30/11/2011 am.pm

Hello and welcome to am.pm. A change of venue for us today as the

Senedd is closed due to today's public sector strike. I'm sure

today's industrial action will feature in Prime Minister's

Questions. We'll be off to the Commons very shortly. I'm joined on

the sofa by the Plaid Cymru AM, Alun Ffred Jones, and Antoinette

Sandbach for the Conservatives. Had a rare welcome to you both. We know

what will come up today. The Autumn Statement and the growth

figures and the strikes today will be the two main subject.

They suggest it will be a difficult Prime Minister's questions for the

Prime Minister? There will be a lot of shouting. It

will be interesting to see what Ed Miliband says about the strikes.

Let's cross now to Westminster and to our correspondent Tomos

I am sure the whole House would like to join me in paying tribute

to Sheldon Steel, from the 5th Battalion The Rifles. He was a

highly respected soldier who should potential. Our thoughts should be

with his family, friends and colleagues. His courage and

dedication will never be forgotten by our nation. This morning I had

meetings with ministerial colleagues and I shall have further

such meetings further today. Can I join the Prime Minister in

paying tribute to our brave servicemen who gave his life to his

country. Our thoughts go to his family at this difficult time. My

constituency in Blaenau Gwent has away unemployment but great

potential and would benefit greatly from a �200 million private sector

investment in motor sport. Can I express support for enterprise

zones in Wales as well as England, including Blaenau Gwent?

Can I congratulate him, having opted to grow additional facial

hair for this month. For those capable of doing so, it is a very

good way of raising the profile of this important illness, prostate

cancer. We are committed to providing enhanced capital

allowances and discussions are ongoing about a enhanced capital

allowances in enterprise zones. We will try to help in Blaenau Gwent

as elsewhere. I add we are electrifying the line to Cardiff

and looking for improvements to the motorway. They will be consequences

for additional spending for Wales. Mr Speaker, I am confident that the

Prime Minister would praise the courage and professionalism of the

Portland search and rescue helicopter. I am also confident he

will see share with me the alarm, and that and disbelief of my

constituents that it is to be axed. Will he meet with me and a small

delegation from South Dorset to discuss this urgent matter before

it -- a disastrous mistake is made? I am happy to meet with my

honourable friend and I know how important it is that we have

effective search and rescue facilities of our coast. What the

government is looking at is the best way to deliver those services,

including how they should be paid for. It is important that work goes

ahead. Ed Miliband.

Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to

Sheldon Steel, from the 5th Battalion The Rifles. He served

with a huge commitment and courage and a deepest condolences of with

his family and friends. Mr Speaker, in June Prime Minister's questions,

the prime minister praised the head teacher in Redditch for refusing to

strike. Today she has closed her school. She says, this has been the

most difficult decision of my professional life. The difference

in the summer of was that I had faith in the Government. I have not

seen any progress so I have decided to strike. Why does the Prime

Minister think so many decent, hard-working public sector workers,

many of whom have never been on strike before, feel the Government

simply isn't listening? The reason people are going on

strike is because they object to the reforms that we are making to

public sector pensions. I believe those reforms are absolutely

essential and as the former Labour pensions Secretary Lord Hutton said,

it is hard to imagine a better deal than this. What I would say above

all to people on strike today is that they are going on strike at a

time when negotiations are still under way. The Right Honourable

Gentleman refers to what was said in June. Let me remind him what he

said on 30th June. These strikes Orrell wrong. These strikes are

wrong at a time when negotiations are or going on. Why has he changed

his mind? Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker.

Order. I say to people who are engaged in orchestrated barracking,

it is very tedious from which ever side it comes, it is very tedious,

very juvenile, the public don't want to hear it and neither do I.

That is all ferries to it. Mr Ed Miliband.

They declared negotiations at an end four weeks ago. They said they

had made their final offer. They said they had made their final

offer, Mr Speaker. They haven't met the unions for four weeks. What has

the Prime Minister got round saying to people? He has gone around

saying that he is privately delighted that unions have walked

into his trap. That is the reality. He has been spoiling for this fight.

The reason people have lost faith is he is not being straight with

people. Will you admit that 800,000 low-paid workers on �15,000 a year

or less are facing an immediate tax rise of 3% on pension plans?

I know his entire posed -- his entire party is paid for by the

unions but it is extraordinary that what he has just told the House is

completely and utterly untrue. The fact is there were meetings with

the trade unions yesterday. There will be meetings with the trade

unions tomorrow and there will be meetings on Friday. These

negotiations are under way. Let me repeat again what he said in June.

