21/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Monday, it's nine o'clock.

I'm Joanna Gosling welcome to the programme.

has found scammers are increasingly taking advantage of the goodwill of

people donating money in the aftermath of major tragedies.

So how can you be sure are you that your cash

is going to the causes you hoped to help?

The town was a Brew seat bonus. Was that a one-off or more widespread? I

would say about 80% of us were doing it.

Online hate crimes will now be treated as seriously as offences

The Crown Prosecution Service has updated its rules

following the growing number of cases occurring.

If the crime is committed because of somebody's hatred of that particular

characteristic, that is a hate crime. It is important to define it

as such. If we define it as a hate crime we can ask the court to

increase the sentence if they are convicted or plead guilty.

We will be talking to Love Island's Olivia about the abuse

The curtain has come down on Mo Farah's glittering track career with

a 3000 metres when in Birmingham. What next for the athletics legend

and what will his legacy be? We talked to his first running coach.

Hello, welcome to the programme. We're live until 11 this morning.

Do you suffer from arthritis? It is a condition that affects 10 million

people of all ages, including children, according to the NHS. The

leading arthritis charity says it is being ignored as a major health

issue. Get in touch if you have got arthritis and you know what it feels

like. use the hashtag Victoria live

and If you text, you will be charged Hate crimes committed online should

be pursued as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

according to new guidelines for prosecutors

in England and Wales. The Crown Prosecution Service

says it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

in Charlottesville in the US. Rhodri Colwyn Philipps,

the fourth Viscount St Davids, jailed last month for racially

aggravated threats on Facebook against Gina Miller,

the businesswoman behind She said she felt violated

by his shocking comments, just one of many online

attacks she suffered. Now, the Crown Prosecution Service

says these kinds of crimes must be dealt with as robustly

as offences on the street. It is promising a tougher response,

to build public confidence. There were more than 15,000 hate

crime prosecutions in 2015-2016, the highest number ever,

and a third of those convicted But the number of cases referred

by police to persecutors fell by almost 10%, a drop the CPS says

it is investigating. With the explosion in the use of

social media in recent years, it is very important the prosecuting

authorities, the CPS, the police, are as up-to-date as possible in

making sure they are using the law to its fullest extent. There is no

hiding place for these perpetrators. The law is clear. And if you persist

in this sort of behaviour, you will be detected, caught and punished.

Some critics say police and prosecutors

moved too slowly to apprehend online abusers.

That means people are reluctant to come forward.

The CPS hopes new guidance will create the

best possible chance of achieving justice for all victims.

The CPS says the campaign is not just aimed at raising awareness but

also encouraging victims of online hate crimes to come forward.

We know this is a crime that's underreported.

Sometimes people feel that they just have to sort of put up

with it, it's something that happens to them because they're disabled,

because they are gay, because they're a particular religion.

So we're really encouraging people to

think about the behaviours that are shown to them and to think about

reporting things which will be a hate crime.

Let us know your thoughts on that as well. The usual ways of getting in

touch. Matthew Price is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary The US navy says ten of its sailors

are missing and five have been injured after one of its warships

collided with an oil tanker off It's the second serious collision

involving an American President Trump has said his

thoughts and prayers More people will die from fires

started by faulty white goods, if ministers do not act

to implement safety guidelines. That's according to

the London Fire Brigade, They've sent a letter

to Theresa May in response to the Grenfell Tower fire,

which it's thought was started It warns some products

are still being sold Spanish police are investigating

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain, and assaults

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe the Iman,

Abdelbaki Es Satty, may have radicalised younger members

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

and a metro station in the city, With us now is our Europe

Correspondent, Gavin Lee. Gavin, what our police saying about

this possible link involving the imam and these other attacks in

Europe? They searched his empty property over the weekend. They

believe he is dead, that he accidentally killed himself in an

explosion where he was planning this attack. There was bomb-making

material. There was an explosion. Two people died. He was living in a

Pyrenees town, that is where the search took place. They believe some

of the parents of the suspects killed in the attack, say they were

radicalised by this man. There were links, it appears, with the Belgian

attacks, in Brussels. He was in prison were one of the suspects

behind the 2004 Madrid attack. We have had confirmation from the

Spanish police that the driver here on Las Ramblas, the suspect who

carried out that van attack, is Eunice Abouyaaqoub. -- Younes

Abouyaaqoub. They said they were looking for this one suspect who are

still missing. There is CCTV image re--- imagery which shows him

leaving on foot away from here. We have clarity at least on who exactly

this man is who is still missing. A suggestion from some of the

authorities this morning that there is a Europe-wide hunt for that man?

Just to be clear, the Spanish authorities aren't saying they

believed he left the country. They haven't got any evidence that he has

left the Catalan area. What they are saying is, they put out an alert on

Thursday night for assistance. After the Berlin attacks, the attacker was

found in Milan. After the Paris attacks, one of the men was hiding

out in Brussels. They are aware of that. Not suggesting he has

definitely left the country. Gavin Lee, thank you very much

indeed. We will be keeping you up-to-date with those developments

as they continue here on the news channel.

Military exercises by South Korean and American armed

forces are going ahead, despite protests from the North.

The drills are conducted every year, to prepare for an attack

The latest come amid heightened tensions following an exchange

of threats between Pyongyang and Washington.

The United Nations says 14,000 people have fled

from the Iraqi city of Tal Afar, where government forces have

launched a major offensive against so-called Islamic State.

About 2000 militants remain in the city which has been bombed

Motorists in Wales are being asked to pass footage

captured on dashcams to police, in an effort to clamp down

A pilot scheme in North Wales has seen action taken against more

than 100 drivers over the past year, after they were filmed

Members of the public are encourage to upload clips of "dodgy driving"

Big Ben will fall silent this lunchtime -

It's part of a major refurbishment of the Houses of Parliament,

which could see the bells muted for longest period in their history.

Since 1859, Big Ben has chimed through the reign of six

monarchs and two World Wars, with only a handful

However, Parliament says the bell now needs to be disconnected

for the safety of construction workers during major

But the plan to silence Big Ben has caused, well, rather a ding-dong.

There has been a backlash from the public and politicians.

The Prime Minister, Theresa May, says she has asked the Speaker

of the Commons to look into the matter urgently,

to see whether Big Ben could continue to be heard.

For now, Big Ben is due to be silenced until 2021,

except for special occasions, such as New Year's Eve

People are invited to gather in Parliament Square to hear

the final bongs at noon, before the great bell

We will bring you those final bonds live at midday.

The United States will experience a coast to coast total solar eclipse

for the first time in almost a century later today.

It is the first time in 99 years. The movement will turn day into

night for two and a half minutes across 14 US states. In the UK, a

partial solar eclipse will be visible just before sunset as the

moon appears to take a small bite out of the sun.

Here's a very good example of why not to use a mobile

Look what happened when a sinkhole opened up at this crossing

A scooter driver who was on his mobile didn't realise -

Don't worry though, luckily he walked away unharmed.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

Those pictures are incredible. Thank you. Still to come, we have a

special report on how scammers are increasingly taking advantage of the

goodwill of people looking to make donations in the aftermath of major

tragedies. How can you be sure your donated cash is going to the causes

you want to help? Get in touch with's. -- with's.

Britain bidding farewell to Sir Mo Farah.

The four-time Olympic gold medallist won his last ever track race on home

soil. He took the 3000 metres at the Birmingham Diamond League meeting.

It is that Sprint at the end, showing his power, dominance, and

just kissing the track to pay homage through his years on the track. The

father of four is now switching to road racing. He said all he dreams

about as a kid was running for Great Britain. We are going to be speaking

to the coach who started coaching at the age of 12. Totten, Wembley,

another bad result? They're using Wembley

as their home ground this season, is being knocked down

to make way for a new one. The problem sometimes

with using Wembley is that the away team can feel so fired up

like it's an FA Cup Final. On the pitch, it

finished 2-1 to Chelsea. All smiles for Chelsea, and a happy

manager in Antonio Conte, who Spurs have only won once

in 11 games at Wembley Talk of a curse is all a little too

early at this stage. But one to watch, definitely. Yes,

we will. It has been a great weekend for Britain's eventers.

and it's the first time they've won the title since 2009.

