27/10/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


27/10/2017

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Hello.

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It's Friday, it's 9

o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,

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welcome to the programme

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A cyber attack that crippled parts

of the NHS back in May could have

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been avoided if certain security

measures had been in place.

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A report into the incident

that froze computers,

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causing operations to be cancelled,

says that the health

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service was just not

prepared for an attack.

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In some cases, organisations had to

resort to telephone, paper and pen,

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apps such as WhatsApp in terms of

communicating with others.

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We'll be speaking to the man

who was in charge of overseeing

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cyber security for the NHS

in England at half past ten.

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Young people who need mental health

care are waiting too long

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for their treatment -

the commission that monitors care

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provision says that treatment varies

considerably according

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to where people live and that some

children are waiting up to 18

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months for treatment.

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The young people that I visit when I

work as an independent mental health

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advocate on an adolescent board, and

families say to me if they have

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their help earlier they would not

have been in that position, they

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would not be in hospital.

We will

hear from some people about their

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experiences of accessing mental

health services at 9.15.

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The wait isn't quite over -

as the files about the assassination

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of American president

John F Kennedy are released.

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Donald Trump delays

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some of the more sensitive case

notes after requests

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from the CIA and FBI.

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Hello,

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welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11 this morning.

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Have you had any experiences,

good or bad, trying to access mental

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health care for children

and young people?

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We are talking about that

and also later in the show

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we are going to talk about the rules

around sharing details

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of crimes people committed

when they were children and how

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they should or should not be shared

around with prospective employers.

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Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning -

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use the hashtag #Victorialive

and If you text, you will be charged

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at the standard network rate.

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Our top story today...

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An investigation into the

cyberattack that brought down parts

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of the NHS in May has found that it

could have been prevented if basic

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security measures had been in place.

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The National Audit Office says

that the health service wasn't

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prepared for the attack,

which saw criminals freeze computers

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and demand a ransom.

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It calls on the NHS to develop

a clear plan to deal

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with future threats.

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Here's our Technology

Correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones.

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It was an attack which froze

computers around the world.

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But the NHS was among

the organisations worst affected

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and the National Audit Office says

it was ill-prepared.

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The report details the impact

of the worst ever cyber attack

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on the health service.

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81 health trusts across England

were affected, a third of the total.

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It's thought over 19,000

appointments ended up

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being cancelled, including 139

potential cancer referrals.

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What planning there had been to deal

with a cyberattack just hadn't

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filtered down to the hospitals.

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Some work had been done

on a national cyber response plan

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in the NHS, but that hadn't been

well communicated to all of those

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local bodies and in some cases

organisations had to resort

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to telephone, and paper and pen,

and apps such as WhatsApp in terms

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of communicating with others.

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Those hospitals which saw computers

infected by the malicious software

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had ignored instructions to install

a security patch which would

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have protected them.

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Now the NHS says lessons

have been learned.

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We have been getting

our act together.

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We are getting our act together.

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We're putting funding in.

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We're putting education in.

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We're rolling out the programmes

that were in place before this

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attack and we will continue

to improve over time.

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There are more serious cyber

attackers waiting to strike.

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Hospital trusts are warning

the government they may

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need to spend more money

to strengthen their defences.

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Rory Cellan-Jones, BBC News.

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Our Technology Correspondent Rory

Cellan-Jones is with me.

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Just explain what measures are in

place now to make sure this doesn't

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happen again.

Well, across the NHS

people have been told to get their

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act together and the key thing here

is to respond when NHS Digital, the

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Central organisation, sends out

warning is instructing people to

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upgrade their computers with a

security patch. The key thing that

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went wrong here is that there was a

warning in March and April, fix your

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Windows computer systems with this

patch and you should be safe. If the

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hospitals had done that, and

obviously lots of them did, they

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would have been protected. But they

didn't. The other thing is having a

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plan that filters down from the top

to every local hospital. That is

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what didn't happen here. There was

some kind of plan, it was never

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rehearsed. When disaster struck,

people didn't know what to do. They

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didn't know who to call, for

instance.

Is it clear why the

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hospitals didn't do the upgrade they

were warned about a few months

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before?

This is a problem in lots of

organisations, frankly. There are

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security patches coming out almost

on a daily basis. The threats are

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there, new threats every day.

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Organisations find it difficult to

have the resources in place, the

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people in place, and the agency to

do that. But I think this has been a

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wake-up call to lots of them.

I was

reading that this could have been

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far worse, if it had happened in the

middle of winter?

It was a Friday in

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May, not a particularly busy time.

If it happened on a Monday in

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winter, the knock-on effect would

have been much worse. But they have

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been warned by the National Audit

Office that there are worse threats

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out there. This was a particularly

unsophisticated attack. A much more

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sophisticated attack could cause a

lot more damage. They have got to

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shore up their defences.

Thank you

for coming by.

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Vicki Young is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

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of the rest of the days news.

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A Government ordered review

of mental health services

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for children in England has found

that thousands of children

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are not getting the support

they need, when they need it.

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Inspectors from the Care Quality

Commission concluded services

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were too fragmented

and hard to access.

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Our health correspondent

Rob Sissons reports.

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Alice battled anorexia

throughout her teenage years.

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She waited around six months

for a mental health assessment

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and to get specialist treatment,

she was told she'd have to travel

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100 miles from her home.

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She's concerned some young people

are still waiting too long.

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We're talking about young people

with mental health problems that

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are so distressed with their own

minds that they don't even know how

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they're going to get through the day

and to then turn around to them

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and ask them to wait, you know, six,

12, 18 months for the help

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that they desperately need

is incredibly distressing.

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The Care Quality Commission report

suggests 39% of specialist community

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services need improving.

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It warns services are too fragmented

and a more joined-up

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approach is needed.

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The report highlights evidence that

one in four children who needed care

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were unable to access it.

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The commission warns children's

lives may be being put at risk

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because of the failings.

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Suicide is one of the leading causes

of death in young people.

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What we do know is that

waiting a long time,

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or not being able to access

a service when you need it,

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inherently increases the risk.

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Alice welcomes the Government's

promised to invest an extra £1.4

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billion into children's mental

health services over

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the next four years.

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The Care Quality Commission has

revealed the scale of the problems.

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Its next piece of work

will be to come up with

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some detailed solutions.

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Rob Sissons, BBC News.

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And in the next few minutes we'll be

speaking to the families of children

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who have had to face long delays

for mental health treatment.

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Spain's political crisis is likely

to deepen today if - as expected -

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the Senate backs a plan

by the central government to remove

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some powers from the autonomous

region of Catalonia and to take over

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the running of its institutions.

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Madrid wants to reassert control

by triggering an article

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in the Spanish constitution that's

designed to prevent regions

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from breaking away.

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But it's thought the Catalan

Parliament may respond

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by declaring independence.

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Andrew Plant reports

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27 days after this crisis started,

each day, crowds have gathered,

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speeches have been made,

and each day, an agreement has

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seemed further away.

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On one side, Catalonia

considering declaring independence

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and on the other, Spain

considering taking back control.

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On Thursday, Catalonian president

Carles Puigdemont could have

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declared independence,

which would have angered

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the Spanish government.

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Or he could've backtracked,

which would have angered

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his own supporters.

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Instead, he did neither.

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TRANSLATION: My responsibility

as president of Catalonia

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was to exhaust all

the options available.

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What we need is

de-escalation and dialogue.

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But once again, I have not had

a satisfactory reply

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from the Spanish government.

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Spain's national government

could now vote to take

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away his control.

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TRANSLATION: Launching article 155

of the constitution,

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which will affect Catalonia's

autonomy, is the last resort.

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It's the only way to restore

legality, tolerance,

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democracy, and economic

stability to Catalonia.

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This is all the fault

of the Catalan president.

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Today, the Spanish senate will vote

on unravelling Catalonia's powers -

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something which has

never been done before.

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That much is clear,

but the future is not.

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The question - what will happen

here if Spain strips away

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Catalonia's regional powers?

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The answer - no-one really knows

the repercussions might be.

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Andrew Plant, BBC News.

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Australia's High Court has

ruled that the country's

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deputy prime minister,

Barnaby Joyce, should be

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disqualified from office

because he held dual

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citizenship when elected.

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The verdict has cost the Australian

government its one-seat majority

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in parliament and a by-election

will now be held in December.

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Four other politicians have also

been ruled ineligible

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to remain in parliament.

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French scientists say patients

who have heart surgery

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in the afternoon are less likely

to suffer complications than those

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who are treated in the morning.

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Their research - published

in The Lancet medical journal -

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argues that the body clock makes

the heart stronger during

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the afternoon than in the morning,

and it's more able to withstand

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the rigours of surgery.

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President Trump has declassified

almost 3,000 documents related

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to the assassination

of John F Kennedy in 1963.

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But he decided to to keep hundreds

of other files secret,

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at least for the time being,

at the request of security agencies.

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Mr Trump had earlier indicated

that all of the files

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would be made public,

as Peter Bowes reports.

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Page after page, previously

top-secret documents,

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many of them handwritten,

from the investigation

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into the assassination

of John F Kennedy.

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It was November 22, 1963

when Lee Harvey Oswald shot

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the president as he was travelling

in an open top limousine in Dallas.

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ARCHIVE:

It appears as though

something has happened

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in the motorcade route.

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The official investigation concluded

that Oswald had acted alone.

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ARCHIVE: President Kennedy

has been assassinated.

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It is official now -

the President is dead.

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But more than 50 years later,

many Americans find it difficult

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to believe the official

version of what happened.

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Conspiracy theorists think

information could have been withheld

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to avoid embarrassing

government agencies.

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Historians, journalists,

and legal scholars are now poring

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over the almost 3,000

documents just released,

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searching for clues

and discrepancies in the official

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story on new facts to back it up.

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Several hundred documents are being

held back for further scrutiny.

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There will be a six-month

review period after

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the CIA and FBI expressed

concern about their content.

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It's a move that will only fuel

the conspiracy theories.

0:12:340:12:37

A UN-backed report has concluded

the Syrian government was behind

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a chemical attack on the town

of Khan Sheikhoun earlier this year

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which killed about 90 people.

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Investigators said the nerve agent

sarin was dropped from an aircraft.

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Syria has previously

denied responsibility.

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In Thailand, the new king has

collected fragments of bone

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from the cremated remains

of his father,

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the late King Bhumibol.

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The ritual is part of the 5-day

funeral that's brought

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the nation to a standstill.

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The relics will be placed in golden

urns to be transported in procession

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to the Grand Palace later today.

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At least four people have been

killed and dozens injured

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in violence surrounding Kenya's

second presidential

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election in three months.

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Less than half of eligible voters

cast a ballot yesterday,

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far lower than the 80% who voted

in the original election in August

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when President Kenyatta

was declared the winner.

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Opposition leaders had

called for a boycott

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of the poll amid claims

of voting irregularities.

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The voice of Pope Francis has been

heard in the heavens as he made

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a video call from the Vatican

to astronauts aboard

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the International Space Station.

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His 20 minute call to the crew

included questions about love,

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life in zero gravity,

and what makes them happy

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whilst they're in orbit.

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We can see the peace and serenity

of our planet as it goes around

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at ten kilometres a second,

and there's no borders,

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there is no conflict.

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It's just peaceful and you see

the thinness of the atmosphere

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and it makes you realise how

fragile our existence here is.

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That is a summary of the latest BBC

News. There will be more at 9.30.

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Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

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use the hashtag #VictoriaLive

and if you text, you will be charged

0:14:400:14:43

at the standard network rate.

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Let's get some sport

with John Watson.

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In the next hour,

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the Rugby League World Cup will get

under way in Melbourne.

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England have the daunting task

of facing reigning champions

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Australia in that opening game.

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Some are they confident?

I think so,

it could not have been a tough

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start, you have to factor that into

the equation. They are getting the

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tournament under way in about an

hour's time. They are regarded as

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one of the favourites for the trophy

but they have had a terrible run

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against Australia. They have not

beaten them since the opening match

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of the 1995 World Cup. It has been a

long winless run.

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But they have some great players.

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Sam Burgess we know.

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The last World Cup he played

in was for England in the ill fated

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Rugby Union version two years ago.

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He plays his club Rugby League back

in Australia now, in the NRL.

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One of seven or eight players

who play their club rugby

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in Australia, so they should know

what to expect.

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We have all dreamt about winning the

World Cup, certainly. The players in

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the squad, you need the ambition,

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World Cup, certainly. The players in

the squad, you need the ambition, or

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you need the want to be able to go

and win the World Cup. You're not

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just going to sit around and not

think about it and then it then

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happen. You have to visualise it. To

remain focused, you then have to

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bring yourself back into day that we

face and be present and understand

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what it takes to win a competition,

what it takes to win games. That is

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where our mindset is at the moment.

14 teams involved, including

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Scotland and Wales, so tell us how

it will unfold.

14 teams split

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across four groups. Three host

countries, Wales, Scotland and

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Ireland also feature, representing

the home nations. Wales are up

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against co-hosts Papua New Guinea

tomorrow. This is them arriving a

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pretty awesome reception, I think

it's fair to say. It will be pretty

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hot there and it is the national

sport in Papua New Guinea, so they

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can expect a hostile reception, I

think it's fair to say. Ireland also

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take them on in their first match in

the coming days as well. Scotland

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have a tough test against New

Zealand. But they have a good chance

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of reaching the knockout stages.

They managed to draw against New

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Zealand in a previous tournament. It

is worth watching Tonga, a really

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exciting team who could go all the

way. And women's tournament runs

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alongside the men's, starting next

month. England are the sole

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representatives from Europe. There

will be a final in Brisbane in

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December. Live coverage of England's

match on BBC Two this morning.

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If a young person experiences

mental health problems

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the NHS is supposed to provide

services to help them,

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with a belief that early

intervention is key.

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But a new study from

the Care Quality Commission has

0:17:520:17:55

found some children in England

are facing long delay for treatment

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- sometimes as long as 18 months.

0:17:570:18:01

The Department of Health says it's

investing £1.4 billion

0:18:010:18:06

into improving children's mental

health care but staff

0:18:060:18:08

for the NHS's Child and Adolescent

Mental Health Services have told

0:18:080:18:11

this programme services

are still extremely underfunded.

0:18:110:18:20

Joining us now is Cathal Morrow -

his eight-year-old had to wait 18

0:18:200:18:23

months before he received treatment.

0:18:240:18:25

Helena Miles used mental health

services for most of her teens.

