01/02/2012 Politics Scotland

Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Stripped of his

knighthood, but has Mr Fred Goodwin been victimised?

A new push to combat youth employment, but the opposition ask

why cash for colleges is being cut. And here at Westminster, after the

Fred Goodwin affair, MPs are turning their attention to the

Good afternoon. The decision to strip Fred Goodwin of his

knighthood has sent shockwaves through the banking community.

Leading directors say it's anti- business hysteria. However, it has

been welcomed by the four main party leaders. Joining me now is

our commentator for the afternoon, the Scottish political editor of

The Times, Angus Macleod. Good afternoon. Thanks for joining

me. We've seen that Mr Fred Goodwin it has been stripped of his

knighthood. What's your opinion? One of the best points made on this

whole issue was made by the First Minister. If you look at friends

knighthood, I should say, it was for services to banking. How absurd

was that that he retained the gong when he had gone pretty well most

of the way down the road, along with other people, of almost

destroying a major bank. That itself to warranted their removal

of the knighthood. I agree with Alastair Darling also. He has been

-- there has been a certain vindictiveness and tawdriness. How

can you separate RBS from the board of RBS at the time. Do we pursue

them? The whole regulatory system around the banks at that time and

the policies -- politicians who put that system in place, do you pursue

then? It seems to me there has been something of a lynch mob about this

affair. If you look at why it happened and the timescale of how

it happened, you even begin to think, what was the political

involvement and government involvement in this? That opens up

a real can of worms. There was a huge media storm about the RBS

bonus to Stephen Hester. Was it a convenient time for Automatic

Entrance Systems Installers' Federation to be stripped of his on

a? I cannot say definitely one was used to play off the other. But

government in New at the early part of last week that the Hester bonus

was coming up so perhaps they put the plans in place? Who am I to

say? The issue of youth unemployment has

been the main concern at today's National Economic Forum. It's a

body that aims to drive growth in Scotland with representatives from

business, government and the trade unions. Figures show that almost

one in three of those out work in Scotland is aged 18 to 24. The

Youth Employment minister Angela Constance joins me now. Good

afternoon and thanks for joining me. You have been discussing this at

the Forum this morning. How will the issue be taken forward?

important thing we are doing this morning is that we have launched

the first ever used employment strategy. Today it is the National

Economic Forum which had the largest attendance ever. It is the

opportunity for their employment minister to ensure that we are all

singing from the same Hing she -- him sheet and we get a national

response to a national challenge and we create the best

opportunities for our young people. But Labour says it is warm words.

"the development of a cohesive all government strategy to support

young people, or what real-life practical examples do you have to

help young people watching this to help beat -- may be unemployed?

Labour Party were agreeing on and all government approach and getting

behind that effort. Perhaps I can give you some practical examples

because we know that not all young people have the same needs so we

need a variety of targeted responses. The youngest people who

are furthest away from the labour market and those who have

considerable disadvantage whether they are carers and young people

who we know that would find work if the economy is in better health, we

need to keep them positively engaged in education and training.

A third of young unemployed young Scots are full-time students. What

happens to the post graduate students? We need to ensure they

get employment other way week - might otherwise be get displacement

in the labour market. Talking about opportunities for young people, as

the Lib Dems point out, cut to colleges, is that not a key driver

that could tackle youth unemployment if you put that

funding back to colleges? The Lib Dems have a brass neck on this

issue bearing mind they are in Coalition at a UK government level

and, at courtesy of their conservative partners, we are

experiencing unprecedented cuts in the Scottish government. The

Scottish government takes no pleasure in cutting any sector in

these difficult times but, can I remind you, year on year we are

investing �1.5 billion in universities and colleges and

skills training for young people and we meet our commitments in

maintaining College numbers. Colleges continue to be prioritised

towards young people. We have a whole reform programme which is

about ensuring the world of education is more closely aligned

to the world of work. We will have to leave it there.

The Education Secretary is reporting back to Parliament after

setting up a review of higher education. It has been looking at

university governance and there are concerns about a rise in pay of

principles and the lack of accountability. Let us hear what

they have to say. I welcome proposals to address

shortcomings that exist and, in particular, the idea of electing

chairs of court. I will consider all of these with the sector in the

period ahead but I broadly welcome them all. Let me turn to colleges.

