13/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


13/06/2017

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Hello, it's Tuesday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

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The law no deal, Theresa May will meet the leader of the DUP to broker

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a will to help her stay on in Number Ten. -- deal or no deal. Theresa May

:00:25.:00:30.

tells the party there will be no backtracking on gay rights, despite

:00:31.:00:34.

the deal with the DUP, but could it signal an end to austerity and a

:00:35.:00:36.

shift on Brexit? With MPs returning

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to the Commons today, we've gathered together

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a group of you to tell politicians what you want

:00:42.:00:43.

from them in their job. Integrity, I think integrity is key,

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we want somebody that will have the same persona in their public life as

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they do in their private lie. Sir Menzies have an inability to answer

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questions directly, and it is really simple. -- some MPs. Serving as an

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MP is a privilege, not a right. Almost a year since Jo Cox was

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murdered, her parents tell us how much they miss her. We will always

:01:34.:01:37.

be broken, because there is a piece missing. To the outside, while we do

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appear strong, all of us, there is a lot of days when they are bad, it is

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bad. We'll talk to Jo Cox's sister

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and husband before 11. And this programme has learned that

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another group which represents sexual abuse survivors is pulling

:01:57.:02:01.

out of the Government's sex abuse inquiry, accusing Theresa May of

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failing to protect survivors. We will hear from them before ten.

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Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.

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the latest breaking news and developing stories.

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that people trying to bulk up with protein bars and shakes

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If you use them, get in touch - use #Victorialive.

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And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

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Our top story today, Theresa May will meet Arlene Foster to thrash

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out the details of a deal to support a minority, government.

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Opposition parties criticised the talks, Sinn Fein suggesting the deal

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would undermine the Good Friday peace agreement. With Brexit talks

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due to begin in less than a week, the EU chief negotiator Michel

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Barnier has called on Britain not to waste time. A medical correspondent

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Ben Wright has more. -- political correspondent Ben Wright has more.

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DUP leader Arlene Foster said it is a tremendous opportunity

:03:15.:03:16.

Theresa May knows a deal with the DUP is her only

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So an agreement will be reached, probably today,

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A confidence-and-supply arrangement will provide

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DUP support to the Tories on major votes

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like the Budget and the Queen's Speech.

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The alliance leaves the Government

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with a vulnerable majority of just six.

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But Theresa May now looks safer in her job

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after a meeting with Tory MPs yesterday evening.

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She apologised for the disastrous campaign,

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declaring, "I got us into this mess and I will get us out of it."

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There is a reality that is we have to be pragmatic about what is

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introduced, we have got to work harder to try to bring people

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along with us, both inside the Conservative Party and beyond.

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And while Theresa May tries to rebuild the Government

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from a hung parliament, a warning from the EU

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that the UK is wasting valuable time negotiating Brexit.

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More than two months have passed since Theresa May

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handed in the UK's notice, but no talks have happened,

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and there is a two-year deadline to hammer out a Brexit deal.

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Speaking to the Financial Times, EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier

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said the UK needed to appoint a negotiated team with a mandate

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soon because the process would be extraordinarily complex.

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Theresa May is also facing calls from some Tory MPs and Labour

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exactly the uncertainty she wanted the election to stop.

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We can talk to Norman Smith, who is in Downing Street, where politicians

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are arriving for a Cabinet meeting, but tell us what we can expect from

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this deal to be brokered between Arlene Foster and Theresa May. Well,

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the deal is basically Mrs May's political lifeline to survival,

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because without it she does not have a majority in the Commons, and she

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cannot govern, so she absolutely has to have this deal. I think it is

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almost certain she will get it, otherwise Arlene Foster probably

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would not be coming here. So we can expect they'd heal, and part of it

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will be a simple transaction, money for votes, Arlene Foster will want

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cash for investment, schools, hospitals, maybe a few international

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conferences, maybe government contracts, big sporting events in

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Northern Ireland, to show that she is getting something for Northern

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Ireland out of the deal. But the interesting part of the arrangement

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is what is not going to be spelt out, and that is the implications

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for austerity and Brexit. On austerity, the DUP have always

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opposed many of the austerity measures introduced by this and the

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previous governments. They still oppose things like the bedroom tax,

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getting rid of the triple lock on pensions, means testing benefits for

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the elderly, so the expectation is Mrs May will have to drop large

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chunks of austerity. That is not as difficult as it sounds, because

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Tories believe that one of the reasons Mr Corbyn did so well is

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because he kept banging on about austerity. So to some extent she is

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pushing at an open door. The more complex and difficult area is on

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Brexit, because those ministers and MPs who want to shift Mrs May away

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from her approach on Brexit, and instead to focus on the economy and

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the impact on the economy of Brexit, believe that the DUP will be on

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board, because of their concerns about what might happen if there is

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some sort of hard border between northern and southern Ireland. So

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there is a view that perhaps the DUP could help tilt the argument now

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raging again over Brexit against Mrs May. Thank you for the moment,

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Norman Smith, at Downing Street. Joanna has the rest of the morning's

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news. A brother and sister have been arrested after a man in his 40s was

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shot dead at a property in Slough. Reuben and Kathleen Gregory are

:07:25.:07:28.

being held on suspicion of murder. The pair are said to have lived in a

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caravan near woodland in Slough for more than 50 years.

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A BBC investigation has discovered 22 Facebook accounts belonging

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They breach the company's rules banning them from the website.

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Radio 4's File On 4 programme found most of the accounts

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were taken down within 48 hours of being reported,

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while six were referred to police to investigate.

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The European Court of Human Rights and France will rule later whether

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the live support of a Yale baby boy in London can be switched off.

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Charlie Gard's parents want to take him to the US for treatment. The UK

:08:13.:08:16.

Supreme Court agreed with specialist doctors that he should instead

:08:17.:08:17.

received palliative care. A group representing abuse survivors

:08:18.:08:22.

has told this programme that it is quitting the government's

:08:23.:08:24.

independent inquiry The White Flowers Campaign has said

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it blames Theresa May - who set up the inquiry

:08:28.:08:31.

when she was Home Secretary - The group, which represents more

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than a hundred survivors, said it had lost faith

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in the inquiry and accused it of not

:08:38.:08:39.

being truly independent. The jury in the trial of the US

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entertainer Bill Cosby, who's appearing on sex assault

:08:44.:08:45.

charges, will return to court later having failed to reach

:08:46.:08:48.

a verdict last night. The 79-year-old is accused

:08:49.:08:50.

of assaulting a woman at his home The Cosby Show star denies

:08:51.:08:52.

the allegations and says the relationship

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was consensual. A woman has been charged

:08:56.:09:01.

with murder after a man died following a collision

:09:02.:09:04.

with a tram in Manchester. The 30-year-old man died

:09:05.:09:06.

at the scene at Manchester Victoria

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station on Sunday evening. 31-year-old Charrissa Loren

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Brown-Wellington New guidelines are being introduced

:09:12.:09:26.

to ensure that sentences for offences committed against children

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in England and Wales properly reflect the arm suffered by victims.

:09:30.:09:33.

Those who try to blame others could face tougher punishments. The

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parents of murdered MP Jo Cox told this programme they will always be

:09:41.:09:43.

broken after their daughter's death. Friday marks a year since the Labour

:09:44.:09:48.

MP was killed outside a constituency surgery. This weekend, her family is

:09:49.:09:52.

encouraging people to join with friends and neighbours for a series

:09:53.:09:56.

of community events being held in her memory. We will talk to her

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husband Brendan and sister Kim at around half past ten.

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Bev on Facebook says my heart goes out to Jo's family for their loss

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and the way she was murdered, but life goes on. She is in a better

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place, let her rest in peace. On Facebook, a very sad loss, Jason on

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Facebook says, what a beautiful woman Jo Cox was. Alex, if

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Parliament was made up of people like Jo Cox, what an amazing society

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we would be living in. Thank you very much for those. Let me bring

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you breaking news from Germany, it is being reported by a French news

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agency, several people have been wounded after shots were fired at a

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railway station near Munich. One person has been detained, according

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to police, several people have been injured, a female police officer was

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badly wounded. Munich police have just tweeted, authorities say a

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handgun was found during a police operation at a station in Munich,

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although it is not thought to be terrorist related. Several people

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injured after shots were fired at a railway station near Munich, one

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person detained, it is not thought to be terrorism related, we are

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being told. Clearly, we will bring you more as soon as we have it. 11

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minutes past nine, we will talk to voters in the next few minutes about

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what they want from MPs, who returned to work today, who returned

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to the Commons after that election. So much as happened in the last few

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days, hasn't it? But they are going to draw up a sort of manifesto of

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what they would like from MPs as they come back to work, get in touch

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with your own views. OK, let's bring you a bit of sport.

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And British bobsleigh is the latest sport to have its coaches

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come under scrutiny. What's been going on?

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Yes, a senior coach working with the country's Olympic bobsleigh

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And there have been a number of complaints over a "toxic

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Earlier this year, a host of athletes wrote anonymously

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to the chief executive of the sport's governing

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to share concerns over the behaviour of key performance

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One athlete alleged they had experienced racism several times

:12:17.:12:20.

from a senior coach, and that the coach referred to black

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people as lazy and had "a blatant dislike towards people of colour".

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in favour of Caucasian males on the performance programme

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and a racial stigma against black drivers.

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Another complainant said, "sexist comments are regular,

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there have been claims of racist remarks which all get ignored,

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athletes are literally terrified of putting a foot wrong,"

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and there was "dictatorship within the management".

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Despite this, just a month later, the people complaining were told no

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So certainly want to watch in great British bobsleigh.

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And Theresa May might a chance to go to the football tonight?

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Yes, Theresa May and Emmanuel Macron will be at the Stade de France in

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Paris, I imagine they will get time to talk politics, but quite a

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significant fixture - just a friendly between England and France,

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but the significance is that French fans have been as to sing God Save

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The Queen in solidarity with Britain after the terror attacks in

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Manchester and London. The tribute echoes a couple of years ago when

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British fans, English fans at Wembley were asked to sing La

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Marseillaise alongside the French fans, just four days after those

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atrocities in Paris, so it kind of return fixture, if you like, four

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French fans at the Stade de France. This were being's last game of the

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season, just a friendly against France, kick-off is at a de-clutter

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night. And England's younger football is

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back with their World Cup. Yes, they flew back late last night

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from South Korea, the first World Cup win since 1966, this is them

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arriving back, manager Mark Simpson said it was too soon to claim they

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are the next generation of golden players. Gareth Southgate has said

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it is to over the clubs to nurture this young talent, and it will be

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interesting to see what happens to them next, because a lot of these

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players you may not have heard of, but they are signed to big clubs,

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and I think Gareth Southgate means that they all need a regular

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first-team pitch time with their clubs so that they continue to

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develop and improve, improve future England squads. And the worry is

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that, in chasing success, clubs will spend a lot of money on expensive

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foreign players, and that this home-grown, World Cup winning talent

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will spend much of next season on the bench.

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Thank you very much, Katherine, more from her during the morning. It is

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nearly quarter past nine this Tuesday morning, and the most

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powerful woman in Britain meet the Prime Minister in Downing Street

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today. A little bit of laughter from our voters!

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Arlene Foster of the Democratic Unionist Party, a small political

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party from Northern Ireland with just ten MPs,

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arrives to see what Theresa May can offer her in exchange

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for the DUP's support because Theresa May's Conservatives

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didn't win a majority in the last week's election,

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Mrs May needs those ten DUP MPs to stay on in government.

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Let's speak now to the former Conservative party leader and former

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Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith.

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Good morning. Do you feel any kind of affinity with the DUP? Can I say

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one thing, the football match with France. I was at the England match

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and I think it is wholly fitting and when I met French people they were

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very moved that the fans had sung the French anthem. My question was

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do you feel any kind of affinity with the DUP? Well, in the sense

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that the Conservative Party is the majority party, but hasn't got a

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overall majority. The DUP, it seems, appear, and are keen to let the

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Conservative Party govern and as a result of that Theresa May has to

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have a discussion with them. I think what you will find it is not about

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having an affinity, it is about what on balance are the things that they

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most want, the Conservatives to be in Government for and it's clear

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that the kind of arrangement I expect we'll end up with will be

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what they call a supply and confidence. That's to say on votes

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of confidence they will support us. On things like the Queen's Speech,

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they'll support us. On things like the Budget they will support us, but

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they will keep their own counsel on other things and they may not

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support us on other things, but the key areas where the votes are

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important, they by and large will back us. But it won't be a

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coalition, it will be a confidence and supply agreement. As long as

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they do back you on those big votes, it's OK with you, is it, that some

:16:56.:17:00.

of their MPs are repulsed by gay people, don't believe in same-sex

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marriage and don't believe in climate change and don't believe

:17:06.:17:08.

women who have been raped should have adorations? A large number of

:17:09.:17:14.

these issues are devolved issues, but it's not going to change

:17:15.:17:18.

anything. Theresa May made it clear on these areas where the

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Conservative Party is settled and clear, the DUP will have no

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influence over our views. We'll also anyway on those issues have a much

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broader consensual cross party arrangement so we wouldn't need the

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DUP on those issues, you know, I voted for gay marriage. I'm not

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going toe trenching on that one is nor is the Conservative Party. This

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will be an agreement, it is not about what their beliefs are, it is

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about key areas of Government where they believe the Conservative Party

:17:45.:17:46.

needs to deliver to keep the country stable and that's it. Will voters

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get to see the terms of this deal? I don't think they will be that

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complex, but I'm sure they will be clear and open. I would certainly

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want them to be that because it's clear that understand that what we

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won't have got involved in is any complex arrangement. Now, there is,

:18:01.:18:04.

and going to be issues around investment in Northern Ireland, but

:18:05.:18:06.

those are issues anyway that would have to be tackled as this is an

:18:07.:18:11.

area that is of very high priority to restabilise after the troubles

:18:12.:18:14.

and to make sure that the people there get good work and jobs and

:18:15.:18:18.

getting businesses there. That sort of stuff is just something that was

:18:19.:18:23.

in the plans. It is worth bearing in mind that as I understand Gordon

:18:24.:18:27.

