Kevin Bridges: What's the Story? Referendum Special

This programme contains some strong language

On Thursday September the 18th, the people of Scotland will be asked

the most important question in its history.

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Voters will be given an option of a yes or a no. Like a lot of people,

I've got some questions to ask before placing my cross

on the ballot paper, so I thought I would head out and speak to

loads of different people and hear from both sides of the debate.

I'm Kevin Bridges

and this is What's The Story? Referendum Special.

For over 300 years, Scotland has been part of Great Britain

and on more than a few occasions has the subject of independence

been a huge talking point.

I could go into more historical detail there but I won't.

However, in 1997 there was a referendum on Scottish devolution

that resulted in a devolved parliament being established

two years later, in 1999.

And then, in 2004, here in the capital city of Edinburgh,

a brand-new, beautiful parliament building was erected.

Now, we're in 2014 with a referendum to see if the people of Scotland

want to go independent.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

A referendum on Scottish independence.

I've got a backdrop there. "Yes. No. No. Yes."

Somebody decided that should be the backdrop.

We never had an "S" we just used a "5" there.

Alex Salmond's registration plate.

It's a historical time. We've got the Yes campaign.

We've got the Better Together campaign. And we don't have

the "Fuck it, it'll be a good laugh" campaign.

There's a lot of negatives. I think it could be a laugh,

the idea of Scotland being a proper foreign country.

And we could just start messing about with the time zones

and stuff like that.

9am every Friday, the clocks go forward for eight hours.

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

Who could stop us? It's our country.

9pm, Sunday night, they go back for eight hours.

Just when your hangover's getting away, you've ate your Chinese,

eight hours, back to one in the afternoon.

My mission on this show is simple.

I want to gather as many opinions as I can,

and opinions that matter to me, so that I can come to my own decision

about whether Scotland should become an independent country.

First stop, well, for me, it's always my mum and dad.

I staged a revolution of my own a while back when I moved out

of the parental home to go it alone. So I went to meet my mum and dad

at a cafe in my native Clydebank where I grew up,

to see how they felt my independence had gone and, of course, to gauge

their thoughts on the slightly more pressing issue of Scotland's future.

I went independent from yous, so to speak, in 2011,

when I moved out of the family home.

I'll give you that credit of being fully independent

when you can work that washing machine.

-Right, so I've got devolution then.

-Aye.

-Aye.

-I would say so.

So have you read the White Paper?

No.

Tell Kevin about that, the White Paper.

Kevin, right, I honestly thought it was just a bit of A4 paper.

It's deceptive. It's called the White Paper.

It was like the Argos catalogue. It's thick,

how thick it was, and I'm like that to your dad,

"That's the White Paper."

I've read it cover to cover. I've also read the Gaelic version.

Did you ever think you would see a referendum on Scottish independence

in your lifetime?

-No.

-No, to be truthful, no.

Do you talk about it much?

Well, obviously now it's on everybody's lips, because

even people that normally wouldn't talk about politics or whatever,

you know, they're all having their say

-because I suppose it affects everybody, you know?

-Yep.

-In the whole of Scotland.

-Especially in the Yes campaign.

A lot of their support is coming via online outlets and media

rather than the mainstream. Where are you getting your info from?

Your facts, and where are you doing your reading?

-Probably off you and John and things I read in the paper.

-Right.

-But that's about it.

-So you feel as if you don't know enough.

Well, I know enough that on this occasion

-I would definitely be influenced by you and John.

-OK.

Because yous are the future. Yous are the younger.

But then they're saying that younger people

are influenced by their parents, so it's a stand-off.

-Somebody needs to make a decision, Paddy.

-Well...

-It's me or you.

It's all in the melting pot, isn't it?

You're waiting to see how I vote and I'm waiting to see how you vote.

Have we got any young people in? Give me a cheer if you're...

CHEERING

if...you're under 18. Yes, how old, how old are you?

MAN MUTTERS

It's not that difficult a question, sir.

You're no' trying to buy bevvy here. Just answer.

Try and remember a date of... How old are you?

20? 22. Is that young in Scotland?

Have you checked the life expectancy figures?

Have we got any 16-year-olds in?

Yes. Well, I don't mean to sound a bit fucking creepy there.

-AUSTRALIAN ACCENT:

-"Can you tell what it is yet?"

I don't mean to sound like that!

LAUGHTER

I just realised,

when you hear yourself shouting "Have we got any 16-year-olds in?"

Ah, it's going to be a record number of spoilt ballot papers

if they're letting 16-year-olds vote.

People going through them - "Nicola Sturgeon loves the boabie."

"We'll put that as a no. I'll call that a no."

See the likes of the 16-year-olds that are getting the vote,

and there's a lot of people saying

"Oh, I think it's ridiculous giving a 16-year-old the vote."

Well, I don't because there'll be 16-year-olds that couldn't

have cared less anyway, and the ones that could care,

they'll take an interest and they'll be influenced by, you know,

what their parents are saying, what their teachers are saying.

You think it's good that it'll create young people

-with a social conscience?

-Definitely.

-Regardless of what happens, that's been a positive?

-Yep, definitely.

Do you think I was responsible enough to make a vote at 16?

Well, I would take you out of the picture all together.

I was on the school council. I got voted in.

-And your maw got sent for.

-And I got...

You had to go for a meeting at the school

-cos I brought the meeting into disrepute.

-Yes, exactly.

Maybe I was a bit immature but... other 16-year-olds.

Definitely, I mean, I know loads of 16-year-olds

that would be mature enough to make, you know, good decisions.

In this referendum campaign, when the Scottish people have been told

"This won't be allowed to happen, you won't be allowed this,"

-that's almost spiked an upsurge or a resistance.

-Yes, of course.

For example, when we're told that an independent Scotland

would not be allowed to enter into a currency union

with the rest of the UK, what do you say back to that?

I would drop the D from the pound, right, and call it the poun',

and I would move our financial centre to Stirling.

So it's the poun' Stirling.

Poun Stirling. Cause total confusion in the global markets.

What a reply. Where was Alex Salmond on that reply?

Aye, well, I'll probably get a phone call from him once he sees the show.

People have got their concerns, obviously the economic argument.

An independent Scotland will not be allowed to enter

into a currency union with the UK.

We've been told that. We could maybe start our own money.

