25/01/2018 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello.

It's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

The Education Minister Nadhim Zahawi

is reprimanded by Downing Street

for going to the scandal hit

presidents club charity dinner

as questions continue to be

raised about the event.

There's a much bigger thing here,

which is that we should get away

from the sorts of events where men

and women are treated very

differently.

That is the Culture

Secretary, who is in Theresa

Switzerland along with Theresa May.

She will meet Donald Trump after a

bumpy few months for the special

relationship. We will be live in

Davos as President Trump arrives.

And it's an exciting

day for British tennis.

Kyle Edmund is on court right now

playing in the men's semi-finals

at the Australian Open.

We'll be hearing from

those who know him best.

He has improved certain elements of

his game, made some small technical

changes, but mostly about his

decision-making. He has some huge

weapons in his game.

Hello...

Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11 this morning.

We'll get figures after half 9

which will give us an idea

of the number of rough

sleepers across England.

If you've been homeless at some

point in your life -

do let me know about your own

experience, how it happened,

what effect it had on you?

And how you got back

on your feet...and I'll

share your insight with the nation.

You can email, message me on FB,

use the hashtag Victoria

LIVE and if you text,

you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Our top story today.

The Education Minister Nadhim Zahawi

has been reprimanded

by number 10 for attending

the men-only charity dinner.

Is

Mr Zahawi attended

The Presidents Club's function

at the Dorchester Hotel,

where women employed as hostesses

say they were groped.

The minister said

he felt uncomfortable

and left the event early.

Alexandra Mackenzie reports.

The annual Presidents Club dinner

for men-only at the

Dorchester Hotel.

Women were hired as table hostesses.

There are claims they were groped,

they were made to wear

revealing outfits and specific

underwear and their phones

were confiscated.

Maddison Marriage is

the Financial Times journalist

who went undercover

to expose the dinner.

Multiple women told me

that they had been touched

inappropriately and that

ranged from you know

holding their hands,

to

touching their stomachs, to hands

near their bottom of their back.

Things that maybe you might not find

too offensive, but then touching

their bums, touching...

Kind of grabbing them,

pulling them into

their laps.

One of the event organisers,

David Mellor, resigned

his position as a member

of the Department for Education's

board and summoned to explain his

attendance

was Education Minister, Nadhim

Zahawi.

He was called in to

see the Chief Whip.

On social media, Mr Zahawi said:

I do unequivocally condemn

this behaviour.

The report is truly shocking.

I will never attend

a men-only function ever.

He didn't stay long.

He went home very shortly

after the hostesses were announced

by the presented and paraded around

the room.

I think that that indicates

to me that he was shocked

by the event, didn't

like the culture,

the atmosphere and left.

The Presidents Club, which said

it was appalled by the allegations

surrounding the event last week,

said it will distribute remaining

funds to children's charities

before shutting down

in the wake of the scandal.

more on that later in the programme.

Marin Cilic has the first break,

leading Kyle Edmund in the first

set. More in sport, coming up.

First, here is Carol with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

Theresa May will use a speech

at the World Economic Forum

in Switzerland to put more pressure

on technology companies

like Facebook and Twitter to tackle

extremist material online.

She'll be speaking in Davos just

hours before she meets US

President Donald Trump,

their first meeting since

she criticised him for sharing

racist videos tweeted

by the far-right

group, Britain First.

The US President, Donald Trump,

says he's 'looking forward'

to being interviewed

by Robert Mueller -

the FBI's special counsel

investigating allegations of Russian

interference in the US elections.

In a heated exchange,

the president told reporters

he would give testimony under oath,

and said he expected to be

questioned by Mr Mueller

within two to three weeks.

REPORTER: Would you do it

under oath, Mr President.

You mean like Hillary did?

Who said that?

I said that, would

you do it under oath?

You said it.

Did Hillary do it under oath?

I think you have an idea.

Wait, you don't have an idea?

You really don't have an idea?

I really don't remember.

I'll give you an idea -

she didn't do it under oath.

You won't?

I would do it and you know

she didn't do it under oath.

At least two people have died

and several others injured

after a train derailed

near the city of Milan.

The regional train was travelling

towards Milan's Porta Garibaldi

station and derailed around

the town of Segrate.

There are reports that emergency

services are still trying to rescue

people trapped inside.

A judge in California has barred

a mother and father,

accused of the imprisonment

and torture of their 13 children,

from having any contact with them.

David and Louise Turpin appeared

in court to deny the charges.

The siblings will now be separated,

with the adult children living

in one location and the six

youngsters divided

between two foster homes.

Plans to set up tens of thousands

of free water refill

points across England

are being announced today.

Water UK, which represents water

companies and suppliers,

says it wants to expand a refill

scheme first launched in 2015.

It hopes this will help reduce

pollution caused by plastic

bottles being thrown away.

Scientists say smoking just one

cigarette a day is much more

dangerous than previously thought.

The team at University College

London said people should give up

rather than cut down

because of the risk

of heart attack and stroke.

Our health and science correspondent

James Gallagher reports.

Smoking is awful for health,

as it greatly increases the risk

of cancer, heart attack and stroke.

You may expect cutting down from 20

to one a day would lead to a similar

reduction in health problems.

It does for lung cancer, but a study

in the British Medical Journal says

some risks remain high.

For every 100 middle-aged people

who had never smoked,

five have a heart attack

or a stroke each decade.

A 20 a day habit increases that risk

to a higher 12 heart

attacks or strokes.

When people cut down drastically

and smoke just once a day,

they would still have eight heart

attacks from strokes.

--heart attacks or strokes.

The team from University College say

the solution is to stop completely.

Even smoking the odd cigarette

here and there or one or two a day

still has a major risk of two common

and serious disorders.

The implication for GPs is that

when they deliver smoking cessation

services to their patients they can

raise this information to try

and encourage smokers in a positive

way to completely stop rather

than merely cut down.

Researchers think even low levels

of tobacco smoke may be altering

the way the heart, lungs

and blood vessels function,

leading to the increase in risk.

Cutting back is still

better than doing nothing

but Public Health England say

the safest thing to do

is to quit for good.

The singer for Manchester

post-punk band The Fall,

Mark E Smith, has died aged 60.

His partner Pam Vander,

who is also the band's manager,

said Mark died at home on Wednesday

morning and added that a more

detailed statement would follow

'in the next few days'.

