Election 2016 - The Good Friday Agreement Generation

Hello and welcome to an election special programme live from the BBC

in Belfast with me Steven Nolan. And Tara Mills. Tonight first-time

voters in the assembly election will be grilling the politicians looking

for their votes. It hasn't always been an easy ride since 1998 and the

Good Friday Agreement. Over the years Stormont and the political

process have gone from one crisis to another. Let's remind ourselves of

the journey Northern Ireland has been on while our audience tonight

was growing up. Just to make it clear tonight, every

discussion we are having here has been driven, has been asked for by

young people in this audience. So, the politicians are ready, the

audience is ready, so let's kick it. The one thing that came up time and

time again in our research, is, is politics ever going to change?

Matthew, what is your question for the panel? Each election the votes

seem to run along the same orange versus green lines, do the

politicians here see an end in the future to tribal politics? Alistair

Ross, would you like to answer that? The constitutional position of

Northern Ireland is a big issue here so it will be a big issue but the

thing I've found on the doorsteps and most politicians out talking to

people is the issues that come up on the doors are around jobs,

education, health care, investment in communities and keeping their

taxes low in their households. I think politics is changing. Even

looking at that clip, some of the things I've been involved in during

my time at the assembly and it's been about trying to bring big

events to Northern Ireland, MTV awards, Open Championship golf, look

at the skyline of some of the companies investing in Northern

Ireland, that is what real politics is about. Many of the disputes we

have at Stormont, particularly looking at welfare reform,

education, how to reform the health health care system. We're moving

towards a more normalised system of politics. Matthew, is how you see

it? Not particularly, because just last year I would recall it was the

Unionist parties who entered into what I would think was a Unionist

sectarian pact. Again, in those areas we wanted to have a prounion

candidate returned to Westminster. I don't think any of us would

apologise for that, we are a Unionist party and we want to

maximise the Unionist vote but the issues we are dealing with on a

daily basis and at Stormont, maybe not always reported as some of the

more difficult issues that arise from time to time, are the

bread-and-butter issues. You are talking here like it hasn't been one

of the big issues in this very election, vote DUP and keep Martin

McGuinness out. That was on some of your brochures. Keep another man out

rather than vote for us, keep the bug out. I find it remarkable this

is an issue that we want our leader to be the First Minister, of course

we do. Why would you go into an outdoor action if you don't want to

win it. If you ask people if they want Arlene Foster as their First

Minister, and many people do. ... Keep the other guy out, don't let

Martin McGuinness become the First Minister. The differences between

First Minister and Deputy First Minister? There is a symbol that

difference. Unionists will want to make sure there is a Unionist

leader. This is a joint office and we've had this discussion. We are

saying it's important for Northern Ireland to have a First Minister who

has the right plan for the future and I make no apology for saying...

What is the difference in power between the First Minister of

Northern Ireland and the Deputy First Minister? There is a status

difference. Symbolic. The bigger party will have the first missed and

the second biggest the Deputy First Minister but if you are trying to

say it's not important to Unionist voters you are wrong. What is your

question, James? My question for the politicians is do they think it is

acceptable that a young person like me excited to be voting for the

first time cannot find a party that makes me want to vote for them?

APPLAUSE Nehemie, do you want to answer that,

because on paper you should be the party who anybody who doesn't want

to vote along sectarian lines should want to vote for? When I got

involved in politics I wasn't necessarily sure that any party

fully matched what my ambitions for Northern Ireland were. The first

election I voted in at the time was a European election. But when I got

involved in politics when graduating from university it was because I

wanted to make a difference. I would say this to you, first of all choose

the party which is the best fit. You will never get a perfect fit because

parties have a broad sweep of policies, they will not be able to

match everything and every priority of yours. Pick the one that is the

best fit, and the second thing I would say is get involved, change

the party that is the best fit to be a better fit, because that is how

you make change happen. We have been asked if Northern Ireland politics

will ever change. I believe it can otherwise I wouldn't have got

involved in the post first place because I got involved in politics

to make a difference. When I watched the video beforehand I see things

that I lived through when I was growing up and I don't want another

generation of young people to live through them. I have not turned my

back on it but that is why I got involved and I would encourage you

in this room to do the same. Up at the back, the girl in the white

shirt. This is a direct question to you. You said there is is Mbolhi

difference between First Minister and Deputy First Minister. What

would your party do if, let's say, if Sinn Fein or the SDLP got it, or

Alliance got it? What would happen? Would you walk out of the executive

again? APPLAUSE

What we are absolutely focused on... You are speaking to the lady there.

