14/12/2011 Politics Scotland

Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up on the

programme: The new anti-sectarian bill will be

passed at Holyrood this afternoon in the face of fierce opposition.

Unemployment in Scotland is now higher than the UK total. The First

Minister wants a UK jobs summit. Scottish Labour say that's a red

herring. And here at Westminster, as well as

the economy, it's Europe that won't go away.

Unemployment in Scotland has risen and the rate is now higher than in

the rest of the UK. The latest figures show more than 220,000

Scots are now unemployed. Our Business Editor Douglas Fraser

joins me now. I'm also joined by the political editor of The

Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday, Eddie Barnes. Douglas, it can you

tell me more about the state of things at the moment? We expected

unemployment to rise. We have government cutbacks and the private

sector employer that is very cautious because of the state of

the eurozone, they are holding off on hiring people, so they are not

taking up the slack in the way the Government hoped they would. In

Scotland, 220,000 more people between August and October were

seeking work during those three months. Only one part of all the

Nations and Regions of England had as sharp an increase, that was

eastern England. He says got them dislike it worse off than the rest

of the UK average, that is true -- Scotland is worse-off. It is also

strikingly close to the UK average. We are talking about a 0.5% of the

workforce seeking work during those three months -- 8.5%. We are pretty

close to the UK average. I think that is the bid worth stressing.

The other way of looking at it, is those on unemployment benefit. A

lot of people are looking for jobs but don't see it that allowance. If

you look at that, it fell last month by 500 to 143,000. Did all

the figures that we have got today, it is the only one that is positive

-- in all. Where are we with youth unemployment? There was a lot of

concern last month. It was a breakthrough for the whole of the

UK, going through one million and it has increased. We have more

analysis of the data from the Office of National Statistics which

shows that Scotland's youth unemployment is substantially worst,

23%, that is nearly one in four young people looking for work

during this period. The problems are similar north and south of the

border but it is of the same scale, nevertheless it is a bigger worry

for Scotland, particularly because we have got these people not in

education or employment or training. It is a bigger tale in Scotland in

terms of it is harder to get in to imply that if they don't have these

skills. Eddie, how does this play politically? Before, when the

figures were better than the rest of the UK, the Scottish government

could take credit. What is happening now? You are right, the

link between the lower unemployment rates and as the Scottish

government solid, their work on infrastructure and boosting

construction, they made that link pretty clear -- as the Scottish

Baba Ahmed saw it. Obviously, that has taken a hit today. He hasn't

been able to come out and say, look, the plans are still working. The

opposition parties are taking full advantage and pointing out that

suddenly, the statistics are going wrong that he has to take the blame

for that. I think credit and blame are interesting issues. If you look

at some of the polling done around election time, what tends to happen,

went people's living standards drop, they blamed the UK Government

rather than the Scottish government. It will be interesting to see if

that Pan soured when the trend continues. Douglas, the retail

figures came out today and they are pretty gloomy as well. The Scottish

retail consortium, they are saying the monthly figures for November

are the worst for they have seen in 12 years, 1.3% down. If you take

food out, they are 3% down. From the retailer's point of view, we

are being told to be more careful about borrowing and spending so it

makes sense for some people to pull back, but the Christmas spend is

crucial for retailers and they have the advantage of one extra Saturday

compared to last year, so they hope Christmas Eve could make the

difference to get the figures up. Douglas and Eddie, thank you very

much. The big story at Holyrood this

afternoon is the stage-three debate on the controversial Offensive

Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Bill.

Our political editor Brian Taylor is there. It sounded as though the

First Minister was pretty determined to go ahead with

legislation as is. But very determined would be the answer.

There was a surge in the early stages for consensus and it looked

as though it might be possible in the aftermath of troubles that was

seen in a Scottish football, particularly the Old Firm last

season, but the consensus has evaporated. The opposition parties

see the shape that has finally emerged as being a necessary and

possibly damaging, particularly with regard to football.

