03/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello - it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Tina Daheley

in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

Mental health patients across the UK are spending years in treatment

units awaiting discharge, according to figures

I used to see other people, like, leaving before me and I'd be, like,

"Yeah, but I've been ready a long time, and I'm more equipped."

We'll have all the details and ask why this is happening.

One of the UK's major courier companies tells us they're taking

action to protect their moped riders from acid atttacks.

I was just knocking on the window of a few cars, I was just

They're not opening because probably they were scared.

I was really scared, I don't know what to do.

We will show you the full report in 18 minutes. -- in a few minutes.

And rugby legend Jonny Wilkinson is live in the studio

to talk about his career and how his performance

Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

We're also talking about foster carers this morning and asking

if they should get the same pay and employment rights

If you've fostered children, is this something you'd support,

or is it wrong to think of the role as a 'job' in the

And keys that are causing delays at European airports this summer,

there's a warning this morning that the situation shows no sign of

improving. Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag Victoria live

and If you text, you will be charged There are fresh concerns

about the state of mental A BBC investigation has revealed

that some patients are waiting more than three years to be discharged

from hospital, despite being Figures, obtained through freedom

of information requests, show that at least five patients

waited more than 1,000 days. Hundreds of others have been waiting

for more than six months. The government says the NHS

is investing hundreds of millions of pounds to treat mental health

patients in the community. Our social affairs correspondent,

Michael Buchanan, reports. It helps when I'm bored or anything

and I haven't got anything to do. Toni shows me round her home,

where she lives with five other The 32-year-old suffers

from schizophrenia and She has spent almost half her life

in psychiatric hospitals. She moved here last year,

though, and loves it. But arguments over who should pay

for her care means she spent months longer in hospital

than she needed to. I would see other people,

like, leaving before me. I would be like, yeah,

but I've been ready for a long time. Many psychiatric patients

would recognise Toni's experience. We've discovered that at least five

patients waited more than three While more than 200 spent six

months longer in hospital Often, people are in a revolving

door of hospital placement, and then a failed community

placement, because that step So, by providing a comprehensive

package of support, we hope The complex where Toni lives

is is provided by a national charity The complex where Toni lives

is provided by a national charity who say there aren't

enough similar units. Toni says she will soon move

into a small bungalow on the complex, a further step

towards rebuilding her life. Too many mental health patients

are being denied a similar chance. Speaking to the BBC a little

earlier, Dr Arpan Dutta from the Royal College

of Psychiatrists explained why health services are struggling

to discharge patients. These services are quite fragmented,

I suppose. That needs developing, in terms of integration of services.

There is a big divide between health and social care. And, in a lot of

placements for people are jointly funded. In my work, it is linking up

with social workers, and with other professions, trying to identify

appropriate placements for people. I suppose it is finding the right

placement for the right person, and that is often creating a delay.

Ben Brown is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

Children from the very poorest families in some parts of England

are continuing to fall further behind at school.

The Education Policy Institute says by the end of secondary school,

the most disadvantaged children can be two years behind their peers.

The government says it's directing an extra ?72 million

It starts in primary school and widens in the years that follow,

the attainment gap between poorer and wealthier children.

Now, for some disadvantaged kids, that gap did close slightly

But when you look at the very poorest children, it didn't.

The report calculates that by the time they sit their GCSEs

But the picture does vary nationwide.

You can speculate that funding would be a factor in certain

We know that aspirations are quite important,

So, I think all of these things will be having - and more -

Disadvantaged children are more likely to earn less in future

Put simply, it leads to wasted potential.

The Department for Education says there is over ?2 billion this year

to support schools in this area, and money to help young

people in so-called social mobility cold spots.

Today's report acknowledges there has been progress overall

but the conclusion - it's far too slow.

If the rate of change over the last decade

continues, the study says it

would take a staggering 50 years before the gap is closed.

The Venezuelan President, Nicolas Maduro, has dismissed

allegations of fraud in the country's controversial

A company based in London responsible for providing

the voting system - has claimed electoral authorities

inflated the turn-out figure by at least 1 million.

The opposition has called for more mass demonstrations.

A cot death charity has said that it will no longer endorse the use

of Finnish-style baby boxes, designed for newborns to sleep in.

The cardboard box - filled with baby products and a mattress -

has been connected with low infant mortality rates in

They're now given out to some new parents through the NHS,

but the Lullaby Trust warns there is no evidence

that they reduce the likelihood of sudden infant death syndrome.

More than 200 buildings have failed fire safety tests,

implemented in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire.

In the second in a set of six tests ordered by the government,

100 high-rises failed to meet current regulations.

The BBC has learnt that cladding and insulation panels failed

the test within seven minutes of being set alight.

The Chris Evans' Breakfast Show on Radio 2 has lost almost half

a million listeners in the past year, according

to the latest figures from the research body,

Just over nine million people tuned in every week

in the second quarter of 2017, compared to 9.4 million

BBC Radio 4's Today programme has seen a surge in listeners,

with 7.6 million people tuning in a week in the second

Elsewhere, Nick Grimshaw's breakfast show on BBC Radio 1 added more

than 350,000 listeners in the last quarter, drawing in 5.5

The UK has become a nation of 'binge watchers' according to research

New research suggests eight in ten adults now view multiple episodes

of their favourite shows in a single sitting.

Though most of us still watch at least some live TV each week.

The food delivery company Deliveroo has told this programme it's

bringing in new safety measures to protect drivers from attacks.

It follows a wave of moped crime in London and horrific acid attacks

where delivery drivers have been victims.

Around 450 acid attacks were recorded by police

The company says it's to introduce measures including the ability

for drivers to report unsafe areas and trialling the use

Health warnings are in place across Europe as temperatures reach

A record-breaking heatwave is currently affecting

swathes of the continent - from Romania to Spain and Portugal.

As much of Europe sizzles, just what is the best

An almost continent wide heatwave has pushed temperatures above 40

Celsius, breaking records, and sending people and their pets

In Austria, the elephants at Vienna zoo took to the pool to cool.

The city's horses had to go home it was so hot.

Others, though, weren't quite so lucky.

The heat is centred on Italy, it's experiencing its worst

11 of its 20 regions could soon declare a state of emergency.

It is unusual to see temperatures above 40 degrees across such a large

area but in packs keep coming from this with water shortages, power

cuts in places but heat implications as well, with old people and those

with existing health conditions really suffering in temperatures

like this. After last week's wildfires

in France, firefighters With dry conditions,

risk of further fires is high. In southern Spain, forecasters

described the weather as extreme. A high of 47 degrees

is expected in Cordoba. Plumes of heat are pushing towards

the Balkans, in Romania ice cream wasn't the only thing melting. But,

work must go on. TRANSLATION: We are drinking a lot of water, we take

more breaks and cut the working schedule. We work eight hours a day.

In neighbouring Hungary, this steam gate helps people to cool off.

TRANSLATION: When we go out, we put hats on the kids, factor 50 suncream

on them and we try and stay in the shade. And, the advice is to drink

plenty of water, and despite the leader of the Mediterranean sun, sea

and sand, stay indoors during the hottest hours of the day -- lure of

the Mediterranean sun. Sarah Caulker, BBC News.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

Later this hour, Jonny Wilkinson will be in the studio with me. Send

us any questions you want us to ask him. He will be in with his

performance coach who he says changed his life.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria live and If you text, you will be charged

Let's have a look at the sport, and the story everyone is talking about,

Neymar's record move to PSG? But it's the cash

everyone's talking about. So let take a look at

the numbers quickly - he'll be paid about 80 pence

a second and I've just had a look at his Twitter followers -

he has 30 million so he's set to be You could probably buy four

Kyle Walkers who joined Man City He is a great player -

he scored 68 goals for Barcelona last season, he's pretty much

a national hero in Brazil where he was born and grew up

and that's where I first saw him play at the World Cup

in Brazil three years ago and I thought he was incredible

but lots of pressure on his shoulders -

he's just 25 years old. while we're all flapping

about the money there's one man who doesn't think the

price tag is too bad. For 200 million, I do not think he

is expensive. I think the fact that now you are going to have more

players at 100 million, you will have more players of 80 million, and

more players of 60 million... I think that is the problem. Neymar is

one of the best players in the world. Always good value with Jose

Mourinho. It's a story that's being reported

all over the world - So in France the big headline

there is - he arrives. Meanwhile in Barcelona

it's Hasta Nunca - which basically means see you never

or good riddance. Here the FT are talking

about the record transfer - and Spanish Newspaper Mundo

Deportivo is looking at how Barca may spend their little nest egg

with Liverpool forward Phillipe Coutinho high on their list

- although the Reds boss Jurgen Klopp says Coutinho isn't

leaving Anfield this summer - even if the Catalan side came

in with an offer in the region A staggering amount of money on

offer there. Incredible sums of money, but

meanwhile, the England Lionesses are looking to reach the finals of the

year is tonight? Yes, a brilliant story.