0:18:250:18:28

Louise Theodosiou is from

the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

0:18:280:18:32

And Labour MP for Liverpool

Wavertree Luciana Berger,

0:18:320:18:36

who is president of the party's

campaign for mental health.

0:18:360:18:41

Thank you all for joining us. Can I

ask first - 18 months for your son

0:18:410:18:47

to access mental health treatment.

Why the delay?

About three years

0:18:470:18:56

ago, he had a breakdown, and the

school were unbelievable. We pushed

0:18:560:19:03

for an assessment, got it, but it

didn't really say anything. We were

0:19:030:19:06

pushing and pushing, and they drip

fed us a little bit, but nothing

0:19:060:19:10

much in terms of services. Then a

year ago, he was in hospital for a

0:19:100:19:19

week, then they moved him up to a

level three, and from there, he has

0:19:190:19:23

been having weekly therapy. I have

been having services, counselling

0:19:230:19:29

and stuff, and it has been

excellent. But it was an insane

0:19:290:19:33

delay.

Helene, you have access

mental health services throughout

0:19:330:19:38

your teens - did you struggle to get

access to those services?

It took

0:19:380:19:44

awhile for to take my mental health,

not seriously, but to take it into

0:19:440:19:50

serious consideration. It took until

I was sectioned for me to get a

0:19:500:19:56

diagnosis of post-traumatic stress

disorder.

What impact does that have

0:19:560:19:59

on you, and on your son of those

delays?

I didn't have a teenage

0:19:590:20:05

period. It took a long time for me

to learn about myself and my mental

0:20:050:20:11

health, and I kind of feel like I am

now catching up on being a teenager

0:20:110:20:16

and being at university, getting to

know myself better. When I was a

0:20:160:20:20

teenager, I felt like an empty

shell, not a real human being.

For

0:20:200:20:24

my son, the delay in mental

health... If you break your leg, it

0:20:240:20:31

gets fixed, but mental health is

something that needs work

0:20:310:20:33

immediately, and the delays have

meant that he has been taken out of

0:20:330:20:39

school and is being home-schooled.

It has a massive knock-on effect.

I

0:20:390:20:46

want to bring in Louise. To give us

a perspective from the inside, if

0:20:460:20:53

you would, Louise, why is there this

delay? People watching would say

0:20:530:21:00

that a young boy needing help, 18

months of his life is a long time to

0:21:000:21:04

wait.

It is, and it is important

that we are looking at this issue

0:21:040:21:08

today. One of the things we have

heard is that what happens is that

0:21:080:21:14

you cannot fix things quickly, and

we know that in order for children's

0:21:140:21:17

needs to be met, work has to start

early. One of the things we all need

0:21:170:21:21

to do is to build up people's

resilience, the same way we are all

0:21:210:21:28

working on our physical health every

day. We know that less than 1% of

0:21:280:21:31

the investment in health care has

been in child and adolescent mental

0:21:310:21:34

health services for a long time, and

although more money is coming now,

0:21:340:21:37

it is coming after a long period of

underinvestment, which means that

0:21:370:21:42

not only our services small, but

there is not a workforce to recruit

0:21:420:21:45

from, so we need more people to be

working in young people's mental

0:21:450:21:50

health services and more people in

the services around them, such as

0:21:500:21:54

youth services, education and social

care. We also need people to be able

0:21:540:21:58

to recognise when children really

are struggling, and once again, that

0:21:580:22:02

is about training and awareness. It

is fantastic that because more

0:22:020:22:07

people are aware of children's

mental health needs, there is a

0:22:070:22:11

drive out there and people are

stepping forward, and we have seen

0:22:110:22:15

in the past three years referrals to

child and adolescent mental health

0:22:150:22:19

services going up by almost 50%.

So

why is it that people aren't

0:22:190:22:25

attracted to working in the

services, or are leaving?

That's a

0:22:250:22:30

really important question. I can say

that I love working in the service,

0:22:300:22:35

and I can say that when services are

working well, they are amazing

0:22:350:22:39

places to work. We need to recognise

that the work can be very difficult,

0:22:390:22:44

particularly with the underfunding,

and people can feel that they are

0:22:440:22:49

not offering a good service because

there's not enough people around.

0:22:490:22:53

It's fantastic that there is

increasing awareness, and we know

0:22:530:22:58

that we need people to be valued, to

have good supervision and clear

0:22:580:23:02

leadership, and there are a lot of

new innovations coming in, like

0:23:020:23:08

Future In Mind, and other documents

that have come out in the past two

0:23:080:23:11

years which make it clear what we

need to do for people, and to

0:23:110:23:14

provide the training that is needed,

and to make our workforce feel

0:23:140:23:18

valued. Programmes like this, people

are realising how important the work

0:23:180:23:23

we do is come and that makes people

feel valued and that they are being

0:23:230:23:27

heard.

Luciano, the Government has

committed £1.4 billion to children's

0:23:270:23:35

and adolescent health services, so

things are moving in the right

0:23:350:23:38

direction quick smack

the money has

been announced, but in terms of it

0:23:380:23:43

reaching the front line, the row

many examples, including here in

0:23:430:23:46

Liverpool, where we have seen cuts

to our young people's mental health

0:23:460:23:52

services. -- things are moving in

the right direction? We have seen

0:23:520:24:01

waiting times of six months just to

get an assessment. That doesn't help

0:24:010:24:06

support them with their mental

health needs. It is not just

0:24:060:24:09

happening in Liverpool but right

across the country. With the budget

0:24:090:24:12

coming up, we have an opportunity to

say to the Chancellor that we need

0:24:120:24:16

to have the money they promised to

mental health ring fenced to make

0:24:160:24:19

sure it reaches the front line,

because there are many examples of

0:24:190:24:23

it not happening. That is why this

report, along with many others over

0:24:230:24:27

the past two years, really shine a

light on the fact that children's

0:24:270:24:35

mental health services are the

Cinderella of the Cinderella

0:24:350:24:37

services of the NHS.

I can see you

shaking your head. What is going

0:24:370:24:45

through your mind listening to this?

I used to volunteer at the Centre

0:24:450:24:51

for children and families, and we

had so many stories of cuts and

0:24:510:24:55

underfunding, the fact that adult

services get more funding than

0:24:550:24:58

children's, but many users of youth

services go one to use adult

0:24:580:25:05

services. Honestly, this topic is so

important to me, and it has shaped

0:25:050:25:11

my life. I just want it to be OK,

which is really hard to do. Talking

0:25:110:25:19

about it is really useful, but

there's just no funding.

At the

0:25:190:25:31

service my son goes to, people are

leaving in droves.

Staff?

Yes, and

0:25:310:25:36

really good people. If you care

about your job, and half of it is

0:25:360:25:45

saying no to a kid who really needs

help, it is their job to do that,

0:25:450:25:50

and how does that make you feel as a

caring professional? Massively

0:25:500:25:54

demoralised. And people are leaving.

They have had pay cuts. My son's

0:25:540:26:00

therapist, who is unbelievable, he

is one of two therapists for the

0:26:000:26:06

whole NHS Trust, which is former

London boroughs.

We were talking

0:26:060:26:10

before we came on air and you were

both saying that once you do access

0:26:100:26:14

those services, they are fantastic.

Unbelievable. My son has an amazing

0:26:140:26:21

social worker. My son is being

helped by the home tuition service,

0:26:210:26:27

which is great. They are all amazing

people, and they are really

0:26:270:26:30

dedicated, and they are fighting

against cuts. They have to say no

0:26:300:26:34

because there is in the money to say

yes.

Without the NHS staff and

0:26:340:26:40

others, I wouldn't even be sitting

here today, to be honest, but there

0:26:400:26:44

are so many young people who aren't

sitting here, especially LGBT and

0:26:440:26:51

kids from poorer backgrounds. It's

so much harder for them. But for the

0:26:510:26:55

ones who do get to access it, it is

often good stories.

Louise, you

0:26:550:27:01

raised before the increase in the

number of referrals that your

0:27:010:27:06

services are getting for children

and adolescent mental health - is

0:27:060:27:09

this, in part, a good thing? You

have had Prince Harry talking about

0:27:090:27:14

mental health, the stigma seems to

be being removed within society, but

0:27:140:27:20

therefore, there is a consequence

that your services are having to

0:27:200:27:23

take.

Absolutely, and in part, I

welcome the increase in referrals

0:27:230:27:30

because we know that mental health

problems, like physical health

0:27:300:27:32

problems, need to be treated. There

isn't anything to be ashamed of. We

0:27:320:27:36

know that one in four young women

will experience depression. We need

0:27:360:27:41

to be getting things right. I agree

with the Leonard that poor people

0:27:410:27:47

and people from minority groups tend

to have greater needs, and we need

0:27:470:27:50

to make sure that services are

accessible to everyone. -- I agree

0:27:500:28:02

with the Leonard.

Is it potluck, a

postcode lottery, that determines

0:28:020:28:07

what services you can get in your

area?

That has been the case for a

0:28:070:28:12

long time, and this report exposes

that, where there is real variance

0:28:120:28:15

in the level and quality of services

across the country. Some are good,

0:28:150:28:20

some outstanding, but it is not

right that 20% of inpatient services

0:28:200:28:27

require improvement, and 30% of

services in the community need

0:28:270:28:29

improving. It is part of this wider

ambition to ensure that the close

0:28:290:28:35

that gap and achieve that real

equality for mental health that we

0:28:350:28:39

have for physical health. We are on

a journey, but ultimately, to make

0:28:390:28:46

the greatest difference we need to

make sure that locally all of our

0:28:460:28:50

services prioritise mental health.

That is not happening in Liverpool,

0:28:500:28:53

but not just here, across the

country. Our local commissioning

0:28:530:28:57

groups are not held to account to

ring fence that Monday, which means

0:28:570:29:01

it is spent on other things. The

young people you have heard from,

0:29:010:29:05

and the parent you have heard from

today, this is about people's

0:29:050:29:09

futures. We know that the majority

of adults with mental health

0:29:090:29:13

condition will have developed it as

a young person. It doesn't make

0:29:130:29:16

sense not to intervene and support

people earlier on, because it will

0:29:160:29:19

affect the book into their adult

life if we do not. Not only does

0:29:190:29:23

that have an impact on adults in

terms of maintaining relationships,

0:29:230:29:27

accessing employment and being able

to pay for things in life, but

0:29:270:29:34

actually, it costs our economy. For

so many different reasons, it is

0:29:340:29:37

important that what we talk about

when it comes to young people's

0:29:370:29:41

mental health actually translates

into supporting people early on.

0:29:410:29:44

It's not happening at the moment,

but it needs to, for so many

0:29:440:29:48

different reasons. That is why I

hope that in the budget we will see

0:29:480:29:51

that change.

I want to bring capital

backing, because if there are

0:29:510:29:55

parents at home struggling -- to

bring Cathal back in. You have got

0:29:550:30:06

support for your son, but what would

you say to other parents?

Push.

0:30:060:30:14

You have just got to push and

demand. I am not a pushy parent. My

0:30:140:30:18

kids have no more rights than

anybody else's kids, but they have a

0:30:180:30:22

right to the services. You have to

keep pushing and pushing. The people

0:30:220:30:25

at the other end, the CAMHS people

come they want to help young people

0:30:250:30:31

but they are not allowed because the

money is not there. Push for the

0:30:310:30:34

services and keep on pushing.

Thanks

for coming in to talk us.

0:30:340:30:37

A Department of Health

spokesperson said:

0:30:370:30:39

"Our commitment to improving

children's mental healthcare

0:30:390:30:40

is shown by our additional

£1.4 billion investment,

0:30:400:30:42

more trained staff and more children

and young people accessing care.

0:30:420:30:47

But there is more to do which is why

we commissioned this review

0:30:470:30:50

and will publish a Green Paper

on Children and Young

0:30:500:30:56

People's Mental Health

by the end of the year."

0:30:560:30:59

Still to come: The Spanish senate

will today vote on whether to impose

0:30:590:31:03

direct rule over Catalonia -

after the Catalan government

0:31:030:31:05

yesterday didn't call a snap

election or declare independence.

0:31:050:31:09

And tomorrow night, in Cardiff,

Anthony Joshua will seek to defend

0:31:130:31:15

his crown as World Heavyweight

Champion.

0:31:150:31:17

We'll speak to one of his team

as they prepare for the fight.

0:31:170:31:20

Time for the latest news.

0:31:260:31:27

Here's Vicki.

0:31:270:31:31

An investigation into the cyber

0:31:310:31:33

attack that brought down parts

of the NHS in May has found it

0:31:330:31:36

could have been prevented if basic

security measures had been in place.

0:31:360:31:39

The National Audit Office says

the health service wasn't prepared

0:31:390:31:41

for the attack and must develop

a clear plan to deal

0:31:410:31:44

with future threats.

0:31:440:31:47

NHS England says it has invested

in improving security and stressed

0:31:470:31:50

that no harm was caused to patients.

0:31:500:31:53

Thousands of children across England

are having to face extremley long

0:31:550:31:57

waiting times for mental health

treatment, according to a review

0:31:570:32:00

by Government inspectors.

0:32:000:32:03

The Care Quality Commission found

that services are too

0:32:030:32:05

fragmented and hard to access.

0:32:050:32:08

The Department of Health says

it is investing an extra

0:32:080:32:15

1.4 billion in children's

mental health services

0:32:150:32:16

over the next four years.

0:32:160:32:18

French scientists say patients

who have heart surgery

0:32:180:32:20

in the afternoon are less likely

to suffer complications than those

0:32:200:32:22

who are treated in the morning.

0:32:220:32:24

Their research - published

in The Lancet medical journal -

0:32:240:32:26

argues that the body clock makes

the heart stronger during

0:32:260:32:29

the afternoon than in the morning,

and it's more able to withstand

0:32:290:32:31

the rigours of surgery.

0:32:310:32:36

The Spanish Senate is expected

to approve government plans

0:32:390:32:41

to reduce the powers of the region

of Catalonia today.

0:32:410:32:45

The Catalan authorities say

such a move would worsen

0:32:450:32:49

the political crisis,

making a declaration

0:32:490:32:51

of independence by the regional

parliament more likely -

0:32:510:32:53

though no decision

has been reached yet.

0:32:530:32:56

Australia's High Court has

ruled that the country's

0:32:580:33:00

deputy prime minister,

Barnaby Joyce, should be

0:33:000:33:02

disqualified from office

because he held dual

0:33:020:33:03

citizenship when elected.

0:33:030:33:09

The verdict has cost the Australian

government its one-seat majority

0:33:090:33:12

in parliament and a by-election

will now be held in December.