The band released more than 30

albums with the frontman,

who was known for his

distinctive style of singing.

US YouTube star Logan Paul

has published a video

about suicide awareness,

after he was widely criticised

online for a previous video post

showing the body of an apparent

suicide victim in Japan.

In the seven-minute video,

Paul meets activists

and a suicide survivor,

while pledging to donate $1 million

to prevention groups.

It has received a largely positive

response from his young fans online,

and Paul said he hopes it will "make

a difference in the world".

Cheetahs are known for being

the fastest land mammal but now

new research suggests when it comes

to catching prey -

speed doesn't always equal success.

Scientists have discovered a kind

of arms race between big cats

and the animals they hunt -

as one gets faster the other

becomes more agile.

Our science correspondent

Victoria Gill explains.

The fastest land animal on earth.

Cheetahs are built for

speed and acceleration.

But with a sprint they can sustain

for less than a minute,

every twist and turn of the hunt

is critical in a high-speed battle.

These veterinary scientists have now

studied at the finer scale.

We see

the spectacle of hunting on wildlife

documentaries, but here we are

capturing thousands of runs and

seeing all the things that we

haven't seen before, building up a

full story which means you can build

of a computer model that tells you

what the effect is.

They are

recording the animals' position more

than 200 times a second. That

captured every moment of the chase,

revealing just how closely predator

and prey match in their athleticism.

But it also demonstrated that the

hunt is about much more than speed.

By outmanoeuvring a predator,

turning at the very last minute, and

antelope can control the chase and

evade capture. Only about 50% of

cheater hunts resulting Akhil --

cheetah.

cheetah. -- result in a kilt. The

cats are close to extinction, many

of them, and this study reveals how

close the line is between life and

death in the wild.

If we're going to

protect them, having an in-depth

understanding of the requirements in

their natural habitat is important,

and research into the kind of prey

they eat, how much home range they

need, it all links into their

conservation.

These are the extreme

athletes of the animal kingdom, and

it has meant tracking their every

step to really unravel the drama of

each chase.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9:30am.

Some comments from you about the

families Minister, who has been

reprimanded for going to that

dinnerware hostesses were groped.

One viewer says: Yet another

politician keeping their jobs after

doing things that others will be

sacked for. Another says: The gala

hostesses speak after several years

of fundraising? Scott says: The

hostesses knew what to expect and

what happens there. There are the

hundreds of complaints from them?

Paul says: Other than the

journalists who went undercover, can

we hear from other hostesses about

their experiences? That is what we

are hoping to bring you today, Paul,

so do stay tuned. Catherine is here

with the sport. The biggest match of

Kyle Edmund's career, how was he

doing?

He is up against it, facing

set point against Marin Cilic. He

has just clinched that first set

against Kyle Edmund in the

semifinals of the Australian open

down in Melbourne. The biggest

challenge of Kyle Edmund's career.

Marin Cilic won the 2014 US open. He

is the world number four and this is

an enormous occasion. Kyle Edmund

dropped a set during his match with

Grigor Dimitrov, so don't count him

out yet. Win or lose, we cannot

overstate Kyle Edmund's achievement

here. If is his first grand slam

semifinal and he is only the sixth

British man to reach the semifinal

of a major. Absolutely fantastic

achievement from him, but he is one

set down to Marin Cilic in that

semifinal. We will keep you updated

on that throughout the morning. He

has to come back now, Victoria.

If

you want to listen to the match,

it's on five live right now. And we

know who is in the women's final?

We

do, we had a cracking semifinal

between world number one Simona

Halep and the former world number

one, Angelique Kerber of Germany.

Some absolutely extraordinary tennis

from both women. You can see from

the score graphic that the final set

went in 9-7 in games, and it was

Simona Halep, the current number

one, who goes through to the final

in Australia for the first time, and

she will face Caroline Wozniacki,

who herself was world number one a

few years ago. She did not win a

grand slam when she was on top of

the rankings. Simona Halep has not

yet won one, so they will go

head-to-head for their first grand

slam title. And adding to the mix, a

bit spicy, the world number one

ranking will also be at stake in

that final this weekend.

And Phil

Neville isn't going to face

punishment for those offensive

tweets?

No, I think it's fair to say

that his appointment as the England

women's head coach has not been

universally popular. He came in from

lots -- for lots of criticism from

lots of people, people saying that

he has only got the job because of

who he is, his name, not necessarily

because of his experience at any

high level in coaching, or because

he has any particular interest in

the women's game. And that has not

been helped by tweets he sent in

2011-12 which were disparaging

towards women. The FA chief

executive has said that background

checks were carried out but they did

not reveal the comment in question.

He said those comments would not

meet the threshold for issuing a

charge. Nevertheless, he says

Neville will be educated on his

responsibilities and will be warned

about his conduct in future. I

imagine Phil Neville hopes his job

as England head coach will become

gradually easier than the first 24

hours in the role.

Not necessarily

expect you never know.

Let's talk more about Kyle Edmund.

Here's one of his coaches,

Mark Hilton, on what's helped

with this breakthrough

at the Australian Open.

Well, it's come about in a few ways.

There have been some

obvious improvements

to his game but also

he

has had a lot of changes

in the sense of a new coaching team,

myself and Fredrik Rosengren along

with Ian

Prangley, his physical

trainer, have come together

and obviously made

a

plan on what needs to improve,

what he's doing great,

and fortunately over pre-season

we had a great time

together and it's showing now

at the start of the year.

But what is different?

Is it that he is physically

stronger, mentally

stronger, because he has,

perhaps cruelly, been called

a choker in the past?

Yeah, so, I wouldn't

have labelled him

that, but what he has done is he has

improved certain elements of his

game, his serve in particular has

come on, we made some small

technical changes there.

But mostly about his decision

when he's on the court.

He has some huge weapons in his game

and it often comes down to

those small decisions in big moments

and he's been able to execute them

on the biggest stage and it

gives him a lot of belief so that

when he goes out on the court

against these

best players he is able

to execute his best tennis.

Does he feel the pressure,

will he have felt the

pressure going into today?

I'm sure he has his

own expectations.

He's always been

aware that his tennis

has been very good.

