08/02/2012 Politics Scotland

Hello. Welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up, the last minute wheeling

and dealing over the Budget. Who has won the intense competition for

more cash? I am inside Holyrood to bring you

the late latest. Expect the Budget any minute now.

The Government's spending plans are expected to go through Parliament.

John Swinney insist he is keen to build a consensus around this

Budget. With me throughout the programme

tonne, the economist John McLaren and Brian Taylor is in hooly road.

-- Holyrood. What do you think the finance

secretary is trying to do with the Budget? There is a couple of things

he is trying to do if the rumours are correct that have been in the

media. He is trying to soften the blow to those who got a harsh deal

in September in the Spending Review so that is areas like further

education, social housing and which received large cuts. He is trying

to give the impression perhaps through giving more money to

capital that this will be a Budget for growth, but really the size of

the extra money he has got as a result of what happened in the UK

Autumn Statement means there won't be a lot of extra money around. It

will be who gets the crumbs on the table which have come through

recently. Brian, what do you expect to hear

in terms of the last minute negotiations going on with the

opposition parties? As John billed, more money for colleges and for

student support and to colleges, but let's be be clear, it is more

money, but it is more money to mitigate the cuts that were in the

September 2021 statement. I think more money for housing to stimulate

the economy again, it is mitigating cuts. I think also a demand on

sustainable transport, cycle ways and walkways. These were issues

discussed with the opposition parties. Despite the issues being

discussed, despite a phone round this morning from Mr Swinney's

office to tempt the opposition parties on board, I don't think buy

of them are buying. I don't think any will vote for the Budget when

it comes to it tonight. Will that matter? Mr Swinney, Alex Salmond

have a majority here in the chamber up the stairs. But it matters in

terms of projection, John Swinney was hoping to get one or more

opposition on board. It projects an idea, "We are all in this

together." Not a phrase Mr Swinney will use directly. It conveys the

sense that is not just an SNP Budget, but it is Holyrood's Budget

in difficult circumstances. Is there broad agreement that the

emphasis on fiscal stimulus is the right way to go compared with what

is happening in Westminster? That is contested. I think you would

hear the Conservatives and in particular the Liberal Democrats,

of course, who are opposition parties here, but are the coalition

Government at Westminster. They would contend that the approach

being taken by the UK Government is reasonable and has a reasonable

balance between austerity and growth. Mr Swinney desents from

that and -- descents and he says he is trying to shape the Budget

within the tight constraints, but those are exceptionally tight

constraints indeed. We are talking about 10% real terms cut over the

years up to 2015. Within that, it is juggling frankly by comparison

with the extent of the constraint required.