We are trying to make sure we are the main party. I asked you, I

didn't ask you if you were the biggest party, I asked if what if

another party was the biggest party. APPLAUSE

We're democrats and we recognise the Democratic vote but we are doing all

we can to make sure that doesn't happen. You have still not answered

my question. APPLAUSE

I'm asking you what would your party do if another party wins more of the

vote? Would your party serve under Martin McGuinness if that was the

democratic will? We will cross that bridge when it comes to it but we do

not want that to happen. We are having this, the message to every

single one of you, we are not having it. These people come down here and

we will answer their questions. The question is, would you serve under

Martin McGuinness as a First Minister if that was the democratic

will of this country? Again, I go back to... Would you do that? We are

trying to get as many votes as possible and return as many

candidates as possible so that we have the most ministers possible.

Did that answer your question no, with respect but no. We are going

out to try to win the election. Yes or no? We are trying to win the

election. Would you not honour the agreement, is that what you are

saying? That is not what I'm saying. As any politician would, we are

going out to win, we are not contemplating losing and that is why

we are selling a platform that hopefully people will vote for.

Emma, you have a question. Has the Stormont assembly matured enough to

have an official opposition? When we look at this clip tonight it is is

it to forget how far we have travelled as a society. When you

look at some of the parties' manifestos, there don't appear to be

getting ready for government. Sinn Fein are ready for government, we

will launch our manifesto early next week with ten priorities for

government. As a society we must not forget we are a post-conflict

society. Many of the challenges we face day in day out our unique to

this part of the world. It is a lot about the past versus the future to

night but I don't see it as that. It is dangerous to pick the past

against the future. If we are truly to build a future all of us want we

need to bear in mind the needs of the past and the thousands of people

in our society who still have the heartache, still have the loss and

sense of ingestion injustice and have to deal with it every day. Do

you think politicians concentrate too much on the past? I think they

do and it's time for them to grow up and realise we need an opposition in

order to have effective government in this country. The parties that is

most likely to affect, you have not given any emphatic answer one way or

another. Doug Beattie, will you go into opposition? The first thing to

remember is any party going into a campaign is fighting to win the

campaign, to be the largest union party. As an Ulster Unionist I'm

campaigning to be the largest unionist party in the executive.

What if that doesn't happen? Let me finish, if we don't we have to

prepare for opposition. We have already said the programme for

government is not progressive and if there is no collective will to drive

it forward we will go into opposition. What does it mean if the

programme for government is not progressive? How long is a piece of

string? What does it mean? What are the red lines? Nobody knows how long

is a bit of string, you cannot know until you negotiate. If I want to

finish what she asked me, any real democracy has a government and an

opposition to hold that government to account. I think you are

absolutely right, we need an opposition. Here is the problem

possibly with people like you and your party saying we need to go in

and negotiate and then we will tell people whether we are going to go

into the executive or whether we are going to go outside. Guess what that

is after? After everybody in this room have voted. Maybe they want to

know what you stand for before they give you what is valuable. That is

called policies. We have policies that you look at. What are your red

lines? We have policies that you look at and decide, can I support

the Ulster Unionist Party on those policies and you support them or you

don't not support them. Then we go into negotiations and from that we

will decide. It is very clear that you stand in election in the party

to be the largest party in government and that's the platform

we are standing in. We have a new leader under Colum Eastwood, 32

years of age, a younger generation coming forward in the Assembly, and

a whole surge of the MLA's new candidates coming forward. We want

to provide representation for a new generation coming forward. Am I

hearing tonight that you are all agreed to an opposition but we just

don't know if any of you want to do it? Well, you don't stand election

to go into opposition and that is very clear and you can see that

anywhere in a democracy. We will take very seriously and take stock

very seriously where we are at after the lecture and consider it then,

following discussions on whether or not there is a commitment from the

DUP and Sinn Fein, or any other party that is the largest party

depending on how the election goes. We will determine whether to go into

opposition then. Let's hear from one of the smaller parties. David Jones,

you were associated with something in the past that happened at

Drumcree. Do you think Ukip, the party you stand for, represents

something different for young people? Very much so because the

policies we have, we are looking at things differently with regards to

health, with regards to welfare, with regards to employment. And we

believe that we have something to offer young people. We are very,

very concerned that many young people who may be here who are in

the process of studying at university, schools, whatever. What

their prospects are for the future. We believe we need to have this

joined up government which we don't have at the moment, whereby parts of

it are working together to ensure that whenever people graduate,

whatever it may be in, that there is jobs there for them, that they can

immediately go to. How do you do that? We believe many of the Stem

subjects taken, we would not charge student fees. Say, medicine,

mathematics, science is. That would mean those people would be able to

study those subjects. Doesn't that discriminate against other students

who have to pay? No, it means we are opening it up and we also want to

have universities and is teaching the technical subjects that people

can go and take apprenticeships at and do other jobs. We will provide a

raft of jobs for young people, we need to tie that up between

education and jobs at the end of it. At the moment the tie-up is not

taking place and we have a disjointed form of administration

which is doing nothing and providing nothing for any of our community.

