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16/04/2013

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Good afternoon. Welcome to our first programme back after the

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Easter break. We'll be bringing you questions to the First Minister,

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Well, business in the chamber is already underway.

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National Assembly for Wales is now in session. First item on the

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agenda is tributes to Baroness Thatcher. I am sure their members

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will wish to join me in offering our condolences to the family of

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Baroness Thatcher. First Minister. I rise to make some brief remarks

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following the passing of Baroness Thatcher, the former prime minister.

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Can I begin by expressing sympathy to her family on the loss of a

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mother and a grand mother. I am sure they will feel her loss keenly

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for some time. It has been said many times that she was a

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remarkable personality. She won three general elections and saw the

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collection of 14 Conservative MPs in Wales, the feat that has not

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been equalled since. She was a decisive person and often struck

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fear into those who served under her in her Cabinet. Perhaps her

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most noteworthy moment was the recovery of the Falkland Islands

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following their invasion by a brutal military dictatorship. Less

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successful, perhaps, were her dealings in Northern Ireland where

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she managed to alienate both sides of the community. It must, of

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course, have been difficult for her to deal with that part of the world

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after the murder of her mentor and the bombing of the Grand Hotel. It

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is right to say that she brought many of us in this change and --

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many of us in this chamber into politics. Some of the benches

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opposite in support of her views and others of us in strong reaction

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to what she did. Indeed it was what happened during the course of the

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miners' strike that brought me on the political path that I have

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taken ever since. She was a strong character but also somebody whose

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views were often divisive of. She inspired strong views on both sides

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of the argument that she would put forward. I would have to say that

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being decisive does not mean that somebody is necessarily right. It

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is right to say that there are many in Wales who still feel the legacy

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of her politics. The miners' strike and its aftermath are still very

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much felt by many of our communities and there is still

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great bitterness in terms of what happened at that time which has

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lasted to this day. He it caused great hurt when many of our people

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were described as the enemy within. Those comments were not easily --

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those comments have not been easily forgotten in the communities that

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were affected. Communities that fill the legacy of that time to

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this day, communities that were sustained by the coal industry and

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then lost their means of survival and then, of course, were offered

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no alternative employment. It is probably correct to say that the

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opposition to the policies that were put in place at that time

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caused the creation of this assembly. It provided the momentum

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towards devolution. I suspect that was an unintended effect to what

:04:20.:04:26.

had happened in the 1980s and the 1990s. There are many of us in this

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chamber who will have a great deal of disagreement with the policies

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that were put in place during her time as Prime Minister. Those views

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will be very strongly felt by many across Wales. Tomorrow, however, to

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a family will be in mourning. They must be allowed to grief with

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dignity. I will be attending the funeral tomorrow as First Minister

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on behalf of the people of Wales. Leader of the opposition, aren't --

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Andrew RT Davies. A rise to pay tribute to Baroness Thatcher and I

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am grateful to the presiding offer -- presiding officer to allow this

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opportunity for the assembly to pay tribute in its own way and the

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leaders will have different views on the impact that Prime Minister

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Thatcher made to this country. I passionately believe that she was a

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force for good, as many in my party, and obviously of the Centre Right

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persuasion do believe and the belief with considerable passion. I

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fully accept that, being a politician, there are two sides to

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every argument. When you look at the era that Margaret Thatcher

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served as prime minister, putting herself forward for three general

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elections, and being endorse that all three elections to be the prime

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minister, the democratically elected leader of this country, and

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implement the policies that did transform this country from having

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the sick man of Europe tag around its neck to being a vibrant,

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opportune place for people to succeed. Home-ownership, for

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example, where many millions of people were empowered to run their

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own property and drive economic opportunities for wood. I believe

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when history reflects on what Margaret Thatcher and her

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successive cabinets did in the 80s was to transform this country for

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the better. If you look at the era that Prime Minister Thatcher came

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into politics, in the 1950s, an era of great deference, if you like, in

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public life, when the role of a woman was not secured, other than

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thinking that the role was in the house, bringing up children, she

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broke the glass ceiling to break into politics and I think she

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continued that as you progress through her political career and

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her public life. When we look at, as the first Mr touched on, the

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liberation of the Falkland Islands in 1982, the stand against Irish

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terrorism, both loyalist and nationalist, let us not forget it

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was on both sides of the coin in Northern Ireland, and the terrible

