London's Mayor: The Big Debate

This election matters.

London matters.

It's the most important city in the world.

I want to be mayor for all Londoners.

I just recognise the huge role London's played in my life.

We have a real opportunity coming up.

I want there to be a permanent voice for Ukip in London.

People want someone who's going to be able to deliver from day one.

Londoners are absolutely crying out for a different approach.

Together we can win.

Together we can change London.

What really frustrates me is that this is too dominated

by egos, this election.

It matters that London has the right mayor,

someone who can hold Government to account.

We're talking about things that none of the other

candidates are talking about.

APPLAUSE

Our audience of Londoners is raring to go.

We have five of the 12 people hoping to be mayor of our city.

You can join in at home on Twitter, using the hashtag London Mayor 2016.

So let's get straight into it.

Our first question is from Dr Mehdi Dabestani,

a retired GP from Blackheath.

Hello, in light of the recent terrorist attacks in the European

capitals, how are you going to keep us safe in London?

Sadiq Khan.

I remember 7/7 vividly, worrying about my wife

The first thing I will do as the mayor is to make

sure we have a review of our emergency services,

to make sure we're ready for a major terrorist incident in London.

For example, Port of London Authority, Transport for London,

the emergency services, will they be able to

communicate with each other?

I'm a firm believer, as is the current commissioner,

and the previous one, with policing by consent,

enabling police to provide invaluable intelligence

to the police and Security Services.

They've been taken away from our communities in London.

I'll bring them back.

Also, we've got to be tackling the extremists and the radicals.

I want to help mainstream Muslims take on this perverse ideology.

We've got to be helping role models who are British Muslims.

You've got to be closing down the internet service providers.

You can be radicalised in your bedroom now.

It's not like it used to be.

We should be closing those down.

Twitter has been very good.

Some of the internet service providers have been slower.

We have to encourage integration.

It's really important we do that.

Zac Goldsmith.

The first thing to do is to ensure the police have the resources

they need to keep us safe.

That means keeping police numbers at least at 32,000.

I fought to protect the budget a few months ago, successfully

with my colleagues.

We can now guarantee 32,000 minimum for London over the next four years.

I pledge to put 500 additional police on the Tube, to accommodate

the fact that's where much of the danger lies and much

of the anxiety as well.

It's about giving the police the tools they need.

It's not all about the money and numbers.

The police have asked for approval to double the number of armed

response officers in the event that something bad happens.

I back that.

I'll back the police every day.

I think more importantly than both of those things,

the police need to know whoever is in City Hall is on their side.

They make split-second decisions, life-and-death decisions

on a regular basis, invisible to most of us, they need to know

when they make those decisions the mayor is on their side.

I had a meeting recently with armed response officers in Scotland Yard

and I was there to look at all the kit and understand

what they do, but it was very clear that they were looking to me

for reassurance that should I be elected on May 5,

should I be lucky enough to become the mayor, I would be on their side.

It would be unusual if the Mayor of London wasn't

on the police's side.

Who's feeling reassured?

Yes, Sir.

Let me get a microphone to you.

What do you feel about what you've heard so far?

What I'm concerned about secure London.

When we have a problem in London, we used to have bendy bus

and people were dodging the fares, right.

You have 25 police officers from London transport

to just look after a few people, you know.

We were wasting a wasteful source of the police force.

Right.

OK.

I'm not sure that bendy buses are a major terrorist threat.

Sadiq, you say that you would put our Security Services

under an urgent review?

They're always under urgent review.

That's just a gimmick.

The issue is, Andrew, bearing in mind that London

is a terrorist threat - We know that.

I recently visited a unified response unit

practising at Dartford, which the Fire Services organised.

A simple thing we learned from 7/7, can the Port of London radios work

with Transport for London and work with the emergency services?

I will give you another one, if there was a Mumbai-style attack

in London, are there sufficient armed response units

at the moment to address that?

Are you saying - I'll give you another one.

No, let me stick with these two, are you saying the existing

chief of police isn't asking these questions?

I want reassurance that we're ready.

Why don't you just pick up the phone and ask him?

I've met with them.

If you close down ten fire stations, if there are 13 more fire engines

being lost from London, half of London's firefighters

live outside London, I worry about London security.

I need to be reassured, Andrew, as the Mayor of London that we're

all going to be safe.

We've lost 1500 uniformed officers from the streets,

70% of our safe and able teams.

I'm not reassured yet.

I want to be reassured.

Sian Berry, would you be reassured by that in a London Mayor?

I am scared about this.

The risk of having something like 7/7 happen again has

never been greater.

We do need to be doing more.

We know the risk.

What our audience wants to know is if you're mayor,

what will you do about it?

We need to do what's effective not just what sounds tough.

