BBC Scotland: The Social Debate

Hello and welcome to BBC HQ in Glasgow.

For the next hour or so we're going to be talking about the election.

If the polls are to be believed, the votes of young people could be

crucial in deciding who will be in Parliament and in Government

We've got politicians from the main parties waiting here.

We've also got a live studio audience, who I think

But this is also about you guys on social media and throughout

the debate we want to know what you think.

Join in on Facebook, or tweet us if you agree,

disagree or have something you want to say about what's going on here.

Rachel Coburn is going to be watching social media.

So I'll be keeping an eye on what you guys

If you want to comment as we go, you can do.

The hashtag is BBC the social debate.

Has something really got on your nerves?

This is all about the election issues that matter to you.

So get involved and we'll put some of your comments to the politicians.

I should also mention that this programme is being shown again

on BBC Two, just after midnight, so if that's where you're watching,

I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to use your comments.

If you are watching this at midnight, please ignore my tweets

because it's been a long week and I'll be in the pub.

Right, to the panel - the people who're going to be

answering your questions and, hopefully, getting quite a grilling

Kirstene Hair from the Conservatives.

Pam Duncan from the Labour Party and from the Lib Dems, Kris Chapman.

Right, we've put this debate together with our friends

from The Social and some of their contributors have been sending

in video clips with their thoughts on the election and a question.

My name is Rolain, I work with young people and this is why

I care about the number of young voters dropping.

If the older generation are the only people voting,

this means young people's views aren't being heard.

The young people are the ones who are having their future decided

for them and they will be the ones who might suffer.

It's important to have a voice and to be heard in these critical

I think it's worrying if young people think that the answer

is to disengage and give up their right to help make things

change, when others fought so hard to create a democracy.

Currently in the UK it should worry politicians that their future

workforce and community is showing a loss of trust and faith in them,

My question is, what are you going to do to engage young people

What are you going to do to engage more young people in politics?

Stewart McDonald, from the SNP, let's start with you.

Well, I think the main thing is not to patronise young people.

I know that some young people wince at the thought

of being compartmentalised as a young voter.

But, you know, I've been an MP for the last two years and I've been

getting around lots of youth groups in my constituency, one

in particular that's really active on the streets,

as opposed to sitting in a youth complex, and chatting to folk

I find some of the toughest questions and most interesting

conversations I have are often with young voters themselves.

Quite often people think it's all about student policies, relating

Obviously, that does tend to dominate, but people

They want to talk about issues like Trident and issues

like the refugee crisis that we face.

My experience is that young folk are generally quite well tapped

into the issues in a way that perhaps older generations aren't.

Perhaps, actually, they're a bit more compartmentalised

I think young people tend to be broad and open minded on the issues

and the more time we spend engaging them, the better because we know

they have historically low turnouts and the people who turn up

are the ones who get what they want at the end of the day.

I mean that turnout issue is important, isn't it?

Overall, at the last election, it was 66%, two-thirds

Young people, 18-24, if my notes are right, 43%.

Kirstene, if you believe the same polls, young people are more likely

to vote Labour or SNP than they are Conservatives.

Do you think your party is offering much to young people or is it aimed

I'm 27, this is the second time that I've stood for the party and I think

that it's really important that you really engage with young people.

Through standing, a number of young people have got engaged,

not only in campaigning, but within the party.

There's a lot more young people than I've seen in the past,

even in the past kind of five years, there's much more young

I think that's up to us as representatives to ensure

There's a number of platforms by which we can do that.

The traditional methods, by going out and speaking

Equally, I think, we need to engage through social media.

I've had huge volumes of young people engaging with me

Campaigning is not just a single platform now,

I think that you need to go out to a number of different areas

to ensure that you're spreading your message to the widest

Kirstene, what about reducing the voting age?

So in the referendum you could vote, 16-17.

Scottish elections you can vote when you're 16 and 17.

But your party nationally, UK-wide at least, doesn't support

Well, Ruth Davidson is lobbying her colleagues down south of the border

because she strongly believes that 16 and 17-year-olds should attain

the vote and she will continue to fight that case.

I understand that 16 and 17-year-olds are not

voting in this election, but all I can say is that we stand

by the decision that they should going forward and Ruth Davidson

Someone in the audience had a point they wanted to make, I think.

Yes, I've actually seen quite a lot of activity through social media

from the Labour Party and the SNP encouraging people

However, I haven't seen that same push from the Conservatives

and I was wondering why that would be?

Can I maybe suggest why that might be?

I think it's because the Labour Party has a lot of policies that

The manifesto we have put forward for this election

is one that is a manifesto for young people.

So I've been lucky enough, I lived under and went to school

and to university under a Labour Government.

I had the opportunities that meant I could go to a university.

I had opportunities that meant I could get a job

and that I would be able to contribute to society.

It's those things that keep engaging young people in.

When we've got policies, like a ?10 minimum wage.

