Scotland's Future: Generation 2014

to bring the first edition. Now on BBC News ` Scotland's Future,

Generation 2014. Hello and welcome to BBC Scotland

headquarters in Glasgow. In six months time there will be a

referendum on independence. The question to be asked should Scotland

be an independent country. The first time, 16 and 17`year`old will get

the vote. We have 50 of them here. They come from the Generation 2014

project. We also have a group of young people from the BBC News

School report project. They have come armed with question. The Labour

MP Jim Murphy and the SNP MSP Humza Yousaf. First will hear from

politicians. First to Humza Yousaf. Why should we are your weight? First

of all, what a pleasure it is to talk to our future. If it is about

anything, it is about your future. What is not about is how much you

love Scotland or separating a way. It is not about haggis is all

leading flag. This is about how we use the resource, the talent and

human capital asset of this country. To make decisions for ourselves like

any other normal country. Scotland has been a great innovator

throughout history but even to the modern age. Let's make sure of the

next 100 years, all decisions about your are made I nobody else but you.

Jim Murphy, why should people vote with you? This will be your first

ever vote and it will be the most important value ever cast. This

referendum is more significant than any election that has taken place.

For many on here, it will be the first time you have been involved in

a debate such as this. I hope we can set a different tone for some

debates that have taken place. I have watched on television and it

seems to be a contest of who can shout the loudest. It is about

argument and ideas. It is about how we, together, build a Scotland with

more jobs and more prosperity. How we look after the most vulnerable.

In Scotland, it never matters where you are bored. Whether you are born

in a housing scheme or if you are born into relative prosperity. And

whether the power of the United Kingdom can help shape and influence

that world. How we can protect the environment from the dangers of home

changed and how we can use our in front influence to look after some

of the poorer nations. You are the first generation to communicate

instantly with the use of oral sorts of devices. I do not think we should

build a border between ourselves and the rest of the UK. Let's not change

the United Kingdom, let's not break it and leave it. Around the applause

for our two politicians. You have our first question. What will our

relationship we like with the rest of the UK if we go independent? It

took Jim Murphy exactly 30 seconds to say we will be leading the rest

of the UK. That is fear mongering and scaremongering. We are not

looking to leave or take a chainsaw to the border. And never be a part

of the UK. We have 300 years of shared history. That social union is

extraordinarily strong. My wife was born in England. All those jokes

about your father`in`law, I quite like him and he was born in

Scunthorpe. Why should that have any effect?

Family relationships and bonds are not created or divided depending on

when you make political decisions. My greatest friends and allies are

the rest of the United Kingdom. But it is AI don't enjoy the rivalry on

the football field. Not so much the rugby field at the moment! That

rivalry will always exist but that friendship is much deeper. Do we

want to make decisions for ourselves and our own interest. It is not

about that. It is not about putting up borders and barriers. It is about

making decisions for ourselves. They will be our best of friends and

close allies. Those ones of friendship will continue. Do you buy

that? I think it is a good point that you make there is a strong bond

but it would be good to see the other side of things as well. Who

buys what he does that? I agree. If you look at Scandinavia, the

relationship that those countries have is so close. I don't see why

there is a reason that Scotland should not have that same kind of

relationship with the rest of the country's in the UK. Jim Murphy. I

think we would have to make it work, upwardly? Eye and going to

vote to remain in the United Kingdom. If the rest of the United

Kingdom became a foreign country to Scotland, we would make it work. My

argument is that we should not have to. Look at how in common with the

people in these areas. Why break up that family of nations. Impact on

things like currency. What currency would you have in your purse or your

pocket is that Wallaby impact on things the BBC have? Of course we

could make it work. We are remarkable people in a great country

and we would make it work but I don't think we should take that

risk. I do believe we are better together. Who is agreeing with what

Humza Yousaf is saying? Let me get you one. I think it is interesting

that the Better Together campaign says we can't have a pound. It is

not a good asset but there is an asset. To take the debt and not the

pound, that is not fair. Is debt and asset? There is a liability. Humza

Yousaf is saying if we go independent we can get rid of the

debt and help people in poverty. How will we pay that off? Who agrees

with Humza Yousaf? In response to SNP who referred to recent

statistics showing in the of a "yes" vote Scotland would be the 14th

richest country in the world in terms of GDP. How does Mr Murphy

responds the accusation that the Better Together campaign does not

want to leave because it's a "yes" vote did happen, the Westminster

government would have less money. Who wants to argue with Andrew? I

know you are visually impaired. I was just wondering if Scotland is

independent and we can't keep the pound, you are saying that our money

we spend on things we want, I and not sure anybody wanted the money to

be spent on the high`speed railway lines. That makes everybody is

Hearts thing. You cannot deny it, a politician is a politician, whether

they are English, French or Japanese. They will still make the

same mistakes were stopped as because we are independent, Scottish

politicians would make better decisions. Who want to take

responsibility for the trams? Let's get you arguing with each other. My

question is why should we stay because we don't know what will be

cut next. Where we still have the same quality of energy service and

electricity fees? Even if we stay together, we do not know what

services we have so why should we stay? I think it is interesting that

Humza Yousaf is saying look at the facts and figures. The public the ``

big to a different story. They said revenue would go up and deficit

would be decreasing. In actual fact, revenue is going down and the debt

is increasing. I think it is a strange claim to make you look at

the facts and figures when we are seeing no parity in these figures.