It is wrong to strike when negotiations are going on. And yet

today, he backs the strikes. Why? Because he is irresponsible, left-

Mr Speaker, the difference is that unlike him, I am not going to

demonise the dinner lady, the cleaner, the nurse. People who are

earning a week what the Chancellor Now, Mr Speaker.

Order. Members on both sides of the House need to calm down if there

are senior members of the House to think it is a laughing matter, let

me tell them it isn't. The public would like to see some decent

behaviour and a bit of leadership on these matters. So would die. The

leader of the opposition. Mr Speaker, he is the one, and he

didn't deny it, that he went around saying that he was privately

delighted they had walked into his trap. That is the reality. The

truth is it is not just public sector workers who are paying for

the failure of his plan. It is private sector workers as well. Can

he confirm that as a result of the tax credits cuts announced

yesterday, a family on the minimum wage taking home �200 a week will

lose a week and a half's wages? First of all, let me be absolutely

clear, I will answer his question. The prime minister's answer,

however long it takes, will be heard. That is the principle of

democracy. The leader of the opposition must be heard and the

Prime Minister must be heard. I do not welcome these strikes one

bit. I think we have made a very reasonable, very fair offer to

public sector workers and that is why the former Labour pensions

Secretary says that it is hard to imagine a better deal. I don't want

to see any strikes. I don't want to see schools closed. I don't want to

see problems at our borders but this government has to make

responsible decisions. Let me just facts about the public sector

pensions. Anyone earning less than �15,000 on a full-time equivalent

salary will not see any increase in the contributions they have to make.

In terms of the reforms we are making, a nurse retiring on a

salary of just over �34,000, today she would get �17,000 pension. In

future she will get over �22,000 pension. A teacher retiring on a

salary of �37,000 would have got �19,000 and will now get �25,000.

These are fair changes and I tell you why, we rejected the idea he

should level down public sector pensions. We think public sector

pensions should be generous. As people live longer, it is only

right and only fair that they should make greater contributions.

What we are seeing today is a party opposite that is in the pocket of

the trade union members can leaders and have to ask their permission

before crossing the picket line and taking the irresponsible side of

trade union leaders that have called their people out on strike

when negotiations are under way. Now let me answer his question

about low pay. Order! Order! Order! Can I remind

the Prime Minister there is a large -- a large number of members of the

Order Paper who I want to here. A Brief sentence will suffice.

I will wait and give my answer. Mr Speaker, I am proud that

millions of hard working people in this country support the Labour

Party. Better than millions supporting Lord Ashcroft. The

problems -- the problem is he doesn't understand his own policy.

He doesn't understand there are part time workers earning less than

�21,000 who will be hit. 800,000 low-paid, part-time workers. 90 %

of whom are women, will be paying more. He denies it but it is true,

Mr Speaker. He sits there shaking his head and he doesn't understand

his own policy. Of course, Mr Speaker, he couldn't explain or

justify a what he did it to everyone on low pay with a

miserable deal cooked up with the Deputy Prime Minister to cut a

billion pounds from tax credits yesterday in the Autumn Statement.

They have no explanation for why they are doing that.

Order. I say to the honourable gentleman I don't require any

assistance from him. The leader of the opposition will come to a

question. What will unemployment be at the

time of the next Autumn Statement on the forecast? If you compare the

end of this Parliament with the start of this Parliament on the

office of budget responsibility figures and let us remember the

Office of budget responsibility is independent. When he was sitting in

the Treasury, the figures were fiddled by the ministers and

advisers. That no longer happens. What it shows is there will be half

a million more people in jobs, 90,000 fewer people on the claimant

count and the unemployment rate will be 7.2 % instead of 8.1 %.

That is the OBE are forecast. That is independent. Let me answer his

question about helping the poorest people. It is his party that got

rid of the 10 pence tax rate. The biggest tax and it is this

Government that has taken 1.1 million people out of tax, frozen

council caps, introduce nursery care for two, three and four year-

olds and introduced tax credits. That is a record to be proud of.

