In or Out? Live reaction and analysis

instant polling suggests might have won this debate, but it was pretty

bad tempered and we will assess in the coming minutes how much light

has been shed. This is BBC News at Five the clock. I am Jane Hill at

Broadcasting House in London. Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg have just

finished their second debate talking about Britain's place in Europe.

Nick Clegg accused Nigel Farage of conning the British people. It could

be Billy no jobs Britain. I thought you would make the case for the EU.

But you are wilfully lying to the British people.

I am in the spin room, where there were groans, laughter, Cheers, and

some brittle debate. `` brutal. I will find out who agreed with

Nick, Nigel or neither of them with reaction from Hull later.

In this barren brothels, I will digester debate with two MEPs, one

from Portugal, one from Sweden. `` in this Brussels bar. I will find

out what they made of the debate. Good evening from Broadcasting

House. One hour of debate. One that really seemed to fly by. It went

very fast, the discussion between Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal

Democrats, and Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party, much

more tetchy, flashes of bad temper on both sides, we will have fill

analysis and reaction in the coming hour. I will speak to Chief

political correspondent Norman Smith, she is in this bin room not 1

million miles from where I am. `` he is in the spin room. We will try to

talk to some of the people in that audience, an audience of 100,

questions about immigration, reform of the new, but also a lot of

questions about foreign affairs. Let us down attention and remind

ourselves of some of the key elements of this debate before we

talk to the areas get here this evening. Let us hear a brief section

of their opening statements. We find ourselves part of political union,

laws made somewhere else, all rather expensive and have open`door

immigration. If you put to a referendum would we join that union,

we would overwhelmingly say no. And there is a clear set of majority

opinion in this country, which is not against Europe, we want trade,

took what great, but we do not want to be part of our political union.

There is an obstacle, here tonight in the form of Nick Clegg, the

career political class, and their friends and big business, who want

to keep the status quo, and I want Britain to govern ourselves again,

stand tall and trade with the world. In this modern world, where there

are so many things we cannot do on own, such as dealing with climate

change, you cannot deal with criminals crossing borders, deal

with terrorism, we have to compete to make sure people invest in our

country to create jobs. All of that means we get more out of the world

by working together working with other countries. If you do what

Nigel for eyes recommends and isolate and, `` what Nigel Farrell

to recommend, we could have a Billy no influence Britain, . `` what

Nigel Farage recommends. That was part of the opening debate,

which moved on swiftly to a really substantial period of time spent

discussing foreign affairs, and you will remember that Nigel Farage has

attracted a good deal of comment, a good deal of criticism in many

quarters for comments he made about Russia's President Putin,

effectively saying he really admired Vladimir Putin, stressing as a

political operator, not a person, but this has come back time and

again in the last few days and very much came to the fore very near the

start of this evening's debate here in the theatre as well. It turned

inevitably to Ukraine and everything we have seen happening they are, and

in Crimea. Let us hear part of that exchange. If you look at what has

happened with the Ukraine, we have had a message from ten years, not

just from the EU, David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband all

seeing to the Ukraine, and join the European Union. While you at it, you

could join NATO as well. This is something seen by Vladimir Putin to

be deeply provocative full is not we have given false hope to those

western Ukrainians, and we saw them with EU flags and banners, toppling

a democratically elected leader, which I know was corrupt and not

perfect, but a leader was toppled. I do not want to be part of an

emerging expansionists EU foreign policy, which will be dangerous to

peace. Listening to that, it seems to be he is the party of Vladimir

Putin. It seems extraordinary his loathing of the European Union is so

all`consuming he is beating to justify and defend the actions of

one man, Vladimir Putin, and look at what is happening in Syria, where he

can, with one telephone call, could help one of the most brittle

dictators in the world. There are 200 people dying in Syria, being

killed every single day, and Nigel Farage says he admires the way

Vladimir Putin has played, as if it is a game, the terrible humanitarian

catastrophe in Syria. That is by and think his position is absolutely

indefensible. `` that is why I think. You are happy to go and bomb

Libya. And now the situation is worse than it was. Some applause for

Nigel Farage talking about Libya and interesting that he attracted over

the course of the other applause on quite a few occasions and we will

discuss some of that later. That was just a flavour of the debate around

foreign policy, going on for quite a while. Eventually, the debate moved

on to immigration. It is a key topic here among these men, in the last

debate and here again tonight. Very different views of cause and the

debate heated up at a point when Nick Clegg took out a leaflet

essentially showing this to Nigel Farage, which was an old UKIP posted

about the issue. It is a picture of a very and happy native American and

says, she used to ignore immigration, no he lives on a

reservation, suggesting that if we ignore immigration, the British

people will be cooped up on reservations. By staying in the

European Union, we will not be cooped up in a Native American

reservation. We have got to have a level`headed debate. I do not know

that leaflet. It is yours. I do not recognise that. All sorts of things

get put out. I would not endorse its sentiments. But it is bad news for

ordinary British workers and families that we have had, over the

last decade, because an in the labour market, not even benefits,

with wage compression and wages going down by 14% in real terms

since 2007, youth unemployment doubling, which is good for the

rich, but bad news for ordinarily Britons. We need control on

immigration over the numbers that come here and over the quality

coming here, and I do not want to discriminate against India and New

Zealand because of an open door to Bulgaria and Romania. We need

immigration policy based on quality. And again, more besides about that

issue. We will talk to fact checkers in the next while to assess the

veracity of claims that both leaders made. First, let us rejoin Norman

Smith, chief Bullet ago correspondent. What sense are you

getting? Initial thoughts? Welcome to the spin room. That

huddle of journalists are around the UKIP director of human occasions,

giving his spin on what happened. Earlier, just over there, was Nick

Clegg's main man, who has now gone to the bar to get his briefing. What

I debate, Nick Clegg humming out much more fired up and passionate,

even David Dimbleby seeing to make some space and give more time on

Nigel Farage, but a different debate to last time. Nigel Farage accusing

Nick Clegg of wilfully lying to the British people. We had Nick Clegg

hitting back, saying that Nigel Farage had not been entirely

truthful, much more brutal debate. You are the number two Manford, and

Danny Alexander, your take, Paul? I thought it was heated, much better

than last week, and Nigel won, he had the better argument on trade,

Syria. Danny Alexander, what was your man on? It was a very strong

performance. He was clearly exposing a lot of the anti`European Union

arguments and calling them dangerous fantasy. It was more Nigel Mirage.