0:33:120:33:15

Four other politicians have also

been ruled ineligible

0:33:150:33:17

to remain in parliament.

0:33:170:33:20

President Trump has declassified

almost 3000 documents related

0:33:220:33:25

to the assassination

of John F Kennedy in 1963.

0:33:250:33:33

But Mr Trump decided to keep

hundreds of other files secret,

0:33:330:33:36

at least for the time being,

at the request of security agencies.

0:33:360:33:39

The President had earlier indicated

that all of the files

0:33:390:33:41

would be made public.

0:33:410:33:45

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

0:33:450:33:48

Here's some sport now

with John Watson.

0:33:480:33:54

The Rugby League World Cup will get

under way in Melbourne.

0:33:540:33:57

England have the daunting task

of facing reigning champions

0:33:570:33:59

Australia in that opening game.

0:33:590:34:03

They haven't beaten them since 1995.

Preparations continue ahead of next

0:34:030:34:09

year's World Cup.

0:34:090:34:11

Harlequins prop Joe Marler is set

to be available for two

0:34:110:34:14

of England's three autumn

internationals next month.

0:34:140:34:16

He was suspended for striking,

but it's understood his club

0:34:160:34:18

have successfully queried

the verdict with the

0:34:180:34:20

European Cup authorities.

0:34:200:34:26

A great night ahead for Anthony

Joshua. He is looking to

0:34:260:34:32

successfully defend his world title.

You are talking to his

0:34:320:34:37

physiotherapist this morning. He

wants to become the first man to

0:34:370:34:41

hold all four world heavyweight

titles.

0:34:410:34:50

US President Donald Trump has

ordered the release of 2,800 files

0:34:500:34:52

on President John F Kennedy's

assassination.

0:34:520:34:54

But he blocked the release

of other files, citing

0:34:540:34:56

national security concerns.

0:34:560:34:58

Senior administration officials

did not say what the contents

0:34:580:35:00

of the records being shared

by the National Archives

0:35:000:35:02

yesterday were.

0:35:020:35:03

So what will we learn

from the JFK files?

0:35:030:35:05

This short film explains more.

0:35:050:35:09

I don't think anybody should be

looking for any bombshells.

0:35:100:35:12

There won't be a document pointing

to a second gunman in Dallas.

0:35:120:35:16

I think all of the most credible

evidence we have all these years

0:35:160:35:19

shows that Lee Harvey Oswald

was the gunman in Dealey Plaza and

0:35:190:35:22

almost certainly the lone gunman.

0:35:220:35:25

But I think there is a real question

as to whether or not other people

0:35:250:35:32

knew he was going to do this

and encouraged him to do this.

0:35:320:35:35

You know, he was not the pure lone

wolf that the US government

0:35:350:35:38

tried to portray him as.

0:35:380:35:38

To my mind, this has always been

sort of the secret chapter

0:35:400:35:43

of the Kennedy assassination drama.

0:35:430:35:44

Why did Lee Harvey Oswald,

who was a self-proclaimed Marxist,

0:35:440:35:48

a champion of Castro's revolution,

go to Mexico City just several weeks

0:35:480:35:50

before the assassination,

where he met with Cuban spies,

0:35:500:35:54

Russian spies and other people who,

at the height of the Cold War,

0:35:540:35:57

might have wanted to see

Kennedy dead.

0:35:570:36:01

There is evidence out there that

Oswald, while he is in Mexico City,

0:36:030:36:06

openly talked about killing Kennedy.

0:36:060:36:09

The question becomes whether or not

any of those people offered

0:36:090:36:11

to help him or give him

encouragement, or offered to help

0:36:110:36:14

him escape after the assassination.

0:36:140:36:17

It's very clear that

the United States government never

0:36:170:36:20

wanted to get to the bottom of that

because, if they had,

0:36:200:36:23

it would have exposed just how much

more the government had known

0:36:230:36:26

about the assassin before

the assassination.

0:36:260:36:30

The question has always been

what more did the CIA know

0:36:320:36:35

about Oswald in real-time,

just several weeks before

0:36:350:36:37

the assassination?

0:36:370:36:39

It's going to take weeks or months,

or even years, to really

0:36:400:36:43

understand these documents.

0:36:430:36:45

They will be filled with CIA and FBI

codenames, pseudonyms and a lot

0:36:450:36:49

of jargon that people just aren't

going to be able to understand.

0:36:490:36:52

We're talking about hundreds

of thousands of pages of documents.

0:36:520:36:59

This is going to take a long while.

0:36:590:37:07

After 10.30 we will be talking to a

woman who was at the scene of the

0:37:070:37:12

assassination when she was aged just

11.

0:37:120:37:16

Spain's political crisis

is likely to deepen

0:37:160:37:20

today if - as expected -

0:37:200:37:22

the Spanish senate gives the go

ahead to government plans to regain

0:37:220:37:25

control of the region of Catalonia.

0:37:250:37:26

Madrid wants to trigger an article

in the Spanish constitution that

0:37:260:37:29

suspends devolution in autonomous

regions - and say it's the only way

0:37:290:37:32

to calm the political

crisis in the region.

0:37:320:37:34

Yesterday, the Catalan regional

parliament debated a possible

0:37:340:37:36

declaration of independence,

but failed to reveal

0:37:360:37:38

a favoured course of action.

0:37:380:37:39

So how did we get here?

0:37:390:37:44

On October the 1st a referendum

on Catalan independence

0:37:440:37:46

was held in the region,

despite the poll being

0:37:460:37:48

ruled unconstitutional

by the country's supreme court.

0:37:480:37:55

National police were brought

into try and stop the vote

0:37:550:37:57

from going ahead, leading

to violent clashes.

0:37:570:38:04

Catalan authorities say just under

90% of voters backed independence,

0:38:040:38:08

although only 43% of voters took

part.

0:38:080:38:10

After the vote Catalonia's leaders

declared independence,

0:38:100:38:11

but then suspended it immediately.

0:38:110:38:14

Spain's Prime Minister responded

by announcing plans to remove

0:38:140:38:16

the region's current leaders

and hold fresh elections

0:38:160:38:18

there as soon as possible.

0:38:180:38:24

It is these plans that could be

given the approval later today.

0:38:240:38:28

Raphael Minder is a journalist

and author of the book

0:38:280:38:30

The Struggle for Catalonia -

he joins me from Madrid.

0:38:300:38:35

Rodrigo Martinez lives in Catalonia

and did not vote because he did not

0:38:350:38:44

think the referendum was legal. He

does not think that Catalonia should

0:38:440:38:48

have independence. Raphael, this is

so confusing, the situation. First

0:38:480:38:54

of all, Catalonia declares

independence, then it says it is not

0:38:540:38:59

going to happen. Tell us what is

going on behind the scenes because

0:38:590:39:02

this confusion.

First, I am actually

in Barcelona, just outside the

0:39:020:39:09

parliament of Catalonia, where we

are going to have another dramatic

0:39:090:39:12

day, I fear. It is confusing. This

is brinksmanship, last-minute

0:39:120:39:20

attempts to get a political deal,

knowing that what comes next is

0:39:200:39:26

very, very dangerous territory for

both sides. As you mentioned, the

0:39:260:39:31

Government in Madrid is asking today

the Senate to put into place

0:39:310:39:34

emergency measures under an article

in the Constitution that has never

0:39:340:39:39

been tested before, article 155,

which Spaniards are now discovering,

0:39:390:39:43

the same way as British people

discovered Article 50 of the Lisbon

0:39:430:39:48

Treaty following the Brexit

referendum. Yesterday, and this has

0:39:480:39:54

been the case for several days, we

saw last-minute attempts to avoid

0:39:540:39:57

this situation reaching this climax.

This has been the way all along. It

0:39:570:40:04

is a game of chicken in which

beach-side knows it cannot take full

0:40:040:40:10

responsibility for what comes next,

in which the separatists are pushing

0:40:100:40:15

for a declaration of Independence,

knowing that they can declare what

0:40:150:40:20

they want but the government in

Madrid has the power to make sure

0:40:200:40:23

there is no independence in

Catalonia and, in fact, return

0:40:230:40:26

Catalonia to a situation where it

loses the autonomy that it has had

0:40:260:40:29

for 40 years and perhaps a major

shake-up of the whole setup of

0:40:290:40:35

Spain, the post-Franco setup that

was achieved with a great deal of

0:40:350:40:40

pain in the late 70s.

Roderigo, we

heard their Raphael describing it as

0:40:400:40:46

a game of chicken. As a voter and

somebody who decided not to vote in

0:40:460:40:50

a referendum because you don't

support independence, how do you

0:40:500:40:53

feel about how the politicians are

playing around with this right now?

0:40:530:40:59

Well, I totally agree. I think the

politicians right now are playing

0:40:590:41:08

with us, playing with people. I

think they only want to win more

0:41:080:41:17

supporters. In Madrid, they want

supporters for Spanish union. In

0:41:170:41:22

Catalonia, they want supporters for

the issues. So, I think the people

0:41:220:41:34

are very tired of the situation,

this play that the politicians are

0:41:340:41:42

doing in Spain. I think the

important point here is that people

0:41:420:41:48

are tired.

So, Raphael, explain what

will happen if the Spanish

0:41:480:41:55

government decides to take control

back away from a region that

0:41:550:41:59

currently is autonomous.

Realistically, in day-to-day terms,

0:41:590:42:01

what does that mean for people

living in Barcelona?

Well, we don't

0:42:010:42:06

know, realistically. What are the

measures say is that the Government

0:42:060:42:11

can do a whole series of things but

need not do them all. What the

0:42:110:42:15

government that was asking for his

permission to basically step in.

0:42:150:42:19

Exactly how it does that isn't

clear. What we know is that the

0:42:190:42:23

Government of Mariano Rajoy has said

it will remove the leadership of

0:42:230:42:29

Catalonia. Doing that in practice

is, in itself, a very converted

0:42:290:42:35

thing. We don't know if the current

leadership, led by Carles

0:42:350:42:39

Puigdemont, will step back and agree

to do so, or whether they will have

0:42:390:42:44

to step out handcuffed with police

are stepping into the government

0:42:440:42:48

building in Barcelona, perhaps

surrounded by angry crowds. This is

0:42:480:42:51

step one. Step two is even more

complicated, taking charge of the

0:42:510:42:56

autonomous police force. Again, we

don't know how easy that will be.

0:42:560:43:02

What we know is that referendum Day,

October the 1st, the Catalan police

0:43:020:43:06

force basically did not put into

force the orders given by Madrid to

0:43:060:43:12

shut down all polling stations,

which is why we then got into the

0:43:120:43:15

terrible mess where Spanish police

clashed with voters. Taking charge

0:43:150:43:19

of a police force raises all sorts

of issues about the loyalty of the

0:43:190:43:26

security forces. That is very, very

dangerous territory indeed. Then

0:43:260:43:30

there are a series of other

measures, including taking charge of

0:43:300:43:34

the Public broadcasting in

Catalonia. Whether that means just

0:43:340:43:41

changing the equivalent of the

director of the BBC or perhaps

0:43:410:43:44

changing some of the presenters, the

anchors and so on, we don't know.

0:43:440:43:50

Any of these steps, it is a

minefield in which the Government of

0:43:500:43:53

Madrid is stepping in with great

powers and authority, but without

0:43:530:43:57

any guidance and no precedent in

terms of exactly how you do it.

0:43:570:44:03

Roderigo, do you worry about the

things outlined there?

No, I think

0:44:030:44:08

if the law as an article, Article

155, I think you can apply it. It is

0:44:080:44:21

not impossible. Maybe it is not an

easy issue. But you can apply. We

0:44:210:44:25

have public workers, they are not

politicians. We do not need

0:44:250:44:34

politicians to administrate the

state. We have administrative

0:44:340:44:38

workers. So, in an ideal situation,

maybe six months, six months of

0:44:380:44:53

central government administrating

Catalonia and then elections again.

0:44:530:44:58

I think it is not a very big deal.

Maybe the people are afraid of the

0:44:580:45:08

situation, of the application of

that law. I think we cannot fear

0:45:080:45:17

about the law.

0:45:170:45:20

Oriol Margo Moreno is an industrial

engineer from Barcalona who voted

0:45:200:45:23

for independence via post,

as he lives here in the uk.

0:45:230:45:24

Tell me what you make of what is

happening right now and the

0:45:310:45:34

possibility of the autonomy being

removed from Catalonia.

0:45:340:45:40

I think Catalonia and Spain have

been trying to get some Catalonian

0:45:400:45:49

integration in Spain for some years

and it hasn't been possible. It

0:45:490:45:52

started quite a few years ago, and

now I think it has reached a point

0:45:520:45:56

of no return. We have seen a

positive campaign in Scotland, like

0:45:560:46:05

together we are better, but this

hasn't happened in Catalonia. Today,

0:46:050:46:09

I think there will be a potential

declaration of Independence after

0:46:090:46:15

the referendum that happened on the

1st of October, where people were

0:46:150:46:19

trying to go and cast their votes

than they were met by police with

0:46:190:46:25

batons. You can't ask people not to

go into the streets to be able to

0:46:250:46:33

say what they want.

I want to bring

this to you, because in the last few

0:46:330:46:40

moments, the Spanish prime minister,

Mariano Rajoy, has asked the Senate

0:46:400:46:44

today pose the Catalan leader, Mr

Puigdemont. Do you worry, Roderigo,

0:46:440:46:52

as a result of this and what could

happen in the next few hours, that

0:46:520:46:56

violence could return to the

streets, as we saw on the day of the

0:46:560:46:59

referendum?

I hope not. I hope the

people will continue peacefully. The

0:46:590:47:12

great majority of people in

Catalonia, now we're working, so we

0:47:120:47:21

don't want that instability. We want

to go back to stability in

0:47:210:47:30

Catalonia. And confidence.

Oriol, do

you think there is a danger that

0:47:300:47:35

could be more violence on the

streets?

It is surprising what I

0:47:350:47:41

heard from Roderigo. I don't think

there will be any violence from

0:47:410:47:46

citizens. That has been no violence

from citizens in Catalonia in any

0:47:460:47:50

other demonstrations. We have had

demonstrations every year with

0:47:500:47:54

millions of people and there is no

violence. Violence only came when

0:47:540:47:57

they sent riot police. If there is

any, it will be because the riot

0:47:570:48:03

police will initiate it. We have

seen people in the images holding

0:48:030:48:07

hands like this. I don't think there

will be violence unless the Spanish

0:48:070:48:14

Government thinks that they need to

send the police.