That means community policing, getting communities

and the police on the same side.

It means intelligence-led detection in policing.

A police force truly representative of Londoners and

working with people.

The thing about heavy-handed policing, the thing about mistrust

and Islamophobia, that's exactly what the violent terrorists want.

Communities working together, communities being stronger

is actually the best antidote.

But that won't stop what might already be in the pipeline.

Well, exactly.

I think the mayor's strongest weapon in all of this is not the police.

It's leadership.

It's making sure that people within the community

want to defeat the terrorists, will tell the police when there's

something being planned so we can defeat the things -

Leadership, that's it.

And bringing communities together.

I don't think our audience knows what that means.

Making sure the police genuinely represent Londoners,

that we have a force that's out there doing out of their bounds

on the streets working with communities so that people feel

able to trust the police.

I don't think simply putting more armed officers on the streets

is the right way to do it.

Sadiq is right about the other emergency services.

We need to move on.

We have lots of questions.

Let's hear from Simranpreet Kaur, a student from Notting Hill.

When I'm out with my friends, my Muslim friends in public, people

still stare at their Islamic dress.

What will the candidates do to stop division in the communities?

Zac Goldsmith.

From a personal point of view, I'm very relaxed about what people wear.

We're a wonderful, diverse, multicultural city.

We're a successful city.

We are a harmonious city.

Look across the water at Paris, a beautiful city architecturally,

a great history, but it's a divided city.

There are families leaving Paris now, who've been

there for three generations, because they no longer

feel safe in Paris.

They no longer believe they have a future.

I don't think we should ever take the harmony and cohesion

in London for granted.

But she still feels that if she dresses in a particular way,

that people look at her strangely.

That's not cohesion.

Relatively speaking, London is a harmonious city because,

I think, of the diversity that we have.

We need to protect that.

Your question was about the hijab, I didn't hear the first part,

or the niqab, I think that's what you said, I'm very

relaxed about that.

When it comes...

I don't think it's you she's worried about.

You're asking about what position I would take as the Mayor of London.

How would you stop people being prejudiced?

People should be free to be themselves.

There's a separate issue of prejudice, of hate crime in London.

That's one of the crimes over the last year that has

gone through the roof, whether it's Islamophobia or hatred

against people with disabilities, anti-Semitism, we saw record amounts

of anti-Semitism last year.

The mayor has a direct role in challenging this.

The mayor doesn't micromanage the police.

The mayor sets the priorities.

I said in my manifesto, I want stamping down on hate crime

to be a top priority.

I don't believe it's much of a leap from verbal violence,

the kind of stuff on social media, on Twitter, for example,

on a daily basis to physical aggression that we get

on the streets.

Let me ask you this, you take that position

with our audience tonight, but Yvette Cooper has said,

the Labour politician, that your campaign and your attacks

on Sadiq Khan has now reached "a racist scream".

I'm very pleased to see Sadiq, in our last debate, distanced

himself from those comments.

It is an outrageous thing to say by Yvette Cooper .

My campaign has been overwhelmingly positive.

What are you saying about Sadiq Khan, is he an extremist?

I have made it very clear, I have never suggested Sadiq Khan

is an extremist in any way at all.

Your campaign team has.

They have not.

Are you taking the high moral ground where other

people do your dirty work, is that how it works?

That's not true.

No-one associated with my campaign team has called Sadiq Khan extreme.

I'm sure he will back up what I'm saying.

No-one's suggested he's extreme.

They're pumping out plenty of information about some

of the people he's mixed with.

Can you tell us tonight, it is not your view that Sadiq Khan

is any way an extremist?

100% my view.

My view is that he is not an extremist.

The point I have made and Londoners have made and the newspapers have

made, on a regular basis, over the last few weeks and months,

is that Sadiq Khan has given platforms and oxygen and even cover

to people who are extremists.

I think that is dangerous.

It's not a question of Sadiq Khan being an extremist.

I don't think anyone other than a few nut jobs on Twitter

have suggested that.

The reality is there is a question of judgment there.

We have a massive battle on our hands, ideological battle,

a battle that right now we're probably losing,

it doesn't help to give platforms or oxygen or cover to people

who mean to do us harm.

APPLAUSE

In your time, Sadiq, you have been associated

with a number of extremists and terrorist sympathisers,

haven't you?

I've never hidden from the fact, and I say this to your audience,

I was a human rights lawyer.

One of the great things about this city is we believe in the rule

of law and the presumption of innocence and due process.

My grandparents were immigrants from India to Pakistan.

My parents immigrants from Pakistan to London.

There's no other city in the world I'd want to raise my daughter.

We don't just tolerate difference, we celebrate and respect it.

