07/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Good morning. Monday, I'm Victoria Derbyshire. The top story, a British

model allegedly kidnapped and held in Milan for six days has spoken

about her experience. Police in Italy say 20-year-old Chloe Ayling

was abducted and drugs before attempts were made to sell her in an

online auction. TRANSLATION: He is dangerous because

the victim was dropped. As soon as she was kidnapped, let's say she was

injected with ketamine. Also on the programme -

we can reveal that 32 children between the ages of 3 and 5

were referred to the NHS last year because they're

unhappy with the gender. following Lily and Jessica -

two of the UK's youngest transgender children -

since 2015 and will bring Has anybody being mean to you? Yes,

this person. They said you will not be a very good woman, you should

just be a man. And that really upset me.

That full report in the next 15 mins or so.

And an American NHS doctor tells this programme he's been separated

from his family because of a mix up over his visa which means

adopted sons were prevented from joining him in Birmingham -

even though his birth son was allowed to move to the UK

It was scary for them because they were fingerprinted and put in a

holding cell, a nice holding cell, but they knew they were being

detained. We are completely separated and we cannot make plans.

Half the family is gone and I have no idea when they are going to be

back. Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11. Later on, we'll hear

about the Google employee who says biological differences

between the way men and women are wired is the reason

there are so few women in tech jobs. The guy says women tend to prefer

jobs in social or artistic Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and If you text, you will be charged Plus were the crowd at the london

stadium right to boo Justin Gatlin on Sat night,

and sort of boo when he was handed his gold medal for winning

the 100m last night? she kidnapped for almost a week

in Milan has returned to the UK. Chloe Ayling says she feared

for her life "second by second" and claims she was drugged,

stuffed in a suitcase and threatened with being sold as a sex

slave after being booked Italian police say the model was

attacked and drugged by two people. She had travelled to Milan

for a photo shoot, but it was bogus and the young woman was abducted

and held here, an abandoned shop Italian police say the 20-year-old

British model was attacked TRANSLATION: The victim

was doped with ketamine, then she was locked in a bag

and carried for hours in a car. Think what could have happened

if she suffered from asthma. It's thought that she was bundled

into the boot of this vehicle. They believe she was taken

to a remote mountain cottage near Turin, and say she spent much

of her week-long ordeal handcuffed Her kidnapper is alleged to have

tried to sell her for sex on the internet, and demanded

a ransom of nearly But after six days,

she was released and taken This man, Lukasz Herba,

a 30-year-old Polish national living in Britain,

has been arrested by Italian police. Jessica Parker is here. What else do

we know? She has been speaking this morning, the victim, Chloe Ayling,

about her terrifying ordeal saying she feared for her life second by

second, minute by minute, hour by hour. Police in Italy say she was

handcuffed to a chest of drawers for six days and we know officers are

saying they have arrested a Polish national on kidnapping charges and a

spokesman for West Midlands Police said an address in Oldbury in the

West Midlands has been raided. The National Crime Agency say a special

unit has provided support for the Italian authorities. It is an

ongoing investigation. Italian prosecutors telling us the details

of this case that Chloe Ayling was allegedly attacked by two men before

being dropped with ketamine and locked in a bag before she was taken

to a house in the mountains. Why did they let her go? There is

speculation about this but an ongoing investigation and we expect

more details over the coming hours and days. One theory is they

discovered she had a young child but as Jessica said, more details to

come. Joanna is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary This programme can exclusively

reveal that the number of children aged 10 and under

who are being referred to the NHS because they're unhappy

with their biological gender, has more than doubled over

the last two years - This includes 32 children aged 5

or younger who have been Transgender is a term used

to describe a person who doesn't identify as the gender

that was assigned to them at birth - they may wish to be seen

as a different gender or no gender And we'll bring you exclusive news

with two of the UK's youngest transgender children -

whose stories we have been following over

the last two and a half Thousands of commuters

are having their journeys disrupted today because of major improvement

work at Britain's busiest railway More than half of its platforms

are closed so they can be extended Network Rail has warned

of "challenging days" Security forces in Venezuela

are searching for 10 men who escaped with weapons after they tried

to storm an army base The President Nicolas Maduro

congratulated the army for successfully stopping

the assault - although two Earlier, a video posted on social

media showed uniformed men saying they were rising

against a murderous tyranny. Venezuela has grown used

to rebellion, but this A small group of men

in military uniform openly This is a civic and military action

to restore constitutional order and save the country from total

destruction, to stop the murders As members of the military,

we demand that the will of the people be recognised to free

themselves of tyranny. Any hopes of an uprising

were quickly deflated, though. Venezuelan authorities claim

to have foiled the attack within a couple of hours,

with two men killed The regional military commander

described it as a terrorist paramilitary attack paid

for by right-wing political groups. With a raised fist,

and chants of loyalty to the socialist homeland,

order was restored. But this is now the second

small-scale rebellion In June, a police commando stole

a helicopter and threw grenades This latest uprising,

while short-lived, may offer a glimmer of hope to those leading

daily protests, that some soldiers, as well as civilians,

share the discontent In his address to the nation,

the man himself looked I want to congratulate

the armed forces for the immediate reaction they had against

the terrorist attack. A week ago, we beat them

with votes, and today we beat All this on the weekend Venezuela's

new constituent assembly held its first session,

after last Sunday's It was justified as the only way

to unite this divided country. So far, there is little sign of that

goal being achieved. Brazilian police say a British woman

has been shot and wounded Officials say a couple

and their three children were targeted by an armed group

after taking a wrong turn. The woman's condition isn't thought

to be life threatening. New laws which will give people more

control over what happens to their personal data online

are to be introduced. The government bills the changes as

the right to be forgotten and people will be able to ask for personal

data or things posted as children to be deleted.

A Google employee's opinion, which criticised the tech giant's

Executives at Google have denounced an internal memo in which an

employee criticises the company's policy on diversity. The mail

software engineer argued that the lack of females in top Tech jobs was

due to biological differences between men and women.

Staff have been told to only speak English the health and safety

reasons and that it was the official language of the company. Sports

Direct said there was no ban on Welsh being spoken and was looking

into what had happened. Jeremy Clarkson has said he won't be

back at work for quite some time after being

diagnosed with pneumonia. The former Top Gear presenter

was admitted to hospital in Majorca, where he's on holiday

with his family. He said it was the first

time he'd been off sick since he started working in 1978,

and thanked fans for That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30am. We have some messages and Helen says

as a parent of a transgender child I am pleased to their programmes like

yours that show our kids in a human and nonsense facial ice way and I

find it offensive when others say my trans-son is mentally ill when they

know nothing about him. He is amazing. We are getting messages

like this Anthony, I'm sorry, at that age, in my humble opinion,

children go through phases where they like to play as the opposite

sex. How many boys used to try dressing up with high heel shoes and

do not forget the term tomboy. I imagine it is the easy these days in

which people are quick to put a label on things. And mermaid, a

support group for transgender people and families say it is a shame that

people not affected by this feel they have a right to criticise.

Sarah says, nice to see people saying kids do not know at this age

when they know nothing about the issue. We know, we just know whether

we are a boy or girl. You just do. It is not weird, it is part of

nature, which makes mistakes at times it has such variety. The film

in the next couple of minutes follows Lily and Jessica, not their

real names, children who have transitioned socially in the last

couple of years and we have followed them since January 20 15.

The Usain Bolt and Justin Gatlin row, anybody who missed it, Justin

Gatlin received brewing last night when he was given his gold medal.

This is what he faced. The world champion, representing the United

States of America, Justin Gatlin. Make of it what you will, he pulled

off the shock win to end Usain Bolt's rein in the final individual

race and it has divided people. Those unhappy because Americans

serve -- the Americans serve two vans. Sebastian Coe said he had not

broken any rules and was allowed to compete. Usain Bolt, one of the most

famous stars, finished third and got the bronze medal. Better news for

Jessica Ennis-Hill, the retired athlete did not have to work up a

sweat to get gold medal, after a Russian jug drug -- drug cheat was

deposed. So an upgrade from a silver medal to a gold for Jessica. They

could not be a better time to receive the medal than at the time

but I am thankful it has been here and I have been able to say goodbye

one last time. I felt I had not forgotten an ounce of feeling how it

felt five years ago, stepping out into the stadium, but I had kind of

forgotten about feeling a little bit and standing here and hearing the

crowd again brought it flooding back and that is why it was so emotional.