Nicola Wilson also took individual bronze.

Wilson could afford two penalties to secure the team gold

That confirmed Britain's win, and her own bronze individual medal.

Germany claimed team silver with Sweden finishing third.

Scammers are increasingly taking advantage of the goodwill of people

looking to make donations to help in the aftermath of major

tragedies, an investigation by the Victoria Derbyshire

The UK's fraud reporting centre, Action Fraud, has shown us examples

of fake fund-raising websites set up in the aftermath of the Grenfell

Tower fire that they've managed to take down.

But we've also found examples of organisations which look

like charities but aren't raising money on the street.

So how sure are you that your donated cash is going

With more than 200,000 registered charities in the UK,

you're not going to struggle to find a good cause

Last year, the British public donated around

And with the charity and voluntary sector worth around ?45 billion

to our economy each year, it's a big-money business.

So how can we be sure that the money we give on the street

or online is actually going to the causes we want to support?

It's somebody else pretending to be us.

So that can't do us any good, that's for sure.

Do you not feel that you are taking advantage

of the public's generosity? Yes.

So these things do tend to happen with regularity, I'm afraid,

whenever there is some sort of high-profile event that really

As a guide dog owner, I've benefited from charity.

And to say thank you, I volunteer some spare time

But for quite a few years now, I've come across some fundraisers

on the street who just don't sit right.

So I've decided to film some of them.

We buy mobility scooters for disabled adults and children.

Oh, right, yeah? And we're asking people...

His name is Salim Sayed, or Super Si.

He's raising money for something called the Happiness Foundation,

which claims to buy mobility scooters for local people.

What we do, we buy mobility scooters for adults

and children who are registered as disabled locally.

Everyone wants to support charity or whatever...

Exactly, if it weren't for people like you,

The Happiness Foundation is not a registered charity or a company.

Fundraising like this is not illegal, but it does make it

very hard to check to see if they are doing what they say

Online, a number of people have raised concerns

There was two complaints in 2014 on the Happiness

And then here starts the abusive ones.

This has been a problem for a not-for-profit company also

It feels like a great injustice to me, that we are not

doing anything wrong, we are actually doing

We mostly don't charge for what we've done.

Kath Temple set up her Happiness Foundation eight years ago

in memory of her brother, to provide counselling

But four years ago, she started getting complaints about

We were presenting to football's governing bodies,

Why should I be embarrassed? I haven't done anything wrong.

But I felt embarrassed because I knew that

if they did a search, perhaps that would come up.

It's not my Happiness Foundation, it's somebody else

So that can't do us any good, that's for sure.

We tried to talk to Salim Sayed, but he hasn't responded to our messages.

We did manage to track down one of the men behind

the Happiness Foundation, Marcus Leavsley.

He told us they weren't pretending to be Kath Temple's

Happiness Foundation, and they do provide mobility

scooters for disabled people, though he wouldn't show us

Hello, is Marcus Leavsley around, please?

Mr Leavsley, it's the Victoria Derbyshire Show.

Are you going to come and have a chat with us?

We asked Marcus Leavsley to be interviewed, and he declined.

We asked him to show us that he really is doing the good

He has told us, however, that the Happiness Foundation

no longer exists, and claims that he will still be honouring

We've seen evidence that shows the same people behind

the Happiness Foundation are selling the same competition tickets under

They're still not a registered charity or a company,

and they still claim to be buying mobility scooters

We've seen no evidence that the actions of this

Happiness Foundation, or the Theme for a Dream Project, are illegal.

But increasingly, campaigners are taking action themselves

when they come across fundraisers that worry them.

Have you looked at their files? No, I haven't.

Do you know any of the charity work that they actually do?

Colin Eastway was a paratrooper in the British Army, where he served

He has been confronting people who he thinks are posing

as military charities, and posting videos online.

Friends who have been injured in Afghanistan.

For example, lost limbs, maybe have PTSD or neurological injuries,

they will look towards the charities for help and assistance.

In terms of the way that you feel disrespects their service.

It does make me very angry, to think that they are actually

stealing money from my friends, who are looking towards

People think they're putting money in the bucket and

When actually they're not, they're given to a scam company.

And what do you think about these people?

Obviously, it's the lowest of the low.

Stealing from a charity, stealing from a disabled charity,

stealing from any sort of charity is the lowest of the low.

What would you say to people if, you know, looking at the YouTube

videos, looking at some of the confrontations,

why would it be wrong to see that as vigilante action on your part?

I'm not a vigilante. I'm just a member of the public.

And as a member of the public, you have the right to ask

questions like, "What's your charity registration number?"

"How much of my ?1 goes to the charity?"

And you never feel that you go too far?

No, I never go too far, never go too far.

Beyond the grey areas organisations like Marcus Leavsley's

Happiness Foundation operate in, there are criminals

who take advantage of the public's generosity.

I've spoken to a man who admits he used to steal money

He worked for companies that raised money for Armed Forces charities

through bucket collections and competition ticket sales.

But a big chunk of the cash ended up in his and his colleagues' pockets.

They basically raised all of the money

and then gave money to a certain charity.

So, out of every ?10 that was going in your bucket,

or through tickets sold, how much was the charity getting?

So ?2 out of every ?10? ?2 out of every ?10.

I mean, how clear was it from the tickets

that were being sold as to how much of that money

The only thing about it was just hidden in the back of a folder.

Just a statement that said, "Look, we'll give 20% to this charity."

They also sold competition tickets for ?2.50.

Steve and his colleagues would convince people to give them

extra money by telling them they were helping injured soldiers.

Instead, it was going straight into the fundraisers' pockets.

Do you not feel that you were taking advantage

Yes, at times. I mean, it was.

I mean, quite a few of us like to think we're doing a good deed,

but at the end of the day, it was a job for us.

And in particular, sometimes we earned good money.

Solicitor Robert Craig is a specialist in charity law.

He said the public need to take a careful look

before donating to apparently good causes.

My wife and I were out, and some boys approached us

to raise money for a gym which was teaching boxing to kids.

And we thought that was a very good idea,

so we said, you know, tell us more about it.

I asked a couple more questions, and they sort of disappeared.

We took the name of the charity, or the organisation,

And the guy who ran it assured me they have no collections,

that they don't raise money from the public like that - they get grants.

And he has heard about this before, and obviously here are some

youngsters starting on an early life of crime, trying to raise money

Which is deplorable, but, you know, what can you do?

I'm sure a lot of people going past would have just

And should the police be doing more, do you think?

I don't think you can expect the police to do much more

than deal with very obvious cases where they find that,

for example, because they see people stealing money out of a tin,

or they catch people as part of a larger fraud.

It's to do with, what's the public interest in pursuing it?

And how likely are they to get a conviction?

And also, whether finding a few people will actually

stamp out the problem, which I doubt it will.

I'm here in the City of London, because the police here gather

all of the reports of charity fraud from around the country

so that local forces can investigate it.

I want to see if I can find out just how big the problem really is.

In terms of reports of the last year,

we had 800 reports made to us by the public about charity fraud.

We're conscious that what's reported to us is but a fraction

of what actually happens in terms of all kinds of fraud,

So that 800 is a fairly large number of reports

But we're conscious that the problem is most likely a lot larger

Can you give me any recent examples of how people have exploited

Yes, a very recent example, and a very tragic example,

would be websites and Just Giving pages

being set up in support of the Grenfell Tower incident.

We within the NFIB set up a process where we could monitor new websites

that are being set up with a link to Grenfell Tower,

especially anything reported to be a charity collection website.

One of them directly on the first day that we set up

the process, we did establish was a fraudulent website.

The person who set it up, as soon as money was being paid

into his bank account, he was then withdrawing money

We managed to get that website taken down on the same day

You tend to find it's happening more and more frequently

in connection with high profile, you know, tragedies.

