Browse content similar to 05/09/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the first Politics Scotland of the | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
parliamentary session. Coming up: Alex Salmond reshuffles his | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
ministerial team not what big changes at the top Nicola Sturgeon | :00:30. | :00:37. | |
task with overseeing constitutional change. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
The record of this parliament is the clearest possible evidence that | :00:41. | :00:50. | |
unless people take decisions about the future of Scotland we need to | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
give people the choice of independence. We need to give | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
ourselves responsibility is a nation in the world and a | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
Government that reflects the people's priorities and Scottish | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
values. And Europe Westminster as David | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Cameron completes his reshuffle just what will it mean in the fight | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
to kick-start the economy? Good afternoon. Alex Salmond has | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
conducted a major reshuffle of his ministerial team. There were | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
rumours of it this morning and just after 1pm the new team were | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
announced and you it is. The biggest change is Nicola Sturgeon | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
being appointed as Infrastructure Secretary. She has passed without | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
taking a key responsibility in the economy and overlooking the | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
constitution. Alex Neil now takes on the health brief. Bruce Crawford | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
is retiring as secretary and Bryan Adams will also exit as Minister of | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
parliamentary business. Their roles will be taken on by Joe Fitzpatrick | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
from Dundee West. Another departure it is Stewart Stevenson who is | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
leaving his climate change brief and is represented by this man from | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
the South of Sir Scotland. There are couple of new faces joining as | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
well. Humza Yousaf from Glasgow comes a Minister for External | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
Affairs and International Development Welt Margaret Burgess | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
who represents Cunninghame South is going to welfare. It is go across | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
to our Political Correspondent Raymond Buchanan who is standing at | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
parliament in Scotland. Why has there been a need for a reshuffle? | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
We have an obvious timetable set up by Alex Salmond which says that he | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
wants to will their independence referendum in the autumn of 2014. A | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
lot of focus will be on at Nicola Sturgeon is new duties in charge of | :02:42. | :02:49. | |
the constitution. She will now take responsibility for that strategy. | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
Her job will be to win and yes vote in the autumn of 2014. She is used | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
to handling controversial subjects, she handled the swine flu epidemic | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
and recently same-sex marriage and also the Scottish Parliament or for | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
two parliaments with minimum pricing on argol. Now she has been | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
handed by her close colleague Alex Salmond the biggest challenge of a | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
political career. Let us look at the thinking behind the reshuffle. | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
And now it joined by big Cabinet secretary for finance. What is | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Nicola Sturgeon is change of role telling us about this Government's | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
strategy ahead? It tells us that the Government is focused entirely | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
on its twin purposes of delivering economic recovery and winning a yes | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
vote in the referendum and pitting their argument to the people of | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon his new role will marry together those | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
responsibilities and as we know from her record as a long-standing | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
and very effective health secretary she will do that with significant | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
gusto. What was she bring to the negotiations with the UK Government | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
author and any questions they should be in their referendum? What | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
can she do that Bruce Crawford cannot? Bruce Crawford has taking a | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
stand down for his own personal reasons which we can all understand. | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
He has served that the Government of brilliantly over the last five | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
years but has made his own decision to step aside. Nicola Sturgeon will | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
be taking forward the negotiations that Rhys Crockfords dead. She is | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
looking at the end game and we are involved in that endgame. -- an | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
Bruce Crawford dent. She is looking to seal their agreement between at | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
the Scottish and UK Government. Also bringing in new blood at the | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
lower ranks. What is that in that? Is it about giving hope to the mass | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
numbers of MSPs elected in 2011? is about making sure that we use | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
the talent as effectively as we can do. When we addressed the people at | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
lunchtime and set out their changes that Alex Salmond wanted to make it | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
was clear the he had a long list of people that he could have appointed | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
but he did not at the vacancies to deal with every possibility. In | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
appointing Joe Fitzpatrick as the new Minister for or parliamentary | :05:14. | :05:21. | |
business who is a new Staffa and the involvement of Margaret Burgess | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
looking at welfare reform issues where she has a fantastic track | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
record of active working to support on a boat people in our society, it | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
really strengthens our team as we embark on meeting the challenges | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
that lie ahead and preparing Scotland for economic recovery and | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
winning the referendum. Is this shuffling just where people sit | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
around the Cabinet table or is it showing a change in economic | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
policy? It signals the Government's determination to ensure that we | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
have the people in the right place to deliver the Government's agenda. | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
We have Nicola Sturgeon working very closely with me on economic | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
recovery as I was working there for a with Alex Neil. We're looking to | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
deliver the referendum for the Government. Alex Neil is moving | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
into the health brief and is one of the Cabinet's strongest members. | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
What is important is that we have people in the right jobs using | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
their skills and their talents and I think the first Minister has made | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
a very strong decision in that respect today. Nicola Sturgeon has | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
made clear her personal preference is for one question referendum. It | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
is clear that there is not much to negotiate with with the UK | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
Government. We should have a one question referendum in at the | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
autumn of 2014. We certainly should have it in the autumn of 2014. It | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
is going to be in their autumn of 2014. And that way at that issue | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
settled. On the questions. The Government is involved in a | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
consultation exercise and we are assessing those consultation | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
responses and will determine what is the right way to proceed after | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
that. What is important is that we take forward an orderly approach to | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
the referendum that is what we're always wanted to do is that is what | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
we're going to do. A pot of those stairs MSPs have gathered to listen | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
to a debate and one of those contributors to that debate is | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
Nicola Sturgeon. Raymond Buchanan, Thank you very | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
much. We will renew Nicola Sturgeon sharply but first ball let us go to | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
John Curtice from Strathclyde University for some analysis. It is | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
economy and referendum, isn't it? That is absolutely right. What | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
became clear from Alex Salmon's statement yesterday was that the | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
SNP are not going to win the referendum unless they can persuade | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
the public that Scotland's economy will be stronger as an independent | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
