27/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

Our top story today:

We can bring you exclusive news of

early specific development in the

vaginal mesh

scandal - this programme has learned

that the health watchdog will

recommend its banned from treating

organ prolapse in England.

My husband has turned into my carer

and he's so much less of my husband.

We can't have sex.

We haven't had sex for

four and half years.

Did you have any suicidal thoughts?

You did?

Yeah.

Gosh...

I planned it, I mapped it out.

It comes after we revealed more

than 800 UK women are taking legal

action against the NHS

and the makers of

vaginal mesh implants.

If you've had a mesh,

really keen to get your

reaction this morning.

Do get in touch throughout

the programme.

Also on the programme -

we've discovered that thousands

of people in England and Wales

are being taken to court

and threatened with jail over

council tax arrears every year.

I just didn't know what to

expect, where I was.

It was absolutely horrific.

I was worrying about the kids.

Nobody can prepare you for it.

We'll bring you the full exclusive

story after 10am this morning.

Six British men jailed

in Southern India on weapons charges

will find out shortly

if they are to be freed, after

spending four years behind bars.

Wii will bring that to you live and

bring reaction from family members.

Hello - welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11.

Throughout the morning

the latest breaking news

and developing stories.

Before ten, we are going to talk to

the magnificent children's author

Dame Jacqueline Wilson, who has been

awarded the BAFTA children's special

award, in relation to her remarkable

contribution to TV, the amazing

Tracy beaker series.

If you've got a question for her do

get in touch with us this morning.

- use the hashtag Victoria

LIVE and If you text,

you will be charged at the standard

network rate.

We will talk to her at about 9:45am.

Our top story today...

Authorities in Bali have warned that

a volcano on the island

is in imminent danger

of a full-scale eruption.

Mount Agung has been sending clouds

of thick ash and smoke thousands

of feet into the air since Saturday.

The island's airport, in Denpasar,

has been closed and locals have been

ordered to leave their homes.

Andrew Plant has the latest.

Bali's most sacred mountain,

an ancient volcano rumbling back

to life with billows of black smoke.

Mount Agung has been sleeping

for more than half a century,

now awake and angry.

Experts believe a major eruption

could be about to happen.

TRANSLATION:

The volcano has entered

the magmatic eruption phase.

There is now the possibility

of a strong explosive eruption.

Those living nearby

were evacuated in September

at the first signs of activity.

Now, the exclusion zone

is a circle 12 miles wide.

The thick ash rising thousands

of metres, means many flights

to and from this popular tourist

destination have now been grounded.

All the flights were cancelled

so we're just now at the airport,

we don't know what we're doing

and we are trying to

find another flight.

In Bali, no one is

taking any chances.

More than 150,000 people

are in temporary shelters.

When the volcano last

erupted in 1963, more

than 1,000 people were killed.

This time the Indonesian government

says it is much better prepared.

Andrew Plant, BBC News.

Our Correspondent Tom

Burridge joins me now.

How imminent is imminent?

The key

thing here is experts say because

molten rock is spotted right near

the top of the volcano, that's why

they believe it could be imminent.

They say there has been increased

inactivity on Mount Agung for two

months. What's been happening is the

magma has been moving up through the

volcano, breaking up rock, heating

up water inside the volcano,

creating steam and pressure, and we

are now at the point where the

pressure is such that the rock

basically can't be held back. Some

experts think, as we say, it is

imminent, a violent full-scale

eruption, but others say it could be

possible this is a low scale

eruption over a longer period of

time.

OK, thank you very much, Tom.

We will keep an eye on it.

Annita is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the days news.

Good morning.

The families of those killed

when a stolen car crashed in Leeds

at the weekend have paid tribute

to their loved ones.

Brothers Ellis and Elliott Thornton,

aged 12 and 15, died along

with 15-year-old Darnell Harte

and 24-year-old Robbie Meerun.

Father-of-two Anthoney Armour, 28,

whose partner is pregnant

with a third child, also died

when a Renault Clio hit a tree.

Two 15-year-old boys remain

in custody on suspicion of causing

death by dangerous driving.

This programme has learned

that the health watchdog -

the National Institute for Health

and Care Excellence -

is to recommend that vaginal mesh

operations should be

banned from treating organ

prolapse in England.

Draft guidelines from NICE say

the implants should only

be used for research -

and not routine operations.

A growing number of women have

reported complications since having

the procedure, with many needing

wheelchairs, being unable

to work or to have sex.

Full reaction to come up on this

story at about 9:15am.

High-tech industries are set

to receive millions of pounds

in extra funding to boost skills

and create jobs.

It's part of the Government's

strategy to increase economic

performance post-Brexit.

Sectors including robotics,

artificial intelligence and medical

research will be targeted,

but some critics say more should be

done to help traditional skills.

Theresa May has said the Government

will fund the full cost of dealing

with the aftermath of the suicide

bombing at the Manchester Arena,

which killed 22 people in May.

It comes after the Mayor

of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham,

said the Government's initial offer

was £5 million too low -

and estimated that £28

million would be needed.

Pope Francis has arrived on the

first papal visit to me,, which has

been accused of ethnic cleansing.

The focus will be the Rohingya.

There are concerns that could spark

some potential violence if he does.

He is scheduled to meet the leader

and the head of the country's

military.

A rising number of people

are being taken to court

and threatened with prison for not

paying their council tax.

This programme found

that more than 4,800

people were taken to court

between 2016 and 2017.

That's gone up 11% in four years.

During that time, at least 62 people

were sent to prison.

The Local Government Association

said it was "essential"

to collect funds.

There are fears children

with special needs are being let

down by the education system.

An investigation by BBC Breakfast

has found a 57% increase

in the number of children

being educated at home.

Some families believe home education

is their only option.

In the first of a series

of special reports, our

Education Editor Branwen Jeffreys

looks at the challenges faced

by some of the children.

For more than a year,

Emily has been learning at home.

She's been diagnosed

with autism and ADHD.

School felt noisy and overwhelming.

A bit stressful because I don't

really like, like, a lot of loud

noises because it just makes me

really upset and I want to learn

things that I'm interested in, but,

it's like I can't learn anything

because I don't know how

to and they don't tell me how.

