13/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


13/06/2017

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Hello, it's Tuesday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:13.:00:14.

The law no deal, Theresa May will meet the leader of the DUP to broker

:00:15.:00:26.

a will to help her stay on in Number Ten. -- deal or no deal. Theresa May

:00:27.:00:31.

tells the party there will be no backtracking on gay rights, despite

:00:32.:00:36.

the deal with the DUP, but could it signal an end to austerity and a

:00:37.:00:38.

shift on Brexit? With MPs returning

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to the Commons today, we've gathered together

:00:41.:00:43.

a group of you to tell politicians what you want

:00:44.:00:45.

from them in their job. Integrity, I think integrity is key,

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we want somebody that will have the same persona in their public life as

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they do in their private lie. Sir Menzies have an inability to answer

:01:06.:01:11.

questions directly, and it is really simple. -- some MPs. Serving as an

:01:12.:01:28.

MP is a privilege, not a right. Almost a year since Jo Cox was

:01:29.:01:34.

murdered, her parents tell us how much they miss her. We will always

:01:35.:01:39.

be broken, because there is a piece missing. To the outside, while we do

:01:40.:01:44.

appear strong, all of us, there is a lot of days when they are bad, it is

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bad. We'll talk to Jo Cox's sister

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and husband before 11. And this programme has learned that

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another group which represents sexual abuse survivors is pulling

:01:58.:02:02.

out of the Government's sex abuse inquiry, accusing Theresa May of

:02:03.:02:06.

failing to protect survivors. We will hear from them before ten.

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Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.

:02:17.:02:18.

the latest breaking news and developing stories.

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that people trying to bulk up with protein bars and shakes

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If you use them, get in touch - use #Victorialive.

:02:27.:02:35.

And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:36.:02:39.

Our top story today, Theresa May will meet Arlene Foster to thrash

:02:40.:02:49.

out the details of a deal to support a minority, government.

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Opposition parties criticised the talks, Sinn Fein suggesting the deal

:02:54.:02:59.

would undermine the Good Friday peace agreement. With Brexit talks

:03:00.:03:03.

due to begin in less than a week, the EU chief negotiator Michel

:03:04.:03:06.

Barnier has called on Britain not to waste time. A medical correspondent

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Ben Wright has more. -- political correspondent Ben Wright has more.

:03:14.:03:16.

DUP leader Arlene Foster said it is a tremendous opportunity

:03:17.:03:18.

Theresa May knows a deal with the DUP is her only

:03:19.:03:22.

So an agreement will be reached, probably today,

:03:23.:03:25.

A confidence-and-supply arrangement will provide

:03:26.:03:30.

DUP support to the Tories on major votes

:03:31.:03:32.

like the Budget and the Queen's Speech.

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The alliance leaves the Government

:03:37.:03:37.

with a vulnerable majority of just six.

:03:38.:03:41.

But Theresa May now looks safer in her job

:03:42.:03:44.

after a meeting with Tory MPs yesterday evening.

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She apologised for the disastrous campaign,

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declaring, "I got us into this mess and I will get us out of it."

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There is a reality that is we have to be pragmatic about what is

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introduced, we have got to work harder to try to bring people

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along with us, both inside the Conservative Party and beyond.

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And while Theresa May tries to rebuild the Government

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from a hung parliament, a warning from the EU

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that the UK is wasting valuable time negotiating Brexit.

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More than two months have passed since Theresa May

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handed in the UK's notice, but no talks have happened,

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and there is a two-year deadline to hammer out a Brexit deal.

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Speaking to the Financial Times, EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier

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said the UK needed to appoint a negotiated team with a mandate

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soon because the process would be extraordinarily complex.

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Theresa May is also facing calls from some Tory MPs and Labour

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exactly the uncertainty she wanted the election to stop.

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We can talk to Norman Smith, who is in Downing Street, where politicians

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are arriving for a Cabinet meeting, but tell us what we can expect from

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this deal to be brokered between this deal to be brokered between

:05:11.:05:16.

Arlene Foster and Theresa May. Well, the deal is basically Mrs May's

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political lifeline to survival, because without it she does not have

:05:21.:05:25.

a majority in the Commons, and she cannot govern, so she absolutely has

:05:26.:05:30.

to have this deal. I think it is almost certain she will get it,

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would not be coming here. So we can would not be coming here. So we can

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expect they'd heal, and part of it will be a simple transaction, money

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for votes, Arlene Foster will want cash for investment, schools,

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hospitals, maybe a few international conferences, maybe government

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contracts, big sporting events in Northern Ireland, to show that she

:05:53.:05:56.

is getting something for Northern Ireland out of the deal. But the

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interesting part of the arrangement is what is not going to be spelt

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out, and that is the implications for austerity and Brexit. On

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austerity, the DUP have always opposed many of the austerity

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measures introduced by this and the previous governments. They still

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oppose things like the bedroom tax, getting rid of the triple lock on

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pensions, means testing benefits for the elderly, so the expectation is

:06:23.:06:27.

Mrs May will have to drop large chunks of austerity. That is not as

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difficult as it sounds, because Tories believe that one of the

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reasons Mr Corbyn did so well is because he kept banging on about

:06:36.:06:38.

austerity. So to some extent she is pushing at an open door. The more

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complex and difficult area is on Brexit, because those ministers and

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MPs who want to shift Mrs May away from her approach on Brexit, and

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instead to focus on the economy and the impact on the economy of Brexit,

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believe that the DUP will be on board, because of their concerns

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about what might happen if there is some sort of hard border between

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northern and southern Ireland. So there is a view that perhaps the DUP

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could help tilt the argument now raging again over Brexit against Mrs

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May. Thank you for the moment, Norman Smith, at Downing Street.

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Joanna has the rest of the morning's news. A brother and sister have been

:07:22.:07:25.

arrested after a man in his 40s was shot dead at a property in Slough.

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Reuben and Kathleen Gregory are being held on suspicion of murder.

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The pair are said to have lived in a caravan near woodland in Slough for

:07:35.:07:38.

more than 50 years. A BBC investigation has discovered

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22 Facebook accounts belonging They breach the company's rules

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banning them from the website. Radio 4's File On 4 programme found

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most of the accounts were taken down within 48 hours

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of being reported, while six were referred

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to police to investigate. The European Court of Human Rights

:07:54.:08:07.

and France will rule later whether the live support of a Yale baby boy

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in London can be switched off. Charlie Gard's parents want to take

:08:11.:08:17.

him to the US for treatment. The UK Supreme Court agreed with specialist

:08:18.:08:19.

doctors that he should instead received palliative care.

:08:20.:08:24.

A group representing abuse survivors has told this programme

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that it is quitting the government's independent inquiry

:08:27.:08:28.

The White Flowers Campaign has said it blames Theresa May -

:08:29.:08:33.

who set up the inquiry when she was Home Secretary -

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The group, which represents more than a hundred survivors,

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said it had lost faith in the inquiry

:08:40.:08:41.

and accused it of not being truly independent.

:08:42.:08:44.

The jury in the trial of the US entertainer Bill Cosby,

:08:45.:08:47.

who's appearing on sex assault charges, will return to court later

:08:48.:08:49.

having failed to reach a verdict last night.

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The 79-year-old is accused of assaulting a woman at his home

:08:52.:08:54.

The Cosby Show star denies the allegations

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and says the relationship was consensual.

:08:58.:09:03.

A woman has been charged with murder after a man died

:09:04.:09:05.

following a collision with a tram in Manchester.

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The 30-year-old man died at the scene

:09:08.:09:10.

at Manchester Victoria station on Sunday evening.

:09:11.:09:12.

31-year-old Charrissa Loren Brown-Wellington

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New guidelines are being introduced to ensure that sentences for

:09:15.:09:29.

offences committed against children in England and Wales properly

:09:30.:09:33.

reflect the arm suffered by victims. Those who try to blame others could

:09:34.:09:39.

face tougher punishments. The parents of murdered MP Jo Cox told

:09:40.:09:42.

this programme they will always be broken after their daughter's death.

:09:43.:09:47.

Friday marks a year since the Labour MP was killed outside a constituency

:09:48.:09:53.

surgery. This weekend, her family is encouraging people to join with

:09:54.:09:55.

friends and neighbours for a series of community events being held in

:09:56.:10:00.

her memory. We will talk to her husband Brendan and sister Kim at

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around half past ten. Bev on Facebook says my heart goes

:10:03.:10:13.

out to Jo's family for their loss and the way she was murdered, but

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life goes on. She is in a better place, let her rest in peace. On

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Facebook, a very sad loss, Jason on Facebook says, what a beautiful

:10:26.:10:30.

woman Jo Cox was. Alex, if Parliament was made up of people

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like Jo Cox, what an amazing society we would be living in. Thank you

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very much for those. Let me bring you breaking news from Germany, it

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is being reported by a French news agency, several people have been

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wounded after shots were fired at a railway station near Munich. One

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person has been detained, according to police, several people have been

:10:53.:10:55.

injured, a female police officer was badly wounded. Munich police have

:10:56.:11:01.

just tweeted, authorities say a handgun was found during a police

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operation at a station in Munich, although it is not thought to be

:11:05.:11:10.

terrorist related. Several people injured after shots were fired at a

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railway station near Munich, one person detained, it is not thought

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to be terrorism related, we are being told. Clearly, we will bring

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you more as soon as we have it. 11 minutes past nine, we will talk to

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voters in the next few minutes about what they want from MPs, who

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returned to work today, who returned to the Commons after that election.

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So much as happened in the last few days, hasn't it? But they are going

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to draw up a sort of manifesto of what they would like from MPs as

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they come back to work, get in touch with your own views. OK, let's bring

:11:45.:11:49.

you a bit of sport. And British bobsleigh is the latest

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sport to have its coaches come under scrutiny.

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What's been going on? Yes, a senior coach working

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with the country's Olympic bobsleigh And there have been a number

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of complaints over a "toxic Earlier this year, a host

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of athletes wrote anonymously to the chief executive

:12:05.:12:10.

of the sport's governing to share concerns over

:12:11.:12:14.

the behaviour of key performance One athlete alleged they had

:12:15.:12:17.

experienced racism several times from a senior coach,

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and that the coach referred to black people as lazy and had "a blatant

:12:22.:12:24.

dislike towards people of colour". in favour of Caucasian males

:12:25.:12:35.

on the performance programme and a racial stigma

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against black drivers. Another complainant said,

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"sexist comments are regular, there have been claims of racist

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remarks which all get ignored, athletes are literally terrified

:12:45.:12:46.

of putting a foot wrong," and there was "dictatorship

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within the management". Despite this, just a month later,

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the people complaining were told no British bobsleigh.

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And Theresa May might a chance to go to the football tonight?

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Yes, Theresa May and Emmanuel Macron will be at the Stade de France in

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Paris, I imagine they will get time to talk politics, but quite a

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significant fixture - just a friendly between England and France,

:13:17.:13:20.

but the significance is that French fans have been as to sing God Save

:13:21.:13:23.

The Queen in solidarity with Britain after the terror attacks in

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Manchester and London. The tribute echoes a couple of years ago when

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British fans, English fans at Wembley were asked to sing La

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Marseillaise alongside the French fans, just four days after those

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atrocities in Paris, so it kind of return fixture, if you like, four

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French fans at the Stade de France. This were being's last game of the

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season, just a friendly against France, kick-off is at a de-clutter

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night. And England's younger football is

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back with their World Cup. Yes, they flew back late last night

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from South Korea, the first World Cup win since 1966, this is them

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arriving back, manager Mark Simpson said it was too soon to claim they

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are the next generation of golden players. Gareth Southgate has said

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it is to over the clubs to nurture this young talent, and it will be

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interesting to see what happens to them next, because a lot of these

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players you may not have heard of, but they are signed to big clubs,

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and I think Gareth Southgate means that they all need a regular

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first-team pitch time with their clubs so that they continue to

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develop and improve, improve future England squads. And the worry is

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that, in chasing success, clubs will spend a lot of money on expensive

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foreign players, and that this home-grown, World Cup winning talent

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will spend much of next season on the bench.

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Thank you very much, Katherine, more from her during the morning. It is

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nearly quarter past nine this Tuesday morning, and the most

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powerful woman in Britain meet the Prime Minister in Downing Street

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today. A little bit of laughter from our voters!

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Arlene Foster of the Democratic Unionist Party, a small political

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party from Northern Ireland with just ten MPs,

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arrives to see what Theresa May can offer her in exchange

:15:12.:15:14.

for the DUP's support because Theresa May's Conservatives

:15:15.:15:17.

didn't win a majority in the last week's election,

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Mrs May needs those ten DUP MPs to stay on in government.

:15:21.:15:23.

Let's speak now to the former Conservative party leader and former

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Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith.

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Good morning. Do you feel any kind of affinity with the DUP? Can I say

:15:33.:15:40.

one thing, the football match with France. I was at the England match

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and I think it is wholly fitting and when I met French people they were

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very moved that the fans had sung the French anthem. My question was

:15:58.:16:00.

do you feel any kind of affinity with the DUP? Well, in the sense

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that the Conservative Party is the majority party, but hasn't got a

:16:06.:16:11.

overall majority. The DUP, it seems, appear, and are keen to let the

:16:12.:16:15.

Conservative Party govern and as a result of that Theresa May has to

:16:16.:16:18.

have a discussion with them. I think what you will find it is not about

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having an affinity, it is about what on balance are the things that they

:16:22.:16:24.

most want, the Conservatives to be in Government for and it's clear

:16:25.:16:28.

that the kind of arrangement I expect we'll end up with will be

:16:29.:16:31.

what they call a supply and confidence. That's to say on votes

:16:32.:16:34.

of confidence they will support us. On things like the Queen's Speech,

:16:35.:16:37.

they'll support us. On things like the Budget they will support us, but

:16:38.:16:42.

they will keep their own counsel on other things and they may not

:16:43.:16:45.

support us on other things, but the key areas where the votes are

:16:46.:16:49.

important, they by and large will back us. But it won't be a

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coalition, it will be a confidence and supply agreement. As long as

:16:53.:16:56.

they do back you on those big votes, it's OK with you, is it, that some

:16:57.:17:01.

of their MPs are repulsed by gay people, don't believe in same-sex

:17:02.:17:06.

marriage and don't believe in climate change and don't believe

:17:07.:17:10.

women who have been raped should have adorations? A large number of

:17:11.:17:15.

these issues are devolved issues, but it's not going to change

:17:16.:17:19.

anything. Theresa May made it clear on these areas where the

:17:20.:17:21.