country. To be able to do that the SNP need to be able to demonstrate | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
that they have someone who can deliver economic growth. I think it | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
is most undoubtedly are crucial reason why this change has happened, | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
it means that these two parts of the police have been brought | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
together and he's trying to say to Scotland, we are not ignoring their | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
it economy by doing the constitution, the constitutional | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
issue and the economic issue goes together. It does also have one | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
interesting consequence, it means that in so far as you regard Nicola | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
Sturgeon as one of the top big hitters of his Government, she is | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
no longer going to have to deal with the same-sex marriage issue | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
which has led to controversy and that will go to Alex Neil. That is | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
a diversion of her time and political energies and that has now | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
been avoided. It does have caused raised this question, that all the | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
sudden apparently, we are in their endgame of the negotiations with | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
then the argument between the UK Government and the Scottish | :09:05. | :09:13. | |
Government over the conduct of the referendum. The junior minister at | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
-- Minister of the Scottish Office is now pulling out of that. Now | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
we're looking to see how far those negotiations ever got. We might not | :09:25. | :09:32. | |
have expected a change of personnel at this point in time. What are we | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
looking at you? Does Alex Salmond want to it have something to | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
announce at the SNP conference in mid-October? That is an obvious | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
deadline. They did indicate that the Government was expecting to | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
announce its response to the consultation conducted over this | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
year and next month. It could well therefore be in the first have of | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
October. They could be choreographing it at the same time | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
as the Scottish Government announces its consultation and it | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
will tell us the result of the endgame which is either going to be | :10:04. | :10:12. | |
an agreement with the UK Government transferring to the Holyrood | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
parliament more power or whether it at the end of these knitters | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
Nations they might not have come to anything. Well they still proceed | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
to the referendum in that order? I think it will be a lot easier at | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
that time, all those ministers are trying to fend of those questions | :10:28. | :10:37. | |
over whether decisions have been made, the to face this issue of the | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
SNP wanting to change the party policies for an independent | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
Scottish motion later. The we're going to Nicola Sturgeon live in | :10:46. | :10:56. | |
:10:56. | :10:58. | ||
Holyrood. Let me take the opportunity since | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
it is available to me to see a few words about the Government changes | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
made by the first minister today. The first thing I want to save from | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
the bottom of my heart is that it has been an extraordinary privilege | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
to serve as Scotland's Health Secretary of it these past five | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
years. I am very proud of what has been achieved in those five years. | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
It has been very challenging times. We have the lowest waiting times on | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
record and the lowest hospital infection rates in Redcar it and | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
we're patient care that is sacred than it has ever been before. I am | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
particularly proud to have steered through this Parliament the ground- | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
breaking legislation on a minimum pricing which is a world leading. I | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
hope to see that implemented as soon as possible. | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
APPLAUSE. I want to thank everybody that I | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
have had the privilege of working with, the officials at the Scottish | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
Government, the cheers of health boards and trade unions, interest | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
groups and above all else those who work in the front line of our | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
health service. We are so incredibly lucky in our Health | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
Service and in those who work in our health service. I am | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
particularly proud of having been able to protect not just the Budget | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
of our National Health Service but the founding principles. I know | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
that Alex Neil will continue to do just that as he takes over as | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
health secretary. I am also extremely excited to be taking on | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
new responsibilities in Government and new responsibilities I take | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
over as of today that reflect very closely that when priorities of the | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
programme for Government the first minister outlined yesterday. That | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
is the programme for Government that the debate today. I will be | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
very pleased to work with the first minister and with John Swinney on | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
the Government's strategy for economic recovery and in that | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
regard and look forward what man is doing it -- ministerial colleagues | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
to Margaret Thatcher's her particularly welcome to the new | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
post as Minister for Housing and Welfare. I look forward to working | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
with them to put cure it the better regulation Bell and as well as | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
other priorities. In taking on the this responsibility and have very | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
big boots to fill. Those that are in the shape of Alex Neil and I see | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
that in the hope that he says the same about his predecessor in the | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
new role that he takes on today. Nothing could be more important in | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
this time than responding to the real pressures that individuals and | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
families across Scotland are facing. We to do everything we can within | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
our powers and resources to get her economy growing and to create jobs. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
We need to challenge as vigorously as we can at the disastrous | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
economic policy of the Tory and Liberal coalition. I repeat today | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
the message already sent loudly and clearly by the first minister to | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
the UK Government. Our economy needs more capital stimulus and it | :14:09. | :14:16. | |
needs it now. We have projects incumbent on their it UK Government | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
to provide the funds were. If they care little about the human cost of | :14:21. | :14:31. | |
:14:31. | :14:32. | ||
unemployment then they will not I want to do so much more than | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
lobby an unresponsive UK Government for a sane economic policy. I want | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
to be in a government with the power to make for ourselves the | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
decisions we need to take to get our economy growing, and that | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
brings me to the second part of my new Government responsibilities. I | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
have believed for all of my adult life that Scotland should be an | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
independent nation. For me, it's never really been about flags or | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
status symbols. It's all about how we make this country of ours the | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
best that it possibly can be. It's based on the fundamental belief | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
that if we want a strong economy, we must have access to all of | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
Scotland's resources - not just to that portion of Scotland's | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
resources that the UK Government chooses to give us. It's based on | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
the inescapable reality if we want to tackle once and for all the | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
scandalous child poverty, then we must be able to make our own | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
decisions on tax and benefits, and Presiding Officer, we must be able | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
to prioritise spending on the early years of our children's lives over | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
spending on weapons of mass destruction. And it's based on - | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
APPLAUSE It's based on the irrefutable logic | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
that if it is right and it is right for this Parliament to take | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
decisions on health, education, on justice, then how can it be | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