What Russell Grix has delivered his thought-provoking, linking are

plans for a regional structure with a new style of governance designed

to fit the institutions which will emerge. I can accept all up --

almost it in its entirety his proposals. Professor Grix also

makes recommendations on the relationship between government and

the college sector. Colleges were dragged away from local authority

control back in 1983 which brought some benefits but it offered

freedom to colleges to what has turned out to be wasteful

competition at times. Pay bargaining resulted in expensive

duplication of the curriculum. He makes a number of helpful

suggestions covering the anachronistic stipulation in how a

college must be governed. There will dividing people over 70 being

appointed. And the invitation to chair the board. No local-authority

employees may accept an invitation to chair a board. Our overall

approach should be one that holds colleges governing bodies to

account for the outcomes we want to see, one that allows the governing

body the latitude to deliver that as it sees fit. We have made

significant headway on the other issue of College regionalisation

and are working closely with the sector in how we take fought the

central element of this in the next academic year -- take forward. We

can slip into jargon. Regionalisation is the means to

restructure the sector so that colleges work together to plan

strategically but deliver locally. It does not mean merger. We need to

work at the relationship between the regional structures and

colleges and we will do so with the colleges themselves. There is a

healthy debate under way and it includes, where it is desired,

institutional merger and other delivery models. I can report

discussions. This week, I discussed with the principle of Caledonian

University and the Minister the private and -- the broader

partnership of schools, colleges within the broader Glasgow region

and both were hugely enthusiastic. I hope they will take an active

part in shaping and delivering a new plan for that region. Such a

model in Glasgow could act as a real force in planning and

delivering the journey to which we are committed and the Learning and

Skills PUP line needs to accelerate growth. -- pipeline. The funding

council would be able to give detailed budget information they

need to plan for the next academic year and to begin the process of

doing so in a regional basis. This is the best way to meet the needs

of employers. There will be 12 regions, mostly finalised but with

sums built - Max Moore detail to be concluded. Highlands and Islands

win --. Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire. Fife is an area where work has to

be done. Tayside will be formed by Dundee and Angus. Glasgow will be

one region. The West will comprise of three colleges. Dumfries and

Galloway cut -- will comprise a college which will have a whole

range of provision and make a really exciting model. Manager will

comprise Motherwell and South Lanarkshire and to others. There

will be essential reading which made... The position of West

Lothian College remains uncertain and I have asked the funding

council to take forward this issue in discuss and -- discussion and I

will meet some of those involved next week. I should make clear my

view that the land-based colleges makes it more perspicacious to...

In summary, these are the 12 regions for the purposes of

planning and funding. I am writing to the funding council to confirm

my views and not everyone will agree. In the event, I need to make

this cessation now so that we begin to realise the benefits. One issue

which was considered in detail is the Government's of the UK

Highlands and Islands. I met with the 13th University academic

partners yesterday to consider how we might move to create an

integrated structure. I was delighted that the partners offered

their support insignificant areas, including 80 I tutted framework -

might a tripartite framework. Higher education, none advanced

further education and research and specialism will hold equal weight.

I also met representatives of the NUS who agreed to work we need to

examine how we might distribute effectively resources to fund

financial support to college students. This will link clued

scope to get rid of uncertainty. I have made a commitment to work

closely with the sector tackling the challenges of. I met principles

on many principles collectively and individually and have listened and

am listening. The �15 million Trans formation fund and other work will

alleviate the dropping funding is hard evidence of that. We're having

the kind of conversations that people once said was impossible. We

have a lot to do but the next step is for funding next year with a

decision on the regions, at the funding council is in a position to

do this and expect the information Questions now on issues raised in

the statement also a my intended to allow around 20 minutes for

questions, after which we move on to the next item of business.

Members who wish to ask a question should press the request to speak

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the copy of his statement. I

welcome many of the recommendations being made. Labour does not dispute

the need to look at issues of governance and accountability when

scarce public resources are involved. Indeed, along with my

former colleague, I raised concerns about the scandalous way in which

renumeration packages of university principals soared beyond �2,000 per

year. I believe that the old boys' network needs to be broken, with

more women involved. Not just in university but in senior positions.

