13/09/2012 Politics Scotland

A very warm welcome to the Scottish Parliament. This afternoon, Michael

Moore the Scottish Secretary and Nicola Sturgeon will try to sort

out the regulations for the forthcoming referendum on

independence and with an eye to the substance of that, we will be

talking about whether or not Scotland would automatically be in

the European Union, plus jobs figures out yesterday. Any of these

issues could be questions for the First Minister in this programme.

We can cross to the chamber now. Thank you, Brian. The Government is

being questioned on Scottish football. We may need to turn more

attention to that after next week's endeavours. First Minister's

Questions number-one. Thank you very much. I know the First

Minister will be celebrating with all of Scotland the wonderful

summer of sport culminating in Andy Murray's fantastic victory in the

US Open. But can I pass the First Minister what engagements he has

planned for the rest of today? Nothing like as enjoyable as the

celebration that we will jointly engaged in tomorrow. This chamber

congratulates the amazing feat of Scotland's Olympians and

Paralympians. But she is perfectly correct, given the extraordinary

events of this week, we should send particular congratulations to Andy

Can I asked the First Minister, is there anything of independence that

the people of Scotland should not now? I think the great thing about

independence, which is increasingly realised across Scotland and beyond,

it will give the people of Scotland the ability to determine the their

own affairs. It will mobilise the natural and human resources of this

country to create a prosperous and just society. Yesterday the

President of the European Commission was clear when he said,

a new state, if it wants to join the union, has to apply it like any

state. That means that a new state of Scotland would first have to

apply to be a member of the Union. If successful, it would have to

adopt the European currency. The First Minister does not have any

legal advice which contradicts the EU Commission, does he? Let me see

if I can help with these matters. Scotland is not an assessing state.

-- as session. We have been a member for 40 years. Even the

Conservative benches are in the European Union. Whether they like

it or not. Every single one of ours. We are not in the position of a

country which is not part... Order. We will have to talk about things

but the pressure. Is that these discussions take place from within

the -- the pressure point is that these discussions take place from

within the European Union. As for the things that were said, he did

not mention the European currency yesterday. Let me tell you

something he actually said which has not been widely quoted. I do

not see any country leaving and many countries wanting to join.

Scotland is part and will remain part of the European Union as an

independent country. I did listen very carefully but I do not think I

detected an answer to the question I asked. He seems to be predicated

on the fact that Scotland would not be a new state. You wonder what we

have been arguing for for the past 100 years! If the fast minister has

advice which does contradict her what the President has said, why

does he not remove doubt and publish it? Between the people and

the representatives, dialogue is essential in democracy it. Listen

to his old deputy and friend, instead of telling Scotland what

advice he has had, he is using our money to fund a court action to

stop asked knowing what the First Minister knows. It is in the cup

interest, I quote, to know what information is being taken into

account in developing policy with such a significant issue like

independence. Surely he believes it is in the public interest to know

the consequences of independence? There is a difference between a

country which has been a member for 40 years, 40 years of membership of

the European Union and a country which is trying to join for the

first time, like Turkey. Can I remind her that even when a country

is trying to depart from the European Union like fin land, it is

leaving from inside the European Union. -- Finland. Yesterday,

discussions took place in that context. Incidentally, as has been

discussed, the same thing applies to the rest of the United Kingdom.

They will be in exactly the same legal position. She has referred to

the question of the publication of the existing legal advice. She has

been a minister and has had exactly the same things herself. But the

ministerial code says that the legal advice has been given to

ministers and it must not been revealed outside of the Scottish

government unless under clear circumstances. Order. I say quite

clearly that I have been referred by opposition parties five times.