England's women are looking to make the final.

They're taking on hosts, the Netherlands.

There's good news and bad news with England chances so get the bad

news out the way first - they're missing two key players.

So despite looking good in training here the Lionesses

won't have keeper Karen Bardsley - she's out because of injury replaced

by Siobhan Chamberlain and they're also without midfielder Jill Scott.

But the good news - they're still the highest-ranked

And their record is pretty good - they've won all four games

so far, scored 11 goals and only conceded one.

They'll be looking to go one better than two years ago

where they were knocked out in the semi finals of the World Cup.

For Chamberlain - she's ready to step up

If I can push KP as hard as possible, likewise with the rest of

us, we can push one another to be the best. Ultimately I want to be

out there playing and if I can make other best she can be to stop

myself, that's the best way. We do not want the misfortune of others to

be playing but if it happens you have to grasp it with both hands.

I've been around some good sports people, these players work as hard

as anyone I've ever worked with or seen. They are absolutely obsessed

with being the best they can be. Now they have these two skills in

abundance, the sky is the limit for this group.

All of the build-up and full commentary is available on BBC

Radio five Live from seven o'clock. We will be watching, thank you.

The very poorest schoolchildren are falling up to two years

behind their better off classmates by the time they finish

That's according to a new report by the Education Policy Institute.

It's based on data from all state schools, and suggests that

youngsters who have spent the majority of their time

at secondary school on free school dinners -

a key measure of poverty - are increasingly lagging behind

The Department for Education says the attainment gap has narrowed over

the past six years and ?2.5 billion of extra funding

is being invested in schools to help the most disadvantaged pupils.

She's a single parent of four children.

She works part-time but has had to rely on benefits to make ends meet.

Her youngest son is 17 and just doing his exams.

And Tash Moriarty, head teacher of Harefield Academy in Watford.

She has done a lot of work focusing on helping disadvantaged children.

I will start with you, four kids, single parent, you been on benefits

as well. Yep. Tell us about the financial pressures you were put

under. They are sort of universal to most people, but when you are on a

very, very low fixed income, it is hard to budget, it is hard to make

sure that you are providing for your children, especially things like

educational trips. Even down to things like good diet. Paying all

your bills. Really bringing up healthy children is the most

important thing. So how did that affect their attainment at school?