Thank you, the guy in the turquoise T-shirt with your hand up. What is

your point? I have a question towards the DUP.

Imagine in your election manifesto your plan or your things you want to

do is just take money away from the Irish medium sector in the next

Assembly executive. I was what happening why would you do that?

What's the reasoning behind that? Surely the English language sector

in Ireland which has been here since... Let's get an answer quickly

from Doug Beattie and then we are pushing on. Go on, Doug. It is a

fair spread of funding is what we really need. I don't think we need

to take money away from it. We need to make sure we are not forcing

money into it and taking it away from another area. We shouldn't be

taking money away from it. It just needs to be an even spread of that

money. Surely the money is evenly spread in the 18 projects that John

O'Dowd, two of the schools were Irish mediums. 16 were English.

Surely there is an even spread. Surely we should be putting more

money towards that. It is a discussion we can have and I promise

you we'll have it at another time. APPLAUSE. Listen, if you are at home

tonight and you have thoughts about what we are talking about and you

are following us on Twitter, don't forget the hash tag. Thank you

Steven. Another contentious issue you want to talk about tonight is

the issue of abortion. With our first question for the panel it is

eve if a. Why is it the abortion laws in Northern Ireland have

remained the same despite in the rest of the UK they've been changed

and adopted since the 1960s? APPLAUSE. Alastair Ross. It is an

incredibly difficult issue. It's one there are very strong opinions on

both sides. Devolution of course allows us to have our own laws to

suit the community we represent. I think over the last year, two years

perhaps, we've had a pretty deep discussion in terms of our abortion

laws, whether they are fit for purpose. One story in particular. I

don't think anybody who listens to those ladies wouldn't have sympathy

for them and want to do something to help them. We are a pro-life party.

We believe in the anxietity of life. Believe in the anxietity of life. We

-- in the sanctity of life. This is very important. There were attempts

to tag on amendments to the last justice bill to make exemptions for

foetal abnormalities and crime... The leading clinician in that area

said there is no such term in medicine as FFA. That would lead to

difficulties in legislating for it. That's disputed. There are many

clinicians who say there's a definition of foetal abnormality.

You are choosing one. Let's say it is disputed then, Steven. Naomi

Long. This is really important... Naomi Long, your party has no policy

on this whatsoever, does it? You allow people to vote on their

individual conscience. So when people are voting for your party and

this issue is important to them, they can't vote for your party can

they? They can. They can speak to the individual candidates. We don't

run a list system in Northern Ireland. Ireland. You vote for a

particular representative, so you get to speak to that individual and

find out what their views on and you get to decide whether or not those

views are compatible with your own. It's been referenced by Alastair the

case of Sarah and the case of FFA. I think he's misrepresented the

situation in that case. People made promises. Regardless of what your

views are, if you are going to make promises to the electorate, make

promises to people in those situations, shoe keep those

promises. APPLAUSE. Those amendments were not

tagged on. They were consulted on by the Department of Justice. When the

executive blocked them, colleagues of mine brought them forward to

allow them to be voted on in the Assembly. People who gave commitment

to Sarah and to her mother and to other women who find themselves in

that same situation, that they would allow a free vote didn't allow a

free vote. This is crucial, because if we had a free vote in the

Assembly, if matters allowed people to act in conscience, we would have

seen the first steps in abortion form already cleared. Because there

was a majority of people in the Assembly who wanted those FFA

changes to go through. I think there needs to be more than that. I I

think that in cases of sexual crime abortion should be legal. I think we

have to tackle the reality, which is that people can buy abortion pills

online and can put themselves in quite a dangerous health situation

themselves. We'll-cum-to that situation. Megan, do you agree with

Naomi Long? I actually agree with the DUP on this, I think it is

murder and the slaw should stay the same.

APPLAUSE. Do you want to give your view on that? I think that's

ridiculous. Go ahead. How is it murder when it's not a human being?

It might have human DNA but I don't agree that something within the womb

is a human being, because a banana has human DNA. The guy here. Why

should the Government be able to tell people what they can and can't

do, human rights and their right for choice. They should stay out of it.