Brown was busy trying to do deal with them in 2010 as well. So these

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kind of mathematical things are part of Parliament. And it seems that the

:18:33.:18:37.

political price to pay for doing that deal from a Conservative point

:18:38.:18:42.

of view, it will mean an end to austerity which some Conservative

:18:43.:18:45.

backbenchers will welcome because the DUP don't support your measures

:18:46.:18:49.

on austerity and Mrs May's and your vision of Brexit will have to go?

:18:50.:18:52.

Well, let's deal with the austerity thing. Look, there were lots and

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lots of issues and many of us, remember I resigned over a year ago

:18:57.:19:01.

because I disagreed with George Osborne's direction of tral and I

:19:02.:19:06.

have asked us to re-think whole areas of where we are. The length of

:19:07.:19:11.

time that we are asking public servants and others to put up with

:19:12.:19:15.

reduced flattened salaries has been an issue for me and many other

:19:16.:19:19.

people and we would like to see that revisited. This isn't just an issue

:19:20.:19:22.

to do with the DUP. What the election told us the election was

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too early and we should have had time to resolve those issues, but,

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on one side, there is a genuine discussion about that and I think

:19:30.:19:32.

there are key issues around education and stuff that we need to

:19:33.:19:36.

resolve. On the side of the Brexit side, actually the DUP are very

:19:37.:19:40.

clear that they support Theresa May's original position which is no,

:19:41.:19:44.

thet want control of the bofrders, money and laws. There will be no

:19:45.:19:47.

entry into the single market and they're keen not to be in the

:19:48.:19:54.

customs union. But they are opposed to her mantra of no deal is better

:19:55.:19:58.

than a bad deal. They're not actually opposed that. I promise you

:19:59.:20:06.

that this will become clear the DUP supports what her position is at

:20:07.:20:08.

time of the election and the majority of the Conservative Party

:20:09.:20:11.

believes this is a settled issue. So any idea... Well Ruth Davidson

:20:12.:20:22.

doesn't. Not every single MP from Scotland necessarily follows her

:20:23.:20:25.

line. The point is the party overall is settled. What we want, obviously

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is to engage and discuss these matters with people, but in essence

:20:30.:20:33.

those negotiations are due to start very, very shortly, ie next week and

:20:34.:20:35.

the can Conservative Government needs to get on and make sure that

:20:36.:20:39.

they now start talking to our European allies and friends about

:20:40.:20:43.

how we arrange to have the benefits as the Labour Party stood on the

:20:44.:20:47.

same manifesto, they stood on a manifesto which said no to the

:20:48.:20:50.

single market. No to customs union and control of our borders. So the

:20:51.:20:54.

majority of the British people had in front of them two parties that

:20:55.:20:58.

constituted the majority of the votes that stood on very similar

:20:59.:21:02.

manifestoes on Brexit. But it's not settled, is it? You must acknowledge

:21:03.:21:08.

from the lack of a majority and bass of people like Ruth Davidson,

:21:09.:21:12.

perhaps you think she's flexing her muscles too much, the question of

:21:13.:21:15.

your Brexit vision has been reopened whether you like it or not? I'm not

:21:16.:21:19.

overly bothered about that. The truth is we're going into

:21:20.:21:25.

negotiations and in negotiations different elements will cold out I

:21:26.:21:28.

think that the Conservative Party, people in Cabinet, who may well seem

:21:29.:21:32.

to think that they're going to start reopening this, the answer is I

:21:33.:21:35.

wouldn't try and re-open this before you start the negotiations because

:21:36.:21:40.

all you'll get is what we don't want is another argument and row going on

:21:41.:21:43.

in the governing party. What we need, we had a settled position. We

:21:44.:21:47.

had agreed that position before we went into the last election. The

:21:48.:21:51.

Labour Party to save their votes in those areas where there were strong

:21:52.:21:56.

Leavers who voted Labour in the past they adopted almost exactly the same

:21:57.:21:59.

position, you heard John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn saying in terms

:22:00.:22:03.

over the weekend we will not be in the single market. They do not

:22:04.:22:07.

intend to be in the customs union, but they want the benefits of having

:22:08.:22:10.

a good trade deal and good arrangements for access and that's

:22:11.:22:12.

what the Conservative negotiators want. So in a sense, what you've got

:22:13.:22:18.

is a minority of people who just trying to prise this open again, it

:22:19.:22:22.

shouldn't be opened and we should just get on with it and try and get

:22:23.:22:28.

the best deal we can which helps preserve jobs and get good trade

:22:29.:22:29.

deals. Iain Duncan Smith. Iain Duncan Smith will join hundreds

:22:30.:22:33.

of other MPs as they return to Parliament for the first time

:22:34.:22:36.

since the election on Thursday, an election which not only produced

:22:37.:22:39.

a result which virtually no one was expecting,

:22:40.:22:42.

but also showed yet more evidence of a country which is divided,

:22:43.:22:44.

with many who feel let down by traditional politics

:22:45.:22:47.

and politicians, and who aren't happy with the way

:22:48.:22:49.

many conduct themselves. So what lessons can be learned

:22:50.:22:51.

from the campaign, and what does it tell us about how the country

:22:52.:22:54.

wants our politicians to behave? We've brought together a group

:22:55.:22:56.

of voters here in the studio to chew the fat with two new MPs and two

:22:57.:23:00.

with just a little more experience. And we're going to try and draw

:23:01.:23:03.

up our audience manifesto or code of conduct for how

:23:04.:23:06.

they want our politicians Bambos Charalambous

:23:07.:23:08.

is the new Labour MP Christine Jardine, the new Lib Dem

:23:09.:23:17.

MP for Edinburgh West. John Baron, Conservative MP for

:23:18.:23:25.

Basildon and Billericay since 2001. Ben Bradshaw, the Labour MP

:23:26.:23:28.

in Exeter since 1997. I can barely remember that year!

:23:29.:23:38.

Welcome everybody. We've got voters as well. Let me ask, not the

:23:39.:23:43.

politicians, our voters first of all. What word would you use to

:23:44.:23:50.

describe politicians right now? Shady. Disindisingeneralous.

:23:51.:24:07.

Dishonest. I'll come back with one word!

:24:08.:24:08.

LAUGHTER I have more than one word. No, give

:24:09.:24:16.

me a some if you can't contain it to one. In need of one. Yeah, I

:24:17.:24:20.

strongly believe they're divided. You can see that throughout their

:24:21.:24:23.

parties, not just in the Conservative Party, but also in the

:24:24.:24:26.

Labour Party. Too divided. What about you? I would say unavailable.

:24:27.:24:32.

Unavailable definitely. Meaning, what you can't get access to them?

:24:33.:24:36.

They don't come across that way. They come across from a come across

:24:37.:24:47.

as if they're from a completely different world. How do you react to

:24:48.:24:53.

those adjectives? I think it's understandable that people would

:24:54.:24:55.

think that way after some of the things that happened in British

:24:56.:24:58.

politics over the past few years. I'm not at all surprised. I think we

:24:59.:25:06.

have to work to reassure people that we're not all duplicitous or shady

:25:07.:25:09.

and try to be more united in the way that we look at things? I think we

:25:10.:25:13.

need to regain the trust of the public. Easier said than done? It is

:25:14.:25:18.

hard, but you get a and great opportunity as a new MP to build

:25:19.:25:21.

that trust with your electorate. We need to go out there and make sure

:25:22.:25:25.

we are listening to people and that we are truly representing them. Ben

:25:26.:25:29.

Bradshaw, you have been an MP for a long time. You will have heard these

:25:30.:25:33.

adjectives before, is it disheartening that people are still

:25:34.:25:38.

saying this? It is a bit. I won a Tory seat in 1997, I have a 16,000

:25:39.:25:42.

majority, I haven't achieved that by not being available and your advice

:25:43.:25:46.

to the new MPs and to long-standing MPs was the right one. Make yourself

:25:47.:25:52.

available. Jo Cox was a fantastic role model about what an MP could be

:25:53.:25:55.

like and should be like. She made herself very available and lost her

:25:56.:25:59.

life for doing that and certainly it's a model that good MPs and the

:26:00.:26:05.

vast majority of MPs are in this because they want to serve their

:26:06.:26:10.

constituents and their country. The vast majority of MPs go into

:26:11.:26:14.

politics for the right reason because the concept of public

:26:15.:26:17.

service, they want to serve the public. And I think the vast

:26:18.:26:22.

majority do a decent job at that, but there is this disconnect which

:26:23.:26:25.

we need to try and repair and mend and all I would say is look at your

:26:26.:26:29.

own individual MP because what is interesting in this debate is when

:26:30.:26:32.

you talk to constituents, you get a different view of their local MP

:26:33.:26:35.

than you do of the concept generally. The nature of this

:26:36.:26:39.

conversation, it is broadly generalised, you appreciate that,

:26:40.:26:42.

but Mel, you will have heard politicians say look, we are in it

:26:43.:26:47.

for the right motive, so why do you still have such a bad feeling about

:26:48.:26:51.

them, that their reputation is so poor? Well, I don't have a totally

:26:52.:26:57.

bad feeling, but I think there is not enough leadership coming from

:26:58.:27:00.

politicians. When we face Brexit, we will need more than political

:27:01.:27:04.

management. We need people who can articulate a political vision and

:27:05.:27:07.

who can answer the question of what sort of nation do we want to be?

:27:08.:27:11.

Instead we get politicians who are concerned or seemingly only with the

:27:12.:27:14.

next five year election cycle, so I think we need to do better on

:27:15.:27:17.

leadership. That's a very, very good point. I think one of the things we

:27:18.:27:22.

need to do more is set out why we want a good deal. The prospect of

:27:23.:27:29.

opportunity that's there and paint reasons for actually negotiating

:27:30.:27:32.

that good deal and being positive and I think that's one thing perhaps

:27:33.:27:36.

we take away as Conservatives from the general election is that we

:27:37.:27:40.

didn't perhaps talk enough about sunnier uplands, the positive

:27:41.:27:44.

reasons for voting and what sort of country we want to live in and there

:27:45.:27:48.

is a lot to be said. David? I don't know, I just get the feeling that

:27:49.:27:52.

Brexit and the recent elections has really exposed politicians to the

:27:53.:27:56.

public about, you know, this is all just grabbing power, you know look

:27:57.:28:00.

at the DUP and people doing deals with each other and it's very dirty.

:28:01.:28:03.

A lot of the time I feel that politicians, I did a lot of

:28:04.:28:06.

campaigning over the years and a lot of time I find that it's difficult

:28:07.:28:09.

to get politicians support for certain things that we know we need

:28:10.:28:13.

to happen in society and I think they need to be working together

:28:14.:28:17.

across parties, especially when it comes to Brexit because both parties

:28:18.:28:22.

are not really obviously... That's going to have to happen now. There

:28:23.:28:28.

is no alternative. Theresa May's destructive hard Brexit is dead.

:28:29.:28:31.

It's over. Everything has changed. We have got to work across party and

:28:32.:28:37.

that's what the public are asking us to do by delivering this election

:28:38.:28:41.

result. I agree and we have ant opportunity to have a much more open

:28:42.:28:46.

approach to Brexit and I was disappointed in what Iain Duncan

:28:47.:28:48.

Smith said because he seemed to take the opposite approach which was the

:28:49.:28:53.

argument is closed. Well, I would argue that the actual election

:28:54.:28:56.

result shows that the argument is not closed. That people rejected

:28:57.:28:59.

Theresa May's very hard Brexit approach and they want a more open

:29:00.:29:05.

approach with as Ben says other ideas coming in, talk across the

:29:06.:29:09.

parties. Gather support from a much broader approach. In Parliamentary

:29:10.:29:15.

practicalities there will have to be Parliamentary consensus because

:29:16.:29:18.

things will get voted down and no progress will be made? Yes, there

:29:19.:29:23.

are discussions going on about how we can rescue our country from this

:29:24.:29:29.

disastrous destructive Brexit which Theresa May set her mind on for no

:29:30.:29:34.

apparent reason. She interpreted the referendum in a particular way which

:29:35.:29:38.

the public rejected. Having been a Remainor herself. Taking it slightly

:29:39.:29:43.

back from Brexit because we could actually be talking Brexit the whole

:29:44.:29:48.

of this time. I said I wanted politicians to recognise that it was

:29:49.:29:53.

a privilege and my comment actually came, it wasn't what I was going to

:29:54.:29:57.

say originally, it came from an interview with the chair of the

:29:58.:30:01.

backbench 1922 committee last night on the news where he said and I'm

:30:02.:30:06.

not quoting verbatim, but he said something on the lines of there are

:30:07.:30:12.

lessons to be learnt the soundbite that has more bite than vibe, one of

:30:13.:30:16.

the things we're going to have to think about is why so many people,

:30:17.:30:19.

some of them must be intelligent, voted Labour!

:30:20.:30:24.

And I just, you know, my hands just went like this. You found that

:30:25.:30:30.

rather patronising. I found that patronising and I found that rude.

:30:31.:30:35.

People, however much integrity you have, you've got to watch your

:30:36.:30:38.

tongues and what you say because we pay your wages.

:30:39.:30:44.