Conservative Party is settled and clear, the DUP will have no

:17:22.:17:25.

influence over our views. We'll also anyway on those issues have a much

:17:26.:17:29.

broader consensual cross party arrangement so we wouldn't need the

:17:30.:17:33.

DUP on those issues, you know, I voted for gay marriage. I'm not

:17:34.:17:37.

going toe trenching on that one is nor is the Conservative Party. This

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will be an agreement, it is not about what their beliefs are, it is

:17:42.:17:45.

about key areas of Government where they believe the Conservative Party

:17:46.:17:48.

needs to deliver to keep the country stable and that's it. Will voters

:17:49.:17:51.

get to see the terms of this deal? I don't think they will be that

:17:52.:17:55.

complex, but I'm sure they will be clear and open. I would certainly

:17:56.:17:58.

want them to be that because it's clear that understand that what we

:17:59.:18:02.

won't have got involved in is any complex arrangement. Now, there is,

:18:03.:18:05.

and going to be issues around investment in Northern Ireland, but

:18:06.:18:08.

those are issues anyway that would have to be tackled as this is an

:18:09.:18:13.

area that is of very high priority to restabilise after the troubles

:18:14.:18:15.

and to make sure that the people there get good work and jobs and

:18:16.:18:19.

getting businesses there. That sort of stuff is just something that was

:18:20.:18:24.

in the plans. It is worth bearing in mind that as I understand Gordon

:18:25.:18:29.

Brown was busy trying to do deal with them in 2010 as well. So these

:18:30.:18:33.

kind of mathematical things are part of Parliament. And it seems that the

:18:34.:18:38.

political price to pay for doing that deal from a Conservative point

:18:39.:18:44.

of view, it will mean an end to austerity which some Conservative

:18:45.:18:46.

backbenchers will welcome because the DUP don't support your measures

:18:47.:18:50.

on austerity and Mrs May's and your vision of Brexit will have to go?

:18:51.:18:54.

Well, let's deal with the austerity thing. Look, there were lots and

:18:55.:18:57.

lots of issues and many of us, remember I resigned over a year ago

:18:58.:19:02.

because I disagreed with George Osborne's direction of tral and I

:19:03.:19:07.

have asked us to re-think whole areas of where we are. The length of

:19:08.:19:13.

time that we are asking public servants and others to put up with

:19:14.:19:17.

reduced flattened salaries has been an issue for me and many other

:19:18.:19:21.

people and we would like to see that revisited. This isn't just an issue

:19:22.:19:23.

to do with the DUP. What the election told us the election was

:19:24.:19:27.

too early and we should have had time to resolve those issues, but,

:19:28.:19:31.

on one side, there is a genuine discussion about that and I think

:19:32.:19:34.

there are key issues around education and stuff that we need to

:19:35.:19:38.

resolve. On the side of the Brexit side, actually the DUP are very

:19:39.:19:41.

clear that they support Theresa May's original position which is no,

:19:42.:19:45.

thet want control of the bofrders, money and laws. There will be no

:19:46.:19:49.

entry into the single market and they're keen not to be in the

:19:50.:19:55.

customs union. But they are opposed to her mantra of no deal is better

:19:56.:20:00.

than a bad deal. They're not actually opposed that. I promise you

:20:01.:20:07.

that this will become clear the DUP supports what her position is at

:20:08.:20:09.

time of the election and the majority of the Conservative Party

:20:10.:20:12.

believes this is a settled issue. So any idea... Well Ruth Davidson

:20:13.:20:23.

doesn't. Not every single MP from Scotland necessarily follows her

:20:24.:20:26.

line. The point is the party overall is settled. What we want, obviously

:20:27.:20:30.

is to engage and discuss these matters with people, but in essence

:20:31.:20:34.

those negotiations are due to start very, very shortly, ie next week and

:20:35.:20:37.

the can Conservative Government needs to get on and make sure that

:20:38.:20:41.

they now start talking to our European allies and friends about

:20:42.:20:45.

how we arrange to have the benefits as the Labour Party stood on the

:20:46.:20:48.

same manifesto, they stood on a manifesto which said no to the

:20:49.:20:52.

single market. No to customs union and control of our borders. So the

:20:53.:20:55.

majority of the British people had in front of them two parties that

:20:56.:20:59.

constituted the majority of the votes that stood on very similar

:21:00.:21:03.

manifestoes on Brexit. But it's not settled, is it? You must acknowledge

:21:04.:21:09.

from the lack of a majority and bass of people like Ruth Davidson,

:21:10.:21:13.

perhaps you think she's flexing her muscles too much, the question of

:21:14.:21:16.

your Brexit vision has been reopened whether you like it or not? I'm not

:21:17.:21:21.

overly bothered about that. The truth is we're going into

:21:22.:21:26.

negotiations and in negotiations different elements will cold out I

:21:27.:21:30.

think that the Conservative Party, people in Cabinet, who may well seem

:21:31.:21:34.

to think that they're going to start reopening this, the answer is I

:21:35.:21:37.

wouldn't try and re-open this before you start the negotiations because

:21:38.:21:41.

all you'll get is what we don't want is another argument and row going on

:21:42.:21:44.

in the governing party. What we need, we had a settled position. We

:21:45.:21:49.

had agreed that position before we went into the last election. The

:21:50.:21:53.

Labour Party to save their votes in those areas where there were strong

:21:54.:21:57.

Leavers who voted Labour in the past they adopted almost exactly the same

:21:58.:22:01.

position, you heard John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn saying in terms

:22:02.:22:05.

over the weekend we will not be in the single market. They do not

:22:06.:22:08.

intend to be in the customs union, but they want the benefits of having

:22:09.:22:12.

a good trade deal and good arrangements for access and that's

:22:13.:22:14.

what the Conservative negotiators want. So in a sense, what you've got

:22:15.:22:20.

is a minority of people who just trying to prise this open again, it

:22:21.:22:24.

shouldn't be opened and we should just get on with it and try and get

:22:25.:22:29.

the best deal we can which helps preserve jobs and get good trade

:22:30.:22:31.

deals. Iain Duncan Smith. Iain Duncan Smith will join hundreds

:22:32.:22:35.

of other MPs as they return to Parliament for the first time

:22:36.:22:38.

since the election on Thursday, an election which not only produced

:22:39.:22:40.

a result which virtually no one was expecting,

:22:41.:22:43.

but also showed yet more evidence of a country which is divided,

:22:44.:22:46.

with many who feel let down by traditional politics

:22:47.:22:49.

and politicians, and who aren't happy with the way

:22:50.:22:50.

many conduct themselves. So what lessons can be learned

:22:51.:22:52.

from the campaign, and what does it tell us about how the country

:22:53.:22:55.

wants our politicians to behave? We've brought together a group

:22:56.:22:58.

of voters here in the studio to chew the fat with two new MPs and two

:22:59.:23:01.

with just a little more experience. And we're going to try and draw

:23:02.:23:05.

up our audience manifesto or code of conduct for how

:23:06.:23:07.

they want our politicians Bambos Charalambous

:23:08.:23:10.

is the new Labour MP Christine Jardine, the new Lib Dem

:23:11.:23:18.

MP for Edinburgh West. John Baron, Conservative MP for

:23:19.:23:27.

Basildon and Billericay since 2001. Ben Bradshaw, the Labour MP

:23:28.:23:29.

in Exeter since 1997. I can barely remember that year!

:23:30.:23:39.

Welcome everybody. We've got voters as well. Let me ask, not the

:23:40.:23:45.

politicians, our voters first of all. What word would you use to

:23:46.:23:51.

describe politicians right now? Shady. Disindisingeneralous.

:23:52.:24:08.

Dishonest. I'll come back with one word!

:24:09.:24:09.

LAUGHTER I have more than one word. No, give

:24:10.:24:17.

me a some if you can't contain it to one. In need of one. Yeah, I

:24:18.:24:22.

strongly believe they're divided. You can see that throughout their

:24:23.:24:25.

parties, not just in the Conservative Party, but also in the

:24:26.:24:27.

Labour Party. Too divided. What about you? I would say unavailable.

:24:28.:24:33.

Unavailable definitely. Meaning, what you can't get access to them?

:24:34.:24:37.

They don't come across that way. They come across from a come across

:24:38.:24:49.

as if they're from a completely different world. How do you react to

:24:50.:24:54.

those adjectives? I think it's understandable that people would

:24:55.:24:57.

think that way after some of the things that happened in British

:24:58.:25:00.

politics over the past few years. I'm not at all surprised. I think we

:25:01.:25:07.

have to work to reassure people that we're not all duplicitous or shady

:25:08.:25:11.

and try to be more united in the way that we look at things? I think we

:25:12.:25:15.

need to regain the trust of the public. Easier said than done? It is

:25:16.:25:20.

hard, but you get a and great opportunity as a new MP to build

:25:21.:25:23.

that trust with your electorate. We need to go out there and make sure

:25:24.:25:26.

we are listening to people and that we are truly representing them. Ben

:25:27.:25:31.

Bradshaw, you have been an MP for a long time. You will have heard these

:25:32.:25:35.

adjectives before, is it disheartening that people are still

:25:36.:25:39.

saying this? It is a bit. I won a Tory seat in 1997, I have a 16,000

:25:40.:25:43.

majority, I haven't achieved that by not being available and your advice

:25:44.:25:48.

to the new MPs and to long-standing MPs was the right one. Make yourself

:25:49.:25:53.

available. Jo Cox was a fantastic role model about what an MP could be

:25:54.:25:57.

like and should be like. She made herself very available and lost her

:25:58.:26:00.

life for doing that and certainly it's a model that good MPs and the

:26:01.:26:07.

vast majority of MPs are in this because they want to serve their

:26:08.:26:11.

constituents and their country. The vast majority of MPs go into

:26:12.:26:16.

politics for the right reason because the concept of public

:26:17.:26:18.

service, they want to serve the public. And I think the vast

:26:19.:26:23.

majority do a decent job at that, but there is this disconnect which

:26:24.:26:27.

we need to try and repair and mend and all I would say is look at your

:26:28.:26:30.

own individual MP because what is interesting in this debate is when

:26:31.:26:33.

you talk to constituents, you get a different view of their local MP

:26:34.:26:36.

than you do of the concept generally. The nature of this

:26:37.:26:40.

conversation, it is broadly generalised, you appreciate that,

:26:41.:26:44.

but Mel, you will have heard politicians say look, we are in it

:26:45.:26:49.

for the right motive, so why do you still have such a bad feeling about

:26:50.:26:52.

them, that their reputation is so poor? Well, I don't have a totally

:26:53.:26:58.

bad feeling, but I think there is not enough leadership coming from

:26:59.:27:01.

politicians. When we face Brexit, we will need more than political

:27:02.:27:05.

management. We need people who can articulate a political vision and

:27:06.:27:09.

who can answer the question of what sort of nation do we want to be?

:27:10.:27:12.

Instead we get politicians who are concerned or seemingly only with the

:27:13.:27:16.

next five year election cycle, so I think we need to do better on

:27:17.:27:18.

leadership. That's a very, very good point. I think one of the things we

:27:19.:27:24.

need to do more is set out why we want a good deal. The prospect of

:27:25.:27:31.

opportunity that's there and paint reasons for actually negotiating

:27:32.:27:33.

that good deal and being positive and I think that's one thing perhaps

:27:34.:27:37.

we take away as Conservatives from the general election is that we

:27:38.:27:41.

didn't perhaps talk enough about sunnier uplands, the positive

:27:42.:27:45.

reasons for voting and what sort of country we want to live in and there

:27:46.:27:49.

is a lot to be said. David? I don't know, I just get the feeling that

:27:50.:27:54.

Brexit and the recent elections has really exposed politicians to the

:27:55.:27:58.

public about, you know, this is all just grabbing power, you know look

:27:59.:28:02.

at the DUP and people doing deals with each other and it's very dirty.

:28:03.:28:05.

A lot of the time I feel that politicians, I did a lot of

:28:06.:28:08.

campaigning over the years and a lot of time I find that it's difficult

:28:09.:28:11.

to get politicians support for certain things that we know we need

:28:12.:28:15.

to happen in society and I think they need to be working together

:28:16.:28:18.

across parties, especially when it comes to Brexit because both parties

:28:19.:28:24.

are not really obviously... That's going to have to happen now. There

:28:25.:28:29.

is no alternative. Theresa May's destructive hard Brexit is dead.

:28:30.:28:33.

It's over. Everything has changed. We have got to work across party and

:28:34.:28:38.

that's what the public are asking us to do by delivering this election

:28:39.:28:42.

result. I agree and we have ant opportunity to have a much more open

:28:43.:28:47.

approach to Brexit and I was disappointed in what Iain Duncan

:28:48.:28:49.

Smith said because he seemed to take the opposite approach which was the

:28:50.:28:54.

argument is closed. Well, I would argue that the actual election

:28:55.:28:57.

result shows that the argument is not closed. That people rejected

:28:58.:29:01.