I love seeing a pregnant woman on top of the podium getting a medal in

the middle of an athletic Stadium. I have to agree, being pregnant

myself? Are you?

I am. Six months. Congratulations. You so don't look it! Oh, my gosh.

Congratulations. A couple of British competitors

disappointed. Katarina Johnson-Thompson, disappointment.

Many talked about her being the successor to Jessica Ennis-Hill. She

finished fifth in the heptathlon and hopes of a medal began with a poor

high jump, one of her best events. She did not pick it up in the

hundred metres but she perform better in three events yesterday and

was second in the 800 metres heat but she left herself too far behind.

More disappointment for Holly Bradshaw, who came sixth in the pole

vaults. She cleared what would have been a bronze medal but missed on

the count back, so not great. Staying positive, on Monday. There

is still a lot for them to work on and sometimes your

biggest setbacks are your biggest strengths and they may come back

learning lots of lessons. The football season is up and running,

which is all wrong in my view! Let's talk about the Community Shield and

penalty rules. We are going to talk about Abba, the new format for

taking penalties. It is like tie-breaks in tennis. Team A takes

the first penalty and then TB takes the next two and it goes on and and

this is in place of the old system where it flip-flopped. Each team

takes a penalty. The old system. It is thought to make the act of

penalties more fair because one team is always catching up with the old

system. If you are still confused, I am a little bit. This is how it

works in practice. The match ended 1-1. We went to a shoot out. The

captain had no problem with his penalty. Arsenal took the next two.

Theo Walcott there. He sent the Chelsea keeper the wrong way.

Chelsea missed back-to-back penalties. Which was bad for them,

obviously. This allowed Olivier Giroud to win the match from the

spot for Arsenal, who kick off the Premier League on Friday and they

will take on Leicester in the Community Shield at the Emirates.

This morning, exclusive interviews with two of the UKs youngest

This morning, exclusive interviews with two of the UK's youngest

transgender children whose stories we've been

following over the last two and a half years.

This programme can reveal that the number of children aged ten

and under who are being referred to the NHS because they're unhappy

with their biological gender has more than doubled over the last two

This includes 32 children aged five or younger who have been

"Transgender" is a term used to describe a person who doesn't

identify as the gender that was assigned to them

They may wish to be seen as a different gender

We first met "Lily" who's now nine and "Jessica" who's now ten

in January 2015 and have followed them ever since.

We're not using their real names, showing their faces

Can you remember when you were being treated as a boy why you wanted

I wanted to just see how it looked and see if anyone laughed or not.

and now all of year four, and so on. clothes and then all of year three

I feel 99% girl and 1% boy, because I imagine when I was a boy

I always had to complain and say, "Oh, I don't want

But now I'm a girl I'm like, "Yeah, I get to put tights on and dresses

And sometimes a scrunchy, you know, the big hair bobbles.

I'm on my slowest gear. Why do they have the extra bit?

I think things, since we last saw you, this year's been a lot

Obviously last year Lilly transitioned socially

to start living as a girl, and that was quite a difficult year.

But really this year it's just been carrying on, and she's

just very happy now, she's very settled.

She's got a great group of friends and just is a very happy girl now.

I suppose our main change we've had through this year

is we've moved house, so we're living in a community now

on a new estate and getting to know different people,

and there's always dilemmas there about how much to tell people

and who to share this with, and should we, or should we just

So as much as part of you wants to educate everyone and tell

everybody and try and help people understand, at the same time we've

got to think about her future, what she would want,

and she doesn't want to always be known as the trans child,

so I guess that's a dilemma that we face.

Yeah, so at school sometimes people say, "What's it like having

And I just say it's got normal and it's just fine over the years,

I've just adapted to it, it's just like I've got

a normal sister and I've had her like that forever.

The worst that's happened is someone's asked me, "Oh,

you have a transgender sister," in a sarky way, but it didn't

What do you think, when you go to secondary school,

which will be soon, do you think it might be an issue,

I'm pretty prepared for anything, really, for people to be

asking me questions, and I'll just reply the same way

I was playing a mouse, and it was the Pied Piper of Hamlin.

So you were aged seven and then, weren't you?

And so the next year, I look very different.

You look much more grown-up, don't you?

Can you think of some words that describe how you feel

Well, I enjoy it a lot when I'm dancing on stage with my friends.

And I just like it how we all just do it together.

Do you feel like them, do you feel different?

So tell me what makes you happiest at the moment?

Being in a lovely home, being in a lovely school.

Everyone's always looking after me and caring.

People not being kind, or when I see people being bullied.

Yeah, there's this person, and they're just being really mean.

They said, "You won't be a very good woman, you should just be a man."

Because you know when you grow up you will be a proper woman?

I'm not going to end up being a boy forever,

because I will be a girl, and I know that.

I get a bit annoyed and angry because I don't like it and I can't

So these are your teeth, right? So they need to stay in place.

Why don't we cut that out and then we scoop another pumpkin out?

She's excited, she loves school, she was so excited

After the holidays, that was good, wasn't it?

She's doing well academically, she's having some ups-and-downs

The hormones are starting to kick in.

Yeah, she could be happy one minute and then just snap into the darkest,

And then occasionally she'll bring up, you know,

"When I grow up, I'm going to live alone because nobody

will want to live with me because I'm trans."

You know, they should be children, they should be allowed to just

I just want everything to just go smoothly and normal for her,

Thank you very much for talking to us again, how are you?

School, mainly. We broke up from school.

It was cool, I don't really see a lot of my friends

Do your friends talk to you ever about you living your life

as a boy in the past, or not any more?

Everybody accepts you and just gets on with it?

I'd rather them not mention it than always talk about it.

Have you thought about whether, when you go to secondary school,

will you tell people that you used to live as a boy, or will

I won't mention it, but if it comes up I probably will say, you know...

I'm not going to say, "Hey, hey, hey, guess what?

I'm just going to like, if someone mentions it,

Quite a while since we last chatted, so tell me what progress Jessica has

Academically, she's exceeding her age group.

She wasn't as happy last time when we saw you,

but she's a lot happier now, isn't she?

I think probably since we've been to the clinic in London,

the gender clinic for kids, she's probably felt

And her worry is that she's turning into a boy,

that puberty will mean she's going to turn into a boy?

I remember last time she was talking about worrying about growing a beard

and things like that, but they've said, look, at

Yeah, she was really, really worried about that,

but that's sort of been alleviated now.

Lily's good, she's had a good year, very happy at school.

Friendships are good, she's got a good group of friends.

And when we first met you two years ago, could you ever have imagined

you saying in the future, "Yeah, she's really happy,

she's doing really well, she's got friends, it's not really

I don't know, I guess you hope for that.

When you're at that early stage, you don't know how

And you still don't know how it's going to play out.

There's still a minute chance, really, that when puberty does start

that she could go back and say, "Actually, I don't feel

Yeah, I do sometimes check in with Lily and say,

"Do you think you'll ever want to be the boy again,"

and she's immediately, "No," she's very sure.

She's always been, I've never seen any signs of not being sure,

so I'd be very surprised if that happens, but you don't know, do you?

Has it been harder for you for your female partner to transition

to a man than for your son to transition to a girl?

For Jessica, I'm her mum, I'm going to love her regardless.

But, you know, I chose Alex when he was female,

And I wouldn't want Alex any other way, if this is what's

But it just took a little bit of adjustment for me to come

Since we first spoke to you and broadcast the film

on our programme two years ago, which was picked up by all

the national newspapers, it was on the front pages of various

tabloids and broadsheets the next day, what do you think has

There's been a lot more coverage, I think of trans, especially

trans children issues, which I think has been

brilliant and has hopefully helped a lot of families.