It's being able to repeat

that on a daily basis,

and over the course

of the last ten days

he has been exceptional

at

doing that over the course of five

sets, in very tough conditions.

And what it does is

it really solidifies

the work that has been done

and gives him a lot of confidence

moving into the rest of the year.

Can he reach the final?

Why not?

When it gets to this

stage in the tournament

with only four players

there he has a great chance.

He's going to need to play

well and Cilic is an

exceptional player who has won grand

slams, been in a final, he beat

Kyle in the autumn last

year and it's going

to be a tough match

but

there is no reason why Kyle

can't out there and win.

It's really going to come

down to some very small

margins today.

Thank you, Mark,

thanks for your time.

No problem.

Let's Speaker Amanda Owens, world

ranked tennis player and leading

sports psychologist who currently

works with players on the world

tour. Also Chris Jones, a tennis

writer and Trevor Loten, a tennis

coach at Kyle Edmund's old big smile

from Trevor despite Kyle being one

set down already. How do you think

he's doing, Trevor?

He's taking a

bit of time to get going and there

is a medical time-out, not sure what

the problem is. His comeback from

behind in several matches so far so

I'm not unduly worried at this

point.

Are you, Chris?

I'm worried

because if you go for a medical

time-out and go into the locker room

it usually means it's somewhere you

don't want the rest of the public to

see where you are hurting which

means around the groin, top of the

lake. He's played tennis in tough

conditions in Australia. I just hope

Isiekwe he will last, his body has

been through an awful lot. He's done

brilliantly to get this far but it's

not been the best 35 minutes of this

tournament, lost the first set 6-2

and now injured.

We will update our

audience to see what happens. You

expect him to come out, Chris?

Yeah,

he will continue, the medical guys

around the ATP are fantastic and it

would take something big for Kyle

not continue. He will give

everything. If the injury allows him

to keep playing it would be very

unusual for him to drop out of a

semifinal. He will give absolutely

everything.

Let me bring in Amanda.

I mentioned to Mark Hilton that Kyle

Edmund had been described as a

choker in the past and he didn't

like that label, absolutely fair

enough. Some people have said

mentally he hasn't been that

resilient but that's changed. What

work will the have done for him for

that to change?

Absolutely. The

change has been remarkable. I think

choker is a bit tough. He wasn't so

good under pressure and he crumbled.

There is a clear change. I think

they've been doing pressure training

with him, increased the intensity of

training.

What is pressure training?

Simulating matches. He has his base

in The Bahamas and they will have

been doing heat training. There is

clearly a difference, working on all

areas of his game, but mainly the

mental side has improved

dramatically. There are different

ways that the coaches and sports

psychologists can work with him to

improve how he deals with pressure

situations. In tennis there are

critical points and key moments and

clearly he's improved on that. This

week has been incredible, he has

taken out some top seeds and it's

just how he's dealing with the big

points, and indeed the fact that he

has come back from behind and is

showing real resilience.

How worried

are you about this time-out for

injury?

He has had a time-out before

with his shoulder, so I'm not unduly

worried. His body has been battered

but I think he is showing a very

high level of fitness at the moment,

and mentally he is incredibly tough.

I'm not unduly worried but I think

he will come back out. He has shown

he can win the tough five set

matches.

Trevor, does he look almost

like a different player to you?

He

has gained a massive amount of

confidence over the course of these

two weeks, and I think having the

new coaching team on board really

has done wonders for that. He also

looks in the best physical shape he

has ever been and hopefully the only

way is up.

What was he like when he

was ten?

He was talented at a lot of

sports, football and cricket, and he

holds some records at the prep

school for athletics. So, a very

talented all-round sportsman. He

first came to my attention when he

was about ten years old and I got

him into the under 12 North and

schools tournament with his partner,

and they won that and he was a year

below the rest of the field so that

was a tremendous achievement. It was

clear even at that point that if he

wanted to take tennis seriously than

he could be a very good player.

Why

did he choose tennis if he was good

at that and football and cricket and

athletics? Did you hear me, Trevor?

Can you hear me, Trevor?

Technical

hitch, it has come back on.

It

wasn't an amazing question but why

did he choose tennis over other

sports he was clearly good at?

I'm

not sure, to be honest. He obviously

got the bug, he started coaching at

David Lloyd in Hull and I think that

was the decision he made and I'm so

pleased he did.

Chris, how good is

he?

Well, he is our hope. I know we

usually just have one hope and we

have been very lucky with Andy

Murray but Andy has taken a long

time to look at Kyle and help him

both mentally and physically and

helped him at his Florida camps.

That's been important because he has

spotted in Kyle visibility, because

he has a weapon to be a world-class

player and that forehand is a

weapon, you can't get into the top

players if you don't have something

like that and he has shown in this

tournament what that forehand can

do. Now it is about getting the

experience. If it doesn't go great

today it doesn't matter because he

has made it to a semifinal and you

can't buy that sort of experience

and mentally he will be some

stronger because of this experience.

Last year he was 5-1 up in the final

set against Jack Sock in Paris and

crumbled. It is only a few months

away. The new coaching team has made

a great difference to him and I

believe he will step into the shoes,

not exactly the same as Andy because

he's been brilliant for British

tennis, but he's going to be there

for us with this young group of

players on the world stage.

Thank

you very much, Chris and Trevor, and

Amanda. Cilic has taken the first

set and is one game up in the second

set. There is a lot of work for Kyle

Edmund to do. You can listen to the

hard work he's put a on the court

right now on 5 live, and there will

be highlights at 4:45pm on BBC Two

this afternoon. This is interesting.

Shops, cafes and businesses will

offer free water refill points in

every major city and town in England

by 2021. Water UK says its scheme

could cut disposable plastic bottle

used by tens of millions a year,

which is good because we all seem to

be growing increasingly worried

about the effect of plastic waste on

the environment.

With me now is Water UK's chief

executive, Michael Roberts.

How will this work?

Companies,

shops, businesses, cafes sign up to

offer free tap water for people to

fill up the bottles, they put a

sticker on the window, we provide a

national app so on the move you can

find out where a free refill point

is and top up.

There are 30 cities

across England doing this already,

how is it going?

It is going well

but it is early days. We were

inspired by the grass roots campaign

that started in places like Bristol.

Tell our audience about that. What

was going on in Bristol?

