21/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


21/08/2017

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Hello, it's Monday, it's nine o'clock.

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I'm Joanna Gosling welcome to the programme.

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has found scammers are increasingly taking advantage of the goodwill of

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people donating money in the aftermath of major tragedies.

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So how can you be sure are you that your cash

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is going to the causes you hoped to help?

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The town was a Brew seat bonus. Was that a one-off or more widespread? I

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would say about 80% of us were doing it.

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Online hate crimes will now be treated as seriously as offences

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The Crown Prosecution Service has updated its rules

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following the growing number of cases occurring.

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If the crime is committed because of somebody's hatred of that particular

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characteristic, that is a hate crime. It is important to define it

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as such. If we define it as a hate crime we can ask the court to

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increase the sentence if they are convicted or plead guilty.

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We will be talking to Love Island's Olivia about the abuse

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The curtain has come down on Mo Farah's glittering track career with

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a 3000 metres when in Birmingham. What next for the athletics legend

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and what will his legacy be? We talked to his first running coach.

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Hello, welcome to the programme. We're live until 11 this morning.

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Do you suffer from arthritis? It is a condition that affects 10 million

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people of all ages, including children, according to the NHS. The

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leading arthritis charity says it is being ignored as a major health

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issue. Get in touch if you have got arthritis and you know what it feels

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like. use the hashtag Victoria live

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and If you text, you will be charged Hate crimes committed online should

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be pursued as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

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according to new guidelines for prosecutors

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in England and Wales. The Crown Prosecution Service

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says it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

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which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

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in Charlottesville in the US. Rhodri Colwyn Philipps,

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the fourth Viscount St Davids, jailed last month for racially

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aggravated threats on Facebook against Gina Miller,

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the businesswoman behind She said she felt violated

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by his shocking comments, just one of many online

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attacks she suffered. Now, the Crown Prosecution Service

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says these kinds of crimes must be dealt with as robustly

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as offences on the street. It is promising a tougher response,

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to build public confidence. There were more than 15,000 hate

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crime prosecutions in 2015-2016, the highest number ever,

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and a third of those convicted But the number of cases referred

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by police to persecutors fell by almost 10%, a drop the CPS says

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it is investigating. With the explosion in the use of

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social media in recent years, it is very important the prosecuting

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authorities, the CPS, the police, are as up-to-date as possible in

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making sure they are using the law to its fullest extent. There is no

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hiding place for these perpetrators. The law is clear. And if you persist

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in this sort of behaviour, you will be detected, caught and punished.

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Some critics say police and prosecutors

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moved too slowly to apprehend online abusers.

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That means people are reluctant to come forward.

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The CPS hopes new guidance will create the

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best possible chance of achieving justice for all victims.

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The CPS says the campaign is not just aimed at raising awareness but

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also encouraging victims of online hate crimes to come forward.

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We know this is a crime that's underreported.

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Sometimes people feel that they just have to sort of put up

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with it, it's something that happens to them because they're disabled,

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because they are gay, because they're a particular religion.

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So we're really encouraging people to

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think about the behaviours that are shown to them and to think about

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reporting things which will be a hate crime.

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Let us know your thoughts on that as well. The usual ways of getting in

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touch. Matthew Price is in the BBC

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Newsroom with a summary The US navy says ten of its sailors

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are missing and five have been injured after one of its warships

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collided with an oil tanker off It's the second serious collision

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involving an American President Trump has said his

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thoughts and prayers More people will die from fires

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started by faulty white goods, if ministers do not act

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to implement safety guidelines. That's according to

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the London Fire Brigade, They've sent a letter

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to Theresa May in response to the Grenfell Tower fire,

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which it's thought was started It warns some products

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are still being sold Spanish police are investigating

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a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain, and assaults

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by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe the Iman,

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Abdelbaki Es Satty, may have radicalised younger members

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of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

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and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

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whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

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and a metro station in the city, With us now is our Europe

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Correspondent, Gavin Lee. Gavin, what our police saying about

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this possible link involving the imam and these other attacks in

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Europe? They searched his empty property over the weekend. They

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believe he is dead, that he accidentally killed himself in an

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explosion where he was planning this attack. There was bomb-making

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material. There was an explosion. Two people died. He was living in a

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Pyrenees town, that is where the search took place. They believe some

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of the parents of the suspects killed in the attack, say they were

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radicalised by this man. There were links, it appears, with the Belgian

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attacks, in Brussels. He was in prison were one of the suspects

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behind the 2004 Madrid attack. We have had confirmation from the

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Spanish police that the driver here on Las Ramblas, the suspect who

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carried out that van attack, is Eunice Abouyaaqoub. -- Younes

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Abouyaaqoub. They said they were looking for this one suspect who are

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still missing. There is CCTV image re--- imagery which shows him

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leaving on foot away from here. We have clarity at least on who exactly

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this man is who is still missing. A suggestion from some of the

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authorities this morning that there is a Europe-wide hunt for that man?

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Just to be clear, the Spanish authorities aren't saying they

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believed he left the country. They haven't got any evidence that he has

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left the Catalan area. What they are saying is, they put out an alert on

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Thursday night for assistance. After the Berlin attacks, the attacker was

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found in Milan. After the Paris attacks, one of the men was hiding

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out in Brussels. They are aware of that. Not suggesting he has

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definitely left the country. Gavin Lee, thank you very much

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indeed. We will be keeping you up-to-date with those developments

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as they continue here on the news channel.

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Military exercises by South Korean and American armed

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forces are going ahead, despite protests from the North.

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The drills are conducted every year, to prepare for an attack

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The latest come amid heightened tensions following an exchange

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of threats between Pyongyang and Washington.

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The United Nations says 14,000 people have fled

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from the Iraqi city of Tal Afar, where government forces have

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launched a major offensive against so-called Islamic State.

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About 2000 militants remain in the city which has been bombed

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Motorists in Wales are being asked to pass footage

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captured on dashcams to police, in an effort to clamp down

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A pilot scheme in North Wales has seen action taken against more

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than 100 drivers over the past year, after they were filmed

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Members of the public are encourage to upload clips of "dodgy driving"

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Big Ben will fall silent this lunchtime -

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It's part of a major refurbishment of the Houses of Parliament,

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which could see the bells muted for longest period in their history.

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Since 1859, Big Ben has chimed through the reign of six

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monarchs and two World Wars, with only a handful

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However, Parliament says the bell now needs to be disconnected

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for the safety of construction workers during major

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But the plan to silence Big Ben has caused, well, rather a ding-dong.

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There has been a backlash from the public and politicians.

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The Prime Minister, Theresa May, says she has asked the Speaker

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of the Commons to look into the matter urgently,

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to see whether Big Ben could continue to be heard.

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For now, Big Ben is due to be silenced until 2021,

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except for special occasions, such as New Year's Eve

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People are invited to gather in Parliament Square to hear

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the final bongs at noon, before the great bell

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We will bring you those final bonds live at midday.

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The United States will experience a coast to coast total solar eclipse

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for the first time in almost a century later today.

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It is the first time in 99 years. The movement will turn day into

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night for two and a half minutes across 14 US states. In the UK, a

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partial solar eclipse will be visible just before sunset as the

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moon appears to take a small bite out of the sun.

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Here's a very good example of why not to use a mobile

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Look what happened when a sinkhole opened up at this crossing

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A scooter driver who was on his mobile didn't realise -

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Don't worry though, luckily he walked away unharmed.

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That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

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Those pictures are incredible. Thank you. Still to come, we have a

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special report on how scammers are increasingly taking advantage of the

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goodwill of people looking to make donations in the aftermath of major

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tragedies. How can you be sure your donated cash is going to the causes

:12:12.:12:18.

you want to help? Get in touch with's. -- with's.

:12:19.:12:23.

Britain bidding farewell to Sir Mo Farah.

:12:24.:12:36.

The four-time Olympic gold medallist won his last ever track race on home

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soil. He took the 3000 metres at the Birmingham Diamond League meeting.

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It is that Sprint at the end, showing his power, dominance, and

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just kissing the track to pay homage through his years on the track. The

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father of four is now switching to road racing. He said all he dreams

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about as a kid was running for Great Britain. We are going to be speaking

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to the coach who started coaching at the age of 12. Totten, Wembley,

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another bad result? They're using Wembley

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as their home ground this season, is being knocked down

:13:16.:13:19.

to make way for a new one. The problem sometimes

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with using Wembley is that the away team can feel so fired up

:13:24.:13:26.

like it's an FA Cup Final. On the pitch, it

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finished 2-1 to Chelsea. All smiles for Chelsea, and a happy

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manager in Antonio Conte, who Spurs have only won once

:13:34.:13:35.

in 11 games at Wembley Talk of a curse is all a little too

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early at this stage. But one to watch, definitely. Yes,

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we will. It has been a great weekend for Britain's eventers.

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and it's the first time they've won the title since 2009.

:14:03.:14:06.

Nicola Wilson also took individual bronze.

:14:07.:14:08.

Wilson could afford two penalties to secure the team gold

:14:09.:14:11.

That confirmed Britain's win, and her own bronze individual medal.

:14:12.:14:15.

Germany claimed team silver with Sweden finishing third.

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Scammers are increasingly taking advantage of the goodwill of people

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looking to make donations to help in the aftermath of major

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tragedies, an investigation by the Victoria Derbyshire

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The UK's fraud reporting centre, Action Fraud, has shown us examples

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of fake fund-raising websites set up in the aftermath of the Grenfell

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Tower fire that they've managed to take down.

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But we've also found examples of organisations which look

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like charities but aren't raising money on the street.

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So how sure are you that your donated cash is going

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With more than 200,000 registered charities in the UK,

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you're not going to struggle to find a good cause

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Last year, the British public donated around

:15:17.:15:22.

And with the charity and voluntary sector worth around ?45 billion

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to our economy each year, it's a big-money business.

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So how can we be sure that the money we give on the street

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or online is actually going to the causes we want to support?

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It's somebody else pretending to be us.

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So that can't do us any good, that's for sure.

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Do you not feel that you are taking advantage

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of the public's generosity? Yes.

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So these things do tend to happen with regularity, I'm afraid,

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whenever there is some sort of high-profile event that really

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As a guide dog owner, I've benefited from charity.

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And to say thank you, I volunteer some spare time

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But for quite a few years now, I've come across some fundraisers

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on the street who just don't sit right.

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So I've decided to film some of them.

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We buy mobility scooters for disabled adults and children.

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Oh, right, yeah? And we're asking people...

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His name is Salim Sayed, or Super Si.

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He's raising money for something called the Happiness Foundation,

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which claims to buy mobility scooters for local people.

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What we do, we buy mobility scooters for adults

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and children who are registered as disabled locally.

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Everyone wants to support charity or whatever...

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Exactly, if it weren't for people like you,

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The Happiness Foundation is not a registered charity or a company.

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Fundraising like this is not illegal, but it does make it

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very hard to check to see if they are doing what they say

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Online, a number of people have raised concerns

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There was two complaints in 2014 on the Happiness

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And then here starts the abusive ones.

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This has been a problem for a not-for-profit company also

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It feels like a great injustice to me, that we are not

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doing anything wrong, we are actually doing

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We mostly don't charge for what we've done.

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Kath Temple set up her Happiness Foundation eight years ago

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in memory of her brother, to provide counselling

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But four years ago, she started getting complaints about

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We were presenting to football's governing bodies,

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Why should I be embarrassed? I haven't done anything wrong.

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But I felt embarrassed because I knew that

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if they did a search, perhaps that would come up.

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It's not my Happiness Foundation, it's somebody else

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So that can't do us any good, that's for sure.

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We tried to talk to Salim Sayed, but he hasn't responded to our messages.

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We did manage to track down one of the men behind

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the Happiness Foundation, Marcus Leavsley.

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He told us they weren't pretending to be Kath Temple's

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Happiness Foundation, and they do provide mobility

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scooters for disabled people, though he wouldn't show us

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Hello, is Marcus Leavsley around, please?

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Mr Leavsley, it's the Victoria Derbyshire Show.

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Are you going to come and have a chat with us?

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We asked Marcus Leavsley to be interviewed, and he declined.

:18:58.:19:00.

We asked him to show us that he really is doing the good

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He has told us, however, that the Happiness Foundation

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no longer exists, and claims that he will still be honouring

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We've seen evidence that shows the same people behind

:19:13.:19:20.

the Happiness Foundation are selling the same competition tickets under

:19:21.:19:24.

They're still not a registered charity or a company,

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and they still claim to be buying mobility scooters

:19:31.:19:33.

We've seen no evidence that the actions of this

:19:34.:19:39.

Happiness Foundation, or the Theme for a Dream Project, are illegal.

:19:40.:19:41.

But increasingly, campaigners are taking action themselves

:19:42.:19:45.

when they come across fundraisers that worry them.

:19:46.:19:49.

Have you looked at their files? No, I haven't.

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Do you know any of the charity work that they actually do?

:19:53.:19:54.

Colin Eastway was a paratrooper in the British Army, where he served

:19:55.:19:57.

He has been confronting people who he thinks are posing

:19:58.:20:02.

as military charities, and posting videos online.

:20:03.:20:07.

Friends who have been injured in Afghanistan.

:20:08.:20:10.

