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John Reith had long funded who
profile -- had long funded air who | 0:00:33 | 0:00:42 | |
profile career, despite the fact
that his father told him it was full | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
of snares and as abutments. He was
invited to become Minister of | 0:00:44 | 0:00:49 | |
information, and a safe seat was
found for him at Southampton. He | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
later admitted to Churchill that he
was rather frightened of the House | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
of Commons. Not nearly so frightened
as they are of you, Churchill | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
replied. Still, he didn't mind
sitting for Southampton. He said, I | 0:01:00 | 0:01:05 | |
would much rather have Southampton
than Bournemouth or any other place | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
with no special interest. He was
returned unopposed, and entered the | 0:01:08 | 0:01:14 | |
House in February 19 40. He enjoyed
being a new member, and he thought | 0:01:14 | 0:01:20 | |
certain aspects of politics most
revolting, like the necessity of | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
keeping in with one's constituents.
Luckily for him, after a few months | 0:01:22 | 0:01:27 | |
and just one major speech, he was
kicked upstairs to the Lords in a | 0:01:27 | 0:01:32 | |
re-shuffle. No more constituents. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
It is deeply embedded in Britain's
national consciousness, the image of | 0:02:04 | 0:02:10 | |
a country standing alone against
Nazi Germany galvanised by the | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
leadership of Winston Churchill.
There wasn't anything inevitable | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
about his arrival in Downing Street.
It took a complex set of events to | 0:02:18 | 0:02:24 | |
force out his predecessor and to put
Churchill in his place. There was | 0:02:24 | 0:02:30 | |
defeat and fatal misjudgment,
unravelled by my guest in his new | 0:02:30 | 0:02:35 | |
minute. Set the scene for us. The
Second World War is under way, | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
Poland has been overrun by the Nazis
but it has gone quiet. Chamberlain | 0:02:39 | 0:02:46 | |
thought he could strangle Germany by
an economic blockade. He hoped by | 0:02:46 | 0:02:51 | |
April, May the war would be over.
Churchill who he had brought into | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
his cabinet, in September, as first
Lord of the Admiralty was constantly | 0:02:56 | 0:03:01 | |
arguing, he wanted action against
Germany, and at every cabinet | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
meeting he brought up the idea of
mining the entrants to the area in | 0:03:04 | 0:03:13 | |
Norway providing all The Iron ore
and finally, in April, the Cabinet | 0:03:13 | 0:03:19 | |
gave him the go-ahead to mine the
entrance to the area and the next | 0:03:19 | 0:03:24 | |
day Germany invaded Norway and
Denmark, suddenly church isles great | 0:03:24 | 0:03:31 | |
plan for dramatic action became the
first kind of next action after the | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
invasion of Poland, and church,
having promoted it directed this | 0:03:36 | 0:03:43 | |
disastrous military campaign which
lasted about three weeks, in which | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
he sent ships from England to
Norway, they landed, in three | 0:03:46 | 0:03:50 | |
different parts of Norway, and
within two weeks, we were, three | 0:03:50 | 0:03:56 | |
weeks before Dunkirk we are
evacuating our army from Norway. He | 0:03:56 | 0:04:01 | |
is the author of an debacle. It is
Prso the worst military catastrophe | 0:04:01 | 0:04:10 | |
since the Crimea, Parliament,
suddenly, the ministers had been led | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
to believe this was a great military
victory, trumpeted in the press, we | 0:04:13 | 0:04:20 | |
have landed, taken it suddenly the
public and the politicians woke up | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
to the fact that we were evacuating
our army, and Parliament was | 0:04:24 | 0:04:32 | |
assembled to ostensibly, it was a
procedure for the holiday to have | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
ten days of holiday, so the
opposition and the rebel Tory MPs | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
decided to use this two day debate
to try and unseat Chamberlain, but | 0:04:39 | 0:04:45 | |
he had a majority of 21. He was
unseatable. Nobody when the debate | 0:04:45 | 0:04:50 | |
begins to examine the causes of this
debacle. Churchill is going to wind | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
up for it. The first time he has
wound up for a debate in 11 year, he | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
will wind up to try and explain the
catastrophe of which he was the | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
architect, Chamberlain is going to
open it. Nobody hen he got up on | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
Tuesday 7th May at 3.30 to explain
this catastrophe, believed that the | 0:05:08 | 0:05:14 | |
Government would be unseated. When
we look at the Norway debate, what | 0:05:14 | 0:05:20 | |
some people call the hinge of fate,
the moment Britain decided to change | 0:05:20 | 0:05:25 | |
its leadership, the two main
protagonist are Neville Chamberlain | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
and Winston Churchill. They are not
debating against each other, they | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
are supposedly on the same side.
