Browse content similar to 21/06/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, and welcome to the programme. That does deep title sequence | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
introduced the first Hearts And Minds in 1986. -- 1986. Tonight is | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
the last edition of the programme, and we will indulge ourselves with | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
a look back at over 16 years of intellectual debate. Let them go | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
and boil their heads. So, let's look forward with our final panel | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
of guests. We asked Sinn Fein to take part in the final discussion | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
but then withdrew their interviewees. | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
Nigel Dodds, there are allegations flying around at the moment of Ward | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
rigging, discrimination in employment and in your own minister | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
that term gerrymandering has reared its head again, in opening up new | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
housing developments to loyalist areas that were not initially | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
involved. Have we moved forward? I think over 16 years we have moved | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
considerably far reform would over where Northern Ireland used to be. | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
I remember in these programmes way back them do discussion was about | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
the violence and killings and the decommission ing process and people | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
supporting this police and all that. -- the police. When you consider | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
the progress it is incredible. is it enough? Sometimes it feels | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
like back to the future. These words like discrimination and | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
gerrymandering are still around. I don't believe that we have gone | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
back. I think the one thing we are committed to as a party and have | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
been committed throughout is that everyone must be equally subject to | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
the law and equally subject to the law. We had this duality where | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
people could commit themselves to the democratic process but still be | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
tied to buy list. We made a commitment as the DUP that that | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
would not happen. It is not easy to have a coalition Government. As we | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
have seen in London and in Scotland and Wales and elsewhere. The fact | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
of the matter is, we are moving forward as a society in the | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
political process. We will have to confront the issues that we face. | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
For instant, we had a four Party agreement in Belfast, and I was | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
party to that. That was an incredible step forward, to | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
actually get an agreement on the shared space in one of the most | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
contentious areas of north Belfast. Your party was at the first | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
photocall, now they are talking about Colin indoor lawyers. | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
We will, Nigel said about shared space and about housing on the | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
basis of objective need, and that is not what we have seen in terms | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
of the plans for the 27 acres site. It seems to me from glancing at it | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
there are more places for car parking but there are homes for the | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
2,000 people desperately in need of a home. We have seen how the | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
minister, Nelson McCausland, we have learned how he has changed the | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
housing plans for parts of Belfast. That is a worry in itself. We still | :03:45. | :03:52. | |
have no agreement around assured education should look. We have | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
heard plenty of warm words, but very little action. -- shared | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
education. We have heard about pigs flying | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
before power sharing, vote-rigging in Craigavon, where is the | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
progress? We will, I think that overall the | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
progress is in a sticky patch at the moment. -- well, I think. I | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
think we will move forward. There is obviously tensions in certain | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
areas, but there is a future for Northern Ireland, it is a shared | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
future. I think the reality will come through that and I'd agree | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
with Nigel that when we look back we have made considerable progress. | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
I think there is more to do. There is a lot of black -- back-slapping | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
in that, haven't we done well? A lot of people think it is stark and | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
not going anywhere very fast. Well, I think that sometimes the | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
people do think -- do need to be reminded that we have come a long | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
way. People tend to dismiss the past, but it was not easy and | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
people have done a good job. If it was easy we would have done it by | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
now. There is real progress, there is more progress to be made that | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
will require political leadership. What do you do with people who are | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
seeing pigs will fly before the sheer power? What do you do in | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
places where one party tops the poll but does not get the position | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
because the other parties conspire against them? Well, if everything | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
was homogeneous, if everything happened at coding to plan, -- | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
according to plan, life would be pretty boring. We have to realise, | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
individually, this is the way forward. My party will take action | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
against people who do not understand the political reality. | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
We have done that with people in the past, we will do it again. You | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
have to move forward and accept this is the political reality, | :05:52. | :05:59. | |