For example, lost limbs, maybe have PTSD or neurological injuries,

:20:11.:20:12.

they will look towards the charities for help and assistance.

:20:13.:20:22.

In terms of the way that you feel disrespects their service.

:20:23.:20:24.

It does make me very angry, to think that they are actually

:20:25.:20:30.

stealing money from my friends, who are looking towards

:20:31.:20:32.

People think they're putting money in the bucket and

:20:33.:20:40.

When actually they're not, they're given to a scam company.

:20:41.:20:45.

And what do you think about these people?

:20:46.:20:49.

Obviously, it's the lowest of the low.

:20:50.:20:51.

Stealing from a charity, stealing from a disabled charity,

:20:52.:20:53.

stealing from any sort of charity is the lowest of the low.

:20:54.:20:56.

What would you say to people if, you know, looking at the YouTube

:20:57.:20:59.

videos, looking at some of the confrontations,

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why would it be wrong to see that as vigilante action on your part?

:21:01.:21:04.

I'm not a vigilante. I'm just a member of the public.

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And as a member of the public, you have the right to ask

:21:07.:21:12.

questions like, "What's your charity registration number?"

:21:13.:21:14.

"How much of my ?1 goes to the charity?"

:21:15.:21:16.

And you never feel that you go too far?

:21:17.:21:18.

No, I never go too far, never go too far.

:21:19.:21:22.

Beyond the grey areas organisations like Marcus Leavsley's

:21:23.:21:25.

Happiness Foundation operate in, there are criminals

:21:26.:21:27.

who take advantage of the public's generosity.

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I've spoken to a man who admits he used to steal money

:21:32.:21:34.

He worked for companies that raised money for Armed Forces charities

:21:35.:21:40.

through bucket collections and competition ticket sales.

:21:41.:21:44.

But a big chunk of the cash ended up in his and his colleagues' pockets.

:21:45.:21:50.

They basically raised all of the money

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and then gave money to a certain charity.

:21:53.:21:54.

So, out of every ?10 that was going in your bucket,

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or through tickets sold, how much was the charity getting?

:21:58.:22:00.

So ?2 out of every ?10? ?2 out of every ?10.

:22:01.:22:06.

I mean, how clear was it from the tickets

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that were being sold as to how much of that money

:22:09.:22:11.

The only thing about it was just hidden in the back of a folder.

:22:12.:22:16.

Just a statement that said, "Look, we'll give 20% to this charity."

:22:17.:22:25.

They also sold competition tickets for ?2.50.

:22:26.:22:27.

Steve and his colleagues would convince people to give them

:22:28.:22:29.

extra money by telling them they were helping injured soldiers.

:22:30.:22:32.

Instead, it was going straight into the fundraisers' pockets.

:22:33.:22:34.

Do you not feel that you were taking advantage

:22:35.:22:41.

Yes, at times. I mean, it was.

:22:42.:22:47.

I mean, quite a few of us like to think we're doing a good deed,

:22:48.:22:51.

but at the end of the day, it was a job for us.

:22:52.:22:54.

And in particular, sometimes we earned good money.

:22:55.:22:56.

Solicitor Robert Craig is a specialist in charity law.

:22:57.:22:59.

He said the public need to take a careful look

:23:00.:23:01.

before donating to apparently good causes.

:23:02.:23:04.

My wife and I were out, and some boys approached us

:23:05.:23:06.

to raise money for a gym which was teaching boxing to kids.

:23:07.:23:11.

And we thought that was a very good idea,

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so we said, you know, tell us more about it.

:23:14.:23:16.

I asked a couple more questions, and they sort of disappeared.

:23:17.:23:21.

We took the name of the charity, or the organisation,

:23:22.:23:23.

And the guy who ran it assured me they have no collections,

:23:24.:23:32.

that they don't raise money from the public like that - they get grants.

:23:33.:23:36.

And he has heard about this before, and obviously here are some

:23:37.:23:39.

youngsters starting on an early life of crime, trying to raise money

:23:40.:23:42.

Which is deplorable, but, you know, what can you do?

:23:43.:23:49.

I'm sure a lot of people going past would have just

:23:50.:23:52.

And should the police be doing more, do you think?

:23:53.:23:56.

I don't think you can expect the police to do much more

:23:57.:24:02.

than deal with very obvious cases where they find that,

:24:03.:24:05.

for example, because they see people stealing money out of a tin,

:24:06.:24:11.

or they catch people as part of a larger fraud.

:24:12.:24:14.

It's to do with, what's the public interest in pursuing it?

:24:15.:24:17.

And how likely are they to get a conviction?

:24:18.:24:19.

And also, whether finding a few people will actually

:24:20.:24:21.

stamp out the problem, which I doubt it will.

:24:22.:24:29.

I'm here in the City of London, because the police here gather

:24:30.:24:33.

all of the reports of charity fraud from around the country

:24:34.:24:35.

so that local forces can investigate it.

:24:36.:24:39.

I want to see if I can find out just how big the problem really is.

:24:40.:24:48.

In terms of reports of the last year,

:24:49.:24:51.

we had 800 reports made to us by the public about charity fraud.

:24:52.:24:56.

We're conscious that what's reported to us is but a fraction

:24:57.:24:59.

of what actually happens in terms of all kinds of fraud,

:25:00.:25:02.

So that 800 is a fairly large number of reports

:25:03.:25:06.

But we're conscious that the problem is most likely a lot larger

:25:07.:25:11.

Can you give me any recent examples of how people have exploited

:25:12.:25:16.

Yes, a very recent example, and a very tragic example,

:25:17.:25:21.

would be websites and Just Giving pages

:25:22.:25:23.

being set up in support of the Grenfell Tower incident.

:25:24.:25:30.

We within the NFIB set up a process where we could monitor new websites

:25:31.:25:34.

that are being set up with a link to Grenfell Tower,

:25:35.:25:37.

especially anything reported to be a charity collection website.

:25:38.:25:43.

One of them directly on the first day that we set up

:25:44.:25:48.

the process, we did establish was a fraudulent website.

:25:49.:25:50.

The person who set it up, as soon as money was being paid

:25:51.:25:54.

into his bank account, he was then withdrawing money

:25:55.:25:56.

We managed to get that website taken down on the same day

:25:57.:26:00.

You tend to find it's happening more and more frequently

:26:01.:26:05.

in connection with high profile, you know, tragedies.

:26:06.:26:10.

We also had similar incidents occurring with the Manchester

:26:11.:26:13.

So these things do tend to happen with a regularity, I'm afraid.

:26:14.:26:20.

Whenever there is some sort of high profile event that really touches

:26:21.:26:23.

at the heart of the public who, in their generosity,

:26:24.:26:25.

they want to do something, they want provide a way of giving

:26:26.:26:28.

So how do we avoid being duped by a fake charity?

:26:29.:26:32.

The regulator, the Charity Commission, has this advice...

:26:33.:26:36.

Check that street fundraisers have a charity registration number.

:26:37.:26:39.

That they are happy to give further information when asked.

:26:40.:26:42.

And when donating online, avoid requests to give cash

:26:43.:26:44.

The vast majority of fundraising is legitimate, but we found grey

:26:45.:26:53.

areas where it is all but impossible to check where your money ends up.

:26:54.:26:56.

And there are scammers that are prepared to go to ever more

:26:57.:26:59.

sophisticated lengths to snatch money from those who most need it.

:27:00.:27:03.

With authorities' resources stretched, it's increasingly down

:27:04.:27:05.

to us to make sure that that cash is going where we want it to.

:27:06.:27:15.

Led us know your thoughts on that. Peter on Facebook, I am very wary of

:27:16.:27:22.

anyone on the street all with a stall at car-boot sales claiming to

:27:23.:27:27.

be doing it for charity, how do we know it is genuine? Christopher

:27:28.:27:31.

says, I have been involved in the charity sector for a few years, and

:27:32.:27:35.

it needs to get a grip on this, because it gives honest charity is a

:27:36.:27:38.

bad name and undermines the often crucial work the sector is doing.

:27:39.:27:42.

The vast majority of those I have worked with and working with today

:27:43.:27:48.

in the charity sector are honest and dedicated to the causes they are

:27:49.:27:50.

helping. Keep your thoughts coming in.

:27:51.:27:54.

And in the next hour, we'll hear from the charity

:27:55.:27:56.

regulator and a woman whose charity to raise funds for her son's

:27:57.:27:59.

Also coming up, Love Island's Olivia will be talking to us about the new

:28:00.:28:20.

changes in hate crime law. And Mo Farah's incredible career on the

:28:21.:28:24.

track finished last night with yet another win, and we expected nothing

:28:25.:28:30.

less, of course. We speak to three people who have worked and trained

:28:31.:28:37.

with him throughout his career. Putts join Matthew for a summary of

:28:38.:28:39.

today's news. Hate crimes committed online should

:28:40.:28:41.

be pursued as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

:28:42.:28:44.

according to new guidelines for prosecutors

:28:45.:28:46.

in England and Wales. The Crown Prosecution Service

:28:47.:28:48.

says it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

:28:49.:28:52.

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

:28:53.:28:55.

in Charlottesville in the US. The US Navy says ten of its sailors

:28:56.:29:09.

are missing and five have been injured after one of its warships

:29:10.:29:12.

collided with an oil tanker It's the second serious collision

:29:13.:29:15.

involving an American President Trump has said

:29:16.:29:18.

his thoughts and prayers Spanish police are investigating

:29:19.:29:21.

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain and assaults

:29:22.:29:27.

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe the imam

:29:28.:29:30.

Abdelbaki Es Satty may have radicalised younger members

:29:31.:29:36.

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

:29:37.:29:38.

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

:29:39.:29:41.

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

:29:42.:29:44.

and a Metro station in the city, More people will die from fires

:29:45.:29:48.

started by faulty white goods, if ministers do not act

:29:49.:29:59.

to implement safety guidelines. That's according to

:30:00.:30:01.

the London Fire Brigade, They've sent a letter

:30:02.:30:03.

to Theresa May in response to the Grenfell Tower fire,

:30:04.:30:08.

which it's thought was started It warns some products

:30:09.:30:10.

are still being sold Big Ben is going to bring out for

:30:11.:30:29.

the last time today, for the first time on a daily basis in four years.

:30:30.:30:34.

The Houses of Parliament are undergoing a major refurbishment and

:30:35.:30:37.

the bells will be muted for the longest period in their 157 year

:30:38.:30:42.

history. Some MPs have criticised the plan.

:30:43.:30:47.

We will be bringing those bells to you live, the last time they ring at

:30:48.:30:55.

midday. That is the latest BBC News. Very controversial, isn't it? We

:30:56.:30:59.

will of course listen to those bells at midday.

:31:00.:31:04.

Now the sport. Mo Farah ended his British track career with victory in

:31:05.:31:08.

the 3000 metres in Birmingham. He is now switching to road racing. He

:31:09.:31:14.

said as a kid he dreams of running for Britain. Chelsea manager Antonio

:31:15.:31:18.

Conte has warned Tottenham teams will be inspired by playing against

:31:19.:31:23.

them at Wembley. Spurs lost 2-1 at Wembley yesterday in their first

:31:24.:31:26.

league game at the National Stadium. And Great Britain won team gold at

:31:27.:31:29.

the European eventing Championships in Poland, the first time they have

:31:30.:31:34.

won the title since 2009. I'm back at ten.

:31:35.:31:37.

From today, prosecutors will be expected to treat online hate crimes

:31:38.:31:40.

The Crown Prosecution Service has updated its rules

:31:41.:31:45.

following the growing number of online abuse cases.

:31:46.:31:47.

A hate crime is an offence motivated by prejudice

:31:48.:31:52.

towards a person's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation

:31:53.:31:54.

The CPS says it will prosecute complaints of online hate crime

:31:55.:32:00.

"with the same robust approach used with offline offending,

:32:01.:32:03.

while recognising that children may not appreciate the potential harm

:32:04.:32:05.

and seriousness of their communications".

:32:06.:32:06.

It's Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders,

:32:07.:32:10.

said many hate crimes were under reported.

:32:11.:32:22.

There are two things we have lost. One is internal guidance for

:32:23.:32:27.

prosecutors, the different things they need to take into account in

:32:28.:32:31.

relation to the specific strands of hate crime, and to make sure that we

:32:32.:32:35.

are asking for a sentence left, where we are convicting individuals,

:32:36.:32:39.

and also their public facing statements, and also social media

:32:40.:32:43.

campaign we are launching today. That is important because we know

:32:44.:32:47.

this is a crime that is underreported.

:32:48.:32:47.

Sometimes people feel that they just have to sort of put up with it,

:32:48.:32:51.

it's something that happens to them because they're disabled,

:32:52.:32:53.

because they are gay, because they're a particular

:32:54.:32:55.

So we're really encouraging people to think about the behaviours that

:32:56.:33:00.

are shown to them and to think about reporting things

:33:01.:33:02.

Last month, some MPs told us about the trolling and abusive

:33:03.:33:07.

language they regularly received - some of which falls

:33:08.:33:09.

into the category of a hate crime. Let's hear from them.

:33:10.:33:18.

Caroline Ansell is as bad as Isis, and Hitler.

:33:19.:33:21.

Get out of my country, you ugly racist...

:33:22.:33:37.