I'm not really sure. My youngest son, who is 17 now, when he was

doing his GCSEs in 2016, we got to the point where it was looking as

though he wasn't going to be able to obtain a Seagrave in maths. -- a C

in maths. I had to pay for a Chuter. That cost about ?60 per lesson, so I

could only do that -- pay for a tutor. I had to scrimp and save to

find that money, but I was amazed. He got a B. So it made a difference,

but what I found really interesting was the fact that the tutor said it

was confidence. Confidence. And I think that is a huge problem with

children from underprivileged backgrounds, confidence. Shouldn't

that be taught in schools? Is that what you were paying money for,

essentially, to instil confidence in your children? No, obviously schools

play a part in instilling confidence, but if you are in an

environment where a lot of children have privilege, holidays, and you

don't, you can't really connect with those kind of children. I don't know

because I have never been a teacher, so I don't know how teachers view

children from different backgrounds. I don't know if it is something they

can spot straightaway or if they feel maybe it is just too much hard

work to help a child who is experiencing difficulties. It is a

balance between home life and school life, but poverty at home can affect

things like where you live. Overcrowding. The pressures of the

adult at home are so great that maybe sometimes seeing how your

children are doing kind of gets put to one side a little bit. Do you

think it makes a difference if other children from that school also from

an disadvantaged background, or is it worse if they are not? I always

feel that a school should be a really good mix, neither all

middle-class children, or under privileged children. A mix is what

you need as long as the children who are lacking confidence are brought

up to the level that the privileged children are. What are the kind of

disadvantages children face in your school? Amanda has picked up on

them, there are some practical ones, access to resources, so if you are

in an environment where there are limited advantages. The facilities

of the home environment can impact. If there is overcrowding, as has

already been alluded to, it makes it very difficult to find the right

kind of space to affect homework positively. Homework is a

significantly important part of a child's development. We factor in a

large portion of time that is required to reinforce the curriculum

through homework time and if the facilities that a child has at home

to complete that homework effectively are not up to scratch,

it is very difficult for the child to succeed in the same way. Some of

those practical elements are very important. They are very

characteristic of socially disadvantaged families and how gaps

can be created through those areas. So for example funding music

activities, arts activities, dance lessons, drama lessons, all of those

kinds of creative activities and sports activities cost an awful lot

of money. No question that they motivate a child, they add to a

child's confidence, their aspiration and resilience. If you could capture

into words what the biggest difference is between socially

disadvantaged and advantage committed their natural resilience

and aspiration. Much of that comes from from home environment. Mandy is

a very important active parent who has supported her child as much as

possible. Families from a lower financially vulnerable background

often would be there are generations within that family of low

aspiration, that there is no history of anyone in that family aspiring of

going to university or further education, and in that environment

it is very difficult for children to break through to recognise a reason

to want to aspire any higher. It puts an inordinate amount of

pressure on schools to try and raise that aspiration. We have talked

about the research already and what that shows. One of the main things

it shows actually around disadvantaged students that they are

mostly impacted by low aspiration and low academic self-concept, so if

they believe is they are not going to achieve it is difficult to

improve that. So you are saying it is down to low aspiration? Yes, it

is a very complex matter, but low aspiration of the family for the

child, low academic self-concept and belief in what they are capable of

achieving and all of those have a knock-on effect in the class. It

often manifests as a lack of confidence, a lack of emotional

resilience in the classroom, an unwillingness perhaps to share

experiences, to voice their opinions, having access to the right

vocabulary to voice their opinions, those sorts of things. If as we are

hearing today it will take 50 years to close that gap, what can be done

to speed that up? The first thing to say is measuring that gap is key. 50

years to close that gap is largely based on statistics that report on

payment as opposed to progress. There has been a move in the last

few years to shift that and a report on student progress as opposed to

student attainment. Attainment is a threshold measure, there is no

reason to suggest that children should be aspiring to a particular

threshold, we ought to be looking to get them to progress within their

capabilities. We need to recognise in closing that gap that it starts

very young, the most damage is done in the first five years of a child's

life, which is very much informed by what goes at home. As opposed to

school. The other important thing to the standards that June from

socially disadvantaged families, the Gavern progress and attainment will

grow much faster than those from advantaged backgrounds, and

consequently once those gaps exist, if they are not address they will

become wider, and the gap in the child's achievement will continue to

grow. So it is very important first of all to go back and look at the

parenting side and look at support that can be given to parents, and

that comes in the early years as much as it does in schooling. There

needs to be an awful lot funding put into schools. One thing the pupil

premium will be maintained at ?2.5 billion, coming back to the point

about parenting, what extra support would you need as a parent, would

you be calling for? That is a really hard actually. I suppose for me I

have always been puzzled where the pupil premium has gone, what exactly

is that used for. So for example with my son having difficulties in

attaining the C in maths. That was recognised from the school that he

was on the sort of D scale, so why wasn't, say, the pupil premium used

in such a way to help them? Instead, he came home, they are saying he

can't get a C, what am I going to do? And so I had to deal with that,

I had to really dig deep, and I knew I could pay the three months. If I

did not pay for that three months, and he didn't get a grade C, he

would not have been able to stay on for his A-levels, and that could

have had a huge consequence as it has gone on. So I am really

intrigued as to what exactly pupil premium is used for. Is it

specifically targeted for the children who it was meant for? It is

supposed to go to individual children but the reality is it does

not always but that is a whole other conversation. Thank you for coming

in. The Department for Education gave us

the statement. Coming up, England rugby legend

Jonny Wilkinson will be live in the studio to talk

about how his sporting coach After the Grenfell Tower disaster,

3,000 residents living in a building with similar cladding

in the Chalcots Estate in Camden were told to pack up and leave

so urgent safety work could be done. Six weeks on - the Council says

the work is complete Residents have now been told

to return to their flats. But some have told the BBC that -

despite millions of pounds being spent on the evacuation -

the work that's been done is shoddy and incomplete

and puts lives at risk. Our reporter Sangita Myska

can tell us more. What was the urgent work that needed

doing? As you just mentioned, after the grand full disaster, the London

Fire Brigade went into the Charcot 's estate and carried out advanced

safety checks the fire. Four of those towers needed urgent internal

work done in the communal areas of the flats to keep residents say. As

you say, we all remember those pictures of all those thousands of

people pouring out of their flats, given a few hours to pack up and

find hotel rooms. What London Fire Brigade wanted was a range of

measures to stop fire and smoke spreading from one part of the

building to another. The aim obviously is to limit the risk of

injury and death in the event of a fire. Camden council say the work is

complete, it has been signed off by buildings inspectors from two other

councils may have been working closely with the London Fire

Brigade. But residents I have spoken to say they are really alarmed by

the quality of the work. They say it is shoddy, incomplete and poses a

potential risk. You have been down there, what did you see? I was shown

around one of those towers. I ought to say that Camden council did ask

us not to record inside. We went ahead. I was shown around by one

resident around a tower called Taplow. 23 stories high. He showed

me a range of work at various residents believe is shoddy. Let's

take a look at the fire doors was to be can see seals, which are supposed

to be fire and smoke resistant. I think we can argue that work is

questionable since those seals only went up a week or so ago. That fire

door runs to the only fire stairs. It does not in fact shut. Moving on

to the staircases that that leads on to, if you have a look there, at the

edge of each staircase you should have a working, fit for purpose

black strip, a nonslip strip that I dearly can be seen in the dark. You

can see it is very badly worn away. On those sets of stairs there were

no strips at all, that was quite good compared to some of the others.

Let's move on to the front door of flats, should have been sealed at

the top and the bottom and around that letterbox. On that letterbox

there was no sealant at all. If you skip to the next photo, you can see

at the bottom, when it comes up, at the bottom of that particular door,

the gap was so big that I was able to fit my entire hand underneath.

That is a close-up on another front door. That close is supposed to bang

doors shut. When you run out, there is a fire in your flat, the whole

idea is that you will get your possessions, grab your kids and ran

outside and hopefully the door will shut behind you. Contain that fire.

That was either missing or broking on several front doors.

I've shown these photographs to two experts, one was categoric, he says

that he does not believe that this tower is safe to live in. He has

gone in and he has done his own look around, that is his opinion. After

these repairs have been done? After these repairs have been done and

signed off. Then, the other expert told us as far as he was concerned,

just looking at those photos, he believed the work has not been

carried out to British safety standards. And what about the inside

of the flats? This is really interesting, Tina, when the enhanced

safety checks were undertaken, it would appear, at least, they were

not done on the insides of the flat. I was actually recording a piece for

radio, and as we went around the building, we saw several issues. All

of which are on BBC Online, viewers can see the photographs and other

issues. We were asked to stop recording, I was asked to go into

someone else's flat, she asked me to go in she wanted to show me

something. There was a room where electric cables come out the fuse

box and electric meters. There were a lot of exposed cables, boxed in

with cardboard. She alleges the boxing in with cardboard was done by

Camden Council contracted electricians. Take a look, the

cables run right into her ceiling. The ceiling, obviously, this is the

ground floor of the tower. The ceiling obviously adjoins to the

flat upstairs. This goes right to the heart of what the urgent works

were about, which was containment. Making sure that if a fire breaks

out it is contained in a limited area, allowing people to get out. On

the outside of these blocks, I should mention, all four blocks, is

cladding which is very similar, not the same, but similar to that used

at the Grenfell Tower and today we have seen that story about fire

safety checks being undertaken for a second time. Obviously, this is of

great alarm and worry to some of the residents living there. In light of

everything you have shown us, what has the response been from Camden

Council and the fire brigade? We have put every one of these very

specific allegations to Camden Council. We invited the council

leader life, and I'm sorry to say she declined other invitation. The

council said the urgent work was signed off and undertaken

immediately, signed off from building control in two other London

boroughs, Lambeth and Westminster, and they worked closely with the

London Fire Brigade. Thank you very much.

A delivery driver tells us about the moment but as it was thrown into his

face. And rugby champion Jonny Wilkinson joins us in the studio in

a few minutes time. Send in any questions you want us to ask him.

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

Some mental health patients are waiting three years to be

discharged from hospital, despite being medically fit to leave.

Figures, obtained by the BBC through freedom of information

requests, show that at least five patients waited more

Meanwhile, hundreds more have been waiting for more than six months.

Children from the very poorest families in some parts of England

are continuing to fall further behind at school.

The Education Policy Institute says by the end of secondary school,

the most disadvantaged children can be two years behind their peers.

The government says it's directing an extra 72-million-pounds

into areas with low social mobility.

The Venezuelan President, Nicolas Maduro, has dismissed

allegations of fraud in the country's controversial

A company based in London responsible for providing

the voting system - has claimed electoral authorities

inflated the turn-out figure by at least 1 million.

The opposition has called for more mass demonstrations.

A cot death charity has said that it will no longer endorse the use

of Finnish-style baby boxes, designed for newborns to sleep in.

The cardboard box - filled with baby products and a mattress -

has been connected with low infant mortality rates in

They're now given out to some new parents through the NHS,

but the Lullaby Trust warns there is no evidence

that they reduce the likelihood of sudden infant death syndrome.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News. More from me at ten o'clock.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

Brazilian striker Neymar could become the World's most

He's expected to complete his transfer from Barcelona

to Paris Saint Germain for just under 200 million pounds.

He's likely to earn three quarters of a million pounds a week.

We're less than 11 hours away now from England's Euro 2017 semi final

Manager Mark Sampson says their mission isn't just

to become the best team in Europe - but the best team in the world.

Celtic are just one tie away from the group stages

James Forrest's strike helped the Scottish champions past

The draw for the playoff round will take place tomorrow.

And, breaking news that has reached us in the last few minutes. The

former world heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko has announced his

retirement from boxing. It had been expected that the 41-year-old would

announce a rematch with Anthony Joshua, who beat him in April at

Wembley for the world heavyweight title. More on that just after ten.

He changed my life" - that's how England rugby

legend Jonny Wilkinson describes his kicking

He's an elite performance coach - who started out teaching economics

in a secondary school and ended up coaching some of the biggest names

in sport - including golfers Luke Donald and Padraig Harrington,

the England Rugby team and British Lions,

the England Cricket team and Manchester City.

Dr Dave Alred has written a book called the Pressure Principle -

which he says can help everyone manage stress and perform

Jonny Wilkinson and Dr Dave Alred are here -

and we'll speak to them shortly - do get in touch now if you do

But first let's have a look at some of Jonny Wilkinson's most

# I feel the chemicals burn in my bloodstream

Jonny Wilkinson is here - with his elite performance

Do you ever get fed up of watching your best bits back? I don't do it a

huge amount any more to be honest! They are great things but not my

best bets, as Dave will allude to, the best bits are always to come.

You describe Dave as a genius who changed your life, why? And the bank

during that time in my life, I was at the point, like a lot of people

are, where they feel there is a limit, that they have reached a

point where they cannot go any further. When was that? Early for

me, 16 or 17, that was when the process started. I was after

perfection, I reached a point where I was living accidentally. Some days

it was good, others it was not great. What Dave did for me, he

opened my eyes to space, space for improvement and space to move and to

grow. That space, as Dave will mention as well, is not out there,

but it is in you already. It just needs revealing. What you have

uncovered is not your limit, and going beyond those is where

everything in life exists. Beyond what you think. Dave began my

journey to discovering that space and I've been on that journey ever

since. It has been amazing. Talk to me about that journey, when did you

work with Jonny? And how much progress has he made since then?