APPLAUSE. Daniel McCrosland from the SDLP, what the DUP have done,

they've set up through the Department of Health a working party

to recommend, to make recommendations on law change here,

and the SDLP have supported that. Can I get clarity again for the

electorate tonight what that working group recommends, will the SDLP

support in full? First of all to follow on from the other panellist

it is a very sensitive issue. It's one that the debate will continue on

right across the whole of Northern Irelandal Northern Ireland. There is

differing views on it, but in relation to the working group, we

will participate in the working group. We'll listen to what

proposals come forward but the reality is the SDLP is and since its

inception a pro-life war. I'm not second guessing what the outcome

will be, what's the point of setting up an expert working group if you

don't accept its recommendations. Is it possibly to stall things until

after the election? Absolutely not. The SDLP have never shied away from

this debate. When the debate came to the Assembly following the Alliance

amendments. There weren't Alliance amendments. Tagged on to the justice

bill. They were not moved by the party. What I would be more curious

about is it is all very well being objecting to pro-life or objecting

to abortion in all cases but what's the alternative? Is it more

contraception? Is it more teaching on sexual conduct? Or is it

literally just obeying the scriptural commandment of

abstinence? APPLAUSE Katrina, you have a point

on this. I'm pro-choice. For example in the case there is of rape and

domestic abuse, where the woman does end up carrying a child for nine

months and the mental issue that goes along with that, surely two

live s could be lost rather than one and the abortion should be the

given. It is a private choice, a personal choice, so medically kite

should ahead. Chris Hazzard, some people might be surprised to hear

that Sinn Fein isn't a pro-choice party. Sinn Fein are opposed to

abortion on demand, but this is a highly sensitive and for many young

women and families involved in this it is heartbreaking. But what we've

seen to date is a complete failure of political leadership from some of

the political parties. Some parties sat down with Sarah and her family

and made promises. As soon as the election came around the corner they

ran for the hills. Can the same not be said for Sinn Fein, the

pro-choice situation? We are not... So clarify for the audience then. We

are not in favour of abortion on demand. What we've said and those

instances of sexual crime or where the woman's health is at risk or

with fatal foetal abnormalities we think the choice should be

available. If the family want to go ahead, the correct care provision

has to go ahead. We stand ready in the Assembly to vote on it when

other political parties grow up and show the leadership that's required

for our women in society. APPLAUSE. Doug Beattie,ly be

interested to get your views on this. A member of your party said

there should be a relaxation on the abortion laws. Where does your party

stand on this? The Ulster Unionist Party let us decide our own paths.

What's your personal view? I give my path openly to anybody who asks it.

It is simple and clear. I think our abortion laws are Victorian. They

need to be amended. APPLAUSE. Politicians have not shown

leadership. In fact they've let down the people of Northern Ireland.

Abortion still happens, the difference being if you've got money

in your pocket, you can go and get an abortion. If you don't, you

can't. I would allow abortion forfeital foetal abnormalities and

sexual crime. One of the big issues of why abortion is in the headlines

in recent weeks here in Northern Ireland was because of a woman as

you know received a suspended sentence for ending her pregnancy

with an abortion pill that she bought online. Do you think that

woman should have been prosecuted, and women like her? Absolutely not.

Why are we criminalising people here. If that woman had money in her

pocket she would have went to England, got an abortion. You know

what? All the do gooders in this country would have said absolutely

nothing, so she shouldn't be criminalised for not having... Even

though it is against the law? The law is a nonsense. The law is

Victorian. What I'm saying is she should not be criminalised because

she didn't have the money to go to England. If someone tonight buys one

of those pills online, which is against the law, should they be

prosecuted? I would say... What, buys the pill and does what, buys

the pill and takes it to induce an abortion? Correct. I don't think it

is in the public's interesting to prosecute the law. Do we ignore that

law, the woman should be prosecuted in that instance? I don't think

anybody should be buying pills for any medication online. When it comes

to criminality, it's absolutely not in the public interest to

criminalise a vulnerable young person like that. It is not in. What

I'm saying is for people that might do it over the next few weeks,

should the police go after them, or not in the This is an example of

where the lack of clarity needs addressing. We need the close the

loopholes and have laws brought into the 21st century. Let's hear from

the only party that's openly pro-choice in Northern Ireland. What

do you make of what we've heard tonight? We need to keep into

consideration that the United Nations has called our current law

not up to human rights standards. Abortion is a healthcare issue. We

are fail people who need access to it in Northern Ireland. People will

continue to go to Great Britain and elsewhere to access abortion. Until

we support the introduction of the 1967 act, introduce radical reform

to our current law, we'll continue to ostracise people's healthcare. So

many people want to talk to us in the audience. How can we say that

abortion isn't murder when a pregnant woman who is killed is

considered double homicide? APPLAUSE. We'll hold that thought,

thank you. I think we all agree that abortion is a really personal issue,

but because of that surely it should be a woman's choice to decide what

she gets to do with her body, a personal choice for a woman.