Brian, we understand the finance secretary will be speaking in under

a minute so they will cross to the chamber then. Until then, how much

room for manoeuvre does he have realistically if he wants to have a

distinctive fiscal policy in Scotland? He has got very well

movement. I am sorry, but we will come to

that. I understand the finance secretary is on his feet in the

chamber. Let's cross to the chamber Well, further further ado, he is

talking about the challenges of the economic climate. We will cross now

And taking direct action to tackle unemployment in particular

unemployment amongst young people. I am committed to building

consensus for the measures in this Budget. I have listened to the

representations made by others since September. I remind the

chamber in taking forward our approach, we must deal with a

landscape that has seen the United Kingdom Government make cuts in

Scotland's Budget, including the removal of the �6.7 billion in real

terms from the capital Budget over the four years of this Spending

Review period. What Is the cash terms cut between

11 11/12 and 13/13? We are including �6.7 billion in real

terms from our capital Budget in four years and the importance of

that point is putting into context the decisions the United Kingdom

Government made in November which have an effect on our Budget

statement. We have lost �6.7 billion in real terms and the UK

Government has replaced about �137 million in 2011 /12 and �154 for

the period 2014/15, they are small in comparison to the cuts we face

this year and in the years ahead. I will confirm today how I intend to

provide additionals resources in the Government's Budget. I am

pleased to announce substantialal additional funding across our

investment programme including in the key areas of housing, digital

infrastructure and transport. The Spending Review sets out plans for

completing 30,000 affordable homes in the life of the Parliament

through a mix of conventional capital investment and other

funding models. We are on track to meet our target, but I confirm

today that in total we will provide additional support to the housing

sector, valued at �97 million over four years. Most of this will go

into our programme for subsidising new supply, increasing the number

of homes we can deliver and ensuring we meet needs across the

country. This support... Does that mean you will meet the target to

deliver 6,000 rented homes this year? The Government has set out

plans to complete 30,000 affordable homes and that will be delivered by

additional support made up additional �10 million of funding

that we have confirmed in this financial year which will

accelerate expenditure on council house building and an additional

�45 million for the aforrable housing budget over the period

2012/13 to 2013/14 and �42 million to fund loans and equity investment,

including the expansion of shared equity schemes and the housing loan

fund. The stra tee jibg -- tra -- tra stee yibg priorities. The

availability of broadband connectivity is critical to

Scotland's future. I confirm additional support worth �78

million over three -- �68 million over three years which will support

our commitment to delivering future-proof infrastructure that

will deliver digital connectity across Scotland by 2020. We aim to

have have broadband to 95% of premises by 2015.

Whilst our broadband targets apply to all of Scotland, the greatest

impact will be felt in those areas with significant rural populations

as investment will focus on places where it is uneconomic for the

market to deliver without sub sidity. A strong partnership

approach is essential. I have agreed additional funding for

digital funding which will be used to support the rollout of rural

broadband. A third key driver of growth is the

quality of our road network. I confirm today additional funding of

�72 million over three years for a number roads projects, improving

the relict and the safety -- reliability and the safety of the

network. These include the A 37 and design works for dualling off the

I also confirm today additional funding for sustainable and active

travel worth �13 million over three years. This will focus on cycling

and walking infrastructure and the contribution it can make in

supporting model shift. I am grateful to the Cabinet

Secretary. He talks about the additional �73 million on road

projects and the diditional -- additional money on travel. The

SNP's manifesto commitment was to increase the travel travel budget

spent on sustainable and active travel. Given the cuts are deeper

and the increases greater on the roads budget, how is that

commitment coming along? You will see an increase in sustainable

travel of �13 million over three years and what we will find out

from ministers in the course of this week, is further details on

the allocations made through the third year of the Few ture --

Future Transport Fund which will be directed towards supporting model

shift into the bargain. The infrastructure investment plan

highlights the importance of maintaining our social

infrastructure in Scotland. I confirm today that �60 million in

capital spending will be applied to increase capital allocations to NHS

boards to help meet this demand. The benefits of this investment

will be felt by staff and patients and it will also create additional

opportunities for small and medium sized enterprises across Scotland

in the field of health maintenance and health infrastructure.

Recognising the vital role that local authorities play in

capital funding of �20 million for the Scottish Prison Service

targeted towards the needs of Scotland's female prison population.

