23/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Wednesday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,

A charity worker who helped expose the sexual exploitation

of vulnerable children in Rotherham talks to us exclusively

about the stress of a long-running investigation in her role and tells

us the focus should be on helping those still suffering.

I've had a couple of calls from people in the community

who this is still happening to their children and daughters

and just reaching out and asking for help and support.

We will bring you that full interview after the news.

Also this morning - Prince Harry tells the BBC he's very

glad he walked behind Princess Diana's coffin

at her funeral 20 years ago, but says he still can't

I think one of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact

that the people that were chasing her into the tunnel,

were the same people that were taking photographs

of her while she was still dying on the back seat of the car.

We'll have all the details, and also hear from Prince William.

Are you in your thirties, with a social media profile,

online shopping accounts and an internet bank account?

We'll find out how criminals could be trying to steal your identity.

We also want to hear from you if you've been verbally

or sexually harassed on public transport.

There's a suggestion this morning that one solution might be

Oppponents say that's just giving into the problem.

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

use the hashtag Victoria live and if you text, you will be charged

Princes William and Harry have described their bewilderment

when they encountered grieving crowds, on the day

Speaking to a BBC documentary marking 20 years

since the death of Princess Diana - they say walking behind her coffin

Here's our Royal Correspondent Nicholas Witchell.

It was the week when a nation mourned, and the monarchy

At its heart were two boys, William and Harry, then aged 15

and 12, grieving for the loss of their mother, but required

by their royal position to appear in public and help assuage

In the BBC documentary, William and Harry speak

of the numbness and confusion they felt when they were told

And, in Harry's case, it is clear there is still anger at the French

photographers who were pursuing Diana's speeding car in the moments

before the crash in the Alma Tunnel, in Paris.

I think one of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact

that the people who chased her into the tunnel were the same people

who were taking photographs of her while she was dying

We have been told that from people that know that it was the case.

She had quite a severe head injury, but she was still very much alive

Those people who caused the accident, instead of helping,

were taking photographs of her dying on the back seat.

And then those photographs made their way back to news desks.

William and Harry were in Balmoral when they heard the news in Paris.

They speak up in support of their grandmother for her efforts

"He tried to do his best for us", says Harry.

When they moved from Balmoral to London,

And it's clear that they found the experience bewildering,

with so many people sobbing, and wanting to touch them.

Of the decision to walk behind their mother's coffin,

both say it was a collective family decision and both say they felt

When you have something so traumatic as the death of your mother

when you are 15, as, very sadly, many people have experienced,

and no one wants to experience, it leaves you, you know,

it will either make or break you, and I wouldn't let it break me.

I wanted her to be proud of the person I would become.

I didn't want her worried, or her legacy to be that William

or Harry were completely and utterly devastated by it.

And all of her hard work, love and energy she put into us

when we were younger would go to waste.

They were children coping with their own grief

and the attention of a grieving nation, and who kept

going to honour their mother's memory.

We can speak to Royal Correspondent Sarah Campbell.

What was the main impression you get from the two princes?

I know you have watched the whole documentary. Yes, it is an hour and

a half, and Palace officials say it is the first and last time that

Princes Harry and William will talk in such detail about those seven

days. It is called Diana seven days, it starts when she dies, finishes at

the funeral. It gives an insight and other key players who were involved.

So the point at which they were told that she died. They were on holiday

in Balmoral with their father, with the Queen. Williams says that he was

completely numb and asked themselves the question, why me? In all the

run-up to the 20th anniversary of her death, we have heard very little

about Prince Charles in all of this, but Prince Harry does pay tribute to

his father in this documentary. He says it is one of the hardest things

you have to do is to tell your children that the other parent has

died. He was there for us, he was the one of two left, and he tried to

do his best and to make sure we were protected and looked after. Going

back 20 years, you will remember there was a lot of bad feeling

towards the Queen and the Royal family, because they kept the boys

in Balmoral. There was clamour in London folk them to be brought back

to London, and on this volume is absolutely clear that that was the

right decision for them at the time. He talked about how the Queen, his

grandmother, tried to protect them. She took the newspapers away every

day. Williams said there were no smartphones, thankfully we have the

privacy to mourn. We had no idea that the reaction to her death would

be so huge. There were other insights on the Queen from others

involved in this documentary, Tony Blair speaking. He was saying that

she was resistant to anything that seemed to look false, there would

look like a PR event. Diana's elder sister said the Queen absolutely did

the right thing to let the boys get over the shock in the bosom of their

family. William again talks about the fact that she felt torn, the

Queen felt torn between being their grandmother, the grandmother of

William and Harry, and her role as Queen. Clearly a very very difficult

time for them all. Sarah, thank you. Annita McVeigh is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary Police have used tear gas to

disperse protesters outside a rally by President in Arizona. Media

reports said some anti-Trump protesters had thrown bottles at

police. Footage shows demonstrators

being driven backwards. During the rally, the President

attacked media coverage of his response to violent

disturbances in Charlottesville This programme has learned that

a long running investigation into a charity worker who helped

expose the child sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham

is to be examined by Jayne Senior has been investigated

by Rotherham Council for a year, Ms Senior denies any wrongdoing

and says it's a distraction from helping vulnerable young people

in the town. I do not receive money

for doing interviews. The only interview that I received

a small amount of money for I don't and have not

done this for money. Somebody told them that I was

earning a significant amount The government will today vow to end

what it calls the "direct jurisdiction" of the European Court

of Justice in the UK after Brexit. A paper being published will insist

such an arrangement would be "neither necessary nor appropriate"

once Britain has left the European Union -

adding there are other ways But critics say European judges

could retain some influence. Adam Fleming is in Brussels. A lot

of discussion around the use of the word direct, the government saying

it will end the direct jurisdiction of the ECJ. Yes, and I am actually

in Luxembourg, the home of the European Court of Justice. This

government paper will be all about how do you solve disputes that arise

between the UK and the EU, either around the Brexit deal signed, or

any future free trade partnership deal signed between the two sides?

And crucially the British government does not want any dispute mechanism

to include the European Court of Justice. The Prime Minister when she

has talked about this issue has said she wants to end the jurisdiction of

the ECJ. Now ministers talk about ending direct jurisdiction. People

will be combing through this paper when published at lunchtime for any

hint of a climb-down, a change or a softening or reinterpretation of the

government's position. One justice minister talked about how the fact

that the UK will be keeping half an eye on what the UK does in future.

What does that mean in practical, legal and political terms? We also

know that the EU still sees a role for this place after Brexit,

especially on the issue of scrutinising and guaranteeing the

rights of EU citizens who are still living in the UK after the UK leaves

in March 20 19. Thank you very much, Adam Fleming.

Two men suspected to be behind last week's terror attacks in and around

Barcelona have been detained on terror charges -

Another man has been released on bail,

Earlier, the court in Madrid heard the group had intended to blow up

Danish police have identified a headless torso found south

of Copenhagen as the missing Swedish journalist, Kim Wall.

The authorities believe she died on board a homemade submarine.

The craft's inventor, Peter Madsen, has been accused

Identity theft is reaching "epidemic levels", with almost 500 cases a day

according to a leading fraud prevention organisation.

CIFAS says there were nearly 90,000 cases

in the first six months of this year - a 5% rise.

ID fraudsters steal personal information before using it to apply

A 14-year-old boy has been arrested for dancing the Macarena in a busy

A video of the teenager's performance was posted on twitter

and quickly went viral - but now he's been accused

It is not clear if he will be formally charged

A Labour frontbencher has said women only train carriages could combat

the rise in sexual offences on public transport. Shadow Prime

minister Chris Williamson said it would be worth consulting on the

policy, after such crimes doubled in the past year.