Equally, there are issues of college governance and

accountability which were never fully addressed when they were

taken away from local authority oversight. At the same time, the

Cabinet Secretary should not refuse accountability with ministerial

interference. I got from the comments from the Cabinet Secretary

on academic freedom. I agree with him. But I want to see a clear

indication of the boundaries between accountability for the use

of public funds and the role of ministers. As for colleges, I worry

that the Agenda for regionalisation in governance has been used as an

attempt to move attention away from cuts job losses, caused reductions

and lesser student choice. The plans outlined by the Cabinet

Secretary indicate a shotgun marriage rather than agreements

based on consensus. Can the Cabinet Secretary guarantee that nothing

will be done to risk the loss of charitable status for colleges,

will he be consider the damaging cuts to college funding which are

hindering the ability of colleges to respond to challenges, which he

fully fund all the costs associated with changes to governance and

structures and will he review the role of the funding council to look

at how it can help to improve accountability in governance in

Scotland's universities and colleges? There are elements in the

points raised which I would agree with. There is a strong role for

the funding council. I think the role of the funding council will

have to change to match the new circumstances. One of those issues

is the issue of accountability. We are looking at that. I hope the

Labour Party has responded to the consultation because the role of

the funding council was raised within that. I do welcome that the

abuse that Mr Henry has given in terms of changes in universities. I

think the report last be taken forward by discussion and consensus,

and we will do so. There are some important things in it. The way in

which the accountability of universities is central to how we

see universities in Scotland is a key point. We can agree on a great

deal in that. Listening to that is Terry

Brotherstone from the STUC. He wrote the University of Scotland

submission to their review of higher education governance last

year. He is also a former President of the universities and colleges

union. We are hearing what the minister had to say there and what

Hugh Henry from Labour had to say. Mr Henry was pointing out that it

is good to break up the old boys' network. I don't know if it's an

old boys' network. The number of university principals are very

distinguished women. But what I think this report, as I understood

it although I actually missed the main part of the minister's

comments that referred to universities, I think it opens the

door for much more open governance, much greater public understanding

of what goes on in universities and much greater, meaningful

consultation on campuses when it comes to strategic decision-making.

Mr Henry also pointed out that you could confuse accountability with

ministerial responsibility. Does two have to be kept separate.

report quotes the UNESCO documents of the 1990s and another important

document that Scottish universities are signed up to which insists some

protection and academic freedom, which it sees the autonomy of

universities as essential but not the sole protection of academic

freedom. There is a specific recommendation in the report that

universities should, on the basis of the legislative definition of

academic freedom that is already in Scottish law, that universities

should negotiate agreements on particular campuses as to how that

is implemented. It is in Scottish law, academic freedom is a very

ancient right, isn't it? It is critical to the whole idea of a

university. Universities have changed a great deal, not least in

this country, since the 1960s and even more so since the 1990s. There

is a very different international environment now. Different economic

circumstances. If there is one key idea that defines a university it

is the protection of academic freedom. Many university staff feel

that is under threat. Not so much from any direct political

interference but from the way strategic planning is being done in

order to meet research assessment targets and so on, which make it

very difficult for individual scholars to pursue their own agenda.

Sometimes they feel themselves being pushed into work that they

don't feel to be to the greatest benefit. Moving on to colleges, I

mentioned to the youth Employment Minister what the Lib Dems were

pointing out about the �40 billion cut in the ecology is budget. Do

you think the planning and funding of further education, do you think

it will absorb that cut? Well as saving be made there? I'm not

expert to speak Carmat. I know there is great concern that this

major reform, which I think is broadly welcomed and accepted

across the sector, is taking place at the same time as Major cuts.

It's hard to see how the cuts, a think they already have had an

impact. I know there was great concern but I'm not qualified to

say more than that. Do you think this reorganisation of the colleges

is needed at this time? speaking as an expert at all, I

think that is widely accepted. The 1990s reforms from the college

point of you have not been altogether successful. The

regionalisation idea may well be one way of getting round it. As far

as the relationship between higher and further education is concerned,

which we deal with in our higher education report, I think it is

important that universities are not drawn directly into the idea of

regionalisation. Universities have to be free-standing and timeless

bodies with their own agendas. But they obviously -- they're obviously

should be proper consultation to benefit students, to benefit

articulation from one sector to the other and to make sure we get the

most from our further and higher You're watching politics Scotland.

Still to come... Culture is at the top of the agenda as we debate the

lure of Creative Scotland 2012. Let's speak once again to our

political commentator, Angus MacLeod, from the Times. You were

listening to Angela Constance, the youths and Employment Minister bed.

Do you think the Scottish government have been slow to react

in the changes in youth employment statistics? I think two or three

months ago there was suddenly that big rise in the number of young

people who were out of work in Scotland. The Scottish Government

wasn't alone in being behind the curve on that. But when you are in

government and you appear behind the curve, it is rather

embarrassing. Alex Salmond, being beat acute political animal he is,

immediately responded by appointing Angela Constance and making a big

meal of that appointment. I've been quite rightly. It seems to me that

while Angela Constance is criticised by the other parties,

particularly Labour today, for the warm words. At this stage when you

are trying to respond to these kinds of figures, 80,018 to 24

year-olds out of work in this country, a third of the whole

unemployment total, then you obviously have to be at the stage

of warm words at some stage before you can formulate what you are

going to do. In Angela Constance's predicament, I think she'd be well

advised to get things in place urgently. There's a big burden of

expectation on her here. I think she will be judged on how much the

figures come down in the next few months, if they come down at all.

