02/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello. It's Wednesday.

It's 9am. I'm Tina Daheley in for Victoria.

Throughout the programme this morning we'll bring you the latest

breaking news and developing stories - and, as always,

A little later in the programme we'll speak to Olympic gold

medallist Adam Peaty who keeps breaking world records in the pool

and is on track to become one of the greatest swimmers

If you've got a question for him - or would like to speak to him

direct - do get in touch - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

Our top story today, recent unrest in English and Welsh

jails is causing "grave concern", according to the Prison

In an open letter, the President of the organisation said governors

The letter comes after two days of unrest at The Mount

There have been days of disorder at prisons Wiltshire

and Hertfordshire where riot trained officers were deployed

This past year has brought an average of 20 attacks a day

on staff in prisons in England and Wales, following a decline

in the number of prison officers over the past few years

Now the President of Prison Governors' Association

is publicly blaming the Government for what she calls a crisis in many

jails and unacceptable stress and anxiety amongst workers.

In an open letter to prison governors, Andrea Albutt says

the State has failed to help them cope with population

pressures in prison, having changed the way the prisons

Ms Albutt says the Government's decision taken earlier this year

to separate operational control of the prison system

from responsibility for policy was madness, leaving a gaping hole

The Ministry of Justice says it recognises the long-standing

challenges facing prisons and that it's recruiting more officers.

But with only 75 more in place since last year,

Ms Albutt said recruitment remains in a critical condition.

Dan Johnson is here. Dan, how bad is it?

This letter makes clear that things are in a state of crisis. Had this

is a really strongly worded letter to, it is an open letter, but

directed at the Ministry of Justice highlighting what she feels they

need to put right. She talks of a crisis. She says there is concerted

indiscipline and a toxic mix that doesn't have a quick mix and the

future looks we'll suffer more of the same. She says recruitment

remains critical. She talks about the selection process which is

allowing many unsuitable people through. She says the quality of

training is poor and new recruits can add to the instability of

prisons. She says she is devastated at the complete decline of our

service and that is why, that would seem to be her explanation, for what

we have seen repeated disorder during over the last couple of days.

Repeated disorder at the Mount Prison and we have seen trouble at

other prisons. There is widespread agreement that our prisons are in

crisis and something needs to change. In response to the open

letter, what are the Ministry of Justice saying? We have a statement

from the Ministry of Justice. They've addressed the issue that

Andrea Albutt highlighted about the new system they have put in place

and the way they have split operational control with the way

policy is set. They say that the creation of this new prison and

Probation Service was designed to help create a professionalised front

line service. They say they know that prisons have faced a number of

long-standing challenges which is why they have taken action to boost

prison officer numbers, but Andrea Albutt says that's not increasing

quickly enough. They say they need a calm environment, but she is clear

that's not happening at the minute. Dan, thank you very much indeed.

We'll hear from the president of the Prison Governors

If you work in a prison or have direct experience of them, we are

really keen to hear from you this morning. Please get in touch.

Ben Brown is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

The Duke of Edinburgh will carry out his final public engagement this

afternoon before he retires from official royal duties.

Prince Philip, who is 96-years-old, will attend a parade

In May it was announced he would be retiring after spending more

than six decades supporting the Queen as well as attending

events for his own charities and organisations.

Here's our royal correspondent, Nicholas Witchell.

He has been a familiar and sometimes forthright feature of national life

ever since his marriage to the then Princess Elizabeth in November 1947

and although his robust approach to people and events has sometimes

got him into trouble, few can criticise his devotion

to royal duty, most often in support of the Queen, but also

in pursuit of his own separate programme, supporting issues

like the environment and the development of the awards

programme for young people which he created and

But this afternoon it will come to an end.

The Duke, who was 96 in June, will attend his last solo

engagement, a parade by the Royal Marines on the

It's not a complete retirement from public life.

The Duke may still accompany the Queen to certain events,

but after more than 22,000 solo engagements and moe

than 600 solo overseas visits since the Queen came

to the throne, it does mark a significant moment both

No longer will she have her husband at her side for most

of her public appearances, other younger members

of the Royal Family will take his place,

as the self-declared leading plaque unveiler in the world finally takes

A BBC investigation has found a growing shortfall in the number

of beds needed to care for elderly people across the UK.

By the end of next year, it's predicted that up to 3,000 people

won't be able to find a place in a care home.

The Association of Directors of Adult Social Services is calling

for more money to be spent on nurses and carers so people can receive

More than one million women in their early 60s are worse off

financially as a result of the increase in the state pension

The Institute for Fiscal Studies found that raising the age from 60

to 63 was saving the Government ?5 billion a year.

But those affected were losing more than ?30 a week on average.

The Department for Work and Pensions says the changes are fair

There are calls to renationalise probation services following a rise

in the number of supervised offenders charged

A total of 517 reviews were triggered in the last year

after an offender on probation was charged with murder,

manslaughter, rape or other serious offences.

Three years ago the Government changed the way probation services

were run in 2014, creating the National Probation Service

to deal with high-risk offenders with the rest being supervised by 21

new Community Rehabilitation Companies.

The charity, Save the Children, says more than a million children

in Yemen are at higher risk of dying from cholera.

Two years of civil war has led to severe humanitarian crisis

with the country on the brink of famine and nearly 500,000 people

America is not seeking to invade North Korea

or oust its leader Kim Jong-Un, according to its Secretary

He was speaking after a senior Republican senator said

that President Trump considered going to war as an option.

Last week North Korea carried out a second test

of an intercontinental ballistic missile in defiance

Police looking for the missing airman, Corrie McKeague,

say they're examining whether material found

at an incinerator plant in Ipswich is linked to him.

The 23-year-old was last seen near a bin loading bay

following a night out in Suffolk last September.

Police ended a 20-week search of a nearby landfill site last month.

Kanye West's touring company is suing Lloyd's of London

for nearly ?8 million over the rapper's cancelled gigs.

Very Good Touring said in a legal document that the insurers have

implied they can refuse to pay out by claiming his mental health issues

West was forced to cancel the remaining 21 dates of his tour

last year after falling ill and was treated at a psychiatric

Well, that's a summary of our news. More from me at 9.30am.

We will have more on the Kanye West story before 10am.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

Let's get some sport now with Katherine Downes.

And, Kat, everyone's gearing up for the return of Usain Bolt

Yes, sadly we have just a matter of days now, don't we, before we can

refer to Usain Bolt as a forlter athlete. After the World

Championships in London he will be retiring from the sport and what a

legacy, he will leave. Eight Olympic gold medals and three world records

including the 9.58 and here he is posing with his normal flamboyant

personality. He said that he hopes that those world records will last

for years and years to come so that he can boast to any future children

that he may have that one day their dad was the greatest ever. He has

been, hasn't he? Athletics and sport in general will lose its brightest

star in decades once he bows out after the World Championships in

London. A man who not only set records and won records, but stood

as a beacon of integrity and honesty. The shadow of the problem

of doping within its ranks and many of Bolt's sporting rivals have

succumbed to that temptation, mo recently his team-mate, Nester

Carter. He is appealing against that decision, but here is what Usain

Bolt had to say about the threat of doping in his sport.

We made changes and the sport pretty much hit rock bottom last season, a

couple of seasons ago. Now it's moving forward. I think it's going

in the right direction. As long as athletes understand, if they keep

this up, the sport will die and they won't have a job. Hopefully the

athlete also understand that and that they will help the sport move

forward. Will he go out on a high? Wherever

he races and whom ever he races, you want him to win. Six athletes have

run faster than him over the 100 meters this year, but Bolt says he

is still the greatest and he is ready to take on the world once

again. I'm excited now. This is the moment I'm looking forward to. I

think after the race, or during the race, then the emotioning will come

out, it depends on how the crowd reacts. If there is 1,000 cheering,

I will be happy, but they always find ways of get emotions out of

you. Yes, it is the last race. I come in here focussed and ready to

go as always. As I said over the years, I try not to put extra

pressure on myself. I'm focussed on getting the job done and that's what

I'm going to do. Usain Bolt gets his final World

Championships under way on Friday and you will be able to see Sir Mo

Farah in action on Friday as well in the 10,000 meters. So a big opening

day of the World Championships. I'm looking forward to that.