It my campaign is a supporter of Jews, Christians,

Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, those who aren't

of organised faith, old, young, rich, poor, even northerners

supporting my campaign.

It's for everyone.

We want to bring communities together.

You're right, there is a challenge in relation to integration.

There is a challenge in relation to prejudice which leads to the hate

crime we've seen over the last year, an increase of 60% in anti-Semitic

hate crime, an increase of more than 34% Islamophobic hate crimes,

almost 30% in homophobic crimes.

That's why if I was Mayor of London the priority for the Met Police

we would addressing the issue of hate crime.

It wasn't just your job as a lawyer for Liberty that

brought you into touch with unsavoury characters.

Lawyers often have to do that.

You appeared on platforms with them.

Sulaiman Ghani, a supporter of a supporter of Islamic State,

you appeared with him nine times.

One of these times you must have found out

what he really believed in.

There are lots of campaigns I have been involved in as chair of Liberty

and as a human rights lawyer and as a politicain.

Do you regret appearing on platforms with people like that?

I regret giving the impression I subscribe to their views.

I've been quite clear that I find their views abhorrent.

Let me give you an example that Zac Goldsmith and I

campaigned together with, against the USA-UK

extradition treaty.

Some of the people extradited were unsavoury.

I have a plan to address the issue of extremism, to tackle

radicalisation.

I've suffered from extremism.

When I first stood for Parliament in 2005, there were extremists

campaigning against me in the mosque I used to worship

in saying I was going to hell because I was encouraging people

to take part in democracy.

I suffered death threats when I voted for same-sex marriage.

Andrew may say it's all right, but it's not all right.

No, I just need to bring in other people.

Because this is becoming a monologue.

Caroline Pidgeon.

What do you make of the tone of this campaign?

I'm Caroline Pidgeon, the only candidate who for the last

eight years has been working day in, day out at City Hall

for London holding the Met police commissioners,

four of them, to account.

The campaign, I'm fed up of the mud slinging.

I want to get back to the issue raised by the member

of the audience.

It's really important that everyone can feel welcome in London.

APPLAUSE

Imagine walking around and not feeling

you're part of London.

It's impossible for many of us to imagine, by what you're wearing

and what you look like.

That has to stop.

As Mayor of London I will be passionate to celebrate

all communities in London and work with all communities.

We've got to tackle hate crime.

We need to make sure we have a new strategy that

improves the reporter, investigating and

prosecuting of hate crime.

We need to reverse the cuts in community policing.

I'm the only candidate who will fund 3,000 additional police

officers on the Tube, trains and buses to make sure

we feel safe and make sure we tackle this increase in hate crime

and sexual offences we're seeing across the capital.

Peter Whittle what would you do to improve cohesion in the capital?

I do have a problem with the full-face covering.

I think it is the absolute antithesis of cohesive behaviour.

I think it's saying - I don't want to talk to you,

don't come near me.

I think there is certainly, I don't like banning things.

Would you ban it or wouldn't you?

No, I would certainly ban it in certain public areas.

It should not be used in courts.

I don't think that teachers whatever should wear it.

There are certain office, common-sense situations where you

need to see people's faces.

Is that it?

APPLAUSE

What else would you do improve cohesion?

You need to see people's faces.

The other thing, I get irritated when we talk

about London being harmonious and all the rest of it.

Sadiq, going back to about 2003, you said that there was a man called

al-Qaradawi brought here by Ken Livingstone.

He has spoken about gays being an abomination.

I take a great interest being a gay man and that women were subservient

and this kind of thing.

I recall that academics had said that he had common sensical views,

that he wasn't extreme.

Right up to the present - No, no you've answered the -

Right up to the present...

I'm the only candidate here who received death threats

for voting for same-sex marriage.

I don't need to be lectured by Peter.

I've spent my entire life fighting inequality and injustice.

We will leave that there.

This is the big issue of this campaign for many.

This is our next question from Sue Gormati,

a retired recruitment consultant from Redbridge.

My son earns a decent wage but can't get on the housing ladder.

I keep hearing the words "affordable housing".

What exactly do the candidates mean by affordable?

What's affordable, Zac Goldsmith?

A crisis is a word used in politics in relation to almost every issue,

but we do have a housing crisis in London.

The reality today is that you could be earning

the average London salary, around ?34,500, or even double that,

and you're still going to struggle to get on the housing ladder.

That is a real problem.

We can tinker around the edges.

But the only long-term solution is to increase supply.

We need 50,000 homes a year.

My action plan for London will deliver 50,000 homes a year.

I'll do that by getting a deal from Government whereby they release

the publicly owned brown field land, there is a huge amount of it -

We might get onto this, her question was what do

you mean by affordable?

The only way to enable people onto the housing ladder

is to increase supply.

That's the only answer.