Jeremy Corbyn first suggested the policy during his leadership

election campaign in 2015. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30. Lots of people getting in touch with

us about identity theft. Philip Dunne Twitter says people need to

wake up to the fact that their identity can be stolen. Keep your

comments coming. Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and If you text, you will be charged England's women's rugby team are

back in another World Cup final. It really has been a great

summer for women's sport - off the back of the success

of the cricketers, England's women are now gearing up for another

Rugby World Cup final. The two sides shared a penalty

a piece in the first half before prop Sarah Bern drove over

for the first try of the night. An opportunistic score at the death

from Megan Jones putting England into their fifth World Cup final

in a row - and a repeat of the showpiece from

2002, 2006 and 2010. Obviously I enjoyed most get the win

and we set out to get to a World Cup final and we have certainly done

that. We will enjoy the performance tonight. We have said all along the

way that you have do enjoy the winds, those little winds, and

tonight we have that. Tomorrow it will be back to square one. Recover,

review and move on for that massive game on Saturday. The final takes

place at 7:45pm in Belfast, which will be brilliant, I'm sure. And

lots of hype ahead of the big fight in Vegas, what else would we expect

this weekend? It's hard to take your eyes off

of what's been unfolding ahead Connor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather

arrived in Las Vegas was working the crowds

with lots of high fives and tonnes of support for the Irishman

but the the fight is yet to be a sell out - about seven thousand

left, the cheapest costing In their last press conference later

today of course we'll expect more Mayweather is expected to win

and he's ready to get back in the ring and give

fans more excitement. It is all about giving the fans what

they want to see. I have been around the sports are so many years, and

this is the last one. Conor McGregor can talk the talk, can he walk the

walk? We will have to wait to see, that is what makes this fight and

this matchup so intriguing. I have been off two years, it feels like I

have lost a few steps, so we would just see.

And before I go, worth mentioning Celtic they've

booked their place in tomorrow's draw for the Group Stages

Even thought they lost the second leg 4-3

they won the play-off tie 8-4 overall - a great

They'll be amongst the bottom seeds for the draw aiming to reach

the knockouts for the first time since 2012

It is now three years since the Jay Report

revealed the horrific scale of sexual exploitation of children

in the South Yorkshire town of Rotherham.

Over the course of 15 years, more than 1,400 children,

some as young as 11, were subjected to trafficking,

rape and torture by gangs of men who were predominantly of Pakistani

origin, while the police and authorities failed to act.

The report was seen by many as a watershed moment

in changing how authorities would deal with abuse.

The BBC's social affairs correspondent, Alison Holt, has

reported many times on the Rotherham grooming scandal, and has now

returned to the town for a special report for this programme.

Before we talk to Alison, I should warn you that you may find

the details of her film upsetting and it's not suitable if you have

Well, three years ago this week, when the scandal first emerged, the

stories we were hearing were about children ignored, professionals who

tried to warn about what was going on being sidelined, and information

not being shared. There has been progress. But worryingly, what I

found was there were still cases which seemed to show how difficult

it is to change some deep-rooted attitudes.

They'd kidnapped her, they'd held her hostage,

they'd made her drug-run, gun-run, anything.

Rotherham in South Yorkshire is a town trying to emerge

They manipulated for their own benefit, and then

mentally and physically and sexually abused her.

It's three years since Rotherham found itself at the heart

of one of Britain's biggest child-abuse scandals.

More than 1400 children sexually exploited by

The authorities, who'd ignored the problem, promised change.

There are people who have been perpetrated against,

who think they have reported it, and it's not been dealt with,

it's just been put away in a drawer and left.

The people of South Yorkshire need proper protection,

and we need to know that mistakes from the past have been learned.

And for the first time, the whistle-blower who helped expose

the abuse tells of the treatment that has torn her life apart.

Here we are, nearly three years on, and I feel, erm...

more vilified than some of the perpetrators in Rotherham.

They were raped by multiple perpetrators, they were trafficked

to other towns and cities in the North of England,

they were abducted, beaten and intimidated.

In 2014, a report by Professor Alexis Jay exposed

the failure by the council and police in Rotherham

to tackle the gangs of men of largely Pakistani heritage

This is when she were only a few month old...

There are some families for whom the lifelong cost

of a problem ignored is only now becoming clear.

As a tiny baby, her mother, unable to cope, gave her to Julie

Everybody liked Gemma, she mixed with anybody,

we just thought she were a normal kid, laughing and joking,

This is the first time the couple have talked about their foster

daughter and the difficulties that started at an early age.

She was a very troubled and a child that you couldn't reason with,

a child that no matter what you said to her, she tried to get attention,

She were doing really stupid things, putting herself in danger,

to the point where she was going to throw herself off

At 11, Gemma was moved to a children's home,

taken into care by Rotherham Council.

Now closed, this is one of the places where she was preyed

on by men who claimed to be her boyfriend.

It sounds like they plied her with money, goods, then drugs.

And once they got hold of you with drugs, then every bit

of your money that you get isn't your money, so you're owing

to them all the time, and that is how it was.

The incidents that she told me of, they kidnapped her,

they'd held her hostage, they'd made her drug-run,

On the streets of Rotherham, she was increasingly trapped

Pregnant at 16, her baby was taken into care.

She did try to get help from the authorities but got nowhere.

I knew that she was on the game, she was prostituting in Sheffield.

And I know that, with her arms, that she was on drugs.

And I did say to her, Gemma, I will be on a phone call

and I will be hearing either a punter's got hold of you or you're

But when Professor Jay told the world about the abuse

in Rotherham, for the first time Gemma began to tell her

foster parents about what had happened to her.

"I am one of them girls, I am one of them that have been

I asked her why didn't she speak to me beforehand

She says, "I'd informed the police, the social services knew about it,

why should I come and upset you, Mum?"

"Why should I have trouble at your door?"

She began to talk to the National Crime Agency

about what happened to her as a child, but now in her 30s,

she was still preyed on by some of the same abusers.

When her foster parents were also threatened, they called 999.

The perpetrators that had got Gemma hooked on drugs,

lending her money, manipulating her, were coming to the door,

These were all logged down, took crime incident numbers.

Police didn't come on two occasions, they came on one.

All after the publicity of that exploitation?

All after the promises that things would change.

And like she felt, like I felt, that she wasn't listened to.

South Yorkshire Police say they haven't been able to identify

the specific incidents but will work with Gemma's family.

Jayne Senior first met Gemma when she was a teenager.

Then, she was manager of Risky Business, a charity

She couldn't protect herself, they had a full hold on her,

you know, as they did lots of the children

These days, she works for a small charity called Swinton Lock.

A community activity centre, it also provides support

January this year, the phone rang at work, and when I answered it,

a little voice says, "Can you remember me?"

Like others, Gemma needed support - the sort of call Jayne

It's still happening, you know, and I have had a couple of calls

from people in the community who this is still happening to their

children or their daughters, just reaching out and asking

for help and support, because they're just feeling

like parents did ten year ago, five year ago, two year ago -

frightened, worried, upset, lonely, isolated.

Abuse survivors also give information like names,

The charity was sending this to the council,

expecting it to be passed on to the police.

Mike Fowler is on the Swinton Lock management committee.

Well, the intelligence builds up a picture,

and although small pieces of it might not be the right kind

of information that can be turned into evidence,

there could be a string of those that would form, you know,

the full jigsaw puzzle, and they would be able

The charity claims some of the information they sent in was not

There are people who have been perpetrated against,

who think they have reported it and it's not been dealt with,

it's just been put away in a drawer and left.

And that information is a mixture of historical information

from the victims and current information as well.

The current information is quite appalling, actually.

So information that could potentially stop crimes

Rotherham Council denied this, saying its records show information

was passed to the NCA in a timely way and in line with

But this is not the only battle with the council.

Jayne Senior, who received an MBE from the Queen for her work,

helped expose the abuse that was ignored for

For 12 months now, she's been under investigation by Rotherham Council

after a complaint by a number of abuse survivors.

The first she heard of it was when a journalist called.

I were quite shocked, actually, and I think if a complaint's

received and then investigated, I don't have a problem with that,

but I shouldn't have to find out off a journalist.

Have you ever been given clear details about what you're

You've never had point one, point two...

She believes she is accused of making money from media

appearances and inappropriately sharing confidential information.

Last November, council officials interviewed her for five hours.