anything other than right for this Parliament also to take decisions | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
on the economy, on welfare and defence? I believe passionately | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
that the best people to take decisions about Scotland are those | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
who live here, and Presiding Officer, I look forward immensely | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
with my colleagues to making that honest - that positive and that | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
upbeat case over these next two years, and I look forward to | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
winning that independence referendum in 2014. | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
APPLAUSE Many, many thanks. And now I call | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
on Richard Baker. Presiding Officer, just as I was | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
putting the finishing touches on this speech over lunch, so much has | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
happened. Indeed this appears to be rather monexcitement in the lobby | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
and on particular on the SNP benches over the Scottish Cabinet | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
reshuffle and this legislative programme which is entirely | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
understandable, but while I welcome Nicola Sturgeon to her new role at | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
Infrastructure and Capital Investment this central move of the | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
reshuffle also reflects what is at the heart of the legislative | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
programme announced yesterday that at the end of the day, for the SNP, | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
breaking up the United Kingdom is the be-all-and-end-all. Nicola | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
Sturgeon has quit the health brief so she can spend more time on | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
debating independence. I can tell her that the infrastructure and | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
capital investment brief isn't only time-consuming, it is also crucial. | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
Officer, idea like to tell you how sorry I am to see Mr Neil move on | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
from that role to his new role. But I think we all know that would be | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
stretching the bounds of credibility, something Mr Neil does | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
himself all too often, but actually, I do wish him well, but Mr Neil's... | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
I do. No, I don't. But it also speaks to where this legislative | :17:46. | :17:52. | |
programme fails too because while we look forward with interest to | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
this procurement bill, this Government's underperformance has | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
been damaging to our economy and key sectors including the | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
construction industry. When it comes to the key issue of the | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
economy too often we have had warm words and not the action required | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
from the Scottish Government. Yesterday, the First Minister | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
talked again about shovel-ready projit, his own Government has | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
delayed a host of key infrastructure projects at a time | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
when our construction sector is crying out for work. | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
Mr McDonald. I am grateful to Mr Baker for giving way. Over the | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
summer I wrote to Mr Baker asking him if he's Labour's capital | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
investment spokesperson would back the calls from the Scottish | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
Government for shovel-ready projects to be brought forward by | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
the UK Government. To date I have received no reply. Perhaps he'd | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
like to give me the answer. didn't get a letter but what I | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
would say to him is keep trying, Mark. Eventually you'll get. There | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
persistence will pay off! You shouldn't be too disappointed about | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
today. But if I don't... Order. I don't get a letter, I really | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
can't - can't reply to it, so yesterday - so we find out, you | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
know, in terms of the construction and capital investment - should be | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
taking place, we find out today that on the basis of a draft report, | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
the budget for the Edinburgh to Glasgow improvement plan was cut by | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
�350 million. In Aberdeen our energy sector requires 120,000 new | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
recruits. Where's the plan to deal with that crucial issue for the | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
economy not just of ander gien, Scotland? The report from Price- | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
Waterhouse Cooper is for an energy academy at the same time as the SNP | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
college budgets. They are withdrawing support for new | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
development in the City. In doing so, failing Aberdeen again. No. In | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
the last Parliament we were told that the overarching purpose of | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
this Government was economic growth, and to emphasise this point, it was | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
referred to as "the purpose" with a capital T and a capital P, but this | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
debate has shown that this is a Government with its eye all the | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
ball of the economy and whose purpose now is solely preparation | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
with a capital S. We'll engage with the sustainable procurement bill, | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
but again and again Mr Neil told us he couldn't take the action we need | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
on procurement because of the European Union. The action we need | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
to ensure - through the use of community benefit clauses in | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
creating smaller contracts we give small and medium-sized enterprises | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
in Scotland batter chance from benefiting from public sector | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
investment and through that our growing economy. Far if blocking | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
such action the EU is proposing a directive which state contracting | :20:40. | :20:48. | |
authorities should be able to allow contracting -- to divide lots. Why | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
aren't the Scottish Government doing this already? This doesn't | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
need a bill? Why in fact are they still doing the opposite and | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
creating contracts so big, only big business can bid for them? | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
Yesterday the First Minister said we'll put - I'd better take it. | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
thank the member for taking the intervention. Can I just point out | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
to him - and let me confuse him with some facts. 75% of all the | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
contracts let through the Scottish Government's porthole go to small | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
and medium-sized enterprises. Neil never lets the facts get in | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
the way or confuses him. I'll refer him to the Jimmy Reid Foundation | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
report which contradicts many of the statements he's made on | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
procurement. Yesterday the First Minister said we'll put community | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
benefit clauses into every public sector contract. The question is | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
why hasn't that been done already because unfortunately on the Forth | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
replacement crossing the shipping firms have already lost out. We | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
also know how important to the economy our construction - and to | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
our construction industry new housing is, yet the last budget | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
slashed housing investment by �86 million. The vaunted housing bill | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
in this programme is conspicuous by its absence. It's not good enough | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
to say this will all be sorted out after separation, as if that were | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
free us from the Tory Government when the SNP's proposal on monetary | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
policy is future UK governments of whatever political complexion will | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
still make key decisions on our economy with zero influence from | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
Ministers of Scotland. A final moment. Separation is their | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
suggestion, but it's no solution. This programme of bills and the | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
events of today show this administration has its eye well and | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
truly off the ball when it comes to taking the action we need to - | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
Scotland to growth. In conclusion that's why we need to get beyond | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
the process of the referendum and get on with making - when Scotland | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
has decided to making its reputation in the UK we can all get | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
on with what we're doing in this Parliament, delivering for the | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
people. It's Scotland's version of the Queen's Speech, Alex Salmond | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
