of

having a single point of contact because once they're there and

they've contacted that point, we can then help them on that journey

because the pathway can be long for some people. Colin talked about the

idea of something triggering and it suddenly coming back and Shaney

talked about the same thing, so the idea that you can come back at that

point is really important. That didn't happen with me. I came back

for counselling after eight years when I then felt ready in myself and

I then recognised I still had PDST symptoms. I have very bad memory now

which I now understand comes from the fact when you have experienced

trauma you can actually experience memory loss to take away what you

went through, but that can also wipe out a tonne of other memories before

that occasion and it was only when I started recognising other symptoms

coming forward that I went back and again I went to the back of the

waiting listment I waited again before I got seen. I had 12 sessions

and when my councillor suggested another 12 because he was no longer

going to be working in that area, he was moving, he said to be honest, I

think you're going to end up back again at the beginning. That's not

good enough. Colin is nodding in agreement with much of what you're

saying Shaney. Colin, from your experience, what would you like to

see happen by those affected by the London Bridge and Manchester

attacks? Definitely the response to be quicker. It was mentioned earlier

on when I first, my wife first visited someone that they thought it

was probably a year to 18 months that MDST, the signs would come

through. I would disagree with that. I would say anyone that's showing

any signs of being anxious, to just get on the net and try and find some

support groups, people that have been through it just to pick up and

speak to people that have been through it. Unfortunately, the

medical assistance is lacking. There is no doubt about it. I'm not

blaming anybody at all. The NHS is at full stretch, but there will be,

the fall-out, you know, with the group, the survivors I'm with and

with the 7/7 guys and with the other previous victims, there is no

central location and we have Victim Support and a few other support

groups that are self funded, they need to get more funding and with us

leaving the EU a lot of the funding does come from the EU.

It is natural to feel anxious and hyper vigilant after these events

and actually, down the line if it becomes abnormal, pathological,

that's when you need to come and see a GP. Can I just encourage people

who have been affected by Manchester or London Bridge to phone our

support line. We do need to remember, we are talking about

victims and Shaney and Colin, there are six million people in the city.

Most are not victims. Most do not need people like me, professional

support, people are more resilient than we give them credit for and we

mead to concentrate our resources on the people we have been talking to

today and do better to be quicker where we have things to to do help.

Do you have the number? 08081689111. Thank you. Shany, thank you for

talking to us. Shaney, we appreciate your time. And Mark Castle.

Anyone from Manchester, the young girls in particular, if they would

like my personal help, I would love to be there for you. I know exactly

what you are going through, and I think that is really important. That

current survivors help future survivors. Are you on Twitter? Yes,

please reach out if you need me, I am here.

Still to come, Conservative MP Andrew Mitchell talks drugs, how he

got the nickname Thrasher and his favourite Coldplay track.

Also this hour, politicians have been calling for measures

to regulate cyberspace to prevent the spread of extremist material.

We'll be speaking to an Internet Safety Expert to find

out how people become radicalised online.

Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

The Metropolitan Police is facing questions over a decision

to downgrade a previous inquiry into one of the three men behind

It's been revealed that one of the attackers,

Khuram Butt, was investigated by counter-terrorism officers

Seven people were killed and dozens injured in the incident

Australian police say they're treating a siege at an apartment

in the Australian city of Melbourne as a "terrorist incident".

Police shot and killed a lone gunman who had been holding a woman

Another man was found dead in the foyer.

So-called Islamic State has claimed responsibility but authorities say

there's no evidence so far to suggest it was a

The boss of British Airways' parent company says that human error caused

last week's IT meltdown that led to travel chaos for

Willie Walsh said an engineer disconnected a power supply,

with the major damage caused by a surge when it was reconnected.

He's promised to make the findings of an independent

The brother of the Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi

has been released without charge by police.

Ismail Abedi, who's 23, was detained in the city the day

after the attack on the Manchester Arena.

18 people have so far been detained as part of the investigation.

That's the latest news, join me for BBC newsroom live from 11.

Play is just getting under way in England's Champions Trophy match

England have been put into bat - and victory would give them a place

The cause of death of former Newcastle midfielder Cheick Tiote

is still being investigated by his new club in Beijing.

He collapsed during training and died later in hospital.

Andy Murray thanked the French Open crowd for continuing to turn out,

despite the recent terror attacks - he's through to the quarter-finals,

British Cycling's board of directors are set to be replaced

after the governing body called an emergency meeting next

A long awaited report into British Cycling's culture

And Sir Ben Ainslie's America's Cup challenge has faltered -

he and his crew are 2-0 down against New Zealand

in the semi-final series - first to five wins it.

A former Conservative cabinet minister has told this programme

he wants to return to a top job and believes Britain should

Andrew Mitchell - who resigned from the government after swearing

at Downing Street police officers when they refused to let him out

via the main gates - was speaking to me as part

of our Vic's Van Share interviews, recorded

In it he reveals how he got the nickname Thrasher,

his brush with drugs at university and his favourite Coldplay song.

Let's begin with your Government's record.

What is the national debt at the moment?