I were asked lots of questions about how much money I'd earned.

I was asked questions about who I was sharing information

with, who I'd passed that information on, had I got people's

One of the accusations is that you've made lots of money

from doing interviews, from writing a book,

from talking about what's happened in Rotherham.

I do not receive money for doing interviews.

The only interview that I received a small amount of money for has

I don't and have not done this for money.

Somebody told them that I was earning a significant

amount of money - well, I'm not.

Council officials arrived at the Swinton Lock

When they came through the door and introduced themselves.

About seven officials were met by the charity's

She was told it was a monitoring visit and was quickly asked

They were looking for specific information, particularly Jayne's,

relating to her salary, and to her pay.

Because I keep my files in a very tight order,

everything is popped away, and when I came back in,

there were particular documents left out.

We have policies and procedures here to deal with allegations.

They've deliberately bypassed those, even when we've asked them to stop.

It just seems as though, you know, they want to attack Jayne's

character and discredit the work she's done.

Given Rotherham's history, the council has to make sure it

investigates all complaints thoroughly, but the question

being raised here is about the length of time it's taken.

I've seen murder inquiries wrapped up well before then.

It's just appalling, the way we've been treated.

We are a small charity, we are not major criminals.

Rotherham Council says it has a duty to robustly and fairly

consider complaints, it's appointed independent

investigators, and can't comment further.

But Jayne Senior says the year-long investigation has taken its toll.

Here we are, nearly three years on, and I feel more vilified than some

That is how you feel at the moment, you feel vilified?

These have been difficult years for Rotherham,

but there have also been significant successes, gaining some justice

For many of these young women, it completely shattered their lives.

At three major trials, 19 people involved in exploiting

children in the town were given long jail terms.

The names of the ring leaders were very familiar to Dr Angie Heal.

They were included in the report she wrote for South Yorkshire Police

in the early 2000s which was sent to senior officers.

I was detailing some of the cases that were taking place,

I was making it very, very clear that these were organised

criminals that were abusing children in Rotherham and elsewhere

There are 88 ongoing investigations into how police officers

handled these cases, but Dr Heal wants to know why,

still, none of the highest ranking officers have had to account

We've had at least 1,400 children over a 13-year

period, probably much more, sexually exploited.

We've now had, in the past 18 months, at least 19 offenders

convicted and sentenced to nearly 300 years between them.

And yet we have not had the senior command team properly investigated

for what went wrong on their watch, during that time.

Certainly, for at least one of those 1,400, sucked

into a violent world as a child, too little seems to have changed.

Gemma Roberts was still talking to the National Crime Agency,

but her family says she struggled to cope with the memories.

She went into drugs more severely, because she tried to blank

It was upsetting her, she was wetting the bed,

In January, she was living in supported housing here in Rotherham.

She'd been involved with these guys, with drugs and running with drugs,

and got her that deep into it that, for whatever reason,

there's no reason, she got raped by six Asian men.

Nearly a month later, the police still hadn't

Soon after, she was found dead from a morphine overdose.

Unable to escape her abusers, her death a tragic symbol

of the importance of learning from the past.

They were still there from the care system,

still there until she died at 35, and they are still there now,

These, I wouldn't call them men, these perpetrators

And terribly sad story, Gemma's story, and I should say both South

Yorkshire Police and Rotherham council have apologised for past

failings, and in Gemma's case, they send their condolences and say they

are saddened by the tragic death. South Yorkshire Police say there are

many crimes, which are family mentioned, and that all reported

incidents involving Gemma had been thoroughly investigated and

finalised and they take all incidences involving guns and

firearms extremely seriously. In terms of the concerns raised by Dr

Heal, South Yorkshire Police turn to a report written for the crime and

Police Commissioner, saying that significant lessons had been learned

and improvements made. That is also worth saying that the National Crime

Agency, which deals with most of the historic cases of abuse, says that

in all information it is satisfied that all information relevant to its

investigations have been shared with it. Moving on to Jane senior's case,

since we contacted the council, she has now received details, written

details of the accusations that she faces. We have spoken to a survivor

of abuse who did not want to take part in the programme at this time.

I want to emphasise something on this, which I think is really

important, and that is that after all that happened in rather and in

other places, it is vital, it is essential that people who are facing

exploitation and abuse feel able to complain and know that it will be

investigated thoroughly. That is not whether concerns lie -- lie here.

The investigators will have to weigh up the allegations made and decide

the right and wrong is of that. That is their job. But what we are

looking at here is the process, and we now know that the local

government, or we understand that the local government ombudsman will

be looking at the handling of Jane Senior's case, the way in which

Rotherham council has dealt with it. Now, rather is certainly not the

only place where they have had problems with exploitation. We have

had problems in Rochdale. Most recently in Newcastle where 19

people were convicted about ten days ago. So I think that underlines the

significance of a problem across the country but also the difficulties of

tackling it. Thank you ever so much for doing that film for us and we

will be talking about this later on. And if you have any concerns

about what we've just covered, there's more information

on the BBC Action Line - Calls are free and are open 24-hours

a day, and there's a full list of support and organisations

available at bbc.co.uk/actionline. Identity fraud has reached almost

epidemic proportions in the UK, with almost 500 cases

reported every day. Analysts say four in five cases

occur in cyber space. Protesters and police clash outside

a Trump rally in Arizona. We'll be speaking to one

of the protesters and a young Republican who attended the US

President's speech. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. Princes William and Harry have

described their bewilderment when they encountered

grieving crowds, on the day Speaking to a BBC

documentary marking 20 years since the death of Princess Diana -

they say walking behind her coffin Harry had previously said walking

behind her coffin aged 12 was something no child "should be

asked to do". the government will today vowed to

end what it calls the direct jurisdiction of the European Court

of Justice in the UK after Brexit. A paper being published will insist

such an arrangement would be "neither necessary nor appropriate"

once Britain has left the European Union -

adding there are other ways But critics say European judges

could retain some influence. Identity theft is reaching "epidemic

levels", with almost 500 cases a day according to a leading

fraud prevention organisation. CIFAS says there were

nearly 90,000 cases in the first six months

of this year - a 5% rise. ID fraudsters steal personal

information before using it to apply That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.00am. Here's some sport now

with Leah Boleto. England will be planning to yet

another women's rugby World Cup final, their fifth in a row. They

only needed two tries in a tense semifinal with France. They won

20-3, and will defend their title against New Zealand in Belfast on

Saturday. The countdown and chaos has started ahead of this week and's

fight between Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor. Both men have

alighted Las Vegas ahead of their showdown in the early hours of

Sunday morning. Celtic are through to the group stages of the Champions

League. They got past Astana 8-4/2 legs. Liverpool could join them in

tomorrow's draw, they play Hoffenheim tonight, leading 2-1 from

their first leg, and England's key players are through to the

semifinals of the Euro hockey finals. The men could join them if

they beat Ireland this afternoon. President Trump has again lashed out

at what he calls "fake news", He said the media had

misrepresented his response to the violence at a far-right

rally in Virgina, which Anti-Trump protesters who had

gathered outside the rally clashed with police after the event had

finished. Release reportedly deployed tear gas, after some of the

protesters threw some bottles and rocks.

During his 80-minute speech, President Trump went on to read out

part of a speech he had given a few hours after the Charlottesville

violence, but he left out the controversial claim that "both

This is what he had to say about the media's coverage.

But the point is that those were three different, there were two

statement and one news conference. The words were perfect, they only

take out anything they can think of, and for the most part all they do is

complain. But they don't put on those words, and they don't put on

me saying those words. The media can attack me, but where I draw the line

is when they attack you, which is what they do. When they attack the

decency of our supporters. CHEERING These are truly dishonest people,

and not all of them, not all of them, you have some very good

reporters, you have some very fair journalists, but for the most part,

honestly, these are really, really dishonest people, and they are bad

people, and I really think they don't like our country, I really

believe that. And I don't believe there are going to change, and

that's why I do this. If they would change, I would never say it. The

only people giving a platform to these hate groups is the media is

itself, and the fake news. CHEERING Earlier, I spoke to Ryan Norton,

who protested outside the rally. And Austin Smith, treasurer

of Arizona Young Republicans, who attended

President Trump's speech. Donald Trump was warm with his

welcome here in the great state of Arizona. It was very high energy.