Poo-mac the progress has been magnificent book the number one

thing was when he turned up at the age of 16 at Loughborough

University, it was just a case of me thinking, OK, I had already got in

my mind about wherever you are now, you can get better. It does not

matter who you are. I started working then. What really impressed

me was the intensity in which he wanted to get better. I think that

intensity, you know, has been justly rewarded. It is a thing that goes on

throughout your life, and in terms of the media, people are just

looking at a playing career but, for me, it is well beyond that. It is

just a question of, you know, I am here today. Tomorrow I am going to

be better. And, I am going to look back and see how I have improved

from last week. Nearly anybody can do that in any walk of life. And, I

think the other issue is, which is really important, is so many people

focus on what they cannot do as a starting point. Then, they try and

look to improve that. I would rather focus on what you can do as a

starting point. Then, improve everything. Dave, you say in your

book that you believe Jonny was a better rugby player in 2014 and he

was at the peak of his career in 2003. Why? I felt bad when you work

with somebody a lot, you see them in practice and you see what they do in

games, there are certain things where you see a benchmark of

improvement. I think that, statistically, he was, excuse the

embarrassment here, but statistically a better player and

more balanced player, and more able to manage what was going on around

him. I felt that, by then, for whatever reason, we had really got

onto the bandwagon, getting in what we call the ugly zone, working on

and enjoying it. It sounds strange, to enjoy failing, but it is enjoying

where you start making mistakes, and then getting better from that. I

felt that the time in Toulon, in my opinion, was long overdue, in terms

of being in a different environment where you have control, and even to

the last week, where we worked together in Paris, we did something

for the first time. It is just the thrill of finding things that you

can do differently and better at the margin. What did you do? New

training ideas. What I was going to say is that when you are so sure of

who you are and everything, and how life works, you are on a journey

which is narrowing to a point. Until 2003 I was so sure everything should

be. Going past that point, you have to make decisions. When you go on a

journey going away from a point and into open space, it is about the

ugly zone. Anything that feels ugly and uncomfortable, it is normally

outside of your journey. Even in the last week or last few days, we were

looking at roles, ideas, for processes, fixes, feelings and

preparations, to challenge what is there so when the day comes, you are

in as big a space, spontaneous and creative, but also as focused and

controlled as you could ever be. It is really a choice. That's the

amazing thing. It can be a feeling of compulsion. This is how it has to

be, it never has to be any certain way. I know it challenges people in

so many situations but from the sporting perspective, you are

ultimately the creator of your own parameters. And come easy live

within them. If you do not like that feeling, you have to expand and

break them and open them right up. What was the turning point for you?

When did you realise, in your own life, sporting career or a

combination of both, that you had managed to control how you were

dealing with things, and dealing with the pressure? And, were

comfortable in how you were dealing with it? For me, it was nothing to

do with sport. My work with Dave within the sport was amazing, making

so much sense the entire time. I was a pretty petulant child, sometimes,

during some training sessions... He can give you many examples of that,

I'm sure! But the actual moment for me came through mental health. That

struggle there is a perfect way of understanding who you believe

yourself to be and what you believe yourself to be is not real. That is

the whole point, it exists in your mind as an identity to function as

well. It is nothing to do with existentially who you are. If you

confuse the two, you end up in a dark place and mental health gave me

an opportunity and space between the two. They presented me with that in

and around sport. I was not conscious of seeing it. Because,

Dave was almost allaying the path for me. That mental health allowed

me to see the path with my own eyes and that's why I appreciate him more

than ever and I also understand the depth of what he was doing and what

he has written about in his book. That consciously, when you look at

it, it makes so much more sense at the time, I said it seems to work to

keep going but that is what real coaches do.

Can you talk this through your approach, when it comes to elite

athletes and the teams and individuals who have worked with,

they are under a unique and immense amount of pressure in a very public

arena. I think the problem we have is that sport team, and if you

excuse, the media, and if the media is stories we tell ourselves about

ourselves is always result driven, and results are outcomes, and once

people start focusing on the outcome and lose the point of the process,

in other words, you know, I teach you the process and we adhere to

that process, no matter what. And it is getting people to understand that

that's the key. That once we start worrying about the outcome of, then

we are in trouble. And I think in anything you do, what is the

process, what are the fundamentals? You might say to me, well, Dave, if

I was teaching you the goalkick, for example. Well, we could try! There

are no limits! If I teach you the goalkick, I might say keep your eye

on the ball, and you might say to me I can see the ball but I can also

see the target and I'm worried about this and that. But if I say to you I

want you to see the piece of stitching on the ball, that becomes

so engaging, that that displaces everything else. The minute I said

to you instead of just hitting the target, I want to hit a spot in the

middle of the target. Consciously I lock you into that process, and

practice is about looking into that process over and over again, so when

it comes to the day of reckoning, it doesn't matter where you are, if you

see the stitching and the spot, the ball goes over. OK, well, may be in

your case it would. Well, not all the time. So if it is a

high-pressure situation, it is a World Cup and you are taking that

decisive kick, what is going through your mind and how do you approach

that situation, with what you have learned from Dave? As Dave was

saying about the outcome side driving the fear of failure and the

anxiety and that side of it, it is impossible to commit to something

you don't want to happen. So fear of failure might give you a motivation

of sorts, but you cannot fully commit everything you have got

something you don't want to happen, you can't protect and go after

something at the same time. When you release it through excitement and

passion, you automatically engage every part of you, so that whole

thing becomes about a desire. A desire to make things happen, to put

the ball on that exact area, to visualise it, to get excited about

how good this can be. As soon as you open that space of positive

proactive motivation, it becomes a process of acceleration that

continues through the event and be on the event, and in any walk of

life, and in any dictionary as well you will always see the definition

of an event comes afterwards. Even in the dictionary, there is the word

and then the definition comes afterwards. A goalkick, it doesn't

stop at the goalkick, life doesn't stop at the event can you continue

beyond it and you make it inevitable. Any thoughts about what

may have. You are accelerating. It is the whole point of hesitancy. As

it gets to the ball, it slows down, in golf, but as you accelerate

beyond you define what happens before because you link it into a

straight process, which is what they've is talking about. So that

desire to go beyond has to come through excitement and passion. That

is what happens in those events, you have define your own reason for the

excitement and passion, how good could this moment be? Not what

happens it isn't. And then how do you deal with failure, which is

overseeing an important part of that process. There is no such thing as

failure. There is an unintended outcome, but there is no failure.