I want to see your head swinging from Tower Bridge.

:33:38.:33:43.

We voted Brexit and Article 50 is going to get triggered anyway.

:33:44.:33:56.

Well, joining us now is Paul Twocock, who is from the LGBT

:33:57.:34:03.

Olivia Attwood, who has been the victim of vicious abuse

:34:04.:34:07.

since appearing on the programme Love Island.

:34:08.:34:10.

This is her first TV interview talking about it.

:34:11.:34:14.

And Sheila Atim, who has been racially abused

:34:15.:34:16.

in public many times, but never online.

:34:17.:34:23.

Good morning. Thank you for joining us. Olivia, welcome. What sort of

:34:24.:34:31.

abuse have you received? When I was on the show, unfortunately a lot of

:34:32.:34:37.

the abuse was directed at my family. I was in a bubble. Since I came out

:34:38.:34:43.

it has all been online. A lot of it I couldn't repeat on breakfast

:34:44.:34:48.

television. Can you give us the censored version? Death threats,

:34:49.:34:57.

people making personal comments. How many death threats? A significant

:34:58.:35:04.

amount. What do they say? Things like, you should die. What do they

:35:05.:35:10.

say about why they hate you so much? There are no specific reasons. I

:35:11.:35:13.

think they have watched the show and they feel like they know you. They

:35:14.:35:19.

want to express their thoughts. Because they are hiding behind a

:35:20.:35:27.

keyboard, it is being able to get that message across that they

:35:28.:35:30.

believe there are no consequences, which often there aren't. Do you

:35:31.:35:35.

feel threatened? I made a conscious effort to not let it affect me. I

:35:36.:35:38.

went into the series with the eyes open. When I came into this industry

:35:39.:35:43.

I was warned this was something I would have to put up with. I think

:35:44.:35:50.

it is so sad that you work in the public eye and you are warned you

:35:51.:35:53.

will have to tolerate this kind of behaviour. That is quite an issue.

:35:54.:35:59.

That we normalise it to that extent. What impact as it had on you? It has

:36:00.:36:04.

been upsetting. It would be wrong to say it hasn't. But it is, for me,

:36:05.:36:10.

I'm quite thick-skinned. Somebody who wasn't like me, the effect it

:36:11.:36:16.

could have on them emotionally and mentally, is devastating. You say

:36:17.:36:23.

that you were told to expect it. Is there anything that you have thought

:36:24.:36:29.

you probably should report it? Would you report scoffed? There are

:36:30.:36:37.

things. Is this normal? You can't pretend you haven't seen it. You

:36:38.:36:42.

don't really know what you are meant to do when you see it and who you

:36:43.:36:46.

should talk to, because it is so normalised. You see it so much. I

:36:47.:36:50.

see some any people in the industry who do what I do get the same

:36:51.:36:55.

messages and comments. It is one of those things you are programmed to

:36:56.:37:01.

believe it is quite normal. Woody report something to the police? If I

:37:02.:37:06.

felt a genuine threat to my life, to my safety, I would. You say you have

:37:07.:37:12.

death threats, but you wouldn't report those? I personally try not

:37:13.:37:20.

to take it literally. I hope it is just what you see on there. But for

:37:21.:37:26.

someone else that might not be the case. Paul, where would you draw the

:37:27.:37:35.

line? If you feel you have been intimidated, and certainly if you

:37:36.:37:38.

are receiving threats online, they should be reported. What you are

:37:39.:37:43.

saying is absolutely right. It depends on the individual. You

:37:44.:37:47.

shouldn't have to just grin and bear this sort of intimidation. In online

:37:48.:37:53.

spaces you can have a mob intimidating you. If you imagine

:37:54.:37:56.

that on the street, you would report that. You should think about the

:37:57.:38:03.

equivalence. If we don't crack down on online hate crime, it will get

:38:04.:38:07.

worse and seep into other forms of hate crime. Is there a direct link

:38:08.:38:11.

between someone doing something online and feeling emboldened to

:38:12.:38:17.

speak out? Or is it someone sitting quietly at the keyboard feeling that

:38:18.:38:24.

they will get away with it, and remains defiant? I haven't read any

:38:25.:38:29.

research which shows that direct link. If you'd think, through common

:38:30.:38:35.

sense, if we say it is permissible to have this sort of hatred online,

:38:36.:38:39.

people will feel emboldened and feel like this is permissible in society.

:38:40.:38:46.

Online spaces are so important in societies and communities that we

:38:47.:38:49.

should be cracking down on this hate online, where it is more prevalent

:38:50.:38:53.

than on the streets. We don't want to increase hate crime in the street

:38:54.:38:57.

as well. Olivia, have you had a face-to-face abuse as well? No, I

:38:58.:39:03.

haven't. That is the confusing thing about these situations. All the

:39:04.:39:07.

reaction I have had in public has been positive. It doesn't match up.

:39:08.:39:13.

There is something quite wrong there. There is a whole community of

:39:14.:39:17.

people online that feel so passionately against me in this way.

:39:18.:39:22.

But when I am out on a day-to-day basis, people are lovely, it is all

:39:23.:39:26.

positive. It doesn't weigh up. Sheila has had abuse face-to-face

:39:27.:39:32.

but not online. What has your experience been? Yeah, obviously I

:39:33.:39:39.

am a black woman, so I have experienced racism ever since I was

:39:40.:39:44.

a child in the street. You get people shouting at you from cars. It

:39:45.:39:54.

can come at any point. I was confronted with my friend by people

:39:55.:39:57.

in the street because they felt like that at that point in time. They saw

:39:58.:40:03.

us as a target. I have had it on the train. You get it at work sometimes.

:40:04.:40:08.

It is kind of a regular occurrence. Do you think it is right to treat

:40:09.:40:13.

online abuse as harshly as off-line? Absolutely. Even though I haven't

:40:14.:40:18.

been a victim of online abuse myself, I have friends who have been

:40:19.:40:22.

victims of online abuse. I have witnessed the online abuse that a

:40:23.:40:26.

lot of people who are in the public eye received. It can be just

:40:27.:40:31.

psychologically taxing and damaging, just like other abuse. Even though I

:40:32.:40:37.

have managed to get through life, you still take it with you. You can

:40:38.:40:40.

actually be quite frightening to know that somebody who is not in any

:40:41.:40:47.

close proximity to you, still has a way of reaching you and getting to

:40:48.:40:51.

you. That is quite frightening. Paul, if someone is saying something

:40:52.:40:54.

online that they wouldn't say to someone's face, do they perhaps not

:40:55.:40:58.

really realise the impact of what they are doing, but also how serious

:40:59.:41:05.

an issue it is due macro particularly with kids, actually,

:41:06.:41:10.

because kids can potentially say anything online and not necessarily

:41:11.:41:14.

realise that what they are doing would equate with a crime? I think

:41:15.:41:20.

it is important, that's why we need to treat online hate crime as

:41:21.:41:24.

seriously. There is terrible bullying in our schools. Over halve

:41:25.:41:34.

of lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans children are abused at school. There

:41:35.:41:37.

is still an important lesson to be learned, whether somebody is a child

:41:38.:41:42.

or an adult, that this is never acceptable, that it does create

:41:43.:41:46.

psychological damage. People shouldn't feel like they can't be

:41:47.:41:49.

who they are, that they can't live their lives because of somebody

:41:50.:41:54.

else's violent hatred towards them. What is the way to deal with it if

:41:55.:41:59.

kids are doing the sort of things you are talking about? Does become a

:42:00.:42:05.

crime issue immediately? You can see in the CBS guidelines -- CPS

:42:06.:42:16.

guidelines, all the work we do with schools is educating children to

:42:17.:42:19.

think about the impact of what they are doing to their peers. Michael

:42:20.:42:23.

Lyndall has tweeted to say that we are in the slippery slopes of

:42:24.:42:27.

censorship. How will they balance this with the right of free speech?

:42:28.:42:32.

What do you think of the right for people to have free speech? I think

:42:33.:42:40.

it is not anything like that. I'm quite opinionated myself. There is a

:42:41.:42:44.

line between being opinionated and abusive. You can say you don't like

:42:45.:42:47.

someone and don't agree with what they do. But to be personal and

:42:48.:42:53.

threatening, that's two different things. Having an opinion on someone

:42:54.:42:58.

and watching a show and thinking, I'm not keen on that person, and

:42:59.:43:01.

writing that you want bad things to happen to them and their family,

:43:02.:43:04.

that is not an opinion. There is a massive difference. It's right for

:43:05.:43:13.

people to be pulled up where did they do this. Is it right for

:43:14.:43:18.

someone like you to say -- to go online and turn it back on them? I

:43:19.:43:25.

choose not to engage in it. I think a lot as well with people online,

:43:26.:43:29.

especially keyboard warriors were reality TV is concerned, they want

:43:30.:43:33.

to engage you. They feel they know you because they have watched you

:43:34.:43:36.

for an hour each day. What they would like is a reply. I'm not going

:43:37.:43:42.

to use precious energy in a day to do that with someone who has chosen

:43:43.:43:46.

to write into one of my social media accounts and give them the platform.

:43:47.:43:50.

After today with the CBS saying that they want part of the thing going

:43:51.:43:56.

forward is for people to feel emboldened to report online abuse,

:43:57.:43:59.

if it is appropriate, does it make you feel differently about it? Yes,

:44:00.:44:04.

I think it needs to come to a point, were speaking to other people who

:44:05.:44:08.

have been in a situation like me, we are normalising it. Where are all

:44:09.:44:14.

just acting like it is normal. That is their problem. When it happens,

:44:15.:44:19.

you need somebody you could speak to and you don't feel you are

:44:20.:44:22.

overreacting. That there is a number you can call and it can be dealt

:44:23.:44:26.

with in an appropriate way. And you feel like that is your lifetime, as

:44:27.:44:33.

such. I have had this message, what should I do? Somebody can advise

:44:34.:44:37.

you. Do people stop when you ignore them? Yeah, on the whole. When I was

:44:38.:44:43.

in the show, when I was in the villa, it was relentless towards my

:44:44.:44:48.

family and friends. It was terrible for them because they took the

:44:49.:44:51.

burden of it. I was ignorant of it. They didn't stop. We had to block

:44:52.:44:59.

people and delete accounts. When I came out of the show I am a real

:45:00.:45:04.

person. It did massively taper off. People can see, she is a normal

:45:05.:45:07.

girl, she was on the show. It has got a lot less. But for them it was

:45:08.:45:11.

terrible. An interesting point about Olivia

:45:12.:45:17.

saying people have the distinction, where she is on television and not a

:45:18.:45:21.

real person. You have experienced something completely different to

:45:22.:45:25.

where people are just rude to you face-to-face. Do you ever reported?

:45:26.:45:32.

No, I am sad to say I don't. Both online and offline, it is something

:45:33.:45:38.

we believe we are supposed to learn to adapt to, something that we are

:45:39.:45:44.

supposed to grow a thick skin around and except. And I think everyone on

:45:45.:45:49.

this show is absolutely right, that actually we don't have to accept it.

:45:50.:45:53.

There is the option for us to complain about it and to get some

:45:54.:45:59.

justice behind it. And I think a big part of the reason why people

:46:00.:46:02.

experience a difference in real life to online is because these people

:46:03.:46:08.

are emboldened behind a screen, they feel protected, they feel anonymous.

:46:09.:46:14.

Even though I have a face-to-face abuse, there were incidences where

:46:15.:46:18.

people were shouting out of cars is the equivalent, driving away,

:46:19.:46:22.

whereas I am walking on the street, so I am never going to know who that

:46:23.:46:26.

person was, they are gone within a few seconds. So I think it is

:46:27.:46:32.

absolutely important, absolutely. Sheila, Olivia, Paul, thank you for

:46:33.:46:38.

joining us, led us know your thoughts on the conversation, the

:46:39.:46:44.

usual ways of getting in touch. Coming up, arthritis.

:46:45.:46:56.

Ten million people in the UK suffer from it,

:46:57.:46:58.

including young people and children, but campaigners say it is being

:46:59.:47:00.

ignored as a major health issue and costing the NHS billions.

:47:01.:47:03.

Sir Mo Farah has won his last track race on home soil

:47:04.:47:06.

in the 3,000m at the Diamond League meeting in Birmingham.

:47:07.:47:10.

It has been a successful final month for Sir Mo.

:47:11.:47:34.

First day, I went in and everybody was just sort of speaking

:47:35.:47:41.

a different language, I found that really

:47:42.:47:43.

But I got my cousins going to the same school as me,

:47:44.:47:47.

but everything that I would tell in Somalian, it was just like,

:47:48.:47:50.

If it wasn't for my PE teacher, who spotted me in the school,

:47:51.:47:54.

I don't think I would be in this position.

:47:55.:47:57.

What motivates me is to try and do the country proud.

:47:58.:48:06.

Now I just want to do the best and, you know, continue winning.

:48:07.:48:11.

And this is the sight that everybody has come to see.

:48:12.:48:14.

The final win for Mo Farah in Britain!

:48:15.:48:31.

It's important you have the right people in your life.

:48:32.:48:35.

And I think that's what it is, very important.

:48:36.:48:37.

The people that have the best interest for you.

:48:38.:48:44.

When I run for my country, I'm very proud.