Few can have missed the positive impacts at the National Museum of

Scotland and the national portrait gallery. I confirm additional �5

million over three years for the culture portfolio. Finally I

announce an Asset Management fund to be administered by the Scottish

Futures Trust. Together these announcements

represent additional capital investment of around �380 million

over three years, supporting infrastructure, development and

jobs the length and breadth of Scotland. I will focus the

remainder of my comments today on revenue spending and two issues of

importance, our approach to business rates, including the

public health supplement and employability. We are committed to

matching the rates poundage in England. I said we would match the

poundage in England and confirm today that the business supplement

rate will match the English rate of 0.8 pence. I would like to confirm

the details of the public health supplement which will come into

force in April 2012, for only the largest retail prornts that sell --

property that sell alcohol and tobacco. Increased preventive

spending is key to our public frs public services. I believe

Parliament is agreed. I think it is reasonable to boost preventive

spending with additional resource where we can. We propose the

introduction of the public health supplement. It is important to put

this measure in its wider context. 240 retail premise, 0.1% of

business premise will pay more, with 63% of retail premise, well

over 30 shops paying 0% or reduced business rates as part of the most

generous relief package in the United Kingdom. Since we published

our proposals I have held constructive discussions with

retailers. I have reflected on the points they have raised and within

the constraints of delivering a balanced Budget, I confirm today

that I will reduce the amount paid by individual retailers and limit

the length of time that the supplement will apply to the next

three years. This will have the overall effect,

the estimated income generated by the public health supplement will

reduce by �15 million, to �95 million over the flee year period

to -- three year period to 2015, this reduction will be off set in

full by the income generated through our matching of the English

large business supplement. Turning To employability. The

Spending Review contains measures that supported people into

employment, including through the skills and training opportunities

we provide and through higher and We are already working with the

sector to make necessary reforms, including through the new �15

million college transfer fund. We allocated an additional �5 million

last week to support employability and shivers through the college

sector. In recent weeks we have announced a �20 million of new

investment in the college sector. We are continuing the education

maintenance alliance, -- allowance unlike the UK Government. We have

increased funding for student support by 25% since 2006/7. A

record which outweighs anything provided by our predecessors and

was protected in the Spending Review. However, I wish to send an

additional message of support to Scotland's students today. The

Government is leading an ambitious programme of reform but I recognise

that reform takes time and that the economic climate -- continues to

cause economic challenges. I have listened carefully to their case

put to me by Scotland's student community. I can confirm today that

on top of the �20 million additional funding already

announced for the sector, we will repeat for 2012/13 the top of

funding for student support provided in 2011/12th, totalling an

additional �11.4 million. And we will provide an additional �8

million and 2012/13 to the funding council to help colleges play their

part in delivering our opportunities for all commitments.

That is �40 million of additional investment which should leave no

one in a shadow of doubt about the strength of this administration's

commitments to an hour the students. That includes the announcements

what I wish to make today. In deploying the additional resources

to make, I must take account of the risks posed by the current economic

climate and some of the dangerous policies being advanced by the UK

Government, not least on welfare reform. I will therefore hold in

reserve some revenue, around �20 million in 2012/13 and will a

picture becomes clearer. As I have confirmed today, the Scottish

Government has delivered a budget for growth. Capital Investment

essential to our approach, we are expanding our infrastructure

programme and. We are switching capital spending through a range of

innovator financial mechanisms. We are acting to build economic

confidence, we are working to attract investment, we are tackling

unemployment, particularly youth unemployment through their

opportunities are all initiative. Modern apprenticeships and

maintaining college places. We are making a shift away from the size

of spending. In announcing additional funding today, we have

listened to views across the chamber and beyond and we have

acted decisively and response in the interests of our economy, our

public services and the people of And my name. Let's pick up on some

of the issues. The economist John McLaren joins us. The Finance

Minister putting down their his plan. He mentioned colleges and

finally this �20 million holding back for the 2012/13. How much can

he do on welfare? More so of the welfare money comes from down south.

You could say things like the education maintenance allowance is

a form of welfare, he is keeping me going. He could expand it. There

are small areas like that. �20 million is not an awful lot of

money. He could be keeping it has itself into something happens.

Again underlining distinctive policies in Scotland. Before we

cross back to the chamber, how significant to think the news on

the colleges is? Colleges have accepted the discrepancy between

what happened earlier. Whether that is going to be continually paid up,

or whether that is for the next year, that will be an important

issue. We will look at this and Ken Macintosh has just told the

chamber in terms of the SNP's budget, he hears the words but he

doesn't see the actions with the net. Let's cross now and your body

There are at a lack of control over the economic levers of power.

Surely, the SNP can do better than this? Where are the job-creation

schemes, where are the prevention is to protect job creation. I am

sympathetic to the challenges facing the Minister and I am not

trying to lay all the blame at his doorstep. The Scottish, UK and

world economies are not doing well. Toffs are cut. We do not agree with

the austerity approach of the Conservatives and Westminster. But

of course, and it has a big but, the SNP's lack of control all the

levers of power was not the argument the SNP deployed last year

when the plan was such a success. Back then when our economy was

doing marginally better than the rest of the UK, this was the cause

of prudent decisions taken by the Finance Minister using the powers

he had an within the budget coming from Westminster. This year when

things are not going so well, or whether normal powers of a normal

separate state will do. That is not the argument of a can-do Government

of a party seizing the day, the extent of stamping its economic

expertise and the country. A Government having to take the

credit when things go well and City cap low profile when times are

We are three minutes into his age and we have not heard a positive

suggestion as to how more jobs could be created. We have heard

some. You will hear more sharply. What are the main concerns of the

people of Scotland? Jobs and the rising cost of living would be my

suggestion. Two weeks ago we debated the budget on the backdrop

of growing unemployment and we have further bad news. A number of

records -- a record number of Scottish firms going bust last year.

