19/10/2011 Northern Ireland Question Time

Hello and welcome to the programme. Paramilitaries, the public purse

and the past, some of the themes up for discussion in Parliament. The

Secretary of State answers the questions. We will hear about that

shorter but now, our political correspondent joins me. It has been

entertaining up at Hillsborough Castle. The President was therefore

a bit of a bash. That's right, she had some -- she had a dinner at the

castle, and she prepares to leave office, and a new election. So Owen

Paterson, he's going to be busy. First up, a question from a former

Northern Ireland Office minister on the issue of paramilitary threat

and threat from dissidents and what discussions he has had over that

issue. And, very often, it is not just the Secretary of State but his

Minister of State as well who is up to discuss things. We will have to

wait and see whether he will make an appearance but the former

Secretary of State Paul Murphy had a key role in the Good Friday

Agreement along with Mo Mowlam and he has the second question, wanting

to know about what Owen Paterson is doing in terms of publishing his

own conclusions about dealing with the past. Given the Northern

Ireland Office has been stripped bare by devolution, dealing with

the past is a big issue for Owen Paterson and how he will address

the issue of victims' rights, the truth Commission. And Shaun

Woodward is no more as Shadow Secretary of State. A very familiar

face. That's right. There was a reshuffle earlier this month, and

the Shadow Secretary of State was replaced by a Vernon Coaker. Shaun

Woodward told my BBC colleagues that he had asked to stand down

after the election, he had told Ed Miliband that he wanted to go and

focus on his constituency and that has happened. We can get a bit more

information on Vernon Coaker because we will go to Westminster

and our correspondent is there in the lovely Gothic interior of the

House of Commons. Vernon Coaker, tell us about him. He has been a

Labour MP since 1997. He was a whip in the House of Commons with

responsibility for Northern Ireland, so a lot of MPs know him, people

from the DUP, SDLP, but he doesn't know too many people within Sinn

Fein, but he is a familiar face in the House of Commons. He was

Schools Minister during the last Labour administration, a minister

in the Home Office, said he has governmental experience so when it

comes to the nuts and bolts of Government departments and how

things work, he has an idea. When it comes to Northern Ireland

affairs, he is on a pretty steep learning curve, I will suggest.

will be. When you look at the agenda and you think of things like

corporation tax, and all kinds of things, a great remit of things he

will have to get his things around -- head around, he knows the

personalities but he has to get his head around the policies. He said

he wanted some time to read into the situation but he hasn't had

much time because here we are today with the first Northern Ireland

questions and he has got to get his head around all of these different

subjects. Why did Shaun Woodward go? Do we know? I spoke to him last

week and there were rumours as to whether he was shoved or pushed or

he went voluntarily. He told me he had been Secretary of State in

Northern Ireland, he had served there, then he became Shadow

Secretary of State when Labour went into opposition. He said he told Ed

Miliband that he wanted to change. He said he wanted to go some time

ago and when he knew, he sensed a reshuffle was coming in the autumn,

he then said to Ed Miliband a number of days ago that he didn't

want to be considered for the Shadow Cabinet. He told them he

wanted to leave the Shadow cabinet and therefore Ed Miliband has

decided to put Vernon Coaker in place. In Prime Minister's

questions which follows this, there is often needle between Mrs Cameron

and Miliband, and that was the same between Shaun Woodward and Vernon

Coaker. It was quite personal, wasn't it? I think they will be

very different characters. Vernon Coaker, if you talk to people in

the House of Commons, they say he is very amiable and he has made it

clear to me, he said he will support the Government when he

feels it is necessary to support the Government, but he will

criticise the Government when pupils it is necessary and although

this is his first Northern Ireland questions, he appeared in the

Commons last week when Owen Paterson made his statement about

the pact and Lucan murder and he did criticise the Government

because he said they should be holding an inquiry. Stephen, thank

you. Let's move from the Gothic interior from the lobby into the

House of Commons itself where the questions have just started. We

have seen Owen Paterson and asked - - Mr Squire on the bench, and now

he's been asked questions from one of the backbenchers. There is

Alasdair McDonnell. Let's go live to the House of, this.