Oriol, are you

0:48:140:48:21

frustrated with your politicians

right now?

I am frustrated with the

0:48:210:48:26

situation because I think no one

should ignore that there are

0:48:260:48:29

millions and millions of people in

Catalonia demanding something

0:48:290:48:32

different and they are not being

listened to. I am not frustrated at

0:48:320:48:37

what is happening, because I think

it is a legitimate way to seek these

0:48:370:48:43

ambitions, and I think we should

listen. It cannot be ignored. And

0:48:430:48:47

that's why democracy is there. If

this is not what you like, democracy

0:48:470:48:54

is the way forward, and that means

ballot boxes. That is what happened.

0:48:540:49:05

I think Madrid is potentially afraid

to hear what they don't want to.

0:49:050:49:12

Thank you for joining us today on

the programme, gentlemen.

0:49:120:49:18

The disclosure of childhood criminal

records can impact on jobs,

0:49:180:49:21

visas and house buying -

is a report today right to say

0:49:210:49:24

the rules should be relaxed?

0:49:240:49:29

He went from just another

boy at a boxing club,

0:49:310:49:33

to Olympic Champion

to global superstar.

0:49:330:49:37

Tomorrow night, in Cardiff,

Anthony Joshua, bids to defend his

0:49:370:49:44

crown as World Heavyweight Champion

against the Frenchman Carlos Takam.

0:49:440:49:48

This time, his preparations

have been disrupted,

0:49:480:49:50

because his original opponent

Kubrat Pulev pulled out

0:49:500:49:52

through injury, leaving Takam

to come in at short notice.

0:49:520:49:57

Joshua has a lot to live

up to this weekend.

0:49:570:50:00

His last fight with Vladimir

Klitschko went down as one

0:50:000:50:02

of the best in history,

as he picked himself off the canvas

0:50:020:50:05

to win the WBA belt in heroic style.

0:50:050:50:09

Here's a short clip from a BBC

documentary about that

0:50:090:50:12

fight with Klitschko -

Anthony Joshua: The Road

0:50:120:50:18

To Klitschko - where we can see how

Joshua prepares on fight day...

0:50:180:50:22

# Run, run

0:50:320:50:33

# Run, run.#

0:50:330:50:38

On fight day, there's

pull-outs in every paper.

0:50:380:50:41

You know, six, eight-page pull-outs.

0:50:410:50:44

That doesn't happen in boxing.

0:50:440:50:48

It's the sort of thing that

happens in World Cups

0:50:480:50:50

and European Championships.

0:50:500:50:52

That's when it suddenly really

dawns, tonight's the night.

0:50:520:50:55

But he is so relaxed

about everything.

0:50:550:51:00

You know, the one phrase I hear him

say a lot is, no stress.

0:51:000:51:06

Boxing's tough enough

as it is and if you're

0:51:060:51:08

not going to enjoy it,

you might as well give it up.

0:51:080:51:11

LAUGHTER

0:51:110:51:12

So I don't think having

a little laugh will deter from me

0:51:120:51:18

having the ambition to go out

there and perform.

0:51:180:51:21

LAUGHTER

0:51:210:51:27

It's like the last

little MOT before we take

0:51:270:51:29

the car on the track.

0:51:290:51:32

What I'm trying to do

is just go with the flow.

0:51:320:51:37

I'm here, I'm at peace,

this is what I've been working for.

0:51:370:51:40

Let's just go out

there and have fun.

0:51:400:51:47

Let's talk now to Rob Madden, who's

Anthony Joshua's Physiotherapist

0:51:470:51:50

and is at the hotel in Cardiff

with his team now,

0:51:500:51:52

and Barry Jones is a Former WBO

Superfeatherweight World Champion.

0:51:520:52:00

Thanks, both, for coming in. I want

to start with Rob if I can. First of

0:52:000:52:06

all, how disruptive was it for

Anthony Joshua to have this change

0:52:060:52:09

of opponent at a pretty late a la?

First of all, thanks to Takam for

0:52:090:52:21

stepping in, it takes a big man to

do that. Training wise, it doesn't

0:52:210:52:24

change much. The heavyweight game is

tough, and Rob and AJ have put in

0:52:240:52:33

the necessary training to prepare

for a slightly different style.

Is

0:52:330:52:38

Takam and easier or more difficult

opponent, in the view of your team?

0:52:380:52:45

There is not much of a difference

between them in the rankings, and

0:52:450:52:48

both of them bring different assets

to the ring, so I wouldn't

0:52:480:52:52

necessarily say one fighter was

better than the other. In the

0:52:520:52:56

heavyweight game, you have to be

prepared that anyone has the ability

0:52:560:52:59

to really cause damage.

Barry, I

want to bring you in, because it is

0:52:590:53:05

all about pressure at this point,

isn't it? After that incredible

0:53:050:53:09

fight against Wladimir Klitschko,

Anthony Joshua came back, he was the

0:53:090:53:13

hero. The pressure is on him - is

that the main issue to deal with

0:53:130:53:16

going into one of the sites?

For any

boxer, but someone as popular as

0:53:160:53:23

Anthony Joshua, the pressure is

immense. You saw how relaxed ears.

0:53:230:53:27

What he is. He believes in himself,

and that's what he he worries about.

0:53:270:53:32

I think he just concentrates on what

he has to do, and he's good enough.

0:53:320:53:35

He doesn't have to worry about the

change of opponent, except for the

0:53:350:53:42

height and reach.

He's a lot

shorter, isn't he?

About three

0:53:420:53:47

inches shorter. That's an easy

adjustment for Anthony Joshua,.

0:53:470:53:51

Because he is so good with the left

arm, an important weapon for any

0:53:510:53:56

heavyweight, and he has mastered

that punch, that is all he needs to

0:53:560:53:59

worry about. If he does that, it is

a relatively easy night for him.

How

0:53:590:54:03

does he deal with pressure? Give as

a sense of what he is doing today.

0:54:030:54:12

Really, we try to keep everything

relax. He has his close friends

0:54:120:54:15

around him. He is getting ready for

the way in -- weigh-in. And he will

0:54:150:54:31

just focus on the last bits of

preparation.

Is it easier to get

0:54:310:54:40

ready for this fight than it was for

the Wladimir Klitschko fight, which

0:54:400:54:46

was so huge?

Just before, I said the

heavyweight game is a tough game.

0:54:460:54:54

You can't take anything for granted,

and it is 100% focused, always.

I

0:54:540:54:59

was reading what Anthony Joshua were

saying a few days ago, saying he

0:54:590:55:03

thinks he could dominate the sport

for the next ten years - is that

0:55:030:55:08

realistic as a heavyweight?

Ten

years, you never know who might come

0:55:080:55:11

along. Another Anthony Joshua might

come along. He is capable, he lives

0:55:110:55:15

the right life, he has the right

team behind him, which is very

0:55:150:55:22

important for any fighter, but

especially for a heavyweight, to

0:55:220:55:24

keep your feet on the ground. He is

a star, and that Klitschko win made

0:55:240:55:33

him a global superstar, and everyone

wants a piece of Anthony Joshua. Not

0:55:330:55:37

just fights, also commercially,

which will have added pressure. He

0:55:370:55:42

is relaxed and happy with himself,

and I just think he concentrates on

0:55:420:55:46

what he has to do in the ring. He

lives a very humble life for a very

0:55:460:55:51

rich young man. He goes through the

training camps as you would when you

0:55:510:55:56

were a challenger. If he keeps that

mode and that thing in his life,

0:55:560:56:02

then I think he can almost dominate.

I think now, he is the best

0:56:020:56:07

heavyweight in the world. Until

Tyson Fury comes back, he is the

0:56:070:56:10

only guy who can rival him right

now. Apart from that, I think he

0:56:100:56:14

beats everyone who is put in front

of him.

What about the pressure? A

0:56:140:56:19

crowd of 78,000 people will be

there. For Anthony Joshua, not a

0:56:190:56:25

problem. Takam - will it affect him?

It might, but once the bell goes, it

0:56:250:56:32

all goes away. When you have a

monster like Anthony Joshua in front

0:56:320:56:35

of you, you don't worry about people

outside the ring, you got enough

0:56:350:56:39

problems inside it. I think Joshua

is used those big crowd. He will

0:56:390:56:45

probably enjoy this more than the

which coat fight, because he goes in

0:56:450:56:51

not as the underdog. -- more than

the Klitschko fight. It is the

0:56:510:57:04

chance of a lifetime for Takam. We

know, in this way, one punch can

0:57:040:57:09

change a fight. -- in this weight

category. One shot can totally

0:57:090:57:19

change the outcome of the fight.

Takam will think that if he can get

0:57:190:57:23

close, he might cause problems. If

Joshua can dominate with the jab, he

0:57:230:57:29

can make it as easy as he wants it

to be.

Rob, clearly, Anthony Joshua

0:57:290:57:34

feels very confident going into this

fight?

Yeah, very confident and

0:57:340:57:38

calm. As Barry says, he is the same

guy was up he's taking it seriously,

0:57:380:57:43

though. He's not taking anything for

granted. 100% confidence for the

0:57:430:57:49

win, but be prepared for a decent

challenger in Takam.

Thank you for

0:57:490:57:54

speaking to us, Rob. Wishing the

best of luck. Thank you for coming

0:57:540:57:57

in as well. Now, the weather with

Simon.

0:57:570:58:00

A chilly start to the day across

many parts, but it has been a

0:58:040:58:08

glorious start for many of us. We've

had a pretty decent sunrise, as you

0:58:080:58:12

can see from this first photo. That

was sent in from Leeds, the sun

0:58:120:58:19

rising there above the horizon. That

has led many of us to have beautiful

0:58:190:58:22

blue skies this morning. It's not

the case everywhere. There are some

0:58:220:58:27

fog patches around. This is the

scene at the moment in Salford quays

0:58:270:58:31

- a proper pea souper. It is a

textbook fine day when the fog

0:58:310:58:42

clears. Some lovely sunny spells.

More of a breeze across the far

0:58:420:58:46

north of Scotland. Some cloud will

affect northern and western areas,

0:58:460:58:51

and it will be a bit chilly compared

to yesterday, temperatures of

0:58:510:58:57

10-11dC. Sunshine through Northern

Ireland and through northern England

0:58:570:59:00

once the fog clears from the

north-west. The same goes for Wales

0:59:000:59:04

in southern England. Temperatures

are down by a few deeds agrees -- a

0:59:040:59:09

few degrees compare to yesterday. A

bit of cloud in the South West will

0:59:090:59:15

clear away, leaving sunshine. The

high pressure that is giving us this

0:59:150:59:19

settled weather today will drift

further south going into Saturday,

0:59:190:59:24

meaning the wind will pick up

further across Scotland, and with

0:59:240:59:27

it, a bit more moisture, so a bit of

rain moving into the West of

0:59:270:59:31

Scotland. Quite a chilly night

again, temperatures down into single

0:59:310:59:35

figures, lower than that in the

countryside in southern and eastern

0:59:350:59:39

areas. For the start of the weekend,

quite a strong wind across northern

0:59:390:59:45

areas, gales expected. Lots of cloud

to the west, some outbreaks of rain.

0:59:450:59:51

Some of it affecting north-west

England and Wales. Sunshine through

0:59:510:59:58

many other areas through tomorrow

afternoon. Into Sunday, things start

0:59:581:00:02

to change again. Look at the cold

air, the blues moving down across

1:00:021:00:07

the UK. The cold air not quite

reaching Northern Ireland, Wales and

1:00:071:00:13

the South West, so temperatures not

falling quite as far here. They will

1:00:131:00:17

stay at around 14 Celsius. Lots of

sunshine across England, up into

1:00:171:00:23

Scotland. Maximum temperatures only

nine Celsius in the north-east, with

1:00:231:00:28

a brisk northerly wind. That would

feel quite chilly. Don't forget, the

1:00:281:00:32

clocks go back by one hour in the

early hours of Sunday morning.

1:00:321:00:36

Unless you have young kids, like me,

you get an extra hour in bed!

1:00:361:00:39

Goodbye.

1:00:391:00:41

Hello.

1:00:411:00:42

It's Friday, it's 10

o'clock, I'm Chloe Tiley.

1:00:421:00:44

The health service was just not

prepared, says a report

1:00:451:00:47

into the cyber attack which crippled

parts of the NHS earlier this year.

1:00:471:00:51

In some cases, organisations had to

resort to telephone, paper and pen,

1:00:511:00:55

apps such as WhatsApp in terms

of communicating with others.

1:00:551:00:59

So what is ransomware and how can

you protect yourself?

1:01:031:01:06

We'll be speaking to a former hacker

and to a security analyst.

1:01:061:01:10

For some who got a criminal

conviction or caution

1:01:101:01:12

while they were under 18,

a childhood mistake can affect

1:01:121:01:15

opportunities for jobs,

travel and education.

1:01:151:01:21

A report out today says it's

time the rules around

1:01:211:01:23

disclosing childhood criminal

records were relaxed.

1:01:231:01:25

We will hear from a qualified

teacher who says she cannot get a

1:01:301:01:34

job in school because of police

cautions when she was a child. We

1:01:341:01:37

will also hear from a recruiter who

says it is important for employees

1:01:371:01:41

to know exactly who they are hiring.

1:01:411:01:43

Donald Trump, following requests

from the CIA and FBI,

1:01:431:01:45

delays the release of some

of the more sensitive casenotes

1:01:451:01:48

about the assassination

of John F Kennedy.

1:01:481:01:52

We will hear from a woman who was at

the scene of the assassination when

1:01:521:01:55

she was just 11.

1:01:551:01:57

Good morning.

1:01:591:02:02

Here's Vicki in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

1:02:021:02:09

An investigation into the

cyberattack that brought down parts

1:02:091:02:11

of the NHS in May has found it

could have been prevented if basic

1:02:111:02:15

security measures had been in place.

1:02:151:02:16

The National Audit Office says

the health service wasn't

1:02:161:02:19

prepared for the attack and must

develop a clear plan to deal

1:02:191:02:22

with future threats.

1:02:221:02:28

The security minister says North

Korea is to blame for the cyber

1:02:281:02:30

attack.

Computer crime often leaves

a trace and our capabilities to

1:02:301:02:38

track that. I can't go further into

capabilities, but there are strong

1:02:381:02:41

signs that came from North Korea and

ourselves and the United States

1:02:411:02:45

agree with that.

