07/07/2017 Politics Europe

Hello and welcome to politics Europe. The French President

Emmanuel Macron says Europe has lost its way and promises to hold

democratic conventions across the EU to discuss reform. The EU strikes at

outlying free-trade deal with Japan but with much of the details still

to be hammered out. MEPs discuss how to plug the EU funding gap after

Brexit. We report from Strasbourg. And just what was getting the

commission president John Hood yorker so hot under the collar? I

will never, I will never again attempt a meeting of this kind. Some

may wonder if that is a promise or a threat and it is all become in the

next 30 minutes and with me, joined by two MEPs, the Conservative Sajjad

Karim and for Labour. Welcome. First of all, this is the round-up of the

latest EU news in just 60 seconds. I'm under the new French President

gave a speech saying the European Union had lost its way in the past

ten years. The solution is a new generation of leaders like him,

presumably. EU and Japan reached every work agreement on a free-trade

agreement, paving the way for motor race on goods by Japanese car than

farming product. It's the last leg for the European Parliament is all a

sports day and lessons outside, MEPs voted to approve a 1 million euros

aid package for Moldova, defeated a bid to give Northern Ireland special

status within the EU following Brexit, and just ask whether they

should be based in a single city and stopped their monthly shuttle from

Strasbourg and back. It also got a ticking off from the President

Juncker after a few dozen MEPs turned up to hear him speak. You are

ridiculous. He also said he'd never again attend a meeting of the kind.

MEPs were unsure if it was a threat or a promise. How significant is the

trade agreement with Japan question mark isn't it just symbolic? Not at

all, there are several factors around the trade deal and one is how

long it's taken, which is a lesson to all of us, and every still more

to do. How long have taken? Four years to get this far and there are

still further processes to go through, the it's something we need

to keep a steady eye on. It also, it is between these two enormous kind

of economic bases and you know, where you have Japanese

manufacturers or other companies, you know, need to keep an eye on

this because what will happen to our trade with Japan? We will come to it

in a moment but I mean is a symbolic in terms of PR and head of the G20

because there's still so much to negotiate. I mean they haven't

actually tied the deal have they? And this was arrived at the moment

from where it would seem that there is no pulling back now. Right. Is

another of tidying up exercise is still to do. What I found

interesting about this was that the Japanese stated that this was a deal

done between them and the 28 members of the European Union. So

including... Including the United Kingdom which I believe sends a

strong signal that the United Kingdom remains open for business

and that we welcome this deal and we are in a position to do similar

deals ourselves, post- Brexit. And do you agree with that? Isn't this

than an example of what could be achieved, albeit in a shorter space

of time if the government gets its way, a free-trade deal between the

UK and the EU? Well, we absolutely have to land deal between us and the

EU. They have managed to with Japan. Over four years. We have less than

two years left in terms of the -- sorting out our exit which become

significant in terms of thought we'd do in transition. But also to have

an equality of the scale of the economy is when you are looking at

the EU and Japan. We are in a different position thought of in the

future if we are looking at just the UK to bring trade. Isn't that the

problem? Twice as long as the amount of time that Theresa May and Davis

Davis have at their disposal to secure trade deal between the EU? I

think the challenges are huge and you shouldn't underestimate it. If

it impossible to achieve? The other thing to bear in mind is it doesn't

cover services. Any have not cover services as well. The challenge is a

far greater than the Japanese challenge and therefore we really

are going to have to concentrate our minds in a very short space of time

to deliver this. Is it realistic? And if the actually concentrate our

minds to the real issues, we are not going to get this timeline. And the

real issues that aggression before trade and the economy or the other

way around? The economy must come first. Immigration must be a

secondary issue. If we do with the other way around I'm afraid our

economy and this whole issue of meeting the deadlines is going to

unravel very quickly indeed. But talk about Juncker, it was quite an

outpost, he was cross, not many MEPs turned up to hear him address the

parliament. Was it right to criticise you guys? No, I don't. He

had a moment, that happens, we all have our moments every now and then.