Under the ministerial code. You are saying that is not enough. But

given the track record of nothing out of five... Five times, these

complaints have been missed by the independent adjudicators on these

matters. If I'd reached that paragraph of the ministerial code -

- if I'd reached that paragraph, there would be no defence. -- if I

violated that paragraph, they would be no defence. I have reconciled my

obligations and I think that the democratic imperative of that

information for the people of Scotland is important. We have

guaranteed that we had set out our intention to publish the white

paper at this time next year. I give her my guarantee that this

paper, which sets out the context of the Independent's proposition,

will have a detailed assessment on membership continuing in the

European Union. I get a guarantee that everything will be fully

consistent with the legal advice... SOUND PROBLEM... We will reconcile

the ministerial code with the imperative to let the people of

Scotland see the full advantages of being an independent country.

not sure who he imagines would give us information which is costing the

state a lot of money. �100,000 to keep it out of the public domain. I

never in all of my time as the First Minister posed a question in

which we have decided the most important question of 300 years. In

these circumstances I suggest that we should look at information that

cannot usefully be revealed. Otherwise one has to ask what is

the First Minister hiding? We have to get this right. The Information

Commissioner is wrong, the President is wrong. Only Alex

Salmond is right all the time. No doubt he will soon be blaming Ellie

Simmonds, most thorough and Chris Simmons. -- Sir Chris Hoy. It has

descended into a deliberate deception, with the European

currency. He has not provided any evidence about the European

President. Scotland would have to apply again and join the currency

with all the disastrous economic consequences. He has to understand

that when he says something, his backbenchers agree and we expect

more than a simple assertion. He does not tell the people of

Scotland at beetroot. When is he planning to tell them? -- the truth.

Can I welcome the spokeswoman for the European President? The actual

spokesperson said that yesterday he would like to clarify because of

misrepresentations of what was said in terms of the European

Commission's position. No doubt she will have to clarify the

misrepresentations from Joanna Lamond. I quote earlier that no

countries are leaving and many want to join. How would I be reported

under the ministerial code if I was in breach? Well maybe I could

interest is a chamber in reporting about the ministerial code about

tea and biscuits? I think I might be reported in terms of a breach

under these conditions. But she is at a great disadvantage. This is a

question that was prepared at all she heard the answer. I think it is

a reasonable solution, to conform to the ministerial code to provide

information that the people wish to have. That is about the publication

of the white paper. One full year before the decision on the

referendum. These areas of European membership for an independent

Scotland will be examined in great detail and everything in that white

paper will be fully consistent and informed by the legal advice that

we have received. That seems to me to be a reasonable proposition. We

will been looking forward to reading that white paper and a

passport to independence and freedom. Ruth Davidson. When will

he next meets the Prime Minister? Next week. Perhaps we will not see

you hiding behind the ministerial code and European spokes people.

When Nicola Sturgeon launched her management system for the Scottish

NHS appointments, she assured us that, it is not a quote,

communicating with patients is one of the areas that will determine

how the NHS will improve and this will help us to achieve that. At a

cost of �44 million. Looking at one help board, we can see a system in

meltdown. -- Health Board. They have had to cancel 7,000

appointments since its introduction. Does the First Minister still have

confidence in the system, from which, in section To implementation

is entirely the product of his government? -- from its inception

in implementation. -- to its implementation. The information

technology in the Scottish Health Service pales into insignificance

with the difficulties experienced by her administration south of the

border. Perhaps the test of the management of the health service by

Nicola Sturgeon, we are looking at the wishes of her leaving her post

last week. I have got a selection of all of the quotations from the

volunteer services from the health economist. All of them have

complemented Nicola Sturgeon in terms of the fantastic job she did

as the Scottish Health Secretary. I have got a selection of quotations

from Andrew Lansley leaving his job in England and not a single person,

not even his colleagues congratulated him on the job he did.

Nicolas Bevan got a cart so everything is all right. Fantastic!