With child poverty going up as a result of the Autumn statement

yesterday. The truth is he couldn't answer the question because he is

too embarrassed by the truth. The education secretary should calm

down, Mr Speaker. He tells children to behave, why doesn't he behave

himself? He is too embarrassed, Mr Speaker. He is too embarrassed. 2.8

million people out of work according to the forecast of the

office of budget responsibility. Another Conservative prime minister

for whom unemployment is a price worth paying. And because he is

failing on unemployment and growth, he is failing on borrowing. He told

the CBI conference last year that by 2015, we will have balanced the

books. Will he now admit that on the central test he set himself, he

has failed? He complains about the level or --

the level of borrowing but he borrows more. Let me tell him what

we are doing. Because we have a plan to meet the mandate and meet

the test set out by the Chancellor in his emergency budget, we have

some of the lowest interest rates in Europe. For every percentage

point they went up under Labour, that will be another �1,000 on a

family mortgage, another �7 billion out of business and another �21

billion out and on to our national debt. That is why this government

will take this country to the -- He is borrowing an extra �158

billion to pay for his economic failure! The truth is, Mr Speaker,

his plan has failed. He refuses to change course, and he is making

working families pay the price. At the very least, we now know he will

never ever be able to say again, "we are all in this together".

Leigh Park of the Labour Party has taken sides today. He is on the

side of the trade union leader that once strikes and not negotiations.

He is on the side of people who want to disrupt our schools,

disrupt our bodies -- borders, disrupts our country. When it comes

to borrowing, he can't even bring himself to say that we are

welcoming low interest rates. The shadow chancellor... Mr Speaker,

they are all shouting in unison. Or should that be, they are all

shouting on behalf of Unison? Let me just remind the House of what

the shadow Chancellor said about lower interest rates. The shadow

Chancellor said, "long-term interest rates are the simplest

measure of monetary and fiscal policy credibility". That is what

he said, and that is what this Government is delivering. We are

being tested by this difficult economic times. We will meet that

test by getting on top of our debt, getting on top of our deficit. He

is being tested, too. He is showing that he is weak, left-wing and

irresponsible. Order! A good like to associate myself with the words

of condolence from the Prime Minister and the leader of the

opposition. 10 years on from military intervention, more than 3

million Gulls from Afghanistan are now in school. With the conference

on Monday, will the Prime Minister sent a clear message that the

rights of those girls should not be traded away in a false choice

between women's rights and security, when the evidence shows that

women's involvement in this conflict resolution is essential

for stability. Can I wish my Honourable Friend, and everyone in

Scotland, a very happy St Andrews Bay. She is right to talk about

women's rights in Afghanistan. All too often we talk about security,

but without talking about some of the things that security is making

possible. It is the case that, whereas in 2001, there were less

than one million children in school, none of them girls in Afghanistan,

but today there are 6 million children regularly in school, 2

million of whom are goals. -- girls. All of us who have been to

Afghanistan and met leaders who want to stand up for rights in

Afghanistan know what an incredible job they are doing, and we are on

their side. According to the 0BR half a million more people will be

on the dole in 2013 than previously thought. A terrible human cost, but

how much more will be lost in tax and paid out in benefits as a

result of his Chancellor's economic failure? What the OBR shows is that

by 2015 we will have half a million more people in jobs, fewer people

on the claimant count and a low and a prime it right. But the figures

do show a sharp decline in public sector employment. That is shown by

the figures. There is a much bigger increase in private sector

employment. What I would say to the party opposite and to everyone in

this House, if you want to reduce the amount of Anna Bligh emerged

from the public sector you have to reform welfare -- the him out of

unemployment. You have to freeze public sector pay and you have to

reform public sector pensions. the Prime Minister aware that in

the last financial year taxpayers paid over �113 million to trade

unions in terms of paid staff time. In the light of today's disruptions

to hospitals and schools, is it not time to review that situation?

think it is time. I think the idea of full-time trade unionists

working in the public sector on a trade union business, rather than

serving the public, is not right, and we will put that to an end. It

is absolutely the case. I think the evidence today makes that even

stronger. Why is the Government freezing working tax credit which

helps the lowest paid workers, including those whose wages are too

low even to pay tax? At the Honourable Lady will know, what

we're dealing with child tax credit, if you take this year and next year,

there is going to be the �255 increase this year, which is the

largest ever increase in child tax credits, and there will be a

further �135 increase next year. I think that is actually the right

increase in terms of child tax credits, and in terms of helping

those families and genuinely helping people get out of poverty

and stay out of poverty, helping on nursery education, helping that

low-paid people out of tax. That is even more valuable. As the United

Kingdom's borders are being kept open today by patriotic volunteers,

will the Prime Minister to consider imitating the robust action of the

late US President Ronald Reagan in relation to recalcitrant air

traffic controllers? I do want to thank all those people, including a

number of people from Number Ten Downing Street, who are actually

helping to keep our borders open and to make sure that Heathrow and

Gatwick are working properly. Perhaps I could report to the House

that, so far, the evidence would suggest that about 40% of schools

are open, less than a third of the civil service is actually striking.