It helped us watching especially the American stuff that I tapped

into when I was looking for information, so I think

One thing that's changed is that people have a better understanding

now, the education is coming through as well that kids

aren't changing sex, so to speak, at such a young age.

They're not having surgeries, as it's been reported,

So the truth, I guess, is coming out.

It's not as sensationalised as it once was.

Although there are still people, and there will be people

watching you right now, who say, "Your kids are still too

I think if you've lived with a child, as we have, my child,

Lily, from the age of two probably upwards, is so happy now

as a female, and everyone around her who knows her can see how

much more confident and happy she is, she's just how she is now,

When you think about the future for your girls,

Jessica's really quite vocal about wanting to be a teacher,

so she's already said to me that she wants to go to university,

She's grown up so much in the last year.

I have every faith that she's going to have a happy life.

I think I feel fortunate that it's not ten years ago,

and I always remember that and think, even five years ago

I think things were so different, so I'm very grateful that we're

I know we've still got a long way to go, but I think it's

getting a lot better, so fingers crossed

More on this after 10am this morning.

I can media e-mails. Kim says I wish people would stop underestimating

the knowledge and intelligence of children. People who have no

understanding are in no position to pass judgment, and there is a

massive difference between tomboy and transgender. I wish there had

been more openness and support many years ago, but I am glad things are

progressing and thanks to your programme for highlighting this. Jan

said one day humans will realise it is individuality that matters and

not plumbing. The children present as they want to without peer

pressure or parental or social conditioning. There are tomboy 's

boys who like dressing up in high heels, good for them, they are

expressing individuality. Do not put anyone in a pigeonhole until they

choose it. And after ten we will speak to a doctor from the NHS's

only identity clinic for under 18 's, the Tavistock. Pressure is

mounting on North Korea to end this our tests. Will sanctions force them

to take action? Was it right for sprinter,

Justin Gatlin, who's twice been suspended for doping,

to be booed as he collected his gold medal at the athletics World

Championships? We will talk to two former athletics

champions. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. A 20-year-old British model who says

she kidnapped for almost a week Chloe Ayling says she feared

for her life "second by second" and claims she was drugged,

stuffed in a suitcase and threatened with being sold as a sex

slave after being booked Italian police say the model was

attacked and drugged by two people. A Polish man who lives in the UK has

been arrested on kidnapping charges. This programme can exclusively

reveal that the number of children aged 10 and under

who are being referred to the NHS because they're unhappy

with their biological gender, has more than doubled over

the last two years - This includes 32 children aged 5

or younger who have been Transgender is a term used

to describe a person who doesn't identify as the gender

that was assigned to them at birth - they may wish to be seen

as a different gender or no gender New laws which will give people more

control over what happens to personal data online are to be

introduced. The government bills the changes as the right to be forgotten

and people will be able to ask for personal data or material posted

when they were children to be deleted.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

At the world athletics Championships cheers for Jessica Ennis-Hill he was

awarded a gold medal but booing for Justin Gatlin. An upgrade from

silver to a gold medal for Jessica Ennis-Hill from the 2011 World

Championships after the top prize was stripped from a Russian for

doping, but not as friendly for Justin Gatlin as he picked up the

gold medal after beating Usain Bolt in the 100 metre men's final.

Arsenal beat Chelsea 4-1 on penalties to win the Community

Shield. The penalty shoot out was played under the doomed Abba format.

England resume on 200 and 48-2, leading by 360 runs. South Korea's

IK Kim is the women's new British Open champion as she held off a

spirited challenge to win the title by two shots.

More on the 20-year-old British model who says

Chloe Ayling says she feared for her life "second by second"

and says she was drugged, stuffed in a suitcase and threatened

with being sold as a sex slave after being booked

That is the room where she says she was kept.

The Milan prosecutor Paolo Storari has been talking

TRANSLATION: He is dangerous - dangerous why?

Because the victim was drugged with ketamine.

As soon as she was kidnapped, let's say she was injected with ketamine.

You know that if these substances are injected by people

who are not experts, it may cause problems.

Second, she was closed inside a bag and driven for hours in it in a car.

You just think what would happen if a person suffering

It's thought that the man who held Chloe Ayling belonged

Angela Giuffrida is a freelance journalist who has been

reporting on the case, and Matthew Hickley is co-founder

of the cyber security company Hacker House.

Angela, what details do you know of this case? Nothing new has emerged

since the police gave a press conference on Saturday and also what

emerged in the Italian press yesterday which was a statement

Chloe Ayling gave to police about the horrific ordeal. We know that

there were maybe three, four accomplices, who the police are

trying to track down. In terms of where she was held, we have shown an

image of the room where she says she was held. Whereabouts was it in

Italy? That was in a remote village on the outskirts of Turin. What does

she say happened when she was held their? She said her hands and ankles

were tied to a chest of drawers and during the six-day she was there she

had to sleep on the floor. Also that she believed there were three, four

accomplices involved. Their motive was what? It is not clear. One of

the biggest mysteries of the story so far is why the suspect

accompanied her to the British Consulate in Milan. She was

apparently released because she was a mother of a two-year-old, which

was supposedly against their rules. We can talk about this group. The

Black Death group. Do they exist? Group has origins with various

internet conspiracy forums and it is not clear they did exist. Previously

they have had websites from 2015 where they have said they could

offer kidnap victims for auction and these websites were found out to be

fake and the images used were not of any victim and had been taken from

videos. There had been a number of YouTube videos supposedly tied to

the groups. At this stage it is unclear if they are a real group.

This is the first instance where somebody has come forward and said

they were kidnapped and placed on auction. We know the images were

posted onto a dark net website but this is the first case of its kind,

as far as I am aware. And the first case involving this group if it

exists where the rest made. That is correct. Whether this individual is

linked to an organised crime group, if he perhaps may be a disturbed

individual, we do not know. These allegations have come about and are

supported by a long-standing internet conspiracy theory about the

existence of a group that previously has advertise things like murder for

hire, assassinations and even bombings. It is quite disturbing and

we will certainly look to what evidence comes to light as the

police investigate. Thank you. Still to come. Work the crowd right booing

Justin Gatlin, who has twice been banned for doping? Letters know your

views. Let's turn our attention

to North Korea where international pressure is mounting

on the secretive country Let's turn our attention

to North Korea where international pressure is mounting

on the secretive country The last few days has seen

a unanimous vote at the UN Security Council for additional

sanctions on North Korea, and a Chinese demand to end

nuclear and missile tests. Whether it will bring the tests

to an end is another matter. An offer was just made

at an international summit in the Philippines

by the South Korean foreign minister in a rare face to face encounter

with his North Korean counterpart, In a moment we'll talk to experts

about the country's nuclear threat and the dire human rights abuses

North Koreans are subjected to, but first take a look

at how it got this far. Let's discuss this now

with Dr Patricia Lewis, an expert in international security

and nuclear capability. And Kate Allen the Director of human

rights charity Amnesty. How alarmed Dr Lewis should North

Korea's neighbours be when it comes to their nuclear capability? They

are very alarmed, of course. They have been living with this for a

long time however. So there is a certain getting used to in. The past

North Korea used the nuclear capability that's been developing as

a way of blackmailing, to get money for so-called humanitarian aid, but

sometimes that's been diverted. So, a lot of this is the same and yet

the technical capability has now changed. The missiles that they have

been developing having a longer reach, possibly being able to reach

the United States itself, but south coronary qa and Japan have been

targetable for a highly. They don't have nuclear warheads to go on top.

On top of the missiles. Explain the significance of that for our

audience? A ballistic missile is a ball that goes up into the air and

comes back down again. If you change the angle, you can get it to go

longer distance, but its accuracy is poor. If you put a conventional

warhead on top and it misses, it won't have a huge amount of impact.