If you could deliver a demand to politicians going back to work

:30:45.:30:50.

today, what do you want from them? I want to feel as the viewer doing the

:30:51.:30:55.

job you are supposed to be doing, representing me, representing my

:30:56.:30:58.

neighbours, and all my friends and all my family and all the people I

:30:59.:31:03.

am ever going to know, you are representing us, so I have to have

:31:04.:31:08.

some affinity with you, and even if we do come from different

:31:09.:31:11.

backgrounds, I have to feel confident that you are representing

:31:12.:31:16.

me - not... I don't want to feel as though you are from a completely

:31:17.:31:20.

different world, I don't get what you are saying, I don't understand

:31:21.:31:24.

what you're saying, how does that affect me, literally, that is what

:31:25.:31:31.

we want to know. The UK referendum is a classic example of the MPs

:31:32.:31:38.

ignoring the population. How do you work that out? Because they try to

:31:39.:31:41.

turn it into a political battle, when in fact it was a vote by the

:31:42.:31:46.

population to decide how they wanted the country to go forward in the

:31:47.:31:50.

future. And what we should be doing now, because the Europeans are our

:31:51.:31:55.

friends, what we should be doing now is forming a commission comprised of

:31:56.:32:00.

both parties, all parties in Parliament, and members of the

:32:01.:32:05.

public, so that they can all go together and negotiate with our

:32:06.:32:10.

friends in Europe. OK. And that way we will see more honest and genuine.

:32:11.:32:18.

One, John. Just briefly, part of the unfortunate thing of just watching

:32:19.:32:22.

PMQs is that there is too much of a risk of seeing politics through the

:32:23.:32:26.

prism of PMQs. What I would like to say is that there is much more

:32:27.:32:31.

co-operation across the parties than is generally realised. For example,

:32:32.:32:36.

I am chair of the all-party Parliamentary group on cancer, which

:32:37.:32:39.

brings politicians from across the political divide together,

:32:40.:32:42.

questioning the Government of the day, whatever their colour. So there

:32:43.:32:46.

is more co-operation than people realise. So why play those

:32:47.:32:53.

particular roles during PMQs? Some of us do not shout... Plenty of your

:32:54.:32:57.

colleagues do. Governments have to be brought to account, and you have

:32:58.:33:02.

to ask difficult questions, and you get direct answers back. But the

:33:03.:33:05.

bottom line is we should remember there is a lot of co-operation, and

:33:06.:33:08.

there needs to be, and I think people are right in the sense that

:33:09.:33:12.

when it comes to Brexit, we are going to have to carry people with

:33:13.:33:16.

us on this issue. I have never understood what the difference was

:33:17.:33:23.

the between hard and soft Brexit, it is a question of getting the best

:33:24.:33:27.

possible deal, and there seems to be an enormous amount of conformity

:33:28.:33:30.

between Labour on the Conservatives with regards to what we want from

:33:31.:33:36.

the EU negotiations. OK. You do see the parties coming together. We are

:33:37.:33:40.

not having the Brexit conversation again! So what are our top three or

:33:41.:33:47.

top five? Put them in order, what do you reckon? Integrity, definitely.

:33:48.:33:53.

So including honesty in that. Transparency, that sort of thing.

:33:54.:34:06.

Passion with respect. Is that number two, is that as high up as it should

:34:07.:34:12.

be? Theresa May sounded like a robot during her campaign... What else, as

:34:13.:34:17.

well as integrity? What else is important? Empathy is a big one, the

:34:18.:34:22.

ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, a boss will tell

:34:23.:34:32.

someone what to do, a leader will show them. MPs need to be leading in

:34:33.:34:37.

compassion, forgiveness, respect, in showing people those values. So how

:34:38.:34:44.

shall we describe that, affinity, empathy? Yeah? Well, I am really

:34:45.:34:51.

interested that is number two, that says a lot, particularly perhaps

:34:52.:34:55.

because of recent weeks. What else are we going for? Clarity. You

:34:56.:35:01.

asking a lot of there, Sharon! Clarity? You mean you don't

:35:02.:35:05.

understand the phrase Brexit means Brexit? I don't understand a word

:35:06.:35:17.

they say! If someone asks me a question, I want the answer, not the

:35:18.:35:25.

same mantra over and over again? Of clarity and directness when they go

:35:26.:35:38.

to press conferences, they know what they are going to say, regardless of

:35:39.:35:42.

the question. We have two experienced politicians and two new

:35:43.:35:46.

politicians, why is it so hard to answer questions directly? If I and

:35:47.:35:52.

so directly, it means a damning headline, is that what is going on?

:35:53.:35:59.

-- if I answer directly. I try to answer directly, I am sure

:36:00.:36:03.

colleagues here do as well, and there is a danger you generalise

:36:04.:36:08.

across all MPs. You have made that point. We decide to do this job as

:36:09.:36:15.

best we can. I have a reputation for speaking my mind, but there is a

:36:16.:36:19.

difference between being in government and in opposition, I am

:36:20.:36:22.

much more free as an opposition backbencher to say whatever I like!

:36:23.:36:28.

Isn't that the problem with party politics? You have to toe the party

:36:29.:36:32.

line, I would love to be in politics, but I could not do that.

:36:33.:36:36.

It is like being in a club, if you come to an agreement in the

:36:37.:36:39.

organisation, you stick to it. If you are going to have a united

:36:40.:36:43.

organisational club, you have to stick to the line. There are ways of

:36:44.:36:46.

answering questions which sounded less evasive than some ministers do

:36:47.:36:52.

it, and you can think of your most and least favourite politicians for

:36:53.:36:56.

and swing questions, but there is a different with collective

:36:57.:36:59.

responsibility and having that freedom. So clarity and directness?

:37:00.:37:04.

Directness and clarity? Any preference? No? Excuse my writing.

:37:05.:37:10.

Clarity and directness... Right, is that it? No, I think four has to be

:37:11.:37:18.

humility, I would put it much higher up. OK, humility. There is such a

:37:19.:37:24.

peeling of we are up here, you are down there, and as you said in your

:37:25.:37:29.

intro, we pay your wages, you are only there because we put an X in

:37:30.:37:37.

the box, so recognised us. Yeah? Are we happy with our top four? What is

:37:38.:37:44.

wrong with passengers I love a bit of passion, believe me! Make its

:37:45.:37:55.

number five! OK, passion! OK... Passion. Sorry! Right, MPs, your

:37:56.:38:07.

reaction? I 100% agree with that, I think humility, the area eyelid in I

:38:08.:38:12.

represent, someone I get the train in the morning, people speak to me.

:38:13.:38:20.

-- the area I live in, I represent. So to be accountable, you have to

:38:21.:38:23.

respect other people, they put their trust in me, I have to respect that.

:38:24.:38:28.

Christian, what about you as a new MP? Formerly a special adviser, you

:38:29.:38:33.

have been around a bit. I don't mean that in the way... You know what I

:38:34.:38:39.

mean, you are experienced! I think those points are all be enough, and

:38:40.:38:42.

one of the problem is that politicians have is that somehow

:38:43.:38:47.

they have managed as a group, not individuals, to portray this image

:38:48.:38:52.

to the public that we don't have personal lives, we don't have

:38:53.:38:55.

families, that we don't actually worry about paying the mortgage

:38:56.:39:00.

ourselves. And I think we need to be more open about the fact that we

:39:01.:39:05.

have lives you are normal people, Shaka! Shark horror! I had personal

:39:06.:39:20.

issues during the campaign, a bereavement, and we got a lot of

:39:21.:39:25.

support. People see you in PMQs, arguing and fighting, and forget

:39:26.:39:27.

that we colleagues and we'll have the same problems. That happened

:39:28.:39:34.

with Jo Cox, to see the whole House come together, they realised she was

:39:35.:39:39.

a really good MP. And beyond that, as the people we represent, I think

:39:40.:39:45.

we are very bad at being open and speaking clearly and honestly about

:39:46.:39:50.

our lives. All right. Are you two happy to sign up to this list? I am

:39:51.:39:56.

sure you already exhibit some of those characteristics! I think, for

:39:57.:40:01.

me, absolutely. One that is missing if I can dare give advice to our new

:40:02.:40:05.

colleagues who have won marginal seats from another party, very hard

:40:06.:40:09.

work - you need to put the hard work in. I agree with all of those,

:40:10.:40:16.

integrity, empathy is very important, we always have to design

:40:17.:40:19.

our policies as best we can to help those more vulnerable at the bottom

:40:20.:40:24.

end of the pay scale and all the rest of it, and employed, one nation

:40:25.:40:28.

politics, if you like, whichever side of the House. But humility is

:40:29.:40:33.

very important. We have, number four. I'm just addressing the list,

:40:34.:40:39.

because it is important that MPs, politics says, we are going to

:40:40.:40:42.

listen, we might have got this wrong, we are going to think about

:40:43.:40:45.

it again. That is carrying people along. I will make a deal with you,

:40:46.:40:50.

Victoria, if we do more of that, the immediate needs to be more tolerant

:40:51.:40:54.

when it comes to accusing us of not knowing where we are going. That is

:40:55.:41:00.

there point, but there are U-turns and there are U-turns! -- a fair

:41:01.:41:07.

point. But you are generalising across the media, as we have been

:41:08.:41:11.

generalising, so right back at you! Very last word. It might sound odd

:41:12.:41:16.

from a Liberal Democrat, but one of the things that had most impact on a

:41:17.:41:19.

generation, helping the Labour Party, the night before he died,

:41:20.:41:24.

John Smith talked about how the Labour Party were asking for the

:41:25.:41:27.

opportunity to serve, and more politicians need to take that sort

:41:28.:41:32.

of approach. It is, as Carol said, about service. Excellent point, I am

:41:33.:41:37.

defending colleagues here - the vast majority, we must member, go for the

:41:38.:41:41.

right reason, and they believe in public service. What message would

:41:42.:41:44.

you give to those who are not following those values? You are

:41:45.:41:50.

saying the right things but the reality is... There is no room for

:41:51.:41:54.

you in politics, and by and large they do get found out on both sides

:41:55.:41:59.

of the House. We are going to ask the MPs to sign up to your code of

:42:00.:42:03.

conduct, if that is right, and if you come across colleagues today, if

:42:04.:42:07.

you wouldn't mind mentioning it, it would be useful. Thank you very much

:42:08.:42:11.

for coming on the programme, we appreciate it. We mentioned Jo Cox a

:42:12.:42:15.

couple of times, one of those politicians that most people think

:42:16.:42:16.

stuck by that code of conduct. On 16th June last year,

:42:17.:42:22.

the Labour MP was murdered outside her constituency

:42:23.:42:24.

in Birstall, Yorkshire. It was a crime that horrified

:42:25.:42:26.

the country but united people In the days, weeks and months

:42:27.:42:28.

that followed, Jo Cox's friends and family pledged

:42:29.:42:33.

to continue her legacy, rather than let it be

:42:34.:42:35.

overshadowed by what happened. In the run-up to the first

:42:36.:42:38.

anniversary of her death, her sister Kim Leadbeater

:42:39.:42:41.

and her family have invited our reporter Catherine Burns

:42:42.:42:43.

to their home for the first time to share their private

:42:44.:42:46.

memories of Jo. We'll never be fully repaired,

:42:47.:42:55.

if you like, because there's always

:42:56.:42:58.

a piece of us missing. I think there must be a difference

:42:59.:43:04.

between denial and disbelief. And Jo's children have got so much

:43:05.:43:09.

of her and Brendan in them. That's a great legacy,

:43:10.:43:18.

I mean, we love that. When I have the darkest

:43:19.:43:29.

and the difficult moments, I just think, right,

:43:30.:43:33.

she would not want you to lose it. to the anger and to

:43:34.:43:38.

the upset and to the hatred. Yes, this is the wonderful

:43:39.:43:46.

town of Batley. She wanted to be at the heart

:43:47.:43:59.

of the constituency, and this is where she decided

:44:00.:44:02.

to base herself. there's still the Jo Cox MP

:44:03.:44:07.

sign on the door. Yes, yes, it's hard

:44:08.:44:11.

to know what to do Is it worse to have it there or

:44:12.:44:14.

better to have it there, you know? I keep saying to myself,

:44:15.:44:25.

if I get through to the end of July with my health

:44:26.:44:28.

and my sanity, I've done well. And then I really don't

:44:29.:44:32.

know what comes after that. because that normal life

:44:33.:44:34.

doesn't exist, you know. Kim Leadbeater

:44:35.:44:39.

has spent this year trying to build a legacy

:44:40.:44:45.

for her sister, Jo Cox. I still miss the sound

:44:46.:44:49.

of her coming down the drive. Her parents have

:44:50.:44:54.

generally avoided the limelight, This is their first interview

:44:55.:44:57.

on national TV. What were you doing

:44:58.:45:05.

when you got that call? We'd just sat down

:45:06.:45:07.

about five minutes, And he just said, "Jo's

:45:08.:45:09.

been shot, I think." And we jumped in the car,

:45:10.:45:21.

I remember I was jumping in the car, I don't know how

:45:22.:45:31.

we managed to get there. People are shot and

:45:32.:45:39.

recover, etc, etc. But you see these things

:45:40.:45:54.

on the television where the doctor, in this

:45:55.:46:07.

case it was a police inspector, comes into the room

:46:08.:46:11.

and he has to tell you. In fact, he doesn't

:46:12.:46:14.

have to tell you. You can see by his

:46:15.:46:17.

expression. And he said, "I'm sorry to say

:46:18.:46:24.

she didn't make it". I think that the difficult

:46:25.:46:27.

thing, it's the That's very, very

:46:28.:46:29.

difficult to understand. And it's about creating a new level

:46:30.:46:36.

of normality for us as a family. One of the things that Kim

:46:37.:46:39.

said afterwards was, "Our family is broken now

:46:40.:46:43.

but we will mend over time". We will always be broken,

:46:44.:46:45.

because there's a piece missing. But, yeah, I think to the outside

:46:46.:46:50.

world we do appear strong. But there's a lot of days

:46:51.:46:56.

when the bad is bad. The long times for us

:46:57.:47:03.

are when we turn the television on and see terrorist acts -

:47:04.:47:06.