It is such a difficult issue to tackle. Do governments have the

power, Scottish and UK, do they have that much power to tackle this

kind of issue? In a macro economic front they do. I'm not necessarily

talking about the Scottish government, but this brings us into

the debate on deficit reduction, growth and what the Treasury in

London is doing to help growth in this country. On a more devolved

areas, yes, there are things the Scottish government can do. I think

that Angela Constance will be under a pretty fierce light of

examination on this. We've been talking about higher education and

further education and that �40 million cut in the college budgets.

Have the SNP been left in a bit of a sticky wicket on that? Isn't it

ironic that on the same day they are bringing forward the policy for

tackling youth unemployment, they are facing criticism over the cut

in college funding. Michael Russell was saying earlier it is basically

to cut out duplication, to make regionalisation of college

provision more understandable and more explicable. But I think there

is a major problem here because when he is going down this road he

has to, as Hugh Henry pointed out, be very careful about not to mix up

accountability with interference. Once you get to that level and you

are a government minister and you are accused of interfering, or

indeed higher education, then you bring into question the whole idea

of charitable status. That is going to be a tight rope which Michael

Russell is going to have to walk. How has he been walking that

tightrope? Mr Russell's relationships with the principal of

Glasgow University hasn't been too good. But it that way, there has

been a slight thaw in that relationship. But the whole subject

of principle's renumeration and governance at university, we all

remember the notion of academic freedom at universities from even

when I was there. All these decades and centuries ago! It is a very

important idea. But the government has to be careful that they are not

pinned to the war on of the -- or threatening in any way that

academic freedom. That could be a difficult one for them to get out

of. Why do you think we've come to this stage where some people are

accusing the Scottish Government of threatening academic freedom. Why

is it that the interest from Mr Russell in the universities is

there? The government ultimately, it is a paymaster. When you RE

paymaster, he who pays the piper, as it were. I think that is what is

driving it. I would hope for Mr Russell's sake that it isn't a case

of power going to his head. I'm sure that Michael Russell would

deny that any weight. -- anyway. Not one but two ministers gave

evidence to the energy committee this morning. One from the UK

government and one from the Scottish government. Carbon capture

technology was one flashpoint, after the Westminster government

scrapped plans to fund the Longannet plant. We were all very

saddened that we couldn't reach an agreement with Longannet. An

immense amount of work had gone in over years to try and get us to

that stage. We have allocated �1 billion of public spending to go to

the first project. We clearly couldn't deal with it, we didn't

get the amount of output which we needed, we were looking at 300

megawatts a planned to be installed with technology, and that wasn't

going to be delivered for 1 billion. The Scottish government was kept

informed of those discussions, the leader of them was with the UK

government. There was no offer of funding from the Scottish

government, there was no request to the Scottish government for funding

either. Realistically, I think that had they wished to contribute it

wouldn't have made the difference in terms of the viability of that

project. There were issues on the project which were going to push

the costs up. As an old plant, it would have needed hundreds of

millions being spent on it just to give it the technology to give it

the long-term future that is coming through. Those were additional

costs which were not related, but which would have been carried out

in any case. We have learned a great deal from it. There is

Scotland for CCS plants. We are determined we move forward rather

more quickly to identify future projects and indeed a sustainable

industry in the sector. We lobbied very strongly for successive UK

governments, because this has been a long-running story, Longannet. We

lobbied very strongly for Longannet to proceed. Ultimately it did and

for reasons which I think we already know. -- ultimately it

didn't. There is a legacy of the huge amount of practical and

academic work which is now available for future projects. But

it remains disappointing that it did not go ahead. Energy policy is

substantially Reserved. The Scottish Government is not provided

with budgetary resources to make a contribution towards CCS. The

stimulus was to be �1 billion. We hope and expect that many will be

rolled over for further projects to be considered. We are part of that

process. That process was assisted by the official at the most recent

CCS sub-group meeting, which I chaired. We had a very helpful

dialogue there. There is a further industry did take place on 23rd

February. That is the date from memory that there are further

discussions with industry about how to go ahead then. The very much

hope Scotland will play a part in this technology. But we do not have

the budgets provided which would have made it as able to make a

substantial contribution. I have led a delegation to Brussels in

order to promote Scotland as an excellent candidate for CCS to be

David Cameron has been accused of being part of the problem of huge