there is no alternative. Let me just to bring in an up low, | :05:59. | :06:09. | |
:06:09. | :06:10. | ||
because your party has left discussions about the shared future. | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
-- Anna Lo. By a, we don't see it working, introducing an acceptable | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
strategy. Nigel Dodds is saying this, are | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
they just talking out of the side of their mouths? | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
I think there is another issue to this. There is a strategy called | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
the racial equality strategy, which was shelved at the shame time as | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
they shared future. That has not been revised. There has been a | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
vacuum of community relations, not just between the two major | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
communities, but also in bringing other ethnic minority communities | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
to integrate into Northern Ireland. That is something we need to do. We | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
have not been ambitious enough. We're still very much stuck in the | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
orange and green issues. On the ground, I think, particularly young | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
people, they don't particularly want to be associated with either | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
orange or green or nationalists or Unionism? -- or Unionism. They see | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
themselves as Northern Irish. It's use of cohesion 0.2 issues | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
where we need to make more progress. But take another issue like | :07:23. | :07:32. | |
policing and justice. -- issues of cohesion point to issues. There | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
were all sorts of crazies and we cracked and at one. -- all sorts of | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
crisis. Then be solved this arrangement without any crisis, | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
without politicians coming in to solve problems. Politicians in | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
Northern Ireland did that. Yes, there are issues and there that | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
needs to be discussed and taken forward, but everyone said policing | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
and justice could never be solved. Well, it is solved now. | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
The does all very well saying it has solved, but the point is let's | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
not focus relentlessly on negativity. We need some time to | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
celebrate what has been done without being complacent about what | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
needs to be done. Sinn Fein are not here to talk about things, that is | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
their choice, but Conor Murphy stands accused of religious | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
discrimination in appointing jobs when he was at the Department of | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
Regional Development. How serious is that? He denies it, of course, | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
but how serious do you think it is? It is a serious matter, there is no | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
doubt about it. The SDLP stood for equality from its very foundation. | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
Why there has to be attitudinal changes across society, what we saw | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
in the past some changes only came about because there was a | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
legislative framework that insured people had to comply with it, and | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
that has influenced how society has changed substantially over the last | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
30 years. Equality is still something we must work at and be | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
vigilant over, and it does not matter who anyone is within a our | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
society, they all must add here to the same principles. That is what | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
you see and what everyone says, but we still have allegations about | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
discrimination and gerrymandering in housing, Basil McCrae, at the | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
dis -- perception of what you are all saying and what is happening is | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
widely divergent. The no, it is appalling. | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
The issues of Conor Murphy, the discussions of other parts of the | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
Housing Executive, but part of that is a failure to communicate. | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
Actually, when people understand, certainly in north Belfast, there | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
are difficult issues that need to be resolved, and when you look at | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
the complexities of it, perhaps you have to treat the electorate with | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
more respect and explain to them why and how you did things. I think | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
there is a problem in the process, simply turning up for afforded | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
rough and saying no one can answer any questions, I don't think that | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
is right. I have heard comments from the SDLP | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
and the Unionists, both those representatives agreed with the | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
process in substance. The point is, we are trying to make progress... | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
I was Minister for a number of years, and that was a normal | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
procedure. The point is, we are sitting down as elected | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
representatives across parties working on issues. Communities are | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
doing that. I paid tribute to the hundreds of people working on both | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
sides of the community in north Belfast looking forward to the | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
parades. There has been tremendous work done by then a fast parades | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
for them. Going on, silently, quietly, without any TV cameras or | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
anything else. I pay tribute to all that work. When the his achievement | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
and people moving forward that should be celebrated. That is the | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
future and I am committed to that, and brother have -- than having | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
commentary from people who have glanced at issues, let -- my view | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
is let's get on with the substance... | :11:06. | :11:14. | |
Nelson McCausland, after the plan for development is agreed, for | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