Chamberlain is almost dismissed as | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
the weak man who was Hitler's, he
manned to pull the wool over his | 0:05:38 | 0:05:43 | |
eyes, what was Chamberlain really
like as a Prime Minister? Minister? | 0:05:43 | 0:05:47 | |
Husband he as whack a figure as
people believe? What was gripping to | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
me, I approached this through church
hill's lens, the official version is | 0:05:52 | 0:05:56 | |
written by Churchill eight years
later Theth Gaerring Storm we see he | 0:05:56 | 0:06:03 | |
is a dupe, a weak, stubborn
individual, weak, vain and Churchill | 0:06:03 | 0:06:09 | |
dominated the procedure, again, you
put the wool over this, and they got | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
on much better than history or
Churchill allowed at the time, and | 0:06:13 | 0:06:19 | |
there is evidence that Chamberlain
thought he was in, Churchill was | 0:06:19 | 0:06:23 | |
incredibly loyal to him, which isn't
something we necessarily feel about | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
him. He has twice crossed the floor
of the House of Commons and | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
reratted. And during this period I
think it is Churchill's loyalty that | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
allows him to slip into
Chamberlain's shoes, and when | 0:06:34 | 0:06:41 | |
Churchill becomes Prime Minister
Chamberlain is the person who allows | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
him to fight the Battle of Britain,
Chamberlain instead of what happened | 0:06:44 | 0:06:49 | |
in 1916 when Asquith is taken over,
he goes off in a huff and Lloyd | 0:06:49 | 0:06:54 | |
George has to kind of rule without
the help of what Churchill had the | 0:06:54 | 0:07:03 | |
Chief Whip helping him because... He
had his back. It is Chamberlain's | 0:07:03 | 0:07:08 | |
Spitfires and hurricanes are winning
the Battle of Britain. Churchill | 0:07:08 | 0:07:12 | |
argued for bomber, he said I will
never find such a colleague again. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
That is after May when came were
lain is holding the fort when | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
Churchill is in France. Let us look
at the transition that happens | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
during this debate. It is an
electric moment in the end, but it | 0:07:23 | 0:07:30 | |
starts off low-key, everyone expects
the Government to have a rough ride | 0:07:30 | 0:07:32 | |
and suddenly things boil up. What
happened to make that occur? There | 0:07:32 | 0:07:38 | |
is a moment at which Admiral Keys
who had argued, a great friend of | 0:07:38 | 0:07:45 | |
chup hill but he argued to --
Churchill to go into Norway, become | 0:07:45 | 0:07:51 | |
a swashbuckling as he has done in
Zeebrugge in 1918. Suddenly, he | 0:07:51 | 0:07:56 | |
hears that the Navy, the reputation
of the Navy has been traduced. The | 0:07:56 | 0:08:01 | |
Navy is coming the blame. He is so
outraged. He gets up and he is a bad | 0:08:01 | 0:08:06 | |
speaker and he suddenly giving what
many people say is the most | 0:08:06 | 0:08:12 | |
devastating speech they have heard.
He attacks Churchill, he attacks the | 0:08:12 | 0:08:18 | |
Admiralty. Up to that moment I think
the government were going to get | 0:08:18 | 0:08:27 | |
away with it. Suddenly, here is a
staunch supporter and hitherto of | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
the Government attacking it. The
next later that night, another | 0:08:31 | 0:08:37 | |
member gets up. A great friend of
Churchill. A fellow constituency for | 0:08:37 | 0:08:43 | |
30 years, adjacent to Chamberlain.