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tragedies. We have seen the terrible consequences of terrorism

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only last night in America and you look at what Margaret Thatcher and

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Ronald Reagan achieved in standing up to what Ronald Reagan called the

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evil Empire, and bringing an end to the Cold War. Irstead fast

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determination undoubtedly freed the many millions of people in the

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Continent of Europe and contributed to a more peaceful continent and a

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peaceful world. Many tributes have been paid to the former prime

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minister but we must also remember that, as the First Minister touched

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on, there is a family that has lost a mother and grandfather. Whilst it

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is perfectly legitimate for people to raise their objections are and

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also to note with some sadness the policies that may be that they did

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not agree with her but I hope that people will be respectful at the

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funeral tomorrow and allow the passing of what I believe was an

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iconic figure of the 21st century to be noted and measured with at

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the service that will be held at St Paul's Cathedral. A passionately

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believe that the Prime Minister Thatcher put the Great back into

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Great Britain and history will judge her to have been the most

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successful peacetime prime minister this country has had. It has been

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issued privilege to say these few words on behalf of my assembly

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group and my party here in Wales. Thank you very much. The leader of

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Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. Thank you, presiding officer. Whatever

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people's feelings are that her political legacy, and I would

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acknowledge there are strong feelings on both sides, a person

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has died and has left the family believed -- bereaved. I want to

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make it clear that I am not here this afternoon of to pay tribute to

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Margaret Thatcher or her political legacy. I am speaking here as party

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leader, in order to mark her contribution to public life. As

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with all human beings in this situation it is right to express

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sympathies to the family of Margaret Thatcher at this time of

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sadness for them. It is also right at the time of her passing that we

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should reflect upon the politics that Margaret Thatcher left behind.

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We must learn from, but not well on the past. We should use it as an

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opportunity to look to the future. -- not dwell on the past. Where I

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live in the Rhondda people's chief memory of her time in office was

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that of the closure of the pits. The bitter miners' strike changed

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industrial policy. We are still paying the price for that. The

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deliberate switch to a service- based economy from a manufacturing

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economy, the privatisation and decline of our utilities and of

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public transport were just some of the legacies of what we now call

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Thatcherism. It was a politics that took a turn away from the post-war

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consensus that favoured a strong, welfare straight, three at the

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point of need, caring for from the cradle to the grave. Thatcherism

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started the attempt to roll back the state and signalled the

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introduction of neo- liberalism into British politics, and ideology

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that has been fatally followed by a British prime ministers ever since.

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Near liberalism or Thatcherism is the cause, in my opinion, of many

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of the problems that we face in Wales Today. We could allow her

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passing to make us better. Some will show their anger by protesting.

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But I would urge everyone to use the energy that could be taken up

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mulling over her economic legacy to instead think creatively about how

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that legacy, that philosophy can be overturned. Instead of focusing our

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anger on the events of a quarter of a century or more ago, let us turn

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this into a time for all of us in Wales to decided collectively, as a

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society, that I want to create a future that is better than the past.

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Margaret Thatcher told us that there is no such thing as society.

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In Wales we do not believe that to be true. Community is important to

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us. Letters prove it wrong by creating a well-functioning and

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fairer, more equal economy, as well as a network of a vibrant caring

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and thriving communities. With powers over the levers that can

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shake our economy, we can reject and reverse the greed is good

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culture that comes with me and liberalism. A bereavement is always

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a time for reflection. My hopes for the future of Wales, as a very

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different woman leader, from a very different political party, are for

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us to create, in contrast to Thatcherism, and economy and the

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World Society based upon the principles of fairness, equality,

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peace and co-operation. Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Kirsty

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Williams. I wish to join other political leaders here today in

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remembering the life of Margaret, Baroness Thatcher. I would like to

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send on behalf of my party condolences to their children and

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her wider family and friends. Margaret Thatcher was the dominant

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political figure of her time and of my youth. I became active in

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politics when I was 15 years old at the height of her power, in large

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part in opposition to her government and the policies are

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pursued in the part of Wales where I grew up and the parts of the

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committee that they now represent. It was, she seems, however, an

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individual of immense strength which it relied heavily on when she

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took on the old grandees to become first an MP and then the leader of

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her party, at a time when I am sure that many of them thought the

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woman's place was in the home. Watching the many re-runs of her

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interviews on television in the last week I have been reminded of

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her forthright style and plain- speaking. I distinctly remember the

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bombing at the Conservative conference in Brighton and her

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resolve to attend a conference the next day, speaking, with composure

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I am sure that few of us could Buster in such circumstances. Her

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legacies and rightly evoked strong reactions and those legacy is,

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whether for good or for bad, they still affect our lives today. Our

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presence here in this chamber, some would argue, is one of them. It is

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right that those legacies are debated and their ongoing effect on

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our nation. Today, on the eve of her funeral, we pay her - that we

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pay our respects to her family and we remember a woman who devoted her

:14:22.:14:32.
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agenda and the first item are questions to the first Minister.