-- to the House of Commons. entirely endorse his comments. It

is quite extraordinary when you think that city is coming together,

united behind the City of Culture, which is coming along soon, this

tiny number of people could do such a crazily reckless thing. I think

the demonstration of people coming out onto the street it really shows

the support there is full settlement and the PSNI, and

battles and Dolls this morning when I had the conversation with Mr

David Ford. Does my honourable friend agree the recent unanimous

support for the police service in Northern Ireland to deal with the

dissident threat from all sides of the Northern Ireland Assembly sends

a clear message these organisations will not succeed? I am grateful to

my honourable friend for that question and it follows on from

what I have said that he is right to draw attention to the fact we

have a police service which is wholly accountable to a

democratically elected Justice Minister and a democratically

elected Policing Board on which all parties sit. Mr Patrick Mercer. Not

here. Could the Secretary of State tell me whether the situation, the

security situation, his was alternative might better a Europe -

- than it was a year ago? grateful for that quest from -- I

am grateful. We have put in more resources back 10th by the

Executive. In discussions with the Pearson night, we are determined to

bear down on these groups that are dangerous and we are not complacent

about them. To answer directly her question, we have brought the

increase that we saw when we came in, we have slowed that down. None

of us should underestimate the danger the small number of people

represent to not just the police but to people going about their

everyday business. In terms of combating the dissident terrorist

threat, and I endorse what he has said earlier already to the House

in terms of the lack of support for these groups in Northern Ireland,

can visited troops date indicate what he is doing to strike up

social funding of these groups in terms of the raising of finances,

particularly through illicit fuel laundering and other sources of Ron

-- revenue? Can you indicate what is happening to tackle that? Gives

me an opportunity to make clear to the House the remarkable success

the PSNI have pulled off stopping fuel laundering and also there have

been some significant arrests of illegal cigarettes. I think if that

we should remember the extraordinary level of co-operation

we have between the PSNI and Garda working bedsides of the border. --

working both sides. As well as financing and helping the dissident

terrorists he will know that one of the things that dissident terrorist

thrive on is the hope they are dictating the Government's agenda.

On that point, they have taken great comfort and solace from the

fact the Ministry of Defence decided not to allow a homecoming

parade for the Royal Irish and the Irish Guards in Belfast. Can I ask

the Secretary of State to continue his efforts to speak to the

Ministry of Defence about that issue which has gone down very

badly in all quarters in Northern Ireland, especially when such Brits

have been allowed elsewhere throughout the province. -- when

such parades. I can clarify have regular discussions with the

Ministry of Defence. I did actually go to Balmoral Showground with the

First Minister. That was when the Royal Irish Regiment and the Irish

Guards put on a wonderful demonstration and were warmly

welcomed by large numbers of people. And that was agreed by the Ministry

of Defence with the city council. Recently, there have been two bombs

found in South -- South Belfast, Bradbury plays and a pipe bomb left

on the windowsill of a home in additions to the other bombs and

outrage is the Secretary of State will be aware of. This is totally

unacceptable because people have a right to live without fear and

intimidation and it is a welcome these attacks have been widely

condemned. A small number of people seem to be determined to turn the

clock back but can the Secretary of State tell us what is the latest

assessment that he and the Northern Ireland Executive have made about

the dissident's capabilities and what steps they have taken to

combat those activities? I would like to welcome the honourable

member to his first Northern Ireland questions. As I said in a

statement last week, I think Northern Ireland will not progress

to where it has without the extremely close co-operation of the

main political parties, not just in the UK but in Dublin and Washington

and I very much look forward to working with him and I wish him

well in his difficult role. As he knows, we were extremely closely

with the Justice Minister David Ford and as I have said we work

closely with the authorities in Dublin. Our assessment is that

these groups are still dangers. He has cited a number of incidents

which are absolutely outrageous, they are wholly exceptional because

the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want to grab this

opportunity and move Northern Ireland on. We will guarantee to

work extremely closely with the PSNI, Justice Minister and with the

Garda in Dublin. I would like to thank the Secretary of State for

his kind words and I will certainly try to work with him and others for

the good of the people of Northern Ireland. Can I ask the Secretary of

State to tell us what plans he has to use his role working with

Northern Ireland ministerial colleagues to promote Londonderry

and Derry as the UK's City of Culture 2013 both nationally and

internationally? Isn't the case as my honourable friend said this will

be one very powerful way of combating any dissident threat by

offering a positive image of what the City and the whole of Northern

Ireland can offer in terms of culture and be a true reflection of

the people of Northern Ireland in stark contrast to those who said

recently caused outrage -- who so recently caused -- caused outrage?