I understand that, that wasn't what she asked.

She wanted to know what is your idea of an affordable house?

I can tell you an affordable housing policy.

Everyone in this room will have a definition

of affordable housing.

But a policy will allow an average Londoner with an average income

to get the keys to their first home.

It's a very remote possibility in today's climate.

That's what the next mayor must address.

If I'm elected this will be the biggest challenge and the one

I most look forward to taking on.

APPLAUSE

In terms of buying a starter home, can you, Sadiq Khan,

tell us what's affordable?

It's not ?450,000, which is the figure

Zac's scared to mention.

That is nonsense.

We've had this argument and you've backed down.

Don't do it again just because you're on TV.

APPLAUSE

I voted against a bill which Zac supported saying a starter

home is one costing up to ?450,000.

I didn't ask you what Zac Goldsmith thinks because he won't tell me.

I'm asking what you think is affordable.

I'm about to tell you.

Good, get on with it.

It's a third of average earnings.

If the average earnings in Southwark is ?1800 a month,

the average living rent should be one third of that,

which is ?600 a month.

When I define genuinely affordable homes, I mean just that.

One of three things, they're either a home

where you pay a social rent, a council property.

Or they're a home where you pay one third of average earnings.

So it will be London living rent, one third of average earnings

or shared ownership, part buy, part rent.

We've modelled homes in zones three to six in London

on Transport for London land, land that we own, public

land that's surplus.

We think there would be a deposit of between ?5,000 to ?6,000

and a monthly rent and mortgage of less than ?1,000.

We've modelled it and we can make it work.

That's a million miles away from ?500,000 which

is what Zac thinks.

Caroline Pidgeon, does that sound affordable?

It's really important as I go round London

talking to young people, it's a story I hear time and again,

people can't afford to rent in London, let alone to buy.

What we need is an Olympic effort to build the homes

that Londoners need.

That's why I'm the only candidate who's saying I will build

council housing again, genuinely affordable council housing

as well as those for shared rent.

How many?

I will build 50,000 homes a year, ten times more council housing

than Boris Johnson has built in the last year.

Where will the money come from?

I'm the only candidate saying I'm going to put money into this.

I'm not just talking the talk.

I'm asking Londoners to continue paying the council tax they've been

paying for the last year, keeping the amount of money

we've all been paying for the Olympic Games,

raise the ?2 billion fund with the GLA land we can build

the homes that Londoners need.

Hold on the council tax preset which is ?20 for everyone who pays

it, that would raise less than 60 in a year.

It's 86 million a year.

Even then you're not going to build 50,000 homes on that.

You can borrow against that to raise ?2 billion to build the homes.

From whom would you borrow?

Through cheap public sector borrowing.

My budget was signed off by City Hall.

It's approved.

Would you need to the Treasury to do that?

We need to skill up the workforce.

I've been talking to young people at construction academies.

I want to build a state-of-the-art construction academy to train

Londoners up so they're able to build the homes that we need

right across the capital.

Have you tried to secure Treasury approval for

the increase in borrowing?

City Hall signed off our budget very clearly.

We would have to talk to Government about that.

I'm talking about putting money in.

No-one is talking about that.

They're talking about going with a begging

bowl to Government.

I rent my home.

I've paid out more than half my income in rent.

That isn't affordable.

One of the first things I do, if I was elected mayor,

on the first day I'd call up the Prime Minister and tell him

we need in London the power to control our rents.

That's the first step on the way to saving up

for a deposit for your own home.

APPLAUSE

On new homes I'm planning to put money in.

The council tax preset is a good idea, but we have to break the model

of the big developers.

The other candidates are talking about getting more out

of the big developers, we need to bypass them

and build our own model of affordable housing.

I want to work with investors, but not investors who are offshore

and want a massive profit.

I want to work with people like me who want to be involved in a Co-op -

What investors would you work with to build 50,000 a year?

People like me.

We're paying a lot in rent in London.

We have money to put into homes.

Maybe we can only afford the bricks and mortar,

not London's inflated land prices.

We need to use London's public land as a way of doing things

like community land trusts, cooperatives, working

with smaller developers.

We can do it without going cap in hand to the big developers.

That's been tried for 156 years and hasn't worked.

Peter Whittle, they always seem to want to build

50,000 houses a year.

It is unclear how you would all do it.

How would you do it?

Can I point something out?

Caroline, you say you want to build 200,000 houses, you have said that

on one occasion before.

With a ?2 billion loan, does that mean each house

will cost ten grand?

That is Natalie Bennett territory.

No, no, no.

Absolutely not.

It does mean that.

It is for the council housing element, Peter.

Get your facts right.

How would you build 50,000 houses a year?

Absolutely not.

We do not approach it that way.