There was over, I think, 19,000 people came to this rally, as some

people may not know that Donald Trump started his presidential

campaign in Arizona, so it felt like a welcome home party for him. So it

was a really, really good rally. Ryan, you were on the outside,

clearly a different perspective you. You were demonstrating against

Donald Trump? Yes. Explain why. Thanks for having me. I think as

Americans we have a right to speak up, a responsibility, even, when we

see things we don't agree with in government, especially at the level

of the president. And what we have seen over the last seven months, to

millions of Oscar Ouma is just unacceptable. What was the mood like

on the streets, just explain the people who are watching? It was

exuberant. It was exciting, it was energetic, it was electric. People

were enthusiastic, people were energised. There was a lot of

camaraderie. People were just excited to know that in a state like

Arizona, that is very conservative, they weren't alone. And in that

setting it felt great to be able to stand up and say I don't agree with

any of this. Austin Connelly do you object to the anti-Trump protests

that were taking place outside of the hall where you work? Absolutely

not. I may disagree with why they are protesting but I fully support

their right to protest, as an American, and as a conservative, I

wholeheartedly agree with the right to demonstration, the first

Amendment and free speech. That's what makes this a special place.

Even as when President Obama was president, I know that a lot of

people on my side would demonstrate against President Obama, and that

was right to do that, so the opposition, the more progressive

side in politics, they have that same absolute God-given right here

in Arizona and the rest of the. Many people who watched this address by

Donald Trump said it was more like a campaign rally than a presidential

speech. Is that what it felt like inside the hall? I mean, he was

criticising the media for a lot of his speech. It did feel like a

campaign rally, but that's who Donald Trump is. He is not a very

typical president, as we have seen in the last eight months, he is

doing something a little bit different. I do think that those

rallies do help him to push his agenda forward. He says he is with

us, the people, and that is how he continues to move his messaging, and

to stay in June with the heartbeat of the American people, and that

Israeli what his rally was like on the inside, as you can see when he

goes to West Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio and as though similar

type of rallies. That is what Donald Trump does and how he moves his

agenda forward to get the American people behind it. Similarly Ronald

Reagan would do the same thing, when he was president, he would address

the American people, to go to Congress and to talk to their

representatives to get a conservative agenda moving. Austin,

let me bring in Ryan, he is smiling and raising his eyebrows, by all

means speak to Austin. Well, no, I understand what he is saying and my

only issue with it is what we have seen of Donald Trump is that he is

much more of a candidate. He is not a president. Austin talks about

pushing his agenda forward, but what has that achieved? I mean, there has

been no major legislation passed, and by all accounts any legislative

agenda he has has failed, thus far. And that's when he is in control of

both houses of Congress. He comes to these rallies, I personally think,

because he gets tired of people outside of the echo chamber

questioning him. And I think he is a man that has got such a fragile ego

that he needs that echo chamber in order to recharge as batteries, so

that he can continue on. How would you respond to that, Austin?

I would say President Obama did the exact same thing when he was

president. He did it, too. I think it is a good idea for any president

to have rallies, to get back towards the people, to get behind what the

American people want for an agenda, what Donald Trump ran on. He said he

is not going to be a typical president. I would encourage more of

it. It is like a politician appearing in a town hall. It is the

same sort of thing. Go-ahead, Ryan. The whole thing with the echo

chambers and him needing to hear praise all the time, it's kind of

bizarre that we are at a point where... He lied to you guys inside

tonight. What did he lie about? If you were a protest in, how do you

know what he lied about? I watched it when I came home. White What

specifically did he lie about? He repeated his statement about

Charlottesville where he talked about people on both sides. He

omitted that entire portion of his statement when he was saying it back

to everybody. The main part of his speech that he got so much grief

for, he'll -- completely omitted it. Austen, was he right to do that? He

repeated the speech he made after the event in Charlottesville where

one woman was killed when a car was driven into a crowd of

anti-far-right protestors. He said at the time both sides were to blame

for that. He admitted that. -- he omitted that from his speech last

night. Was that the right thing to do? No, I don't think it was the

right thing to do. I am part of the Conservative group that was very

disappointed in Donald Trump that he had to repeat himself multiple times

when he had the opportunity, or must they slam dunk scenario, to diminish

both sides for their actions. I do think it is an opportunity for a

Donald Trump to learn from this situation, that he has to move

forward from something like this. Unfortunately, I hope we never see

these types of acts again. It may happen. President has unique

opportunity to make sure that a situation like this, if it happens

again, he doesn't make the same type of mistake.

Identity theft is reaching "epidemic levels", according

to a fraud prevention group, with personal details being stolen

People in their 30s are now most likely to be targeted by fraudsters,

who often use the data to apply for loans and store cards.

More than half of all fraud recorded by the data organisation

There are fears that police are struggling to cope

with the scale of this crime, and there's a suggestion today

they might need help from expert volunteers with expert IT skills.

Let's speak now to David Kirk, who is the chairman

of the Fraud Advisory Panel, who says the police response to cyber

Alexander Hitchcock from the independent think

tank Reform, whose report out today says the police need

to recruit 12,000 volunteers in order to tackle the issue.

From Worcester we have Jacqui Ryland, a fitness

and glamour model who ended up being threatened after her

And from Durham we have Detective Constable Tony Murray

from Durham Constabulary's fraud investigation department,

which is one of the forces boosting its fraud and cyber crime teams.

I want to start with you, Jackie. You have had your identity stolen

online. Explain briefly what happened? Basically, I have got a

really high social media following. You name it, I have had fake

profiles put on there. The really serious one was last year. Someone

used my pictures to sell to strangers to arrange what he called

meetings. I would never turn up. They were based in America or

Canada. The people he had conned the money out of, came after me. They

threaten my children. They threatened me. The police couldn't

help me at all. Were they are unwilling or unable? In their view

they said because it was all happening on Twitter and Gmail, they

find it extremely difficult to cooperate with the social media

channels. So Twitter they can't cooperate with. They said the

e-mails were in broken English, so they were probably from abroad. They

couldn't do anything about that. Detective car or Tony Murray, that

is an extreme example of identity theft being stolen. What are the

more common examples? Fraud hurts, that is what comes across there. The

more common examples are that people every day have their precious

personal data stolen. That could be their addresses, their date of

birth, their banking details. It is precious to us, but it is very

valuable to fraudsters. When they get it, it enables other fraud. When

people call, when people e-mail, when people text us, they can

socially engineer because they already know us. You can buy

someone's identity on the dark web for as little as 4p. It is important

we protect ourselves. If on Twitter or Facebook, we need to protect our

date of birth. Is there any need to tell everyone on Facebook what our

date of birth is, so we can say happy birthday? If you have not got

your privacy settings set correctly, that could advertise the date of

birth to anyone. Once they have got that information, what are they then

using that information to do? They are using that information to take

out loans, to take out cards. They are using that information so that

when people ring us or e-mail people, they can know them. They can

say, I'm your bank. I know your name, I know your account number.

They can pretend to be the bank. They can use technology to coincide.

They can spoof caller ID to make it look like a genuine number on the

telephone. They can pretend to be us and full other people and commit

fraud, and therefore expose us do a risk of loss and others, and fund

serious crime. Or they can pretend to be others and know us. It puts us

all in danger of risk and fraud and losing money. Fraud really hurts.