APPLAUSE. And so for those who argue what about the unborn child, what

about protecting that child? For me I think that, in my opinion is that

a child when it's in the womb is not really a child yet. When it comes

out of the womb that's when it's born.

The young man in the tracksuit at the end. It is sad we have got

ourselves into a position where somebody who has enough money to go

to England is not a criminal and somebody who doesn't is a criminal.

APPLAUSE The lady down here, go ahead. I

don't think an unborn child should be punished for the rape, say if a

woman was raped, why should a child be killed because the woman cannot

deal with the pressure? That is not fair on that unborn child. When you

say the woman cannot deal with the pressure. The stress and the trauma

from the rape issue. So the child is born, you are forcing that mother to

go through with that pregnancy and she has been raped? As a woman,

personally, I wouldn't have the power to kill an innocent child over

some stupid action that the man has made. And there is a lot of

families. Isn't the keyword" personally"? What about other women?

My personal decision, it is very selfless and I think other people

should be selfless. There are many families who are unable to have

children who would be happy to have that child and raise it as their

own. APPLAUSE

Here is the craic tonight, there are so many hands up in the audience, if

you are talking about this at home tonight as you are watching this,

for goodness sake, get on Twitter and we can continue the

conversation, don't forget the hashtag, it is #GFAGen.

Next up, another subject that has got our young people exercise, jobs,

money and the future. Vicky, you have a view. As a young unemployed

mum, it is called jobs benefits but what are the benefits? You have

programmes and training programmes, but if you don't have a baby-sitter

because you don't have the means to go out to work because you don't

have somebody to look after your child. You'd like to see childcare

provided? Yes, I'd like help with childcare. Sean, is Sean here?

Anymore points on this? What do you think the Assembly could be doing to

make things better for the future? We want to see jobs? Let me hear

your opinion here. What do you think? A key issue with the economy

which is often forgotten and overlooked, is that it is thought by

2020 quarter of children will live in poverty in Northern Ireland. Our

executive and governing parties think it is a good time to give a

cut in corporation tax to those at the top end of the scale and the

richest. I want to know why. It will be regarded as bringing in jobs but

it is bringing in jobs, trickle-down economics, why is it important to

give tax cuts to the rich and not those at the bottom of society?

Chris Kermode you want to come back on that? -- Chris, do you want to

come back? A lot of economists would say reducing corporation tax would

be an advantage when we go to create high-end jobs and invest that in and

that will be important going forward. One of the big successes of

the Assembly in the last number of years, it was able to create 40,000

jobs. We want the target next time to be 50,000. Two things are

important, we need a better quality of job and we need to see dispersion

of the jobs across the North. Corporation tax, if you reduce it,

what happens is, for what we reduce corporation tax by it will cost

money and began more for Northern Ireland is we will generate more

money from attracting those businesses in. Do you know what it

will cost to reduce corporation tax? We know the negotiations must go

forward with the British government but in the fresh start agreement we

said, if this is affordable. We don't want to be on the situation

where... It is a firm commitment, Chris Baugh stop what is the

commitment? If it is affordable. So there is a doubt about it? Reads the

fresh agreement. We need to clarify this. There is a doubt about this?

There is no doubt from our party we want to see corporation tax

delivered and reduced. Hasn't it been worked out and agreed? The

difficulty is the price will change depending on what the UK rate is and

the UK rate is coming down so the cost of this is reducing for the

Northern Ireland Executive. I've heard pronouncements from the

executive, some in the executive have been beating their chests, this

is what we have achieved, this is what is happening in 2018, and now

I'm here from you that whether we can afford it or not and you are not

saying it is a firm commitment. We will deliver the lower rate of

corporation tax because we believe that will be part of the

transformation of the economy to grow the private sector and help

people get jobs and attract FDI in Northern Ireland. Arlene Foster and

Martin McGuinness, where they saying we can only do this if we can afford

it? I'm saying we are committed to it but the affordability has got to

be right. That is why the party is in negotiations with the British

government. Sinn Fein are committed, just as the DUP are committed. Have

you worked out how much it will cost? It changes all the time,

George Osborne stands up in Westminster it can change in a

heartbeat and that is why this is about affordability. Just come back

to you for one second, you are against the whole notion of us

attracting businesses, Northern Ireland fighting for those

businesses and attracting them in because it is cheaper here, it is

better here in terms of the finances than in England, Scotland and Wales?