If you put a nuclear warhead on top and it misses it has a massive

impact. Developing a small enough warhead to go on top, that's light

enough to travel a long way, that's the trick and we don't think they're

quite there yet, so it's whether or not we have got this window still to

negotiate. OK. Kate, so much of the focus is on North Korea's nuclear

capabilities. Does that overshadow the grotesque Human Rights abuses

that go on in that country? Well, the Human Rights abuses are, as you

say, grotesque. The UN had a commission which reported two or

three years ago and the author of that commission report said at the

end of the Second World War people said if only we'd known, we would

have done something and he said we do know what is happening in North

Korea and it is hundreds of thousands of people in absolutely

shocking prison conditions, in camps, where you know they are not

charged. You can be taken into a camp for showing, not enough support

for the regime. Your entire family can be put in that camp with you and

you will be there until you die. It is appalling. There are mass

executions, torture, rape, it is an astonishing regime and yes, we do

not talk enough about those Human Rights abuses. The situation with

potential nuclear weapons is massively worrying and behind that

sits a population that are traumatised and abused in the most

shocking of ways. And it would seem there is little you, we, the West,

South Korea, China, can do about it? Well, I'm very encouraged by the

fact that the international community has come together about

this issue in North Korea. I'd like to see them come together about the

Human Rights issues in North Korea. That UN commission, which, you know,

we as Amnesty gave our evidence to, said that North Korea should be

referred to the International Criminal Court. Now, this is the way

that the world holds people who are responsible for such abuses to

account. And it is the first step that is necessary. You know... Even

if that happened, it would be symbolic. They wouldn't turn up.

They wouldn't care. It would be a first step. It would be a step to

saying to that regime, the people responsible for this will be held to

account. Individually, personally, you will be held to account. That

day will come. We will be gathering the evidence. We will be talking to

the survivors of those camps. We will find your names and we will one

day make sure that there is justice. And that is a start to people

knowing that they simply cannot get away with the impunity that they are

at the moment. Dr Lewis the new sanctions are going

to cost North Korea around an extra $1 billion. How much of an impact

will that have and what sort of an impact on first of all the regime

and secondly, the people of North Korea? First of all, they would have

to be implemented. Sanctions are notoriously leaky. The idea is to

aim at hurting the elite and the problem with sanctions is sometimes

they hurt even further the people, but I think, as Kate rightly says,

we are in a situation where the people rt hurting so badly unless

they are in the elite that it is certainly worth doing. The important

thing, I think, is that we've got China and Russia in the Security

Council with a United States resolution and this required an

enormous effort on the pat of the United States and they are to be

congratulated and it shows how worried both China and Russia are.

How they are working together with the United States and this sends a

very big message to North Korea that perhaps matters more on the amount

of money we're talking about. The symbolicisation lation by the two

countries that has supported them in the Security Council before. Thank

you very much. Coming up - jobs for the boys -

could the lack of women in top tech jobs be due to biological

differences between men That's one software

engineer's opinion. Here is an e-mail from Sue about our

film about Lily and Jessica, two transgender children who we have

been following since 2015. "My son was born in 1983 when the word

transgender was in our world unknown. Christopher grew up and

when he was 18 said to me I wish I had been born your daughter and not

your son. However, it wasn't until he was 30 that he came out as a

woman. I'm so proud of her. Christine is now 34 and is engaged

to be married. Sometime ago she was asked when did you first know? She

replied I've always known, but as a child I didn't have the words. I'm

glad the world has change I'm proud of my beautiful daughter." Thank you

for that. The American sprinter Justin Gatlin

has been booed for a second time as he collected his gold medal

at the athletics World Championships Gatlin, who's twice been

suspended for doping, beat Usain Bolt into third place

in the men's 100 metres final on Saturday, prompting

boos from the crowd. Around the world, people

are tuning in for this final, and the sound they will hear

will be you. Five global medals, a best

of 9.74, for Justin Gatlin! He wasn't going to do

the walk and have So many times the silver medal,

so many times he has followed Bolt So does Jimmy Vicaut,

and so does Chris Coleman. Coleman's leading it,

and Bolt's got to chase it hard - he's not going to catch him

at the moment, but here he comes, and Coleman's still in the lead,

and Gatlin wins it! Right at the death, Gatlin comes

through - Gatlin steals it! Coleman thought he had it,

Bolt never got there. Coleman second, and

Usain Bolt in third. Gold medallist and world champion,

representing the United States We can speak to British sprinter

and former 4x400 metre relay world He won gold in 1991

against the US team with Kris Akabusi running down

the World Champion Antonio Pettigrew Iwan Thomas also a former 4 by 400

metre world champion. They initally won silver

against the US in 1997 but were upgraded to gold in 2009

after that same Antonio Pettigrew And Iwan is also hosting

the games within the stadium. Derek the booing last night was not

as emphatic as Saturday night. What do you think of the crowd expressing

their opinion in the way they did? Personally I think I would have been

silent and if I could have advised the crowd to do anything, it would

have to do nothing, but try controlling that many thousand

people who are going to have their own views, their own opinions and

some decided to boo and some decided not to. I don't think it was great

to hear booing for anybody, but I'm not particularly a fan of what

Justin Gatlin has done or particularly a follower of his, but

I think if it was me, I would advice everyone to be silent because you

know, he was there. He served his ban and unfortunately, he is allowed

to compete and that's what he did. Should the crowd have been booing

the authorities? They make the rules? Justin Gatlin ways racing

legitimately? He was. Every night the IAAF are addressing the issue.

They are trying to clean the sport up and unfortunately in doing so it

is highlighting the fact that sport people will cheat. So I think it is

a long process whereby the laws and the rules do need to be changed, but

to give someone a lifetime ban, they've tried it brvings it is not

the governing body that's restricting that, it is the court of

law. The court of arbitration in sport. Yes. That's what the IAAF

say, they say we have campaigned for lifetime ban, but because of the

threat of legal action that athletes can bring, we can't introduce

lifetime bans? No. It's unfortunate, I think, we need to send the right

message out to the next generation and that's what we're trying to do.

The atmosphere inside the stadium is fantastic. This is the only negative

part of it and unfortunately Justin Gatlin is allowed to be there. He

has done nothing wrong at the current situation as the law lies,

but I personally think perhaps two strikes and you should be out. They

need to look at that. It is difficult. Let's talk about. Derek,

two strikes and you're out. I have been going back to the reasons why

Justin Gatlin was banned. He was diagnosed with ADHT as a

nine-year-old and he been taking prescribed medication ever since.

Medication which contains an amphetamine which back in 2001 was

permissible for out of competition use, but banned during in

competition use and the panel that looked at his case said he was not a

cheat. There was a genuine medical explanation for his positive test.

Yes, he had to be banned, but that's why they reduced the ban from two

years to one years because they said Justin Gatlin neither cheated nor

did he intend to. OK. Yeah. If that's the case, and I understand

and respect that, my issue with Justin Gatlin is the second time

round. He has been through this process once. Allegedly clean and by

if you like some kind of miss demeanour, some kind of confusion

with what he was allowed it take out of season and what he is not

supposed to be taking in season, but the second time round, he has been

through this process and he knows the score and decided have a go

again. Hang on, just a second, for our audience, what he said on the

second occasion in 2006 was that a disgruntled massage therapist had

basically rubbed cream with testosterone into his legs

deliberately. I can see your wry smile and the panel said the

evidence did not elimb nat the possibility of intentional use or

that he was an unwitting victim. It just wasn't clear? Well, OK, so,

even the second time, I've never known a drug cheat when they get

caught to say, "Fair cop, it's me." Some profess their innocence after

serving a ban and even when they come back. You expect an athlete who

has gone down that route to turn around and say, "Oh, it wasn't me."

