03/12/2013 am.pm

Good afternoon, welcome to the programme and our weekly coverage of

questions to the First Minister. I've had a look at the Order Paper

and Carwyn Jones can expect questions on policing, business

rates and energy bills. I also expect he'll face questions over

today's news that Wales has fallen behind the rest of the UK

significantly in reading, Maths and science for the third time in the

PISA international education results. That's what I think the

politicians will be talking about - what do you want to talk about? If

you want to comment on anything on the programme or any other political

news get in touch with us. You can reach us via Twitter - we're

@walespolitics - or send us an email to [email protected]. Well, business

in the chamber is already underway so let's take a look now at today's

questions to the First Minister. The National Assembly is now in

session. Questions to the first Minister, question one. What recent

discussions have the first Minister had to policing in Wales? I have not

had any recent discussions personally. We hold regular meetings

with the Chief Constable 's and Police and Crime Commissioner 's.

Thank you. With policing devolved in Scotland and Northern Ireland, items

such as border controls and terrorism, does he agree with me

that policing should be devolved to Wales? There is a very strong case

to devolving policing to Wales. They're the only emergency service

that have not been devolved, and it makes sense as the fire service and

the ambulance service, the evidence that the Welsh government has given.

Can you confirm whether you participated in any form into the

future of policing, and specifically whether you agree with the Labour

Party recommendation on one police force in Wales? There are three

recommendations. One recommendation is one police force for Wales, I

don't think we can go for that. Thank you, I was pleased to hear

your response just a few moments ago. I was discussing with a senior

police officer in North Wales, they told us they were eager to

collaborate a lot more with the fire service but there was a feeling that

the Welsh Government did not want to see that happen because only one of

those services, namely the fire service, had been devolved. Given

your support to the devolution of policing, does not make sense --

doesn't it make sense that this would assist in that sort of

collaboration at all levels? There is collaboration now, of course.

They do communicate, emergency services are part of the resilience

to emphasise that fact. The police work very closely with us as a

government, that is why in our opinion it would be a wise move to

move to a situation where what is now happens is done formally in the

future. Will the first Minister make a statement on the Welsh

Government's priorities for the environment? The Autumn statement

set out our priorities for the environment. Will you join me in

commending the Minister for Housing and regeneration for doing the right

thing by the people, rejecting plans that would have threatened the

viability of the school, jeopardised the World Heritage Site and blighted

an entire community? As we look to the future, will you now work with

the Minister to draw upon the very important lessons from this case,

ensuring that communities never again have to ensure years of

crippling uncertainty, particularly when we are meant to protect them. I

am aware of the number of occasions the issue has been raised. She has

made her views and reviews of her constituents very clear. Given the

fact we're still in the six-week period for legal challenge on this

decision, I cannot comment on the application itself. With regard to

the planning generally, we have a planning reform Bill that is being

taken forward now, with phone -- further consideration being given.

LDP provides for a large number of housing, a lot of that housing is on

greenfield sites. How does that fit with your environmental policies? It

is for the Minister to decide what action he may or may not wish to

take with regard to any LDP. A similar question to my colleague, so

far, we have a good rating for air quality, but with more homes to be

built there, what safeguards can be put in place? I don't see how there

is necessarily a correlation between housing and air pollution. We would

expect any local authority on developing its LDP to assess the

need for housing in any particular area, and to produce an LDP that

takes into account all the planning guidance the Welsh Government has

issued. I called up on party leaders to question the first Minister.

