Live with Huw Edwards BBC Wales Leaders' Debate

Polling day is a week tomorrow, and this is our last opportunity

to bring our leading politicians together to test their

Stand-by for the BBC Wales leaders debate 2016.

A warm welcome to St David's Hall in Cardiff for a special live

edition of The Wales Report, and a welcome to viewers

across the UK watching on the BBC News Channel.

This is where we'll be spending the next 90 minutes testing

the claims and pledges of six political parties in Wales.

Tonight we'll be considering some of the key areas controlled

by the National Assembly, the things many of you will be

voting on - the health service, jobs and education.

Joining us tonight are the leaders of the six parties in Wales -

Carwyn Jones for Labour, Alice Hooker-Stroud

for the Green Party, Nathan Gill for Ukip,

for Plaid Cymru we have Leanne Wood, Andrew RT Davies

for the Conservatives, and we have Kirsty Williams

I am adding my welcome, thank you for joining us.

We have a specially-selected studio audience - they reflect different

opinions and are drawn from different parts of Wales.

They will be providing the questions.

Each of our politicians will have time to answer before we open

And those of you watching at home or online can get involved

in the discussion - visit our live page on the BBC Wales website

and get involved on social media, the hashtag is #BBCWalesDebate.

We're going to start with an opening statement of up to one minute

This is their opportunity to set out the broad themes of their campaign -

We drew lots to decide the order and to eliminate any doubt

about timings we'll have a clock on screen so that everyone

First is Alice Hooker-Stroud for the Green Party.

To create a sustainable and fair future in Wales, we need Green

voices in the Senedd. We will bring new ideas and fresh thinking to our

Assembly. We will make sure we all have access to a warm, affordable

home. We will establish a clean energy economy, fit for the future

of Wales, and protect our public services across the country. We will

make sure that Welsh government delivers for us all, no matter where

we live, or who we are. In Westminster, Scotland, Ireland and

the EU, elected Greens have punched well above their weight. With seats

in the Senedd, we will punch well above our weight here in Wales. On

the regional ballot, in the Assembly election, you can vote for what you

believe in. If you believe in a sustainable and fair future for

Wales, give your regional vote to the Wales Green Party. Thank you.

Thank you for opening business. Carwyn Jones is next. Good evening.

Tonight in Wales, NHS staff are at work, doing what we know they always

do, going the extra mile, covering shifts, not just treating people,

but caring for people as well. Tonight in England, thousands of

junior doctors are walking home from picket lines, outside hospitals that

they normally staff, hospitals that rely on them and hospitals that the

junior doctors love working in. If there is a greater contrast between

what Labour was doing in Wales and what the Tories are doing in

England, I can't think of one. There are still challenges facing the

Welsh NHS. Unlike the Tories and Plaid Cymru, we will not say

distaff, you have to work harder to pay for cuts. We already know they

are under pressure. Unlike them, will not have wholesale

reorganisation, we will not take away decision-making from doctors in

the north of Wales and give it to bureaucrats in Cardiff. The NHS is

on the ballot paper in this election. Safe, sustainable health

services, available when needed. That is what I will be striving for,

with your support that is exactly what we will do.

Across Wales, something exciting is happening. The gap is closing

between the party that has been leading the Welsh government for 17

years and the party of Wales. The Tories have been pushed into third

place. The election next week is a two horse race between Plaid Cymru

and the party that has dominated Welsh politics for a century. They

have had their chance to turn around the economy. To end the inequalities

in health and education, between Wales and the rest of the UK. Their

time is up. We all know that this is not as good as it gets for this

country. If you agree with me that it is time for change, then vote for

it. Vote for hope. A vote for the most ambitious programme of

government. Vote for vision, vote for confidence. We have ten days to

go before you can take the opportunity to back our cancer

contract, our plan for an extra 1000 doctors, 5000 nurses, free social

care, for excellence in teaching and our blueprint to turn around the

Welsh economy. Back Plaid Cymru for the change Wales needs. Thank you

very much. Thank you. Next week, you have the

opportunity to vote. Now you have the opportunity to put a fresh, new

party into the Assembly. Without a Ukip, we would not be having a

referendum on our EU membership in June. Without Ukip, policies on

immigration would still be a taboo to talk about. We have already

managed to change things without actually having people elected here,

in Westminster and in the Assembly. We have punched well above our

weight as a party. When we get into the Assembly, we will be able to do

that, and be your voice, which has been so lacking. You know in your

heart that voting the same old way will not change anything here in

Wales. This is your chance to shake things up, pull the other parties to

account, and be part of a change that Wales deserves. Thank you.

Next for the Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams.

Good evening. You have told me you want smaller class sizes for your

children. You want dignified care from our NHS. You just want the

opportunity to get on in life. I have listened, and my party, the

Welsh Liberal Democrats, has listened. Our priorities are your

priorities. We will cut class sizes. We will put more nurses into our

community. We will create an opportunity economy that supports

Wales's small businesses and ensures that everyone has a home of their

own. Remember, we were the only party that voted against the unfair

?10,000 pay rise for Assembly Members, because we know it is time

to do things differently, it is time for somebody to stand for people.

So, this time, support the Welsh Liberal Democrats and help us

deliver a Wales that will work for you.

And finally Andrew RT Davies for the Conservatives.

Good evening. It is a real privilege to be here tonight. I have a very

simple message. We can carry on with business as usual for the next five

years, or we can vote next week to secure real change, for you, your

family and your community. We can't carry on with business as usual. It

has seen a lazy Labour Government run things since the dawn of

devolution. If you want to protect NHS spending, have real terms

increases, if you want decent quality jobs, with decent take-home

pay, excellence in education, security and dignity in old age, you

need to vote Welsh Conservative next Thursday. Labour are only one vote

away from losing the control of the Senedd. There is everything to vote

for next Thursday. If you want to secure a better, brighter future for

you, your family and your community, then you need to vote Welsh

Conservative. You are the bosses, you are in charge. Let's vote to

make this happen. Thank you very much. Six opening statements. You

have covered a range of things already. I think the sensible thing

is for us to start with health. It is such a big issue. Carwyn Jones

referred to sell the headlines recently to do with junior doctors

in England, but there are many other issues here as well.

Onto our first question of the evening.

It's from Dr Ata Mazz, a paediatric consultant.

Your question first of all, and then, to explain to you, this is

where I needed to cooperate, I will take concise answers. I will start

with Kirsty and we will work our way down. On the next question, we will

start with Andrew and work our way around, before we ask for comments

from the audience. Your question? What specific steps will you take if

you come in to the government to ensure the pressure on hospitals is

relieved and the NHS is sustainable for the future? Before you answer,

given that you are someone with hands-on experience, if you were to

ask people in practical terms for some changes, what would be at the

top of your list, in the NHS in Wales? The A waiting times, GP

waiting times and referral patterns, that would be on top of my priority

list. When you talk about relieving pressure, you are talking

principally about waiting times in those areas? I am, yes. Kirsty?