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What recommendations of the Francis report are being considered by the

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:14:58.:14:58.

Welsh government? A review of all 290 recommendations is underway to

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determine the e-learning for NHS Wales and the Minister will present

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a full response -- response in July. Despite the view that health is

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wholly devolved, there are a number of aspects still reserved in

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Westminster. What discussions have you had with the UK government about

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it being a joint policy on these or indeed for the full devolution of

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health? There will be a full statement in July and members will

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have the opportunity of understanding then what we have done

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to consider the number of recommendations in the report. One

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of the issues which was raised in the report was the pursuit of

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targets and financial balance at the expense of quality of care. How do

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you reflect on that given that over the Easter period, accidents and

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emergency consultants described our NHS as being on the brink of

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meltdown as a result of the lack of resources? We know there are

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difficulties at the moment in terms of unshelled jute -- unscheduled

:16:14.:16:24.
:16:24.:16:26.

care. The Minister is considering the issue at this moment in time and

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will be taking action in the near future. Will you provide an update

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on the preventative measures taken during the recent measles outbreak.

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The Minister made a written statement on the response yesterday.

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The Welsh government and Public health boards will take all

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necessary measures to prevent the outbreak spreading further. I am

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pleased to hear about the measures taken. I raise this issue in

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question is when there was an increase in measles cases in North

:17:03.:17:13.
:17:13.:17:16.

Wales, so can I be assured that the immunisation will remain a high

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priority for public health across the whole of Wales so we can build

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up immunity to these illnesses which actually can have very serious

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consequences. The advice I would give is that parents should ensure

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their children are vaccinated with the two vaccinations required to

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provide immunity. You will be aware of the many of the thousands of

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vaccinations that have been given in recent times in order to provide

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that level of immunity. Will he be aware that a significant challenge

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to get up to the 92% required for effective prevention of further

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spread of the measles outbreak the Minister will remember that in 1988

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when this inoculation was introduced, prior to that there were

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half a million cases every year with 100 resulting in death. With the

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first Minister said there will be priority to ensure there is

:18:23.:18:33.
:18:33.:18:34.

sufficient vaccines? 95% is required for herd immunity, we are at 94.3%

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confirmed when it comes to the first immunisation and at 89.9% with

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regard to the second dose. Our intention is to ensure that both

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doses reach the 95% target and I believe the publicity that has been

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given over the past few weeks will help us to reach that target.

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Minister, we are seeing the effects of a vaccination rate declined that

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happened a decade ago and there were some members felt there was the

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perception of controversy and called the government to abandon promoting

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the vaccine. We acknowledge there are problems with the message so

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will the government commit to a future public awareness campaign to

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make sure this does not happen again? I would have to say there

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were some elements Indymedia which fuelled the fears of parents. --

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Indymedia. I know that elements of the media have a job to do but it is

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an element in the outbreak in Swansea in terms of the level of

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immunisations. What is important is that the scare that was fuelled at

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the time by what was claimed to be robust medical research, has been

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discredited and of course parents now see how important the

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immunisation is. None of us would wish to see the message being

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presented in the way it has been but certainly I believe will be a way of

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ensuring we see vaccination levels rise to the 95% for both

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immunisations. We now move to questions for the party leaders.

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Kirsty Williams. First Minister, who should be held responsible for

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figures showing that ambulances in Wales spent six years waiting

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outside Welsh a and E departments in the last six months? I recognised

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the research on this. She makes a good point. It is important we

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recognise it has been difficult for ambulances over the past few

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months. There have been pressures in terms of unscheduled care. The

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statement, the report that has been commissioned on ambulance services

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will be presented tomorrow and the Minister is considering what should

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be done to alleviate the pressures that have been built up in a and E

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departments. The figures are of little comfort to the patients who

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have wasted over five and a half hours in the back of an ambulance.

