12/06/2013 Politics Scotland

how to plan for a successful Scotland. The government defends her

vision -- unveils vision for national development. Another set of

positive employment readers - the Scottish and UK governments both

claim credit. Here at Westminster, academics mull over what life could

be like in an independent Scotland. Unemployment in Scotland has fallen

for the seventh time in a row. The number of people out of work was

down by 6000 between debris and April. Across the UK unemployment

also fell. I am joined by Paul Gilbride, the medical commentator of

the Scottish Daily Express. Hello and welcome. -- the political

commentator. A positive development on the jobs front. Yes. Both

governments are claiming credit when there is good news. There is a lot

of government money going into tackling unemployment, particularly

youth unemployment. We have a dedicated minister for that in this

part of the UK. One could argue that it is down to the UK government that

Scotland is performing so well. governments are arguing that it is

there a success story. unemployment figures for a while

were not so good. You could not get any government minister to comment

on it. Yes, it is a good news story and it is good for the Scottish

economy. The SNP can take some credit for it. But whether that is

an advert for a so-called plan B stimulus spending, that remains to

be seen. What do the figures tell us about the economy as a whole? Can we

see some overall picture emerging? There is a report out today which

says the financial sector is suffering. Manufacturing is not

performing too well either. Overall, it is a difficult one to call. I

think we have got to be very cautious about this. The recession

is going to last another six or seven years from what the experts

say. There could be peaks and troughs until we get back to an

established rhythm. Thank you for now.

The Labour leader Ed Miliband has claimed that real wages have fallen

by an average of �1300 since the coalition came to power. He was

speaking at my ministers questions were David Cameron accused him of

talking down the economy. The exchange began with questions about

Syria. I quoted him about the supply of

lethal equipment. He gave an assurance to this House that there

would be safeguards. My question was what would those safeguards be? I

did not hear an answer. Will he confirm that if he takes a decision

to arm the Syrian rebels, there will be a boat in this place, in

government time, with the recall of Parliament from recess if

necessary? With the issue of safeguards, we are not supplying the

opposition with weapons, we are supplying them with technical

assistance and non-lethal equipment. We made no decision to supply the

opposition with weapons. That is the answer. On the issue, as the Foreign

Secretary and I have made clear, I have always believed in allowing the

House of Commons a on all of these issues. I ink that was right when it

came to Iraq, it was right when we came to the decision to help the

opposition in Libya, and it would be right in the future as well for that

to happen. I must stress we have made no decision to arm the rebels

and Syria. He is into his fourth year as Prime Minister and his

excuse for falling standards is do not blame me, I am only the Prime

Minister. It is not good enough. He does not understand that because of

his failure to get growth in the economy, wages are falling for

ordinary people. He wants to tell them they are better off out they

are worse off. Can he confirm that today's figures show that after

inflation, since he came to power, wages have fallen on average by over

�1300 a year. Under this government, we have seen over one points to 5

million private sector jobs and growth in the private sector

employment rate. That is what is happening. Living standards are

under pressure and that is why we are freezing council tax.

As we approach the 25th anniversary of the paper Alpha disaster, will

the Prime Minister join with me in recognising the challenges we face

in bringing gas and oil from the North Sea, the skills of those who

do it and the paramount importance of safety? I will join my honourable

friend in praising the North Sea gas and oil industry. What is

encouraging is that this year we are seeing growth in production as the

number of new fields and projects come on stream. Safety and security

are absolutely paramount at all times.