:48:45.:48:46.

This is where I grew up, this is where I've done everything.

:48:47.:48:49.

And you don't achieve something overnight.

:48:50.:49:02.

You've got to keep continuing and keep working hard.

:49:03.:49:06.

And sometimes, you know, things don't go the way you want,

:49:07.:49:08.

but you've got to come over it and keep going, moving forward.

:49:09.:49:22.

Let's speak now to Alex McGee, who is Mo Farah's first ever coach.

:49:23.:49:26.

He worked with him at the Windsor Slough Eton

:49:27.:49:28.

and Hounslow Athletic Club from the age of 12

:49:29.:49:30.

We also have Goldie Sayers who, as well as being an elected member

:49:31.:49:37.

of UK Athletics newly-formed athletes' commission,

:49:38.:49:39.

she is the recently retired British javelin record holder

:49:40.:49:41.

She has known Mo since they were on the junior athletics

:49:42.:49:46.

And we can also from Limerick, we can talk to John Kiely,

:49:47.:49:52.

who is a sports and exercise scientist and used to be head

:49:53.:49:55.

He worked with Mo between 2005 and 2008 to get him ready for Beijing.

:49:56.:50:04.

Thank you all very much for joining us. He has been an absolute tour de

:50:05.:50:10.

force that people have fallen in love with, hasn't he? Tell us what

:50:11.:50:15.

he was like when he was 12. Any typical 12-year-old child. He used

:50:16.:50:23.

to come training, he didn't speak much English, so it was a lot of

:50:24.:50:27.

hand things to get him to understand, initially, what he had

:50:28.:50:31.

to do. But he was just like any young person I was coaching then.

:50:32.:50:36.

Was there a spark, an obvious talent that you spotted? Not until the

:50:37.:50:46.

first league match at Perivale, I was timekeeping, as I normally did,

:50:47.:50:53.

and he did the 1500... Sorry, when was that? Not long after he came to

:50:54.:51:02.

the club. He was still 12, and he ran 4.44, and I loved that Alan and

:51:03.:51:06.

said, where as that come from? It wasn't until he got on the track

:51:07.:51:12.

that he felt Rob Lee at home, comfortable. 4.4 for at Did he

:51:13.:51:25.

realise how special and was? What did you say to him? Well done, just

:51:26.:51:33.

keep working at it. He was only a young child, my thoughts were you do

:51:34.:51:37.

not try and encourage them to bar, you want them to build up gradually,

:51:38.:51:44.

then tell them. What were you thinking at the time? This is a

:51:45.:51:53.

future British Olympian? No, future good athlete at that time, because

:51:54.:51:57.

obviously he had not done training or anything like that, and it wasn't

:51:58.:52:05.

until his first cross-country race, he got to the English schools, and

:52:06.:52:11.

he may have won it had he not gone the wrong way because he had never

:52:12.:52:15.

done cross-country, and he couldn't understand which way the marshals

:52:16.:52:20.

were telling him to go. So we didn't always win? No, he didn't always

:52:21.:52:26.

win. What did he do when he didn't win? Sulked! Did it renew his focus?

:52:27.:52:34.

They just gradually built up, and as it got into the races, it became

:52:35.:52:40.

evident after a few finals that he got into, through the age groups,

:52:41.:52:45.

that he liked winning. He didn't like losing. That became evident,

:52:46.:52:52.

but much later on. John, you worked with him in 2005, a lot later, to

:52:53.:52:58.

get him ready for Beijing, how important is it, with someone

:52:59.:53:03.

showing great talent, to actually properly channel that talent? It is

:53:04.:53:11.

a complex part with lots of potential pitfalls, and it is a time

:53:12.:53:17.

when lots of promising athletes fall off the radar, really, because of

:53:18.:53:21.

mismanagement, overtraining, injury, any host of problems that might

:53:22.:53:28.

cause them to pack it in. The time that I worked with Mo, he was

:53:29.:53:31.

working with a very group from St Mary's in London, run by a former

:53:32.:53:38.

steeplechase Olympic medallist, really good group, really well

:53:39.:53:47.

managed. I think that Mo at the time wasn't... You know, he was one of a

:53:48.:53:53.

host of good up and coming athletes, but he was not identified as a

:53:54.:53:57.

future world beater. I think what he did have from the get go was he

:53:58.:54:01.

brought some talents to the table that other people didn't have. So if

:54:02.:54:09.

you think of endurance running, it is an event which historic Lee

:54:10.:54:17.

people have tried to quantify with scientific measures. -- which

:54:18.:54:24.

historically. There were lots of athlete at the time around the UK

:54:25.:54:27.

who had better oxygen carrying capabilities than Mo, but what he

:54:28.:54:33.

had in spades was he was an excellent move, excellent

:54:34.:54:39.

coordination, if you showed him a move, he would execute it really

:54:40.:54:44.

well. It is something that we do not normally look for, something that

:54:45.:54:47.

endurance athletes do not normally train for, but he brought that to

:54:48.:54:51.

the party and had it in spades. It properly goes back to a very active

:54:52.:54:55.

youth, played a lot of football, but a very real talent for whatever

:54:56.:55:00.

reason. OK, I want to bring in Goldie, you have known him since you

:55:01.:55:04.

were on the junior athletics team together, how did you see him? He

:55:05.:55:10.

was clearly talented, but all Mo, it is his work ethic that has set him

:55:11.:55:14.

apart, and his will to win as well. To do what he has done, I think most

:55:15.:55:19.

athletes are happy if they have won one world or Olympic title, but he

:55:20.:55:25.

has won 14, so not only his ability but is longevity has been so

:55:26.:55:29.

impressive for me. Impressive over the years, and still impressive with

:55:30.:55:34.

him going out now - widely think he is going out now? The nature of the

:55:35.:55:41.

event he does, the mileage he does, 120 miles a week for well over a

:55:42.:55:46.

decade, I have known him for 20 years, and he was always a

:55:47.:55:49.

long-distance athlete, so not only the physical capability, the mental

:55:50.:55:53.

energy that goes into winning titles, and I think that starts to

:55:54.:55:57.

wane as you get over the age of 34, which he is now. He spoke after

:55:58.:56:02.

winning the medal at the World Athletics Championships about the

:56:03.:56:08.

impact on him of the Salazar allegations, it was clear that it

:56:09.:56:13.

has had an impact on him, what is your, knowing the man, what is your

:56:14.:56:17.

understanding of that? It absolutely must have done, and we have to

:56:18.:56:21.

remember this is an allegation against his coach, not against him,

:56:22.:56:26.

and it is going to have an impact on his career, and what he doesn't want

:56:27.:56:31.

it to do is have an in impact on his legacy and all the thousands of kids

:56:32.:56:35.

he has inspired, and the other team members as well. We have to remember

:56:36.:56:39.

what he has done, not only for himself and his family, but the

:56:40.:56:43.

sport in the UK as well. How would you define his legacy? One-off, if

:56:44.:56:49.

not our greatest athlete of all time, truly an inspiration to kids

:56:50.:56:54.

and also distance runners in this country, because ten or 15 years

:56:55.:56:57.

ago, if you said we have an Olympic champion in long-distance evidence,

:56:58.:57:02.

against the Kenyans, Ethiopians, most people would have laughed, and

:57:03.:57:07.

Mo has made it possible for the next generation. What do you think going

:57:08.:57:12.

forward, John, is he going to be able to be at the top of the

:57:13.:57:16.

marathon world, which is where he is going? I think he certainly has all

:57:17.:57:23.

the tools to do that, but the physical tools and the psychological

:57:24.:57:29.

tools in terms of the knows what it takes, he knows what it takes to,

:57:30.:57:33.

you know, conduct those endless miles of routine training away from

:57:34.:57:39.

the camera. He is well used to that, and as Goldie alluded to, it is

:57:40.:57:45.

difficult to predict in terms of how much wear and tear there already is

:57:46.:57:49.

in the system, and when it will actually start to have a negative

:57:50.:57:53.

effect on performance, and that is something that nobody can predict. I

:57:54.:57:58.

think, to date, one of the great things with Mo is he is both

:57:59.:58:01.

physically and psychologically robust and resilient. Hopefully,

:58:02.:58:05.

that resilience psychologically, emotionally, physically will

:58:06.:58:10.

continue. If it does, then I can't see why he can't have an excellent

:58:11.:58:13.

marathon career. I guess whether or not he goes an to the heights that

:58:14.:58:19.

he did on the track remains to be seen. Alex, just looking at these

:58:20.:58:26.

great pictures of Mo Farah, the absolute joy on his face when he

:58:27.:58:31.

achieves that great success, everybody watching at home feels

:58:32.:58:36.

pride. As someone who has played a part in shaping him into the great

:58:37.:58:39.

athlete that he became, how do you feel when you watch them? Pride?

:58:40.:58:45.

Just as when he was younger, you know, it did go over onto his

:58:46.:58:52.

colleagues, you know, the other athletes he ran with. I mean, I

:58:53.:58:57.

think there was one stage when he had to move on, and I wasn't sure,

:58:58.:59:02.

he was going to go and train with someone else, people who I coached

:59:03.:59:09.

at the same time as well, and there was that age gap. But he looked up

:59:10.:59:14.

to them, and he really looked up to Sam a lot. So it was probably later

:59:15.:59:20.

on, we used to go out to bushy park, the Kenyans would-be there, and I

:59:21.:59:27.

would say, Manors, don't go so fast, you are not raising anybody, but he

:59:28.:59:32.

was, he was racing the Kenyans. Lovely to talk to you all, thank you

:59:33.:59:40.

very much, Alex, Goldie, John. Let us know what you think of that great

:59:41.:59:44.

career. Simon King has the weather details.

:59:45.:59:46.

where people are just rude to you face-to-face. Do you ever reported?

:59:47.:59:50.

A brief warm spell heading our way in the next couple of days. This

:59:51.:59:56.

morning we'll start of misty and murky. This is the scene in Kent.

:59:57.:00:02.

Lots of cloud. Further east, there are some sunny spells. Not too bad

:00:03.:00:09.

in Hartlepool. Sunshine here. In the north-east, you will keep that

:00:10.:00:13.

sunshine into the late afternoon. Elsewhere, it is turning quite

:00:14.:00:17.

cloudy. This warm front is moving north. Behind it, we have warmer,

:00:18.:00:23.

tropical air from the south. It will feel quite humid in parts of the UK.

:00:24.:00:27.

That will bring outbreaks of rain in the north. They should be some

:00:28.:00:31.

breaks in the cloud developing in the South. Where you get sunshine,

:00:32.:00:37.

temperatures probably higher than these temperatures suggest. For the

:00:38.:00:41.

North Midlands, North West England, North Wales, the Isle of Man,

:00:42.:00:45.

Northern Ireland, heavy rain expected. But in north-eastern

:00:46.:00:51.

Scotland, holding onto the sunny spells with temperatures 16 to 18.

:00:52.:00:58.

There is the great American eclipse this evening. In the UK we may

:00:59.:01:04.

actually see a partial eclipse around about eight o'clock. Look to

:01:05.:01:10.

the bottom left-hand corner of the sun, safely, and you will see the

:01:11.:01:15.

Moon passing about 10% of the surface. But for this evening it is

:01:16.:01:19.

cloudy. It will stay cloudy into the early hours of Tuesday. Quite a

:01:20.:01:25.

humid night. Temperatures 16 degrees. Further rain in the north.

:01:26.:01:32.

The warm front has shown... More of us in this warm sector, this

:01:33.:01:36.

tropical air mass. Warmer from any. Still cloudy skies, outbreaks of

:01:37.:01:41.

rain, particularly in Northern Ireland and Western Scotland.

:01:42.:01:45.

Thundery through Tuesday afternoon. Temperatures 22 to 24 degrees. 15 to

:01:46.:01:54.

17 in Scotland. This warm air will be with us for the next few days but

:01:55.:01:58.

then that will gradually move away as we get to midweek. From

:01:59.:02:02.

Wednesday, fresher conditions from the West. By Thursday, all of us out

:02:03.:02:09.

of those fresher conditions. Temperatures dropping. It will stay

:02:10.:02:14.

fairly unsettled. Outbreaks of rain. Showers on Thursday with sunny

:02:15.:02:16.

spells. I will see you later on.

:02:17.:02:18.

Hello, it's Monday, it's ten o'clock.

:02:19.:02:20.

I'm Joanna Gosling welcome to the programme.

:02:21.:02:25.

Cracking down on online abuse. Now it will be treated the same as any

:02:26.:02:33.

other hate crime. Love Island's Olivia says the relentless abuse

:02:34.:02:38.

people put up which should not be tolerated. I am opinionated myself

:02:39.:02:45.

but there is a line between being opinionated and being abusive. You

:02:46.:02:49.

can say you don't agree with people. Put to be personal allowance

:02:50.:02:52.

threatening, that's two different things. You can see the full

:02:53.:02:56.

interview on our programme page online. We investigate the charity

:02:57.:03:03.

scammers taking advantage of people's desire to help those in

:03:04.:03:04.

need. Was that a one-off

:03:05.:03:06.

or more widespread? I would say about 80%

:03:07.:03:09.

of us were doing it. We will hear from the charity

:03:10.:03:20.

regulator and a woman whose charity to raise funds for her son's

:03:21.:03:26.

cerebral palsy was scammed. This is Vicky, hours before she was

:03:27.:03:28.

diagnosed with stage for a long cancer. Doctors had repeatedly told

:03:29.:03:34.

her her symptoms were as Ma. She will give her first TV interview in

:03:35.:03:36.

about 45 minutes. Now let's join Matthew for a summary

:03:37.:03:44.

of the news. Hate crimes committed online should

:03:45.:03:47.

be pursued as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

:03:48.:03:50.

according to new guidelines for prosecutors

:03:51.:03:52.

in England and Wales. The Crown Prosecution Service

:03:53.:03:56.

says it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

:03:57.:04:00.

