Live with Huw Edwards BBC Wales Leaders' Debate

Nine days to polling day in the election that was never meant

to happen, and it's our last opportunity in Wales to bring

leading politicians together and put them on the spot.

Welcome to Cardiff for the BBC Wales Election Leaders' Debate 2017.

Good evening, noswaith dda, a warm welcome to the SSE Swalec

Stadium in the heart of the Welsh capital for a special

live election debate, and welcome to people across the UK

This is where we'll be spending the next 90 minutes,

testing the pledges and ambitions of five political parties in Wales.

As voters prepare to visit the polling stations

on Thursday of next week, we'll be exploring some

of the biggest issues featuring in this campaign,

from the challenges of the Brexit process ahead to the questions

raised by the terrible events in Manchester last week.

We asked the five main parties in Wales to nominate a leading

representative to take part in tonight's debate.

Joining us tonight here in Cardiff for Labour we have

For Plaid Cymru we have their leader Leanne Wood.

For the Conservatives we have the Welsh Assembly

member Darren Millar, and we're grateful to him

for appearing as the leader of the Welsh Conservatives,

Andrew RT Davies, and the Secretary of State, Alun Cairns,

For the Welsh Liberal Democrats we have their leader Mark Williams.

And for UKIP we have their leader in the National

We have a specially-selected studio audience reflecting different

opinions and drawn from different parts of Wales.

They will be providing the questions.

Each of the politicians here will have time to answer before

we turn back to the audience for further questions.

And those of you watching at home or online can get

Visit our live page on the BBC Wales website and get

involved on social media - the hashtag is #BBCWalesDebate.

We're going to start with a brief opening statement from each

It's their chance to set out the broad message of their campaign,

Each panellist will have up to a minute each.

The next five years will be the most challenging that Wales and the UK

has faced in a generation. Our Brexit deal will define the

future of our nation, our place in the world and our economic security.

Just 11 days after you go to the ballot box, the European Union will

start its to go see Asians with the UK. The leaders of 27 different

nations will be on one side of the table and our next Prime Minister on

the other. You will hear a lot tonight from Labour, Plaid Cymru and

the Lib Dems about standing up for Wales, but these are empty words

from the same parties who have been responsible for running Wales into

the ground in the past 18 years, giving us the worst school system in

the UK and record-breaking cuts to our NHS in Wales. We can ill afford

to have them taking our seats at the negotiating table. We need a Prime

Minister up to the job and ready to deliver for the people of Wales. It

boils down to a straight choice between Theresa May and Jeremy

Corbyn and I urge you to vote for Theresa May and the Welsh

Darren Millar opening, we now move to Leanne Wood. We are living

through an certain times and many people are concerned whether it be

about pensions, health, jobs or security. People are looking for

leadership. They want to understand the plans of all of our parties, yet

the Tories fail to send their leaders to debate and to be

scrutinised. Why? It is not easy for them to defend their toxic policies.

With Labour divided it is up to Plaid Cymru to chart a course

through this uncertainty. With our positive plans to protect jobs, to

strengthen the Welsh economy, to improve the nation's health and

education, we are able to offer hope and optimism instead of despair and

division. If you want Wales to matter, if you want us to defend

what we have and develop so that we can make this country even better,

give us the mandate, boat Plaid Cymru. Thank you very much.

Leanne Wood with the opening statement for Plaid Cymru. We are

moving to Mark Williams for the Lib Dems. Ladies and gentlemen, your

motivation for voting next week may be on different issues. Many will

vote on Brexit, many on the plethora of issues that affect us in our

everyday lives. I just want to talk a little about values. It was

graphically brought home to us last week when a young man walked into a

pop concert and deliberately slaughtered children, our children.

Families are grieving, our country is grieving, we are still in a state

of shock, but we are angry. It is times like this that our action

defines us, defines who ER -- who we are as a country, defines our

values. Do we point the finger, community and its community, or do

we point to liberal values, open, not close, tolerant, not prejudiced,

United not divided, that is the Britain I and my party believing and

that is the Wales I believe in as well and it is the values I believe

all of us in this country holds dear.

Mark Williams for the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Next we have Carwyn Jones

for Labour. Good evening. I got into politics through my anger at what

the Tories did for this country a generation ago. We thought we were

done with that kind of politics, done with the neglect of our

services, done with the gutting of whole industries like coal and steel

without hope. The Tories want to forget about that and brush it under

the carpet. They are doing it because they have not changed. They

don't want to think about working families rely on food banks, that is

not strong and stable, that is shameful. They do not want to think

about shutting the door on the poor and the vulnerable. It is cruel and

weak and we cannot afford five more years of this indifference and

cruelty. Welsh Labour is delivering the best ever GCSE results, a living

wage in the NHS and record employment just to name three, but

all of this is at risk if we allow the Tories to trample over this

again. We will fight the Tory cuts and Welsh Labour will stand up for

all of us. Carwyn Jones for Labour. Our last

opening statement is from Neil Hamilton from Ukip. This election is

about national independence and Parliamentary democracy being

recovered. Theresa May called this election for a mandate to deliver

results for Brexit that she did not want. The Tory party did not want a

referendum in the first place. If it had not been for Ukip breathing down

their necks in the last Parliament, we would not have had a mandate to

leave the EU. We need to keep the government on the straight and

narrow. There is no doubt Theresa May will be Prime Minister on the

8th of May, but we have seen that her mind is changeable. She changes

her mind on all sorts of things as she is buffeted around by the winds

of fate. Ukip is unambiguously in favour of Brexit and that is what we

want to see delivered. Neil Hamilton completing our opening statements.

Can I explain how we are going to manage this. There are five main

questions and we have allocated around 15 minutes for each of them.

What I will do once the question has been asked, is to ask each of my

colleagues to answer briefly before we then open up for debate. I will

do it simply in terms of Leanne Wood started on the first question and

then Darren and Mark, etc. They will all have an opening statement, a

brief opening thought on the question, before we open up.

On to our first question of the evening and it

In the wake of the terrible events in Manchester last week,

what will the parties do to help keep people safe, while also

protecting civil liberties and avoiding discrimination?

Thank you very much. Before I turned to Leanne Wood, to underline, in the

wake of the terrible events in Manchester last week, what will the

parties do to help keep people safe while also protecting civil

liberties and avoiding discrimination? Do you have a

thought on this? What is your ideal response to this? Just to bring

communities together in terms of when these things take place and

that is the key. All the hate taking place right now and with the media

particularly and the rise of the far right. I think the best way to keep

people safe is to make sure we invest in those services, like

intelligence services and police services, health and emergency

services, to ensure that if an incident like this does happen that

we can do all we can to minimise the impact. But I share your concerns

about divided communities and I think one of the things that the

terrorists want is for us to fear each other, to turn against each

other and fall out as neighbours in our communities and we must do all

we can to make sure they do not win and they do not divide us. I am keen

and I would be grateful if all the politicians here on this platform

would join me in making a strong statement of solidarity that we are

all in this together, we all have to work together to defeat both the

forces of the far right in terms of Islamic extremism and also in terms

of the far right, in terms of white supremacy as well. Darren? My heart

went out to the victims of the dreadful Manchester attack just a

couple of weeks back. I was brought up as a child in Manchester and I

remember very much the bombing campaigns of the IRA at that time.