When we've got policies, like a cap on rent.

When we've got policies that will help young people

get into education - be that further education

or higher education - and jobs that will give them money

That's when we'll engage young people.

I think that we've got something to be proud of,

which is why I believe you've seen a lot more from the Labour Party

on social media and on other forms of media around what we'll do

You've made quite a big thing about wanting to get

rid of tuition fees, but you guys brought them

Yes, but also in Scotland we abolished them.

So we don't have tuition fees in Scotland.

In fact what's happening now, if you look at the amount

of student debt in Scotland, it's gone up since the SNP

We've also seen that widening access for education

in higher education has completely gone down.

So we're now seeing students from our poorest communities unable

to get to university in Scotland in ways that they were in the past.

That's because the bursaries have been taken away and it's

because people don't have enough money in their pockets to do it.

A Labour Government would change that.

I should mention that education is devolved,

so it's a Scottish Government thing, it's not necessarily one

of the issues that - the guys you are voting

for on the 8th June - will have a big say on,

but they will have a big say on the UK side of it.

Chris, the Lib Dems have a bit of a checkered history when it

comes to talking to young people, don't they?

You guys made a big pledge in 2010 that you'd get rid of tuition fees

Does that not contribute to this idea that young people aren't that

Sorry, yeah, I totally agree we messed up back in 2010.

By trebling. That's my personal stance on that.

If I had been an MP in Westminster, I would have voted against

the trebling because that's what I said I would do

For me, it's all about engaging young people and representing them

and actually making sure that they have a voice at all levels

The youth voice is so important and, you know, I feel very strongly

with the Liberal Democrats that we've come up with a really

Through Brexit and the problems we've already identified,

coming through Brexit, we're going to be minimising

the opportunity for so many young people to really kind of access

opportunities that they currently have.

It's one of the big things that we as the Liberal Democrats

But also in Scotland, as identified already,

during the Lib-Lab Coalition of the first two Scottish

parliaments, we abolished tuition fees in the Scottish Parliament

and Scotland which enables then, as I've already said,

our young people, our next generation, our future

generations to actually access education for free.

Our most powerful tool in society are our next generations.

That's the platform that the Liberal Democrats

What do you guys think of how politicians engage with you?

Is anyone with a strong opinion on what needs to change to get more

Essentially, I mean I'm done - I don't know about young

Essentially, I feel that the representation within both

parliaments for young people, if you're talking to young people,

then the best way to be able to get an interaction with them

is if you're talking to somebody who can associate

So when you have upwards of 40, upwards of 50 majority members

of parliament then when you're being talked to about these sort

of questions then it's all about, how it was in my generation,

how it was in that generation, but the generation that's currently

there, that's currently coming up, have such individual needs that

I don't think they can be addressed properly without having the kind

of representation in parliament for the age range.

In two seconds then we'll come to the youngest man

in the Scottish Parliament, Ross Greer.

Just quickly though, Rach, what's going on on the internet?

So we're getting quite a few comments trhough on Facebook,

both from young voters and about young voters.

Kev, thank you for your comment said...

You're the youngest man in the Scottish Parliament,

what about that idea - sorry, what was your name,

Jack brought it up there, to really engage with young people.

You need to see something that's more like the society

I mean, when I was elected last year, I was the youngest member

of the Scottish Parliament, I was 21 when I was elected.

There were some people were saying - how can you possibly be

a politician at age, you don't have enough

life experience to know what you're talking about.

But our parliaments are supposed to represent all of society.

They're not doing that if they're full of white men,

What I really can't stand about what some commentators,

who also tend to be white men over the age of 50 say is that young

people, they're just apathetic, they don't really care.

An entire generation feels really alienated from a political system

We're going to be the first generation for a long time that's

worse off on average than our parents.

People aren't going to be able to afford to buy their own home.

There are not the jobs and opportunities there for them.

The economy they're going into is one of zero-hours contracts,

It's not they don't care about politics, it's the political

That's why, for the Greens, we've always said it's

We need a different kind of economy that actually supports people.

At the moment, the goal of the economy is to support a tiny

number of people at the top and the rest of us are just supposed

That's not what our generation want or what we need.

I think Jack's absolutely right, we need more young people

in parliament, in every parliament and in our council

Let's talk about some of those transformational

things you want to see and what you all think of it.

Now our second question comes from the audience here at PQ.

Jack Miller, what's your question, you're back again.

In light of the horrific attack on the Manchester Arena last week,

how can any of the major parties justify the proportion

of defence spending on the Trident Nuclear Programme?

You are standing on a manifesto that says Labour will support

the renewal of Trident, but Scottish Labour opposes it.

We are standing on the manifesto that says we will support

the renewal of Trident but we will also lead the world

through the UN and through other countries to be rid of nuclear power

We don't just want to get rid of it from Scotland, like the SNP do,

we actually want to rid the whole of the world from nuclear power,

Do you think that too much money of the defence budget is being spent

on Trident or are you quite relaxed with that?