Local

campaigners who are passionate about

removing plastics from our

environment in Bristol, which is a

city which has great historical

reference to the sea, so it is about

the city almost repaying the sea for

the wealth that was generated for

the city in the past, by trying to

remove the scourge of plastic waste

in all of our waterways, not just

the sea. In Bristol there are 2000

regular users of the app and many

more who use the scheme on a kind of

ad hoc basis, passing by shops, they

see the stick and go in and refill

for free, and in that way hopefully

we are cutting the use of single use

plastic bottles in the environment.

This estimate of cutting use by tens

of millions of pounds sorry, tens of

millions of bottles per year, how

many? How do you estimate that?

So,

every day in this country about 16

million plastic bottles end up

either going to landfill, or

clogging up our rivers, or polluting

the environment locally or globally.

By getting people, not every time

necessarily, but as regularly as

they can, to choose to refill their

reusable bottle rather than buying a

bottle in the supermarket we can

make a real difference.

Are there

any concerns about hygiene or not?

We do need to be careful about that.

What is the concern?

Inevitably

when, for example, if we start to

see more public water fountains we

need to make sure they are properly

maintained and properly designed,

rather than just being a simple

reincarnation of Victorian water

fountains. But this isn't just about

water fountains, as I said, this is

about shops and cafes which have

dispensing points anyway to make it

easy for people to get access to

what is actually in this country

some of the best drinking water in

the world. People can forget that.

But we have some of the greatest tap

water in the world.

Things I didn't

know, we have some of the greatest

tap water in the world. I suppose it

is quite obvious but I have never

thought of it like that. We take it

for granted. I know we pay for it

but we take it for granted.

We do

take it for granted, it doesn't come

about easily, the water has to be

collected, treated, stored and

dispensed through a network of of

pipes. The amazing thing is that

through huge investment over the

last 30 years we have moved from

being the dirty man of Europe to

providing world-class quality tap

water and it's great value. If you

refill a bottle in one of these

refill points it costs a fraction of

a penny. If you buy it in the

supermarket it costs more than 300

times that. Phenomenal value.

Enough

said. Thank you, Michael.

Still to come.

The law of joint enterprise:

where someone can be convicted

of murder even if they did not

inflict the fatal blow.

Two years ago the Supreme

Court ruled it had been

wrongly interpreted.

What's changed?

And more on the fall out

of the men-only charity gala

where hostesses were harassed

and groped by attendees.

Brian has e-mailed on this: Well

done, media. Well done.

done, media. Well done. You deprive

much-needed money for Great Ormond

Street Hospital, over 500,000 pounds

lost and staying in people's pocket.

The result event is always as -- the

event is always a success and these

women are not making official

complaint. They also do not complain

when the attend women only night

which are also a great way to

support charities. We will talk to

Norman Smith at Westminster about

the reprimand that the families

Minister has had for to that event.

Time for the latest

news - here's Carol.

The Education Minister Nadhim Zahawi

has been reprimanded by No 10

for attending a men-only charity

dinner.

Mr Zahawi attended

The Presidents Club's function

at the Dorchester Hotel,

where women employed as hostesses

say they were groped.

The minister said

he felt uncomfortable

and left the event early.

The Charity Commission says it's

investigating the allegations

"as a matter of urgency".

Theresa May will use a speech

at the World Economic Forum

in Switzerland to put more pressure

on technology companies

like Facebook and Twitter to tackle

extremist material online.

She'll be speaking in Davos just

hours before she meets US

President Donald Trump -

their first meeting since

she criticised him for sharing

racist videos tweeted

by the far-right

group, Britain First.

The US President, Donald Trump,

says he's 'looking forward'

to being interviewed

by Robert Mueller -

the FBI's special counsel

investigating allegations of Russian

interference in the US elections.

In a heated exchange,

the president told reporters

he would give testimony under oath,

and said he expected to be

questioned by Mr Mueller within two

to three weeks.

REPORTER: Would you do it

under oath, Mr President.

You mean like Hillary did?

Who said that?

I said that, would

you do it under oath?

You said it.

Oh, you said it.

You say a lot.

Did Hillary do it under oath?

I think you have an idea.

Wait, you don't have an idea?

You really don't have an idea?

I really don't remember.

I'll give you an idea -

she didn't do it under oath.

You won't?

I would do it and you know

she didn't do it under oath.

At least two people have died

and several others injured

after a train derailed

near the city of Milan.

The regional train was travelling

towards Milan's Porta Garibaldi

station and derailed around

the town of Segrate.

There are reports that emergency

services are still trying to rescue

people trapped inside.

The port of Calais has been

closed after a blockade

by French fisherman.

P&O Ferries has called on French

authorities to clear

the demonstrators 'without delay.'

It's thought the protest

is about losses French fisherman say

are inflicted by some countries' use

of electrified fishing nets.

Plans to set up tens of thousands

of free water refill

points across England

are being announced today.

Water UK, which represents water

companies and suppliers,

says it wants to expand a refill

scheme first launched in 2015.

It hopes this will help reduce

pollution caused by plastic

bottles being thrown away.

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

Here's some sport

now with Kat Downes.

Kyle Edmund is a set down

in his Australian Open semi final

against against Marin Cilic.

Playing in his first

Grand Slam semi final -

he lost the first set 6-2

against the world number four.

champion Angelique Kerber -

but the world number one came

through and will face

Caroline Wozniaki in the final.

New England women's boss

Phil Neville won't face FA charges -

despite tweets in 2011 and 2012 that

were disparaging to women.

Back to you.

Just in, the latest crime figures

for England and Wales for the 12

months to the end of September 20

17th. Compared to the previous year,

crimes recorded by the police,

violent crime is up 20%, knife crime

up 21%, robberies up 29%, sexual

offences up 23%. There is a separate

crime survey which is based on

interviews with 35,000 households.

That suggests that crime continues

to fall. Two lots of figures, one is

the crime survey, interviews with

people about their experience of

crime, and the other is police

recorded crime, with the figures I

just mentioned.

just mentioned. Violent crime, knife

crime, robbery and sexual offences

are up in each case. By 20% or more.

We will be talking to our home

affairs correspondent in a few

minutes. He will give us the context

around as figures.

The law of "joint enterprise" -

where someone can be convicted

of murder even if they did not

inflict the fatal blow -

is being debated by MPs

in parliament this morning.

