01/11/2012 Politics Scotland

Good afternoon. In the last few minutes the Scottish government has

announced it is the boat in extra resources to the issue of student

at the Natural Law Lords. -- student awards. We now go to the

chamber. General questions still coming to a

close. Alex Salmond took some flak for not being here on Tuesday for

the debate which focused on the controversy surrounding Scotland,

Europe, and legal advice. He may mount at personal defence today.

That will depend upon the questions put to him by his opponents and

colleagues. In the meantime it Nicola Sturgeon is answering on

that Scottish Water. Well come at the speaker from the

National Assembly of Diana. -- Diana. Thank you can I ask what

engagements the he has planned for the rest of the day?

We are expressing the sympathy and Solidarity of Scotland in relation

to the extra ordinary weather conditions which have engulfed the

eastern seaboard of the United States. I am sure in that letter

our sensibilities go to the people of America in these difficult times.

Last week it was said that it was a cast iron position that the

independent Scotland would retain the pound. Can I ask when in this

agreement with the Treasury and the Bank of England was reached?

Secretary of State for Scotland pointed out that there was no legal

bar to Scotland having Stirling as its currency. The proposition that

we have put forward is a reasonable one. I am not certain of what the

Labour Party position is on this, but we think it suits the interests

of Scotland and the rest of the UK to have such as home. In terms of

Scotland's interest there is the argument for continuity. In terms

of both our interests it is what would be called up optimal currency

area. That is not my description. That is the description of the

Institute of Fiscal Studies. As to why it to be in the interest of the

rest of the UK - in terms of protection to balance of payments

it would afford �40 billion protection to the balance of

payments. They would be biting our hands of for Scotland to detain in

membership of the currency. -- to retain. That was a very convincing

response in terms of the debate. There is not a legal bar to a lot

of things, but that is different to a cast iron guarantee. Court and

expectation is not the same as a cast-iron guarantee. Surely the

First Minister understands that. According to the First Minister we

will be in the EU without having to apply. We know that without asking

any other member state or anyone else for legal advice. We know we

will not have to have the euro and we do not need to ask for that

either. And you will keep the pound and the do not need to ask about

that either. Without looking at the long-range forecast what will the

weather be like in an independent Scotland? Order. Order. In the

interests of a serious debate on the issue has she cast her eye over

this evidence given to the House of Commons foreign affairs committee?

That advice was given by an honorary director of the European

Commission. That advice points out that Scotland has acquired rights.

For practical reasons they could not be asked to leave the EU at

asked to re- apply. I know this is inconvenient for the political

weather facing the Labour Party but it does put the lie to this

scaremongering campaign of Labour and the Unionist colleagues in the

Conservative Party. In their interests of a serious debate the

First Minister ought to... Order. He ought to find somebody that will

agree. There are lot of different positions including one of his own

backbenchers to said on Tuesday that these things are not definite,

they are all open to negotiation. The First Minister asserts things

for which she has no evidence. It is about time that the First

Minister got serious about the future of Scotland. It is at First

Minister who thinks he can treat the people of Scotland like fools.

He thinks they will believe everything he says. After last week

nobody just a word he says. I understand why he did not turn up

to the debate on Tuesday to detect his reputation. It was because he

knows he no longer has a reputation to defend. What is it that he is so

scared of that he cannot ask that and Government about the pound? He

cannot ask the EU members about Europe? Is it that he cannot face

the truth when he is presented with that? On the question of the

currency, we set up a commission which is making a serious

contribution to that debate. In terms of the trust and the serious

debate can I point out that this has been tested, not just in the

elections, but in a Social attitudes Survey. There is a

question asked by a survey last week about who best stands up for

Scotland. Joanne Mullah want's figure was six %. -- the Labour

leader's figure was six %. The reason that people do not trust the

Labour Party is because of our commitment to defend free

prescriptions, education, and the Labour Party is in the middle of

tearing up these commitments. The first political party in history to

betray its commitments in opposition. An extraordinary

achievement from the Labour Party. If the Labour Party was to regain

the trust of the people why not have that debate? Energy rich

Scotland will be welcomed with open arms in a day European Union.

the debate about Scotland's future I say that in tough times you look

at making sure that those with the brothers borders -- modest

shoulders take the heaviest burden. It would have been an idea to

pursue the idea of whether we will have the pallid or not what the

Bank of England and the Treasury. - - the pound. They will be the

people that will decide that matter. The First Minister has long sought

an international profile. My goodness he has got that. The

Washington Post, the newspaper that expose Richard Nixon's corruption,

nose and chatter when it sees one. -- noes chatter. It makes a serious

charge. Order. Order. The Washington Post said, Alex

Salmond's assurances that Scotland could quickly joined at the EU

while retaining the British currency remain to be tested.