those four areas which are nowhere near the top of the list of housing | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
need, then four loyalist areas get new housing. | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
Yes, Alastair Attwood was against that masterplan. In terms of Nelson | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
McCausland, he has made it very clear that housing is also an | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
astute in terms of regeneration. Housing plays a very important part | :11:36. | :11:44. | |
in that. In terms of Protestant areas in loyalist areas that have | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
been berated and run-down we're determined to have those | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
regenerated as we are determined to regenerate the Catholic side. I was | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
in a meeting in the year 2,000 regenerating both sides, but the | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
regeneration is for the loyalist places, and that includes housing, | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
and we will not be in a place where loyalists and Unionists are denied | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
their share of housing. By the criteria, they do not need | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
them as much as other areas. Under the regeneration criteria, | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
housing is part of the regeneration criteria, just as other issues are | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
part of it come and housing cannot and will not be denied to the | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
loyalist and Unionist people of north Belfast. | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
Where is there no more of them and us of Peter Robinson? What is it? - | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
- where is it? One of the things that has gone | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
recently is the lack of interest in politics, whose fault in that? | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
I think we have not been showing enough leadership. We're still | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
stuck in the past. We need to be looking outside of orange and green | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
issues, flags and all the things people are fed up with... And but | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
that is one of the bigger issues. Your party has voted to support the | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
flying of the armed services flag at Belfast City Hall. | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
I think it is politicians who are worked up about it. If you ask | :13:07. | :13:16. | |
people on the ground, people do not the politicians are out of touch | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
with the electorate? Very much so. We have a lot of environmental | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
issues. We have not really looked at them. We're totally behind the | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
rest of the UK in environmental protection and enhancement of our | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
environment. Looking through the environment committee Madine Bill, | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
it is really only a shadow of the Scottish Marine bill. -- Marine | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
bill. Our politicians lost touch with the | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
electorate here or not? -- have politicians. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
I think they're not brave enough. Some years ago we had big issues | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
and had to wait and communicate with people and I think that | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
happened. Now people are very risk- averse and I don't think that is | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
real leadership. Politicians have to tackle some contentious issues | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
head on and explain to people this is the way forward, and if you | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
agree with me vote for me. What is the first thing you would | :14:15. | :14:21. | |
fix? A education, that has to be fixed. | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
And what sense? We need to have a good resolution | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
to the whole selection debate and we need to know where our children | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
will be and how they will be educated. We also need to know what | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
jobs they will be for young people and had we will look after the old | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
and sick in the future. Get incorporation taxed down and | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
creating jobs for our people. Also reducing the size of the | :14:46. | :14:54. | |
Assembly and bureaucracy in politics. | :14:54. | :15:04. | |
:15:04. | :15:07. | ||
Ball has not lost, thank you very People put their faith in two | :15:07. | :15:15. | |
assumptions. One was that the politics we have were in the hearts | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
and minds of the people. That the ban was on the streets emerged not | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
just out of those are planted bombs, but of us all and the other | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
assumption was that hearts and minds, without that, there was | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
nothing to talk about. Everything, since then, has changed. The | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
politics of deadlocked give way to the politics of the peace process. | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
But sometimes seemed just as deadlocked as the old system but | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
with fewer people getting killed. But year after year, we saw the | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
politicians in the hearts and minds studio. And how many times that you | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
watch those debates and think they were like a wind-up dolls? | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
Comparing the hearts and minds of people now with those then and it | :16:05. | :16:12. | |
seems to be impossible to recover the intractable ideas of then. That | :16:12. | :16:20. | |
is the old context of the history. With the quarrels of today, you | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
would need excuses for that. Hearts and minds do change. One of the | :16:24. | :16:31. | |
things that was the hardest of the truffle -- the Troubles was just | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
too quickly the suspicion would dissipate, how vicious it had | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
become, how long it would last. Our has respond differently. Far from | :16:40. | :16:47. | |
being emotional about politics, people are cynical. We do sometimes | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
despair of the cliches of the ministers, but it is not there. I | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
believe Sammy Wilson, Alan Foster, Alex Attwood and Stephen Farry, | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
most of them an essentially decent people and those among them who | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
drove the conflict and survived to make politics still must know in | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
their hearts and minds that the world of today is unlike anything | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