Going back to my point to go through this process a second time, whether

it was rubbed in by a disgruntled mass sewer or not, he has been going

through this process a second time and I think something does need to

be done and you know I'm all for a life ban and I understand what the

court of arbitration, lets not use the word life, let's give a 15 year

ban, a 10 year ban, something that does end an athlete's career. I

still think a lot of athletes will still try the once and it is like

the false start rule. We used to have two false starts and now it has

gone down to one and now no one can have a false start. Let me ask about

the national federations who select former drug cheats. Could they take

more responsibility? Some federations are stricter than

others. Some will say in British athletics if you have been a drugs

cheat, you can't go to the Olympic Games. Where the grey area, let's

assume Justin Gatlin is telling the truth there. It's not so black and

white. What hasn't helped in this case with the crowds booing, the

fact that I Am Bolt documentary has been on the BBC. It is not clearly

two drugs tests, whae has done is terrible for the sport, but if the

ADHT medication is correct, then people just see and read that he has

been a tw-time drug cheat. Maybe, it's not as black and white as we

first think, but as an ex-athlete, whatever you put in your body you

have to be responsible. If someone was massaging me and using new oil I

would say, "What's this you're using?" I check everything I put on

my body or is used one body because you have to be responsible for your

own future. Thank you very much. Your views, welcome, of course, what

did you think of what the crowd did? Are they, people boo at other

sporting events, don't they? You have probably been to a football

match or two where there has been booing? Is it any different in an

athletics match? Before that the weather. Here is Carol.

This week the weather is looking unsettled. Today is no exception.

Rain in the south-west and the far south-east staying dry and the other

side, brighter skies, sunshine and showers but some showers could be

heavy and sundry in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Tonight that moves

backwards and you concede the rain tonight. A lot of dry weather

around. Showers in the north and west. Temperatures falling between

nine and 15. Tomorrow's starting with rain. If anything it will

retreat back to the south-east. Joining forces with rain from the

continent. East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Hampshire in particular will see

downpours. For much of England and Wales cloudy and wet. The far north,

another day of sunshine and showers with temperatures between 15 and 19.

Hello, it's Monday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

The British model allegedly kidnapped and held in Milan for six

days feared for her life minute by minute. Police in Italy said

20-year-old Chloe Ayling was abducted and drugged before attempts

were made to sell her in an online auction.

TRANSLATION: He is dangerous because the victim was

As soon as she was kidnapped, let's say she was

Also on the programme we can reveal that 32 children

between the ages of 3 and 5 were referred to the NHS last

year because they're unhappy with the gender.

following Lily and Jessica - two of the UK's youngest

transgender children - since 2015 and will bring

How would you like people to treat you? Like a normal girl. I would

rather they did not mention it rather than always talk about it.

More from them and we will talk live to the boss of the UK's only UK

gender clinic for under 18. A Google software engineer believes

that men make better programmers than winning. More men like coding

because it requires systemising. If you are a woman in a tech job tell

us your reaction. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of todays news. A British model who was kidnapped

almost a week in Milan has returned to the UK. Chloe Ayling said she

feared for her life and claim she was trucked, stuffed as a suitcase

and threatened with being sold as a sex slave after being booked for a

photo shoot. Italian police say she was attacked and drugged by two

people. The woman was held in abandoned shop on the outskirts of

the city. Italian police say the model was attacked and robbed by two

people. TRANSLATION: The victim was doped

with ketamine and locked in a bag and carried four hours in a car.

Think what would've happened if she suffered asthma. It was thought she

was put into the boot of this vehicle and they believe she was

taken to a remit cottage and say she spent much of her week-long ordeal

handcuffed to a chest of drawers. Her kidnapper is alleged have tried

to sell her for sex on the internet and demanded a ransom of nearly a

quarter of ?1 million. After six days she was released and taken to

the British Consulate. This man, a 30-year-old Polish national living

in Britain has been arrested by Italian police.

New laws which will give people more control over what happens

to their personal data online are to be introduced.

The government is billing the changes as the right

People will be able to ask for personal data or material

they posted when they were children to be deleted.

Brazilian police say a British woman has been shot and wounded

Officials say a couple and their three children

were targeted by an armed group after taking a wrong turn.

The woman's condition isn't thought to be life threatening.

The Foreign Office says it is in touch with Brazilian authorities.

Thousands of commuters are having their journeys disrupted today,

because of major improvement work at Britain's busiest railway

More than half of its platforms are closed so they can be extended

They will be closed until 28th of August.

Network Rail has warned of "challenging days"

An average of 270,000 journeys are made to and from the station every

day. Executives at Google have

denounced an internal memo in which an employee criticises

the company's policy on diversity. In the piece, a male software

engineer argued that the lack of females in top tech jobs was due

to biological differences The article was posted

on an internal discussion board. While the author has

been widely criticised, he also says he has received

messages of gratitude Mollie King is the first celebrity

to be confirmed taking part in the new series of Strictly Come Dancing.

The singer from the Saturdays said she was excited to be a contestant.

The series starts on BBC One next month.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30am.

Justin Gatlin, Stewart said the public made a decision to boo and

you should respect that. Another said for me once, shame on you, fool

me twice, shame on me. Michael said it is the fact Justin Gatlin has

never said sorry and if he did it would help a lot. He has talked

about going into academic institutions and talking to people

about his story. What happened to him. His experience. But clearly

that is not enough for more some people.

Day four of the World Athletics Championships.

Jessica is at the London Stadium for us.

We're reflecting on two very different

Good morning, a day of mixed reactions yesterday and on the one

hand you had big cheers and warm applause for Jessica Ennis-Hill,

receiving her retrospective world gold medal from 2011. Six years

after the fact because the athletes that had beaten her at the time was

found to have cheated and doped and therefore disqualified. It was an

emotional day for her. Whilst as we have seen her on the podium. She is

eight months into her pregnancy now. And then in contrast, Justin Gatlin.

Questions around the stadium yesterday a about what reaction he

would receive after winning a dramatic 100 metres final and coming

back after those two drugs bans. It was an interesting reaction and mix

to because there was booing but also there was cheering. He was also

applauded by his opponents. Coleman and Usain Bolt, but Justin Gatlin

has been receiving booing all through the championships and feels

he has done his time and should be welcomed back into the sport.