It is not being honest or fair with people.

There is no such thing as an affordable home.

The fact of the matter is, London's population is growing

at the rate of a million a decade and anyone who thinks

that the housing crisis is not linked to that kind of uncontrolled

migration is in denial, which includes all four

candidates here...

You don't have a housing policy, you have an immigration policy?

There is no question about it.

Common-sense will tell you that in fact if your population

is going up, by something like a million a decade,

by the time you reach 2050, you have to think of the future of London...

We have a crisis of affordability, not human numbers.

The only problem is, you...

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

You think a million people a decade makes no difference to housing,

makes no difference to infrastructure?

Do you honestly think...

It's a crisis of affordability.

You should be having a go at previous Mayors...

Right.

We will stick with housing.

Hold on.

You are not being honest.

We will stick with housing.

I want to ask the audience this: They all, in their different ways,

say they are going to build 50,000 houses a year.

I don't.

Except for our candidate from Ukip.

Four out of the five.

Both Mr Johnson and before Mr Livingstone never really managed

more than 20,000 a year.

From what you have heard, do you think any of these

candidates, of the four who want to do it, is capable

of building 50,000 a year?

Raise your hand if you think that.

LAUGHTER

That is a massive vote of no confidence in the housing policies

of all the candidates.

Let me ask you another question as well.

Who thinks it is now going to be impossible for your children,

or for yourself, to get a foot on the housing ladder?

Who thinks it will be really difficult for your children?

You think there is a massive problem, but you are not sure

they have the solutions.

Let's stick with housing, it's so important.

Nazrin is a magistrate from Ilford.

Policies like "first dibs for Londoners" sound

promising but impractical.

How would you decide who is a Londoner?

Who is a Londoner, Sadiq Khan?

We have a way of doing it when it comes to the application of council

homes, when it comes to the part buy/part rent.

Can I explain the policy?

There is a huge amount of land the Mayor owns, TfL

owns, Londoners own.

Think of Hyde Park.

16 times Hyde Park is what TfL own, some of it is surplus.

We can say one of the conditions of you getting one of those homes,

whether it is London Living Rent, a council property, or shared

ownership is you have to be a Londoner.

If you have been renting in London for more than five years,

you will jump the queue in relation to part buy/part rent.

In relation to homes and private land, already some local authorities

do it/ so Hackney have a scheme where the condition of getting

permission was the developer had to market in Hackney for the first

six months before they could market overseas.

It is a scandal before homes are completed they are sold

overseas to investors in the Middle East and Asia.

We have to stop that.

Transport for London, there are 16 Hyde Parks,

what percentage of the 16 Hyde Parks would be

suitable for housing?

10% we think as conservative estimates.

So it's only 1.6 Hyde Parks?

A conservative estimate...

OK, two Hyde Parks.

It's not 16, is it?

That's to get things going.

There are also brownfield sites, other land, ex-courts,

NHS land, police stations.

Rather than a fire sale, selling police stations

to investors from overseas, let's keep the freehold and build

genuinely affordable homes on that public land...

Transport for London says that there is only room for 10,000

homes, over ten years, over ten years, on your 16 Hyde Parks.

At least 10% of that we can start building straightaway.

We have modelled the land in Zones 3 to 6, we can start going

straightaway, and there is other public land as well.

At the moment, the Mayor is selling off the public land in a fire sale.

We have to stop selling off our crown jewels and build

affordable homes on that land.

I think our magistrate wants to come back.

You haven't answered the question.

I asked you, how do you define a Londoner?

I don't think you've really answered...

Some local authorities say you have to live

in the borough for a year, some say two years,

some say three years.

They ask for evidence of that.

Councils do that now.

It is not a new thing.

When it comes to part buy/part rent, we already do that now.

Housing associations do it now.

There is nothing new there.

So as long as there is evidence of living in London,

there could be council tax, there could be other forms as well,

and you will be able to get one of the homes we build in London.

We are a city of immigrants.

Do you really want to start to define a Londoner?

It already happens when it comes to council housing.

There is almost no council homes available these days?

And the homes we build...

And you are not promising to build anymore.

The homes for Londoners we build...

And we shouldn't be embarrassed of saying that, you have to live

for a period of time in an area before you are eligible...

There's a gentleman in the blue jacket.

I want to hear from you.

Then I will bring Zac Goldsmith in.

I'm a property developer.

Have you ever thought about recycling money?

You give me ?1 million, I build ten houses for ?100,000 each

and then to my deserving people in London, these houses will be

worth at least ?300,000, ?400,000.

What I do to my deserving nurse, I say to her, you work for me for 15

years and I will build you a house for ?100,000

and that is all I want off you.

Because this house is going to be worth ?200,000.