Two years ago the Supreme Court

ruled that this law had been wrongly

interpreted for more than 30 years,

and campaigners thought that this

would see fewer cases being brought

to trial using the law,

and gave hope to those who believe

they and their family members had

been wrongly imprisoned -

but this hasn't happened.

Here to tell us why -

and what MPs can do about it -

is our legal eagle Clive Coleman.

So, fill us in on what is the MPs

have debated.

Let me explain about

joint enterprise. It is a

fascinating and troubling aspect of

our criminal law. It is an old

common law doctrine that allows

prosecutors to throw the net over a

group of people and prosecute them

all. In murder, if there is a group

involved and they don't know who

inflicted a fatal blow. All of the

people involved can be charged and

convicted of murder. Until 2016, the

Supreme Court case that you referred

to, the test was seen by many as

being very low. It was this: All you

had to prove was that someone within

that group has a knife and kills,

but to prosecute us for murder, all

the prosecution have to do is that

we could have foreseen that that

person might kill, or at its lowest

level, inflict grievous bodily harm.

It was a test of foresight, not

intention. That led to a lot of

people who were too morally removed

from the crime, bit part players or

people who weren't playing a part at

all, being scooped up in the net and

being convicted of murder. Many of

them are serving life sentences.

That was the concern. In 2016, the

Supreme Court had a look at this,

and extraordinarily, an incredible

moment, the president of the Supreme

Court said the law had taken a wrong

turn in applying that foresight test

in 1984, that the law had been wrong

since then. That appeared to open a

door for those people who had been

convicted, they felt, on this

low-level foresight test. Since that

time, the door that has been opened

has then been firmly shut by the

Court of Appeal. A raft of cases

have gone to the Court of Appeal,

and it has rejected every single one

of them. One of the key issues at

the heart of this debate today is

that the Supreme Court said that if

an appeal was being brought out of

time, in other words late, and you

normally have 28 days to bring an

appeal, you have to show that there

was a substantial injustice. That is

the controversial issue at the heart

of all of this. It is for that

reason that campaigners believe the

door that was opened by the Supreme

Court has been firmly shut, and that

leads to this debate today.

What

might be the outcome of the debate,

if anything?

Campaigners would like

a the law now. The fact that this

has gone to the highest court in the

land, gone back to the Court of

Appeal, this would now need some

change in the law, with parliament

intervening to change the law. We

have a big issue with the law of

murder. We don't have degrees of

murder, as they have in the United

States. We simply have murder, and

if you are convicted, you get a life

sentence. The Law commission looked

at this years ago, and they called

our law of homicide a rickety

structure. One way around this in

the long term would be for us to

have degrees of murder.

Thank you,

Clive.

Now let's talk to Sally Halsall -

Mum of Alex Henry who was convicted

in 2014 for the joint enterprise

murder of Taqui Khezihi.

She has been campaigning for law

change since he was convicted -

and Charlotte Henry -

Alex's sister.

Thank you, both, very much for

coming onto the programme. I want to

take you back, first of all, to what

Clive was telling us about. When the

Supreme Court, the highest in the

land, ruled that this law had been

wrongly interpreted for more than 30

years, what did you think would

happen with your son's case,

convicted of murder on joint

enterprise and serving a very long

prison sentence?

I thought he would

come home.

That it would be as

simple as that?

I thought, they will

get it through the appeal court

quickly, he will come home. And so

will all the other prisoners, all

750 of them that we support in our

campaign group.

And that hasn't

happened, Charlotte, because you

have had to prove that there was a

substantial injustice. How difficult

is that to prove?

It is an

incredibly high legal burden,

impossibly high, usually when there

has been an error at trial, and the

Court of Appeal will look to see the

conviction is unsafe, which means

looking at the error and

understanding whether it might

reasonably have made a difference to

the jury's verdict. The court will

look to see whether the defendant

has proved that the change in the

law 100% would have made a

difference. Bearing in mind, even

under the current law, you can be

convicted for your presence at the

scene. If presence continues to be

enough, how can we prove that the

change in the law would have made a

difference?

Why is it required for

an appeal to prove substantial

injustice for the joint enterprise

law as opposed to any other offence?

It is called the principle of

certainty that they look at. The

idea is that there is a final point

where the law is the law and no one

can appeal past that point. That is

why we have a 28 day time frame in

which someone can appeal, based on

an error of law. Anyone passed the

28 days, to uphold the principle of

uncertain -- of certainty,...

Does

it seem unfair, unequal, compared to

other attempts to appeal a crime?

It

seems unjust. The court are saying

that anything short of substantial

injustice, regardless of it being

still in injustice, is OK, which is

ludicrous, considering it is called

the justice system.

In terms of the

day's debate in the Commons, what

are you hoping for?

We are hoping

for a change in the law. Obviously,

I'm hoping my son will come home.

But there are so many families that

have joined the growing army of our

campaign group, because they haven't

stopped convicting people under the

net of joint enterprise. Young

people, most recently, we have had a

flurry of 13 and 14-year-olds

getting life. In most of the cases,

they are minimum mandatory

sentences, so my son got 19 years

and he has to serve every single one

of those before he can even consider

getting parole.

And you say he was a

bystander, effectively? The

individual who committed the fatal

blow pleaded guilty. Your son, you

say, was simply a bystander.

Literally, you know, in other cases,

he would have been a witness. He

didn't do anything to hurt anybody

on that day. We have fought so hard

with the group to get them all out,

but particularly, we are fighting

for Alex because he's my son,

obviously, but he also has autism

and is a vulnerable adult. This is

what the net of joint enterprise

does, it captures the vulnerable,

and it is... It destroys families,

and there is a great ripple effect

of the damage it causes. We have

had, you know, a prisoner, you know,

tidying, we have had one of the

mothers committing suicide. It is

absolutely devastating, and this is

our justice system. They are doing

this knowingly, knowingly, and they

should be convicted under joint

enterprise. It is a dreadful,

dreadful thing that they are doing

to so many families, and it has to

stop. And our group are making a

noise. Yes, we are a bunch of noisy

women, and we're not going away.

A man lost his life, your brother

was there, and the jury decided that

he was guilty of joint enterprise

murder. We have to remember the

victim's family here, don't we?