We also had similar incidents occurring with the Manchester

So these things do tend to happen with a regularity, I'm afraid.

Whenever there is some sort of high profile event that really touches

at the heart of the public who, in their generosity,

they want to do something, they want provide a way of giving

So how do we avoid being duped by a fake charity?

The regulator, the Charity Commission, has this advice...

Check that street fundraisers have a charity registration number.

That they are happy to give further information when asked.

And when donating online, avoid requests to give cash

The vast majority of fundraising is legitimate, but we found grey

areas where it is all but impossible to check where your money ends up.

And there are scammers that are prepared to go to ever more

sophisticated lengths to snatch money from those who most need it.

With authorities' resources stretched, it's increasingly down

to us to make sure that that cash is going where we want it to.

Led us know your thoughts on that. Peter on Facebook, I am very wary of

anyone on the street all with a stall at car-boot sales claiming to

be doing it for charity, how do we know it is genuine? Christopher

says, I have been involved in the charity sector for a few years, and

it needs to get a grip on this, because it gives honest charity is a

bad name and undermines the often crucial work the sector is doing.

The vast majority of those I have worked with and working with today

in the charity sector are honest and dedicated to the causes they are

helping. Keep your thoughts coming in.

And in the next hour, we'll hear from the charity

regulator and a woman whose charity to raise funds for her son's

Also coming up, Love Island's Olivia will be talking to us about the new

changes in hate crime law. And Mo Farah's incredible career on the

track finished last night with yet another win, and we expected nothing

less, of course. We speak to three people who have worked and trained

with him throughout his career. Putts join Matthew for a summary of

today's news. Hate crimes committed online should

be pursued as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

according to new guidelines for prosecutors

in England and Wales. The Crown Prosecution Service

says it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

in Charlottesville in the US. The US Navy says ten of its sailors

are missing and five have been injured after one of its warships

collided with an oil tanker It's the second serious collision

involving an American President Trump has said

his thoughts and prayers Spanish police are investigating

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain and assaults

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe the imam

Abdelbaki Es Satty may have radicalised younger members

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

and a Metro station in the city, More people will die from fires

started by faulty white goods, if ministers do not act

to implement safety guidelines. That's according to

the London Fire Brigade, They've sent a letter

to Theresa May in response to the Grenfell Tower fire,

which it's thought was started It warns some products

are still being sold Big Ben is going to bring out for

the last time today, for the first time on a daily basis in four years.

The Houses of Parliament are undergoing a major refurbishment and

the bells will be muted for the longest period in their 157 year

history. Some MPs have criticised the plan.

We will be bringing those bells to you live, the last time they ring at

midday. That is the latest BBC News. Very controversial, isn't it? We

will of course listen to those bells at midday.

Now the sport. Mo Farah ended his British track career with victory in

the 3000 metres in Birmingham. He is now switching to road racing. He

said as a kid he dreams of running for Britain. Chelsea manager Antonio

Conte has warned Tottenham teams will be inspired by playing against

them at Wembley. Spurs lost 2-1 at Wembley yesterday in their first

league game at the National Stadium. And Great Britain won team gold at

the European eventing Championships in Poland, the first time they have

won the title since 2009. I'm back at ten.

From today, prosecutors will be expected to treat online hate crimes

The Crown Prosecution Service has updated its rules

following the growing number of online abuse cases.

A hate crime is an offence motivated by prejudice

towards a person's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation

The CPS says it will prosecute complaints of online hate crime

"with the same robust approach used with offline offending,

while recognising that children may not appreciate the potential harm

and seriousness of their communications".

It's Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders,

said many hate crimes were under reported.

There are two things we have lost. One is internal guidance for

prosecutors, the different things they need to take into account in

relation to the specific strands of hate crime, and to make sure that we

are asking for a sentence left, where we are convicting individuals,

and also their public facing statements, and also social media

campaign we are launching today. That is important because we know

this is a crime that is underreported.

Sometimes people feel that they just have to sort of put up with it,

it's something that happens to them because they're disabled,

because they are gay, because they're a particular

So we're really encouraging people to think about the behaviours that

are shown to them and to think about reporting things

Last month, some MPs told us about the trolling and abusive

language they regularly received - some of which falls

into the category of a hate crime. Let's hear from them.

Caroline Ansell is as bad as Isis, and Hitler.

Get out of my country, you ugly racist...

I want to see your head swinging from Tower Bridge.

We voted Brexit and Article 50 is going to get triggered anyway.

Well, joining us now is Paul Twocock, who is from the LGBT

Olivia Attwood, who has been the victim of vicious abuse

since appearing on the programme Love Island.

This is her first TV interview talking about it.

And Sheila Atim, who has been racially abused

in public many times, but never online.

Good morning. Thank you for joining us. Olivia, welcome. What sort of

abuse have you received? When I was on the show, unfortunately a lot of

the abuse was directed at my family. I was in a bubble. Since I came out

it has all been online. A lot of it I couldn't repeat on breakfast

television. Can you give us the censored version? Death threats,

people making personal comments. How many death threats? A significant

amount. What do they say? Things like, you should die. What do they

say about why they hate you so much? There are no specific reasons. I

think they have watched the show and they feel like they know you. They

want to express their thoughts. Because they are hiding behind a

keyboard, it is being able to get that message across that they

believe there are no consequences, which often there aren't. Do you

feel threatened? I made a conscious effort to not let it affect me. I

went into the series with the eyes open. When I came into this industry

I was warned this was something I would have to put up with. I think

it is so sad that you work in the public eye and you are warned you

will have to tolerate this kind of behaviour. That is quite an issue.

That we normalise it to that extent. What impact as it had on you? It has

been upsetting. It would be wrong to say it hasn't. But it is, for me,

I'm quite thick-skinned. Somebody who wasn't like me, the effect it

could have on them emotionally and mentally, is devastating. You say

that you were told to expect it. Is there anything that you have thought

you probably should report it? Would you report scoffed? There are

things. Is this normal? You can't pretend you haven't seen it. You

don't really know what you are meant to do when you see it and who you

should talk to, because it is so normalised. You see it so much. I

see some any people in the industry who do what I do get the same

messages and comments. It is one of those things you are programmed to

believe it is quite normal. Woody report something to the police? If I

felt a genuine threat to my life, to my safety, I would. You say you have

death threats, but you wouldn't report those? I personally try not

to take it literally. I hope it is just what you see on there. But for

someone else that might not be the case. Paul, where would you draw the

line? If you feel you have been intimidated, and certainly if you

are receiving threats online, they should be reported. What you are

saying is absolutely right. It depends on the individual. You

shouldn't have to just grin and bear this sort of intimidation. In online

spaces you can have a mob intimidating you. If you imagine

that on the street, you would report that. You should think about the

equivalence. If we don't crack down on online hate crime, it will get

worse and seep into other forms of hate crime. Is there a direct link

between someone doing something online and feeling emboldened to

speak out? Or is it someone sitting quietly at the keyboard feeling that

they will get away with it, and remains defiant? I haven't read any

research which shows that direct link. If you'd think, through common

sense, if we say it is permissible to have this sort of hatred online,

people will feel emboldened and feel like this is permissible in society.

Online spaces are so important in societies and communities that we

should be cracking down on this hate online, where it is more prevalent

than on the streets. We don't want to increase hate crime in the street

as well. Olivia, have you had a face-to-face abuse as well? No, I

haven't. That is the confusing thing about these situations. All the

reaction I have had in public has been positive. It doesn't match up.

There is something quite wrong there. There is a whole community of

people online that feel so passionately against me in this way.

But when I am out on a day-to-day basis, people are lovely, it is all

positive. It doesn't weigh up. Sheila has had abuse face-to-face

but not online. What has your experience been? Yeah, obviously I

am a black woman, so I have experienced racism ever since I was

a child in the street. You get people shouting at you from cars. It

can come at any point. I was confronted with my friend by people

in the street because they felt like that at that point in time. They saw

us as a target. I have had it on the train. You get it at work sometimes.