Emily would get angry and lash out.

Now she is on medication at home.

Her mum, Lorna, decided to home

educate after trying three schools.

I couldn't cope with her going

to school and then coming back

with her so stressed out,

so angry at me and then not wanting

to go to school the next day.

The meltdowns were horrendous

and I can't pick her up

and put her in the car

and physically take her to school.

Lorna isn't the only parent

to reach this decision.

A growing number of families

with children with special needs

are deciding to home educate.

The fear is they're doing that

because they feel let down

by the school system.

Between 2013 and 2017

there was a 57% increase in children

with special needs being home

educated, and that's just children

who have a statement

or equivalent in England,

Wales or Northern Ireland.

It's a 64% increase

if you just look at England.

Scotland has a different system,

making comparisons difficult.

I think before there was people

genuinely making a choice

because that was the right thing

for them and now there are too many

families who are saying they don't

feel like they have either option

so they're having to resort to home

education, that can't be right.

Emily is learning differently

with some extra classes.

She's happier out of schools

but misses her friends.

In England, the government says more

special education places

are being created and its putting

money into the system

to make it work better.

Branwen Jeffreys, BBC News.

Councils in England generated

£819 million in profit

from parking fees and fines

during the last financial year -

that's 10% higher than

in the previous one.

Figures obtained by the RAC

Foundation showed four of the five

councils with the largest surplus

were in London.

The Local Government Association

said income from parking went

towards essential transport projects

and repairs.

Jacqueline Wilson has picked up a

BAFTA for her contribution to

children's books. Her career has

spanned more than 35 years and she

will be speaking to Victoria later

this out. That is a summary of the

latest BBC News. More at 9:30am. And

that your question is that Dame

Jacqueline Wilson. I am sure some of

your children have read her books!

Get in touch. We have some comments

on the fact that mesh implants are

going to be banned, it looks like,

on the NHS in England for treating

patients with prolapse. This is

after we first revealed back in

April that 800 patients were suing

the NHS and the manufacturers

because of the awful problems that

have been caused to certain

patients, not everybody, but a

significant minority. Claire on

Twitter says they should not have

taken a patient uprising to get this

far but like so often in life, the

little people don't have a voice

unless they grouped together. This

is a fantastic step in the right

direction.

Another says, congratulations, it

wouldn't have happened without your

coverage. Wendy said I had a mesh

implants, so happy I did, it was

life changing. And that is true for

the vast majority of women,

according to the NHRA, the

medicine's regulatory authority, the

vast majority of people who have a

mesh implant it on with their lives

and are absolutely fine. But a small

minority have really, really severe

and serious complications on this

guidance we have obtained from NICE

highlights the serious concerns. If

you have had attempted back, let me

know about your experience on your

reaction to the news it will be

banned in England for treating

prolapse.

Let's get some sport from Jess...

As expected Australia have taken

the lead in the Ashes,

should we be surprised?

Not really a surprise.

Before this

series no one would have expected

England to get a result at the

Gabba. Australia haven't lost at

that venue in 29 years, but actually

for much of the Test it was quite

evenly contested, at least the first

three days. It seemed as though

England might just get something out

of it. But towards the end of the

series tide turned in Australia's

favour, partly due to Steve Smith's

unbeaten century. In the final day

Australia reached their target of

170 with ease. David Cameron and

Cameron Bancroft prize made

half-century as they completed a ten

wicket victory to stop despite

promising moments along the way,

England were comfortably beaten in

the end and go 1-0 down in this five

match series.

And off the field everyone is

talking about England player Jonny

Bairstow's unusual greeting for an

Australian player that he met in a

bar a month ago?

It has been dubbed

the Bairstow kiss. You would think

with the England players being under

such increase scrutiny for their off

field conduct they'd keep a low

profile, but it has come to light

there was it headbutt from Jonny

Bairstow on camera and bankrupt a

month ago when the tour began in

Perth. In the press conference both

men said there was no malice or

intent and played it down as banter.

The England coach Trevor Bayliss

says the England players have to be

smarter. Let's hear from the two men

involved.

We were just in the bar having a

good laugh and a good evening out.

It was very enjoyable. Cameron and I

enjoyed the evening and continued to

do so. There was no intent or malice

about anything during the evening.

Year, just greeted me with, yeah,

just a headbutt kind of thing. I was

expecting a handshake, but it wasn't

the greeting of choice I was

expecting. That was the way that I

took it. There was certainly no

malice in his action and we

continued on having a very good

conversation.

The second Test in Adelaide gets

underway in the early hours of

Saturday. Hopefully this incident

won't prove too much of a

distraction for the England players.

It is a day- night test, an unknown

quantity in Ashes cricket but the

unpredictability might work in

England's favour.

Thank you, Jess.

This morning, a significant

development in the mesh

implant scandal.

Eight months after we investigated

the horrific problems

being experienced by women who had

had the mesh procedure,

we can exclusively reveal

that the health watchdog

is recommending the NHS in England

ban the use of mesh for treating

women who've had a prolapse.

In April, we revealed 800 women

were suing manufacturers and the NHS

over the implants which can erode,

leave women in permanent pain,

unable to walk, work or have sex.

Now, new guidelines from NICE,

the National Institute for Health

and Care Excellence,

highlight "serious safety

concerns" with the implants,

and advise mesh should in future

only be used for research purposes.

It makes no mention of the use

of mesh for treating

incontinence or hernias.

Our reporter Anna

Collinson has the story.

In April this programme exposed

a painful secret thousands of women

were keeping to themselves.

Every time I walk it almost feels

like something sharp's inside me.

The tape had come through my vagina,

it was actually all the way through,

protruding through.

My husband has turned into my carer

and he's so much less of my husband.

We can't have sex.

We haven't had sex for

four and a half years.

They thought they were alone,

so suffered in silence for years,

unaware there were many

more like them.

Over the last five years

I counted actually, I've

had over 53 admissions,

because of agonising pain.

I phoned my husband and I said,

I can't, I can't live any more,

I can't go through this.

I actually do think,

I'm believing the doctors,

I think it's in my head, yeah.

I didn't know where else to turn.

This is a vaginal mesh.

It is used when women have prolapse

or bladder incontinence,

normally brought on by childbirth.