Of

course, our loss does not compare to

their loss, not at all. I can visit

my brother, I can speak to him on

the phone, they have to visit a

graveside and also the brother of

the victim was there and saw that

happen and we never forget that but

I can't lose my brother too for 19

years, can't wait until he's 40 to

get him home, it's not fair.

Charlotte, you are motivated to go

into more because of what's happened

to your brother and you are a

trainee lawyer now, is that correct?

Yes, I think it's important to know

your enemy and the law is my enemy.

So I will try and be as good as I

can add it.

Thank you both for

talking to us today and we

talking to us today and we will see

what comes out and emerges from this

debate in the Commons, the first

time they have talked about it. We

will see what happens. Thank you for

coming onto the programme.

Some breaking news Justin Forsyth

the number of people sleeping rough

on the streets of England has

reached the highest level since

current records began. New figures

for the Department for housing,

Communities and Local Government

showed an estimated 4751 people were

sleeping rough last autumn. It's

measured on one might across

England. This e-mail from David:

I've been asking you if you have

slept rough, what were the

circumstances and what happened,

what effect it had on you and how

did you get yourself out of it?

David says I've experienced being

homeless for a while, dramatic time

in my life, I was depressed,

addicted to alcohol and drugs. To me

it was an ever increasing vicious

circle which ended only when I was

sent to prison due to my anti-social

behaviour. I sought help and thanks

to the aid by self-help groups I

found the motivation and belief to

rebuild my life. Today I am happy

and content with life and often see

homeless people on the streets and

remember having a broken spirit and

seeing life as a massive struggle. I

hope they too break the cycle. We

are going to talk or about who have

slept rough after 10:30am. If it has

happened to you please send me an

e-mail or a message on Facebook, you

don't have to leave your name, just

so I can feed your experiences in to

the debate.

The Culture Secretary Matt Hancock

is welcoming the closure

of the Presidents Club organisation,

after hostesses at its men-only

charity gala in London said

they were harassed and groped.

The event was attended by senior

figures from business,

finance and politics.

Downing Street says Theresa May has

been appalled by the reports.

Our political guru,

Norman Smith, is at Westminster.

She must have raised her eyebrows in

particular at the fact that one of

her ministers recently promoted to

ministerial level was there.

This

was Nadhim Zahawi, who is the

children's minister, who went to

this event and as a result of that

he was hauled in yesterday by the

Chief Whip and reminded of his

responsibilities. I imagine he is a

thoroughly chastened man by now. He

says he went there and was

uncomfortable with what was going on

and left early at about 9:30pm, so

perhaps before things got even more

out of hand. I don't think there is

any question of him being sacked or

removed from his post. There does

not seem to be any suggestion that

might happen. But I imagine for many

MPs and many ministers it has been a

sort of wake-up call to think about

the sort of events they accept

invitations to, and Nadhim Zahawi,

when he emerged from his house this

morning, he was keeping his counsel.

Just have a look.

Why did you attend

a male only dinner?

So, no words from Mr

-- Nadhim Zahawi this morning. One

of the things being looked at is

whether anything can be done to try

and ensure such events can happen

again. There have been all sorts of

demands, for example, the equalities

act to be toughened up, to be given

real teeth. There have been

suggestions the Charities Commission

should be more focused rather than

just seeing what different

fundraising events are like and

whether they should be able to claim

they are charities. The difficulty

is there are laws already in place.

I was having a look at the

equalities act and that already says

it is an offence to engage in

degrading or humiliating behaviour,

to violate someone's dignity, sexual

harassment. Those are already

offences. Barroso criminal offences

of indecent assault and sexual

assault so be offences are already

there. -- there are also criminal

offences. It's more about trying to

change the culture, all the more so

because of the recent scandals we

have had at Westminster. That, I

think, was what the minister this

morning when he was talking about

it, Matthew Hancock, was driving at.

That has to be the real consequence

of the publicity surrounding the

Presidents Club.

I understand that Mr Zahawi

was invited because it was a charity

event, and left early because he was

uncomfortable with it.

That's what I understand.

I understand he's spoken to

the Chief Whip, but there's a much

bigger thing here,

which is that we should

get away from the sorts

of

events where men and women are

treated very differently and that

there are reports of some

pretty terrible behaviour.

Interesting too I thought how Mrs

May's language during the day

yesterday toughened up as the sort

of scale and outrage built.

Initially No 10 said she was

uncomfortable by what she had read

in the paper. By the end of the day

she said she was appalled, and of

course called for Nadhim Zahawi to

be called in. I think she gradually

realised just the nature of outrage,

not just at Westminster but more

broadly about what had gone on at

the Presidents Club.

Matt Hancock

talking in Davos where Theresa May

is on her way, she is going to give

a speech and also meet Donald Trump.

It will be interesting if we could

be there to see how they get on.

They have had that sort of Twitter

spat and he has cancelled his trip

here.

All the indications are that

Mrs May and the UK are not flavour

of the month. In part because of

that Twitter spat. You may remember

when Donald Trump tweeted Theresa

May directly saying they need to be

focused on radical Islam and Mrs May

criticising Donald Trump for his

support of far right groups. But it

is more than that, you sense we have

been jumped in the queue by the

likes of President Macron and others

and Mrs May has quite a lot of

catching up to do today to try and

heal the apparent rift with Donald

Trump, made all the more important

quite obviously because of Brexit

and the fact we really, really do

need those new trade deals with

countries outside the EU command

front of the list of course has to

be the United States.

Thank you very

much.

Coming up.

Britain's Kyle Edmund is on court,

as he attempts to reach his first

Grand Slam final against Marin Cilic

at the Australian Open.

He is currently one set down and

it's going to serve in the second

set, currently 4-4. Those are

pictures from a previous match

obviously, that's not happening

right now. We will ask what is

behind the success of British

tennis, although that question might

be a bit premature.

New crime figures have been released

this morning. Danny Shaw is outside

the Office For National Statistics

in central London. There are two

sets of figures, talk our audience

through them.