Thank you. Thank you for the question. One of the ways we can

help reduce pressure in A department is making sure we get the

family doctor system right in Wales. Often people go to A because it is

the only part of the NHS open for them. That is why we want to create

an access to GP fund, to allow GP surgeries to employ more staff in

the primary care team, to allow them to see more patients. How much money

in that fund, to illustrate? We want to start with ?10 million per year.

Would that make a big difference? We could have a GP that currently

spends an afternoon doing medical reviews, if he could have a

pharmacist doing that, he could use that afternoon to see patients. We

also need more staff. I have been championing nurses and hospital

wards. We need to pass that law. I want to see that extended to the

community. We also need to address the issue of mental health in Wales.

Many people in Wales who suffer from a mental health problem do not have

access to the services they need. We want to create parity between

physical and mental health, so they are treated equally, the same. More

importantly than anything, I want to take politics out of our NHS.

People's health is too important. If we are to create a sustainable NHS

for the future, we need to stop arguing, sit around the table with

professionals like you, and the patients of Wales, to design a

service that will be sustainable and deliver the first-class health care

we all deserve. APPLAUSE Thanks. There were three key ideas

there. Taking politics out is an interesting one to think about. Our

commitment is to protect the NHS budget, commissioners of NHS

services need to know that they have the resources for the service. That

would run like the way through the five years of the whole Assembly, so

different from the last five years, at the start of the Assembly, there

were devastating cuts. In the first year, they took one ?140 million

out. You have to make sure the resources can be conditioned. Then

you move into what services you want to recommission. We would not have a

wholesale reorganisation of the Health Service. I don't think the

Health Service needs that, it needs it like a hole in their head. We

have had two reorganisations already, it will not be third time

lucky. What we also need to do is tackled the four big killers,

dementia, stroke, cardiac and cancer, to make sure people are more

aware of the responsibilities that they need to take themselves, so

that we can, slowly but surely, increase the public health of Wales.

At the moment, demand is spiralling out of control. We would also reopen

minor injury units to take the pressure off A departments. Above

all, we would work with the health boards, importantly, to retain

staff, as well as recruiting. There was a lot of focus on recruiting

staff, rightly so, the retention of community staff and of staff across

the Health Service in Wales is a huge issue. If we haven't got that

resource dedicated staff, to a professional standard, how can

people have the treatment? One in seven people are on a waiting list

in Wales, we can't afford to happen again in the next five years because

they have doubled over the last five years.

Thank you. Several points, I would like to come back to some of the

spending things. Leanne? In principle, Plaid Cymru believes in a

free and public health service. We want an opportunity to run the

health service in Wales, Labour has run it down through their programme

of centralisation. Don't forget, we have seen Labour politicians

protesting outside hospitals at the Labour Government's Hospital

centralisation plans. We know that the Tories would sell it off, as

they are in England. It is not unusual in some places in Wales to

wait three or four macro weeks for a GP appointment. A weights have

recently in reported to be their worst ever. -- A waiting times. It

is about the stuff, for me. Plaid Cymru wants to invest in recruitment

and training of extra. Ozen notices, but also in the social care system,

ending that historical knowledge -- anomaly where some care is free and

the rest has to be paid for. Investing in staff is key to cutting

down waiting times. Thank you, Leanne. Thank you for

those points. I am sure there will be responses when I come to you.

Nathan, and an appeal, concise. We believe strongly in an NHS that is

free at the point of delivery, free for all of us, and NHS that

basically fulfils the needs that we have. I, like you, depend on the

NHS. I have a condition in which, if I did not use the NHS almost daily,

I would be in big trouble. I know that 80% of the work done in the NHS

is by GPs, yet they get 20% of the budget, roughly. We need to support

them, to insure that we have enough. Currently we only have 136 new GPs

coming into circulation in Wales, we need at least 200 year being trained

up. Or importantly, concisely, to finish, we completely and utterly

oppose the transatlantic trade and investment partnership, which if it

goes ahead, will see the privatisation of our NHS. We are the

only party that has opposed it all the way through, and the only way

you can fully oppose it, hang on, the only way you can fully oppose it

is by leaving the EU on the 23rd of June.

Thank you. I am bad to say this, aren't I? We will be back here in a

few weeks' time and having a referendum debate -- I am bound to

say this. I know there will be references as we go along... It is

relevant to the NHS. I am not denying that, but let's focus

precisely on these issues. Alice? Focusing precisely on the

Assembly's whoa, I would like to take it a step back, stepping back

from hospitals to GPs, transferring care that way. I would like to take

a step further back and say that we need to be looking at creating a

healthy society. Making sure people have access to health care when they

needed, not just free at the point of use but across Wales, in rural

areas as well as urban areas is very important. We need to look at the

health of our society. For me, that means looking at things from the

perspective of Public health, making sure we have warm, affordable homes

that make sure people don't get ill, making sure we have secure

employment for people so they don't have such issues, perhaps, with

anxiety which leads to mental health problems. We need to make sure we

have safe cycling and walking routes around communities and in between

schools and where people live so that they can have a more active

life. This all brings together a picture of a healthier society in

Wales, tackling the root cause before going into the NHS system,

before we require that health care. Last point? Last point. When we do

talk about health care, we need to be careful about the targets we are

setting. On waiting times, obviously we had to improve them in Wales, it

is the support required. Labour has a history of publishing lofty

legislation but not giving anyone resources to deliver. It is about

giving people fair wages, good working conditions, enough support

staff, ongoing training through their career in the NHS. Thank you,

you make several points, thank you. If I may, for viewers as well, the

question was about relieving pressure, and our colleagues Doctor

said it is all about relieving pressure in A waiting times and GP

waiting times. Some of your ministers have been on the defensive

in those areas, what is your message tonight? One issue was money, in

2011 we spent 42% of budget on health, it is now 46%. We have more

GPs per head than England and are about on a par with Scotland. It is

not all about diverting pressure on to GPs and doctors. We need to make

that people get the right treatment at the right place at the right

time. There are models in Wales where there are GPs in a building,

community pharmacists, occupational Herath -- occupational health

therapists, physiotherapists. For some people a pharmacist or GP

practice nurses the first point of call, which relieves the pressure on

GPs and A, letting people go to the right person at the right time

and health centres. Are you disappointed on your progress with

A waiting times, for example? It is a challenge in Wales and

elsewhere, England has just published its worst figures. What

has it got to do with England? It is important that we take pressure of

A It has gone up by 7% every year in the last few years, you can't

expect to meet those challenges just by pouring money in.