And, Kat, you've got some outstanding baseball

They are spectacular. At a baseball game between the Cleveland Indians

and the Boston Red Soc, look at this catch. Over the barrier from Austin

Jackson. This has been talked about on the internet as the best catch

ever in baseball. Let's look at it from another angle. That does count

as a catch. You can see the official just checking that it counts. The

rules are complicated, but it does count as a catch. Is it the best

ever? I haven't seen anything better than that, Kat, I have to admit.

That was incredible. Thank you very much. No problem.

Only a month ago, this programme reported that the quality of care

for the elderly in the UK was approaching a "tipping point."

The care watchdog - the Care Quality Commission -

said that a quarter of all care homes were not safe enough.

Now new figures suggest there is also a huge shortfall

The data commissioned by BBC Radio 4's You and Yours programme

from property consultants JLL suggests that in nine years,

the shortfall could be more than 70,000 beds,

based on the expected growth of demand.

Up to 3,000 elderly people won't be able to get beds in care

homes because of growing demand by the end of next year.

And it's already a problem for some now.

We can speak to Catherine Bond, who's here with her

It took Catherine's family seven months to find a space

in a care home for her mother Elizabeth, who is 93.

Amanda Waring cared for her parents in her own home,

and wrote a book called The Carer's Bible.

She thinks we need to face up to the reality that in the future

we'll need to look after the elderly more in our own homes.

Her aunt - seen here on her 90th birthday - and her cousin

both live in a care home in Bradford which is closing down.

And in our Salford studio is Ryan Godwin who owns

Welcome to the programme. Catherine, let's start with you. Why did it

take seven months? My mother had been living with us. She was

diagnosed with vascular dementia in 2012, so she moved to our home in

East London, from outside of the capital, so a completely new part of

the country for her. So we took it on ourselves to look after her, but

in 2016, early 2016, she came down with pneumonia and was admitted to

our local hospital, and essentially she was there for six months. She

was what I would describe as bed blocking, and during that time I was

campaigning to get a better care package for her, because she had

been receiving social services package from our local authority,

which had its shortfalls, and clearly it was very challenging for

our family, particularly for my children, having carers coming into

our home, it felt like an institution rather than a family

home after a while. Your mother Elizabeth, 93, was in hospital for

six months? That's right. Bed blocking, as you call it, because I

care home, a bed, wasn't available? It was to do really with the inertia

of the services. We were campaigning to try to get her a better package.

In the beginning we didn't know whether she would be coming back to

our home whether we would be able to get an alternative. What we did

know, during the time she was in hospital, she was only six, I would

say, for four weeks. In that time she lost the ability to walk, she

was losing her cognitive skills. She was not eating properly. Why? The

resources unfortunately were not there. It is not only the NHS, but

also the fact that a lot of agency staff, there is a very high turnover

of staff, so there was very little consistency, and physiotherapists

were not able to engage with her. As her daughter, living locally, I was

trying to liaise with them, perhaps to even help out with sessions, but

it just wasn't happening so she lost the ability to do many things, which

meant she no longer could have the package she had had before. For

example, she couldn't get out of bed without two people helping her. She

needed more help eating, she needed total help dressing and washing,

which meant our home, which is just a normal family home, we didn't have

the capacity in terms of space, layout, facilities, to look after

her. Sushi was in a worse state when she came home from hospital after

six months? -- so she was in a worse state. Absolutely. As part of my

campaigning to get better care, I ask the palliative care team to look

at her condition. What was a real problem for us, we never really knew

how my mother's illness was progressing. Essentially, dementia

is a terminal illness. We had very little support from our GP, very

little support from the elderly care consultants in our local hospital

before she was admitted to hospital or during that time. So apart from

the reading it I could do, perhaps reading books, maybe the Internet,

or talking to friends or colleagues with similar experiences, there was

very little knowledge that I had and it was very hard. My two children

are here today I have a younger son as well and he was four. And I

quickly ask you, Beatrice and Sam, what was it like having your

grandmother with you for that ten? I don't think it was very nice,

especially because at home there were so many issues around the

carers, lots of The Times in Ealing my parents were not with us, instead

they were having to call up the agencies, call up health care who

didn't really understand how to do their job properly, they had to sort

out issues, for example where carers had not looked after my grandmother

properly, had not on simple things I give her a proper meal, Tintera pad,

properly -- changed her pad. Me and my brothers were almost just stuck

in the middle of it and I know that my parents hate to think it but, and

it isn't their fault at all, but because my parents had to spend so

much time with my grandma and so much time trying to sort out all of

these issues around her, we really didn't get the right amount of time

with them when she was with us. Some people might think, Catherine, isn't

that what we are supposed to be doing, looking after our parents,

grandparents? That was my instinctive reaction. My mother was

a very capable lady until she was 87, living independently. She told

me she wanted to stay in her home. That could not happen because she

lived 60 miles from us and I am actually her only daughter. It was

just my instinct for me to take her in, as she had done for me as a

child. I will just bring in Sue. Thank you for joining us this

morning. Your 90-year-old aunt,

and your cousin who has early onset dementia,

are both in the same care home - but they're having to leave

because it's closing. Well, essentially, it is money.

Bradford Council did not make any secret of the fact that they could

no longer afford to fund a care home. We went through an extensive

consultation period, and quite a number of us who all have loved ones

in the same care home got together and we established an action group.

And we fought it and thought it, but I end of the day sadly Bradford

Council still made the decision to close the home, in spite of the fact

that we made several other offers, as a way of trying to keep the home

open, at least until the end of our loved ones' lives. What will you do,

Sue, what happens next? My aunty and my cousin have found alternative

care homes. And in theory, you know, we should be able to sit back and

relax knowing they will be safe in another care home, but actually in

reality this is where our worries really begin, because we don't know

how our loved ones are going to cope with this major change in their

life, because where they lived at home view it really was their home,

not just a care home. It was rated good by the CQC, and the staff

there, they really cared. They were trained, they had the expertise to

deal with dementia patients. And, you know, our loved ones don't

understand, they are not going to be able to comprehend why they have got

to move, and they have now got to somehow cope, and we, the loved

ones, are sort of sitting here just wondering what impact is going to be

on my cousin and my auntie, because none of us know. And from research

we know there are risks in terms of physical and mental health to older

people when they are moved from one care home to another. Sue, let's

speak to Ryan. You have owned and run a care home for many years. What

is the biggest challenge facing? Firstly, I would like to say I am

really sorry to hear about the experiences of the previous callers.

Because that is something which I think should concern us all. But I

think the biggest challenges we face, and this has been pointed out

really, are ones of funding, an ongoing problem. And it is blighting

people's ability to maintain the status of the industry. And I think

it is affecting the quality of care, and very sadly it seems, from what

has been said already on the programme, it is actually affecting

the sustainability of care homes going forward. Is there also a

problem with recruitment and getting people to work in that industry,

when in terms of reputation it has taken a bit of a battering? Am

afraid this is something we see. People come to me, to place their

parents into caring now, and that sad time can come, in any of our

lives, and they look at me was almost fear and trepidation in their

eyes, because of course they are hearing so many perhaps negative

stories of people having negative experiences, and it is making people

very unhappy about having to make that choice to place someone, their

loved one, into a care environment, for example. According to the

figures, one in 20 care homes closed in the last three years. Can you

explain why so many care homes are struggling to survive? Is it as

simple as money and funding? There is a greater expectation, quite

rightly, that the quality of care we offer people, particularly

surrounding the end of their life experience, which means that a lot

more input is needed and has to be needed to get a better outcome for

the people for whom we are caring, and that involves greater expense.

