10/02/2016 Wednesday in Parliament


10/02/2016

Highlights of Wednesday 10 February in Parliament, presented by Alicia McCarthy.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament.

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The main stories from Westmhnster: At Prime Minister's Questions,

:00:11.:00:12.

Labour demands more action on housing.

:00:13.:00:14.

Six out of ten renters have issues such as damp,

:00:15.:00:17.

You can only restore existing houses.

:00:18.:00:25.

You can only support people into those houses

:00:26.:00:36.

The opposition accuses the Government of a sleight of hand

:00:37.:00:39.

when it comes to police funding in England and Wales.

:00:40.:00:42.

And there's an outbreak of honesty from a Conservative MP.

:00:43.:00:44.

On a point of order, Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance

:00:45.:00:47.

on a matter which is at best of marginal interest

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Find out what that is all about a little later

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But first, to Prime Minister's Questions, where Jeremy Corbyn

:00:54.:00:56.

The Labour leader accused David Cameron of presiding over

:00:57.:01:00.

He began, as usual, by asking the Prime Minister a question

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MPs cheered and laughed because the Labour Chief Whhp,

:01:06.:01:19.

Rosie Winterton, was sitting on the front bench just a fdw places

:01:20.:01:21.

The Rosie who has written to me is in her 20s and she says...

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"I work incredibly hard at ly job, yet I'm still having to livd at home

:01:32.:01:35.

The lack of housing options, Mr Speaker, forcing her to consider

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She asks the Prime Minister what action he is going to take

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to help young people and falilies suffering from unrealistic house

:01:50.:01:52.

prices and uncapped rents to get somewhere safe and secure to live.

:01:53.:02:02.

Well, first of all, let me say to the right honourable gentleman

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when you get a letter from the Chief Whip,

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But what I would say to Roshe, the Rosie who wrote,

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is we want to do everything we can to help young people get

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That is why we have got these Help to Save ISAs and I hopd

:02:21.:02:26.

We are cutting Rosie's taxes so that this year,

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she will be able to earn ?10,00 before she starts paying anx taxes.

:02:30.:02:32.

If Rosie is a tenant in a Housing Association hole,

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she will be able to buy that home because we are introducing

:02:36.:02:38.

And, of course, with Help to Buy, she will have the opportunity

:02:39.:02:47.

to register for Help to Buy, which gives people the opportunity

:02:48.:02:52.

to have a smaller deposit on owning their own home.

:02:53.:02:55.

If Rosie is not earning that much money but wants to be a homd owner,

:02:56.:02:58.

shared ownership can make a real difference.

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In some parts of the countrx, you will only need a deposit

:03:01.:03:03.

of ?1000, ?2000 to begin thd process of becoming a homeowner.

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But I recognise in this Parliament, building more houses,

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following those schemes, we have got to deliver for Rosie.

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Mr Corbyn then turned to those renting a place to live.

:03:11.:03:16.

How many of the 11 million renters are living in homes that ard not,

:03:17.:03:20.

that do not meet the decent homes standard and therefore

:03:21.:03:22.

One third of those in the private rented sector do not meet

:03:23.:03:27.

Shelter found that six out of ten renters have issues such as damp,

:03:28.:03:31.

Millions are struggling to get the home they deserve.

:03:32.:03:43.

More families slipping into temporary accommodation.

:03:44.:03:45.

Families forced into low st`ndard, overpriced private rented sdctor.

:03:46.:03:55.

Young people unable to move out of the family home

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When is the Prime Minister going to realise there is a housing

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His government needs to address it now so that we do not continue

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with this dreadful situation in this country.

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Let me just take one of the figures that he mentions about homelessness.

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Homelessness is less than h`lf the peak today than it was tnder

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You can only restore existing houses, you can only build

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new houses, you can only support people into those houses if you have

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Now, we inherited mass unemployment, an economy that has completdly

:04:35.:04:40.

collapsed, a banking crisis, and now we have got zero inflation,

:04:41.:04:44.

which is growing, unemploymdnt at 5%, an economy growing and people

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able for the first time to look to their future and see thex can buy

:04:48.:04:51.