What we have said is we will retain the defence budget

to what it is just now because we need to be able

to put our troops in the situation where they have got what they need

in order to be able to keep our country safe.

We have been quite clear about that in our manifesto and we have

said we will continue to spend that amount.

But Jack's point, tell me if I am wrong, Jack,

but I get the impression it is also about where we are spending money,

so what good is Trident when a nutcase can come

into a concert and blow himself up with a nail bomb?

You are absolutely right and actually politics is very much

about choices and it is important that at this election

What I think the Labour government, yes, hopefully, what I think

the Labour manifesto has put forward is that we are willing to make

the brave choices that are needed, so we have said that we will look

at raising the ?48 billion worth of money that we need in order to be

able to transform society so we can put more money in people's

pockets so that we can invest in workers' rights,

so that we can build more houses, so that we can have an NHS

that is fit for purpose, so we have said we will do

all of those things in a way that means we will avoid borrowing

the extra money and I think the manifesto we have put forward

My phone is lighting up because I think a lot

of people at home are sending in tweets about that.

Keep them coming, but just before we go to the rest of the panel,

That is twice you have mentioned the SNP when you are talking

about your own party manifesto, you are using them as a comparison.

Why can you not just answer the question

Yes, I think I did answer the question but the reason I am

saying that is because we are living in Scotland just now and the SNP

are in government and the SNP are quite happy to talk left as much

as they like but when they actually have to take decisions in Scotland

So actually it is quite relevant, it is important the people

of Scotland understand the problems they are seeing in the NHS,

the problems they are seeing in their education services,

they are because of political choices being made at Holyrood.

Before we go to off topic, Stewart, the SNP talk a lot

A couple of weeks ago I was in Helensburgh,

that is where Faslane and Coulport, the big nuclear bases, are.

The economy there, most people say, is dependent on Faslane,

it is dependent on the 7000 plus troops who are stationed there.

They are stationed there solely at the moment because of Trident.

No, we have been quite clear that what we think the priority should be

and the pretext of your question was in light of events like

Manchester, it was we should invest in conventional defence forces.

Who on earth is it we are going to use Trident against?

There was one thing I would pick up on what Pam said there.

She described renewal of Trident as a brave choice.

I voted against the renewal of Trident in the last parliament.

Because you guys were also against, for example, giving the police

and the security services more power to look at what people are posting

on social media and sharing with their friends which some people

argue could help target people who will go on to commit atrocities

There is a balance to be struck in terms of the powers the police

I am sure lots of us have got things on our phones

and we would be mortified if MI5 were looking at them.

However, what I think should happen is that they should

have extra money spent on these services, absolutely.

I think there is broad agreement on that across

But what this comes to is the threats we face now

are different from when we brought Trident in in the first place.

Is Trident an acceptable way to spend our money

I think that Trident is working for 24 hours a day,

seven days a week, 365 days a year, and I think we would become very

The UK Conservative manifesto outlines that we would commit

to increase our spending in line with Nato to at least 2%

of our GDP and we would have the defence budget.

I think that is incredibly important in an increasingly uncertain world.

And the other part of your question was around the Manchester attacks

and I think we obviously take the counterterrorism side of things

very seriously as well and that is why we have secured that

budget since 2010 and in 2015 we have ensured there are 1900 more

officers throughout MI5, MI6 and GCHQ.

I think there are two sides to it, but I fundamentally do support

the renewal of Trident and, as you mentioned earlier, I think

the jobs are incredibly important, it is just over 7000 just now,

and that will go up to just over 8000 in a few years' time so I do

believe it is important to invest in our military as we go forward.

There are lots of hands up in the audience, but just before

we come to you guys, Rachel, what is being said online?

There is a whole other debate going on in our Facebook comments

How can the Conservatives justify opening a blank cheque book

for Trident when there is an NHS in crisis, people losing their jobs,

disability cuts, it just doesn't make sense?

We will come back to that in two seconds.

It was the same point as the gentleman in front made apart

from we have got families in the whole of the UK that

are using food banks and you are using it to renew

Trident, Labour and the Tories, which I think

I was just going to say something along a similar thread but I do just

wonder how we can find the budget to use something that we can never

use, to invest in something we can never use essentially,

but we can't find money to pay child tax credits for a third

or subsequent child unless that child was born of rape.

So I would really just love to see how you justify that.

But in an uncertain world where you have got people

who you like to criticise like Donald Trump who have their

fingers on the nuclear button, people like North Korea,

is it not useful to have a device like that when they have got it?

For a start the idea that you would have it

means you would have to contemplate using it.

Theresa May is exceptionally proud of the fact that she is prepared

I don't think you are fit to lead any country anywhere in the world

if you are willing to annihilate millions of innocent people

That does not make you fit to rule, not at all.

And this idea that Kirstene mentioned, it keeps us safe 24/7.