Reality is like Westminster, if people aren't in the chamber, that's

because they are working elsewhere in the building. I was in working

groups that morning, I have three back-to-back working groups on the

different pieces of legislation we are working on. So the reality is

very different from the one he was talking about here. We have Monday -

Thursday as with Westminster to get a lot of work done and you

concentrate on effective work rather than sitting in chambers. Do you

agree he overstepped the mark would do you feel as president of the

commission he was due a bit of respect from elected representatives

like yourself to at least come and hear him speak? I think this works

both ways. There has been a number of occasions where he should have

actually been present in the chamber himself and he wasn't. Right. So it

works both ways and if we are willing to accept he cannot always

be there, he needs to be the same for us. He got a real telling off

though from the head of the parliament. I would expect nothing

less! Right. We will end up there. And he has apologised since. True,

Mr Juncker? Yes. Now what will the EU look like after Brexit? It has

been the topic of discussion amongst leaders and this week President

Macron waded into the debate. On Monday he said that the European

Union had to be revived by a new generation of leaders. And he

announced that France and Germany would launch a graphic conventions

by the end of 2017, with the aim of re- founding Europe. He insisted

each member state would be free to sign-on or not. But there is no

longer time for quick fixes. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has

signalled her support for a change in Europe, one day after the Briton

negotiations began, she told the Federation of German industry she

was open to a joint EU finance minister. It only if the framework

conditions are right. And she said she would discuss the eurozone by

the budget, as long as it is clear that this will truly strengthen

structures and do meaningful things. The debate follows on from Mr

Juncker 's white paper outlining five scenarios the future of the EU,

it was discussed at the Rome summit in March. That ranged from the EU

re- focusing solely on the Common Market to foster integration between

nations and admit all that and the Brexit negotiations, the UK will

have to decide if it is still to join an EU wide battle group which

Britain has committed forces to join from 2019. After the UK is due to

leave the EU. Well, we've been joined by party. What is Macron's

grand plan big Europe? What are these democratic conventions look

like? Of course there are a lot of expectations on his shoulders right

now, this was a manifesto promise appears to hold democratic

conventions of property have still extended across the EU and I think

this is the basis on which he constructed his own campaign when he

was running for president here and the expectation is you can build a

bottom-up sort of democracy and the people themselves can shape the

priorities of the French presidency or the European Union going forward.

If a talking shop? Is it a way of being seen to be doing something

without any real substance? I think it is one criticism of it but what

he hopes to achieve with these democratic conventions is to focus

minds in Europe but more soundly and given Mr Juncker's white paper

earlier this year when he suggested there were different methods the EU

can pursue coming forward for reform, one of which was do less but

more effectively, I think Macron's convention tends to stick to that,

to ask the people what they want them to focus on. What about the new

generation of leaders. He's new, but who else? Have the Irish president

who is now the youngest in the EU, and I think we have, what he is

speaking about more generally rather than just humouring his neighbours

is the idea of rejuvenating the EU project which has the mandate he

thinks he has. Do you think Macron will be successful in trying to

reshape Europe, liberating the member states once the UK leaves?

I'm not quite sure what liberating the member states looks like but in

terms of his attitude, it was interesting watching the French

campaign because he ran an unashamedly pro- European campaign.

Westminster is not perfect, but a Westminster is not perfect, but a

whole lot of institutions that are not perfect, but he ran up against a

sort of anti- European campaign from Marine Le Pen 8181 much better than

people thought he might do. So from that basis of looking than how he

can re-establish a kind of enthusiasm from Europe, I think is

his starting point and I think it is probably a good idea. How does he do

that though? Because as Clare was saying there was anti- European

sentiment within front as well, yes Emmanuel Macron did win

overwhelmingly, but if you look at what it can actually do, is he going

to bring and should he bring all the eurozone states even closer

together? Isn't that what he is planning, more integration? And will

it work? I admire his ambitions to what he is doing is going from a

platform of having fought the French elections were the galvanising force

was the fact that he had a far right extremist as a candidate against

him, and even then the turnout was not infused enough to be able to say

the French people felt enthused to come and back Macron on this. For

him than the say that he can take this on across Europe wide scale, I

believe it is really ambitious on his part. It doesn't sound like

Sajjad thinks it could work. Is further integration for European

countries within the EU the answer? If you take on board some of the

euroscepticism that does exist in France, it is still divided like

many other countries, but will it work? A lot of what is being talked

about will take a long time to deliver, quite possibly, after we

have left the European Union. So the big certain extent it is up to them.