:21:30.:21:37.

Earlier this month, half of a and E consultants of Wales wrote to the

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minister saying emergency departments were on their knees and

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they were at the point of meltdown. When will you stop being so flippant

:21:45.:21:49.

and stop burying your head in the sand about the crisis in our

:21:49.:21:56.

emergency departments? An element of flippancy is to suggest I would meet

:21:56.:22:03.

constituents and then not follow it up. That is what the Liberal

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Democrat has done. It is correct to say there are pressures on a and E

:22:08.:22:12.

and the ambulance service. We do know that there has been for some

:22:12.:22:15.

months now pressure building up in that regard, we know there are many

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elderly people who are being referred to hospitals and that of

:22:21.:22:25.

course has led to pressure building. There are two ways of dealing with

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this. The first dealing with it by the ambulance service review and

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secondly to assess the need in terms of what must be done to alleviate

:22:35.:22:41.

the situation and that is what the Minister is doing. The reality is

:22:41.:22:44.

that those same consultants who wrote to your health minister said

:22:44.:22:48.

they are struggling to look after patients stuck in a and E because

:22:48.:22:55.

they are waiting for beds. All the reorganisation plans will see a

:22:55.:22:59.

reduction in hospital beds. The ambulance with you will not help at

:22:59.:23:04.

all. Ambulances are stacking up outside emergency departments which

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are full of patients with no beds to go to. Is it not the reality that

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the proposed changes will mean fewer beds and in the community fewer beds

:23:15.:23:19.

will mean longer waits for patients which in turn will be to longer

:23:19.:23:25.

waits for ambulances outside those departments? The leader of the Lib

:23:25.:23:32.

Dems suggests that the consultants are somehow objecting to the reach

:23:32.:23:37.

of -- reconfiguration part. They do not. They understand what needs to

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be done. We take seriously any letter that is sent to us by

:23:43.:23:47.

consultants, we would not want to see the service getting as bad as in

:23:47.:23:53.

England. We understand there has been a buildup in terms of

:23:54.:23:59.

unscheduled care and we are determined to tackle it. First

:23:59.:24:08.

Minister, over the Easter recess there was much talk of the mid-staff

:24:08.:24:14.

scandal and the Francis report. Argue confident the Welsh health

:24:14.:24:17.

service and in particular Welsh hospitals are not in the same

:24:17.:24:24.

position that the mid-staff found itself in? There is no evidence to

:24:24.:24:28.

suggest that hospitals are in the same position. I agree with you but

:24:28.:24:34.

you would be aware that in a certain limited number of cases there has

:24:34.:24:39.

been great concern amongst patients and clinicians about some of the

:24:39.:24:44.

aspects around mid-staff coming into wells and happening here in Wales.

:24:44.:24:49.

One of the issues that has been touched on by experts and

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politicians is to introduce a duty of candle into the health service.

:24:53.:25:00.

Are you minded to introduce such a Jew to fire a legal framework so

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that clinicians and patients can have the confidence that such

:25:05.:25:09.

debacle is that happened at mid-staff would be prevented here?

:25:09.:25:13.

The issue has been raised by a number of members and is something

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we will give consideration to. There are substantial recommendations that

:25:19.:25:25.

have emerged as a result of the report and there will be a full

:25:25.:25:29.

response in July. Although mid-staff is in England, it is important we

:25:29.:25:36.

are vigilant in ensuring that the Welsh health service delivers.

:25:36.:25:42.

Tomorrow is the 23rd anniversary of the death of Robbie Powell. I have

:25:42.:25:46.

met Will Powell over the Easter recess and he has been in

:25:46.:25:52.

discussions with yourself and one of the issues that he and his family

:25:52.:25:56.

have is around the medical notes that were taken at the time and the

:25:56.:26:01.

medical negligence. It is his belief that such a duty of candle which

:26:01.:26:06.

make a difference to the health service. Do you accept that the

:26:06.:26:10.

Powell family have waited so long to try and seek justice to the death of

:26:10.:26:15.