I'm not against attracting business, I'm against the possible creation of

zero-hours contracts, trickle-down economics, of the simple idea of tax

cuts for the rich in a time of austerity. Where are you getting

this from, tax cuts for the rich? It is a strapline. One of those

companies coming into Northern Ireland may give you a job. If that

job is on the zero-hours contract it is unfair and the majority of

companies that employ people at the bottom sector of society are on

zero-hours contracts. How good we attract people to Northern Ireland,

when the corporation tax down south is 12.5%? Are we sure these

companies aren't creating unfair working environments, possibly

polluting the environment, and are we positive they will not create

zero-hours contracts? And on the issue, what if Sinn Fein say they

will do it if it is affordable. But if it turns out if it doesn't look

affordable? Will they flip flop against it, and with the DUP, it is

an example of DUP -ocracy. Why are they giving tax cuts to the rich? It

is not about delivering tax cuts to the individuals, it is a way of

transforming the economy. It is not the only tool we have. You have not

got the agreement yet. He said it was maybe. They have committed to it

and I'd like to think they will follow through with it. It will get

skills for the future job market. Will you band zero-hours contracts

in Northern Ireland? I would ban exclusivity contracts but there is

no justification for them. For zero-hours contracts, they have a

role to play, particularly for small family run catering companies who do

not know about the order book. Could you live on a zero-hours contract?

Yes or no was Mac some people can do it because it suits them. It is

wholly unfair. Could you live on one? Let me finish the question,

would suit my circumstances? It wouldn't. So why is it OK for other

people? Because it does suit some people, if you're looking for casual

hours and you don't want to work regular hours every week it may suit

you. But some people have to take them because they cannot get any

other work. And if they are being abused we are opposed to that. Some

small companies who don't know what the order book will look like from

week to week, that flexibility in the labour market is important for

them because the alternative is those companies going out of

business and nobody wants to see that. Let's move on to tuition fees.

You are hoping to be a graduate, Adam. What is your question for the

panel? I'm glad you brought up attracting business to Northern

Ireland, as potential future graduates and the future of Northern

Ireland, what will make us want to stay and build our career in

Northern Ireland when there seem to be far better opportunities

everywhere else? Do you want to come back on that, Daniel? What is your

take on tuition fees to make it cheaper for students? The STL P

pledged last week in our manifesto launch that we would reduce tuition

fees and increase university places which is important given the level

of people leaving here. -- SDLP. I left to go to university in

Liverpool for that reason and I came back and I want better opportunities

at home and that's not happening at the moment. How do you pay for

keeping tuition fees low? The STL P manifesto is costed, 250 million,

some haven't produced a manifesto two weeks before an election --

SDLP. It cost ?217 million and it's vitally important we ensure students

are skilled for investors to come in and there is a strong workforce and

they can go on to good skilled jobs. Nehemie, your party has not ruled

out raising tuition fees and has been a thorny issue for your

minister. We have in fact made the commitment that we believe fees

should continue to be frozen. We put the cost against it and we have said

you got to invest around ?85 million into further and higher education.

Would that be a red line for you? Let's Sihwan Kim is after the

election. Let's not wait, how about telling these students now -- let's

wait until after the original. The issue will be if we don't invest the

85 million, tuition fees would go up. Or we would not invest the 85

million and the quality of university goes down. So it is not a

red line. Those other choices we have. We are saying that we believe,

and I have to say we believe there is consensus. It is not about

whether you believe. There is consensus that tuition fees be

frozen. It is about giving a clear... I am being clear. Here is

what I'm asking. Visitor redline? We are doing it on the tuition fees,

are you telling people to Mike Newell fight and not accept a rise

in tuition fees, or are you telling them you might roll over on that?

What I'm saying is I will not discuss my redline is here because

how can you negotiate with other parties if they know what your red

lines are? I hear this but many political parties tell me this in

this election and I want to remind you of this: when you say that you

are prioritising negotiating with other political parties, do you know

who are falling off the cliff? Giving guarantees to people like

this. Know we are not. You are putting negotiations before

commenced. We have had the Department for one plumber and

learning for the past five years, Judge us on the record, we didn't

increase tuition fees. How much will you commit to reducing

tuition fees to? It will be a substantial reduction. Come on,

Daniel. You can do better. I'm sorry, but your minister reduced

university places. Hold on, Daniel. Here's the question, how much are

you reducing student fees by, because you said substantial? We

will reduce tuition fees with the hope of eradicating tuition fees.

APPLAUSE You are claiming to reduce it

substantially, what does that mean? From 3800 quid to what? That will be

negotiated. How do you know it will be substantial if you are going to

negotiate? It will be a substantial reduction in tuition fees. 10%, 20%,

30%? How can you know what the cost will be if you don't know how much

they will be. You are going to put them up! I have been honest. I have

said that we can hold them at the rate that they are if we invest 85

million in universities, without any detriment to the university system.