I suggested in a stage when debate that there is a problem in his

budget on two levels. It failed to address all the problems. It does

not too worried sets out to do. The Ministers suggests his focus is on

the economy and jobs. But his budget which sets to... It does not

sound like a budget designed to get young people into work or the

construction industry moving. One housing, the SME promised 6,000

homes for social rent. -- the SNP. Not only was the -- not only are

they missing the opportunity to breathe new life in a struggling

part of industry. On services for carers, for vulnerable youngsters

and schools, all are facing more than double the cut in spending.

The Scottish Government is inviting on the rest of our public services.

It is our colleges, the very sector that does most were preparing

people to work and improving their skills and qualifications which is

hardest head. I am pleased that Mr Swinney has listened to Labour and

all the other opposition parties, to the 80,000 students who have

written and demanding he thinks again. But it is not enough. To cut

the budget by �40 million the share, rising to 70 million NFU years and

expect around a pub was. He did get a round of applause from the cycle

pants from the back benches who should be ashamed of those cells. -

Order! Order! Some people recognise true -- Truth. To a plot that hat,

disguised by smoke and mirrors is something you should be ashamed of

yourselves for. At a time when we are losing our jobs, the last thing

this Government should be doing is cutting training places for young

people. They are losing their jobs not just because of the cuts in

Westminster but because of the SNP failing to put the measures in

place to stop a happening. I wonder if the member regrets that he voted

against the SNP budget would tend to have used 25,000 modern

apprenticeships? The only reason the SNP pits things like that into

the budget is because of the Labour pressure. The only reason. And we

all know this. And not only that we voted against the budget because

despite improving with apprenticeships, you have a budget

we got rid of 4,000 teaching jobs and 2000 nursing jobs. Of course

are not going to fall for a budget like that. Now what the Government

should have done is to intervene more robustly, to ensure our taxes

do more to create and maintain employment. But instead of a Future

Jobs Fund they have a committee jobs scheme - and not done the

right direction but not a runaway success. Local authorities like

Glasgow who have been trying to use the pension funds to secure and

create jobs, have been left isolated when they should be

encouraged. We can be doing so much more to use our procurement

policies as a way of securing employment, entered using a living

wage. Just this week that Jimmy Reid Foundation published a report

highlighting the millions of pounds and thousands of jobs leaving

Scotland as big public sector contracts go to foreign firms. Mike

and Met man has been campaigning on We will be talking to Ken Macintosh

and MSPs from other parties later on in the programme. Right now,

down to matters in Westminster where NHS reports and England

dominated Prime Minister's questions. Taxes on North Sea oil

and events and said there were among the issues raised this

On the day the Prime Minister completed his NHS listening

exercises said this, some of the people who work in the NHS were

sceptical of her changes. Today we are taking people with us. And it

is in that spirit of unity that we want to continue. Why does he think

he has failed? 50 Foundation Trust have written to the newspapers in

support of our reforms and objecting to what Labour are

proposing. And the signature at the top of the less, which she may not

have noticed, is one and Campbell, the former Labour MP for Cambridge.

She, running her local Foundation Trust, supports the reforms. That

is what happens. Labour MPs leave the size and they start

implementing coalition pulsing. Just before the Olympics, Abu

Qatada up by dangerous man will be roaming the streets of London with

his mobile phone and internet access, thanks to the Prime

Minister abolishing Control Orders and heist murder arrest provisions.

How can the Prime Minister just by putting the public's right to life

at risk in order to get over to the Liberal dormer craps on their

demands to abolish the order? It is disgusting! There situation with

Abu Qatada is unacceptable. As I said in Strasbourg, it is not

acceptable that we end up with a situation, we have someone in your

country that threatens to do you harm, that you cannot try, you

cannot detain and you cannot do poor. That is why the Government

will do all it can working with a Jordanian friends and allies to

make sure that he can be deported. Again, instead of San'a pink about

this, we should unite to help sort this out. -- sniping. Treasury tax

raised in North Sea oil and gas are putting jobs at risk. Can I ask the

Prime Minister not to be complacent about North East jobs but to

incentive eyes of Sure development end tax relief on platform

decommissioning in the budget and to meet with me and others about

the jobs situation in the north- east. I think she raises an

important point. I suffer myself and Aberdeen how vital this

industry as. And indeed, how much investment is taking place in the

North Sea. Let me remind her that the reason we put up a tax on North

Sea was to cut petrol duty for families up and down the country.