And it is often made

from polypropylene.

That's the same material used

to make this kind of drinks bottle.

Over the past 20 years more

than 100,000 women across the UK

have had vaginal mesh implants.

Some doctors now believe a minimum

of one in ten patients

experience problems.

I'm not just a number,

I'm somebody's partner, I'm

somebody's mum, somebody's sister.

And all these people are impacted.

Did you, can I ask, did you have

any suicidal thoughts?

You did.

Yes.

Gosh.

I planned it.

I mapped it out.

With us this morning,

a dozen or so...

Earlier this year we heard hundreds

of women were taking legal

action against the NHS.

I wonder, would you support calls

for these mesh implants

to be banned on the NHS?

Definitely.

Definitely.

Most definitely.

The simple procedure could end up

costing tens of millions

of pounds in compensation.

This was back in April.

Over the last seven months

many, many women have

told us their stories.

I just wonder how many people

are going to get crippled before

anyone listens to us.

What we go through on a daily

basis is a nightmare.

But complications with mesh can

arise in other places too.

Chances are the mesh

that was used for your hernia

was something like this.

My God.

No wonder it itches.

I mean, it's really thick.

Just like nylon.

Woah.

In July we revealed NHS England

hernia mesh repairs were leaving

many patients in chronic pain.

It's as if I've been

stabbed with something hot.

I don't want to eat.

I don't want to venture out too far.

We even arranged for two hernia mesh

patients to meet up.

Helen.

Martin.

You OK?

Yes.

And you?

Take a seat.

I've had an operation really

I didn't need, and six years'

worth of investigation.

Some gynaecologists claim a ban

on vaginal mesh implants would risk

depriving women of the option

of a treatment which,

for incontinence at least,

has been effective.

But a growing number of doctors

believe the risk is too great,

and in Scotland the use of mesh

has been suspended.

Labour have called for vaginal mesh

repairs to be banned

and for a public inquiry.

They have received

cross-party support.

Let's say it's as little as one

in ten in whom this is going wrong.

If that were a medicine,

it wouldn't be on the market.

Now this programme can exclusively

reveal the National Institute

for Health and Clinical Excellence

has effectively recommended

a ban on vaginal mesh

repairs for prolapse.

NICE say the procedure should only

be used for research.

The health watchdog was initially

going to publish its

updated guidance in 2019,

but as the spotlight intensified,

it was brought forward to December.

They say they won't

comment until then.

Campaigners are calling this latest

development a back door ban

and a historic moment,

but also say the fight

is far from over.

They want a temporary suspension

of all pelvic mesh repairs

while an audit is carried out

to find out the true scale

of the women affected.

They also want NICE to provide

advice on other types of mesh

repairs like hernias.

We can speak to Margie Maguire.

She had a vaginal mesh implant

in 2015 and as a result she can't

walk properly or have

any more children.

Kate Langley was one of the first

women we spoke to when this

programme exposed the problems

caused by mesh implants.

John Osborne is a retired

obstetrician and urogynecologist

who first raised concerns

about mesh in the 1970s.

Welcome all of you. Thank you very

much for coming on the programme.

First of all, let me get your

reaction from women who have had

this mesh implant to the news that

the health watchdog is going to tell

the NHS these implants should be

banned as a way of treating a

prolapse.

I think it's a step in the

right direction, but any mesh is

mesh in whatever surgical procedure

and it needs to be banned

across-the-board definitely.

I think

it is great news that they are doing

something, but there is a vast, you

know, a lot more women actually are

having stress incontinence mesh so

that's not going to help those

ladies, but it is fantastic news for

women that have got the type of

mesh. It is a step in the right

direction.

And yourself, John

Osborne as someone who has been

warning about this?

You have to

carefully consider how we approach

this problem. We are told that the

mesh is only causing problems in a

small percentage of cases, but that

is a significant number of people

because thousands of these things

have been put in and it has become a

quick fix solution.

So the fact that

it will be banned for the use of

prolapse, it looks like, for

patients in England, is...

Well, I

can see the logic for that and I

think we have to be careful people

are working on new meshes and they

must be looked at more carefully

than they did in the past. We

mustn't make the same mistakes we

made before.

You are in a wheelchair

because of a mesh implant for a

prolapse. Tell our audience what has

happened to you since you had this

procedure in 2015?

Yes. I had the

procedure in 2015 and the purpose of

having it was, I had a significant

prolapse and my husband and I for

four years couldn't be intimate and

we wanted to have another child, we

have one child, a six-year-old and

we were told this was the only way

to put everything back into place so

we could naturally continue. So,

with that advice we carried on and

at six weeks I had a miscarriage and

then I phoned and said you know I

have had a miscarriage and asked if

it was to do with the mesh and they

said no, it is perfectly fine. Try

again in another month and we got

pregnant again. We had scan at

seven-and-a-half weeks and the

baby's heartbeat was fine and

president baby was fine, but just

growing in an unusual position, the

baby's heart stopped, but it took

five weeks for the baby to pass

through the mesh and the baby was in

pieces. Every month I have been in

agony and I have been on the floor

in crippling pain. It has got worse

and worse. I have had several

hospital admissions. I'm on nine

different drugs to help the pain,

but on a daily basis, I am on a five

out of ten, six out of ten pain and

I have the pain attacks where

nothing can touch it. Even when I

have been in an ambulance and 2 had

20 milligrams of morphine, it can't

touch the pain. I have to sit on the

floor and breathe through it and I

have to wait for it to pass and it

can come on at any time. I have it

had to cut down what particular do

to 10% what I can do because any

movement increases the pain and...

How do you know it's the mesh?

It is

because it didn't happen before the

mesh and I have had an MRI and the

mesh is entangled into my bowel and

it is attached to my uterus in

several places. It is a mess in

there and all of that has been

pulled in different directions and

that's what is causing the pain and

how they have done the surgery, they

have wrapped the mesh around my

uterus and attached it to my spine

so it is strangling my uterus so the

babies didn't have a chance and it

is awful.

What do you think about

that?

I agree it should be banned. I

want told about any of these things.