I cannot give you the figures, but I can tell you what the deficit is.

I don't want to know what the deficit is yet.

The national debt is very high, about 1.5 trillion,

What was was it when the Conservatives came in in 2010?

But that shows how difficult it is to bring down the debt.

You have a Conservative Party which is committed to fiscal

responsibility, and getting the deficit down and getting

the debt down, and even with the very heavy restraints,

the austerity that many people complain about,

we have still seen debt rising and the deficit coming

Are you shocked that a Conservative Government

has added ?700 billion to the country's debt pile?

Do you think if it was another party would be really shocked

It would be much worse today if it was another party.

What reassures the markets that the Conservatives have got

a grip on this is that the deficit is coming down, but the fact

that the level of debt has gone up by so much shows you how very

difficult it is to constrain public expenditure.

Hang on a minute, your previous Conservative Chancellor said by now

the deficit would have been paid off, by a couple of years ago,

he would have been able to bring the debt down.

I don't know how many times George Osborne

as Chancellor promised that, three, four, five times?

Your Government has failed to do that.

And the debt is projected to rise again next year.

I don't agree with your analysis, because there is a difference

You cannot bring the debt down until you have cleared the deficit,

which you promised to do on three, four, five occasions.

We have brought the deficit down, you are right we have not cleared

it, we are still intent on clearing it as soon as we feasibly can.

Do you know how many council homes were built last year?

I have not got the figure on my fingertips.

Do you know how any people are on the housing waiting list?

The determination of the Government is to build more homes.

Do you know how many people are on the housing waiting list?

We made it clear we will build more homes.

You have been in power for seven years.

We have tried to ensure we will build more homes,

we are deeply conscious of the need to do so, also for

As we have seen in our manifesto, there is a commitment to make

progress, and I am certain that we will.

I live in my constituency and I also have a house in London.

But I live in my constituency and London...

The IFS has analysed your already-announced tax

Working families on tax credits with children,

3 million of those households will be ?2,500 a year worse off.

How is that helping the just about managing?

Your first question and this question underline the difficulties

It is a priority to bring down the deficit and the debt,

and then you point to areas where we are doing that

and the difficulties that are imposed on families.

That is the point about being in Government,

We live in a country where we have seen the lowest

unemployment figures, the highest employment figures

for many years, since the 1960s, which is a tremendous achievement.

Theresa May has promised on behalf of the Conservatives that she will

We are very committed to helping the just about managing.

As a result of the policies that we have unveiled,

we hope to continue the tremendous success we have seen over the last

3 million working families with children on tax credit will be

?2,500 a year worse off, how is that a tremendous success?

The tremendous success we have had is in running the economy in a way

that has produced more jobs, more growth than was ever expected

when we came to power in 2010 and inherited the desperate

situation that was then prevailing as a result of the work

Theresa May has promised not to put VAT up.

She is conspicuously failing to promise that she will not put

If you had to pick between them, which will it be that will go up

We have made these things very clear in our manifesto,

it is extremely important, because of the constraints

on public expenditure, that we are clear, and we have been

If you had to guess which one will go up, national

I cannot tell you, we will have to wait and see

He has the information, he will know what is best to do

to meet our objectives on the public finances and continue to deliver

growth in the many economic benefits we have seen recently.

You accept that one or other will go up?

No, I am saying that the Chancellor is in the best position

to make these judgments and that he will do so.

I did what I promised my constituents at the last election.

No, I think we should have stayed, but I accept

we are leaving and we have to get the best-possible deal.

"It is difficult to see, with the best will in the world,

how a non-Brexiteer can lead the Conservative Party

Now we have a Remainer leading the party and the country.

I assumed that the referendum would be won by David Cameron,

and so there would be resistance to that by the Tory Party and it

would be difficult thereafter to see how a non-Brexiteer

But the reverse happened, and it is probably a great advantage

that we have somebody who was a reluctant

Very ambitious for my constituents and the Royal Town

of Sutton Coldfield, very ambitious for my country,

If you could pick a job in the Cabinet, if the Conservatives

I would not pick a job in the Cabinet.

But if I said to you, you can have any job in the Cabinet,

I would not even contemplate it under the bed clothes late at night.

Of course you would, you said you were ambitious!

I would not presume even to contemplate such a thing.

But you would like another job, yes or no?

Yes, I have always made it clear I am hoping

to resume my ministerial career, but it is not a matter for me,

Let's talk about foreign aid, because as former international

development secretary you committed to paying foreign aid

to countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria and so on.

Some Conservative supporters and supporters of other parties

No, the important thing it is well used.

But we have to make sure that we do the right thing by British taxpayers

and ensure that every pound of their hard-earned taxes

that we spend in this way, we really get 100 pence delivery

The budget for the Ministry of Justice last year,

when the prisons were in crisis, was 6 billion, less than half

We gave a very firm, strong promise, all political parties did,

that we would allocate 0.7% of our budget to help

the most-wretched and poorest people in the world.

I am incredibly proud that at a time of great austerity my own party

stood by that promise and did not seek to balance the books