You need to make sure some people do not go to A in the first place.

Many people who go are elderly, we have introduced an intermediate care

fund which helps people to get the care they need at home so they do

not get into a situation where they have to go to A Taking pressure

from hospitals and general practitioners is important.

De Vos back to the question, if I may, then we will take comments. --

back to the question. You have heard six rather different responses, what

would you pick out something that you feel to be relevant and helpful

and something which may be less relevant and less helpful? That is

tricky. The Pogba Plaid Cymru leader made was closer to my -- the point

of the Plaid Cymru leader made was closer to my heart. The Labour

minister has more experience, but it is not working and need to go

further. What would you do to alleviate waiting times in A, is

the system not working efficiently or does there need to be just more

investment? There has to be change. The problems that need dealing with

outside A should be dealt with that said A There should be more

you active slots made available for people so they do not have to go to

A Thank you. Concise comments, my friends? The gentleman with the

glasses and the pullover, then I will be on this side, the lady with

a blue dress and the black hair. Yes, sir? In 2009 we had a

reorganisation of the health boards, 22 down to seven or eight. The

largest of those, Betsi Cadwaladr, is in special measures. What good

has that done for us? Last week I went to my GP. He referred me for an

x-ray. The same afternoon I had the x-ray in a hospital which is fitter

than 19 centuries rather than the 21st. -- fit for the 19th-century

rather than the 21st. I thought it was an excellent service, then I was

told that the x-ray would be returned in three to four weeks.

What are they doing? It is an issue of management. Who will tackle the

management? Is the management issue, for you, the one with Betsi

Cadwaladr as well? Presumably they changed it to improve the management

and it has not. I would like to ask a treatment

concerning the treatment of cancer patients in Wales. At the moment,

Bevan, standing in Queen Street, will be hanging his head in shame at

the way that cancer patients are given treatment in Wales. We are

lagging behind England, there are drug treats its you can have across

the border which you cannot have in this country. There are people in

bed right now who are ill and would be a lot better off if they were in

England. When I voted for devolution, which I did, and was

proud to do, I did not expect to have second-rate health care in this

country... Welsh macro -- SPEAKS IN WELSH. What will you do to sort this

out? APPLAUSE

Over the years lots of people have come forward to talk about the

availability of drugs, weather there should be a Cancer Drugs Fund, that

is a big issue, what is your direct answer?

This is not the standard of care that cancer patients deserve in

Wales? You will get cancer treatment more quickly and Wales, all the

figures show that, you get access to approved cancer drugs more quickly

in Wales. You are more likely to be seen within target when it comes to

getting that treatment. A Cancer Drugs Fund is finished in England,

it ended because it did not work. That is not the case... It is the

case. ?8 million will provide funding for life-threatening

conditions. Cancer is important, I know full well in my own family that

it kills, but there are other life-threatening conditions. Once

those drugs are approved, and the drugs and treatments are rolled out,

it will enter postcode lottery. The Cancer Drugs Fund has worked in

England, it was only time-limited. They are bringing forward new

proposals. Patients have gone from Wales to include to get a postcode

to get the treatments, as the lady identified. It is a tough nut in

clap, -- tough nut to crack, one in three of us will have an episode of

cancer, going down to one in two. We have championed for cancer drugs to

be available in Wales, we want to extend that to a cancer treat them

to plan right from diagnostics to drug availability, Darren Tian ?100

million over five years. You cannot brush it under the carpet, you have

not made the Krugman said you have been a charge for 17 years. Kirsty?

-- you have not made improvements and you have been a charge for 17

years. We have had to fight tooth and nail to establish a health

technology fund so that cancer patients can have the up to date

radiotherapy techniques which are commonplace in England, patients in

Wales were not getting. There are cancer surgical techniques not being

delivered in Wales. I know a family that was left to beg, beg, for their

36-year-old son, a father of two, to get the cancer operation that he

needed. It should not be who shout the loudest, it should be a right

for every Walsh patient. Reorganisation does not fix things,

it takes managers' eyes off the ball. We need the rental is focus of

service delivery, that this mean the Plaid Cymru plans of handing over

all our hospitals to be run by Cardiff. That is a disaster in rural

Wales. Andrew says he does not want reorganisation, but he

wants to put a politician in charge of each health board. We do not need

a reorganisation, it is like the hole in the head. We don't need a

politician... We would not support Labour, would you support Labour

like you did in the last Assembly? We need less politics in the Welsh

NHS, not more. APPLAUSE

LeAnn...? I want the response, but given we

have talked about reorganisation, you want one health board for all of

Wales? We recognise that the health service at the moment is not

working. There needs to be a much closer relationship between the

health service and the social care services, and all the parties agreed

that a health and social services need to be integrated, but Plaid

Cymru is the only party with a concrete plan to do exactly that. I

would like to answer the question put about cancer specifically. Just

the week before last I met a campaigner up in Betsi Cadwaladr. He

has had to move to England for treatment for cancer. It is an

absolute scandal that patients in Wales do not get the same level of

treatment as patient is in other parts of the UK. But there are big

resource issues? Yes, but it is a question of priorities. The First

Minister is incomplete denial about this being a problem. Every time we

question him in the Assembly, he is in denial. There is a postcode

lottery for drugs in Wales. He does not want to end that postcode

lottery, Plaid Cymru does. In the assembly Plaid Cymru has

voted against the Cancer Drugs Fund for Wales, and have supported Labour

motions that have cut the cancer budget. That is not fair.

The cancer drug fund put forward by the Tories is the same one as the

one in England. Ours looks at treatment of other diseases as well,

you are not comparing like-for-like. Not if you have hepatitis C. Hang on

a second, guys. Need a quality for all patients. Nobody gets it without

equality. It is not going to work if we talk across each other. First

Minister, you have been accused of being in denial. I am going to take

some more questions on health, as long as you promise to be concise. I

have explained how to end the postcode lottery, through the new

treatment and we are proposing. I have sat on the Assembly for five

years. Andrew talks about budgets, he watched the budget being cut by

10% by his own party and said absolutely nothing at all about it.

I take it with a huge pinch of salt, what he says about not cutting

budgets. Leanne makes the point that she wants to take over government to

run health, but then she would just handed over to a giant quango. It

would sit there, running the Health Service from Cardiff, you would

abdicate responsibility for running the Health Service. I would rather

spend money on patients, rather than that. We want the health minister to

be responsible for health. We want the government back to take

responsibility. So why are you creating a giant quango? It's not a

condo, it is democratic responsibility. Where would it be

based? It is the NHS, all over Wales! It would be based in Cardiff,

wouldn't it? That was a direct accusation about is sitting by and

not protecting the budget. We were left a terrible financial legacy by

Labour in 2010. They took a conscious, political decision to cut

health spending. They have been in control for 17 years, waiting times

have doubled. We can't have another five years of that. Just to make it

clear, I am going to take a few more comments on health and then move the

economy. I want the young gentleman at the back, with his hand up, him.