set out his priorities for the year ahead at Holyrood yesterday. Let's | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
speak to Professor John Curtice once again. Let's go through some | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
of the main themes. What shined out yeat you when Mr Salmond was | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
setting out his priorities? In the past I have been critical of their | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
programmes, looking rather liefgt even last year when they had a | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
majority it wasn't clear what they were doing with it. In truth, | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
despite the Unionists coming up with the rather obvious argument, | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
they're just interested in independence and nothing else, | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
actually, this looks quite a substantial legislative programme. | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
There is of course same-sex marriage which undoubtedly is the | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
one thing that's going to attract headlines. That's one of the things | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
Alex Salmond was able to wrap up into a reasonably coherent | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
narrative which was the idea of creating a fairer Scotland but | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
there are other bills, health and social care integration - one of | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
the long-standing problems that's beset governments north and south | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
of the border of how do we deal with somebody who is in hospital, | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
and are they going to need social care to get them out of hospital - | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
how do we achieve greater coordination of those two | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
resources? There is now a bill to see if that nut can finally be | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
cracked. There are also two very important bills that actually pave | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
the way for the Scottish Parliament becoming for the first time in its | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
life something of a significant fax-raising body in the | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
implementation of a new Scotland act. One is going to pave the way | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
for the abolition of stamp duty north of the border in 2014 and is | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
replaced with a new land transaction tax. There is also | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
legislation to deal with - (Indiscernible) We're starting to | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
see the first inkling of the Parliament starting to deal with | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
what'll be its new tax responsibilities in 2015. Of course, | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
some of the programme is defenceive. You have heard Richard Baker | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
criticising procurement, and the legislative programme contains | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
legislation to try to insulate the Government against some of that. It | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
undoubtedly is defensive but I think in truth, just taking those | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
four or five bills I have mentioned, that is quite a substantial | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
programme and does indicate the Scottish Government is using the | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
existing devolved powers to make what may well be some important | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
changes for Scotland with some impact down the track. A big theme | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
in Joanne's speech yesterday when she was criticising the package of | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
measures is you don't need legislation to do some of this, | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
such as the Children and Young People Bill which guarantees 600 | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
free hours of nursery care. She says that can be done at the stroke | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
of a pen. Do you think the Government do need legislation? | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
Certainly with the Health and Social Care Integration, that is an | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
issue for debate. This Government and previous ones have tried the | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
achieve coordination through the coordination of health partnerships | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
and creating incentives to ensure that the two - NHS and local | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
authorities responsible for social - share their budgets. The | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
consensus is that's not happened. This will provide a legal basis | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
that'll require both the NHS and local authorities to share their | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
budgets in these two areas, so arguably past experience has | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
suggested trying to do it without legislation has not been sufficient. | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
This will now do it. But certainly, one needs to bear in mind - | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
certainly a lot of Government action doesn't necessarily require | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
legislation. We saw an important announcement during the summer | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
recess about funding for students that didn't require legislation. | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
Yes, it's always easy to focus too much on a legislative programme. In | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
truth, the Government has actually made it rather more difficult for | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
the opposition to say all you're going to do is the referendum and | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
nothing else - we might have expected. I think probably this in | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
fact is the most substantial SNP legislative programme since they | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
first came into Parliament in 2007. Thank you. Back with you later. | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
Let's head to the Garden Lobby in Holyrood and pick up on those | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
issues with Annabelle Using and Murdo Fraser from the Scottish | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
Conservatives. Thank you very much for joining us. Annabelle, were you | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
waiting for the call from the First Minister there? A big reshuffle | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
from Labour this afternoon. What about - the Liberal Democrats are | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
saying that Nicola Sturgeon is the Minister for Independent. Is that | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
right? Good afternoon. What happened today was that with Nicola | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
Sturgeon being switched to the portfolio of capital investment | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
infrastructure, we have seen the signal from the SNP Scottish | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
Government of the importance that this Government places on economic | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
recovery. I think everybody would accept that Nicola has done a | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
fantastic job as Health Secretary. I believe she has been the longest- | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
serving Health Secretary since the reconvening of the Scottish | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
Parliament in 1999. She's done a fantastic job. I am sure these | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
gentlemen will wish to recognise the fantastic job she's done. Of | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
course, with her move to the investment and capital | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
infrastructure portfolio, we're signalling the importance we place | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
on the economic recovery. She brings with her, of course, the | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
weight Deputy First Minister's office, so I think it's a very | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
important shift, and I'm sure she'll be seeking to tackle her new | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
portfolio with the same vim and vigour and excellence with which | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
she tackled the health portfolio. Isn't it a cynical move to lay | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
those concerns on the gentleman beside you that you just focus on | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
independence and not the economy? You're trying to intertwine these | :28:37. | :28:44. | |
issues to make it look like you're trying to focus on economy as much | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
as independence? As you heard in your interview with Professor John | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
Curtice that argument is a bit tired now. We saw yesterday with | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
the very ambitious legislative programme - some 15 bills over the | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
next year or so - I think it was a great signal to the people in this | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
country that we in the SNP and the SNP Government are determined to | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
make an improvement in the lives of our citizens and indeed to | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
transform our country, and of course the way we will do that is | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
by voting Yes in the independence referendum in 2014. Murdo Fraser | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
from the Conservatives, it looks like the SNP are putting forward | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
quite a coherent argument there intertwining the economy and | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
independence and saying, if you want Scotland to prosper, you need | :29:24. | :29:34. | |
:29:34. | :29:41. | ||
independence. We're folkUsing on It tells its own story that a | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
minister has been moved from the Health Secretary position to | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
looking at independence. Nicola Sturgeon has been freed up from the | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