executive pay. Ed miler Bin -- Ed Miliband called in the government

to make banks disclose which employees earn more than �1 million

the year. He asks about the number of people

getting 1 million pound bonuses. It was the last Labour government when

he was in the Cabinet that a greed and RBS bonus role of �1.3 billion

-- bonus pool. Literally, hundreds of people were getting million-

pound bonuses and he signed it off. The issue for the honourable

gentleman is why he is in favour now in opposition for being seen

ever did in government. Some people might call it hypocrisy. I will

tell them what hypocrisy is. It is saying he will stop a million-pound

bonus to Stephen Hester and then nodding it through. I have to say

to him, I think we have now heard it all because he now says that the

class to -- class war against the bankers will be led by him and his

cabinet of millionaires. I don't think it will wash, frankly. Let me

ask him about another simple proposal. He had no answer on

transparency. Does he agree that, to bring a dose of realism to the

decisions about top pay, there should be an ordinary employee on

every page committee so that people on a huge salary at least have to

look one of their employees in the eye and justify it. Order! The

Prime Minister will know the use of the word "he hypocrisy" in relation

to an individual member is not Parliamentary. Just before the

Prime Minister begins his reply, I would ask him to withdraw that turn

straightaway. I am very happy to do that, Mr Speaker. I think it is

because we are expected to listen to the people who presided over the

biggest banking and financial disaster in our history. The Prime

Minister has denied that he is cutting benefits for disabled

children but the lower rate of disability living allowance has

been reduced from almost �54 to almost �27. A cut of practically

50%. 100,000 children will be affected, is that not correct Prime

Minister? What is correct is that anyone on that low work rate of

payment, no one will receive less as a result of their move to

universal credit. No one will be affected by that. Does the Prime

Minister agree that a meaningful cap on benefits is essential if we

are to end the something for nothing culture which developed

under the last government? I think that is absolutely right. It is

right to bring in a cap and it introduces a new principle which is

that you shouldn't be better off than the average family is on

benefits. Will they support us tonight in the lobbies? Just not. I

thought it was all about taking tough decisions and that they were

in favour of a cap. They would tear up some of Labour's history, time

to make a bold decision. Command, one bold decision. I you with us

all against this? A great big vacuum. In opposition, the Prime

Minister told minute -- millions on TV, if you work harder will be

behind you. 82% state owned RBS hasn't signed up to pay a living

wage of �8.30 in London and 7p 20 per aware elsewhere for its staff

and contractors. Why does his government support low wages for

workers but big bucks and bonuses for bank bosses. I thought he was

beginning to get the hang of this then we might have a supporter

tonight. What this Government has done with RBS is radically cut the

bonus pool that was a massive under Labour, the say there should be a

until hundred 1000 hand cash cap unlike the increase under Labour,

and beginning to get his bank under control. Now to Westminster and

reaction to those issues. Our correspondent is standing by. David,

you have some guests with you thought you will soon as they are

stuck in the lobby on voting. What has been the reaction today on the

night to being stripped from Fred Goodwin? The public reaction to at

Prime Minister's Question Times... It wasn't raised at all and that is

quite strange. MPs have been discussing it. This morning MPs

have had time to think about it. There is a feeling amongst some MPs

that threat could win -- Fred Goodwin, that it was wrong he had a

knighthood. There are an increasing number of and MPs who were not

stick their head above the parapet but they might think that it wasn't

just afraid good win at their RBS but there were others on the board

as well and others who have been honoured for their work in banking.

As we know of what happened at the Royal Bank of Scotland, it led to

the bank going bust and the taxpayer having to bail it out to

the tune of something like �45 million. I think you will find it

is very difficult to get MPs to come out and say it is wrong what

happened, that Automatic Entrance Systems Installers' Federation was

stripped of his knighthood. Alastair Darling made interesting

comments he was at the Treasury when the RBS saga was taking place.

He was saying that Fred Goodwin made mistakes and everyone knows

that but there were others who were perhaps culpable as well. On a

connected point, we had at Prime Minister's Questions that Ed

Miliband was taking up the Prime Minister on the issue of executive

pay and Stephen Hester's bonus. It has been a difficult few days for

the Prime Minister and his RBS connections, hasn't it? A very

difficult few days. I think Ed Miliband's supporters think he has

that -- behaved quite well on this. At the weekend, it was announced

that Stephen Hester would not take his bonus of almost �1 million in

shares, that I think was because Stephen Hester had seen the Labour

Party would put this issue to a boat in the House of Commons. I

think he and the RBS board felt that the government could be

defeated on this issue. That is why he decided not to take the bonus.