I don't want that, I'm the Government and all I need to do

is build 50,000 houses so all I will do is build the house,

get my money back, and then carry on building.

As soon as I get my money back, I will build the next house,

and it hasn't cost me a penny.

OK, not sure I followed all that.

Maybe the viewers at home did.

Zac Goldsmith, what is a Londoner?

Can I explain the policy first as well, please?

In order to deliver the 50,000 homes a year, which we need to do to close

the gap, to enable people to get on the housing ladder,

much of that will come about through building

on publicly-owned land, not just TfL land -

by the way, they say 30,000, not 10,000 -

but it's a pin-prick in terms of the overall challenge.

Ministry of Defence, Ministry of Justice,

National Health Service...

You would have to buy that land, that is owned by central government?

It doesn't have to be transferred to the mayor.

Why would they do that?

Because we have a housing crisis.

Yes, but the NHS has a lot of land, the NHS is also short of money,

it will send its land to the highest bidder?

We have a housing crisis, a 360,000 long

social housing list.

We know that.

What indications have the Government given you that they will

give you this land?

I can't tell you that the Government has signed off a plan to release

this publicly-owned land.

As a candidate, with a record of working with governments,

securing a good deal from Government, I'm in a good

place to get that deal.

If we don't get the Government to release that land,

it will be difficult...

What is in your record, what have you ever done to lead us

to believe that you could preside over our house building programme

of 50,000 homes a year?

The first line in the job description of an effective Mayor

of London is being able to get a good deal from Government,

not just a good deal, but the best possible deal.

Ken Livingstone, whatever one thinks about him,

was an effective mayor, he did what he said

he was going to do.

But he never got more than 20,000 houses a year.

Boris Johnson has been a brilliant mayor because he has

worked with Government.

He never got more than 20,000 houses a year.

What is it in your CV that suggests you could build 50,000 a year?

There are two things.

One, I will persuade the Government, as I'm already doing,

to release that land to make it available for development and two,

I will grow the transport network to unlock that land.

If we don't grow the transport network, which means protecting

the transport budget, we don't get those services.

One example of that, Crossrail 2 will enable us to build

200,000 homes that would not otherwise be built.

Sutton Tramlink...

Hold on, on the Crossrail...

Crossrail 2, you are promising to have over 50,000

homes a year by 2020.

Crossrail 2 won't have started digging the tunnel by 2020.

I will be dead by the time it comes.

Even you could be dead by the time it comes!

I hope that is not true, Andrew.

I hope that is not true.

Enough of dead.

Let's have another question.

James Vango-Searle, who is an apprentice project manager.

What is your question?

Thank you.

What would London look like if we left the European Union?

Sian Berry, what would this city be like if we left the EU?

We would be short of 300,000 citizens, many of whom are working

here, running companies, helping to provide jobs for other

people, many of whom are married to or living with people who are UK

citizens and we would have, we would be throwing a lot of people

who are living here, who are from the EU, into jeopardy.

Why would they go?

Because they wouldn't necessarily have residency rights.

Why would they not?

All of this would be called into question if we

start to leave the EU.

What, is there any proposal that anybody who is already

here would have to go?

London is a very, very international city.

No, even I know that.

I'm asking you why would they have to go?

I think that is all in question if we leave the EU.

It is all in question.

I know loads of people who are sorting themselves out

with dual citizenship, who are getting themselves an Irish

passport just in case.

There is a lot of uncertainty out there.

That is different from you predicting that

300,000 would leave.

Uncertainty, I understand that.

There is a lot of uncertainty around.

Caroline Pidgeon, what difference would it make to our capital

city if we left the EU?

When I go to Accident Emergency departments with my son,

I'm delighted that we have got people from the EU working

there as our nurses and doctors and running the Health Service

and it would collapse without those people in place.

If we leave the European Union, we risk losing tens of thousands

of jobs that Londoners have, whether it is working

in the financial sector, the tech industry, research and development,

we would lose those jobs and the support jobs

that go with those.

We would lose the opportunity, the loss of the huge market

that we have to work with, and why would a company

base their European or global head office here in London if they don't

have access to the European market?

It would be unthinkable if we left.

It would be so damaging to London's economy and the whole

of the UK's economy.

That is clear enough.

Peter Whittle?

Let me ask...

London is the financial capital of Europe by a country mile.

Yes.

Is it conceivable that we could stay the financial capital

of the European Union if we weren't a member of the club?

Well, HSBC seem to think so because they have just said

they are staying and it won't make a blind bit of difference.

Most of their business is in Asia.

About ten years ago, everyone was saying in the city,

if we don't join the euro, that is it, everyone will move

to Frankfurt and Paris.

It didn't happen.

It didn't happen.