The SNP's Angus Robertson ttrned to the talks between Holyrood

:04:52.:04:59.

and Westminster over a financial deal to underpin new

:05:00.:05:01.

Talks over what's called "the fiscal framework" have been

:05:02.:05:08.

going on for several months, and are yet to be resolved.

:05:09.:05:11.

The Smith Commission on further powers for Scotland said anx deal

:05:12.:05:13.

should not impact adversely on Scotland or the rest of the UK.

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Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister made a vow and his party signed

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an agreement that there would be no detriment to Scotland

:05:23.:05:24.

Why is the UK Treasury proposing plans that may be detriment`l

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towards Scotland, to the tune of ?3 billion?

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First of all, we accept the Smith principles of no detriment

:05:38.:05:40.

First of all, no detriment to Scotland, quite rightly,

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at the time when this transfer is made.

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In terms of Scotland having these new tax-raising powers.

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And then no detriment to Scottish taxpayers,

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but also, to the rest of the United Kingdom taxpaxers

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who we have to bear in mind as we take into account

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this very important negotiation.

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I want the Scottish National Party here and in Holyrood to havd

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What are you going to do with benefits?

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I want to get rid of, frankly, this grievance agenda and ldt

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you get on with the governing agenda, and then we can see

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Meanwhile, a Conservative MP turned to comments apparently made

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by the Shadow Defence Secretary Emily Thornberry, during a lively

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meeting of the Parliamentarx Labour Party.

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Reporters outside the room were told she'd said the UK's nuclear weapons

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system, Trident, could soon be as obsolete as the Spitfire fighter

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The Spitfire was a crucial dlement in our winning the Battle

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And keeping our country free from tyranny.

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However, there are some, there are some who fear

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that our independent nuclear deterrent could be as obsoldte

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Now, could my right honourable friend the Prime Minister assure

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the House and the country that this is not the case?

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In reply, David Cameron quoted Labour MP for Bridgend,

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Another week, another completely ludicrous Labour

:07:10.:07:13.

I think the last word should go to the honourable member

:07:14.:07:20.

Who, as she came out of the meeting, tweeted this: Oh, dear.

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Need to go to rest in a darkened room.

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I expect she will find the rest of her party with her!

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Well, down the corridor in the Lords, Labour's Defence

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spokesman urged the Prime Mhnister to "pull his finger out" and get

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on with it when it came to renewing Trident.

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The last Government gave the go-ahead for initial work

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to start on replacing the UK's ageing Vanguard submarines,

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which are due to end their working lives in the late 2020s.

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But this parliament is due to vote on replacing the Trident

:07:58.:08:00.

A Labour peer and former First Sea Lord began the qudstioning

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by urging the Government not to exploit Labour's

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The noble minister, I know, understands how crucially ilportant

:08:06.:08:10.

the replacement of these submarines and the maintenance of the deterrent

:08:11.:08:18.

to the security of our nation are, and yet the decision,

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which has to be made in the other place, is being delayed and delayed.

:08:21.:08:24.

It could have been made at `ny time since last November.

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I know it's fun to watch Labour wriggling in anguish and having

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cartoons such as in The Timds, with pictures of Spitfires

:08:31.:08:35.

Actually, this is too important to score party political pohnts

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My Lords, I have no wish to score party political points on a matter

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The noble lord may remember that Parliament voted in 2007 to support

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the programme to replace the Vanguard class submarinds,

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that authorised the investmdnt in the programme, including

:08:59.:09:02.

the design work, and that is the stage we are at at the loment.

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If we had not commenced the work when we did, it would not h`ve been

:09:08.:09:15.

possible to design and construct the successor submarines before

:09:16.:09:21.

We are moving ahead with all speed on this.

:09:22.:09:24.