Threatening communications first novel, the idea that material that

could cause beer or alarm through the post or online -- Fiat. And in

regard to football, offensive behaviour, sectarian chanting, etc.

That is what is particularly drawing contention. Opposition MSPs

are saying you can handle it by legislation and it may make things

worse if football fans feel victimised by this legislation.

Alex Salmond is saying that is not the case at there is a gap in the

law which requires bloody glad he is very vehement indeed that the

sort of behaviour is not be tolerated -- requires a plugging.

We couldn't get any MSPs to get on the programme, there will be 100%

attendance and the Chamber. Does the party feel slightly under siege

at the moment? There is a running vote taking place, because it is

staged three, with various amendments, so there will be a

running vote under way. They vote on the amendments at various points.

You are never quite sure where one of those amendments is going to

come, so sensible whips in all of the parties want all of their MSPs

mustard around their aprons, so they can deploy them if necessary.

Do you think the SNP government are looking at the criticism and ever

regret going full steam ahead with these proposals? Dear get the

impression they were bounced into this? -- do you. Self bounced if

you like, they thought there was a huge problem. Alex Salmond points

regularly to the advice given by the lord advocate and the police

saying there is a gap in the law with regard to behaviour at

football grounds that courts don't always deal with in a uniform way,

for example a breach of the peace prosecution. As a consequence, Alex

Salmond believes it can be filled. Secondly, it is stiffer penalties

regarding threatening communications, it is five years in

jail for that one, a much tougher penalty. Thirdly, that there is

this more general point of the nature of contemporary Scotland,

that Parliament should send a message with regard to that.

Opposition MSPs are saying you can send the message, we all say we are

against and -- sectarianism, but this is not the right Bill to do it

and could be harmful. It will be tested in practice. Scottish

ministers are open to the idea of reviewing the way this works at the

two football seasons have gone by. Ministers are also saying this is

not the end of the matter but the beginning and there will be further

initiatives in the field up tackling sectarianism through

education and I expect one of those as early as next week. Brian Taylor,

thank you very much. With the studio is Eddie Barnes. We were

just talking about the SNP government being bounced or self-

bounced into this legislation. Do you think they ever regret going

full steam ahead? I think that question can only be answered at

once the powers come into law and we see them being implemented.

Clearly, this isn't what they wanted today in Parliament, they

wanted to get a consensus from opposition parties and they haven't

got that. In fact, they have got a united opposition. The test of that

will be when it comes to being implemented, when we actually see

what happens at Dyfed makes any differences and if the fans feel

victimised -- and if. And what the reaction will be inside football

grounds to the new legislation. That is the moment it will be

tested and that that point, we will see if they regretted. The proof of

the pudding will be in the eating. As Brian Taylor was saying, that

ministers were considering looking at it two seasons down the line.

think that is quite sensible, because nobody knows at the moment

exactly what the reaction is going to be. We do know from people who

have looked at this that there are existing laws that we have seen

people prosecuted successfully for offences in and around football

grounds, so with our people can be prosecuted. The question is whether

this is going to add something or worse for the Scottish government,

if it is actually going to cause more harm as the opposition parties

are saying. That a two-year test is probably necessary. When you see

football fan speaking, they are quite often unclear as to what the

legislation means. Is that a good law if people are not sure what

they can and cannot do? That is the problem about thought it was

interesting yesterday were the Scottish government sent out a

press release which specified what this wasn't. It said this will not

stop you using harsh language when it comes to another religion or

another belief system. They are actually having to specified that

this isn't a complete and utter stop on your right to free speech.

That in a sense is admitting to the problems of the interpretation of

it. It boils down to implementation. If the fans and people around

football can see this is being implemented in a sense will stop

then the question will become of what was the point? Is the Scottish

government going to have the back this up with a wider and he

sectarian initiatives, rather than just having this? -- and he

sectarian. That is the one thing in Parliament there is concerns about,

these proposals, the bigger issue remains and that is about attitudes

and did not so much about law and penalties and five-year prison

sentences and how do you change Scottish society? That is a bigger

task. Some of those points are included in the Labour Action Plan,

the anti- sectarian initiative, which has about six months after

these proposals. Is that a bit cynical? They are politicians, they

need to show there is something there that explains their

opposition to these laws. Perhaps they may have learned a lesson from

the alcohol Bell, where they were seen to be far too oppositionist --

something and say this is what we would back instead. Perhaps they

are learning. Eddie, thank you very much.