Let us stay at Westminster or we can speak to our correspondence David

Porter. It was a busy agenda. -- our correspondent. It was a Prime

Minister's Questions of two parts. There were concerns over Syria and

what the government is doing. Secondly, there was the domestic

issue of the economy. Both sides obviously welcomed the fall in

unemployment. The unemployment rate in Scotland is seven points 1%, and

it is significantly below that in the rest of the United Kingdom. More

people are finding jobs. Ed Miliband wanted to focus on what he said, the

drop in what he said were real wages for real people. What appears to be

happening in the recession that we have had and the recovery we are now

experiencing, rather than unemployment shooting up, people

have taken a reduction in wages to keep their jobs. That has not

happened previously. All sides will welcome the fall in unemployment,

but the flip side of this in that there are more people in work, even

if the real wages have declined. There is an interesting conference

going on about Scotland and independence. Tell us more about

that. Scotland might have to make hard choices if there is

independence? This has in organised by a research group. They have a

number of academics, some from Scotland and some from England, and

they are looking about what could happen in an independent Scotland.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies is one group giving evidence and they

are renowned as economic gurus for looking ahead as to what will

happen. That is why there are opinions carry so much weight. --

their opinions. If Scotland was to become independent, one commentator

said you would not notice much change, but things might alter

significantly. The UK government will have to change its fiscal

attitude. One person who will be speaking at this conference is a

professor from Strathclyde University. He will talk about the

decision to extend the franchise to 16-year-olds and 17-year-olds in the

referendum in September 2014. A lot of academics who look at these

figures and how things develop will be interested to see the role they

think that young people will play. Thank you.

My guest for the afternoon is Paul Gilbride. Let us pick up on a couple

of those points. The representative from the Institute of fiscal studies

said higher taxes and lower spending could be an option compared to the

rest of the UK? It is an interesting analysis. It feeds into suspicions

that are already in existence. I taxation is one of the great fears

of an independent Scotland, simply cause of the idea of Scottish

values, a bigger welfare state, cradle to grave welfare care. It is

interesting that the Institute for Fiscal Studies, that is one choice

they say we would face in an independent Scotland, because

spending cuts. That is not a big seller for people to vote yes.

the Conservative conference this weekend, one representative was

promising more powers for Scotland. She said there could be law taxes in

Scotland, not three independence, but if there was more devolution.

Perhaps that would be the case. It depends on what way you talk. The

direct link between public spending and taxation, at some point it has

to be made that the average Scottish border and if extended devolution

can make that link, then people will make the choice. Do they want to

keep more money, or put more into public services? You mentioned

welfare. We have that report yesterday from a working group on

welfare. Can you emphasise some of the points that were picked out in

that report? They said there would be continuity in an independent

Scotland and services would be shared for a period. Yes. The

bureaucratic monolith that is the welfare system, pensions and

benefits, to just break a link overnight, it also said there was a

serious risk of pensions and benefits being broken. After

independence, we will have a period lasting up to 2020 or beyond, in

which an independent Scotland must rely on the UK welfare system. There

are a lot of processing offices based in Scotland. We would still be

tied in to the UK welfare system which is not what a lot of people

who would vote yes would have expected. Thank you for now. Let us

get some reaction at Holyrood to political events today. I am joined

in the garden lobby by a range of guests. Gentlemen, good afternoon.

And, very positive employment figures today. -- Jamie Hepburn. Who

is taking credit? Employment is up by 47,000 over a three-month period.

That is in contrast to the rest of the UK. The figures are stagnating.