And the gentleman with the beard, if I can say that? Right at the back,

the lady with glasses. And the gentleman there, with the very

distinguished white beard. OK, keep it concise. The original question

was about sustainability and spending on temporary staff in the

NHS has gone up 5 million over the course of this Welsh government. How

is that sustainable? How can we move towards bringing more staff into the

NHS on a full-time basis, rather than temporary. That is certainly a

challenge. Next? If Andrew Arty Davies won and became First

Minister, would he raise money for the NHS by imposing contracts on

valuable doctors and workers? No. He said no, thank you. Leanne said, and

also Carwyn, about having funding cut, but what about the money we

spend on free prescriptions for people that may not necessarily need

them? Thank you very much. Yes, sir, concise? Health, like education, is

being used as a political football. We put these people in the Assembly

to give us good National Health Service. Why in God 's name can't

they work together and provide a service that is fit for purpose?

Thank you very much. I am apologising right now, I think you

realise we could do 90 minutes on health, easily. But we have lots of

other big things to talk about. Where is Neil Woodcock? Thank you. I

know you are a steelworker. Thank you for coming along tonight.

Clearly, your industry has been right up there in the headlines, not

just here in Wales, in the UK, but internationally. Your question,

please? On a personal note, I am sad to see the panel has stopped wearing

their Save Our Steel badges. Obviously not as close to their

heart as it is to mine. With that in mind, what are the panel proposed to

do to save the industry, and also to help the 750 Steelworkers losing

their jobs this month? We are battling against the clock, starting

with Andrew this time. A very focused answer? It is vital two

governments work together at both ends of the M40 secure the security

of the plans, and we don't end up with a fire sale seeing some of them

shut. There is a great future for British Steel and Welsh steel. It is

heartening to see the level of engagement that is going on. The

government commitment of 25%, and loans being made available for

successful commercial purchasers, but it also has to come with a

package that makes sure we have protection for the steel industry to

go, anti-dumping, and the solid work that has been done on high energy

prices is continuing to make sure that its staying competitive. You

did focus on the jobs that have already been lost, it is vital that

we work to make a more dynamic economy and at the moment we need to

create decent training opportunities are people want to train and there

is not an age cap. Above all, after 17 years of Labour neglecting the

economy, we have to create an economy that makes money for the

people. Leanne? First of all extend my simply to yourself and your

colleagues, who are going through a really difficult time. I have some

understanding of how difficult that is, my father was made redundant

during the miners strike. He was not directly employed in the industry,

but it goes to show how it has a much wider ripple effect. Many other

businesses in the supply chain will be affected as well. It makes no

sense to us to import steel from other countries to use in the

infrastructure projects that this country needs, the green energy

projects, the public transport projects, all will require steel.

The tidal lagoon. We need to be using Welsh made steel in those

infrastructure projects. Plaid Cymru has been calling for the governments

at both ends of the M4 to do everything possible to sustain the

industry, considering all options, including taking an equity stake, or

part nationalisation. I am encouraged that both governments are

prepared to consider looking at that. But we were calling for this

back in January. We did lose significant time in that period. But

it is important now that everybody works together, polls together and

does what we can to save the industry. If they could bail out the

banks, they should be able to bail out our steel industry. Thank you

very much. Nathan? I'm glad to hear that Leanne is going to be voting to

leave the EU on the 23rd of June. Quite frankly, the reality is, and

you can grow and all you want, the reality is that this is a world

market, we do not control the tariffs on cheap Chinese steel. That

has been given away since 1975. You are talking about Welsh steel being

used in projects all over Britain and in Wales, that is against EU

law. You cannot do that. Other countries do it fine! Lets be honest

about it, how are we going to save steel on the 23rd of June? Vote to

leave, we will lower the tariffs on energy, and make steel so that we

can sell it on the world market, like what we are doing right now.

You are on the referendum trail again! That is the reality, we can

lie and pretend, but it is not about the ownership of Tata Steel. It is

about selling the steel on the world market. Alice? I am going to

directly disagree. I think it really is about the ownership. For me, the

problem with Tata Steel is that Tata have absolutely no reason why they

should care about the workforce and the communities where they are

based. Their bottom line is always to do with the profit for

shareholders. When the market sees fit, they will pick up and leave. We

have seen they are willing to do that. Yes, potentially looking at

nationalisation as a stopgap, or potentially a final result, in the

way that the government can support the steel industry, because it is

necessary for renewable technologies and infrastructure. Potentially,

there are other models of ownership. In your community, you could own

that planned, you could be in charge of what your own job is. The

sustainability of job relies on the fact that can create an economy in

Wales that can use that steel. You can have ownership over that. There

is a huge opportunity in Wales to build up our renewable

infrastructure, use that steel in Wales and create many more jobs

across our country. Thank you, Alice. Back to the question, Carwyn

Jones, what are you doing to ensure you can save these jobs if you are

still in power? I grew up a few miles down the road from a

steelworks, and I can't imagine porthole but without its steelworks.

Is horrific -- I can't imagine Port Talbot without its steelworks. The

second part of your question, what about the 750 workers, we don't know

how many of those will be retirement or voluntary redundancy. We have put

in an enterprise zone in Port Talbot. What needs to be done?

Firstly, taking the pension liability out of the way. The UK

Government have indicated they will do that. We need to make sure that

energy prices drop, because they are higher than Germany and Spain, we

can't expect to produce goods if our energy prices are that high. We have

been telling the UK Government is for five years. Now they understand.

Labour Government! The reality is, Germany and Spain have low energy

prices, we have to deal with that. When it comes to tariffs, it was not

the EU that voted against having tariffs, it was the UK Government.

The UK caused the problem, not the EU. The EU wanted to support the

steel industry. The UK Government, in fairness, understand they need to

change their minds. For me, it is about saving jobs, not party

political point scoring. I will work with the Tories on this, because I

know that saving jobs is more important. Let's make sure we start

building infrastructure, like The Lagoon, like electrification, making

sure that our steel has a market, not just in the UK, but worldwide as

well. A comment from Kirsty, and then from the floor? I recently went

to the Tata planned in Port Talbot to meet with the union and

management. There is a bright future for the blast furnaces. It can be

turned into a profitable business once again and we can produce steel

Pier. And we need to. It is a very foolish government and country

indeed that would not save its own steel industry. We need to produce

our own food, energy and steel in an uncertain world in which we live.