On our borders, the early signs are that the contingency measures are

minimising the impact. We have full cover in terms of ambulance

services, and only 18 out of 900 Jobcentres have closed. Despite the

disappointment of the party opposite, that looks like something

of a damp squib. Can I ask the Prime Minister if he came into

politics to sack three quarters of a million civil and public sector

workers, most of whom are women and have families? I came into politics

to try and improve the welfare of people in our the fact is, at the

end of this public sector pension reform, those people working in the

public sector will have far better pensions than most people in the

private sector who are contributing that money to them. I know you are

paid to ask questions, you don't have to be paid to wave as well.

That is the point. I will come down. You give the money back to the

unions and I will come down. -- calm it down. Will my right

honorable Friend join me in condemning the outrageous attack on

our embassy in Tehran yesterday, and join me in paying tribute to

our diplomatic staff serving in such difficult environments with

such distinction? I certainly join my Honourable Friend in doing that.

I am sure that the whole House will join me in praising the incredible

devotion of our staff in the foreign and diplomatic Service who

often face great danger, as they did yesterday in to run. I chaired

a meeting yesterday and another this morning and spoke to our

ambassador about the safety of the staff. That should be our priority

- their safety and security, and making sure those are maintained.

After that, we will consider taking some tough action in response to

this completely appalling and disgraceful behaviour by the

Iranians. Order. Closed questions. Graham Allen. I lead a committee of

Cabinet ministers to look specifically at family issues

including the importance of early intervention. It is central to what

this government is trying to achieve. We believe that if you

change the life chances of the least well-off, you have a better

chance of genuinely lifting and people out of poverty and keeping

them there. I take a close interest, as do my right honorable friends

the education secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the

work of the Honourable Gentleman and the very real difference he has

made in terms of prioritising early intervention in our country. Can I

thank all three party leaders for their consistent support for early

intervention. I I asked the Prime Minister to make early intervention

with babies, children and young people a theme for all departments

in the next Comprehensive Spending Review so that, not only will all

children be able to make the best of their life chances, but also

government and the taxpayer will be able to reduce the massive costs of

failure, including educational under-achievement, the 120,000

dysfunctional families, some as of discontent, and many lifetimes

wasted on benefits? I think the Honourable Gentleman makes a

sensible suggestion. I think we can look at that in terms of the next

spending round, but frankly I don't even want to wait for that, and

that is why the family committee that I lead and that the Deputy

Prime Minister sits on as well is actually looking at how we can make

things by the intervention on the 120,000 neediest most broken

families, how we can make that effective. The Government's plans a

huge amount of money on these families, but we are not satisfied

that money is being spent actually intervening in those families and

trying to turn them round to solve their very real problems. We have a

programme for doing that right now, but I hope he will continue with

his positive work. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister will be aware that

there remains 16 British overseas territories around the world where

the Union Flag still proudly flies. Will he pledged that her Majesty's

government will protect, defend and cherish the loyal subjects of all

of those territories? I can happily give my Honourable Friend that

guarantee. Let me add that the overseas territories and will

remain British as long as the people of those territories want to

maintain their special relationship with us and the Union Flag will

continue to fly over the Governor's residence is. We are increasing our

assistance to overseas territories. You will be familiar want what

we're doing in a St Helena with the airport, and next year we will have

the anniversary of the liberation of the Falklands Islands, and that

will be a moment for genuine celebration. Mr Speaker, my

constituent Jackie asked me how she is going to manage with a 3% tax on

her pension, no pay increase until 2013, and rocketing food and fuel

bills. How will she feed her family? Why is the Fire Minister

making people like Jackie pay for his Government's failure? -- Prime

Minister. The fact is, the whole country is having to pay for the

failure of the last government to get on top of debt and deficit.

What I would say it did a constituent is that we are trying

to help, that is why we have reason the council tax, that is why be a

cut in the petrol tax, taking 1.1 million of the poorest people out

of tax altogether, that is why we are increasing the child tax credit

in the way that I said, and we will continue to take all those steps.

