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And there was a time when a lesser figure then Benjamin Disraeli said | :00:14. | :00:43. | |
that an architect be hanged. The current Houses of Parliament rose | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
from the ashes of the fire and that story is told today. Her is Mr | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
Barry's war Caroline, the Mr Barry was the architect of the Victorian | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
building the we knew today and he worked with a medievalist designer. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
What was the nature of the partnership? Who did what? Charles | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
Barry was the architect in charge. He brought people into help him. | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
Barry was a brilliant classical architect, fantastic at ground | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
planning. To get the Gothic detailing that was required by the | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
rules. Thereafter, they had a partnership on and off in creating | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
this amazingly famous building. The Gothic detailing is what makes the | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
Palace of Westminster, isn't it? The gold, murals, the statue. It is what | :01:40. | :01:49. | |
makes the Palace of Westminster on the service. You have to remember | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
this is extraordinary in terms of its planning, the way it is laid | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
out. The way that people can circulate around it. That was | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
Barry's real genius and contribution to the overall plan. He was the | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
person who was having to deal with all of the politics, the reputation | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
issues associated with building the Palace as well. This was a great | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
mega project of its error with vast amount of public and political and | :02:15. | :02:23. | |
royal -- its era. Did it ever buckle under the strain of scrutiny? It | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
started off well. His co-architect regarded Barry as his mental. Both | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
men were geniuses. They were the only men who understood each other. | :02:36. | :02:44. | |
-- was his mental. They had very different personalities, Barry was | :02:45. | :02:46. | |
very measured, tactful, good politics. Kept to a regular routine. | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
Had a very stable home life throughout the course of the | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
building. His co-architect was very emotional. Had affairs, married | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
three times. You always know what he's thinking about. His letters | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
survive and you have a really good of the ups and downs of where he | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
was. Barry's correspondence was destroyed either by him by his son | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
's subsequent to his death. We have do understand him through first-hand | :03:20. | :03:28. | |
accounts. We never hear his voice. Let's go back to the great fire that | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
destroyed Parliament. Was it immediately obvious that they were | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
going to rebuild on that site? There was considerable debate following | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
the fire as to whether Parliament should move away altogether. There | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
have been suggestions leading up to the fire that Regents Park should be | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
chosen. In fact became actually offered Buckingham Palace. He hated | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
Buckingham Palace. That was rejected. Within five days of the | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
fire itself, the person in charge of royal palaces at the time decided | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
that there would be temporarily changes built on site for the | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
duration of any rebuilding and then they let a competition happen to | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
enable an architect to come forward. By a competition? One of the | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
interesting things about the competition brief was that it had to | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
be in a Gothic or Elizabethan style. Why a competition, why a style? | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
Initially it was thought that it was going to go to Robert Smirk. He was | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
a favourite of Robert Peel, the Prime Minister. There was a | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
firestorm of complaint in the press and the public realm and so Smack | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
didn't get the job and it was decided that there would be a public | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
competition. Anyone could enter and would pay a pound to get the ground | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
plans for the site. One of the key roles set by the members was that it | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
should be in the Gothic or Elizabethan style and by Elizabethan | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
they meant perpendicular Gothic, like you get at Kings College | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
Cambridge, for example. One of the reasons they said that in the | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
competition was that the ruined Chapel of Saint Stephen 's revealed | :05:32. | :05:40. | |
again because of the fire had come back to life having been bad back, | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
it was their right on the doorstep. As they would debating what was | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
going to be happening. I think that influenced them tremendously in | :05:48. | :05:56. | |
terms of what style. So they had a Gothic masterpiece right in the | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
middle of the site. Yes, tottering. Still there. You talked a lot | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
earlier about how Barry's genius meant that the public could | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
circulate around and that of course is a complete contrast to what had | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
gone before because the old Palace of Westminster which was destroyed | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
by fire was basically a higgledy-piggledy conglomeration of | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
buildings over the centuries. Was there an idea that there was | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
something much better organised in the future needed? Yes. Much bigger | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
spaces, dedicated division lobbies, enough space for libraries, four | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
restaurants. It is to meet constituents. It was actually very | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
specifically laid out in the competition rules what was required. | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
How good was the competition entries that came in Chris McCann many? 97 | :06:49. | :06:59. | |
entries. --? How many? Some were completely mad. Somewhat pedestrian. | :07:00. | :07:09. | |
A handful will really interesting. The judges found themselves having | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
to look through 1400 different drawings from the competitors to | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
decide who was going to win. What sort of Houses of Parliament might | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
we have had? Thomas Hopper who was a favourite architect of George IV put | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
forward a scheme where he was going to doubles and Stephen's Chapel and | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
have the old building being the new House of Commons and the new | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
duplicate Saint Stephen's coming the House of Lords. He also proposed | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
doubling Westminster Hall. I can't imagine how that would have worked | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
or what they would have been used for. His scheme was pretty wacky. | :07:52. | :08:00. | |
And an entry that didn't get sent in is portrayed in a painting by an | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
architect called JM Gandhi and he has created a giant classical | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
Sennett house in St James's Park for the House of Lords which is an | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
absolutely hilarious thing. Extraordinary designs that have come | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
forward. Barry wins it. Incidentally, Augustus Pugin was to | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
timing him at this point working for another designer. 'S right. To make | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
one was known as being very good -- Augustus Pugin was known for being | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
very good at Gothic design. He was doing the whole design on his other | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
one, but Barry had his design and he asked Augustus Pugin to add to it. | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
He would change Augustus Pugin's designed after he received the extra | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
things that Augustus Pugin had put on. It was a melding of the two | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