We saw the real passion neck has for this argument and the strong bases

that Britain is stronger and more effective as part of the European

Union. You can have as much passion as you want, but if you are wrong,

you are wrong, and Nick Clegg is. We will be freer, stronger, able to do

our own trade deals. And one organisation that wants to trade

with as, wants to be our friends, and that is the Commonwealth. I

understand we have comments from Nick Clegg as he was leaving.

Mr Clegg, do you think you won that debate? Very lively, I enjoyed it

hugely, and this will remain a major part of the European elections, and

I hope those who agree with me, that it is important to remain in the

European Union, able vote for the party, Liberal Democrats.

Suggestions you may have lost, is that damaging? I have set out our

admits not made for 20 years. Nigel Farage has been able to make his

argument is, frankly making up facts, not challenge brought `` not

challenged. I hope I have shown that we can show we should remain in

Europe. And continuing to the European elections and beyond. There

was Nick Clegg leaving the debate. I am still with Paul and Danny. A low

blow to accuse Nick Clegg of wilfully lying to the British

people? What would you say if someone was not telling the truth?

These guys are being economical with the truth, whether it be laws coming

out of the European Union, which they say is 7%, some say 17%. Jobs

would go if we lost the European Union? We would still be friends

with European Parliament, but not dictated to. And you man talking

about Nigel Farage leading the party of Vladimir Putin? Nigel Farage has

said he admires Vladimir Putin. The truth is that Nick Clegg has been

setting out clearly why millions of jobs in this country are dependent

on membership of the European Union, confirmed today by the British car

industry. Dealing with the myths from people against the European

Union about the amount of laws produced. And setting out that we

have more clout, strengths, jobs because we are part of the European

Union. I do not buy the jobs argument. I be seeing tariff walls

will go up if we leave the European Union? `` are we seeing? Of course

not. We are the sixth largest economy in the world. Nick Clegg is

doing down Britain to justify staying in the European Union. Did I

detect your guy was making a conscious bid for Labour Party

support? Seeing big business was blocked the leaving the European

Union, attacking wealthy landowners for going ahead with wind farms. Is

that part of the UKIP pitch? If you know how the European Union laws are

made by the European Commission it's with big business. I don't buy that

at all what we have been talking about here is the views of

businesses in the United Kingdom who employ millions of people. I spent

today with the British car industry who employ 700,000 people in this

country. They made very clear their ability to do business in Britain,

to export in Britain and invest in Britain comes from our membership of

the European single market. I don't think we should listen to UKIP on

this we should listen to the businesses that employ people. I

have to stop you. I think we might have some polling to give us a sense

of who actually won. Now, if I'm OK, let us go to Joe from YouGov. Last

week they gave us a verdict which said Nigel Farage won easily. Joe,

this week who won? It's Nigel Farage again. 68% for him. 27% for Nick

Clegg. The resounding victory for Nigel Farage. Nick Clegg, obviously

on the back foot. Felt he had to try something different. He needed a

plan b, his plan a wasn't working. It seems his plan b failed as as

well. Interesting. 68% for Nigel Farage. What was the figure for Nick

Clegg? 27%. He has gone down? Yes. Talk about who has gone away from

him. Is it Labour people who have been moving away from him? Where

have his votes gone? It's impossible to tell at this stage, results have

only just come through. We will analyse it in great detail. Last

week he failed to convince his own supporters, one in five Lib Dem

supporters thought that Nigel Farage had won. Around one in three pro`EU

people thought Nigel Farage won. You didn't see the opposite between the

anti`EU and UKIP supporters. It will be interesting to see if there is a

similar pattern this week. Was much more fired up. Talking over Nigel

Farage. Much more passionate. Is there any hint that actually maybe

he over did it and last week we had Mr Reasonable, Mr Seasonable which

people respected more from Nick Clegg, maybe today he went too far.

Could that explain the drop? He came across as someone on the back foot.

That hasn't played with the viewers. It's a poll of the people who viewed

the debate, not the national population. Perhaps they don't

respond as well to this change in position. Thank you very much. Let

us walk down here a bit, if I may. I will show you these are all

journalists now busily writing their stories for tomorrow. This will be

crucial really in determining who wins, who loses, because it's the

headlines tomorrow which maybe what most people will read and what most

people will see. A lot of people have watched the debate. A lot of

people will read about it. That will determine how they are going to

interpret tonight's debate. Interesting though, if you look at

the polling, it suggests it wasn't a great night for Nick Clegg. You

wonder a bit whether maybe he went just a little bit too heavy on some

of the sort of emotional stuff. I will take you down here, you can see

in the corner, you see that little group over there that is Patrick O'

briefing journalists. An awful lot of briefing going on from the UKIP

people. If we walk down a bit and see what is going on. Can I have a

brief word with you? Very brief. You are obviously writing your copy now.

Give me your take on the stuff you will write, the sort of lines you

will be writing? I'm a sketch writer. I'm really posing obviously

to some extent posing the question of who was better, but also what was

clearly striking was Clegg, some pre`prepared, some less so, lines

that were much more as we were Audley briefed in advance they would

be "emotional." He took the argument to Farage. Do you think he went too

far? This was a different Nick Clegg, wasn't it? I don't think it

went too far. It isn't quite enough. Farage is still standing. In a way,

Nick Clegg was behaving as though he had to demolish him tonight to stop

us leaving Europe. That clearly didn't happen. The other thing that

struck me. I thought Nigel Farage was restraining himself almost

adopting the more measured position compared to last week when he seemed

to be sweating and relying on rhetorical attacks. Today he seemed

to be temper that Yeah. I think possibly in tone, but not in

content. To give you an example to suggest he is with a force that is

somehow going to get everybody, every European country to leave the

EU I think is just a little on the ambitious side. Thank you very much.