Theresa May's very hard Brexit approach and they want a more open

:29:02.:29:06.

approach with as Ben says other ideas coming in, talk across the

:29:07.:29:11.

parties. Gather support from a much broader approach. In Parliamentary

:29:12.:29:17.

practicalities there will have to be Parliamentary consensus because

:29:18.:29:20.

things will get voted down and no progress will be made? Yes, there

:29:21.:29:25.

are discussions going on about how we can rescue our country from this

:29:26.:29:30.

disastrous destructive Brexit which Theresa May set her mind on for no

:29:31.:29:36.

apparent reason. She interpreted the referendum in a particular way which

:29:37.:29:40.

the public rejected. Having been a Remainor herself. Taking it slightly

:29:41.:29:44.

back from Brexit because we could actually be talking Brexit the whole

:29:45.:29:50.

of this time. I said I wanted politicians to recognise that it was

:29:51.:29:54.

a privilege and my comment actually came, it wasn't what I was going to

:29:55.:29:58.

say originally, it came from an interview with the chair of the

:29:59.:30:03.

backbench 1922 committee last night on the news where he said and I'm

:30:04.:30:07.

not quoting verbatim, but he said something on the lines of there are

:30:08.:30:13.

lessons to be learnt the soundbite that has more bite than vibe, one of

:30:14.:30:17.

the things we're going to have to think about is why so many people,

:30:18.:30:20.

some of them must be intelligent, voted Labour!

:30:21.:30:25.

And I just, you know, my hands just went like this. You found that

:30:26.:30:31.

rather patronising. I found that patronising and I found that rude.

:30:32.:30:36.

People, however much integrity you have, you've got to watch your

:30:37.:30:39.

tongues and what you say because we pay your wages.

:30:40.:30:45.

If you could deliver a demand to politicians going back to work

:30:46.:30:51.

today, what do you want from them? I want to feel as the viewer doing the

:30:52.:30:56.

job you are supposed to be doing, representing me, representing my

:30:57.:30:59.

neighbours, and all my friends and all my family and all the people I

:31:00.:31:04.

am ever going to know, you are representing us, so I have to have

:31:05.:31:09.

some affinity with you, and even if we do come from different

:31:10.:31:13.

backgrounds, I have to feel confident that you are representing

:31:14.:31:18.

me - not... I don't want to feel as though you are from a completely

:31:19.:31:22.

different world, I don't get what you are saying, I don't understand

:31:23.:31:25.

what you're saying, how does that affect me, literally, that is what

:31:26.:31:32.

we want to know. The UK referendum is a classic example of the MPs

:31:33.:31:39.

ignoring the population. How do you work that out? Because they try to

:31:40.:31:43.

turn it into a political battle, when in fact it was a vote by the

:31:44.:31:47.

population to decide how they wanted the country to go forward in the

:31:48.:31:52.

future. And what we should be doing now, because the Europeans are our

:31:53.:31:56.

friends, what we should be doing now is forming a commission comprised of

:31:57.:32:02.

both parties, all parties in Parliament, and members of the

:32:03.:32:06.

public, so that they can all go together and negotiate with our

:32:07.:32:11.

friends in Europe. OK. And that way we will see more honest and genuine.

:32:12.:32:19.

One, John. Just briefly, part of the unfortunate thing of just watching

:32:20.:32:23.

PMQs is that there is too much of a risk of seeing politics through the

:32:24.:32:27.

prism of PMQs. What I would like to say is that there is much more

:32:28.:32:32.

co-operation across the parties than is generally realised. For example,

:32:33.:32:37.

I am chair of the all-party Parliamentary group on cancer, which

:32:38.:32:40.

brings politicians from across the political divide together,

:32:41.:32:43.

questioning the Government of the day, whatever their colour. So there

:32:44.:32:47.

is more co-operation than people realise. So why play those

:32:48.:32:54.

particular roles during PMQs? Some of us do not shout... Plenty of your

:32:55.:32:59.

colleagues do. Governments have to be brought to account, and you have

:33:00.:33:03.

to ask difficult questions, and you get direct answers back. But the

:33:04.:33:06.

bottom line is we should remember there is a lot of co-operation, and

:33:07.:33:10.

there needs to be, and I think people are right in the sense that

:33:11.:33:13.

when it comes to Brexit, we are going to have to carry people with

:33:14.:33:17.

us on this issue. I have never understood what the difference was

:33:18.:33:24.

the between hard and soft Brexit, it is a question of getting the best

:33:25.:33:29.

possible deal, and there seems to be an enormous amount of conformity

:33:30.:33:31.

between Labour on the Conservatives with regards to what we want from

:33:32.:33:37.

the EU negotiations. OK. You do see the parties coming together. We are

:33:38.:33:41.

not having the Brexit conversation again! So what are our top three or

:33:42.:33:48.

top five? Put them in order, what do you reckon? Integrity, definitely.

:33:49.:33:54.

So including honesty in that. Transparency, that sort of thing.

:33:55.:34:07.

Passion with respect. Is that number two, is that as high up as it should

:34:08.:34:13.

be? Theresa May sounded like a robot during her campaign... What else, as

:34:14.:34:18.

well as integrity? What else is important? Empathy is a big one, the

:34:19.:34:24.

ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, a boss will tell

:34:25.:34:33.

someone what to do, a leader will show them. MPs need to be leading in

:34:34.:34:39.

compassion, forgiveness, respect, in showing people those values. So how

:34:40.:34:45.

shall we describe that, affinity, empathy? Yeah? Well, I am really

:34:46.:34:52.

interested that is number two, that says a lot, particularly perhaps

:34:53.:34:56.

because of recent weeks. What else are we going for? Clarity. You

:34:57.:35:03.

asking a lot of there, Sharon! Clarity? You mean you don't

:35:04.:35:06.

understand the phrase Brexit means Brexit? I don't understand a word

:35:07.:35:18.

they say! If someone asks me a question, I want the answer, not the

:35:19.:35:27.

same mantra over and over again? Of clarity and directness when they go

:35:28.:35:39.

to press conferences, they know what they are going to say, regardless of

:35:40.:35:44.

the question. We have two experienced politicians and two new

:35:45.:35:48.

politicians, why is it so hard to answer questions directly? If I and

:35:49.:35:54.

so directly, it means a damning headline, is that what is going on?

:35:55.:36:01.

-- if I answer directly. I try to answer directly, I am sure

:36:02.:36:04.

colleagues here do as well, and there is a danger you generalise

:36:05.:36:09.

across all MPs. You have made that point. We decide to do this job as

:36:10.:36:16.

best we can. I have a reputation for speaking my mind, but there is a

:36:17.:36:20.

difference between being in government and in opposition, I am

:36:21.:36:23.

much more free as an opposition backbencher to say whatever I like!

:36:24.:36:29.

Isn't that the problem with party politics? You have to toe the party

:36:30.:36:33.

line, I would love to be in politics, but I could not do that.

:36:34.:36:37.

It is like being in a club, if you come to an agreement in the

:36:38.:36:41.

organisation, you stick to it. If you are going to have a united

:36:42.:36:44.

organisational club, you have to stick to the line. There are ways of

:36:45.:36:48.

answering questions which sounded less evasive than some ministers do

:36:49.:36:54.

it, and you can think of your most and least favourite politicians for

:36:55.:36:57.

and swing questions, but there is a different with collective

:36:58.:37:00.

responsibility and having that freedom. So clarity and directness?

:37:01.:37:06.

Directness and clarity? Any preference? No? Excuse my writing.

:37:07.:37:11.

Clarity and directness... Right, is that it? No, I think four has to be

:37:12.:37:19.

humility, I would put it much higher up. OK, humility. There is such a

:37:20.:37:26.

peeling of we are up here, you are down there, and as you said in your

:37:27.:37:30.

intro, we pay your wages, you are only there because we put an X in

:37:31.:37:38.

the box, so recognised us. Yeah? Are we happy with our top four? What is

:37:39.:37:45.

wrong with passengers I love a bit of passion, believe me! Make its

:37:46.:37:56.

number five! OK, passion! OK... Passion. Sorry! Right, MPs, your

:37:57.:38:08.

reaction? I 100% agree with that, I think humility, the area eyelid in I

:38:09.:38:13.

represent, someone I get the train in the morning, people speak to me.

:38:14.:38:21.

-- the area I live in, I represent. So to be accountable, you have to

:38:22.:38:24.

respect other people, they put their trust in me, I have to respect that.

:38:25.:38:29.

Christian, what about you as a new MP? Formerly a special adviser, you

:38:30.:38:34.

have been around a bit. I don't mean that in the way... You know what I

:38:35.:38:40.

mean, you are experienced! I think those points are all be enough, and

:38:41.:38:43.

one of the problem is that politicians have is that somehow

:38:44.:38:49.

they have managed as a group, not individuals, to portray this image

:38:50.:38:53.

to the public that we don't have personal lives, we don't have

:38:54.:38:56.

families, that we don't actually worry about paying the mortgage

:38:57.:39:02.

ourselves. And I think we need to be more open about the fact that we

:39:03.:39:06.

have lives you are normal people, Shaka! Shark horror! I had personal

:39:07.:39:21.

issues during the campaign, a bereavement, and we got a lot of

:39:22.:39:26.

support. People see you in PMQs, arguing and fighting, and forget

:39:27.:39:29.

that we colleagues and we'll have the same problems. That happened

:39:30.:39:35.

with Jo Cox, to see the whole House come together, they realised she was

:39:36.:39:40.

a really good MP. And beyond that, as the people we represent, I think

:39:41.:39:46.

we are very bad at being open and speaking clearly and honestly about

:39:47.:39:51.

our lives. All right. Are you two happy to sign up to this list? I am

:39:52.:39:58.

sure you already exhibit some of those characteristics! I think, for

:39:59.:40:02.

me, absolutely. One that is missing if I can dare give advice to our new

:40:03.:40:07.

colleagues who have won marginal seats from another party, very hard

:40:08.:40:10.

work - you need to put the hard work in. I agree with all of those,

:40:11.:40:17.

integrity, empathy is very important, we always have to design

:40:18.:40:21.

our policies as best we can to help those more vulnerable at the bottom

:40:22.:40:25.

end of the pay scale and all the rest of it, and employed, one nation

:40:26.:40:29.

politics, if you like, whichever side of the House. But humility is

:40:30.:40:34.

very important. We have, number four. I'm just addressing the list,

:40:35.:40:40.

because it is important that MPs, politics says, we are going to

:40:41.:40:43.

listen, we might have got this wrong, we are going to think about

:40:44.:40:47.

it again. That is carrying people along. I will make a deal with you,

:40:48.:40:51.

Victoria, if we do more of that, the immediate needs to be more tolerant

:40:52.:40:55.

when it comes to accusing us of not knowing where we are going. That is

:40:56.:41:02.

there point, but there are U-turns and there are U-turns! -- a fair

:41:03.:41:08.

point. But you are generalising across the media, as we have been

:41:09.:41:13.

generalising, so right back at you! Very last word. It might sound odd

:41:14.:41:17.

from a Liberal Democrat, but one of the things that had most impact on a

:41:18.:41:20.

generation, helping the Labour Party, the night before he died,

:41:21.:41:25.

John Smith talked about how the Labour Party were asking for the

:41:26.:41:28.

opportunity to serve, and more politicians need to take that sort

:41:29.:41:33.

of approach. It is, as Carol said, about service. Excellent point, I am

:41:34.:41:39.

defending colleagues here - the vast majority, we must member, go for the

:41:40.:41:42.

right reason, and they believe in public service. What message would

:41:43.:41:46.

you give to those who are not following those values? You are

:41:47.:41:51.

saying the right things but the reality is... There is no room for

:41:52.:41:55.

you in politics, and by and large they do get found out on both sides

:41:56.:42:00.

of the House. We are going to ask the MPs to sign up to your code of

:42:01.:42:05.

conduct, if that is right, and if you come across colleagues today, if

:42:06.:42:08.

you wouldn't mind mentioning it, it would be useful. Thank you very much

:42:09.:42:12.

for coming on the programme, we appreciate it. We mentioned Jo Cox a

:42:13.:42:16.

couple of times, one of those politicians that most people think

:42:17.:42:18.

stuck by that code of conduct. On 16th June last year,

:42:19.:42:23.

the Labour MP was murdered outside her constituency

:42:24.:42:26.

in Birstall, Yorkshire. It was a crime that horrified

:42:27.:42:27.

the country but united people In the days, weeks and months

:42:28.:42:30.

that followed, Jo Cox's friends and family pledged

:42:31.:42:35.

to continue her legacy, rather than let it be

:42:36.:42:37.

overshadowed by what happened. In the run-up to the first

:42:38.:42:39.

anniversary of her death, her sister Kim Leadbeater

:42:40.:42:42.

and her family have invited our reporter Catherine Burns

:42:43.:42:44.

to their home for the first time to share their private

:42:45.:42:47.

memories of Jo. We'll never be fully repaired,

:42:48.:42:56.

if you like, because there's always

:42:57.:42:59.

a piece of us missing. I think there must be a difference

:43:00.:43:06.

between denial and disbelief. And Jo's children have got so much

:43:07.:43:10.

of her and Brendan in them. That's a great legacy,

:43:11.:43:20.

I mean, we love that. When I have the darkest

:43:21.:43:30.

and the difficult moments, I just think, right,

:43:31.:43:34.

she would not want you to lose it. to the anger and to

:43:35.:43:40.

the upset and to the hatred. Yes, this is the wonderful

:43:41.:43:47.

town of Batley. She wanted to be at the heart

:43:48.:44:00.

of the constituency, and this is where she decided

:44:01.:44:04.

to base herself. there's still the Jo Cox MP

:44:05.:44:08.

sign on the door. Yes, yes, it's hard

:44:09.:44:13.

to know what to do Is it worse to have it there or

:44:14.:44:15.

better to have it there, you know? I keep saying to myself,

:44:16.:44:27.

if I get through to the end of July with my health

:44:28.:44:30.

and my sanity, I've done well. And then I really don't

:44:31.:44:33.

know what comes after that. because that normal life

:44:34.:44:36.

doesn't exist, you know. Kim Leadbeater

:44:37.:44:40.

has spent this year trying to build a legacy

:44:41.:44:46.

for her sister, Jo Cox. I still miss the sound

:44:47.:44:51.

of her coming down the drive. Her parents have

:44:52.:44:55.

generally avoided the limelight, This is their first interview

:44:56.:44:59.

on national TV. What were you doing

:45:00.:45:06.

when you got that call? We'd just sat down

:45:07.:45:08.

about five minutes, And he just said, "Jo's

:45:09.:45:10.

been shot, I think." And we jumped in the car,

:45:11.:45:23.