Robbie Powell and what happened to their sons and one way of

:26:15.:26:21.

alleviating some of the grief that Mister Powell feels is to introduce

:26:21.:26:26.

such a duty within the health service in Wales that would give

:26:26.:26:31.

great assistance to families such as theirs who have found themselves in

:26:31.:26:37.

the 23 year logjam of trying to seek justice around the death of a family

:26:38.:26:43.

member. It is something we would consider. Mister Powell and his son

:26:43.:26:49.

were the subject of the most appalling chain of events which have

:26:49.:26:54.

been revealed by the independent investigation. I have always been

:26:54.:26:59.

keen to ensure that whether there are lessons that can be learned, and

:26:59.:27:04.

learned. There are issues we have no control over but the duty of candle

:27:04.:27:13.

is something we will give consideration to. There have then a

:27:13.:27:16.

number of developments during the recess which have impacted on food

:27:16.:27:21.

security and applied Comrie have argued that we can help both the

:27:21.:27:25.

local economy and climate change if we can produce more locally and buy

:27:25.:27:32.

more locally. That will be made all the more difficult following the

:27:32.:27:38.

closure of the Welsh country foods processing plant in Anglesey. That

:27:38.:27:43.

will not only have a serious adverse impact on small businesses and the

:27:43.:27:47.

economy, but will have wider repercussions as there is no

:27:47.:27:53.

processing plant north of Merthyr Tydfil. Many will be forced to send

:27:53.:27:59.

their livestock across the border. As the chair says for Wales and the

:27:59.:28:04.

industry in North Wales, this is a disaster. What will you do to save

:28:04.:28:12.

those jobs and assist the farming industry to deal with the closure?

:28:12.:28:16.

It is something that is wholly unwelcome to us and to those that

:28:16.:28:26.
:28:26.:28:27.

work there. 1300 jobs have been saved at Merthyr. In terms of what

:28:28.:28:32.

is happening, there are still discussions taking place. I do not

:28:32.:28:40.

want to raise hopes at this stage, should the worst come to the worse,

:28:40.:28:43.

people can expect the fullest level of support we can offer as a

:28:43.:28:50.

government. As someone who supports our farming industry, I am concerned

:28:50.:28:56.

that if processing moves out of Wales, this produce may not be sold

:28:56.:29:01.

as Welsh lamb despite the excellent brand name that Welsh lamb has. This

:29:01.:29:08.

will have a financial consequence. Given the possible effect of this,

:29:08.:29:14.

do you agree it is time to reconsider the financial rules that

:29:14.:29:24.
:29:24.:29:26.

govern the redmeat levy allocation The issue is that of the levy in

:29:26.:29:31.

that is applied. This didn't used to be an issue but it was important

:29:31.:29:36.

to us in Wales. We had our own body that fully funded a Welsh mead. In

:29:36.:29:40.

terms of the way the levy is examined -- distributed, I believe

:29:40.:29:44.

this is being examined at the moment. The weather is finally

:29:44.:29:47.

starting to improve but the prolonged winter and especially the

:29:47.:29:53.

heavy snowfall in March has badly hit many of our food producers.

:29:53.:30:00.

Last week the farming and land organisations took the

:30:00.:30:03.

unprecedented step of writing to the Minister for natural resources

:30:03.:30:09.

and fruit to request additional support for the farming industry.

:30:09.:30:13.

Welsh farmers are clearly being disadvantaged, compared to those in

:30:13.:30:19.

Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. Firstly, can you tell us

:30:19.:30:23.

your plans for future bad weather, and secondly, we you reverse the

:30:23.:30:28.

decision, and provide compensation for farmers who have suffered

:30:28.:30:33.

direct losses as a result of this weather? There still, there is no

:30:33.:30:36.

compensation in England. The schemes that are in place in

:30:36.:30:39.

Northern Ireland and Scotland are quite different. In Northern

:30:39.:30:46.

Ireland areas about -- hardship funding of up to 7,000 euros per

:30:46.:30:51.

farmer which includes the cost of disposal of fallen animals. The

:30:51.:30:57.

scheme works on proportion of losses per individual farm and

:30:57.:31:00.

there is no compensation there are available for structural damage to

:31:00.:31:05.

sheds or fences. In Scotland they are offering capital grants to

:31:05.:31:09.

provide support for structural damage as a result of the snow and

:31:09.:31:14.

money was made available to support farmers with a fall in stock. It is

:31:14.:31:17.

not quite a compensation scheme that the Scots have. Officials were

:31:17.:31:23.

asked last week on how they could provide further support to farming

:31:23.:31:29.