He is the Godfather of Chamberlain | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
's son. They train every day. He
gets up and delivers the most | 0:08:47 | 0:08:53 | |
devastating attack, even more
devastating than Geoffrey Howe's | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
attack on Margaret Thatcher, to a
colleague. He ends it with a speech | 0:08:56 | 0:09:04 | |
from Cromwell addressing the long
Parliament, in the game of God go. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
This is one of the most dramatic
moments I think in it is accepted in | 0:09:07 | 0:09:13 | |
Parliamentary history. What is
curious, act the fact the entire | 0:09:13 | 0:09:17 | |
eyes and ears of the nation are on
it and that Parliament is full, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:23 | |
no-one knows whether Chamberlain was
present to hear it. It is so | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
gripling even though I love the
expression, the darkest place is | 0:09:26 | 0:09:31 | |
always underneath the lamp. Here,
no-one has gone over this with with | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
more forensic attention than all the
historians of the last 50 years but | 0:09:35 | 0:09:40 | |
we don't know if Chamberlain is in
the room. One of the fascinating | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
things is this photograph of that
debate, with Chamberlain on his | 0:09:45 | 0:09:49 | |
feet, it is blurred. It is out of
focus. It is underexposed but you | 0:09:49 | 0:09:55 | |
can kind of make out some some of of
the main players. It is thought one | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
of the blobs at the back is Amy
jabbing his finger at Chamberlain. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
That seems to me, these photographs
were taken Ellis Italily. You | 0:10:04 | 0:10:10 | |
weren't allowed to take picture,
there are no pictures of Chamberlain | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
in the old House of Commons which
was bombed in 1941. These are the | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
only ones that exist of these two
famous important individuals in our | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
history. As you say they are like
jellyfish, blurred and they are | 0:10:22 | 0:10:27 | |
taken by a Conservative MP who
Churchill later makes a minister, | 0:10:27 | 0:10:33 | |
with a spy camera he gets from
Latvia, and he takes them, and you | 0:10:33 | 0:10:38 | |
are not allowed he would have been
expelled from the chamber and | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
suspended. The sergeant at arms
suspects he is taking them, he slips | 0:10:42 | 0:10:48 | |
him a note and brings out a
cigarette lighter which he rubs | 0:10:48 | 0:10:53 | |
along his nose. These photographs
when the House of Commons is bombed, | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
many of the records were
obliterated. These were only | 0:10:57 | 0:11:02 | |
discovered in the 60s and finally
printed up and they are the only | 0:11:02 | 0:11:06 | |
real recordings of this event, and
again it showed me it was a metaphor | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
to me that we think we know about
this stuff, it is so familiar but it | 0:11:10 | 0:11:15 | |
is not. It is still new. I mean...
But to move on to the next big | 0:11:15 | 0:11:20 | |
event. The two speeches from Admiral
Keys, the killer blow is | 0:11:20 | 0:11:30 | |
administered by David Lloyd George.
Lloyd George gets up, he has gone up | 0:11:30 | 0:11:36 | |
in a sulk. He has left the chamber
and so he misses this altercation | 0:11:36 | 0:11:43 | |
between Chamberlain and Morrison,
until the second day of the debate, | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
Labour are not going to divide the
house, because they don't feel, they | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
think, what is going to happen to
them it will consolidate the | 0:11:50 | 0:11:56 | |
Conservatives just as Jeremy Corbyn
was consolidated when there was a | 0:11:56 | 0:12:00 | |
vote of no confidence. It will make
him stronger. They are not going to | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
divide is House. On the second day
an intelligence officer comes back | 0:12:03 | 0:12:08 | |
from Norway, who is a prospective
Conservative MP and he is so upset | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
with what he has seen in Norway he
has written a memorandum, and he | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
instead of going into the the House
of Commons in his combat fatigues to | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
give it to the Chief Whip or the
Conservatives he gives it to at Lee. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:24 | |
He says the Leader of the
Opposition, he says you have to act. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
This is what happened in Norway. It
was a disaster. If we still have | 0:12:27 | 0:12:34 | |
these people in power. Soth Lee
reads this and decides to convene | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
the Labour executive and Shea we are
going to diI vice the house. The | 0:12:39 | 0:12:44 | |
Conservatives think they have got
away with it. Despite Keys and | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
aimry, they think they will get
through this vote for Whit sun | 0:12:48 | 0:12:54 | |
holiday, Herbert Morrison gets up to
speak for Labour. At the end he says | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
we are going to divide the house.