This reference to the 7,500 was shocking but it is not even 10% of

the story. Look at what is happening. From the launch of the

system, including out-patient appointments, you get a staggering

110 thousand cancellations by the NHS. That is one in eight when

people thought they were going to get help and suddenly the doctor

cannot see them now. I will tell you what else the minister said at

the launch of this shambles. This system will be much more efficient,

faster and secured. It is also better for the environment. It is

not better for patients. There is nowhere for them to hide. Nobody

else to blame and do not look south of the border. Will he call once in

his life take some responsibility and order an investigation and get

I will take responsibility as will sturg nor the statistics released

last week showing that lowest waiting times in the history of the

National Health Service in Scotland an the observance of the key

targets in terms of healthcare, says don't look south of the border.

Why shouldn't we? Because the contrast is between a public Health

Service in Scotland, performing in extraordinary high level for

patients concerned and a Health Service which is being dismantled

south of of the border which won't even by a National Health Service

at all. So yes, we will take responsibility, we will take

responsibility for the extraordinary achievements of the

staff in our National Health Service, who are performing under

extraordinary difficult budgetary condition, and performing

exceptionally well, because this budget, this Government doesn't

have just the commitment to protect a real budget of the NHS. Unlike

her party we are committed to having a National Health Service.

The chamber will be wear of the proposed merger between AG Barr

which the Essex based firm Britvic. Does the First Minister agree with

me, given the iconic Scottish brands involved if any merger goes

ahead a company should head quartered in Scotland and the

production should be at the couple bernauld site? I am certain the

member is right to raise these issues and proper to do, so he will

know as I do, the positive statements for AG Barr in terms of

the future of the company, if the agreed merger goes ahead, and there

is every indication that the strength of the, an excellence of

the history of that company, its iconic status and the excellence of

its staff, are g are going to ensure and it remains and expands

its operations in Scotland. What issues will be discussed at the

next meeting of the cabinet. issues of importance to the people

of Scotland. No matter what the First Minister says about Europe,

there is a great deal of confusion, about his plans for Scotland in the

EU. A certain something doesn't make it true -- asserting of the

First Minister says he is right and Scotland will be a continuing EU

member, but what if he is wrong? have set out what I think is an

excellent way to resolve the request for information in terms of

the White Paper, since Willie Rennie is asking the question, he

will have heard his former colleague Lord Wallace support the

Scottish Government's position, in terms of the legal advice by

pointing out he would face exactly the same circumstances as a

Westminster minister, so I am certain that Willie Rennie at least,

given Lord Wallace's comments which I can quote to him will understand

that the ability to reconcile the provisions of the Ministerial Code,

with the imperative of information to the people of Scotland is one

where I think assuring that the White Paper will contain the

information, consistent with legal advice, provide a satisfactory

solution wards. There is clear ladies puet about that legal advice.

If voters a opt for independence, they may well find out we have lost

the rebate. We are forced to join the euro. That is the reality. That

is the consequence, that is the consequence of the First Minister

is wrong, so when is he going to get clarity thon? When he is going

to start negotiations, discussions, with other European Union members,

about the way ahead in this? Because we need clarity. It can't

just be a step in the dark based on his assertions. I am perplexed, not

for the first time, that I thought the call was for the Government to

clarify through the publication of a legal advice, the issue in these

Ke question, he seems to be doubted the legal advice even before its

publication, I do think the process of publishing the White Paper

consistent with legal advice will SATS fip even Willie Rennie in

terms of... I have heard a number of extraordinary scenarios put

forward, and the most popular was there was lots of countries across

Europe, some who were itching to stop Scotland being a member of the

European Union. Well, nobody said that, it is something that has been

said before, we have been told that the Spanish were waiting to object,

to an independent Scotland continuing in membership. Can I

therefore point him to comments on the Spanish Foreign Minister, in

the 24th of February of this year. There is too much chuntering.