What we have got to do is make sure we have sufficient investment in our

security services and I have been pleased the UK Government have made

available almost ?3.5 billion extra for additional 1900 more officers

for MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. That is a record in terms of our investment in

counterterrorism and cyber crime that will pay dividends in the

future. 3500 people under surveillance by MI5 who have had

marked success in foiling several terrorist attacks since the London

attack, and of course there is adequate resourcing. The knee jerk

reaction is to say we need more police officers and, yes, we do, but

we need more investment in our intelligence services whatever the

record the Conservatives assert. The keyword at community level has to be

integration. This is why my party has had some concerns over the

Prevent strategy which is directed from above them into communities

rather than actively involving people on the ground in that

integrated approach. I was Government whip for Northern

Ireland a generation ago, I know what it's like to live with being a

terrorist target, different kind of terrorism from the one that we face

today. A very small number of people can cause an enormous amount of

damage. As Mark has just said, the 3,500 people who are known to MI5 as

terrorists or very strongly suspected to be terrorists, you

can't have a surveillance over such a number of people. Therefore we

have to invest even more than we do in the police and the Security

Services. Ukip's policy to increase the police by 20,000. We also need

to have a much tougher policy on migration and also the deportation

of those who are involved in terrorist activity, for those who

are foreigners, we will be able to do this once we're out of the

European Union. Even for those who have dual nationality, we should

strip them of British narlt and deport them as well. For foreigners

and for British citizens, then obviously we need to consider very

carefully not just monitoring but actually taking them out of

circulation in certain circumstances.

We'll get some responses to that. We meet this evening in the shadow of

Manchester, don't we. Our thoughts have to be with the families,

emergency services and everybody affected by what happened there. As

First Minister, I've been receiving regular security briefings on a

daily basis. I know how hard our emergency services and our

intelligence services have been working. But let's be clear about

this, these are people with whom there can be no compromise, no

negotiation, no accommodation. They will not hesitate to kill people who

are not exactly like them, including other Muslims, who are the main

targets of their murderous intent. So it's hugely important we do two

things: Yes, we need to make sure there are more police on the

streets. We've pledged that as a party. But also good intelligence.

We all have a role to play. We all need to be vigilant. These people

will stop at nothing to destroy our democracy and we should never, ever

let them win. Thank you very much. Who'd like to come in on this? Just

give me a sense of how many people there are. Thank you very much. So,

lady here first of all. Then lady there. Then I'll come to the back.

Thank you very much. I'm a community activist. I think the problem with

what happened with the terrible attacks in Manchester is ignoring

the role of foreign policy. But also, the politics of fear that we

have been living in in Britain. We have to exchange the politics of

fear with the politics of hope and we have to work with communities

rather than stigmatising a minority for the sake of political gains. I

think that's the problem that's happening at the moment that we are

not addressing the issue holistically and we would rain

scapegoat minorities for these gains and these things are being changed.

You are making a direct link with foreign activity in the past and

what happened last week, is that a direct link? Well the individual was

motivated by the foreign policy of our country in Iraq and Syria. And

he committed this horrendous attack as a result. So can we not address

that? But also addressing the social injustices that certain communities

from from poverty, unemployment. Why this 22 years old man committed this

terrible attack? We need to find out the root causes of that without

stigmatising a minority, a manifestation of this stigmatisation

is Prevent strategy which created a hostile environment around me, as a

Muslim woman who chose to wear a face veil I could be referred

because this can be a sign of radicalisation, so there are flaws

with the Prevent strategy. Going back to my friend's questions, how

can we balance the national security without undermining our civil

liberties and treating everyone equally. Thank you very much. Making

your point very clearly. The lady here next. Thank you very much. Yes.

Whilst a grow we need more integration within our communities

rather than divide and conquer of media and social media that is

currently being played out, considering what happened on Monday,

is it not time we scrutinise people who are coming into our country,

whether they live here or they've come here for a holiday more

seriously and those who were on the terrorist watch list should there

now be interred or tagged as the IRA were in the 70s and 80s? That's a

very strong point again. Can you make a note of some of these and

we'll come back to them straight away. Gentleman in glasses there.

Yes, first I want to note that the terrorist from Manchester last, I

believe he was Libyan not Syrian or Iraqi. But also, Jeremy Corbyn as

well has been saying that foreign policy is to blame for Islamic

terrorism. But you see Islamic terrorism in countries like Sweden

as well. What's Sweden's foreign policy done to cause Islamic

terrorism? Nothing. Sweden's never been to war with any country in the

Middle East. They've never done anything to deserve that. I don't

think you can solve the problem unless you correctly identify what

that problem is. Thank you. Gentleman at the end here.

APPLAUSE Then this gentleman here. I don't

think there is any reason which you can give to blow up, blow yourself

up and kill children. There can be no reason at all...

APPLAUSE This is a democratic country. If you

don't agree with the thing, there are options for protest. You can go

on a civil march. You can do a lot of things, blowing yourself is not a

reason to do that. What's your response to the lady here who says

that you have to look at causes which might include the way foreign

policy has been enacted in the past? Which is fine, but the action from

that is not the right way to do that. You cannot blow yourself up

and kill innocent children and say that this is because of that. There

is no justification for that. Thank you. Can you just come back on that

for a second ah, I quick response to that. There's no justification of

course. It's just addressing the root causes holistically without

stigmatising any minority. There's no justification

Firstly, discrimination must be fought. There is no need for people

to be stigmatised. If people are discriminated against because of

what they believe in or what they look like, then the terrorists have

won. That's exactly what they want us to do. I don't agree with you

that this would not have happened if it wasn't, if British foreign policy

had been different. The gentleman made the point correctly about

Sweden. This is a war as they see it against all those who don't believe

as they believe. Turkey has been on the receiving end of these attacks

as well. We always have to look to see how we can cut off the source of

that radicalisation, whether through ideas, or cutting off the money

supply, or the supply of weapons, that much is true. With these

people, I have to say, they will not stop. They will carry on. The fact

that this young man came and murdered innocent people, there is

no excuse for that. I know of no religion that says that part of that

religion dictates that you must murder innocent, young people. Islam

doesn't say that. Christianity doesn't say that. But the last thing

we should do is allow division to enter our society. That would mean

this terrorist would get exactly what he wanted. Neil, several points

made, including taking a rather more radical approach to people who are

on watch lists and who are suspected maybe of engaging in some preparer

to activity. What's your thought? We do have to be rather more Draconian

in our response. There is an argument for internment - It was a

disaster. That created more problems than it solved. I think we have to

be rather more Draconian than we'veed been in the past. This is a

war within Islam, but also a war between that strand of Islam and the

rest of the world. This is fundamentally a religiously driven

conflict. These people are fanatics who are not going to be influenced

one way or another, though they may use it as an excuse to talk about

foreign policy mistakes. I was against the Iraq war and all the

interventions in other places like Libya in the Middle East. I do think

they have given a weapon to our enemies to use for propaganda

purposes. So you could argue then, in that case, that the way foreign

policy has been enacted - if you say it's given people some kind of

excuse, you're making the link. It doesn't give them an excuse, but it

gives them a propaganda weapon which they've effectively used. Gentleman

here has been waiting patiently. Yes, sir. So, firstly, I disagree

with the lady at the front and Carwyn Jones who says Islam doesn't

advocate the killing of non-believers when that's a verse

out of the Koran, what I'm going to say with that is religion has

secularised parts of the old testament has similar radical views.