It is kind of a regular occurrence. Do you think it is right to treat

online abuse as harshly as off-line? Absolutely. Even though I haven't

been a victim of online abuse myself, I have friends who have been

victims of online abuse. I have witnessed the online abuse that a

lot of people who are in the public eye received. It can be just

psychologically taxing and damaging, just like other abuse. Even though I

have managed to get through life, you still take it with you. You can

actually be quite frightening to know that somebody who is not in any

close proximity to you, still has a way of reaching you and getting to

you. That is quite frightening. Paul, if someone is saying something

online that they wouldn't say to someone's face, do they perhaps not

really realise the impact of what they are doing, but also how serious

an issue it is due macro particularly with kids, actually,

because kids can potentially say anything online and not necessarily

realise that what they are doing would equate with a crime? I think

it is important, that's why we need to treat online hate crime as

seriously. There is terrible bullying in our schools. Over halve

of lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans children are abused at school. There

is still an important lesson to be learned, whether somebody is a child

or an adult, that this is never acceptable, that it does create

psychological damage. People shouldn't feel like they can't be

who they are, that they can't live their lives because of somebody

else's violent hatred towards them. What is the way to deal with it if

kids are doing the sort of things you are talking about? Does become a

crime issue immediately? You can see in the CBS guidelines -- CPS

guidelines, all the work we do with schools is educating children to

think about the impact of what they are doing to their peers. Michael

Lyndall has tweeted to say that we are in the slippery slopes of

censorship. How will they balance this with the right of free speech?

What do you think of the right for people to have free speech? I think

it is not anything like that. I'm quite opinionated myself. There is a

line between being opinionated and abusive. You can say you don't like

someone and don't agree with what they do. But to be personal and

threatening, that's two different things. Having an opinion on someone

and watching a show and thinking, I'm not keen on that person, and

writing that you want bad things to happen to them and their family,

that is not an opinion. There is a massive difference. It's right for

people to be pulled up where did they do this. Is it right for

someone like you to say -- to go online and turn it back on them? I

choose not to engage in it. I think a lot as well with people online,

especially keyboard warriors were reality TV is concerned, they want

to engage you. They feel they know you because they have watched you

for an hour each day. What they would like is a reply. I'm not going

to use precious energy in a day to do that with someone who has chosen

to write into one of my social media accounts and give them the platform.

After today with the CBS saying that they want part of the thing going

forward is for people to feel emboldened to report online abuse,

if it is appropriate, does it make you feel differently about it? Yes,

I think it needs to come to a point, were speaking to other people who

have been in a situation like me, we are normalising it. Where are all

just acting like it is normal. That is their problem. When it happens,

you need somebody you could speak to and you don't feel you are

overreacting. That there is a number you can call and it can be dealt

with in an appropriate way. And you feel like that is your lifetime, as

such. I have had this message, what should I do? Somebody can advise

you. Do people stop when you ignore them? Yeah, on the whole. When I was

in the show, when I was in the villa, it was relentless towards my

family and friends. It was terrible for them because they took the

burden of it. I was ignorant of it. They didn't stop. We had to block

people and delete accounts. When I came out of the show I am a real

person. It did massively taper off. People can see, she is a normal

girl, she was on the show. It has got a lot less. But for them it was

terrible. An interesting point about Olivia

saying people have the distinction, where she is on television and not a

real person. You have experienced something completely different to

where people are just rude to you face-to-face. Do you ever reported?

No, I am sad to say I don't. Both online and offline, it is something

we believe we are supposed to learn to adapt to, something that we are

supposed to grow a thick skin around and except. And I think everyone on

this show is absolutely right, that actually we don't have to accept it.

There is the option for us to complain about it and to get some

justice behind it. And I think a big part of the reason why people

experience a difference in real life to online is because these people

are emboldened behind a screen, they feel protected, they feel anonymous.

Even though I have a face-to-face abuse, there were incidences where

people were shouting out of cars is the equivalent, driving away,

whereas I am walking on the street, so I am never going to know who that

person was, they are gone within a few seconds. So I think it is

absolutely important, absolutely. Sheila, Olivia, Paul, thank you for

joining us, led us know your thoughts on the conversation, the

usual ways of getting in touch. Coming up, arthritis.

Ten million people in the UK suffer from it,

including young people and children, but campaigners say it is being

ignored as a major health issue and costing the NHS billions.

Sir Mo Farah has won his last track race on home soil

in the 3,000m at the Diamond League meeting in Birmingham.

It has been a successful final month for Sir Mo.

First day, I went in and everybody was just sort of speaking

a different language, I found that really

But I got my cousins going to the same school as me,

but everything that I would tell in Somalian, it was just like,

If it wasn't for my PE teacher, who spotted me in the school,

I don't think I would be in this position.

What motivates me is to try and do the country proud.

Now I just want to do the best and, you know, continue winning.

And this is the sight that everybody has come to see.

The final win for Mo Farah in Britain!

It's important you have the right people in your life.

And I think that's what it is, very important.

The people that have the best interest for you.

When I run for my country, I'm very proud.

This is where I grew up, this is where I've done everything.

And you don't achieve something overnight.

You've got to keep continuing and keep working hard.

And sometimes, you know, things don't go the way you want,

but you've got to come over it and keep going, moving forward.

Let's speak now to Alex McGee, who is Mo Farah's first ever coach.

He worked with him at the Windsor Slough Eton

and Hounslow Athletic Club from the age of 12

We also have Goldie Sayers who, as well as being an elected member

of UK Athletics newly-formed athletes' commission,

she is the recently retired British javelin record holder

She has known Mo since they were on the junior athletics

And we can also from Limerick, we can talk to John Kiely,

who is a sports and exercise scientist and used to be head

He worked with Mo between 2005 and 2008 to get him ready for Beijing.

Thank you all very much for joining us. He has been an absolute tour de

force that people have fallen in love with, hasn't he? Tell us what

he was like when he was 12. Any typical 12-year-old child. He used

to come training, he didn't speak much English, so it was a lot of

hand things to get him to understand, initially, what he had

to do. But he was just like any young person I was coaching then.

Was there a spark, an obvious talent that you spotted? Not until the

first league match at Perivale, I was timekeeping, as I normally did,

and he did the 1500... Sorry, when was that? Not long after he came to

the club. He was still 12, and he ran 4.44, and I loved that Alan and

said, where as that come from? It wasn't until he got on the track

that he felt Rob Lee at home, comfortable. 4.4 for at Did he

realise how special and was? What did you say to him? Well done, just

keep working at it. He was only a young child, my thoughts were you do

not try and encourage them to bar, you want them to build up gradually,

then tell them. What were you thinking at the time? This is a

future British Olympian? No, future good athlete at that time, because

obviously he had not done training or anything like that, and it wasn't

until his first cross-country race, he got to the English schools, and

he may have won it had he not gone the wrong way because he had never

done cross-country, and he couldn't understand which way the marshals

were telling him to go. So we didn't always win? No, he didn't always

win. What did he do when he didn't win? Sulked! Did it renew his focus?