There is a great emphasis today on providing stimulating activities,

for people living in care homes so they can live well with their

dementia, but live well with it, and get good outcomes. Unfortunately,

all of these things cost money. And the funding is not there to pay

for this. Also, what is very important for you to try to

understand, the banks are stopping lending money to people who might

want to buy a care home, so there is a generation of people who own care

homes today working on ancient traditional goodwill, built up

perhaps over years, and the fact it has been in the family for a number

of years, if there is no want to pass on the care home too, of course

when it comes to the end of their business life, which catches up with

all of us, when I go to care meetings, I am a youngster

amongst... You know, I feel like a teenager again, and when people come

to retire, of course they are selling the care home and it is no

longer a care home but turning into, you know, a car park are block of

flats. OK, I will read out some messages that have come in. Martin

from Swindon has e-mailed us. "The Reasons why our care homes are in

crisis is because of savage cuts in funding by the Government since 2010

as the problem with conservatism is you eventually run out of other

people's money." A solicitor has sent in this tweet. "Hearing about

the tipping point for our elderly and most vulnerable is sadly

something I hear about from my clients every day." You have written

a book, Amanda, The Carer's Bible, and as we are hearing residential

care places are increasingly difficult to find, and a shortfall

predicted. Is this something more of us should expect in the future? It

is, and like you said it is that feeling of loving care, the love you

have been given or perhaps not been given, as a society we will have to

look at how we generate compassionate care for all ages, and

I think at the moment elders have been seen as a separate entity, as

opposed to understanding that we all hold the seat of the older person we

are going to become right now. You know, there is no difference -- we

all hold the seed of the older person we are going to become. We

need to try to understand that. How do we regenerate compassion?

Haddioui inspire new carers like these beautiful young guys here to

actually want to go into care? Because to care for somebody in your

own home, took care for somebody until the point of dying, it is

challenging but it is so rewarding, and so healing, allowing us to

connect with something in ourselves we might never have had the

opportunity to do. In an ideal world, that sounds great. We would

love to be able to look after our parents in their old age, but

practically for a lot of people it is not possible. They may not have

the space, the facilities, and the time, they may live too far away.

Absolutely, and this is why we need to look at other situations. In

Holland they are looking at places where they have elders living with

university students, and that combined, really don't have

terrifyingly difficult leads, but there is enough, with that

loneliness, the support -- terrifying the difficult needs, but

there is enough support. With a whole, other people around them

supporting them. We will have to look at different paradigms around

care homes if care homes are now not going to be funded and worked in the

same way. But while doing it well they're not be another crisis point

being delayed, children later in life, with that problem where

families having to look after young children will have to look after old

appearance at the same time? That is that thing with the sandwich

generation and is exactly what I had with my dad, being a single mum,

left in tears, thinking, I can't cope, because my father was too

violent and aggressive to go into any care setting so I was left in

that middle ground, so I do understand that and that is why I

suppose our passion, writing about ways to support, because if you are

looking after a loved one in your home, you need all that emotional

support, and people need to know what it takes to go through that and

how to deliver the most best loving heartfelt care, because it is not

just pie in the sky. We are talking about a personal possibility for the

future for all of us. Catherine, can you cut back on that -- they want to

come back on? I can only agree. Absolutely. I have never felt so

middle-aged in my life. I am absolutely in the middle. My mother

had me quite late, when she was 41, and I feel very blessed she is still

with us, but we have had the emotional challenges, the logistics.

I have been pretty much working full-time for all of this. My

husband actually took some time out and became my mother's official

carer will she was with us but it did have a cost on our family. We

look for support outside the family home, got some support from the

old-timers society, and there was no support relief from our local

authority. -- the society. If she was a McIlorum she

was in my mother would have had a very different experience. We were

very fortunate to have in the -- if my mother had been in the care home

at this point she would have had a different experience. The funding

situation that has been talked about, it is very different.

Different in a local authority or NHS care on and it is different in a

privately run care. Thank you. We will have to leave it there. But

good to end on a positive note. Thank you all for sharing your

stories with us, and please shares your s as well. You can get in touch

on the usual ways. The number

of offenders who commit serious crimes like murder and rape

whilst on probation has risen by 25% since parts of the probation service

were privatised three years ago. So is there a link?

We'll try and find out. The latest Newsbeat documentary

looks at children whose parents tell them they are gay. We will look at

the impact on families. Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. The President of the Prison

Governors Association has attacked the government over its management

of prisons in England and Wales. Andrea Albutt said

members had been left "devastated" at what she called

"the complete decline The Ministry of Justice says it's

dealing with long-term There are calls to renationalise

probation services following a rise in the number of supervised

offenders charged 517 reviews were triggered

in the past year after an offender on probation

was charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or

other serious offences. The Duke of Edinburgh will carry

out his final public engagement this afternoon before

he retires from royal duty. Prince Philip, who is 96,

will attend a parade by the Royal Marines,

just two months after it was announced he'd be stepping

aside from public life. A BBC investigation has found

a growing shortfall in the number of beds needed to care

for elderly people. By the end of next year it's

predicted that up to 3,000 people won't be able to find a place

in a care home. The Association of Directors

of Adult Social Services is calling for more money to be spent on nurses

and carers - so people can receive That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10am. We have had abe-mail from Gerry. He

says, "I have served ten years in prison and have seen and understand

the problem of staff shortages. The dangers of drugs, violence and

suicide is a terrible price to pay for cutbacks." If you work in a

prison and know what it's like, please get in touch and share your

experiences with us. Here's some sport now

with Katherine Downes. One of sports biggest stars,

Usain Bolt, has issued a stark warning ahead of the final races

of his career. The eight-time Olympic

champion will retire after the World Championships

in London which begin this weekend, has told the BBC that athletics

"will die" if doping England goalkeeper Karen Bardsley

will miss the rest of Women's Euro 2017 after breaking her leg

in Sunday's quarter-final Siobhan Chamberlain is now likely

to step in to face the Netherlands There's another injury scare

for Daniel Sturridge. The Liverpool striker scored,

but then went off injured in a pre-season friendly

against Bayern Munich in Germany. Manager Jurgen Klopp says he hopes

"it is isn't serious". And Barcelona

have given Neymar permission to miss training today and has been told

to "sort out his future". A rumoured ?198 million move

to Paris St Germain looks Next, coming out to

your children as gay. Around 20,000 kids are thought

to live with gay parents, many of whom were originally

in straight relationships. So what's it like when a parent

tells you they're gay? Well, Jillian Stewart was just four

years old when her mum It's not something she remembers

very well, but she's aware of the impact it had

on her older siblings. So, 20 years on, she's been speaking

to her two Mums and brother and sisters about what it's

like when parents come It's part of Newsbeat's latest

documentary My Lesbian Mums. You could try my new drink, organic,

it's very good for you. This is the house where

our family grew up. My mum moved in here

with Gerry 17 years ago. With Gerry, came three

big sisters for me. Here we have some pictures of me

and my brother Jamie This is the picture of us posting

appeared because my mum always tried to make as people happy

and smiling together. Poor Jamie, he was the only boy

in the house apart from Rupert So I think I'm going to start my

journey of by speaking to him. I think it will be quite interesting

to see from a male perspective I think I was eight and I remember

Gerry coming over to the house quite a lot and Elaine being there,

playing football with her Then obviously, mum and dad split up

and then it was, OK. I feel like you always just find

the funny side of things, you make a joke of things and not

get sad or anything. I always look on the bright side

of life, as they say. What was that card you got mum, was

it for her birthday or something? Terrible, terrible

joke when I look back. 14-year-old me found it hilarious,

but 28-year-old me, not so much. Something I would tell all my

friends about you, the yearbook. More mummies than

an Egyptian pyramid. There's no point in

letting it get to you. I don't think I remember anybody

staring at us when we went out. We were so oblivious

to that sort of thing I was just there for the food.

A free dinner, you can't beat it. NO, I don't remember hearing any

whispers or any comments. There was no looking around,

or there was anyone watching us, Let's go out for dinner,

let's not care what people think. I also really liked how mum

and Gerry just held hands and didn't I feel like there's not

enough people doing that. If you are expecting me

to hold your hand right now, I know what you mean,

I think I've started seeing more people who have come out,

whatever, holding hands, Yeah, but back then

it was in such a big thing. What would your response be

to people who don't agree with the way that

we've been brought up? Why take the time out

to sort of chastise I mean, we wouldn't do

that to other people. And we've been dead lucky

in the sense that nobody Yes.