Who are we safer from compared than Sweden or Portugal or Spain?

All these other countries, there are less than a dozen

countries in the world that have nuclear arsenals.

I will go back on the point that I mentioned earlier.

There is a real reason to have that and members of the audience

are saying there are other areas we should be spending the money on.

We have a finite amount of money and each party decides differently

how they are going to spend that money and I strongly believe that

defence and the defence budget is an area which is incredibly

I think that if we were to reduce that, I think we would

We live in an increasingly uncertain world and I will stand by that

decision, that we do increase the budget in line with 2%

of our GDP and I think that is for the best interest

It would be safer to not sell weapons to Saudi Arabia,

Chris, is your party's policy still to have Trident

It is multilateral, so it is a progressive

reduction of nuclear weapons, so I totally agree with the point,

and the ultimate aim is a nuclear free UK,

We need to reprioritise the funding we get from the reduction

of nuclear spending on Trident into more conventional weapons.

We have troops going into service right now

buying their own equipment, buying their own flak jackets,

buying their own boots and gear out of their own pockets.

These are not being provided by the government.

We have a duty on our troops to ensure that when they go

into combat, if we choose, to put them in that position

in the first place, that we actually provide them

But a wider point to your question, Jack, that you were mentioning

about the spend, and Ross has just touched on that point,

right now we are selling arms to Saudi Arabia which is an atrocity

The Liberal Democrat position on our defence spending

is we would cut that trade deal straightaway and say no,

anyone that has got a dubious human rights record we would not sell arms

Lots of strong opinions on that but we have to move

on because we have got a lot still to discuss.

Our next question comes via a video clip from Tomiwa, another

Homelessness doesn't necessarily mean sleeping on the

streets, it can be a lot more complicated than that.

It means not having a stable or permanent home,

so if you are sofa surfing from friend to friend, then you are

I am 22 and I have always been privileged enough to know that

no matter what, I have a home to go to, but according to Scottish

government data, 6652 young people, that 18-24 -year-old, were homeless

government data, 6652 young people, that's 18-24

This year changes in Universal Credit regulations meant

that it became increasingly difficult for 18-21-year-olds to

claim housing benefit to help them with their rent.

A number of homeless charities stated that these

changes would be incredibly detrimental to young people.

So my question is, how are you going to

help prevent young people from becoming homeless?

Right, forgive me for a minute, I am going to go with some stats

as well because housing is a complicated issue.

A lot of housing is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, things

Other elements of what Tomiwa was speaking about there,

things like welfare and benefits payments, are partly

Around 17,000 people were looking for help because of homelessness

in six months last year here in Scotland.

That is slightly down, but it is up for young people, so,

Stewart, the SNP government, is it doing enough on all of this?

What else does it need to do to get those numbers down?

Those figures horrify me completely and I myself have done some work

looking at the particular issue of homelessness amongst young

LGBT people which is staggering in itself as well.

You know, the complexity of this, as you say, some of the power

on housing policy itself, lies with the Scottish Parliament

but there is a whole chunk of it which can help keep people out

of homelessness which lies with Westminster.

The Scottish Parliament has the ability to prop up anything.

Some of the steps we have taken, for example, there is no

The issue that was mentioned in the question about housing

benefit for young people, we have stepped up and paid

We spend about ?100 million a year of Scottish government money

I have spent the last two years at Westminster trying to get every

single welfare power out of the hands of Theresa May

and David Mundell and bring them back to Scotland.

I will do that for the next five years if I am back in.

I think the complexity of this, and this isn't me trying

to get off the hook, is that there is one hand

We need better working relationships between the government on a UK

level, a Scottish level and local councils who are actually on the

That may be the case, but the number of houses being built

In part that was due to the housing crash in 2007,

That is your party who have responsibility for that.

We are building more houses than we have ever built at any time,

but do I want to see it faster, do I want to see it better?

Do you accept you are not doing enough?

But the idea we are sitting here going, all these people

are homeless and we are just going to ignore that,

To be fair I wouldn't accuse any of my political

We all have different ideas now how to combat this.

I think the fact we have now got new council administrations all over

Scotland, many of them forcing parties to work together,

and it's councils who deal with this on the front line,

my hope is we can start to see progress and get those numbers down.

Ross, who do you think needs to do more?

Is it the Scottish Government, the UK Government, or is it both?

It is definitely both and it is local councils.

The problem with house-building in the UK for decades now is that it

has been the entirely wrong type of housing we have been building.

What use is it to a young first-time buyer if we are building three

We have got a private rental sector which is full of exploitation.

We desperately need rent controls, we need landlords to be regulated

because they are exploiting young people in particular.

It is quite clear with a Conservative government

at Westminster they are going to do everything possible

to make life as hard as possible for young people.

That is why they cut housing benefit.

Mhairi Black, the youngest MP, put it very well saying

she was the only 20-year-old in the country that George Osborne

was willing to help get a house because as an MP she gets expenses

The Conservatives are deeply hostile towards young

Stuart mentioned LGBT young people in particular.