parties agree... Order! Order. First Minister. He could win a gold

medal fortune tering in my opinion, presiding officer. If in the UK

both parties are consistent with the constitutional order written or

unwritten, Shane could have nothing to say. No-one would object to the

consented independence of Scotland. If that is what the Spanish

minister can bring himself to say, surely the leader of the Scottish

Liberal Democrats can find it within his heart, to see the

commonsense behind the position, that Scotland will be unequal and

independent European nation. What is the Scottish's Government

position is of only having one carrier between Scottish airports

and Heathrow? Our link remain vital for tourism. The Scottish

Government wants to see a restoration of competition, on the

routes between Scotland and Heathrow and would like to see that

as soon as possible. I Thank him for his answer. Does he agree the

passenger duty would increase competition on Scottish route, and

be beneficial not only to my constituent, in Edinburgh western,

but to Scotland as a whole? Yes I do. There is an urgency in this

matter, I will be discussing the issue of aviation policy, the

committee meeting in London next yeebg week. I know the other

devolved administration share my view, the Air Passenger Duty would

be an important weapon, in terms of attracting more direct flights to

and from Scotland. Even if there were to be a up in run away at

Heathrow and that is a matter of some extraordinary debate, within

the coalition and indeed within the Conservative Party, and the

timescale for that would be extended, and elongated, it

wouldn't solve the difficulty we have, that when Heathrow is clogged

up, as during the Olympics, then it is not just a case of people having

difficulty getting to Scotland, people are deterred from coming to

Scotland, as a result of that extraordinary coalition in the

Heathrow hub. Therefore, we need more direct flights. One of the

ways to ensure getting more direct flights is to use Air Passenger

Duty as an important means of doing so. That has broad support across

the devolved an straition, extraordinary support among the

cannier, it was one of the recommendations of the Calman

Commission, and I would hope that I can carry the support of this

entire Parliament, in making that case in London next week. The First

Minister is wear of the take over of bmi and the resultant lack of

landing slots available to carriers other than British Airways and the

damaging effect this is having on business connectivity to London and

elsewhere from Glasgow. Does she share my views that this lack of

competition on this route is now unfair, as well as damaging to

Scottish interest, and can he tell Parliament what he can do and is

prepared to do to help restore competition and connectivity on

this route? Well, I share these concerns about the need to restore

competition on the Glasgow to Heathrow route. The situation is

different to Edinburgh and Aberdeen, as BAe have been operating since

April 2011. It should help the situation as far as Edinburgh and

Aberdeen is concerned. Now, this month the Scottish Government rated

support for the implementation of the competition remedys in relation

to Edinburgh and Aberdeen. We will raise our concerns about the lack

of competition on the Glasgow to Heathrow route, and what seems to

us, the mounting evidence that that has been detrimental to passenger,

in terms of available space, and in particular, in terms of the prices

that people are being asked to pay. So John Scott can be certain that

this was subject and the evidence of what has happened to the Glasgow

Heathrow route since the absence of competition will be very much part

of the presentation I make to the joint ministerial meeting next week.

Thank you. In promoting this policy of cutting Air Passenger Duty to

stimulate more flights, the minister this week and visit

Scotland admitted to the committee they haven't even bothered

exploring the compatability of this policy, with the legally binding

climate change targets. Will the First Minister agree to do what he

agreed to do and write to the committee on climate change asking

them to investigate what the climate change policy would be

before he promotes it further? is our responsibility to put

forward estimate and that we will do so, can it put it to Patrick

Harvie, if we take a commonsense and I accept his position, that if

you have a direct flight, between two destinations, and in many cases

could be more efficient in environmental terms than having to

take two flights to the same destination. Now, I would have

taught there is a fairly commonsense argument in both

environmental and business teamer terms but I accept we should build

that evidential case and that is our responsibility and we shall do

so. To ask the First Minister what steps the Scottish Government is

taking to address the growing demand for food banks? It is clear

from the recent citizen advice Scotland publication voices for the

front line that the damaging cuts to welfare being imposed by the UK

Government are having aing intive impact on the most vulnerable

people in communities and placing them at greater risk of poverty.

