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In nine days' time my next guest Jeremy Corbyn is hoping to become | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
this country's seventh Labour Prime Minister. In the run-up to polling | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
day we have invited leaders hour to tell us about themselves and why we | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
should vote for them. Good morning. The last time we met you were trying | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
to become the Labour leader for the first time. No pink buses on this | :00:35. | :00:47. | |
general election. You probably want to talk about childcare. Your party | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
announced this morning about extending childcare for all to to | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
four-year-olds. I wanted to know why you wanted to do that as you are | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
coming on woman's hour. Isn't this an issue that affects everyone? Of | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
course. It affects the whole community. It affects all of our | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
children and it is there in the manifesto and set out because the | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
moment we have a patchwork of preschool opportunities, childcare | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
which means that some children don't get very much opportunities and some | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
get more, what we want is a universal offer of 30 hours per | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
week. We know from polling that the economy tops men and women's top | :01:42. | :01:50. | |
issues. How much will it cost to provide an means tested childcare | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
for 1.3 million children? It will cost a lot to do so, we accept that. | :01:58. | :02:05. | |
It is cost a lot at the point I'm making is we are making universal so | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
sure that every child gets it and sure that every child gets it and | :02:11. | :02:22. | |
those at the moment to get free places... How much will it cost? I | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
will give you the figure in a moment. You have announced a major | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
policy and you don't know how much it will cost? Can I give you the | :02:36. | :02:47. | |
exact figure in a moment? You don't know the figure. All of our | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
manifesto is fully costed and examined. You don't know how much | :02:54. | :03:03. | |
it's going to cost. Can we come back to that in a moment? My point is it | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
is quite troubling because it's a policy you are launching today and | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
you don't know how much it's going to cost. It hardly inspires the | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
voters. What is important for the voters to understand is if we don't | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
invest now children and we don't invest in them for the future they | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
do less well in primary school and secondary school and less well in | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
the future. But you don't know the cost. I want to give you an accurate | :03:30. | :03:37. | |
figure. Why on earth are you giving free childcare is to people who can | :03:38. | :03:47. | |
afford it? The important thing is that all children get a chance to | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
grow up together. At the moment we have a system which separates out in | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
the sense that a child of wealthy parents may well be able to go to a | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
paid for preschool nursery facility but others will not get that chance | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
because their parents can't afford it. But this is a very expensive | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
policy. Would you like to hear how much it's going to cost? It's more | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
important to collect the money back through taxation on the principle of | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
Universalism. The same applies with the NHS and mainstream education. It | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
is a staggering costs. Your Shadow Education Secretary says its ?2.7 | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
billion and banned for pointed alien with half a billion to reverse the | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
cats. Does that sound right? It does. The importance of restoring | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
shorts start is that this Conservative government have close a | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
lot of them down. It has damaged the chances of a lot of children. We | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
have to be in a situation where we trust you with our money and you | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
didn't know those figures. The next nine days are about convincing | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
people you are at to the biggest job in the land. You have never held a | :05:15. | :05:23. | |
ministerial role, a Shadow Cabinet role or Chile select committee and | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
before politics you never ran a big organisation. Harry Fletcher who was | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
a former key adviser left your campaign and said he struggled to | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
cope with the demands of front line politics, your office is ruled by | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
chaos, there is no diary, there are thousands of unopened e-mails and | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
your team is frightened of making decisions. Harry Fletcher was never | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
an adviser. He was a volunteer in my campaign. I didn't expect you not | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
know how much your policy was going to cost. We have manifesto here | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
which is about challenging the direction in which this country has | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
gone in that we have now had seven years of continuous cuts in public | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
expenditure which is hit local government the hardest but also head | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
health and education as well. We have also a process by which | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
corporation tax is being reduced continuously and narrowed down to | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
18%. And we have underfunded public services and the growing gap seen | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
the richest and the poorest. What we are suggesting is that we raise | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
corporation tax to a lower level than it was in 2010 in order to pay | :06:43. | :06:50. | |
for the re-funding of health and social care. I am happy you brought | :06:51. | :07:01. | |
up social care. But you didn't know the figures are key bit of policy | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
and you don't have the experience. My office is not run chaotically. We | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
were put together in two weeks because they and -- election is | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
unexpected. We have an economic strategy which is fundamentally | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
about investment in our economy for the future. Another big battle | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
ground is social care. You plan to increase spending on social care and | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
introduce a national care service but you have not set out again how | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
you would find it. You talk of cross-party consensus on says, | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
employer contributions or a new social care levy but that is quite a | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
range of suggestions. How would you pay for your social care? We would | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
put into billion per year straightaway to cover the funding | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
gap at the moment. We would not put a figure on it of taking away | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
property value. We would fund that now and then come to an agreement on | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
how we do long-term funding of social care. The principle has to be | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
that we will put the money in to deal with the crisis and then make | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
sure we have a principal long-term strategy to ensure the social care | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
is universally available. At the moment it's a very patchy system. | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
Some local authorities do it out of another's. Some people have to give | :08:33. | :08:45. | |
up work. So it's not costed? 2 billion per year would go in now in | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
order to cover the immediate crisis. They have been huge cuts made in | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
social care in the last seven years and that has resulted in these | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
million people and it impacts on health expenditure because people | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
are stuck in hospital when they should leave. Let's move to another | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
area of financial concern: the campaign to tackle inequalities in | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