men's genius. And Barry and Augustus Pugin won hands down. It was thought | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
to be the outstanding entry. Augustus Pugin was not credited. It | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
was Barry's name that when Ford as the architect. That was the start of | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
a quarter of a century long project. It was not smooth sailing the whole | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
way through. Augustus Pugin went for three years to do his own | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
architectural project... Practice and then Barry asked to come back in | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
the middle of the 18 1840s with rooms that he was having problems | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
with, particularly the Royal throne. Augustus Pugin came back in the | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
mid-18 40s and initially there collaboration was very friendly. As | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
the pressure of the project continued, the money started to run | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
out, Barry had to cut Augustus Pugin's salary as well as his own. | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
And poor old Augustus Pugin, unbeknownst to everybody, had this | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
mystery illness which turned out in the end to be syphilis and by the | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
time of his death at the age of 40, it had got to his brain and had | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
turned him in Saint. A lot of the mood swings, a lot of the ups and | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
downs that you see in his correspondence are because of his | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
mental health failing terribly. Augustus Pugin came to a wretched | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
end, but Barry came to a sticky one as well. All the interested parties | :10:30. | :10:37. | |
trying to get their pet schemes in. Tell us about that. The most | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
notorious one was the ventilation schemes of a Scottish chemist called | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Doctor David Boswell read, he was brought in as the condition an | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
expert over Barry's head and proceeded to punch holes in Barry's | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
designed to create great events through the palace itself that | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
compromise the fireproofing that Barry had put in very carefully to | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
ensure that there wasn't going to be a repeat of 1834. In fact, we are | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
still living with that legacy today because it is those pence that | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
Boswell read put in there whenever used, that are filled with all the | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
obsolete wiring and pipework and asbestos that mean that today the | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
Houses of Parliament need restoration and all that needs to be | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
ripped out. That is not the only problem. There is a problem with Big | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
Ben, the bell, which cracked. Yes, Big Ben broke twice. The first Big | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
Ben was cast in Stockton appointees, it managed to make its way on a | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
boat. It was pulled across Westminster Bridge by a team of 16 | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
white horses to great clapping crowds and then it was wrong for a | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
year on the ground in new Palace Yard to test it and just a few days | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
before it was due to be installed, it cracked. That had to be broken up | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
and the second Big Ben was recast. It turned up at Westminster, it was | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
fine after the test readings, but then it was discovered that it was | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
too big to get into the base of the tower. It had to be tipped on its | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
side and pushed in sideways. Winch tap. It was righted at the top and | :12:31. | :12:42. | |
once it started to ring it cracked again. It is still there. They | :12:43. | :12:52. | |
turned it a bit. Meanwhile, the MPs weren't too sold on the new common's | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
chamber that Barry had designed for them, either? They complained | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
bitterly about the acoustics. That is where they suggested hanging him. | :13:01. | :13:08. | |
Yes, why it was so expensive, why it had taken so long and they demanded | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
that he lowered the ceiling of the chamber to improve the sound | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
quality. He did, but that involved cutting through Augustus Pugin's | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
stained-glass window design that he was so furious that he refused to | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
ever set foot in the common's chamber. As it began to emerge from | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
the wreckage of the original parliamentary buildings, did people | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
start to like it or see the point of it once they could see at emerging? | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
Epic the public was always behind it and particularly the celebrities | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
that Barry brought in across European royal houses absolutely | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
adored it. It became the must see site of London for royal visitors | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
coming to see Queen Victoria. It was really the politicians, the | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
Government, who were constantly complaining about the building. | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
There were casualties along the way, by spectacularly the painted chamber | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
which had started life as the bedroom of King Henry the third, | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
full of medieval murals as the name suggests and that was just casually | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
knocked down as the work went on. Yes. That was the temporary House of | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
Lords. All the paintings had been burned away by the fire itself, but | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
the walls were found to be sturdy enough to be able to be reroofed as | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
this temporarily Shaq, if you like. It was swept away in 1851. As well | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
as all the other old buildings that weren't kept. Westminster remains | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
and the undercroft Chapel, as This whole complex has evolved and | :14:48. | :14:57. | |
we are into another phase of redevelopment. Another era of | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
restoration and renewal to get the building into shape. Should the | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
people conducting that look on this tale and tremble? Well, there are | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
lessons from history but they are really lessons from any major | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
building programme. One of the interesting proposals coming out of | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
the joint committee on the restoration and renewal of the | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
Houses of Parliament is that there should be a delivery authority, like | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
the Olympic delivery authority that was so successful, and had a rehab | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
that in the 19th century that would have solved a lot of his problems. | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
It was never quite clear to him who was his client? Was it the office of | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
woods, was it the Government, was at the Treasury, was at the individual | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
MPs, was at the Prime Minister? Understanding the governance between | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
who is in charge and he was delivering is really important, I | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
think that is what the delivery authority is designed to do. You | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
have written about the great fire that destroyed the original | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
buildings Comey you have now described the emergence of the vote | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Tory and Palace of Westminster. Can we look forward to -- of the | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
Victorian Palace of Westminster. Can we look forward to volume three? I'm | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
still working on what that might be! Thank you for joining us. Book talk | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
will be back again next week, do join us then. | :16:17. | :16:48. | |
It is frustrating when the FBI refuses to answer this committee's | :16:49. | :16:56. | |
questions. But leaks relevant information to the media. In other | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
words, they don't talk to us, but somebody talks to the media. | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton | :17:11. | :17:11. | |
investigation? | :17:12. | :17:12. |