They knew I wanted to try for more

children and it is shocking that

they allowed me to do that knowing

that they have taken mesh out of

other people in the same month it

was put inside of me and not given

me any of these things so I could

make an informed decision. It has

ruined my life.

Is that how you

feel?

It has ruined my life. Don't

feel like me anymore.

I'm so sorry.

Do you mind me asking how old are

you?

41.

Right, OK. How does this

impact on the way you are with your

six-year-old?

It's very difficult

because I have to use a mobility

scooter to take her to the park, and

I have still got the motherly

instincts and she is climbing

apparatus and she falls, my

instincts want to go to her, but I

can't, I have to talk her down and

tell her to come to me, I can't

physically run over and pick her up

anymore. It has impacted in a big

way.

Kate, as you're listening to

Margie, you are relating to a lot of

this, the excruciating level of pain

which some people don't understand

because mesh is tiny and how can it

cause this much pain? But in your

case it has, you have been admitted

to hospital over 50 times. You were

given a mesh for incontinence. The

guidelines are going to suggest that

mesh is banned for prolapse, but not

for hernias yet, not for intent nans

yet. What would you say about that?

I would say there is so many people

like me, that are suffering every

day, we don't know when there is

going to be an end to it. Our lives

have been destroyed by mesh. There

is so many women out there that get

a leaky bladder after they have had

a baby and so many women are going

to go, unknowingly and be given this

operation and they could well end up

in the same position as myself and

there is nearly 4500 other women in

our campaign that's growing every

day from your coverage, are going to

be affected. The stories are

heartbreaking.

You have had, some of

the mesh removed, but not a final

bit, why?

Basically because of the

positioning of it. They don't know

how it travelled and got to that

position, but it's very close to

like my main artery. So my

consultant, even though she is an

expert in mesh removal, she is not

sure or confident she could remove

it herself so she will need, I'm

going after this to see a vascular

surgeon to see if his input could

possibly help and possibly a trauma

surgeon, but leaving it, there is

the concern that because my mesh was

found to be the reason I kept

collapsing and like Margie on the

floor and needing morphine was

because it was slicing through my

organings, through my vagina. The

thought is it could do that to that

particular artery so leaving it

there, it could kill me or I have

the operation and it is really risky

too. Now I am left in a situation,

it is like my consultant said I'm

damned if I do and I'm damned if I

don't. I'm not the only person out

there, there is so many other women

out there in this situation, but we

feel like we are ticking time bombs

with this thing inside of us that's

doing horrendous things to our

inside.

One viewer says, "I was one of the

mesh injured women on your programme

in April with my daughter. I had my

mesh removed seven weeks ago. I have

got my life back. I can work. I can

drive. I can be a mum again. I'm

over the moon at the news this

morning."

Tina says, "Oh my god I this this

operation in 2007. I have only had

sex once since and I'm now

wheelchair dependant. I'm shocked

and horrified that the mesh could be

the cause." Tina on Facebook, "I had

a vaginal mesh implant in 2012.

Plaouf has changed from constant

pain if the top of my head to the

tips of my toes. Constant bowel and

bladder incouldn't continence." Hi

Sarah. She has had a p good

experience with mesh. Thank you for

talking to us. I really appreciate

it. Tell us about your own implant.

Yes, I had the implant for

incontinence last December.

Literally the incontinence was

ruining my life. I couldn't go on

trampolines, I couldn't cough

without urinating myself. I had the

mesh in December and immediately

changed my life for the better.

Yes.

I have no issues whatsoever now. I

jog. I run. I can go on a

trampoline. I can laugh and cough

without having any leakage

whatsoever. And it's horrendous the

experience some people have had, but

mine is the complete opposite.

And you are like the vast majority

of people, including to the NRA Che.

They have consistently told us

hundreds of thousands of women have

mesh implants and the vast majority

are very happy with the outcome. The

figures suggesting only one in ten

people experience problems. I wonder

if you think, and I will ask John

Osborne this as well, even if you

think it is a small minority that

have problems, it is still worth

having mesh implants, procedures

available?

I think so. I had a liver

resection in 2008 and I had to have

a hernia repair about four years

later and they put mesh when they

did the hernia repair. So I have had

a hernia repair with mesh and

incontinence. I think it has changed

my life so positively... They did

trial a different type of mesh for

my incontinence because they have

run out of the mesh of the supply,

they changed the supplier, I don't

know if it had anything to do with

the positivity I experienced.

It

might be. John Osborne, you know the

majority of patients have a good

outcome.

Yes indeed.

I wonder if

it's disproportionate that mesh

implants will be recommended to be

banned for treating prolapse.

I

think it would be right for prolapse

because that is a slightly

different... Larger pieces of mesh

are more vulnerable places. For

incontinence, the vast majority have

had good results but you have to be

very careful in choosing patients

the procedures. The incontinence

mesh have been put in younger women

with minimum symptoms. The person we

just heard from had serious problems

-- serious problems but they have

been using it for minor incontinence

and it might be there for 50 years

in young women.

And we don't know

what it will do in 50 years.

We need

to be careful about what we choose

to do and how we use it. I think a

total ban may be necessary whilst we

rethink and find out how many people

really have had this problem.

Thank

you very much to all of you for

coming on for programme. All the

best with the appointment with the

consultants afterwards.

Just to say we invited a minister

from the Department from health to

join us, they declined and referred

us to NICE. They said they cannot

put anyone up for discussion because

the guidelines won't be updated

until December the 20th and the

current guidelines are subject to

change. Thank you Sarah, appreciate

you coming on the programme. Send me

an e-mail or mesh sewage us on

Twitter, Whatsapp or Facebook. Still

to come...

Any moment now -

six British men jailed

in Southern India on weapons charges

waiting to hear whether they will be

freed, after spending

four years behind bars.

We will get reaction from their

families.

And we'll be talking

to Dame Jacqueline Wilson who last

night was awarded the Bafta

Children's Special Award

in recognition of her

contribution to childrens TV

with the Tracey Beaker series.

Time for the latest

news, here's Annita.

The BBC News headlines this morning:

Authorities in Bali have warned a

volcano on the island is in danger

of a full-scale eruption. Thick

clouds of smoke and ash have been

travelling thousands of metres into

the air since Saturday. The Apple

has been closed and locals have been

ordered to leave their homes. -- the

airport has been close.