Chamberlain makes this catastrophic | 0:12:57 | 0:13:03 | |
responsibilities. He says we have
friends in the House. Using the | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
Parliamentary term but it is
interpreted is this is a personal | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
thing. I have friend who will back
me up so to speak. Speak. Lloyd | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
George is absent but he has been
told about it. They say come down | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
David. There is a great altercation
in Welsh from celeb meant Davis the | 0:13:17 | 0:13:23 | |
liberal MP. Saying you have to come
down and attack Chamberlain because | 0:13:23 | 0:13:27 | |
he is appealing to friends. What did
he say? He comes down, he gets up, | 0:13:27 | 0:13:33 | |
he doesn't want to attack Churchill
his old friend, and Lloyd George | 0:13:33 | 0:13:40 | |
gets up, and he says that this
period calls for sacrifice and the | 0:13:40 | 0:13:47 | |
is no greater sacrifice that
Chamberlain must give up the seals | 0:13:47 | 0:13:53 | |
of office.
El Is devastating. It is like eight | 0:13:53 | 0:14:00 | |
years of of pent up criticism
against Chamberlain is uncorked. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:08 | |
Churchill is overheard saying it is
difficult for me to end the debate. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
Churchill then goes down to wrap up
the debate, and there is endless cat | 0:14:11 | 0:14:17 | |
calls from Labour. It is bedlam. He
is trying to defend an untenable | 0:14:17 | 0:14:24 | |
position, and he is trying to defend
Chamberlain, who he would like to | 0:14:24 | 0:14:29 | |
replace. This is where we get to the
six minutes in May of this title. It | 0:14:29 | 0:14:34 | |
denotes the time it took for the
vote. What happened in that vote, | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
because it was just a vote to
adjourn. It was a purely technical | 0:14:38 | 0:14:45 | |
motion. What happened? One of the
grip things in researching this, I | 0:14:45 | 0:14:50 | |
discovered that at the end of every
debate there is a Victorian egg | 0:14:50 | 0:14:57 | |
timer, the clerks turn it over you
have six minutes for the politicians | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
to go into the aye or the No lobby.
Then the doors are locked by the | 0:15:00 | 0:15:05 | |
keepers and you can't vote after
that. So when the MP, the division | 0:15:05 | 0:15:12 | |
is sounded, on Wednesday 8th May
about 11.13pm, still no-one really | 0:15:12 | 0:15:18 | |
knows what is going to happen, the
majority of 213 seems unassailable, | 0:15:18 | 0:15:25 | |
and so they cross the floor, people
like John Profumo who is the first | 0:15:25 | 0:15:30 | |
debate he is going to vote in. He is
a Conservative MP and he goes into | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
vote against the Government and he
is spat on by a government minister. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:39 | |
People are watching which they are
going. Only as they come out of the | 0:15:39 | 0:15:45 | |
lobbies does the yelling begin.
People are shouting trait efor or | 0:15:45 | 0:15:50 | |
yes men, the teller come out. There
is silence and the Government have | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
only got a majority of 81. Having
had a majority of 213, and this is | 0:15:54 | 0:16:00 | |
one of the biggest you have to
remember that in Munich not a single | 0:16:00 | 0:16:05 | |
Tory MP voted against that. This
represents a haemorrhaging. This is | 0:16:05 | 0:16:11 | |
a haemorrhaging of support. He could
carry on. Chamberlain never goes | 0:16:11 | 0:16:19 | |
back except for a brief period. And
then, the kind of argy-bargy begins, | 0:16:19 | 0:16:32 | |
so the great favourite It is a
fascinating account. Churchill | 0:16:32 | 0:16:39 | |
ultimately wins it but does this
book to some grow pull him off his | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
pedestal. He reveals he does
culpable in the military disaster. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:58 | |
Subtitles resume on "Thursday
in Parliament" at 2300. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:13 |