Let's go live to the chain that Holyrood and the commentator there

is Sarah Patton son. Bash chamber. We are in the amendment stage of

these final debates, there are 10 amendments this afternoon. We

should get them finished within the hour. The Conservatives want a more

defined list of what constitutes offensive, but the SNP government

believe that is too prescriptive and she would be constantly

changing the law to include more offensive chants and S MPs have

already voted on that first and ended and voted that down -- MSPs.

Also, another suggested amendment was for the public to be consulted

if the new ball was changed in any way and there are various technical

amendments. At the moment, David McLetchie is speaking to his second

technical amendment, which is so the legislation does not clash with

Behaviour which is expressing hatred, stirring up hatred against

members of a religious group or cultural group with perceived

religious affiliations etc. All the statutory aggravations are offences

aggravated by hatred, dislike, stirring up hatred against people

that are members of a particular religious group or affiliated to a

social group with perceived such affiliation. How can we have a

aggregation of something that is already an offence? It makes

absolutely no sense at all. That is exactly of course why the

instructions are contained as they are in the Lord Advocate's

guidelines. What I seek to do is to bring this on to the face of the

bill so it is not just a matter for guidelines. The minister very

fairly says, yes, but we still won the guidelines to applied to the

generalised offences. -- still want. That is where we fundamentally

differ. I think this built should not have generalised offences and

should be specifically focused on the behaviour that it was

introduced to address, which his behaviour of an anti-sectarian

nature. So as before, there is a fundamental division of opinion on

this and I will be pressing my amendment to the vote. The question

is that amendment number two be agreed to. Are we all agreed? We

will move to a vote. The period for voting is one minute. STUDIO. OK,

this is where the MSPs start milling around. They are chatting

away. There has been a great deal of disquiet about how the laws will

work in practice and the bill has already been amended by the

Government at committee stage. They put in an explicit freedom of

expression protection. So if you are preacher standing on your

soapbox saying that the world is going to end, then you cannot be

lifted by the police. They may also include hatred based on somebody's

age or gender. And also a formal review of the legislation after two

for football seasons. After this amendment number two, Roseanna

Cunningham, the minister in charge, as a technical amendment about that

future review which actually allows legislation to be amended. David

McLetchie there, just waiting. That is his particular amendment.

Talking to the First Minister, Alex Salmond, over the chamber. Now the

vote. The vote is as follows. Yes, 14. No, 101. There were no

abstentions and the amendment is therefore not agreed to. We now

move to Group Three. I call amendment No. 3... A STUDIO: OK,

this is number three. That is Roseanna Cunningham, the minister,

and it allows the legislation to be amended in the future. That was

after two football seasons, the review that they promised. The

Government says that the main thing is that the police and the courts

have asked for additional tools to do their jobs because they believe

the existing law falls short. Let's cross back to the Chamber to hear

what the minister in charge has to say. The Government has given a

clear commitment that we will consult on any substantial changes

to be made using these powers. The amendment is intended to make clear

that where necessary, for example to assure compliance with the law,

which we are obliged to do, section 15 can be in regard to a type of

behaviour in section two. Persons must be present in sufficient

numbers for public disorder to be likely to be incited as a result of

a kind of behaviour. I move amendment three. David McLetchie.