The families of those killed

when a stolen car crashed in Leeds

at the weekend have paid tribute

to their loved ones.

Brothers Ellis and Elliott Thornton,

aged 12 and 15, died along

with 15-year-old Darnell Harte

and 24-year-old Robbie Meerun.

Father-of-two Anthoney Armour, 28,

whose partner is pregnant

with a third child, also died

when a Renault Clio hit a tree.

Two 15-year-old boys remain

in custody on suspicion of causing

death by dangerous driving.

This programme has learned

that the health watchdog -

the National Institute for Health

and Care Excellence -

is to recommend that vaginal mesh

operations should be banned

from treating organ

prolapse in England.

Draft guidelines from NICE say

the implants should only

be used for research,

and not routine operations.

A growing number of women have

reported complications

since having the procedure,

with many needing wheelchairs,

being unable to work or to have sex.

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

Thank you. A message from Debbie

said she had a mesh in 2007. For

years she had no problems but the

last couple of years she is in pain

every day with sciatica. She has

tried every possible treatment and

the hospital cannot get to the cause

and have discharged. She is left

with no treatment now and constant

pain and now wondering if this is

linked to the mesh.

Here's some sport now with Jess.

Good morning. As expected Australia

have taken a 1-0 lead in the Ashes

Series after wrapping up ten wicket

victory in the first Test match

against England. Opening batsmen

David Warner and Cameron Bancroft

got the winning runs at the Gabba.

Once again, England's field conduct

has come under scrutiny, after it

was alleged wicketkeeper Jonny

Bairstow head-butted Bancroft a

month ago in a nightclub. Both men

said there was no malice involved.

Manchester City remain unbeaten at

the top of the Premier League. They

beat Huddersfield 2-1 to move eight

points clear of Manchester United.

Celtic's dominance in Scotland

continues, they won their fourth

domestic trophy in a row, claiming

the Scottish League Cup after

beating Motherwell 2-0 at Hampden

Park. More sport just after 10am.

Thank you very much.

Next, Dame Jacqueline Wilson has

been writing children's books

for more than three decades.

Your kids will definitley

have read some of them -

The Story of Tracy Beaker,

Girls in Love, Hetty Feather

and The Illustrated Mum -

and last night she was awarded

the Bafta Children's Special Award

in recognition of her

contribution to children's TV,

with the Tracey Beaker series.

You're the most useless foster

mother in the world, I hate you!

This is mine, I love

this and you stole it.

I didn't steal it!

I can't take any more dishonesty.

You're the dishonest one,

you're the one that pretended

you are going to stick by me

and look after me,

and I stuck by you.

I didn't dump you when you were

being a terrible foster mum!

I'm not dumping you.

Then say, "Let's go home, Tracey,

we'll manage somehow".

Say it.

Tracey, let's go inside.

Don't worry, I'm coming, and I

didn't steal your precious teapot!

You're the worst foster mother,

I never want to see you again!

In case your half dozen brain

cells rubbing together

giving you a headache,

wondering why I came back...

Jacqueline Wilson's books aren't

about fantasy or wizards,

they're about real life

and regularly deal with issues

like adoption, mental health,

bullying and divorce.

She's written 107 books and I'm

delighted to say she joins us now.

Is that right, 107?

I think so, it

doesn't seem real but it is.

Congratulations on your award.

Thank

you, I was so surprised, a BAFTA,

you expect glamorous actors getting

one. It will be in pride of place.

Mind you, it is so heavy!

What does

winning something like that mean to

you?

It was so touching, in that

they had clips from many different

television adaptations and it sort

of brings it home to me, how lucky

I've been with all of them, they've

all been fantastic. And meeting up

with people from long ago. It was an

amazing night. It is not often you

get the chance to rewind through

your life and see what happened.

What do you think about the quality

of children's television in Britain?

These days?

I think probably

compared to other countries,

occasionally in the past when I have

been in America or Australia, I

think we are way up there and we

should be very proud.

Do you worry

about the fact that children... It

sounds bizarre asking this question,

the fact children are watching less

television because mostly they are

spending hours on YouTube?

Exactly.

I think it is always the case that

whatever children are doing, we

worry about it. I would imagine that

as long as things are carefully

monitored...

That's the point, they

are not at. There is some amazing

stuff on YouTube but awful stuff as

well.

It is this access that so many

people, and also, I think what

really is a worrying thing about

children's television or whatever it

is there watching, it is often done

in the privacy of their own bedrooms

rather than in the kind of family

viewing area. Not only because of

the worry about what they might

secretly be watching, but it takes

away family time and sort of

gathering around the television and

laughing at something, or discussing

some particular issue. I know

parents can't be there all the time,

but it would be nice if they had

slightly more access, to see what

their children were watching. Not

necessarily made teenagers, because

they are not going to want to sit

down.

Primary aged school

television, you would say don't have

a television in your children's

bedroom?

While I wouldn't say don't!

Of course you wouldn't advise mums

and dads what you would do but if

you had a preference.

Certainly I

wouldn't have liked it, I don't

think, if my daughter when she was

ten was off in another room, just

doing her own thing there.

What

about the time children spend

reading? Is it enough? Do you

understand why it's not more?

I try

very, very hard. I feel like some

evangelical person trying to spread

the joys of reading. I think if

small children are read to and

associate it with snuggling up with

someone and having fun together and

if the family breeds themselves, I

think children catch the habit quite

easily. I think it's sad that

children and reading perhaps as much

as they were in my generation all

yours, but certainly there are so

many other alternatives. It's a

weird thing, because you have a

huge, huge phenomenon of the really,

really successful books and it

becomes like the Harry Potter books

are a global thing, and yet on an

everyday basis am fully aware

children aren't reading as much as

they used to.

Because they are on

their phones and an apps.

They are

indeed.

Let me ask you about the

real-life element of the stories you

write. I don't know if you like the

word critique, but that's a word

that comes to mind.

I think they are

gritty.

Yes, I think that's a good

thing. Some people say you shouldn't

necessarily expose children to

divorce, bullying, death, because it

takes away their childhood. What do

you say to that?