Ed Miliband scored a palpable hit with that one and he had quite a

good performance in the House of Commons yesterday when David

Cameron had to report on an EU summit. Perhaps the timing of the

announcement that Fred Goodwin would not have his knighted any

longer was the to it as for the government yesterday. And the issue

of welfare reform and the CAP that one single family could receiving

benefits. The Prime Minister was pressing that point home, are you

with us or against us? He got no answer on that. The whips have also

been in action time after time, a Tory and Lib Dem MP, they got up

and said, wasn't it fair that people who went out to work should

not be penalised receiving less than those on benefits. The

Government's answer is simple. They say they want a cup of -- on

benefits of �26,000 a year, up to �500 a week. They say it is wrong

and -- that people who get -- should get more on benefits than

those to go out to work. They say they want to make work pay and they

want people who can come off benefits to go to work and get off

them. Labour say they are not against that at but that there

should be regional caps in different parts of the UK. In

London, housing is far more expensive and it literally costs

far more to live in some parts of the UK than others. Time and time

again at Prime Minister's Question Time, David Cameron tried to goat

Ed Miliband say what Labour would do on that one. We have a series of

votes going on in the House where MPs are being asked to overturn

some of the amendments that were made in the House of Lords. At

Westminster, legislation starts in either the Commons or the Lords.

The same bill has to be agreed by both Houses of Parliament. Why at

the moment, the House of Lords say they want one thing and the House

of Commons say they want another. In all likelihood, the government

will get its way in overturning the amendments and they will then have

to go back to the House of Lords. As with all these cases, the

government will get its way but that is not to say there will not

be fierce argument. Some Labour MPs have been expressing concern about

the company which decides if people are eligible for some benefit. What

other concerns from the Labour MPs about that? Their concerns are that

they see it as a privatisation of the benefits system, if you like.

What the government has said is that it wants to improve the

efficiency of the way it delivers benefits. It wants to look

carefully at a whole range of benefits. It is very contentious.

There are pilot studies going on to see if people are fit to go back to

work and also looking at the level of benefits. It plays as part of a

wider narrative where the Coalition government says it wants to do all

it can to boost employment and it wants people to be better off in

work than those who are on benefits. The flipside is that Labour says,

in a recession, there are people who cannot get jobs. If you are not

careful, it will penalise the very people who actually need benefits

most of all. OK, David, thank you very much.

Let us turn to our political commentator, Angus MacLeod, and

pick up on the welfare reform. They are waiting in the House of Commons

so could not speak to us. As David says, the government will triumph,

when they? You can tell from David Cameron and the way he is answering

questions in this area that he thinks he has an advantage in the

public mind over Ed Miliband and Labour. Without being unkind to

Labour, I listened to very is Labour spokesman over the last few

days you agree there should be a benefits cap but when you push them

a bit further and ask them what should that be, they cannot tell us.

That is a bit of a cop-out. You can't say they should be a cat but

don't ask me what it is. That is not responsible politics. Given the

pressure the government has been under from pressure groups, from

Peers in the House of Lords, it is strange that the opinion polls tend

to show that most public opinion is we is so government on this - the

notion that you should make work pay and that they should know be

penalty for being at work rather than being on benefits. It

resonates with a lot of people in this country. Thanks Frame much for

that. Let us hear some more now on what

has been called a youth unemployment crisis. We spent to

the youth unemployment Minister earlier and now we will speak to

other party members. Thank you for joining me. From Labour, we were

speaking to a Angela constants he was pointing out that you called

her a lot of warm words. Are there not some fundamental things they're

about try to get some young people from outlying areas back into work?

Fundamental things the Scottish government are trying to do?

Absolutely. I was at the Forum this morning. There were eight

government ministers there are no they need to get on with the job of

creating jobs in Scotland. It is a national crisis. What is your

recipe for success? What do you want to see done that could get

young unemployed people of the Dell? The first thing the

government has to do is to stop cutting millions of pounds out of

the college sector. That is the money that keeps students in

college and help them build a better future for them. The

government is dipping that away and in another part of the city, trying

to create an un employment strategy. It is counter-productive. Do not

think it changes could mean a saving of �40 million. A in what

way? The changes they are making to the colleges, do you not think they

Maintaining the status quo at the moment, maintaining the same number

of student places just isn't enough. Gavin Brown from the Conservatives,

it's a pretty difficult issue the Scottish government are facing.