What I would say to all constituents is that the most

dangerous thing we could do right now is lose control of our debts

and see interest rates go up. When this government came to power our

interest rates were the same level of -- as Italy. Today, Italy's

interest rates were 5% higher. If that were the case, we was the

higher mortgage costs, businesses going bust, and a real problem in

this country. That is the policy of the party opposite. What message

does the Prime Minister have today for the thousands of people who run

and work in small businesses in my constituency who worked

tremendously hard to keep those businesses and the local economy

going, and who can barely afford to make provision for their own

pensions? I think the Honourable Lady is entirely right, that this

government is squarely on the side of people who work hard, play by

the Rolls, who want to do the right thing for their families. To all

those people, I would say to them today, thank you for what you do to

contribute to public sector pensions that are far more generous

than anything you are able to afford, but for our part, we

promise to make sure that public sector pensions remain strong but

are affordable. What is so notable about today is the party opposite

has taken the side of trade union leaders that want to actually

Is the Prime Minister aware that �100 million would pay for five new

Hawk planes to be built for hour Red Arrows? Isn't that a good use

of the money? I strongly support British

Aerospace and everything they do. It is a strong British company and

they have the full backing of the British government and an enormous

order book from us in terms of the Strategic Defence Review. Also

baccy DEC -- also backing from us in terms of selling aircraft all

over the world. There have been issues and difficulties. That is

why we put in an enterprise zone and we will do everything we can to

help that company. Will the Prime Minister share my

belief that until recently the leader of the opposition should

know now is not the time to strike until negotiations are completed?

The Honourable Gentleman makes a good point. In case anybody didn't

get it the first term, these strikes are wrong at a time when

big decisions are going on. Negotiations are going wrong so the

leader of the opposition should think they are wrong. He doesn't

think they are wrong because he is in the pocket of the trade union

leaders. Home help, carers, nurses and

teachers are on strike for the first time in their life. These

hard working people... We hear laughter from the other side but it

is no laughing matter for hard- working families. These hard-

working people have been demonised by eight parties but they are hard

working people and enough is enough. I know people feel strongly about

this but we have a responsibility to deliver an affordable public

sector pensions system. We have rejected the idea of levelling down

public sector pensions. What we will deliver in terms of public

sector pensions is a generous and fair offer which will give public

sector pensioners, unlike others in the country, a defined benefits

system. That is why Lord Hutton says this is an incredibly generous

offer. What a pity the party opposite has left reality and will

not back that view. The Prime Minister will know I have

held an event in my constituency and small businesses have been

complaining about the red tape and bureaucracy they have to jump

through. What message can the Prime Minister has sent to these

businesses as they look to rebuild the economy to get rid of some of

these obstructions and nonsense? Where honourable friend is right to

raise this. That is what we have introduced the red tape challenge

so that these rules are published on mind and businesses and

individuals can tell us which can be scrapped without harming public

safety. At the same time, we have the one in, one out rule. They will

have to introduce one after they have scrapped in regulation. That

will help businesses to employ more people in this country.

The Prime Minister said the additional �110 rise in tax credits

would help have an impact on child poverty. Now he is taking that away

and raising tax credit, how many more children will be in poverty in

the next year? child tax credit is it will be �390

higher than the time of the last election. That is a �250 -- �255

increase this year, the largest ever in the child tax credit. We

are adding another one under �35 next year. That is what is

happening in terms of child tax credit. Let me make this point in

addition. If you increase the pension, you seek child poverty

figures go up under the definition used by the party opposite. I think

it is right we increase the pension. I don't think you harm the life

chances of children by giving pensioners what we have given, a

record cash increase in pensions next year.

Can I ask the Prime Minister to insure this House remains a free

and democratic institution accountable only to the does and

does he share my indignation that some members had to ask permission

from the union to be here today? Order. There is a matter of basic

courtesy here. The question from the honourable lady should be heard.

I think she has completed her question. It really is a lesson for

the future when questions are being asked, they should be heard with

courtesy. When the answers are given, whatever members think of

them, they should be heard with courtesy.

I think it is genuinely baffling to people that somebody who said they

wouldn't back strike action while negotiations were under way has

come to the House of Commons today to speak on behalf of trade union

leaders. I want to say it is a flashback to Neil Kinnock but even

he wasn't as bad as that. Does the Prime Minister think it

fair that the Chancellor yesterday decided to take just 300 million

extra from the banks and 1.3 billion from working families in

this country? Is that a fair distribution?