I was getting fed up with the pound anyway. The sterling.

Who even calls it the pound? It's a quid or a smackeroony.

That could be the currency.

How hard is it to start your own currency? A smackeroony.

That could be it.

Oh, you could be in a recession if your currency's a smackeroony,

but never a depression. It would cheer you up.

"Give them my last five smackeroonies."

You could rack up a crippling debt.

The International Monetary Fund could announce

the independent nation of Scotland

is running at a 200 billion smackeroony deficit.

Just use it as a deflection tactic.

"What was that, mate? 200 billion what?"

"Smackeroonies? Aye, bet you wish you used the smackeroony, eh?

"You'll fucking get your money, mate."

How do you think it's going to go on September the 18th?

My heart says yes. Definite yes.

My head says don't know, maybe.

I firmly believe...

I believe in the people of Scotland that

they want to see more equality.

I'm hopeful for a yes. Judging by the people that I've spoke to.

And Mum?

I think it will be a no, judging on it by the people I've spoke to.

So yous are no longer speaking to the same people. Swingers!

Are you maybe just ignoring the people that are saying no?

That's a possibility, Kevin.

I don't think Dad gives them a chance to get a word in sideways.

Mum, Dad, thanks, as always, for being there

when I've needed some information, needed some guidance.

-You're very welcome, Kevin.

-Aye.

By speaking to my mum and dad, I'd wanted to get a sense

of how their generation felt about independence.

But something my mum said really stuck in my head.

The people who'll be affected by this vote in the longer term

belong to another age group entirely.

One of the big factors in this referendum

is that people as young as 16 years old

will be allowed to vote for the very first time.

I'm here in Edinburgh, the seat of Scotland's devolved government,

to meet some of the members of the Scottish Youth Parliament.

All right?

Good afternoon.

The Scottish Youth Parliament.

Thanks for having me here, erm, keeping me a seat as well.

That's appreciated.

So everybody here's a member of the Scot... MSYP, is that right? Yep.

Sounds like a gang, doesn't it? "MSYP, ya bas."

Do you ever go and graffiti that anywhere? No? OK.

The reason we're speaking is, obviously it's the big year of

-the referendum and are young people engaged?

-Absolutely.

The young people are just so excited about the opportunity to participate,

to engage in what is going to be one of the most important votes

in their lives. And it's really good to see big groups of young people

having these sorts of mature, interesting discussions.

Do you think their parents will influence a lot of how they vote,

or do you think at 16 people are going to make their own choice?

Some of the work that we're trying to do is encouraging young people

to go out there and find their own kind of decision,

and make their own decision and go out and find the information

and make an informed decision on what they think is right,

rather than picking up on what their friends or parents are saying.

-Yep.

-It's their vote, therefore it should be what they think is right.

So you think most 16-year-olds are going to vote, they're going to take

this opportunity? Do you think there's going to be a high turnout

-in terms of the youth?

-We definitely hope so because a lot of our work

involves making sure that young people are taking the opportunities

that are presented to them. So it's not something they should turn down.

OK. Do you think people are maybe affected by social media?

By, like, blog sites and Facebook and Twitter.

Is that playing a big part in where people are obtaining their facts

and figures, and stuff they can base a decision on?

Because the social media's a personal side, it's made the debate

more accessible. The young people can directly tweet the First Minister

or whoever and they can get a reply straightaway.

I can only picture myself as a 16-year-old.

I don't know if I was mature enough.

I was elected onto the school council but only because people knew

it would be a bit of a laugh and I suggested things like

complementary mints in the toilets

and having a guy giving out aftershave.

That's how serious I took my duties. What other factors are young people

considering before they vote, from your findings?

We do have the big ones like employment, but what's great about

the referendum is there's so much coverage of it, the young people

are getting to know more about politics, so I've had people

about 13 year old talking to me about what will defence be like?

Will Scotland have its own army?

What will it be like in the United Kingdom? So it's been really great

for getting people interested in politics and wanting to find out

more about things that affect them, like the NHS.

And is there a reason this has been the first ever referendum

where people as young as yourself, Wing, are allowed to vote?

-Why do you think that is?

-We're allowed to have children

at this age. We're allowed to leave school. Why can't we vote?

Why can't we have a say in what's our future plans of this country?

Why? I just don't understand. I mean, it's just logic. It's...

Yep, I totally agree.

APPLAUSE

As soon as you tell 16-year-olds they can do something legally,

the novelty's gone. They no longer want to do it.

I preferred back in the day when you couldn't vote at 16.

Remember that? Under-age voting. They were the days.

When you used to hang out outside the polling station.

Waiting for an old guy, ask him if he'll go in and vote for you.

The memories.

I would go, "Excuse me, mate, any chance you could vote for us?"

Old guy's looking about kind of shifty.

"All right, mate, what you after?" Getting home to your mum and dad

and they're going, "You've been fucking voting."

"Don't lie to me, Kevin, you've been voting!

"If I find out and you're not telling me now

"I'll be even angrier!"

"Honestly, Dad, I've not been voting."

"You're going to end up like your cousin Fraser, a prick.

"It's a slippery slope, this politics."

Do you find that the people involved in your side of the campaign,

are they aware how crucial it is?

I think the onus is on both sides of the campaign

to engage with young people.

I think that they have been and I think that we, as a youth parliament,

have been creating platforms for that to happen,

other organisations across the country.

I think that there's more that both campaigns can do

to engage and inspire young people.

And do you notice any trends in how young people are voting?

Is it favouring a particular side? You don't need to say which side,

I don't want you getting sacked from your role.

I think it's really hard

to look at the polls, cos they all say a different thing.

I think the most important poll's on the 18th September.

What an answer.

So you don't think either side is going to benefit

from having 16-year-olds vote?

16-year-olds - that's the people

who are going to benefit for having the vote.

I think for the first time ever, they're going to be inspired

and empowered to have that debate, decision and opportunity,

and I'm sure that young people, having used it for the first time,

will say, "I want that again. I want to have that power,"

and I'm confident that we'll get that in the near future.

I think it's a good message you're putting across,

that 16-year-olds should see how historical

and how big an opportunity it is to get there and have your voice heard.

Thanks for talking to me.

-ALL: Thank you.

-It's been a pleasure.

We better take these seats back before the jannie goes mental.