Jessica Ennis-Hill coach Tony Minichiello understands why fans

vent their frustrations. The crowd is entitled to express its opinion

of the entertainment presented to it. I have no problem with the way

the crowd conducted themselves. They were respectful at the times they

needed and expressed their opinion appropriately and it was not all of

the crowd. It was more of an ooh van a boo. This is why we watch sport

and so fixed on it. There's talk about the British team. A

disappointing day yesterday. We have seen such drama but yesterday was a

chance for British athletes to stand up and impress. It was quite

disappointing. There were high hopes put on Katarina Johnson-Thompson in

the heptathlon. She had a tough first day and came back was second

and performed well in her final three events. She left herself too

much to do by the time she got to be 800 metres and it was the Olympic

champion, Nafi Thiam, the Belgian, who won the gold medal. She will be

disappointed. Holly Bradshaw had a good season but fell short in the

pole vaults. She did not manage to get over the bar set it four metres

75, knocking it down on the way down and heartbreaking scenes of her

crying when she had gone out. We hope for a better day today. In the

evening session we have Sophie Hitchon going on in the hammer. In

the 1500 metres final we have Laura Muir and Laura Weightman. There is

no morning session today. It is very quiet. Eerily quiet in the London

stadium, but action gets under way at 6pm on BBC Two. Cheers. Welcome

to the programme. This programme has

discovered that 32 children between the ages of three

and five have been referred to the NHS over the last year

because they're unhappy In total this year 216 children

under the age of 10 have been to the NHS's only gender identity

service for under 18s - that figure has more than doubled

over the last two years. "Transgender" means someone

who doesn't identify as the gender they were assigned

to when they were born. They may wish to be seen

as a different gender Over the last two and a half years

we've been following two of the UK's youngest transgender children,

Lily and Jessica, I always had to complain and say,

"Oh, I don't want to put trousers on," but now I'm a girl I'm like,

"Yeah, I get to put tights on, So tell me what makes

you happiest at the moment. Everyone's always looking

after me, and caring. People, like, not being kind,

when I see people being bullied. Yeah, there's this person

and they're just being really mean. They said, "You won't be

a very good woman - Do your friends talk to you ever

about you living your life Everybody accepts you and

just gets on with it? I'd rather them not mention it,

than, you know, them Have you thought about when you go

to secondary school, will you tell people that you used

to live as a boy, or will I won't mention it, but if it comes

up I probably will say, you know... Since we first spoke

to you and broadcast the film on our programme two years ago,

what do you think has There's a lot more coverage I think

of trans, especially trans children issues,

which I think has been brilliant, and has hopefully

helped a lot of families. People have a better

understanding now. The education is coming

through as well that, you know, kids aren't having surgeries,

as it's been reported, It's not as sensationalised

as it once was. Although there are still people,

and there will be people watching you right now,

who say, "Your kids I think if you've lived

with a child, as we have, my child Lily, she is just how

she is now. Jessica's a clever little

girl, young lady, even. Yeah, she's grown up

so much in the last year. I have every faith that she's

going to have a happy life. She's a Consultant Clinical

Psychologist and the Director of the Gender Identity Development

Centre which is the only NHS Welcome. How typical are the

experiences of Jessica and Lily when it comes to transgender children in

Britain? I think all the young people we see

are individuals, but they are fairly typical. I think with this younger

age group not all of them have socially transitioned, but for young

people who have socially transitioned I think these two young

people are very representative. Talk us through what happens when a child

or young person is referred to your service. OK. So, it depends on age

really, but if we're thinking about younger people, they would come

along, usually with their families and we would carry out an assessment

so that would be a number of meetings over a number of months and

it's a really broad ranging assessment. So we're thinking about

the young person's general development across education, but

also relationships, peer relationships and so on as well as

thinking about their gender. I think with some families the first task is

to really find a way of communicating because what you find

maybe is that one parent will be very supportive of the young person

whereas the other might be quite worried. So I think finding a way of

talking. Just thinking about gender over time would be the way we'd

approach it. And what kind of things do the children express to you about

their identity? Well, I think part of gender dysphoria as it's called

is distress associated with feeling that your gender identity doesn't

match your physical body, I've completely forgotten your question

there... It's fine. I was asking what children say to you about their

gender, if they have gender dysphoria? Yes. Well, I mean part of

that is a belief about identity. So, you know, young people will

typically say that they feel their sense of themselves doesn't match

their body. . Right. In many cases, are they frustrated? Are they

bewildered? Anry? What kind of emotions would you say they're

expressing? They present as certain, but that's not to say that there

aren't a lot of difficulties around and even though there is great are

awareness which is fantastic, many of the young people we see have been

bullied and teased at school and so, I think, for some there is a feeling

of shame. So we would be facilitating really open

conversation around the gender and trying to be supportive. I think as

a service we totally accept the gender that your people come along

with because after all it is their identity. Let me ask you about the

figures which show that 32 children aged between three and five have

been referred to the NHS in the last year because they're unhappy with

their gender. How can that be when we are talking about a child as

young as three potentially? Well, I think if you talk to the parents of

these young people they will since their child was crawling and able to

communicate they were always showing preferences for toys typically

associated with the other gender, but it's also about personal

statements. So, you know, for example very young kids can say

things like, "Mummy, I'm a boy on the outside, but a girl on the

inside. ." So I think it's not simply about liking toys of the

other gender as is sometimes said, it is a much more profound sense of

being. Can you get a prod found sense of a being from a

three-year-old? I think three-year-olds communicate very

well and you can absolutely. How would you know whether to take that

three-year-old seriously when there are kids who go through phases?

That's a really good question because I know people have great

concerns about this. One should be supportive of young people in terms

of what they are saying about themselves. That says nothing about

how things will unfold in the future and the thing to bear in mind is

that this is a process and nothing is set in stone. That's interesting.

How often might you see a child, at a young age, a three or four or

five-year-old who as they grow and mature actually changes their mind?

Well, in fact, for the younger ones, those referred to the service at

five years old, it would only be about 6% of those who ultimately go

on to seek physical interventions to change their body. OK. So what of

the other 94%? The other 94% have different outcome. Some might carry

on feeling that their gender doesn't quite fit the stereotypes. Others it

will be an outcome around sexuality. For others, they will settle into

the gender of which they were assigned at birth. It is a tiny

proportion? A tiny proportion of the very young ones. What's your

explanation for the increase in the numbers of children and young people

seeking support for identifying as transgender? I think there is a lot

that's immensely positive about that and I think media had a very large

part to play. So there is much greater awareness and I think on one

of your earlier tweets, there was an older person saying that they hadn't

had the language to describe their feelings and often young people who

attend our service will talk about having seen a character on TV or met

someone at school and by meeting other people, hearing about other

people's experiences of gender, they're able to put words to their

own feelings. Right. So the raising of awareness, the media attention

has led to more young people being referred to your clinic for example?

A couple of years ago we had an astronomical increase in the number

of referrals. It doubled in a year. It is hard to know why things come

together at a certain time. But I think it is very much to do with

raised awareness on the media, but also social media. There are still a

lot of misconceptions about transgender children. Let's talk

about blockers, puberty blockers that pause piberty to allow a young

person more time to really make sure they do want to continue down a

particular route. How often would you turn down children for that kind

of help because you don't think they need it? I think most often it's a

collaborative agreement between families and young people. So it

would be a rare occasion where we would perhaps think that it's not

the right thing to be going ahead with hormone blockers. In some cases

it may not be the right thing but later on it will be the right thing.

I guess we do our best to support young people to, you know, make the

decision that's right for them and support them get there if that's

what feels right. Do you know, do we know about any long-term

side-effects of hormone blockers on a child or young person if they

decide to stop taking them? What research has been done in that area?

Hormone blockers have been offered in Holland in a very long

established specialist clinic and in actual fact they are the only clinic

to have published any long-term outcome data. So, it would be

absolutely right to say that there isn't any good long-term outcome

data at this time. Although the data we have is supportive of it being a

reversible intervention that doesn't have long-term ill effects. OK. You

will have heard some of the comments that I have aide read out from our

audience. As a qualify doctor, what do you say to people who are

watching now who don't believe children can really make decisions

about their gender identity? I think children aren't making decisions

about their gender identity when they say that they feel that their

body doesn't match their sense of themselves. That's a statement about

themselves. In terms of making decisions, I guess, you know, the

big decisions are for those young people who may feel that the right

course for them is to undertake physical interventions and I think

as a service, we're mindful of the need for young people to consent and

we put a lot of time into working with young people and their families

over time. It's a process, not an event. So I'd say to people who are

sceptical that we take a cautious and considered approach and I think,

you know, it is essential that that's the case. Let me read this

e-mail from somebody who wishes to remain anonymous. "My seven-year-old

son had always showed femen nine attributes. We put coins in the

wishing well. We wished to be a girl. All his friends are girls and

he often talks about girl things. He is being bullied at school, but he

didn't back down. I don't care if he wants to be male or female, but it

breaks my heart to see how other people are with him. I love him

however he wants to be. I just need advice, I guess. He seems very sad

at the moment." What would you advice that parent? I would advice

them to go to their GP and seek a referral, either to their local

child and adolescence service or they could seek a referral to

ourselves, it would be about offering a space to think about

those things and explore the feelings of the young person. Those

people who are against trance kids have no idea what they are talking

about. The medical support is great. I wish I could have done the same at

that age. You mentioned physical interventions and we talked about

the blockers that pause puberty. In this country, my understanding is on

the NHS, you have to be around the age of 16 before you could be

offered cross sex hormones. Just explain what they are first of all?

Cross sex hormones. So, most of us, alof us, produce sex hormones that

put our bodies through a male puberty or a female puberty. Cross

sex hormones would be when an individual takes hormones that

aren't in line with the physical body they have. Right. Now, both

Lily and Jessica's parents said to me they wondered if 16 might be too

old for their child and it might cause distress to their child if

they had to wait until that age before they could get access to

those cross sex hormones. What do you say to them? I had understand

that and that is something that increasingly we're hearing and I

know that in some parts of the USA they are offering cross sex hormones

at an earlier age. I would say that cross sex hormones are the first

stage of a physical treatment that's not fully reversible. It has

implications for an individual's fertility and one is always

balancing up if you like the gains and the losses and so, I think, you

know, if one can have a supportive environment that accepts young

trance people -- trans people and they don't feel out of place if

their development is less than their peers. The extra time we have for

young people to consider the implications of taking cross sex

hormones is really quite important in terms of development. OK. Thank

you. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Dr Polly

Carmichael from the, she is the director of the Gender Identity

Development Service. The NHS' only service for under-18s in the UK.