Make the choice for EU 27, they will decide how the EU 27 work best

together. We are going to do watching from the outside. Right.

And looking at what Macron is trying to do, if we take the idea he is

trying to bring the eurozone countries together as they are

looking at ideas that will actually promote bad, is going to be harder

for the UK to negotiate its deal? I think first of all we have to

discuss the feasibility of the project and he accepts that this is

not something that will happen in the short or the near term. What is

the sort of timing he's pushing on? He suggests he understands the idea

of the eurozone budget, eurozone minister, duress and parliament will

require a lot of backing from Germany and obviously the smaller

states as well. Reticence on the German side is the idea that France

needs to get its own economy in shape before Germany is willing to

back it. The Macron has said he will take a Labour market reform or other

economic reforms domestically first and foremost before you went to

Germany with these ideas, and put them in force. So whether or not

this will form part of the negotiations I in the first thing to

consider is what Timeline is Macron and the eurozone imagine for these

reforms? And the direction of travel if it goes down that route and I

take your point he has a big enough job trying to reform France in terms

of Labour reforms, it will that be a good thing or a bad thing to you

think for the UK as its negotiating its exit? It's difficult to know

because of course this is not just a concern for the UK, it is a concern

for all of it has been present for many of the smaller member states in

the EU as well, the idea that the EU's final destination will be the

eurozone. And what matters then is if you're a small estate on the edge

without membership of the euro, do you still form part of the EU? Does

this is the direction that the EU looks like he is going to go down,

the UK will not be alone in watching from the outside, thinks all member

states will also be look and asking what will EU membership men in the

future, will have to join the euro? It's only a surprise the close

integration is in some ways what Macron wants, as you say,

unashamedly pro-EU, pro- European, do you think will make it difficult

for the UK, these negotiations? While Europe is trying to figure out

where it is going itself, that will affect the negotiations with us. One

of the criticisms we are currently getting is we don't know whether we

can negotiate, how stable is the British government? It applies the

other way as well with the vision for Europe. They don't know where

they are going. And with Emmanuel Macron, he is a man who has fought

one election in his lifetime, and that is to be president of France.

He is yet to face the hard realities of medical dynamics in France, let

alone European ones. What about the smaller members of the EU? Will

there be a complete two-tier Eurozone emerging? There is

resistance against that, as is noted in the five-point plan. I know that

isn't a direction a number of EU states want to take. The EU is a bit

like a tanker as we know. It does not turn around quickly. We are

having a quick and negotiation in terms of the exit. I hope the exit

takes longer if we are going to do it well. They are separate

conversations. I don't think they will have a significant impact. You

are talking about conventions over a couple of years or whatever, that

will not feed into a political process impacting on the

negotiations. The commitment to the EU battle group, how do you feel

about that? We are waiting for announcement from the UK on that. We

said we would provide the headquarters for that in the

immediate future. But what is important is certainly from a

bilateral defence point of view, we have commitments, including from

Emmanuel Macron in France that that should deepen. Whether we progress

with that to a European level remains to be seen. What do you

think? The butter groups have been in existence for ten years but have

never been used once. -- battle. Everything has had to have been done

on a natural level. Will it last in terms of our commitment to it?

Security and defence is one of those areas where there is a strong

interest in every regard that we work together. Nato and the EU are

working together more closely than they ever have done, in fact, and we

need to be part of that. My concern is we are taking ourselves out of

the leading role in it, we will be participants if we manage to get a

deal that includes security and defence at all, and the disadvantage

is we will become very much a second-class participant. Very

briefly, are you being embraced by your colleagues in the Parliament or

marginalised these days? Personally, everyone gets on steel. They have

played a productive path. -- still. And people don't just say yes when

you speak to them... You are implying they said yes immediately?