Westminster Bridge, Manchester - because that's when it

:47:07.:47:12.

brings everything back. For me, the ambulances,

:47:13.:47:19.

the sirens, I'm back But we still think

:47:20.:47:21.

about the people who have lost loved ones, and we know

:47:22.:47:30.

what they are actually just It must be awful for them.

:47:31.:47:33.

We know what we went through. And unfortunately

:47:34.:47:38.

they don't, as yet. Going forward, build

:47:39.:47:44.

on the children, the grandchildren. Because you're right,

:47:45.:47:48.

it won't go away. And Jo's children have got so much

:47:49.:47:57.

of her and Brendan in them. That's a great legacy

:47:58.:48:13.

and we love that. Jo, she loved them to bits,

:48:14.:48:15.

absolutely loved them. And that's the most

:48:16.:48:17.

upsetting thing, from my It was, for you especially,

:48:18.:48:19.

after Jo was murdered, Lejla and Cuillin came up, and you found it

:48:20.:48:29.

really difficult, didn't you? Obviously this year you've

:48:30.:48:32.

all been part of the But the public face of it

:48:33.:48:41.

has really been Kim. How do you feel about

:48:42.:48:45.

the work she's done? More than one person

:48:46.:48:49.

came up to me after the funeral, and after Kim talked

:48:50.:48:53.

in Birstall marketplace, and said, "You've got not one,

:48:54.:48:58.

but two marvellous daughters. One we saw, Jo, on occasions,

:48:59.:49:05.

on the television And, you know, we're very proud,

:49:06.:49:08.

because I can't separate So this is not what you'd

:49:09.:49:17.

expect your average But this was Jo, just

:49:18.:49:26.

very relaxed, very comfortable, and just embracing

:49:27.:49:30.

the situation she was in. That is absolutely

:49:31.:49:34.

stunning, isn't it? Yeah, that's the birthday

:49:35.:49:38.

karaoke with the Elaine Paige and Barbara Dickson,

:49:39.:49:43.

I Know Him So Well, which was our party piece

:49:44.:49:46.

when we were kids. And it was re-enacted

:49:47.:49:52.

for my birthday last year. # I could have made

:49:53.:49:58.

it differently #. We were really close,

:49:59.:50:10.

like all growing up throughout childhood

:50:11.:50:14.

we were really, really close. There is two years age

:50:15.:50:16.

difference between us, and I am younger, although nobody

:50:17.:50:18.

believed it because Jo looked so We just had a really close

:50:19.:50:21.

relationship, and we never fell out. # But in the end he needs a lit more

:50:22.:50:26.

security. . # It wasn't about Jo Cox

:50:27.:50:47.

MP, it was actually Joanne Leadbeater,

:50:48.:50:50.

who was my sister. Literally sort of within days of Jo

:50:51.:50:51.

been killed, things just started to arrive, and the house

:50:52.:50:54.

was just full of flowers. And that was the classic,

:50:55.:50:58.

line, I never met your sister, but I just had to do

:50:59.:51:00.

something, I just had to say Me and mum and dad when we're out

:51:01.:51:03.

and about and stuff, we go to the supermarket, and we've met

:51:04.:51:07.

people, and they just end Maybe that has detracted

:51:08.:51:10.

from my personal grief, But it has certainly provided

:51:11.:51:17.

comfort and support. At the same time we saw that public

:51:18.:51:22.

outpouring of grief, this was your personal

:51:23.:51:25.

tragedy as well. How did you manage to

:51:26.:51:26.

balance those two things? And, you know, people who knew Jo

:51:27.:51:28.

through politics, people who And initially I found

:51:29.:51:37.

that a bit, hang She's my mum and dad's Jo,

:51:38.:51:41.

and she's Brendan's Jo, really. But then actually you

:51:42.:51:47.

think how lovely it is that so many people

:51:48.:51:49.

wanted her to be their Jo. So you can't possibly

:51:50.:51:52.

be cross about that. Has it hit yet that

:51:53.:51:54.

she isn't coming back? I know exactly

:51:55.:51:57.

what happened. I've got those facts,

:51:58.:52:01.

but I don't think I've got them on a deep emotional level yet, and that

:52:02.:52:05.

worries me, because when that happens it's difficult

:52:06.:52:08.

to know what will happen. I think there must be a difference

:52:09.:52:11.

between denial and disbelief. I've got closer than

:52:12.:52:17.

ever to mum and dad. Which again is heartbreaking

:52:18.:52:27.

at times, when you think, you know, I'm

:52:28.:52:29.

their only child now. And I have guilt associated

:52:30.:52:34.

with that as well, because when the phone rings and it

:52:35.:52:38.

would always be, "oh, it's Like that's, you know,

:52:39.:52:41.

that's gone forever now. It was supposed

:52:42.:52:45.

by Jo's birthday less Her husband, Brendan,

:52:46.:52:49.

spoke in London's We try to remember not how

:52:50.:52:52.

cruelly she has been taken from us, but how unbelievably

:52:53.:52:59.

lucky we were to have her And let me start by saying

:53:00.:53:02.

thank you to everybody My sister would want her murder

:53:03.:53:09.

to mobilise people, To try to make

:53:10.:53:26.

a positive difference. And that's exactly what Kim

:53:27.:53:35.

has spent the last 12 months doing, trying to create

:53:36.:53:39.

something positive from Jo's death. She's worked on causes close

:53:40.:53:43.

to her heart, everything from tackling loneliness to getting

:53:44.:53:46.

communities to But in many ways, she's

:53:47.:53:47.

put her own life on hold. So this is where you

:53:48.:53:54.

had your big speech? Yes, the big tribute to Jo.

:53:55.:53:58.

The big tribute on the 22nd of June. Because I'm a very private person,

:53:59.:54:03.

what I tend to be able to seem to do is just go into this mode

:54:04.:54:07.

of having a job to do and then doing it, and then the fallout

:54:08.:54:11.

for me is often when I get home. So I end up really

:54:12.:54:15.

drained, really tired, and that's when I tend

:54:16.:54:16.

to get more upset. You've spoken a lot today

:54:17.:54:19.

about sort of Jo's legacy, but there's also your life -

:54:20.:54:21.

you, Kim, and what's next for you. I don't know what I'll do,

:54:22.:54:24.

I don't what I'll do. But I think, you know,

:54:25.:54:27.

the platform that we've been given, for the worst possible reasons,

:54:28.:54:29.

my instinct is to try and create something positive

:54:30.:54:32.

out of that by using it in a good way, but I've no idea

:54:33.:54:36.

what shape that takes. We'll be talking to Jo

:54:37.:54:48.

Cox's husband, Brendan, And Kim, Jo's sister. These messages

:54:49.:54:59.

from you. Scott says, "This is a heartbreaking interview with Jo

:55:00.:55:06.

Cox's parents." Kirsty says, "I'm crying over Jo Cox's incredible

:55:07.:55:12.

parents." Kevin Cook tweets to say, "I'm 52 years of age today and I've

:55:13.:55:20.

done a run in memory of Jo Cox and sponsored an AFC Croydon football

:55:21.:55:25.

game in her memory." On our manifesto or code of conduct,

:55:26.:55:30.

whatever you'd like to call the rules that voters came up for

:55:31.:55:32.

politicians as they return to the House of Commons today after the

:55:33.:55:38.

general election, Mel says, "Integrity, honesty, humility. Your

:55:39.:55:41.

panel is spot on today. This is what we want from our politicians."

:55:42.:55:50.

The singer Katy Perry has apologised for "appropriating black and Asian

:55:51.:55:54.

In a recent interview, the singer admitted that she is guilty

:55:55.:55:58.

of cultural appropriation and benefits from what she

:55:59.:55:59.

She's been speaking to promote her latest album, "witness".

:56:00.:56:04.

I've made several mistakes and having a hard conversation with one

:56:05.:56:10.

of my empowered angels about what does it mean? Can can't I wear my

:56:11.:56:14.

hair that way? What is the history behind wearing the hair that way?

:56:15.:56:20.

And she told me about the power in plaque women's hair and how

:56:21.:56:24.

beautiful it is and the struggle. And I listened and I heard and I

:56:25.:56:29.

didn't know and I will never understand some of those things

:56:30.:56:33.

because of who I am. I will never understand.

:56:34.:56:36.

BBC Radio 1 Newsbeat's music reporter Stve

:56:37.:56:37.

Just fill us in a little bit more about what she has been criticised

:56:38.:56:45.

for and why in the past? Katie Perry is a loud pop star. She is full of

:56:46.:56:49.

colour and costumes and that's what has got her into trouble in the

:56:50.:56:53.

past. Two specific occasions. A couple of years ago she sang a song

:56:54.:57:02.

called Unconditionally and she was accused of racism. Secondly, she did

:57:03.:57:07.

a music video called This Is How We Do. She was wearing corn rows and

:57:08.:57:16.

eating watermelon and criticised for appropriating black culture and both

:57:17.:57:20.

times she was criticised and she never really apologised and just

:57:21.:57:24.

said, "I didn't know what I was doing. I'm just a pop star. I I'm

:57:25.:57:32.

just loud." That's how she dealt with any criticism? So the last four

:57:33.:57:38.

days she spent her time in an apartment in America to promote this

:57:39.:57:42.

new album and she has been addressing lots of issues that she

:57:43.:57:45.

has been crit sided for in the past. This cultural appropriation issue is

:57:46.:57:49.

one specifically because in the past she said, "I didn't know I was doing

:57:50.:57:53.

anything wrong. It was up to my friends to tell me this is why you

:57:54.:57:58.

shouldn't be wearing corn rows because you're using black culture

:57:59.:58:04.

for your own gain." There are other issues that she has been dealing

:58:05.:58:08.

with. The feud with Taylor Swift which is the stuff of entertainment

:58:09.:58:12.

journalists, we love it. Sum it up in a line. Tell us why they have

:58:13.:58:19.

been feuding. Taylor Swift, Katie Perry took a couple of Taylor Swift

:58:20.:58:24.

dancers. Took them? From a tour. They were on tour and Katie Perry

:58:25.:58:30.

took them in the middle of Taylor Swift's tourment it is probably what

:58:31.:58:34.

teenage girls fight about and since then they have not spoken o an

:58:35.:58:40.

Friday Katie Perry released her new album and Taylor Swift had taken all

:58:41.:58:46.

of her music off Spotify and decided Taylor Swift that Friday was the

:58:47.:58:52.

best day to put her music on Spotify thereby taking the wind out of Katie

:58:53.:58:57.

Perry's sails and Katie Perry tried to Bury the hatchet with Taylor

:58:58.:59:03.

Swift and said we are both strong women in the music industry and she

:59:04.:59:08.

is a great songwriter, it feels clinical and cold. A bit like

:59:09.:59:14.

promoting your new album? Well, exactly. She spent four days talking

:59:15.:59:19.

about something that's getting her headlines. It is nice to her address

:59:20.:59:23.

it. Because in the past she almost stuck her head in the sand with it

:59:24.:59:27.

and finally she hit it head-on. Thank you very much, Steve. Steve,

:59:28.:59:29.

Holden. We have got sunshine. If you're

:59:30.:59:43.

living in the eastern and southern areas, you have got blue skies. That

:59:44.:59:50.

was the scene in Norfolk. For many of us, it is grey skies and a dreary

:59:51.:59:57.

start to the day in Shropshire. More rain towards Northern Ireland and

:59:58.:00:00.

into Scotland. The best of the sunshine is across eastern and

:00:01.:00:04.

southern parts of England and that's where temperatures will get up to 22

:00:05.:00:08.

or 23 Celsius, but even further north, 17 Celsius to 19 Celsius. A

:00:09.:00:11.

bit more rain will come into Northern Ireland and Scotland

:00:12.:00:14.

overnight, but elsewhere, it will be dry. There could be one or two

:00:15.:00:17.

patches of fog developing in the far southment but for Wednesday, it's

:00:18.:00:21.

going to get warmer for most of us. There will be some rain across

:00:22.:00:23.

Northern Ireland into Scotland as well. But for most of us, hazy

:00:24.:00:28.

sunshine, maximum temperatures 27 Celsius perhaps in the South East.

:00:29.:00:32.

Even in the far north and west despite the cloudier skies and rain,

:00:33.:00:36.

still here temperatures rather pleasant at 17 or 18 Celsius.

:00:37.:00:43.

it's ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:44.:00:46.

Our top story - will they reach a deal?

:00:47.:00:48.

Theresa May meets the Northern Irish DUP leader today, as they try

:00:49.:00:51.

and broker a deal to help the Prime Minister

:00:52.:00:53.

We will take a look at their anti-abortion stance and speak to

:00:54.:01:02.

those affected by the current legislation.

:01:03.:01:04.

And with Parliament reconvening this afternoon,

:01:05.:01:06.

we've been hearing from members of the public

:01:07.:01:08.

There is not enough leadership from politicians. I have to feel

:01:09.:01:23.

confident you are representing me. You have got to watch what you say,

:01:24.:01:29.

because we pay your wages. This is the code of conduct that you have

:01:30.:01:35.

drawn up, integrity, honesty, empathy, clarity and directness,

:01:36.:01:43.

humility passion! We will be asking all MPs to sign up to it.

:01:44.:01:47.

Also on the programme, almost a year since Labour MP

:01:48.:01:50.

Jo Cox was murdered her family speak about

:01:51.:01:52.

the hole that she's left, and the community reaction

:01:53.:01:54.