It is clear that Scotland must take a fair degree of credit for this. We

have a dedicated Minister for youth employment across the United

Kingdom. We have seen youth unemployment come down by 10%. Some

people would say that is a consequence, but I think it is a

concerted effort from the Minister. Fewer people more people are in

temporary jobs with no guarantee of future incomes? When it comes to

youth unemployment, the youth jobs fund is being criticised. They can

criticise it all they want, but the facts are clear. Youth unemployment

is down. These are official figures. If you compare it to what is

happening across the rest of the UK, you should struggle to see a bad

news story. It should be welcomed. Michael McMahon, how can you turn

this into a bad story? We are not turning it into a bad news story. Of

course we welcome the lower in unemployment. But you are deluding

if you think just by looking at this, it does, official fishings

show, we have -- figures show we have more people working on

short-term contracts, more people working part-time and we don't know

the sustainability of the circumstances. While we want to see

increases in employment and reductions in unemployment, that is

not the full picture. That is all that Ken McIntories -- McIntosh is

pointing out. We welcome the youth fund. But we have to take everything

in the round. We are not trying to create it as a bad news story, but

ensure that the Scottish Government remain focussed on the full picture,

because there is more work to be done. Ed Milliband was criticising

David Cameron for his handling of the economy, but when you see these

employment figures, are we perhaps seeing the green shoots? Well, they

may well be, but we have seen information there may be a down turn

next year. We have to be vigilant, of course we want to see

improvements in the employment situation and we welcome any

reductions in unemployment and we want to see people's lives being

bettered by the opportunity of going into work. We are not going to decry

that. But it is about the bigger picture. We want to see an

improvement in the economy, but we want to see that sustainable and see

the jobs that are being created, long-term, high skilled and

sustainable. Not short-term fixes. Gavin Brown, your listening to the

arguments, does it seem like the Scottish Government is doing more

than the UK Government to help Scotland's economy recover when you

look at something like the youth jobs fund? You have to be careful

looking at one quarter's figures. These are good figures, but they

represent February to April of this year, over one quarter. If you look

at the course over the last three years, there have been long periods

where the UK has done better in terms of employment and there have

been periods where Scotland has done better in employment. The figures

today show that Scotland currently has a healthier picture for both

unemployment and employment, but the unemployment is still far too high

at 194,000 people and there are some choppy waters ahead. I think they

are a good set of figures, but there is a lot to do. Jaime ji Hepburn --

Jamie Hepburn, another thing, the retained welfare for transitional

payments, what do you make of that, you have been castigated for that.

What does independence mean? What does independence mean? The Scottish

Government has been clear, it means we still have the degree of policy

control over wealthier policy. I don't think this is a report that

should be easily dismissed, this panel was headed by Darragh Singh.

It is an expert panel coming up with expert recommendations. The

recommendation is a simple transitional arrangements whereby

the administrative side is shared and not until 2020, not for a one or

two year period. That seems to be a sensible arrangement. The key is of

course that we will be able to move away from the Westminster race to

the bottom and see the condemn Government's reform and we have seen

the rhetoric from Labour, they are joining in that race to the bottom.

We can move from that with policy control over these matters. That is

what independence will mean. Michael McMahon, it is a sensible idea and

means that Scotland can have control over welfare eventually? It is an

old trick to promise j tomorrow, what we are getting is no promise of

any jam and if there is, someone else will deliver it. The reality is

if the SNP continue down this road, it will be the Labour Party and the

unionist parties who will be offering more in terms of devolution

than the SNP. They continually insist that nothing will change and

everything will remain the same we have to stick with the DWP for

welfare and with the Bank of England and the pound. Where is this

independence? You wonder why we're going to bother having a referendum.

Gavin Brown is this not a sensible attempt to find a way of working out

how independence might work? The big problem for the Scottish Government

is they claim to be against all the reforms that have taken place so far

in the relation to welfare, but when pressed on which of them they would

reverse, I am struggling to find any that they say they would reverse.

Would they reverse the change from RPI to CPI? They would reverse child

benefit changes? Most they will not say whether they will reverse. They

just have a bland statement that Scotland will be fairer and better,

without specific commitments it is difficult for them to be held to it.

Thank you. Now, official planning decisions are key to making the

economy run smoothly, the Scottish Government's third national planning

framework is being debated at Holyrood today. The local government

minister is speaking in the chamber now, let's cross live and listen to

him there. They will benefit the position of Scotland as we reach the

ambitions that we have laid out. I don't buy into the idea that the UK

Government would be so reckless on the idea that Scotland achieves

independence. We see it as a pragmatic opportunity and I am sure

the UK Government will see sense also. One thing that has been

striking as I have talked to people about what should be in this has

been the support for green infrastructure and the central

Scotland green network has been a popular national development. There

is no doubt we want to continue to support this, we have had much

interest in walking and cycling infrastructure and I propose that

the development of a national network of routes be a national

development. Of course. Thank you. 20 years ago I was involved in

helping set up community nature reserve which was from site

regeneration and is now regarded as a community asset. In relation to

the policies on brownfield sites, could the minister reflect on the

importance sor op -- of some brown field life for bug life and others?