1:02:451:02:51

The Spanish Senate is expected

to approve government plans

1:02:511:02:53

to reduce the powers of the region

of Catalonia today.

1:02:531:02:56

The Catalan authorities say

such a move would worsen

1:02:561:02:58

the political crisis -

making a declaration

1:02:581:03:00

of independence by the regional

parliament more likely,

1:03:001:03:02

though no decision

has been reached yet.

1:03:021:03:09

Thousands of children across England

are having to face extremley long

1:03:091:03:11

waiting times for mental health

treatment, according to a review

1:03:111:03:14

by Government inspectors.

1:03:141:03:18

The Care Quality Commission found

that services are too

1:03:181:03:20

fragmented and hard to access.

1:03:211:03:22

The Department of Health says

it is investing an extra

1:03:221:03:28

1.4 billion in children's

mental health services

1:03:281:03:29

over the next four years.

1:03:291:03:33

One former patient told this

programme about her experience.

1:03:331:03:36

It took a while for them to kind

of take my mental health not

1:03:361:03:40

seriously but take it into serious

consideration and it took

1:03:401:03:43

until I was sectioned

for me to get a diagnosis

1:03:431:03:45

of post-traumatic stress disorder.

1:03:451:03:48

It took a really long time for me

to kind of learn about myself

1:03:481:03:52

and about my mental health

and I kind of feel like now I'm

1:03:521:03:55

catching up on being a teenager,

being at university,

1:03:551:03:57

getting to know myself a lot better.

1:03:571:04:00

Whereas when I was a teenager,

I felt like an empty shell.

1:04:001:04:03

I didn't feel like a human being.

1:04:031:04:08

Australia's High Court has

ruled that the country's

1:04:081:04:10

deputy prime minister,

Barnaby Joyce, should be

1:04:101:04:12

disqualified from office

because he held dual

1:04:121:04:13

citizenship when elected.

1:04:131:04:16

The verdict has

cost the Australian

1:04:161:04:19

government its one-seat majority

in parliament and a by-election

1:04:191:04:21

will now be held in December.

1:04:211:04:23

Four other politicians have also

been ruled ineligible

1:04:231:04:25

to remain in parliament.

1:04:251:04:29

President Trump has declassified

almost 3000 documents

1:04:291:04:32

related to the assassination

of John F Kennedy in 1963.

1:04:321:04:36

But Mr Trump

decided to keep hundreds

1:04:361:04:38

of other files secret,

at least for the time being,

1:04:381:04:40

at the request of security agencies.

1:04:401:04:44

The President had earlier indicated

that all of the files

1:04:441:04:47

would be made public.

1:04:471:04:52

French scientists say patients

who have heart surgery

1:04:521:04:54

in the afternoon are less likely

to suffer complications than those

1:04:541:04:56

who are treated in the morning.

1:04:561:04:58

Their research, published

in The Lancet medical journal,

1:04:581:05:01

argues that the body clock makes

the heart stronger during

1:05:011:05:04

the afternoon than in the morning,

and it's more able to withstand

1:05:041:05:06

the rigours of surgery.

1:05:071:05:09

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30.

1:05:111:05:17

Here's some sport now

with John Watson.

1:05:171:05:21

The Rugby League World Cup has just

got under way in Melbourne,

1:05:211:05:24

and England are first up.

1:05:241:05:28

A fascinating opening match to the

tournament. This is the atmosphere

1:05:281:05:31

inside the rectangular stadium in

Melbourne. Kick-off is moments away.

1:05:311:05:37

14 teams competing from three

co-host countries over the next six

1:05:371:05:40

weeks. The women's tournament

running alongside the men. It all

1:05:401:05:44

builds to the double-header finale

in Brisbane on the 2nd of December.

1:05:441:05:49

It's a big moment for England. They

haven't beaten Australia since the

1:05:491:05:54

opening match of the 1995 World Cup.

How they would love to produce a

1:05:541:05:57

performance like that in Melbourne

later.

1:05:571:06:00

Scotland, Wales and

Ireland also competing.

1:06:001:06:01

Wales get their tournament under way

against Papua New Guinea tomorrow.

1:06:011:06:04

They got a a warm welcome

on arrival, expect something very

1:06:041:06:07

different on the pitch.

1:06:071:06:09

Scotland face New Zealand

in their opening match.

1:06:091:06:12

Three of 14 teams competing, spread

out over six weeks of action.

1:06:121:06:18

You can follow it all across the

BBC. There is live coverage now on

1:06:181:06:22

BBC Two at the moment. Kick-off was

scheduled for ten o'clock. It's

1:06:221:06:27

moments away now. You can watch it

all on BBC Two.

1:06:271:06:31

The rugby union world

cup is two years away -

1:06:311:06:36

England head coach Eddie Jones

selecting several new faces

1:06:361:06:38

in his squad for the autumn

internationals next

1:06:381:06:40

month with that in mind.

1:06:401:06:43

After being left out,

prop Joe Marler is now available

1:06:431:06:45

for selection for two of the three

matches after his club succesfully

1:06:451:06:48

argued his ban for striking should

start sooner than a disciplinary

1:06:481:06:51

panel had initially rulled.

1:06:511:06:52

So as Jones prepares his team,

he could recall Marler for matches

1:06:541:06:57

with Australia and Samoa,

the first of those on the 18th.

1:06:571:07:01

All eyes on the Prinicpality Stadium

in Cardiff this weekend -

1:07:061:07:08

known for hosting rugby

more than boxing.

1:07:081:07:10

Not this weekend, as Anthony Joshua

looks to successfully defend his IBF

1:07:101:07:13

and WBA world titles

against the stand-in

1:07:131:07:15

challenger Carlos Takam.

1:07:151:07:21

The pair faced off in

the Welsh capital yesterday.

1:07:211:07:23

Joshua was due to face

the Bulgarian Kubrat Pulev,

1:07:231:07:25

but he had to withdraw,

because of injury.

1:07:251:07:27

It'll be the Briton's first contest

since defeating Wladimir Klitschko,

1:07:271:07:29

at Wembley in April.

1:07:291:07:33

The mindset of the fight needs to

believe that where it was, move onto

1:07:411:07:44

the next opportunity. If I am living

off past wins, I might as give up.

1:07:441:07:49

Boxing is unforgiving. I can't lose

this fight and say I won the last

1:07:491:07:54

one, nobody cares. I've got to move

on.

1:07:541:07:59

World Number One Dustin Johnson

leads the World Golf Championships

1:07:591:08:02

in Shanghai, after a second

round nine under par 63.

1:08:021:08:04

Justin Rose is the best

placed British player,

1:08:041:08:06

four shots behind at nine under.

1:08:061:08:08

His round included this birdie

on the 16th but a bogey on the final

1:08:081:08:11

hole pegged him back by a shot.

1:08:111:08:15

Good luck to him. That is all of the

sport. Back to you.

1:08:151:08:19

Earlier we were talking about

children and adolescent mental

1:08:221:08:27

health services. The real problem

some people have in accessing them.

1:08:271:08:29

One father told us his

eight-year-old son had to wait 18

1:08:291:08:33

months to get that help. One viewer

says, heartbreaking watching your

1:08:331:08:42

report. This was my life's with

before I had to retire. It was a

1:08:421:08:47

superb job and experience. It is sad

it has ground down and all of that

1:08:471:08:51

experience is lost. Stephen got in

touch, saying I have been referred

1:08:511:08:54

to mental health services and was

contacted by a receptionist. I been

1:08:541:08:59

given an appointment in April.

Because I was contacted in two

1:08:591:09:02

weeks, officially, I am now having

treatment. But I will not have any

1:09:021:09:05

contact with any mental health

services until April. Keep those

1:09:051:09:09

thoughts coming.

1:09:091:09:12

There are few people

who could honestly say

1:09:121:09:14

they never did anything wrong

when they were growing up -

1:09:141:09:16

fighting in the playground,

stealing sweets from a shop,

1:09:161:09:23

breaking someone's window -

plenty of people would admit

1:09:231:09:25

they were things they did at some

point growing up.

1:09:251:09:28

But for some people who got

a criminal conviction -

1:09:281:09:30

or even a caution -

at a young age, those childhood

1:09:301:09:33

mistakes can follow them

for the rest of their life,

1:09:331:09:35

and seriously affect their chances

of getting a university place, job,

1:09:351:09:38

house or even visa to go

to certain countries.

1:09:381:09:41

A report out today from

Parliament's Justice Committee says

1:09:411:09:45

it's time the rules governing

the disclosure of childhood criminal

1:09:451:09:47

records were relaxed.

1:09:471:09:50

It suggests some sexual or violent

offences committed under the age

1:09:501:09:53

of 18 should not always be

automatically flagged up in checks -

1:09:531:09:56

but would employers,

for example those recruiting

1:09:561:09:58

teachers or people to work

with vulnerable people agree?

1:09:581:10:05

We can speak now to Eleanor Jones.

1:10:051:10:08

She's a qualified teacher -

but says two police reprimands

1:10:081:10:11

from when she was a child

still on her record have stopped her

1:10:111:10:14

from getting a job in a school.

1:10:141:10:18

Noel Williams had four criminal

convictions before he was 16,

1:10:181:10:20

including for violent crimes.

1:10:201:10:22

He's now reformed but says he's been

rejected from a huge number

1:10:221:10:25

of jobs and universities

because of his record.

1:10:251:10:33

Bob Neill is chair of parliament's

Justice Committee -

1:10:331:10:36

which is calling for these reforms.

1:10:361:10:37

He's a Conservative MP

and also a former barrister.

1:10:371:10:39

And Liz Navin-Jones is a partner

at recruitment firm Baker Harding -

1:10:391:10:42

they work in recruitment

across numerous industries

1:10:421:10:44

but also have a particular

specialism in education.

1:10:441:10:52

Thanks for taking the time to talk

to us. First, Noel, talk to us about

1:10:521:10:58

what you did as a young person, your

convictions and how it has affected

1:10:581:11:03

you in later life?

I am some of the

debt grew up in social housing and I

1:11:031:11:06

grew up around a lot of other young

men who went out and committed what

1:11:061:11:09

we would call street violence,

getting involved in gang crime, ABH,

1:11:091:11:15

affray. Further on in my life, it

has been detrimental. I applied to

1:11:151:11:20

university, many universities and

could not get in. I mean I went for

1:11:201:11:27

30-40, there is a box you have to

take about whether you have a

1:11:271:11:30

criminal conviction, I am honest and

tell people. Then it comes with a

1:11:301:11:33

risk assessment. It is not easy for

people who have committed a crime

1:11:331:11:36

when they were younger to get a risk

assessment.

So you tick the box

1:11:361:11:43

saying you have a criminal

conviction. Then you have to write

1:11:431:11:47

details about them or the university

would go and seek that out

1:11:471:11:50

themselves?

The university would

like you to ask somebody else on

1:11:501:11:54

your behalf to write the risk

assessment for you, so it's not even

1:11:541:11:58

really your talk where you can sit

down with summary. Not every young

1:11:581:12:01

person has somebody to go to and get

a risk assessment from. When you

1:12:011:12:04

want to change your life, as I did,

getting into higher education, that

1:12:041:12:08

is something that is stopping you.

It is something that is a barrier,

1:12:081:12:12

rehabilitation to what we seek for

society, to make a better, but that

1:12:121:12:16

is a barrier against rehabilitation

to further your life and go further

1:12:161:12:19

on.

Eleanor, what about you?

I

received a caution when I was 11 for

1:12:191:12:26

arson. I received a caution for ABH

when I was 14. They are violent

1:12:261:12:32

crimes. Even though they are

cautions, so they are not as severe

1:12:321:12:38

as a conviction, on my record it

just shows the violent crimes.

Just

1:12:381:12:43

explain what you did.

I set fire to

a piece of toilet roll in the school

1:12:431:12:47

toilets. When I was 14, I had a

schoolgirl fight, really, just

1:12:471:12:54

scratching and pulling hair.

Obviously it is bad and I would not

1:12:541:12:58

do that now. For me, it is difficult

that this piece of paper, like Noel

1:12:581:13:04

said, it represents you. It

represents you as a criminal.

So you

1:13:041:13:12

want to get a teaching job.

I have a

teaching job, I am a teacher. It has

1:13:121:13:18

been a difficult journey. I teach

adults now because it was a real

1:13:181:13:22

barrier going into secondary

schools. I lived abroad for a while

1:13:221:13:28

and then when I came back into the

country I tried to get jobs with

1:13:281:13:31

supply agencies. The supply agencies

point Blank said to me schools do

1:13:311:13:39

not want someone with a criminal

record. So, it didn't even get to

1:13:391:13:43

the stage where it went to risk

assessment. Supply agencies need to

1:13:431:13:48

represent themselves.

I wanted to

bring in Liz Neven Jones, who works

1:13:481:13:56

for a recruitment firm. Do you think

that mistakes that were made here,

1:13:561:13:59

as we heard from three Macron

Eleanor, should always be disclosed

1:13:591:14:04

to employers? Pin well, as a

recruiter, one always has to protect

1:14:041:14:12

your client.

As the other people

said, they carry these mistakes that

1:14:121:14:20

they made as young people through

their lives. But we at the

1:14:201:14:24

recruitment stage, you have to draw

the line somewhere. You have to

1:14:241:14:29

really check out candidates. If that

information is available, if it is

1:14:291:14:34

on police records or whatever, then

you have to absolutely ensure that

1:14:341:14:41

you have done all of your checks. We

don't want people to be barred from

1:14:411:14:48

certain employment, and we don't

want people to have two be blighted

1:14:481:14:53

for the rest of their lives for

something that they did in a fit of

1:14:531:14:57

silliness when they were young. At

the same time, we do have to protect

1:14:571:15:00

our clients. If that information is

there, you cannot deny it is there

1:15:001:15:05

and you have to use it. As long as

the acts are as they are, the 1974

1:15:051:15:13

act, that, I'm sorry, it has to be

the case.

1:15:131:15:21

Noel, do you want to speak to Liz?

I

know that he and his committee are

1:15:211:15:27

working hard, and I understand the

woman's opinion there, and what I

1:15:271:15:33

get from the report is that there

are certain crimes, sexual and

1:15:331:15:38

violent crimes, then clearly come

over for whatever industry

1:15:381:15:40

violent crimes, then clearly come

over for whatever industry you are

1:15:401:15:41

going into, we need that

transparency. I agree with that

1:15:411:15:44

myself. Also, ethnically, there are

certain crimes that people commit,

1:15:441:15:50

which are more persistent in certain

areas. I think not all employers

1:15:501:15:56

will take the time to understand. I

understand what the woman is

1:15:561:15:59

alluding to

1:15:591:16:02

understand what the woman is

alluding to, but I don't think the

1:16:021:16:07

vetting they have is qualitative,

where they sit down and discuss what

1:16:071:16:13

it was. If you're going to read it

from a piece of paper and look at

1:16:131:16:18

arson, that doesn't look very good.