The issue with this is it's political correctness from each and

every single one of you on the panel today. You fail to recognise the

problem, which is the faith of Islam and the way it is conTrude. Most of

the people who commit these attacks are radicalised not moderate

Muslims. This problem is a failure to address on each and every one of

your behalf's. People in this country have been silenced for fear

of being called racist and Islamophobic. People need to

intergrace. -- integrate. Each of you need to play your role. In

Cardiff where imfrom, ten people have been arrested in the last year

from terror-related incidents from a similar communities. A lot of the

Muslims go to the same schools and hang round in the same communities.

If we're creating this division from a young age, that doesn't set

Muslims and non-Muslims up well for the future. What will you do to

combat these issues? Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE We'll come back to you. Gentleman

here. Yes; Can I ask the panel, is anybody on the panel -- has anybody

read the Koran. You're saying the foreign policy and Jeremy Corbyn's

saying about foreign policy. Read some of the Koran and like that

gentleman - The point you're making is? That in the Koran, it actually

says that what has actually happened, basically saying go and

kill any non-believers. It actually says that in here. Why are you

looking anywhere else. Thank you very much. In the back. We bombed

Iraq but we refused to bomb Syria. So the thing about foreign currency,

foreign policy is quite wrong W these gentlemen have said is wrong.

The Koran teaches jihad and we allow it to be taught in British schools.

When are you going to stop that? They believe what they read and it

tells them to go on jihad. What's your response? . I used to be a

teacher and I used to teach RE in a school and we teach all faiths. It's

very important we teach children about all faiths. Let's not lose

sight of the fact... APPLAUSE

I understand the emotions about this, but let's remember we are

talking about a tiny, tiny minority, totally deplorable individuals. This

is not an indictment on Islam. It is not an indictment on the majority of

Muslim communities across Wales and the United Kingdom. This is a tiny,

tiny number of people and we need to keep that in perspective. The

problem is that the havoc they can cause and that is why I I go back to

what I said at the start, that word I used, integration about working

within communities to identify these individuals and to deal with them

accordingly. Thank you very much. I think one of the things that we do

need to do is tackle the platform that these preachers of hate, who

are representative of a very small minority of Muslims, with very

warped views and interpretations of their holy Scriptures, we need to

take away their platforms. One of the platforms has been the internet,

social media, YouTube, it's been Facebook. We've got to get tougher

with these internet service providers and these platforms to

make sure that they take away those platforms and don't allow other

people to be indoctriniated by these warped views which cause people to

do such terrible acts like the one we saw in Manchester. Are you

acknowledging and saying that what we've mentioned it, the Prevent

strategy, there's been debate about the strategy, which is meant to take

steps to stop people being radicalised. Is that an admission to

say that strategy is flawed or not worth the time? There is a need of

the a refresh of the strategy. Let's face it, it has been successful at

foiling at least 18 terror attacks since 2013. I think that shows some

of the strength of the UK Government's approach in recent

years and you know, I'm sorry, I think it is disappointing sometimes

when we've seen politicians in the wake of the Manchester attack try to

make this a party political issue when we should be working together

in order to solve this as a nation. I'm going to take one comment from

the back. Can I make one point about party politics. There is a political

issue to be made here, that's about police cuts and police funding.

Police spending has been cut by 20% by the Home Office, including when

Theresa May ran it. That has meant 19,000 fewer police officers on our

streets in Wales since 2010. So there is a political element to this

question. You can't get away from that. May I also point out that

crime fell by a third while Theresa May was Home Secretary. That's not

the question in hand, though. It's not necessarily about how many

police officers we have. It's where we target those - It's a factor

though. The reality is, an extra 3. ?3.4 billion has been made available

to increase the number of officers in MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. You should

have kept them in the first place. We have to move on to the next

question. The gentleman there. Quick comment from you. Then the gentleman

in the back row in the blue shirt, quick comment from you. Very quick.

Thank you very much for bringing this issues in front of our leaders.

First of all, I like to tell that I'm a practising Muslim. I go to

mosque five times in a day. I really strongly opposing some comments

about holy Koran. I believe that I like to support our First Minister,

the way he said, in no holy Bible or holy Koran or any other religious

book you'll never find anywhere where it is written you go and kill

a person and you'll go to heaven. Nowhere, I never find in my life. So

the jihad, the explanation is actually it is not truly explained

in front of everyone. I have children growing up here, going to

school and mixing with - I mix with everyone as well. So my humble

request, last of all, that those who are murderer call them murderer.

Whatever religion, whatever race they have got, they're murderer. We

should be united together to overcome this situation. Thank you

very much. APPLAUSE

We have overrun on the first question, so I am moving on. The

second question is from Lucy Lloyd, a trainee tax advisor. As the UK

prepares to leave the European Union, how will you secure the best

deal for Wales? I will put you on the spot straightaway before I put

Darren on the spot. What are your thoughts on this challenge and what

do you expect? What would you like to hear from this panel? I would

like to hear how exactly they are going to get the best deal for

Wales. The question is UK wide and we are Great Britain, but what are

we going to do for Wales? There are so many aspects of Wales that rely

on EU funding. How will you get the funding from somewhere else or

secure it from elsewhere? The same form again. I want five relatively

precise contributions and then we will open it up to debate. Darren.

Unfortunately the EU funding we have received has not delivered the sea

change that we needed to see over the past 16 years. It is an abject

failure of the Welsh Government to actually deliver the sort of

improvements that was expected as a result of the money that we have

had, ?4 million. The way we get the best deal is having the best

negotiator at the table facing of the other 27 nations and I have to

say it is a straight choice, either Jeremy Corbyn as your Prime Minister

or Theresa May. I know who I will be backing to make sure we get the best

deal. When Theresa May is doing the negotiations, how high up the

priority list will Wales be? We are at the heart of the negotiation

strategy. There is a Welsh MP in the Brexit department as a minister

actively articulating the case for Wales, David Jones. It is really

important we get this right. This will set the scene for future

generations. I have no confidence whatsoever that having Jeremy Corbyn

doing those negotiations will deliver the right result for Wales.

I have much more confidence Theresa May will be the right person to do

that. You are right to highlight the enormity at stake, whether it is

those who have come from farming communities, or those from West

Wales in the valleys, those who represent higher educational

institutions with flows of money and academics. The truth, sadly, is we

cannot trust the Tories on this. We had the opportunity to ensure there

was a Welsh voice in the heart of politics in the House of commons. In

Article 50 we tried to ensure that the national Assembly would have a

real voice in the negotiations. The Tory party marched against them

through the lobbies and our opportunity was lost. Leanne's party

and by default my colleague Kirsty Williams presented a document which

laid before the UK Government the risks at stake. It is one thing the

Tory government telling us we were listened to you, we will sit on the

other side of the table and nod agreement every time and every now

and again. I simply do not trust them when the crunch comes to

deliver the funding we are entitled to under funding we have been used

to over the last few years. Just for the sake of clarity, because someone

will pick up on this, but you are here today representing a party that

once a second referendum. Ratification referendum, a

referendum on the terms like the intention to leave or remain,

something specific on the terms. Not a blank check that Theresa May once.