Definitely. There should be more love

in the world, not any more hating. I think Jamie found it

easier because he had He was confident enough to say

in his first introduction, There are four years

between Jamie and me, maybe being the youngest

made it easier. Elaine is a really

cool sister to have. She's a singer

and writes her own music. But being a few years older

than Jamie, she might remember our two families coming

together in more detail than we do. Do you remember your

mum coming out to you? I was sitting in the living room

and there was a card sitting on the couch from Susan to my mum

saying how much she loved her, And I was hysterical,

because complete news to me. I can remember exactly

what I was upset about, it turned out I was the last person

to know as well. And all her friends

were actually girl friends. I just remember that day,

finding out and I remember being in my school uniform

and I remember sitting on the couch. I think with you it was

probably a friend thing, I was so young, I was

just kind of like, OK. That's the difference,

if you are tiny, you can We don't understand

what the differences. They love each other and that's

all you need to know. It's interesting to hear

how different it is for That's just because society made me

believe that was such a bad thing and that's kind of the last thing

I remember about it, Elaine was a bit upset

when she realised, because she was a little bit older

and I think it was just... I think she felt as though I should

have told her earlier, so you can't always get

the timing right. I do regret that I hadn't

told her sooner, more explicitly. But we're fine with that now,

but it has taken time. How do you know when the timing

is right for each individual person? But Elaine had more to deal

with than just her mum One of her sisters came out

when she was a teenager. Marie wasn't able to take part

in this documentary. I thought I knew about my sister

being a lesbian before I found out about my mum and I was totally

fine with that. For some reason it was a bigger deal

because it was my mum. Awful, it was just constantly

being reminded of, just walking down the halls and people shouting,

"Your sister's a bean". I would just keep walking,

it was constant. I don't think I told anyone

about my mum and Susan, apart from my close friends

because I got so much abuse Yeah, why would you even put

yourself through that? I didn't talk to anybody

about anything. I just couldn't talk

to people generally. Do you think that's

why you were so shy? Yeah, because I just feel

like I lost every bit of confidence. Let's talk about something happy.

I know, it's hard. Yeah, I think everything changes

when you leave school, I didn't realise how

hard it was for you. Because we were at different points

in our life back them. It's probably quite good to show

that's how you actually felt No, it wasn't all happy,

but I wish I could talk about things without crying because then you can

actually say them out loud. Elaine struggled a lot more

than I did and it's clear there's not one right way

to tell your children. It must have been tough on our mums

though, all five of us were at different stages

of our lives. It was about each of them

individually and getting time with them and feeling

that the timing was right. For me, my fear was that

the children would be bullied. My two tell me that they didn't

face anything like that. That they felt totally

accepted and that our family Although Gillian and recently told

us that there were some remarks from schoolmates about having two

lesbian mothers and So I think at the time,

she probably was protecting us, to some extent, although we didn't

know about that. Although people will say to us, "Oh,

it's easy for gay couples now, compared to what it used to be,

you are totally accepted". Because there are still a lot

of parts of society across the world that, where it is illegal

in different countries still, or even in this country,

if you belong to a particularly religious group, whatever background

that might be and I'm not pointing the finger at one or another,

that might say that our I've had some horrendous

stuff on social media. Yes, being called an abomination

and other names like that. You don't know me, you don't know us

and our wonderful family because every single one of those

kids are wonderful and a bonus, they're a gift to society

and the world, every single And one of them, my elder sister

Ann, is running a successful Let's get a taxi to go and see Ann,

and I cannot wait to see her. So what do any sisters do

when they've not seen I never lived with her

because she was at university We rarely talk about the time before

we were just one family, but it's so hot, so time

for some rooftop drinking. I see that absolutely

anything is possible. I think it would be different

if people were horrible to me, or if I was bullied because of it

or I felt different. No - because I think I was 17, 18,

I was at university. It was actually kind of cool

to have lesbian parents. And it's like the whole time

of Friends and Ross. And I was like, hey,

my new mum's called Susan too. I think for my mum as well,

for having such young children, I think that would have been really

hard for her. Because you don't know

what fears are in your head So you don't know if legally

you can lose your children, What is the school

system going to say? Massive respect for them to have

done what they did back then. Yeah, because they really

were the first, there was no around to support them,

but then it's the kind of strength of the relationship

in that they managed it together. A lot of people wouldn't have been

able to survive that, I don't think. Elaine definitely has

struggled through school, I think she's actually

quite emotionally traumatised by what happened

to her in school. I don't think it was necessarily

about having two mums. She said that she never actually

told anyone in school because of how people reacted

to her sister coming out. It was clearly a very

unhappy time for her. I'm obviously understanding more

about it now, but where And she's so beautiful,

and creative. Our biggest fear was losing our

children because we were lesbians. But the general consensus

from all the children Us coming out and being together

is not the way the book And as a parent, that was the only

thing that we could do and give So, even if that was hard

at times, it was worth it. The full version of My Lesbian Mums

is available on BBC iPlayer. In it Jillian finds out what it's

like for parents coming out to their children in 2017

and whether or not parents still have the fears

as her mums did 20 years ago. There are calls for the Government

to renationalise probation services following what's described

as an "extremely worrying" rise in the number of supervised offenders

charged with serious crimes. Figures show an increase of 25%

in the number of offenders under probation committing serious

offences - including murder, Reforms introduced in 2014 saw

private firms take over the management of some low

and medium risk offenders. So is there a link between the rise

in crime and partial privatisation? With us in the studio

is Ian Lawrence who is the general secretary of NAPO, the national

association of parole officers. Bob Turney a former

offender who later became Matt Illic who works for the charity

and social business Catch 22 - Also, from Cardiff we can speak

to Nadine Marshall whose son Conner Welcome to the programme. Ian, let's

start with you. Did you see this coming? Our members, in the

probation Association, and the trade union as well, so our members are

working under appalling conditions as a result of privatisation and

they saw that a long time ago. We told ministers of that fact, we

submitted evidence to Parliament. We were among 500 organisations that

foretold problems with the privatisation. It is easy to make

the link between serious further offences, and our hearts go out all

the victims of those crimes, you have to look deeper than the figures

and at the operational models the Government has allowed to come into

play, by some private contractors, and there have been countless

reports from Her Majesty's inspectorate that they are not fit

for purpose in many cases. Let me read you the Ministry of Justice

statement. "In 2014 we reformed our approach to privation." So for the

first time ever all offenders are given a custodial sentence, received

privation support and supervision on release. "It Is therefore misleading

to compare the number of serious further offences prior to our

reforms with subsequent figures, as the number of people on probation is

now significantly higher than before." What is your response? They

would say that, wouldn't they? They did not reference the fact that the

inspectorate has described the system as non-effective, except for

putter-mac areas were some good work has been done, but that has

manifestly failed -- except for a few areas. Now the Government has

drawn ?22 million of taxpayers' cash at these. Our members are asking how

it will make an actual difference -- the Government has thrown the ?22

million. More offenders are committing war crimes on probation,

because more offenders are under probation supervision, surely? You

like you can look at it like that or also look at it as there are not as

many people in the prison receiving the support where it counts as well

as people in the community and that cannot be divorced from elsewhere.

If the system is not helping people to gear up for a return to society,

you will see more reoffending and serious offences. The reforms

extended the supervision to everyone serving a sentence under 12 months,

and that is the privatisation. Previously they were not supervised,

so if they offended they would not be counted in those figures. So we

are not comparing like-for-like. We said they should have been

supervised by the probation service before privatisation but we were

never given the money to do it. We never saw these people, as Bob will

tell you shortly. So 40,000 people coming out into society with

inadequate support and in many cases inadequate supervision as well.