The youngsters of the Scottish Youth Parliament

seemed to have mastered the politician's trick

of answering a question without actually answering a question.

However, it was great to see them so engaged.

Since I was in Edinburgh,

the home of Britain's biggest comedy festival,

I felt it was time for some more referendum-based patter.

They're having an independence referendum up here. Everybody...

Everybody's talking about it.

Whatever happens in September, I reckon the whole...

the whole country could go and re-sit their higher modern studies.

There's people who are clued up.

We should have it every four years. Just keep having referendums.

That's what will get Scottish people through a World Cup.

Just a referendum. Something to talk about.

And then the year England win it, that's when we go independent.

That's the way. That's the fuel.

Now, that's when you see debates -

six in the morning, in house parties.

Guys lighting a fag off a toaster, giving their tuppence-worth.

"See if we vote no, mate, we're like...

"we're like Rihanna getting back with Chris Brown, mate.

"That's us."

That's the kind of stuff Alex Salmond needs to say

to really capture the mood in the nation on that leadership debate.

Just start calling them a shitebag and stuff.

"Oh, but the economic risks."

-"What about them?"

-HE IMITATES CHICKEN

"Shitebag!"

That's what he needs.

It will win the people's hearts if he'd done that.

-Just...

-HE IMITATES CHICKEN

Maybe throw him a wee dummy punch

just to make them flinch on the telly.

"Nae currency union, ya bam!"

What mattered to me now

was to hear from quite a different collection of voices,

so I headed back west.

Perhaps nowhere symbolises the decline of heavy industry

and the social and economic impact

than the historic ship-building area of Govan.

A local radio station kindly invited me to take part

in a live phone-in to hear what their listeners

had to say about it all.

Heather, thanks a lot for having me in to Sunny Govan.

-Sunny G, should I say?

-Sunny G.

-That's what the kids are calling it.

-Yep.

-I've raised some profile there.

We've got four people standing outside with camera phones so...

Hope you enjoy your morning with us.

Thank a lot. Thanks again for having us.

-Take care.

-Cheers, Heather.

OK, Glasgow city,

it gives me great pleasure to bring to the studio

the one and only Kevin Bridges. Yas!

So, Kevin, what you been up to?

We're filming a documentary. I've went all serious.

-It's about the Scottish independence referendum.

-Right.

We thought we'd come to Sunny Govan to hear your listeners,

what they reckon - yes, no, undecided, whatever.

Tony's on the phone. How are you doing, Tony?

I've got an opinion I'd like to express

that I think it would be the best thing ever for Scotland,

because the things that we've got are under threat -

I think we will lose our free prescriptions,

I think we will lose funding

and I think we will be much worse off should there be a no vote.

-OK. That's excellent.

-Thank you very, very much for that.

Appreciate your points.

Debbie, you're through to Kevin.

I'm going to vote no.

The only reason - I don't think we're prepared for it yet.

I think we should maybe wait and come back in another five year.

That's my view. I just say no and that's it.

So we're going to have a referendum in 2019?

-Just for Debbie.

-Just for Debbie.

-Why not?

-So what would need to happen in the next five years?

I don't know.

That's it, see - there's too many people,

too many politicians and stuff just tell lies and tell you things

just so they can get votes.

So I don't think you can really trust anybody at the moment.

There is a lack of trust.

People are finding it hard to relate to any mainstream politicians.

I don't think we can trust a lot of people at the moment,

so that's why I'm voting no at the moment.

I think it comes back to maybe the fear.

Yeah, of course.

That's a future for a lot of kids growing up and stuff.

I don't want them to end up worse off than what we are at the moment.

-OK.

-But anyway, I'm heading to the Wickerman Festival.

-You have a belter.

-Enjoy, Debbie.

-The weather's going to be brilliant.

-Leaving in a couple of hours' time.

-We'll speak to you again in five years.

-Cheers.

It will take Debbie five years to recover from Wickerman.

Thanks very much for that, Debbie.

Excellent. Kevin Bridges, it's been a pleasure. See you soon.

I'd come to Govan and the radio phone-in

to hear just what a range of opinions are out there,

and I discovered there are plenty.

Hosting a live radio phone-in can be a risky affair,

but it seemed to pass without incident.

A long journey was in order to ponder over

some of the opinions that I heard,

so I chose to head north

for a chance to hook up with a famous English musician

who has very strong views on Scottish independence.

This trip has taken me all over Scotland

and today I'm in Inverness, the Highland capital,

but not to talk to a Scot.

Instead, I'm here to talk to one of the most iconic figures

in British music and politics, Billy Bragg.

Billy Bragg, thanks first of all for speaking to us.

You've been quite vocal about your opinions on Scotland leaving the UK

and you're very pro-Scottish independence.

People will find it strange why somebody who can't vote

is so passionate about it.

Because it has ramifications for all of us

-in the United Kingdom, I think, you know?

-Yep.

And it's better to look at the positive possibilities

rather than bemoan the fact that, you know, it will be different.

It will be... Change worries everybody.

Change is always for people to be concerned about,

but I think there's a lot of positives in this for all of us.

I've got no vote, you know?

I'm observing this from over the border,

but I do think that we in England should be discussing it,

should be talking about it, should be looking at the ramifications of it,

if only to understand

what a modern, confident, post-imperial country looks like.

People have presented that as a negative,

that if Scotland goes, it paves the way to divide the rest of the UK,

so you're the first person I've heard who's actually seen that as...

How do you mean "divide the rest of the UK"?

I think a looser federation and better devolution,

the opportunity to open the whole thing up

and sort of get the hood up on the British constitution

and re-jig a few things so that everybody's vote counts

is something we desperately need

and the only real chance we're going to get

in England and Wales and Northern Ireland

is if you guys decide to become independent.

So see beyond the Scotland, England, "Oh, they're leaving

"because they don't like us and..."

-Yeah.

-It almost puts people down and makes them feel like xenophobes

just because they want a bit of self-determination.

I don't see any anti-Englishness

in the Scottish referendum debate whatsoever, you know?

I don't think that it's a huff,

I don't think it's a rejection of the United Kingdom.

I think it's a better way of doing things.

The Scots have found that they can organise this better.

Any Welsh in?

Nope? Somebody said no. You've already asked.

You've done that question in the foyer?