I get both points. But what we want

1:16:181:16:24

is in society is to rehabilitate our

young people to give them the best

1:16:241:16:27

chance to go forward, and I think we

need to incorporate some of what Bob

1:16:271:16:31

and his colleagues are saying into

our lives and into society, and it

1:16:311:16:34

will better us in the long run.

Bob

Neill, your committee was behind

1:16:341:16:39

this report - is that the crux of

the issue is that? It has to be not

1:16:391:16:44

such a simplistic system. If you

tick a box saying you have a

1:16:441:16:50

criminal conviction, sometimes

attends there.

That is entirely

1:16:501:16:54

right, and it is part of the problem

with a tick box culture, and it is a

1:16:541:16:59

cover your back culture from the

person doing that sift, and they

1:16:591:17:03

don't take it any further.

Ultimately, it is possible to get

1:17:031:17:09

through that process, but it is a

struggle. And we have lots of

1:17:091:17:13

evidence to that account. Lots of

people don't move past that stage,

1:17:131:17:15

and we think that is wrong. There

will always be instances when the

1:17:151:17:20

conviction is relevant, and that

meets Liz's point. If someone has

1:17:201:17:25

stolen money and they are being

interviewed for a job where they

1:17:251:17:29

would be handling money, it might

well be relevant. If it was bad

1:17:291:17:33

behaviour of a sexual or violent

kind and you would be dealing with

1:17:331:17:39

vulnerable people, that would be

relevant. We're talking particularly

1:17:391:17:43

about offences committed by children

who are then moving on beyond that.

1:17:431:17:49

So we want a separate system to deal

with children from adult offenders.

1:17:491:17:54

And we also think that the law,

which is piecemeal, needs to be

1:17:541:17:59

simplified so that you have a system

whereby things are not automatically

1:17:591:18:04

disclosed, they are disclosed where

they are relevant. And in deciding

1:18:041:18:09

that, you take into account the

nature of the offence, not just the

1:18:091:18:14

title, how long ago it was, and how

seriously the court regarded it. If

1:18:141:18:19

they gave conditional discharge for

it never even went to court and was

1:18:191:18:22

dealt with through a caution, that

is less serious in the scheme of

1:18:221:18:26

things than someone who to custody.

It doesn't make it right, but it is

1:18:261:18:32

being proportionate about the risk

for the future.

Liz, does that make

1:18:321:18:36

sense from an employer's

perspective?

It certainly makes

1:18:361:18:41

sense, and in an ideal world, it

would be set up so that any

1:18:411:18:46

information we did receive, we could

then qualify yet and quantify it. As

1:18:461:18:51

it stands at the moment, the 1974

act was reformed in 2014, I think.

1:18:511:19:00

Bob will know better than I do. So

certain convictions, the spent

1:19:001:19:05

period on them was lowered,

precisely for these reasons that Bob

1:19:051:19:09

is pointing out. To have committed a

crime at a young age and then to

1:19:091:19:15

have to carry through the rest of

your life is obviously going to be

1:19:151:19:20

detrimental, but it is only for

certain industries, only certain

1:19:201:19:27

sections of employment that they do

carry those through. The others are

1:19:271:19:32

spent, they are finished. If you are

cautioned for stealing apples when

1:19:321:19:36

you were six years old, that doesn't

necessarily carry through to any

1:19:361:19:42

employment that you would be looking

for. It would only be, as Eleanor

1:19:421:19:47

was saying, in teaching, dealing

with children. All that information

1:19:471:19:51

has to be given to clients. From our

point of view, from a recruiter's

1:19:511:19:57

point of view, as I said before, if

the information is there, we would

1:19:571:20:01

be negligent not to use it. As

Eleanor was saying, the supply

1:20:011:20:08

agencies were very cautious about

putting her in a school because she

1:20:081:20:14

had those awful black mark, albeit

seemingly unjust, but that is the

1:20:141:20:17

way it is at the moment. If Bob can

change things in Parliament so that

1:20:171:20:21

we can clearly no where we can use

information of where we can't, then

1:20:211:20:27

that would be the ideal world. I

don't want to see these young people

1:20:271:20:34

blighted, as I said, for the whole

of their lives because of one silly

1:20:341:20:37

act that they committed when they

were a little bit worse for wear

1:20:371:20:43

after their first sample of a glass

of cider or whatever. We want to

1:20:431:20:47

have information. We can't deny in

the 21st century that information is

1:20:471:20:54

plentiful, and if employers didn't

have that information given to them,

1:20:541:20:56

they were going -- they are going to

find it out anyway. Information,

1:20:561:21:03

nowadays, is something we can't deny

we're going to have more and more

1:21:031:21:07

of, and candidates coming to look

for jobs, looking for houses or

1:21:071:21:11

going to universities, if they have

committed these offences, they have

1:21:111:21:15

to carry them through their lives

and explain them very coherently.

1:21:151:21:19

Let me read this e-mail that has

from Andrew. Thanks for getting in

1:21:191:21:23

touch, Andrew. He says: I was 16 and

got caught doing graffiti on our

1:21:231:21:30

bus. I had a tussle with a conductor

and we both hit each other. In

1:21:301:21:35

court, they offered to lower the

fine if I admitted assault. Almost

1:21:351:21:41

30 years on, I still had to explain

this in job interviews.

I think

1:21:411:21:46

that's the problem. I understand

Liz's point, but since 2014,

1:21:461:21:50

although there was some reform, it

was piecemeal, as I said, and since

1:21:501:21:54

then there has been the decision of

a Court of Appeal in 2016 that says

1:21:541:22:00

the current system, especially in

relation to young people, is, in

1:22:001:22:03

their words, disproportionate and

not in line with human rights law.

1:22:031:22:08

We need the Government to update the

law to reflect that, so that it

1:22:081:22:14

takes into account the nature of the

offence, how long ago it was.

1:22:141:22:19

Evidence shows that young people

move away from crime as they mature

1:22:191:22:22

and get into their 20s. The best way

to make sure people don't fall back

1:22:221:22:27

into crime is to get them back into

employment or education and get them

1:22:271:22:32

stable housing. We found this was

getting on the work -- in the way of

1:22:321:22:36

people getting on housing lists,

leaving them unable to drive for a

1:22:361:22:40

job they were going to go for. 30

years after the fact, should people

1:22:401:22:48

be explaining something which

happened when they were 16?

What

1:22:481:22:50

about people at home who say that

they understand Eleanor and Noble

1:22:501:22:58

explaining their mistakes of the

past, but the parent of a child

1:22:581:23:05

going to the school, they might say,

the crime is nonetheless arson, and

1:23:051:23:12

I don't want that person teaching my

child. Can you understand that

1:23:121:23:15

viewpoint? I'll let Eleanor respond

and then you go ahead. She did a

1:23:151:23:21

sharp intake of breath!

Obviously, I

can see it from the parents' point

1:23:211:23:27

of view, but as an 11-year-old, you

don't think about consequences of

1:23:271:23:32

your actions. You do stupid things.

Not only that thing that has now

1:23:321:23:37

affected me for the rest of my life,

there are many things I wouldn't do

1:23:371:23:42

now as a grown-up, as a 28-year-old,

that I did when I was 11. I don't

1:23:421:23:47

play hide and Seek, for example.

When I was 14 and all the hormones

1:23:471:23:53

and things... Yeah, and having a

fight with another girl, I wouldn't

1:23:531:24:00

do that now. I see the point, but

yeah.

I fully understand and get

1:24:001:24:07

what you're saying, but we have

behavioural schools, and lots of

1:24:071:24:14

ex-offenders were there, because the

young people are displaying the

1:24:141:24:18

behaviour they identify with. They

have changed their lives and

1:24:181:24:21

understand where things are going,

and it is all right for people to

1:24:211:24:24

work in those type of schools but

not in mainstream schools. There is

1:24:241:24:28

something fantastic that came from

the report, which I want to

1:24:281:24:32

highlight, which said that we should

maybe look to extend the time to the

1:24:321:24:36

age of 25. As you said, Bob, most of

the evidence says that people when

1:24:361:24:40

they get into their early 20s, have

a child, get a job or have something

1:24:401:24:45

that takes them away from crime, I

just want to say if you have

1:24:451:24:49

committed a crime at 16 and we have

a lengthy extension to 25, you could

1:24:491:24:57

get university done, make the first

step on your career, and the one has

1:24:571:25:00

to know anything. If all you have to

talk about is that you got a

1:25:001:25:07

conviction and you can't get into

education or employment, if we turn

1:25:071:25:10

it around and look at

rehabilitation, we could get better

1:25:101:25:15

numbers.

Thank you for coming in and

sharing your experiences.

1:25:151:25:23

As a report says that the NHS was

underprepared for a cyber attack, we

1:25:231:25:29

hear about how a repeat attack can

be prevented, and how you can

1:25:291:25:33

prevent yourself -- protect

yourself.

1:25:331:25:37

English football really isn't

renowned for its success

1:25:371:25:39

at World Cups, but tomorrow evening

in Kolkata England's Under 17s

1:25:391:25:41

will be playing Spain

in a World Cup Final.

1:25:411:25:44

The side beat Brazil 3-1

in Wednesday's semi-final -

1:25:441:25:51

with Liverpool youth player

Rhian Brewster scoring a hat-trick.

1:25:511:25:53

This year has already seen England's

under 20s win their World Cup,

1:25:531:25:56

while the under 19s won the European

Championships.

1:25:561:26:00

So, as the youth sides dominate -

the likely questions will be asked

1:26:001:26:04

about whether this will translate

into future success

1:26:041:26:06

for the senior side.

1:26:061:26:15

Let's talk first to Rahul Tandon.

1:26:151:26:17

He's a BBC Sport Reporter in Kolkata

who was at England's semi-final

1:26:171:26:25

and will be at tomorrow's final.

1:26:251:26:27

We can also talk to

Ian Brewster, father

1:26:271:26:28

of Rhian Brewster who scored

a hat-trick in the semi-final, and

1:26:281:26:31

Simon Bird, football writer

for the Daily Mirror

1:26:311:26:33

who focusses on youth football.

1:26:331:26:34

Ian, how proud are you right now?

Very proud. I'm only just coming

1:26:341:26:37

back down to earth, so to speak.

Clearly, you know your son is a

1:26:371:26:42

great player. You are his bad and

you support him, but are you

1:26:421:26:45

surprised by his performance in this

competition?

I would say more

1:26:451:26:49

surprised at the second hat-trick.

The first one, I spoke to him before

1:26:491:26:55

the game on Saturday, I takes at him

and said, it's about time you turned

1:26:551:27:01

up, because his performances didn't

sort of, like... Well, they

1:27:011:27:09

warranted more success, so to speak.

He rewarded me with a hat-trick.

1:27:091:27:13

What he did on Wednesday I couldn't

believe. To score another hat-trick

1:27:131:27:19

was just phenomenal.

Simon, tell us

about the semifinal. People who

1:27:191:27:23

haven't been watching, a 3-1 defeat

Brazil is no mean feat might.

It was

1:27:231:27:28

a wonderful performance. It

indicated how much progress the

1:27:281:27:33

youth ranks are making in the

England setup. They showed

1:27:331:27:36

composure, were good on the ball,

had all those English traits of

1:27:361:27:40

being athletic and quick, and Mr

Brewster was fantastic finishing as

1:27:401:27:45

well. The future is bright. Every

age group in the England setup has a

1:27:451:27:51

real club mentality. They have been

with each other from the age of 15,

1:27:511:27:55

right through the ranks, and they

know each other's strengths and

1:27:551:27:59

weaknesses, and they are proving

themselves right up there best

1:27:591:28:02

amongst in the world for their age.

The challenge is to get that

1:28:021:28:06

translate into the senior side.

What

happens, in your view, between going

1:28:061:28:10

from success in the unders category

through to full international level?

1:28:101:28:18

Is it a different mentality? Is it

hunger, and they don't have lots of

1:28:181:28:25

money, sports cars and distractions?

Money could be a part of it. The

1:28:251:28:30

biggest problem the FA recognise and

try to talk to clubs about is the

1:28:301:28:33

pathway from being a brilliant

junior at the age of 20 and then

1:28:331:28:37

getting experience in what they call

man football, not out on loan in the

1:28:371:28:42

junior leagues. These guys need to

be playing in the Premier League. At

1:28:421:28:47

the under 21 tournament in the

summer, there was a remarkable

1:28:471:28:50

statistic that showed that the

England squad had 20,000 Premier

1:28:501:28:55

League minutes under their belts,

but the Germans had 37,000 in their

1:28:551:29:02

big league. To be on top of the

world in the under 20 category and

1:29:021:29:12

then being 23 and moving on... The

clubs have a big responsibility.

1:29:121:29:16

They want to stay in the Premier

League. We have the richest clubs in

1:29:161:29:20

the world, who by players in and

don't necessarily give you the

1:29:201:29:23

chance when they should. Spurs are

leading the way. They have some

1:29:231:29:28

wonderful young players getting

opportunities now. Harry Kane and

1:29:281:29:33

Deli Alli came through the ranks and

are very young. We are an English

1:29:331:29:43

league, and it would be great if we

could see is more of these brilliant

1:29:431:29:46

under 20s coming through the ranks,

getting first-team experience in our

1:29:461:29:50

own top league.

Your son is in

getting first-team games, so then

1:29:501:30:01

there is that difficult decision. I

know that Jurgen Klopp has been

1:30:011:30:04

really impressed by your son, but is

he going to have to make a decision

1:30:041:30:08

about moving to a different club,

playing loverly, or as we heard,

1:30:081:30:12

having to sit there and hope that

Liverpool play him and give him

1:30:121:30:15

Premier League minutes?