Matt, either benefits with privatisation, in your opinion, from

your experience? To start with the figures, we work with 10,000 prison

leaders in the final weeks of their custodial sentence and for us it is

too early to say whether this programme has been a success or

failure. The first and official statistics are due later this year

and even the Government's National Audit Office says it is too early to

score, but I think it is absolutely right there is public scrutiny on

these issues. The report my colleague has talked about is

welcome and I think there are significant problems in the system

more widely. In terms of probation, privatisation, outsourcing, we would

say that there is not a right or wrong as to who delivers public

services, and we are a charity significantly involved. And actually

some of the best performing probation systems are the world are

voluntary. For example, the Japanese system, the probation system is made

up of volunteers, some 50,000 people. The early version of our own

probation system was volunteers. So I think there is not something

intrinsic to privatisation that has led to a lot of these failures. You

don't think renationalising that part of it will solve the problem

necessarily? Exactly. There were issues with probation before and I

think we have significant structural problems at the moment, both in

prisons and with probation, and I think the more public scrutiny and

pressure there is an government what the real issues have

been in the operating model and in the resource of this, that is the

really important debate to think about now as opposed to who is

involved. Bob, you spend time going in and out of prison and probation

worker helped to turn your life around and get your life together.

What do they do? I was one of the short recipients. Serving a year or

less, so I got a lot of supervision. You know, it stayed with me. We just

used to passing them around now, but there was no relationship. In my

time there was plenty of relationship and that is what

happened. When I really did get my act together, she inspired me to go

on to become a probation officer, because I knew it worked. But I

jumped ship just as it was going to change over to be privatised. It is

not the service when I went it in, that it was when I went in. When I

went in, 20% of my time was spent writing about this offender, and 80%

of the time working with the vendor. When I left it was completely

reversed. 80% of my time was taken up writing reports -- working with

the offender. And 20% spent working with the offender, and that is where

it has lost, where it has fallen down. All right, you have serious

offenders and sees teams looking after them, but the short time once

the ones who take up a lot of time and energy, a lot of people ask me,

what turned around your life? And I simply see, I stopped feeling sorry

for myself and started feeling sorry for my victims, and that is what we

were doing in probation, getting them to grow up and take response

ability. Do you think, Bob, you would be in this position now if

when you were dealing with probation officers you were dealing with a

privatised system? I don't think so. I like to think that I would but I

was getting a tremendous amount of support from my probation officer. A

tremendous amount. Let me bring Nadine into the conversation. Can

you tell us what happened to your son? Good morning. My son Connor was

18 and he was in protocol for one night only in March 2015 and he was

attacked from behind by a gentleman who I now know as David Bryden.

Connor subsequently died of his injuries four days later and his

attacker was charged with the murder. He has now been sentenced to

20 years in prison. So your son was killed by a man who was on

probation. What do you think about what we are hearing today, the link

between serious crime and privatisation. To be honest, I am

angered by the overall responses, whether from the panel or Government

departments. Why are you angry? There is an awful lot of talk about

re-offenders and the support given to them, however at the bottom of

this you have to remember there are victims and victims' families. We

don't have that luxury of any support. Any support we find, we

have to go looking for it. And don't forget, on top of that you're in the

midst of possibly a trial a police investigation, as well as the

trauma, as well as the stresses of trying to keep you ship afloat, when

the evidence is there that this system is just failing right from

the very top down and it is not being disseminated in the way that

it was supposedly made to transform these lives. What is your message?

What would you like to happen now? I want change, I want support for

families that are having to be included in this horrible offence of

serious offence. I want legislation from the top. The system is not

working. It is not fit for purpose at all and this was not the case in

2013 and it isn't the case now. Nadine, thank you very much for

speaking to us and thank you all as well.

Let's get the latest weather update with Carol.

Thank you. This morning has been a morning of mixed fortunes. Some

sunshine, rain, chilly start in the north of Scotland, temperatures

dipping into single figures and the temperatures are coming up quite

nicely in the sunshine now. The rain spreading into the South and west is

continuing to move northwards and will tend to fragment. Taking a look

at some of our Weather Watcher pictures from around the country,

you can see the rain we have had in Swanage, in Dorset, quite a lot,

heavy in the Southern counties of England. Contrast that with East

Yorkshire. Cloud around, but again dry, and the Highlands getting away

with some sunshine. You will hang onto that for much of the day. This

low pressure is driving our weather and it will continue to introduce

more rain through the course of the day and you can see from the squeeze

on the isobars, we're also looking at some windy conditions. Coastal

gales across the south-west, the rain continuing across the Channel

Islands and southern counties, and as it moves you will find it will

fragment so that between the rain there will be a fair bit of cloudy

time but also some sunny intervals. It will also be quite windy. This

afternoon after the rain has gone through the south-west of England,

there will be a hang back of cloud, but you will find in the wind that

cloud will break up and we will start to see improved. Rain on and

off across Wales, the same in north-western England. That rain

continuing to drift into southern Scotland, but by then it will be out

of Northern Ireland and you will have a return to sunshine, bright

spells and showers. There is that rain careering towards the Highlands

but the heavens themselves are staying dry and in some sunshine.

Into north-east England and south-east Scotland, still some of

that rain but then a lot of cloud is being pushed out into East Anglia.

Then back into the rain again. Across the south-east corner,

heading towards the Isle of Wight. To this evening and overnight, all

that rain pushing in the direction of the North Sea. It will rejuvenate

across the Channel Islands and the south-eastern quarter of England,

follow the Crow Road and you can see it ensconced in northern Scotland

and the Northern Isles. It will be a humid day and night, temperatures

dipping to 11 to 15-16 degrees. Behind this you can see showers

developing, some of those across Scotland and Northern Ireland will

be heavy and sundry with some hail. You're as we pushed down towards the

south of England. In the sunshine, out of the wind, 22 Celsius will

feel quite pleasant. Into Friday, our low-pressure centres in the

North Sea, all the show is coming around that, across Scotland, a few

in Northern Ireland and England, and you might see a few for the South

but generally the further east you travel, the better chance of staying

dry with bright pleasant temperatures.

I'm Tina Daheley in for Victoria Derbyshire.

Governors say they are devastated by the complete decline

One says hiring more prison staff had to be a priority.

We need to have people so we can stabilise our prisons before we even

start consider reforming them. One of the world's smallest babies

who beat the odds to survive She fitted into our hand. So that's

the size that she was. I was quite shocked when I saw her because I

don't know what I thought she was going to look like, but she did just

look like a baby and I wasn't expecting that and I remember

thinking when I looked at her, she looks like a baby, just small.

We will hear from Poppy's parents in the next half an hour.

Adam Peaty has done the double, double.

Also this hour - we'll be talking to British swimming champion

Adam Peaty about his success at the world

Adam Peaty will be live with us just after 10.30am. If you have got a

question for him, please get in touch.

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

Recent unrest in English and Welsh jails is causing "grave concern",

according to the President of the Prison Governors Association.

In an open letter, Andrea Albutt said that members had been left

"devastated" at what she called "the complete decline

Her comments come after two days of trouble at The Mount

The Ministry of Justice said it was dealing with long-term

There are calls to renationalise probation services following a rise

in the number of supervised offenders charged

A total of 517 reviews were triggered in the past year

after an offender on probation was charged with murder,

manslaughter, rape or other serious offences.

Three years ago, the Government changed the way probation

services were run, creating the National Probation Service

to deal with high-risk offenders with the rest being supervised by 21

new community rehabilitation companies.