But we will make sure... I don't know why members are falling all

over themselves. We will make sure there is a good tax regime for the

North Sea, was whether that is servicing jobs in England or indeed

in Scotland. What confidence can we have that unilateral intervention

with Russia or put an end to the We can have little confidence in

that. Russia and China set themselves against world opinion.

The Foreign Secretary was right to push for that resolution. What we

now need to see and Britain will be playing a big part in this, is real

engagement with the opposition groups inside and outside Syria.

Bringing together the strongest possible international alliance

through a contact group so we can co-ordinate our efforts with

respect of getting rid of this dreadful regime and making sure

through the EU and other bodies that we continue with the sanctions

and pressure, the bloodshed in sir ra is appalling -- Syria is

appalling. The Russians have to look at their consciences and

realise what they have done, but the rest of the world will keep on

fighting as hard as we can to give the Syrian people a chance to

choose their own future. Standing by on Westminster Green is David

Porter. A lot of attention on health reforms. It is causing the

Government problems? It is causing them huge problems and they are

having to take a lot of time to sort this one out. It is the Health

and Social Care Bill which 90% of it affects England only. It has

come under under criticism from the med kal profession, -- medical

profession, the doctors and the nurses. It is giving GPs more say

on how healthcare is delivered. They will get their own budgets.

They will be able able to choose the treatment for patients. That's

the aim of it. The Government says it will make healthcare more

responsive, but it seems they are on a collision course with the

medical professions. If we cast our minds back, they went through this

process once before, and they had a moratorium to consider people's

objections. It is going through the House of Lords, where it is get ago

torrid time. Andrew Lansley has come in for a lot of criticism.

David Cameron forced to defend the proposals and to defend his Health

Secretary. It was interesting, wasn't it, that Ed Miliband decided

to use all of the six questions he got on this topic. It is something

that Labour feel they are strong on. It is something the coalition

Government know that is they have got weaknesses on, but we are now

in a situation where David Cameron has decided that he is going to

tough this one out. It is taking time and effort from him and his

Government to sell this and so far to the doctors and the nurses and

the medical profession, they are having a really tough time in

selling these changes. A lot more anger about that court

ruling on the Muslim cleric, Abu Qatada and the court decision about

his right to stay here because evidence against him could have

been gathered by torture. Where can that go, do you think? It is

interesting. That is going down the diplomatic path and they are

considering legal options as well. It was raised at Prime Minister's

Questions and David Cameron left everyone in no doubt that he wants

to see Abu Qatada deported from the country. He is sending a Foreign

Office minister to Jordan in the next week or so to speak to the

Jordanian authorities. He is going to have a conversation with the

king of Jordan later on and what he will be doing is seeking to get

some assurances from Jordan that if Abu Qatada is return to the country

they have an arrest warrant for him, they bant to charge him on

terrorism charges there, that any evidence that might be gathered

when he is in custody in Jordan will not be gathered through the

processes of torture. So- calledtained evidence. The --

tainted evidence. The UK Government would like to see him out of the

country as soon as possible. An immigration court ruled he can be

given bail with restriction. He will only be allowed out two hours

a day. He will not have access to the internet or a mobile phone. But

those restrictions maybe less. There is huge anger at Westminster

particularly on the the Conservative backbenches. That is

why ministers are doing so much behind the scenes to try and get to

a situation where they can get some assurances out of the of the

Jordanian authorities, even if they get the assurances they will have

to say to a judge judge, "We have these assurances. It is OK to

deport him." There is anger here at Westminster at the the way the

situation has panned out and there is nothing the Government can do

about it. But on a different subject about

what the Government can do, Stephen Hester, the RBS, boss han han --

has been very public in talking about his bonus and that he did

consider resigning when he saw the level of public anger, but that

wouldn't have been the appropriate thing, that would have been the

easy way out. What is going on with with Stephen Hester making these

statements in public? Where have we got to with the bangers bonuses?

spoke to our colleagues on the Radio 4 Today programme. He didn't

try to defend bankers and say they are worth the money they are being

paid. He didn't shy away from the questions he was asked. He said

bankers are very well paid. He said from his own situation he had taken

over a bank which he used the phrase "was a ticking timebomb and

he was doing his best to sort it out." He said he understood the

anger and he had considered resigning when the whole row blew

up, but he decide not to take his bonus. We have had the RBS bonus

story, we have had the Network Rail bonus story within the last week.