There is a huge inequalities issue here because we still have

unfortunately, particularly trans-young people, if they are not

accepted by their family, they are not safe at home

and they have to leave, but the Conservative government

are not willing to support them to get their own house.

We need to build more houses in Scotland,

the Scottish Government can do that, councils in Scotland can do it.

But Stewart was right, we currently spend tens of millions,

over ?100 million a year of Scottish government budget just

mitigating the worst of what the Tories do at Westminster.

We could instead be spending that ?100 million a year buying

That is what we could be doing if we had these

Pam Duncan, what is the Labour Party offering?

One of the things that came up when we were chatting about this

earlier was the number of home owners aged 16 to 34 in Scotland

The number of people in private rent has gone up.

Is that OK and if not, what are you going to do to change it?

No, it is absolutely not OK because we know that when people

are living in private, rented accommodation they are also

living under unscrupulous landlords and their rent increases are rising

at a rate that they cannot afford to pay.

We have said we will cap rents for those who are renting houses.

Because we will not allow them to increase them by too much over

What we have said is we will say actually, you are not allowed

to raise it above this so people have enough money to live on.

We will say you have to have enough money to live on.

We will also put more money in people's pockets.

As I have said previously we will give people a ?10 living wage,

we will also end zero hours contracts so people will have more

More importantly we will build houses.

We will build more houses for social rent and have been built

Our whole manifesto is costed as you know.

It is easy to say we will build more houses, I am just wondering how.

It is, well, we have said we will tax the richest

and we will also increase corporation tax so those are just

We have said we will build 45,000 homes for social rent.

You were talking about inequalities, in Scotland there are so many

disabled people who are homeless because we are not

Numbers and numbers of disabled people's organisations have gone

to the Scottish Government and said, you need to set a target.

You need to say that whenever you are building

new homes in Scotland, you have to be building

a certain number, like 10%, of accessible standards.

Actually what we need in Scotland is more homes,

more affordable homes, more accessible homes and more money

The Labour manifesto sets out how we will do that.

Just to build onto that moving on from Westminster

and the Scottish Parliament, I am a local councillor and one

of the things we have identified is that actually

Once you are identifying as homeless, what steps do you take?

How do you actually access the homelessness services?

That needs to be massively improved because there

When I am not a counsellor, I am a youth worker,

so I have dealt with this now on both sides of the table

where communities need to come together and actually

Because it is all very well saying we will put more money in pockets

and we will build more houses which is absolutely something

we must be doing but we also need to actually help the people

on the ground at the end of the day, the ones that are being victimised

by the circumstances in which they find themselves in.

That is the challenge, we as local authorities working

with the different parliaments along with third sector organisations need

to budget effectively partnered together to ensure we do not let

Kirstene, one of the things that Tomiwa brought up

The amount of money you can claim has been capped by your party

you get ?384 a week, if you are a single adult,

We have been travelling around Scotland and that is one

of the things people have been flagging up as leading to more

people using food banks and more people becoming homeless.

Would you if you were an MP support the benefits cap?

I think it's a very fine balance and it's every political party

takes a different stance on this, but I think you need to make sure

that - I absolutely fundamentally agree with the welfare system and it

should absolutely be there to help the most vulnerable in our society

and those that are not able to work, but equally I think

You know the best route out of poverty is to ensure that

That's why we've increased the national living

to ?7.50 and increased the personal allowance up up to ?12,500.

That first ?12,500 that you earn is tax-free so you have more money

I also think it's important, when we're talking earlier

issues I want to mention, one is in the UK manifesto we have ensured

on the standard variable energy tariffs because we think it's

unjustified rises that are not fair on people who are working

So, I think, yes, you need to look out for the most

That's exactly what the welfare state is there to do.

Equally, you need to ensure that those who are out working

essentially that it pays to work because that is the best way

to ensure that young people, people of any age essentially,

come out of poverty and into the workplace.

You make work pay by raising wages, not by cutting the benefits

that disabled people and young people need.

It's making vulnerable people suffer.

Right, this issue of homelessness and housing is one

Rachel, what are people saying online?

Loads of you on social media are chipping into the housing debate.

On the issue of homelessness Connor on Facebook said...

Allen, on Facebook, on the issues of housing as well...

Finally, Leya on Twitter has told us to...

Thank you very much for your comments, keep them coming.

We will come back on that in a minute because that's to do

with the amount of money you paid at the end of a course rather

I want to hear from some of the audience here.

So you said about the Conservatives wanting to protect the most

I want to go back to a point you made.

People having to prove they were raped.

Disabled people having to tell someone - oh, yeah,

I wanted to kill myself before, or I haven't.