If I could answer the gentleman's question there?

There are a lot of lies going around about what is going

to happen to London.

First of all, people who are here from the EU will not

have to go back and you know it.

It doesn't work that way.

It is as simple as that.

As for the NHS, most of the people who work from outside of the NHS

are from the Commonwealth countries and from India

and other countries outside.

All over the world.

The majority of people...

They may not be welcome in your world, but they come

from all over the world.

They are extremely welcome and don't try and play some kind of race

card, or anything here.

It is as simple as this.

It is about numbers, right?

We need people who have the skills, whether it is in our NHS,

or in our tech city, we need them from South East Asia,

that is where we need them from.

At the moment, they have to...

We don't need skilled people from France, Germany,

Italy, Spain, Portugal?

People are coming in from the EU, they are allowed to come

in whatever they have, if they have no skills at all.

They are putting pressure on wages, they are putting pressure on jobs

for people here in London.

OK.

Zac Goldsmith, London isn't just the financial capital of Europe.

It is not Brussels, it is THE capital of Europe.

This is by far the most important city on our continent.

Yeah.

Can it remain that way if we were to leave the EU?

I will answer that in two ways.

The first is to say the job of the next mayor is not to take us

out of Europe or keep us in Europe.

The job of the next mayor is to make whatever decision is made

by the British people in the long overdue referendum,

a referendum I welcome and am thrilled that it is happening.

London has to be at the heart of Europe...

One second...

London is the greatest city in the world.

It is also the most important city in the world.

That is not because we are attached, or a part of, or on the edge

of the European Union, it's because we have a legal system

people trust, we have a language people understand, we have a global

outlook, we are underpinned by a parliamentary democracy in

which most people have confidence.

London is the greatest city in the world.

We have a bright and brilliant and glorious future

whatever decision we make.

I happen to think as one of the 48 million people that

will take part in this referendum that it is has a slightly brighter,

more glorious, more wonderful future out because I think

that is where we belong.

Thank you, Zac Goldsmith.

Still plenty to discuss, but first let's hear

from the other seven candidates fighting this election.

I believe in local housing for local people.

There should be a local connection assessment test for social housing.

The longer the connection with London, the greater the chance

of getting social housing.

It is only fair that people who grew up in London have a chance

to live in London.

London is a great world city.

It needs a big figure to lead it, someone that people know,

someone that people listen to.

We need a London for all, not just those dripping in gold.

We want to put our own people first in our own city.

We want to see the 3,000 homeless veterans on the streets of London

housed, we want to see British people housed before

foreigners and migrants, and we want to confront Islamic

extremists who are running rampant on the streets of our capital.

I will help reduce crime.

I would legalise, regulate and tax cannabis.

And I want the Notting Hill Carnival, which is there for 50

years, to remain in the area.

It is the biggest street event in Europe.

Well, with me, you get a maharaja as your mayor,

that is something very rare.

We have solution technologically advanced.

We want to build a million homes.

We want to end the air pollution pandemic.

We want to take this country to the next level.

We are the best.

I want to close London's 23% pay gap.

I want to make childcare affordable.

I want to think about what affordable housing means

for young women who are twice as likely than men to spend more

than half their salaries on rent.

And I want to tackle sexual discrimination and

harassment in the city.

London needs a million new homes.

I have been building homes all my life.

I'm a professional.

All the others are amateurs.

They have made tiny targets and even they admit they won't

keep their promises.

I'm the only person who can do it.

The others are time-wasters.

The other seven candidates bidding to be mayor of our city.

We have a question next from Thomas Blatchford,

a student from Ilford.

Thomas?

How would candidates invest in transport and stop fares rising?

Sadiq Khan?

TfL's budget is ?12 billion a year.

It is good but it is very flabby.

Fares have gone through the roof.

We pay the most expensive fares in all of Europe.

We need to make it more efficient, cut waste, but also increase

the revenue streams to TfL.

Let me give you a couple of examples.

Last year, TfL spent ?383 million in consultants and agency staff.

It's doubled in the last eight years.

We lost ?61 million in fare evasion and we have a separate engineering

department doing Underground and a separate one

doing surface trades.

Why not merge the two and save lots of money?

There are 450 staff earning more than ?100,000.

There is not one business in London who hasn't made changes

in the last six or seven years.

Are you going to fire them?

We will make sure we make efficiency savings.

How many of the 400 earning 100 grand will you fire?

We won't spend money getting rid of them.

You will keep them?

There are huge inefficiencies we have to get rid of.

You mentioned agency workers, but the unions that sponsor you have

complained that these agency workers are lowly paid and should be

replaced by higher-paid workers.

Why would that be a saving?

The agency staff bill has doubled in the last eight years.

The unions complain...