David, you have said the police response is inadequate. Why do you

think that? Well, because there is such a huge epidemic of fraud in

this area, that it needs more resource to deal with it. The

problem the police have is that this is all entirely new. It has been new

over the last ten or so years. It is a new type of fraud. It is a kind of

activity which the police have got to get up to speed with and it needs

a lot of resource. Before I bring you in, Alex, do you think,

detective cost of a lorry, that police have the digital skills to

deal with this kind of crime? -- detective cost of Murray. I think we

can do more. We can all improve. In Durham there is a programme to

increase the skills in relation to digital investigation so we can

secure and preserve the evidence better. We should all look to

improve. But to do that, it is fairly new. It is dynamic. But we

need to all recognise and work together, all sectors, the public,

the voluntary sector, the private sector. Because together we are

better. There are people with skill sets and if those people are

available, the police service, you can volunteer for the police

service, for the cybercrime -- cyber crime unit. They are very skilled.

Let's talk about that. Alex, you are suggesting effectively 12,000

digital volunteers to help police? Yes, fraud is part of a wider crime.

47% of crime is done online today. The police need the skills to

address this new threat. Part of this is using volunteers who are

experts. Police use special constables currently. Of 13,000,

only 40 Wrighty experts. We are calling for a radical increase in

the number of these experts who can help forces, who can write

programmes, and hopefully that is a better offer for the police forces

trying to fight the crime and also people who are victims. David, is

this the answer? Aren't IT experts could -- going to be busy going to

work instead of volunteering? I think it is a nice idea. It is

something that, as Alex mentions, a special constable problem has been

very effective. The problem with trying to line up 12,000 volunteers

is you will have a security issue. You will want to know who these

people are and whether they are using this as an opportunity to get

behind the action. And cause more trouble. It is a nice idea and it

should be pursued. But it will take some care to set it up. Tony Murray,

does that sound sensible to you? What Alex touches on is a brilliant

idea. That means we need more volunteers, we need people to engage

across all sectors, because together we can be better. What we need to do

is know what the message is. If we had more people... Durham police

have trade volunteers -- train volunteers. They are giving the

elderly tips about the five key enablers of fraud. They are advising

them to keep them safe. That's what I wanted to get into, if I can.

Isn't this just about us all learning to be more Internet savvy

and not giving out those details, your birthday etc? That is a

critical starting point. In 2013, the government watchdog said 80% of

fraud online can be prevented through both ensuring that computers

don't leave passwords and things like that, and people don't give

them away. There is sophisticated fraud happening that does need

police to be on top of it, to know what is going on. The dark web is an

anonymous Internet server. It is very difficult to track down where

people are coming from and what they are doing. That is where we find

these details dumped for people to pick up and use the devastating

ends. Yes, I quite agree with that. It is

a difficult area to get into and to fight. It's a massive area that --

of fraud that is going on and we need to be educated. I need to be

educated on how to change my password, for example. We all do.

Jackie, do you think you were a bit naive? It is really difficult. With

my job there are a lot of pictures online. I don't post might kids

online any more, purely because I don't want the pictures being used.

I think the likes of Twitter and Instagram need to peak -- make it so

that you only have one account. It would be easier to track these

people down who are cat fishing. Thank you all for speaking to us

today. I'm grateful for your time. Now the

weather. It has been a pretty wet night

across Northern Ireland and Scotland. We have seen some

flooding. Still this morning we have a weather front draped across parts

of Scotland. Northern parts of England as well. Gradually that

Wiltshire North and East through the day. We have some sunshine to look

forward to. Much of the brighter conditions before the south and west

you are. You can see the thicker cloud across northern part of the

British Isles. And some nice breaks for the South allowing some sunny

spells to come through. That is where we are this morning. The rain

band heavy at times, perhaps thundery. Gradually tracking its way

north. Behind it, you can look forward to sunny spells. It will be

breezy along coastal areas in the West, showers likely in Northern

Ireland. For Devon and Cornwall, a lot of dry weather. Sunshine coming

through the cloud. Still feeling humoured across East Anglia and the

south-east. Temperatures around 22 Celsius. Cloudy for the Midlands.

Writer spells in Western Scotland. We are likely to see showers in

Northern Ireland. For a Western Scotland, a better end to the day.

Some brightness coming through before sunset. Through tonight, the

rain band will clear north and east. Behind it, a fairly quiet night.

Clear skies. We will start to see more showers in Northern Ireland.

Parts of Wales and the south-west. Feeling less muggy than last night,

with temperatures ranging between 12 and 14 Celsius. Tomorrow, a better

day for all of us. Some sunny spells but the risk of some showers the

further north and west you are. Further south, high-pressure

bringing a fine day. Highs 17 to 22 Celsius. As we head towards the end

of the week, the weather still pretty decent. A lot of dry weather.

The best of the brightness always across parts of the South and east.

Further north and west more cloud and sunny spells, rain in Northern

Ireland and parts of Scotland. As we head towards the weekend, a few

showers on Saturday. Plenty of usable weather. Sunny spells. Much

of the showers across parts of the north and west. Sunday is looking

drier and brighter. The foster family of a young woman

who was abused by gangs as a child in Rotherham tell us exclusively

about the abuse she suffered and how the perpetrators

are still at large. They were still there from the care

system, until when she died at 35, and they are still there now. Out on

the streets, I won't call them men, these perpetrators are still out

there. We'll be looking at how much really

has changed in Rotherham Should the government end of the

European Court of Justice's direct jurisdiction over UK law? We would

discuss how this could affect the EU as well as our lives. The first

legal sale of rhino horn is due to be held in South Africa today. The

breeder holding the auction says it is the best way to save the

Endangered Species Act but conservationists say it will push

them towards extinction. We will be speaking to both sides of the

argument. Good morning, it is one minute past

10am. Let's get the news with a Anita. Valli

Princes William and Harry have described their bewilderment

when they encountered grieving crowds, on the day

Speaking to a BBC documentary marking 20 years

since the death of Princess Diana - they say walking behind her coffin

police have used tear gas to disperse outside a rally in Arizona.

Media said some anti-Trump protesters had thrown bottles at

police. Footage shows some protest is being pushed backwards. President

Trump attack media reports of the disruption in Charlottesville,

calling it dishonest. This programme has learned that

a long running investigation into a charity worker who helped

expose the child sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham is to be

examined by the Local Government Jayne Senior has been investigated

by Rotherham Council for a year, Ms Senior denies any wrongdoing

and says it's a distraction from helping vulnerable young people

in the town. I do not receive money

for doing interviews. The only interview that I received

a small amount of money for I don't and have not

done this for money. Somebody told them that I was

earning a significant amount The government will today vow to end

what it calls the "direct jurisdiction" of the European Court

of Justice in the UK after Brexit. A paper being published will insist

such an arrangement would be "neither necessary nor appropriate"

once Britain has left the European Union -

adding there are other ways But critics say European judges

could retain some influence. Identity theft is reaching

"epidemic levels", according to a leading

fraud prevention organisation. CIFAS says there were

nearly 90,000 cases in the first six months

of this year - a 5% rise. ID fraudsters steal personal

information before using it to apply Danish police have identified

a headless torso found south of Copenhagen as the missing Swedish

journalist, Kim Wall. The authorities believe she died

on board a homemade submarine. The craft's inventor,

Peter Madsen, has been accused Lot of you getting in touch about

identity theft. Jim on Twitter said I had my bank account stolen and

cleaned out. I tracked down the woman, they said ticket to my bank.

Why fraud volunteers? There was a suggestion may be 12,000 volunteers

could help the police. She says there should be professionals

employed and paid for by Facebook, Google, Twitter and the banks. To

continue to get in touch with us, using the hashtag Victoria Line Tube

is if you text, do remember you will be charged at the standard network

rate. Now some sport with Leo. England will play New Zealand in the

final of the women's Rugby World Cup after a tense semifinal over France

was that the final takes place in Belfast where Katherine Downes is

for us. A fifth World Cup final offer England, this is incredible,

isn't it? It is, a fifth World Cup final but this is the final everyone

in the women's game was hoping for, the two best teams in the world,

England and New Zealand going head-to-head for that title here in

Belfast on Saturday. 20-3 the final score in that semifinal against

France for England, which makes it sound one-sided but it certainly

wasn't. England only one it really because of a watertight defence.