That is an important point and I have been impressed with work for

the Scottish Wildlife Trust, who I visited, seeing the path ways that

show how we can connect ecosystems with economics and this is a great

example of where this has been done on a strategic basis. That is

proposed to continue within the national planning framework. That

point about that understanding of the environment is central in these

document and we want to bring that alive locally, as well on a national

basis. In terms of our proposed strategy of course we must recognise

the role of the cities as drivers of economic work and will do further

work on the cities and towns to support economic regeneration.

Examples of good planning also include for the first time as a

national designation at Ravens Craig and Dundee waterfront, where we

launched the proposals. Further comments on alternative fuels,

decarbonising transport, support of rail and further energy aspects as

they relate to a low carbon ambitions. We have taken recognition

of how some projects have been developed and developed no longer

require that consenting regime and they no longer feature. Other

changes will include the long-term ambitions at scar pa throw and

Hunter stop which hours may talk of. These policies represent something

for every part of the country, focussing on sustainable growth and

giving protection to the environment. A balance that we have

to strike for the right reasons to achieve the Government's objective

in consultation with communities across Scotland. And that in that

sense I commend the motion on these policy documents to Parliament.

Sara Boyack. I want to thank the many organisations who have sent us

brief, I realise they have had a short time to pull together their

observations. At its heart, planning is a democratic process, which

enables communities and their representatives to shape change and

the purpose of the Labour amendment is to flag up concerns about the

increasing use of term sustainable economic growth, rather than

sustainable development. A more sustainable Scotland will be created

by the day-to-day decisions taken through the planning system.

Leadership's crucial and there is much to welcome in both the draft

MPF three and Scottish planning policy, but the definitions are

important. I want to take the opportunity to push the minister on

the way he has framed the purpose and the objectives in the NPF. I

believe deaf I was ins are important and the suggest that economic

benefits should trump other ks would be a -- considerations would be a

step back. That was Sarah Boyack speaking. Now some final thoughts

from Paul Gilbride. Something else at Prime Minister's question from

the Labour MP from Dundee West on the issue of blacklisting. These

were building firms which blacklisted employees for political

connections and other things? and sometimes just gossip from what

the Scottish affairs select committee has discovered. Yes, this

whole issue is an absolute disgrace. The unions in Scotland have been

calling for the Scottish government to launch a public inquiry. The

situation from the Scottish Government's point of view, the

committee which is investigated this situation which goes back to the

when -- when it was discovered in 2009, they haven't finished that

inquiry and they have asked for new evidence. Also the other factor is

employment legislation still is reserved to Westminster. As far as

the Scottish Government is concerned, let's get the inquiry out

of the way and we will take it from there. But it does appear to be the

case that there is about 600 workers in Scotland were on this secret

blacklist. Jim McGovern raised it, what did the Prime Minister say?

was asked if he saw the documentary about this, I think the Prime

Minister's response was he hadn't seen Panorama. Of course, Jim

McGovern said it was Sir object McAlpine, one of the companies

involved, he speak about McCarthyism. But the Prime Minister

wasn't taking it on? No the Prime Minister will be the same as the

Scottish Government, let's see what comes out of the final report of the

Scottish Affairs Commitee. And these workers are won'ting compensation

and maybe jail for the people who blacklisted them. Yes and some of

these workers weren't able to bring a wage in for 25 years, because they

appeared on this blacklist, allegedly so. Quite right. Paul

Gilbride thank you. So this a all we have time for today, it is a shorter

programme, we are now making way for Andy Murray who is on court at