Over there, that's Nick Clegg's main spinner. Checking his phone. No

doubt reading the tweets and texts. Trying to work out how things have

gone down. If we go over here, you can see some of the media crush

still going on. Let me swing you around here. There is John Redwood,

Conservative MP. There haven't been that many Conservative MPs here.

Let's... Hang on a second. We have UKIP's doctor of communications. The

polls againle giving Nigel Farage a clear win and a bigger win than last

week? A landslide, that was very much my sense of it. It really was

threadbare stuff from Nick Clegg. The UK message is you sent out one

of your knights on his charger. He is going back to the castle with his

lance broken. Farage is breathing flames all over the political class

of this country. They deserve nothing less. Come on out David

Cameron, come on ought Ed Miliband, debate with us and see how you get

on. Did you say to your man ` rein it in you went too far last time. He

seemed more measured? He was more relaxed. He won last time. 1`0 up.

He thought he got the measure of Nick Clegg. He thought Nick Clegg

didn't have compelling points to make. There was a feeling if it was

going well he could almost be Ronald Reaganesque in the way he addressed

Nick Clegg. He didn't need to be combative, even if Clegg was

throwing the barn door and misrepresenting and all the stuff he

did. It doesn't surprise me. I think we won hands down on issues like

immigration and energy policy, strangely enough, which Clegg would

always assume he would have won on. He got smashed on it. On democracy,

on the referendum, on the sliding performance of the EU, in terms of

the world economy, and what the future looks like for Britain. A

global future outside, not a regional customs unit. Did your man

have a pint before the debate? He didn't have a pint this week. He did

have a glass of perfectly acceptable BBC red wine. Lucky him! Jane, that

is probably all we will do from the Spin Room. It's all going on here.

We will bring you more in a little bit of time. That is the take at the

moment. It seems that Nigel Farage again, at least in the polls, has

come out on top. Very, very interesting. Norman, thank you very

much indeed. To remind you of those YouGov figures, instant polling from

the YouGov polling organisation. 68% to Farage, 27% to Clegg, with the

remainder don't know. 5% in the don't know category. Who performed

best, I should stress, was the question there. Interesting, Norman

talking to spin masters, politicians. Let us talk to people

in the audience, randomly selected, in no particular order. Joe, orcs

Olly, Janice and Clive. What did you think? ? You were in there, was it

real, genuine, passionate? Your thoughts? I would say it was

genuine. Great fun to watch. Fun! Great fun. You know how to have a

good time! Yeah. I don't know if it felt real or genuine. They probably

said the same things they say all the time to... Same standard answers

think give to questions. I don't think they went into too much depth.

Do you think one performed better than last time? Farage probably did

better than Clegg. I think that is more to do with Clegg than Farage

more than anything. Both of them were quite unpalatable. Clegg under

sold it? Yeah, totally. Farage accused him of being backing big

business and big government, he didn't shy away from that. I think

he wanted to say about being pro`immigration he shied away from,

they are not vote winners. I don't think he really looked comfortable

at times. Joe, as someone who sat in there and watched them. When you

hear the polling which put Nigel Farage ahead, does that tally with

your experience sitting in the room? Yes, maybe. I can say that. You feel

he performed Yes. I prefer Britain to stay in Europe. , your thoughts

now. Did you say earlier that you didn't see last week's debate? I

didn't. What attracted you to listen to this tonight? I saw something o

about Nigel Farage on the telly this week that really impressed me. I

wanted to see what he was all about. What did you think? I loved him.

He's my hero. I loved him. I thought he walked all over Nick Clegg. I

really did, Nick Clegg didn't give a straight answer to a straight

question. He counter acted everything he said. I thought he was

super man. Nigel Farage, he took a battering for the first 15`20

minutes in terms of what he said about Russia's President. Did you

feel he was unfairly lambasted there or stood up for himself? He was

brought up all the time. Nick Clegg scored a few points saying he was

Putin's side. He kept bringing it up, bringing it ups and bringing it

up. It didn't do him any favours, Nick Clegg. My hero. You asked a

question. My question what, was would the EU be like in 10 years? I

saw last week and came out the same as last week, unconvinced by either

of them. My personal concern is that the growing population and lack of

housing in this country. That really got skimmed over. That is

interesting. There was a lady in the audience who asked that specific

question. She said ` I recognise the benefits of immigration, she said,

I'm really concerned that the infrastructure of our country

effectively can't cope? She is talking about health service, public

transport, that is interesting. You felt neither of them tackled that?

Nick Clegg brushed it off as if it wasn't important. Nick, if you are

listening and watching this, absolutely it means everything to us

and the next generation down. I have teenagers. I want them to get a job

and buy a house. At the moment, I can't see that happening. It's that

strong. Yet, some people might say UKIP would appeal to people who

perhaps feel that way, who are worried about their children and

grandchildren. He is not do it for that either? I'm middle ground.

Renegotiate. Staying in as we are is not an option. I would prefer a

middle ground where something serious is changed. The northern

European countries will club together at some point to make this

happen. It has to happen. When you say that Nigel Farage is your hero.

Is that the sort of topic that Clive is talking about there? Is that what

matters to you? Do you worry about your children and grandchildren? He

seems to be more for the people than me. Down`to`earth and realistic. I

understand what he is talking about, which a lot of politicians haven't a

clue what they are going on about. We need more housing, hospitals and

schools. Of course we do. It's not happening. Clive, to your point

where you felt clearly let down by both of them. I wonder what you

think of this polling then that suggests Nigel Farage is so far out

in front? I don't think he has got the stature on the world stage that

we need from a politician to lead the country, neither do the other

three. The two that weren't in the room and the one that was. We don't

have the stature of politicians. I think Nick Clegg again came over as

the bullying Head Boy, who didn't take the public seriously. I would

say that to his face if he was here now. Very interesting point on which

to end. Someone is telling me on the end he left without saying very much

at all. Nigel Farage without saying much at all. I misunderstood that.