They just gradually built up, and as it got into the races, it became

evident after a few finals that he got into, through the age groups,

that he liked winning. He didn't like losing. That became evident,

but much later on. John, you worked with him in 2005, a lot later, to

get him ready for Beijing, how important is it, with someone

showing great talent, to actually properly channel that talent? It is

a complex part with lots of potential pitfalls, and it is a time

when lots of promising athletes fall off the radar, really, because of

mismanagement, overtraining, injury, any host of problems that might

cause them to pack it in. The time that I worked with Mo, he was

working with a very group from St Mary's in London, run by a former

steeplechase Olympic medallist, really good group, really well

managed. I think that Mo at the time wasn't... You know, he was one of a

host of good up and coming athletes, but he was not identified as a

future world beater. I think what he did have from the get go was he

brought some talents to the table that other people didn't have. So if

you think of endurance running, it is an event which historic Lee

people have tried to quantify with scientific measures. -- which

historically. There were lots of athlete at the time around the UK

who had better oxygen carrying capabilities than Mo, but what he

had in spades was he was an excellent move, excellent

coordination, if you showed him a move, he would execute it really

well. It is something that we do not normally look for, something that

endurance athletes do not normally train for, but he brought that to

the party and had it in spades. It properly goes back to a very active

youth, played a lot of football, but a very real talent for whatever

reason. OK, I want to bring in Goldie, you have known him since you

were on the junior athletics team together, how did you see him? He

was clearly talented, but all Mo, it is his work ethic that has set him

apart, and his will to win as well. To do what he has done, I think most

athletes are happy if they have won one world or Olympic title, but he

has won 14, so not only his ability but is longevity has been so

impressive for me. Impressive over the years, and still impressive with

him going out now - widely think he is going out now? The nature of the

event he does, the mileage he does, 120 miles a week for well over a

decade, I have known him for 20 years, and he was always a

long-distance athlete, so not only the physical capability, the mental

energy that goes into winning titles, and I think that starts to

wane as you get over the age of 34, which he is now. He spoke after

winning the medal at the World Athletics Championships about the

impact on him of the Salazar allegations, it was clear that it

has had an impact on him, what is your, knowing the man, what is your

understanding of that? It absolutely must have done, and we have to

remember this is an allegation against his coach, not against him,

and it is going to have an impact on his career, and what he doesn't want

it to do is have an in impact on his legacy and all the thousands of kids

he has inspired, and the other team members as well. We have to remember

what he has done, not only for himself and his family, but the

sport in the UK as well. How would you define his legacy? One-off, if

not our greatest athlete of all time, truly an inspiration to kids

and also distance runners in this country, because ten or 15 years

ago, if you said we have an Olympic champion in long-distance evidence,

against the Kenyans, Ethiopians, most people would have laughed, and

Mo has made it possible for the next generation. What do you think going

forward, John, is he going to be able to be at the top of the

marathon world, which is where he is going? I think he certainly has all

the tools to do that, but the physical tools and the psychological

tools in terms of the knows what it takes, he knows what it takes to,

you know, conduct those endless miles of routine training away from

the camera. He is well used to that, and as Goldie alluded to, it is

difficult to predict in terms of how much wear and tear there already is

in the system, and when it will actually start to have a negative

effect on performance, and that is something that nobody can predict. I

think, to date, one of the great things with Mo is he is both

physically and psychologically robust and resilient. Hopefully,

that resilience psychologically, emotionally, physically will

continue. If it does, then I can't see why he can't have an excellent

marathon career. I guess whether or not he goes an to the heights that

he did on the track remains to be seen. Alex, just looking at these

great pictures of Mo Farah, the absolute joy on his face when he

achieves that great success, everybody watching at home feels

pride. As someone who has played a part in shaping him into the great

athlete that he became, how do you feel when you watch them? Pride?

Just as when he was younger, you know, it did go over onto his

colleagues, you know, the other athletes he ran with. I mean, I

think there was one stage when he had to move on, and I wasn't sure,

he was going to go and train with someone else, people who I coached

at the same time as well, and there was that age gap. But he looked up

to them, and he really looked up to Sam a lot. So it was probably later

on, we used to go out to bushy park, the Kenyans would-be there, and I

would say, Manors, don't go so fast, you are not raising anybody, but he

was, he was racing the Kenyans. Lovely to talk to you all, thank you

very much, Alex, Goldie, John. Let us know what you think of that great

career. Simon King has the weather details.

where people are just rude to you face-to-face. Do you ever reported?

A brief warm spell heading our way in the next couple of days. This

morning we'll start of misty and murky. This is the scene in Kent.

Lots of cloud. Further east, there are some sunny spells. Not too bad

in Hartlepool. Sunshine here. In the north-east, you will keep that

sunshine into the late afternoon. Elsewhere, it is turning quite

cloudy. This warm front is moving north. Behind it, we have warmer,

tropical air from the south. It will feel quite humid in parts of the UK.

That will bring outbreaks of rain in the north. They should be some

breaks in the cloud developing in the South. Where you get sunshine,

temperatures probably higher than these temperatures suggest. For the

North Midlands, North West England, North Wales, the Isle of Man,

Northern Ireland, heavy rain expected. But in north-eastern

Scotland, holding onto the sunny spells with temperatures 16 to 18.

There is the great American eclipse this evening. In the UK we may

actually see a partial eclipse around about eight o'clock. Look to

the bottom left-hand corner of the sun, safely, and you will see the

Moon passing about 10% of the surface. But for this evening it is

cloudy. It will stay cloudy into the early hours of Tuesday. Quite a

humid night. Temperatures 16 degrees. Further rain in the north.

The warm front has shown... More of us in this warm sector, this

tropical air mass. Warmer from any. Still cloudy skies, outbreaks of

rain, particularly in Northern Ireland and Western Scotland.

Thundery through Tuesday afternoon. Temperatures 22 to 24 degrees. 15 to

17 in Scotland. This warm air will be with us for the next few days but

then that will gradually move away as we get to midweek. From

Wednesday, fresher conditions from the West. By Thursday, all of us out

of those fresher conditions. Temperatures dropping. It will stay

fairly unsettled. Outbreaks of rain. Showers on Thursday with sunny

spells. I will see you later on.

Hello, it's Monday, it's ten o'clock.

I'm Joanna Gosling welcome to the programme.

Cracking down on online abuse. Now it will be treated the same as any

other hate crime. Love Island's Olivia says the relentless abuse

people put up which should not be tolerated. I am opinionated myself

but there is a line between being opinionated and being abusive. You

can say you don't agree with people. Put to be personal allowance

threatening, that's two different things. You can see the full

interview on our programme page online. We investigate the charity

scammers taking advantage of people's desire to help those in

need. Was that a one-off

or more widespread? I would say about 80%

of us were doing it. We will hear from the charity

regulator and a woman whose charity to raise funds for her son's

cerebral palsy was scammed. This is Vicky, hours before she was

diagnosed with stage for a long cancer. Doctors had repeatedly told

her her symptoms were as Ma. She will give her first TV interview in

about 45 minutes. Now let's join Matthew for a summary

of the news. Hate crimes committed online should

be pursued as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

according to new guidelines for prosecutors

in England and Wales. The Crown Prosecution Service

says it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

in Charlottesville in the US. The move is part of a wider review

of such crimes by the CPS. We know this is a crime

that's underreported. Sometimes people feel that they just

have to sort of put up with it, it's something that happens

to them because they're disabled, because they are gay, because

they're a particular religion. So we're really

encouraging people to think about the behaviours that

are shown to them and to think about reporting things which

will be a hate crime. Reality TV star Olivia Attwood said

she has been a victim of online abuse, but she says celebrities are

almost expected to tolerate hateful comments as a result of being in the

public eye. When I was in the show a lot of the

abuse was directed at my family because I was in the bubble of Love

Island. Since I came out, it has all been online. A lot of it I couldn't

repeat on breakfast television. Can you give us a censored version? It

is pretty severe. Death threats. People making personal comments.

Death threats? How many? A significant amount. What do they

say? Things like, you should die. The US navy says ten of its sailors

are missing and five have been injured after one of its warships

collided with an oil tanker off It's the second serious collision

involving an American President Trump has said his

thoughts and prayers Spanish police are investigating

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain, and assaults

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe the Iman,

Abdelbaki Es Satty, may have radicalised younger members

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

and a metro station in the city, More people will die from fires

started by faulty white goods, if ministers do not act

to implement safety guidelines. That's according to

the London Fire Brigade, They've sent a letter

to Theresa May in response to the Grenfell Tower fire,

which it's thought was started It warns some products

are still being sold Big Ben will ring out today,

for what could be the last time in four years, as the Houses

of Parliament undergo The bells will be muted

for the longest period Some MPs have criticised the plan,

saying the bell's chimes are an important part

of national life. You can listen to those final bongs

live at midday. Here's a very good example

of why not to use a mobile Look what happened when a sinkhole

opened up at this crossing A scooter driver who was on his

mobile didn't realise - Don't worry though, luckily

he walked away unharmed. That is a summary of the latest BBC

News. More at half past ten. Those pictures are unbelievable.