We are getting into the point where some of the major banks are

starting to report their profits and their bonuses. For that reason,

I don't think this story will go away. In the next week or so, we

will find out what Sir Bob Diamond, the boss of Barclays, a bank which

has taken no Government money, there are rumours that he could

take up to �6.5 million, for that reason and we will be getting their

bonus figures, this story won't go away just yet.

Thank you. Coming up:

Last month's storms left thousands without electricity. The Scottish

Affairs committee will be asking energy bosses if they can be doing

more to prevent power cuts in island communities.

Hayley Miller spoke to Stephen Hester where he spoke about his

bonus and where the bank is now. Back to the Budget. Back to John.

When we look through some of the key points again, John, if you look

at infrastructure, housing and roads, more cash for both. Why do

you think that priority? I think housing again was was - got

a large cut in terms of the review in September, but I think overall

there is this shift of trying to move money from the current budget

into the capital budget because the capital budget has been cut by so

much that they are trying to off set that as much as possible, plus

the things that came from the Autumn Statement were on the

expenditure side. Day-to-day spending? There was �500

million on the capital side. There have been some transferred before,

but only that earlier bit is sort of like Scottish Government's

decisions to move it from one to the other. It is trying to see it

as a string of Plan B, they are describing this as a Budget for

growth, boosting capital and through employability, but like the

Autumn Statement Budget, it isn't, governments like to call them them

budgets for growth, but what is not really what is happening. It is a

slight moving around of a small amount of money. Of the UK Budget

it won have an impact -- won't have an impact on growth.

You don't think? It is under a half of a percent of the Scottish Budget.

In terms of what they are trying to do with roads and infrastructure

and housing, it has a political coherence to it. Where you say, "If

we invest on this, it provides the things we can build our economy and

B, it provides work.". It is what a political connotation. It doesn't

really have in the short to medium term it doesn't have an economic

backing. You are taking a way a-- away a a job and moving into the

capital side. That capital may go to a foreign company. Much of it

may go overseas. It doesn't have a boost to the economy because as we

said before, what is the room for manoeuvre? Very well room for

manoeuvre if you can't borrow. The most they could try and do is

instead of freezing council tax, you could increase council tax,

that would give you more money. That would give the Government more

money, but individuals less less money. There is a shifting around,

but that shifting around in the short run tends to have almost no

impact net in terms of what the - what will happen to the economy. It

might be better for the economy in the long Long Run, it might improve

the infra strur in-- infra struck sture. -- infrastructure.

The preventive spend which will have to kick in. Let's go back to

the Lobby. There is extra funding then for the

colleges which is hat Lib Dems were exercised about? Absolutely. We

have been saying that trying to square the Government's commitment

to tackling youth unemployment to prioritising the needs of the

college sector was impossible to square with the savage cuts we had

seen to the college Budget. What we have seen today is the finance

secretary making good some of the ground there. I think the detail of

how this will be applied on the ground is still unclear, but

nevertheless we would welcome the fact that the finance secretary has

responded to the overwhelming voice of calls to additional funding to

the college sector from students, staff, and indeed, from ourselves.

I think it is a little disappointing that the Education

Secretary himself felt that the cuts proposed where a full, fair

and final settlement and he can take little credit from the moves

made by the finance secretary today. Has he done enough to get the Lib

Dem support? We will have to see. Willie Rennie is due to speak later.

The detail of this is going to be essential. So there is a number of

questions he will be posing to the finance secretary, but it will be

churlish not to acknowledge that progress has been made in relation

to college funding. One other key areas was funding for affordable

housing and some moves have been made in that direction as well. We

will have to see what emerges through this debate, but progress

has been made. What did you make of the cut to the

supermarket tax? It is an interesting one. I think it is an

issue on which the Government felt vulnerable, not least because of

the complete absence of any consultation prior to the proposal

being launched by the finance secretary last year. That has hurt

their credibility with the business community and this is an exercise

and John Swinney is trying to regain some of that ground. Whether

it is enough remains to be seen. Given the SNP's calls for the UK to

consult on tax proposals ahead of the introduction, their approach

undermines that credibility. What has been the most significant

part of the Budget for you today for the Lib Dems?