Good to see somebody taking a census

before taking their seat.

Have we got...

Have we got any English in?

-Newcastle.

-Newcastle? Right on the front line.

That's the way it's going to be if we go ind...

Corby - that'll be like Gibraltar.

How do you feel about the independence referendum?

I think we should get our own independence.

You think Newcastle should go independent as well?

WHOOPING AND APPLAUSE

They're just taking a big saw to the UK.

So to hear you coming on and putting such an

informative argument forward,

that's when celebrities should get involved.

I saw the letter, the 200 celebrities...

It's amazing that there could be a political petition that has both

George Galloway and Sir Bruce Forsyth.

How often do those two get together

and what do they talk about, politically?

But I was really, really disappointed by it,

but most of all I was disappointed by their reason.

Why did they want Scotland to stay within the UK?

For Auld Lang Syne. You've always been around.

They've absolutely no grasp about the possibilities of

self-determination and the importance of accountability.

They don't know what it's like to keep voting for one

particular political party and getting stuck with the other one.

Of course, if Scotland becomes independent there will be

-unforeseen problems.

-But...

Don't walk into it expecting it's just, you're going to wake up one

morning and it's going to be like, you know, sort of Bella Caledonia.

So there's no shame in 50 years' time to have a referendum.

"Please take us back. Sorry about all that."

Who knows, in 50 years' time,

we, you know, England might be saying, "Can we, can we come

"and use the tartan pound?" or whatever you call it.

This debate shows that there's a different side to Scotland.

A forward-looking side to Scotland that, you know,

instead of being the old enemy we might become the new mate.

So Scotland could be the trend-setters, almost, for this.

Well, I think Scotland always have been.

The thing about Scotland is because there's five million of you

you've got a big enough tax base.

It's really only Scotland who's big enough to stand up on its own

to England and say, "You know what?

"This has been really, really brilliant,

"but I think I've got to, I think I'm going to move out."

-Billy, it's been a pleasure talking to you.

-See you, mate.

-Good luck with the gig tonight.

-Thanks, it will be fine.

Any other English in?

Yep, how are you feeling about it?

Would you be sad to see Scotland go, sir?

You couldn't give a fuck.

And how's that supposed to make us feel?

If you're undecided I reckon an English referendum

on Scottish independence first would help you make a decision.

If you want us to go, we're staying.

They want us to stay, we're offski.

Well, Billy put a lot of things into perspective there

and helped me to look at certain issues afresh.

That was going to come in handy, as next on my to-do list was to

investigate one of the longest-running issues

of the independence debate.

Oil.

And as luck would have it, a short trip from seeing Billy in Inverness

took me up to Nigg, on the Cromarty Firth, where some of the huge rigs

that pump oil and gas from under the North Sea get repaired.

I got together a group of the workers here to get

their take on this massive talking point.

How you getting on? You all right?

Thanks for coming out on this scorcher. Good to meet yous.

How you getting on, man? You all right?

I'd ask your names but then I'd feel like a supply teacher

trying to remember them.

You've only get one name to remember. I've got four, etc.

We're obviously talking about the Scottish independence referendum.

The oil has been a major talking point.

One of the main arguments for Scottish independence

is that if we went independent, the overwhelming majority of the

UK's oil and gas revenue would be Scottish and we'd be loaded.

Is that right?

Well, it is going to be, the majority of the oil's is going to be

in Scottish waters, that's for sure.

We're going to benefit off it, greatly.

This generation, the next generation, and generations to come.

But not just with the direct financial gains we'll get

immediately, but for what we can put away and put aside to help

future generations when we're gone and the oil's gone.

-The oil's going to finish eventually.

-When?

-Well, nobody can say when.

It's declining, though, is that right?

It's been declining since they discovered it in the '70s.

"It's only going to last us ten years, so don't get excited,"

-they said.

-The oil is obviously very important to Scotland.

I've heard a lot of people talk about it like it's a cherry on top

of what we've got, but if we do become independent we're obviously

going to have a huge deficit so it's going to be more than a cherry on

top, cos we need that to service the debt, and a lot of people

use Norway as an example but it was set up properly to start with.

We're trying to...

How do you mean set up properly? What was the difference?

Norway ring-fenced theirs right from the very start.

They made sure that they got everything right.

Everything that went in or came out of the Norwegian sector,

if they were putting rigs into the North Sea

and into the Norwegian sector, it had to be built in Norway.

We never went that way, we just went,

"It's going to be a ten-year fix.

"Let's get in and get out and that will be us finished."

It's never too late to start, you know?

We could then start planning for the future, but have a welfare system

that is to the benefit of people rather than punishing people.

We could build schools and hospitals

and have the things that we really want to have in a fair society.

It's all right saying that, but who do we give the money to?

I mean, we've seen it first-hand.

The trams in Edinburgh, the Scottish Parliament.

You know, £40 million it starts off,

it ends up at 400 million.

We're going to make more money and give it to idiots to spend.

Part of the problem, no matter whether we're yes or we're no

is most of these politicians couldn't run a bath

-never mind a country.

-Well, I agree there.

So whether we're independent or not, you're still going to have

ten dozen muppets sitting in Edinburgh trying to run the country.

Right, but would you not rather have a Scotsman making the decision

for people in Scotland rather than a guy from London

who flies up here once...

Your own idiots spending the money, is basically what you're saying.

To be fair, if we're going independent this is the other

argument I have against voting yes, and I've not decided what I'm going

to do, is if I go independent I want all my own stuff, you know?

I want my own toys, I want my own money. I want...

But that's where the negotiation comes in.

We've got an 18-month negotiation period where we'll get to start

sitting down, like adults, and they start talking about aliens

and the left-hand side driving on the roads, right?

And we're going to get these things ironed out.

So, Graeme, is it something that's come up at work?

Do people talk about this on the rigs and...?

Yes, my boss is a yes man.

I hear a lot of his side

and the family at home who are leaning towards voting no.

I'm hearing a lot from their side.

I need to wait my while before I know what I'm doing.

You're looking for an answer.

Every vote counts so I'm looking for an answer.

OK. You're obviously quite passionate about voting no.

The opposite for you, Drew. Can you see anywhere he's coming from?

Can you see anywhere he's coming from?

Of course I can see the benefits.

I understand the arguments.

It's just...

it's not going to change my mind.