That is because you still have not accepted the result according to

opponent. I accepted the outcome of June the 23rd, it was a clear

question. I do not agree that people did not know what they were voting

for. Wales voted to leave, but it did not see the terms and the impact

on the farming community, small businesses and higher education and

Wales needs to see the terms. I suggest that as time moves on there

will be more of public hankering to look at the terms yourself and have

that vote, not just those of us who are lucky enough perhaps to be

re-elected. Neill. None of the money spent in Wales by the European

Commission is European money, it is all our money, British taxpayers'

money. For every ?1 spent in the United Kingdom by the European

Union, we paid ?2 into the pot, so there is a massive dividend coming

to us the moment we leave and it will be up to our government to

decide how that is spent. The figures are not enormous, unlike

what Mark said a moment ago, but they are significant. The structural

fund for the EU is about 300 million a year. Similarly, our is only 2% of

the UK economy. It is very important... How big is your budget?

260 million. I am keeping things in perspective. There will be plenty of

money in the coffers of the Treasury in Whitehall. West Wales is the

heart of the farming community. If you will do me the honour of

listening when I finish my point. I have said on behalf of Ukip in Wales

that every single penny the European Union currently spends in Wales and

our British taxpayers' money should come to Wales. It will be up to the

Welsh Government because agriculture is a devolved matter, to decide what

is the best agricultural policy for Wales? This should not be left to

somebody who cannot be named and you do not vote for. It will be his

responsibility and his government to answer to the Welsh people at the

end of the day if they do not deliver the best deal. When we look

at net beneficiaries or not, in 2014 when we had that official study by

the Welsh Government in Cardiff, in that year, Wales was benefiting to

the tune of ?250 million in terms of inflow and outflow. It is difficult

to square that with you saying there is nothing coming in. The funding

you mentioned earlier, basically all of that money coming from the EU is

taxpayers' money, it is not because there is more put back in. The

United Kingdom as a whole. This is an Welsh terms. Every single penny

the European Union currently spends in Wales should be given to Wales by

the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the UK Government, who will ultimately

be responsible for dividing the cake up. But I am making the point and to

underline it again, in 2014 Wales got more money back that it put in.

Wales got more money back and it put in. I do not want that situation to

change within the United Kingdom when it is our money, we decide how

to spend for ourselves rather than it being decided in Brussels. We

cannot guarantee that same redistribution of wealth will happen

through the Westminster government. The Tories will try to grab that

money for themselves and we will lose out and that is what we have to

guard against and that is what we have to get guarantees from the

Tories about, although their leader has gone on holiday. I will tell you

precisely what guarantees the UK Government has given, it has said it

will guarantee the current payments to farmers until at least 2022,

beyond the current CHP envelope which takes us to 2020. In addition

to that, we will establish a UK shared prosperity fund and I have

every expectation Wales will do better out of that fun than it

currently does. EU funding accounts for 80% of all farming, how we

guarantee a future for Welsh farmers unless you can guarantee that

funding? I have made it quite clear the UK Conservative manifesto is

very clear on this, it said it would guarantee the future funding in

terms of agricultural support right up until 2022. And beyond that?

There is no guarantee from the EU beyond 2020. The prosperity fund

gives us an opportunity to support West Wales and the valleys and other

places where there is deprivation like Wrexham and Newport. I will

give the courtesy of an answer and move beyond the squabbling. We

accept the result of the referendum, the decision has been taken, it is a

question of how it is done. We produced a white paper jointly with

Plaid Cymru putting a plan in place saying how this could be done. All

of the engines at Bridgend go to the EU and it is important we protect

that. We need to look at Freedom of movement and adapt it to meet

people's concerns. I have heard that on the doorstep, but there is no

plan from the Tories. All we hear from Theresa May is slogans, Brexit

means Brexit, and if we have somebody going into the negotiating

chamber saying that, we might as well have a parrot to be honest. We

need are worked out plan from the Tories about how they will deliver

this. We have done it. The Welsh people are told point-blank that

Wales will not lose out a single penny. That promise has been

ditched. From 2020 that money will disappear. I know, talking about

farming and hearing from Whitehall, they expect Australia and New

Zealand to produce lamb in the future, not Welsh farmers. Plaid

Cymru has got a positive post Brexit plan to protect the jobs we have

got, but to create the conditions to develop better jobs in the future as

well. We have to fight for our interests to keep our funding. We

are at risk of trade deals that would see our health service

privatised and our agriculture decimated by cheap imports. Wales

has not been on the agenda since the referendum and it is only by

electing a strong team of Plaid Cymru MPs that we will make sure

that Wales' voices are heard and they are met as well. Who will come

in on this? I am scanning the audience. Over here. Let me get a

spread. The gentleman over there. The gentleman at the back. Thank you

very much. I have heard you before. I will take this gentleman here and

then this gentleman here. Let's have some ladies putting their hands up

please. Thank you very much. Yes, in the corner. The discussion seems to

be coming down to who will be best placed to negotiate for Britain and

we have seen Theresa May already changed her mind about the general

election. We have seen her strong and stable manifesto policy around

dementia tax, as soon as it came under fire she backtracked on that.

I do not see for a minute how Theresa May is going to best

represent Wales in those talks. I would imagine the 27 other leaders

are saying, bring it on, if it is Theresa May. The gentleman at the

back. With regards to agricultural subsidies, Britain has had them

since 1948 and the Tories have a lot of rural constituencies so they

would be absolutely mad to not subsidise farmers because they would

lose a load of votes. Farmers should have no worries? I think so. But in

our future we need to look beyond Europe. Are we going to continue to

have negotiations with other countries that the EU has stopped

negotiating with like the United States, Japan, Australia and India?

Are your party is going to continue trying to get trade deals so we can

sell our products are abroad.? I agree with Mike and the Liberal

Democrats. I do not want to see Theresa May given a blank cheque on

the Brexit negotiations. I feel like because she prefers the no deal over

a bad deal, I do not want to see us fall off a cliff edge. I think she

knows that will work for London and the finance industries, but it will

not work for Wales. The gentleman here. Carwyn Jones, Leanne Wood, you

both have wiped out plans for negotiations with the European Union

and you are quite confident. How much of the European Union agreed to

your plans? Negotiations have not started. Exactly, so what is the

point of saying we have a plan and this is it. It is setting out

guidelines. The only guidelines are basically amount to not leaving the

European Union, let's take in the single market.

Europe is our biggest market. We the US is a smaller market and it's

further away. We do need to look at other markets. We need to look at

the US, India and China. We worked hard to make sure that Tata

succeeded in Wales, for example. There's nothing to stop us looking

at other markets, but we cannot turn our back on the market that's

closest to us, with 440 million consumers. And we don't need to. We

can still deliver Brexit and have access to that market and respect

the views that people expressed last year. We don't need a hard Brexit.