Your comments, welcome, of course. The lack of women in top tech jobs

is due to biological differences between men and women

and not sexism. That's the verdict of one Google

software engineer whose internal memo has been leaked

and widely criticised. The unnamed author says women

generally "prefer jobs in social or artistic areas" while "more men

may like coding" and that "the abilities of men and women

differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences

may explain why we don't see equal representation of women

in tech and leadership". Let's hear a bit more

of what the author had The quotes are read

by one of our team. As society becomes more prosperous

and more egalitarian innate dispositional differences

between men and women have more space to develop,

and the gap that exists between men and women in their

personality becomes wider. We need to stop assuming that

gender gaps imply sexism. We always ask why we don't see women

in top leadership positions, but we never ask why we see so many

men in these jobs. These positions are often require

long stressful hours that may not be worth it if you want to balance

a fulfilling life. Women relatively prefer jobs

in social or artistic areas. More men may like coding because it

requires systemising. Google say the memo -

posted on an internal discussion board -

is "not a viewpoint the company And that, "Diversity and inclusion

are a fundamental part of our values and the culture

we continue to cultivate." But is there any truth in claims

that biological differences impact the type of jobs men and women

are good at? Zoe Jervier is from Entrepreneur

First, a body that helps What do you think about this men and

women's brains wired differently? It is the opinion of one Google

employee who's put forward a controversial viewpoint that

biological make women less heated to careers in engineering and it has

sparked outrage understandably internally at Google and externally.

Many have pointed out there are factual mistakes in what he has

said. There is confusion around the root cause as to what causes women

to not want to enter engineering as a career path. In June, Google

released figures that showed one in five tech roles was filled by a

woman last year. The US national average is 26%. What barriers are

there to women entering these jobs? It is not that women are

biologically predisposed against tech jobs. There are a number of

factors along the way in trying to enter that as a career that are

discouraging. Google are dealing with the tail end of the diversity

in tech problem but the root causes earlier. At university, A-levels,

pre-classroom, even. There are great companies trying to address the root

cause problem. Entrepreneur First set up a free programme available to

all female university students. There is more we need to do. If you

go to university, that is almost too late to make those decisions. It

needs to be earlier. Root causes, do you say it is the way parents bring

up kids and teachers encourage boys and girls to do different subjects?

Yes it starts much earlier. Down to the toys bought and marketed towards

children. The gendered characters and roles we see in cartoons that

children watch. There is a lot we need to do earlier. It does not mean

we should not do anything later in the pipeline and generally Google

are seen as leaders in diversity inclusion practices. It was good of

them to respond quickly that this is not something they believe in at a

company culture level. Robin says this, Robin is a woman, as one of

only two women programmers on my university course out of hundreds, I

feel it is vital not to make women feel they cannot code as well as

male counterparts because of one Google employee's opinion. There is

a shortage of women in this industry because we have been told from the

young gauge tech jobs are not for us, even though there are no

physical advantages in the job, just willingness to learn and sometimes

talent. That picks up on a striking contradiction in the Google

employee's memo. Even if it were true women had high levels of

empathy and therefore were suited to certain roles, people skills and

having an understanding of people and behaviours is essential to being

a successful engineer. You would expect women would be great

candidates for these roles because of that difference, rather than

despite. Thank you. It was a social experiment

for Channel 4, but when 23 people were sent to live on a remote part

of the Highlands to build a self-sufficient community

things quickly went wrong. We'll speak to a contestant from

the show Eden about what happened. It is back on Channel 4 tonight.

Most parents do everything they can to help children follow their dreams

and we meet the sum taking on the role of supporting his mum through

her dream of gaining further qualifications.

With the news, here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom.

A 20-year-old British model who says she kidnapped for almost a week

Chloe Ayling says she feared for her life "second by second"

and claims she was drugged, stuffed in a suitcase and threatened

with being sold as a sex slave after being booked

Italian police say the model was attacked and drugged by two people.

A Polish man who lives in the UK has been arrested on kidnapping charges.

New laws which will give people more control over what happens

to their personal data online are to be introduced.

The government is billing the changes as the right

People will be able to ask for personal data or material

they posted when they were children to be deleted.

Police in Brazil say a British woman has been shot and wounded

Officials say a couple and their three children

were targeted by an armed group after taking a wrong turn.

The woman's condition isn't thought to be life threatening.

The Foreign Office says it is in touch with

Disruption expected from a major upgrade at the UK's busiest

train station has not materialised with many trains

More than half of platforms at London's Waterloo station

are closed, so they can be extended to accommodate longer trains.

They will remain closed until 28th August.

Network Rail has warned of "challenging days"

An average of 270,000 journeys are made to and from Waterloo every day.

Mollie King is the first celebrity dancer confirmed to be taking part

in the new series of Strictly Come Dancing.

The 30-year-old singer from The Saturdays said

she was "so excited" to be a contestant in the

The new series starts on BBC One next month.

Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11am.

Good morning. Dave four of the world athletics Championships. Quiet at

the London stadium with no morning session so we are reflecting on

yesterday and what was two different reactions to two different medal

ceremonies with warm applause for Jessica Ennis-Hill as she received a

retrospective gold medal but booing for Justin Gatlin as he received his

100 metres gold. Great Britain have only won one gold medal so far but

hoped the best at night as Laura Muir and Laura Weightman go in the

1500 metres final. Laura Muir is hoping to do the 5000 and 1500

metres double. Sophie Hitchon is a medal hope that she goes in the

final of the hammer. The Olympic bronze medallist goes for a gold

medal at 7pm. In the next half-hour, England's cricketers will get day

four of the final test against South Africa under way and are on course

for a series win against the tourists.

Charlie said his mum left school with no convocations but re-entered

education at 36 and did a doctorate in her 40s and now is a special

reality engineer. The idea she was not wired right probably caused her

to leave it so late. This belief in genetic difference helps no one.

Last year, 23 people who'd been selected for their specific skills -

such as a doctor, shepherdess, plumber - were sent to live

on a remote part of the Highlands and given basic tools and supplies

to build a self-sufficient community.

The idea was a social experiment from Channel 4.

But things quickly went wrong with claims of bullying, cliques,

fights, dog-eat-dog rivalry and rampant sexism

with dominant members of the group accused of trying to starve out

In March 2016, Channel 4 cut off 23 Brits from the outside world.

Tasked with starting a new society from scratch...

It's 12 months, and there's no contact.

Us men need to do the manly jobs - the women need to do the women jobs.

And you're the most horrible group of men I've ever met in my life!

It's a muddy, dark, stinking hellhole.

Human nature's darker side, shown over five nights.

The series was taken off air after the first four episodes,

but the group were left there, and every night this week

at 10pm on Channel 4, we'll see what happened to them.

We can speak now to Katie Tunn, who was a participant on the programme.

Kelly Webb-Lamb, Channel 4's Head of Factual Entertainment.

And entertainment journalist and TV critic Emma Bullimore.

Welcome. How was it? It was brilliant and awful and easy and

really tough. Everything happens. It was a life changing experience. Give

us an example of a high. The sunsets. We were in paradise, one of

the most beautiful places you could imagine in the UK. Seeing the

sunset, you could have a bad day and he would see the sunset over the

hills, there will be seals, Eagles, it was pretty amazing. What was your

motivation to be part of it? If you are given an opportunity that is

unusual, when do you get the chance to almost press pause on your life

and go away and try something new? I live on the Isle of Skye and love

that landscape. It is brilliant to be out in nature so this was perhaps

the next step of being more in nature and living with the

environment and trying to live with the environment rather than against

it. What went wrong? The trouble is, we went... People are very skilled.