I remember I was jumping in the car, I don't know how

:45:24.:45:32.

we managed to get there. People are shot and

:45:33.:45:40.

recover, etc, etc. But you see these things

:45:41.:45:55.

on the television where the doctor, in this

:45:56.:46:09.

case it was a police inspector, comes into the room

:46:10.:46:12.

and he has to tell you. In fact, he doesn't

:46:13.:46:16.

have to tell you. You can see by his

:46:17.:46:19.

expression. And he said, "I'm sorry to say

:46:20.:46:26.

she didn't make it". I think that the difficult

:46:27.:46:28.

thing, it's the That's very, very

:46:29.:46:30.

difficult to understand. And it's about creating a new level

:46:31.:46:38.

of normality for us as a family. One of the things that Kim

:46:39.:46:41.

said afterwards was, "Our family is broken now

:46:42.:46:44.

but we will mend over time". We will always be broken,

:46:45.:46:47.

because there's a piece missing. But, yeah, I think to the outside

:46:48.:46:52.

world we do appear strong. But there's a lot of days

:46:53.:46:57.

when the bad is bad. The long times for us

:46:58.:47:04.

are when we turn the television on and see terrorist acts -

:47:05.:47:08.

Westminster Bridge, Manchester - because that's when it

:47:09.:47:13.

brings everything back. For me, the ambulances,

:47:14.:47:20.

the sirens, I'm back But we still think

:47:21.:47:22.

about the people who have lost loved ones, and we know

:47:23.:47:31.

what they are actually just It must be awful for them.

:47:32.:47:34.

We know what we went through. And unfortunately

:47:35.:47:40.

they don't, as yet. Going forward, build

:47:41.:47:46.

on the children, the grandchildren. Because you're right,

:47:47.:47:50.

it won't go away. And Jo's children have got so much

:47:51.:47:59.

of her and Brendan in them. That's a great legacy

:48:00.:48:14.

and we love that. Jo, she loved them to bits,

:48:15.:48:16.

absolutely loved them. And that's the most

:48:17.:48:18.

upsetting thing, from my It was, for you especially,

:48:19.:48:20.

after Jo was murdered, Lejla and Cuillin came up, and you found it

:48:21.:48:31.

really difficult, didn't you? Obviously this year you've

:48:32.:48:34.

all been part of the But the public face of it

:48:35.:48:42.

has really been Kim. How do you feel about

:48:43.:48:47.

the work she's done? More than one person

:48:48.:48:50.

came up to me after the funeral, and after Kim talked

:48:51.:48:54.

in Birstall marketplace, and said, "You've got not one,

:48:55.:48:59.

but two marvellous daughters. One we saw, Jo, on occasions,

:49:00.:49:06.

on the television And, you know, we're very proud,

:49:07.:49:09.

because I can't separate So this is not what you'd

:49:10.:49:19.

expect your average But this was Jo, just

:49:20.:49:27.

very relaxed, very comfortable, and just embracing

:49:28.:49:32.

the situation she was in. That is absolutely

:49:33.:49:35.

stunning, isn't it? Yeah, that's the birthday

:49:36.:49:40.

karaoke with the Elaine Paige and Barbara Dickson,

:49:41.:49:44.

I Know Him So Well, which was our party piece

:49:45.:49:48.

when we were kids. And it was re-enacted

:49:49.:49:54.

for my birthday last year. # I could have made

:49:55.:49:59.

it differently #. We were really close,

:50:00.:50:12.

like all growing up throughout childhood

:50:13.:50:16.

we were really, really close. There is two years age

:50:17.:50:18.

difference between us, and I am younger, although nobody

:50:19.:50:20.

believed it because Jo looked so We just had a really close

:50:21.:50:23.

relationship, and we never fell out. # But in the end he needs a lit more

:50:24.:50:27.

security. . # It wasn't about Jo Cox

:50:28.:50:49.

MP, it was actually Joanne Leadbeater,

:50:50.:50:51.

who was my sister. Literally sort of within days of Jo

:50:52.:50:53.

been killed, things just started to arrive, and the house

:50:54.:50:55.

was just full of flowers. And that was the classic,

:50:56.:50:59.

line, I never met your sister, but I just had to do

:51:00.:51:01.

something, I just had to say Me and mum and dad when we're out

:51:02.:51:05.

and about and stuff, we go to the supermarket, and we've met

:51:06.:51:09.

people, and they just end Maybe that has detracted

:51:10.:51:12.

from my personal grief, But it has certainly provided

:51:13.:51:19.

comfort and support. At the same time we saw that public

:51:20.:51:24.

outpouring of grief, this was your personal

:51:25.:51:26.

tragedy as well. How did you manage to

:51:27.:51:28.

balance those two things? And, you know, people who knew Jo

:51:29.:51:30.

through politics, people who And initially I found

:51:31.:51:39.

that a bit, hang She's my mum and dad's Jo,

:51:40.:51:42.

and she's Brendan's Jo, really. But then actually you

:51:43.:51:48.

think how lovely it is that so many people

:51:49.:51:51.

wanted her to be their Jo. So you can't possibly

:51:52.:51:53.

be cross about that. Has it hit yet that

:51:54.:51:56.

she isn't coming back? I know exactly

:51:57.:51:59.

what happened. I've got those facts,

:52:00.:52:02.

but I don't think I've got them on a deep emotional level yet, and that

:52:03.:52:06.

worries me, because when that happens it's difficult

:52:07.:52:10.

to know what will happen. I think there must be a difference

:52:11.:52:12.

between denial and disbelief. I've got closer than

:52:13.:52:19.

ever to mum and dad. Which again is heartbreaking

:52:20.:52:29.

at times, when you think, you know, I'm

:52:30.:52:31.

their only child now. And I have guilt associated

:52:32.:52:35.

with that as well, because when the phone rings and it

:52:36.:52:40.

would always be, "oh, it's Like that's, you know,

:52:41.:52:42.

that's gone forever now. It was supposed

:52:43.:52:46.

by Jo's birthday less Her husband, Brendan,

:52:47.:52:50.

spoke in London's We try to remember not how

:52:51.:52:54.

cruelly she has been taken from us, but how unbelievably

:52:55.:53:01.

lucky we were to have her And let me start by saying

:53:02.:53:03.

thank you to everybody My sister would want her murder

:53:04.:53:11.

to mobilise people, To try to make

:53:12.:53:27.

a positive difference. And that's exactly what Kim

:53:28.:53:37.

has spent the last 12 months doing, trying to create

:53:38.:53:41.

something positive from Jo's death. She's worked on causes close

:53:42.:53:45.

to her heart, everything from tackling loneliness to getting

:53:46.:53:47.

communities to But in many ways, she's

:53:48.:53:49.

put her own life on hold. So this is where you

:53:50.:53:56.

had your big speech? Yes, the big tribute to Jo.

:53:57.:53:59.

The big tribute on the 22nd of June. Because I'm a very private person,

:54:00.:54:05.

what I tend to be able to seem to do is just go into this mode

:54:06.:54:09.

of having a job to do and then doing it, and then the fallout

:54:10.:54:13.

for me is often when I get home. So I end up really

:54:14.:54:16.

drained, really tired, and that's when I tend

:54:17.:54:18.

to get more upset. You've spoken a lot today

:54:19.:54:20.

about sort of Jo's legacy, but there's also your life -

:54:21.:54:23.

you, Kim, and what's next for you. I don't know what I'll do,

:54:24.:54:26.

I don't what I'll do. But I think, you know,

:54:27.:54:28.

the platform that we've been given, for the worst possible reasons,

:54:29.:54:31.

my instinct is to try and create something positive

:54:32.:54:34.

out of that by using it in a good way, but I've no idea

:54:35.:54:37.

what shape that takes. We'll be talking to Jo

:54:38.:54:49.

Cox's husband, Brendan, And Kim, Jo's sister. These messages

:54:50.:55:01.

from you. Scott says, "This is a heartbreaking interview with Jo

:55:02.:55:07.

Cox's parents." Kirsty says, "I'm crying over Jo Cox's incredible

:55:08.:55:13.

parents." Kevin Cook tweets to say, "I'm 52 years of age today and I've

:55:14.:55:21.

done a run in memory of Jo Cox and sponsored an AFC Croydon football

:55:22.:55:27.

game in her memory." On our manifesto or code of conduct,

:55:28.:55:31.

whatever you'd like to call the rules that voters came up for

:55:32.:55:34.

politicians as they return to the House of Commons today after the

:55:35.:55:39.

general election, Mel says, "Integrity, honesty, humility. Your

:55:40.:55:43.

panel is spot on today. This is what we want from our politicians."

:55:44.:55:52.

The singer Katy Perry has apologised for "appropriating black and Asian

:55:53.:55:55.

In a recent interview, the singer admitted that she is guilty

:55:56.:55:59.

of cultural appropriation and benefits from what she

:56:00.:56:01.

She's been speaking to promote her latest album, witness .

:56:02.:56:06.

I've made several mistakes and having a hard conversation with one

:56:07.:56:11.

of my empowered angels about what does it mean? Can can't I wear my

:56:12.:56:15.

hair that way? What is the history behind wearing the hair that way?

:56:16.:56:21.

And she told me about the power in plaque women's hair and how

:56:22.:56:26.

beautiful it is and the struggle. And I listened and I heard and I

:56:27.:56:30.

didn't know and I will never understand some of those things

:56:31.:56:34.

because of who I am. I will never understand.

:56:35.:56:37.

BBC Radio 1 Newsbeat's music reporter Stve

:56:38.:56:39.

Just fill us in a little bit more about what she has been criticised

:56:40.:56:46.

for and why in the past? Katie Perry is a loud pop star. She is full of

:56:47.:56:50.

colour and costumes and that's what has got her into trouble in the

:56:51.:56:54.

past. Two specific occasions. A couple of years ago she sang a song

:56:55.:57:03.

called Unconditionally and she was accused of racism. Secondly, she did

:57:04.:57:08.

a music video called This Is How We Do. She was wearing corn rows and

:57:09.:57:17.

eating watermelon and criticised for appropriating black culture and both

:57:18.:57:22.

times she was criticised and she never really apologised and just

:57:23.:57:25.

said, "I didn't know what I was doing. I'm just a pop star. I I'm

:57:26.:57:33.

just loud." That's how she dealt with any criticism? So the last four

:57:34.:57:39.

days she spent her time in an apartment in America to promote this

:57:40.:57:43.

new album and she has been addressing lots of issues that she

:57:44.:57:47.

has been crit sided for in the past. This cultural appropriation issue is

:57:48.:57:50.

one specifically because in the past she said, "I didn't know I was doing

:57:51.:57:54.

anything wrong. It was up to my friends to tell me this is why you

:57:55.:57:59.

shouldn't be wearing corn rows because you're using black culture

:58:00.:58:05.

for your own gain." There are other issues that she has been dealing

:58:06.:58:09.

with. The feud with Taylor Swift which is the stuff of entertainment

:58:10.:58:14.

journalists, we love it. Sum it up in a line. Tell us why they have

:58:15.:58:20.

been feuding. Taylor Swift, Katie Perry took a couple of Taylor Swift

:58:21.:58:25.

dancers. Took them? From a tour. They were on tour and Katie Perry

:58:26.:58:32.

took them in the middle of Taylor Swift's tourment it is probably what

:58:33.:58:35.

teenage girls fight about and since then they have not spoken o an

:58:36.:58:41.

Friday Katie Perry released her new album and Taylor Swift had taken all

:58:42.:58:47.

of her music off Spotify and decided Taylor Swift that Friday was the

:58:48.:58:53.

best day to put her music on Spotify thereby taking the wind out of Katie

:58:54.:58:58.

Perry's sails and Katie Perry tried to Bury the hatchet with Taylor

:58:59.:59:05.

Swift and said we are both strong women in the music industry and she

:59:06.:59:10.

is a great songwriter, it feels clinical and cold. A bit like

:59:11.:59:15.

promoting your new album? Well, exactly. She spent four days talking

:59:16.:59:20.

about something that's getting her headlines. It is nice to her address

:59:21.:59:25.

it. Because in the past she almost stuck her head in the sand with it

:59:26.:59:29.

and finally she hit it head-on. Thank you very much, Steve. Steve,

:59:30.:59:30.

Holden. We have got sunshine. If you're

:59:31.:59:45.

living in the eastern and southern areas, you have got blue skies. That

:59:46.:59:51.

was the scene in Norfolk. For many of us, it is grey skies and a dreary

:59:52.:59:58.

start to the day in Shropshire. More rain towards Northern Ireland and

:59:59.:00:02.

into Scotland. The best of the sunshine is across eastern and

:00:03.:00:05.

southern parts of England and that's where temperatures will get up to 22

:00:06.:00:09.

or 23 Celsius, but even further north, 17 Celsius to 19 Celsius. A

:00:10.:00:13.

bit more rain will come into Northern Ireland and Scotland

:00:14.:00:15.

overnight, but elsewhere, it will be dry. There could be one or two

:00:16.:00:19.

patches of fog developing in the far southment but for Wednesday, it's

:00:20.:00:22.

going to get warmer for most of us. There will be some rain across

:00:23.:00:25.

Northern Ireland into Scotland as well. But for most of us, hazy

:00:26.:00:30.

sunshine, maximum temperatures 27 Celsius perhaps in the South East.

:00:31.:00:33.

Even in the far north and west despite the cloudier skies and rain,

:00:34.:00:37.

still here temperatures rather pleasant at 17 or 18 Celsius.

:00:38.:00:45.

it's ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:46.:00:47.

Our top story - will they reach a deal?

:00:48.:00:50.

Theresa May meets the Northern Irish DUP leader today, as they try

:00:51.:00:52.

and broker a deal to help the Prime Minister

:00:53.:00:55.

We will take a look at their anti-abortion stance and speak to

:00:56.:01:04.

those affected by the current legislation.