Still to come, the hunt for the driver who killed 13 people in

Barcelona last week has been extended across Europe. Spanish

officials say. We will have latest. We also have more on a warning from

London Fire Brigade, the mayor of London and safety groups that more

people will die from fires started by faulty white goods, if the

government doesn't implement guidelines made more than a year

ago. Get in touch throughout the morning. Now the sport.

Chelsea manager Antonio Conte is warning top number of other clubs

will relish the atmosphere at Wembley. Marcos Alonso scored twice

as the blues beat Spurs 2-1 in their first league game at the National

Stadium. Spurs have won on the two of the 11 games they have played at

Wembley since it reopened in 2007. Conte says the atmosphere is great

for visiting teams. But the Tottenham manager insists his

players can cope. It doesn't affect me. But I understand that we need to

talk. Today I think the Wembley effect is not the reason, because we

lose the game. I think the team played really well. It is not fair

to blame again Wembley, because Wembley is, for me, one of the best

places in the world, if not the best place to play football.

There was a minute's silence before Barcelona's match against Real Betis

last night, the first match since the terror attacks last week.

Players wore shirts with Barcelona on the back. They won the match 2-0.

Mo Farah has won his last ever track race in Britain with victory in the

men's 3000 metres at the Birmingham Diamond League meeting. He took the

gold in the 10,000 metres at the London World Championships, adding

to the titles he holds. His last track race will be next week in

Zurich after that he is switching to road racing.

What you forget as an athlete, it becomes something of a hobby, it

becomes a job. I love what I do. It is part of it. It can get real hard

when you have so much pressure. You can't go anywhere. Going to the road

will be a completely new game, a new mind.

I'm excited. Great Britain have won the team gold medal at the European

eventing Championships in Poland. Nicola Wilson took individual

bronze, she could afford two penalties to afford the team gold

but managed a perfect run. Germany claimed team silver, with Sweden

finishing third. The USA have won the Solheim Cup after beating Europe

in Iowa. The Americans had taken a commanding five point lead into the

final day's singles. It proved too much, despite a spirited European

performance. The United States have now won five out of the last seven

competitions. And finally, Zlatan Ibrahimovic has been showing off

just how strong his knee is. Almost strong enough to return to football.

He has posted a video of himself kicking a punching bag. He posted,

which need? He remains out of contract and without a club. He is

still wanted by Manchester United if he can return to full fitness. That

is all from me for now. More at 10:30am.

Some breaking news out of Marseille in France. We are just hearing from

the Reuters news agency that at least one person is dead and one

injured in Marseille after a car has crashed into two bus shelters. A

police source has said it is not clear if the incident was an

accident or deliberate. They are advising that the public avoid the

area. It has happened in the old Port district of Marseille. That is

all that we have at the moment. These early reports coming in from

the Reuters news agency of an accident in Marseille. One person

dead and one person injured after a crash in Marseille. It is not clear

if the incident was an accident or deliberate. We will stay across

those reports and keep you updated. An investigation by the Victoria

Derbyshire programme has found scammers are increasingly taking

advantage of the good will of people looking to make donations to help

in the aftermath of major tragedies. The UK's fraud reporting centre,

Action Fraud, has shown us examples of fake fund-raising websites set up

in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire that they've

managed to take down. But we've also found

examples of organisations which look like charities

but aren't raising So how sure are you that your

donated cash is going With more than 200,000 registered

charities in the UK, you're not going to struggle to find

a good cause to donate your Last year, the British

public donated around So, how can we be sure

that the money that we give on the street or online is actually

going to the causes We're buying mobility scooters

for disabled adults and children. Superman here is Salim

Sayed, or Super Si. He is raising money for something

called The Happiness Foundation, which claims it buys mobility

scooters for local people. That sounds great, but it

might not be the case. This Happiness Foundation is not

a registered company or charity. Fundraising like this is not

illegal, but it makes it very hard to check that they do

what they claim. Online, a number of people have

raised concerns about this There was two complaints

in 2014 on the Happiness And this has been a problem

for a not-for-profit company also We were presenting to

football's governing bodies, But I felt embarrassed

because I knew that if they did a search, perhaps that

would come up. We tried to talk to Salim Sayed, but

he hasn't responded to our messages. We did manage to track down

one of the men behind the Happiness Foundation,

Marcus Leavsley. He told us they weren't

pretending to be Kath Temple's Happiness Foundation,

and they do provide mobility scooters for disabled people -

though he wouldn't show us any Hello, is Marcus Leavsley

around, please? I've spoken to a man who admits

he used to steal money He worked for companies that raised

money for Armed Forces charities through bucket collections

and competition ticket sales. But a big chunk of the cash ended up

in his and his colleagues' pockets. Was that a one-off,

or was this more widespread? I would say a good 80%

of us were doing it. Did you not feel that

you were taking advantage Solicitor Robert Craig

is a specialist in charity law. He says the public need to take

a careful look before donating I don't think you can expect

the police to do much more than deal It's to do with, what's the public

interest in pursuing it? And how likely are they

to get a conviction? There were more than 800 reports

to Action Fraud about suspected Some of them were trying to profit

from recent disasters. A very recent example,

and a very tragic example, would be websites and Just Giving

pages being set up in support We set up a process where we could

monitor any new websites that were being set up with a link

to Grenfell Tower. On the first day we set up

the process, one that we did establish was a fraudulent website,

we managed to get that website taken down on the same day

and the bank account blocked. So how do we avoid being

duped by fake charities? The regulator, the Charity

Commission, has this advice. Check that street fundraisers

have a charity registration number. That they are happy to give further

information when asked. And when donating online,

avoid requests to give cash via money transfer companies.