Thank you. David McLetchie speaking against the motion. In an

extraordinary way, this demonstrates exactly what is wrong

with the bill. Essentially what is happening in this amendment, and

indeed with the other amendments, which were launched at stage two,

which is... I think we will leave the chamber proceedings there. We

have another seven amendments to go. Thank you. David McLetchie speaking

there. Let's have another quick chat with Eddie Barnes, political

editor of Scotland On Sunday and The Scotsman. When will this

legislation come into force? Well, it requires Royal Assent, which

usually takes four weeks to come through. Normally we would expect

it to come in at the end of January. I think this is potentially a very

important point, that has got his Government has to handle well,

because the last thing they would want would be a huge fanfare to be

made about these plans coming in, and to have that reaction the

following Saturday, at whichever football ground it happens to be.

There is a danger that this whole legislation could face that type of

response from a football crowd, which leaves the police in a

position where they cannot arrest 20,000 people. It requires careful

handling as to how it is brought in. Will it be brought in before the

end of this football season, I wonder? We have got no clarity on a

Scottish Government on that and it is an interesting point. The media

will be watching as well. absolutely. That first week has the

potential to be quite tricky for the Government so it requires

careful handling. How does the handling of the anti-sectarian

problem by the current Scottish Government compare to the previous

Jack McConnell administration? think what he tried to do was much

more on the educational, social changes. There are high profile

photographs of the cardinal, with the Moderator of the church of

Scotland, but the trouble with that was it did not seem to be going

anywhere. There was a certain loss of patience among some of the

people involved in it. And also that sense that somehow faith

groups and religious organisations were almost being blamed for

sectarianism, rather than being seen as people that could help to

solve it. It just ran out of steam. This legislation almost stands out

on its own. If you remember, it was a reaction against the scenes that

we saw in April and May. They were unprecedented in their ferocity, in

terms of the death threats against Neil Lennon and others. You saw it

at the Old Firm games. This stands out on its own. The question of how

you take on the jack McConnell the agenda, which is still waiting to

be picked up, remains to be asked. I think it is quite pertinent.