And I can say to him that the Parliamentary vote,

:09:25.:09:27.

which we are committed to, is only right and proper

:09:28.:09:29.

because it is right to give the democratically elected chamber

:09:30.:09:31.

of Parliament the opportunity to endorse the principle

:09:32.:09:33.

Under this government, we have seen a reduction in the size

:09:34.:09:40.

We have no aircraft carriers any longer.

:09:41.:09:44.

At a time when the Russians are increasing submarine patrols

:09:45.:09:46.

by 50%, we have no maritime control aircraft.

:09:47.:09:56.

On top of this, the governmdnt wants to extend the life

:09:57.:09:59.

I would be less than honest to stand here and say,

:10:00.:10:07.

if I did not admit that my party have some problems

:10:08.:10:10.

Noble Lords might have been reading about it in the newspapers.

:10:11.:10:15.

But there is one policy that does unite the two frontbenches `t least

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So can I ask the noble Earl the Minister if he will put a simple

:10:19.:10:24.

question to his friend the Prime Minister?

:10:25.:10:26.

Dave, pull your finger out, and damn well get on with committing

:10:27.:10:35.

ourselves to replacing the Trident programme.

:10:36.:10:37.

Because it is the first dutx of any government to protect our country.

:10:38.:10:40.

My Lords, I think the noble lord is being less than generous

:10:41.:10:43.

to the government which, for the first time in a long time,

:10:44.:10:46.

has increased the defence budget with an extensive

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And he added the message was well taken and the Government

:10:48.:10:56.

was proceeding apace with the successor programmd.

:10:57.:11:02.

You're watching Wednesday in Parliament, here on BBC

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Parliament, with me, Alicia McCarthy.

:11:04.:11:10.

Labour has accused the Government of a "sleight of hand"

:11:11.:11:13.

in its funding of the policd in England and Wales.

:11:14.:11:16.

The Chancellor, George Osborne, announced in November

:11:17.:11:17.

that there would be no cuts to police grants this year.

:11:18.:11:21.

Figures show the funds from central government will fall,

:11:22.:11:23.

but budgets will be maintained, with money raised through council

:11:24.:11:27.

The minister insisted policd forces would face no real-terms

:11:28.:11:33.

We need to make sure that our constituents are m`de aware

:11:34.:11:48.

of how generous the settlement is up to 2020.

:11:49.:11:55.

Still, at times, when we are continuing to pay

:11:56.:11:59.

for the maladministration of the finance of this country

:12:00.:12:01.

by the previous administrathon and by the previous ministers now

:12:02.:12:03.

Let's just get something straight here.

:12:04.:12:06.

When I came into the job as Shadow Home Secretary,

:12:07.:12:10.

he and his other colleagues in the government were proposing

:12:11.:12:13.

And it was pressure from thdse benches, led by my honourable

:12:14.:12:23.

friend, a full Opposition D`y Debate, that forced them

:12:24.:12:25.

So let's just get our facts straight here!

:12:26.:12:28.

He is standing there seeming to suggest there will be no cuts.

:12:29.:12:36.

Can he guarantee there will be no real-term cuts to any policd force

:12:37.:12:40.

There is, if they go to the precept limits they have

:12:41.:12:47.

As he knows, I have always opposed cuts to the police budget every

:12:48.:12:54.

single year and the Minister has always had a good argument by saying

:12:55.:12:57.

that crime is going down and so that justifies the government's position.

:12:58.:13:04.

In my local paper, the Bradford Telegraph and @rgus,

:13:05.:13:06.

last week, it pointed out crime had gone up by 15% across the Bradford

:13:07.:13:09.

district over the course of the last year.

:13:10.:13:12.

So if falling crime was a justification for a f`lling

:13:13.:13:14.

police grant, now we have got significant rising crime

:13:15.:13:20.

in the Bradford district, including in my constituencx.

:13:21.:13:23.

By the same logic, does that mean we will get a substantial increase

:13:24.:13:26.