What can we do? 750 jobs have already gone. Should there be a

successful sale, and I hope that there is, there is no guarantee

there will not be more job losses to follow. What can we do? We created

an economic regeneration company to help the businesses in the area to

develop and take on those people. We can take business rates off band and

machinery. It would help Tata, but also help managers across Wales to

create jobs. We do need an industrial policy, Westminster and

the Welsh government. We need to build things in our country. Use the

steel to build products we can sell to the rest of the world. I must

say, Nathan Gill personally voted against anti-dumping measures in

2014. It is all very well to come here and talk about leaving the

European Union. You are in that parliament, you had a chance and you

voted against anti-dumping measures. Shame on you. Shame on you.

Shame on you for not doing your research properly. I was not an MEP

in January 20 14. I was in July. I did not vote on it. Absolutely not.

Let's be realistic about this. They are all in Lala land. If you cannot

sell your steel on the world markets because you are not competitive...

The market you want to cut as off from! Why are you certainly bothered

about saving steel justly before an election? What about the other eight

major steel and metal refineries in Wales you that close? Name three!

Why is it that you and... You have your number is wrong! Comments,

concise, if you please. The gentleman here in the centre, the

gentleman in the front, then the gentleman with the glasses. And I am

looking for one, there has to be a lady wanting to take part as well?

Anyway, we will start here. The former First Minister suggested

making an enterprise zone of Port Talbot. His Government tried to make

an Aerospace enterprise zone in the Vale of Glamorgan. It has been an

absolute failure. They all have. It created around 60 permanent job

since it was involved. Waste of money in time, you are saying? Yes.

And you? Any member of that panel who

supports continued EU membership cannot be honest about wanting to

save our steel industry, that is a fact. Thank you. Yes, you? Just

making the point about political opportunism, you listen to this lot,

nothing is about politics. Carwyn Jones, just jumping on the

bandwagon. Tony Benn, 1978, he closed my father's steelworks.

Labour do not have an unblemished record. What I go for tonne steel?

What is the answer? If you listen, nothing is do with politics. -- what

are your thoughts on steel? Carwyn Jones keep shifting the blame. We

know it is all politics. This lady? Vista debuts, you said you wanted

parties to work together, Conservative and Labour, yet I think

it was yesterday, your leader in England arrived in Port Tolbert, he

did not tell the First Minister, he only heard about it on Twitter, am I

right in saying that? Yes, I did invite him to come to Port Talbot.

But then he went into a private meeting with yourself, no cameras

allowed, and in Prime Minister's Questions time he said he could not

guarantee the future of the steelworks unless all parties work

together, yet he did not meet with the First Minister. Thank you for

making that point. Where is Ian Williams? That is you? You are

getting two bites at this. That is a bit of a treat! Some of you have

mentioned this, but go ahead? I'm concerned that our

infrastructure and transport links What will you do to make sure Wales

has the infrastructure it needs Thank you. Leanne, I am starting

with you, and I really do want you to speak for about 30 seconds,

otherwise we will have no time for any other comments. It is an

infrastructure point, some of you have touched on it already.

Infrastructure, Leanne? We want to build a national infrastructure

commission planned for the whole of Wales, to make sure that spending is

more even throughout the country. We want to stop the billion pounds

black route and fall project -- black route M4 project, to deal with

congestion in Newport we want to go for the cheaper blue route which

will free up millions of pounds to spend an infrastructure in other

parts of the country. The way infrastructure money is spent is

very unfair at the moment, we want to equalise that to make sure that

all parts of Wales benefit. I think it is fair to say that lots of the

reporting has focused on Newport and the M4, which is very important, but

there are big issues in North Wales with infrastructure as well?

Absolutely, I am glad that Leanne agrees with us that the blue route

is the better route to go for. Why will be spent ?1 billion on

structure funding in the south where we have huge problems in the North,

the auto macro 55 will probably know how horrendous that can be. -- the

A55. The A470, why is it easier and quicker to go to England and down

and across them through our beautiful country. What is the

answer and what would you spend? Pounces what we will have available,

not just in the South. -- ?600 million is what we will have

available. If you have people coming to the

country, as many as the size of Cardiff and Swansea together, they

are adults, grown-ups, they need cars, they will use them, it is

obvious that the chip will not be able to support them. -- the

infrastructure will not be. If you added millions of extra cars every

year, we will have chip problems. Unless you are building roads for

that, how on earth in the world will meet... We manage? Alice? We think

we need to establish a Wales wide fund for infrastructure, we already

have a lot of money invested to pension funds in public authorities,

such as local authorities and the wider public sector. In local public

authorities we have around ?500 million invested in fossil fuel

companies across the world, we could take those funds out and use them in

the fund for share in Wales. In Scotland, the whole figure is

probably much larger. In Scotland, there is about ?1.7 billion of local

-- public sector money invested in fossil fuel companies. We could

divest that and we invested in Wales. In infrastructure, transport

systems, homes and energy infrastructure. There is a lot of

money which we could beat you think to build a fairer and more

sustainable future. -- which we could be using to build?

Leanne said she wanted to build a commission, I want to build

transport networks. If you look at the M4, the blue route is ?600

million, not 400, it goes past hundreds of houses and will affect

many people, it is not the easy option, it has four lanes, not six

lanes. If we look in the north, we need a new crossing over the Menai,

we have hired investment in tunnels. The Newtown bypass has been built.

There have been bypass is in other areas. We need to make sure we deal

with this. Also trains, we need to see a timetable for the

electrification of the mainline to Swansea. We need to see the

electrification of the North Wales mainline. And the Metro proposals in

the south-east of Wales, Swansea, all stampers spoke transport for

oral areas. -- and of course bespoke transport for rural areas.

If we are to have a transport infrastructure fit for the whole of

Wales, you do not blow the entire budget on one road in one section of

Wales. We have to look at a fair

distribution of resources. We need to look up public transport

solutions, both in the south-east, and also the feasibility of opening

up old railway lines such as the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line. We

need to take control of bus services, re-regulate, using our new

powers to re-regulate bus services so people in rural areas are not

left stranded in their communities. There is a new type of

infrastructure which we need to deliver on, digital infrastructure.

People can't work at home, develop dismisses in other parts of Wales,

they are dragged into the big cities because they do not have decent

broadband and mobile phones. We need to look at infrastructure in the

round, not be obsessed with one road in one part of Wales.

Government has to get onto the job. After 70 years of Labour in control,

they have squandered huge opportunities of convergence money.