I totally endorse that question. I was at the launch of the City of

Culture with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. The

young people put on a film and the soundtrack which wowed the judges.

That was the thing that really swung it. But was a complete

celebration of everything good that is going on in that city as was the

opening of the bridge and this tiny number of crazy people putting

bombs outside offices are not representative and they will not

succeed. We will now move on with rather greater dispatch, I hope.

Number two, Mr Speaker. honourable friend the Minister of

State and I have been meeting with a range of political parties and

victims' groups to discuss the issue of dealing with the past. So

far, we have not found consensus. What the Government has a role to

play, the way forward must come from within Northern Ireland.

Secretary of State is right that solutions must come within Northern

Ireland but he will realise there is widespread opposition to his

proposal for a semi- inquiry into the pad for Lucan case and I wonder

if he understands that by going ahead with this proposal, �1.5

million is likely to be wasted and will he now rethink it? I am

grateful for my honourable friend's question and as I paid tribute last

week in the statement, I am sorry that we disagree on this. He

committed to a public inquiry but he then passed the inquiries Act

and we know that was the stumbling block and week -- and we inherited

an impasse. By accepting the conclusion of the Stevens inquiry,

possibly the largest police inquiry in history, by having the family in

Downing Street for an apology, we will concentrate on what is

important which I raised with the family which is to get to the truth

as fast as possible. That is why we have gone down this road,

appointing a well respected international lawyer, giving him

powers to get to the truth by December next year. Could I thank

the Secretary of State for his answer, but could I also say that

given the political sensitivity surrounding legacy issues and in

view of the fact the greatest legacy issue in Northern Ireland is

that about the murder of Pat, Wilkie reflect on the comments by

the Minister for Foreign Affairs in Dublin and by the members of the

family and realise this could undermine the very architecture of

the Good Friday Agreement? Will he redress the situation and ensure

there is an end to end up -- an independent inquiry? I'm afraid I

simply don't agree. We inherited an impasse. We have come up with

solutions and I have talked to senior members of the Irish

Government, and on this issue we will disagree with them. We will

not let this one issue undermine the extraordinary good relations we

have with the Republic, nor will we let it undermines the settlement,

and if she had been at Hillsborough last night and seeing people from

right across the Community welcoming the President, should

have seen just how far Northern Ireland has moved on and we are

determined to keep that going. legacy issue that has never been

addressed is the role played by elements of the Republic of

Ireland's financing of the IRA. Does the Secretary of State accept

the family is in Birmingham, Warrington, London and Aldershot

and elsewhere deserve to see Enda Kenny a step up to the mark,

acknowledge the failings of the southern Government and formally

apologise for those killings? grateful for that question. That

question is outside my remit. If he has questions which you would like

to address to the Government of the Republic, he should write to them

directly. Number four, please, on Mr Speaker. In September, the

Government set up the steps we are taking on the West Lothian question.

We will continue to have regular discussions with the Deputy Prime

Minister and his office. Minister will know the West Lothian

question is known as the West Belfast question. Does the Minister

agree that it is important that the commission come to a conclusion

relatively quickly in order for steps to be taken to resolve this

tricky constitutional issue before the next election? Yes, I do

actually believe, as does the Government, that we do need this

commission. I think we will hear quite sure to the terms of

reference of this commission when it is set up and it should conclude

quite quickly thereafter, but, no doubt, the honourable lady, coup

has campaigned assiduously, will wish to give them the benefit of

her view. Does the Minister of State agree that the creation of a

two Tear Parliament here would be against the interests of a United

Kingdom and the interests of Unionism in all of the United

Kingdom? And does he further agree that if he were to proceed along

the way of the West Lothian question, he would have to stand at

that dispatch box and a queue for double-jobbing, and is that not

against the interests -- interest of his Government? He knows our

views on double-jobbing when it comes to Northern Ireland and he

will know my views that everybody in this place is equal and that is

quite right. I take a rather more positive view than the honourable

gentleman. The governments in Edinburgh, Cardiff, and the

Executive in Northern Ireland are up and running and we need to see

how parliamentary business, this is what we were that bad, the business

of this House, how that can be done better to reflect a post devolution

United Kingdom which should reinforce the strength of the union

which is something I and he Following discussions a good

consultation paper was set out in August proposing the transfer of

the regulation for Northern Ireland credit unions to the FSA on 31st

March 2012. There are far too many private

conversations taking place on the chamber. I would have thought

everybody would want to hear Mr Mark Durkan.