That was the classic line, I never met your sister, but I had to do

:01:55.:02:04.

something. My mum and dad, they have met people, they just end up crying,

:02:05.:02:08.

grown men absolutely devastated, and you end up comforting them. Maybe

:02:09.:02:13.

that has attracted from my personal grief, which will come eventually.

:02:14.:02:18.

That is Jo's sister Kim, we will talk to her and Jo's husband before

:02:19.:02:22.

11. Here's Joanna in the BBC newsroom

:02:23.:02:27.

with a summary of today's news. Theresa May will meet with the DUP

:02:28.:02:30.

leader, Arlene Foster, today to thrash out a deal that

:02:31.:02:32.

would see the party prop up With Brexit talks due to begin

:02:33.:02:35.

in less than a week, the EU's chief negotiator,

:02:36.:02:42.

Michel Barnier, has said Britain must not

:02:43.:02:43.

waste time. He's also urged the Government

:02:44.:02:46.

to appoint a negotiating team that is stable,

:02:47.:02:48.

accountable and with a mandate. The new Environment Secretary,

:02:49.:02:52.

Michael Gove, said he wasn't worried

:02:53.:02:54.

about the timetable. We have to make sure we have the

:02:55.:03:07.

right team in place, a Queen's Speech that outlines our sense of

:03:08.:03:11.

direction, and whether a day here there, that doesn't matter to me.

:03:12.:03:16.

What matters is making sure we have the right approach, and the Prime

:03:17.:03:19.

Minister has outlined the right approach. We need to make sure that

:03:20.:03:22.

we arrive at these talks in very good order, and one of the ways we

:03:23.:03:26.

can do so is by having the maximum amount of support for the strategy

:03:27.:03:30.

Theresa May has outlined, which is the right approach.

:03:31.:03:34.

Inflation unexpectedly jumped to its highest level

:03:35.:03:36.

Consumer prices increased by 2.9% compared with a year earlier.

:03:37.:03:40.

It's the biggest increase since June 2013,

:03:41.:03:41.

according to the Office for National Statistics.

:03:42.:03:46.

It said one of the main reasons for the rise was the cost of foreign

:03:47.:03:51.

package holidays for British tourists.

:03:52.:03:54.

In Germany, a policewoman has been seriously wounded

:03:55.:03:57.

after shots were fired at a railway station near Munich.

:03:58.:03:59.

It's understood she was injured when a man grabbed her gun.

:04:00.:04:02.

Police say the man has now been arrested,

:04:03.:04:05.

and that it was not a terrorist incident.

:04:06.:04:09.

has told this programme that it is quitting

:04:10.:04:12.

the Government's Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse.

:04:13.:04:16.

The WhiteFlowers Campaign has said it blames Theresa May,

:04:17.:04:18.

who set up the inquiry when she was Home Secretary,

:04:19.:04:21.

The group, which represents more than a hundred survivors,

:04:22.:04:25.

said it had lost faith in the inquiry

:04:26.:04:27.

and accused it of not being truly independent.

:04:28.:04:37.

brother and sister have been arrested after a man in his 40s was

:04:38.:04:45.

shot dead at a property in Slough. They are being held on suspicion of

:04:46.:04:49.

murder. They are said to have lived in a caravan in woodland near Slough

:04:50.:04:55.

for more than 50 years. The parents of the murdered MP

:04:56.:04:58.

Jo Cox have told this programme that they "will always be broken"

:04:59.:05:01.

after their daughter's death. Friday will mark a year

:05:02.:05:03.

since the Labour MP was killed outside her constituency surgery

:05:04.:05:06.

in West Yorkshire. This weekend, her family

:05:07.:05:07.

is encouraging people to join with friends and neighbours

:05:08.:05:10.

for the Great Get Together, a series of community events

:05:11.:05:12.

being held in Jo's memory. And we'll be talking to Jo's

:05:13.:05:14.

husband Brendan and sister Kim This tweet from Catherine,

:05:15.:05:25.

incredibly moving film with the family of Jo Cox. Chuck tweets you

:05:26.:05:31.

can see where Jo Cox got her decency, humanity and integrity

:05:32.:05:37.

from, what an amazing family. This e-mail from Bill, how brave of the

:05:38.:05:40.

family to speak, it has brought me to tears, and my beloved wife passed

:05:41.:05:46.

away 14 years ago, you never forget. And this tweet from Toby, a truly

:05:47.:05:52.

moving feature on Jo Cox, I think it should permanently be posted on

:05:53.:05:55.

iPlayer. She gave her life to our democracy.

:05:56.:05:57.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning, use #Victorialive.

:05:58.:06:00.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:06:01.:06:04.

Right, let's bring you the latest sport with Katherine.

:06:05.:06:11.

The British and Irish Lions are playing their fourth match

:06:12.:06:16.

They're playing the Highlanders in Dunedin,

:06:17.:06:19.

and it's been an entertaining game.

:06:20.:06:20.

Highlanders scored first Waisake Noholo crashing over,

:06:21.:06:22.

injuring Courtney Lawes in the process.

:06:23.:06:23.

But just a few minutes later, the Lions answered

:06:24.:06:25.

with a try of their own, Jonathan Joseph spotting

:06:26.:06:27.

Tommy Seymour ran it all the way in after this interception.

:06:28.:06:32.

Sam Warburton has scored his first of the tour, and there has been

:06:33.:06:39.

another for Highlanders, tries galore in Dunedin, it is 20-22,

:06:40.:06:43.

Lions just leading, 20 minutes left to go there.

:06:44.:06:47.

A senior coach working with the country's Olympic bobsleigh squad

:06:48.:06:49.

has been accused of racism amid multiple complaints over

:06:50.:06:52.

Confidential documents obtained by the BBC show

:06:53.:06:55.

athletes said their concerns were "of the highest order,

:06:56.:06:57.

mentioning bullying, racism, sexism and discrimination."

:06:58.:07:00.

they were told no disciplinary action would be taken.

:07:01.:07:07.

England's footballers play France in a friendly in Paris tonight.

:07:08.:07:10.

with Tom Heaton and Jack Butland sharing goal-keeping duties.

:07:11.:07:18.

French fans have been asked to join in with God Save The Queen

:07:19.:07:21.

as a mark of respect following the terror attacks.

:07:22.:07:23.

Prime Minister Theresa May and President Emmanuel Macron

:07:24.:07:25.

I was at the match at Wembley and, you know, a very special occasion,

:07:26.:07:40.

and we are very grateful to the French for offering this tribute to

:07:41.:07:45.

England as a country, so it is nice that the history between us doesn't

:07:46.:07:47.

come between us at those moments. And England's World Cup winners,

:07:48.:07:49.

the under-20s team, arrived back in Britain

:07:50.:07:51.

late last night. They flew into Birmingham

:07:52.:07:53.

from South Korea, where they lifted their country's first trophy

:07:54.:07:56.

at a world tournament since 1966. England, as a nation of footballers,

:07:57.:08:09.

young players, is changing, so I think, like you say, it is a big

:08:10.:08:12.

thing to have won the tournament, and it shows we are pushing on and

:08:13.:08:18.

chasing to get to the top. For me personally, to save a penalty in a

:08:19.:08:21.

World Cup final, it is what you dream about as a kid. But for the

:08:22.:08:26.

team, and for what we have achieved, for the country, it is amazing. I

:08:27.:08:32.

hope that these players, they take this experience and really go on and

:08:33.:08:37.

benefit themselves and benefit our senior team in years to come, and

:08:38.:08:41.

fingers crossed that will be the case.

:08:42.:08:43.

Britain's six-time Paralympic champion David Weir

:08:44.:08:45.

will compete in a track event for the final time

:08:46.:08:47.

in next month's Anniversary Games in London.

:08:48.:08:49.

He won the London Marathon for the seventh time in April.

:08:50.:08:52.

In January, Weir, who won four gold medals at London 2012

:08:53.:08:55.

said he would never compete for Britain again

:08:56.:08:58.

And you will be able to hear our interview with David Weir on the BBC

:08:59.:09:11.

News Channel throughout the day, but that is all the sport for now. Back

:09:12.:09:12.

to you, Victoria. Good morning! "I got us into this mess

:09:13.:09:15.

and I'll get us out of it." Theresa May's words to her own

:09:16.:09:18.

MPs yesterday, reportedly showing some of the humility

:09:19.:09:20.

they'd wanted from her. Journalists weren't invited

:09:21.:09:22.

to the meeting. But several MPs have reported

:09:23.:09:24.

the following as taking place. The Prime Minister told her Tory MPs

:09:25.:09:30.

she'll remain leader She pledged that the party

:09:31.:09:33.

would help colleagues who lost their seats, some of whom

:09:34.:09:40.

are in financial difficulties, and when talking about concerns

:09:41.:09:44.

that government policy could be affected

:09:45.:09:46.

by the DUP's views on gay rights, she reportedly said,

:09:47.:09:49.

"LGB...what's the rest of it?" lesbian, gay, bisexual

:09:50.:09:54.

and transgender. the PM needs to to a deal

:09:55.:09:59.

with to stay on in government. Let's talk now to two MPs

:10:00.:10:07.

who were at the meeting, Oliver Letwin, who's the

:10:08.:10:10.

Conservative MP for West Dorset, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, the

:10:11.:10:13.

Conservative MP for the Cotswolds, and an executive member

:10:14.:10:15.

of the 1922 Committee, which is the group of Conservative

:10:16.:10:17.

MPs Theresa May may with yesterday, and in a moment, we'll speak

:10:18.:10:20.

to Lord Andrew Turnbull, who was a top civil servant under

:10:21.:10:24.

three different Prime Ministers Welcome, all of you, thank you very

:10:25.:10:38.

much for talking to us. Oliver Letwin, how many times did Theresa

:10:39.:10:41.

May apologise to you for throwing away the Conservative majority in

:10:42.:10:49.

that election? Not many! How many? Once, twice? I genuinely have no

:10:50.:10:53.

idea! The meeting was not about that. The meeting was about a pretty

:10:54.:10:58.

unanimous view across the whole room of support for what she was doing,

:10:59.:11:04.

and for the need to carry on, and I thought what was really remarkable

:11:05.:11:08.

was the degree of unanimity. How many times did she apologise? I

:11:09.:11:14.

don't think... I can't honestly remember, but as Oliver said, that

:11:15.:11:19.

is not really the issue. But did she apologise? I am just interested. She

:11:20.:11:24.

apologise to colleagues who lost their seats, she was humble about

:11:25.:11:28.

that. But as Oliver says, there was a remarkable degree of unanimity

:11:29.:11:33.

around the room, as do supporting her. Sure. Issue going to apologise

:11:34.:11:39.

to voters for calling an election that she did not need to that has

:11:40.:11:45.

cost ?130 million? Well, she felt that she needed her own mandate to

:11:46.:11:49.

negotiate these Brexit talks. That was a view at the time. With

:11:50.:11:54.

hindsight, she might have taken a different view. But we are where we

:11:55.:11:58.

are, and we have to go on governing the country with the Parliamentary

:11:59.:12:03.

arithmetic that we have. Oliver Letwin, your Conservative colleague

:12:04.:12:05.

Heidi Elin said she saw a very humble woman in Mrs May. Do you

:12:06.:12:09.

think the rest of the country is going to see her humble side at some

:12:10.:12:14.

point? I would not describe her as humble, as you said, she apologised,

:12:15.:12:23.

she let us in on the feelings that she had about what had happened, but

:12:24.:12:29.

I don't think it is a question of humble or otherwise. I think it is a

:12:30.:12:34.

question of her ability at a time when our country faces significant

:12:35.:12:39.

challenges to manage the economy soundly and come of all of this in a

:12:40.:12:43.

good condition. That is what matters to our fellow citizens, not the

:12:44.:12:48.

political bits and bobs, what happens to the country. I think what

:12:49.:12:52.

cheap is weighed and all of us of is that she is capable of doing that,

:12:53.:12:56.

and that is where we need to be. -- I think what she persuaded all of us

:12:57.:13:04.

of. So she has two years to see through the negotiations, then she

:13:05.:13:08.

hands over to whoever head of the next general election? It depends on

:13:09.:13:11.

a number of factors, how the relationship with the DUP works out,

:13:12.:13:15.

and I think it depends on the Conservative Party itself. If the

:13:16.:13:18.

Conservative Party itself starts going to war with one another, then

:13:19.:13:22.

the period will be shorter rather than longer. But what you can say is

:13:23.:13:25.

that she's not going to fight the next general election as leader of

:13:26.:13:30.

the Conservative Party? Well, we don't know that yet. I think it is

:13:31.:13:35.

far too soon to say that. You think she could? With that majority? She

:13:36.:13:41.

could, it depends how the thing works out. If the Brexit negotiation

:13:42.:13:45.

went incredibly well and she was crowned as having done an incredibly

:13:46.:13:49.

good deal, I think you might find that the holes and tuition would

:13:50.:13:55.

change. I entirely agree about that, Victoria, you will recognise the

:13:56.:14:00.

slogan that a week is a long time in politics. Two years, 104 weeks, is a

:14:01.:14:06.

very long time in politics, and none of us have the slightest idea what

:14:07.:14:09.

will happen. The important thing is to focus on those years, getting to

:14:10.:14:13.

a successful conclusion on Brexit, and then the whole nation will be in

:14:14.:14:18.

a different position. Do you agree with your colleague that she could

:14:19.:14:22.

be in charge for less than two years, depending on what happens?

:14:23.:14:26.

Prime Ministers are in charge on the basis of delivering for the country,

:14:27.:14:30.