That is interesting how the language, and Jonny were saying

about excitement and enjoying it, I think the problem we have is that if

you look at a five-year-old, when they do something well, they enjoy

it, they vibrate with excitement. They are reinforcing the behaviour

they want to repeat. As adults, we tend not to, we are Joe Cool when it

goes right, but when something goes wrong, there is a whole song and

dance and a tantrum that goes with it. So we are in fact reinforcing

the very behaviour we don't want. So, if you like, I am trying to

rekindle the five-year-old excitement in a way to reinforce

behaviour want to repeat, and success and the ball going in the

right place or the putt going in the hole, or the drive going down the

centre of the fairway, or whatever it is. You should enjoy it. And we

tend not to. I think we have lost enjoyment. So it is almost stripping

away that social conditioning, worrying about what people think and

being in the moment? I was going to say about the failure thing as well,

now if I have a failure in my life, I love it, because if everything

turns out as you expect, you cannot grow. If this interview you are

doing now, if I say every single word, and I gave you a vision of how

ever thing would turn outcome you might say that relieves my fear, but

after two days you would say I don't want to do this job any more. I need

that buzz that comes from not knowing. When you can get excited

about the unknown, you get confidence will stop that whole

point of the fear of failure is I wanted, I wanted, I want everything

that, the social side of it is that when you have confidence about the

unknown, there is no you to battle with Kamui just flow because the

world is unknown, you are unknown, the two things flow together. When

you have a known and an unknown, you have a big old fight and that is the

story of rugby and any sport. Most guys want to know how it turns out

before they play, and that is the feeling everyone talks about being

unable to work it out and deal with the fear. We have a question which I

can give you, from Wayne, who is on Twitter. He says he would like to

know if Jonny and Dave believes the theory that some stress is a good

thing? If stress can be turned into excitement about the actual bars of

achieving something you have never done before. Then, wow, you know, go

for it. I liken it a little bit too if I was to teach you to do a

standing long jump. Kicks, now a standing long jump! LAUGHTER

Busy day. You would have to slightly change your shoes, and you clear,

say, six feet on a carpet, and then I say right, there is a puddle six

feet, there is not much of a challenge. But round the back there

is a garage that is 12 feet off the ground and a gap that is six foot

and I ask you to jump that, and you say, hang on a minute. And then I

reinforce the process over and over again, and you jump it, the rush you

will get from actually defeating what could have been a disastrous

outcome is fantastic, and that's what you live for. I know what I

doing after the show today then! Yes. What I like about what they've

is saying as well is if there is energy there, you can use it to go

somewhere. You can't do anything without energy and drive. If you

don't like something, or you really like it or you really don't like it,

either way you've got energy there. It's the bit in the middle that is

impossible to do anything with. If you have the person that is not

really bothered, that you can't shift, but in understanding

something with my hate to say much, that energy, that energy is your

route, to do what you want with. It doesn't have to be stress. Stress is

friction. If it is just you and acceptance, there is a lot of flow

there. It is very interesting, in your book you talk about the fact

everyone is different and deals with situations differently. Some

athletes, sports men and women you have worked with need, almost

thrive, on that feeling of fear and stress. You talk about someone you

work with would always throw up before playing. I know who that is!

Yeah, but that's really just... The irony of it is if I went into the

loo with him and said OK, don't worry, you don't have to play, I

would probably get belted. You see, so what it is, it is an exciting and

excitement. If you look at anxiety and the physiological impact of

anxiety, it is not far off massive excitement, and it is just switching

that. That is the key. I think that people when they say I'm nervous, my

reaction straightaway is that is awesome. That means we are really

going to go well today. At weekend, for whatever reason, think that

nervousness and anxiety is a prerequisite to failure. We talk so

much about anxiety now. Loo macro very much so. We have another

comment coming in, Sally on twitter says loving this interview, so

motivating and inspiring. There you go. People also want to know what is

going on with you at the moment, and also your thoughts on commit has

been a fantastic summer for women's sport, and the Lionesses are taking

part in the semifinal in the Netherlands tonight. England women

cricket team and Wimbledon. What are your thoughts on the RFU's decision

not to give the England women 15 side players a new contract? We were

talking about this, Dave and I about something else, not necessarily

this, and saying that, and this is an interesting way of looking at it,

when you asked me what we are up to at the moment, my drive is very much

in deeper, deeper mental health journey that goes even beyond that.

One of the things you can get caught out on, as soon as you think you

know something, the error is compounded, and everything you say

or do from that moment, the assumption of you think you know

something. From that moment, everything you go down is an Louisa

Reeve journey. It is better to start with I don't know, my first answer

is I don't know what is going on with that agreement, I don't know

what the people feel about it. If I am to make any assumption, whatever

I say afterwards will be imaginary. I know this is getting away from the

question, but when you start living in an imaginary world can you live

your life irrelevantly. I know it is great to have opinions on things but

actually freedom comes from saying you know what, I don't know, I don't

know what I think about it. Mostly because I have no idea what is going

on. I am not in that space. We would love everybody to have everyone the

opportunity to do what they want, but there are people out there with

budgets and decisions that I do know about. In that respect I would love

to have that comment for you but I don't. OK. And we are out of time

anyway. Jonny, David, thank you for coming in. Coming up, should foster

carers get the same implement rights as other council employees? We will

be debating the issue after 10am this morning. Now the latest weather

with Carol. It has been very hot across parts of Europe of late.

Yesterday's top temperatures, 44 in Sardinia, 43 in Rome for example.

There is a red heat warning out across Sardinia, parts of Italy, the

Brooklands and south Poland, also looking at high humidity. That kind

of weather is life-threatening. Closer to home, sunshine and

showers, some heavy, possibly than three with hail across Northern

Ireland, Scotland and northern Ireland. Further south, it will

rattle through quite quickly on a brisk wind across England and Wales.

Here you are not likely to be as heavy or as frequent. Through the

course of this morning, we continue with that combination of sunshine

and showers, the heaviest, some slow-moving ones across Scotland,

and pretty slow moving across northern England and Northern

Ireland. Whipping through on that win. In England and Wales, you will

find you will have sunshine, you might see a shower and then the

sunshine will come back quite quickly. The Northern Ireland and

Scotland, looking at that mixture of sunshine and showers, this morning's

rain continuing to drift further north and the northern England again

we are looking at some heavy showers. We won't all see one but if

you catch one it will be slow-moving. South through the

Midlands, East Anglia, Essex and Kent, down to the Isle of Wight, in

south-west England and Wales, the showers will be fewer and further

between, not as heavy, some dry weather and some sunny spells.

Through this evening and overnight, we hang the windy conditions. A lot

of dry weather but showers whipping in from the Western wind, and the

rain across northern England comes south across much of the rest of

Scotland. It is not going to be a cold night, temperatures 13 to 15

Celsius. Tomorrow we start off with that rain in Scotland, but through

the day it will turn more showery in nature, still quite brisk winds in

the North, showers coming into Northern Ireland, northern England

as well. Fewer showers for England and Wales, a lot of sunshine, a lot

of tri- weather, and if you get into the sunshine, out of the win, a high

of 24 will feel quite pleasant. As we had from Friday into Saturday, a

little ridge of high-pressure moves in but still quite windy across the

north, so the showers coming in with that win. A quick look at Saturday's

forecast, the showers coming in, there will be showers across England

and Wales, this looks perhaps a bit worse than it will be, but in

between there will be some sunshine, high is up to 21 and the Sunday a

lot of dry weather. Hello, it's Thursday,

it's ten o'clock, I'm Tina Daheley One of the UK's major courier

companies tells us what they are doing to protect their staff from

acid attacks, as figures show the problem is on the rise...

I was just knocking on the window of a few cars, I was just

They're not opening because probably they were scared.

I was really scared, I don't know what to do.

We will show you the full report in a few minutes.

Rugby legend Jonny Wilkinson tells this programme

how his coach changed his life, both on and off the pitch.

What Dave did for me, at that point, he opened my eyes to space, space

for improvement and space to move and to grow. That space, I'm sure

Dave will go on about it as well, is not out there, it is in you already.

It just needs revealing. What you have uncovered is not your limits.

You can see that full interview on our website.

England's women are just one win away from the final of Euro 2017.

They face the Netherlands in the semifinal tonight.

But does the female sport get the coverage it deserves?

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.

Some mental health patients are waiting three years to be

discharged from hospital, despite being medically

Figures, obtained by the BBC through freedom of information

requests, show that at least five patients waited more

Meanwhile, hundreds more have been waiting for more than six months.

Children from the very poorest families in some parts of England

are continuing to fall further behind at school.

The Education Policy Institute says by the end of secondary school,

the most disadvantaged children can be two years behind their peers.

The government says it's directing an extra 72-million-pounds

The Venezuelan President, Nicolas Maduro, has dismissed

allegations of fraud in the country's controversial

A company based in London responsible for providing

the voting system - has claimed electoral authorities

inflated the turn-out figure by at least 1 million.

The opposition has called for more mass demonstrations.

A cot death charity has said that it will no longer endorse the use

of Finnish-style baby boxes, designed for newborns to sleep in.

The cardboard box - filled with baby products and a mattress -

has been connected with low infant mortality rates in

They're now given out to some new parents through the NHS,

but the Lullaby Trust warns there is no evidence

that they reduce the likelihood of sudden infant death syndrome.

Residents of a North London tower block have told the BBC that urgent

safety work carried out in the wake of the Grenfell Tower disaster

People living on the Chalcots Estate in Camden were among about 3000

people who were told to leave their homes,

with only a few hours notice, six weeks ago.

The work was carried out by Camden Council,

which has told the BBC it's now been signed off by Building Control

The food delivery company Deliveroo has told this programme it's

bringing in new safety measures to protect drivers from attacks.