We have people with wonderful skills, carpentry skills, whatever,

but we did not share the same goal. People had different ideas of what

they wanted to gain from it and however great your skills, if you do

not want to achieve the same thing... There was a competitive

element which is not conducive for creating a community. Were some

people there to survive in some like you to start afresh and see if you

could create a new society? The idea of survival was problematic. There

were people who went in for different reasons but the people who

went in for survival, if you are trying to survive you are perhaps

insulating yourself and not looking for attributes in others that can

work in a community. If you try to survive, you are perhaps trying to

make sure you are doing the best and it becomes competitive, which is not

good for creating a community. Kelly, are you pleased with this

outcome? That some people left? Some people hated it. There was sexism. I

think pleased is not a word I would use. I think the outcome is

genuinely interesting. For us, surprising, but also it has had

something quite important to say about who we are as people and about

society. What has been interesting for me about the project is that the

idea at the beginning as Katie says was about starting a society from

scratch and that was the question at the start of the series, what would

happen if we could start again? Actually, it does go to a very dark

and quite uncomfortable place in lots of different ways. What is

interesting about that is, for me watching it, you think, do you know

what, I am lucky that I live, I am glad I live in a society with laws

and rules and conventions on how we behave and expectations of how men

and women behave towards each other and have a strong perhaps look after

the week and the structures of society are good for us all rather

than something that perhaps you think, let's get rid of it, wouldn't

it be great to live somewhere where we can do what we wanted. That is

what is interesting about it. You have seen a preview, what think? It

is interesting, the start of a utopian vision, harking back to old

days of TV where it was a social experiment. It is quite disturbing.

I saw a preview of the first episode and I know it gets darker. It is the

creeping elements of misogyny. It was just the way the male

participants seem to treat the female participants as different, we

can members of the group, when it is supposed to be an egalitarian

society. It is alarming especially as in shows like Big Brother we are

used to seeing reduces intervened to say it is bullying, that did not

happen in this show and you have to ask whether responsibility is. With

Channel 4 and the people who took part, presumably, but you selected

those people. You have an idea that they are misogynistic for example?

Really, the way it ended up going was a nap salutes are brights.

People were selected for their skills and everybody had something

to offer, a hunter, fishermen, it was people there who could create a

new society. I think from our point of view, duty of care is absolutely

essential. The premise of the project was this was unlike reality

TV where producers are pulling the strings all the time. It was

completely hands-off. It was this is the project and the cameras were

there to film it. They were monitored all the time and they

could leave, which many did. There was a psychologist if they wanted to

speak to them. What was the worst bit and why did you stick it out? I

cannot go into detail because it is on the programme, but, I don't know,

there were times when you just thought... You missed family and

friends at home. You would have expected that. It is the unexpected

Ewing countered that is interesting. You take the network -- unexpected

that Ewing countered. Being able to get away from the problem and being

able to talk to a different set of people or get some space in and

issue but there you cannot come you see them every day. You have to face

up to thing. There is no white noise to forget about things. In terms of

why I stuck it out, partially stubbornness. Good. And no regrets.

It was really difficult. Some of the most difficult times I had were in

there. But at the same time it was an opportunity. See how you can do

it. We look forward to watching. Thanks for coming on the programme.

Tonight at ten o'clock on Channel 4. A NHS specialist has told this

programme of his anger that his British wife

and their three young children have been stranded on opposite sides

of the Atlantic because this government won't let the couple's

two adopted children into the UK. Patrick Thies, an American

orthopaedic surgeon who was recruited to work

at Birmingham Hospital, says he may now have to give

up his job to return to his family The family initially

applied for the wrong visa But they say the way British

authorities have treated their birth son and adopted sons

differently is unforgivable. We spoke earlier to Patrick

from Oregon in the US where he is now living

with their two adopted sons and Gillian Thies

in our Birmingham studio, who told us more about

how the family found My oldest two children,

who are American, and also adopted, they were denied entry

when we arrived at We've spent thousands over the last

year and a half trying to get them here permanently

and legally, and we've So about a month ago we got

a letter saying the most recent attempt was denied

and so they had to leave And, Patrick, that's where

you are with your two adopted sons, Benjamin and Edward,

aged ten and 12. Is the issue that they

are adopted as opposed I think both of them are an issue,

both as adoptive children - UK law says that they cannot be

treated any differently than biological children,

but immigration thinks otherwise Well, again, following UK law,

they're my children - they're our children,

and I don't treat them any differently than

my biological child. This has been going on now, Gillian,

for long enough - long enough. Hopefully now that they're back

in the States and they have applied for another visa,

and we are hoping that it will be granted very soon -

this week, hopefully, We'd just like to have them back

as soon as possible. What impact is it having

on your family life? Well, total - we're completely

separated and we can't make I have no idea when they're

going to be back. Obviously it's expensive,

having to buy plane tickets And, Patrick, can you

describe to our audience what it was like when the children

were originally detained arriving It was a little scary for them

because they were fingerprinted Now, it was a very nice holding

cell, but they knew for sure that they were being detained

by immigration and the border patrol, and they had no idea why

and what was going on. OK, so how do you think this

is going to be resolved? Well, ideally, someone

at the governmental level will look at it and say that this is silly

and approve either the visas, or even better - their mother

is British and just accept that British citizens and give them that,

but it's just a matter of time There were brought in,

your adopted boys, they were brought It was clear that it

wasn't just going to be for tourism purposes,

for a short visit, so I wonder if you could argue the immigration

laws have been applied correctly? Oh, absolutely, and that's something

that I've said repeatedly, is the immigration laws

were applied throughout this. The drawback is we called the UK

Government before we started this whole process and this

is what they told us to do - come into the country

as American tourists, change their status in country

to dependent visas. As it turns out, that

advice was incorrect, We were following

governmental advice. That they had to leave the country

and apply as Patrick's There's no way for me to get them

here as my dependents, So that's what we decided to do,

to send them out of the country We thought it would take two weeks,

and then the most recent news was 12 weeks, so that was another

shock to us. But if things go according to plan,

doing it that way might mean Patrick can return to his job in Birmingham

where you are, and your two older And then my contract is up,

and then I get placed... Or they've already told me

that they are going to give me definite work at that point,

or a contract, then we'll have to redo all three visas to become

indefinite work contracts. Well, thank you both -

thank you very much for talking We asked the Home Office for comment

on the Thies family's situation. They told us, "We do not routinely

comment on individual cases. All applications for leave

to remain are considered on their individual merits in line

with the immigration rules." Thank you for your messages about

our film following Lily and Jessica, two of Britain's youngest

transgender children. We have been following them for a couple of

years. This texter says, "I am the carer of a trans child. It is not a

path I would have chosen to go down and seeing him struggle daily

getting dressed with a developing female body is torturous. As a

family, it is a massive journey, but as long as he is happy and safe and

doing well in school, we will support whatever path he chooses. I

wish others would give him the same respect." This from Tracey, "My

partner told me at the age of 47 that she wanted to transition. It

was tough at first, but ten years on, she is now happier than ever.

The boy shell she had to live in was killing her. She is known since she

was seven. Let the kids who they want to be. It save years of

heartache." David e-mails this, "I'm watching your programme today

regarding transgender and regarding age, I have had this since the age

of six to seven. And have suffered for over 60 years, 60 years, you

know your thoughts, but in my case, you were told to get a grip or

offered electric shock treatment." Thank you. Wendy says, "I have a

grandchild who is transgender who presented with a preferred gender

behaviours from the age of three. Another grandson at a similar age

when I called him chicken went on to say "I am a little boy." Children do

identity with their gender. Thank you for your programme it does

help." Re-Decca says "How can a child of three articulate they want

to be the opposite sex?" Deborah says, "I am a transgender female. I

have known that I was different from the age of four, but back in the 70s

the world was a very different place to live than today. There is a lot

more understanding for people like me today. I am still doing the same

job, driving freight trains. All the lads I work with have been great

with me in letting me find the person that I need to be." Thank you