Nick Clegg said a few words. I was told that Nigel Farage had a small

glass of BBC red wine. I will leave you with that thought. I can't offer

you one of those. You might be able to find somewhere locally. Thank you

for waiting in the cold for us. The thank you for giving us your

opinions. Four randomly selected people in the audience there.

Interesting to hear from one person who did ask a question that despite

that really dramatic difference in the polling there, 68% to Nigel

Farage and 27 to Nick Clegg he felt his question wasn't addressed by

either leader. That is interesting. We will see if that turns out in the

longer term polling. We can now return to Hull our political

correspondent is there. What are people saying to you there, Tim?

longer term polling. We can now return to Hull our political There

was a lot at stake for both men. Nigel Farage wants to win over

voters. Nick Clegg wants to win back many voters that his party lost

since it went into coalition with the Conservative Party. I have two

party activists from both sides. You are the regional chairman of UKIP in

Yorkshire. A pretty bad tempered of fear, the debate? Nigel has pulled

it out the bag again, standing up for Great Britain and the British

people against Nick Clegg, who was standing up for the European Union,

securing his pension money when he retires, and I think we have seen

that and, and made it 22nd, it will be when the people decide who they

believe. `` on neighbour 22nd. Had you ever seen that poster before,

seeing whether Native American, that people could end up on the

reservation? That was in the late 1990s, with someone standing in a

council seat. As soon as we saw that poster, we as the person to get rid

of it. They have obviously find this, they are desperate, going back

into history to find these things. You are live adult `` you are

Liberal Democrat councillor. It is said that Nigel Farage increased his

lead over Nick Clegg. Bad news for you? Nick Clegg got out his key

message saying that we will be in work when we are in Europe.

Important to communicate that to thousands of voters, really good for

the Lib Dems. But will that performance win back lost voters

across the UK that your party has lost since going into government?

Jobs is the key issue, coming up all of the time. We need those jobs,

those that we have, because we had in the EU. If we are not, a lot of

those jobs would not happen. If UKIP were in charge, we would not have

those jobs. This is the old 3 million jobs that comes out every

time, tired old argument, complete rubbish. We were speaking to one

professor who wrote the report 15 years ago and he says it was taken

out of context, there will be no jobs lost if we come out of the EU.

One company did not come to this city because we are in the EU, but

to make a profit, they came here to make a profit. It is scare tactics

that the Lib Dems put out every time to try and get the votes. Siemens

announced it is building a wind turbine manufacturing plant to

create 1000 jobs. The point UKIP make as they would come anyway

because it is profitable? But the UK boss said it would not be able to

get Siemens to invest if the UK was not in the EU. The boss said that.

On the jobs issue, there has been a new report coming out saying it is

more like 4 million jobs linked to the EU add more important for jobs

in the North than in the south, someone important for faces like

Hull. Nick came out fighting, no more of the nice guy. Polls suggest

he came off deck and best? `` second best. He needs to come out fighting.

He is the one doing that fighting. We have not seen Ed Miliband biting,

not seen David Cameron fighting. It is Nick Clegg fighting for Britain

and places like Hull. Will you celebrate with a pint tonight? Yes,

and I am sure Nigel will be. None of that BBC red wine on a very cold

night in Hull. We have heard from a UKIP campaigner and a Lib Dem

councillor. It is 1`all. That is the result of the Hull jury.

Tim Iredale in Hull. Possibly more from him later. Note to return to

the spin room, Norman Smith has more guest.

I will talk to John Redwood in a few minutes, but want to read some

details of the pole. `` poll. Nigel Farage got 68%, Nick Clegg down to

27%. Compare that to last week, when 57% for Nigel Farage. Nick Clegg has

plummeted nine points from 36%. 33% of Liberal Democrats think Nigel

Farage won. 50% of the pro`European is in the audience, believing we

should be in the European Union, believe Nigel Farage won. In

appalling terms, it would appear close to a knockout for Nigel

Farage, a fairly substantial significant lead. John Redwood was

watching that debate. And you surprised by those polls? I thought

Nigel Farage had won it, I thought Nick Clegg shouted too much, and he

caricatured Mr Farage in a way that was grotesque. Wouldn't you be

worried to is doing so well, because he is coming after your votes? I am

not worried. The public will now want to hear the Conservative

proposal that we will negotiate a new relationship. We need that. We

do not want power is going to Europe. We will trust the British

people with the referendum. The problem for Mr Farage is offering a

referendum, but no MPs in the House of Commons to deliver it. The

Conservative Party is close to a majority to give that referendum.

You may be won to Nigel Farage to fade away? If his strength grows, it

in crutches on your territory, but it could be more likely that the

Labour Party could win the election. I am not afraid of democratic

debate. Come the election, we need people to vote for a Conservative

majority government which is the only thing that can deliver that

relationship we might want and more importantly the referendum so that

people know that, if they do not like the deal, we can vote to leave.

Why do you think we saw that fall in support for Nick Clegg tonight?