The general secretary said he had repeatedly raised concerns. Our

members, who are working under appalling conditions, it is a as a

result of privatisation saw this coming a long time ago. We told

ministers of that fact. We submitted evidence to Parliament. We were

among 500 organisations who fore told problems with the private

identitiesation. Now, it is easy to make the link between further

serious offences and our hearts go out to the victims of such appalling

crimes, but you have got to look at the operational models that the

Government allowed to come into play by some of the private contractors

and there have been countless reports that they are not fit for

purposes in many cases. The Duke of Edinburgh will carry

out his final public engagement this afternoon,

before he retires from royal duty. Prince Philip, who's 96 years old,

will attend a parade In May it was announced he would be

retiring after spending more than six decades supporting

the Queen as well as attending events for his own charities

and organisations. A BBC investigation has found

a growing shortfall in the number of beds needed to care

for elderly people. By the end of next year it's

predicted that up to 3,000 people won't be able to find a place

in a care home. The Association of Directors

of Adult Social Services wants more spent on caring for people

in their own homes. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30am. You have been getting in touch on

your prison story. Gareth says, "I have been trouble-free since 2009. I

notice the huge amount of prisoners have been through the care system

and one thing that happens a lot is thousands of small, pointless

sentences clogging up the system and an inmate needs a two year sentence

to really learn a trade in prison. Staff shortages have been rife from

about 1998." Get in touch with us throughout the morning. You can use

the hashtag Victoria Live. Yes, we'll start with

football because Neymar - one of the world's footballing

superstars - looks likely to leave Barcelona and join the French

side Paris St Germain. The Brazilian

is reported to have told his teammates that he wants

to leave the Spanish side. He was then given permission

by manager Ernesto Valverde not to train today and to "sort

out his future". Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp says

he hopes Daniel Sturridge's thigh injury isn't serious

after the striker went off injured Sturridge scored his sides last goal

in a 3-0 win against Bayern Munich in Germany

but he immediately pulled up and was subbed just

before full time. Injuries have limited Sturridge

to 46 league appearances England goalkeeper Karen Bardsley

will miss the rest of Women's Euro 2017 after it's been revealed

she broke her leg. The Manchester City keeper

was injured in the second-half of Sunday's quarter-final win over

France, but she managed Siobhan Chamberlain,

who came on for Bardsley, is now likely to face

the Netherlands in tomorrow The camp was a bit down, but from

KB's point of view, they rallied around and supported her. She did a

fantastic job to help us get to this point at this tournament and over

the last three years. She will still play a big part. Man City have been

great in allowing her to stay until the end of the tournament.

The eight-time Olympic champion Usain Bolt has told the BBC that

if athletes continue to use drugs the sport "will die."

Bolt, who will run the final races of his career

at the World Championships in London which start this weekend,

says after hitting "rock bottom", athletics is now beginning

We're going in the right direction. I think we made changes and I think,

I said earlier that the sport is pretty much hit rock bottom last

season, a couple of seasons ago. Now, it's moving forward. I think

it's going in the right direction. As long as athletes understand if

they keep this up, the sport will die and then they won't have a job.

So hopefully, athletes understand that and they will help the sport to

move forward. Britain's Kyle Edmund

is through to the second He beat Hyeon Chung

of South Korea in straight sets. Heather Watson is out

of the women's singles. She was beaten in straight sets

by Patricia Maria Tig from Romania, who's ranked 134 in the world,

59 places below Watson. Tig took both sets

on tie-breaks as Watson Former England captain Alastair Cook

believes England's experience as a Test side should help them

when it comes to consistency as they prepare for the fourth Test

against South Africa They need to avoid

defeat to win the series As this side develops, we're getting

to the stage where a lot of players have a lot of experience. If you

play 30 Test matches you've kind of, you understand the rigmarole of Test

cricket and your game a lot better than when you played one or two. We

should be getting more consistent and that's the challenge for this

side, that consistency which over the last 12 months there hasn't

been. The fourth Test against South Africa starts on Friday at Old

Trafford, Tina. Prisons in England and Wales

are in crisis after "perverse" Government reform and a "toxic mix"

of pressures, the head of the body Andrea Albutt wrote an open letter

after recent violence at prisons She says the unrest

is causing "grave concern", adding that governors faced

"unacceptable stress and anxiety". We have had year on year

austerities measures. Part of those austerity measures

was losing 7,000 prison officers and the staffing levels in prisons

are critical, so we're unable to Is this a case of numbers? Do we

need more prison officers? That's the priority. Not always prison

officers. We do need more administration staff. But we need to

have people so we can stabilise our prisons before we even start

considering reforming them. If that's the number one concern, the

Ministry of Justice said they are already increasing the numbers? In

the financial year 16/17 there was a net increase of 75 prison officers.

This year, they are ramping things up. The issue we've got is a high

attrition rate. So whilst we may get the numbers in and there are

question around the quality of the people that we're getting into our

service, but we aren't keeping them because the environment is so

violent in many prisons and the reward package is not good enough.

So what can be done to solve that, the violence problem? Well, I think,

at the moment, we just need to control the situation. There is no

quick fix. So on a daily basis, prison governors and their teams

will be deciding what kind of regime to deliver that will keep the prison

safe. Then when we get the staff in, we will then start looking at how we

strategically move our prisons on and start improving. In your open

letter you said that governors faced unacceptable stress and anxiety. Can

you give me examples? Well, I think, the best example is the two

incidents that occurred in the Mount Prison in Hertfordshire over the

last couple of days because that's not, now that is not an unusual

occurrence. Prisoners gain control of wings and staff withdrew. So

those wings have been damaged and we had to re-take those wings. We've

spoken to a governor who was critical of the fact that the Prison

Governors' Association didn't intervene when Chris Grayling made

cuts to the Prison Service when he was Justice Secretary. How do you

respond to that? Prison Governors' Association was fully involved in

all of the consultation of benchmark and we did voice our concerns. As we

do with everything, but that doesn't necessarily mean to say that we can

stop Government policy. Is this too late then? Could you have done more

and should you have spoken out earlier? No, I don't agree with

that. I think we have done as much as we can and we consistently do

this. I think what's interesting at the moment is our Secretary of

State, David Lidington, his silence has been deafening on the issue of

prisons. He has inherited prisons that are in a significantly

challenging situation and he has said nothing. The prisons minister,

he was our prisons minister in the last, he has retained that position.

He has been unable to meet with us until mid-October. So it isn't a

case of the Prison Governors' Association aren't doing anything,

but the Government don't seem to be receptive to talking to us. How bad

do you feel the situation is becoming? Well, the situation, the

violence statistics that came out last week, were the worst ever. I

don't expect them to improve in the next quarter. So, the situation is

bad. And until we get sufficient staff in our prison, the situation

we're in will continue so, we will continue to try and control the

situation in our prisons, but we will not be delivering in a

significant number of our prisons good, quality rehabilitative

regimes, we will be holding and controlling the people in our care

and this is unacceptable. OK, we can now speak to man who used to be the

Governor of Brixton and he is the author of Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind,

Why Britain's Prisons Are Failing. Good morning. What's your response?

I agree with much of what Andrea is saying. The Prison Governors'

Association didn't fight hard enough against the benchmarking process

against which cuts were made. There are no quick fixes. We need more

prison staff and we need fewer prisoners, but we need a better

strategic approach from the PGA and we're not getting it. Can you take

me through a typical day in the life of somebody who is working at one of

these prisons? Can you tell me how bad it is? Well, I'm not the person

to ask as I'm not currently working in English prisons, but it will be

extremely stressful. Prisons work on staff prisoner relationships. You

run prisons on co-operation and you know a good day for a prisoner and a

good day for a prison officer is when there is dialogue, and when

there is mutual interest and when prisoners have got investment in the

regime and when prison staff are able to engage with prisoners about

their difficulties and their resettlement and those

staff-prisoner relationships have broken down and they've broken down

because as Andrea said you can't lose # 500 prison officers with a

lot of experience and then try and replace them with 2500 straight ot

of the training school and the training in this country is the

shortest of any jurisdiction that I've worked in. So you've got prison

officers who demoralised and demotivated and poorly trained,

poorly recompensed as well and they are retreating into a corner.

Regimes get less and less. So prisoners have, I think, we have

seen this in many of the disturbances. They have not nothing

to lose. The Month is a prison for people towards the end of their

sentence who are looking to be resettled in the local area.

And enemies number one but are people up and go back into our

communities. -- these are not public enemies number one. Being released

on temporary licence, where prisoners can go out and work in the

community, spend some money, prepare for release. That is what should be

happening, not prisoners being locked up 23 hours a day. I have

lost track of the rules and regulations as to who's gift release

on temporary licence is, but it should be governors. It is governors

taking risks that I am afraid they need to take. Can you tell me about,

John, this unacceptable stress and anxiety that Andrew talks about in

the letter, that governors are facing? It will be huge. Because of

this breakdown in relationships, prisons become very tense. And

governors going in first thing in the morning will be worried,

firstly, how many staff are going to turn up. There are no figures I have

seen recently about staff sickness. I suspect it is very high. Andrew

has referred to the turnover, so you have experienced people going in, so

the Governor will come in first thing in the morning. How many staff

does he have? What kind of regime can he run? It becomes a bit of a

downward spiral. The furious that he has got, or she has got, -- the

fewer staff that he or she has got. The more reluctant prison officers

are to unlock the prisoners, and we then end up with the situation we

saw the Mount and many other prisons. John, thank you very much

for speaking to us this morning. Still to come - we'll be talking

to British swimming champion Adam Peaty following his success

at the World Championships If you have a burning question for

him, do get in touch. Kanye West's touring company

is suing Lloyd's of London more than ?7 million over

the rapper's cancelled gigs. Very Good Touring said in a legal

document that the insurers have implied they can refuse to pay out

by claiming his mental health issues Sinead can tell us more about this.