Towards the last assembly macro, the tobacco which sold off public land,

which lost capital for the future Welsh Government, that is

scandalous, we cannot afford another five years of that. We had to get

the Digital economy right, large areas cannot compete in the 20th

century economy, let alone the 21st. We have the electrification coming

to South Wales, it is vital it is completed. The A55 improvements, the

electrification of the valleys, making sure the electrification of

North Wales happens in the next funding round. It is important to

have a Government in Cardiff date working with Westminster to deliver

these. Another excuses, action is required -- a Government in Cardiff

Bay. Infrastructure, think about

transport infrastructure, broadband and things like that? The gentleman

in the white shirt at the back, then the gentleman at the front. I am

looking for... Too many guys wanted to speak, I want some ladies as

well. At the back, first, the white shirt? On public transport, in

England there is a green bus fund for bus operators to use for

alternative methods of fuel. When can... Like you have just said,

action is required, when will the Westminster Government decide to

invest in Wales so bus operators can run more green and efficient and

less carbon monoxide buses to help people in Wales have better public

transport? Live village along the back row to the lady in the middle?

-- moving along. What will you do to make it easier for people with

mental disabilities to travel on a bus? It can be so stressful stepping

out of your front door, let alone getting on a bus or any form of

public transport. Who was the other person I picked? Thank you? You have

to play toll tax at the Severn Bridge, when would you cancel but,

please? That is a very practical point. Car win, what are the

prospects of the Severn Bridge toll disappearing? We have asked to

control it, if we did, we would at least reduce it and then abolish it,

it is controlled by the Department for Transport. The tolls would be

set by the Department for Transport, the money is being spent on roads in

England. We should have a fair share of that, our people use the bridge.

The question about access to public transport is important. Kirsty is

right, we will soon have powers to regulate buses, meaning it is easier

to make sure that buses are more frequent, they link up with trains,

not arriving five minutes afterwards, to make the experience

of travel far less stressful. On a personal level, waiting for

connections at Swansea station is not my favourite vividly! I hope the

point has been noted. Thank you, Carwyn, and everybody.

I should underline that these are not the only parties standing in

this election. What we will do now for a couple of minutes, so that we

represent all voices, we will hear some contributions from the other

parties standing and getting their messages. Here they are.

We believe that the Assembly Government, after years

of continuous failure, should be abolished.

At a cost of ?1.5 million a day to keep 60 AMs,

the Senedd is too expensive, and it is time that we close down

the Senedd and the 72 satellite offices that we run.

The steel crisis underlies the need for us to have a Welsh Government

and Parliament with the powers and resources necessary in order

to take vital industries and services into public ownership,

defying EU rules if necessary and investing in them to produce

what we need - more railway links, more homes, high speed broadband

to every school and local community, and to harness the enormous

potential of our solar and tidal

We're standing across Wales to represent the Loonies in

We believe that it is important to reduce costs.

To do so we are going to reduce the number of seats in the assembly

from 60 to five - we'll rename it the Welsh Ensemble.

We are not your average political Loonies -

We do not think that they - mentality, we use our own minds. We

guarantee that should we win, we will not implement any of our

manifesto policies. LAUGHTER

Follow that! That winds had to prize of the century award. I am very

disappointed that none of my colleagues here... In the fashion

stakes, you cannot compete. Those are the other parties standing in

the election. We thought we would put that in at this point to reflect

other views, not just the six parties with us now. We have about

half an hour left, we will move on to education. I have lost count of

the number of interviews I have done education standards, challenges for

educations, not just in schools but in universities. It has been such a

hot topic. Where is Daxa Patel? You have not put your hand up much, I am

glad you are asking a question. We will have a question, followed by

comments. How will you support teachers

and schools to deliver a first class Thank you so much. We will

concentrate on schools and then move on to higher education at about. I

started with Leanne last time, Nathan? One size does not fit all, I

have five children, I am fully aware. We need an education system

is spoke to children and their individual needs. We needed to be

aspirational for the child. We want children to be able to, when they

get into class, he engaged because they are enjoying what they are

learning and they feel it has a relevance to their future and their

future careers. Not everybody is cut out to go to university. We need

people to work in industry, manufacturing, hands-on skills. We

propose bringing back from the schools to Wales, but not, as these

people here will try to have you believe, 11 plus, you are

categorised, but throughout the secondary education period they can

continue to be tested and decide whether or not they want to be more

vocational or more academic. Thank you very much. We will come to

Alice next. Looking through some of the policy areas, one of the

eye-catching policies I noticed, Alice, was the possibility of

raising the school starting age, maybe you can address some of that?

We believe that education should not be just about finding a career, it

should not just be about getting on a treadmill that ends up in a job,

it should be about inspiring children, it should be about making

it fun to learn things, to gain knowledge. To really inspire them,

to want to learn more further in life. So it was just a recognition

that there is lots of research that recognises that education focused on

play early in life is very good at bringing a wealth of knowledge into

children very early on. I think in terms of addressing the question

that was put forward, how do we support teachers and schools to

deliver a first class education system in Wales, I think the first

thing we need to do is really focus on the children and those teachers.

To be able to deliver a good education system for those children,

we do need to support those teachers. We also need to make sure

that are still schools in our communities for children to attend.

There are plenty of schools around Wales that are closing. Those

schools are actually at the heart of the communities. When the school

closes, the community for support. Regardless of debates about numbers,

what is a you think they should be kept as they are? We need to protect

rural schools, there are important to the communities. For example,

bringing it into supporting teachers, when teachers went on

strike last week in Wales, they were not going on strike because they

wanted higher pay or different pensions, they were going on strike

because they didn't feel they could deliver for the children. They felt

that one of the new pressures that was being put on children in rural

areas are additionally long bus journeys to school in the morning

because of rural school closures. What we would do in the Wales Green

Party is keep the rural schools open, make sure we reduce teacher

workload, make sure we provide effective training for teachers

throughout their careers and reduce class sizes, these are things that

teachers need to provide good education for children in Wales.