Well, from my prospective as the education spokesman, I have been

like a stuck record in relation to the college budget over the last

few months. So I'm delighted to see progress has been made in as a

reward for the astonishing campaign run by NUS Scotland and the

colleges themselves. That for me, I think, is the movement I would

probably welcome more than any other.

Thank you very much indeed. The debate is continuing in the

chamber. We are joined by, in fact in a

short minute, we will be. They are not there yet. It is loose and

still happening. John, if we look at what Liam

McArthur was saying. The colleges have cash and you were saying there

is a limited amount of money going into a small amount of projects,

when we look at the philosophy of saying preventive spend is really

important. We will transfer from revenue into capital. Before we

went to the interview, you were saying that will work possibly in

the long-term, but not in the short-term. But with preventive

spend, what you could argue is politically, that is a mature thing

to do. Not to look for the next If it was going into preventative

spend, it would be more preventative health and early years

education. In the Autumn Statement the UK Government freed up some

money to put into its early years intervention and education and back

came through greater pay restraint at UK level. I did not hear any

mention their that Scotland was going to match that. There was no

extra money for Scotland but the money came from extra pay restraint

that goes on for another two years. That would be an indication, maybe

it will come later, of more money going into there. I think even then

early-years preventative education is still, if you look at education

as a whole, you have early years, schools, higher education further

education. The budget is still favouring schools and higher

education. Further education is not getting such a good deal and early

years getting some more money but a very small sum of money relative to

what others get. That is what you're choices are in terms of

austerity -- austerity, but whether they are the right changes, they

are not geared towards preventative. We can cross now to the Gordon

lobby and Ken Macintosh. Thank you for coming out and talking to us.

Do you think the right choices have been made today? No, I don't. The

Finance Secretary talks about a budget for jobs and growth, but

even after today's last minute changes, he has invested in the

right areas. Colleges are getting a �40 million Cup next year and a �74

million cut. Housing is get up large cut. These are not the

decisions of a Government looking to employ young people are to get

the construction industry moving again. But we have heard

considerable sums for investment in roads, in infrastructure and Rob

and colleges. Accepting that money was taken out so some of this is

just money going back in, is there not a bit grudging not acknowledge

that there has been a turnaround on the colleges? The yes, we do except

that if you start from the premise that you have removed �70 million

from a budget, then giving back �19 million is an improvement. I did

say that. The Finance Secretary has at least listen to the voices of

opposition. But this is no way to conduct a budget. To speak to us a

week before and then to tell us what his decisions are or an hour

before the budget, that is a not -- that is not a negotiation horror

budget designed to work with political parties. That is game-

playing. It is not the approach the SNP should be taking. The Labour

Party stands ready to work with the SNP. We do not wish to be grudging.

We do not wish to criticise their decisions. We wish to work with

some. We still stand ready to do that now. In layman's terms, is a

fundamental difference of your attitude to fiscal stimulus on how

to get jobs back into the economy, how to get the economy going, what

is the fundamental difference between how you would do it and how

the SNP propose to do it? We were poor employment at the heart of our

policy. We are accused procurement is secure jobs. We would have job

creation schemes as well. What we have got from the SNP is two

examples today, the enterprise zones and the Tesco tax. The public

health levy. Neither of them have been assessed for their impact on

jobs. We had finance questions last week when he admitted that. I do

not understand how we can have 100,000 young people out of work

and a crisis facing our country and that two new policies the

Government is introducing have not been assessed for their impact on

employment and the market. Have you written off the 25,000

apprenticeships they have put in place? Absolutely not. The early

reason we have them is because Labour campaigned and compound and

campaigned on apprenticeships over many years. It was a concession

that a previous budget. Thank you For joining us. Now, a change of

We had a loss in large parts of Scotland at the start of the year.

We will start with Scottish Power. Can you tell us what was the reason

why we lost the power? I know there was a storm, but why was you're now

works not able to stand up to that storm? I'll start. The weather we

had seen in the January event was very extreme. We had a huge part of

the mainland hit by this weather. We were not the only infrastructure

damage. There were lots of aspects of infrastructure damage. We

experienced a huge amount of false honour networks over 1,100 vaults.