be conceived of at the start. The political violence was initiated | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
during the Cold War and for some, even explained by it. Ian Paisley | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
did believe the Catholic church was behind the IRA. That Colonel | :17:21. | :17:28. | |
Gaddafi aren't the IRA and that he hoped Alan make the European Cuba. | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
South Africa armed loyalists in defence of apartheid. That was in | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
the days when again and could go to jail for having sex. So much of | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
that old passion seems stupid. Even recently revealed principles are | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
shaken, like the idea that we're all better off with house prices | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
still going up and up, which makes me wonder how many of their ideas | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
that have currency now will see mad within a generation. Hearts and | :17:55. | :18:02. | |
minds to change, and demonstrably, in the lifetime of this programme. | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
It was all new. We counted them in and we counted them out. We have | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
been through four re ministers, or should accept that is of State, | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
three Yes preservers, for leaders of the Ulster Unionists and the | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
SDLP, two DUP bosses, with only the Sinn Fein president sticking the | :18:21. | :18:30. | |
course since we came on air in 1986. Julia Faulds has been looking back | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
over a turbulent 16.5 years was on good evening it will come to the | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
new forum for debate in this crucial period in Northern | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
Ireland's Mr. It all started in 1996. Before long, the programme | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
was breaking new ground, recording the first studio interview on | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
British television of the Ulster Unionists and Sinn Fein. I told you | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
Sinn Fein is totally committed to this, and what could be more | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
unequivocal than that statement? but the IRA bombing of Canary Wharf | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
changed the agenda and the interview was never broadcast. | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
Whatever the big political story, hearts and minds was on it. They | :19:12. | :19:19. | |
Anything you in the last 20 minutes? You have it in your and. | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
have the feeling that comes in life, I am dying to leave, but I hate to | :19:27. | :19:36. | |
go. Do you feel like Nelson Mandela? Will, I feel like John | :19:36. | :19:46. | |
:19:46. | :19:47. | ||
Hume, and I think he feels like David Trimble. What we have to do | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
is to produce sensible concrete proposals which can provide in the | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
words of the agreement a new beginning for policing in Northern | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
Ireland. He spent 18 months listening to these tableaux stories | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
of lives destroyed and the damage wrought, and do you accept that you | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
have some attached yourselves? You talk about the need, of having a | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
need to heal the wounds inflicted by the actions of republicans, and | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
part of that involves saying sorry, and that it was wrong. I was a | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
member of the IRA. Do you expect me to stand up and say that I was | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
wrong to join, to support it? We any victims would expect you to say | :20:31. | :20:38. | |
that. Yes, but I am not going to do that. I will say that there were | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
things that at the IRA done, which were wrong. At the heart of the | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
programme have been interviews, striving to shed light. We should | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
be receiving more or, out of the kitty of Europe than we have | :20:54. | :21:01. | |
received an than we have paid in. would ask you not to tap the table, | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
it interferes with our understanding of what you are | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
saying. You're not accusing the Secretary of State and Tony Blair, | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
of Bertie Aherne and others of being anti- Sinn Fein? I am quite | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
able to speak for myself. People are not interested, Mr Thomson, in | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
what you think. If I have the courage to come in and be | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
questioned by you, I'd you put things to me, you should be big | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
enough to answer my questions. not care a damn what you think. I | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
am not speaking to you. I am speaking to the people watching the | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
programme. You said I am giving you an accurate information, I am not. | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
I want to have the right to answer questions rather than your you all | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
the time. You're distorting the situation, Mr Thomson, entirely, | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
and let me say, do not interrupt! That is Sinn Fein saying that. | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
There is no point shouting at me. I will certainly look forward to your | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
answer. For thank you. It would be a good idea before you ask you | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
thought question I if I was allowed to answer the first one. Let them | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
go and boil their heads. What you said, actually, can use say it | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
again? If he stop interrupting and let me speak... I said that I am | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
not a lawyer and I do not understand the precise nature of | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
the legal challenge. I am asking you to take a position. You're | :22:37. | :22:44. | |
actually interrupting me. several world-renowned figures have | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
agreed to be interviewed. Whose version do you believe? I have been | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
nine months out of office and diameter practice with these | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
interviews. I'll get to that, thanks. Along the way we have found | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
it interesting facts about politicians'. There must have been | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
something psychological, someone large and warm and friendly in my | :23:11. | :23:18. | |
past, I cannot remember. I probably have a couple of hundred sure it's, | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