Thank you. You made quite a few points. Carwyn, I will ask you to

respond directly. I picked up a quote from the Chief Inspector of

education in Wales, once again, there is a marked contrast between

the quality of teaching and learning, particularly in the best

education providers and the weakest. This is not due primarily to

socioeconomic factors, some of the best providers are in relatively

deprived areas. The application being that this is about standards

and monitoring standards, regardless of socioeconomic factors? It is

about leadership. If there is weak leadership of the top of the school,

the school does not function. Once we have a teacher pay and conditions

devolved, we need to start working on a package for teachers. The Scots

do this, we need to make sure we do this in England and Wales. I am the

son of two teachers, I know what it involves. They talk to me about

teaching and teaching as a profession. If we do that, we can

put a package together. Also, make sure teachers are teaching in

buildings fit for purpose. One of the measures of an education system,

for me, is making sure in the richest and poorest areas, there is

no difference. If you look up a scheme that we put in place, we

provided money and support for the worst performing schools to bring

them where they should be, and we have seen startling results across

the whole of Wales, that is hugely important. It is also important that

were children get the opportunity for a good education, they can also

carry on in further education college and university. We will not

scrap the allowances the Tories want to scrap. I have spoken to students

and they are petrified that funding might be cut. Keeping on schools for

the moment, Kirsty? Leadership is absolutely crucial, that is why it

is scandalous that Labour's own education minister admitted that the

Government took their eye off the ball when it came to education. We

have listened to parent concerns, which is why we will cut class

sizes, so teachers have the time to teach every child to the best of

their ability. Over the last five years, my party has prioritised in

every negotiation education spending. That is why we were able

to invest in an additional ?280 million into the education of our

poorest children, through the Pupil Premium. We need to do that because

every child deserves a fair start in life. If we are to make our economy

successful, we need to have well-qualified children leaving our

schools. If a teacher has 30, 31, 32, 33 children in their class, it

is nine on possible for that teacher, despite their best efforts,

to give the children the individual attention they need. That is why we

will cut class sizes. The target class sizes what? Down to 25,

starting with infants. Andrew? The First Minister talked about

leadership, it is the lack of political leadership that has put us

where we are with education over the last 17 years. It was Kirsty's

education minister who apologised, the First Minister said they had

taken their eye off the ball on education. Sorry, kids, you're going

to get left behind. That's not good enough. What we are going to do with

education is funded schools directly, so the opportunity is

there to spend as much of that money as possible in the classroom, make

sure schools stay open, as long as they can teach the national

curriculum, offer them the opportunity to run their own

affairs. If the local school shots, part of the community dies. Making

sure that there is parity, to support students with vocational and

academic coursework. We need people with vocational qualifications, as

well as academic, if we are going to have an economy fit for the 21st

century that does not leave any students behind. Thank you very

much. In international comparisons, Welsh schoolchildren perform worse

than children in countries like Estonia, Vietnam, Ireland. I think

that is a scandal, considering how well we used to perform in the past.

For me, staff are key to all of this, we rely on the teachers to

create the next generation of doctors, engineers, scientists. We

must invest in them and encourage them and enable them to be

excellent. So, Plaid Cymru will create a cradle to career education

service and we have identified a number of policies to do that. One,

investment in early years education, two, we want to create a world-class

teaching profession and reward them accordingly. Thirdly, we want to

guarantee a job or training place for everyone that is under 25 and

has been out of work for more than four months, create more

apprenticeship places and a debt write-off scheme for graduates.

Thank you very much. Any teachers? I have heard from you once, OK, I will

come to this lady first. OK. Pupils are funded through a pupil

deprivation grant. And it is right that they should be. You know, the

pupils that are getting free school meals should be funded. But the

grant doesn't take any account at all of the working poor. What are

the panel thinking about the funding? What would your response

be? What would you look to see change? I think there a great

variation across the counties in Wales, which is just patented and

fair. There is a lack of consistency? -- patiently unfair.

Any other teachers? In the middle? I would like to address the Ukip

gentleman and say that it would be wonderful to put to bed at the idea

of grammar schools. It is absolutely ridiculous. The children are judged

at the age of 11. I said they would not be. They are judged at 11, it

means boys and girls are judged equally. If you know anything about

child development, you know at the age of 11 boys are behind girls.

Therefore, all of the figures have to be massaged to create the results

of a 50-50 split. I'm sorry, it is simple maths and knowledge of

children. Which is why we would have an 11 plus, entrance exams at 11,

12, 13, 15 and 16. There are always examinations. Children are always

being tested in exams, always. Why put them in two different schools?

We want to have schools that have excellence. It is long before my

time, I am glad of that. Pushing us all into the one size fits all, if

it worked, why are we behind Estonia? It doesn't work. You have

been doing it for 17 years and it hasn't worked. In England, where

they still have grammar schools, they are the ones where all of the

parents want them to go to. People are voting with their feet. Is there

a case for saying, you know, we have crossed a bridge where all schools

become academies. I think it was a Labour idea originally. Do you think

it is a model that would apply for Wales? It's a model that is suitable

for England, but our model is allowing the opportunity for schools

to be funded from the Welsh government. In England, the average

is about 90%, it would free up about ?350 million in the education

system. The criteria would be that the school would have to teach the

national curriculum. If it could meet that requirement, it could go

to the Welsh government, apply via a business plan? That is community

participation. I am interested in why you think it

would not be suitable. What do you think is not suitable? You bring

solutions to the table that are right for Wales?

Offering the money directly to schools, so you are not forcing it

down that route. One in ten kids leave primary school unable to read,

are you really going to give Labour another five years? Direct funding

of schools is the beginning of the Academy process. It has led to a

boom business ministers that handled the budgets, and it has led to lots

more civil servants in the Department for Education. The reason

why parents in England want to stop the process is that it is a direct

threat to rural schools. We want a presumption against closure. If you

direct funding, you make it difficult to keep it open, the local

authorities can't afford transport and it can't afford provision for

special educational needs. The point I made, 90% of the education budget

is delegated straight to the school in England, in Wales, 81%. 9% loss

to administration. That is money straight in the classroom if you

find them directly. You can't deny that. Carwyn? And you and his party

have said for five years that education spending is 90%. It's all

very well giving it to schools. You have lost canteen contract as well.

Why are you going to get rid of the educational maintenance allowance

that helped so many people from younger backgrounds -- poorer

backgrounds to go to college? We are going to put it into transport, so

post-16 transport is continued, at the moment there was no support for

post-16 education transport. It would be kept in the education

budget. Where is Carys Fry? You are in the important position of asking

the last question. What changes would you make to the support

available for students to study at university? You are a student I'm

aware? Studying? I am at Coventry, and I'm about to go into my final

year. What would you say about levels of support and what could be

changed? I'm very lucky that I have a lot of support with tuition and

living costs, but there needs to be more focus on living costs and

support for that. The means tested loans and grants do not cover even

the accommodation for some people. I think there needs to be more focus

on that. I think we are starting with Alice? Actually, what we

propose in Wales, I am going to look at tuition fees, briefly, we offer a

free education for Welsh students that want to study in Wales. We do

believe that education should be free, for everyone, for life. Anyone

that wants to learn should have the ability. At the moment, we don't

have the ability to fund students that want to study in England. We

are making it available for students that want to study in Wales, and,

potentially, students who have courses that are not available in

Wales currently. I completely agree, it is not just about tuition fees,

it is about funding living costs as well. I think we need to look at

what the living costs are, where people are going to study, and

taking it from that perspective in terms of what needs are, see that we

are meeting those needs. Clearly we are not.