We had a huge role that we played in the Parliament. Thank you. We have

heard a lot about the financial obligations the UK may have when it

leaves the EU, but once they lose one of the biggest net contributors,

how may be remaining 27 countries balance the books? Big news, the

opening of a 360 degrees recreation of the hammer cycle. They were

receiving a briefing on the future size and shape of the EU's finances

for a seven year period from 2020, finances that will have a Brexit

shaped hole in them between ten and 12 billion euros every year. The

budget commissioner explains the EU is also taking on new tasks like

fighting terrorism almost so it needed more cash, what is called a

multi annual financial framework, the MAFF. It could mean changes to

how the budget operates. For example, could reach companies like

Germany be asked to pay more? -- richer. Could countries like

Bulgaria have to take out less? We need more from this country and

different countries and we have to stop with all of the special

conditions. Not only Britain, it was also Germany and also I think the

Netherlands. There is no reason to get special treatment. The

commission has mooted a European pollution tax on cars to raise money

as well as visitors coming to the EU. It has been seen as a power grab

by some. I think the budget should remain strongly linked with

nationstates and member states as cornerstones of the EU. I am not in

favour of any new revenues, any European taxes on any sources for

the budget. But when the all of us have to be decided, and what role

for the 751 MEPs? The 600 that will be left after the Brits are gone.

Parliament has a say. Of course, we don't decide how things will be, the

member states decide it. But if we don't like it, on the other hand...

They have to listen to us in a certain degree. A narrow window,

September, 2018, before the election, 2019, we have to have a

ready package by that time to be able to tell the European citizens

what we are going to do with the budget. Finally, a quick trip to the

new photo booth. One thing will disappear from the financial picture

altogether, thanks to Brexit, there will be no more UK rebate, so the

budget will look much simpler, and that gets the thumbs up around here.

A nice and cheesy smile. Allan Fleming. Any ideas how the EU should

plug the gap of some 10 billion euros a year? The negotiations go

on, the MFF, that is being talked about, a catchy title, it goes on

for seven years. We are in the middle of a current seven-year

process. Negotiations are beginning now, part of the talk recently. They

have a headache and that could be to the advantage of the UK, as they

will lose our money. That is where the divorce bill comes in. It is

also about what comes after Brexit and what we choose, how we will

contribute? We could contribute beyond Brexit. It will be a

complicated sum. Do you accept that? It could well be a situation like

that, and would you support it if the UK contributes to funds we want

to be part of during a transitional phase? They will have to accept one

thing, there will be some form of continued payments after the UK

leads the EU. A figure of... I cannot put any figure on it.

Negotiations are so wide at the moment. One thing is clear, the UK

will have to do that, and the EU will have to learn to live with far

less money than it had. That has been something it is bad at. It will

have to find new ways of raising money. You said the British people

would have to accept continued payments, what for? It depends. Some

payments would be for ongoing programmes we take part in. Like

what? Many educational programmes. Research development and so on? Yes.

There will be substantial sums that will need to be paid for access to

the single market. How much would you be prepared to pay? That is part

of the negotiations, as I said. I cannot put a figure on it. I do know

it is the largest export market, and without it, our economy is going to

suffer greatly. That sounds like we won't be leaving in March, 2019, in

a complete and comprehensive way, if we are still paying fines for joint

EU- UK initiatives. There are many factors. We will simply, as things

stand, not be ready to leave the single market in 2019. We only just

started the negotiations on one element of the divorce, we are one

year after the referendum and three months from Article 50. It would be

astonishing if any government could achieve that complicated deal. So,

yes, we will continue paying. We agreed to a multi annual financial

framework going through to 2020, with the bills coming after that,

and then there is the element of needing to stay within the single

market. That may disappoint people in the Conservative Party, not

least, and other people as well, if the UK is not out by March, 2019,

completely. Revenue streams. In that film, one of the contributors said I

don't want new taxes, new revenue streams, will that be unpopular with

the Parliament? I think there is real resistance to that sort of move

where the European Union can directly start to impose taxation.

However, this is also a part of the ongoing debate in Europe today, what

is the future of Europe going to be? This, actually, today, has once

again become an active question. Don't forget the financial tax back

on the table. As you said, we have a long and hot summer ahead of us.

Thank you for being our guests today. That is it for now with

regards to European politics. Bye bye.

After a warm, muggy night, Sunday should bring us some more

Not dry everywhere, though, some rain in the forecast too.

During Saturday, there were scenes a bit like this.

A lot of sunshine around, this is Ceredigion, in Wales.