responsibility of looking after the NHS to get her more time to fight | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
the campaign for Scottish independence, that is what this is | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
about. Be in no doubt that the SNP are obsessed with a single aim | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
which is getting independence from the rest of the UK. They are now | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
targeted on that one objective and nothing else matters to them one | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
little bit. Your colleague will be meeting with Nicola Sturgeon | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
tomorrow. How close are we to meeting an agreement on the | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
referendum? I would hope that we are pretty close. I do not think | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
that the UK Government are stumbling block to this. They have | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
said that what Alex Salmond needs to do is just follow what he said | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
in his manifesto which is bring forward plans for at a single | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
question referendum whereby the people of Scotland can vote yes or | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
No to whether Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom. If he is | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
prepared to do that then there will be no problem at all in those they | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
go issues being granted. We need to get us all the West and the sooner | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
we can get over it and focus on real issues are better it will be. | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
Lewis Macdonald from Labour it yesterday said that the SNP | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
administration was tired and flagging. Do you not think that | :31:10. | :31:17. | |
this shows a little bit of impetus? I think it was a tired and flagging | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
legislative programme. I think that it shows something that there | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
deputy first minister has been moved away from the National Health | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
Service and has been given to jobs. When Alex Salmond said in | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
parliament yesterday that the two most important things for the | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
Scottish economy were Scottish referendum and then procurement of | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
those things are at very important they have both been given to the | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
same person. That either means that there is a dearth of ministerial | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
talent or it means that Nicola Sturgeon will be expected to focus | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
either on independence or at on construction and that the other | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
jobs will not be done to the full effect. I think I know which one is | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
going to be the most important. We have already seen a �100 million | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
cut in the Budget since the SNP returned last year. I would be | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
pessimistic indeed about the prospects for the housing budget | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
and the infrastructure when it Nicola Sturgeon is going to spend | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
most of the next two years fighting the referendum campaign. I think | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
they argue it is a twin-track approach. Yesterday Alex Salmond | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
was copied door stop to the referendums. Now we hear John | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
Swinney talking about the end game, do you not think we're looking at | :32:33. | :32:40. | |
the SNP coming soon agreement with the UK Government? I sincerely hope | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
so. Barely a referendum that is what with the consent of all | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
parties and in an understood way as one that will hold whereas a | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
referendum which is not negotiated in advance will have no authority. | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
It is important that that happens. But there is no reason why this | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
Bell and his referendum could not have gone through Parliament in | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
months rather than years and we would have that decision 12 months | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
from now it rather than in two years' time. Annabelle Ewing we're | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
talking about a twin-track approach you at this inside line. When are | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
we going to come to an agreement with the UK Government and what | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
detail will there be in that? What do the SNP actually want? I think | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
it is clear it that a discussions are ongoing with the UK Government | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
and that is the proper way to conduct business, it those | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
discussions will continue. It will come as no surprise that everybody | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
in the SNP supports the right of Scotland to beat at normal country | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
and have the normal rights to independence. I have yet to see the | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
bell and we await the analysis of the extremely successful | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
consultation exercise that had been launched. There are some 26,000 | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
responses to be analysed. It is quite right and proper that those | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
responses are analysed carefully and with due time and consideration | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
and once that has been done we will all be clear as to the way forward. | :34:12. | :34:21. | |
Thank you very much. Let us turn to the issue of the | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
economy which dominated Prime Minister's Questions. The Labour | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
leader Ed Miliband accused the Government of sticking with the | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
economic approach that had failed spectacularly. David Cameron insist | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
that thick economy was rebalancing and that the Government would | :34:36. | :34:43. | |
deliver for the Scottish people. He mentions they have reshuffle and | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
it is good to see the Chancellor still in his place. I have to say | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
to the Prime Minister that he has come to an ingenious solution to | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
their issue of his part in Chancellor, he is appointed another | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
one what the former justice secretary, it is a job share, we | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
will see how they get on. And do not know if he remembers that a | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
year ago he published his national infrastructure plan alongside the | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
Autumn Statement. He said at the time of that plan it was an all out | :35:14. | :35:20. | |
mission to unlock the system. Can he tell us one year on of the road- | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
building project announced in that plan, how many have actually | :35:24. | :35:31. | |
started? I am glad he mentioned the issue of chances because of course | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
I have my first choice as Chancellor and he has his third | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
choice as shadow chancellor. Apparently he still has to bring in | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
the coffee every morning. That is just how assertive and which their | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
leader of the opposition really is. About infrastructure, he asks about | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
infrastructure, if you look at what is planned by this Government | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
between 2010 and 2015, we will be investing �250 billion in | :36:05. | :36:12. | |
infrastructure which compares with just �113 billion between at 2005 | :36:12. | :36:19. | |
and 2010. He does not have a clue. Over the last two-and-a-half years | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
we have seen announcements on other structures Dale and announcements | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
on housing and planning failed. What is the reason for this | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
economic failure? The reason is has fundamental economic approach is | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
wrong. After the summer we now know that his whole two-and-a-half years | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
as Prime Minister has not seen the British economy grow at all. By | :36:42. | :36:49. | |
does not he admitted? The real problem is this, plan a has | :36:49. | :36:56. | |
spectacularly failed. Let me tell what has happened in our economy, | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
you are seen the private sector growing and expanding. There are | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
900,000 more people employed in the private sector then there were two | :37:03. | :37:10. | |
years ago. We're now an exporter of cars and motor of the coals for the | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
first thing since the 1970s. -- of vehicles. Our economy as | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
rebalancing and that is what is happening and there is growth in | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
the private sector, our exports to China at up and so are they to | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
India and Russia. That is what is happening, it is a hard and | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
difficult road that we will stick to that road because we will | :37:33. | :37:40. | |
deliver for the British economy. Has the Prime Minister seen today | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
that there was a report saying that Aberdeen needs to recruit 120,000 | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
skilled people in the next ten years if we are to deliver our | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
capacity in the global energy economy? Well the Government take | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