They had to make 50 tackles in the first 15 minutes alone, just give

you an idea of what a bruising encounter it was. In fact, it was

the strength of the England defence that well France down. That gave

England the opportunity just take their chances, though they were very

few and far between. That's Sarah Bernd Storck you can see at the

moment only the real team effort. The whole pack pushing her over the

line. Meg Jones's try at the final whistle was just a quick piece of

opportunities, but 20-3, they are through to the final, and that means

captain Sarah Hunter can finally start thinking perhaps about

back-to-back World Cup wins. Obviously our job was to get here

and get the win, and we set out to get to a World Cup final and we have

certainly done that. I think we will enjoy the performance tonight. We

have said all along the way that you have two enjoy those little wins and

the we have done that and tomorrow it will be back to square one.

Recover, review and move on for that matter game on Saturday. So a tough,

bruising encounter for England. In contrast, a Delhi winter there --

fairly easy win for their opponents on Saturday, New Zealand, 45-12

against the USA, running in seven tries on the way. England now have

the patch themselves up, recover and look ahead to Saturday because it

will be quite a final. Also today, Conor McGregor and Floyd

Mayweather have arrived in Las Vegas ahead of their fight in the early

hours of Sunday morning, UK time. McGregor was working the crowd with

tonnes of support for the Irishman. The fight is yet to be a sell-out. A

few thousand left, with the cheapest costing around ?400. Mayweather says

he wants to give the fans more excitement. It is all about giving

the fans what they want to see. I have been around the sport for so

many years, and this is the last one. Conor can talk the talk, can he

walk the walk? We will have to wait to see, that is what makes this

fight and matchup so intriguing. I have been off for two years, they

feel like I have lost a few steps, so we would see. Info book of Celtic

have booked their place in tomorrow's offer the group stages of

the Champions League, even though they lost the second leg 4-3, they

won the play-off tie 8-4 overall. They will be amongst the bottom

seeds of the draw aiming to reach the knockout stages for the first

time since 2012. It is now three years since the Jay

report revealed the horrific scale of sexual exploitation of children

in the South Yorkshire Over the course of 15 years more

than 1,400 children, some as young as 11,

were subjected to trafficking, rape and torture by gangs of men

who were predominantly of Pakistani origin while the police

and authorities failed to act. The report was seen by many

as a watershed moment in changing how authorities

would deal with abuse. The BBC's social affairs

correspondent Alison Holt has reported many times on the Rotherham

grooming scandal and has now returned to the town for a special

report for this programme. Before we talk to Alison,

I should warn you that you may find the details of her film upsetting

and it's not suitable if you have Allison, first of all, tell us what

you fan when you return to Rotherham? It is exactly three years

ago this week that the scandal emerged. At that time we were being

told that children were ignored, professionals tried to warn of what

was going on being sidelined and information not being shared. There

has been progress since then, no doubt. But, worryingly, I have also

been hearing from a whistle-blower who has talked about the difficult

last year she has had. And also I have been hearing about abuse cases,

which seemed to underline just how difficult it is to change some deep

rooted attitudes. Rotherham in South Yorkshire

is a town trying to emerge It's exactly three years

since a report concluded that, over a decade, more than 1,400

children were sexually exploited whilst the council and police

looked the other way. Jayne Senior was a key

whistle-blower who helped expose Last August, after complaints

by a number of abuse survivors, Rotherham council put

her under investigation. Speaking about it for

the first time, she says Here we are, nearly three years on,

and I feel more vilified than some That is how you feel

at the moment, you feel vilified? She's accused of making money

from media appearances and sharing But she only received details

of the actual allegations last week I do not receive money

for doing interviews. I don't and have not

done this for money. Somebody told them that

I was earning a significant amount of money - well,

I'm not. Former detective Michael Fowler

is on the management committee of the charity

where Jayne Senior works. We have policies and procedures

to deal with allegations. They've deliberately bypassed those,

even when we've asked them to stop. It just seems as though, you know,

they want to attack Jayne's character and discredit

the work she's done. In response, Rotherham Council says

it has a duty to robustly and fairly consider complaints and that it's

appointed independent investigators. It also says it can't

comment further. There have been some significant

successes in the town, with major abusers being jailed,

but there are also families who say it's still a struggle

to get the help they need. This is when she were

only a few months old. Gemma Roberts was first

exploited whilst in Her foster parents claim,

as an adult, plagued by the same abusers,

it was still difficult The perpetrators that

had got Gemma on drugs, lent her money, manipulating her,

were coming to the door, Police didn't come on two

occasions, they came on one. She felt, like I felt,

that she wasn't listened to. In February of this year,

Gemma died of a morphine overdose. She'd been waiting three weeks

for the police to take her statement about being gang raped

by her abusers. They were still there

from the care system, still there until she died at 35,

and they are still there now, South Yorkshire Police say

they don't have details of the specific incidents

and that they will But Gemma's death is a tragic

reminder of the importance Both Rotherham council and South

Yorkshire Police have apologised in the past about the failings going

back by the period covered by the J report. South Yorkshire Police say

they are saddened by Gemma's death and they will work with her family

to try and understand what their particular concerns are. South

Yorkshire Police also say there are many crimes that the family talk

about, and all of the ones they have recorded they say have been

investigated thoroughly and finalised. They also say that any

incidents involving firearms are taken extremely seriously by the

force. On Jayne Senior's case, we have spoken to an abuse survivor who

didn't want to take part in this piece, but I think one thing we do

need to emphasise is that, after all that has happened in the past, with

people, children, being ignored when they are talking about abuse, it is

absolutely essential that any complaint that is made is to relieve

investigated, whoever it is. And it will be for the investigators to

look at the allegations and decide the rights and wrongs there. The

question here is about the process, and we understand that the local

government ombudsman is going to be investigating the way in which

Rotherham council has handled this complaint against Jayne Senior. We

also know that, earlier this year, a police investigation into the

complaints was dropped, it found no case to answer. There is also

questions about whether enough lessons have been learned about the

conduct of the police? Those will be ongoing questions for

anybody involved in a place like Rotherham. Someone who wrote reports

for South Yorkshire Police, a series of reports that warned about what

she was seeing, basically telling them about the exploitation.

Although there are Independent Police Complaints Commission

investigations into officers 88 which are ongoing, the point she is

making is that still she feels that no senior officer, nobody in the

senior command team, has had to account for the decisions made at

that point in time. She believes until that is done, we can't fully

learn lessons. South Yorkshire Police say there have been

significant improvements. All of this underlines the importance of

actually understanding rather than learning from it. We all know too

well that rather is not unique. We have had Rochdale, Oxford and most

recently, Newcastle, where ten days ago 19 people were convicted of

sexual exploit Asian charges. It shows how much we need to keep

questioning this area. And if we are going to provide the protection that

vulnerable children need, how much we need to learn in these

situations. Alison Holt, thank you for bringing that report.

As we've seen in our report, the authorities, who had

ignored the problem, promised change.

But three years on, how much has really happened?

We're joined now by Dr Alan Billings, the Police

and Crime Commissioner for South Yorkshire.

Nazir Afzal, the former Chief Crown Prosecutor

for the North West, whose work led to the Rochdale

And Aneeta Prem, human rights activist for charity

children and teenagers on sex and sexual exploitation.

Thank you all for joining us. Anita, I want to start with you. Anybody

watching that film is going to see what a harrowing story Gemma's story

was. Just one story. Is this kind of abuse still going on now?