This is a common scam. The fast majority of

fundraising is legitimate. But we found grey areas where

it's all but impossible And there are scammers that

are prepared to go to ever more sophisticated lengths to snatch

money from those who most need it. With authorities' resources

stretched, it increasingly falls to us to make sure that our cash

is going where we want it to. Let's speak now to Sarah Atkinson

from the regulator, the Charity Commission,

Daniel Fluskey, from the Institute of Fundraising,

which represents fundraisers, and Aline Garner, who set up

a charity to help raise funds This Sarah will feel sick and that

they are being targeted by scammers were never giving money. One of the

brilliant things about this country is that people give generously when

something happens, and it is awful when people exploit that goodwill

for the wrong cause, but there are some simple checks that we encourage

people to make to make sure they are giving to a genuine charity. How

many scammers do you think might be out there? Action fraud have talked

about 800 reports, and we think that is significant underreporting. A lot

of people would not reported, but we encourage people, if you think you

have avoided being the victim or you are a victim of fraud, please report

it, it helps us track these people down. What is the oversight for

unregistered charities? Does it come down to just people reporting? If an

organisation is not a registered charity, but it is fundraising for

good causes, there is not necessarily anything wrong with

that, there can be good reasons why people would want to fundraiser

outside the regulated environment, but you do not have the protection

of registration, so people should still ask questions, be confident

that you know where the money is going, and if someone cannot answer

your questions or seems evasive, it is natural to feel uncomfortable and

think, in these cases, I don't want to give there. As we are hearing, it

is very easy for underage, and obviously it is a really important

thing. -- it is very easy for people to fund raise. But it is also easy

to exploit people's goodwill, so what is the best way to crack down

on that? As Sarah said, the public should be on the lookout, and if you

are thinking about donating to a charity, and most especially where

there are big issues happening, emergencies or tragedies, people

want to give, and we want to encourage that, but the more that

people can have a look to check that it is going to a genuine cause, look

for the charity number, to see if it is late, and if it is on the street,

ask questions, see their ID badge, all those things will help people be

more assurance that the money is going to a genuine cause. It means

we all have to be more cynical, which is not nice, is it? You do not

have to be cynical, you should always be able to ask questions, and

charities should be open, upfront about how they raise funds. Make

sure that you think it is going to a genuine cause, and then you can give

safely and with confidence. Do think it is impacting on people actually

giving? I do not think it is in relation to giving, the British

public give about ?10 million every year. That is not to say that any

instance of fraud is not important, of course it is, but this country is

generous and people do want to support good causes. Linda has got

in touch to say there are so many dishonest people around that I go to

my local charity shops with goods and cash, I know they are getting my

donations. Ray has e-mailed to say that people who carry out street

collections should display an authorisation from the charity

concerned. And on Twitter, I often get back through my door is asking

for donations to be left outside, many I do not recognise as

charities. I see what you are both saying as being alert, and we heard

that in our report, ask questions, ask what they are raising the money

for, how much is going to the charity. And also when they got a

registered charity number. But in the end, is it simpler and easier

for people not to give on the street? What do you think? It is a

combination of your head and your heart, some really good advice for

people giving to charities that they know, who are picking sensible

routes to give, a way to ensure you are supporting a cause you love but

also making sure you are not being exploited and your generosity is

having the impact you want. We heard in our report about a scam that

involved ?2 out of every ?10 going to a charity - is there a minimum

that is charities should receive? Not in law, the rules are that you

need to disclose how much you're giving, so if someone approaches you

on the street and cannot answer questions or is evasive about how

much they are getting as the fundraiser, that is a warning. They

should be able to tell you. If it is in the small print and somebody

doesn't ask, there is nothing wrong with it, then? It is perfectly legal

for a professional fundraising organisation to take some money for

its share. Not every charity works in that way, and if it is something

you feel strongly about, choose charities that do not work in that

way. There is no set minimum, but hearing 20% going to the agency,

rather than to the charity, that wouldn't be acceptable. What should

a rule of thumb the? I do not think we can said they limit, because

different campaigns work in different ways, but a general rule

would probably be around 70-80%, if not higher, would go straight

through to the charity. The important thing is that every

charity, when you are working with an agency, you agree upfront what

the cost is going to be, you make a decision in the best interests of

the charity, and I would really be concerned, charities were making

decisions that said that only 20% should come through to us. I think

that is where Sarah and her team would get involved and check the

charity was being run properly, if they were making that kind of

decision. Sarah, Daniel, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

Still to come, the London Fire Brigade, the city's mayor,

and safety groups have warned more people will die from fires started

by faulty white goods if ministers do not act to implement safety

We will talk to a woman who was made homeless after a fire in a tower

block last year. I just want to bring you the latest

on the breaking news out of Marseille, where we have been

hearing from police that a car has given into two bus stops, one person

killed, one person injured. The police are saying that they don't

know at this stage accident or intentional, but the suspected

driver has been arrested. So that incident still ongoing, it happened

in the old port area of Marseille, and police are saying to avoid the

area. We will stay across those reports and keep you updated.

The manhunt for the driver of the Barcelona van attack which killed 13

people and injured dozens more has been extended across Europe,

officials in Spain have revealed this morning. 22-year-old Younes

Abouyaaqoub has still not been found. It is feared he may have fled

the country and slipped across the border into France. He was among 12

extremists that Spanish police said had been planning attacks for around

six months. Meanwhile, the Spanish newspaper El Pais has released

stills from CCTV showing what is believed to be Younes Abouyaaqoub

fleeing the scene on foot following the attack in Barcelona's Las

Ramblas. Police say they are investigating the possibility that,

90 minutes later, he stabbed and killed a Spanish man and stole his

car. Yesterday it was revealed that a seven-year-old British Australian

boy, Julian Cadman, was among the victims who died in the attacks in

Barcelona and Campbells. Let's speak to Dr Shiraz Maher,

who is an expert on radicalisation from King's College London,

and Will Geddes, who is an expert

on counter terrorism. Thank you both for coming in. The

focus now is on a man who is an imam who was working in a town where the

attackers were based. Tell us more about him, what is known about him?

Well, we are learning a lot more about him, he has travelled to

Belgium and been involved in network there, and he is known to have a

number of radical connections down in Spain, he spent time in prison as

well, and it is believed he had connections to the men who carried

out the 2004 Madrid bombings in the name of Al-Qaeda. So it seems he has

a pattern of associations with radical networks, and it is believed

he was involved in a bomb-making factory where an explosion went off

prematurely. Looking back over what he is a spec to have been involved

in, dating back to Madrid 2004, was he under surveillance? You would

have been on the radar at some point in time. The Madrid bombings in

2004, a lot of time has passed since then, so it is not clear if he was a

person of injustice to the Spanish, Belgian French authorities, but it

does demonstrate the scale of the problem that Europe as a whole is

facing now. -- a person of interest. Isis has an least an unprecedented

wave of terrorist attacks across the continent, overwhelming agencies in

this country and on the continent. So the challenge and the scale of

what is facing us right now is huge. Whenever something happens and we

sort of look at the potential signposts, people involved, should

they have been under better surveillance, what are your thoughts

now with this as more emerges about the characters involved? Well, the

interesting part is, in the wake of any kind of incident, is going to be

gathering up the various morsels of intelligence and information about

those that were connected, where they got their materials from, how

they considered of those. So for example, the explosion just before

the attack on Las Ramblas, they are looking at the component parts,

there are 120 but then canisters that had been amassed. There was

also some explosive, incredibly fragile, as they found out for

themselves, and explosive component that was used in Paris and Belgium

before. And they have also managed to apprehend the bomb maker, who

will be a very valuable source of intelligence in terms of the levels

of preparation, and also the wider network involved potentially. They

believe this attack was planned for six months with a cell of 12. As you

say, there was the explosion in what appeared to be a bomb factory. What

you think about the level of surveillance there was and whether

mistakes have been made? Again, because of the sheer number of

suspects that have to be monitored, the problem is that people will drop

off the priority list of the intelligence agencies because they

only have finite resource to monitor them. If we look at Abdelbaki Es

Satty, for example, although he had cross contamination, if you like,

with one of the Madrid bombers five years ago, when he was imprisoned

for smuggling crashes to Spain from Morocco, he was also connected to an

operation run by Spanish intelligence in Barcelona of those

that were propagating radicalisation materials. So he was very much on

the peripherals. We have seen time and again that it is not necessarily

the key priority targets but those on the outskirts who are moving up

the ranks. In terms of who is getting sucked in, those involved in

this attack are all young - what does that say about the way

radicalisation is happening, who is vulnerable and why?

We tend to find lots of young people drawn to these causes. They become

involved in terrorist activity are travelling to Syria or Iraq. One of

the interesting things to look at is how Isis has understood millennials.

It understands how to connect with them. These are people who are

thinking in 140 characters, not 140 pages. Al-Qaeda would release long

books trying to recruit people. What Isis does is it produces a very

binary, simplistic choice, which appeals to emotion, which naturally

resonate with young people looking for a panacea, looking for a quick

fix, looking utopia. Isis offer than that. Thank you very

much. Still to come, 10 million people in the UK suffer from

arthritis, including young people and children. But campaigners say it

is being ignored as a major health issue and costing the NHS billions.

And we talk to this woman, diagnosed with lung cancer last week. She has

shared this photograph of herself taken hours before her devastating

diagnosis, explaining when you have cancer you will not necessarily

looked ill on the outside. Let's join Matthew for the news.