The vast majority of that was driven by debris being driven on to

our lines and having to be clear, such as trees. That was the largest

reason we see. We saw roofs over adjacent buildings flying in terse

sub-stations. It caused damage to her infrastructure that needed

repaired. What I would dad is that -- what I would add is that where

there was unprecedented in that period between the first beacon

December through to the first week in January. It was the stronger

winds that we have recorded since 1974. It was the 4th wettest, that

meant a lot of the ground was saturated, a lot of the tree roots,

foundations for a weekend. Certainly we have never seen

anything like that. Some of the evidence was quite horrendous and

unacceptable. People were left without heating, lighting and in

some cases without any water. I am sure everyone on the panel there

will be aware the old at - be prepared for her the worst. Were

you caught completely on the hop? would like to think we were

prepared. We had a view that we were entering into a number storm.

We tried to model Honor End and some of the very strong levels we

experience through what we expected to come through. What Aesop was the

Met Office changing mat to a red status and we had already mobilised

for staff to come in. Can I interrupt? You will need to treat

me as if I know nothing. When you're talking about Amber storms,

what are you talking about? The Met of us have a national criteria for

informing people about weather warnings. The more severe the

weather is a further rapid goes from green to red. How do you

decide eight where your priorities are for investment or refurbishment

and how do you decide how much to Britain? N a price control review

we have a contract with the core regulator that has been negotiated.

That is a very detailed contract. It has operating costs and what

your plans are for investment. We have to deliver for that a series

about pits. Also to help NZ devisers, there are incentive

schemes to improve all rates. And all response. Those are symmetrical.

If you beat the targets that have been given by Ofgem, that is based

on your performance those targets. You perform well. We can go back

over to Holyrood now. If you are finding is frustrating, you can see

the assault on democracy alive. I am delighted to say that their core

convenor of the Scottish Greens Patrick Harvie is in the lobby now.

Thank you for coming out to talk to us. You were talking about

sustainable travel and active travel and the Government's

commitments to that. Can you explain what they are a what the

point was of your intervention today? Yes indeed. Active travel is

an umbrella term for any measures that support walking and cycling.

So we can start moving some of the share journeys on to those

sustainable and Green was a travel. It also covers public transport,

anything with a lower carbon impact. The SNP's amendment was to increase

their share of the overall transfer budget the cost is sustainable and

active travel. And what we have seen in the first couple of years

so far is huge increases in the road-building programme and huge

cuts to sustainable an act of travel. I was asking John Swinney

wide and today's announcement, although you is reversing a small

part of the cut to sustainable one- acter Trouble, he is putting even

more money into the road-building programme. This is putting us

further weight on the SNP policy and a closer to it. Thank you very

much. We have to leave it there. Taking the time to talk to us. John,

before we go, you know John Swinney has been saying time and time again,

every day my of his people are turning up with ideas of how to

spend money, but no one is coming up with ideas with where we can get

that money from. None of the political parties would say where

the cuts would be coming from. With a be fair to say? By it is why we

are seeing today it is difficult for other political parties to say,

they might say what they want to do, but they're not saying what they're

going to cut in order to do it. So those difficult decisions are being

left there. Also, if they wanted to be more brave they would say, we do

not want to make any more cuts, or we will do is raise more money

through student fees, through raising council tax. But again I

have not see any mention of doing that. So, while that remains the

case that other political parties will be in a weak position to

criticise what the Government is doing. If we are going into a

referendum debate, to think any party is going to start talking

about what they would cut in cuts to services, cuts to jobs? At the

Autumn Statement, the Office of budge a responsibility push for it

for another two years of austerity up to 2016/17. That means the

independence referendum will take place in the middle of this period

of austerity which will make it interesting, perhaps, on what are

the key things or the different ways that you may go round of

funding Government and the services that a Government is far. We're not

going to be out of the woods by the time the referendum comes about. So

it will be interesting. A lot about the relationship we can expect

between the Government and the councils across the country? How do

you think that is going to develop in the months and years ahead?

think there is -- I think the Government tries to give local

governments a good deal. Local Huth -- local councils are not happy.

They end up getting a reasonable deal but it will take a fair head.

That has happened for a couple of years, once it happens for longer

than they can raise council tax, I think things are going to get more

combustible between the two. the public will not it is more?

think more people will start to say, this is an important budget and we

need to protect it. Thank you very much for coming in today. That is

it from us. You can see all of the Sun democracy alive. Newsnight