As always there are

two sets of crime figures, there are

offences reported to and recorded by

police in England and Wales by 44

forces including British Transport

Police, then a separate set of data,

which is the crime survey of England

and Wales, based on interviews with

35,000 households, and includes

offences that are not reported to

police. Crime survey is good at

predicting and showing and

estimating longer term levels of

crime. It is not so good at certain

smaller categories of crime,

particularly certain categories of

violent crime. So, the picture is

this. In terms of the crime survey,

crimes are still on a downward

trend, that's what the survey is

saying. Down by 10% overall, and

that is largely driven by an

unexpected drop in fraud and

Computer Misuse Act fences, down 15%

year-on-year, according to the crime

survey. This is the first time we

have been able to get an accurate

comparison of fraud and Computer

Misuse Act fences according to the

survey data. Those are the long-term

trends. When we come to the police

recorded figures, crimes police have

to deal with, what we are seeing is

an upward trend, 14% year-on-year,

14% rise in police recorded crimes

and there are some sharp increases

in certain areas, violent crime up

20%, sexual offences up 23%,

robberies up 29%, car crime up 18%

and thefts up 12%, and when you look

in the categories of violent they

are particularly concerning with

increases of knife crime up 21% with

knife possession offences up 35%,

the highest it has been since around

2009. Look at the homicide figures.

I always like to look at the

homicide figures because these are

not prone to any changes in

recording practices. What they show

when you take out the terror related

deaths from the attacks this year

and Hillsborough deaths counted in

last year's figures, if you take

those away you see 650 homicides, a

rise of 57 killings year-on-year.

That is showing that at the top bend

the most serious levels of violence

are definitely going up.

From your

long experience of covering this

area, what might be your views on

why violent crime is up, knife crime

is up, robbery is up, and homicide

is up?

It is difficult to say. Is it

to do with the fact there are fewer

police officers on the streets and

there are fewer police officers

perhaps able to attend events which

might lead to a murder later on, for

example domestic violence? Is it

because there are fewer stops and

searches being conducted? Those are

questions that are being asked and

that is certainly what the police

would say is contributing to it.

Could it be something to do with the

fact that there are more people in

work, people have more disposable

income, they spend more on drink,

they get involved in fights and that

contributes to violence? Could it be

to do with other factors we are not

aware of? It is a difficult one and

there are no simple answers.

Danny

Shaw, our home affairs

correspondent, reporting from the

National office for statistics. We

are going to talk to four people who

have experience of crime, some are

victims, some work with

ex-offenders, and we are going to

talk about that in the next half an

hour. The latest news and sport on

the way at 10am but before that the

weather.

the way at 10am but before that the

weather. Good morning, different

sort of day on the weight today

compared to yesterday. Yesterday we

saw wet and windy and mild weather,

which had a consequence on the

rivers in parts of Scotland and

northern England -- on the way. This

was Dumfries yesterday, this behind

me is a river whose, snowmelt and

mild weather and rain sending river

levels rising and they could rise

again this weekend. That will push

in on Saturday bringing heavy rain,

Storm Georgina is off out of the way

but we are into cooler air at the

moment and these clusters of cloud

pushing across the western half of

the UK at the moment meaning many

eastern areas get a lunchtime

staying largely dry but the showers

will work their way further eased

into the afternoon. Some longer

spells of heavy and Bunbury rain

across parts of northern and western

England and Wales and southern

Scotland -- thundery. Are still a

few showers in northern Scotland but

throughout the central belt of

Scotland it could stay dry but

temperatures dropping rapidly.

Northern Ireland will see showers

come and go in the afternoon and

into the evening but by the time we

hit the evening rush hour it is

northern England, the south-west

continuing to seek every showers,

the odd dry spell in between but

some of the driest weather along

with Central Scotland could be

across East Anglia and part of the

south-east where there will be few

showers in the forecast. There is a

breeze blowing today, it will slow

down tonight, a few showers across

England and Wales tonight, one to

continue into the morning for

Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire

and into Cornwall, but more likely

to see showers in the north-east of

Scotland, central and eastern

England, so in the west clearer

skies, colder than last night,

widespread frost across western

areas, maybe a bit I see in a few

areas, the morning rush-hour

Saint-Cloud, a few showers in

north-east England fading away into

the afternoon, leaving most of you

with the week -- some bad. Lighter

winds and not feeling too bad at

all. This is a developing weather

system, some stormy weather between

us and Iceland, wet and windy for us

in the UK. That wet weather

spreading across quickly from west

to east thanks to the strength of

the wind, severe gale force in the

north of Scotland and showers in its

wake. Temperatures in double figures

continuing with the mild air into

Sunday, even mild as south-westerly

winds take hold for just about all.

There will be some rain across

Scotland, heavy at times, that and

further snowmelt means river levels

could rise, further flooding not out

of the question. For many on Sunday

the dry of the two days on Sunday,

brighter spells in Central and

eastern areas and one or two spots

could hit 15 degrees. That's how it

is looking.

could hit 15 degrees. That's how it

is looking. Thank you very much.

Good morning, hello, it's 10am,

Thursday, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Crime figures just released show

a rise in the number of violent

offences recorded by police.

But a separate survey

of households suggests overall,

crime has continued to fall.

In the category of violent crime,

there are concerning increases in

knife crime, up 21%, with knife

possession and possession --

offences at the highest it has been

since 2009.

We will talk to people

have been the victims of crime and

those who are trying to stop

offensive taking place.

Theresa May is at Davos to give a

speech at the world economic Forum.

Donald Trump has just arrived in

Zurich aboard air force one, en

route to Davos. We will be live in

Davos later this hour. And Kyle

Edmund is on court in the semifinal

of the Australian open, where he is

one set down to Marin Cilic, and it

is 5-5 in the second set.

He has

come back in matches so far, so I am

not unduly worried at this point.

His matches live on five live at the

moment.

The Education Minister Nadhim Zahawi

has been reprimanded

by number 10 for attending

the men-only charity dinner.

Is

Mr Zahawi attended

The Presidents Club's function

at the Dorchester Hotel,

where women employed as hostesses

say they were groped.

The minister said

he felt uncomfortable

and left the event early.

The Charity commission says it is

investigating the allegations as a

matter of urgency.

The latest crime figures for England

and Wales shows crimes recorded

by police increased by 14%

in the year to September 2017.

Violent crime was up 20%

and there were also increases

in robbery and sexual offences.

The separate Crime Survey -

based on interviews

with 35,000 households -

suggests that crime is not a common

experience for most people.

Theresa May will use a speech

at the World Economic Forum

in Switzerland to put more pressure

on technology companies

like Facebook and Twitter to tackle

extremist material online.