:01:05.:01:06.

And with Parliament reconvening this afternoon,

:01:07.:01:07.

we've been hearing from members of the public

:01:08.:01:10.

There is not enough leadership from politicians. I have to feel

:01:11.:01:24.

confident you are representing me. You have got to watch what you say,

:01:25.:01:30.

because we pay your wages. This is the code of conduct that you have

:01:31.:01:36.

drawn up, integrity, honesty, empathy, clarity and directness,

:01:37.:01:44.

humility passion! We will be asking all MPs to sign up to it.

:01:45.:01:49.

Also on the programme, almost a year since Labour MP

:01:50.:01:51.

Jo Cox was murdered her family speak about

:01:52.:01:53.

the hole that she's left, and the community reaction

:01:54.:01:55.

That was the classic line, I never met your sister, but I had to do

:01:56.:02:06.

something. My mum and dad, they have met people, they just end up crying,

:02:07.:02:10.

grown men absolutely devastated, and you end up comforting them. Maybe

:02:11.:02:14.

that has attracted from my personal grief, which will come eventually.

:02:15.:02:20.

That is Jo's sister Kim, we will talk to her and Jo's husband before

:02:21.:02:23.

11. Here's Joanna in the BBC newsroom

:02:24.:02:28.

with a summary of today's news. Theresa May will meet with the DUP

:02:29.:02:31.

leader, Arlene Foster, today to thrash out a deal that

:02:32.:02:34.

would see the party prop up With Brexit talks due to begin

:02:35.:02:37.

in less than a week, the EU's chief negotiator,

:02:38.:02:43.

Michel Barnier, has said Britain must not

:02:44.:02:45.

waste time. He's also urged the Government

:02:46.:02:47.

to appoint a negotiating team that is stable,

:02:48.:02:49.

accountable and with a mandate. The new Environment Secretary,

:02:50.:02:54.

Michael Gove, said he wasn't worried

:02:55.:02:55.

about the timetable. We have to make sure we have the

:02:56.:03:09.

right team in place, a Queen's Speech that outlines our sense of

:03:10.:03:13.

direction, and whether a day here there, that doesn't matter to me.

:03:14.:03:17.

What matters is making sure we have the right approach, and the Prime

:03:18.:03:20.

Minister has outlined the right approach. We need to make sure that

:03:21.:03:23.

we arrive at these talks in very good order, and one of the ways we

:03:24.:03:28.

can do so is by having the maximum amount of support for the strategy

:03:29.:03:31.

Theresa May has outlined, which is the right approach.

:03:32.:03:36.

Inflation unexpectedly jumped to its highest level

:03:37.:03:38.

Consumer prices increased by 2.9% compared with a year earlier.

:03:39.:03:41.

It's the biggest increase since June 2013,

:03:42.:03:43.

according to the Office for National Statistics.

:03:44.:03:47.

It said one of the main reasons for the rise was the cost of foreign

:03:48.:03:53.

package holidays for British tourists.

:03:54.:03:55.

In Germany, a policewoman has been seriously wounded

:03:56.:03:58.

after shots were fired at a railway station near Munich.

:03:59.:04:01.

It's understood she was injured when a man grabbed her gun.

:04:02.:04:03.

Police say the man has now been arrested,

:04:04.:04:06.

and that it was not a terrorist incident.

:04:07.:04:11.

has told this programme that it is quitting

:04:12.:04:14.

the Government's Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse.

:04:15.:04:17.

The WhiteFlowers Campaign has said it blames Theresa May,

:04:18.:04:20.

who set up the inquiry when she was Home Secretary,

:04:21.:04:22.

The group, which represents more than a hundred survivors,

:04:23.:04:27.

said it had lost faith in the inquiry

:04:28.:04:29.

and accused it of not being truly independent.

:04:30.:04:39.

brother and sister have been arrested after a man in his 40s was

:04:40.:04:47.

shot dead at a property in Slough. They are being held on suspicion of

:04:48.:04:50.

murder. They are said to have lived in a caravan in woodland near Slough

:04:51.:04:56.

for more than 50 years. The parents of the murdered MP

:04:57.:04:59.

Jo Cox have told this programme that they "will always be broken"

:05:00.:05:02.

after their daughter's death. Friday will mark a year

:05:03.:05:05.

since the Labour MP was killed outside her constituency surgery

:05:06.:05:07.

in West Yorkshire. This weekend, her family

:05:08.:05:09.

is encouraging people to join with friends and neighbours

:05:10.:05:11.

for the Great Get Together, a series of community events

:05:12.:05:13.

being held in Jo's memory. And we'll be talking to Jo's

:05:14.:05:16.

husband Brendan and sister Kim This tweet from Catherine,

:05:17.:05:26.

incredibly moving film with the family of Jo Cox. Chuck tweets you

:05:27.:05:33.

can see where Jo Cox got her decency, humanity and integrity

:05:34.:05:38.

from, what an amazing family. This e-mail from Bill, how brave of the

:05:39.:05:41.

family to speak, it has brought me to tears, and my beloved wife passed

:05:42.:05:47.

away 14 years ago, you never forget. And this tweet from Toby, a truly

:05:48.:05:53.

moving feature on Jo Cox, I think it should permanently be posted on

:05:54.:05:56.

iPlayer. She gave her life to our democracy.

:05:57.:05:59.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning, use #Victorialive.

:06:00.:06:01.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:06:02.:06:05.

Right, let's bring you the latest sport with Katherine.

:06:06.:06:13.

The British and Irish Lions are playing their fourth match

:06:14.:06:18.

They're playing the Highlanders in Dunedin,

:06:19.:06:20.

and it's been an entertaining game.

:06:21.:06:22.

Highlanders scored first Waisake Noholo crashing over,

:06:23.:06:23.

injuring Courtney Lawes in the process.

:06:24.:06:25.

But just a few minutes later, the Lions answered

:06:26.:06:27.

with a try of their own, Jonathan Joseph spotting

:06:28.:06:29.

Tommy Seymour ran it all the way in after this interception.

:06:30.:06:34.

Sam Warburton has scored his first of the tour, and there has been

:06:35.:06:40.

another for Highlanders, tries galore in Dunedin, it is 20-22,

:06:41.:06:45.

Lions just leading, 20 minutes left to go there.

:06:46.:06:49.

A senior coach working with the country's Olympic bobsleigh squad

:06:50.:06:51.

has been accused of racism amid multiple complaints over

:06:52.:06:53.

Confidential documents obtained by the BBC show

:06:54.:06:56.

athletes said their concerns were "of the highest order,

:06:57.:06:58.

mentioning bullying, racism, sexism and discrimination."

:06:59.:07:02.

they were told no disciplinary action would be taken.

:07:03.:07:09.

England's footballers play France in a friendly in Paris tonight.

:07:10.:07:11.

with Tom Heaton and Jack Butland sharing goal-keeping duties.

:07:12.:07:19.

French fans have been asked to join in with God Save The Queen

:07:20.:07:22.

as a mark of respect following the terror attacks.

:07:23.:07:24.

Prime Minister Theresa May and President Emmanuel Macron

:07:25.:07:27.

I was at the match at Wembley and, you know, a very special occasion,

:07:28.:07:41.

and we are very grateful to the French for offering this tribute to

:07:42.:07:47.

England as a country, so it is nice that the history between us doesn't

:07:48.:07:48.

come between us at those moments. And England's World Cup winners,

:07:49.:07:51.

the under-20s team, arrived back in Britain

:07:52.:07:53.

late last night. They flew into Birmingham

:07:54.:07:55.

from South Korea, where they lifted their country's first trophy

:07:56.:07:57.

at a world tournament since 1966. England, as a nation of footballers,

:07:58.:08:10.

young players, is changing, so I think, like you say, it is a big

:08:11.:08:14.

thing to have won the tournament, and it shows we are pushing on and

:08:15.:08:19.

chasing to get to the top. For me personally, to save a penalty in a

:08:20.:08:22.

World Cup final, it is what you dream about as a kid. But for the

:08:23.:08:28.

team, and for what we have achieved, for the country, it is amazing. I

:08:29.:08:33.

hope that these players, they take this experience and really go on and

:08:34.:08:38.

benefit themselves and benefit our senior team in years to come, and

:08:39.:08:42.

fingers crossed that will be the case.

:08:43.:08:44.

Britain's six-time Paralympic champion David Weir

:08:45.:08:46.

will compete in a track event for the final time

:08:47.:08:48.

in next month's Anniversary Games in London.

:08:49.:08:50.

He won the London Marathon for the seventh time in April.

:08:51.:08:54.

In January, Weir, who won four gold medals at London 2012

:08:55.:08:57.

said he would never compete for Britain again

:08:58.:09:00.

And you will be able to hear our interview with David Weir on the BBC

:09:01.:09:12.

News Channel throughout the day, but that is all the sport for now. Back

:09:13.:09:14.

to you, Victoria. Good morning! "I got us into this mess

:09:15.:09:17.

and I'll get us out of it." Theresa May's words to her own

:09:18.:09:20.

MPs yesterday, reportedly showing some of the humility

:09:21.:09:22.

they'd wanted from her. Journalists weren't invited

:09:23.:09:24.

to the meeting. But several MPs have reported

:09:25.:09:25.

the following as taking place. The Prime Minister told her Tory MPs

:09:26.:09:32.

she'll remain leader She pledged that the party

:09:33.:09:34.

would help colleagues who lost their seats, some of whom

:09:35.:09:42.

are in financial difficulties, and when talking about concerns

:09:43.:09:46.

that government policy could be affected

:09:47.:09:48.

by the DUP's views on gay rights, she reportedly said,

:09:49.:09:50.

"LGB...what's the rest of it?" lesbian, gay, bisexual

:09:51.:09:56.

and transgender. the PM needs to to a deal

:09:57.:10:00.

with to stay on in government. Let's talk now to two MPs

:10:01.:10:09.

who were at the meeting, Oliver Letwin, who's the

:10:10.:10:11.

Conservative MP for West Dorset, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, the

:10:12.:10:15.

Conservative MP for the Cotswolds, and an executive member

:10:16.:10:17.

of the 1922 Committee, which is the group of Conservative

:10:18.:10:19.

MPs Theresa May may with yesterday, and in a moment, we'll speak

:10:20.:10:22.

to Lord Andrew Turnbull, who was a top civil servant under

:10:23.:10:26.

three different Prime Ministers Welcome, all of you, thank you very

:10:27.:10:39.

much for talking to us. Oliver Letwin, how many times did Theresa

:10:40.:10:42.

May apologise to you for throwing away the Conservative majority in

:10:43.:10:50.

that election? Not many! How many? Once, twice? I genuinely have no

:10:51.:10:54.

idea! The meeting was not about that. The meeting was about a pretty

:10:55.:10:59.

unanimous view across the whole room of support for what she was doing,

:11:00.:11:05.

and for the need to carry on, and I thought what was really remarkable

:11:06.:11:10.

was the degree of unanimity. How many times did she apologise? I

:11:11.:11:15.

don't think... I can't honestly remember, but as Oliver said, that

:11:16.:11:20.

is not really the issue. But did she apologise? I am just interested. She

:11:21.:11:25.

apologise to colleagues who lost their seats, she was humble about

:11:26.:11:29.

that. But as Oliver says, there was a remarkable degree of unanimity

:11:30.:11:34.

around the room, as do supporting her. Sure. Issue going to apologise

:11:35.:11:41.

to voters for calling an election that she did not need to that has

:11:42.:11:47.

cost ?130 million? Well, she felt that she needed her own mandate to

:11:48.:11:50.

negotiate these Brexit talks. That was a view at the time. With

:11:51.:11:55.

hindsight, she might have taken a different view. But we are where we

:11:56.:11:59.

are, and we have to go on governing the country with the Parliamentary

:12:00.:12:04.

arithmetic that we have. Oliver Letwin, your Conservative colleague

:12:05.:12:06.

Heidi Elin said she saw a very humble woman in Mrs May. Do you

:12:07.:12:11.

think the rest of the country is going to see her humble side at some

:12:12.:12:15.

point? I would not describe her as humble, as you said, she apologised,

:12:16.:12:25.

she let us in on the feelings that she had about what had happened, but

:12:26.:12:31.

I don't think it is a question of humble or otherwise. I think it is a

:12:32.:12:35.

question of her ability at a time when our country faces significant

:12:36.:12:40.

challenges to manage the economy soundly and come of all of this in a

:12:41.:12:45.

good condition. That is what matters to our fellow citizens, not the

:12:46.:12:49.

political bits and bobs, what happens to the country. I think what

:12:50.:12:54.

cheap is weighed and all of us of is that she is capable of doing that,

:12:55.:12:58.

and that is where we need to be. -- I think what she persuaded all of us

:12:59.:13:05.

of. So she has two years to see through the negotiations, then she

:13:06.:13:09.

hands over to whoever head of the next general election? It depends on

:13:10.:13:13.

a number of factors, how the relationship with the DUP works out,

:13:14.:13:16.

and I think it depends on the Conservative Party itself. If the

:13:17.:13:19.

Conservative Party itself starts going to war with one another, then

:13:20.:13:23.

the period will be shorter rather than longer. But what you can say is

:13:24.:13:27.

that she's not going to fight the next general election as leader of

:13:28.:13:32.

the Conservative Party? Well, we don't know that yet. I think it is

:13:33.:13:36.

far too soon to say that. You think she could? With that majority? She

:13:37.:13:42.

could, it depends how the thing works out. If the Brexit negotiation

:13:43.:13:47.

went incredibly well and she was crowned as having done an incredibly

:13:48.:13:50.

good deal, I think you might find that the holes and tuition would

:13:51.:13:56.

change. I entirely agree about that, Victoria, you will recognise the

:13:57.:14:01.

slogan that a week is a long time in politics. Two years, 104 weeks, is a

:14:02.:14:07.

very long time in politics, and none of us have the slightest idea what

:14:08.:14:10.

will happen. The important thing is to focus on those years, getting to

:14:11.:14:14.

a successful conclusion on Brexit, and then the whole nation will be in

:14:15.:14:19.

a different position. Do you agree with your colleague that she could

:14:20.:14:23.

be in charge for less than two years, depending on what happens?