What we need is a sensible Brexit. Very quickly, Mark and then Neil.

Nobody's talking about turning our backs on Europe. We're not building

a wall and stopping people from going across the channel. Let's not

forget that our trade with the EU amounts to 7% of our national income

- It's 67% of our exports. Maybe so. What do you mean maybe so? We have a

trade deficit with the EU. 60 billion a year in their favour. With

Germany, we have a 20 billion a year deficit with Germany alone in cars.

There is every reason to think that the EU being rational will want a

Free Trade Agreement with us which is what the British government is

pushing for. There are 200,000 jobs in Wales currently reliant upon the

single market. We have to have a starting position. You have to have

a plan. Plaid Cymru has got a plan. What concerns me is that the Tories

have no plan to safeguard those jobs. They've not shared with us

what their starting position is. We don't know what their basic

principles are. We have no idea how they're going to protect the

agricultural industry or those 200,000 jobs reliant on the single

market. Theresa May has said she'd rather walk away without a plan than

to sign up to - without a deal than to sign up to a bad deal. That would

be absolutely disastrous. So you want a bad deal do you? For the

agricultural industry and many people in Wales who rely upon those

jobs. It's simply unacceptable for the Tories to be in this position

without one. Ukip don't have one either. It's not a war Neil. We need

to try and find the best deal for all sides. It's not us versus them.

That kind of talk going into the negotiations is already going to

start us off on the wrong foot. APPLAUSE

Can I just remind this audience and others what is at stake. Industry,

the lamb industry for instance, 93% of of the exports which go to the

European Union. Mrs May did have a bit a plan at the start. The bit of

the plan was that the divorce proceedings would run concurrently

with trade discussions. Thats not going to happen. We face the very

real prospect at the end of the divorce proceedings of falling off

the edge of a cliff with World Trade Organisation tariffs, which will be

the death knell of much of the rural economy. Remember, we're not just

talking about farming. We're talking about a broader rural economy, which

without those subsidies will be seriously jeopardised. The question

at the back mentioned about Tories representing rural constituencies.

Can I assure you that the rolling shires of East Anglia are very

different to the Uplands of Wales, where communities are at risk. Thank

you very much. I don't think the other panellists were listening

earlier when I made it clear what the plan was in terms of support for

our farmers, which would continue until 2022, not 2020 which is the

current arrangement under the EU. You've got no guarantees with

anything else. What I will say is this: If you want to talk about

farming, one party which is no friend of the farmer is the Labour

Party. Just last week in the Assembly chamber we had Lesley

Griffiths, the minister responsible for agriculture threatening our

farmers with literally thousands more regulations. You've had Ian

Lucas - Name three. Describing Brexit as an opportunity to slash

budgets. He asked you to name three. I'm simply quoting - Name three.

Just three. She also said - What about your leader, he's not here, is

he? I think farmers do a good job running their businesses,

contributing 5. 7 billion to the economy. Theresa May will never put

that at risk I know lots of you want to come in.

But we are really battling against the clock. I'm going to move on to

talk about the party's economic policies. This time I want to go to

Carol. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask you all with many people's

wages stagnant or the rate of inflation negating pay rises, what

are your parties' policies going to do to alleviate poverty in Welsh

communities? Don't we need an end to austerity and a completely different

plan? Do you mind, if I again, I'm going to do the same as before, ask

you what are you hoping to hear? What's going to sway you? I need to

hear something that's radically different because what's happening

at the moment just does not work. We've got families living in poverty

even though they're working two or three jobs. Define radically

different for me in any kind of area of policy, tax, spending - what kind

of radical change would you like to see? We need a different way of

funding our communities. We need a different way of funding health and

education. We need a chance for people who have very little income

to keep what they have. We need those who are fortunate enough to

earn plenty to be prepared to help until we can level things out. It is

redistributing in a much bigger way, in a much more radical way than

anybody's suggesting. Is any party getting close to what you want at

this point or not? Not at the moment, no. Interesting. First one

on this, Mark. Firstly, you say you're a teacher, I'm a former

teacher too. Still a member of my union. They do good work in

reminding the fact that the teaching profession, like the health

profession, like people working in local government, have had a freeze

on salaries, a 1% cap. That cap should be lifted. We need to be

using this opportunity to invest in our economy. It's a very big

question you pose, investment in big infrastructure proinjects that we

hear a great deal of, at the end there's very little delivery on the

ground. We think about the Swansea bay tidal lagoon project, the South

Wales Metro, North Wales, electrification, proinjects like

that. You specifically mentioned health. My party is unique amongst

the parties here today talking about tax to fund our National Health

Service. Particularly in those Cinderella services, mental health

and care for the elderly, I'm muddling my words. That needs

investment. That's why our party has said we need a penny on income tax.

Having taken, I should add, in the last coalition Government, one of

the rare aspects of coalition Government I fully endorse, taken

many, many low paid workers out of tax all together, some four million

tax taken out of work. We believe we should use the income tax system to

put that investment in the National Health Service. There are also, I

should say, a welter of benefits that the Conservative Party in the

last two years have slashed or proposed to freeze and we believe

those benefits should be upgraded and cuts to things like 19 to

21-year-olds accessing housing benefits, that's denied by the

Tories, we believe that should be re-instated. You believe in that

penny on income tax. Your corporation tax plans as well

involve an increase don't they? No, the corporation tax involve

reversing the Tory cap, raising ?24 billion over the five-year period to

fund the National Health Service. Because wherever you come from,

whether it's an urban or rural area, you should agree that mental health

services and care for the elderly are areas where we need more money

that would free up ?300 million for Carwyn Jones and my colleagues from

the Assembly to deliberate and I hope spend on the National Health

Service. Neil? Ukip believes in spending an extra 9 billion a year

on the Health Service. Another 2 billion on social care and the 9

billion on the Health Service would include an extra 500 million for

mental health as you rightly say the Cinderella of our medical services.

We don't need to put up taxes to get this money. We can divert resources

from other budgets. We would take it from the overseas aid budget, not

humanitarian and crisis aid, but long-term strategic goal aid, which

is often ineffective and can't be measured to see if it's working or

not. We would take a lot of low earners out of the income tax net by

pushing the threshold to 13,500 a year. The experience we've had in

our life times is that the opposite happens, what we want to create in

Britain and Wales in particular is an enterprise economy. The problem

with Wales is that our private sector is too small to generate the

wealth that we need to redistribute. We must do something to try and

change the whole game plan for that. I'm in favour and my party's in

favour ever devolving corporation tax powers to the Welsh Assembly,

for example. So we can create in Wales a kind of tax haven status

which the Irish Republic has successfully used in order to

attract new industries, financial services industry have made their

home in Dublin to the immince benefit of the -- immense benefit of

the Irish economy. Thank you very much. Tax havens have no Health

Service and poor spending on education, each and every one of

them around the world. You asked the point what can we do? My case in

point, there was a time when we used to say to people that the way out of

poverty was to get a job. That doesn't happen any more. We've got

nurses using food Banks. We saw the lowest paid have had tax credits

taken away from them. Those who the richest had a tax cut. Those who are

the poorest had a greater tax burden. We've got to change that.