You know, you've got deaf people, I am a deaf person myself,

having to act more deaf than they are because, you know,

if you can dress yourself, feed yourself, if you can do this,

this and this, you're not actually qualified to get personal

There's people who need to travel, you know, long distances to go

to hospital to get seen for hearing aids or just

for hearing tests, for speech and language therapy.

Which is actually decreasing the amount of access

There's so much that deaf people need to do,

They're getting penalised for being born deaf,

for being born and having to use a wheelchair or for having

to have a seizure or anything in the first few days

of their birth which means now they're being punished.

Are the bars being set too high for people to prove

that they qualify for benefits or for exemptions?

With regards to the disability which was the focus

I think that what that is referring to is probably the transition

Yes, there have been areas where by people have perhaps,

you know, there have been areas where people have essentially been

able to appeal their cases and a number of appeals that

That was the transition from one system to the other.

We are absolutely looking out for the most vulnerable in society.

I had disability living allowance since I was 16 years old.

Last month I was reassessed for that.

Are you suggesting for one minute that suddenly we're cured?

You're literally create a system in society where disabled people

One day you turn up at a job interview and try and prove

The next day you have to turn up at your PIP assessment and say that

actually you're so disabled you really need the support

for the money that they're going to give you.

To pretend, by any stretch of the imagination, that you're

protected vulnerable people and as a result of the way

in which the transition, a transition that never needed

It's because of that that's causing this.

Well, you know, the system is put in there.

The thing is with these kind of systems is that they are -

it's not that they are just put in place, but they are monitored.

Going back to what you also brought up, the two Child Tax Credit policy

We are not just going to say it's a new policy and leave it as it is.

We will say that policy needs monitored, if there are issues

The DWP will ensure that is filtered back -

The idea at the moment if you have two kids you get child benefit.

If you have a third, under new rules, you don't.

There has been a row over what happens if the third child

Some people think that it is too much to ask somebody to go

Other people argue it's an exemption and therefore it's a good thing

because it's giving people away out on that.

It's important all of us would hope absolutely condemn the rape clause.

The broader picture is the family cap. The cap on child tax credits.

You didn't raise the living wage, you rebranded the minimum wage.

Secondly, when it comes to this idea that we're going to make work pay.

Child tax credits are claimed... They are in work benefits. They are

for people who were already working. I was - I'm the fourth child when we

were kids my dad walked out and at that point my mum, as a single mum

shall he disappeared for seven years. As a single mum she looked

after four of us. Our older siblings would have been eligible for child

tax credits me and my other sister wouldn't have been. How are we not

included in your idea of vulnerable people. The system you say is there

to look after vulnerable people. It's not looking after vulnerable

people, it's making them more vulnerable.

APPLAUSE. I sense this debate could go on for a long time we are short

of time we will continue it all on Twitter and Facebook and everywhere

else. Time for our next question,

this one comes from Claire My question is about access

for young people to employment. In my opinion it is getting harder

for young people to find employment, for both graduates

and school leavers. Many jobs seem to ask for years

of experience that it's impossible Do each of the politicians at this

debate agree that this is an issue and what would each party do

to tackle this growing problem? Claire, is that something you have

found to be a problem? Not me personally,

but people that I know, people very close to me have

found this an issue. You can apply for jobs days

on end and you are going You have got a good degree,

you have worked hard and you are looking

for a job and everyone says - you don't

have access to these benefits because they are trying to

incentivise people to get into work, but for people with the best will in

the world who want to get into work What would you do to

solve that problem? It exemplifies when you start going

into rural Scotland where we have a massive brain drain of our young

people right now who are leaving their rural towns that they may have

grown up and lived in and it has been so much part of

their life for so long because there just isn't

work out there because of a whole raft of reasons,

from infrastructure, transport to broadband capacity.

They are now moving into the urban areas.

Then you end up with this concentration of 200 people applying

I certainly experienced it when I graduated in 2010.

The minefield that was the job market of

because I needed to pay the rent and I needed to do something

, so I just took anything and build from there.

It is demoralising and we have to do more.

It is investment in our infrastructure, so

if we can tackle the rural bring the drain that

I have already mentioned, increasing our transport links,

increasing the internet capacity of our rural areas, we can then

encourage the entrepreneurial spirit of our young people and allow

businesses to move out of the urban areas and

into the rural areas, but

right now there is not the capacity to do that and then link into

education and supporting university graduates, college graduates,

modern apprenticeships and entrepreneurial

spirit, to really appreciate the communities that they have got.

Stats suggest that the vast majority, about 95% of

people who come out of Scottish universities either get a job or go

The average wage is said to be about ?22,000.

Ross, do you think this is a problem?

It absolutely is a problem and there are two things the Greens

One is the Scottish Government can do and one the UK

The first one is what we call Scotland guarantee.

If you are a young person in Edinburgh

leaving school, you are guaranteed either further education, a job or

There is no reason we cannot extend the Edinburgh

guaranteed to all of Scotland, to have the Scottish Government support

It allows employers to take on things

like apprentices that they might otherwise struggled to do.