Thank you. At least one person has been killed

and one person is injured in the French city of Marseille,

after a car crashed Police say the driver

has been arrested. But they are not saying whether the

incident is being treated as a terror attack or whether it is

merely an accident. Spanish police are investigating

a possible link between Thursday's attacks in Spain and assaults

by so-called Islamic State Authorities believe an iman,

Abdelbaki Es Satty, may have radicalised younger members

of the cell, which carried out the Las Ramblas

and Cambrils atrocities. They're also investigating

whether he was involved in the bombings at Brussels airport

and a metro station in the city, which killed 32

people in March 2016. The suspect in last week's stabbing

attack in Finland that left two people dead and eight injured,

was identified in court documents on Monday as 18-year-old

Abderrahman Mechkah. Police have previously described

the suspect as an asylum seeker from Morocco, who deliberately

targeted women in a stabbing spree on a market square

in the southwestern town of Turku, in what is being investigated as

the country's first terror attack. Hate crimes committed online should

be treated as seriously as offences carried out face to face,

according to new guidelines for The Crown Prosecution Service says

it will seek tougher penalties for abuse on social media,

which it says could lead to the type of extremist hate seen

in Charlottesville in the US. The move is part of a wider review

of such crimes by the CPS. The US navy says ten of its sailors

are missing and five have been injured, after one of its warships

collided with an oil tanker off It's the second serious collision

involving an American President Trump has said his

thoughts and prayers Big Ben will ring out today

for the last time on a daily basis in four years,

as the Houses of Parliament undergo The bells will be muted

for the longest period Some MPs have criticised the plan,

saying the bell's chimes are an important part

of national life. We will have those final bongs at

midday. But for now, back to you. Thank you very much.

Now the sport. Antonio Conte believes other clubs will be

inspired to play Tottenham at Wembley this season. Spurs are using

the National Stadium as their home ground this season. They lost 2-1 to

Chelsea yesterday, adding to their Wembley woes. Mo Farah and his

British track career with victory in the 3000 metres in Birmingham. He is

now switching to road racing but says as a kid he dreamt of running

for Britain. Stuart Broad says he wants to play in the 2019 asses

against Australia. He moved ahead of Sir Ian Botham's 383 wickets in

England's first test thrashing of the West Indies at Edgbaston.

Thank you. The UK's leading arthritis charity

has told this programme the condition is a "major public

health issue", and if it continues to be ignored it could

cost the economy more The NHS says around 10 million

people have arthritis, and that it affects people

of all ages, including children. To raise awareness of the condition

- which can cause high levels of pain and fatigue -

Arthritis Research UK has released a report which examines the long

term impact it could have on the economy, the health service,

individuals with the illness Let's talk now to Kirran Gill,

who was diagnosed with arthritis Robert Aggar, who ran

marathons before Olivia Belle, who is head

of external affairs And Dr Benjamin Ellis,

who is a consultant rheumatologist Welcome all of you. Bolivia, you are

putting out some statistics today because you want to raise awareness.

Among the statistics, over 8% of the NHS budget is going to be spent on

arthritis this year, more than 10 million people are living with it.

Those stats may surprise people? I think they do surprise people and

that is why we are running this campaign. We want to show the true

impact arthritis has on individuals, and on the rest of society. And

unless something changes in terms of awareness and understanding, we will

continue to lose out on the talent and the contribution of many people.

You were diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis six years ago. What impact

has it got on your life? I can't underestimate the impact arthritis

has had on my life, in all honesty. I was a teacher working full-time.

Due to arthritis I have had to give up my career. I have ended up

housebound and bedbound for more than 50% of the time. It has had a

huge impact on my relationships. My financial status. And I feel like I

am a prisoner in my own body, really. So described that? It is a

bit like having a migraine in all of my joints. Along with that, is also

a huge sense of fatigue. It is like a petrol gauge. If I were to say

that I start the day on the red, the light is already on, and that has a

huge impact on relationships. My friendships, for example. And also

concentration, memory. Robert, describe what it is like for you

living with arthritis? You used to run marathons. What is the impact

been on you? About five years ago I was planning to retire. I'd worked

for 42 years. I had put my arrangements in place. I was given

approval to actually pack up. I was playing golf. I was doing a lot of

physical activity. At the very same time I got these peculiar pains in

my groin and my lower back. I had never experienced anything like it

before. I went into the National Health Service system. I went to see

different people. And eventually it was diagnosed that I had got, my hip

had totally worn out. There was no cartilage left. It was just bone on

bone. The only thing they could offer me was a total hip

replacement. At the same time the consultant said to me, by the way,

I've got some other bad news. The other one will not last longer

either. I had been through nine months of not getting proper sleep,

not being able to walk around the park. I couldn't drive my car. I

pack up work and I was pretty much stuck indoors. It was a dreadful

time for me. Eventually I got my hip replaced. I managed to get back out

on the golf course. Within 18 months, sure enough the other one

give up as well. I went back into the system, spent another 18 months

waiting. Painful for you, expensive for the NHS. Exactly. Massively

expensive for the NHS. My operation cost about ?25,000. You are putting

these figures out today because you want to raise awareness. We have two

people here who were two of many. What do you hope to achieve with the

campaign? What practical differences? We are hoping that with

arthritis being recognised as a public health priority, more

information is accessible to people so that you can look after your

muscular skeletal health, but also find out information about the

different arthritis conditions that you might have. We also want more

support to our health care professionals who are doing a

fantastic job helping people. But actually, there are a variety of

conditions under the term of arthritis. It is a load of

information for GPs who are -- we're trying to retain. More

conversations. Looking after muscular and skeletal health, Doctor

Benjamin Ellis is there. Can people prevented? Is early diagnosis a good

thing? You can't completely prevent your chances of getting arthritis

but there is a lot to do you -- to reduce it. That includes being a

healthy body weight, being physically active, it includes not

smoking. Smoking is a cause of some arthritis. What are the symptoms

people should look for? The first thing you might notice if you are

developing arthritis is the beginning of pain, stiffness,

difficulty moving. Those are the symptoms. Difficulty doing everyday

tasks using your hands, reaching for things that previously had been

easy. When you start to get those symptoms, is it too late? Is it

going to get worse rather think you can do? Absolutely not. Early

diagnosis is important. It is important to get a clear diagnosis.

The treatment will be different. It will depend what sort of arthritis

you have. If you have osteoarthritis like Robert, physical activity,

losing weight can be important. If you have rumoured -- rheumatoid

arthritis, you will need specialist treatment to control the immune

system attacking your joints. One viewer says he is a retired GP. He

feels a section of GPs do not have empathy because it is such a common

condition and they are opposed to the use of strong painkillers like

opiates. They need to be more researchers and more research to

alleviate the suffering. How were you both treated when you initially

presented with symptoms? Particularly you, Karen, because you

were particularly young. Was arthritis even on your radar as

something that may be causing you problems? It was on my radar simply

because a family member had it. However, generally speaking, no, I

didn't think at the age of 27 that would even be something I would be

considering. Generally it took a very long time to get through the

system to get to see somebody who would test me for rheumatoid

arthritis, because I think there is still a supposition that rheumatoid

arthritis is something that happens as you get older, not when you are

younger. Kids can get it? Absolutely. How young? You can be

born with it. There are 12,000 young people living with a juvenile form

of arthritis. Is that genetic? There are. Benjamin will no far better

than I, but there are some inherited traits to some forms of arthritis,

yes. 12,000, that's devastating if you are affected. But it is a

relatively small number. As we are saying, it is a condition that

affects millions of people. Why is it not more talked about? A number

of reasons. We have talked about how it is dismissed as a natural part of

getting older. What is old age? Why is it acceptable to live in pain

when you are older? That is one thing. Also, I don't know whether it

is the same for you, but many people have told us they don't want to be

defined by their condition, they don't want to be the person always

saying, I can't do this. You don't talk about it necessarily as much as

you might do with other conditions. So really lifting the lid. That is

the whole reason for this campaign, it is actually to say that by having

a conversation about it, by talking about it, we can start recognising

the problem and addressing it. Caroline White got arthritis the

same age as you. She has got in touch. She has had it for 30 years.

She has battled non-with support from her GP, medication and surgery,

but it has now begun to have a major impact on her life. She was a

teacher but has to plan her life carefully, how close she can get,

how much standing room there will be etc. People don't realise the impact

it has, especially if you keep a cheerful face and try to continue.

Robert, do you feel like people around you understand the impact? At

the time I didn't feel that people understood the full impact it was

having on my way of life. It was affecting every aspect of my life at

the time. And I was sort of doing whatever I could to ameliorate it.

But the problem is it is a vicious circle. As soon as you get the

condition, and it can come on very quickly, my other hip came on. I

went to a Pilates class. I was trying to get my muscle tone back.