You will never pay ?9,000 a year in fees. We will always make sure we

look after our students, as we have done for the last five years,...

Years. The Lib Dems broke a promise saying they would never charge

students for their fees. That will always be a case for us as a party.

Another thing we will never do, which is something Leanne wants to

do, you must do the study and Wales all come back within five years and

we will find you. We believe our young people deserve opportunities

wherever they go, wherever they work and wherever they settle. You will

know this better than anyone else, Carwyn Jones..., there are strong

views in Wales, particularly the universities, who say your policy is

not sustainable, it is taking money away from some of these

institutions, they think it is unfair and that you are sticking

with them for reasons that they don't understand. If they say the

money is going into England, let them compete with England by saying

we have a better offer in terms of education. Is that a level playing

field? What is available playing field? We want our students to get

experience at the Wales. We would like them to come home. Some of them

will come home with ten or 15 years behind them. We will not say to

them, sorry, only study in Wales, even if your course is not

available, or if you do not come back within five years, we will

charge you. The First Minister is consistently misrepresented the

Plaid Cymru position on this. He keeps saying that we want to force

people to study in Wales, that is a lie. You know our position is not

back. Explain it to me. Leanne now. The existing funding system for

student support is not sustainable over the long-term. I listened very

carefully to what the First Minister said, he said students will not pay

?9,000 in tuition fees under Labour. He did not give a figure of how they

would pay, they are being very careful not to state a figure. Who

invented tuition fees? It was Labour. The Plaid Cymru policy is

that we will pay off ?6,000 out of the ?9,000 for every year a student

comes back to work in Wales and plays into the Welsh tax pocket. The

moment, we are investing in students' education and they are

leaving, we are inadvertently funding universities in other

countries when Welsh universities need that money. There are plenty of

students coming from England to provide funds for universities in

Wales. Effectively you will charge people if they do not come back to

Wales, I do not think that is the right approach. And where are the

jobs for them to come back to? You are happy to continue with a

situation where Welsh taxpayers' money is being spent and English

universities and Welsh qualified students are leaving and have no way

of coming back to contribute to the economy here? We need the best

brains in the country to help us build this country up. You are not

doing nothing to try to keep them here. It is a big, wide world. I

want the Welsh students to have the best experience. Of course I want

them to come back, but I will not say, we will not pay for you unless

you come back. It is parochial. OS X Plaid Cymru was in government and

they had the economic portfolio, they did not do a good job of

providing quality jobs for Welsh people to come back too. Look at the

statistics, you had four years of the economic portfolio between

2007... It is the economic policies in Westminster run by your party. I

never went to university, I did not have a free education, I went to

work on the streets in Cardiff selling produce off the farm. We had

to help with living costs to make sure that students can get into

university. They are paid upfront. My party has put policies into place

which will put ?400 million into living costs, that will be paid from

day one adventure university. But there is also part-time learning,

that is not supported at the moment. We would support part-time learning,

FC colleges have been robbed to support HD education. That is not

good enough. -- FE colleges have been robbed. The reallocation of

resources is extremely important. Kirsty? No political party has a

great record in tuition fees. They were introduced by Labour, raised

one Plaid Cymru was in power, my party met toe paid the biggest price

for not being able to keep its promise in London. It is crucial

that we have learned our lesson, and we are clear that we have an

affordable policy in this election. We will give all students a ?2500

living grant to help with the costs of living. We will ring fence the

rest of the higher education budget to give money to institutions in

Wales. We need great Welsh universities. They are being starved

of resources that the moment. What Labour has done is set pay

commission that will conveniently after the election, -- a commission

that will conveniently report after the election, the First Minister

says he will respond. It is the oldest trick in the book. Learn the

lessons of my party, be upfront and straight, be sure you can deliver

what you are promising. I have learned that the hard way, that is

why we will support students upfront with ?2500, but we recognise that we

need to invest in institutions, because if we do not, we will be

doing our higher education sector a disservice. Nathan?

Kirsty, I don't think you have learned from offering things that

you cannot do, you say you will reduce class sizes to 25. We don't

know one week from the next how many people are coming here to live, how

can you plan to have the 25 people in a class? It is ridiculous. Love

is tuition fees? We will provide free Stem subjects, science,

technology, engineering, mathematics and medicine. We can pay for that by

replacing the grant with a load for those Welsh students who go and

learn in England, steady in England. Are you allowing foreign students to

come to Wales? Absolutely, I have some friends in Bangor University

who are Chinese and from all over the world, please don't try to take

this as being racist. Students watching, what happens to tuition

fees under the UK policy? If you study a stem subject you will pay no

Jewish and fees. If you are studying innings... In England, you will have

to repay that through a loan system, but we will pay a ?500 bursary for

poorer students who want to study anywhere in the world. There is a

young lady in the far corner? There is a lot of mention of cutting

tuition fees and taking a budget of the Jewish and fees that the student

needs to pay back. This is mostly for and if -- undergraduate degrees,

I presume? Will you be offering any support for students who wish to

study postgraduate courses almost as deg? The postgraduate question. In

the front? -- postgraduate courses or Masters degrees? My question is

to do with school education. The LGBTQ community is very

discriminated against, should more be done in schools to educate

against that? Carwyn Jones always mentions Welsh students with his

tuition fees, he never mentions the other 31 nationalities are people

who can come to Wales and get exactly the same grant and be

subsidised by the Welsh Government. If you come from any country in the

common market, I am sorry to mention the common market, the European

Common market, 31 countries, any of their students can come to this

country and have exactly the same grant that Welsh students get,

including Turkey, Norway and Switzerland. Never mentioned. Costs

the Welsh economy many millions. The lady in the pink?

As a parent of a child on the autistic spectrum, I know that costs

fall children as they go into further education increase because

of the support they need. What extra funding will you give to children

with additional learning needs? Thank you for making the point. We

will not be able to have an answer, but thank you. The gentleman in the

glasses? The debate feels like it is from a different generation, we're

talking about the past, past infrastructure, passed immigration,

ignorant comments about Estonia. We should be setting a vision for the

future, not reliving the same debate is over and over. Thank you so much

for making a future point. Thank you for reminding us we are looking

ahead. Thanks to our politicians

and thanks to the audience The debate continues with my

colleague Bethan Rhys Roberts with a special programme

on BBC Two Wales now, and with my colleague Felicity Evans

with a special phone-in And, of course, you can continue

to have your say on social media - A full list of candidates

standing in the election From Cardiff, thank

you for watching, enjoy the rest of the campaign -

diolch am wylio.