London would have a veto over both. EU states might demand that Scott

and commit to the wobbly euro. If the pound was split between two

nations it could be a source of trouble for an affected European

currency. These are serious matters being addressed by serious people.

If the Washington Post can see that, why can't the first barrister not

see it from here? -- First Minister. I welcome the contribution of

newspapers in the United States of America to this debate. The Los

Angeles Times argued that the most important difference would be that

an independent Scotland would be master of its own economy and

natural resources. I agree with that. Then there is the Wall Street

Journal. All too often this debate really get past the sneering view

that Scotland would be too poor or too small to stand outside the UK.

But the claim that Scotland is a subsidy junkie has been proved a

month. Treasury eight that show that Scotland really gives more

than it receives. If that is clear to the Wall Street Journal why has

that news not reach the Labour Party in Scotland? I am fascinated

by the approach to serious political debate. I came across an

article that the Labour leader gave one year ago. She talked about her

great frustration. She said she was more frustrated about the politics

when you play that man and not the politics. After a few weeks when it

debt Labour leader has called meat stupid and devious, no wonder

nobody believes a word she says. -- called me. Question number two.

Ruth Davidson. Order. Order. I want to ask the First Minister when he

will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland? And no plants

in the near future. It is nice to see the First Minister back in his

chair in the chamber. When he ducked out on Tuesday of that

debate, a debate about his conduct, he avoided a sadly very necessary

reminder that the nation it needs trust when it comes to every aspect

of his independence plans. We know that he has no legal basis for his

claims about Scotland's place in Europe. And as for the economy I

will repeat what they Scottish Financial Enterprise Committee said

last week. It was said of the Scottish government that it is

aimed at persuading rather than providing an at authoritative

conclusion. I struggle to see how they have a priority to tell us

anything. That is Europe. That is the economy. What about defence?

This First Minister says an independent Scotland can be a fully

committed member of NATO, but check the nuclear submarine fleet out.

Can he tell us what advice or acts he has sought or received to

You will find the question of NATO membership in Scotland published in

the constitutional documents and also the policy positions of the

Scottish National Party. The idea and for how a non-nuclear state can

be a member of NATO surely is evidenced by the fact that 25 out

of the 28 member countries of NATO and on nuclear at the present

moment. We have the fact and existence that 25 such countries

exist now. I was extremely interested by the interview of

Philip Hammond earlier this week when in the space of one question,

firstly he said he had no contingency plans on an independent

Scotland and he also said they had contingency plans for every

eventuality. I suspect that Ruth Davidson should you say

extraordinary influence within the Conservative Party to actually

follow the recommendations of the House of Commons Select Committee

and suggest to Philip Hammond and the rest of the UK government, it

would be wise indeed to have these contingency plans because I believe,

as a majority of this chamber does, that Scotland will vote for

independence in two years' time and nuclear weapons up on their way out

of Scotland. So his answer on evidence for an SNP policy is to

look at an SNP policy document. A brilliant! It goes further than the

norm and so we got on Tuesday from his deputy leader. I wrote to the

First Minister about this issue. It was all about the legal position in

relation to NATO. What I got back was a letter from a junior official

saying that all will be revealed in the 2013. And wait for it, it will

all be fully in accordance with the legal advice received by Scottish

ministers. We know what that means. I asked the Ministry of Defence

what discussions had taken place with a Scottish government, what

work has gone on to stand for sub. The answer, none. No contact

between the Scottish government and the MoD. No facts to support Mr

Salmon's claims. It is not just the Conservatives that have noticed.

Look behind you, First Minister. Jamie Hepburn, it is nigh on

impossible to remove nuclear weapons under pressure from NATO.

Sandra White, it is hypocritical to be anti- nuclear and pro NATO.

Perhaps it was Councillor Norman Macleod who summed up a policy the

best when he said, this and other issues, it goes into

unsubstantiated assertion. Councillor McLeod, the nation owes

to a debt of gratitude for summing up what we already know. Even his

own side recognises that this First Minister asserts as fact things he

does not know to be true. We know we cannot trust him on defence, we

know we cannot trust him on the economy and we certainly cannot

trust him on Europe. I can Scotland trust him on anything ever again? -

- how come. OK, the select committee on Scottish affairs, I

don't agree with any of the types of politics of the members who made

the report but she will recall just a few days ago, the select

committee on Scottish affairs concluded that it would be possible

to remove nuclear weapons and Scotland and that committee

includes a number of Conservative members. It cannot include any

Conservative Members from Scott and because there are none outside

government at the present moment. My evidence was that 25 out of 28

NATO member countries are non- nuclear. That seems to be pretty

convincing evidence. As far as divisions in her party are

concerned, I don't think Ruth Davidson is in a position to

comment at the present moment. This party has open debate at its annual

conference. What happens at the Conservative Party is there is a

group of 50 MPs in Westminster, who are doing a splendid job. On

Tuesday, I was giving a speech on renewable policy at the UK

renewables conference. But the same time, John Hayes, the UK minister,

gave a speech which he then didn't give which was leaked to the

Telegraph and the Daily Mail which was contradicted by his boss at

10:30am yesterday and by the Prime Minister at premises questions.