Can affect the Minister for that reply. Tomorrow is international

Credit Union day. Credit unions have been waiting for this change

for a long time so they can offer a greater range of services to their

members. Will the Minister assure us his work with Treasury ministers

will mean the primary legislation will be adequate, the secondary

legislation will follow past, and the transition arrangements will

have a strong regional presence so that credit unions can work with

the new regulators to make a success of the new powers?

I congratulate the honourable gentleman for many years

championing the cause of credit unions and that of his predecessor

as well. 177 credit unions in Northern Ireland. Part of a big

society Agenda, we think they're great institutions, we were meant

to expand. He will agree what is important during this change is

that those people with their money in these credit unions are probably

-- protected and he will no doubt welcome the move to come under the

FSA to protect them. The Right Honourable Gentleman will

surely remember that a well-crafted and consensual labour bill to

address precisely this issue was presented to the house in the last

Parliament and Crawley garrotted during the wash up. Does he regret

the actions of his party? I don't believe the Labour Party

got everything wrong, just most I have had regular discussions with

my Right Honourable Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer who

came to Northern Ireland in June and had first and from local

businesses the importance of this issue and became personally

involved in resolving it. As a result he announced a cut in air

passenger duty next month for all Derek long-haul flights from

airport in Northern Ireland. -- direct.

Can I welcome yesterday's announcement and just say how

encouraging it is to other parts of the UK who think this particular

tax is unfair. Cadet ask the Minister to keep the house updated

over the progress of this cut in tax so we may learn something and

get a change in other parts of the UK. He has asked me to stray into

areas which are not my possibility but I would like to pay tribute to

him and his friends on the knowledge that -- Northern Ireland

affairs committee who made a convincing case for this. I would

like to become record this was a team effort. A key person was the

Chancellor who really did see the need for this following his visit

to hand it gave it a personal interest and pushed it through.

Can I thank the Secretary of State and the Chancellor of Exchequer for

taking a very swift and timely action with regards to air

passenger duty in Northern Ireland. Can ask the Secretary of State when

he will consider giving the power to set the levels of corporation

tax to the Northern Ireland Assembly?

I would like to thank him for leading the committee and getting a

report through. I announced two weeks ago there would be a

ministerial working group set up chaired by my Honourable Friend the

Exchequer, secretary, and that hopes to meet in early November.

Could ask the Secretary of State if he is in any discussions with

members of the Northern Ireland Executive about the abolish it of

other taxes in Northern Ireland? -- abolition.

I am sure the Honourable Gentleman meant to mention that. I have

discussed air passenger duty with the Executive, and I have discussed

corporation tax. And have not discussed any other taxes.

With respect to the devolution of our passenger duty will the

Secretary of State be pressing for a swift timetable to take that

forward and look at other double- digit taxation caused by people who

have to travel three G B airport? - - travel through airports in Great

Britain. The economic secretary put out a statement yesterday

confirming that from the 1st November the long haul rate will be

reduced and I hope to see that followed three swiftly by the

Treasury who are working closely with Executive ministers are so

that this particular issue can be It is clear from the discussions I

have had with the political parties in Northern Ireland they want

greater transparency over donations and loans. We will legislate to

deliver us as soon as we can. He will appreciate that the

continuing of the special measures required in Northern Ireland, can

he exactly when he proposes to legislate on this issue at way Sinn

Fein will no longer get their special money?

I have extended the current arrangements for looked at least

until 2013 and hope to return to the house before them. On the

subject of Sinn Fein I would point out to him Sinn Fein are subject to

the same requirement of all other parties, donations over 7,500 badge

must be reported to the electoral committee but we want to move to a

period of full transparency but the time has not yet right.

The house must come to order. The next questioner is a former

Northern Ireland minister, I expect to you will want to hear.

I am in regular contact with Executive ministers and I fully

understand the importance of the aviation ministry to Northern

Ireland, one of whom is Bombardier airspace I will be saying shortly.