Unfortunately it is. This is not unique and Gemma's death can't be in

vain. The fact you reported this and wasn't listened to I think it is

really important that Senior officers are made accountable for

what happened at the time. I think it is very important when a young

person anybody comes forward to put this kind of horrific case, people

being trafficked, raped and tortured, that they are taken

seriously and there is a complete chain of command where we know

exactly what is going on, it can't be hidden away. Too many of these

cases are. Nottingham. That case as well. There are many cases out

there. We will talk about police failings and looking back. But let's

look forward. Do you think the police are changing the way they

view these people? There was a time before the Jay Report they were

almost seen as willing participants, these young girls. Now being seen as

victims? I think that is the big chains. One of the first things I

did when I became Police and Crime Commissioner was to establish a

panel of victims, survivors as they preferred to call themselves, and

their families, so I could learn about grooming, what it was, why it

had happened and where the Police Federation work, and introduced them

to the police. Victims have been influencing the training the police

have. We have brought agencies together. They are all located in

one place. You have got the local authority, the NHS, Barnardos and

police all in the same building sharing information. And crucially,

in South Yorkshire there have been these prosecutions. 1400 girls, all

fenders arrived there, they need to be brought to justice. That is

beginning to happen. Five big trials with big sentences sends out an

important message. Snazzier, do you think enough is being done to

protect Fulham will people right now? Let me pay tribute to Doctor

Billings. He inherited the situation in South Yorkshire and he has tried

to put things in place to provide the victims with the voice they

need. My senses there are is a substantial amount of complacency.

Surely we recognise there are massive resourcing issues. It does

cost policing about ?1 billion last year to investigate child sexual

abuse. That will increase over the next four years. There are massive

issues for those charities. There are many in the north that don't

have the resources to provide the support from victims they need. I

was talking to a survivor last night in Rotherham. She said to me she is

really concerned we are not dealing with the future. What about the

future fenders? There is not enough going on in relation young boys or

girls. -- all fenders. My sense is that we are making progress,

absolutely. There are many cases going through the courts but the

courts do not have the capacity to deal with the work coming their way.

I feel like a stuck record, good progress but plenty more to do. My

other concern is about what is happening within the communities

themselves. They took a real shock, rightly so, three years ago when

they learned of this report and what was happening. Some sizeable work

went on for a while. Then when the cameras went away and the

broadcasters moved on, all of that died down. I'm sure tomorrow there

will be sizeable amounts of work going on for a little while, but

again the microscope and leaves town and they and up moving on to other

priorities. I think it is relevant you talked about moving forward.

People will be familiar that last week Sarah Champion, the rather MP,

-- rather MP, she resigned. She said Britain has a problem with British

Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls. There, I said it. Does

that make me racist or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying

problem for what it is? She then had to apologise. I apologise, some

people will find that offensive, but it is important people know what he

said. People say she is calling it right. Why is she having to resign?

Do you think she was calling it out right now we stay scared to talk

about race in this context? People are very nervous talking about race.

We know in this case the men came from Pakistani descent. But we can't

say all Pakistani men are perpetrators. We have to be really

careful. But we need to look at education and go into schools, which

we are doing, and talk to young men and women about how they can report

sensibly and about women's rights. It is important we look at the next

generation and how this is going to be dealt with. Is a cultural

problem? I have spoken out on this subject several times. What Sarah

said, I wouldn't have said it without the context. 80% of the

child sex offenders in this country are white males. British Pakistani

men are disproportionately involved. Sarah is only echoing what I have

said for the best part of five years. She shouldn't have had to

resign. We don't shoot the message -- messenger if we don't like the

masses. We in the communities have to tackle this issue. It is not just

about policing education. We have the perpetrators. Ultimately, we

have got to challenge them on what they do. Doctor Billings, I want to

ask you, because the whistle-blower who took part in that film has been

told by people that children are still being abused. Are you actively

pursuing investigations into claims right now about children being

abused in Rotherham? Yorkshire police are dealing with all of the

current cases of abuse. There are a lot of them. More than 100 are

currently being investigated. Some of the things you are talking about

are not recent cases. They are investigated as well. The National

Crime Agency are doing that in South Yorkshire. You have got 117

detectives from the National Crime Agency actively at work and rather

ham -- Rotherham. They have not been able to bring anything to trial yet.

To get these things to trial, if they are not recent, you have no

forensic evidence, you are dependent on what the victims say in court.

And getting these vulnerable people and wrapping the care around them,

bringing them to court, educating the prosecution, the CPS. And

educating judges as well as to how you conduct a case, where there may

be one victim, their witnesses and perhaps nine barristers for the

defendants, all having their aggressive questions. It is not

easy. I want to ask you one more question before we leave this story.

Many people will want to know this. There has been criticism that none

of the senior members of your force were cleared by the IPCC. Why

haven't more senior officers being held responsible for what some

people say are quite clear failings? A lot of people ask that question in

South Yorkshire. It seems as if the senior leadership can get away with

these things, but the more junior members of the force... These are

difficult things to investigate. It takes resources. I don't know if too

much time has now gone by. But there are people currently being

investigated by the IPCC. I criticised the length of time that

is taking. If people have done things that are wrong, the public

should know about that, the victims should know. Some of those will be

exonerated. They need to be cleared because that is hanging over them as

well. It is a complex and difficult situation in South Yorkshire.

Thank you all for joining smack. And if you have any concerns

about what we've just covered, there's more information

on the BBC Action Line. The number 0800 888 809 -

calls are free and are open 24-hours a day, and there's a full list

of support and organisations Still to come, social workers are

warning of a worrying lack of Foster homes. We talk to people in the

industry who say this is the worst we have seen in years. The first

legal sale of rhino horn is due to be held in South Africa today. The

seller claims it is the best way to conserve the species.

Conservationists say it will push them towards extinction. We will

talk to both sides of the argument. A Labour MP is calling for women

only train carriages to avoid sexual harassment on public transport. We

will talk to him and an agenda equality campaign.

But first, the news. Police in Germany -- Birmingham have

obtained landmark court injunctions to break-up gangs. 17 people have

been served with a legal order banning them from certain parts of

the city and mixing with one another.

Princes William and Harry have described their bewilderment when

they encountered grieving crowds on the day of their mother's funeral.

Speaking to a BBC documentary marking 20 years since the death of

Princess Diana, they say walking behind her cough and had been a

family decision. Harry had previously said walking behind her

coughing was something no child should be asked to do. This

programme has learned a long-running investigation into a charity worker

who helped expose the sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham is to be

examined by the Local Government Ombudsman. Jane Senior has been

investigated by Rotherham Council for a year after a number of

complaints. She denies any wrongdoing and says it is a

distraction from helping vulnerable young people. A powerful typhoon has

made landfall in China, forcing thousands of people to evacuate

their homes. Hundreds of flights have been cancelled and businesses

forced to close. Winds near the centre of the storm were recorded at

more than 120 miles per. That is a summary of the latest news. Join me

at 11am. The Government is outlining how it

wants to stop judges in European courts from being able to overrule

the courts in the UK after Brexit. At the moment, it's possible

for some cases that have gone through the British courts system

to be ruled on in the Court of Justice of the European Union,

which is based in Luxembourg. Adam Fleming has been looking

at the work the courts do. The Court of Justice -

that's where national courts can ask for EU laws to be clarified,

and EU countries can get And the General Court,

where decisions made by the European institutions can be

challenged by countries, It means all sorts

of stuff comes up. For example, today's cases

include sharing airline passengers' details with Canada,

which countries should process refugees, and something

about a German cosmetics company. But remember, this is absolutely not

the European Court of Human Rights. That is totally different,

totally separate. All these guys - and they are mainly

guys who served here in the past - and nowadays every member state,

gets at least one judge here. This is every judgment

from the 1950s until about 2010 To supporters of this

place, it's amazing - To critics, these are examples

of foreign judges interfering We have a stream of cases coming in,

around about 700 cases every year. We have neither the time nor

the inclination to sit around So where do we think

this place will feature Well, the EU wants a big

future role for the ECJ, particularly when it comes

to the rights of EU The British government

isn't quite so sure. Let's talk to Alfonso Valero

from Nottingham Trent University, Allie Renison is from

the Institute of Directors. And Peter Stockdale

from the English Bridge Union, that's recently taken its case

to the European Court of Justice Peter, let's talk about your

experiences, first of all. Why did you feel you need to go to the ECJ?

There is an EU directive that there should be no VAT charged on the

entry fee of sport, but there is no clear definition of sport. When the

government most recently included their definition, they included

bridge. But HMRC were not applying it, so it was referred to the

European court for a clearer definition on what it meant by

sport. So it ruled in your favour though, so you are presumably

delighted? We are, there has been a recommendation, but it still needs

to be approved in October. Alfonzo, I want to bring you in because this

is a hugely corrugated issue, and people at home might be scratching

their heads thinking, why is this relevant to me and my everyday life?