The people are indeed looking at. Let me ask you, who he is confused

by the financial message you get all the time. The numbers? Who is

confused? That is interesting. Nobody really understands the

numbers. You are about to make a comment? You are talking about

working and jobs earlier. Scotland is already in a bad place and

employment wise. What would happen on the unemployment front if we went

independent? Let me put two questions to both of you. One is how

do we get more people in work was mapped the second one is if at the

moment we are overspending by 12 billion every year, how do you

change that? Jim Murphy. We have got to continue to try and find new ways

to make things. Biotechnology or these high end engineering

innovations that we have celebrated throughout our history. We have to

do more of that stop utterly what we can't do and this is something Humza

Yousaf will agree with. We cannot be `` complete with some of the

developing economies. It does not have success with us. We cannot

mass`produce load cost items. When I look at the facts and figures,

economic and using. Think about it yourself, we have 24 billion barrels

of oil. We have 25% of Europe's wind energy potential based here in

Scotland. We have got from days gone by, a nation of innovators and

inventors. Even today, the first living organism was cloned here in

Scotland. We invented and that although five. We have got all these

great thing is that we agree on. Scotland could survive. The question

is this: we are in Glasgow but across other parts of Scotland, we

asking some of the worst deprivation and poverty we have seen for a

generation. Whether it is people at food banks, can you believe it? Is

the 21st century in Scotland. We are having to give food to people here.

You have hundreds and thousands of children in poverty. Disabled people

are being threatened with the age tax. How do we deal with that? We

are in a position to pay off the debt. But then money on what is

important to us. Let's create a fairer society. Our next question is

to do with a question from a BBC School report. Let me come to you.

Your question is very much about the future. We make if we become an

independent country, or happen to university tuition fees? Is that

important? Hands up. Everybody is nodding pulled up.

We got rid of the back door or Division 3. The first minister said

without a single shadow of doubt that before we bring back tuition

fees... So long as we are in power they will never be tuition fees.

Politics, if it is about one thing, it is about priorities. Where you

choose to spend your money. Whether you choose to spend it? That is why

we criticise the UK government for spending on nuclear weapons. Instead

of that, spending on education. We have a commitment and absolutely,

education would continue to be free. The difficulty I have with this

whole argument and debate, you are quite right to ask me for clarity.

But, you must also asked the opposition, if you vote no, what

will happen? So far we have managed to hear something about the income

tax will be different but nothing on education. Jim Murphy voted to

increase the tuition fee to bring a half thousand. He increased tuition

fees I would be interesting to know because his argument is, everything

will be OK because Labour will get back in power. Would you vote to

bring back tuition fees? My argument today is not that you vote no and

then everything will be perfect. That is the Yes campaign argument.

There are tough times ahead and we should not pretend otherwise. The

run off a lot of people still struggling to make ends meet and

many of them will suffer the worst effects of independence. On tuition,

the labour party fought the last campaign on tuition fees.

(CROSSTALK) The question is how you can afford

tuition. No one country with all of the consequences of breaking up, the

cost of embassies and so on, how will you afford to have all of the

things that you are being promised and the currency gets to be decided?

The SNP have to be more open about what they can afford rather than

just promising everything. You're making a promise and you are saying

that there will be no tuition fees, but what I am asking is where are

your facts and figures to prove that you can paper this? If we are going

to take the debt with us, we will have to pay for a lot more and we

were to pay for a lot more stuff on our own. Well the money come from?