And you'll is telling as he is going to reduce it, he tells at as it is

costed but not tell is how much it is by. Our manifesto is costed at

217 million, and within that we have allowed for the reduction of tuition

fees. You don't know. Will you reduce tuition fees or keep them

where they are? If you let me have time, I will say, I didn't go to

university, I didn't have a single O-level or A level to my name,

absolutely nothing, but we have a commitment to those people to

educate them properly and give them the skills they want. At the moment

we have the list tuition fees apart from Scotland in the whole of the

United Kingdom at 3500. It would be fantastic if we can keep it there.

It is not 3500, 3900? 3900, fantastic if we could keep it there

but it may have to go up. In our universities, we have some of the

programmes... Some of the programmes you might have wanted to do have

been cut because there isn't enough funding. Doak, what is the Ulster

Unionist Party policy on tuition fees? Up, down, the same? The policy

is to keep them where they are, try to keep them where they are. Tried?

I'm trying to be ten stone but it hasn't worked. What is your policy?

Let's not joke about this. Hold on, these people... Tell them. I'm

trying to talk. You can have the university you have now which is

underfunded for the tuition fees you have now, for those of you who want

to do languages you cannot, so he have to go to England, so maybe we

have to increase it to include those programmes. What I'm saying to you

is we want to keep them where they are to give you the programmes you

want to do but we may have to increase them. You want to keep them

whether our? Is it it is not a red line. How much will they go up? Nine

grand a year, that much? Not that much. So there is a cap? Who would

want them to go up to nine grand? Stephen, what do you offer people

here in terms of the future? First of awful they talked about

some sort of democracy, but here tonight we have 18-year-olds who've

their first vote, but it's not a democratic vote for their

Government. They are being denied their democratic right to vote a

party out of government and to have an official opposition. Scotland and

Wales are having in their polls, their election the same day as we

are, but they are being given their fundamental right to vote a party

out of government and have an opposition. We've seen evidently

here how this five executive government is not working under the

Belfast agreement. We've seen there's five different views on

education. There is going to be div different views on our economy. How

is that going to work is this a Government isn't going to work for

the economy. In relation to the corporation tax, if corporation tax

was such a valuable asset to fund direct votes. Why would businesses

have to have so many job losses? It's been roughly costed a few weeks

ago, it cost us out of our block grant around ?300 million. Go ahead.

I'm a first year University student and we were under the impression

that our University fees have frozen but this year mine have risen. Is

any party going to be able to freeze and cap those? You were saying you

were going to provide in they would be possibly free.

APPLAUSE. We need loads more time tonight. We are going to move on.

Let's get straight on to the next issue, same sex marriage. Scott,

you've got a view on this? Yes, my opinion from a Christian point of

view is marriage is about more than just love. It is a relationship

where the procreation of children can occur. That can't occur in any

other relationship. Marriage will always remain different regardless

of what policies are put in place. It will continue to be different

because of the sperm relationship and the compatibility between a male

and a female. Go ahead. I would like to ask alstir a question. You said

the DUP is the biggest party in Northern Ireland. Why do you think

it is OK to make comments about so many voters to alienate same sex

marriage? APPLAUSE. I'm not sure that I have

and if I have, I would love to hear what they are. I'm talking about

your party, not you. The DUP stands up for traditional marriage,

alongside many members of the community from unionist and

nationalist backgrounds and individual members of other

political parties. Is your party still repulseed by the act of

homosexuality? Is it still an abomination? I haven't used any...

You haven't but your party has. We need to be careful around this

language. Look, I recognise that societal views are changing and

among younger people there's a much more supportive view around same sex

marriage. That's not the case in wider society. All I ask in return

is respect for those of us who believe in traditional marriage.

That's important. Across the world western democracies are legalising

gay marriage. I don't think it is a question of the it is going to

happen, but when. Why try fighting it when we all know it is going to

happen. It is only making Northern Ireland look dark and backwards in

its opinions. APPLAUSE. Do you have a view on

this? For me coming from a certain population of Northern Ireland that

maybe would not like to see such a thing in our society in Northern

Ireland... So you don't want to see same sex marriage? I think from

being raised, part of my family, that thing isn't natural. It is not

a normal thing that we would see. That's your opinion. Paul, you've

got a different opinion? I was wondering if I could ask the panel

themselves how they feel about the use of the petition of concern in

such a way as to manipulate... APPLAUSE There is currently a review

being held on the Petition of Concern. I was wondering if any

offious understood was was happening. We are tight for time,

but the Petition of Concern, what happened in the last vote in the

Assembly, the majority of people voted for gay marriage in Northern

Ireland, and the DUP used a mechanism called the Petition of

Concern to block it. So you blocked the democratic will of the Assembly.