You might remember towards the end of this tour, when he cancelled, it

was 21 dates of the same tour, he had been ranting, a bit unusual

onstage, played the songs at the last gig, which I think was in

Sacramento, California. Started talking about Beyonce and Jay-Z, who

previously were their friends, all this kind of stuff, then he left.

The next thing we heard was about police being called to his house,

and he was then taken to hospital and assessed, and we were told he

had severe exhaustion and therefore couldn't go ahead with the rest of

his tour. So have the insurers said why they are not paying out? They

have not actually said anything apart from that they cannot comment

on legal on goings, but Kanye's company has been very vocal about

why they think they are not paying out. They say that they have

indicated, the insurers, they believe that Kanye West's mental

breakdown was due to the fact that he was using marijuana and therefore

they don't have to pay out, but Kanye's company are really angry

about this. They say Kanye was medically tested independently by a

doctor that was put up by the insurer's company so they have all

these facts, so I don't think they will stop fighting this, because it

is a lot of money they will lose. Stage and to social media for

updates on this, I am guessing, from Kanye. Well, maybe. Sinead, thank

you very much. Next this morning -

this is Poppi Wicks - she's one of the smallest babies

in the world who's survived after being born at just 25 weeks -

one week after the abortion limit. She weighed less than a pound

when she was born and her parents were told her survival

chances were slim. Now five months on - she's home

and living with her family - and her parents Hannah Wicks

and Steve McSween have When she was born she weighed

just under a pound? She's doing really well,

she settled in well at home. all her test results that she had

before she left hospital What we can see there is a portable

oxygen tank and the she have to be -- on that all the time

at the moment? We thought that it was a syndrome

that was incompatible So I then had to have

an amniocentesis done. What does that mean,

for people who don't know? It's when they put a needle

through your tummy into the womb and they collect some

of the amniotic fluid And then they test it

using the chromosomes in it. So you were told there was no way

you get the full term? How did you feel when

you received that news? You just don't ever think it's

going to happen to you. Even now, when we look back

on it and we don't know At the time, what options

were you given? We were told we could carry

on and she would maybe pass away, but he said the likelihood was quite

high that we'd lose her and I'd have Or try and get her as far along

as we could, and deliver. But that was risky because we could

have lost her at any minute. So at 18 weeks, as I understand it,

a doctor told you Poppi would be Can you put into words how you felt

when you were told that Completely numb. It was like he was

telling somebody else. It was my second pregnancy, and it was like,

someone just told us it wasn't going to happen, and it was just

heartbreaking, wasn't it? Steve, did you believe she would survive? I

kept saying, she has got this far, so she will not stop now. We believe

there was no option to give up on her because she had not given up on

us. What was it like going into hospital for an emergency Caesarean

at 25 weeks knowing that she might not make it? What was going through

your mind in the operating theatre? I was find myself until they said to

us, we are about to deliver, and then I started crying, because I

just thought, this is it now. She is either going to make it or she is

not. It is out of my hands. It was weird, wasn't it? We had been

waiting for it to happen so long. Everything we went to the doctors,

we got this will be the time they take us there, and he would just

say, come back in a couple of hours, and we will get you prepped and

ready, and we sort of left to get ready and thought, all of a sudden,

oh, no, it is happening now. I will just remind our viewers the survival

rate for babies born at 25 weeks is 59%. If Poppi had been born a week

earlier, it would be 39%. How do you feel about the fact that she was

born only one week after the abortion limit? We are pro-choice.

Both of us, aren't you? We think it is the individual's decision.

Personally, I think it is too late. I think it should be lowered. Can

you describe how small Poppi was when she was born? I know that she

weighed just under our pound, but can you put into words what it was

like to see her that size? She fitted into our hands, so that is

the size she was. I was quite shocked when I saw her, because I

don't know what I thought she was going to look like, but she did just

look like a baby, and I wasn't expecting that. I remember thinking

when I looked at her, she looks like a baby. Just small. Tiny, she could

fit into the palm of your hand. You have brought in some of her baby

clothes. Let's have a look at this one. When did Poppi where this? That

was her first baby grow that she went into, around ten weeks. At ten

weeks she was wearing this. What else do you have? This was her first

nappy, up against the nappy she is wearing no. That must have been cut

to size? Yes, it was still too big for her, to be cut. How long was she

in hospital? 17 weeks. How aware you of long-term complications and risks

Poppi may face in later life? We were told she had a high chance of

getting cerebral palsy, but she had quite a few brain scans when she was

in, and she never had any bleeding of the brain, and she had a routine

MRI scan before she came home which has come back we are, so so far, so

good. And I hope it continues that way. Thank you so much for coming in

and bringing Poppi in. A beautiful little girl. Thank you for sharing

your story with us. Poppi Wicks and her parents, Hannah

and Steve. One million malnourished

and starving children are now at risk of dying from cholera

in Yemen - says the charity The disease is spreading quickly

throughout the country - Malnourished children have

substantially weaker immune systems and are at least three times more

likely to die if they After two years of violence

and conflict, clean water is hard to come by, and Yemen's children

are now trapped in a brutal cycle Here's a look at how the crisis has

engulfed the country - and a warning that the clip we're

about to show you has Let's talk now to Saleh

Saeed, chief executive of Disasters Emergency Committee -

they recently launched Shabia Mantoo is on the ground

for UNHCR and sees people daily from the 'cholera hotspots.' dr

mariam aldogani, is a yemeni doctor that specialises in helping

pregnant women with cholera I will start with you, Shabia. What

are you seeing? It is getting worse every single day. People killed by

the conflict, and now we have the cholera epidemic. I am seeing people

every single day, women, children, people suffering the most, and lots

of them are susceptible to cholera and disease, and they are also

trying to escape for safety. Nowhere is safe. They have all moved

multiple times and are trying to avoid bombs and are living in very

unsanitary conditions where cholera is easily transmitted, so it is very

unsafe and people are also going hungry. We are dealing with the

largest security emergency in the world, so we are seeing people just

do not have enough food to eat. They are lucky to get one meal per day

but really they don't know where their next meal is coming from. It

is an inventory of misery in all aspects. Sana'a is the largest city

in Yemen. If you're walking through some of the more rural areas, it

would be even worse. What we do see people eating if you were walking

through one of those areas, because it is so far removed from people

here it would be good to get a sense of that from your? In rural areas it

is very difficult for people to get assistance. Out there, what we see

in fact there's lots of people living in makeshift shelters that

have to be on the Move, who have to try to avoid conflict, so we see of

makeshift shelters. There is little protection against the elements and

they don't have enough food. The average person I speak to that has

been displaced, they tell me what they eat, and their meal a day is

actually just black tea and a piece of bread, that is what they live on.

People are malnourished and also people with sicknesses who are now

even more vulnerable to more disease, people are just languishing

without health care, without adequate food, without shelter, in

very dire circumstances. This has been going on since the beginning of

the conflict, so it is the third year with people are living like

that. It also means local communities they are relying on,

they are also overstretched, so we are just seeing this widespread,

people just really, in the true essence of the word, struggling to

survive, struggling to stay alive. And what is even worse is that

cholera should be easily preventable. How bad is the

situation as you see it, Doctor? Last week I saw the cholera cases in

one of the treatment centres and I saw a lot of cases lying on the

ground. Especially the pregnant women. I can give you two stories

about one regular nant woman. She was just crying and afraid to lose

their baby. She came from a remote area and she paid a lot to get

assistance and we tried to calm her down so she could get treatment, but

she told me there is some pregnant women, they lose their baby due to

the cholera, I saw another woman. She is is crying. And I told her,

"Why are you crying? You are afraid of dying?" She said I am afraid of

my baby, they are alone. They didn't have food and no one take care of

him. What is on the ground is more worse. It is more worse. We are

struggling to get some medicine, especially for the pregnant women.