The report underlined the urgent need for decision about welfare to

be taken here in Scotland. The Scottish Government is preparing

and doing what we can to protect Scotland from these Tory policies,

within the powers we V for example, we are working closely with Local

Authorities individually to develop new arrangements for the Social

Fund, which will better support those who find themselves in crisis,

and have to rely currently on the food parcels. Thank you. The reason

most often given for needing a food parcel is benefit issue yet it was

also due to unemployment. The Scottish Government has important

powers to assess job creation and could do more to promote the living

wage. So when will the First Minister set out his plans with to

use the new powers and resources he is getting specifically on crisis

loans to tack -- tackle a situation described as Dickence yab but which

the particle uld should regard as a call to action? Obviously we are

having the discussions with cause ya for, with the view of publishing

what we are going to try and do, and I think he should give thought

to it it was through the discussion we found way to mitigate the

harmful impact of the council tax rebate cuts which have been

transferred of course, council tax benefit to Scotland, but done as

everywhere else with a 10% cut in the overall amount and the work we

are doing with cause la to protect people against that cut, I think

should get some acknowledgement. That is the same we will do with

looking with cause la to look at the Social Fund. I'm going to say

to Drew Scott. The belief. I beg his pardon. I was going to say to

Grew Smith. The belief we have the ability, to change and mitigates

and transform, the whole range of when fit cuts that are coming down

the road from the UK Government, is not possible. The UK Government's

benefit cuts as envy sapblgs and Margaret Curran made the point last

week, when saying that they are going to have a brutal e-- brutal

effect in Scotland, are of o a consequence which is outside the

capability in terms of the budgets that we have, and the solution to

it, and this is what Labour members had better understand the solution

to it, is to have control over these matters, here in this

Parliament, so we can devise policies for the benefit of the

Scottish people P -- people. To ask the First Minister how the Scottish

Government will ensure that colleges are in a position to

respond to the rise and demand for student places. Well, the despite

the cuts which the UK Government is making to the block grant we, are

continuing to fund college in a way that will allow them to main stain

student number, alongside that, and this is a crucial commitment,

unprecedented across the island, that every 16-19-year-old is

guaranteed an offer of a suitable place in education or training,

through the opportunities for all programmes P We have had the news

there are more than 10,000 students on waiting lists for college places.

According to John Henderson of, the first ministers's Government cut

the college teaching budget by 8% last year and 10% the year before.

According to Larry Flanagan General Secretary, he said "It is clear

there has been a reduction in funding to colleges, and no amount

of slight of hand on the part of the Government will alter that.

Given the soaring demand for college places will the First

Minister ensure that college's budge set protected from any

further cuts? College places are still available. One of the college

mentioned in the herald as having a significant waiting list is

advertising place a across the national press, across a broad

range of sources, the key commitment that we have given and

we shall stick to, is that we shall maintain and sustain student

numbers, 116,000 over the coming year, and that in against the

circumstances of budget cuts is a extraordinary commitment we had

yesterday, the ability to look at the comparison of numbers employed

in Scotland's colleges and full- time equivalent basis this from the

colleges, over in Scotland and England and in Wales. In Scotland,

over the period that this Government has been in office,

there has been a rise of 217, in full-time equivalent staff employed

in Scotland's colleges, the position in England, is a fall of

18 thousand -- 18138. That is a 2% rise in staffing in Scotland,

compared to a 13% decline in England. So given that the ravages

that, the Conservative Government with its liberal allies is

implementing on the colleges in England, I think many people might

think that Murdo Frazer has a bear faced cheek and a brass neck, as

posing as a champion of Scotland's colleges. That ends First

Minister's questions. And there we are. That is the close of First

Minister's questions. That really interesting question and I am sure

that others will be looking at this, the question raises by Ruth

Davidson about NHS appointments and the cancellation thereof, Mr

Salmond saying a resolution under way. It sounded as if he was

acknowledges there will be had been problem, he stressed there were

less than south of the border. The biggest controversy over will would

or would Scotland not be a member of the European Union on

independence, Mr Salmond stressing all the full details of the

Scottish Government position will be in the White Paper, we expect

that October 13th one year out from the referendum but the same time