Maybe it was overcompensating for last week with a consensus that he

was too restrained. I think he was too shouted, had questionable facts

and figures, rely too much on attacking his opponent, and I am not

surprised that the pro`European is the. Like that he did not come out

and say why Europe needed all these powers. He seemed terribly defensive

about the huge power Europe has and denied how much lawmaking capacity

it enjoys. Thank you. I will see if I can interrupt my colleague, Chris

Mason, who will tolerate this rude interruption. Tim Farron, these hall

readings are not good for your man, down at 27%. And you joking? Have

you seen the Lib Dem ratings? I thought Nick won the debate

handsomely. The first serious politician for 20 years or more to

take on the anti`European rhetoric peddled by the political classes of

which Nigel Farage is part, showing bravery to show the unpopular side

of the debate and bravely. He won comfortably. If you look at the

Liberal Democrat's position, this is a massive step in the right

direction. One other fighting from the polls is 33% of Liberal

Democrats thought Nigel Farage won. Liberals are so reasonable. That is

just life. I thought we won the debate comfortably. What is moral

board and is we stand up for Britain. This was never about being

pro`or anti`Europe. If it in the interest of Britain to defend 3`4

million jobs? Of course it is. It is right that Nick showed the bravery

and principle to take that on. He came first. I'm sure who came third

and fourth and that is Ed Miliband and David Cameron. How far was

denied a wake`up call for pro`Europeans? It would seem there

is some more mental behind Nigel Farage `` is some more mental? ``

some momentum. We do not want to risk jobs unless someone has the

backbone and principle to stand up for Britain's interests and Nick

Clegg is that man. Thank goodness someone is doing it. I know you said

your man won. But was he overcompensating for last week with

a much more abrasive, in your face Nick Clegg, may be going too far? It

is good to be passionate. Facts and figures were focused on last week. A

lot of the fact that Nigel Farage bases his arguments are pretty much

made up. This week, it was right to say that being part of this European

Union is not some boring constitutional argument, it is

important to have a job, whether industry stays or leaves in Britain,

important to catch criminals, important that we tackle climate

change, peace and security, it matters that we remain part of the

European Union to face threats to those challenges. We should be

passionate about this and so is Nick Clegg. Very interesting

interpretations of what happened. All the journalists getting down to

the details of their stories for tomorrow's newspapers, many of them

picking up these all findings that are quite stark, 68% for Nigel

Farage, a great thumping majority, Nick Clegg down to 27%, and one

third of Liberal Democrats actually deciding that Nigel Farage was the

winner. And I expect, speaking to some journalist later, I expect that

many of them all right about a victory for Nigel Farage.

`` will write about. We will do some fact checking here.

Before we do so, let us head to Brussels itself and Ben Wright has

been taking the temperature. We have heard a lot about what Nick

Clegg and Nigel Farage make of Brussels, so we thought we would see

what Brussels makes of them, in a bar opposite European Commission.

Maybe some more important in the Champions' League football match,

but we saw two MEPs watching the debate. We have an MEP, conservative

from Sweden. And a former diplomat and now Socialist MEP from Portugal.

You watch the debate, the whole hour, what was your impression? I

was struck by this beach of Mr Farage, impressing the negatively,

very backwards, 19th century, anti`globalisation, and against the

regulation we need to make globalisation work for the people

and he was lying, scaremongering, all this talk about immigration,

what if Portugal or Spain decided to have the same policy and take out

all the Britons they are in retirement? `` kick out. It is

ridiculous. He spoke about the Nazis party in Greece, which has exactly

the same speeches as he has. This was very anti`British when he was

cleaning the tutors. `` when he was claiming patriotism. He was against

the values for which I believe Britain stands for. How did the

debate look to you? I have heard Nigel Farage before, he is a

populist giving a simplistic picture. I am not a big fan of the

Liberal Democrats, particularly here in Brussels, but I was impressed by

Nick Clegg. He put a pretty good argument. But I missed `` but it is

complicated to work with others. We saw examples of the complications of

being part of the European Union, but how complicated is the world

outside? That was not part of the debate. And what about the debate

about being in or out, how does that look to people over here? Nick Clegg

is in power with the Tories, who want a referendum, who are indeed

giving the floor to all these people with this supposed sovereign speech,

it's actually against the interests of Britain because it's for a Europe

that is passed. That kind of challenges we face are trance nation

alchallenges no country alone can face, big terrorism and big

organised crime. If Britain wants to change Europe. As a socialist, also

critical of Europe, this Europe of ultra liberalism. If we need change,

we need Britain inside Europe working for change. Britain is very

much responsible for a lot of things that I want changed, namely all this

financial deregulation, tax evasion and tax fraud. I disagree with

everything she says right now. What I think is so strange in this

debate. For example, if this would have been Sweden, you would have a

lot of criticism over the European Union. A lot of criticism that a lot

of Brits would agree with, but leaving is not an option. That is `

I think that is the difference between Britain and most... There is

a lot of talk in Brussels about the democratic deficit at the heart of

the European Union that populations don't feel connection with this

place. This is deep distrust. That is what this debate is having out in

public. Trying to increase the engagement. Do you think this debate

should happen in your countries? The debate in itself is good. You

haven't debated Europe enough in Britain. The problem is that when

you do it explodes in the face of everybody. The problem is, if you

should have a reasonable debate, debate the option of being in,

working reform into the debate, how to reform the European Union. Last

word to you? We need ` I'm critical about this democratic deficit, it by

participating in the next European elections in electing people that

really want to change Europe in a way that is responsible ``

responsive to the citizens concerned. The citizens concerned

are about unemployment and growth that is sustainable. That will of

course you cannot do outside the EU. You need to pursue the fight inside

the EU. Anna and Christopher, thank you very much for giving up your

evening and watching the debate with us. Thank you Ben Wright in

Brussels. We will talk to a few more people here in a couple of minutes

who were in the audience here at the Radio Theatre. Before I do that,

let's head to another part of Westminster, let's get the thoughts

of the Labour MP Emily Thornberry,ed Shadow Attorney General, Labour MP

in London. Good evening to you, Emily Thornberry. Do you think

Britain's voters have been well served by this debate this evening?

Hi, Jane. I have to be honest with you, I had low expectations of this

debate. I didn't really think it was talking about things that people

talk to me about, in terms of their priorities. Their priorities are I

think about making ends meet. And, so I wasn't really expecting much.