I am confident she will deliver, and I'm confident she will be in charge

:14:31.:14:34.

throughout that period, and I think it is altogether likely she will

:14:35.:14:38.

fight the next election as well. But we take that step-by-step, we have

:14:39.:14:43.

to lock in the DUP, deliver on Brexit and the economy, regain the

:14:44.:14:48.

confidence of electors, many of whom voted for us, many of whom did not,

:14:49.:14:54.

and that is what politics is about. Lord Turnbull, formerly a top civil

:14:55.:14:58.

servant and three Prime Ministers, you have called for Theresa May to

:14:59.:15:04.

stand aside - that would not help Britain's Brexit negotiations. Well,

:15:05.:15:08.

I don't think this coalition can last five years. You haven't even

:15:09.:15:14.

given it a day! I did not say how soon, there is a difference between

:15:15.:15:17.

when she goes and makes it clear that she is going to go, the Ed

:15:18.:15:22.

Miliband time table - I think we will find that this coalition needs

:15:23.:15:28.

to be settled in, get past the Queen's Speech to demonstrate that

:15:29.:15:32.

it can win votes, and then people will look at what it can achieve.

:15:33.:15:39.

Its problem is that it will be, apart from the Brexit negotiators, a

:15:40.:15:42.

near do nothing parliament. It has no strength to take any of the

:15:43.:15:47.

measures that it wants to take, and that will be incredibly frustrating.

:15:48.:15:50.

I don't think she can be the person who fights the next election. The

:15:51.:15:57.

precedents, we have had three elections which were inconclusive,

:15:58.:16:04.

1951, 1964 and 1974, and then another election shortly thereafter.

:16:05.:16:07.

In each case, the election thereafter was won by the side that

:16:08.:16:10.

had the momentum. Although Labour didn't get more

:16:11.:16:18.

seats they definitely had the momentum. So that's the danger. Do

:16:19.:16:24.

the Conservatives want to fight that election with someone who was a very

:16:25.:16:29.

poor cam pamer and handled it so badly or do they want someone new?

:16:30.:16:34.

If they want someone new they have got to get that person in, in time

:16:35.:16:39.

for them to settle in, establish some record and when you start

:16:40.:16:46.

working you find this change needs to be made before two years. There

:16:47.:16:53.

is another precedent here which is in 2010 when as you know I was arbli

:16:54.:16:59.

involved in negotiating an agreement with the Liberal Democrats, but lots

:17:00.:17:03.

of other people told me and people reported in the press that this

:17:04.:17:06.

couldn't possibly last. It lasted the whole course of the Parliament.

:17:07.:17:09.

That Government achieved a great deal and David Cameron went on to

:17:10.:17:13.

win a general election with an outright majority thereafter. So

:17:14.:17:16.

there are conflicting precedents here and actually, I don't think

:17:17.:17:21.

that the Conservative Party or those who are commenting on these matters

:17:22.:17:25.

should be focussing on the question of election victory or otherwise in

:17:26.:17:32.

2022. This nation faces an obsolutely critical juncture in its

:17:33.:17:35.

whole history and who we should be focussing on is getting through that

:17:36.:17:38.

and doing the next two years successfully for all of us and that,

:17:39.:17:43.

I think, that came out of the meeting of the 1922 the Conservative

:17:44.:17:47.

Party in Parliament, wherever else, is focussed on delivering a good

:17:48.:17:51.

Brexit outcome and a sound economy as the background to that in the

:17:52.:17:54.

nation's interests and that's what we should be doing. What you're

:17:55.:18:00.

papering over Oliver is the massive division in view within the

:18:01.:18:03.

Conservative Party. This is where the biggest fault line of politics

:18:04.:18:11.

is. Do they want a hard Brexit which prioritises control over the

:18:12.:18:16.

movement of people or do they want a Brexit which prioritises trade?

:18:17.:18:19.

Until you've settled that, I don't see how you can get to a successful

:18:20.:18:26.

budget negotiation. Whilst you're here briefly, voters have been

:18:27.:18:29.

drawing up on our programme today a code of conduct for MPs as MPs go

:18:30.:18:32.

back to Westminster after the election. The voters have suggested

:18:33.:18:37.

these five points on how they'd like MPs to behave. Number one,

:18:38.:18:43.

integrity, number two, empathy, number three, clarity and directness

:18:44.:18:46.

and four humility, number five passion. Is there any you would

:18:47.:18:51.

disagree. You raised your eyebrows at passion, Jeffrey Clifton-Brown? A

:18:52.:18:55.

politician always has got to have passion and the two really important

:18:56.:19:01.

things is next week we start the complicated Brexit negotiations. The

:19:02.:19:04.

most important event of this country since the Second World War and the

:19:05.:19:07.

Conservative Party will unite around Theresa May because the alternative

:19:08.:19:12.

of Jeremy Corbyn is much worse to every Conservative member of

:19:13.:19:14.

Parliament and that's why they'll unite. Thank you all. Thank you very

:19:15.:19:18.

much. Thank you for coming on the programme.

:19:19.:19:32.

Joims Brokenshire says he's confident a deal between the

:19:33.:19:35.

Conservatives and the DUP will be reached today. He has been speaking

:19:36.:19:39.

to the BBC in the past half an hour. I'm sure that will be a matter of

:19:40.:19:45.

discussion for them and I'm sure we will have more details during the

:19:46.:19:48.

course of the day, but the thing to stress is that the work that I do as

:19:49.:19:51.

Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is separate. That we are

:19:52.:19:55.

very clear on the work that I was doing yesterday afternoon and

:19:56.:19:59.

evening around the devolution settlements and ensuring that we get

:20:00.:20:03.

devolved Government back and that is something that as a Government we

:20:04.:20:07.

hold fast to on ensuring that our duties to serve Northern Ireland

:20:08.:20:12.

well, to adhere to our responsibilities under the Belfast

:20:13.:20:15.

Agreement, absolutely is at the core of what we are as a Government, and

:20:16.:20:19.

will certainly guide our actions into the future.

:20:20.:20:22.

INAUDIBLE Well,ual' confident. I think the

:20:23.:20:26.

discussions thus far have been positive, but the leader of the DUP

:20:27.:20:29.

is seeing the Prime Minister later today for further discussions around

:20:30.:20:33.

the agreement. We want to see conclusions so that we can get on

:20:34.:20:37.

with acting in the best interests of our country and actually getting on

:20:38.:20:40.

with the job. James Brokenshire.

:20:41.:20:45.

The sister and husband of Jo Cox will be

:20:46.:20:52.

joining us to reflect on her life and legacy almost a year

:20:53.:20:54.

Theresa May has failed to protect survivors

:20:55.:21:06.

of historical child sex abuse, that's according to another group

:21:07.:21:08.

which this morning is exclusively announcing on this programme that

:21:09.:21:11.

it's quitting the Government's independent inquiry.

:21:12.:21:18.

The independent inquiry into child sexual abuse

:21:19.:21:23.

in England and Wales was set-up by Theresa May during her

:21:24.:21:25.

It aimed to investigate claims of sexual abuse

:21:26.:21:28.

against local authorities, religious organisations,

:21:29.:21:29.

the Armed Forces and public and private institutions

:21:30.:21:31.

and to "expose failures and learn the lessons" from the past.

:21:32.:21:36.

But it has been dogged by controversy

:21:37.:21:38.

with many key victims groups quitting saying they've lost faith

:21:39.:21:40.

in it and accusing the inquiry of not being truly independent.

:21:41.:21:44.

Now, another group which represents more than 100 survivors,

:21:45.:21:47.

has told this programme that they share the same concerns.

:21:48.:21:51.

Let's talk now to Phil Frampton from the Survivors of Organised

:21:52.:21:54.

and Institutional Abuse, part of the White Flowers Campaign.

:21:55.:21:58.

They have withdrawn from the inquiry. Thank you for talking to

:21:59.:22:05.

us. Good morning, Victoria. Tell us why you're withdrawing? For three

:22:06.:22:11.

years, White Flowers and thousands of survivors have fought for justice

:22:12.:22:18.

on this inquiry and we just don't believe anymore that it's aim is to

:22:19.:22:22.

deliver justice. It's aim is to be investigative, it looks more like a

:22:23.:22:27.

report writing exercise now, but when it was set-up, we stood by this

:22:28.:22:32.

inquiry for three years. We've been critical, but we pointed out at the

:22:33.:22:36.

beginning that it was riddled with conflicts of interest and when

:22:37.:22:39.

you've got conflicts of interest and you're looking at one of the darkest

:22:40.:22:44.

episodes in British history then, people with conflicts of interest

:22:45.:22:49.

will never shine the torch into the dark corners because they're too

:22:50.:22:51.

frightened that they will find themselves or their friends there

:22:52.:22:55.

and that's really what we found. First of all, the Home Office were

:22:56.:23:01.

put in charge. Prior to 1970, the Home Office had responsibility for

:23:02.:23:05.

all of London's children's homes plus the hundreds of children's

:23:06.:23:09.

homes, approved schools and so forth across the country and yet initially

:23:10.:23:15.

they were actually kept out of the abuse before 1970, was kept out. The

:23:16.:23:18.

Home Office is also responsible for the police. It's one of the failing

:23:19.:23:24.

institutions in relation to child abuse so far as many survivors are

:23:25.:23:27.

concerned yet they are at the heart of the inquiry. Their secondments

:23:28.:23:35.

are running the inquiry now. It beggars belief and at the same time,

:23:36.:23:40.

they have put as the Shirley Oaks survivors pointed out, they put an

:23:41.:23:47.

executive social worker in charge of the inquiry, they may have good

:23:48.:23:50.

interests, but also conflicts of interests there in the sense that

:23:51.:23:53.

they are the people who again, many of those social workers, who

:23:54.:23:57.

survivors believe failed them. So you simply don't trust it hence your

:23:58.:24:03.

withdrawal but then how do you find out, how do you get to the bottom of

:24:04.:24:09.

alleged historical abuse in all these institutions? This inquiry is

:24:10.:24:13.

not to get to the bottom of that alleged abuse. That's the issue. We

:24:14.:24:19.

don't feel it's, that its job. It's almost like a paper exercise now,

:24:20.:24:22.

studying reports. So what do you want then? Well, what we want is a

:24:23.:24:28.

truly investigative inquiry. What we needed was a truly investigative

:24:29.:24:32.

inquiry. So are you saying scrap this and start again? No, it can be,

:24:33.:24:37.

it's up to the inquiry to decide, but there are other ways of doing it

:24:38.:24:42.

rather than using this inquiry. This inquiry, many survivors still have

:24:43.:24:49.

some hope in and I, you know, I feel for them really, but it's a question

:24:50.:24:53.

of the inquiry could change itself overnight, if Theresa May wanted,

:24:54.:24:57.

but sadly, I think Theresa May's shown she is more interested in her

:24:58.:25:01.

own personal appearance than she is in how in substance, in real

:25:02.:25:06.

substance. Theresa May said this inquiry would have, that survivors

:25:07.:25:09.

would be at the heart of this inquiry and the truth is survivors

:25:10.:25:13.

are on the very margins of this inquiry. Our representatives went to

:25:14.:25:19.

a seminar, an official seminar of the inquiry and we're told to sit at

:25:20.:25:24.

the back and to keep quiet and handed post-it notes and told if we

:25:25.:25:27.

want to ask a question then we should write them on there and let

:25:28.:25:31.

Professor Jay answer if she has got time. How is that survivors being at

:25:32.:25:32.

the heart of an inquiry? We obviously asked the independent

:25:33.:25:36.

inquiry into child sexual abuse They said no, but in a statement

:25:37.:25:39.

told us, "Whilst we regret the decision by Survivors

:25:40.:25:45.

of Organised Institutional Abuse to withdraw from the inquiry,

:25:46.:25:47.

we acknowledge their decision and would like to reassure

:25:48.:25:49.

all victims and survivors that the important work

:25:50.:25:51.

of the inquiry including the accountability and reparations

:25:52.:25:56.

investigation that SOIA The inquiry would welcome them back

:25:57.:25:58.

should they decide they wish Can I just say a lot of survivors,

:25:59.:26:15.

thousands of survivors have put huge emotional capital into this inquiry

:26:16.:26:23.

over the last three years. The core participants may have to wait three

:26:24.:26:27.

or four years time. Not being able to move on unless they can get

:26:28.:26:30.

support from the inquiry, but the inquiry has said this they will not

:26:31.:26:37.

give that support until those cases go to, are considered and therefore,

:26:38.:26:42.

it could be four years more. Survivors are dropping out of the

:26:43.:26:47.

inquiry at the moment because they can't afford to leave their lives

:26:48.:26:51.

and their emotions on hold. That, for me, is callous and cruel. It's

:26:52.:26:56.

callous, cruel and incompetent if you're running a serious inquiry

:26:57.:27:01.

over such psychological issues. OK, thank you very much, Phil. Thank

:27:02.:27:05.

you, Phil Frampton from the survivors of organised and

:27:06.:27:06.

institutional abuse. The sister

:27:07.:27:10.

and husband of Jo Cox will be joining us to reflect on her life

:27:11.:27:15.

and legacy almost a year With the news, here's Joanna

:27:16.:27:23.

in the BBC Newsroom. Theresa May is meeting with the DUP

:27:24.:27:35.

leader, Arlene Foster, today to thrash out a deal that

:27:36.:27:37.

would see the party prop up With Brexit talks due to begin

:27:38.:27:40.

in less than a week, the EU's chief negotiator,

:27:41.:27:44.

Michel Barnier, has said Britain He's also urged the Government

:27:45.:27:46.

to appoint a negotiating team that is stable,

:27:47.:27:50.

accountable and with a mandate. Inflation unexpectedly jumped

:27:51.:27:52.

to its highest level Consumer prices increased by 2.9%

:27:53.:27:54.

compared with a year earlier, it is the biggest increase since

:27:55.:28:06.