the stench -- state pension for women born in the 50s. You have said | :09:12. | :09:20. | |
you would give pension credits to help some of these women. In your | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
manifesto it says labour is exploring options for further | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
transitional protections. Why not make a manifesto commits and to | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
compensate these women and spell out what transitional protection you are | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
talking about? We were put in a now to ensure they get pension and | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
credit which would go towards compensating what they have | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
suffered. Then we would make sure they don't lose out because of the | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
way in which the pension age was raised without them expecting it to | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
planning for it. This cohort of women have suffered very badly. Why | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
not make that commitment to compensate? We said we would put | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
pension credit in now and then we would love that way of them for it. | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
There is a manifesto commitment to make sure they don't lose out. I | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
wish we had had more time to get further discussions on it but the | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
principle is whilst they have been badly treated we believe they should | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
be compensated. Let's go to another area of financial concern, the | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
definitive issue of this election, Brexit. Negotiating our elected from | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
the EU. Many people may struggle to differentiate between Labour's | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
position and the Conservatives. Theresa May has said clearly she | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
will walk away with no deal. Would you leave those negotiations with no | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
deal? It seems a strange way to start negotiations. There is little | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
incentive on the other side to come to agreement if you're going to walk | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
off. We have to approach the Brexit negotiations on a number of | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
principles. We have to accept the leaving the EU. Next, guaranteeing | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
EU nationals rights of permanent residence in Britain. They need that | :11:28. | :11:37. | |
certainty. The key part is tariff free trade access to the European | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
market. But would you be willing to walk away with no deal? We will | :11:44. | :11:53. | |
negotiate to get a deal. You don't walk away, you stay at the table to | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
get a deal. If those negotiating now we will do a deal at any cost you | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
are going in on the back foot. It's the other way round, you are saying | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
you want to continue a good trading relationship with Europe. You need | :12:11. | :12:19. | |
to make sure those manufacturing jobs have and you need to make sure | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
European nationals have guaranteed rights. So you are willing to do a | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
deal at any cost? We are not threatening to set this country up | :12:33. | :12:34. | |
as a local Brit tax saving on the shores of Europe. There has to be an | :12:35. | :12:43. | |
economic relationship with Europe. So you are saying there has to be a | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
deal. There has to be in agreement whoever is in government. The | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
principle behind it is tariff free access in order to defend what is | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
here and to maintain the links such as university education and health | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
links. What is your cash out point? Is it 100 billion? We are going to | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
the negotiating table in Brussels with a mandate to say two things, | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
European Union and that we have European Union and that we have | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
fought an election on the basis that we want to achieve a trade agreement | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
with the European Union. That is a good sensible starting point. It's | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
also in the interest of countries in Europe that they have that trade | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
agreement. I am not going to give a cash out point. Labour has pledged | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
to renew Trident. Your lack of a personal commitment to Trident is a | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
tricky one to voters. Who do they believe? The manifesto is a product | :13:49. | :14:01. | |
of the policies of the Labour Party. The Labour Party has debated this | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
issue for a long time. I did vote against the renewal of Trident and I | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
was not successful in that and the party has come to that conclusion. | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
Where we are agreed and what I will Where we are agreed and what I will | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
give a huge priority to is recognising that any nuclear weapons | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
ever used anywhere is catastrophic for the entire planet. I have spent | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
my life working with the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to bring | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
back a nuclear free world and I will put as much effort as I can to bring | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
about the reality of a nuclear free world. You are still its vice | :14:41. | :14:49. | |
president according to its website. I am a member of CND, I am not a | :14:50. | :14:59. | |
vice president. I resigned from those positions when I became leader | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
of the party. Can people trust you on that? I think people will | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
recognise that this manifesto has been produced by a party membership | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
which has put forward a transformational set of policies for | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Britain. I am proud to lead the party. I am proud to accept the | :15:29. | :15:43. | |
democracy of the Labour Party. The point is to be successful in | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
politics you have to bring people together. It is well known that | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
Labour Party has still never elected a woman. Let me ask you this, what | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
single policy do you consider vital to introduce to improve the lives of | :16:02. | :16:12. | |
women? Big investment in early years education and our education strategy | :16:13. | :16:21. | |
in schools. Linking girls to educational opportunities and beyond | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
that it's about encouraging girls to go into science and engineering as | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
well as all the other subjects. My mother was a science teacher and she | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
taught me about the importance of girls in doing engineering and | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
physics and science subjects. It is saying to girls you can do anything | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
and getting that message across but it's also about how we deal with | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
structures and gender inequality and the bug appointments and I have made | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
sure the Shadow Cabinet I've appointed is more than half of | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
female members in it. Some of said you had to do more to | :17:05. | :17:25. | |
stop the abuse coming their way and accuse you of inadequate response. | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
Angela Eagle said you contributed to a permissive environment for abusive | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
behaviour to flourish. Whiting you do more? I did everything I do | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
everything I possibly can. Do of any sort is absolutely unacceptable. I | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
met Angela and all of the women Labour MPs to discuss this issue and | :17:47. | :17:59. | |
pointed out what our policies were. You can't say they didn't do it in | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
your name. They were your supporters. They did not do it in | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
mining because it was made very clear that any degree of abuse is | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
unacceptable. I got in touch with anyone who was involved in the | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
campaigning work to say this is completely unacceptable and | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
completely wrong and it is not within the rules of the Labour | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
Party. Nine days away from finding out if you get the top job, I | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
presume you will resign as leader if you lose? | :18:32. | :18:42. |