It was Better than I thought. It is, in the end, it is a side show. The

important thing is seeing the debate between the two people who may be

the next Prime Minister. Our worry at the moment is that the Tories

seemed to have pulled out of negotiations in relation to there

being a debate between the two main party leaders. They don't want to

talk about it until after party conferences. If they do pull out,

people will be very disappointed in that because I think that debate,

between the two potential Prime Ministers, will be about the real

bread`and`butter issues that affect people on a day`to`day basis. One

observation tonight said that you can debate whether Nigel Farage was

first or Nick Clegg was second, or the other way round is, the bottom

line is the people who were third and fourth were David Cameron and Ed

Miliband. They didn't step up to the plate and didn't engage, even though

they recognise that people have genuine concerns regarding the issue

of Europe? I don't think that it is a major concern of most people. I

also think that it was a debate between one man who people don't

really trust and another one who people don't really want. I think it

was a side show. I think there are more important issues to debate.

There are some people who do feel passionately about it, but they

don't represent the majority of people. That's how it is. You say

most people aren't interested, we have seen tonight, we saw it in the

debate last week, that the issue of immigration actually does matter to

an awful lot of people. It does actually tie in, for some people,

for some voters, with the cost of living argument that you started by

talking about? There might be people listening to you thinking, that is

high`handed. I'm struggling, I think it feeds into what is in my pocket

and how I'm struggling right now? You went into the issue of

immigration. I have no doubt that people do have concerns about

immigration and they have concerns about what the affect it may have on

uncertain parts of the country when there is a large amount of

immigration that goes into a particular area at short notice and

people aren't used to it. I understand that completely. I

dibated with Nigel Farage on that on question Time `` debated. This was

supposed to be billed as a debate about Europe, primarily. I think

primarily, people want to get on with their day`to`day life. I don't

think people feel that the issues of Europe and many of the things they

were talking about tonight were particularly important. I'm sorry, I

know we are not going to agree, but I watched it. That's my view. Thank

you very much indeed for your time tonight. We will talk to audience

members in a moment. Anti` Uben is with me. What were the key issues

that stood out. What is keeping you gainfully employed this evening? We

were promised a ding`dong row, the battle was over how much of our Lous

were dictated from Brussels. With Nigel Farage accusing Nick Clegg

ofling lying to the British public with this 7% figure, which is the

number of parliamentary stat oars that come from Brussels and if you

include a few things that aren't pry Mary legislation you can get to 14%.

If you include all those legislations you can get to 50%.

UKIP wants to use a figure of 75%, which they worked out themselves by

taking a German study from a few years ago. 84% in Germany. UKIP

decided it's 75% we are not part of the euro they have extrapolated.

They are saying 75%. Nick Clegg saying 7%. You can get higher than

7%, hard to get over 50%. The 75% figures look perhaps a bit

unconvincing. Interesting. Something of a plug. Explain how people can

find out more, if they have seen things in the debate they are not

sure about and check up on. Explain how they can access your excellent

information and try to unravel this? You can find the live page at bbg

bbc.co.uk/politics. Let's bring in some people who were at the debate

tonight. Thank you very much for joining us. Francesca, who stood out

for you? To me neither of them stood out that much. I felt like they were

reading off a sheet no matter question you were going to skchlt

they were going to say the same thing anyway. I don't believe they

answered the questions that is were truly asked. There one issue you

went in wanting to know about and you felt they didn't address?

Immigration. I don't believe they addressed it that well. I think they

kind of said what they thought the party of people wanted to know, but

they didn't say the facts. You still don't know what they want... What

they want... Do you feel better served, concrete answers as far as

you are concerned, John? No, not better served. I was around when the

referendum was for us to vote on. I voted to go in the European market

in the 70s. I feel that has changed so much now that I don't feel 100%

behind staying in. Although I still believe in a Common Market that is

nonpolitical. I believe in the union, as regards to the commercial

aspect it was very, very important for business. You believe in the

jobs argument ` Too much influence on what we do. You would like to see

more renegotiation? One of the things they said about the Lisbon

Treaty, I really do believe that Nigel Farage was correct when he

said we should have had a referendum for that because it was such a

serious change. Benjamin, you asked a question. Remind us what your

question was? Relating to employment. And, people being

foreign and being residents. In my neighbourhood where I live, people

are having problems with manual labour and being a resident ` They

cannot find work? They cannot find work. When they turn to studying

their diplomas and GCSE's for universities is not good enough for

a day job in Sainsbury's. I'm a resident who had to turn to trade `

Did either man answer your question? They both did. They basically made

it clear that there will be more employment for foreigners and the

residents will hopefully in the future feel a lot more comfortable

within that area. That was good enough. You come out of it thinking

` I could vote for that man come May 22nd Definitely. Who for? Nick, the

one on the left? Nick Clegg? Yeah. You went into this on the fence, how

have you come out? Well, slightly on the fence still, but more leaning

towards staying in for a bit to see if some of the things that come from

the inside in changing the rules and the laws to our benefit can be

worked from inside. I doubt it. I wasn't too pleased with Nigel

Farage's performance. It was a bit of a showpiece. Nigel Farage? Nigel

Farage. To be clear who you are talking about. It was a bit of a

showbusiness thing. I thought they were both playing to the audience.

Both playing to the audience? Rather than the questions. I veer more

towards Nick Clegg at the moment. Very interesting. I wish we could

talk longer. We can't. Good to talk to you. Interesting that final

thought. Thank you very much to all of you. Perhaps playing to the

audience. According to the audience polling, just to remind you, Nigel

Farage apparently 68% is the figuring that he has won over

tonight. Nick Clegg, 27%, with 5% saying they just don't know. Let's

see whether that polling pans out over the long`term. Much more after

9.00pm. Stay with us for nurt analysis and more reaction. Let's

pause and catch up with the weather prospects. I can see you through

those revolving doors. We are really close. Now the weather for tonight,

I think a little mixed. There will be rain around, a lot of cloud

too,let evenings ending on a cloudy note for most of us. The weather

across the south hasn't been too bad, that is the south`east,

temperatures up near easterly 20 degrees. The rain will clip the

south`east of England, Wales and Northern Ireland and the North East

of England and Scotland will get rain over night. Misty and murky

here as well. It should stay dry in the south`east. Mildest weather here

around about 10 degrees. Tomorrow, across the South West, a wet start

to the day, the rain will move northwards. There could be rumbles

of thunder to the south`east. This is where we will have temperatures

up to nearly 20 degrees with hazy sunshine. Chilly in the North East

of England and east of Scotland. That is it from me.