:14:24.:14:27.

Prime Ministers are in charge on the basis of delivering for the country,

:14:28.:14:32.

I am confident she will deliver, and I'm confident she will be in charge

:14:33.:14:35.

throughout that period, and I think it is altogether likely she will

:14:36.:14:40.

fight the next election as well. But we take that step-by-step, we have

:14:41.:14:44.

to lock in the DUP, deliver on Brexit and the economy, regain the

:14:45.:14:49.

confidence of electors, many of whom voted for us, many of whom did not,

:14:50.:14:55.

and that is what politics is about. Lord Turnbull, formerly a top civil

:14:56.:15:00.

servant and three Prime Ministers, you have called for Theresa May to

:15:01.:15:05.

stand aside - that would not help Britain's Brexit negotiations. Well,

:15:06.:15:09.

I don't think this coalition can last five years. You haven't even

:15:10.:15:16.

given it a day! I did not say how soon, there is a difference between

:15:17.:15:19.

when she goes and makes it clear that she is going to go, the Ed

:15:20.:15:23.

Miliband time table - I think we will find that this coalition needs

:15:24.:15:29.

to be settled in, get past the Queen's Speech to demonstrate that

:15:30.:15:34.

it can win votes, and then people will look at what it can achieve.

:15:35.:15:40.

Its problem is that it will be, apart from the Brexit negotiators, a

:15:41.:15:43.

near do nothing parliament. It has no strength to take any of the

:15:44.:15:48.

measures that it wants to take, and that will be incredibly frustrating.

:15:49.:15:52.

I don't think she can be the person who fights the next election. The

:15:53.:15:59.

precedents, we have had three elections which were inconclusive,

:16:00.:16:05.

1951, 1964 and 1974, and then another election shortly thereafter.

:16:06.:16:08.

In each case, the election thereafter was won by the side that

:16:09.:16:12.

had the momentum. Although Labour didn't get more

:16:13.:16:20.

seats they definitely had the momentum. So that's the danger. Do

:16:21.:16:25.

the Conservatives want to fight that election with someone who was a very

:16:26.:16:31.

poor cam pamer and handled it so badly or do they want someone new?

:16:32.:16:35.

If they want someone new they have got to get that person in, in time

:16:36.:16:41.

for them to settle in, establish some record and when you start

:16:42.:16:48.

working you find this change needs to be made before two years. There

:16:49.:16:54.

is another precedent here which is in 2010 when as you know I was arbli

:16:55.:17:00.

involved in negotiating an agreement with the Liberal Democrats, but lots

:17:01.:17:04.

of other people told me and people reported in the press that this

:17:05.:17:07.

couldn't possibly last. It lasted the whole course of the Parliament.

:17:08.:17:10.

That Government achieved a great deal and David Cameron went on to

:17:11.:17:14.

win a general election with an outright majority thereafter. So

:17:15.:17:17.

there are conflicting precedents here and actually, I don't think

:17:18.:17:22.

that the Conservative Party or those who are commenting on these matters

:17:23.:17:26.

should be focussing on the question of election victory or otherwise in

:17:27.:17:33.

2022. This nation faces an obsolutely critical juncture in its

:17:34.:17:36.

whole history and who we should be focussing on is getting through that

:17:37.:17:40.

and doing the next two years successfully for all of us and that,

:17:41.:17:44.

I think, that came out of the meeting of the 1922 the Conservative

:17:45.:17:48.

Party in Parliament, wherever else, is focussed on delivering a good

:17:49.:17:53.

Brexit outcome and a sound economy as the background to that in the

:17:54.:17:56.

nation's interests and that's what we should be doing. What you're

:17:57.:18:01.

papering over Oliver is the massive division in view within the

:18:02.:18:04.

Conservative Party. This is where the biggest fault line of politics

:18:05.:18:12.

is. Do they want a hard Brexit which prioritises control over the

:18:13.:18:17.

movement of people or do they want a Brexit which prioritises trade?

:18:18.:18:20.

Until you've settled that, I don't see how you can get to a successful

:18:21.:18:27.

budget negotiation. Whilst you're here briefly, voters have been

:18:28.:18:30.

drawing up on our programme today a code of conduct for MPs as MPs go

:18:31.:18:33.

back to Westminster after the election. The voters have suggested

:18:34.:18:39.

these five points on how they'd like MPs to behave. Number one,

:18:40.:18:44.

integrity, number two, empathy, number three, clarity and directness

:18:45.:18:47.

and four humility, number five passion. Is there any you would

:18:48.:18:53.

disagree. You raised your eyebrows at passion, Jeffrey Clifton-Brown? A

:18:54.:18:56.

politician always has got to have passion and the two really important

:18:57.:19:02.

things is next week we start the complicated Brexit negotiations. The

:19:03.:19:06.

most important event of this country since the Second World War and the

:19:07.:19:09.

Conservative Party will unite around Theresa May because the alternative

:19:10.:19:13.

of Jeremy Corbyn is much worse to every Conservative member of

:19:14.:19:15.

Parliament and that's why they'll unite. Thank you all. Thank you very

:19:16.:19:19.

much. Thank you for coming on the programme.

:19:20.:19:33.

Joims Brokenshire says he's confident a deal between the

:19:34.:19:36.

Conservatives and the DUP will be reached today. He has been speaking

:19:37.:19:40.

to the BBC in the past half an hour. I'm sure that will be a matter of

:19:41.:19:46.

discussion for them and I'm sure we will have more details during the

:19:47.:19:49.

course of the day, but the thing to stress is that the work that I do as

:19:50.:19:53.

Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is separate. That we are

:19:54.:19:57.

very clear on the work that I was doing yesterday afternoon and

:19:58.:20:00.

evening around the devolution settlements and ensuring that we get

:20:01.:20:04.

devolved Government back and that is something that as a Government we

:20:05.:20:08.

hold fast to on ensuring that our duties to serve Northern Ireland

:20:09.:20:13.

well, to adhere to our responsibilities under the Belfast

:20:14.:20:16.

Agreement, absolutely is at the core of what we are as a Government, and

:20:17.:20:21.

will certainly guide our actions into the future.

:20:22.:20:23.

INAUDIBLE Well,ual' confident. I think the

:20:24.:20:28.

discussions thus far have been positive, but the leader of the DUP

:20:29.:20:31.

is seeing the Prime Minister later today for further discussions around

:20:32.:20:34.

the agreement. We want to see conclusions so that we can get on

:20:35.:20:38.

with acting in the best interests of our country and actually getting on

:20:39.:20:42.

with the job. James Brokenshire.

:20:43.:20:47.

The sister and husband of Jo Cox will be

:20:48.:20:53.

joining us to reflect on her life and legacy almost a year

:20:54.:20:56.

Theresa May has failed to protect survivors

:20:57.:21:07.

of historical child sex abuse, that's according to another group

:21:08.:21:10.

which this morning is exclusively announcing on this programme that

:21:11.:21:13.

it's quitting the Government's independent inquiry.

:21:14.:21:20.

The independent inquiry into child sexual abuse

:21:21.:21:24.

in England and Wales was set-up by Theresa May during her

:21:25.:21:27.

It aimed to investigate claims of sexual abuse

:21:28.:21:30.

against local authorities, religious organisations,

:21:31.:21:31.

the Armed Forces and public and private institutions

:21:32.:21:33.

and to "expose failures and learn the lessons" from the past.

:21:34.:21:38.

But it has been dogged by controversy

:21:39.:21:39.

with many key victims groups quitting saying they've lost faith

:21:40.:21:42.

in it and accusing the inquiry of not being truly independent.

:21:43.:21:46.

Now, another group which represents more than 100 survivors,

:21:47.:21:48.

has told this programme that they share the same concerns.

:21:49.:21:53.

Let's talk now to Phil Frampton from the Survivors of Organised

:21:54.:21:55.

and Institutional Abuse, part of the White Flowers Campaign.

:21:56.:21:59.

They have withdrawn from the inquiry. Thank you for talking to

:22:00.:22:06.

us. Good morning, Victoria. Tell us why you're withdrawing? For three

:22:07.:22:12.

years, White Flowers and thousands of survivors have fought for justice

:22:13.:22:19.

on this inquiry and we just don't believe anymore that it's aim is to

:22:20.:22:24.

deliver justice. It's aim is to be investigative, it looks more like a

:22:25.:22:28.

report writing exercise now, but when it was set-up, we stood by this

:22:29.:22:33.

inquiry for three years. We've been critical, but we pointed out at the

:22:34.:22:38.

beginning that it was riddled with conflicts of interest and when

:22:39.:22:41.

you've got conflicts of interest and you're looking at one of the darkest

:22:42.:22:46.

episodes in British history then, people with conflicts of interest

:22:47.:22:50.

will never shine the torch into the dark corners because they're too

:22:51.:22:53.

frightened that they will find themselves or their friends there

:22:54.:22:56.

and that's really what we found. First of all, the Home Office were

:22:57.:23:02.

put in charge. Prior to 1970, the Home Office had responsibility for

:23:03.:23:06.

all of London's children's homes plus the hundreds of children's

:23:07.:23:10.

homes, approved schools and so forth across the country and yet initially

:23:11.:23:16.

they were actually kept out of the abuse before 1970, was kept out. The

:23:17.:23:20.

Home Office is also responsible for the police. It's one of the failing

:23:21.:23:25.

institutions in relation to child abuse so far as many survivors are

:23:26.:23:29.

concerned yet they are at the heart of the inquiry. Their secondments

:23:30.:23:36.

are running the inquiry now. It beggars belief and at the same time,

:23:37.:23:42.

they have put as the Shirley Oaks survivors pointed out, they put an

:23:43.:23:48.

executive social worker in charge of the inquiry, they may have good

:23:49.:23:51.

interests, but also conflicts of interests there in the sense that

:23:52.:23:55.

they are the people who again, many of those social workers, who

:23:56.:23:59.

survivors believe failed them. So you simply don't trust it hence your

:24:00.:24:04.

withdrawal but then how do you find out, how do you get to the bottom of

:24:05.:24:10.

alleged historical abuse in all these institutions? This inquiry is

:24:11.:24:15.

not to get to the bottom of that alleged abuse. That's the issue. We

:24:16.:24:20.

don't feel it's, that its job. It's almost like a paper exercise now,

:24:21.:24:24.

studying reports. So what do you want then? Well, what we want is a

:24:25.:24:29.

truly investigative inquiry. What we needed was a truly investigative

:24:30.:24:33.

inquiry. So are you saying scrap this and start again? No, it can be,

:24:34.:24:38.

it's up to the inquiry to decide, but there are other ways of doing it

:24:39.:24:43.

rather than using this inquiry. This inquiry, many survivors still have

:24:44.:24:50.

some hope in and I, you know, I feel for them really, but it's a question

:24:51.:24:54.

of the inquiry could change itself overnight, if Theresa May wanted,

:24:55.:24:58.

but sadly, I think Theresa May's shown she is more interested in her

:24:59.:25:03.

own personal appearance than she is in how in substance, in real

:25:04.:25:07.

substance. Theresa May said this inquiry would have, that survivors

:25:08.:25:11.

would be at the heart of this inquiry and the truth is survivors

:25:12.:25:14.

are on the very margins of this inquiry. Our representatives went to

:25:15.:25:20.

a seminar, an official seminar of the inquiry and we're told to sit at

:25:21.:25:25.

the back and to keep quiet and handed post-it notes and told if we

:25:26.:25:28.

want to ask a question then we should write them on there and let

:25:29.:25:32.

Professor Jay answer if she has got time. How is that survivors being at

:25:33.:25:34.

the heart of an inquiry? We obviously asked the independent

:25:35.:25:38.

inquiry into child sexual abuse They said no, but in a statement

:25:39.:25:40.

told us, "Whilst we regret the decision by Survivors

:25:41.:25:47.

of Organised Institutional Abuse to withdraw from the inquiry,

:25:48.:25:49.

we acknowledge their decision and would like to reassure

:25:50.:25:51.

all victims and survivors that the important work

:25:52.:25:53.

of the inquiry including the accountability and reparations

:25:54.:25:58.

investigation that SOIA The inquiry would welcome them back

:25:59.:25:59.

should they decide they wish Can I just say a lot of survivors,

:26:00.:26:16.

thousands of survivors have put huge emotional capital into this inquiry

:26:17.:26:24.

over the last three years. The core participants may have to wait three

:26:25.:26:28.

or four years time. Not being able to move on unless they can get

:26:29.:26:31.

support from the inquiry, but the inquiry has said this they will not

:26:32.:26:38.

give that support until those cases go to, are considered and therefore,

:26:39.:26:43.

it could be four years more. Survivors are dropping out of the

:26:44.:26:48.

inquiry at the moment because they can't afford to leave their lives

:26:49.:26:52.

and their emotions on hold. That, for me, is callous and cruel. It's

:26:53.:26:58.

callous, cruel and incompetent if you're running a serious inquiry

:26:59.:27:03.

over such psychological issues. OK, thank you very much, Phil. Thank

:27:04.:27:07.

you, Phil Frampton from the survivors of organised and

:27:08.:27:07.

institutional abuse. The sister

:27:08.:27:11.

and husband of Jo Cox will be joining us to reflect on her life

:27:12.:27:16.

and legacy almost a year With the news, here's Joanna

:27:17.:27:25.

in the BBC Newsroom. Theresa May is meeting with the DUP

:27:26.:27:36.

leader, Arlene Foster, today to thrash out a deal that

:27:37.:27:39.

would see the party prop up With Brexit talks due to begin

:27:40.:27:42.

in less than a week, the EU's chief negotiator,

:27:43.:27:45.

Michel Barnier, has said Britain He's also urged the Government

:27:46.:27:48.

to appoint a negotiating team that is stable,

:27:49.:27:51.

accountable and with a mandate. Inflation unexpectedly jumped

:27:52.:27:53.

to its highest level Consumer prices increased by 2.9%

:27:54.:27:55.

compared with a year earlier, it is the biggest increase since

:27:56.:28:07.