What would you do? Be it is difficult. I would be positive

about the Scottish Government in setting up their new dedicated

Minister, it's an excellent Moopa. The idea of having a forum,

engaging with business is an excellent idea, too. My concern is

with one hand they are putting �30 million into trying to deal with

youth unemployment. Yet with the other hand they are taking away �40

million out of colleges and out of further education. It ends up

taking out around �70 million a year by year three. This is at a

time when youths unemployment is at a record high. 88,000 people

between 18-24 are out of work. That goes up to about 100,000 where its

people between 16-24. It's the wrong time to take money out of

colleges. Willie Rennie from the Liberal Democrats, you've been

making that point, too. As the SNP government point out, they are

under pressure from Westminster, government cuts from your coalition

colleagues. They've got an extra �750 million since they first set

out their budget plans back in the autumn. They've got no excuse.

They've got the money there. They could reverse the cuts to date. It

would have been much more productive this morning if they had,

on the first item of the agenda this morning, announced they were

going to reverse the cuts to colleges. That would be an

important priority for the government and they should do with

right now. Youths in pointing out the Scottish government receives

some extra money through the Barnard consequent Scholes. They

receive money from Westminster, but you work complaining that wasn't

put into the colleges sector. exacted. They should do with right

now. The UK youths contract, it's worth �1 billion across the UK.

Yesterday I was listening to Angela and she didn't mention it wants.

Scottish employers could benefit by �82 million over the course of the

programme. She didn't mention it. I went to the Chamber of Commerce

this week, they didn't know about it. They are not promoting the

scheme in Scotland. Scottish employers need to know they can get

access to this money to try and create youth employment

opportunities. The Scottish government are not stepping up to

the plate. Michael Moore is holding his own job summit in March. What

is he going to do? He's going to be setting out how the new contract

could benefit employers and young people across Scotland. We just

need the help of the Scottish government to try and make it even

more effective, but they are refusing to do so. These are the

joined-up things we should be doing because we've got to set aside the

differences between the Parliament to make this a successful strategy.

So far, that has not been achieved. I want to get your reaction on Fred

Goodwin. Willie Rennie, do you think it was fair that he lost his

knighthood? I think it is right because if it wasn't to be removed

from the man at the head of the RBS when it collapsed, one of the

biggest banking crisis Britain has ever seen. If it wasn't to be

removed it would demean all the other honours that Scots have

across Scotland. It was appropriate to do that. It was sensible,

reasonable, long overdue and I'm happy it's been done. It's come at

a very convenient time for the Conservative government,

considering the fast that there has been over Stephen Hester and his

bonus. It was the correct decision. It was given initially for services

to banking for that very specific reason. I think on that basis it

was the correct decision to remove it. Kezia Dugdale, we are hearing

that Alastair Darling called it tawdry, he'd been treated in a

tawdry way, but he's not singing from the same hymn sheet as Ed

Miliband, is he? The Alastair is saying is this can't be the end of

the matter. This is not the end of banking reform. People want a sense

of justice. They got a sense of justice with Stephen Hester this

week. This isn't the end of the matter. I think that is what

Alastair Darling was hinting at. Thank you all very much for joining

us. Culture is at the top of the agenda at Holyrood this afternoon.

2012 is the idea of creative Scotland, billed as the bird in a

series of so-called focus years leading up to 2014. Labour are

calling on the government to ensure people across the country at the

opportunity to access the events and so it must not be a repeat of

the gathering which they called a fiasco. Let's step into the chamber

where Fiona Hyslop is speaking. Creative Scotland, a free guide to

Scottish Bestival 2012. That showcases over 350 festivals across

the country. There is also an interactive and festivals matched -

- map to show pays Scotland's rich cultural events. Presiding officer,

in the time available today it is difficult to encompass the

incredible wealth of culture and creativity taking place in Scotland

during this year, on top of the activity that takes place each and

every year. The year of Creative Scotland provides us with a

fantastic opportunity to celebrate and promote our writers, artists,

musicians and performers. It doesn't all end on December 31st,

1920 12. On 1st January, 1920 13, Scotland enters the idea of natural

Scotland, with a stronger than ever global reputation for Culture and

creativity. As Einstein was quoted as saying, creativity is contagious.