June 2013,according to the Office It said one of the main reasons

:28:07.:28:08.

for the rise was the cost of foreign package holidays

:28:09.:28:16.

for British tourists. The European Court of Human Rights

:28:17.:28:24.

will rule on whether doctors treating Charlie Gard can turn off

:28:25.:28:28.

his life support. Last week the UK's Supreme Court agreed with specialist

:28:29.:28:31.

doctors that he should receive palliative care instead.

:28:32.:28:35.

A woman has been charged with murder, after a man was hit

:28:36.:28:37.

Emergency crews were called to Victoria Station on Sunday

:28:38.:28:41.

evening, but were unable to save him.

:28:42.:28:44.

Charrissa Loren Brown-Wellington, who is 31, will appear

:28:45.:28:48.

That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC

:28:49.:28:52.

Highlanders have snatched a win over the British and Irish Lions

:28:53.:29:03.

The Lions gave away a penalty with just six

:29:04.:29:07.

minutes left on the clock and that was enough to put

:29:08.:29:09.

the South Island side just one point ahead,

:29:10.:29:12.

a lead they held onto until the final whistle.

:29:13.:29:19.

A senior coach working with the country's Olympic bobsleigh

:29:20.:29:22.

squad has been accused of racism amid multiple complaints of a "toxic

:29:23.:29:25.

England's footballers play France in a friendly in Paris tonight.

:29:26.:29:31.

French fans are expected to join in with God Save The Queen

:29:32.:29:33.

as a mark of respect following the terror attacks.

:29:34.:29:36.

Prime Minister Theresa May and President Emmanuel

:29:37.:29:37.

Britain's six-time Paralympic champion David Weir will compete

:29:38.:29:45.

in a track event for the final time in next month's

:29:46.:29:48.

He won the London Marathon for the seventh time in April.

:29:49.:29:54.

That's all the sport. Back to you Victoria. Thank you very much.

:29:55.:30:01.

Friday marks the first anniversary of the death of Labour MP Jo Cox,

:30:02.:30:04.

who was killed in Birstall, outside her constituency surgery.

:30:05.:30:06.

Her senseless killing sent shockwaves

:30:07.:30:07.

around the world but united the country in grief.

:30:08.:30:10.

A year on, and her family are determined to continue her legacy.

:30:11.:30:14.

This weekend, on the first anniversary of her death,

:30:15.:30:16.

they're encouraging people to join together with neighbours,

:30:17.:30:19.

friends and their local community at events in her memory.

:30:20.:30:24.

In a moment, we'll speak to Jo's husband Brendan

:30:25.:30:26.

and her sister, Kim Leadbeater, but first let's hear Jo's parents

:30:27.:30:29.

remembering the moment they learnt she'd died.

:30:30.:30:44.

We'd just sat down about five minutes,

:30:45.:30:45.

And he just said, Jo's been shot, I think.

:30:46.:30:51.

And we jumped in the car, I remember I was jumping in the car,

:30:52.:30:59.

I don't know how we managed to get there.

:31:00.:31:06.

People are shot and recover, et cetera, et cetera.

:31:07.:31:23.

So we didn't know at that time. I think we knew.

:31:24.:31:27.

I think I did. I didn't know.

:31:28.:31:30.

But you see these things on the television where the doctor,

:31:31.:31:34.

in this case it was a police inspector,

:31:35.:31:36.

comes into the room and he has to tell you.

:31:37.:31:38.

In fact, he doesn't have to tell you.

:31:39.:31:41.

You can see by his expression.

:31:42.:31:44.

And he said, "I'm sorry to say she didn't make it."

:31:45.:31:55.

because there's a piece missing.

:31:56.:31:59.

The low times for us are when we turn the television

:32:00.:32:02.

on and see terrorist acts - Westminster Bridge, Manchester -

:32:03.:32:04.

because that's when it brings everything back.

:32:05.:32:07.

For me, the ambulances, the sirens,

:32:08.:32:08.

But we also think about the people who have lost loved ones,

:32:09.:32:20.

and we know what they are actually just going through.

:32:21.:32:25.

And unfortunately they don't, as yet.

:32:26.:32:35.

Going forward, build on the children, the grandchildren.

:32:36.:32:38.

Because you're right, it won't go away.

:32:39.:32:46.

# Looking back, I could have played differently... #

:32:47.:33:15.

More than one person came up to me after the funeral,

:33:16.:33:19.

and after Kim talked in Birstall marketplace,

:33:20.:33:22.

and said, "You've got not one but two marvellous daughters."

:33:23.:33:26.

on the television et cetera, making speeches."

:33:27.:33:35.

because I can't separate the two and never would.

:33:36.:33:54.

Talking to us now are Kim Ledbeater and Brendan Cox, Jo's husband.

:33:55.:34:00.

Kim, Jo's sister. Hello. Hi. How are you? I found it very hard to watch

:34:01.:34:13.

that film. Kim, how are you? OK, I think we are tired, extremely busy,

:34:14.:34:16.

but we at to demand that we will get through the next couple of weeks, as

:34:17.:34:22.

Jo would want us two. Not to say it will not be very difficult at times,

:34:23.:34:27.

but we will get there. You talk in the book, Brendan, you talk about

:34:28.:34:34.

the Jo that you knew. I want you both to tell our audience what she

:34:35.:34:39.

was like, because they will not know that much about. Yeah, you can see

:34:40.:34:46.

it in some of that footage, huge energy and enthusiasm, zest for

:34:47.:34:49.

life. She threw herself everything from campaigning to being a mum, to

:34:50.:34:57.

being part of our community, and she just, yeah, as well as that energy,

:34:58.:35:02.

she had an empathy, I know it is on the board! But I talked about it

:35:03.:35:06.

before, and just that sends of ability to feel how people are

:35:07.:35:11.

feeling and empathise with people, whether you were an older person who

:35:12.:35:16.

hadn't seen anybody for a week, who lived in her constituency, or a

:35:17.:35:20.

family from Syria fleeing the conflict there, that supreme ability

:35:21.:35:25.

to empathise and that energy which, for me, which summarises her. Jo was

:35:26.:35:30.

an extremely positive person, she had values that, you know, we can

:35:31.:35:38.

probably all learn from, but if you see my parents speaking, we are glad

:35:39.:35:41.

to have full people. We are not going to be beaten, we always trying

:35:42.:35:45.

to find the positive and good in things. Jo saw the good in

:35:46.:35:49.

everything and everyone, and you will struggle to find anyone who did

:35:50.:35:54.

not like it. You might disagree and debate, fine, but I don't think I've

:35:55.:35:57.

ever met anybody who didn't like. And she was also very annoying! She

:35:58.:36:05.

was not perfect! Everyone is a bit annoying at some point. She was late

:36:06.:36:10.

for everything, forget everybody's birthdays! Unbelievably forgetful.

:36:11.:36:17.

When Jo and I were getting engaged, one of the stories I tell in the

:36:18.:36:22.

book, we went on a cycling holiday, and she forgot her bike. A cycling

:36:23.:36:27.

holiday, how do you forget your bike?! So incredibly annoying, but

:36:28.:36:32.

looking back now, those things are, you know, what made her her. She

:36:33.:36:37.

wasn't a saint, she wasn't perfect, but she was somebody, as we have

:36:38.:36:41.

said, that had this positivity, empathy, a zest for life. Even when

:36:42.:36:47.

she was forgetting her bike, that shone through. Let me read you a

:36:48.:36:52.

couple of messages, so many of these, these are representative of

:36:53.:36:56.

all of them. Kim says, my heartfelt love to Brendan, Kim and all Jo's

:36:57.:37:02.

family, such a heartbreaking loss, what a beautiful legacy Jo left, her

:37:03.:37:06.

passing is not in vain, I have ordered your book, big love to you

:37:07.:37:11.

all. Sophia says, Jo Cox was an inspiration in life and in death,

:37:12.:37:15.

thank you, Jo, despite the dark, horrid early days, your mission

:37:16.:37:23.

lives on, thank you for giving us hope. I don't know if you take

:37:24.:37:27.

comfort in kind words from strangers, do you? Absolutely, it is

:37:28.:37:30.

one of the things that has got us through. For me and mum and dad, the

:37:31.:37:36.

support that has been shown, not just from people we know, but total

:37:37.:37:40.

strangers across the country and across the world, because even if

:37:41.:37:45.

you didn't know Jo, you could see what she stood for, so you might not

:37:46.:37:49.

miss on a personal level in the way we do, but you will see what a loss

:37:50.:37:56.

it is, someone who had those values, so that support has been, yeah,

:37:57.:38:02.

phenomenal. And for often when you go through a loss, you feel very

:38:03.:38:10.

isolated, because everyone else's lives take on as normal. And with

:38:11.:38:16.

this, they could see that other people were feeling the pain that

:38:17.:38:19.

they were feeling, not the same size or scale intensity, but I remember,

:38:20.:38:29.

on the way to the funeral, in the car, Cuillin turned to me, thousands

:38:30.:38:35.

of people and, throwing flowers, and Cuillin said I know that people love

:38:36.:38:38.

money, but I didn't know this many people did. -- loved Mummy. So that

:38:39.:38:46.

compassion, and it is more important, because you can imagine,

:38:47.:38:51.

if this happens at such a formative stage of your life, your view of

:38:52.:38:56.

life and our country could end up being very dark, but they don't have

:38:57.:39:00.

that at all, because of that compassion and kindness, they are

:39:01.:39:04.

only inform six, but they have a very optimistic and enthusiastic

:39:05.:39:07.

view of life. That is testament to you, isn't it? Brendan has been

:39:08.:39:16.

amazing, his priority has been the children since then, the way that

:39:17.:39:20.

they are coping, not just coping, thriving, that is down to how he has

:39:21.:39:26.

done his job. Not just me, Jo and I often talked about how the first

:39:27.:39:29.

three years were critical for kids in terms of the way their brains

:39:30.:39:32.

develop, the way they get their sense of cells, so they have a hell

:39:33.:39:36.

of a lot of Jo in them, and the thing that has got me through is the

:39:37.:39:41.

family, incredibly close family, both on Jo's side and the mine, and

:39:42.:39:47.

then the community. And that is, for us, such a big part of Jo's

:39:48.:39:53.

politics, she wasn't an ideological politician who got her politics from

:39:54.:39:57.

textbooks. She got her politics particularly from her home life in

:39:58.:40:01.

Batley, from her grandad, who was a postman in Batley, and the sense

:40:02.:40:05.

that she got from him of how important it was to know your

:40:06.:40:09.

neighbours, and how much she valued that. So that became a big part of

:40:10.:40:15.

her life and her politics, but now, this morning, I had to get up early

:40:16.:40:19.

to do an interview, and very kindly the neighbours through the tips...

:40:20.:40:27.

They put them on the boat! They are as happy as Larry, and that is

:40:28.:40:33.

hugely valuable. You both mentioned community, but there is the global

:40:34.:40:37.

community, you have had contact from people all over the world, including

:40:38.:40:44.

President Obama. Yeah! And Gordon Brown, who she used to work for,

:40:45.:40:48.

saying, is it all right if President Obama gives you a call? I was

:40:49.:40:55.

speaking to Gordon, and he said, yeah, is it OK if he gets in touch,

:40:56.:40:58.

and I thought he might send a card or something, which I thought was

:40:59.:41:03.

incredible. And my phone rang and it was the weirdest, like out of a bad

:41:04.:41:09.

American film, when they say, can we transfer you to Air Force One?

:41:10.:41:13.

Really? I thought it was maybe taking the make. But it would have

:41:14.:41:18.

been a strange time to do it. He invited us to go over and see him,

:41:19.:41:23.

which was an incredible experience, and amazing for the kids, even

:41:24.:41:26.

though they were then three and five. They got a hell of a lot from

:41:27.:41:35.

it, and Cuillin is obsessed with history, I'd tell you about the

:41:36.:41:38.

Second World War, which I don't know and have about! I had been telling

:41:39.:41:42.

him about the history of America, what little I know about it, and the

:41:43.:41:46.

first thing he said when he got into the room was, I thought the British

:41:47.:41:50.

burned the White House down, the most embarrassing thing you could

:41:51.:41:53.

possibly say! The president said it was much better now that they had

:41:54.:42:00.

rebuilt it. So he was thankful! Tim, you can't bring Jo back, what can

:42:01.:42:05.

you do? I think, for me, accepting that we cannot change what has

:42:06.:42:11.

happened. Whilst it is buried, that is the only way to move forward so

:42:12.:42:16.

three things I want to do. That whilst it is very difficult. I want

:42:17.:42:20.

to scoop the kids up in love, make sure they know how amazing the mum

:42:21.:42:25.

was, how much she loved them, that is the top priority. Second thing

:42:26.:42:29.

is, remember how lucky we were to have Jo, and I was so lucky, we were

:42:30.:42:39.

friends first and foremost, and we will always have those memories. The

:42:40.:42:42.

third thing is to create some kind of legacy, which Brendan is doing

:42:43.:42:49.

amazingly, and I would like to be part of that. I don't now how that

:42:50.:42:54.

would work in the future, but what resonates with me is that Jo should

:42:55.:42:59.

have been alive for at least another 40 years, and the work she would

:43:00.:43:03.

have done in that 40 years, what you would have achieved to do things,

:43:04.:43:10.

and I feel a bit of a moral duty to do something positive and help

:43:11.:43:15.

people, like Jo would have done. Thank you both very much, thank you

:43:16.:43:18.

for talking to us. The book is out today, it is called Jo Cox: More In

:43:19.:43:26.

Common. All the profits are going to the foundation which is taking

:43:27.:43:30.

forward her work. This weekend is the Great Get Together, which we

:43:31.:43:33.

have been putting together for what feels like a long time now excited

:43:34.:43:37.

is a simple idea, asking people to get together with their neighbours,

:43:38.:43:41.

share food, celebrate all the things we have in common. Jo talked about

:43:42.:43:45.

that a lot, the killing was designed to divide us, and we think the best

:43:46.:43:49.

possible response is a weekend to bring the country back together

:43:50.:43:53.

again, which we do need. And you have got your address at the ready!