June 2013,according to the Office It said one of the main reasons

:28:08.:28:10.

for the rise was the cost of foreign package holidays

:28:11.:28:17.

for British tourists. The European Court of Human Rights

:28:18.:28:26.

will rule on whether doctors treating Charlie Gard can turn off

:28:27.:28:29.

his life support. Last week the UK's Supreme Court agreed with specialist

:28:30.:28:32.

doctors that he should receive palliative care instead.

:28:33.:28:36.

A woman has been charged with murder, after a man was hit

:28:37.:28:39.

Emergency crews were called to Victoria Station on Sunday

:28:40.:28:43.

evening, but were unable to save him.

:28:44.:28:46.

Charrissa Loren Brown-Wellington, who is 31, will appear

:28:47.:28:50.

That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC

:28:51.:28:54.

Highlanders have snatched a win over the British and Irish Lions

:28:55.:29:05.

The Lions gave away a penalty with just six

:29:06.:29:08.

minutes left on the clock and that was enough to put

:29:09.:29:11.

the South Island side just one point ahead,

:29:12.:29:14.

a lead they held onto until the final whistle.

:29:15.:29:20.

A senior coach working with the country's Olympic bobsleigh

:29:21.:29:23.

squad has been accused of racism amid multiple complaints of a "toxic

:29:24.:29:26.

England's footballers play France in a friendly in Paris tonight.

:29:27.:29:32.

French fans are expected to join in with God Save The Queen

:29:33.:29:35.

as a mark of respect following the terror attacks.

:29:36.:29:37.

Prime Minister Theresa May and President Emmanuel

:29:38.:29:39.

Britain's six-time Paralympic champion David Weir will compete

:29:40.:29:47.

in a track event for the final time in next month's

:29:48.:29:49.

He won the London Marathon for the seventh time in April.

:29:50.:29:55.

That's all the sport. Back to you Victoria. Thank you very much.

:29:56.:30:03.

Friday marks the first anniversary of the death of Labour MP Jo Cox,

:30:04.:30:05.

who was killed in Birstall, outside her constituency surgery.

:30:06.:30:08.

Her senseless killing sent shockwaves

:30:09.:30:09.

around the world but united the country in grief.

:30:10.:30:12.

A year on, and her family are determined to continue her legacy.

:30:13.:30:15.

This weekend, on the first anniversary of her death,

:30:16.:30:17.

they're encouraging people to join together with neighbours,

:30:18.:30:20.

friends and their local community at events in her memory.

:30:21.:30:26.

In a moment, we'll speak to Jo's husband Brendan

:30:27.:30:28.

and her sister, Kim Leadbeater, but first let's hear Jo's parents

:30:29.:30:31.

remembering the moment they learnt she'd died.

:30:32.:30:45.

We'd just sat down about five minutes,

:30:46.:30:47.

And he just said, Jo's been shot, I think.

:30:48.:30:52.

And we jumped in the car, I remember I was jumping in the car,

:30:53.:31:01.

I don't know how we managed to get there.

:31:02.:31:07.

People are shot and recover, et cetera, et cetera.

:31:08.:31:25.

So we didn't know at that time. I think we knew.

:31:26.:31:28.

I think I did. I didn't know.

:31:29.:31:32.

But you see these things on the television where the doctor,

:31:33.:31:35.

in this case it was a police inspector,

:31:36.:31:37.

comes into the room and he has to tell you.

:31:38.:31:40.

In fact, he doesn't have to tell you.

:31:41.:31:43.

You can see by his expression.

:31:44.:31:45.

And he said, "I'm sorry to say she didn't make it."

:31:46.:31:56.

because there's a piece missing.

:31:57.:32:00.

The low times for us are when we turn the television

:32:01.:32:03.

on and see terrorist acts - Westminster Bridge, Manchester -

:32:04.:32:05.

because that's when it brings everything back.

:32:06.:32:08.

For me, the ambulances, the sirens,

:32:09.:32:10.

But we also think about the people who have lost loved ones,

:32:11.:32:21.

and we know what they are actually just going through.

:32:22.:32:26.

And unfortunately they don't, as yet.

:32:27.:32:37.

Going forward, build on the children, the grandchildren.

:32:38.:32:40.

Because you're right, it won't go away.

:32:41.:32:47.

# Looking back, I could have played differently... #

:32:48.:33:17.

More than one person came up to me after the funeral,

:33:18.:33:20.

and after Kim talked in Birstall marketplace,

:33:21.:33:24.

and said, "You've got not one but two marvellous daughters."

:33:25.:33:28.

on the television et cetera, making speeches."

:33:29.:33:36.

because I can't separate the two and never would.

:33:37.:33:55.

Talking to us now are Kim Ledbeater and Brendan Cox, Jo's husband.

:33:56.:34:01.

Kim, Jo's sister. Hello. Hi. How are you? I found it very hard to watch

:34:02.:34:14.

that film. Kim, how are you? OK, I think we are tired, extremely busy,

:34:15.:34:18.

but we at to demand that we will get through the next couple of weeks, as

:34:19.:34:23.

Jo would want us two. Not to say it will not be very difficult at times,

:34:24.:34:29.

but we will get there. You talk in the book, Brendan, you talk about

:34:30.:34:35.

the Jo that you knew. I want you both to tell our audience what she

:34:36.:34:40.

was like, because they will not know that much about. Yeah, you can see

:34:41.:34:47.

it in some of that footage, huge energy and enthusiasm, zest for

:34:48.:34:50.

life. She threw herself everything from campaigning to being a mum, to

:34:51.:34:58.

being part of our community, and she just, yeah, as well as that energy,

:34:59.:35:03.

she had an empathy, I know it is on the board! But I talked about it

:35:04.:35:07.

before, and just that sends of ability to feel how people are

:35:08.:35:13.

feeling and empathise with people, whether you were an older person who

:35:14.:35:17.

hadn't seen anybody for a week, who lived in her constituency, or a

:35:18.:35:22.

family from Syria fleeing the conflict there, that supreme ability

:35:23.:35:26.

to empathise and that energy which, for me, which summarises her. Jo was

:35:27.:35:32.

an extremely positive person, she had values that, you know, we can

:35:33.:35:39.

probably all learn from, but if you see my parents speaking, we are glad

:35:40.:35:43.

to have full people. We are not going to be beaten, we always trying

:35:44.:35:47.

to find the positive and good in things. Jo saw the good in

:35:48.:35:50.

everything and everyone, and you will struggle to find anyone who did

:35:51.:35:55.

not like it. You might disagree and debate, fine, but I don't think I've

:35:56.:35:59.

ever met anybody who didn't like. And she was also very annoying! She

:36:00.:36:06.

was not perfect! Everyone is a bit annoying at some point. She was late

:36:07.:36:11.

for everything, forget everybody's birthdays! Unbelievably forgetful.

:36:12.:36:18.

When Jo and I were getting engaged, one of the stories I tell in the

:36:19.:36:23.

book, we went on a cycling holiday, and she forgot her bike. A cycling

:36:24.:36:28.

holiday, how do you forget your bike?! So incredibly annoying, but

:36:29.:36:33.

looking back now, those things are, you know, what made her her. She

:36:34.:36:38.

wasn't a saint, she wasn't perfect, but she was somebody, as we have

:36:39.:36:42.

said, that had this positivity, empathy, a zest for life. Even when

:36:43.:36:49.

she was forgetting her bike, that shone through. Let me read you a

:36:50.:36:53.

couple of messages, so many of these, these are representative of

:36:54.:36:57.

all of them. Kim says, my heartfelt love to Brendan, Kim and all Jo's

:36:58.:37:04.

family, such a heartbreaking loss, what a beautiful legacy Jo left, her

:37:05.:37:08.

passing is not in vain, I have ordered your book, big love to you

:37:09.:37:12.

all. Sophia says, Jo Cox was an inspiration in life and in death,

:37:13.:37:16.

thank you, Jo, despite the dark, horrid early days, your mission

:37:17.:37:24.

lives on, thank you for giving us hope. I don't know if you take

:37:25.:37:28.

comfort in kind words from strangers, do you? Absolutely, it is

:37:29.:37:31.

one of the things that has got us through. For me and mum and dad, the

:37:32.:37:38.

support that has been shown, not just from people we know, but total

:37:39.:37:41.

strangers across the country and across the world, because even if

:37:42.:37:46.

you didn't know Jo, you could see what she stood for, so you might not

:37:47.:37:50.

miss on a personal level in the way we do, but you will see what a loss

:37:51.:37:58.

it is, someone who had those values, so that support has been, yeah,

:37:59.:38:03.

phenomenal. And for often when you go through a loss, you feel very

:38:04.:38:11.

isolated, because everyone else's lives take on as normal. And with

:38:12.:38:17.

this, they could see that other people were feeling the pain that

:38:18.:38:20.

they were feeling, not the same size or scale intensity, but I remember,

:38:21.:38:30.

on the way to the funeral, in the car, Cuillin turned to me, thousands

:38:31.:38:36.

of people and, throwing flowers, and Cuillin said I know that people love

:38:37.:38:40.

money, but I didn't know this many people did. -- loved Mummy. So that

:38:41.:38:48.

compassion, and it is more important, because you can imagine,

:38:49.:38:52.

if this happens at such a formative stage of your life, your view of

:38:53.:38:57.

life and our country could end up being very dark, but they don't have

:38:58.:39:01.

that at all, because of that compassion and kindness, they are

:39:02.:39:05.

only inform six, but they have a very optimistic and enthusiastic

:39:06.:39:09.

view of life. That is testament to you, isn't it? Brendan has been

:39:10.:39:17.

amazing, his priority has been the children since then, the way that

:39:18.:39:21.

they are coping, not just coping, thriving, that is down to how he has

:39:22.:39:27.

done his job. Not just me, Jo and I often talked about how the first

:39:28.:39:30.

three years were critical for kids in terms of the way their brains

:39:31.:39:34.

develop, the way they get their sense of cells, so they have a hell

:39:35.:39:37.

of a lot of Jo in them, and the thing that has got me through is the

:39:38.:39:43.

family, incredibly close family, both on Jo's side and the mine, and

:39:44.:39:48.

then the community. And that is, for us, such a big part of Jo's

:39:49.:39:54.

politics, she wasn't an ideological politician who got her politics from

:39:55.:39:59.

textbooks. She got her politics particularly from her home life in

:40:00.:40:02.

Batley, from her grandad, who was a postman in Batley, and the sense

:40:03.:40:07.

that she got from him of how important it was to know your

:40:08.:40:11.

neighbours, and how much she valued that. So that became a big part of

:40:12.:40:16.

her life and her politics, but now, this morning, I had to get up early

:40:17.:40:20.

to do an interview, and very kindly the neighbours through the tips...

:40:21.:40:28.

They put them on the boat! They are as happy as Larry, and that is

:40:29.:40:34.

hugely valuable. You both mentioned community, but there is the global

:40:35.:40:39.

community, you have had contact from people all over the world, including

:40:40.:40:45.

President Obama. Yeah! And Gordon Brown, who she used to work for,

:40:46.:40:50.

saying, is it all right if President Obama gives you a call? I was

:40:51.:40:56.

speaking to Gordon, and he said, yeah, is it OK if he gets in touch,

:40:57.:41:00.

and I thought he might send a card or something, which I thought was

:41:01.:41:04.

incredible. And my phone rang and it was the weirdest, like out of a bad

:41:05.:41:10.

American film, when they say, can we transfer you to Air Force One?

:41:11.:41:14.

Really? I thought it was maybe taking the make. But it would have

:41:15.:41:20.

been a strange time to do it. He invited us to go over and see him,

:41:21.:41:25.

which was an incredible experience, and amazing for the kids, even

:41:26.:41:27.

though they were then three and five. They got a hell of a lot from

:41:28.:41:36.

it, and Cuillin is obsessed with history, I'd tell you about the

:41:37.:41:39.

Second World War, which I don't know and have about! I had been telling

:41:40.:41:43.

him about the history of America, what little I know about it, and the

:41:44.:41:47.

first thing he said when he got into the room was, I thought the British

:41:48.:41:52.

burned the White House down, the most embarrassing thing you could

:41:53.:41:55.

possibly say! The president said it was much better now that they had

:41:56.:42:02.

rebuilt it. So he was thankful! Tim, you can't bring Jo back, what can

:42:03.:42:07.

you do? I think, for me, accepting that we cannot change what has

:42:08.:42:12.

happened. Whilst it is buried, that is the only way to move forward so

:42:13.:42:17.

three things I want to do. That whilst it is very difficult. I want

:42:18.:42:22.

to scoop the kids up in love, make sure they know how amazing the mum

:42:23.:42:26.

was, how much she loved them, that is the top priority. Second thing

:42:27.:42:31.

is, remember how lucky we were to have Jo, and I was so lucky, we were

:42:32.:42:40.

friends first and foremost, and we will always have those memories. The

:42:41.:42:43.

third thing is to create some kind of legacy, which Brendan is doing

:42:44.:42:51.

amazingly, and I would like to be part of that. I don't now how that

:42:52.:42:55.

would work in the future, but what resonates with me is that Jo should

:42:56.:43:00.

have been alive for at least another 40 years, and the work she would

:43:01.:43:04.

have done in that 40 years, what you would have achieved to do things,

:43:05.:43:11.

and I feel a bit of a moral duty to do something positive and help

:43:12.:43:16.

people, like Jo would have done. Thank you both very much, thank you

:43:17.:43:20.

for talking to us. The book is out today, it is called Jo Cox: More In

:43:21.:43:27.