I absolutely

understand this but I think adults

are kidding themselves if they don't

realise that children are wearable

these things, if not through their

peers in the playground, or the

other things they do watch on

television, on YouTube. I think if

you deal with these things as

responsibly as you can, not putting

in a horrible gratuitous details,

trying to do it from a child's point

of view and trying to be reassuring,

I think it does help. But also, and

I don't want to have this depressing

sort of little self-help books for

children, I want them to be

entertaining, I want them to be fun

as well, but to show that nowadays

children do half to cope with quite

a lot of things, but it isn't

necessarily all gloom and despair,

you can get through difficult

situations.

Luke says how did you

come up with the idea for Tracey

Beaker?

That was because I think the

rules have changed and suddenly in

local newspapers use of photographs

of real children in care homes, who

they were looking for foster parents

for. I saw these photos of these

endearing kids, some of them smiling

so hopefully, some sticking their

tongues out and mucking around and I

thought, what must it be like to be

a child in this circumstance? And

being a writer I thought

immediately, a good subject for a

book! I reset and luckily enough I

have a dear friend who works for the

fostering network, so I could make

sure my facts were right. I found

writing about Tracey Beaker a lot of

fun.

What do you think about, in

terms of primary school in

particular, the literacy element of

the curriculum?

I think it's a

shame, in that there was a

particularly wonderful traditional

children's festival I used to take

part in every year, and then

suddenly hardly any schools were

coming and missing out the chance of

meeting about 20 different authors,

seeing plays and doing all sorts of

book quizzes. The organiser phoned

up the school is and why, why don't

you want any more? They said, we

have to do our literacy lesson. It

just seemed ironic that we can't

just... We are so prescriptive now,

we have to do things in a certain

way. I feel sorry for teachers,

because they can't necessarily... If

some particular topic happens, they

content, whole we could read about

this or write a poem about it or

whatever they have more or less to

stick to the curriculum. Obviously

we want all our children to be

literate, but we also, I would think

I want them to enjoy reading and

writing.

Can you not do both?

Beaker

Certainly children are told

to write in a particular way and

remember how many paragraphs to put

and to put in different clauses.

Do

you think they don't need to know

what a subordinate clause is?

I

don't think they do, as long as it

is reasonably clearly expressed.

Unless you are going to grow up and

write government papers, who needs

this sort of thing?

Natalie says, "I

want to say thank you to Jacqueline

Wilson, I was taken into foster care

as a child. I went through a period

of not wanting to talk to anyone. I

read the Bed And Breakfast Star. I

was able to get a passion for

English from this and I tried

harder. I was able to make it

through a teaching degree at

university in the end."

I have got

prickles up and down my arm. Oh,

Natalie, you're wonderful and I'm

glad that reading has actually

helped you become such a high

achieving person.

Brendan says,

"Congratulations to Ms Wilson, well

deserved award. BBC children's is

the best in the world and it is

appreciated by adults." Are there

some areas, subject areas that you

wouldn't tackle, sexual abuse for

example?

I think you have to be

extremely careful. I certainly would

shy away from such complex and

difficult subject and you have to

remember that although perhaps 95%

of children would be upset by

something, but then move on. I

wouldn't like to seriously disturb

any child. I think if you feel there

is a burning need to write about

something then do it as appropriate

way as you can because we've all got

to be responsible and my goodness

me, I remember as a little girl

watching things and it doesn't do to

have a vivid imagination when you go

to bed and have nightmares, I

wouldn't want any television

adaptations of my books to have that

effect on children.

Thank you very

much for talking to us and

congratulations again.

Thank you,

Victoria.

Coming up:

We'll have the latest from Leeds,

as the five victims of a crash that

saw a stolen car smash into a tree

in a city suburb are named.

The British ex-wife of a man in

Islamic State describes her journey

out of extremism. She met her

husband John online and they

connected over their Islamist views.

They moved to Syria with their

children to join IS. But Tanya

decided she wanted out. She has been

speaking to a BBC Asian Network

correspondent.

My name is Tanya. For

a decade I was an Islamic extremist.

I'm hoping to counter his ideology.

In the late 1990s, Tanya went to

harrow. I grew up here myself and

went to school three miles down the

road. I didn't know her at the time,

but know many people who did, they

described her as a normal teenager.

They say she sometimes had

boyfriends and played truant from

school. She wasn't known to be

especially religious. So when did it

change?

I turned to religion when I

was 17. I wanted to change my

identity. I didn't want to be Tanya

from harrow anymore. I wanted to be

someone that people didn't call a

tart. So it gave me a structure in

my life that I needed and it helped

me feel like I belonged somewhere

like a family or community.

Like a family or a community

that embraced me.

As long as I complied to what they

were comfortable with Islamically.

In her late teens and early twenties

Tania mixed with various

radical groups in London.

radical groups in London.

It changed the way she

looked at the world.

Our minds were being

filled with these images,

terrible disturbing images.

They would give examples of what

happened in Srebrenica and Bosnia.

We were made to view this

shared sense of guilt

because we were community

and it was our duty to do something.

And that something was jihad.

I looked up to Al-Qaeda,

the Taliban, anyone that was trying

to protect Muslims, protect

the honour of Muslims.

What made me particularly

depressed about 7/7 was that

Shahara Islam was on the bus.

And she had been a classmate

of mine in my lower class.

I just thought it was very unfair

that somebody should

lose their life that young.

An innocent Muslim dies

and an innocent non-Muslim dies.

That was how we justified it.

It's wrong but that was the way

of thinking back then.

By the time of 7/7 she was

married to John Georgelas,

he was an American convert

she had met online.

He was clearly intelligent,

he was charming, he was my first

love, and we were best friends.

My way of contributing was raising

sons that would grow up to be

in the Mujahideen army or scholars

and academics, I wanted them

to contribute to the cause.

They moved to the United States

and had children.

After the Arab uprisings in 2011,

the family moved to Egypt.

John thought it was an ideal place

to raise their sons as jihadists

but Tania was starting

to have doubts.

One day for some reason

one of my sons came

in with a grenade to show me.

I don't think it was a working

grenade, but I lost my temper

and pulled out my kitchen knife

at John, I was like,

"Don't you ever do this again.

I don't want my sons

near these things.

I don't want them near the guns".