Look, we would have done away with the Petition of Concern. It is other

parties who wanted to keep it. I think everybody at one stage or

another has used the Petition of Concern. More comments over here,

what do you think? It was said about the majority of the population does

not support gay marriage, however a poll found that 68% of people do. Do

storm feel it is OK to justify what the majority of the population in

Northern Ireland support? APPLAUSE. It is a bit rich, you were

talking about democracy all night, but whenever a policy or piece of

legislation doesn't suit you, you vote against it through the Petition

of Concern. This is for UUP, I made a documentary about Northern

Ireland's progress and in that I interviewed a member of the DUP, Roy

Beggs. He stated same sex marriage, if you let them, arriage, if you let

them, that's what arriage, if you let them, that's what he said - them

- marry you will have multiple marrying and twosomes and threesomes

as well. He stated that polygamy was same sex marriage. I want to get

your comment on that. I understand your point of view, I respect your

point of view. I respect your point of view and your point of view. My

point of view is I'm in favour of same sex marriage. Now, if I was an

MLA... APPLAUSE I would vote in favour of

same sex marriage. What I do not like is when somebody uses an

undemocratic Petition of Concern to block it. That's the real problem.

Every member of your party with the exception of one voted against it.

As I've just said here, I respect every single person's view on this.

But you are not representative of the Ulster Unionist Party with that

view. It is an issue of convince. I lobbied every one of them before the

vote. Go ahead, yes, you. I want to respond to the guy over there, the

Christian who was talking about how it's not OK. As a Christian, you

would say that everyone's made in God's image and everyone is supposed

to be as they are. So you would understand that by excluding the

option of same sex marriage you are sending the message that it's OK for

prejudice and unquality treatment for gay people. Prejudice and

unquality treatment for gay people. -- unequal treatment for gay people.

APPLAUSE. I am not trying to incite prejudice against everyone, but the

Bible teaches we all do things that are wrong, whether it is homosexual

activity or other things. But if we are following Christ's teaching, we

should be forgiven for those things that he has paid the price for us

and will forgive us for those things we did wrong. We don't make any

difference between that and other things we do wrong such as lying and

other things. We don't have anything against gay people but we Dee have

an issue with what they do. You have an issue with them having sex, do

you? We have an issue with them acting on what we believe is

sinceful temptation. We are all tempted in various ways, but them

acting on their temptation I believe from a Bible point of view is

sinful. Sarah? As voting in Northern Ireland is still quite tribal, do

you think it is time for a referendum to gather the public's

opinion on this issue? Chris Hazzard. On the special issue of a

referendum I think we are talking here about the rights of a minority.

Very often the rights of a minority shouldn't be at the whim of a

majority in a referendum. I think the majority of people will come out

in favour of it. It wouldn't have to be so be it. If this issue was so

important to you, you could make it a deal breaker for going back into

the executive with the DUP, into government. You could say if you

cared about this so much, we are not going back in unless you give people

a referendum on gay marriage. It is not a red line is it?

APPLAUSE. We've already said that as soon as humanly possible we'll be

bringing forward a bill to legislate for marriage equality in the next

mandate. It is a travesty... I want a word from Niamey. People have a

right to freedom of religion and expression. Expression. People have

a right to live by religion if that's what they want to do.

APPLAUSE. Civil marriage provisions are there from the state and the

state should treat its citizens equally. The churches should be

protected to make their own decisions on marriage in terms of

how they want to do it under doctrine, but I want to say just one

thing. People say it is about procreation. It is dismissive of a

lot of marriages, including my own. I've been married 20 years. Very no

children, but no-one has the right to judge my marriage as less

valuable. APPLAUSE. As a young Christian I've

been brought up to not judge and to have compassion for people, so by

not allowing this to be legal is that taking this away? And by

legalising it, it doesn't mean you have to participate in it, so why

would it not... APPLAUSE. Go ahead. I want to ask

alstir if he believes the DUP being given a free vote would have an

effect on the DUP vote? I refuse to believe that out of 30 people not

even a handful of your MLAs would abstain from voting on same sex

marriage. It is a chuj issue. It's been discussed for the last number

of years, the SDLP is pro marriage. It is clear and we voted in a

majority to support it. We voted from the Assembly by one MLA to

support it. The policy is clear and we will bring forward a Bill in this

mandate. It is clear in our manifesto, for marriage equality. Go

ahead. How can we tell people, the same with abortion, what they can

and cannot do with their own personal lives? It affects people

religiously but how can we tell them what we can and can't do. I wish we

had another hour to talk about this. Thank you so much. The Ten o'clock

News is coming next. Thanks to everyone. Goodnight everybody.

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