If you are a small employer it is a huge HR

burden to get an apprenticeship arranged.

Whereas if you have the government and local council

supporting you that is an opportunity for a young person and

We want to extend the Scotland guarantee.

But you are also right about the quality of jobs.

A huge number of graduates, whether or

not you graduate at all, a huge number of young people are going

into zero hours jobs or getting paid very poorly, they are being

We need to create high-quality, long-lasting

We have got an industrial strategy called Jobs In The New

Economy, it would create just over 200,000

Scotland, and its focus would be on transitioning as away from an

economy that is largely dependent on oil and gas

to the new industries of

We were talking about the house building that we need

A house-building programme not only would solve the

housing crisis, it would also create a huge number of jobs and

apprenticeships, so the Greens have got a strategy for that and it would

If you combine that with a Scotland guarantee for young people, that is

creating a whole generation of young people who have decent job

opportunities for the rest of their life.

You can help people get out of poverty by educating them. We have

seen strikes and HE are cutting jobs because they can't afford to keep

going as they have been. What are the parties going to do to help the

students who want to get out of poverty, but can't because there are

not the HE places there and there is a lack of funding from the Scottish

Government to help this happen. This is an issue devolved. It doesn't

directly impact in this election. It's an important one. The SNP are

in development, are they doing enough for the sector?

I would love us to be able to do more, but the whole crux of this

question, which is a phrase that Ross used, is the industries of the

future. I look at what is happening in countries like Estonia and we are

so far behind in terms of having a new digital economy and if we do not

scale up for that and get an industrial strategy to deal with

that soon, you will not get the opportunities that the young people

you are mentioning are going to want. But there is another topic I

need to mention. We are sitting here in Glasgow and we have 16 job

centres to help people find work. They are cutting job centres by 20%

across the UK and they want to cut them by 15% in Glasgow, reducing

them in some of the tourist areas from 16 down to eight. That needs to

be challenged not just in Glasgow, but right across Scotland as well.

There are things to do around the minimum wage. We want to see it go

up to ?10.65 by the end of the next Parliament. We need to do more in

tackling rogue employers. What would that minimum wage do help people who

cannot find jobs in the first place? Once they get those jobs it gives

them a better minimum wage. I did not go to university, I have not got

a degree, so you can imagine how depressing it was for me to find a

job. Politics was the only one they would have me in. I understand it is

a struggle and it comes back to having a proper industrial strategy

that will deliver. Kirstene, what are the Conservatives offering

people like Claire and her friends when it comes to jobs? I did

politics degree as well. Did I. There you go. Up in Aberdeen.

Further education needs to be taken as a whole and we need to be sure it

is not a one size fits all approach. If you want to go to university, you

could do that, but we equally do not need to cut college places and we

need to put more money into that and apprenticeships are important. If

people want to leave school at 16 and go into the workplace

straightaway, they can learn that trade as they go. That area has

decreased over the years and we have less apprenticeships here compared

to south of the border. Regarding the minimum wage, it is getting that

balance between getting a minimum wage that helps people in work, but

I have spoken to a number of small businesses and they would love to

employ more people and get more people into their businesses at an

earlier stage. But if the minimum wage is too high, they cannot afford

that. It is getting the balance right. When you are talking about

the minimum wage and small businesses, they have then got

national insurance contributions and pensions. One of your policies is to

increase the national living wage, as you call it, can you afford it?

Yes. We had this argument when Labour brought in the minimum wage

in the last government and people said businesses would crumble, it

did not happen. What Labour would do for young people and other people to

get jobs is we would create a Scottish investment bank that would

bring ?20 billion of funding to Scotland to start up local

enterprises. We would do that with a focus on the industries that we need

in the future. Infrastructure, broadband, electronics and stem

subjects as well. There is a huge reduction in the number of people

taking stem subjects compare to the rest of the UK. We will look at

putting more money into education, not putting unqualified teachers

into schools. We will put more money into schools and we will have more

teachers so children can leave school with the education they need

for the jobs of the future. That is the view here. What are people

saying online? The social media debate on jobs rages on.

There is still a while to get your comments in, so please keep them

coming to us. The hash tag is BBC the social debate. Were you

persuaded by any of that? Not really to be honest. I am thinking in the

short term people are completely demoralised. They have so much

potential and they have so much they want to do. These are great ideas

for the future, but we need something to happen now. All these

young people are thinking where is my future? I am talking about school

leavers and everyone else, it is the same across the board. There will be

plenty more time to discuss this online. I am sure you will be

I am sure you will be chipping in as well.