Thank you. First Minister, today we had the disappointing news that the

PISA results have been depressingly bad again. Today's educationist

tomorrow's economy. With the figures we have seen today at the Falls and

performance, does it not make for bleak reading and a bleak future for

our economy? First of all, I have to say that even though we have seen

some improvement, the figures are disappointing overall. That cannot

be got away from. Nevertheless, we should Member that the PISA results

are, asset of tests, they are not a reflection of the education system

as a whole. I can remind members of what has been put in place since

2009, with the last set of PISA results, the National literacy and

numerous reprogram, the changes that have been made to supporting

professional development, particularly performance management

of teachers. And the development of the induction process for newly

qualified teachers. 150 trainees have been placed in secondary

schools that have been targeted as having a high percentage of pupils

living in deprived communities. We have published new leadership

standards as well and developed leadership capacity. We have

strengthened school accountability through banding and stock takes. We

have Learning Wales, the national model for regional learning, and

they complain that I don't give answers, there is no sense

complaining about it. One of the improvements has been in attendance

and behaviour. It'll take time for these measures bear full fruit. The

previous Education Minister and this one said we wish to be in the top 20

by... I think that is the longest answer I have ever had in First

Minister's Questions, and to say there has been some improvements,

whichever way you cut it, first Minister, these figures today are

depressingly bad, but depressingly familiar from a Labour first

Minister whose party has been running education here in Wales for

14 years. The previous Education Minister, the letter he put out in

2010, clearly thought the same when he's not these results cannot be

argued away or excused. He went on to say that the results cannot be

excused on the basis of socio economic status or bilingual nature

of our nation or education system. The list you gave us no doubt could

have been read at any juncture when previous PISA results have been

reported. The problem is that educationalists, students and

parents are fed up of listening to Labour's excuses. How can we

genuinely have confidence that what you outlined their in your answer

will make a difference this time around? If you listened to the

answer, I said this is what has been put in place since 2009. The second

point I would make is we have constantly said it will take time

for these measures to have an effect. But what exactly does he

quibble with in terms of what I have just read out as an answer to him?

What would he have done differently, how does he explain that his party

wants to cut education spending, and how that would help to improve these

results in the future. If he had some credibility on this point in

terms of a developed alternative, if he had some credibility in terms of

wanting to increase school spending as we are doing, we are protecting

school spending in Wales, then he might have some credibility. Added

the interesting for the chamber to understand what he disagrees with in

terms of what the government is doing and why he thinks that

education spending should be cut. I think it is quite shameful that on a

day when we have had more damning evidence of educational failure

under Labour, you cannot show any humility to the people of Wales are

dependent on education as a root out from poverty, as a route to good

jobs and developing an economy fit for the 21st-century. Are you

telling me, first Minister, that the previous education ministers before

2009. It wholly wrong and will you apologise on their behalf as the

leader of Welsh Labour, and what, when the new results come out, can

we expect will you now take control and ultimately put your reputation

on the line, but we will see the improvement we require in 2015 to

make the economic prospects of this country better? If you want, you

should reflect on your position. Can I say in response to the Leader of

the Opposition, I went to a comprehensive school. I have a stake

in the state system, that is what I am proud of. It is a shameful

reflection, that of all the prime ministers and first Minister is

there have ever been, only one has come from comprehends of, and that

is me. His party has made it worse. He sits there with his aide Tony and

Prime Minister, lecturing us about state education. He did not listen

to what I said, there is no point in whining about it. These results are

not good enough. These results are not good enough. These results have

to be improved on, reading has improved, but we still have to make

sure that there is improvement in the future. I offered him the

opportunity to comment on what we as a government are doing, he could

give no view. I offered him the opportunity to justify the appalling

cuts that he wants to impose on schools in Wales, he failed to

justify those cuts. He makes a lot of noise, but he has no substance

and no policies. We accept their responsibilities, we accept that we

must work with teachers, and with parents, in order to continue to

improve the education system in Wales. And we have seen an

improvement in GCSE results this year. That is why we will continue

to deliver for the people of Wales, even as the party opposite shout and

don't want to do anything more than cut education spending. This is --

suggest the word class war. They want to cut spending for the poorest

in society, cut spending on state schools, and that's what the Tories

stand for. We accept responsibility for these results, we have put in

place a system that will help to improve education in Wales, whereas

on the Conservative benches, we get empty rhetoric. Order, this is not a

library, far less a monastery, but there is far too much shouting going

on and not enough listening. First Minister, you're the leader of this

country, and you are failing to show leadership on this. You said that

your term of office would be all about delivery, and you told us, I

expect to see improvement in our PISA results in December. It is now

December. Today you have delivered the worst set of PISA results in

western Europe. Are you now going to take full responsibility for those

results? As I said, we do accept, as a government, but there needs to be

improvement with regard to PISA, as indeed yours party did when you were

in government. There has been some improvement, it is far from enough.

There needs to be more improvement in terms of reading and mathematics.

We know that is true of the entirety of the UK. I don't use that as an

excuse, because I see the figures in front of me as far as Wales is

concerned. I have already outlined what we as a government have put

forward in order to deal with the situation and to improve these

results in 2015. Unless there is something in the government's

programme, which I all ears about, which needs to be improved, this is

how we intend to improve it. 43rd and Maths, 41st and reading, as a

parent, I do not accept that any of our children are any less capable

than the children in Scotland, in Ireland or in England. Now Scotland

also has large pockets of deprivation, it is substantially

outperforming Wales. Even though it has the same set of tools for

delivering those results. If the Scottish Government can deliver good

results, why can't you? It is a challenge for us, we have to ensure

that by 2015 we deliver those results. Two of the education

ministers have said that what we have put in place will take time to

work its way through. Who knows in England what they will need to do

there? As far as Wales is concerned, we have said that what

was put in place would take some time to have its fullest effect. We

have seen improvement in reading, but overall it is not good. We need

to make sure that things improve in 2015. Let's look at implementation.