businesses and a minister has already spoken on terms of our from

:31:29.:31:35.

burial and the relief that is being given their. We will seek moves to

:31:35.:31:40.

bring forward the individual farm payment to October. In terms of

:31:40.:31:44.

what is being done to help farmers and Wales, we believe help has been

:31:44.:31:47.

provided. We are working with farming charities in order to

:31:47.:31:52.

assist them with the work that they are doing. It would not be correct

:31:52.:31:59.

to say that there is a compensation scheme, it is rather more

:31:59.:32:07.

complicated than that. What discussions has the First Minister

:32:07.:32:10.

had with the the UK government in relation to the call for UK

:32:10.:32:13.

constitutional Convention? I have had an exchange in correspondence.

:32:13.:32:20.

It was not angry. That was over my call for a convention. We agreed

:32:20.:32:22.

that there should be a constitutional convention but we

:32:22.:32:26.

disagreed over the timing. I would have preferred to have such a

:32:26.:32:28.

convention before the Scottish referendum but he thinks should

:32:28.:32:36.

take place afterwards. I was very pleased that the proposal for a

:32:36.:32:39.

constitutional convention was backed by Westminster's

:32:39.:32:43.

constitutional committee. Does the First Minister agree that it is

:32:43.:32:47.

important that such a convention it should meet swiftly and before the

:32:47.:32:52.

Scottish referendum, Aziz said, so that a positive alternative view of

:32:52.:32:56.

the future shape of the UK years on the table before such a vote takes

:32:56.:33:00.

place? I think that is by far the most sensible approach. I don't

:33:00.:33:05.

think it will happen, sadly. Looking at the opinion polls in

:33:05.:33:08.

Scotland, it seems clear to me that the appetite for independence is

:33:08.:33:14.

not strong but there is never less an appetite for greater devolution.

:33:14.:33:17.

Putting in place a robust offer in terms of devolution for Scotland

:33:17.:33:22.

and elsewhere in the UK could have helped immensely in terms of

:33:22.:33:32.

offering Scotland, not just Scotland, a secure Future. The UK

:33:32.:33:36.

is not the only country in the world that is looking at the shape

:33:36.:33:40.

of its future constitution at the moment. Will the convention be

:33:40.:33:43.

adopting lessons from other countries and other regions in the

:33:43.:33:47.

developed world in deciding how it will actually take any of this work

:33:47.:33:52.

forward? It is difficult because the UK is quite different in the

:33:52.:33:57.

sense that it is a kind of federal state and yet it is not. It has a

:33:57.:34:01.

wholly unwritten constitution which can be an advantage. The cat Spain,

:34:01.:34:05.

where the constitution is written, it is far more difficult to effect

:34:05.:34:10.

greater devolution around Spain, which makes it difficult in terms

:34:10.:34:13.

of being flexible in the level of devolution that people are

:34:13.:34:15.

comfortable with in different parts of that country, where those

:34:15.:34:22.

lessons could be learnt I am sure a convention would look at them but

:34:22.:34:27.

the UK is an unusual situation in terms of its constitution and its

:34:27.:34:34.

make-up as a state. First Minister, wouldn't you agree that they can

:34:34.:34:37.

mention of this sort would work better if some of the issues that

:34:37.:34:41.

have yet to be devolved and yet to be revolved - a resolved in terms

:34:41.:34:48.

of devolution were resolved. For example the funding floor and the

:34:48.:34:51.

borrowing powers for the Welsh government. In which sequence do

:34:52.:34:55.

you place this different issues? I believe the people of Wales would

:34:55.:34:58.

be more willing to involve themselves in a convention if they

:34:58.:35:02.

could see that the current situation had been properly

:35:02.:35:07.

resolved. The convention should not be something that is instead of

:35:07.:35:12.

silk but something that comes after it. In my opinion we should ensure

:35:12.:35:16.

that part one of Silk is moved forward and then that is the most

:35:16.:35:20.

important thing and then we moved to part to which according to the

:35:20.:35:25.

timetable we now have, we will look at devolution across the United

:35:25.:35:29.

Kingdom to ensure a settlement in all parts of the United Kingdom

:35:29.:35:36.

which is more secure than we have at present. One of the major issues

:35:36.:35:41.

of any constitutional convention would be to give coherence to

:35:41.:35:44.

justice and prisons policy. The Ministry of Justice Sneinton of

:35:44.:35:48.