This is BBC News. I am Jane Hill at BBC Broadcasting House, where Nick

Clegg and Nigel Farage have again been debating Britain's place in

Europe. During heated exchanges, the UKIP leader accused the leader of

the Liberal Democrats of not telling the truth. By seeing 7% of laws are

made in Brussels, you are wilfully lying to the British people. If you

do what Nigel Farage says and isolate Britain, it will be barely

no jobs Britain. I am Norman Smith, in the spin room, Wear tomorrow's

headlines and Nick Clegg's people are saying his man was not beaten

all stop I'm Clive Myrie. The other main stories on the BBC N ews at

Nine... There are risks to the elderly and those with breathing

problems after high levels of air pollution affect parts of England.

And time is running out for a 19`year`old Mauritian student due to

be deported tonight, despite protests to keep her in the UK.

Good evening from Broadcasting House. In the last hour, the second

debate has finished between Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage. It was tasty

at times, pretty argumentative. `` it was testy. Flew faster than last

week. It went through a number of topics. And there was a lot of

debate about foreign policy, Vladimir Putin, Russia, Ukraine.

Start very much with foreign policy. All of this Off the backs as you

might know of the comments that Nigel Farage made about Russia's

President Putin. He has been challenged on that a loot. He was

challenged again earlier in the day. This is how it came up in the debate

itself. David Cameron, Nick Clegg, and, I'm afraid, Ed Miliband too,

have been saying to Ukraine, why don't you join the European Union.

While you are at it, why don't you join NATO too. And this is something

that has been seen by Putin to be a deeply provocative act. We have

given false hope to those western Ukranians. Did you see them with

their EU flags and banners. They toppled a democratically`elected

leader. I. . `` I have to say, listening to that it seems to me if

I'm the leader of the party of in, Nigel Farage is the leader of the

party of Putin. He is now seeking to justify and defend the actions of a

man, Vladimir Putin, who, let's not ` Ukraine is one thing, look what

the is happening in Syria. He is the only man on the planet who with one

telephone call to President Assad, the most brutal dictator in the

world could help to bring the participants to that awful conflict

to the negotiating table. Is absolutely indefencively.

It moved onto immigration. It got quite heated when Nick Clegg pulled

out a poster, and old UKIP poster talking about immigration It's a

picture of aen happy looking Native American much of it says, "he used

to live immigration now he lives on a reservation" the suggestion being

if we ignore immigration the British people will be cooped up on an

reservation. We will not be cooped up on a Native American reservation,

what will you say next, you are Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull. We have

to have a levelled headed debate about this. I don't know about that

leaflet. It's your leaflet. I don't recognise that leaflet. I will say

this to you. Look! K!? All sort of things get put out. I don't

recognise that leaflet. I wouldn't endorse its sentiments. It's bad

news for ordinary British workers and families that we've had, over

the course of the last decade, because of an excess in the labour

market, not benefits, labour market, wage compression, wages have gone

down 14% in real terms since 2007. Doubling of youth unemployment. Good

for the rich, cheaper nannies, gardners, bad news for ordinary

Britons. We need a control on immigration.

One key topic immigration. Now you let us go to Norman Smith. He is

gauging opinion. And that instant polling was very striking.

I have moved to the bar for obvious reasons. The latest polling is very

interesting. This is an ICM poll, which follows the earlier one from

YouGov, showing a major win for UKIP. 69% for Nigel Farage against

31% for Nick Clegg. The previous Paul was 68% for Nigel Farage, 27%

for Nick Clegg. A big chunky majority for Nigel Farage. You

cannot massage those figures away. When Nick Clegg let this evening, he

was trying to put the best gloss on tonight's clash.

Did you think blue`1`macro? `` did you think you won? It was very

lively. I hope, for those people who agree with me that, whilst not

perfect, it isn't brought in to remain within the European Union,

and vote for the Liberal Democrats. You may have lost that, the second

one in a row, is that damaging? I am making arguments not made for 20

years, people like Nigel Farage have been able to make up acts and

challenged for 20 years, you cannot change that in two hours. `` make up

facts. I hope that in these debates that will help and it will continue

until the election. David Cameron and Ed Miliband were not here. I do

not even know if they watched it. David Cameron had one good excuse

last time, as he was at Buckingham Palace. This time, I do not know

whether he watched it. The only reaction we have had from the

Conservatives has been from the defence minister. She was

interviewed earlier. The majority of people want a change and Nigel

Farage cannot deliver change and Nick Clegg does not want any change.

The only way we can get change is with representations, we negotiating

and have a referendum. That is what matters. Only the Conservatives can

deliver on a referendum. Who did you find yourself cheering for? Who do

you think performed well? Your coalition partner? I am more

inclined to support Nick Clegg, but I do not think it was the real

debate, that is making sure we really go see it our position,

putting it to the British people with a referendum only we can

deliver. Nick Clegg does not want that, Nigel Farage cannot deliver a

referendum, nor any of the changes he wants to put forward. Shouldn't

your man have been there making his argument and standing there

alongside them, so you had someone to cheer for? The real debate and

argument is high we make the changes we want and then high we implement

that effectively through a referendum, that is what it is

about, giving the British people a real choice, which can only be

through a referendum, and neither of these two can deliver that, only we

can. At least with Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, we know where they

stand, one once as out of the European Union, the other wants us

to stay in. People are more confused with the Conservative Party

position, aren't they? We want to re`negotiate with Europe and have a

referendum and trust the British people to make up their minds, there

will be a great debate when we have that referendum, and it will be a

genuine one, but we can only have that debate with a government

committed to a referendum. We are the only party committed to that.