First of all, you have to make sure you create jobs. We've had seven

years bumping along the floor. No-one can say Britain is flying at

the moment, it's not. We when have inequality in society it's not

something we can be proud of. People struggle still to make ends meet. We

supported our steel industry, Tata. We spoke to them and enabled them to

stay in Wales. UK Government didn't do a thing. We brought our national

airport and made it the fastest growing airport in Britain at the

same time, the Tories were happy to leave it closed and 1,000 jobs go

with. It that's what they wanted to do. We brought in Aston Martin, TVR

to name a view. We've got high employment, but there's more to do.

There's still too much inequality. We need a UK Government to deal with

the scandal of zero hours contracts. We need a Government to deal with

ensuring there are more prosecutions for breaches of the minimum wage,

because it's a UK Government that can do that. That's why we need a

Labour Government in Westminster and a Labour Government in Cardiff

working together to make our society more equal. Thank you very much.

Leanne? I believe in the principle of public services. I believe that

those people who are in the best position financially should pay the

most towards them. But austerity is not working. The UK has got a debt

of ?56 billion, sorry a deficit of ?56 billion and the debt is 1. 7

billion and rising. That's after almost a decade of austerity. That

shows to me the Tory austerity has failed and our public services and

our infrastructure are crying out for investment. We're losing

teachers. We can't get enough doctors into our Health Service. Our

communities are losing funding through benefits cuts, the cuts to

the communities first programme, objective one funding is going to be

lost. So I'm concerned that some of those people who are currently

living in poverty are going to be living in even worse poverty. What

do we need to do about it? Well, we need to introduce a real living

wage, not the joking wage. We need to make sure that pensioners are

adequately provided for and that their care costs are not

overburdensome. There needs to be an end to the benefit cuts programme

and we need to devolve some aspects of our Social Security so that we

can do things differently, so that we can treat people with dignity and

respect. We need to end austerity. We need to stop those at the bottom

of the pay scale have their frozen pay while those at the top,

including MPs and other politicians, who've taken pay rises. That is not

on, it has to stop. Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE I think we have to remember what we

inherited when a UK Prime Minister walked through the door at Number

Ten back in 2010. We had a nation whose public finances were in

tatters. Largest deficit since - in peacetime history. Our country was

on the brink of bankruptcy. Since then, we've managed to get the

deficit down by two thirds. There are 1. 2 million people here if

Wales have had a tax cut since 2010 because of a result of changes to

the personal allowance. 174,000 people have been taken out of tax

all together. We've had the national living wage, which has given people

an increase at the very lowest level in terms of the lowest paid in our

country. And we've got many more people, 122,000 more people back in

work in Wales that weren't in work previously - On low paid jobs and

zero hours contracts. What we've got to do is deliver on some of the

things which we've already set out and started the ball rolling on.

We've got to get on with delivering on the 1. 2 billion capital city

deal for Cardiff. We've got to get on in terms of delivering the

Swansea bay city deal, which has been worked up with the Welsh

Government as well. We're making significant investment in that too.

There's a clear commitment to scrap the Severn crossing tolls which will

add 100 million according to the Welsh Government's own estimates

into the Welsh economy. We've got to secure a growth deal as well for

North Wales and be active about getting local authorities and other

stake holders actually bringing one to the table. If we do that, we can

be very optimistic about the opportunities that Wales has going

forward in terms of creating new jobs and prosperity for all.

The tidal lagoon, was that part of the list? Our position on that has

not changed. We have always been supporters of delivering a Swansea

tidal lagoon in Swansea Bay. Of course at the moment the Hendry

review has reported and that review is being looked at by the UK

Department for Energy and Climate Change. Once that report is back to

ministers after the election, I am hopeful for a positive outcome. The

tidal lagoon not just in Swansea Bay, but also in North Wales, offer

massive opportunities. Very hopeful or very confident? I am very hopeful

there will be a positive outcome. We have to make sure it will be a good

deal for taxpayers and that is the right and sensible thing to do. You

are massive fans of it because presumably you think it will be a

good deal for taxpayers, is that right? I am very hopeful it will be.

The Hendry review sets a way forward and UK ministers are considering

that at the moment. It is not just about Swansea, we have got to look

at opportunities in the North Wales coast. The lady in the front. The

entire panel has failed to address the female half of the population

and one of our biggest barriers to re-entering employment is the cost

of childcare. The women's equality party have a radical policy on

childcare and I would like to know if any of the panel has engaged with

them to look at that. We saw Jeremy Corbyn today get into a little spot

of bother getting figures into the cost of Labour's policies. What is

your thought on that? One of our commitments was to introduce

childcare for 3-4 -year-olds and we think that is a good investment in

families and it would enable women to get back to work if there is a

barrier to them getting back to work. There are several pilots

already in Wales and that is an example of us working to make sure

that as many barriers as possible are removed to women going back to

employment, so women can go back to work and increase incomes in their

pockets. On a daily basis people struggle to see how that childcare

initiative will work in their lives. Leanne? The Labour position is

interesting on this. What about your position? I live in a local

authority that used to provide education for children from the age

of three years old and as part of austerity that has disappeared. We

are talking about reintroducing provision for 3-4 -year-olds and

Plaid Cymru wants to introduce provision for two-year-olds outside

the flying start area and that would involve investment over and above

what is currently invested in childcare at the moment to the tune

of an extra ?50 million. Are you satisfied with the answer? Is that a

yes? It is a very cautious yes. Yes, I am. Anyone in this corner? The

gentleman here. I graduated three years ago with a good degree from a

good university. I have got a relatively good job. It pays

relatively well, but even on that salary the idea I might be able to

save enough to buy my own home any time soon is a pipe dream. What

would the panel say to younger people like me who want to own their

own home but for whom it is impossible at the moment? Yes, sir.

The question I asked, which party is in the best position to address the

redistribution of wealth? Surely that is the Communist party. But in

this election the Communist party are standing down to enable comrades

Corbyn to be elected. Carwyn Jones did a very good job at distancing

himself from his leader, but at the end of the day of 04 car window is a

vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Do you think the question has been answered or

not? No. What policies would alleviate poverty? Generation after

generation a lot of people are making a good living out of poverty.

What do you mean by that? In terms of the Labour Party and various

parties it is in their interests to keep people at a certain level to

justify their position. That is quite a thought. We had this

conversation before many times. The Labour Party in 1945 at a time of

great austerity after award created the NHS to put people in jobs, gave

people the training they needed, created the boom of the 1950s. To

suggest the Labour Party revels in poverty I find offensive. We have

done everything we can to raise people out of poverty even as the

Conservative have put people back into poverty. The lady in the

centre. To the Tory member, you seem quite proud of the deficit coming

down. I personally believe austerity has a human cost. Were you affected

at all by austerity? I have seen it a lot.