Wales as one of three areas in the running for a new prison which

:35:48.:35:52.

could be worth over �70 million at 1,000 jobs to the local economy.

:35:52.:35:56.

Could you identify what work the Welsh government is doing to bring

:35:56.:36:02.

a new prison to the region? We have consistently made the case that a

:36:02.:36:05.

prison is needed in the North to allow more prisoners to serve time

:36:05.:36:11.

in Wales. I wrote to the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of

:36:11.:36:14.

State for the Ministry of Justice on Friday following a property

:36:14.:36:17.

search by our officials. There are a number of sites in Welsh

:36:17.:36:20.

government ownership which could meet the broad requirements and we

:36:20.:36:30.
:36:30.:36:30.

felt that the main candidate among those sites are was in Wrexham.

:36:31.:36:36.

Isn't the strongest argument in favour of a convention that one

:36:36.:36:42.

would have to have some sort of convention, whatever the outcome of

:36:42.:36:47.

the Scottish referendum would be. Clearly, the UK government, and the

:36:47.:36:53.

Scottish government, are going to have to negotiate the terms of

:36:53.:36:57.

their relationship, whatever the outcome? Wouldn't it be wiser,

:36:57.:37:03.

therefore, for the first ministers and the prime ministers of the UK

:37:03.:37:06.

to come together and to agree on this and to accept the suggestion

:37:06.:37:11.

made by the First Minister of Wales that recommences work as a matter

:37:12.:37:16.

of urgency. That would be entirely sensible in my opinion. At present

:37:16.:37:20.

we know what the opinion is of the Prime Minister of the United

:37:20.:37:25.

Kingdom. Even though I haven't asked to this of Alex Salmond, I

:37:25.:37:29.

know his opinion that we do not need a British constitution because

:37:29.:37:36.

Scotland may not be a part of the United Kingdom next year, so the

:37:36.:37:39.

situation is very complex in Northern Ireland but it is entirely

:37:39.:37:44.

correct to say that we will need a convention after the referendum in

:37:44.:37:48.

Scotland whatever the result is. Will the first minister make a

:37:49.:37:53.

statement on ambulance waiting times in South Wales Central?

:37:53.:37:56.

Response times are variable and that much had to be acknowledged.

:37:56.:38:01.

We have said at that improving the quality abandon its response is one

:38:01.:38:05.

of our main priorities and we know there is support for this notion. I

:38:05.:38:10.

can say that the minister is awaiting a report which is due to

:38:10.:38:15.

be submitted tomorrow as I mentioned earlier. The statistics

:38:15.:38:18.

speak for themselves but you don't seem to have wanted to engage about

:38:18.:38:23.

that. I want to talk to that an individual who wrote to me to tell

:38:23.:38:26.

me that on Mother's Day his mother fell and fractured her solder --

:38:26.:38:31.

shoulder and she was left lying on a pavement in the sub-zero

:38:31.:38:34.

temperatures for one-and-a-half hours, waiting for an ambulance

:38:34.:38:38.

with potential spinal injuries. Will you write to my constituents

:38:38.:38:43.

and explain to him what has gone wrong and apologise to him for his

:38:43.:38:50.

mother's appalling experience. course, if you provide me with

:38:50.:38:53.

information, and the nature of the complaint I will be more than happy

:38:53.:39:01.

to investigate that. First Minister, we are aware of many of the

:39:01.:39:07.

problems and we eagerly await the report. In progressing matters and

:39:07.:39:10.

is during the ambulance service does progressively become better,

:39:10.:39:14.

one of the key things that must be done is proper engagement in

:39:14.:39:17.

discussion with other people on the ground themselves, the drivers and

:39:17.:39:21.

a staff of the ambulances. Will you be meeting with in the ambulance

:39:21.:39:26.

staff and personnel to discuss their per exception of the problems

:39:26.:39:32.

and also any recommendations that may come forward? -- perception.

:39:32.:39:35.

These are matters for the minister involved and I am certain that he

:39:35.:39:42.

will want to gain a wide variety of views before taking matters further.

:39:42.:39:45.