Well, Mr Speaker, my honour`ble friend is nothing but deterlined

:13:27.:13:34.

Types of crime have increasdd and we are having reported crime,

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especially on sexual assaults and domestic violence,

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I am very pleased people have the confidence to come forward,

:13:43.:13:47.

which they would not have done in the past.

:13:48.:13:51.

To add insult to injury, not only are the Tories continuing

:13:52.:13:54.

to cut police funding, but they are expecting the public

:13:55.:13:57.

The Tory sums rely upon loc`l people being charged an extra

:13:58.:14:05.

Our citizens therefore and the communities that we serve

:14:06.:14:16.

are being asked to pay more for less.

:14:17.:14:18.

He is absolutely right to bd pointing out this sleight of hand

:14:19.:14:21.

Because the real unfairness to areas like West Midlands and

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We have a relatively low council tax base.

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So the precept brings in relatively small amounts of funding.

:14:33.:14:37.

Nothing like the amounts of funding that are being ctt

:14:38.:14:39.

But added to that, they are the areas that tend

:14:40.:14:46.

So need is not matched by the resources.

:14:47.:14:51.

It is a double whammy for the urban areas and it really penalisds places

:14:52.:14:54.

In a forward-looking county like Hertfordshire which has

:14:55.:15:05.

the pressures of supporting London and Luton, major roads to police,

:15:06.:15:12.

it has been possible through modern methods to use more

:15:13.:15:14.

police on the front line, more modern methods,

:15:15.:15:16.

and they are actually cutting the precept in Hertfordshird

:15:17.:15:19.

for the police and finding the funding settlement

:15:20.:15:21.

And at the end of the debatd, the police grant for the next

:15:22.:15:27.

Back now to Prime Minister's Questions, where there was one

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moment when the entire chamber fell silent.

:15:31.:15:33.

A Conservative MP raised the plight of Yazidi women,

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being captured and forced into sexual slavery by the so called

:15:43.:15:45.

Robert Jenrick gave just one example.

:15:46.:15:54.

They killed most of the famhly, tortured and

:15:55.:16:12.

raped, made her day slave. She is the same as thousands of Yazidi

:16:13.:16:18.

women, except they are held in captivity, but now there managed to

:16:19.:16:22.

escape. She's in the public gallery today. Will the Prime Minister

:16:23.:16:25.

celebrate the essential qualities which helped to escape

:16:26.:16:37.

Daish. She and a community of suffered at the hands of thhs brutal

:16:38.:16:47.

group in Iraq. It is a violdnt ideology. We are playing a leading

:16:48.:16:51.

role in the global coalition. In terms of Iraq where Sony Yazidis

:16:52.:16:59.

have suffered, Daish has lost 4 % of the territory a control. We are

:17:00.:17:03.

making progress, but this whll take a long time. Building up Ir`qi

:17:04.:17:08.

security forces, working with Syrian opposition forces. Building the

:17:09.:17:13.

capacity of governments in both countries to drive this evil

:17:14.:17:17.

organisation out of the Middle East. However long it takes, we mtst stick

:17:18.:17:18.

at it. The refurbishment of the Palace

:17:19.:17:20.

of Westminster provides the perfect opportunity to introduce a system

:17:21.:17:23.

of electronic voting in the Commons, She's a member of the Digit`l

:17:24.:17:26.

Democracy Commission, which is recommending a tri`l scheme

:17:27.:17:29.

of "smart-card" voting by MPs to replace the traditional system

:17:30.:17:32.

of walking through two With the Speaker, John Bercow,

:17:33.:17:34.

looking on, Ms Hillier set out the case - quoting a consultation

:17:35.:17:39.

carried out in 1998. Just over half of MPs, 53% prefer

:17:40.:17:57.

the current system. 17% found it was acceptable, although there were

:17:58.:18:00.

suggestions that voting could be quicker through smart cards, bingo

:18:01.:18:07.

readers, or handsets. Why the commission did not push harder for

:18:08.:18:10.