Right, so you just think this is it?

Aye, yeah, I think where I am is where I'm going to be.

You two need to go for a beer. Cool it off.

Thanks for your time and good luck back off shore.

Keep drilling that oil.

LAUGHTER

Alex Salmond, he is... People are finding it difficult to see past

it's a decision between two guys.

Alex Salmond and David Cameron,

and they're both pretty difficult to like.

They're difficult to warm to.

Alex Salmond, he looks as if there's something else behind it.

He looks as if maybe he got a knock-back

off an English girl on holiday.

LAUGHTER

When he was 15, and she broke his heart

and that's what's fuelled this entire campaign.

The referendum's on a Thursday.

That will be a horrible weekend for him if that's a no vote.

He'll get spotted somewhere that Sunday night in Edinburgh,

walking through with his shirt ripped, fucking steaming.

Booting wing mirrors off cars.

Claudia!

You fucking cow!

You got what you wanted.

At least Alex Salmond looks like shite.

I will say that for him. At least he looks terrible.

David Cameron, he looks a bit fresh,

for the amount he must have on his mind, if you're cutting

the benefits of the poor and the taxes of the rich as easy as that.

He doesn't look as if he's...

He sleeps like a baby, that guy.

His big fresh, steam-room face.

He doesn't have dreams that he's getting chased

and he cannae run and he's...

he's shouting for help and his teeth are flying out.

Waking his wife up, going, "Argh!"

That's it, my surname's Cameron. That's what he said.

I like his speeches, when he goes, "Scotland, I love Scotland.

"You put the great in Great Britain. My surname's Cameron..."

You can't just recklessly flaunt your surname like that...

and not expect the inevitable interrogation.

"Sorry, Prime Minister, you said your surname's Cameron there.

"Do you know Ritchie Cameron?

"Stevie Cameron? Sandra Cameron's boy?

"No, no, sorry, mate. I just...

"Anyway, continue.

"Eh, Cammy boy, eh, surname's Cameron.

"The Camzer, the Camzareto."

I definitely felt it was worthwhile speaking to the oil workers there

and interesting that they were split down the middle.

It's becoming easier to see why there's still a huge group

of voters who are still undecided.

To reflect on what I'd learned so far,

I thought it was time for an exotic foreign trip

to Corby in the Midlands.

You might not know it, but Corby is known as Little Scotland,

thanks to the historical migration of workers from north

of the border to the steelworks here.

They recently held their own mock independence referendum

and the result was a no.

But I came here to see how the Scots down south feel

about the real referendum on the 18th of September.

Corby's known as Little Scotland. Is that right?

That's it, that's right.

By who? The people of Corby?

-Aye, the people of Scotland as well.

-By the whole of Britain, yeah.

You had a referendum on independence.

-It was a resounding no, then.

-Definite.

Was it seen as a bit of fun or was it taken...?

I thought it was going to be seen as a bit of fun till

I got the abuse about it.

-You got abuse?

-I got abuse, yeah.

-How come?

-What I actually said in the paper was

if I lived in Scotland, and I had a vote,

I would probably, after I'd looked at the facts,

vote for independence.

Well, that was it. They were...

-"Go back to Scotland."

-Right.

-Yeah, oh, yeah.

"Not shopping in your shop again." Stuff like that.

-From who?

-From Scots and English so I had both of them on me.

For expressing your opinion?

So does anybody want to buy a butcher's shop?

THEY LAUGH

The problem for me, you know, I'm undecided really,

but I don't, you know, we're not getting a vote,

and I think that's right because we don't live there

and anything that comes out of this is not going to affect us.

Would anybody be considering moving back if Scotland went...?

I would move back tomorrow if I could take Corby

-and put it back in...

-The removal of Corby.

Corby's a unique town.

I mean, we've got Irish, Scots, English, Welsh

and we're all living together in relative harmony.

It is, it's like a big holiday resort. It's just like...

-Everybody gets on.

-Like Benidorm, innit?

-Without the sea.

-I wouldn't go that far.

There's a few Madges about.

Going back to the referendum, my problem is the currency union.

If you're going to go independent and take the country forward,

you'd need to have some sort of economy,

and without a central banking system,

that's going to be hard and that's my worry.

What makes the pound English? Tell me that. I don't know.

-Well, I think that's what Alex Salmond is saying...

-Tell me what...

Well, the Bank of England...

We've got scaremongering.

The tabloids I've seen today had Scotland can lose the royal family.

That's got to be nonsense.

We could get our own royal family.

THEY LAUGH

What's the big questions?

Will Scotland...? Will we keep the royal family as the head of state?

I reckon we could get our own royal family.

Just a royal family that makes some money.

You know, we could have like a lottery. You buy a ticket.

Everybody, the whole nation is entered into a draw

and you can win the chance to be the Scottish royal family.

It'd be great. Just pulling...

It doesn't matter where you're from or your background.

"Here we go, the king is Eddie McCabe from...

"..from 22/4 Seamill View.

"22/4, does that mean the king's living in a flat?

"He fucking won it. There he is."

Royalists outside his flat, looking up,

seeing if they can catch a glimpse of the king.

There he is, 22.

19, 20, 21, 22, his curtains are open.

He's in. He's in.

Oh, no, I heard they went to her maw's caravan for the weekend.

I think Scotland's quite affluent.

And as a part of the UK, it's got a good health system

and a good education system but it's got that being part of the UK.

And I think what we'd have to do down here

is we have to match what Scotland's doing.

The English have to match what Scotland's doing. The poor Welsh.

I mean, they tell you can't get a hip operation in...

or anything in Wales. I know they don't, they need a lot...

Is that true? You cannae get a hip operation in Wales?

-Apparently.

-Is that a fact?

I don't know if it's a fact.

Is that a historical...?

Welcome to Wales.

If you want a hip operation, you've come to the wrong place.

You go to Glasgow. Go to Glasgow.

No' that I need a hip operation but...

You don't need a new hip, Stevie.

But I think, I think they want to take...

The rest of Britain wants to take an example of what Scotland's did.

So you think it would be good for Scotland to go independent

but bad for the rest of the UK?

I don't actually think it would be good for Scotland.

I think the reason they've did that is because they're part of the UK.

And what I'm saying is the UK,

the rest of the UK could learn off of what Scotland's done.