If you look at what the Chancellor announced, he announced we would be

taking to �0.5 billion of the banks, not in one year because of the

bonus tax but every single year. It is this Government properly putting

a tax on the banks and the party opposite that year after year they

gave knighthoods to Fred Goodwin, didn't regulate the banks, didn't

tax then probably and give us the biggest boom and bust we are having

to recover from. While I welcome the reduction in

corporation tax and I'm sure that will encourage businesses to expand,

90 % of the businesses in my constituency are not incorporated

and went benefit from that tax reduction. Will the Prime Minister

insure that in the spring Budget, these budgets are given a similar

tax incentives so they can insure they can grow to their full

potential in the economy and the communities they serve.

Can I praise the honourable gentleman for the money litigant --

magnificent specimen lurking under his nose. We are not going to wait

for the budget in order to help these small businesses. We've

already extended the rate relief freeze for small businesses and the

National loan guarantee scheme which will help small businesses

get access to credit. Order.

A slightly longer than normal session of Prime Minister's

Questions. Those surprises that the Autumn Statement and the public

sector strikes dominating proceedings with some light relief

in the moustache has grown by some Welsh MPs. Plenty to discuss in the

studio. Thank you, Tomos. Alun Ffred Jones,

strikes and the economy dominate. Some pretty harsh attacks got from

the Prime Minister on Ed Miliband. Irresponsible, left-wing and week.

He said it twice. I'm not sure whether Ed Miliband would accept

left wing as an insult but it seemed like it to me.

It is just the banter of Question Time. I do not particularly admire

David Cameron but he is effective on his feet and he likes to attack

Ed Miliband for below at the mercy of everybody else. The truth is he

did condemn the strikes. He is in a difficult condition and today he

seems to be almost backing them. His position wasn't a strong one.

Antoinette Sandbach, the Prime Minister laid into the unions over

their strike. Do you agree with him?

I do. As he pointed out, negotiations are still ongoing.

They were talking to the unions yesterday and will talk to them

tomorrow. It is clear from Lord Hutton's report that there were

difficult questions that needed to be addressed in relation to public

sector pensions and it seems wrong to to have been striking in the

middle of those negotiations. And sure many on the Labour benches

would be thanking Lord Hutton for his contribution. The Autumn

statement came yesterday. Ed Miliband attacked the Prime

Minister on his failure, as Ed Miliband saw it, to balance the

books by the end of the parliament. That could come back to haunt him?

He can't have it both ways. He also attacked him on the increased

borrowing taking place. The reality is that there has been a public

expenditure programme which has been brought forward largely in

relation to supporting jobs, in particular the National loan

guarantee scheme which will help small businesses get finance to

small businesses. Why is it happening now?

I think it is quite clear there has been a huge change of circumstances

with the euro-zone countries. The debt storm is really what is

causing the major problems, as the Office of budget responsibility

pointed out. Do you think the government has

abandoned plan a, as they have been called on to do and brought on

these public sector works? I feel like saying I told you so.

Pyecombe re has been banging on about infrastructure projects --

plied country. It is fair to say that the project is in disarray.

They would pay it back in time and the economic circumstances are

becoming worse than a year ago. This is not the Chancellor's fault,

is it? I think his plan was wrong. Trying

to pay back the debt so quickly was basically wrong. It doesn't affect

people like George Osborne. Where it hurts is at the bottom. It is

true. They come from a different background with a different point

of view for most of us. The situation is difficult. In terms of

the infrastructure impetus that he gave yesterday, it is welcome but

it is probably too small. Come back on the attack on the

Chancellor, then? I really think it is about the

policies put in place, not the person. The policies are to lift

the lowest-paid out of tax so no tax is paid at �10,000. We have

heard the additional support that was announced in relation to child

tax credits which was referred to extensively in Prime Minister's

questions. The aim is to help the public sector workers that have the

lowest pension entitlement, to protect that entitlement and to

deal with the issues that are higher up the scale.

We will come on to the strikes. If you look at the wider question,

the economy is in deep trouble. The economies of the Western world are

in deep trouble as well but the approach the Tories took it was

basically false. I know public debt is a problem, personal debt is a

problem, the Bank's debt is a problem. This was allowed to

develop over a period of years but the fact remains that unless we get

people back to work, all the anti- poverty measures we can devise will

come to nothing. That is why I welcome the small impetus that has

been given to capital projects but we will have to see how that pans

out in Wales. Very briefly.