Pass it on. It will reach beyond 2012. To help ensure the cultural

legacy of the year, I am pleased to confirm that an additional �1.1

million released from the UK capital consequential, as announced

by the cabinet secretary for finance, employment and sustainable

growth yesterday, will be allocated to culture. 840,000 of his

allocation will be invested in infrastructure, with funding of

�300,000 going to the National Library of Scotland to help the

Kelvin Hall project and other improvements. 300,000 going to the

National Gallery of Scotland for essential improvements. 240,000 got

into the national performing countries -- of unease for new

equipment, performance and education work. Further

announcements will follow on how the remainder will be allocated,

but I'm pleased to announce a further allocation of �300,000 from

existing budgets to the National Museums of Scotland or repairs and

maintenance. These resources on existing, world class portfolio of

activities and the new initiatives and projects. The wealth of partner

events that have joined and benefited from the celebration. The

London 2012 Festival and the torch relay, and all the partnerships

that will be strengthened during 2012 places in an excellent

position to build towards that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that

will arise in 2014, when Scotland welcomes the world to join us for

our second year home coming when, as a nation, we take centre stage

in world terms as host of the Commonwealth Games and the Ryder

Cup. I just want to make sure you moved your motion, Cabinet

Secretary. I did at the start of my speech. I now call on Patricia

Ferguson to speak to and move the amendment in her name, nine minutes.

I will move the amendment in mining. Can I also welcome the �1.1 million

of consequential being allocated to culture in Scotland. I'm sure it

will be put to very good use. In January 2006, I was pleased to

announce to Parliament that a new body to be called Creative Scotland

would be established. This new body would be charged with supporting

the arts in Scotland and creating a climate where culture could

flourish and where people could experience and enjoy all that a

truly creative Scotland had to offer. The gestation of Creative

Scotland may have been difficult and it may have gone on longer than

any of us could have imagined. But we now have an organisation fully

equipped to carry out the changed role it has been task with. Created

Scotland is up and running and beginning to establish itself as an

important part of the cultural and artistic life of Scotland. Creative

Scotland, the organisation, is well placed to play a key role in the

year of Creative Scotland. And to work with its partners,

particularly in events Scotland and visit Scotland, to bring forward a

programme of exciting events across the country. I'm delighted to see

the continuation of this collaboration between the agencies

and their partners. And to see that the Cultural Olympiad, which

accompanies the Olympic and Paralympic Games, is a component. I

congratulate the minister, who body swerve to for Scotland in avoiding

Mr Smith's request on this occasion. But it is also interesting to hear

more detail about the Olympic Festival. I wonder whether

enclosing, if it be him who is closing, could perhaps see a bit

more about the Olympic Festival, as it will be immediately around the

footballing events that will take place in Glasgow. The three

agencies were always intended to complement one another, and to work

with other partners for the benefit of our country. Debating Creative

Scotland 2012. Let's have a chat with our studio guest, Angus

MacLeod from the Times. The Times had a poll on Monday about

independence. It was showing about 39 % support for independence.

was in Tuesday's paper. It was one of these opinion polls that had

something for everyone. It was 1000 Scots, easily the biggest sample of

any opinion poll since Alex Salmond's announced that of the

referendum question. There was something for everyone in it. You

could argue that the Scottish Government haven't really had a

major bounce in the poll. It showed 39 % support for independence. They

probably come on the balance of probability, they would have been

expecting that given the media attention, given the huge attention

that Alex Salmond and his consultation document and

referendum question got last week, that that would have shown at least

a gentle upswing. It didn't really show that. But the SNP could argue

that the seven. Drop in those supporting the Union, down from 57

% Ipsos MORI polled in early December to now, its 50 %. That is

important and interesting. But it didn't give us any real evidence

that these 7% were actually going straight across to the independence

camp. They were, if I can quote a famous footballer, there may be i,

may be no. If you think about a year ago when it was running at

only up to 28 %, it has gone up by 10 percentage points in a year.

That must be progress. It is 1st February day, January was an

intense month discussing the referendum. But today it has been

youth unemployment and higher education. It has been an unusual

shift. I'm tempted to say the real politics has come back to the

forefront, but maybe that is not strictly fair. I think there is an

element this week, certainly since the opinion poll, of people

beginning to draw breath and beginning to think where they are

in terms of the constitutional debate. That is good for Deerbolt

politics because it shows that the constitution has realise this is

hugely important. -- devolved politics. There are people out

there looking for work. There are young people looking at a very

bleak future. Politics is about politicians addressing that kind of

problem and trying to come up with solutions. Let's face it, the

Scottish Parliament wasn't really built for the big global issues.

This is an issue on their doorstep that they should be trying to fix.

Briefly, speaking about politicians trying to address the issue, we

have John Swinney speaking about the state of the economy tomorrow.

Yes. Over the last couple of weeks we've seen a lot of Conservative

commentators are beginning to criticise George Osborne or simply

concentrating on deficit reduction, telling him he has to get growth

into the economy. That is the way you get money in and stop paying so

much in benefits out. It is interesting that John Swinney is

adding to these conservative commentators and other commentators

who have been very vocal over the last two weeks. Thank you for