Right, and what about you gentlemen? Do you share that view?

I think you have to suck it and see and give it a go.

You know, it's like you do, don't you?

I've not seen any posters saying...

"Vote yes. Suck it and see."

With your face on it.

You should go to people's doors. "How you doing? Suck it and see."

How do you think it's going to go?

-I don't think it will...

-You don't see it...?

-No.

-No?

-It won't go independent.

OK. What about you?

Yeah, I think it... I think they have to.

In a way, I think, you know, just stand on their own two feet.

I think, it's what you need to do.

I mean, it's like the education thing.

The prescriptions, like, you know,

loads and loads of things like that. It's like...

-There's a bit of equality there?

-There is, yeah.

How do you think...? Do you think it's going to be a no, then?

-Definitely a no.

-Definitely?

-Definitely.

-And you?

-My heart says yeah, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Purely for the fact that Salmond's...

-There's no transparency when it comes to that...

-Yep.

-..currency union

Four empty pint glasses.

Thanks for talking politics there.

Hope that wasn't too heavy. I'll let yous get another round in.

Stevie, cheers for having us in the pub. All right. Cheers.

-Nice one.

-Cheers, Kevin.

-Cheers, mate. Cheers, Stevie.

Anybody else got an opinion on it?

Big guy at the end there, what's your name?

Sipping your water there.

Ian.

Ian. Is there a satellite delay link-up?

What's the English guy's name?

Gary.

Gary. A slight delay. That was faster though.

Do you understand the Scottish accent and stuff?

Gary? We like the English.

It's only small frustrations and it probably comes from ourselves

like the accent, it does get frustrating.

You know, when you travel. I was in a lift before.

This was actually in Australia, so it's not really an English thing.

Cos a Scottish accent...

I was in a lift and a guy...

I had a carton of Ribena.

All right, I don't mind revealing that side of myself on stage.

And the guy felt the need to comment on it

and I almost ended up fighting with the guy.

I was drinking Ribena. I'm not an aggressive person.

It's just small talk that comes difficult

when you've got a Scottish accent.

He commented, he said, "Oh, Ribena."

And I said, "Aye, party time."

You know, like the way you say something

that you would never have said

if you knew you were going to have to repeat it about four times.

He said, "What?" And I said, "Oh, party time."

And he's going, "Patty toime?"

And you start feeling your blood boiling.

"I'm saying party time - with Ribena. A wee joke.

"It's Ribena.

"It's clearly not fucking party time.

"That was my wee small-talk joke. Just smile, mate.

"It's party time!"

Smacking the side of his head with a carton of strawberry Ribena.

The lift opens. Somebody thinks it's blood everywhere.

"Party time."

Speaking to Scots living in England was worth the trip.

Their views seemed just as passionate

as the views of us who have a vote on polling day.

Now, what's the most Scottish event you can think of?

Well, for a lot of people, it's the Highland Games.

And these displays of patriotic pageantry

are still the highlight of the year

in towns and villages across the north of Scotland.

I felt it was essential to drop in to one of these gatherings -

not just to savour the atmosphere,

but to get a feeling for the political mood.

Lonach Highland Gathering is one of the country's most iconic.

Not least for the historic dram stop,

where the Highlanders partake of a glass of whisky

at the grand house of a local businessman,

Dr Richard Marsh, before the games begin.

And I thought the host would be just the person

to help me get closer to a complete collection of views

to help me make up my own mind on independence.

BAGPIPES PLAY

So, Richard, first of all, thanks for having me in your house.

-Your manor.

-Well that's... It's just a house.

-It's really just a house.

-Well, thanks for having us.

You don't sound like the chairman of the Highland Games.

Can I mention that? Where is your accent from?

I'm Scottish. I went to school in Cambridge.

You just sound like an actor we've brought in. The BBC.

An actor? Do you think I could act?

Could I get a job on the stage please?

So do you speak to the guys who are competing in the games

and the pipers about the upcoming independence referendum?

Certainly. We're putting up "No, Thanks" signs, or "Yes" signs,

-depending on our persuasion.

-Yep.

My persuasion is, I'm firmly "No, Thanks"

and there's a developing Anglophobia, which is a bit worrying.

I mean, you know, I was driving to the airport the other day

and there was a big sign that said "End British Rule".

Well, we are all the British.

I mean, from Truro to Thurso, we're all intermixed.

We're all British and my view...

Is that not specifically meaning Westminster?

Well, it does, but in my view, Kevin,

Scotland should be leading the UK, it shouldn't be leaving the UK.

We produce more than our pro-rata share of Prime Minsters, Chancellors,

you name it, government ministers, way above our population percentage.

People say it's a head and heart thing.

Well, yeah...

Heart says, "Freedom!" and "Independence!"

Independence is a lovely word.

Yes is a lovely word.

But when you really apply your head

and think of what it does to Scotland, to separate,

to tear yourself out of the most successful political and social union

for 300 years of it, then you actually - your heart moves.

My heart's... I love Scotland dearly,

and my heart has moved from the sort of Mel Gibson, Braveheart,

freedom, simplistic view

to, I hope, a more sophisticated, if I may say, opinion,

based on the facts.

Well, to most people around the world,

-they would associate Scotland with kilts, bagpipes, whiskies.

-Yes.

People would presume they'd be Yes voters

because of the sort of Braveheart connection and the patriotism.

A good percentage of those Highlanders we met this morning,

and gave 150 drams to,

are No voters because they love Scotland as much as the Yes people.

I love Scotland passionately,

but they've rationalised it, they've thought it through

and they say, "No, it's not good for Scotland."

We're getting more powers promised to us.

We've got the 2012 Scottish Act.

We are the most privileged part of the United Kingdom.

And we want to give it up.

But would that be an argument for Yes, though?

No, because we are rich and wealthy

BECAUSE we're part of the United Kingdom -

not in spite of it, but because of it.

But who's "we"?

We, all of us.

But there's people clearly in different situations.

People in poverty and obviously there's food banks and...

So people are clearly seeing that's a problem.

If you leave - if you're worried about food banks and poverty,

why would...my view, why would you go to a situation

which actually makes us poorer?

My problem is, what are we gaining?

It doesn't make us more Scottish.

Are we more Scottish because we've got a worse deal on the pound,

a worse deal on the Queen, a worse deal on NATO,

a worse deal on Europe? Are we more Scottish because of that?