There have been delays in implementation. These delays mean

that we will miss your government's 2015 improvement targets. Isn't it

the case First Minister that if your government was a local authority, it

would now be in special measures? Can you tell us this afternoon, why

should parents continue to trust your government with their

children's education? Because we deliver school spending that is not

there in other parts of the UK. The gap with England has been closed.

The education maintenance allowance has been kept in Wales. We have

ensured students in Wales can go in to university without an enormous

debt over their heads when they leave. We have to remember the PISA

one -- results show that it is the ability to take exams. We have the

figures we know that show that things are moving in the right

direction, but there is a need for government working with teachers,

because the government cannot deliver it on its own, to ensure

there are improvements in future. The reality is that we have a

programme in place, parties can say what is wrong with those programmes,

we have put in place a programme by government that contains education

programmes that moves towards improvement towards 2015 and we are

confident in that. I speak as someone who came from the system. We

have a very generous procedure in this chamber for the leaders of the

non-government parties to question. I do not want to hear heckling in

stereo while I am listening to the response of the First Minister. I

call on Kirsty Williams. First Minister has shone a spotlight

and on that international stage, under the glare of that spotlight,

the abject failure of Labour's education policies have been exposed

for everyone to see. As a labourer Assembly Members for 14 years, as a

cabinet member for 14 years, and now as First Minister of our nation I

you not ashamed? No. Complacent, complacent. You have

said it was the -- your ambition to be in the top 20. We are barely in

the top 40. Why have you consistently promised me, this

chamber and the Welsh public, when questioned, that we would see

improvements this year? We did see an improvement but not enough this

year. I say that very clearly. Let's go through it again, she did not

listen the first time round. The National literacy and numeracy

programme, the national support programme, supporting professional

developments, leadership development, strengthening

accountability, were all put in place since 2009. It will take more

time for these improvements to have been fooled force. But I say to the

Leader of the Lords rolled them is, if you do not like it, what would

you change? -- Liberal Democrats. Let's be clear of the results. Two

months ago in this very chamber you said to me, I expect to see an

improvement in our First Minister results in December. If you see what

we have done as a government, you will understand why I believe we

will make improvements. How can you as the First Minister be so out of

touch, ignorant and blissfully unaware as to the reality of the

situation that you could make that statement two months ago that is so

off the mark? I have never heard a more arrogant statement. I have

children in school like her. I do not go on and on about it. The

reality of the situation is that unlike her party who is detached

from reality in London, she talks to us about being detached from

reality, I meet with people on the weekend, I see what my children have

in school, that makes me more than aware of the education system. I

came through the state system as well and I am aware of what it can

deliver and what our aspirations for it in the future. I have offered the

opposition party, they have quite rightly help me to account on these

results. It is my responsibility to explain what we are doing in order

to improve results in the future. But it is also the responsibility

for the opposition parties to outline what they would do

differently. Not once have we heard a suggestion as to how things would

be done differently. We accept our responsibilities, they do not. In

that regard they have said no lead field. Question three. Can the First

Minister make a statement on business rates in South Wales? Yes.