The buildings I stayed in,

they were abandoned

homes by ex-military.

The windows had been blown out

and every single night,

I had become accustomed

to hearing gunfire.

It was hard.

I mean, my marriage was breaking

down, which was like my life

at the time, and I didn't know

what to do.

There were bullets,

like snipers in these towers,

shooting, and we could see

the bullets flying everywhere.

I remember putting my kids

through the barbed wire

and seeing refugees,

they were just guys,

they were helping us

as much as we could,

I put the stroller in and then John

passed me another baby.

It was so scary.

GUNFIRE.

The last thing he told me,

the last message, was,

that he apologises for the wrong

that he's done to me

and the children, he prays

that we will be Muslims,

and that if I don't hear

from him in six months,

it's most likely because he's dead

because he has to fight

because the fight is drawing

closer to where he lives.

It was a relief to come back and not

have to practise Islam.

It was a nice break and it

gave me the opportunity

to just read other things,

like other than just

focusing on one subject,

one area, just Islam,

I got to focus on now

all different religions.

I had the freedom to think, that's

what America gave me, without fear.

Hi!

How does it make you feel to look

back at these photos

and see your son and his father,

who have been separated

for four years?

It makes me feel really sad.

I feel worse for the children

than I do for John,

because he made his own decision

and he got what he wanted

at the end of the day.

I wish I could turn everything

around and go back but I have

learned a lot from my mistakes.

That's all you can do, isn't it?

I regret the choices

that I have made.

Especially when it

comes to my children.

I just really wish I had had better

intentions for them.

I wish I had given them

a stable lifestyle.

Why should America give

you a second chance,

given all that you did to propagate

extremism against this country?

I didn't contribute to any violence

but my ex-husband only

did after I left him.

I think they should give me a second

chance because I realised

I was wrong and I'd made a mistake,

and I really want to make

up for my mistakes.

I would like to pursue

a career where I can help

rehabilitate extremist radicals,

give them that sense of community

and provide them with skills

and education so that they can

reintegrate into society

and be good citizens.

Jihadists need to be

heard because if we don't

know their arguments and how

poor their arguments are,

we're not going to be able

to discuss and refute them.

I think knowledge will free

people from this idea

of thinking that war and jihad

and violence causes progression.

It doesn't.

It doesn't achieve anything.

If you were to meet a woman

who was thinking of going down

the same path that you once took,

what would you say to her?

I'd say, I lost my family,

I lost my home, I lost ten years

of my life that I should have been

working at towards my

education and a career.

I have four children

who don't have a dad now.

Is this the situation

you want to be in?

More on that on the Asian Network

throughout the day.

Let's get the latest weather

update with Matt Taylor.

December, of course, on Friday. The

start of the winter as well. Nature

has taken its lead early. Rather

cold conditions to come for most of

you this week. Temperatures below

where they should be for the time of

year and to go with that a mixture

of sunshine and wintry showers

possible just about anywhere by the

time we get to Thursday, but there

will be a lot of dry weather too.

Out there, the mildest conditions of

the week. Particularly in southern

areas. Colder air is pushing down

behind this cold front which brought

a wet start today across southern

counties. Notice this area of low

pressure towards the east of

Scotland. That's bringing strong

winds. That will make it feel raw

and the showers, a mixture of rain,

hail, sleet and snow. Sleet and snow

mixed in with the showers and hills

of Northern Ireland and northern

England, elsewhere, good breaks

between the showers. A fair amount

of sunshine.

But into the afternoon, we've got

the cold front still lingering

across the Channel Islands. Blustery

winds here. 11 Celsius in St Helier.

Temperatures will drop through the

afternoon and the start of the

evening. Further showers continue

across Wales and sleet and snow over

the hills. The same too in Northern

Ireland and to western and northern

parts of Scotland. North-east

Scotland, where you have got gales

or severe gales continuing

throughout. It will feel raw here.

The winds remain blustery for all

overnight. Temperatures holding

around two Celsius in some of the

towns and cities. Dropping below

that in the countryside. It will be

a chilly start to tomorrow morning.

UK-wide. Showers across Northern

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales

and sWention. Tomorrow morning

starts off with sunshine. A lovely,

crisp start, but it will feel

chilly. Colder than this morning.

Tomorrow, fewer showers in the west.

There will be some in Northern

Ireland and south-west England in

particular. More showers across

eastern counties of England and

Eastern Scotland. These will turn

wintry and with the strongest of the

winds in eastern areas temperatures

more like close to freezing. Some of

the best of the weather tomorrow.

That will be the same again on

Wednesday. High pressure to the west

of us, low pressure to the east. The

door is open to the north winds

which mean temperatures will

continue to drop on Wednesday.

Showers across the western fringes

of Wales, and into Cornwall and

further showers down eastern

counties of England in particular.

Again, they will turn wintry. A very

raw feel. It will feel like

temperatures around freezing for

much of the country. Colder still on

Thursday.

Hello it's Monday, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story today:

Eight months after we

first revealed that

hundreds of women were suing

manufacturers and the NHS over mesh

implants they'd had -

this programme has learned

that the health watchdog is advising

the NHS to ban the procedure

for treating prolapse in England.

On the basis of five out of ten,

six out of ten pain,

and then I have these pain attacks

where nothing can touch it,

even when I've been in an ambulance

and had 20 mg of morphine

it hasn't touched the pain.

I literally have to sit on the floor

and breathe through it,

there is nothing I can do about it,

I just have to wait for it to pass.

A few are seeing -- a viewer

e-mailed to say they had one and

found a piece of it floating on the

Bath. This stuff is Lee and

shouldn't be put in the body.

Also this morning:

Thousands of people are being taken

to court and threatened with prison

over council tax arrears every year

- we've an exclusive repor.

I just didn't know what to

expect, where I was.

It was absolutely horrific.

I was worrying about the kids.

Nobody can prepare you for it.

We'll hear from one council leader

whose own authority started court

proceedings threatening prison

against 19 people over

council tax debt.

Six men have been in prison in

southern India for four years over

weapons charges. We find out shortly

if they are to be released. I think

we can talk to them straightaway,

actually. Good morning Yvonne, the

fiancee of Billy Irving and Joanne

Tomlinson, sister of John. Have you

heard?