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

:04:01.:04:03.

in Charlottesville in the US. The move is part of a wider review

:04:04.:04:10.

of such crimes by the CPS. We know this is a crime

:04:11.:04:15.

that's underreported. Sometimes people feel that they just

:04:16.:04:16.

have to sort of put up with it, it's something that happens

:04:17.:04:19.

to them because they're disabled, because they are gay, because

:04:20.:04:22.

they're a particular religion. So we're really

:04:23.:04:24.

encouraging people to think about the behaviours that

:04:25.:04:28.

are shown to them and to think about reporting things which

:04:29.:04:31.

will be a hate crime. Reality TV star Olivia Attwood said

:04:32.:04:46.

she has been a victim of online abuse, but she says celebrities are

:04:47.:04:50.

almost expected to tolerate hateful comments as a result of being in the

:04:51.:04:53.

public eye. When I was in the show a lot of the

:04:54.:04:57.

abuse was directed at my family because I was in the bubble of Love

:04:58.:05:02.

Island. Since I came out, it has all been online. A lot of it I couldn't

:05:03.:05:07.

repeat on breakfast television. Can you give us a censored version? It

:05:08.:05:12.

is pretty severe. Death threats. People making personal comments.

:05:13.:05:20.

Death threats? How many? A significant amount. What do they

:05:21.:05:23.

say? Things like, you should die. The US navy says ten of its sailors

:05:24.:05:26.

are missing and five have been injured after one of its warships

:05:27.:05:29.

collided with an oil tanker off It's the second serious collision

:05:30.:05:33.

involving an American President Trump has said his

:05:34.:05:35.

thoughts and prayers Spanish police are investigating

:05:36.:05:38.

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain, and assaults

:05:39.:05:44.

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe the Iman,

:05:45.:05:46.

Abdelbaki Es Satty, may have radicalised younger members

:05:47.:05:53.

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

:05:54.:05:55.

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

:05:56.:05:59.

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

:06:00.:06:01.

and a metro station in the city, More people will die from fires

:06:02.:06:04.

started by faulty white goods, if ministers do not act

:06:05.:06:15.

to implement safety guidelines. That's according to

:06:16.:06:17.

the London Fire Brigade, They've sent a letter

:06:18.:06:19.

to Theresa May in response to the Grenfell Tower fire,

:06:20.:06:24.

which it's thought was started It warns some products

:06:25.:06:26.

are still being sold Big Ben will ring out today,

:06:27.:06:31.

for what could be the last time in four years, as the Houses

:06:32.:06:44.

of Parliament undergo The bells will be muted

:06:45.:06:46.

for the longest period Some MPs have criticised the plan,

:06:47.:06:50.

saying the bell's chimes are an important part

:06:51.:06:53.

of national life. You can listen to those final bongs

:06:54.:07:04.

live at midday. Here's a very good example

:07:05.:07:08.

of why not to use a mobile Look what happened when a sinkhole

:07:09.:07:11.

opened up at this crossing A scooter driver who was on his

:07:12.:07:14.

mobile didn't realise - Don't worry though, luckily

:07:15.:07:21.

he walked away unharmed. That is a summary of the latest BBC

:07:22.:07:34.

News. More at half past ten. Those pictures are unbelievable.

:07:35.:07:38.

Still to come, the hunt for the driver who killed 13 people in

:07:39.:07:41.

Barcelona last week has been extended across Europe. Spanish

:07:42.:07:47.

officials say. We will have latest. We also have more on a warning from

:07:48.:07:52.

London Fire Brigade, the mayor of London and safety groups that more

:07:53.:07:56.

people will die from fires started by faulty white goods, if the

:07:57.:07:59.

government doesn't implement guidelines made more than a year

:08:00.:08:02.

ago. Get in touch throughout the morning. Now the sport.

:08:03.:08:14.

Chelsea manager Antonio Conte is warning top number of other clubs

:08:15.:08:18.

will relish the atmosphere at Wembley. Marcos Alonso scored twice

:08:19.:08:23.

as the blues beat Spurs 2-1 in their first league game at the National

:08:24.:08:28.

Stadium. Spurs have won on the two of the 11 games they have played at

:08:29.:08:33.

Wembley since it reopened in 2007. Conte says the atmosphere is great

:08:34.:08:37.

for visiting teams. But the Tottenham manager insists his

:08:38.:08:40.

players can cope. It doesn't affect me. But I understand that we need to

:08:41.:08:51.

talk. Today I think the Wembley effect is not the reason, because we

:08:52.:08:58.

lose the game. I think the team played really well. It is not fair

:08:59.:09:04.

to blame again Wembley, because Wembley is, for me, one of the best

:09:05.:09:11.

places in the world, if not the best place to play football.

:09:12.:09:16.

There was a minute's silence before Barcelona's match against Real Betis

:09:17.:09:19.

last night, the first match since the terror attacks last week.

:09:20.:09:24.

Players wore shirts with Barcelona on the back. They won the match 2-0.

:09:25.:09:35.

Mo Farah has won his last ever track race in Britain with victory in the

:09:36.:09:39.

men's 3000 metres at the Birmingham Diamond League meeting. He took the

:09:40.:09:48.

gold in the 10,000 metres at the London World Championships, adding

:09:49.:09:54.

to the titles he holds. His last track race will be next week in

:09:55.:09:57.

Zurich after that he is switching to road racing.

:09:58.:10:00.

What you forget as an athlete, it becomes something of a hobby, it

:10:01.:10:06.

becomes a job. I love what I do. It is part of it. It can get real hard

:10:07.:10:12.

when you have so much pressure. You can't go anywhere. Going to the road

:10:13.:10:18.

will be a completely new game, a new mind.

:10:19.:10:21.

I'm excited. Great Britain have won the team gold medal at the European

:10:22.:10:25.

eventing Championships in Poland. Nicola Wilson took individual

:10:26.:10:30.

bronze, she could afford two penalties to afford the team gold

:10:31.:10:34.

but managed a perfect run. Germany claimed team silver, with Sweden

:10:35.:10:39.

finishing third. The USA have won the Solheim Cup after beating Europe

:10:40.:10:48.

in Iowa. The Americans had taken a commanding five point lead into the

:10:49.:10:54.

final day's singles. It proved too much, despite a spirited European

:10:55.:10:59.

performance. The United States have now won five out of the last seven

:11:00.:11:05.

competitions. And finally, Zlatan Ibrahimovic has been showing off

:11:06.:11:09.

just how strong his knee is. Almost strong enough to return to football.

:11:10.:11:13.

He has posted a video of himself kicking a punching bag. He posted,

:11:14.:11:23.

which need? He remains out of contract and without a club. He is

:11:24.:11:28.

still wanted by Manchester United if he can return to full fitness. That

:11:29.:11:32.

is all from me for now. More at 10:30am.

:11:33.:11:37.

Some breaking news out of Marseille in France. We are just hearing from

:11:38.:11:44.

the Reuters news agency that at least one person is dead and one

:11:45.:11:50.

injured in Marseille after a car has crashed into two bus shelters. A

:11:51.:11:54.

police source has said it is not clear if the incident was an

:11:55.:12:03.

accident or deliberate. They are advising that the public avoid the

:12:04.:12:07.

area. It has happened in the old Port district of Marseille. That is

:12:08.:12:11.

all that we have at the moment. These early reports coming in from

:12:12.:12:17.

the Reuters news agency of an accident in Marseille. One person

:12:18.:12:21.

dead and one person injured after a crash in Marseille. It is not clear

:12:22.:12:26.

if the incident was an accident or deliberate. We will stay across

:12:27.:12:27.

those reports and keep you updated. An investigation by the Victoria

:12:28.:12:29.

Derbyshire programme has found scammers are increasingly taking

:12:30.:12:31.

advantage of the good will of people looking to make donations to help

:12:32.:12:34.

in the aftermath of major tragedies. The UK's fraud reporting centre,

:12:35.:12:39.

Action Fraud, has shown us examples of fake fund-raising websites set up

:12:40.:12:42.

in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire that they've

:12:43.:12:44.

managed to take down. But we've also found

:12:45.:12:48.

examples of organisations which look like charities

:12:49.:12:50.

but aren't raising So how sure are you that your

:12:51.:12:52.

donated cash is going With more than 200,000 registered

:12:53.:12:56.

charities in the UK, you're not going to struggle to find

:12:57.:13:05.

a good cause to donate your Last year, the British

:13:06.:13:08.

public donated around So, how can we be sure

:13:09.:13:14.

that the money that we give on the street or online is actually

:13:15.:13:20.

going to the causes We're buying mobility scooters

:13:21.:13:22.

for disabled adults and children. Superman here is Salim

:13:23.:13:26.

Sayed, or Super Si. He is raising money for something

:13:27.:13:29.

called The Happiness Foundation, which claims it buys mobility

:13:30.:13:32.

scooters for local people. That sounds great, but it

:13:33.:13:36.

might not be the case. This Happiness Foundation is not

:13:37.:13:39.

a registered company or charity. Fundraising like this is not

:13:40.:13:42.

illegal, but it makes it very hard to check that they do

:13:43.:13:45.

what they claim. Online, a number of people have

:13:46.:13:48.

raised concerns about this There was two complaints

:13:49.:13:51.

in 2014 on the Happiness And this has been a problem

:13:52.:13:58.

for a not-for-profit company also We were presenting to

:13:59.:14:01.

football's governing bodies, But I felt embarrassed

:14:02.:14:07.

because I knew that if they did a search, perhaps that

:14:08.:14:15.

would come up. We tried to talk to Salim Sayed, but

:14:16.:14:17.

he hasn't responded to our messages. We did manage to track down

:14:18.:14:21.

one of the men behind the Happiness Foundation,

:14:22.:14:24.

Marcus Leavsley. He told us they weren't

:14:25.:14:26.

pretending to be Kath Temple's Happiness Foundation,

:14:27.:14:29.

and they do provide mobility scooters for disabled people -

:14:30.:14:32.

though he wouldn't show us any Hello, is Marcus Leavsley

:14:33.:14:35.

around, please? I've spoken to a man who admits

:14:36.:14:38.

he used to steal money He worked for companies that raised

:14:39.:14:53.

money for Armed Forces charities through bucket collections

:14:54.:14:59.

and competition ticket sales. But a big chunk of the cash ended up

:15:00.:15:03.

in his and his colleagues' pockets. Was that a one-off,

:15:04.:15:08.

or was this more widespread? I would say a good 80%

:15:09.:15:13.

of us were doing it. Did you not feel that

:15:14.:15:16.

you were taking advantage Solicitor Robert Craig

:15:17.:15:19.

is a specialist in charity law. He says the public need to take

:15:20.:15:25.

a careful look before donating I don't think you can expect

:15:26.:15:28.

the police to do much more than deal It's to do with, what's the public

:15:29.:15:35.

interest in pursuing it? And how likely are they

:15:36.:15:39.

to get a conviction? There were more than 800 reports

:15:40.:15:44.

to Action Fraud about suspected Some of them were trying to profit

:15:45.:15:48.

from recent disasters. A very recent example,

:15:49.:15:53.

and a very tragic example, would be websites and Just Giving

:15:54.:15:55.

pages being set up in support We set up a process where we could

:15:56.:15:58.

monitor any new websites that were being set up with a link

:15:59.:16:05.

to Grenfell Tower. On the first day we set up

:16:06.:16:08.

the process, one that we did establish was a fraudulent website,

:16:09.:16:12.

we managed to get that website taken down on the same day

:16:13.:16:14.

and the bank account blocked. So how do we avoid being

:16:15.:16:17.

duped by fake charities? The regulator, the Charity

:16:18.:16:19.

Commission, has this advice. Check that street fundraisers

:16:20.:16:22.

have a charity registration number. That they are happy to give further

:16:23.:16:26.

information when asked. And when donating online,

:16:27.:16:29.

avoid requests to give cash via money transfer companies.

:16:30.:16:31.

This is a common scam. The fast majority of

:16:32.:16:36.

fundraising is legitimate. But we found grey areas where

:16:37.:16:38.

it's all but impossible And there are scammers that

:16:39.:16:40.

are prepared to go to ever more sophisticated lengths to snatch

:16:41.:16:46.

money from those who most need it. With authorities' resources

:16:47.:16:49.

stretched, it increasingly falls to us to make sure that our cash

:16:50.:16:51.

is going where we want it to. Let's speak now to Sarah Atkinson

:16:52.:16:59.

from the regulator, the Charity Commission,

:17:00.:17:01.