Our next question comes via video clip from another

Brexit has created a lot of uncertainty and worry among young

people in the UK as the media focuses on big business and

immigration aspects, but we did not hear too much about the impact it

would have on our daily lives as UK citizens are home-grown

internationals. Young people have a hard time with the minimum wage or a

zero hour contracts. It is impossible to get on the housing

ladder as a young person. After Brexit our EU rights will be

replaced by a bill of rights. I am concerned this will make matters

even worse, used to further provide zero hours contracts, taking away

our rights to hold peaceful protests. Is there anyway we can

keep the EU human rights and, or, maybe make a more friendly and

workable Scottish bill of rights that can keep these human rights we

hold so dear. Kirstene, your party wanted to get rid of the Human

Rights Act and replace it with a bill of rights. What is the

situation at the moment? That is parked for now. That was absolutely

the policy before and very much it is still the case. When we leave

Brexit there are complex negotiations that will go on and a

number of issues were brought up in that BT and they will be on a number

of people's minds as well. There are a lot of areas, trade agreements,

freedom of movement, all these aspects will be at the forefront of

these negotiations and they will be reciprocal. Where people have

concerns like EU nationals living in this country and they might have

rights taken away from them, we will work to ensure those are kept

because there are Brits living abroad and it is a reciprocal

agreement. There are a number of areas of Brexit that people are

concerned about, but in terms of free trade and movement of people

and security, there are a lot of issues whereby they need us as much

as we need them. There will be a lot of negotiation, but it will be

reciprocal. Kris, you were saying why leave? Exactly. I do not

understand where Theresa May stands on anything she says on Brexit. Talk

about a week and wobbly. Where does your party is down? Do you want to

stay in the EU? Exactly. Tim Farron once a referendum on the outcome.

The basis of that argument is right now we have no idea what we are

heading towards. The negotiations have not taken place. We do not know

what deal is on the table and work that will put us, the citizens. We

need those negotiations to take place for those facts and figures

and information. Remember the ?350 million on the side of the bus?

Where is that? That is gone. Let's give you guys a referendum on the

actual terms of leaving and if you want to, if not we will stay part of

the EU. There are a lot of hands up. Back row in the middle, yourself. To

come back on what you said about EU citizens. My girlfriend is from

Norway and she lives over here and she is given no guarantee whatsoever

that she will be able to stay here. After the referendum she was sent a

letter by the local MP, an SNP MP, saying we are not sure we can

guarantee your position, but we will hopefully have an answer soon. Still

no answer and that is a year after the referendum. I am putting a brave

face on it saying, things will work out, but I do not know that. To come

back to the question. The UK Government is being held to account

on things like air quality. If this bill did not exist, the government

would not be held to account at all. You may disagree with laws that

exist, but they are there purely for our benefit to make sure our

government do what they should be doing at all times. Ross, let's come

in on that. Is there a realistic possibility at the end of this that

no one's rights will be guaranteed? Absolutely. What makes you think

that? A deal has not been done. If it is a Conservative government

after this election that will see us through Brexit, they are the last

people I see as wanting to protect my rights. Theresa May has said if

she is back in government one of the first things she wants to do is get

a deal on the rights of EU citizens here and a reciprocal deal for Brits

abroad. Dell she also said she did not want to see an election. She had

an opportunity. The status of EU citizens and other EU citizens, that

did not have to be an opportunity for negotiation. Theresa May could

have turned around the day she took office and said, this is off the

table. If you are an EU citizen living here or Brits living in

Europe, you are free to stay here, but she did not do that. She put

people's lives on the negotiating table and that is disgraceful. We

have rights that have been hard fought for. You mention

air-quality... We are running short on time. Pam, your party wanted to

guarantee the rights of EU citizens here, but you are not going to wait

until you get the reciprocal deal. Brits abroad could be sold out by

then. We are not using them as pawns like the Conservative government. We

want a deal that puts human rights right at the centre of what will

happen. As someone who has been a human rights activist for most of my

life, I passionately believe we have to protect human rights and jobs in

the negotiations. I am proud that our party has said if you are an EU

national, a you can stay here. Some of the human rights have allowed,

for example, gays to stay in the military. The idea that this will

give us more human rights is a nonsense. I recognise entirely the

situation that you mention. I know lots of people, friends, family,

boyfriends, girlfriends, and they are sick with worry over this. Ross

is right, the Prime Minister could have stood up and take on this issue

off the table. Instead we have the International Trade Secretary saying

quite openly and freely that they are pawns in the negotiations. That

is a disgrace when talking about their lives. They have done us and

on about coming here to live here amongst us and to be part of our

country. For the last time, what is being said on social media? I have

one final thought on Facebook and it is from Chris.

We are about to come off air, but the Internet is not, so keep that

debate going online. Thank you very much and thank you to all of those

of you who have been following us. Please carry on the debate on

Facebook and Twitter. We are also on the BBC website. Many thanks to the

panel and to the audience who gave them a pretty tough time. It is up

to you guys now, remember to vote next Thursday. Thank you fortune in

in. In two years' time, you will have

all memory of it beaten out of you it makes no difference whether

you watch my show or not. In two years' time, you will have

all memory of it beaten out of you by a robot foreman

in an ash factory.