Common. All the profits are going to the foundation which is taking

:43:28.:43:32.

forward her work. This weekend is the Great Get Together, which we

:43:33.:43:34.

have been putting together for what feels like a long time now excited

:43:35.:43:39.

is a simple idea, asking people to get together with their neighbours,

:43:40.:43:42.

share food, celebrate all the things we have in common. Jo talked about

:43:43.:43:47.

that a lot, the killing was designed to divide us, and we think the best

:43:48.:43:50.

possible response is a weekend to bring the country back together

:43:51.:43:54.

again, which we do need. And you have got your address at the ready!

:43:55.:43:58.

Get together and have a good weekend. Thank you both, thank you.

:43:59.:44:02.

A court ruling is due this month in Northern Ireland

:44:03.:44:05.

over the strict abortion laws there.

:44:06.:44:06.

Campaigners say the result has been made all the more significant

:44:07.:44:09.

Unlike the rest of the UK, abortion is illegal

:44:10.:44:12.

in almost all circumstances in Northern Ireland.

:44:13.:44:15.

Campaigners hope the ruling will be a step towards changing the law

:44:16.:44:18.

in cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality.

:44:19.:44:25.

Hi. I'm Sarah. Nice to meet you. Come on in. Thank you. This is my

:44:26.:44:51.

mum, Jane. Hi Jane. Nice to meet you. It was just a few weeks after

:44:52.:44:59.

Sarah Yeates' wedding that she found out she was pregnant. It was all

:45:00.:45:03.

planned and she was delighted. Everyone talked about the 3D scan

:45:04.:45:08.

and we wanted to see the baby in 3D. It was private. It wasn't at our

:45:09.:45:14.

hospital. They put the baby on the scroon. Feet, legs, oh you're having

:45:15.:45:21.

a wee girl the when she got to the baby's head, there was nothing from

:45:22.:45:25.

above the baby's eyes basically. There was no skull or brain

:45:26.:45:32.

formation. Sarah's baby had a condition which occurs in six in

:45:33.:45:35.

every 10,000 births. There is no treatment. And babies with it die

:45:36.:45:40.

before they're born or shortly after birth. This is your scan that you

:45:41.:45:44.

got? Yes, the skull wasn't formed. There was nothing above that. It

:45:45.:45:47.

should be round and it's not. So the baby wasn't going to be able to

:45:48.:45:53.

survive as soon as the baby was cut from me, when the umbilical cord was

:45:54.:45:57.

cut that's when the baby would have passed away. When I realised what,

:45:58.:46:07.

the baby wasn't going to survive and how bad the condition was, I thought

:46:08.:46:12.

that I couldn't continue on for nine months and people asking me when you

:46:13.:46:15.

were due, was your nursery set-up? Did you know what you were having? I

:46:16.:46:20.

just did not have the baby at the end of it, I just felt like I

:46:21.:46:27.

couldn't go through with that. We said we wanted a medical termination

:46:28.:46:32.

and that's what it is. And they said sorry, we can't help you and we were

:46:33.:46:35.

absolutely shocked. We were like, what do you mean you can't help?

:46:36.:46:39.

They said, sorry, but with the law here, we can't help you. You would

:46:40.:46:46.

have to go across the water. Unlike the rest of the UK, abortion is

:46:47.:46:51.

illegal here in Northern Ireland in almost all circumstances. That meant

:46:52.:46:57.

that at 21 weeks pregnant Sarah had to travel to London to have her

:46:58.:47:00.

abortion. It is that experience that means she is involved in this court

:47:01.:47:04.

case. Halfs the experience like? Making that journey, going all that

:47:05.:47:08.

way? Awful. I should have been at home with my family round me, my

:47:09.:47:14.

friends supporting me. Sarah started her fight in court with the judicial

:47:15.:47:21.

review two years ago. In 2015, the Northern Ireland Human Rights

:47:22.:47:24.

Commission brought the case to extend the grounds for abortion. The

:47:25.:47:28.

judge in the case ruled that women, who were victims of rape or incest,

:47:29.:47:35.

and in cases of foetal abnormality should be allowed abortions, but the

:47:36.:47:41.

ruling was appealed and campaigners are awaiting for a decision from the

:47:42.:47:46.

Appeal Court. Sarah is being backed by Amnesty International. Well nrm's

:47:47.:47:53.

laws date back to 1861 and unlike in the rest of the UK the 1967 Act

:47:54.:47:57.

doesn't apply in Northern Ireland. So it means that with the exception

:47:58.:48:03.

of where a woman's life and her long-term physical and mental health

:48:04.:48:07.

are at risk, abortion is illegal in every other circumstance. So, our

:48:08.:48:11.

laws force women who have been ramd, they force girls who are victims of

:48:12.:48:17.

incest to travel to access abortion services. Amnesty say the likely

:48:18.:48:22.

Conservative DUP deal makes this case even more important. They say

:48:23.:48:26.

that Northern Ireland's politicians, particularly the DUP, have failed to

:48:27.:48:30.

deliver abortion reform and that's why they have to take the fight to

:48:31.:48:34.

court. What's the result you're looking for from this court case?

:48:35.:48:38.

With this case specifically we want the court to find that our laws, not

:48:39.:48:46.

only breach a woman's right to privacy, but our laws aamount to

:48:47.:48:51.

cruel and degrading treatment and are discriminatory against women in

:48:52.:48:54.

this part of the UK because if Sarah and women in those circumstances

:48:55.:48:58.

lived in another part of the UK, they would have been able to access

:48:59.:49:02.

abortion lawfully, but here, our law treats women like Sarah as a

:49:03.:49:05.

criminal. We shouldn't have been in that

:49:06.:49:08.

situation. We should have been at home with our medicals and in our

:49:09.:49:12.

hospital. Nobody knows when this is going to happen. It could happen

:49:13.:49:17.

again. I have a sister and female cousins, girls, women, constantly

:49:18.:49:22.

contacting us... Abortion is such a sensitive issue here and there are

:49:23.:49:26.

many opponents to Amnesty to Sarah. Those who don't want to see any

:49:27.:49:29.

extension to the circumstances in which abortion is legal. And so have

:49:30.:49:33.

involved themselves in this court case. I'm off to see antiabortion

:49:34.:49:45.

group. They're called Precious Life. They are set-up outside the

:49:46.:49:49.

university here. Hi, nice to meet you. You too. Is this your team?

:49:50.:50:04.

This Lucy is the chair of the Queen's Pro Life Society. She

:50:05.:50:07.

organises the outreach here every week. You get a really good

:50:08.:50:13.

reception. I believe that every life deserves to be protected, you know,

:50:14.:50:18.

both women and children and I don't think you can sort of rank the value

:50:19.:50:22.

of a human life based on anything. If someone has a disability or based

:50:23.:50:27.

on the circumstances of conception I think you have to protect everybody.

:50:28.:50:30.

This case in the court is about women who have been raped. Or have

:50:31.:50:38.

been subject to incest or where the baby will never live outside of

:50:39.:50:43.

pregnancy or will die as soon as it's born. We would argue as a third

:50:44.:50:47.

party intervener in that particular case that every child should be

:50:48.:50:50.

protected in law, policy and practise and that the law here

:50:51.:50:55.

should not be changed. While a child in the womb, that child alive and

:50:56.:51:00.

kicking. That child is a human being and that child deserves to be

:51:01.:51:03.

protected. So you think even if the mother doesn't want to carry it, she

:51:04.:51:07.

should have to? To murder a child in the womb is always wrong and that's

:51:08.:51:12.

what happens through an abortion. They know you're there, that's

:51:13.:51:22.

probably why. So do you have any sympathy with the pro-lifers?

:51:23.:51:26.

They're unbelievably passionate about this and they, through their

:51:27.:51:31.

eyes, that baby, that unborn baby is just the same as you or I? I

:51:32.:51:35.

appreciate that this is an issue that people have strong feelings on,

:51:36.:51:40.

but where I draw the line is when people force that opinion on other

:51:41.:51:44.

women. You know, this is an issue for each individual woman and her

:51:45.:51:48.

doctor. It's no one else's business. It's a private matter. What is it

:51:49.:51:52.

like for you, listening to the stories of the women that come to

:51:53.:51:57.

you? It's enormously difficult. I'm obviously speaking to these women in

:51:58.:52:01.

my Amnesty capacity, but as a woman myself I can't imagine what it's

:52:02.:52:04.

like for these women in these circumstances to be told that your

:52:05.:52:08.

pregnancy isn't viable or to be a victim of rape, to be a child who is

:52:09.:52:16.

a victim of incest, and to be told by doctors here, we can't help you.

:52:17.:52:19.

I mean abortion is not only a healthcare and Human Rights issue,

:52:20.:52:25.

but there is an economic dimension, women who have money will be able to

:52:26.:52:29.

circum haven't the law here because they can travelment women who live

:52:30.:52:34.

in poverty, don't In 2015 the BBC polled the Northern Irish public on

:52:35.:52:39.

this issue. 84% of people asked said abortion should be available in

:52:40.:52:46.

cases of rape. 67% said it should be in cases of abnormality. Precious

:52:47.:52:52.

Life dispute the findings. 84% of people in Northern Ireland said in

:52:53.:52:56.

cases of rape... Has everybody in Northern Ireland been asked? No.

:52:57.:53:00.

When you do polls, you don't ask everyone. While we are looking at

:53:01.:53:03.

the results, a member of the public starts ripping up their leaflets.

:53:04.:53:07.

She is just doing that for attention. I think you're spreading

:53:08.:53:13.

these. It's upsetting my son seeing these images. Do you think that you

:53:14.:53:17.

have the right to do this to other people walking past? Do you think it

:53:18.:53:21.

is a woman's right to make this decision and not you and your

:53:22.:53:25.

(BLEEP) absurd religious ideas? Don't you think a woman has the

:53:26.:53:29.

right to choose? Well, I think you've answered our question and

:53:30.:53:35.

you're in favour of abortion. (BLEEP) God bless that wee child.

:53:36.:53:39.

There is plenty of anger directed at the stall, but some also want to

:53:40.:53:45.

hear their arguments. Circumstances and it is necessary. In what

:53:46.:53:50.

circumstances? If the girl was raped or sexually abused or what do you

:53:51.:53:54.

call it, incest? Is it the child's fault? No, it's not the child's

:53:55.:53:59.

fault... Right, OK. It's not the girl's fault either. Why should we

:54:00.:54:03.

punish the child? I know what you're saying. I haven't thought about it

:54:04.:54:16.

that way. There you gallon. Yeah. Do you usually have people who are more

:54:17.:54:20.

in favour of your message? Well, a variety of different views and view

:54:21.:54:24.

points, but I mean that's basically for your eyes only that set-up

:54:25.:54:28.

there. We don't have the problem at all with... You have different

:54:29.:54:40.

opinions. It is a very emotional issue, isn't it? It's not really.

:54:41.:54:44.

It's quite black and white. What I'm saying, it's wrong. For a lot of

:54:45.:54:48.

people, it's not wrong, you know? You know that might be their opinion

:54:49.:54:51.

in this day and abling, but they're blind to it and it's important that

:54:52.:54:54.

they are informed and that's what we're here to do. How old is he?

:54:55.:55:04.

Two-and-a-half. Sarah now has two children. Jacob and ten week old

:55:05.:55:14.

Aoife. You've got a good play area here.

:55:15.:55:19.

How did what affect your pregnancies with these two? Well, I was, well,

:55:20.:55:27.

we were so nervous of it happening again. We were told if we had one,

:55:28.:55:31.

we would have a higher chance of having another. Have you had any

:55:32.:55:37.

abuse personally? Yes. Not only attacking me for what I'm trying to

:55:38.:55:41.

do, but they have seen pictures on Facebook of my son and then they

:55:42.:55:44.

were starting to say about ugly redheads and all this sort of stuff.

:55:45.:55:52.

It's just ridiculous. It's so awful. What do you want to see from this

:55:53.:56:01.

court case? Well, politicians failed to help us and women like me so

:56:02.:56:06.

we're hoping that we'll get the help through the court. If they ruled in

:56:07.:56:10.

your favour, would that feel like something of a victory like a step,

:56:11.:56:18.

some sort of change? It's bitter sweet. That's the best way of

:56:19.:56:27.

putting it. It would be a relief, but as I say, it would be mixed.

:56:28.:56:34.

Very mixed. Because... Well, as a family, we would have been against

:56:35.:56:39.

termination and abortion because like many people, we're very naive

:56:40.:56:43.

and very ill informed quite frankly and we had never ever thought that a

:56:44.:56:47.

termination would have been needed on medical grounds and one thing

:56:48.:56:52.

we've learnt from this journey is we don't judge anyone until you walk in

:56:53.:56:56.

their shoes because you just don't know how you'd react. Sarah and her

:56:57.:57:00.

mum want abortion to be legal in cases like her's, cases of foetal

:57:01.:57:11.

arnormality. Amnesty is looking for complete discriminalisation. There

:57:12.:57:15.

is any amount of families who there have who have been confronted with

:57:16.:57:19.

the reality of our law. It is illegal in almost every

:57:20.:57:22.

circumstance. Even if you get a victory in this case, it is likely

:57:23.:57:27.

to be challenged again. It's 2017. Our laws date back to 1861. It's

:57:28.:57:32.

unacceptable that our politicians have not grappled with this issue

:57:33.:57:36.

and legislated for change. Change is long overdue and it is coming.

:57:37.:57:47.

We will continue to follow developments in the case on this

:57:48.:57:50.

programme. Thank you for your help compiling

:57:51.:57:56.

the MPs charter. We asked you how you would like them to behave. There

:57:57.:58:07.

is your list. Number one, integrity. Two, empathy, three clarity and

:58:08.:58:11.

directness, four, humility. Five, passion. We're going to send it to

:58:12.:58:17.

all the new MPs over the coming days and weeks.

:58:18.:58:22.

On the programme tomorrow - snooker legend Ronnie O'Sullivan.

:58:23.:58:25.

Thank you for your company today. Have a good day. Bye-bye.

:58:26.:58:39.

Good morning. We've got some mixed fortunes across

:58:40.:58:45.

the UK at the moment. For many of us, it's rather cloudy, but there is

:58:46.:58:48.

sunshine out there. Look at this scene in

:58:49.:58:50.

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