She'll be speaking in Davos just

hours before she meets US

President Donald Trump,

their first meeting since

she criticised him for sharing

racist videos tweeted

by the far-right

group, Britain First.

The US President, Donald Trump,

says he's 'looking forward'

to being interviewed

by Robert Mueller -

the FBI's special counsel

investigating allegations of Russian

interference in the US elections.

In a heated exchange,

the president told reporters

he would give testimony under oath,

and said he expected to be

questioned by Mr Mueller

within two to three weeks.

REPORTER: Would you do it

under oath, Mr President.

You mean like Hillary did?

Who said that?

I said that, would

you do it under oath?

Oh, you said it.

You say a lot.

Did Hillary do it under oath?

I think you have an idea.

Wait, you don't have an idea?

You really don't have an idea?

I really don't remember.

I'll give you an idea -

she didn't do it under oath.

You won't?

I would do it and you know

she didn't do it under oath.

At least two people have died

and several others injured

after a train derailed

near the city of Milan.

The regional train was travelling

towards Milan's Porta Garibaldi

station and derailed around

the town of Segrate.

There are reports that emergency

services are still trying to rescue

people trapped inside.

The number of rough sleepers has

reached the highest level since

records began. There were 4751

people sleeping rough in 2017. Data

suggests that the number has risen

by 128% since 2010.

The port of Calais has been

closed after a blockade

by French fishermen.

P&O Ferries has called on French

authorities to clear

the demonstrators 'without delay.'

It's thought the protest

is about losses French fisherman say

are inflicted by some countries' use

of electrified fishing nets.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

news - more at 10:30am.

We will talk about rough sleeping in

the last half-hour of the programme.

Richard says this: I am a counsellor

now, but I slept rough at Paddington

station for two nights some years

ago. I bought the wrong rail ticket

and I couldn't get back to Stoke. It

was freezing cold and I had to curl

up around a light in the floor to

keep warm. I was totally ignored by

commuters and staff. It only lasted

two days, but I will never forget

it. Barbara says: We were homeless

for a year. The local council

wouldn't have my family, some in the

end, we stayed down by the river in

a tent. The only way we got help was

going to our local church. This

viewer says: I am nearly 30, but

between the ages of 14 and 21, I was

on and off homeless. If I wasn't

lucky enough to stop on someone's so

far, I would sleep in parks, usually

around the play equipment area, or

in 24-hour toilets. The main place

was a 24-hour women's toilet where I

would sleep on the counter. I was

15, 16 at the time, and I would use

the hand dryer for warmth in the

winter. Thank you for those, do keep

them coming in.

them coming in. Catherine is back

with the sport. How is our Kyle

doing?

He is battling to stay in it.

He is one set down in the

semifinals. Marin Cilic took that

first set. If Kyle Edmund can come

back and win this match, he will

overtake Andy Murray as British

number one. Never mind getting into

the final of the Australian open, of

course. The women's Trophy will have

a new champion because neither

Simona Halep. Caroline Wozniacki

have won a grand slam before. Simona

Halep beat Angelique Kerber, winning

the decider 9-7. Extraordinary

tennis from both women.

Arsenal beat Chelsea last night.

Chelsea already had a goal

disallowed by the time Eden Hazard

put them ahead. Arsenal were soon

back level, and doubled the

direction -- a double deflection...

Is they will face Manchester City in

next month's final.

In the end, I

would say, yes, it was a little bit

of a deflected goal on the first,

and the second as well was a bit

lucky. Overall, I felt we controlled

the game well in the second half.

Rangers jump above Aberdeen. John

McGinn's goal was enough to seal

victory for the burning. Ross County

lost the Motherwell. Celtic are

still 11 points clear at the top.

England women's new head coach Phil

Neville won't face any disciplinary

action from the FA over historic old

sexist tweets.

sexist tweets. He apparently assume

that women would be cooking

breakfast rather than reading his

tweets. The women in football groups

say more attention should be paid to

have the next women's coaches can be

brought through.

Engel's Moeen Ali has been talking

about the determination in the cab.

England are looking to avenge their

Ashes defeat with a series whitewash

in the one-day tournament.

This is

the one series you really want a

whitewash in. Especially in

Australia. I don't think we've ever

been 3-0 up here before. It is

something that all the guys, after

the Ashes, even the one-day players

are keen.

Kyle Edmund is into the

second set tie-break in the

Australian open semifinal. When this

one and he is very much in it. Lose

it and it is an awful long way back.

It is. Thank you. We will keep you

updated, of course.

New crime figures released this

morning for England and Wales reveal

that violent crime levels -

such as knife and gun crime -

have continued to increase.

The separate crime survey for

England and Wales shows that crime

is not a common experience for most

people, with eight in ten adults

surveyed saying they were not a

victim of crime. We are bringing

together for my people who've seen

the effects of crime close-up.

In the studio we have Sephton Henry,

a former gang member who now works

to prevent gang related crime,

Rishi Chodhury who was conned out

of several thousand pounds

when someone gained access

to his paypal account,

Rachel Thomas of SaferPlaces

who works to support victims

of domestic abuse,

and from Chelmsford we can speak

to Caroline Shearer whose son Jay

was killed in a knife

attack in 2012.

How do you react to the news that

one crime survey says that crime has

been falling, but the figures show

that crime has gone up a decent?

Surveys aren't worth the paper

they're written on, to be fair. You

could go out and it is potluck. We

all know that crime is going up. We

haven't got enough police on the

floor. They are running around like

headless chickens chasing their

tails. They are arresting people,

doing their job. The judicial system

is the people who are letting us

down. There are no deterrence, no

mandatory sentences. Gangs are

running riot. They are not actually

gangs, they are profitable

businesses. And unless we start

putting deterrence in place to prove

we're not playing about, we will be

overrun. The army may even be called

in, because it is getting to the

stage now, you saw yourself how many

people were killed on New Year's

Eve, and that was without stabbings

and shootings.

The way you describe

it, it sounds pretty apocalyptic. I

wonder if Rachel, Sefton and Ritchie

recognise the picture that Caroline

is painting?

Yes, I recognise it,

but as a former gang member myself,

no sentence or anything would change

me. I've been to prison seven times.

I've been shot at, stabbed, Ricked