The difficulty is that you can't borrow more to pay for your

borrowings. He has said he will extend the period over which the

borrowings are paid back but he will stick within the limits. The

aim of that is Britain has had a �20 billion benefit from being seen

as a safe haven from Europe during the Euro storm.

We have to leave it here for now. Coming up, we hear tributes to the

Wales public -- Wales football manager, Gary Speed. Before we do

that, our reporter has been out on a picket line at the Welsh

government offices in Cardiff. I am joined by the Welsh government

group president for the PCAS Union. But a lot going on for the

Government today? There are three unions out on

strike today. Not a lot of people have attended word today.

No proceedings at the Senedd? The Senedd is closed and picket

lines in Cardiff Bay. Why is everybody on strike today?

It is a pensions issue that has united the unions across the UK.

Eat is worth mentioning this is an argument with the UK coalition

government, not the world government. My decisions have been

useless. There is not much meaning from -- meaningful legacy Asian the

room. The Government have attacked our pensions and they expect us to

work longer and get less. What difference will it make to

your average worker on a monthly basis? Is beret figure you have got

in terms of how things will go up? Contributions are likely to

increase by 3%. The gold-plated myth is ridiculous. The average

pension is a �5,600. If you look at the impact on female workers, the

predominant public sector workers are female, low-paid. For them to

increase their pensions by 3%, if it was going into the pot and they

would get more at the end, it would make sense. The Hatton report said

it was affordable and the extra money would plug the deficit and

not go into any pension pot at the end. It is not acceptable.

And yet the government maintain they have made concessions. They

offered an improved deal at the beginning of the month and they are

not going to move? They need to renegotiate. There has

not been meaningful legacy Asian from the start. PCS have said that

and they were one of the first unions to ballot.

In the private sector, many people don't have pensions and they can't

afford them. Many people will think about the impact on people waiting

for operations, children at school and the economy. We are all

suffering from a deflated economy and this makes things worse.

There are two questions there. The impact on the private sector and

the public. Of course, striking is the last option. We never want to

strike. Everybody has lost pay today. It is regrettable and we

would rather be negotiating. The impact on the economy is the

alternative argument we have been trying to make. A large majority of

people in Wales are in the public sector. We have been on pay freezes,

we have higher inflation. The economy will stall. We don't have

the money, we don't have the income and that will impact the private

sector at the shops and everything. If we don't have money to spend,

everybody will feel the pinch. On the pensions issue about private

pensions, it is not a race to the bottom. It is about making sure

That was Aaron Porter earlier this morning on the picket line. Around

170,000 public-sector workers have gone on strike here in Wales Today,

everywhere from schools and hospitals through to rubbish

collection and bus services. have a great deal of respect for

the public sector workers and the job they do right across the board.

And quite angry with the union bosses that, whilst discussions are

going on about the pensions, that they are calling people out on

strike because that is going to disrupt so many families, children

and businesses right across Wales. We must remember that we are living

longer, we have faced enormous debt, we have to tackle the pensions

problem. We had a Labour pensions minister that are produced the

report, John Hutton, and I regret that they are taking this action

today, for the simple reason that negotiations are ongoing on this

very sensitive subject. Well, that is the Welsh Secretary with her

view on the strikes. My guests are here because there is no Assembly

proceedings today because of the strike. How do you feel about that?

I went into work this morning. Into the Assembly? Yes. We have been

getting on to it with the job. the picket lines that? There were

some people there when I arrived, but none when I left to come here.

Did they have anything to say to you? Know. You are not going to the

Senedd today, are you? No, I did not cross the picket line. The

devil is in the detail. Changes will come to pensions. I have

worked in the public sector and the private sector. Public sector

pensions are a much preferable place to be. But the fact is that

these negotiations, it seems to me, a very polarised. You can hear

statements made in House of Commons saying he would be much better off,

but strikers are saying they would be much worse off. Obviously, I'm

not sure where the truth lies. Office for Budget Responsibility no

-- they have looked up pay rates between public sector and private

sector. The average pay rates in the private sector gross per week

is �465. In the public sector it is over �500. When you take into

account pensions, that pay gap opens up a much wider. It is �479

if you work in the private sector, and �610 for the public. That is

not a view that many people would recognise. Those are the Office of

National Statistics figures, and they are the median gross pay rates.