steps to ensure that an energy Academy and infrastructure and | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
training is put in place so that we can deliver growth for the United | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
Kingdom? About my Right Honourable Friend raises a very important | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
point which is that the growth of the economy around Aberdeen at | :38:08. | :38:15. | |
linked to North Sea oil has been successful. I want to see that took | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
it -- I want to see that expand and I will speak to and later at to see | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
what he can advise. We now go across to College Green | :38:25. | :38:33. | |
to our correspondent. We have had to reshuffles already. | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
They are like buses, aren't they? To come along within a couple of | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
days after Europe waited for readers. At see-sawed from Prime | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
Minister's questions the whole idea that something must be done it took | :38:47. | :38:54. | |
get something moving again it has been key. We are now joined to | :38:54. | :39:01. | |
discuss that issue. We heard you there at Prime | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
Minister's Question Time saying that unless we get right people | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
trained we will not be able to take a bandage of the economy. More | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
broadly on the reshuffle itself, are you now confident that the | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
right people and the right positions to get the economy | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
moving? To be honest I do not know because people have been put into | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
jobs to do not have a track record necessarily in that area. We will | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
have to see. The point I would make his, the shovels do not really | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
matter to the outside world. What matters is, do they make their | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
Government function better? The Prime Minister says he has put | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
people in that will deliver on the policies already agreed. As a | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
coalition partner at that comforts me because we are in a coalition | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
and we need people to deliver on the agreement we have up to get the | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
economy moving. Their own view is that you cannot judge a reshuffle | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
the day after you have to judge it 12 months after. It is refreshing | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
to hear you say you do not know. It does raise the question as to why | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
they were not in these positions before? But do not think that is | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
the case. Governments always need to refresh. You do not want to | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
teach people too often though. People do need a couple of years to | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
do a job properly. I think it is perfectly reasonable but people get | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
over excited about reshuffles. Quite rightly the Government will | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
be judged in the end on whether it can deliver growth. The background | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
is not where we would wish it to be although it is better than many of | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
our it competitors. Inflation is coming down and interest rates are | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
extremely low. I was picking get confidence and investment and the | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
construction industry going then we will not get growth. That is what | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
we are concentrating on and tried to deliver. | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
It is not necessarily the people and the positions, it is what they | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
do that is important. Have you seen anything that might make you think | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
that this coalition Government is addressing these problems in the | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
last 24 hours? It is in no change reshuffle and there will be no | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
change in the economy. The Prime Minister set up a sub-committee of | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
the Cabinet today to remove the abstractions to economic recovery. | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
If he wanted to do that then he should have sacked as Chancellor | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
and, with the new policy today on growth and on spending and on the | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
rest. You have lots of organisations all saying that | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
austerity has failed. For every �2 of cuts this Government is making | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
there is only �1 coming of their deficit. It is failing on its own | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
terms, we need a new plan for jobs and growth today. | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
Would you agree that we now need a second plan? Absolutely, what we're | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
that a reshuffle of what we needed was a rethink on economic policy. | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
At Prime Minister's Questions today he was challenged on three of the | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
things that he said last time that he produced a programme for growth, | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
there was no growth, we're in a double-dip recession. The people | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
out there that are unemployed will be gobsmacked in this UK reshuffle. | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
The one person that it his job was the Chancellor who was a major | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
roadblock to the kind of policies we need to actually kicks that | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
their economy again. The Archdruid from this Government | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
has always been that it year marks out a credit card it does not do | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
any good to try to spend even more on that credit card. That is as | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
simple soundbite and commonsense would say do not borrow when you | :42:29. | :42:35. | |
have Max doubt. But if you tell Rose and stimulus NEC the crushing | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
impact that we have seen on the construction sector. We need to | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
shove already projects with direct capital investment. It is most | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
effective and efficient thing that any Government can do to deliver | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
growth and get the economy moving again. | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
The Government accepts that and is not wanting to not do that, they | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
just do not want to borrow to do it, we want to report that the packages | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
we have. We're looking at their low credit rating to get underwriting | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
into private sector projects which will move forward in the next year | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
or so. If you start borrowing then interest rates go up. | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
They is an argument that as the markets take fright it does not | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
matter what else you were doing. If you're fighting the markets you | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
will never be able to have gross. What you see in America and Japan | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
is lower interest rates as well. All countries that can bring their | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
own currency have low long-term interest rates at the moment that | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
is the fact, but we have weak growth in Britain because we have | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
Business Supplies is that are going to know productive use in the | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
economy at all. Alice the Government sort that out and sorts | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
out the shortage of demand then the crisis of under employment with | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
250,000 people in Scotland desperate for full-time work that | :43:51. | :43:58. | |
cannot get it, unless you address the issue of wages that are falling | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
quarter by quarter, they will not address the weaknesses in the | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
economy. I am not denying that this is a serious situation and people | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
are suffering. What I reject is that this quick fix idea with | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
spending and borrowing will solve the problem. Have you as you will | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
make it works. I'd really have to look at spending and it could be | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
more constructive discussion between the parties on that. You | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
cannot borrow your way to growth. No one wants to see borrowing rise | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
for ever and everyone knows the deficit must be tackled. But we | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
will not be able to tackle the deficit and eventually that it is | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
the economy continues to flat line and we have no growth. Right now | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
because there is stagnation in the global economy, the UK Government | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
is to use the tools it has which is investment in shovel ready projects | :44:53. | :45:03. | |
:45:03. | :45:06. | ||
to kick-start the economy and the Willie Rennie, final word to you - | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
will anything the Government has proposed, will it, as you say, | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
solve that problem of lack of demand? It won't because we have a | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
perfect storm where there is massive unemployment. There is | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