The proposed redevelopment of Newport city centre is greatly

welcome and will benefit business in the long term. However, the current

demolition work has caused major disruption to pedestrian access and

bus stop locations, thereby reducing footfall. Will the First Minister

join me in supporting Newport's chamber in of trade in their efforts

to get business rates reduced for city centre traders are firstly

affected by the redevelopment of this work? These are matters to be

discussed with the city council in Newport. I am sure they consider

proposals, affordable proposals, that will help regenerate the city

centre. I am sure you will be aware that this weekend marks the first

small business Saturday in the UK. I hope you will agree that increased

financial powers for Wales gives us an opportunity to revitalise our

town centres and in the run-up to Christmas are you willing to give

some cheer to businesses by rate relief? What will change things will

be the fooled evolution of business rates to Wales. That will allow us

to have more tools at our disposal. -- complete demolition. What is the

Welsh government doing to promote the living wage amongst employers in

Wales? We encourage employers to adopt the living wage. The Welsh

government is currently consulting on the draft public services

workforce bill. What assurances can you give that guidance from the

Welsh government in paying staff in the public sector are living which

will be a key element in the eventual bill and can you make it

clear that your procurement policy that is employed in Wales will be

given priority for securing contracts? It is not to do with

living wages but the two tier code. We have agreed to bring the living

wage in the public sector under the rematch of the council itself when

it will be considered with broader issues. I can further tell the

member that the council meeting yesterday did consider looking at

the living wage and there are possibilities that the council may

consider in the future, support for the lowest paid employees, flexible

working, development of urgency is, sharing best practice and

management. -- development of abilities. We must ensure that we do

not have a detrimental cost to businesses. The fact is that the

amount of income tax paid by someone on the national minimum wage has

actually fallen by 70% since the UK coalition government came to power

in 2010. Do you support their efforts to change the tax system to

benefit the lower paid? I think those would have more effective war

was done to help them with living costs. Food costs have been

astronomical as have energy bill costs. Were people have seen even

modest pay increases they have been more than swallowed up by the cost

of living increases that they have had to pay out. The reality is that

people 's incomes continue to be squeezed as they have an -- done in

the last four years. Doing it through the tax system is not

enough, more must be done with the basic cost of living. That is why I

applaud what my party has done with energy costs. What plans does the

First Minister have two increased the lights at Cardiff airport?

Operational matters are the responsibility of the airport board.

We have seen an increase of the number of flights in the airport.

And we have new routes announced as well. Is the First Minister aware

that we had a wonderful hat-trick scored in Spain at the weekend.

There are no direct flights for football fans to go there. What can

the first Minister do to ensure that for all fans from Cardiff can fly

directly to Madrid? I hope that fans from Madrid will come to see Cardiff

city. It is right to say there is no current direct route. The airport

discusses many routes with many operators, it has to be a commercial

rate. In the meantime it is possible for fans to travel via Amsterdam

with KLM or fly through the Barcelona have. -- hub. Two years

ago you said it would be relatively easier -- easy to establish an error

link with air China. He said this would be a key priority for you.

What progress has been made by the government? There is an issue with

regard to the need to lengthen the runway. It is a remarkable question

from the Tories. We had the Leader of the Opposition parting saying

that if it closes, tough luck. Let British Airways maintenance go. What

have we seen since it has been bought. It could -- 8% increase in

passenger numbers. That is action compared to the idleness of the

Tories. First Minister, it was disappointing that long haul Air

Passenger Duty was not included in the tax raising powers recommended

for devolution, especially when we have seen how Belfast airport has

benefited from such powers. I wonder if you regret when colleagues put in

an amendment in the Finance Bill to transfer long haul airport tax. If

another such amendment on the devolution of Air Passenger Duty is

put forward again, will you make sure that you guarantee at least

some of your Labour Party colleagues will be there in Westminster to

support you next time around? The reality is that the government has

made it clear that we support the devolution of all Air Passenger

Duty. It raises over ?1 million in Wales. It could have a real effect

on the airport. Bristol's traffic profile is short-haul business

destinations, so it would not affect them. When the Conservatives argue

as they don't that it would be unfair on Bristol because Bristol

takes priority over Wales in the thinking of the Secretary of State,

particularly if we won to see the full devilish and of Air Passenger

Duty, in regard to long hall, something the present government

have failed to deliver. I was glad to see the new season flights

returning to Cardiff. But the sad fact remains that passenger numbers

at the airport at 50% what they were five years ago. What is your

benchmark in terms of success for routes? It has to make a profit. It

will have gone a million, an 8% rise as I have said. New routes that have

never been flown before from Cardiff have come into place, such as

Grenoble. That is encouraging. It is a very tough market, but the airport

board are extremely able and willing to look at new routes. It is not to

be sniffed at in a competitive market. Will the First Minister make

a statement about the number of people using prepaid meters? In

2012, there were 270,094 households on prepaid meters in Wales. Ofgem

figures are not provided for constituency or local authority

areas. Independent experts estimate that prepaid meters can cost

customers extra in fuel costs. Is this not an acceptable --

unacceptable? It is wholly unacceptable for those who are

finding it difficult to pay their fuel costs. The figures seem high,

but we meet regularly with Ofgem, and I have asked them to make sure

they take action people are not paying more than they need to. Will

the First Minister agree with me that the recent announcement made by

the UK government to reduce energy bills by an average of ?50 a year is

impractical -- is a practical step which would benefit tens of

thousands of households across Wales? Will he also agree with me

that the onus is now on the energy companies to do more to help

families this winter, particularly those with low incomes and those on

prepaid tariffs? The response of the UK government is a direct response

to my own party about freezing energy prices. Suddenly we had an

announcement there would be a 50% the crease. But it is hardly a

substantial amount to contribute to people 's pockets. Far better to

freeze prices as proposed by a very sensible Labour government in

waiting rather than a knee jerk reaction of a dying government in

Westminster. First Minister, are you aware that the UK government will be

redefining fuel poverty, resulting in about 800,000 people suddenly no

longer being classed as fuel customers, they will not be better

off. Can you give assurances that your government will not be

manipulating the figures by redefining the fuel poor? That is

not something we want to do. The Conservatives have form on this.