APPLAUSE I have seen decisions of the Welsh

Labour government supported by Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems to cut NHS

spending in Wales. It is a fact. That is nonsense. We

spend more per head than any other country. We are clear that Wales had

the deepest record-breaking cuts of any UK nation as a result of

decisions... Ask them what they think. Carwyn Jones harps on about

the fact we spend more on health per head than we do in England. That is

right, but we ought to be spending more because our levels of

deprivation and need mean we need more spending. For every ?1 that

Wales gets under the Barnett Formula, for every pound that is

spent in England, Wales gets ?1.20, so why are we only spending 70%?

What we need is a very different approach. You can harp on all you

want, but at the end of the day these are crocodile tears. There are

people waiting in pain, languishing on waiting lists and Carwyn Jones is

refurbishing his offices at a cost of millions of pounds. Hang on a

second, the lady here. This is directed at you, Darren. Under the

Tory government that we have seen massive reduction in benefits for

disabled and vulnerable people. The UN censored the Westminster

government for this level of cuts. Going forward are you going to

promise that we are not going to see this continuous attack on disabled

and vulnerable people in terms of their benefits? The more you take

away from them, the harder it becomes for people to integrate in

society and the harder it is for them to get jobs. When you take away

a mobility vehicle it prevents that person from getting the job. I know

of people who have had a job, had the vehicle taken away, had to rely

on public transport, and because of the lack of public assistance they

have not been able to go to work and they have lost their job and are in

a worse situation. So the direct point is what? We want a promise

from the Westminster government that they will stop this attack on

disabled people and start enabling rather than actually removing

benefits. There has been no attack on disabled people. What we have

seen our record numbers of disabled people back in the workplace, having

the dignity of their own job and their own income. The Conservative

Party, it was a Conservative government under John Major that

introduced the disability discrimination act and we have got a

very proud record. Giving people the dignity of being able to enter the

workplace, and I have met many disabled people who have been in my

office and said what a rewarding experience it is to getting into a

workplace and earning your own living. That is what most disabled

people actually want. He has not got a clue. Why? He has not spoken to

people who have had their benefits cut. This is hypocrisy. Not only

have the cut benefits, they have also cut the block grants to the

national Assembly and cuts to this grant and cuts to benefits have a

knock-on impact elsewhere. Mental health services cost more to

provide, social services, housing services, they cost more to provide

when people are desperate. If you speak to people running food banks

they say people are using them because of change to benefits and

delays to benefits being paid. You need to get out and speak to more

people. And also that work capability assessment is completely

unfit for purpose. Far from raising self-esteem and dignity it destroys

people and that has to go as well. Neil. The talk of austerity is

misplaced because no government in peacetime history has borrowed more

money than the government of George Osborne and Philip Hammond. Nearly

?1 trillion has been borrowed since 2010. But they have got the wrong

spending priorities. We have legislated to increase the overseas

aid budget to 0.7% of GDP. That would be ?50 billion a year in two

years' time. A lot of that money is wasted and it should be redirected

into disabled people's benefits, the health service and so on and so

forth. Ill thought out schemes like the bedroom tax made life difficult

for people who are the most vulnerable in society. At the end of

the day, the only way we can alleviate poverty in this country or

any country is to have a growing economy which will generate the

wealth which we can then redistribute. It will not come from

tax increases or from the Treasury either, or you can borrow

indefinitely. It will come from the EU. That is our money. Labour's

programme has another 45 billion black holes they cannot explain for

this election now. You cannot go on for ever spending money you have not

got, somebody has to pay it back eventually. A gentleman in the back

row who has been waiting very patiently. I want to go to the

Conservative guy. How can you pick on all these pensioners and then

justify by filling MP's pockets by a 10% pay rise? Who would like to

tackle that? You are right about the issue of the MPs' pay rise and I

suspect like Assembly members there is a difficulty in not taking the

pay rise, but there was an issue where we as individuals could spend

the pay rise. You are right to highlight that issue, it is an issue

of great concern. You are right also to mention the issue of principles

and pensions. What we have not heard much about is the abandonment of the

triple lock on pensions which guarantees people's pensions at a

decent level. Not enough but better than before, to be replaced by a

double lock pension. What is the double lock pension? Will it mean

that pensions rise or are they more likely to fall? If I can make it

clear and respond to the point. We are supporting pensioners. What you

have seen since 2010 is pensioners get an increase in their income of

?1250 a year by the next financial tax year. That is in terms of their

basic state pension. That is a far cry from the 25p that was added by

Gordon Brown when he was Prime Minister. We guarantee the triple

lock until 2020 and beyond that double lock so that pensions rise

either with or inflation, whichever is

higher. That is a fair deal for our pensioners. We want to see some

legislation in the national Assembly to ensure older people's rights are

enshrined in law. Children's rights and other people's rights, so why

not pensioners? I will come back to Carol in a second too asked the

question. The lady here first of all.

The NHS is already in decline, how do you plan to address the potential

NHS employee shortage that would be caused by Brexit and new immigration

rules? Can we just, Neil, given that you have a perspective on this, can

you answer that? The impact of Brexit on staffing in the NHS. How

do you deal with that? There should be no problem at all. As with every

other country in the world, which manages and controls immigration,

you can select the groups of people that you want. The problem that -

There's no impact? Well, there shouldn't be any impact. At the

minute we do in effect discriminate against the world -- the rest of the

world by having free movement in the EU and control in the rest of the

world. What we want is to have a non-discriminatory immigration

policy which applies equally to all countries in the world and every

year we will see what the skills gaps are in our economy and we will

make provision for that in the numbers that we allow to come here.

Is that a credible answer, what do you think? Successive Welsh

governments of Labour, Plaid Cymru and Labour and the Lib Dems and

Labour have not trained enough doctors and nurses. That's why we're

in this pickle. We have doctors surgeries closing in some parts of

Wales, including my own constituency - The Brexit impact on the NHS

staffing, what is the impact? There will be a merit based immigration

system which will ensure that we've got the skill that's we need here in

Wales and across the United Kingdom, including the skills that we require

for our Health Service. Are you concerned about the potential impact

on the Health Service? I'm not concerned because we actually have

people coming from outside the European Union into the Health

Service right now. If you go into any hospital in Wales, you will see

that is absolutely the case. That can continue, but fundamentally we

need to get back to training enough doctors in Wales rather than having

to import them from elsewhere. Lady in the corner. Going back to

the pensions questions, what about the waspy situation, the ladies of

the 1950s who are not able to get their pensions until age 66 and they

were never told. What do you plan to do about that? Thank you very much.

Gentleman here in the front. My concern with Brexit is we're going

to lose money in terms of EU funding, now my concern would you

start cutting on the basic vital sectors in society, like NHS,

education, or basic benefits? One of the US presidents before being

elected he said, read my lips, there will be no tax cut. And the first

thing he did after winning the election is he arranged the taxes.