remote voting was a strong concern for members of the opportunhty to

:18:11.:18:15.

speak to ministers and have contact with other members. The lobby is

:18:16.:18:24.

dubbed the lobby for a reason. I thank the honourable lady for giving

:18:25.:18:26.

way, interested to hear the points she is making. Also in importance

:18:27.:18:32.

for people to physically be present. Near the chamber or in parlhament to

:18:33.:18:36.

vote. The key part of this, having electronic methods of recording we

:18:37.:18:41.

would find out how people's MPs voted, not having a situation like

:18:42.:18:47.

yesterday when he gets to r`ised a point of order, how Cabinet

:18:48.:18:50.

ministers were voting, she could give no answer. There are problems

:18:51.:18:53.

with the current system. been talking to the clerks of the

:18:54.:19:03.

House, how they record, and for those not initiated, they crossed

:19:04.:19:08.

off the list with a marker pen. That piece of paper is taken by

:19:09.:19:11.

Parliamentary staff, and not reconcile. Texas 15 minutes to walk

:19:12.:19:15.

through the lobby. Takes a considerable length of time before

:19:16.:19:20.

the vote published digitallx. My office worked out in the last

:19:21.:19:24.

Parliament we spent 245 hours queueing up in order to cast 11 3

:19:25.:19:30.

votes. Would she agree having electronic way of voting me`ns we

:19:31.:19:34.

could record extension is. Sometimes they matter, not meaning MPs were

:19:35.:19:41.

not here, but between the two choices, neither were good. She

:19:42.:19:45.

raises important issues, whx we should be debating and disctssing.

:19:46.:19:49.

In the last session of Parlhament they were 540 divisions in the

:19:50.:19:54.

Commons, even if three minutes were saved on each one, then moddrn

:19:55.:19:58.

improvement, it would have saved 27 hours for each MP.

:19:59.:20:00.

The Deputy Leader of the Colmons said voting by means of electronic

:20:01.:20:03.

cards might raise security and identity issues,

:20:04.:20:05.

and she had clear reservations about the the idea suggesting it

:20:06.:20:07.

I really do believe that thd valued tradition of linking debates to

:20:08.:20:19.

votes. That matters. I recognise the swipe card idea but still do that.

:20:20.:20:25.

The physical presence of MPs is one of those things that really matters.

:20:26.:20:27.

MPs have been asked to approve new rules on the notification

:20:28.:20:30.

of Parliament if a member is arrested.

:20:31.:20:37.

By ancient tradition, the arrest of an MP for any reason

:20:38.:20:40.

is noted in the business documents sent out to MPs every sitting day.

:20:41.:20:43.

This dates back to the time when such arrests were a tactic used

:20:44.:20:46.

After a number of recent cases it's been argued that this is unfair

:20:47.:20:50.

and the Commons Procedure Committee asked for a change in the rtles

:20:51.:20:53.

so that arrests are only reported where they could be interprdted

:20:54.:20:56.

Let me be absolutely clear, the procedure committee is not `sking

:20:57.:21:08.

for members of Parliament to receive special treatment in the eyds of the

:21:09.:21:13.

law. Such a request, if madd, would be alien to the values of otr

:21:14.:21:17.

committee, and alien to thehr wishes of our constituents. All of us on

:21:18.:21:21.

the committee believe the l`w should be applied equally, to all citizens

:21:22.:21:28.

of the United Kingdom. This presently is not the case in this

:21:29.:21:35.

House. In this House, in matters of policing and Public order, the point

:21:36.:21:38.

of public notification occurs not at the point of charge, as is the case

:21:39.:21:43.

with constituents, but at the point of arrest. If people wish to change

:21:44.:21:49.

the law, in relation to what happens when people are arrested, change the

:21:50.:21:53.

law. Plenty of time on the Parliamentary agenda for people to

:21:54.:21:58.

change the law. Plenty of opportunities for the gunmen to

:21:59.:22:02.

change the law. This is not the way to change it for members of

:22:03.:22:05.