But is it about being Scottish?

Is it not people wanting control of their own affairs?

But as I said earlier, we should lead the UK,

we shouldn't leave it. It's a wonderful country to live in,

it's got so many benefits BECAUSE we're in the UK.

It would be tragic, tragic, to throw that away

and find ourselves struggling with pounds, with Europe,

with NATO, with the Queen, with everything.

You're voting No, then.

-I'm voting No, sir.

-September 18th.

-Absolutely.

If we vote No, we get more devolution

-and we become proud of ourselves, as we should be.

-OK.

Well, thanks for talking, Richard. Thanks for having us over.

Great pleasure.

-What's your name, Geordie guy?

-Andrew.

-Andrew.

Is there any fuel behind the Newcastle revolution?

Is it just you?

Just you. One guy. Andrew.

Good man. Up there in the royal box.

That's where King Eddie would be sat.

That's where the Scottish royal family would be.

The Scottish Royal Variety Performance. That would be great.

Swedish House Mafia and DJ Tiesto headlining.

Police warning about a dodgy batch of ecstasy circulating.

14 arrests for minor offences

after last Sunday's Scottish Royal Variety Performance.

King Eddie claimed it was a great night,

from what he can remember.

Nobody gives or hears more opinions across the course of a day

than a taxi driver.

I found myself back in Glasgow city centre,

and decided to flag a cab and hear what the mood was like.

The mood, at least, according to the drivers' findings.

-All right, mate?

-Hi, Kevin, how are you doing?

-Not bad.

-Good, good.

I'm not actually going anywhere in particular.

-Oh, right.

-But I've got 20 quid, so, how far will that get me?

-That'll get you all the way, Kevin. All the way, mate.

-All the way.

-What's your name, mate?

-My name's Davy.

-Davy.

-Uh-huh.

-Course it is. That's just a name you get, surely...

-A taxi name.

..when you become a taxi driver.

Davy, Stevie, or Tam.

-Bobby.

-Or Bobby.

Bobby. The boaby - that's different.

-I'm looking for 20 quid's worth of conversation.

-Uh-huh.

Incisive opinion on the upcoming independence referendum.

Oh, aye, right.

Cos you're a taxi driver. This is a mobile polling station.

You're getting everybody's opinion,

and it's only the taxi drivers' polls that I trust.

What's the general consensus?

Is it something that comes up in conversation?

The general consensus is indifference.

I find that people that come from down South here on business

ask more about it. They're very, "No, we want you to stay,

"we don't want you to go," and they're...

Do you think they have their own interests?

I think they're shiting themselves in case we go,

you know what I mean? Just...

It just seems to be going on forever, doesn't it?

So people have become fed up?

Fed up with it, yeah.

With an overload of information, or is there a lack of information?

A lack of information and also a kind of a lack of...

almost who's telling the truth, you know?

Do you think it will be a No vote because of that?

-Because people will...

-I don't know - at the moment

the polls are all saying it's going to be a No vote

and I think if you're a Don't Know

and you're still a Don't Know on the 18th,

you're going to err on the side of No, aren't you?

Do you know, you would like... almost like an independent arbiter.

You know, when somebody comes out with a statement, right -

"We'll be in the euro and we'll stay in the euro."

"No, no, no, yous might not get in the euro.

"Yous might be kicked out of the euro."

You'd like somebody to step in at that point

to say, "Actually, the correct answer is..."

You really don't know who's telling the truth.

Do people need to be made aware that you're...

if you're voting Yes, you're not actually voting for Alex Salmond?

That's the thing, but, Kevin, even for my kind of...

in this wee conversation we're having the now -

at the moment I reckon I don't know.

Erm... I'm a Don't Know, bordering on No at the present,

and it is a totally selfish kind of point of view,

because you're not voting for independence for just yourself.

You're voting for future generations, et cetera.

How do you picture a Scotland, if we did go independent

September 19th, we wake up feeling a bit rough.

"What have we done?

"I don't believe what we done yesterday."

How do you picture it?

Well, you know that if we knock independence back,

we're basically the first country that's going to say No.

The country that shit themselves.

The country that shat it.

-The country that say No.

-Scotland.

Kevin, you've tore the arse out of this 20 quid.

-That's your 20 quid well up, mate.

-Oh, right.

You should have left it at 19, and I could have gave you a tip

-and felt better about it.

-Don't eat yellow snow, there's a tip.

Old taxi driver patter.

-The banter!

-Oh, the banter!

Our foreign country, we could get our own plug sockets.

A big...a big six-pronger. A big...

A big, hideous monstrosity.

A Scottish plug socket.

It doubles up as a violent weapon.

That's how we kick-start the economy.

We sell plug sockets at the airports. International Arrivals -

"You got your plug socket, mate?

"No, that's three prongs. That's an English plug socket. This...

"is a Scottish plug socket!"

"Is it for an electrical appliance or self-defence, sir,

"if you don't mind me asking?"

My taxi fare seemed to have bought me a sense of apathy,

fear and rumours.

To be honest, I've spent 20 quid more wisely in the past.

But what costs a bit more than 20 quid,

as will its proposed replacement, is Trident,

the submarine missile system that is Britain's sole nuclear deterrent.

It's based at Faslane on the Clyde, a short drive from Glasgow.

It's a huge issue in the independence debate.

So another essential stopping point was the peace camp

across from Faslane naval base.

It's been a permanent fixture here in opposition

to nuclear weapons for decades.

I'm here at the Faslane Peace Camp

to talk to the current residents to hear their views

and whether or not they believe that independence for Scotland

will deliver what they've been demanding for the last 32 years.

How yous doing? It's good to be in a peace camp.

What is it like living, living in a peace...

-Pretty peaceful?

-Yeah, I think people come here because they feel

they want to make a change or they want to, you know,

join something that's hopefully going to make a change.

Yep, and what kind of activities, other than just being here...

Would you go across to the base?

Recently what's happened is the convoy,

which brings up the nuclear warheads all the way from Aldermaston,

all on our public roads, I might add, right through Glasgow.

They bring them up to Coulport.

There's a thing called Nukewatch, which again, they are a network

of people all the way up and down the road, and obviously

they watch Aldermaston and Burghfield and they can tell when

the convoys are leaving and then we track them all the way up the road.