Can you give me the security openly that you will not do these cuts? The

record of the UK Conservative-led Government since 2010 is one of

additional increases in NHS expenditure to record levels. What

we saw in Wales was actually cuts. Cuts which delivered longer waiting

times than in England, longer waiting times for diagnostic tests

and treatment, worse ambulance statistics - Much better than

England. Much better. Many more people waiting more than four hours

in our emergency departments than they should be. That is a legacy of

failure that all the parties here on the panel are responsible for. We've

got to get back to insetting properly in our National Health

Service. There will be an additional ?400 million available to Wales over

the course of the next Parliament if Theresa May is Prime Minister

specifically for the Health Service. I want Carwyn Jones to guarantee

that money will be passed on, I suspect he won't. If we get massive

cuts everywhere else but more money for health it's a zero sum game. You

didn't pass all the money on in the last Parliament. You can't divorce

the two, per head, 7% more. We see a doctors strike in England, a new

cancer centre being built in Cardiff on your doorstep, a neonatal care

unit being built now. They would not have been built if they were in

England. They are because we decided to invest in Wales. The last thing

we should do is make Britain appear unfriendly to doctors from other

countries. Medicine is a portable qualification. The last thing we

should do is make the UK look like a place that is unfriendly to

recruiting doctors and nurses from abroad when 6% of our doctors come

from the EU. We have to look unfriendly to the rest of the world

because we have free movement in the EU. That's what we want to change.

More unfriendly. Quite the opposite. I'm sorry. I know you're trying to

get in. I need to move on. A few minutes left. The final question.

Rachel, where are you? You're a student, I believe. Yeah. Could you

tell us, where are you studying? Cardiff University. A fine choice,

if I may say. So what's your question. My question is: With the

future looking so uncertain at the minute, what is the panel's view for

Wales' position within the UK within the next ten years? We are up

against the clock my dear friends, so on this I really do want you to

be concise. I'm going to start with, I think it's Neil's turn this time.

I want to reverse the trend of my lifetime where Wales has gone

backwards relatively within the UK. We're now at the bottom of the table

of the nations and regions of the UK in terms of income and gross value

added. That's a relic of failure by Labour governments and Conservative

governments as well. What we need is to create an enterprise economy in

the new wide world that we're going to rejoin as a result of leaving the

EU and so, raise the income levels of Wales by inacrossing a business

friendly environment here which is going to generate the wealth that we

all need to redistribute. What I don't want is a Wales of Tory cuts,

a Wales where young people are ignored and squeezed, where older

people are cast onto the scrap heap, where entrepreneurship is not

rewarded, public services are destroyed as they are in England.

People might think the things will carry on as they are, things will

get a lot worse. We've had seven years of Tory cuts. We will get a

lot more. I want a Wales where fairness, justice and opportunities

are not optional extras, but they're part of what we do as a society. A

Wales where people are given a chance to flourish, where young

people have investment made in their skills, where older people are

looked after, and above all else, where business newerish to create

the income to pay for our public services. That's my Wales. I believe

that's your Wales and together we can build that Wales

Leanne? As we look to the future, I see the Muller Anniversary Gameses

potential that -- the amazing potential we have, I hope you would

agree that Wales could be doing even better as a nation. We already have

a country we can be proud of. But we can be doing so much better. We've

got potential in our economy, in our energy, in our NHS, our education

systems. Potential that is yet to be unlocked. Over the next five to ten

years, I want to see that potential unlocked with a Plaid Cymru

government in an Assembly which has more powers and which becomes a real

Parliament capable of providing real improvements in people's lives, a

strong team of Plaid Cymru MPs can help our country by ensuring that

the Brexit deal that we get helps our economy instead of holding it

back. So get behind Plaid Cymru in this election and join me in working

towards a more positive future for Wales.

Thank you very much. Daran? I believe the future of Wales and the

future of the United Kingdom can be fantastic outside the European

Union, but it's very important that we support, that we secure the right

deal as part of the negotiation process which will start just 11

days after the vote next week. I believe that the best person to

deliver the right deal for Wales and the rest of the UK is Theresa May. I

don't accept that Jeremy Corbyn is the right man for the job. What we

will do in delivering on the referendum result, people in Wales

voted for leaving the EU remember, is we will actually begin to be able

to take control of our own laws so that laws made it Westminster and

Cardiff are the ones which actually affect people's lives. We'll be able

to take control of our own borders, our own money, whilst we build a

deep and special relationship, yes, with the rest of the EU, but also

with the wider world. That's where the opportunities lie. Our National

Assembly will receive more powers, which will be devolved to it as a

result of the Brexit process. I'm confident that will strengthen our

devolved institutions as well across the UK. I'm very excited about the

opportunities for Wales post Brexit. I believe that Theresa May is the

right person to be leading those negotiations so that we get the best

possible deal. Thank you. Mark. The Wales in which

I live with my family is warm, embracing, tolerant, united,

community-based - they're qualities we should be proud of and we should

strengthen. I look it a Wales that is strong within the United Kingdom.

Its voice is heard around the tables of Whitehall and elsewhere. A whauls

that acknowledges -- Whitehall that acknowledges its responsibilities to

Wales, whether that be funding, or as we move forward to devolution,

making my colleagues here the real decision makers for Wales, not

dependent on decisions by UK ministers. A Wales that has a role

in the world. Yes, there are opportunities with Brexit. But even

at this point, where we are now, let's not turn our back on Europe,

that has been good for Wales. We must remember that. As we conclude

this last of the leaders' debates, I think, just to say that no one party

has a monopoly of love of this country or a desire to defend its

interests. That's the responsibility of all of us, regardless of our

party. Thank you very much. Thank you for those statements.

APPLAUSE We've just got a matter of seconds

left. Rachel, you asked the question, as a student, you're

looking ahead to your career and life and I'm thinking about what's

been said here about Wales, what's your perspective? I resonate most

with Leanne. I think Wales has a lot of potential. It will be amazing to

see Welsh patriotism go beyond just Welsh rugby matches and for our

language and for our country to be taken more seriously. Thank you very

much. Carol, you asked the question earlier, what's your perspective as

we close this debate, we're looking ahead to the Wales of five, ten

years hence. A grow with what three of the panel have said in their

final closing, that Wales is a wonderful country. I chose to live

here, I sadly wasn't born here. I am very concerned that at least two of

our guests this evening seem to have no understanding of how ordinary

Welsh people are living. Thank you very much. Very brief. With regards

to Mark Williams, you talk about defending Wales and standing up for

Wales, well, as the Welsh MP that's performing worst in Westminster, you

are hardly the person or the party to really defend Wales. In all

fairness, Mark doesn't even have time to come back on this. Are you

saying no? I'm saying no. Fine. One very quickly. Thank you very much.

For all of you, particularly for the First Minister, who is effectively

Prime Minister of Wales, next five, ten years, your stats from your own

government says for the 16 to 64-year-olds the percentage of

unemployed drawing unemployment benefit, number one in the UK,

number one north-east, number two Wales. ? Thank you very much. Lots

of very strongly made points. I'm afraid, Sir, and to all of you here,

our time sup. I'm really sorry. 90 minutes has flown, thanks to our

politicians, thanks to the audience, here at the SSC Swalec stadium. I'm

sorry for those I didn't get in. The debate continues with a special

programme on BBC Two Wales right now. You can continue to have your

say on social media. The hashtag is BBC Wales debate. A full list of

candidates by the way, standing in this election is available on the

BBC website. So, from Cardiff, thank you all for watching. Just over a

week left to make up your mind. Diolch am wylio, nos

da, have a good night.