productive labour that is not being properly utilised in the economy, | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
real wages falling and the construction and manufacturing | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
sectors in crisis. Unless the Government comes up with a plan | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
that is different on spending and borrowing, you'll not address that | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
fundamental weakness in the economy. Thank you very much. | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
I think, Andrew, as you get a flavour there that despite what | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
happens with the personalities in Government reshuffles, as our | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
colleagues have been saying here, it is the economy that is going to | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
remain the important political issue at Westminster. David Porter | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
at Westminster, thank you very much. Let's head back to Holyrood for | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
more on the mini-reshuffle in the Scottish Government and also the | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
legislative programme that was announced yesterday. I am joined by | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
Willie Rennie, the leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats and | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
Patrick Harvie, the co-convener of the Scottish Greens. Good afternoon, | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining me. Patrick Harvie, as | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
you're an ardent Nationalist and an ardent supporter of independence | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
joining Mr Salmond and the campaign states you must we can Nicola | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
Sturgeon taking this role in the fight for independence? I think | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
Nicola will take on that job with great enthusiasm. I have to say I | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
am very much a supporter of independence but not a Nationalist. | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
You don't have to be a Nationalist to have a view about where the | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
right level of Sovereignty should like, whether that's people who | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
support the UK or people who support Scottish independence, so | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
I'm hoping that the programme for Government starts to articulate | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
some of the ideas about the kind of independent Scotland we could be. | :46:50. | :46:57. | |
An issue that Willie and I probably agree strong loin, the same-sex | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
marriage, does start to articulate. It says we want to be an inclusive | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
Scotland. There are other opportunities to start talking | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
about the different kinds of economy we can have in Scotland, a | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
different kind of taxation and welfare system we could have in a | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
independent Scotland. I think if we can project that, what we can | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
achieve for our country with independence, then all parties can | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
contribute to that and hopefully the people of Scotland will make | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
the best informed decision they can in 2014. At the moment, the Holy | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
Grail for politicians is the search for economic growth, and Nicola | :47:27. | :47:34. | |
Sturgeon has been tasked with trying to get that going, but you | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
took a rather different view in economic growth, don't you? Do you | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
see economic growth as always a good thing? Economic growth can be | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
a good and a negative thing, and it's port if we think about | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
economic recovery to ask what does recovery mean? That to me doesn't | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
just mean the trying to reanimate the corpse of the economy that just | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
collapsed, trying to refloat a failed economic model. It means | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
taking a view about the equality between people this Scotland in | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
society. It means taking a view about sustainability and a low- | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
carbon economy. These things matter at least as much as just GDP. GDP | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
tells you how much money is swilling around the economy. It | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
doesn't tell you whether it's being generated in a way that's divisive | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
or improves solidarity and sustainability in society, so we | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
take a very different view about what economic recovery means, and | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
we'll bring some of those debates into the chamber I hope in the next | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
few weeks and months. You have put out a statement this afternoon | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
saying Nicola Sturgeon is the Minister for Independence, but do | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
you not admit perhaps the SNP have come up with quite a good idea here | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
- they're marrying the twin themes of the economy and independence? | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
They see the two as inextricably linked, and that's what they're | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
doing. They have a real focus on the economy and not just | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
independence. When the SNP went to the polls in May 2011, they said | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
people - their focus was going to be on running the country. They got | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
re-elected on the basis of Alex Salmond saying do no bad. Their | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
focus has shifted from running the country to actually trying to run | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
and win the referendum. We're seeing an increasing number of | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
civil servants, increasing resources from the Civil Service | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
being used to win the SNP's ambition of independence. I think | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
we'll suffer as a result, because the focus will move away from that. | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
This is about running the country in one of the most difficult times | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
in our history, and all we see is them running the referendum. I | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
think that's a bad thing for Scotland. Do you not see their | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
argument? They argue obviously they believe that independence is the | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
only way that you can achieve proper economic growth. Do you not | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
see their point in their argument? If that was the case, why are they | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
not having the referendum now? If they think the dead hand of | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
Westminster is so debilitating, is having such a crippling effect on | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
Scotland, why are they waiting another two years from now - three | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
years from when they were elected? This is not a Government that | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
really believes in its own policy. They're redefining it. They're | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
trying to include bits of the British state they did not support. | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
They detest. This is a Government that's actually afraid, that's | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
trying to work out ways of tricking people into supporting independence, | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
and I think we should have nothing of it. They may not be trying to | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
trick people. We have been speaking to the SNP already today, but | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
looking at the agreement from the UK Government, how is that | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
progressing? And obviously the SNP have what they want to get out of | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
the referendum - their opinions and what they want to get out of it, | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
and the UK Government have their opinions, so how close are we to | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
coming to an agreement there, do you think? I'm hoping we're going | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
to get an agreement quickly and from my discussions with my | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
colleagues at Westminster, the signs are good. We will get a | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
referendum that is a single question that actually sorts out | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
the nature of the question, the franchise but also the timing, and | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
I think the sooner we can get on with the details of the debate - | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
some of the issues Patrick was raising about what's Scotland going | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
to look like - the defence system, international relations - all these | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
things are important. I believe Britain gives us a huge platform, a | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
great platform on which to launch Scotland to the world. Obviously, | :51:10. | :51:16. | |
the SNP are more interested in splitting us off. Thank you both | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
very much for joining me. Let's get some more thoughts in the | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
company of our political commentator for the afternoon, | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
Professor John Curtice. Speaking to everyone this afternoon we do get | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
that impression we're heading towards some kind of agreement on | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