Yes, we've just had a text.

We don't know, it's not confirmed,

not come from the lawyer but from

one of our friend who is at the

court and said that all of them have

been released!

I'm still slightly

apprehensive, until we hear from the

lawyer for definite, but that's the

news that we've just got. I'm just

struggling to believe it until we

get an official update.

Text saying

good news, all six have been

released, our present worked. We

have to wait for the lawyer to speak

to us.

And get the detail.

You need

official confirmation but a text

from your friend in the court is

telling you that all the men have

been released?

Yes, yes.

Wow.

I

think until we hear officially from

the lawyer, I wouldn't expect that

to be incorrect information, but I

think because it is such an

important verdict, we do want

confirmation from the legal team.

Which is activity fair enough. Thank

you Yvonne and Joanne for the

moment. We will wait for that

official confirmation. Fingers

crossed. We will be back with you

shortly. I can also bring you this

news as well. Clarence House have

just announced in the last few

seconds that Prince Harry is to

marry his American girlfriend Meghan

Markle. Congratulations to them.

Prince Harry is going to marry his

American actress girlfriend, Meghan

Markle. There has been speculation

for months, particularly when it was

reported she was moving her dogs

from Canada to Britain, which some

people took as absolute confirmation

that of course they were going to

get engaged to be married, because

otherwise why would you be moving

your dogs to far from home? Those

kind of engagement rumours have been

at fever pitch, depending on which

website newspaper you read. But it

has been confirmed in the last few

moments from Clarence House that

Prince Harry is going to get married

and is marrying his American actress

girlfriend, Meghan Markle. Wasn't

long ago he warned the media off

reporting on her every move, it

seemed. He sent as very strongly

worded statement saying they should

effectively leave her alone, clearly

with the experience of what happened

to his own mother he stepped in very

early on to effectively urge for her

privacy. I suspect that websites,

broadcasters, radio stations,

newspapers will be full of this

news, despite that plea from six

months or so ago, because Prince

Harry is going to marry his American

girlfriend Meghan Markle. We will

bring you reaction to that news.

Some websites and newspapers were on

stand-by for this, because quite a

lot of people like a royal wedding.

It doesn't say when in the

statement. A very short statement

from Clarence House. Just that they

are to get married a potentially

next year, you'd have thought,

wouldn't you?

next year, you'd have

thought, wouldn't you?

-- Prince Harry getting engaged. No

details as to when or where. They

have been going out for over a year

or so, if my memory serves me

correctly. The rumours around

whether they were going to get

engaged at fever pitch. I'm just

going to bring you a few more

details about the both of them, if

you will bear with me on second. You

may have read in one of the Sunday

papers that it was supposed to be

announced last Thursday, because

apparently the Prime Minister

Theresa May had cleared her schedule

for a possible engagement

announcement. That obviously didn't

happen. And they have just announced

it in the last few minutes. Prince

Harry is to marry Meghan Markle.

Parboil editor Nicholas Witchel is

here on his phone. Hello.

Hello.

Prince Harry is getting married.

Yes, finally announced, the wedding

in spring of next year. Further

details about the wedding will be

announced in due course. They became

engaged apparently earlier this

month, in London. We don't know much

more about that. Prince Harry has

informed the Queen and other close

members of his family. Prince Harry

has also sought and received the

blessing of Meghan Markle's parents,

who are in the United States. They

will live at the cottage in

Kensington Palace. The wedding in

the spring, presumably after the

arrival of his brother's new baby.

Spring.

So it will be Westminster

Abbey or St Paul's?

We don't know.

That raises the interesting question

as to whether it can be a church

wedding, because she is a divorcee.

It becomes a matter for the

Archbishop of Canterbury. Archbishop

Justin Welby has indicated he is not

adverse to the idea of a church

wedding. I think it is possible for

the charge, given Harry was not

involved in the break-up of her

marriage, they didn't even know each

other at the time. So it is another

indication of how far the British

establishment has moved, that the

Church of England quite possibly

will sanction and perform a church

wedding. The other really striking

thing is a significant member of the

Royal family marrying an American

divorcee, who is, as she says,

proudly, a strong, confident mixed

race woman. That is the other

extraordinary thing. That all the

confrontations and resonance of an

American divorcee caused on King to

give up his throne. A long time

ago... 80 years ago. Within the

royal family there be just that...

Oooh... But it is sending a strong

signal of how far society, the Royal

family, all of us have moved.

Bill

Royle family specifically how far

they have moved, perhaps less so for

society. -- the Royal family. The

question of whether they will be

married in a church because she is a

divorcee, my understanding is it is

down to the parish vicar.

Yes.

An

individual decision because each

individual parish has its own rules

depending on how liberal or

otherwise the vicar is.

Westminster

Abbey is a royal peculiar so the

Dean of Westminster can essentially

do what he likes. But I think in

this instance it will be a matter

for the Archbishop to decide. It

would be very curious for them to go

off to some small parish somewhere.

There are all sorts of candidates

for a church wedding if it is to be

a church wedding. St Paul's, as you

say... The guards Chapel, which is

much smaller, where Harry made a

memorable speech on the tenth

anniversary of his mother's death.

Also St George 's Chapel at Windsor,

a rather more intimate setting, a

rather smaller and more family

orientated environment. The further

details about the wedding day will

be announced in due course. I'm

quite sure they will have given

close consideration to that. I have

no doubt Archbishop Justin Welby has

been consulted, because I think we

were certainly hearing rumours he

had been sounded out as to the

possibility of there being a church

wedding and weather in view of the

fact she is a divorcee, whether the

Church of England would feel able to

perform a church wedding. I think,

as I said, he has indicated it is

not a problem.

How old is Prince

Harry, early 30s?

33. She is 36.

They met in June of last year. Her

father over to her -- a retired

cameraman from Hollywood and she and

actress somewhat of a retired

actress now.

Her life is going to

change dramatically.

It is. One

might suppose that her acting career

puts her in a better position to

cope with the public facing nature

of the role she will take on. She

clearly is motivated about having a

public career. A charitable career.

She is already quite noted for her

contributions as the UN woman of the

year, or in that sort of forum. So

she is confident about putting