The block of the airport and seaboard, this has caused a lot of

stress on the health workers and in addition to the health system

collapse. More than ten months the public health workers didn't get

their salaries. We have severe and huge shortages in medical supplies

and medical equipment. I'm worried that the cholera cases will increase

because the risk management systems are not there and we have now the

rainy season and the water source will be contaminated which will

create a lot of cases and children will return to school and this will

aggravate the situation. One of the stories that one mother didn't know

that she cannot know that she need to breast-feed her child because of

her cholera is six months old and she lifted him and they died. The

baby died because of starving and the mother died because she had the

cholera and she didn't have enough money to refer her to the nearest

treatment centre. This is the situation. I'm really sorry to hear

that. We were talking about Yemen for a while and there was a

photograph a starving girl that came torve's attention. We're not talking

about Yemen anymore, why? The situation in the Yemen is getting

worse. 20 million people in need of humanitarian assistance and that

figure has grown by two million. Journalists are finding it extremely

extremely difficult to get into Yemen and report on the crisis. We

have had our own disasters in the UK. Yemen has been forgotten or been

ignored and it is the world's largest humanitarian crisis. We know

when the public know about the crisis in Yemen, they are generous.

An appeal raised ?24 million and so far with that generous support we've

reached two million people with life-saving equipment, food, water

and including a response to the cholera outbreak. Can you see

foresee this situation which sounds so dire, can you see it improving

any time soon? Sadly not. This is a shame on humanity and a shame on the

world powers and including the warring parties on the ground that

continue to create this conflict, create conflict, create hunger, and

cholera and innocent children are dying on a daily basis. So, you

know, we need to bring the warring parties to book and make sure that

innocent children are saved. Thank you all for speaking to us about it

this morning. Wes tweeted and said, "How long can the world just watch

in silence at what is happening in Yemen?"

I'm Tina Daheley in for Victoria Derbyshire.

Next, he's broken multiple world records - many of them his own -

and taken home a handful of gold medals.

Adam Peaty is a swimming superstar and the fastest

Last week in the World Swimming Championships

he broke his own record in the 50 metre breaststroke

twice and he won gold in both the 100 and 50 metres.

We'll speak to him in just a moment, but first let's take

Absolutely fantastic. Adam Peaty takes gold for Great Britain. Yes!

Oh, he has done it! Wow!

That's all I can say. I don't know whether to cry. I'm ecstatic. I'm so

proud of him. COMMENTATOR: Peaty is starting to

streak ahead. 21.0 is the world record. I never thought I would see

the day when a breaststroke swimmer would go 25 seconds. It is all about

Adam Peaty. Goodness me the margin of victory, that was phenomenal.

Peaty is making the rest of the world reset their dreams because

their dreams are no longer quick enough and the time 25.99, just

outside of his own world record. And the rest of the world is starting to

come with him, you know, they really tried, but no one got within half a

second of Great Britain's Adam Peaty. And Adam is here with us now.

We are delighted to have you on the programme, Adam. Can I first of all

ask you how many times have you watched your races back? A lot

actually! Post Rio I watched that race so many times for motivation,

the day in and day out grind, the ones there from last week, I haven't

watched yet, but I'm sure I will get to it when my nan shoves it down my

throat! What goes through your mind going into the competition, do you

see yourself winning, but breaking your own world record twice? Yeah, I

mean, it's very different for me because every time I go into a meet

I try and start with nothing, I don't realise what I've done until

I've done T I don't look back at Rio and say I need to, you know, do that

again. I just start with nothing. This is how it's going to work. This

is how much I trained for and this is what I've changed this season. I

just go out there and race as fast as I can and try and swim

breaststroke as fast as I can. Correct me if it is more, but I

think it is five world golds, that sounds like global domination to me.

So what's next? So, yeah, I'm just going to celebrate now and put it

all in the past and enjoy it, for what it is and yeah, I mean, I have

got ten years left in this sport, I'm still quite young which is a

very, very good thing to have on my side. I'm hoping someone will come

out out of the woodwork and challenge me, because that's what

sport and sport needs. People need rivalries and I'm looking forward to

that and hopefully that will push me on more. So you are looking for a

challenger, that will make things more exciting? Hopefully someone is

watching that and saying, "Yes, I can take him on." Who are your role

models? We will get on to your mum, your coach and your gran aside.

Muhammad Ali has been my main role model, the way he sold the sport and

the way he reacted and the way he predicted his rounds, I read most of

his books and yeah, sport is completely mental and the athlete is

the mind and the body is simply the means and that's the one quote I

live by. Going back to your family. I know you said a lot of your

success is down to the support you have from your coach, your mum and

your grandma, she is famous in her own right, how much influence have

they had? Massive influence. My mum used to drive me all the way to the

pool at 4am and used to stay at the pool and watch me train and go back

to work for 8am and I used to go to school and she used to collect me

from school and go to the pool for 6pm and didn't get back to 11.30pm

and she was working a full-time job and taking me back and forth from

training. It is a huge, huge gamble because it couldn't have paid off,

but she gave me the best possible outcome really. What does she think

about your success? Does she, does your family treat you dmeumpbly? My

family always ground me. It is great fof my nan around and my family have

always been there from day one and fully supported my dream and my

vision that I had so clearly. How is may have Is. I know she hadn't flown

for 20 years, but flew to see you in Budapest. Did she say it was worth

it? She loved it. She had her bags packed five weeks before. She loved

it. How much does the support that you have drive you? I imagine,

you're so young, you've had to make sacrifices a long the way in terms

of, you know, your training is so intense, I heard that you train for

two hour sessions three times a day, six days a week? Yeah, training is

so, so intense. Six days a week and around 35 hours a week, proper

intense training. So it's a very, very tough sport to be part of, but

no, I just put in pros pktive, I could be doing something I hate and

I get to travel the world and get to meet amazing people from all

different backgrounds and I wouldn't change it for the world. We have a

superfan who wants to speak to you. 11-year-old Aidan got in touch from

Plymouth. Over to you Aidan. Hi Adam. Hi, Aidan, how are you doing?

Good. You? Good, thanks. Do you swim? I swim. What's your favourite

stroke? Fly. Amazing. I won't see you racing me any time soon. Yes.

Awesome, keep training hard and hopefully one day you will get a few

gold medals. Aidan, what's your question for adal? If you could give

a word of inspiration to a swimmer what, would it be? Honestly, enjoy

it. You're very young. Don't take yourself too seriously. Go out

there, in training and hammer train every day and consistency is the key

to success, but at the same time make sure you enjoy it because as

soon as that enjoyment has gone, then your performance will decease

because if you're having fun with it and you're not taking yourself too

seriously, you will go in there and hopefully shock the world with your

performances. Rebecca Adams, we are joined by, from Glasgow who wants to

speak to you and ask you a question. Hi Rebecca. Well done. Thank you

very much. Did you ever imagine that you would be world champion. What

advice would you give to competitive swimmers? A few years ago I was like

I want to make the Olympic team. I didn't think I would come back with

an Olympic gold medal and world record. I started from the bottom

and worked my way up and that was from the day in and day out grind

and surrounding myself with positive people around me and yeah, that's

the way it has always been really and each day I just strive for

perfection and kind of got that. Keep enjoying it and keep working

hard and make sure you're working smart at the same time because you

don't want to be bashing up and down that pool if you're not focussing on

an area where you're trying to improve. Thank you. That's OK. Adam,

how often are you getting recognised? Honestly, I haven't been

home! From Budapest I have been very busy trying to spread the message

that you can come from the bottom of the bottom and work your way all the

way up and honestly, I want to thank everyone for the support in Budapest

and Rio and hopefully I'm going to do you proud. People find it so