So you can just tell by the activities, by looking into the...

You can see the amount of trucks.

I think it's something like 20 or 22 trucks.

Does it frustrate you, the way

peace camps like this would be portrayed in the mainstream media?

People would use words like hippies or....

Oh, most definitely, yeah, of course they're derogatory.

You know, they'll say things that aren't nice,

but the thing is nowadays, we don't get any media coverage whatsoever.

Back in the day, there was a lot more numbers.

The nuclear disarmament movement was much, much bigger, so again,

if you have loads of people, then surely they should notice us.

In terms of the Scottish independence referendum,

the five of you, are you total anarchists, don't recognise any sort

of politics, cock and balls on the ballot paper, or is it a Yes, No...?

All my life I've been an anarchist but I've never voted in the system

-but I'm going to vote this time.

-Yep.

-This independence referendum,

if it offers an opportunity to get rid of them, whether they do or not,

I'll vote for that opportunity.

If Scotland does go independent from the UK,

do you believe the nuclear missiles would be moved?

How long would that take for Faslane...?

It's not just a case of sending a van up and some bubble wrap and...

In my opinion, I don't think we should hand the weapons over.

To be honest, because that would be really irresponsible,

to hand weapons over to somebody that might use them.

I think we should decommission them ourselves.

The whole Trident weapons system itself, we essentially,

we don't own it. We can't deploy it ourselves anyhow.

It's leased, and it's not only leased.

We have to keep on buying into it,

and because they make the changes in the...

I mean, apparently there's a new Trident replacement system

that's already had millions upon millions spent on it,

which tells you something about the British government and...

whether they're going to keep it or not.

I think things like this are an issue

for everybody all over the world,

not just Scottish people or just people that live in this vicinity.

These weapons affect everybody.

Once we get independence there's no guarantee that we're going to

stick with an SNP government.

-To be honest, they become irrelevant...

-Yep.

..come independence, because what do they stand for then?

There would obviously have to be a reshuffle down political lines,

and any deals that were drawn up before independence,

I don't think will be written in stone.

Things can change, opinion can change.

The time scale of how the weapons are removed,

and whether we even remove them at all

and hand them over could all change.

Yep. It's been a pleasure. Visitors are well and truly welcome.

I felt welcome.

Total respect for your commitment to your beliefs

and thanks for letting me come and see what goes on.

-Thank you.

-Thank you for coming.

I was really struck by what the peace camp residents had to say,

and how dedicated they were to the cause of nuclear disarmament.

It was another integral part of my fact-finding journey

and I'm glad to have spent some time with them.

But now, I'm going back to my home town, Clydebank,

where it all started.

Where I met up with my mum and dad at the start of the show,

many miles ago.

As we come full circle, I'm going on a trip down the River Clyde

with my childhood pals, the boys I grew up with.

Every stop has got me thinking that little bit more

but the opinions of your mates, well,

you just have to take them on board before making such a big decision.

When you bring your pals on the telly,

you're a bit nervous cos it's a reflection on yourself.

I think we've turned out pretty well. Are we proud to be Scottish?

You hear it a lot, especially this year, because so much has happened.

Just like in Trainspotting,

you grow up where they've got everything down the road.

But really this is a time to change that. Broaden the horizons.

You're looking for a better country for yourself. Everybody.

Not just one side, or this one ...

regardless of who you are or what you are.

If we go independent, it'll no longer be an accent,

it'll be a language.

Tourists visiting here, they'll just need to learn a bit.

Every group of guys, like stag dos, coming up from England.

There's always a guy who tries to speak a bit of the local lingo.

You know, the "dos cervezas" guy, the "una mesa, para quatro" guy.

That's what will happen.

The guy sits in the front seat of the taxi, talking...

-ENGLISH ACCENT:

-"Trev, ah, you speak Scottish. Talk to him."

"Ask him where's good to go tonight for a few drinks.

-ENGLISH ACCENT:

-"Ah, ah, the boys are wahn-tin' to get oot their nut the night..."

"Where would you recommend for a few swallies, ma man?"

-GLASWEGIAN ACCENT:

-"Ah, you're probably better sticking to Sauchiehall Street.

"Your Scottish is brilliant, pal."

-ENGLISH:

-"Ask him if it's safe.

"Sauchiehall Street. Is that no' a wee bit dodgy?

"Is it no' full of wee bams?

"We don't wahnt to end up getting our jaws took aff."

-ENGLISH:

-"I wonder what Trev's saying. His Scottish is brilliant.

"I wonder what he's saying.

"I wonder if he's taking the piss out of us."

"Sorry aboot these tadgers, mate."

"They've been daeing my heid in aw day."

The driver, dropping them off on Sauchie...

"There you go, pal, that'll be 15 smackeroonies."

How do you think it's going to go?

T, do you think it will be a Yes or a No?

I think... I think it probably will be a Yes,

because I think that it's...

To be honest, I think there's been more Yes coverage up here

than there has been No coverage.

I can only go with what I've seen and I've certainly seen more Yes.

So how do you reckon it's going to go down, Jim?

Generally speaking, I think it's going to be a No,

but pretty much the opposite reasons from Tony

because I don't think there's been enough coverage.

Certainly for myself.

I don't know how other people see it, but I don't.

I think, a lot of younger people,

there's maybe too much information that they don't understand,

partly myself. I don't get a lot of it.

I'm not too interested in politics

until this has been taking place, so...

But this is almost beyond politics.

It's not just a case of picking a party.

And, Danny, how do you think it's going to go?

-I think it'll be a No.

-Any particular reason?

Just judging by opinion polls, again.

I think it might go towards the No.

But that's just with the scaremongering.

Thanks for giving me your views, lads.

Well done for reading up. Some of you have obviously

been smoking the Herald and other broadsheet newspapers.

I never knew we had that in us, but well done, guys.

Well, that's it. I have reached the end of the road.

In my attempts to find out more about the issues, I've hosted a

radio phone-in, I've been on a peace camp, I've spoken to oil workers,

Highlanders, my mum and dad, my pals and the Scottish Youth Parliament.

I've enjoyed speaking to everybody and making this show

has helped me reach a decision and I'm confident

that when I walk in to the polling station on the 18th of September,

I'll be making the right call. Thanks for watching. Goodnight.