1:30:151:30:19

At this stage, bearing in mind his

age, experience and what he's doing

1:30:191:30:23

at the moment, I think it is

something we are not focusing on in

1:30:231:30:29

his mind at this moment in time. It

is really more about his

1:30:291:30:31

development, pushing onto that next

level. I think it is bit early to be

1:30:311:30:37

saying first-team football. When you

speak to him, of course that is his

1:30:371:30:41

ultimate goal. But he knows he has

got a slightly better pathway in

1:30:411:30:45

Liverpool and he will continue in

that vein. At 16, he is playing

1:30:451:30:52

under 23 football. He was probably a

year ahead of where we thought he

1:30:521:30:59

would be at this stage. If you were

asking the same question when he was

1:30:591:31:04

19 or 20, yes, you would probably

have to start looking at things like

1:31:041:31:08

that. At this stage it is all about

his development, still enjoying the

1:31:081:31:11

game. Hopefully his exploits were

getting there sooner rather than

1:31:111:31:14

later.

Where are you watching a

game? Guillemot --

I am in Atlanta

1:31:141:31:23

at the moment. I will still be here.

I will be at my friend's house

1:31:231:31:33

watching the game.

Best of luck,

thanks for talking to us.

1:31:331:31:38

Still to come, we will be live from

Barcelona as the Spanish Prime

1:31:381:31:42

Minister Mariano Rajoy urges the

Senator to let Madrid take control

1:31:421:31:45

of Catalonia. As files on the

assassination of John F Kennedy are

1:31:451:31:51

released, we will speak to a woman

who was there on the day when she

1:31:511:31:54

was just 11.

1:31:541:31:55

Time for the latest

news - here's Vicki.

1:31:561:32:01

The Security Minister, Ben Wallace,

has publicly blamed North Korea

1:32:011:32:03

for the cyber attack which crippled

parts of the NHS in May.

1:32:031:32:07

The National Audit Office has found

that the attack could have been

1:32:071:32:10

blocked if basic IT security

measures had been in place.

1:32:101:32:19

We have capabilities in government

to track that. I can't go further

1:32:201:32:25

into our capabilities but there are

strong signs that came from North

1:32:251:32:30

Korea. Ourselves and I think the

United States also agree with that.

1:32:301:32:33

Thousands of children across England

are having to face extremley long

1:32:331:32:35

waiting times for mental health

treatment, according to a review

1:32:351:32:40

by Government inspectors.

1:32:411:32:42

The Care Quality Commission found

that services are too

1:32:421:32:44

fragmented and hard to access.

1:32:441:32:45

The Department of Health says

it is investing an extra

1:32:451:32:51

1.4 billion in children's

mental health services

1:32:511:32:52

over the next four years.

1:32:521:32:54

The Spanish prime minister,

Mariano Rajoy, has urged the Senate

1:32:541:32:56

to let Madrid take control

of Catalonia, accusing the region's

1:32:561:32:59

leaders of fracturing society.

1:32:591:33:03

The Catalan authorities say

such a move would worsen

1:33:031:33:06

the political crisis,

making a declaration

1:33:061:33:10

of independence by the regional

parliament more likely -

1:33:101:33:12

though no decision has

been reached yet.

1:33:121:33:16

Australia's High Court has

ruled that the country's

1:33:171:33:19

deputy prime minister,

Barnaby Joyce, should be

1:33:191:33:20

disqualified from office

because he held dual

1:33:201:33:22

citizenship when elected.

1:33:221:33:27

The verdict has cost the Australian

government its one-seat majority

1:33:271:33:30

in parliament and a by-election

will now be held in December.

1:33:301:33:32

Four other politicians have also

been ruled ineligible

1:33:321:33:34

to remain in parliament.

1:33:341:33:39

The UK's most senior civil servant,

Jeremy Heywood, has been treated for

1:33:481:33:51

cancer. He was diagnosed in June

according to his office and

1:33:511:33:54

treatment went well. The statement

also says that he remains totally

1:33:541:33:58

focused on his duties as head of the

civil service. That is the latest

1:33:581:34:05

BBC News.

1:34:051:34:06

Here's some sport now

with John Watson.

1:34:061:34:08

The opening game of the Rugby League

world cup is under way -

1:34:081:34:11

and what a start for England

against the co hosts

1:34:111:34:14

Australia in Melbourne.

1:34:141:34:15

Jermaine McGillvary scored this

try in the 4th minute

1:34:151:34:17

against the reigning champions.

1:34:171:34:22

They're currently lead 4-0.

1:34:221:34:26

England haven't beaten Australia

since the opening match of the 1995

1:34:271:34:30

Rugby League World Cup!

1:34:301:34:31

In rugby union, Harlequins prop

Joe Marler will be available to face

1:34:311:34:34

Australia in the Autumn

internationals on the

1:34:341:34:36

18th of November.

1:34:361:34:37

He was set to miss out,

but his club have successfully

1:34:371:34:39

argued his ban for striking should

start sooner.

1:34:391:34:43

And a big weekend ahead

for Anthony Joshua -

1:34:431:34:46

in Cardiff at the Principality

Staidum, known more

1:34:461:34:48

for its rugby than boxing.

1:34:481:34:51

He hopes to succesfully defend

the two titles he holds,

1:34:511:34:54

but he's eyeing more.

1:34:541:34:55

He wants to become the first

man to hold all four

1:34:551:34:57

heavyweight world titles,

by picking up two more belts

1:34:571:35:00

to unify the division.

1:35:001:35:05

That will most likely come next

year. That is all of the sport. Back

1:35:051:35:08

to you. We were talking earlier

about mental health services for

1:35:081:35:15

young people and adolescents. One

man spoke to us, his eight-year-old

1:35:151:35:21

son had to wait 18 months to access

the services. Once he got the help,

1:35:211:35:25

he said it was incredible, the

support and the NHS really helped

1:35:251:35:29

his son. But the 18 month wait was a

real problem. We have had this text

1:35:291:35:32

from a viewer. I want to praise the

professional, prompt treatment my

1:35:321:35:41

son received from CAMHS at the

thorny wood centre. It is one of the

1:35:411:35:49

main reasons I feel proud to be

British, the NHS. The crisis in

1:35:491:35:55

Catalonia is deepening this morning

after the Spanish Prime Minister,

1:35:551:35:59

Mariano Rajoy, asked the Senate to

approve Madrid's proposals to sack

1:35:591:36:03

the Catalan government. The Catalan

parliament could respond by

1:36:031:36:06

declaring independence unilaterally.

Tim Wilcox is in Barcelona. Bring us

1:36:061:36:13

right up to date with developments

over the last 30 minutes or so.

1:36:131:36:18

Well, actually, after weeks of

turmoil, mass demonstrations and

1:36:181:36:23

chaos, quite frankly, this Catalan

crisis is finally coming to a head

1:36:231:36:27

today. As you just said, in the last

hour, Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish

1:36:271:36:33

Prime Minister, a member of the

Popular Party has been addressing

1:36:331:36:36

the Senate, where he has a majority.

His message was stark. Breaking the

1:36:361:36:42

law, he told senators, has

consequences. So we expect the

1:36:421:36:45

Senate to vote quite soon on

invoking Article 150 five. It has

1:36:451:36:50

never been used before. The nuclear

option, that has been described by

1:36:501:36:54

many commentators. That is imposing

direct rule from Madrid over

1:36:541:36:57

autonomous region here in Spain. I

am standing outside the Catalan

1:36:571:37:02

parliament. Carles Puigdemont, the

Catalan President, has not arrived

1:37:021:37:07

yet. One of the motions they will be

voting on, we understand, is a

1:37:071:37:13

declaration of Independence,

declaring that Catalonia is a

1:37:131:37:18

sovereign, independent state and

notifying the EU about that. This

1:37:181:37:22

region is split. It is not just a

battle between Catalonia and Madrid.

1:37:221:37:26

It is an internal battle between the

people that want to be independent

1:37:261:37:30

and those that don't. I spoke to a

separatist MP as he walked into

1:37:301:37:34

Parliament today and asked if they

would actually, finally, declare

1:37:341:37:39

independence.

A declaration of

Independence, as you know, was

1:37:391:37:45

actually signed by MPs in

Parliament. It was not voted. So now

1:37:451:37:52

the vote will take place, if

everything goes as scheduled.

OK. As

1:37:521:37:57

soon as that happens, Article 155,

we understand will be imposed. What

1:37:571:38:03

then?

That depends on the Spanish

governed. That is what they have

1:38:031:38:07

threatened us with doing. They will

try to apply some of the very strict

1:38:071:38:10

measures that will in fact suspend

the Catalan home rule. The idea is

1:38:101:38:17

that it independence is already

proclaimed, the Spanish legal system

1:38:171:38:20

and whatever legal menace Mariano

Rajoy makes, that will not apply to

1:38:201:38:32

the Catalan region.

What will happen

with the ministers, the civil

1:38:321:38:38

service and the police?

We don't

know. We don't know the future.

But

1:38:381:38:42

surely, you have had years to work

out what to do in a moment like

1:38:421:38:46

this. So what are the contingency

plans?

We know what we want, we want

1:38:461:38:52

a very peaceful environment where

MPs in parliament can vote. Then we

1:38:521:38:58

can start talks with the Spanish

government in Madrid. I think that

1:38:581:39:01

would be the best thing. We have

stretched out our hand, we have

1:39:011:39:04

tried to talk for a number of times

with international mediation. It

1:39:041:39:08

hasn't been possible.

We were

speaking earlier on to voters in

1:39:081:39:13

Catalonia who were saying they were

quite frustrated by the brinkmanship

1:39:131:39:16

that seems to be going on between

the Catalonian politicians and the

1:39:161:39:22

Spanish politicians. What reaction

are you hearing?

Well, there is

1:39:221:39:28

anger among supporters of Carles

Puigdemont, the separatists. They

1:39:281:39:31

say he has bottled it, basically.

You could have declared unilateral

1:39:311:39:37

independence yesterday. At one stage

she was going to declare snap

1:39:371:39:41

elections and he pulled back. On the

other hand, you have people that

1:39:411:39:44

don't want to leave Madrid, they

want to stay part of Spain, and they

1:39:441:39:47

are furious with him. I think there

is an argument to be made that, in

1:39:471:39:52

some quarters, this is irresponsible

politics. Carles Puigdemont, who has

1:39:521:39:57

devoted his life to independence, is

always raising the bar, always

1:39:571:40:01

saying, OK, I'm going to do this,

and then stepping back from it. It

1:40:011:40:05

leads to frustration amongst his own

supporters and real anger amongst

1:40:051:40:08

those who don't want to leave Spain

because they are saying he is

1:40:081:40:12

playing with the political voters in

this region. It is a very

1:40:121:40:18

complicated, very divided society.

The Nationalists, the separatists,

1:40:181:40:21

have made it their ambition for

years and decades to be independent.

1:40:211:40:28

When it comes to finally announcing

it, they have stepped back until,

1:40:281:40:32

potentially, today. That could

finally be crunch time.

Thank you

1:40:321:40:36

for updating us.

1:40:361:40:38

An investigation has found that

a malware attack that crippled parts

1:40:381:40:41

of the NHS in May could have been

prevented if basic IT security

1:40:411:40:44

measures had been in place.

1:40:441:40:47

Nearly 7000 NHS

appointments were cancelled

1:40:471:40:49

as a result of the incident.

1:40:491:40:52

The National Audit Office said

the health service was not prepared

1:40:521:40:56

for the attack in which

criminals froze computers

1:40:561:40:58

and demanded a ransom.

1:40:581:40:59

It calls on the NHS to develop

a clear plan to deal

1:40:591:41:02

with future threats.

1:41:021:41:09

In a moment we will discuss how they

can do that. First, what is

1:41:091:41:13

ransomware and how can it be

stopped? Unite it is a malicious

1:41:131:41:17

computer virus that threatens to

destroy your files or your

1:41:171:41:20

reputation unless you pay the

criminals a fee. Some examples

1:41:201:41:26

incredible scramble your photos,

videos and documents and they can

1:41:261:41:29

only be decrypted if you pay a

ransom. Sometimes, software will

1:41:291:41:32

claim you have been caught watching

pornography or downloading illegal

1:41:321:41:36

images and threaten to e-mail all of

your contacts and expose you unless

1:41:361:41:39

you paid a ransom. Usually these

programmes impose a deadline, so if

1:41:391:41:43

you don't pay in time the ransom

goes up. Some cases of ransomware

1:41:431:41:48

are just smoke and mirrors, trying

to scare you into paying up.

1:41:481:41:52

Unfortunately, in most cases they

really do encrypt your files. That

1:41:521:41:55

means the only way to get them back

is either to resort to a back-up or

1:41:551:41:59

to cave in to their demands. When

you're dealing with blackmailers,

1:41:591:42:03

you have absolutely no guarantee

that you will get your files back or

1:42:031:42:06

that he won't get infected again.

The best way to protect yourself is

1:42:061:42:11

by following some age-old advice.

Don't open attachments or links in

1:42:111:42:15

unsolicited e-mails. Keep your

computer software patches up to

1:42:151:42:19

date. Keep a copy of all of your

important files on an external drive

1:42:191:42:22

so you have a back-up if the worst

comes to the worst and contact an

1:42:221:42:25

expert if it happens to you. You

might also be a better get some help

1:42:251:42:29

from your local police.

1:42:291:42:31

Joining me now is Kingsley

Manning, the former

1:42:311:42:33

chair of NHS Digital -

they're responsible for overseeing

1:42:331:42:35

cyber security for the NHS

in England,

1:42:351:42:39

Emily Orton, a cyber

security analyst from

1:42:391:42:41

the software company Darktrace,

and in Woking, Surrey,

1:42:411:42:46

Rob Shapland, an Ethical

Hacker from the penetration testing

1:42:461:42:48

team at First Base Technologies.

1:42:481:42:56

Thank you for speaking to us about

this today. First of all, Kingsley

1:42:571:43:03

Manning, people reading this story

will be a little bit perplexed about

1:43:031:43:05

how basic IT security wasn't

administered within the NHS.

Yes,

1:43:051:43:13

quite rightly so. It is important to

distinguish which part of the NHS we

1:43:131:43:19

are talking about. It is not a

single organisation, it is complex

1:43:191:43:22

and vulnerable to these types of

attacks. Much of the NHS was

1:43:221:43:27

completely compromised. There was no

problem for the national systems,

1:43:271:43:30

they were highly resistant and

survived the attack, and previous

1:43:301:43:33

attacks very well indeed. There was

a small part of the system which had

1:43:331:43:36

been advised to patch the system and

make the changes. They have been

1:43:361:43:42

advised several times over a number

of years to improve. But they failed

1:43:421:43:45

to do so. They represented about a

third of the trusts and about 15% of

1:43:451:43:49

GPs. It is part of the NHS that were

caught up, not as a target, but as a

1:43:491:43:56

victim of an international problem.