Daniel Fluskey, from the Institute of Fundraising,

:17:02.:17:05.

which represents fundraisers, and Aline Garner, who set up

:17:06.:17:08.

a charity to help raise funds This Sarah will feel sick and that

:17:09.:17:23.

they are being targeted by scammers were never giving money. One of the

:17:24.:17:27.

brilliant things about this country is that people give generously when

:17:28.:17:32.

something happens, and it is awful when people exploit that goodwill

:17:33.:17:37.

for the wrong cause, but there are some simple checks that we encourage

:17:38.:17:40.

people to make to make sure they are giving to a genuine charity. How

:17:41.:17:46.

many scammers do you think might be out there? Action fraud have talked

:17:47.:17:53.

about 800 reports, and we think that is significant underreporting. A lot

:17:54.:17:57.

of people would not reported, but we encourage people, if you think you

:17:58.:18:01.

have avoided being the victim or you are a victim of fraud, please report

:18:02.:18:06.

it, it helps us track these people down. What is the oversight for

:18:07.:18:12.

unregistered charities? Does it come down to just people reporting? If an

:18:13.:18:16.

organisation is not a registered charity, but it is fundraising for

:18:17.:18:20.

good causes, there is not necessarily anything wrong with

:18:21.:18:24.

that, there can be good reasons why people would want to fundraiser

:18:25.:18:27.

outside the regulated environment, but you do not have the protection

:18:28.:18:31.

of registration, so people should still ask questions, be confident

:18:32.:18:35.

that you know where the money is going, and if someone cannot answer

:18:36.:18:39.

your questions or seems evasive, it is natural to feel uncomfortable and

:18:40.:18:43.

think, in these cases, I don't want to give there. As we are hearing, it

:18:44.:18:51.

is very easy for underage, and obviously it is a really important

:18:52.:18:58.

thing. -- it is very easy for people to fund raise. But it is also easy

:18:59.:19:03.

to exploit people's goodwill, so what is the best way to crack down

:19:04.:19:08.

on that? As Sarah said, the public should be on the lookout, and if you

:19:09.:19:14.

are thinking about donating to a charity, and most especially where

:19:15.:19:18.

there are big issues happening, emergencies or tragedies, people

:19:19.:19:22.

want to give, and we want to encourage that, but the more that

:19:23.:19:25.

people can have a look to check that it is going to a genuine cause, look

:19:26.:19:31.

for the charity number, to see if it is late, and if it is on the street,

:19:32.:19:37.

ask questions, see their ID badge, all those things will help people be

:19:38.:19:40.

more assurance that the money is going to a genuine cause. It means

:19:41.:19:45.

we all have to be more cynical, which is not nice, is it? You do not

:19:46.:19:52.

have to be cynical, you should always be able to ask questions, and

:19:53.:19:58.

charities should be open, upfront about how they raise funds. Make

:19:59.:20:01.

sure that you think it is going to a genuine cause, and then you can give

:20:02.:20:06.

safely and with confidence. Do think it is impacting on people actually

:20:07.:20:19.

giving? I do not think it is in relation to giving, the British

:20:20.:20:22.

public give about ?10 million every year. That is not to say that any

:20:23.:20:26.

instance of fraud is not important, of course it is, but this country is

:20:27.:20:31.

generous and people do want to support good causes. Linda has got

:20:32.:20:35.

in touch to say there are so many dishonest people around that I go to

:20:36.:20:39.

my local charity shops with goods and cash, I know they are getting my

:20:40.:20:43.

donations. Ray has e-mailed to say that people who carry out street

:20:44.:20:47.

collections should display an authorisation from the charity

:20:48.:20:53.

concerned. And on Twitter, I often get back through my door is asking

:20:54.:20:57.

for donations to be left outside, many I do not recognise as

:20:58.:21:01.

charities. I see what you are both saying as being alert, and we heard

:21:02.:21:05.

that in our report, ask questions, ask what they are raising the money

:21:06.:21:09.

for, how much is going to the charity. And also when they got a

:21:10.:21:15.

registered charity number. But in the end, is it simpler and easier

:21:16.:21:19.

for people not to give on the street? What do you think? It is a

:21:20.:21:23.

combination of your head and your heart, some really good advice for

:21:24.:21:29.

people giving to charities that they know, who are picking sensible

:21:30.:21:33.

routes to give, a way to ensure you are supporting a cause you love but

:21:34.:21:38.

also making sure you are not being exploited and your generosity is

:21:39.:21:41.

having the impact you want. We heard in our report about a scam that

:21:42.:21:48.

involved ?2 out of every ?10 going to a charity - is there a minimum

:21:49.:21:53.

that is charities should receive? Not in law, the rules are that you

:21:54.:21:57.

need to disclose how much you're giving, so if someone approaches you

:21:58.:22:01.

on the street and cannot answer questions or is evasive about how

:22:02.:22:05.

much they are getting as the fundraiser, that is a warning. They

:22:06.:22:12.

should be able to tell you. If it is in the small print and somebody

:22:13.:22:16.

doesn't ask, there is nothing wrong with it, then? It is perfectly legal

:22:17.:22:21.

for a professional fundraising organisation to take some money for

:22:22.:22:25.

its share. Not every charity works in that way, and if it is something

:22:26.:22:33.

you feel strongly about, choose charities that do not work in that

:22:34.:22:39.

way. There is no set minimum, but hearing 20% going to the agency,

:22:40.:22:43.

rather than to the charity, that wouldn't be acceptable. What should

:22:44.:22:53.

a rule of thumb the? I do not think we can said they limit, because

:22:54.:22:57.

different campaigns work in different ways, but a general rule

:22:58.:23:05.

would probably be around 70-80%, if not higher, would go straight

:23:06.:23:07.

through to the charity. The important thing is that every

:23:08.:23:11.

charity, when you are working with an agency, you agree upfront what

:23:12.:23:16.

the cost is going to be, you make a decision in the best interests of

:23:17.:23:21.

the charity, and I would really be concerned, charities were making

:23:22.:23:24.

decisions that said that only 20% should come through to us. I think

:23:25.:23:28.

that is where Sarah and her team would get involved and check the

:23:29.:23:32.

charity was being run properly, if they were making that kind of

:23:33.:23:37.

decision. Sarah, Daniel, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

:23:38.:23:41.

Still to come, the London Fire Brigade, the city's mayor,

:23:42.:23:45.

and safety groups have warned more people will die from fires started

:23:46.:23:48.

by faulty white goods if ministers do not act to implement safety

:23:49.:23:51.

We will talk to a woman who was made homeless after a fire in a tower

:23:52.:23:57.

block last year. I just want to bring you the latest

:23:58.:24:02.

on the breaking news out of Marseille, where we have been

:24:03.:24:06.

hearing from police that a car has given into two bus stops, one person

:24:07.:24:10.

killed, one person injured. The police are saying that they don't

:24:11.:24:18.

know at this stage accident or intentional, but the suspected

:24:19.:24:22.

driver has been arrested. So that incident still ongoing, it happened

:24:23.:24:27.

in the old port area of Marseille, and police are saying to avoid the

:24:28.:24:31.

area. We will stay across those reports and keep you updated.

:24:32.:24:34.

The manhunt for the driver of the Barcelona van attack which killed 13

:24:35.:24:40.

people and injured dozens more has been extended across Europe,

:24:41.:24:44.

officials in Spain have revealed this morning. 22-year-old Younes

:24:45.:24:48.

Abouyaaqoub has still not been found. It is feared he may have fled

:24:49.:24:52.

the country and slipped across the border into France. He was among 12

:24:53.:24:57.

extremists that Spanish police said had been planning attacks for around

:24:58.:25:02.

six months. Meanwhile, the Spanish newspaper El Pais has released

:25:03.:25:06.

stills from CCTV showing what is believed to be Younes Abouyaaqoub

:25:07.:25:09.

fleeing the scene on foot following the attack in Barcelona's Las

:25:10.:25:13.

Ramblas. Police say they are investigating the possibility that,

:25:14.:25:16.

90 minutes later, he stabbed and killed a Spanish man and stole his

:25:17.:25:24.

car. Yesterday it was revealed that a seven-year-old British Australian

:25:25.:25:28.

boy, Julian Cadman, was among the victims who died in the attacks in

:25:29.:25:30.

Barcelona and Campbells. Let's speak to Dr Shiraz Maher,

:25:31.:25:34.

who is an expert on radicalisation from King's College London,

:25:35.:25:37.

and Will Geddes, who is an expert

:25:38.:25:39.

on counter terrorism. Thank you both for coming in. The

:25:40.:25:54.

focus now is on a man who is an imam who was working in a town where the

:25:55.:26:04.

attackers were based. Tell us more about him, what is known about him?

:26:05.:26:08.

Well, we are learning a lot more about him, he has travelled to

:26:09.:26:14.

Belgium and been involved in network there, and he is known to have a

:26:15.:26:17.

number of radical connections down in Spain, he spent time in prison as

:26:18.:26:22.

well, and it is believed he had connections to the men who carried

:26:23.:26:29.

out the 2004 Madrid bombings in the name of Al-Qaeda. So it seems he has

:26:30.:26:32.

a pattern of associations with radical networks, and it is believed

:26:33.:26:37.

he was involved in a bomb-making factory where an explosion went off

:26:38.:26:43.

prematurely. Looking back over what he is a spec to have been involved

:26:44.:26:48.

in, dating back to Madrid 2004, was he under surveillance? You would

:26:49.:26:53.

have been on the radar at some point in time. The Madrid bombings in

:26:54.:26:59.

2004, a lot of time has passed since then, so it is not clear if he was a

:27:00.:27:04.

person of injustice to the Spanish, Belgian French authorities, but it

:27:05.:27:07.

does demonstrate the scale of the problem that Europe as a whole is

:27:08.:27:12.

facing now. -- a person of interest. Isis has an least an unprecedented

:27:13.:27:18.

wave of terrorist attacks across the continent, overwhelming agencies in

:27:19.:27:20.

this country and on the continent. So the challenge and the scale of

:27:21.:27:27.

what is facing us right now is huge. Whenever something happens and we

:27:28.:27:31.

sort of look at the potential signposts, people involved, should

:27:32.:27:35.

they have been under better surveillance, what are your thoughts

:27:36.:27:40.

now with this as more emerges about the characters involved? Well, the

:27:41.:27:44.

interesting part is, in the wake of any kind of incident, is going to be

:27:45.:27:49.

gathering up the various morsels of intelligence and information about

:27:50.:27:52.

those that were connected, where they got their materials from, how

:27:53.:27:57.

they considered of those. So for example, the explosion just before

:27:58.:28:00.

the attack on Las Ramblas, they are looking at the component parts,

:28:01.:28:04.

there are 120 but then canisters that had been amassed. There was

:28:05.:28:11.

also some explosive, incredibly fragile, as they found out for

:28:12.:28:14.

themselves, and explosive component that was used in Paris and Belgium

:28:15.:28:19.

before. And they have also managed to apprehend the bomb maker, who

:28:20.:28:25.

will be a very valuable source of intelligence in terms of the levels

:28:26.:28:29.

of preparation, and also the wider network involved potentially. They

:28:30.:28:33.

believe this attack was planned for six months with a cell of 12. As you

:28:34.:28:41.

say, there was the explosion in what appeared to be a bomb factory. What

:28:42.:28:45.

you think about the level of surveillance there was and whether

:28:46.:28:50.

mistakes have been made? Again, because of the sheer number of

:28:51.:28:54.

suspects that have to be monitored, the problem is that people will drop

:28:55.:28:58.

off the priority list of the intelligence agencies because they

:28:59.:29:00.

only have finite resource to monitor them. If we look at Abdelbaki Es

:29:01.:29:07.

Satty, for example, although he had cross contamination, if you like,

:29:08.:29:11.

with one of the Madrid bombers five years ago, when he was imprisoned

:29:12.:29:19.

for smuggling crashes to Spain from Morocco, he was also connected to an

:29:20.:29:22.

operation run by Spanish intelligence in Barcelona of those

:29:23.:29:26.

that were propagating radicalisation materials. So he was very much on

:29:27.:29:31.

the peripherals. We have seen time and again that it is not necessarily

:29:32.:29:35.

the key priority targets but those on the outskirts who are moving up

:29:36.:29:40.

the ranks. In terms of who is getting sucked in, those involved in

:29:41.:29:46.

this attack are all young - what does that say about the way

:29:47.:29:49.

radicalisation is happening, who is vulnerable and why?

:29:50.:29:53.

We tend to find lots of young people drawn to these causes. They become

:29:54.:30:01.

involved in terrorist activity are travelling to Syria or Iraq. One of

:30:02.:30:08.

the interesting things to look at is how Isis has understood millennials.

:30:09.:30:11.

It understands how to connect with them. These are people who are

:30:12.:30:19.

thinking in 140 characters, not 140 pages. Al-Qaeda would release long

:30:20.:30:24.

books trying to recruit people. What Isis does is it produces a very

:30:25.:30:29.

binary, simplistic choice, which appeals to emotion, which naturally

:30:30.:30:32.

resonate with young people looking for a panacea, looking for a quick

:30:33.:30:36.

fix, looking utopia. Isis offer than that. Thank you very

:30:37.:30:43.

much. Still to come, 10 million people in the UK suffer from

:30:44.:30:47.

arthritis, including young people and children. But campaigners say it

:30:48.:30:50.

is being ignored as a major health issue and costing the NHS billions.