Where figures are awkward, get rid of the figures, that is the way the

Conservatives have always operated. How was the Welsh Government

safeguarding older people in their homes? We are taking action to

safeguard older people in their homes, including action on rogue

traders and doorstep crime, and support. How will the West

government -- Welsh Government actively intervene to tackle

inconsistent provision across Wales, to protect older people from scams

and swindles on the doorstep. Research shows that Cardiff has not

produced a new ones and 2010. -- a new one since 2010. We have plans to

extend no cold calling zones to deter rogue traders. Residents

should report it to their local trading standards department, which

should follow action. The figures vary across the whole of Wales, but

most local authorities have a substantial number of dwellings

included in no cold calling zones. 38,500 dwellings across the whole of

Wales. Thank you. One of the outcomes of these aggressive methods

of selling is that people, particularly older people, are less

willing to change energy providers because of the experience they have

of feeling under threat when an offer is made to them. And they pay

more for their energy than they should. Do you believe that the

current local authorities are sufficiently robust? If you do, why

do you believe the situation arises so regularly? The problem is when

people telephone people, when they ring up and offer people some kind

of agreement, that cannot be controlled on a local level or on a

Welsh level. We do have the TBS system, but not everybody is part of

that, so people do tend to get three or four calls each evening. I am one

of those people. I just put the phone down on them. The problem

should be considered on a British level, in order to ensure that we

have a situation where if people say they do not want people to phone

them up, but that doesn't happen. At present, it is a voluntary system,

and I do not believe that is adequate for the future. Thank you,

First Minister. The proposed definition in the new bill mentioned

at risk adults, where they do need to receive care or support. They

have stated that this is too narrow definition. Would you be willing to

reconsider this definition, bearing in mind that there could be an adult

under threat within his or her home, but does not receive support at

present. The new definition would not apply to those people at

present. Naturally, we are very eager and happy to discuss parts of

the bill itself with any party. As I believe that there are in excess of

500 amendments, we understand that some organisations have received the

support of various parties in order to ensure that the bill is passed.

We will be very willing to listen to any views. What discussions is the

first Minister had -- has the First Minister had with local authority

leaders with regard to the housing? He is leading on the housing account

revenue subsidy. He has met with local authority housing leaders,

keeping them informed of progress. Of course, First Minister, there are

two sides to this. First of all, local authorities must see where

they stand in terms of the changes to the HRA S, and there is important

negotiation happening the Treasury on this. Will the Minister lead

those negotiations in order to safeguard the interests of local

authorities in Wales, and enable local authorities to reinvest in

building homes to rent? Of course. Local authorities have a wonderful

opportunity with the changes on the horizon. Of course, we will support

and promote them in the construction of houses. They will be able to save

money ultimately because of these changes. Thank you, deputy presiding

officer. The Member has mentioned debt. What will the situation be in

terms of the debt currently held by local authorities in Wales? What

role will the Welsh Government play in that regard? Well, the changes of

course will ensure that the transfer of ?73 million of housing revenue

from the United Kingdom will come to an end. But it will ensure that

local authorities will be able to self fund in future. And we believe

that there will be a way of saving approximately ?30 million each and.

Will the first Minister outline the impact of Welsh Government health

policies on South Wales? The impact can be seen by the improvement in

life expectancy, treatment levels and high levels of patient

satisfaction. But he will know that Monmouth has the lowest ambulance

response time for emergency calls. A is a place where dignity is

compromised. Our health board how -- has the highest level of waiting

times. Urgent action is called for. When can we expect improvement in

the quality of service? We have seen ambulance response time targets hit.

We are in a position where answer waiting times have improved, the

same as England in effect. There is a limit to what can be achieved

considering the amount of space there and the age of the building.

The business case has been outlined for development. The health board is

providing -- preparing a robust business case. There we are, we'll

leave First Minister's Questions there but don't forget that you can

see more coverage of the National Assembly online from BBC Wales's

Democracy Live page at bbc.co.uk/walespolitics. That's it

for today. We'll be back at the same time next week with more coverage of

First Minister's Questions. If you want more Welsh politics before

then, there's y Sgwrs on S4C at 9:30pm tomorrow evening and the

Sunday Politics on BBC One Wales at 11 on Sunday. As for today, though,

from all of us on the programme, goodbye.