the referendum, don't we? It does sound as though we're heading | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
towards some sort of agreement. Certainly, everybody seems to be | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
putting that sort of mood music forward. The only form of agreement | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
one can envisage is one in which there is only a single question | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
rather than two questions. Of course, it raises an interesting | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
question about how the SNP might necessarily approach that. Will | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
they say, well, at the end of the day, our consultation said that's | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
really what people wanted and was always their first preference, so | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
we're happy with it? Or will they want to say, look, actually, we | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
really wanted to have two questions. This is what our consultation was | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
indicating, but Westminster aren't stopping us, and to use that as an | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
indication to say to people, look, if you really want Scotland to be | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
autonomous and to earn its own tax and welfare benefits, the only | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
package on offer is independence. Therefore, that's what you're going | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
to have to vote for - it will be very interesting to see how the SNP | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
is going to react to and spin an agreement with the UK Government if | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
indeed an agreement is achieved. Briefly, the red lines Willie | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
Rennie was talking about, the franchise, the two questions... | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
only red lines between the two governments according to the inside | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
information seems to be one question versus two. The UK | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
Government might be willing to concede on the franchise, difficult | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
though it is in practise to get 16 votes. The dates have long since | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
been forgotten about. The only question really at the heart here | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
is one question or two? The date is the only thing we're unsure of. | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
Indeed. If it's an agreement between the two governments, one | :53:09. | :53:17. | |
presumes it will be an order that'll allow the Holyrood to run | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
this between now and 2013. Here's a I flavour of what the First | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
Minister had to say about the new team as he entered Parliament | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
earlier. I am in the fortunate position - perhaps in contrast to | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
the Prime Minister - I have a range of talented people and a limited | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
number of posts to put them in, but I am very happy with the team I | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
have got to take Scotland forward. The First Minister there. Now we | :53:47. | :53:54. | |
can cross back to the Garden Lobby where we're joined by two | :53:54. | :53:55. | |
parliamentary journalists, Alan Cochrane, the Telegraph's Scottish | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
Editor and Robbie Dinwoodie, the Chief Scottish Political | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
Correspondent from the Herald. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
joining me. First to you, Alan. Did the Lobby know this was going to | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
happen? Did it come as a bit of a surprise? A big surprise. The only | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
one who knew that Bruce Crawford had a sad summer - well, it took us | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
- me by surprise, anyway, that he decided to retire from the game | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
altogether, and the bigger surprise, of course is Alex Salmond has put | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
Nicola Sturgeon into this front- line role. It changes the tempo and | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
perhaps the style of the debate now now that Nicola is doing it. Robbie, | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
do you think Alan is speaking about changing the tempo and style - do | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
you think she has been put in there to really fight the Scottish | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
Government's corner with the UK Government? Absolutely - not that I | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
think Bruce Crawford wasn't doing that anyway. Everyone admires the | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
job he did keeping the minority administration together. Everyone | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
knows how well he negotiated in terms of the referendum deal, but | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
Nicola will bring something new to it, something fresh to it. She's | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
already on the board of the Scotland campaign. So I think in | :55:03. | :55:10. | |
the unfortunate loss of Bruce Crawford an opportunity has arisen, | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
and that's why Nicola's role has been so expanded. I suppose now she | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
has been divested of the controversial same-sex marriage | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
legislation, which will help. She'll be able to fly away from | :55:22. | :55:29. | |
that and won't be hindered by that. Also, Alex Neil has the pick that | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
up along with the responsibility for the biggest single subject | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
brief there is. The Health Service is a massive job, and they have put | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
a bruiser and a tough man into that job. Do you think we could still | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
see health coming up to trip up the Scottish Government in the next | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
couple of years? Sorry. I think health is an important one. But I | :55:50. | :55:56. | |
think everyone's minds, if you don't mind me saying so, is focused | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
on, will Nicola sell the jerseys? There there be a change in the | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
attitude towards negotiations? As John was saying a moment ago, is | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
there now going to be not so much a deal as a surrender by the | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
Nationalists from two questions to one? That's the big question, the | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
only question I am interested in, and I suspect most people in here. | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
We have a couple new faces, Joe Fitzpatrick, parliamentary business | :56:21. | :56:31. | |
manager - a bit of a technocrat, I spoke, but Hmu za Yousef, as well, | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
a well-known face. That's good move for the minority community, but we | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
have another minority community in Joe Fitzpatrick from Dundee coming | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
in. Robbie Dinwoodie, we have the discussion going on tomorrow | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
between Nicola Sturgeon and David Mundel. I looks like these | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
discussions are really hotting up, doesn't it? She's pitched straight | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
into the negotiations. The point is that I think at the end of the day | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
there was always only going to be a straight yes-no question. It's just | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
that the SNP want to be able to point their finger at Westminster | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
for denying the option. And Alan Cochrane, we're coming up to | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
conference time, of course, the SNP conference in mid-October. Do you | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
think Alex Salmond really needs to have a full package ready to | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
present to the troops at conference time when it comes to the | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
referendum? I don't think the Nationalist activists - the members | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
- are at all interested in two questions. Going back to the | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
conference last year, most of them wanted one question. I think Nicola | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
Sturgeon is of that view on that wing of the party, and I think that | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
if there is to be one question, it will be seen as a victory for the | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
activists in the SNP, but it is a significant concession, retreat by | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
Alex Salmond. Robbie Dinwoodie, do you think it's a significant | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
concession by Alex Salmond if they do have one question, perhaps?S | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
that two-question argument not just been a bit of an extra discussion | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
on the side? No, I think it has been a tactic. I think it has been | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
a fight for the middle ground. People who want more devolution but | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
not independence - the question, once it crystallises, which way | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
will they go? I think that's the battle now. Alan, what about you? | :58:13. | :58:19. | |
This is just the new spin. They said we never wanted two questions | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
in the first place but of course they did. Now they know they're not | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
going to get them, they're pretending they didn't want them. | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
It's rubbish. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining me. My thanks | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
to Professor John Curtice, who has been with me in the studio for the | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
afternoon. Eaths that's all we have time for | :58:38. | :58:43. |