Emily, do you find this uprising

1:43:561:43:59

that parts of the NHS were told to

basically download something and

1:43:591:44:02

didn't?

I don't, actually. This was

an international campaign, it is not

1:44:021:44:11

just the NHS. Very large companies

were hit by this, that are much

1:44:111:44:14

better resourced and have less

excuse, probably, than the NHS. So

1:44:141:44:21

we need to bear in mind and keep

that context in our heads. Why is it

1:44:211:44:26

so difficult? Well, yes, they should

have patched. It's a bit like

1:44:261:44:30

washing your hands. It is going to

reduce your risk, it is helping you

1:44:301:44:36

protect against vulnerabilities that

the industry knows about and has a

1:44:361:44:38

patch for.

The patch, is a

time-consuming, expensive, why did

1:44:381:44:42

the NHS not do it?

As has been

mentioned, lots of disparate

1:44:421:44:49

different organisations doesn't

help. It really does depend on

1:44:491:44:55

resources.

Does it cost money, do

you have to pay for it, does it take

1:44:551:44:59

a long time? If you get an e-mail

saying you need to do that, why

1:44:591:45:02

didn't part of the NHS do it? I

don't expect you to answer on behalf

1:45:021:45:08

of the NHS?

Time is always an issue,

people have different priorities.

1:45:081:45:14

Security teams are very overwhelmed

at the moment with all sorts of

1:45:141:45:17

priorities. You've got staff,

medical staff, needing the services.

1:45:171:45:23

It is difficult. Yes, it is

completely doable, but there is

1:45:231:45:26

prioritisation.

1:45:261:45:30

Let's bring in Rob, and ethical

hacker. -- an ethical hacker. Do you

1:45:301:45:38

think this has been a good lesson

for organisations, that we have to

1:45:381:45:43

take cyber security more seriously?

I think we have lost Rob, which is

1:45:431:45:49

frustrating. Let's listen to the

security minister, Ben Wallace, who

1:45:491:45:54

has been speaking to the BBC today.

He has been talking about who he

1:45:541:45:58

believes is behind a cyber attack.

Computer crime often leaves a trace,

1:45:581:46:04

and we have capability to track

that. I can't go any further into

1:46:041:46:08

our capabilities, but there are

strong signs it came from North

1:46:081:46:13

Korea, and ourselves and also the

United States agree with that.

Are

1:46:131:46:17

you surprised that we're hearing it

is from North Korea?

It has been a

1:46:171:46:22

rumour. The evidence is always

tangential in these things. Mostly

1:46:221:46:28

they originate from eastern Europe

and beyond. This one looks like it

1:46:281:46:31

may have been criminal, but the real

worry is targeted attacks on the NHS

1:46:311:46:38

potentially through state terrorism.

This was a wake-up call to the NHS.

1:46:381:46:44

Actually, it survived rather well.

The real threat is much more

1:46:441:46:48

directed, more focused, and the NHS

had been preparing for that for

1:46:481:46:51

several years.

We were talking to

our technology correspondent earlier

1:46:511:46:57

on, and he said it was a blessing

that it happened in a Friday in the

1:46:571:47:01

month of May rather than on a Monday

in January during a flu epidemic.

1:47:011:47:09

These viruses, as in human

populations, tend to distribute

1:47:091:47:17

themselves rapidly, causing a

knock-on effect, as it did in

1:47:171:47:21

certain regions. Friday was a

blessing.

Lets try Rob again. Do you

1:47:211:47:25

think this was a good wake-up call

for people?

Yeah, definitely. The

1:47:251:47:31

attack was quite simple in the way

it got on to the systems. And as we

1:47:311:47:37

talked about, relatively simple to

prevent. The big wake-up call to me

1:47:371:47:40

was that if someone had behind

though it might be behind it rather

1:47:401:47:46

than it being automatic, they could

easily have got access to patient

1:47:461:47:52

data, NHS records, tampered with

them or publish them. It could have

1:47:521:47:54

been worse. Although it was a

damaging attack, I think we got away

1:47:541:47:58

a little bit lightly.

Let's be

clear: It was never getting near to

1:47:581:48:04

patient records, this malware. Those

systems are very secure.

It was a

1:48:041:48:25

wake-up call in that we need to make

sure the systems are up-to-date and

1:48:251:48:29

ready for this sort of attack in the

future.

Is there a sense that the

1:48:291:48:33

NHS has got a robust system in place

now and is protecting itself?

The

1:48:331:48:39

NHS faces a number of difficulties,

including resources and focus. We

1:48:391:48:46

have a large number of organisations

- over 300 hospitals, 8000 GPs, all

1:48:461:48:52

separate organisations with dozens

of priorities, of which this is one.

1:48:521:48:56

Although there is more money being

invested in cyber security, it's

1:48:561:49:00

still not enough. The third issue is

the lack of clarity. I think it is

1:49:001:49:05

right to point out that it is not

clear who takes full responsibility,

1:49:051:49:10

whether it is NHS England, the sea

QC, NHS Digital, a whole host of

1:49:101:49:16

organisations who will have a finger

in the pie, so there needs to be

1:49:161:49:22

greater clarity and focus.

It's not

good enough simply to do basics like

1:49:221:49:28

patching and hygiene. Threats are

evolving all the time. There are new

1:49:281:49:33

attack methodology is coming out

every day. You have insiders, and

1:49:331:49:36

there is no patch for that. We have

to think about security in a

1:49:361:49:43

different way. Yes, do hygiene and

patching, there is no excuse not to,

1:49:431:49:47

but you also have to have systems

like artificial intelligence, things

1:49:471:49:51

that will detect threats that are

brand-new, novel, and would never be

1:49:511:49:56

predicted by any patch or antivirus.

What about individuals? What should

1:49:561:50:01

they do to make sure they don't fall

foul of this?

It is difficult, but

1:50:011:50:06

there are good guidelines on the

Government website. Things like

1:50:061:50:11

passwords, changing them, and being

aware and sceptical of insecure

1:50:111:50:17

websites, for example. I think

holding accountable the people that

1:50:171:50:19

you trust with your data. Those big

organisations, they have huge

1:50:191:50:24

amounts of customer data, your data,

and I think if we held them up to a

1:50:241:50:28

higher degree of scrutiny, that will

push them and help to drive change

1:50:281:50:33

in the industry.

Thank you very much

for coming in.

1:50:331:50:35

In a statement, Dan Taylor,

NHS Digital's Head of Security,

1:50:351:50:38

tells us the attack in May

was "on an unprecedented scale"

1:50:381:50:40

and the NHS had "responded

admirably to the situation".

1:50:401:50:44

He added: "Doctors, nurses

and professionals from all areas

1:50:441:50:46

pulled together and worked

incredibly hard to keep frontline

1:50:461:50:48

services for patients running

and to get everything back to normal

1:50:481:50:51

as swiftly as possible."

1:50:511:51:01

Nearly 3000 classified files

on the assassination

1:51:021:51:04

of President John F Kennedy in 1963

have now been released,

1:51:041:51:07

on the order of President Trump.

1:51:071:51:09

But some documents have been

withheld at the request

1:51:091:51:12

of government agencies.

1:51:121:51:13

One memo revealed that the FBI had

warned police of a death threat

1:51:131:51:16

against the assassin Lee Harvey

Oswald.

1:51:161:51:19

The assassination has been

the subject of various

1:51:191:51:21

conspiracy theories.

1:51:211:51:22

So what will we learn

from the JFK files?

1:51:221:51:25

This short film explains more.

1:51:251:51:29

I don't think anybody should be

looking for any bombshells.

1:51:311:51:33

There won't be a document pointing

to a second gunman in Dallas.

1:51:331:51:38

I think all of the most credible

evidence we have all these years

1:51:381:51:41

shows that Lee Harvey Oswald

was the gunman in Dealey Plaza and

1:51:411:51:44

almost certainly the lone gunman.

1:51:441:51:47

But I think there is a real question

as to whether or not other people

1:51:471:51:50

knew he was good to do this

and encouraged him to do this.

1:51:501:51:56

--knew he was going to do this

and encouraged him to do this.

1:51:561:51:59

You know, he was not the pure lone

wolf that the US government

1:51:591:52:02

tried to portray him as.

1:52:021:52:04

To my mind, this has always been

sort of the secret chapter

1:52:041:52:06

of the Kennedy assassination drama.

1:52:061:52:08

Why did Lee Harvey Oswald,

who was a self-proclaimed Marxist,

1:52:081:52:10

a champion of Castro's revolution,

go to Mexico City just several weeks

1:52:101:52:13

before the assassination,

where he met with Cuban spies,

1:52:131:52:17

Russian spies and other people who,

at the height of the Cold War,

1:52:171:52:21

might have wanted

to see Kennedy dead?

1:52:211:52:24

There is evidence out there that

Oswald, while he is in Mexico City,

1:52:241:52:27

openly talked about killing Kennedy.

1:52:271:52:30

The question becomes whether or not

any of those people offered

1:52:301:52:33

to help him or give him

encouragement, or offered to help

1:52:331:52:35

him escape after the assassination.

1:52:351:52:37

It's very clear that

the United States government never

1:52:371:52:39

wanted to get to the bottom of that

because, if they had,

1:52:391:52:42

it would have exposed just how much

more the government had known

1:52:421:52:45

about the assassin before

the assassination.

1:52:451:52:53

The question has always been,

what more did the CIA know

1:52:531:52:56

about Oswald in real-time,

just several weeks before

1:52:561:52:58

the assassination?

1:52:581:53:01

It's going to take weeks or months,

or even years, to really

1:53:011:53:03

understand these documents.

1:53:031:53:05

They will be filled with CIA and FBI

codenames, pseudonyms and a lot

1:53:051:53:08

of jargon that people just aren't

going to be able to understand.

1:53:081:53:13

We're talking about hundreds

of thousands of pages of documents.

1:53:131:53:17

This is going to take a long while.

1:53:171:53:26

We can speak now to Doctor Tony

Glover, who was at the scene of

1:53:261:53:33

JFK's assassination when she was

aged just 11. She joins us from her

1:53:331:53:38

home in Pennsylvania. Thank you for

taking the time to talk to us. Just

1:53:381:53:41

take us back to that day. Did you

even understand what was going on at

1:53:411:53:45

the age of 11?

I understood, because

I watched it happen. I was 11, and I

1:53:451:53:56

wanted to go to the parade. I begged

my mother to take me to the parade.

1:53:561:54:01

My family was divorced, and I

thought if I saw Kennedy, if you

1:54:011:54:04

looked at me and wait, that somehow

I would be part of his world and all

1:54:041:54:08

my troubles would disappear at home.

So, I went there with some magic

1:54:081:54:14

thinking. They came by, and he waved

and smiled, then he turned the

1:54:141:54:20

corner and he was gone, he was dead.

It was 15 seconds between the most

1:54:201:54:27

wonderful moment in my life and one

of the worst.

So, was it the sound

1:54:271:54:34

or the site? Clearly, everything

almost happens in slow motion in

1:54:341:54:39

those moments, but what was it that

you remember specifically?

It's

1:54:391:54:45

important to understand the context.

We were at our presidential parade

1:54:451:54:52

we were celebrating, talking to

strangers. Everybody was just, you

1:54:521:54:55

know, ecstatic, and then that

happened. Downtown Dallas echoes,

1:54:551:55:03

and there were ten or 12 Harley

Davidson motorcycles on either side

1:55:031:55:09

of the cars, so hearing the exact

shots wasn't as easy as you would

1:55:091:55:13

think. I had a direct line of sight

to the car whenever his head was

1:55:131:55:21

hit, so I saw immediately what had

happened. Even so, you want to deny

1:55:211:55:26

it, and I told my mum that someone

threw fireworks at the car, but you

1:55:261:55:31

know, that only lasts for a couple

of seconds before reality sinks in.

1:55:311:55:38

What was the reaction around you

when that happened?

Confusion,

1:55:381:55:42

mostly. I was on a corner, on a

pedestal that was high, so I could

1:55:421:55:48

see all the way around Dealey Plaza

will stop most of the people on the

1:55:481:55:52

ground near me couldn't see that far

down the street, so there was a lot

1:55:521:55:56

of confusion. No one really knew

what had happened. It was mostly

1:55:561:56:04

confusion, and I got my mother out

of there and we went home as fast as

1:56:041:56:09

I could get there. You have that

when you get home you are going to

1:56:091:56:11

see something on the news that says

something graced his head, but that

1:56:111:56:16

didn't happen. We got home and saw

Walter Cronkite.

Of course. Let's

1:56:161:56:21

fast forward to Donald Trump, now

President of the United States,

1:56:211:56:28

making this decision to release

these files will stop -- release

1:56:281:56:33

these files. Four. Some files have

been withheld at the request of the

1:56:331:56:39

FBI and CIA - what do you make of

that?

First of I apologise for

1:56:391:56:44

Donald Trump. I can't apologise

enough to the world. From what I

1:56:441:56:50

have heard, the White House didn't

do the work that was necessary. A

1:56:501:56:57

law was passed that it had to be

released today, and the Secret

1:56:571:57:02

Service and others had redactions

they wanted, and the White House

1:57:021:57:05

should have been looking at those

before today so that things could be

1:57:051:57:10

released, but that didn't happen. I

don't know what they are going to

1:57:101:57:15

find in these documents. I believe

that Oswald fired from that window.

1:57:151:57:21

Being there did not give me any

insight into what happened. You

1:57:211:57:28

know, eyewitnesses are the worst

source of information that you can

1:57:281:57:31

get. I think there's a conspiracy

culture that's probably going to

1:57:311:57:38

look a fact that they can emphasise

and twist so that it supports their

1:57:381:57:44

conspiracy. I don't think the

conspiracy culture's going to go

1:57:441:57:48

away. As a matter of fact, one thing

in these documents shows that J

1:57:481:57:52

Edgar Hoover at the time said, we

need to be sure the American people

1:57:521:57:58

understand that Oswald killed the

president, because we don't want a

1:57:581:58:01

bunch of conspiracies developing.

And of course, that's exactly what

1:58:011:58:05

happened.

As you say, Doctor Glover,

conspiracy theories are likely to

1:58:051:58:12

run and run. Thank you for speaking

to us. We're very grateful you.

1:58:121:58:15

BBC Newsroom Live

is coming up next.

1:58:151:58:17

Thank you for your company today.

1:58:171:58:18

Have a good day.

1:58:181:58:23

Will be back at the same time on

Monday. -- we'll be back.

1:58:231:58:30

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