First Minister, ever since I have been an assembly member there have

:39:45.:39:49.

been issues that ambulance response times in this assembly, raised by

:39:49.:39:55.

members from across the whole of Wales, and you have Commission

:39:55.:39:58.

close to one dozen reports since devolution started into the

:39:58.:40:03.

ambulance started. You talked earlier in response to the leader

:40:03.:40:07.

of the Welsh Liberal Democrats that you need to make assessments. What

:40:07.:40:11.

assessment has your government made of the changes that are not

:40:11.:40:15.

required to make the real improvements in ambulance response

:40:15.:40:21.

times that patients and clinicians need here in Wales, rather than by

:40:21.:40:24.

2015 or 2016 and then us getting another report into ambulance

:40:24.:40:28.

response times. Few other government and the executive

:40:28.:40:33.

leaders and it is time to sort the mess out. We await a tomorrow's

:40:33.:40:37.

report. That said, I cannot say to the chamber that the Government is

:40:37.:40:40.

content with ambulance response times because that clearly is not

:40:40.:40:45.

the case. We have seen issues regarding ambulances waiting too

:40:46.:40:49.

long at a ENT departments and I have also heard many instances of

:40:49.:40:52.

members and others saying they waited too long for an ambulance

:40:52.:40:56.

and I clearly cannot continue in the long term. I am sure this is

:40:56.:41:01.

very much on the minister's lined - - mind.

:41:01.:41:03.

There we are. We'll leave First Minister's Questions there, but

:41:03.:41:07.

don't forget that you can see more coverage of the Assembly online via

:41:07.:41:12.

the BBC Wales Democracy Live page. Let's pick up on some of that with

:41:12.:41:14.

our Welsh Affairs Editor, Vaughan Roderick, who's been watching down

:41:14.:41:22.

in the Bay. Quite a difficult balance of for some of the party's

:41:22.:41:26.

leaders there, but Edgley Plaid Cymru, Labour and the Liberal

:41:26.:41:30.

Democrats in the tributes to Margaret Thatcher. It was difficult.

:41:30.:41:38.

I don't think one of the opposition leaders actually hit quite the

:41:38.:41:44.

right note that Ed Miliband did in Westminster. There was a little bit

:41:44.:41:50.

of sourness around but maybe it was inevitable. I don't think it is any

:41:50.:41:54.

great secret that there was a lot of people in the party's other than

:41:54.:41:57.

the Conservatives in Cardiff Bay who did not feel this was

:41:57.:42:01.

appropriate, that Margaret Thatcher wasn't a member of the assembly or

:42:01.:42:06.

a Welsh politician, why should she be commemorated in this way? They

:42:06.:42:12.

stuck very much to script. Perhaps the most telling failure was a wide

:42:12.:42:17.

shot at the end of the tributes, at the start of a First Minister's

:42:17.:42:22.

questions where you could see Labour and Plaid Cymru Ms pouring

:42:22.:42:25.

into the chamber, having deliberately stayed outside during

:42:25.:42:31.

those tributes. Once we got into the meat of of First Minister's

:42:31.:42:35.

Questions, obviously the issue over measles was one of the issues that

:42:35.:42:40.

was raised. Yes, it was dominated pretty much by health all the way

:42:40.:42:44.

through today. We had ambulance waiting times, we had the question

:42:44.:42:49.

of measles and we have the question of the state of the A&E departments.

:42:49.:42:54.

That is where we were before Easter. The state of the Welsh Health

:42:54.:42:57.

Service is central to the assembly and totally central to Welsh

:42:57.:43:02.

politics at the moment. We heard a lot about the constitutional

:43:02.:43:05.

convention. This is something that Carwyn Jones has said he wants to

:43:05.:43:09.

see for the whole of the UK and looking at this issue of

:43:09.:43:14.

independence in Scotland. Yes, Carwyn Jones was the first person

:43:14.:43:17.

to call for a constitutional convention. He seemed to hint

:43:17.:43:21.

pretty strongly that David Cameron agreed that there should be one.

:43:21.:43:25.

The question is, does that take place before the referendum in

:43:25.:43:30.

Scotland or after. Really does shots will be called by David

:43:30.:43:33.

Cameron and Alex Salmond and his appears that neither of those are

:43:33.:43:37.

particularly keen on a constitutional convention before

:43:37.:43:41.

the referendum. I think it is a bit of a dead rubber but for us

:43:41.:43:45.

constitutional anoraks, the fact that it probably is on the way at

:43:45.:43:50.

some stage is good news. Keep us talking for hours! Thank you very

:43:50.:43:52.

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