Thank you very much. Let's get some more reaction to this now. We are

joined by Graham Pearson from Labour, former director of the

Scottish crime and drug enforcement agency, and by the political

commentator George Kerevan, who was an SNP candidate at the last

Holyrood election. George is in the Edinburgh studio. There have been

many questions as to why we need these new laws. The police asked

for them. Do you think it is a power grab by the police? Should it

be the democratically elected representatives that decide what

laws should be made? It is a democratically elected people

making the laws. It is happening in technicolour this afternoon. I

think there comes a time when you look at what happened at the Old

Firm games last year that mainstream Scotland has to say

enough is enough. Sometimes you have to pass laws to make it clear

to everybody that we cannot go on as we have. For all of my lifetime

there has been big victory going on and we have swept it under the

carpet and it is time to change that. -- bigotry. It is a shame

other parties cannot get behind it. Graham Pearson, your former Police

colleagues have asked for these laws. Why are you not supporting

them? Essentially I believe there are better ways of resolving the

issues that we are dealing with just now. George mentioned the

goings-on at the various football matches. In the last four years at

Old Firm games, there are fewer than a dozen fans arrested and an

absence of violence at these Games. What we need is for the football

authorities and the clubs to take responsibility for managing these

football events, and by ensuring that the minority who are not

wanted at the Games are put out of football altogether, not by putting

people in jail. That is the way to resolve it. It is a sledgehammer to

crack a nut, as Graham Pearson is pointing out. It is drawing a line

in the sand. Of course we need cultural change and Winnie the

education. That has been going on. -- we need the education. I have

paid tribute to Jack McConnell. He was a brave politician and he

deserves credit for starting it. But it cannot just be talking and

talking all the time. We need something very definite. I am

surprised by the degree to which the opposition have stood on the

sidelines in this one. I think that is wrong of them. I think it is

very sensible for Roseanna Cunningham to say that we will try

it for two years, hold out for consensus and try it for two years

and if it does not work, come back. That should be enough to bring the

parties around the table. The fact that they are still saying no shows

they are a little bit pusillanimous. Why are you on the sidelines? You

knew this would be passed with the SNP majority. Why have you not

decided to be more constructive and mature about this? We have tried to

be more constructive. We have tried to add some advice on how to take

things forward. The SNP's understanding of consensus is that

they have their own way from the start and they deliver what they

initially set out to deliver. We do not even have an SNP spokesperson

here to defend the situation. What we have tried to suggest is that we

have laws that are currently being enforced and people are being

arrested, prosecuted and sent to jail where appropriate. What we

need to do, and George was quite right to acknowledge Jack

McConnell's contribution, for five years we have done nothing about

sectarianism and we should be pressing all the right buttons to

make sure that when clubs misbehave, they face the penalties. When fans

misbehave, they should face the penalties. But it is not for the

justice system to sweep up all the ills of society. On the one hand we

have a justice minister saying there are too many people being in

present. On the other hand, we have an amendment to a bill, where we do

not have a clear view of what the offences are. Labour has put

forward proposals six months after the original proposals were

published. Is this a cynical attempt to be constructive? Not at

will. At stage two I set out the main planks of that proposal.

Roseanna Cunningham was good enough to acknowledge that it was a

positive contribution. But not once has anybody spoken to me about the

detail of that contribution from the Government, or taking any of

the elements on board. And there were 12 stages within that action

plan which taken together would rid us of sectarianism and we would

make sure it was done in a positive way. It is not a healthy society

that merely delivers laws because the police once them. George

Kerevan, that was Labour's attempt to tackle sectarianism at the root

problem. Is that better than putting focus on football songs?

we have to do both. I would be worried if anyone in the SNP

claimed to have a monopoly of wisdom on this. We have to work

together. It is not just a question of society. Sometimes we need to

stand up and say, we are being counted and this cannot go on. If

we look at the terrible things that happened last year, his problem is

not going away. It is a dramatic problem and it is in our midst. The

educated people have swept is under the table and we cannot do that

anymore. It is not true to say that the current legislation was working.

We have breach of the peace laws because the way they have been

interpreted by the courts have meant that they have often back-

pedalled on using these laws to combat bigotry. It is now 10 to

make a big statement and we need to do that together. -- it is now time.

Thank you. A group of football fans have been prevented from watching a

sectarian debate in a Scottish Parliament because they were

wearing gritters T-shirts. They closing spelt out fans not

criminals and they were banned from We will be live at Westminster

after the Prime Minister's resounding No to the rest of Europe.

There were roundly -- rowdy exchanges between David Cameron at

Ed Miliband at the last PMQs of the year. Rising youth unemployment was

one of the key issues. Here is a flavour of the debate. The whole

house will have had, he cannot deny, the central economic claim that he

made that the private sector would fill the gap left by the public

sector and it has not been that, he has broken his promise and today's

figures confirm also that youth and imply that not only remains above

one million, it is still rising -- youth unemployment. And long-term

youth unemployment has gone up by 93% since he made his new year

pledge on jobs. Isn't the reality that he is betraying a whole

generation of young people? won't take lectures from a party

that put up UK unemployment by 40%. That is the case. Even his brother

admitted the other day that youth unemployment was not a problem

invented by this government, it has been going up since 2004. Let me

explain what we are doing. Through the youth contract, we are

providing 160,000 new jobs with private sector subsidies. With

250,000 work-experience places, half of those people are actually

getting jobs and getting off benefits within two months. That is

20 times more effective than the Future Jobs Fund. The absolute key

to this is getting the economy moving. We need a private sector

jobs. And it is this government that has got interest rates down to

2%, that is why we have the prospects of growth, whereas his

plans offer more spending, more borrowing, more debt, more of the

mess that we started with. Speaker, the truth is that his

promises to young people for next year are as worthless as the

promises he made in 2011. Let's turn from his broken promise on

jobs to his broken promise on the coalition. Mr Speaker, let me say

it is good to see the Deputy Prime Minister back...

CHEERING. This is what he said... Calm down,

calm down. This is what he said in his new year's message for 2011, I

will place at a copy of the library of a house so everyone can see it.

He said coalition politics is not always straightforward. But I

believe we are bringing in a whole new style of government.