We should have permanent staff and agency staff

would cost much more.

I have a fully-funded plan to freeze fares over the next four years.

We can reduce consultants by half, we can cut fare evasion...

Let me give you another example.

There are 18 separate franchises running our buses.

40% of the companies are owned by the governments of France,

Germany and Holland.

The fares we pay go towards reducing the fares, guess where,

France, Germany and Holland.

Why aren't we running these companies ourselves rather

than giving them to other countries?

Why not bid for some of these contracts, keep the freehold,

build affordable homes, we get a revenue stream coming

in to freeze the fares but we can make sure TfL is far more efficient.

Zac Goldsmith, how would you handle fares?

Transport for London's commissioner and the former commissioner have

both said that the pledge that Sadiq Khan has made

would cost ?1.9 billion.

Yes, you can take ?1.9 billion out of the budget but you

can't do that and also grow the network.

It's a choice.

You can do one or the other.

I believe that if we don't continue to grow the network,

if we don't improve it, if we don't follow through with

the vital upgrades...

That is a 17% increase, Zac.

We can't afford that.

You might be able to.

17% of...

London would grind to a stand-still.

Do you think that is fair?

Have you finished?

It is not fair.

Let him answer.

Take two billion out of the budget, London grinds to a stand-still.

Even worse than that, you don't unlock the land you need

if you want to solve the housing crisis.

The question from our student was how would you stop fares rising?

I would love, two weeks before this election, where I will need more

than half of the people who vote in London to give me their first

or second preference to deliver my action

plan for Greater London, build on what Boris has done.

There is nothing I want more...

You won't do that.

What would you do?

There's nothing more...

What would you do?

I know that that is a pledge that would be broken on day

one or if it wasn't, it would be devastating for London.

Would fares continue to rise under a Zac Goldsmith mayoral town hall?

I will bear down at every opportunity...

That is what Boris...

I will bear down...

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

Look, Boris Johnson told me he would bear down on fares

and they rose every year.

So, look, it is a simple question.

Will, under the TfL plan at the moment, fares are scheduled

to rise every year by RPI plus 1%.

Is that what would happen?

I can't make a pledge on fares.

I know...

So they will rise?

I would love to make that pledge.

You have said that.

I am saying, will fares rise?

Let me explain.

If you take 1.9 billion out of the budget, London

grinds to a stand-still.

I understand that.

There is a huge question over whether we can afford...

It is a simple question that the people voting...

Would we take it that fares will rise 3% a year

if you are mayor?

I think 17% is back of the fag packet stuff.

It is your business plan.

People will know who's answering the questions.

Londoners deserve better.

Sian Berry?

Neither of their fare plans are good enough.

Sadiq will impose austerity on Transport for London,

he will threaten the investment.

Zac has nothing to offer people.

What would you offer?

I would bring down all the fares in outer London because I have met

too many people who have been forced to move further out

because of high rents, who are crippled by

increasing transport costs.

Have you costed that?

I want to flatten the fares so...

Have you costed that?

I have.

I will take 10% off the fare income...

I'm asking you how much it will cost?

It will cost 10% of the fare income.

So that's about ?400...

It could be over ?650 million?

?700 million...

And where will you get that from?

We need to sort out air pollution and congestion in this city

and we need a new system of congestion charging that is smart

and fair, charges you for how polluting your car is,

how far you drive, what type of road you are on.

How much will it go up by?

It wouldn't be the congestion charge as we know it,

it would be a smarter system.

It would be more?

It would bring our air pollution within legal limits.

John Whittle?

How would you solve the fares problem?

It's Peter...

I am sorry, Peter Whittle.

How would you solve the fares problem?

The fact is, it's a general infrastructure problem,

as opposed to fares.

I would say there are three things.

Shocking waste and bloated salaries at TfL, which we would cut.

Some of these people are on upwards of ?500,000 to a ?1 million.

No-one should earn more than the Prime Minister.

You are running out of time.

We could campaign to cancel HS2, ?80 billion, and we do not need

garden bridges or Emirates cable cars, these vanity projects

which cost so much money.

Right.

We need to put it...

Caroline Pidgeon, the final word?

He doesn't care, and his plans don't stack up.

Imagine you are a nurse or a cleaner and you go in really

early in the morning and you spend your first

few hours trying to pay for your fare to get to work.

That is why we will bring in half price fares

by half-seven in the morning.

If you use the Tube and DLR...

So get up early and travel more cheaply.

Very well.

You will get half price fares as well...

I get up at 6.00 every morning, so I look forward to benefitting...

They are still talking, but that is all the time we have.

If you want to have your say, you can call into BBC Radio London

right now.

Duncan Barkes is standing by to take your calls.

From everybody here, goodnight.

APPLAUSE