It follows a wave of moped crime in London and horrific acid attacks

where delivery drivers have been victims.

Around 450 acid attacks were recorded by police

The company says it's to introduce measures including the ability

for drivers to report unsafe areas and trialling the use

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria live and if you text, you will be charged

The big rematch between Anthony Joshua and Wladimir Klitschko

will not go ahead after the former heavyweight world champion

We had been waiting for confirmation of another fight between the two

in Las Vegas in November but the 41-year-old has

decided to hang up his gloves after 27 years.

As an amateur he won gold at the Atlanta Olympics

in 1996 before becoming the World Heavyweight Champion

He's thanked his team, family and fans for their support.

Brazilian striker Neymar is set to earn three quarters of a million

pounds a week when he completes a world record move from Barcelona

to Paris St-Germain for just under 200 million pounds.

It would make him the world's most expensive player with extras

from sponsorships as well but there's one person

who doesn't think the price tag is too expensive.

For 200 million, I do not think he is expensive. I think the fact that

you will have more players at 100 million, and you will have more

players of 80 million, and more players of 60 million... And, I

think that is the problem. Because, Neymar is one of the best players in

the world. It's a story that's being talked

about all over the world So in France the big headline

there is HE ARRIVES. in Barcelona it's Hasta Nunca -

which basically means SEE Deportivo is looking at how Barca

could spend their little nest egg with Liverpool forward

Phillipe Coutinho high on their list - although the Reds boss

Jurgen Klopp says Coutinho isn't leaving Anfield this summer -

even if the Catalan side came in with an offer in the region

of 100 million pounds. It's the women's Euro 2017

semi-finals tonight England are taking on hosts,

the Netherlands. Karen Bardsley - she's out

because of injury replaced by Siobhan Chamberlain and they're

also without midfielder Jill Scott. But England are still

the highest-ranked team And their record is pretty good -

they've won all four games so far, They'll be looking to go one

better than two years ago where they were knocked out

in the semi-finals of the World Cup. I've been around some good sports

people, but these players now, they work as hard as anyone I have ever

worked with or seen. They are absolutely obsessed with being the

best they can be. Now they have those two skills in abundance, the

sky is the limit for this group. That's all for now Tina -

more from us at 10:30. Lear, thank you. Let me read some

comments coming in to do with our interview with Jonny Wilkinson. And

his elite performance coach. Dave on Twitter says that Wilkinson is such

a role model and a top speech by the coach too. Someone else says it is

fascinating with Johnny and his coach, not failure but unexpected

consequence. You need passion and excitement. Matt Cassidy says Jonny

Wilkinson and his coach Dave talking so much sense about mental health

and how to handle anxiety. Great advice. And "Focus on the things you

can do and do it better, rather than the things you can't". And Jackson

Moody says, great interview with Jonny Wilkinson on the importance of

training within a zone of pressure, and mistakes, progress of process.

Thank you very much, keep those coming in.

The food delivery company Deliveroo has told this programme it's

bringing in new safety measures to protect drivers from attacks.

It follows a wave of moped crime that's hit London and horrific acid

attacks where delivery drivers have been victims.

Around 450 acid attacks were recorded by police

It comes as the Royal College of Emergency Medicine warns

corrosive liquids are fast replacing knives as the weapon of choice

for criminals and there needs to be more awareness about how

Catrin Nye has this exclusive report.

London is currently in the midst of a moped crimewave.

Three weeks ago, Deliveroo driver Jabed Hussain was the first victim

in a series of five acid attacks in 90 minutes in north-east London.

I was just knocking on the windows of a few cars,

They're not opening because probably they were scared.

Just running on the street like a crazy.

In the last year, the Met Police recorded more than 16,000 incidents

involving motorised two wheeled vehicles, compared with

Deliveroo says since the acid attacks more than 70 drivers have

said they don't want to finish an order because of safety fears.

And seven drivers have said they don't want

So the company is adding new features.

After I mark delivered, I get the opportunity to give

feedback to the network as to whether the delivery

So if I've had an incident where I've been concerned for my safety,

And I would choose the option here, safety concerns.

This is new. The safety concerns is new.

And is that a direct response to the acid attacks

So we have had delivery feedback for a few weeks now,

so prior to the terrible attacks, but adding safety concerns

as an explicit option is a response to those incidents.

As well as that feature in the app, the company are employing

new specialist safety staff, and will trial helmet

mounted cameras for drivers in the London Borough of Hackney,

so they can hand footage directly to the police.

Hackney now has a reputation as a trouble spot.

Riders across the country need to have the right channels

so they can communicate any kind of issues through.

And currently, we have those in the form of the app,

so they can communicate on an order if they have any kind of issue.

And that is really important for us, but also I think it's

These cameras are just being trialled in Hackney, why just there?

Any new technology, you need to test.

You need to make sure it does the things it's meant to do.

If it does, then absolutely, will take this across the country.

Deliveroo drivers are all self-employed, so not entitled

They also all use their own bikes and mopeds to deliver.

Do you feel guilty at all that they are putting themselves at risk,

but they don't get sick pay, they don't get repairs

As I said before, the safety of our riders is the most

important thing to us, and it is our responsibility

as a company to step up our efforts, so they can feel safe on the road

For Jabed, the fear of being attacked again means

he now won't work after 10 o'clock at night.

And he says other drivers are doing the same.

Jabed - who you heard from in that film - is here now.

And as we were hearing, Jabed had acid thrown on him in the spate

of attacks three weeks ago, as he was riding home

And in a moment we'll speak to Dr Jessica Payne

from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine -

it's warning today that the public should be taught how to give first

Thank you so much for coming in, Jabed. It is an ongoing

investigation, we cannot talk about the details of what happened but how

have you been coping since it happened? Well, since the incident

happened, I am really scared to go out by myself, and with my family as

well. I feel unsafe, I always lock my car doors and windows. If I see

something going past, I get scared. I feel like something maybe will

happen again. Can you imagine going back to work at any point in the

near future? Yes, I love my job, I love what I'm doing because it is

flexible. As I said, I love my job and I want to go back. But, there

are safety concerns. It is not safe, for me. I do not think I'm going to

be back until it is safe. Until this happened, did you ever have fears

for your safety? I understand you've done this job for five years? Four

or five years. Until this happened, did you have concerns before? No, I

was free to work anywhere I used to go. From one o'clock, 12 o'clock, it

did not matter. I would go everywhere. I did not have problems

before. I never struggled like that before. Recently, even with the bike

crimes, it goes over the limit now. So, we want to speak to the mayor

and spoke to local mayors, like John Wicks of Tower Hamlets. He told us

to speak to the police. It is going over the limit now. We did not get

any results. What do you think should be done? Well, we need to

start at the bottom. If you think, we are going to arrest them, and

then you've released them, what is the point? If they are released

without charge. We need to get a proper law for that. They should be

in prison. So, tougher penalties? Doctor Payne, what is your response

to the recent rise in so-called acid attacks? I suppose there is a

professional and personal response. I live and work in north-east

London, so I share the concerns of the community that I work for. I

lock my doors on the way home and roll up my windows now. From a

professional point of view, I think it is important that we try and

disseminate the knowledge of how to manage these attacks, if you see

them on the streets. And, we wrote an article published in the British

medical Journal, to increase awareness among the medical

community of the increase and frequency of which we see these

attacks at the moment. And we are hearing about, it was commented on

today, is the fact that we hear about these incidents more, is that

part of the problem in terms of triggering copycat incidents? I do

not think so. I think that actually having more awareness of these

attacks is a good thing. It means that the public have a heightened

awareness of what to do if they were to witness something like this. And

I think these attacks have been happening for the last six months,

and increasingly so. So it is probably just now that we are seeing

this coming through in the press. What should people do? Firstly call

909, make sure it is safer you to approach. Be aware that you need to

protect yourself -- call 999. Avoid getting the corrosive substance on

your hands or yourself, encourage the person who is going to be in

pain and distressed to take off any items of clothing that might be

contaminated or jury that might be contaminated, and tried to irrigate,

wash, the areas affected with as much water as possible. That could

be a shower, it could be bottled water, for as long as possible until

it takes the emergency services to arrive. Thank you so much for coming

in to us. UberEats told us: "Couriers can log

in when and where they want, they are under no obligation

at all to deliver in an area "The safety of the couriers that

have signed up to UberEATS is our top priority and we don't

want anyone to feel unsafe That's one of the reasons

we don't set shifts or zones for them to operate in" On blocking:

"If you don't accept three requesst the system thinks you're taking

a break, so can log you off - but couriers just

need to log in again. There is no blocking

or anything like that." Still to come, do baby boxes

contribute to cot death? Should foster carers get

the same employment rights A couple in Glasgow who have been

working as foster carers for six years have won the right to be

classed as employees Their skills are very specialised -

and the judgment would not apply However, it does raise the question

about the nature of the work that foster carers do and the rights

they should be entitled to. We can speak now to Jimmy Johnstone

- the foster carer in Glasgow Also here is Jenny Poultney

who was in foster care And Andy Elvin - the chief

executive of the Adolescent Why did you decide to take the

action in the first place? We did not decide to take action, it was

Jimmy. He felt in his particular situation that he was an employee,

and having looked at the case I would agree with him, in his

particular situation, he was an employee. The council had advertised

the foster care is to join into the sea man had advertised a salary, and

as soon as you say that, you are in tune in their is an

employer-employee relationship but what he was doing was a very

specialised programme for particularly young people and a very

successful programme hopefully but that is not what foster care

generally is. Foster care generally is not being involved in that kind

of specialist activity, it is looking after vulnerable children.

And there is an issue with employment rights, because the

self-employment status is important to a lot of foster carers, they are

independent of the agency they work for. They can say no to a placement

if they think it is not right for them or their child. As an employee

you have much less right to say no to a reasonable request from your

manager and the resources something magical about foster care that is

lost if young people think that the person looking after them is looking

after them because it is their job. If they then have paid holiday, what

are they having holiday from, me, the child. It is not something you

want to have the say to young people. We do not value people who

care enough, and allowances for foster carers, and this is the

allowance to cover the costs of raising a child in your house, often

they are not high enough. The feed to pay for the expertise of the

foster carer is often not at the right level, particularly as minimum

wage goes up this will be increasingly an issue. But those

things can all be sold without going into an employer-employee

relationship, which I think would destroy something magical and unique

about foster care. Let's here from Jimmy, why did you bring about this

case in the first place, why did you want to be an employee? Hello,

thanks Andy for saying some of the nice things you said. About foster

care. It was because a virginity of care as a workforce.

We complained, ask for support and ultimately we were victimised and

harassed. We had no other direction to go. We took legal action, that is

why this came about. For people who don't know, how is your job as a

foster carer, both of your jobs, how is that different to most other

foster carers? We have been in a treatment foster care work. As Andy

says, we do get a salary, that is what is different. Fundamentally

there is no difference. In the judgment that our tribunal has

stated, the judge has stated the level of control over us as foster

carers, and that is a fundamental, that is part of being a foster

carer. So although we have a salary, we have holidays, that is slightly

different but fundamentally we are just foster carers, same as any

other foster carer. I want to bring Jenny into the conversation, good

morning. Morning. Can you tell us about your experience of growing up

with foster parents? I've had good experiences and bad experiences,

mostly good. I think I was fortunate enough to find the right path, that

unfortunately some of my own siblings haven't had the same

opportunities that I have had. That the same time, when you are a job in

that situation, being seen in that position as a job is not

appropriate. Why not? Because you feel like a job. You go into care

and you want to fit income you want to be part of a family. To be seen

as a job causes emotional difficulties. Do you think that

people who go into foster care, some people are motivated then by money,

and that's bad, and has that been your experience? Not so much my

experience but I have seen that within my own family. I believe you

take on a child, you want to have them brought up the way he would

bring your own kids up, but when you are so obviously treated

differently, it has an impact. It has an impact on the child, as to

how they are brought up, what part they take. Jimmy, do you understand

the point there could be for other people a danger of it becoming a job

if you become an employee, or if foster carers become employees? It

is more than a job. Howdy respond to Jenny's comments? I am sorry that

you have found some of these things you are not happy with. Foster care

work is the same type of work as residential care work. You have

young people in residential homes, and they are in care. Foster care

workers are doing a job just as anyone else in this country. The

fundamental problem is they don't have any rights. This leads to a

chronic shortage of foster care in the UK. You have to ask yourself

why. It is part of these rights. It is a 24-7 job, isn't that the point

com you don't just clock off at a certain time, which I'm sure you

don't, but that is the difference? That is the difference but of the

day it is a job. To help us do our job better, and if we had rights to

represent ourselves, and the money issue, that is a side issue, this is

a bit duty of care towards a set of workers. You have people leaving

foster care work because they have had enough, they are not supported,

they have not got access to anything, they are not respected.

Things are changing. 20, 30 years ago, providing a bed for a young

person, these things have changed. We are a highly skilled workforce,

we have to gain professional qualifications, that is

across-the-board. Things have changed now, we need help to carry

out this job. There is a chronic shortage of foster care workers and

you have to ask why. Thank you for now. Andy, can you see why foster

carers need support and they need to have rights, sometimes the same

rights employees would have elsewhere? Absolutely, I just want

to correct if you things, there isn't a chronic shortage of foster

carers who stopped there is a shortage of foster carers for

particular groups of children, for teenagers, 13 and 14 euros coming

into care. We need the sibling groups, and for parent and child

placements where the parent is placed with a young baby in a foster

care placement but generally there is not a chronic shortage of foster

carers. Foster carers are heroes of the state, they do an astonishing

piece of work, an astonishing role for young people, they transform

young people. They work on shifts. You are replicating general

population families, you go on holiday with your foster children,

you involve your foster children in the things you do as a family and

that is the most important thing to foster children, they feel part of

something, they feel valued, cared for and loved. Having an employment

employer relationship is very dangerous, because we might kill

what is magical about foster care, and foster carers are independent,

they can refuse placements when they are not employed. They can push back

against social workers and their fostering agency because they are

independent of us. There are mechanisms to our own agencies for

them to protest about actions towards them, if they work for the

local authority, they can work to a local authority, they can go through

the local authority complaints process the same as anyone else.

These things can be done. Yes, this is absolutely right that support for

foster carers is not good enough in some places, training and support

needs to be better. Our allowances high enough, generally no. They need

to be higher. I just want to read out one comment that has come on

from Ashley on twitter. He says fostering should not be a job, it

should be a way of life. You don't put your own child in the respite to

go on holiday, so a similar one to the point you made. A spokesman for

Glasgow City Council, we can give you now.

Of This Decision And It Would Be Inappropriate To Comment On This

"However, We Do Note That The Employment Judge Has

Explicitly Made Clear That His Findings In This Case

Do Not Extend To The Status Of Mainstream Foster Carers."

If you're flying to Europe in the next few weeks then you're

undoubtedly worried about reports of people queuing for

hours passport control - and in some cases missing flights.

Tighter security checks were brought in for those entering and leaving 26

European countries because of recent terror attacks, with many holiday

destination airports unprepared and under-staffed to cope

with the greater scrutiny of passports and visas.

And with more people travelling throughout August,

Thomas Reynaert is Managing Director of 'Airlines for Europe' -

a lobby group setup by Easyjet, Ryanair, British Airways

A very good morning to you. Good morning, Tina. How bad is the

situation? First of all, safety and security very important to us and

our passengers, we do understand Mike governments are putting into

place these measures again, just having them implemented properly.

That is one thing. According to our latest report unfortunately it

doesn't look like the situation is traumatically improving. We know

that some of the national governments basically said they

would put more staffing resources and other resources into improving

the situation, but we haven't seen any dramatic changes unfortunately.

This is the busiest week of the holiday season, can you talk to us

about the impact it has had on flights and people who are trying to

travel? First of all people having to queue much longer than expected,

sometimes more than double. We have seen extreme cases in summer the

airports of up to four hours queueing just to get through border

control. Just because staffing wasn't there. That is one thing.

People queueing a long time. I have seen hundreds of flights from

airline members being delayed, with an average delay of 30 minutes. But

you can see what kind of operation or disruption this is causing.