:30:51.:30:57.

And we talk to this woman, diagnosed with lung cancer last week. She has

:30:58.:31:02.

shared this photograph of herself taken hours before her devastating

:31:03.:31:06.

diagnosis, explaining when you have cancer you will not necessarily

:31:07.:31:08.

looked ill on the outside. Let's join Matthew for the news.

:31:09.:31:13.

Thank you. At least one person has been killed

:31:14.:31:16.

and one person is injured in the French city of Marseille,

:31:17.:31:24.

after a car crashed Police say the driver

:31:25.:31:26.

has been arrested. But they are not saying whether the

:31:27.:31:37.

incident is being treated as a terror attack or whether it is

:31:38.:31:39.

merely an accident. Spanish police are investigating

:31:40.:31:40.

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain and assaults

:31:41.:31:42.

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe an iman,

:31:43.:31:44.

Abdelbaki Es Satty, may have radicalised younger members

:31:45.:31:49.

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

:31:50.:31:54.

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

:31:55.:31:56.

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

:31:57.:31:58.

and a metro station in the city, which killed 32

:31:59.:32:01.

people in March 2016. The suspect in last week's stabbing

:32:02.:32:08.

attack in Finland that left two people dead and eight injured,

:32:09.:32:11.

was identified in court documents on Monday as 18-year-old

:32:12.:32:15.

Abderrahman Mechkah. Police have previously described

:32:16.:32:21.

the suspect as an asylum seeker from Morocco, who deliberately

:32:22.:32:23.

targeted women in a stabbing spree on a market square

:32:24.:32:28.

in the southwestern town of Turku, in what is being investigated as

:32:29.:32:32.

the country's first terror attack. Hate crimes committed online should

:32:33.:32:37.

be treated as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

:32:38.:32:41.

according to new guidelines for The Crown Prosecution Service says

:32:42.:32:44.

it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

:32:45.:32:49.

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

:32:50.:32:52.

in Charlottesville in the US. The move is part of a wider review

:32:53.:32:57.

of such crimes by the CPS. The US navy says ten of its sailors

:32:58.:33:04.

are missing and five have been injured, after one of its warships

:33:05.:33:07.

collided with an oil tanker off It's the second serious collision

:33:08.:33:10.

involving an American President Trump has said his

:33:11.:33:13.

thoughts and prayers Big Ben will ring out today

:33:14.:33:17.

for the last time on a daily basis in four years,

:33:18.:33:24.

as the Houses of Parliament undergo The bells will be muted

:33:25.:33:26.

for the longest period Some MPs have criticised the plan,

:33:27.:33:32.

saying the bell's chimes are an important part

:33:33.:33:36.

of national life. We will have those final bongs at

:33:37.:33:51.

midday. But for now, back to you. Thank you very much.

:33:52.:33:56.

Now the sport. Antonio Conte believes other clubs will be

:33:57.:34:01.

inspired to play Tottenham at Wembley this season. Spurs are using

:34:02.:34:05.

the National Stadium as their home ground this season. They lost 2-1 to

:34:06.:34:11.

Chelsea yesterday, adding to their Wembley woes. Mo Farah and his

:34:12.:34:15.

British track career with victory in the 3000 metres in Birmingham. He is

:34:16.:34:19.

now switching to road racing but says as a kid he dreamt of running

:34:20.:34:23.

for Britain. Stuart Broad says he wants to play in the 2019 asses

:34:24.:34:33.

against Australia. He moved ahead of Sir Ian Botham's 383 wickets in

:34:34.:34:35.

England's first test thrashing of the West Indies at Edgbaston.

:34:36.:34:37.

Thank you. The UK's leading arthritis charity

:34:38.:34:38.

has told this programme the condition is a "major public

:34:39.:34:40.

health issue", and if it continues to be ignored it could

:34:41.:34:43.

cost the economy more The NHS says around 10 million

:34:44.:34:45.

people have arthritis, and that it affects people

:34:46.:34:51.

of all ages, including children. To raise awareness of the condition

:34:52.:34:56.

- which can cause high levels of pain and fatigue -

:34:57.:34:59.

Arthritis Research UK has released a report which examines the long

:35:00.:35:01.

term impact it could have on the economy, the health service,

:35:02.:35:04.

individuals with the illness Let's talk now to Kirran Gill,

:35:05.:35:08.

who was diagnosed with arthritis Robert Aggar, who ran

:35:09.:35:14.

marathons before Olivia Belle, who is head

:35:15.:35:17.

of external affairs And Dr Benjamin Ellis,

:35:18.:35:20.

who is a consultant rheumatologist Welcome all of you. Bolivia, you are

:35:21.:35:36.

putting out some statistics today because you want to raise awareness.

:35:37.:35:43.

Among the statistics, over 8% of the NHS budget is going to be spent on

:35:44.:35:47.

arthritis this year, more than 10 million people are living with it.

:35:48.:35:52.

Those stats may surprise people? I think they do surprise people and

:35:53.:35:55.

that is why we are running this campaign. We want to show the true

:35:56.:36:03.

impact arthritis has on individuals, and on the rest of society. And

:36:04.:36:08.

unless something changes in terms of awareness and understanding, we will

:36:09.:36:11.

continue to lose out on the talent and the contribution of many people.

:36:12.:36:19.

You were diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis six years ago. What impact

:36:20.:36:26.

has it got on your life? I can't underestimate the impact arthritis

:36:27.:36:29.

has had on my life, in all honesty. I was a teacher working full-time.

:36:30.:36:36.

Due to arthritis I have had to give up my career. I have ended up

:36:37.:36:41.

housebound and bedbound for more than 50% of the time. It has had a

:36:42.:36:46.

huge impact on my relationships. My financial status. And I feel like I

:36:47.:36:53.

am a prisoner in my own body, really. So described that? It is a

:36:54.:36:59.

bit like having a migraine in all of my joints. Along with that, is also

:37:00.:37:07.

a huge sense of fatigue. It is like a petrol gauge. If I were to say

:37:08.:37:13.

that I start the day on the red, the light is already on, and that has a

:37:14.:37:17.

huge impact on relationships. My friendships, for example. And also

:37:18.:37:24.

concentration, memory. Robert, describe what it is like for you

:37:25.:37:29.

living with arthritis? You used to run marathons. What is the impact

:37:30.:37:35.

been on you? About five years ago I was planning to retire. I'd worked

:37:36.:37:39.

for 42 years. I had put my arrangements in place. I was given

:37:40.:37:44.

approval to actually pack up. I was playing golf. I was doing a lot of

:37:45.:37:48.

physical activity. At the very same time I got these peculiar pains in

:37:49.:37:52.

my groin and my lower back. I had never experienced anything like it

:37:53.:37:56.

before. I went into the National Health Service system. I went to see

:37:57.:37:59.

different people. And eventually it was diagnosed that I had got, my hip

:38:00.:38:05.

had totally worn out. There was no cartilage left. It was just bone on

:38:06.:38:09.

bone. The only thing they could offer me was a total hip

:38:10.:38:13.

replacement. At the same time the consultant said to me, by the way,

:38:14.:38:17.

I've got some other bad news. The other one will not last longer

:38:18.:38:21.

either. I had been through nine months of not getting proper sleep,

:38:22.:38:25.

not being able to walk around the park. I couldn't drive my car. I

:38:26.:38:30.

pack up work and I was pretty much stuck indoors. It was a dreadful

:38:31.:38:36.

time for me. Eventually I got my hip replaced. I managed to get back out

:38:37.:38:40.

on the golf course. Within 18 months, sure enough the other one

:38:41.:38:45.

give up as well. I went back into the system, spent another 18 months

:38:46.:38:51.

waiting. Painful for you, expensive for the NHS. Exactly. Massively

:38:52.:38:56.

expensive for the NHS. My operation cost about ?25,000. You are putting

:38:57.:39:04.

these figures out today because you want to raise awareness. We have two

:39:05.:39:09.

people here who were two of many. What do you hope to achieve with the

:39:10.:39:12.

campaign? What practical differences? We are hoping that with

:39:13.:39:18.

arthritis being recognised as a public health priority, more

:39:19.:39:21.

information is accessible to people so that you can look after your

:39:22.:39:25.

muscular skeletal health, but also find out information about the

:39:26.:39:29.

different arthritis conditions that you might have. We also want more

:39:30.:39:36.

support to our health care professionals who are doing a

:39:37.:39:42.

fantastic job helping people. But actually, there are a variety of

:39:43.:39:45.

conditions under the term of arthritis. It is a load of

:39:46.:39:52.

information for GPs who are -- we're trying to retain. More

:39:53.:39:58.

conversations. Looking after muscular and skeletal health, Doctor

:39:59.:40:03.

Benjamin Ellis is there. Can people prevented? Is early diagnosis a good

:40:04.:40:08.

thing? You can't completely prevent your chances of getting arthritis

:40:09.:40:12.

but there is a lot to do you -- to reduce it. That includes being a

:40:13.:40:16.

healthy body weight, being physically active, it includes not

:40:17.:40:22.

smoking. Smoking is a cause of some arthritis. What are the symptoms

:40:23.:40:28.

people should look for? The first thing you might notice if you are

:40:29.:40:33.

developing arthritis is the beginning of pain, stiffness,

:40:34.:40:38.

difficulty moving. Those are the symptoms. Difficulty doing everyday

:40:39.:40:42.

tasks using your hands, reaching for things that previously had been

:40:43.:40:47.

easy. When you start to get those symptoms, is it too late? Is it

:40:48.:40:50.

going to get worse rather think you can do? Absolutely not. Early

:40:51.:40:56.

diagnosis is important. It is important to get a clear diagnosis.

:40:57.:40:59.

The treatment will be different. It will depend what sort of arthritis

:41:00.:41:05.

you have. If you have osteoarthritis like Robert, physical activity,

:41:06.:41:09.

losing weight can be important. If you have rumoured -- rheumatoid

:41:10.:41:12.

arthritis, you will need specialist treatment to control the immune

:41:13.:41:16.

system attacking your joints. One viewer says he is a retired GP. He

:41:17.:41:24.

feels a section of GPs do not have empathy because it is such a common

:41:25.:41:28.

condition and they are opposed to the use of strong painkillers like

:41:29.:41:33.

opiates. They need to be more researchers and more research to

:41:34.:41:36.

alleviate the suffering. How were you both treated when you initially

:41:37.:41:43.

presented with symptoms? Particularly you, Karen, because you

:41:44.:41:47.

were particularly young. Was arthritis even on your radar as

:41:48.:41:49.

something that may be causing you problems? It was on my radar simply

:41:50.:41:56.

because a family member had it. However, generally speaking, no, I

:41:57.:41:59.

didn't think at the age of 27 that would even be something I would be

:42:00.:42:03.

considering. Generally it took a very long time to get through the

:42:04.:42:08.

system to get to see somebody who would test me for rheumatoid

:42:09.:42:13.

arthritis, because I think there is still a supposition that rheumatoid

:42:14.:42:15.

arthritis is something that happens as you get older, not when you are

:42:16.:42:20.

younger. Kids can get it? Absolutely. How young? You can be

:42:21.:42:27.

born with it. There are 12,000 young people living with a juvenile form

:42:28.:42:35.

of arthritis. Is that genetic? There are. Benjamin will no far better

:42:36.:42:39.

than I, but there are some inherited traits to some forms of arthritis,

:42:40.:42:47.

yes. 12,000, that's devastating if you are affected. But it is a

:42:48.:42:52.

relatively small number. As we are saying, it is a condition that

:42:53.:42:55.

affects millions of people. Why is it not more talked about? A number

:42:56.:43:01.

of reasons. We have talked about how it is dismissed as a natural part of

:43:02.:43:06.

getting older. What is old age? Why is it acceptable to live in pain

:43:07.:43:10.

when you are older? That is one thing. Also, I don't know whether it

:43:11.:43:16.

is the same for you, but many people have told us they don't want to be

:43:17.:43:20.

defined by their condition, they don't want to be the person always

:43:21.:43:24.

saying, I can't do this. You don't talk about it necessarily as much as

:43:25.:43:30.

you might do with other conditions. So really lifting the lid. That is

:43:31.:43:34.

the whole reason for this campaign, it is actually to say that by having

:43:35.:43:38.

a conversation about it, by talking about it, we can start recognising

:43:39.:43:41.

the problem and addressing it. Caroline White got arthritis the

:43:42.:43:47.

same age as you. She has got in touch. She has had it for 30 years.

:43:48.:43:52.

She has battled non-with support from her GP, medication and surgery,

:43:53.:43:56.

but it has now begun to have a major impact on her life. She was a

:43:57.:44:00.

teacher but has to plan her life carefully, how close she can get,

:44:01.:44:04.

how much standing room there will be etc. People don't realise the impact

:44:05.:44:08.

it has, especially if you keep a cheerful face and try to continue.

:44:09.:44:12.

Robert, do you feel like people around you understand the impact? At

:44:13.:44:17.

the time I didn't feel that people understood the full impact it was

:44:18.:44:22.

having on my way of life. It was affecting every aspect of my life at

:44:23.:44:28.

the time. And I was sort of doing whatever I could to ameliorate it.