:43:54.:43:57.

Get together and have a good weekend. Thank you both, thank you.

:43:58.:44:01.

A court ruling is due this month in Northern Ireland

:44:02.:44:03.

over the strict abortion laws there.

:44:04.:44:05.

Campaigners say the result has been made all the more significant

:44:06.:44:07.

Unlike the rest of the UK, abortion is illegal

:44:08.:44:11.

in almost all circumstances in Northern Ireland.

:44:12.:44:14.

Campaigners hope the ruling will be a step towards changing the law

:44:15.:44:17.

in cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality.

:44:18.:44:24.

Hi. I'm Sarah. Nice to meet you. Come on in. Thank you. This is my

:44:25.:44:50.

mum, Jane. Hi Jane. Nice to meet you. It was just a few weeks after

:44:51.:44:58.

Sarah Yeates' wedding that she found out she was pregnant. It was all

:44:59.:45:02.

planned and she was delighted. Everyone talked about the 3D scan

:45:03.:45:07.

and we wanted to see the baby in 3D. It was private. It wasn't at our

:45:08.:45:12.

hospital. They put the baby on the scroon. Feet, legs, oh you're having

:45:13.:45:20.

a wee girl the when she got to the baby's head, there was nothing from

:45:21.:45:24.

above the baby's eyes basically. There was no skull or brain

:45:25.:45:30.

formation. Sarah's baby had a condition which occurs in six in

:45:31.:45:33.

every 10,000 births. There is no treatment. And babies with it die

:45:34.:45:38.

before they're born or shortly after birth. This is your scan that you

:45:39.:45:43.

got? Yes, the skull wasn't formed. There was nothing above that. It

:45:44.:45:46.

should be round and it's not. So the baby wasn't going to be able to

:45:47.:45:52.

survive as soon as the baby was cut from me, when the umbilical cord was

:45:53.:45:56.

cut that's when the baby would have passed away. When I realised what,

:45:57.:46:05.

the baby wasn't going to survive and how bad the condition was, I thought

:46:06.:46:10.

that I couldn't continue on for nine months and people asking me when you

:46:11.:46:14.

were due, was your nursery set-up? Did you know what you were having? I

:46:15.:46:19.

just did not have the baby at the end of it, I just felt like I

:46:20.:46:26.

couldn't go through with that. We said we wanted a medical termination

:46:27.:46:30.

and that's what it is. And they said sorry, we can't help you and we were

:46:31.:46:34.

absolutely shocked. We were like, what do you mean you can't help?

:46:35.:46:38.

They said, sorry, but with the law here, we can't help you. You would

:46:39.:46:45.

have to go across the water. Unlike the rest of the UK, abortion is

:46:46.:46:50.

illegal here in Northern Ireland in almost all circumstances. That meant

:46:51.:46:55.

that at 21 weeks pregnant Sarah had to travel to London to have her

:46:56.:46:58.

abortion. It is that experience that means she is involved in this court

:46:59.:47:03.

case. Halfs the experience like? Making that journey, going all that

:47:04.:47:07.

way? Awful. I should have been at home with my family round me, my

:47:08.:47:13.

friends supporting me. Sarah started her fight in court with the judicial

:47:14.:47:19.

review two years ago. In 2015, the Northern Ireland Human Rights

:47:20.:47:22.

Commission brought the case to extend the grounds for abortion. The

:47:23.:47:26.

judge in the case ruled that women, who were victims of rape or incest,

:47:27.:47:34.

and in cases of foetal abnormality should be allowed abortions, but the

:47:35.:47:40.

ruling was appealed and campaigners are awaiting for a decision from the

:47:41.:47:45.

Appeal Court. Sarah is being backed by Amnesty International. Well nrm's

:47:46.:47:51.

laws date back to 1861 and unlike in the rest of the UK the 1967 Act

:47:52.:47:56.

doesn't apply in Northern Ireland. So it means that with the exception

:47:57.:48:01.

of where a woman's life and her long-term physical and mental health

:48:02.:48:05.

are at risk, abortion is illegal in every other circumstance. So, our

:48:06.:48:10.

laws force women who have been ramd, they force girls who are victims of

:48:11.:48:15.

incest to travel to access abortion services. Amnesty say the likely

:48:16.:48:21.

Conservative DUP deal makes this case even more important. They say

:48:22.:48:25.

that Northern Ireland's politicians, particularly the DUP, have failed to

:48:26.:48:29.

deliver abortion reform and that's why they have to take the fight to

:48:30.:48:33.

court. What's the result you're looking for from this court case?

:48:34.:48:37.

With this case specifically we want the court to find that our laws, not

:48:38.:48:45.

only breach a woman's right to privacy, but our laws aamount to

:48:46.:48:50.

cruel and degrading treatment and are discriminatory against women in

:48:51.:48:53.

this part of the UK because if Sarah and women in those circumstances

:48:54.:48:56.

lived in another part of the UK, they would have been able to access

:48:57.:49:01.

abortion lawfully, but here, our law treats women like Sarah as a

:49:02.:49:03.

criminal. We shouldn't have been in that

:49:04.:49:06.

situation. We should have been at home with our medicals and in our

:49:07.:49:10.

hospital. Nobody knows when this is going to happen. It could happen

:49:11.:49:16.

again. I have a sister and female cousins, girls, women, constantly

:49:17.:49:20.

contacting us... Abortion is such a sensitive issue here and there are

:49:21.:49:24.

many opponents to Amnesty to Sarah. Those who don't want to see any

:49:25.:49:28.

extension to the circumstances in which abortion is legal. And so have

:49:29.:49:31.

involved themselves in this court case. I'm off to see antiabortion

:49:32.:49:44.

group. They're called Precious Life. They are set-up outside the

:49:45.:49:48.

university here. Hi, nice to meet you. You too. Is this your team?

:49:49.:50:02.

This Lucy is the chair of the Queen's Pro Life Society. She

:50:03.:50:06.

organises the outreach here every week. You get a really good

:50:07.:50:12.

reception. I believe that every life deserves to be protected, you know,

:50:13.:50:17.

both women and children and I don't think you can sort of rank the value

:50:18.:50:21.

of a human life based on anything. If someone has a disability or based

:50:22.:50:26.

on the circumstances of conception I think you have to protect everybody.

:50:27.:50:29.

This case in the court is about women who have been raped. Or have

:50:30.:50:37.

been subject to incest or where the baby will never live outside of

:50:38.:50:41.

pregnancy or will die as soon as it's born. We would argue as a third

:50:42.:50:46.

party intervener in that particular case that every child should be

:50:47.:50:49.

protected in law, policy and practise and that the law here

:50:50.:50:54.

should not be changed. While a child in the womb, that child alive and

:50:55.:50:58.

kicking. That child is a human being and that child deserves to be

:50:59.:51:02.

protected. So you think even if the mother doesn't want to carry it, she

:51:03.:51:06.

should have to? To murder a child in the womb is always wrong and that's

:51:07.:51:11.

what happens through an abortion. They know you're there, that's

:51:12.:51:20.

probably why. So do you have any sympathy with the pro-lifers?

:51:21.:51:25.

They're unbelievably passionate about this and they, through their

:51:26.:51:29.

eyes, that baby, that unborn baby is just the same as you or I? I

:51:30.:51:34.

appreciate that this is an issue that people have strong feelings on,

:51:35.:51:38.

but where I draw the line is when people force that opinion on other

:51:39.:51:43.

women. You know, this is an issue for each individual woman and her

:51:44.:51:47.

doctor. It's no one else's business. It's a private matter. What is it

:51:48.:51:50.

like for you, listening to the stories of the women that come to

:51:51.:51:56.

you? It's enormously difficult. I'm obviously speaking to these women in

:51:57.:52:00.

my Amnesty capacity, but as a woman myself I can't imagine what it's

:52:01.:52:03.

like for these women in these circumstances to be told that your

:52:04.:52:07.

pregnancy isn't viable or to be a victim of rape, to be a child who is

:52:08.:52:15.

a victim of incest, and to be told by doctors here, we can't help you.

:52:16.:52:18.

I mean abortion is not only a healthcare and Human Rights issue,

:52:19.:52:24.

but there is an economic dimension, women who have money will be able to

:52:25.:52:28.

circum haven't the law here because they can travelment women who live

:52:29.:52:32.

in poverty, don't In 2015 the BBC polled the Northern Irish public on

:52:33.:52:38.

this issue. 84% of people asked said abortion should be available in

:52:39.:52:45.

cases of rape. 67% said it should be in cases of abnormality. Precious

:52:46.:52:51.

Life dispute the findings. 84% of people in Northern Ireland said in

:52:52.:52:54.

cases of rape... Has everybody in Northern Ireland been asked? No.

:52:55.:52:58.

When you do polls, you don't ask everyone. While we are looking at

:52:59.:53:02.

the results, a member of the public starts ripping up their leaflets.

:53:03.:53:06.

She is just doing that for attention. I think you're spreading

:53:07.:53:12.

these. It's upsetting my son seeing these images. Do you think that you

:53:13.:53:16.

have the right to do this to other people walking past? Do you think it

:53:17.:53:20.

is a woman's right to make this decision and not you and your

:53:21.:53:24.

(BLEEP) absurd religious ideas? Don't you think a woman has the

:53:25.:53:28.

right to choose? Well, I think you've answered our question and

:53:29.:53:34.

you're in favour of abortion. (BLEEP) God bless that wee child.

:53:35.:53:38.

There is plenty of anger directed at the stall, but some also want to

:53:39.:53:43.

hear their arguments. Circumstances and it is necessary. In what

:53:44.:53:48.

circumstances? If the girl was raped or sexually abused or what do you

:53:49.:53:52.

call it, incest? Is it the child's fault? No, it's not the child's

:53:53.:53:58.

fault... Right, OK. It's not the girl's fault either. Why should we

:53:59.:54:02.

punish the child? I know what you're saying. I haven't thought about it

:54:03.:54:15.

that way. There you gallon. Yeah. Do you usually have people who are more

:54:16.:54:19.

in favour of your message? Well, a variety of different views and view

:54:20.:54:23.

points, but I mean that's basically for your eyes only that set-up

:54:24.:54:27.

there. We don't have the problem at all with... You have different

:54:28.:54:38.

opinions. It is a very emotional issue, isn't it? It's not really.

:54:39.:54:42.

It's quite black and white. What I'm saying, it's wrong. For a lot of

:54:43.:54:46.

people, it's not wrong, you know? You know that might be their opinion

:54:47.:54:50.

in this day and abling, but they're blind to it and it's important that

:54:51.:54:53.

they are informed and that's what we're here to do. How old is he?

:54:54.:55:03.

Two-and-a-half. Sarah now has two children. Jacob and ten week old

:55:04.:55:12.

Aoife. You've got a good play area here.

:55:13.:55:18.

How did what affect your pregnancies with these two? Well, I was, well,

:55:19.:55:26.

we were so nervous of it happening again. We were told if we had one,

:55:27.:55:29.

we would have a higher chance of having another. Have you had any

:55:30.:55:35.

abuse personally? Yes. Not only attacking me for what I'm trying to

:55:36.:55:39.

do, but they have seen pictures on Facebook of my son and then they

:55:40.:55:43.

were starting to say about ugly redheads and all this sort of stuff.

:55:44.:55:51.

It's just ridiculous. It's so awful. What do you want to see from this

:55:52.:55:59.

court case? Well, politicians failed to help us and women like me so

:56:00.:56:04.

we're hoping that we'll get the help through the court. If they ruled in

:56:05.:56:09.

your favour, would that feel like something of a victory like a step,

:56:10.:56:17.

some sort of change? It's bitter sweet. That's the best way of

:56:18.:56:25.

putting it. It would be a relief, but as I say, it would be mixed.

:56:26.:56:33.

Very mixed. Because... Well, as a family, we would have been against

:56:34.:56:37.

termination and abortion because like many people, we're very naive

:56:38.:56:42.

and very ill informed quite frankly and we had never ever thought that a

:56:43.:56:46.

termination would have been needed on medical grounds and one thing

:56:47.:56:50.

we've learnt from this journey is we don't judge anyone until you walk in

:56:51.:56:54.

their shoes because you just don't know how you'd react. Sarah and her

:56:55.:56:59.

mum want abortion to be legal in cases like her's, cases of foetal

:57:00.:57:09.

arnormality. Amnesty is looking for complete discriminalisation. There

:57:10.:57:14.

is any amount of families who there have who have been confronted with

:57:15.:57:18.

the reality of our law. It is illegal in almost every

:57:19.:57:21.

circumstance. Even if you get a victory in this case, it is likely

:57:22.:57:25.

to be challenged again. It's 2017. Our laws date back to 1861. It's

:57:26.:57:31.

unacceptable that our politicians have not grappled with this issue

:57:32.:57:35.

and legislated for change. Change is long overdue and it is coming.

:57:36.:57:45.

We will continue to follow developments in the case on this

:57:46.:57:49.

programme. Thank you for your help compiling

:57:50.:57:55.

the MPs charter. We asked you how you would like them to behave. There

:57:56.:58:06.

is your list. Number one, integrity. Two, empathy, three clarity and

:58:07.:58:10.

directness, four, humility. Five, passion. We're going to send it to

:58:11.:58:16.

all the new MPs over the coming days and weeks.

:58:17.:58:21.

On the programme tomorrow - snooker legend Ronnie O'Sullivan.

:58:22.:58:25.

Thank you for your company today. Have a good day. Bye-bye.

:58:26.:58:28.

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