Passengers are really annoyed because of this. How much influence

can we have, can the government have, on the other countries that

are worst affected? I know the aviation Minister has called up to

say this is not good enough, can you speed this up, but actually how much

influence the rehab? These discussions are ongoing among

governments, the sad thing is, the governments involved knew this was

going to happen for more than many months ago. Since the regulation has

been officially put in place in April, member states have six months

to implement it. Not even all of the member states have implemented the

regulation which is worrying. Come October, when all member states are

meant to implement this, we may see more trouble. So, the only thing

member states can do is to make sure that, as they have committed to

earlier this year, is to have the proper resources. I'm thinking

mainly staffing resources but also technology and commitment resources

for people for the immigration service to do their job properly.

More resources are urgently needed, especially in holiday destinations,

and we have a peek, as you say, this week. It will not be easier for

people to travel due to these problems. It isn't going to get any

better any time soon, then? What advice would you have for

passengers? As you may have heard from travel agents so far, check

with your airline if you want to be sure, but we have seen some airlines

recommending people come three hours in advance to the airport, just to

give you an idea. Thank you. With the news, here's Ben

in the BBC Newsroom. Some mental health patients

are waiting three years to be discharged from hospital,

despite being medically Figures, obtained by the BBC

through freedom of information requests, show that at least five

patients waited more Meanwhile, hundreds more have been

waiting for more than six months. Children from the very poorest

families in some parts of England are continuing to fall further

behind at school. The Education Policy Institute says

by the end of secondary school, the most disadvantaged children can

be two years behind their peers. The government says it's directing

an extra 72-million-pounds The Venezuelan President,

Nicolas Maduro, has dismissed allegations of fraud

in the country's controversial A company based in London

responsible for providing the voting system -

has claimed electoral authorities inflated the turn-out figure

by at least 1 million. The opposition has called for more

mass demonstrations. Residents of a North London tower

block have told the BBC that urgent safety work carried out in the wake

of the Grenfell Tower disaster People living on the Chalcots Estate

in Camden were among about 3000 people who were told

to leave their homes, with only a few hours

notice, six weeks ago. The work was carried

out by Camden Council, which has told the BBC it's now been

signed off by Building Control That's a summary of the news this

morning, join me at 11 o'clock on the BBC News Channel.

Some comments on foster carers, Claire says that foster carers do

not clock on and clock off, it is a full-time job, 24/7, difficult but

very rewarding. Another says they have been in foster care and each

individual circumstances different so sometimes it could be considered

a job, sometimes not. Thank you very much indeed. Time for a look at the

sport with Leah. Former world heavyweight champion

Wladimir Klitschko has It had been expected the 41-year-old

would announce a re-match with Anthony Joshua -

who beat him at Wembley in April He'll become the world's most

expensive footballer when Neymar's expected

to complete his transfer from Barcelona to Paris Saint Germain

for just under 200 million pounds. He's likely to earn three quarters

of a million pounds a week. We're less than 11 hours away now

from England's Euro 2017 semi final Manager Mark Sampson

says their mission isn't just to become the best team in Europe -

but the best team in the world. James Forrest scored the only goal

of the game to take Celtic into the play-off rounds

of the Champions League. They won 1-0 against

Rosenborg last night. The draw for the playoff

round will take place tomorrow. That's all from us for now, back to

you, Tina. Thank you, Leah. A cot death charity has raised

concerns over the use of Finnish-style baby boxes,

which babies can sleep in. Issuing new advice to parents,

the Lullaby Trust said there was no evidence baby boxes reduced the rate

of sudden infant death syndrome. The cardboard box, filled with baby

products and a mattress, can itself be used as a bed,

and has been given to new parents executive of the Lullaby Trust,

by Francine Bates, the Chief who is a parent who used

a baby box for her son. Welcome, why have you changed your

advice? We haven't changed it, but we have issued new advice. Not

necessarily with baby boxes, they have become very popular, there are

a lot of companies selling them online and selling them in shops, as

you have said. There are also NHS professionals giving them out to

parents. Free of charge. Because they have become so popular, we

felt, as the leading SIDS charity in the country, we should investigate,

and see if the claims that they would reduce sudden infant death

syndrome were correct or not. We do have concerns that some of the hype,

if you like, surrounding baby boxes has become exaggerated so we wanted

to put the record straight. Specifically, what are those

concerns? That the company is promoting baby boxes say that this

is a box used in Finland and in Finland, they have seen a

significant drop in SIDS and infant mortality. It is true that Finland

has a drop-in infant mortality, it has one of the best rates in the

world but the Finnish government themselves have just tweeted

recently and have stated that there are a multiplicity of factors as to

why infant mortality is lower in Finland, and it isn't just to do

with the box. The second issue is, there are no safety standards

anywhere in the world that cover a cardboard box to place your baby to

sleep in. We feel very strongly that if we are going to promote baby

boxes, if they are to become popular, we should work with

manufacturers and retailers to bring in a standard which specifically

covers the cardboard box as a safety standard. Isn't it better than

nothing, if you aren't using anything? We would certainly agree

that using a cardboard box would be better than nothing at all, like

putting your baby on a bean bag or sleeping on the sofa with your baby,

which has a very high risk in relation to SIDS. Our advice still

is that the best place to put your baby to sleep is a cot or a Moses

basket, certainly at night, beside your bed for the first six months,

in the same room. And what are your experiences of using a baby box? And

your response to Francine's comments? Well, we got our box from

Finland, it was brought in by my parents from Finland. We didn't use

any English scheme, I cannot comment on those. We were very happy, it's

the traditional thing to do back home. That is why we wanted it. Our

son slept in it for the first five months, at night-time, for naps. The

box was placed next to our bed, on my side, and I was able to reach for

him, and feed him whenever he needed. We were quite happy with it.

What Francine was saying, and all of the comments I have read online, I

tend to agree. The box itself, I do not think would make any difference.

It has to be looked at in context. As it was done in Finland, that was

basically the way of getting people into antenatal care, in their 30s,

when we start. It is not just the box, it is a lot of other things.

And going back to Finland, like you were saying, the lowest infant

mortality rates in the world, according to the UN, this box scheme

will be rolled out for all newborns across Scotland, and some areas in

England give out the boxes, does it worry you? The Scottish Government

decided to roll out their box programme. We do not cover Scotland,

we are not involved in the programme. I understand the box that

they will be using is of very high quality. But, what we are concerned

about is that parents are not bamboozled by too much slick

marketing. I completely agree that it is a range of different factors

that have led to the amazing result in Finland in relation to infant

mortality. We should not just focus on the box as to the reason why

infant mortality is low in Finland. There are a lot of factors and in

this country we need to provide comprehensive advice to all parents

about safer sleep and ensure parents get the support they need in those

first crucial weeks when their baby is born. Thank you to both of you.

The baby box company who manufacture the box for some NHS trusts say that

these box exceed UK standards for cribs and cradles and add their baby

boxes have been used in Finland for 80 years, and since their

introduction, Finland has seen a dramatic reduction in infant

mortality rates, which we have just been discussing. Game Of Thrones

actor Kit Harrington has called upon the government to fund six years

backpay for overnight carers. If charities had to pay up instead, he

fears people such as his cousin, Lauren, who has down syndrome and

autism, could suffer as a result. Back to baby boxes, I am joined from

our Aberdeen studio by the Scottish Government minister for childcare

and early years, Mark McDonald. Thank you for joining us. In terms

of what we have just been talking about, do have concerns about the

introduction of baby boxes in Scotland this month? It is important

parents in Scotland, who will receive these boxes as of the 15th

of this month, recognise we've put a lot of work in in Scotland into

ensuring we meet the highest possible standards in relation to

these boxes and we have secured the British safety standard

accreditation for domestic cribs, for the Scottish baby box. We have

positive feedback for organisations like the Royal College of Midwives

in Scotland about the ability of these boxes to promote safe

sleeping. It is really important, as we roll out the baby box nationally

in Scotland, is parents have that reassurance. I suppose parents in

Scotland could be concerned, if they are hearing today, that Francine

Bates, the chief executive from the Lullaby Trust, that these were being

marketed as products to reduce sudden infant death syndrome. They

have issued new advice, what would you say to them? I think that is a

distinction between the commercially available baby boxes, which are