Parliament. Therefore we should oppose this proposal. What we are

:22:06.:22:10.

doing is bringing members of parliament in line with the law

:22:11.:22:15.

that covers our constituents. The question is the notification of the

:22:16.:22:21.

arrest of members of Parlialent As many as are of the opinion, say

:22:22.:22:29.

"aye". To the contrary, "no".. I think the ayes habit. -- have it.

:22:30.:22:34.

Now, it's not unusual for MPs and peers to disagree

:22:35.:22:37.

but there's currently something of a set-to between the two Houses

:22:38.:22:40.

on an issue of tradition, with the Commons taking the side

:22:41.:22:42.

A Conservative MP sought the help of the Speaker.

:22:43.:22:48.

I seek your guidance on a m`tter that is of marginal interest to the

:22:49.:22:57.

outside world, but with risk jobs, and the traditions of the standards

:22:58.:23:05.

of the House. The change of use from paper recording of Acts of

:23:06.:23:06.

Parliament. It's the House of Lords which has

:23:07.:23:11.

proposed ditching the traditional velum, made from calfskin,

:23:12.:23:14.

for recording acts of Parli`ment. The material is famously durable,

:23:15.:23:16.

with the Domesday Book and Magna Carta surviving

:23:17.:23:18.

because they'd been made up - at least partly -

:23:19.:23:20.

of long-lasting vellum. But the Chairman of Committdes

:23:21.:23:22.

in the Lords has argued it's expensive, and switching to special

:23:23.:23:25.

archival paper would save ?80,0 0 James Gray wondered if therd

:23:26.:23:30.

was anything he could do if I were to call a debate tnder the

:23:31.:23:40.

orders of the business commhttee with a substantive notion which

:23:41.:23:45.

would require this retrograde decision to be reversed, cotld you

:23:46.:23:49.

advise me what effect that would have and our decision in thhs place,

:23:50.:23:53.

and when the other place wotld have to listen to that decision?

:23:54.:23:55.

The Commons Speaker admitted he had thought the Commons

:23:56.:23:57.

I had expected a vote would take place in this House. The matter does

:23:58.:24:17.

fall within the influence of the other place. For that reason, on

:24:18.:24:25.

account of their desire to proceed, there is no entitlement for this

:24:26.:24:29.

House to supersede the other place's will. Secondly, the honourable

:24:30.:24:35.

gentleman quite correctly jtdges it would be open to him and other

:24:36.:24:39.

members to seek a backbench business committee debate on this matter I

:24:40.:24:46.

wish the honourable gentlem`n or success, presumably in a cross-party

:24:47.:24:48.

effort to secure such a deb`te. John Bercow advised Mr Gray to go

:24:49.:24:50.

ahead and marshall his forcds. Finally, there was a warm wdlcome

:24:51.:24:53.

in the Commons at the start of the day for the new

:24:54.:24:58.

Serjeant at Arms. Kamal El-Hajji was selected

:24:59.:25:00.

by a panel of MPs headed I hope the House will join le in

:25:01.:25:14.

welcoming to the Sergeant's chair, the new Sergeant.

:25:15.:25:16.

The Serjeant at Arms is responsible for keeping

:25:17.:25:18.

order within the Commons ch`mber, committee rooms and public `reas.

:25:19.:25:20.

They are the only officials in Parliament allowed to carry

:25:21.:25:23.

weapons, including a gilt, fine-blade sword.

:25:24.:25:26.

The Serjeant at Arms, or their deputy, is also prdsent

:25:27.:25:30.

during every Commons sitting and have occasionally been required

:25:31.:25:32.

to escort unruly MPs from the chamber.

:25:33.:25:36.

And that gentle ripple of applause brings us to the end of this edition

:25:37.:25:39.

But do join me at the same time tomorrow for another round tp

:25:40.:25:43.

of the best of the day here at Westminster.

:25:44.:25:46.

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