Today, his predecessor has entered the debate, disagreeing with his

successor. In the context of the chaos and confusion on Tuesday on

UK energy policy, I think the Scottish National Policy looks

certain. On the question of trust. I mentioned the 60 % -- 6%...

Richard Davidson, there is 5% for you. A constituency question.

the first minister aware that the RMT union is balloting these crews

That work on a ship Orkney and Shetland crews at this time, we

face industrial action over the Christmas period which had half a

devastating impact on families, goods and products and on the

salmon, muscles and white fish which is exported at a time. When

he undertake to look into this issue, make sure the strike does

not happen and that we can look forward to Christmas without

destruction? The government is aware of the possibility of

industrial action and will be doing its utmost to avoid industrial

action which would severely inconvenience people in the

northern islands. I would say that the RMT have balloted for

industrial action at a number of times in recent times and many of

these disputes will be settled. I am sure this whole chamber hopes

this dispute will be settled as well. To ask the first minister

what discussions the Scottish government has had with the

National Museum of Scotland regarding the potential closure of

the National Museum of costume which is so vital to Dumfries and

Galloway. Also, his part of a strong network of tourism

infrastructure. It could be a serious loss to the local economy.

I am aware of the issue and can I undertake that the Culture

Secretary will contact the member and if she seeks the meeting, that

meeting will be granted. The issue must be discussed in detail. To ask

the first minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of

the Cabinet. Issues of importance to the people Scotland. The first

minister and I can agree that it would be unlikely an independent

Scotland would be excluded from the European Union. I am afraid he miss

the point. The question is the terms. Has he agreed, has he

secured any agreement with the 27 countries of the European Union to

show that they will approve his detailed terms for Scotland's place

in Europe? I don't know whether he has caught up with for news that

the Westminster government have confirmed they are not going to

take up the European Commission's officer -- offer for the advice on

this matter. It puts him in a strange position as far as the

parties concerned. I referred to the paper a few seconds ago. I

think I should refer Willie Rennie to wit as well. The second last

sentence, such solutions would be in Scotland's interests because it

would be able to obtain a better detail -- a deal for a independent

state. That seems to me, from an independent academic, a pretty

strong statement of our belief that Scotland would be better as a

member state of the European Union than a subsidiary part of a state

which, as I see from various events within the coalition government, it

doesn't seem to be particularly enthusiastic about European union

membership at a doesn't permit. first minister would have to get

the agreement from 27 countries, not just the opinion of the

European Commission. Mr Avery said that Scotland terms of membership

would be the subject to agreement with the 27 other governments. It

is hard to believe that the first minister doesn't have won a single

agreement. He clearly thinks all 27 will just signed up to whatever he

wants. This is not just about the specific legal advice he asked for

or not, or the academic opinion he prefers to side or ignores. This is

about the politics, the domestic politics of other countries as well.

The first minister might not like this but other people now doubt

what he says. They want to know for sure, what they might lose before

they vote in any referendum. So, as he has no agreements with other

countries yet, when does he expect to get them all would it be vote

first, ask questions later? suggest he pays more attention to

reading the paper from Graham Avery. The key Points it makes is a Scot

Am's position will be negotiated from within the European Union. He

also goes on to express the view that I've read out to Willie Rennie,

that that would be a better position as an independent state

than we have as -- at present. It gives the counterbalance to the

arguments of people who, I'm sure we Rennie would want to follow

because he says he was sure that Scotland would become a member of

the European Union, but wasn't it Lord Wallace a few weeks ago, who

was openly speculating on Scotland being shunned and put out of the

European Union? Once the Liberal Democrats can get a consistent

policy between their few members has got and, perhaps they should

turn to the chamber. We are in a situation that the present moment

where, and this is a modest assertion, but there is a good deal

of uncertainty over the UK's membership of the European Union.