Who would support Humza here? He is absolutely right. The promise that

we will have free tuition, I believe that. I do not think that if we go

independent that will make a massive difference to the opinion of

tuition. Who would like to argue? He is asking how would we afford it,

but surely ?350 billion for Trident, we should be able to say that and

afford tuition. Where is Sabena? How will immigrants be treated

differently in independent Scotland? Reflect, how would immigrants be

treated differently in independent country? It is part of your campaign

is you need more immigrants to pay taxes. Would there be a difference,

Jim Murphy? Regardless of whether we would be an independent country or

not, I would like to think that we have an enlightened attitude towards

immigrants. I am a Murphy, I came from Ireland `` my family came from

Ireland. If Scotland was independent, we would need more

immigrants because we have an ageing population. Immigrants make our

country more prosperous and more interesting, more diverse. The

Polish immigrants who have come in recent years have strengthened our

economy in really important ways. Humza, do we have consensus here? On

the positivity that immigrants bring, of course. I am the son of

immigrants as well. Where I differ from Jim Murphy is that, of course

we need immigration because of our ageing population, but the point is

that the UK government 's immigration policy is being driven

by UKIP. We are seeing it. I was disgusted to see, just a mile down

from here, posters that say Ago backcombed. We have vans driving

around London scene Go Home. This is one of the worst racist insults

thrown at me. I do not have another home, this is my home. That slogan

is disgusting. We need control of our immigration system so that when

we have skills gaps, engineers for example, we can use the immigration

policy and leave us to attract more skilled immigrants. If we leave it

to the UK government, the borders are being closed, we are told that

which not want immigrants and that they are not welcome. That is not a

good system, Scotland is a welcoming country and we should have control

of our immigration system. Who wants to make a comment on this? You think

immigration is good or bad? Do indeed more people? Immigration is

very good. We need more people coming, and my experience is that

people are being welcomed well so immigration is good. Right back who

wants to make a comment? You made the comment that three miles down

the river from here there are food banks, but what is your thought on

if Scotland is not have enough food to defeat it in population, why

should we be encouraging other people from other countries to come?

The theory is that they would pay tax and tax would go into the

government. You are a very quiet here. What about you? I think

immigration is a great idea. It makes the country more diverse

place. People will pay tax and they can paper their own food and also do

jobs that people do not want to do here. It is a great example of

immigration. There are jobs here but we do not seem to want to do them.

Let's move on. A last question is from greater. Where is he? ``

Gregor. We have been told that Scotland would like to retain

membership of NATO. How does this square up with the other goal of

removing the nuclear deterrent from Scottish soil? Another one for you

Humza. A good question. All you have to do is look at NATO 's membership.

25 of the 20th of this `` the 20 member countries do not have nuclear

weapons. If you look at the Charter of NATO, the strategic concept aims,

one of the strategic concept is to have a nuclear free world. The

actual quote is` create the conditions for a nuclear free world.

What about a sign that the day we vote for independence was Scotland,

one of the first things we do in our Constitution is sad that in Scotland

we will not have nuclear weapons. I would rather have a future in a

peaceful world opposed to nuclear weapons. 60 to 80% of all people

polled in Scotland are against having nuclear weapons here. And yet

somehow we have them housed 20 miles from Glasgow. That is incredible.

Let's not spend money on weapons of mass destruction, let's spend money

on fighting poverty of our people here in Scotland.

(APPLAUSE) Would we not all like to have a

nuclear free world? But how do we get rid of them? We have enormous of

nuclear weapons, in Russia, China, the US, the question is how do we do

that? In uncertain world where Russia, North Korea and others have

them, surely the judgement is that we should do it together. Those get

rid of them together through talks and negotiations. I do not want to

get to a point where the UK disarms unilaterally while all of the others

carry on regardless. We lose our influence than. If we want a nuclear

deterrent, we have to do it in a way that reduces costs. But the idea

that you stay member of NATO, which is a nuclear organisation, it is

written in the Constitution of NATO that the US nuclear weapons will

defend Europe, the fact that you would stay within that and have

nuclear weapons in the north of England does not make Scotland

safer. It is not make the world safer. When it comes to costs, fur

Yes campaign have spent the nuclear weapons money on 20 different

things. It is an example of, what is the issue you are most worried

about? Don't worry, we will give up our nuclear weapons and spend the

money on exactly what you want. Let's get rid of nuclear weapons,

let's do it together, let's spend that money to help create a fair and

more just society. But let's not try to hoodwink the people that it is

easy on NATO, it is easy on the EU, it is easy to join all of these

organisations, it is another example they have not done their homework.

You have to read the white paper to support the Yes campaign. Your

campaign is a shopping list, I wish list without funding.

(CROSSTALK) Will stick to our audience. How do

you address the massive cost of nuclear weapons, even using those

figures, it is not even address the ?12 billion spending gap that he has

a massive debt? Who is persuaded tonight by Humza? Less than half.

Who has been persuaded by Jim? That is about half. Nobody has a

majority. Who believes that there should be nuclear free Scotland? Not

everybody. Who believes it should be free tuition for everybody?

Everybody. Thank you very much, a massive round of applause to our two

guests. (APPLAUSE)

That is it. From Humza and Jim and me, goodbye.

Our weekend weather brings struggling temperatures both during