:44:29.:44:32.

But the problem is it is a vicious circle. As soon as you get the

:44:33.:44:37.

condition, and it can come on very quickly, my other hip came on. I

:44:38.:44:41.

went to a Pilates class. I was trying to get my muscle tone back.

:44:42.:44:46.

The problem started. Within a week I was in a real pickle. The trouble is

:44:47.:44:52.

then you become less active, you put on more weight, you become bored.

:44:53.:44:57.

And it must affect your mental health? Absolutely. A terrible

:44:58.:45:03.

impact. It affects your relationship, you are stuck indoors

:45:04.:45:08.

all day. Especially in the winter, it is dreadful. You can't get out

:45:09.:45:12.

and about, you can't drive the car. It is awful.

:45:13.:45:16.

It is dreadful. Thank you all for coming in and helping to raise

:45:17.:45:17.

awareness. Still to come, this is Vicky Veness

:45:18.:45:22.

hours before she was diagnosed Doctors repeatedly told her that her

:45:23.:45:27.

symptoms were asthma - she'll be with us for her first TV

:45:28.:45:32.

interview. More people will die from fires

:45:33.:45:34.

started by faulty white goods if ministers do not act to implement

:45:35.:45:38.

recommendations, the London Fire Brigade, the city's mayor,

:45:39.:45:41.

and safety groups have warned. In a letter to Theresa May,

:45:42.:45:45.

they say some fridges and freezers are being sold

:45:46.:45:47.

with a flammable plastic backing. People continue to use products that

:45:48.:45:52.

are subject to recalls, it adds. The warning comes a year

:45:53.:45:55.

after a tower block fire in west London started

:45:56.:45:58.

by a faulty tumble dryer. Chantal Froelich lives

:45:59.:46:02.

in Shepherds Court Tower, where the fire started

:46:03.:46:04.

by the tumble dryer began. She was made omeless

:46:05.:46:07.

for three months. Jill Patterson is a lawyer

:46:08.:46:09.

at the legal firm Leigh Day and has been representing

:46:10.:46:11.

Chantal and other familes Thank you both very much for coming

:46:12.:46:27.

in, first of all, Jill, to the best of your knowledge, when was the

:46:28.:46:31.

alarm raised about issues around 40 white goods? There has been a

:46:32.:46:35.

problem with product recall systems in the UK for quite some time, so a

:46:36.:46:45.

number years ago a man called Sam -- Santosh Benjamin died in a house

:46:46.:46:49.

fire, and the inquest lasted three weeks, and at the end of that the

:46:50.:46:54.

coroner provided a number of recommendations about how the system

:46:55.:47:00.

needed to change to ensure that consumers safety was protected

:47:01.:47:05.

better. After that, the Government asked the consumer champion to chair

:47:06.:47:12.

a report. She produced some findings some 18 months ago now, and still

:47:13.:47:19.

nothing has happened. Since that time, other people have died in

:47:20.:47:22.

house fires associated with white goods. The Shepherds Court fire

:47:23.:47:26.

happened, it is just a miracle that, you know, it was not at night and

:47:27.:47:32.

that nobody died. You were made homeless by that fire, tell us what

:47:33.:47:36.

happened. So I live on the floor where the fire escapes to and

:47:37.:47:42.

couldn't get home for three and a half months. I'll so work in a block

:47:43.:47:47.

next door to where I live, and I saw the fire unfold. -- I also work.

:47:48.:47:54.

When we have this warning today from the mayor and London Fire Brigade is

:47:55.:47:58.

to say that not enough is being done to protect people from these faulty

:47:59.:48:05.

white goods, what do you think? I agree, I cannot believe these

:48:06.:48:08.

machines have not been recalled, that nothing has been done to

:48:09.:48:12.

prevent this kind of thing happening again. People dying in these fires,

:48:13.:48:17.

we are really lucky that it wasn't one of us. What could be done? There

:48:18.:48:22.

is also lots of different things that can be done. The London Fire

:48:23.:48:26.

Brigade have set out a number of them. The main issue is to say that

:48:27.:48:32.

the system is disjointed, so we need one sort of single place where all

:48:33.:48:38.

product recall is can be recorded, that people can access it and find

:48:39.:48:44.

out, you know, in a one-stop shop, whether their products are affected

:48:45.:48:48.

or not. But there is also enforcement issues, greater powers

:48:49.:48:53.

for trading standards, who are sort of the police force for product

:48:54.:48:58.

recall in the UK. What happens if you have got a mission in and the

:48:59.:49:02.

manufacturer gets in touch and says there is an issue with it? Are you

:49:03.:49:08.

obliged not to continue using it? That is part of the problem, there

:49:09.:49:13.

is a lot of confusion around the information given to consumers, so

:49:14.:49:18.

with the Hotpoint tumble dryer, for example, it is subject to a safety

:49:19.:49:22.

notice. The people that were using the tumble dryer that was involved

:49:23.:49:28.

in the fire at Shepherds Court were following the manufacturer's

:49:29.:49:33.

instructions, continuing to use it, but making sure that there was

:49:34.:49:37.

someone in the flat at the time. And a really, I think, just the language

:49:38.:49:46.

that is used about products is not strong enough. So if people were to

:49:47.:49:50.

see the word fire or risk of death or that sort of thing, then they

:49:51.:49:56.

might take things more seriously. Really personally, I think, that

:49:57.:50:00.

people should have the option to have the product taken away.

:50:01.:50:05.

Shepherds Court, the fire in your block, mercifully, did not spread

:50:06.:50:09.

very far - you were made homeless by it and others were affected, but

:50:10.:50:13.

when you subsequently saw what happened at Grenfell, how did you

:50:14.:50:19.

feel? It was devastating, especially when I found out that it could

:50:20.:50:22.

potentially be connected to Hotpoint, which was the cause of our

:50:23.:50:27.

fire. We don't want to get into things we do not know about, but

:50:28.:50:33.

faulty white goods, same sort of cause. The impact that it had

:50:34.:50:37.

compared to our fire, the magnitude of it, it was awful, and it is

:50:38.:50:46.

devastating. Why do you think it is, Jill, that changes were recommended

:50:47.:50:51.

after the Shepherd's Bush fire have not been made? I think it will cost

:50:52.:51:01.

a lot of money to do it, and a -- I just do not think it is being taken

:51:02.:51:04.

seriously enough. But the question is, what more needs to happen for

:51:05.:51:09.

somebody to take action? This action this morning from the Fire Brigade

:51:10.:51:13.

is fantastic, and the number of people calling for this change, it

:51:14.:51:17.

wouldn't be something difficult for the Government to do, so it is hard

:51:18.:51:21.

to understand why it is such a big issue for action to take place.

:51:22.:51:24.

Thank you both very much. Thank you. Many of us might have an idea

:51:25.:51:29.

in our minds of what a typical But Vicky Veness is trying

:51:30.:51:32.

to overturn those preconceptions, after being diagnosed with stage

:51:33.:51:36.

four lung cancer last week, despite looking perfectly

:51:37.:51:38.

fit and healthy. Vicky, who is a personal trainer,

:51:39.:51:40.

started getting symptoms 18 months ago, but she was told by doctors

:51:41.:51:43.

she was suffering Despite her symptoms getting worse,

:51:44.:51:46.

she battled through, running a marathon

:51:47.:51:51.

and training people every day. It was only when a lump

:51:52.:51:55.

appeared on her neck the devastating diagnosis,

:51:56.:51:58.

explaining that, "When you have cancer,

:51:59.:52:07.

you won't necessarily And I'm pleased to say Vicky

:52:08.:52:09.

is speaking to us now Thank you very much indeed for

:52:10.:52:22.

joining us. Tell us more about why you decided to put out that

:52:23.:52:26.

photograph. Well, when I was initially diagnosed, I was in

:52:27.:52:31.

complete and utter shock, I just couldn't believe this was happening

:52:32.:52:35.

to me. And I've always been healthy, I'm a personal trainer, I run

:52:36.:52:42.

marathons, and this just seemed unbelievable. Basically, this led me

:52:43.:52:47.

to my decision that I need to tell people that this illness is not just

:52:48.:52:53.

for smokers, and basically I want to let everyone know the symptoms so

:52:54.:52:56.

that they can spot them early and don't end up with a stage four

:52:57.:53:02.

diagnosis, like myself. Do you think the fact that you look so healthy,

:53:03.:53:06.

and you are a fitness instructor, running marathons, is that what put

:53:07.:53:11.

doctors off be sent in terms of what might have been wrong with you? I

:53:12.:53:16.

think so, because obviously I am not the stereotypical type of person you

:53:17.:53:23.

expect to have lung cancer. I mean, myself included, I would not have

:53:24.:53:29.

believed that this was possible. So you said about the symptoms that you

:53:30.:53:34.

had over a period of months, 18 months - what was the first you

:53:35.:53:39.

experienced? Well, when I was training for the land and marathon,

:53:40.:53:43.

that was really the first time that I noticed that something was wrong.

:53:44.:53:48.

-- the London Marathon. When I came back from a training run, my lungs

:53:49.:53:52.

would feel really heavy, like I couldn't get enough air in. And it

:53:53.:54:01.

was initially treated as asthma, that is a diagnosis that might have

:54:02.:54:04.

made sense, did you feel that was correct? Well, at the time, because

:54:05.:54:11.

I do a lot of exercise, I was diagnosed with exercise-induced

:54:12.:54:15.

asthma, so I thought that that was definitely possible, and I also went

:54:16.:54:22.

on to run a good marathon, so I just assumed that it must be correct. But

:54:23.:54:28.

you kept going back to doctors, why was that? Because really the inhaler

:54:29.:54:33.

is, I was given inhaler is, and I was given tablets, and I did think

:54:34.:54:38.

that they were doing a great deal. Did you ever suspected might be lung

:54:39.:54:42.

cancer? No, never, I could never have imagined. I still can't believe

:54:43.:54:50.

it, really, no, I wouldn't have thought this at all. So when you

:54:51.:54:54.

were told it was lung cancer, how did you react? It was, as I said

:54:55.:55:00.

before, just complete and utter shock, I couldn't believe that it

:55:01.:55:06.

was happening. Are you angry? No, I don't feel like that at all, so

:55:07.:55:11.

since I have been diagnosed, I have been trying to take positive and put

:55:12.:55:15.

all my efforts into raising awareness that this doesn't happen

:55:16.:55:19.

to somebody else and also getting ready to fight this illness. And

:55:20.:55:25.

tell us more about the symptoms, you want people to recognise the

:55:26.:55:30.

symptoms. Yes, so for me, I don't necessarily have a really nasty

:55:31.:55:37.

cough. It is just a tiny dry calf that you probably wouldn't even

:55:38.:55:40.

notice unless you knew that I had lung cancer. -- dry cough. It is not

:55:41.:55:49.

chest it, it is very subtle, and my actual diagnosis wasn't based on the

:55:50.:55:54.

cough, so it is really important that if you have a cough that lasts

:55:55.:55:58.

for a long time, you go to your doctor's. So when you say a cough

:55:59.:56:03.

that lasts a long time, over what period of time did you have this

:56:04.:56:08.

cough? Right from the beginning, right from the beginning, yeah, it

:56:09.:56:13.

has never gone away. It will be easily make people think, you know,

:56:14.:56:18.

with any sort of an ailing calf that they should perhaps be worried, what

:56:19.:56:26.

would you say? Go to the doctor's, get them to check your lungs have a

:56:27.:56:30.

peak flow, and if things don't get better after three weeks or four

:56:31.:56:35.

weeks, go back and get another check, keep going back. The thing

:56:36.:56:41.

is, you did keep going back. Yeah, I did. And you were given the all

:56:42.:56:46.

clear in terms of lung cancer. That is correct. I am hoping this

:56:47.:56:50.

awareness campaign will make lots of people realise that it is not always

:56:51.:56:57.

a smoker, it is not always an older person, it can literally be anybody,

:56:58.:57:01.

and I just hope people will look at this and my spots. What is happening

:57:02.:57:08.

now is the diagnosis in terms of treatment? At the moment, I haven't

:57:09.:57:15.

started any treatment. I am still waiting, I am going to start on

:57:16.:57:19.

Wednesday. I haven't had a proper chat with my oncologists yet, that

:57:20.:57:24.

will happen tomorrow, and then hopefully from there I can start to

:57:25.:57:29.

get better. How is everybody reacting around you? It is

:57:30.:57:35.

unbelievable, I am overwhelmed at the level of support that my post

:57:36.:57:46.

online received, it has just been amazing race about what is happening

:57:47.:57:54.

with them as well. I am feeling really positive, really good, and I

:57:55.:57:58.

am still working at the moment, and I am still training and doing

:57:59.:58:03.

everything as normal. We really wish you all the very best, thank you

:58:04.:58:06.

very much indeed for joining us. Thank you.

:58:07.:58:10.

Let me just bring you a quick update on what is happening in Marseille,

:58:11.:58:14.

one person has been killed and one injured after a car trove into two

:58:15.:58:18.

bus stops in different parts of the city. It is not clear at this stage

:58:19.:58:24.

if it was an accident or deliberate, the latest coming up on BBC News

:58:25.:58:28.

live. I will see you at the same time tomorrow. Bye-bye.

:58:29.:58:31.

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