Can I welcome the Government's decision to reduce air passenger

duty on long-haul flights? This creates a new anomaly whereby if

you pay tax on a return flight from Belfast to New York you will pay

less tax than you would a reflect - - return flight to Manchester.

Given the importance of regional routes to the Northern Ireland's

economy would depress the Chancellor for a lower rate of duty

on flights between Belfast and regional airports in the UK?

We have been pressing the Chancellor on quite a lot of things

recently and I am not sure we would depress her much more. As the Right

Honourable Gentleman knows Northern Ireland shares a land border and

the flight from Dublin were cheaper, that was the problem. We are

grateful for the Treasury to reckoning -- recognising the

anomaly and any other airlines listening in may well wish to take

advantage because we want to grow air traffic to Northern Ireland as

part of rebalancing the economy. We all agree with the recent

announcement regarding the continental airline transatlantic

route but will the Minister make himself available so that if other

routes become possibilities from all three airports in Northern

Ireland on a transatlantic scene, they would be able to assist him

more progress on those issues? Of course we will. The key is the

transfer of a P D T the Executive in terms of this transatlantic

route. -- airport passenger duty. The Honourable Gentleman may wish

to make his representations to them, but we are investing in growing air

routes to Northern Ireland, not least in growing more routes for

from Great Britain into Belfast or any other airports, we would more

growth. Tackling youth unemployment is a

key priority for the UK government and Northern Ireland ministers. The

minister for welfare reform has visited Northern Ireland on two

occasions and met with the social development and employment and

learning ministers to discuss these very matters.

What additional support to is the Secretary of State putting in place

to reduce youth unemployment so that young people have a positive

future in Northern Ireland? The Honourable Gentleman has a long

track record in youth issues. We are very concerned about it. This

was a problem for the previous government of which he was not a

member in all fairness and continues to be a problem. The

Executive are taking the number of issues to do with apprenticeships

and learning issues foie de for, and we will continue to support

them in every way. It is critical for I was said Executive ministers

engaged on the whole passage -- package of welfare reform being

proposed. Does my Honourable Friend agree the

best way to increase youth employment in Northern Ireland is

to invest in the British ships and the University technical schools

that is happening elsewhere in the you knighted Kingdom? --

apprenticeships in the United Kingdom. In Northern Ireland there

is youth unemployment as the rest of the GP. -- GB. Order, and cannot

hear the answer. The matters, and mostly in hands of

ministers of the Executive at Stormont, and I do urge all of them

to engage with Lord Freud and his ministerial colleagues in this

whole passage of welfare reform that will be important for Northern

Ireland's future prosperity. Will the Minister join with me in

welcoming the decision by the Northern Ireland Executive to cap

tuition fees at just over �3,000 and the Beast this provides two

young people in Northern Ireland to seek to graduate from university.

These are matters for the Executive. I would point out as he is well

aware that that money will have to be found from the existing budget

of the Executive. Questions to the Prime Minister. Mr Stephen Hepburn.

We will be going live to Prime Minister's Questions in a moment.

The speaker being quite proactive today, rattling them along.

Anything Pat -- catch your fancy, air passenger duty, the Finucane

issue. That issue came back to bite them,

she thought she was getting the inquiry that had been promised and

instead promised a review by a leading QC. We have heard Owen

Paterson say he would allow this issue to underline the good

relationship he had had with the British and Irish governments

between the Government's, the President was in Hillsborough last

night and although the Irish government were unhappy they were

pursued and hope that wouldn't poisoned relationships.

They will probably get away with it for the time being although they

battle on. The West Lothian question also known as the West

Belfast question. Basically because we can decide English questions

because we are represented in London but they can't decide for us

and they think the English people think this is unfair. The MP there

has been a campaign on this issue and was asking about plans for a

commission to be set up and there seems to be progress being made.

Patricia the issue is appointing case where devolution has opened up

opportunities that it has caused resentment in England were English

people are paying their tax money here for subsidised and their

children coming here will pay more for university are locals so a

long-running issue. Interesting to see what the commission comes up

with. For we saw Mr Patterson, but what

did you make of Vernon Coker, nervy, new to the task, the shadow

Secretary of State. Reading quite a lot of his

questions. Didn't have the panache of Shaun Woodward he used to jump

up but had the inside information of having been secretary of state