and 400 ties. And it means that you do not have to do the washing for | :23:23. | :23:30. | |
long periods of time. In 1986 I had shingles. I was advised by the | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
doctor to give up swimming and to try something like bird-watching. | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
Which I have found, much to my surprise, I did take it up, I go | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
with my binoculars and a watch pots, and I have been totally addicted. I | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
loved bird-watching. I was a working-class cool that left school | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
with no qualifications, I return to education, eventually came to | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
Queen's College, achieved first class honours. We have heard about | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
the images stuck in the minds of politicians. Will wanted a bit of | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
the Berlin Wall, you would have thought it was moon rock, the way | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
that we felt. Hearts and minds has given a platform to a range of | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
different opinions. Through its if you ask me slot. Does opinions have | :24:20. | :24:28. | |
been brought to life by the inimitable cartoons of Ian Knox. | :24:28. | :24:35. | |
is also famine or a feast. You get a better idea if you have invested | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
too much Labour in it to stop it. You cannot put it aside for | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
tomorrow. Something else is bound to happen. The unique selling point | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
of the programme has always been the sideways look it has taken at | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
politics. We have invited Mr Paul Summers, a popular graphologist to | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
tell us a little bit about them. Affirmation of the letters is quite | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
small but there is a long T-bar formation on the world, Tim, which | :25:04. | :25:11. | |
speaks of someone who will bide their time. I don't quite know what | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
it is but they are hiding something. In their background, there is | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
something hidden. I hiding something, a mature and scared of | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
enlargement, step forward, Martin McGuinness. Gordon Brown has taken | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
to telephoning voters who have been writing to him. Just imagine that | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
happening here. You're halfway through EastEnders, when the | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
telephone rings and it is Peter Robinson or Martin McGuinness on | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
the line. It is a terrifying thought. Peter Robinson year, I | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
have got more than 900 eyes, you know! What would you say to him? | :25:48. | :25:56. | |
Hello, Peter. I would probably just hang up, actually! The politicians | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
really want to know what voters think, maybe bringing them direct | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
is probably not such a good idea. Hello? We are busy at the moment. | :26:07. | :26:15. | |
Hang on a minute. Sorry, it is Gordon Brown. I will have to go. | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
What am I going to do about this image problem? Hearts and minds | :26:20. | :26:30. | |
:26:30. | :26:37. | ||
indulged in a spot of innocent leg- Several Assembly Members have been | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
approached to feature in the calendar. Some have already agreed | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
in principle. One was first approached I said, no way. I had to | :26:47. | :26:56. | |
slim down. I am glad now that the secret is out. We propose to take | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
some discreet naked shots of some of the Emilys. And I said, why not? | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
Some of my party colleagues have been over-exposed in the media | :27:05. | :27:12. | |
already but this would give them a bit of interest. And we cannot | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
forget the taxi driver who was once even promoted. Are you Daniel | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
O'Donnell's long-lost brother? is not an issue that will come | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
before the Ulster Unionist Council. Are you the sexiest politician in | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
Northern Ireland? I am not going to answer that question, because I | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
think it would be difficult for me to answer that question without | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
appearing immodest. Did he take his speech with him or did he leave | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
your copy? People think that the key role of the SDLP has been in | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
mediating, but we have been at the case of what we stand for and what | :27:51. | :27:59. | |
we want to see. So, Marton, where do you get that horrible shock? | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
Nelson Mandela was sitting in this year, would you be daring to ask | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
him the date of question you asked me at the beginning? I think not. | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
That shows the double-standards applied by many journalists. | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
course, to make a programme like this requires a team of people, | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
some of whom have moved on, most of whom you do not see on camera, in | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
producer -- in particular, the producer, Marie Kelly, the power | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
behind the throne. Tonight, we wish her well as the lights come down | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
for the last time on hearts and minds. Judith, on the good old bad | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
old days. It is been my privilege to sit in the seat for many years | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
as momentous events have unfolded. I hope that you feel that we have | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
cast some light along the way. You have had your lot, thank you for | :28:54. | :29:04. | |
:29:04. | :29:08. | ||
watching, and goodbye. I have worked it out, you have done 3982 | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
interviews with politicians. Forget Kenneth Branagh, you deserve a | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
knighthood. I am only slagging. Martin McGuinness would get a | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
knighthood, before he would! I went to the doctor and said, I feel like | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
a pair of curtains, and he said, tough, I am on strike. It is like | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
Wayne Rooney going on strike over the price of shampoo. She did not | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
think you would see if they win the deputy chief does the ball speaks | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
better Iris and Gerry Adams, mind you, Jim Allison speaks better | :29:42. | :29:47. |