The role of the ECJ as such is quite relevant, insofar as it rolls on the

right situation for example to consumer legislation, data

protection, and things as maybe it would seem originally as remote as

the composition of chemical products. The ECJ definitely has a

significant impact. Ballet, what are you concerned with the changes that

the government is likely to propose in lighter Brexit? I think the big

question is what replaces it. Currently under the ECJ virtually

anyone can challenge another entity under EU law and the concern is that

if we look at some of the other models the government is potentially

thinking about, they tend to deal with state to state dispute

resolution, not necessarily affording the same ease of access

and rights to pursue disputes. Of course any European citizens who

remain hereafter Brexit will still be a will to use the court? Yes.

They will still be to use the British court. There was some debate

on the ECJ jurisdiction on citizen rights currently here going forward,

whether or not the ECJ needs to have a rather that particular issue.

Within the legal and academic community some people think that the

EU has lightly overshot what it is asking for in that respect, but the

wider question is who interprets the withdrawal agreement once we leave

the EU, that is a much bigger question. Alphonso, do you see there

could be any benefit to the government's proposals, the idea of

getting rid of the ECJ playing a role in these everyday decisions?

One benefit would be the fact that British legal courts tend to be a

bit faster in their resolution. If you need to refer a question to the

ECJ in Luxembourg where sometimes it is true there could be a delay of

years in obtaining a decision. The other consideration is whether there

has on the other hand a disadvantage for the UK citizens of the

interpretation by the UK courts which may differ substantially from

the ECJ. Peter, if you had not been able to go to the European Court of

Justice, resume the blue this would have meant he would have this had to

start paying VAT for bridge and it would cost your sport? We have been

paying VAT, so hopefully going forward there will be no VAT charged

on bridge activities, making it cheaper for everyone to take part,

and hopefully we can make wider involvement in fridge through this

reduction in costs. Thank you for joining us. -- in bridge. Still to

come, the first legal sale of rhino horn is due to be held in South

Africa today, but is at the right way to stop poaching? There is a

warning from the UK social workers about a worrying number of foster

homes, which are currently, I don't know why we are still on pictures of

rhino horn, but hopefully we can get back to this.

Current figures show there is a shortage of around 7,500 -

and the British Association of Social Workers says this does not

account for the complexity of matching children

with an appropriate carer who suits their needs.

Some staff within the industry have told this programme the availability

of foster homes is the worst they've seen in years - particularly

when working with teenagers, those with disabilities or siblings.

In extreme cases they're even struggling to place babies.

Charities are keen to stress that a child will always have a foster

home, but it may not be the right home for them which means they may

be frequently moved around which can be extremely distressing.

Joining us now, we have two foster carers -

And Blair Mortimer - who is also a social worker

Wayne Reid - who is from British Association of Social Workers

And - Chloe Cockette - who is from Become, a charity

Thank you all for coming to talk to us today. Margaret, I want to start

by speaking to you about your experiences as a foster carer,

because some people may think this is hugely challenging, you could

form a bond with this child and then they can leave you, which is

heartbreaking, presumably? Yes, it can be heartbreaking. I started

fostering eight years ago with an organisation called action for

children. My experience of working with fostering, it has been quite

rewarding. Obviously there are lots of challenges and issues surrounding

the work that I do but it is something I have always wanted to

do, and I'd took it on, I embraced it, knowing that I can offer a home

to a young person that needs kind of guidance and love. Fanatics actually

what you have done and it has been a huge success story for your foster

daughter. Yes, it has done. I have a foster child who came to me at 13.

She is now 18. She is now going on to university. Her case was very

convex when she first came. But working with my supervisor, social

workers and all the professionals involved with her care over the

years, we've turned things around for her, and to be fair she has also

really turn things around for herself. Being the environment with

her friends and family helping to support me with his children, I hope

and I think that I've provided a safe and fun environment for her,

and she can go on to do better things for herself. Blair, hello, I

had to guess who you were, I will bring you in on a moment, but Blair,

you are also a foster carer. Have your experiences been equally

positive? There must be some challenging times as a foster carer.

Certainly there are challenges but I think overall, doing it over 90

years now, overwhelmingly it has been positive. Even the challenges

when you are able to look back at those, you can see how there is

great learning in that, you can readjust and adjust the support that

is around you and also work better with the services, social workers,

the services for the young people. But overwhelmingly fostering for me

has been very, very positive. Wayne, what do you think puts people off?

There are lots of barriers. In terms of work, the image of foster carers,

that can be avoided in terms of what the general public know about

fostering, so people kind of make their own minds up. I think we need

to promote more of a positive image about what the role entails. It can

be very rewarding. Definitely. The support is vital for foster carers,

they do an amazing job, and if we can provide that support the foster

carers, and foster carers all of them felt supported, that will

really help. What support do you get is a foster carer? The organisation

I work for, action for children, there is a loss of support there for

the foster carers. We have support group, professional training is

about issues surrounding what we do. There is also friends and family who

initially were a bit sceptical about me doing this job, because of the

challenges and issues that comes with it, but now everyone has

embraced it and they are very supportive. That helps. If I want to

take a respite for myself, go on holiday or just have a night out,

all of that, I have a good support network. I would agree with that but

the key is to encourage people to bring around support for themselves

as well. I work for Camden as a social worker and our ethos is about

caring for our care workers, encouraging them to build around it.

Providing support groups for them, and in camera during them to support

each other as well. If they are without a placement for a period of

time, looking at how they can support each other. And also I think

one of the things that needs to happen as well is looking at birth

children as well, and how agencies and local authorities can work with

birth children and acknowledge the impact of fostering on them as well.

I think that will help stabilising placement and encourage carers to

continue caring for longer. Can you explain what happened for example if

a child comes to you, how quickly do they leave you? What many people

think is if I'm welcoming a child into our home, I am reading here,

one foster carer said we have had our hearts broken several times when

children and babies move on but we don't have any plans to stop. How

much notice before a child would go to another home? Sorry to interrupt,

fostering can be very weird, very predictable, short-term placements

can become long-term and vice versa. A lot of that the pens around the

children's circumstances themselves, they can change by quickly with very

short notice. What I would say is that foster carers are prepared.

They are given preparation training, support, as Margaret and Blair have

alluded to. There are mechanisms already there to support them at

that transition but ultimately it does tug at heartstrings when

children move on. The way that you engage with young people come you

make those connections. You have to. That is pretty much what we want

from foster care, you have to be to support them with dealing with that

also. Explain to people watching, Chloe, the difference that a foster

home, a caring, supportive, wonderful foster home can make to a

child? Specific examples. It gives children a childhood. A good foster

home will prepare a child for adult life and give them the family

support and help them to build relationships. These are children

who have been brought into care because they have had a tough time

and they deserve the very best, and the very burst -- very best foster

carers will provide them with love and care and with support they will

enable them to stabilise, enable them to lend budgeting skills,

enable them to make friends and play and do the things we would want for

our own children. That is the really important thing, that actually

foster care enables children to be kids, and to recover for the trauma

they have experienced before coming into care. Some people watching this

may see they have seen reports on the news that certain ethnicities

have not been able to adopt, what is it like in fostering, are there

restrictions on ethnicity, race, religion, having a full-time job for

example? Some of that is provide a specific. Depending whether you

foster for a private agency or a voluntary agency, there may be

different requirements they have. There are no legal requirements

about that but there may be provider requirements. Anybody can foster

now. As long as you are determined to do it. Single people. Married

couples. So there are no restrictions, you can be a single

person who has never had a child? Yes. Wie the important thing is

fostering is not something that comes to be both, it grows within

people. My suggestion would be is if anyone sitting at home has ever

wanted to foster, you have to get on the phone to your local authority.

Wherever your local authority is, phone in, meet with the team, go to

an information session, because actually there is very, very little

restriction in who can foster. The challenge, really, is can you make