Why is there a good deal of uncertainty? Because the partners

in the UK Coalition have a sizable group of people who want to leave

the European Union. Given that Willie Rennie is part of a party in

government with a great deal of people, and perhaps even cabinet

ministers, who want to leave the European Union, I don't think he is

in a good position to come to this chamber and a lecture us on our

European credentials. Scotland is a European nation and we intend to

stay a European nation. Resource Twitter, a... I can hardly resist

telling Willie Rennie that while Lamont has 6%, Ruth Davidson 5%,

his total was 2% of the Scottish population. To ask the first

minister what economic benefits for Scotland there are over replacing

Trident. Scottish taxpayers currently pay �163 million a year

towards the running of Trident. That money could be spent on 3880

nurses, 4500 teachers or a host of new schools and hospitals in our

communities. That is before we consider the extra 84 million a

year that is proposed to be spent on a replacement over the next 15

years. This week of we've had the UK defence secretary coming up to

Scotland and saying he hasn't even considered the people of Scotland

would vote Yes in 2014 and he plans to foist on this country nuclear-

weapons over the next 50 years. The arrogance of that kind is typical

of Tory ministers who believe they can continue to treat this country

as a nuclear dump. I think they are not on. Can I thank the First

Minister for that interesting response? Would he agree it is

incumbent on all but a cut that political leaders to make their

position known. The Scottish Nuclear Disarmament criticised

Lamont for consistently failing to publicise her views on Trident.

This was after one of her own front bench has claimed that renewal was

economically incompetent. Unlike the Labour Party, at any of the

Scottish Government's position on this is crystal clear. Will the

first minister reiterate that position, in the hope that the

majority of members in this chamber can speak out and resist the

development and the dumping of nuclear arms in Scotland?

majority of this chamber have have voted to get tried and out of

Scotland. That opinion is shared across Scotland by the churches,

the STUC and civil society who propose -- a pose Trident. As far

as the UK Minister's determination to foist nuclear weapons on

Scotland over the next 50 years, can I point out, as I understand it,

although these things... That policy is not even supported by the

other half of the coalition in Westminster. In a situation where

this government, a majority of this Parliament, a majority of Scottish

people, Scottish Civic Society do not want to see nuclear weapons

renewed in Scotland, can we not declare as a people and as a nation,

that enough is enough and we are not standing for it any more?

ask the first minister what a Scottish Government's response is

to the Audit Scotland report NHS financial performance 2011 / 12

which suggests reductions and growing financial pressures?

Scottish government, as the number well knows, has protected spending

on NHS, is a love real-terms increases in 12 / 13 and 14 / 15.

That is reflected in an uplift of 3.3 % in 13 / 14, as compared to

the Treasury deflator of 2.5 %. The ordered Scotland report highlighted

that the NHS but even and said that the relatively small surpluses

achieved highlights the careful management of the financial

position. The First Minister's response reminds me of NHS Lothians

approach to waiting times, where there was a culture of strongly

discouraging the reporting of bad news. I hope the first minister

will not continue to be in denial about the problems facing the NHS.

Would he therefore agree that the cuts to nursing numbers of over

2500 are having I direct impact, not just on patient care, but on

nurses themselves? Today, in the Edinburgh Evening News, we find

that 17,500 working days are lost amongst nurses alone, due to stress

in NHS Lothian. That is a record high. Is that not a wake-up call

for the SNP and the first minister? Jackie Baillie also knows that

sickness absence across the NHS is much lower than when Labour were in

government. She should also note that on every indicator, the NHS

service in Scotland is performing at record levels. It is a tribute

to the nurses, doctors at every single worker in our NHS. A Jackie

Baillie says I'm not a purveyor of bad news and I think that is

probably true. She could never claim that title for herself. It is

after all, less than a year ago, since Jackie Baillie agreed us --

assured us that Scotland was, the super bug capital of Europe.

Unfortunately for Jackie Baillie, it was then found out the

statistics which she was relying on related to the period of Labour in

government in Scotland. I'm open to correction on this, if Jackie

Baillie has ever had the courtesy to apologise for that slight on the

NHS. I am just quoting the super bug capital of Europe. The

statistics are based on a survey of 20071 of the Labour Party were in

government. Clearly, a major mistake from Jackie Baillie but

surely evidence from my contention that Jackie Baillie and bad news

are never far separated. To ask the first minister what progress has

been made to ensure equal pay by employers subject to its public

sector pay policy. We are committed to ensuring pay systems are fair

and non-discriminatory. Scotland has a strong record in this area.

The pay gap is smaller than the rest of the UK. The gap still

exists. That is not acceptable. We will continue to work with key

partners to address the issue. grateful to the first minister for

his comments. I note a letter in the Sunday Herald a few weeks back,

which talked about universal services being an essential part of

Labour policy. Does the First Minister Shimla surprise that the

SNP is not the only major but a party which maintains this year?

That is correct. These services were considered vital in the Labour

Party manifesto last year when Ms Lamont was deputy leader of the

party but none now sacrificed in the New Labour policy review.

Social wages are an important concept. The living wage is an

important concept. It helps us close the gender gap in pay and the

social ways as part of a social contract for society that in these

tough times, people can see the government is doing their best to

help them on things like the council tax prescription charges

and free tuition. I would have hoped that would carry the vast

majority of this chamber. I think the Labour Party and Mr Lamont will

find out of their cost that desertion of these key principles

will cost the Labour Party dear in Scottish politics in times to come.