In terms of pensions, there are defined benefit pensions for public

sector workers which private sector workers do not have. The average

annuity for a private sector worker is �1,200 a year. Anything to add

before we move on? I think you have to protect the lower-paid, that is

an absolute. You cannot cut... Government so they are doing now.

am not sure whether I believe them. This could run and run, but there

will be changes, no doubt. Tributes will continue to be paid to the

Wales football manager Gary Speed to died at the weekend at the age

of 42. In the world of politics yesterday in the Senedd, the

presiding Officer Rosemary Butler lead a minute's silence. It is my

sad duty today to ask you to stand and observed a minute's's silence

in memory of Gary Speed, who had great success and popularity as an

international football player and, more recently, as a successful

At Westminster, MPs also paid tribute in an early day motion,

which was tabled by the Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards. It was

important that members of Parliament had the opportunity to

pay tribute to Gary Speed for his contribution to football in Wales.

I was happy to put the motion down and hope that many members would

give their support and Honor Gary Speed in the appropriate manner.

-- let's talk to our guest. It was a tremendous shock. You will have

been in his company many times, I am sure. Yes, but I did not know

him at all. He was a consummate professional and seems to have been

well respected wherever he played amongst his peers and a marks to

the management. He seems to have been a genuinely nice guy, an

ordinary guy, he just loved football. I can only imagine the

horror of the family, but it was a deserved tribute, I think. It was

right that the Assembly mark the occasion. And when that, there was

an outpouring, wasn't there, beyond while following his death on Sunday.

It shows the respect that he had, and the regard that he was held in

across England and Wales, and elsewhere. I feel desperately sorry

for his family at this time. It is awful. We don't know what pressures

position, or what drove him, but it is such a sad loss for everybody in

Wales and in the world of football. Moving on now, we had the Autumn

Statement yesterday, as well as the government's judgment being made.

Our correspondent is in Cardiff. The budget has been laid, which

essentially means it will not be changed before the vote next year.

We know that the Government have done a deal with the Lib Dems.

Yes, there are three parts to it. The first part is to do with that

money that was coming in as a result of the council tax freeze in

England. The Government has not changed much on that. It is doing

pretty much what it would have done anyway. Then there is that extra

money that is going to Lib Dems. That follows the most disadvantaged

children in our school. The third part, given what happened in the

Autumn Statement, the most important part, was an agreement

that the Lib Dems would have a voice in how any additional money

coming into Wales as a result of the Autumn Statement is spent. We

now know that some is �300 million. We await to see what mechanisms

there will be for the Lib Dems to have that voice, and indeed whether

the Government listens closely to that voice. That is the basis of

the deal between them. We had the Panesar saying that maybe something

should be done about a portion of the M4 here in South Wales. We are

talking �200 million. Is the Government expecting that money

goes towards improvements on the M4 here? There are difficulties over

the whole question of the M4. the question of the Severn

crossings. The old Severn Bridge is entirely in England. Although the

second Severn crossing is partly in Wales, it remains the

responsibility of the Department of Transport. There is a question as

to who should pay for it. Should it be a matter for the UK government,

the Welsh government or a bit of both? There are a lot of questions

there. When you are talking about arterial questions, the same

arguments we had about the alleged vocation of the railway line, there

will have to be a lot of tough talking to talk -- to sort things

out. What are the repercussions going into local government

elections next year between Labour and the Lib Dems? The amount of

money they got, that �20 million, is nothing in terms of the Assembly

Budget. However, in terms of the schools receiving it, the sums are

quite substantial and they are broken down at school by school. It

means that a LibDem candidate will be able to go out at election time

and say that your local school got an extra �25,000 or whatever

because of this deal we made with Labour at the Assembly. Back to be

a help for the Lib Dems. Labour are targeting these wards, sensing that

if they can wipe out the Lib Dems local government presence, then the

party in Wales will be seriously weakened because the whole of the

Welsh party is built on that local government base and there are no

more local elections for another five years, most likely, after next

year. This may give them a hope of hanging on in some areas in some

wards. In this difficult time, whoever is to blame, there will be

a lifeline and keeping people in jobs. While it did Labour say no to

this? They said they did not have the money, that is what they

claimed. Then yesterday Carwyn Jones said be should have asked for

more. Really, that was our prime aim. We wanted to see capital

projects throughout Wales, and I am still in a fog as regards how this

new money from London is going to be used. What do you make of

Labour's deal with the Lib Dems. They have taken one of your allies,

haven't they? That money was given to Labour, but came here as a

result of council tax freezes in England. Some council tax payments

have doubled over the last 10 years in Wales. It is still cheaper than