What did you think about the road about Nigel Farage's admiration for

Vladimir Putin? `` row about. I am not particularly surprised that one

minute UKIP say one thing, the next moment another, that is their

history. One minute singly should not have any more immigration, then

as king for some immigration from Syria. One minute, they are against

benefit reform, the next in favour of it. They do not know whether they

are asked or `` Arthur or Martha. A lot of these events you judge by

impressions. One thing that struck me in the abdomen is the UKIP people

look more `` looked more satisfied. Nick Clegg's team looked more

defensive. Let us get some reaction from the Labour Party. Developer

Stuart, I `` Gisela Stuart, what is your take? Nigel Farage seem to be

more effective. Nick Clegg, when he called Nigel Farage a taxpayer

funded politician, they were all playing fast and loose with figures,

which you would not be able to do in any other context. But both parties

emerging as winners. If it had not been for these debates, neither

would get that media exposure. Do you think your man, Ed Miliband,

should have taken part? I can see why he didn't and by David Cameron

didn't take part. But do you think you should have? It would have been

better with all four, but it is the first European election in 20 years

when we talk about the subject of Europe, and it must be the start of

a much wider and focused debate. The people were the winners tonight. Is

there a momentum building up behind Nigel Farage? What is this a flash

in the pan? Do you sense something is happening out there? Something is

happening. It is an ease with the whole political establishment. We do

not know whether we will have a major change in votes in the

European election. `` it is an unease. We have gone slightly beyond

just saying this is a problem for the Tories. It is a problem for all

the political parties. Nigel Farage seem to be almost making a Labour

Party appeal, talking about big business, wealthy landowners, the

white working class, that was a pitch into Labour Party territory?

It is and about 12% of the vote going to UKIP are Tory voters, and

after that it is all of the parties. His message is so

seductive, simple and clear and the other parties have to engage with it

in a very factually `based weight, which at the moment they are still

not doing. There was one moment when Nick Clegg, when Nigel Farage talked

about Manchester, Nick Clegg said Greater Manchester, picked out a

figure of 2.1 million population, but Manchester is half a million,

Greater Manchester 2.7 million, so it can be fantasyland. It did not

sit with Nick Clegg. Thank you. Jane, I cut have a raw deal, saying

to come here and I would buy her a drink and we would interview hard,

but there is no one here to buy a drink from! It is an outrage! Thank

you very much. Someone should be told. A disgrace, isn't it! Thank

you very much, Norman Smith, the spin bar that is not a bar. When a

bar not a bar? Thank you very much. Lots of reaction on social media.

All these things play out so swiftly on social media, don't they?

Ann`Marie is back with us. She is back from BBC trending. She has been

monitoring this. You have looked at the fist debate, now the second

debate. What was out there? Was trending, what were the key issues?

The hashtag Europe debate. You could see this spike of conversation just

sore as the de took place. During the debate itself there were 38,000

tweets using this hashtag. Well over 55,000 tweets throughout the course

of today. I'm sure we will see that continue on as people discuss the

subject. It was interesting. I wanted to look at the number of

compensation mentions that Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg got. In the

last debate, Farage got more mentions on Twitter. It's not an

indicator of whether he won, it's an indicator of whether what he said

got people talking online. Farage got 8,000 mentions during the

debate, Clegg got 6,000. A smaller gap than the previous debate. It

looked like Clegg was getting more people talking this time round.

Which is interesting, I thought. Yes. Talking about him, but I guess

that doesn't necessarily tell us whether it was good or bad? Exactly.

By the nature of social media. A lot of the discussion and commentary

online is polarised, especially with something like this where it is a

debate and getting people from all ports of the spectrum and

demographics. What about jolly stuff snl we made the point that lots of

people discuss this seriously on Twitter and want to know what people

think about migration and so on, some people have fun? Of course.

There are funny pictures doing the rounds. One of the high points, you

could say, on Twitter was when David Dimbleby made the remark, "Nick

Farage" instead of Nigel Farage. Lots of people were tweeting about

this. David Dimbleby were trending and Nick Farage trending. If you

look at the global map. You can see there is a high concentration of

people using the hashtag Europe debate in the UK, naturally. If you

look across Europe, it's the cities in Europe, the capital cities around

Europe, that are using it and parts of the US as well, which was

reflective of the debate, the last debate LBC. It's interesting that

the US is interested in what is happening here too. I'm struck by

that. I'm quite surprised by it. I don't know, it could be a lot of

ex`pats living in the States, for example? It's inner cities where

people have broadband access and smartphone penetration is really

high. That will have... That will be a contributing factor too. Yes, very

interesting. How can people take part in a debate longer term? By

definition social media is about instant gut reaction. There is a

place for that. We need proper considered analysis as the days go

by and proper reflection. How can people engage in that? The BBC has

been covering it comprehensively on all of its social platforms. If you

look at the bbc.co.uk/politics. You can have a look at the BBC Have Your

Say and they can email and text in. They can share their views. We can

get a sense of what our audience actually thinks. Very much for now.

Lots of ways to get in touch. There will be more discussion about that

tonight, I suspect Matthew and I will carry on talking about it

tomorrow on BBC News as well. Before I close for this half`hour, just

worth I think really reminding you of the latest polling on all of

this. Two pretty swift polls, proper opinion polls carried out here

tonight. The Guardian/ICM, people were asked ` who performed best?

Nigel Farage well ahead, 69%, versus Nick Clegg on 31%. That is the

Guardian poll. The YouGov poll which came out very quickly after the end

of the debate. Similar for Nigel Farage, just one point below. 36%

for Nigel Farage, 68% for Nigel Farage and 37% for Nick Clegg. A

third of Liberal Democrats felt that Nigel Farage had won. Lots more

analysis of all those facts and figures to come, I'm quite sure.

From outside Broadcasting House I will hand you back to Clive. Jane,

many thanks for that. Jane Hill there. In other news. Millions of

elderly people and those with health problems have been advised to avoid

heavy