Bath. -- There is more. "and a more collegiate approach." I am bound to

ask, of what has gone wrong? I well and serve. Look, no one in this

house is going to be surprised that Conservatives and Liberal Democrats

don't always agree about Europe. Let me reassure him, he shouldn't

believe everything he reads in the papers. It is not that bad. It is

not like Webb Brothers, are already thing.

CHEERING. He certainly walked into that one!

It was a better deal for Britain that he should have got and that is

what the Deputy Prime Minister himself says. Here is the truth.

Last week, he made a catastrophic mistake. This week we discover

unemployment at its highest level for 17 years. Mr Speaker, this

Prime Minister thinks he is born to rule. The truth is, he's just not

very good at it. Even the soundbite was recycled from a previous PMQs.

So on Wednesday, the answer was no, today, I think the answer is maybe.

This leader of the Labour Party makes weakness and indecision an

art form. Now, he was giving me my end-of-year report. Let me keep --

give him his. He told us that the start-up year in his message that

the fightback started in Scotland. said he would cut the deficit, we

haven't seen that. He said he would stand up to vested interest but

back the biggest strike for years. We all know he has done one thing,

he has completely united his party. Every single one has asked Santa

for the same thing a, a new leader for Christmas. Let's stay at

Westminster and joined David Porter. -- and join. On Twitter, the Prime

Minister was said to have done well at PMQs. Is he managing to control

the European issue? The final PMQs of 2011 aback think he will be

relieved that the way it went. Two issues dominating PMQs, Europe and

the economy, added some ways, those two issues can fight together --

and in some ways. To discuss that, I am joined by four observers of

the Scottish political sweet -- seen. Jo Swinson, buried their

cloud -- Mary MacLeod, Cathy Jamieson and Stewart Hosie. Jo

Swinson, we really should start on the economy. Today's and imply that

figures, however look at that -- however you look at them, bad for

the UK and bad for Scotland? It is deeply worrying, that is why it is

important that everyone works together. The Scottish government

have responsibility for many aspects but of fears that the

coalition government with the Liberal Democrat secretary of state,

very keen to get out there and find solutions -- obvious that. We have

been holding summits, bringing together employers and colleges and

young people to try and get particularly young people into work.

We know that youth unemployment is the most damaging and that is why

the recently announced youth contract to get young people into

jobs are other very much for four by the Liberal Democrats, is such

good news. -- very much fought for. We need to get people into jobs

that have fully reverse these numbers. Mary MacLeod, a week after

week, David Cameron says that unemployment is a terrible waste.

Youth unemployment in particular. But month after month, the figures

are going up, there is no sign of it turning. We are certainly

looking forward to doing something about that right now. It is

something we inherited but need to do something about and that is why

we have put money into doing things like work-experience and

apprenticeships, making sure that we change the welfare system so

that young people are doing work experience and apprenticeships and

it counts towards them gaining experience to go on and get a job.

We did our how critically important it is. I also think we should, and

the media can help other tour Cup Britain in terms of what we can

deliver and the great skills that we have -- talk up. Cathy Jamieson,

from the Labour point of view, or to some extent it is a free hit in

political terms, but it is a brutal fact that if the jobs are not there

you cannot just create them. This is too important for it to be as

simple free hit politically, although I will make a number of

political points. 25,000 more people on the dole coming up to

Christmas, a youth Anna Blyth it at crisis levels. We are seeing

unemployment levels at crisis levels for the over fifties as well.

We are losing jobs in the public sector fast the that jobs and the

private sector are being created and Labour has been arguing for a

change of course or the five-point plan we have been putting forward,

getting people back into work, back into the construction industry and

infrastructure and a real focus on youth unemployment. The one thing I

will say is I will welcome the -- appointment of the youth employment

minister, I think that is a welcome step but it is not meant to be

enough. Stewart Hosie, you would not been that some of those

comments. Your government is responsible in Scotland -- you were

nodding. It now has higher and imply that than the rest of the UK,

what can your cover would be doing? A bit is a bandit is a

disappointing and there is a balance -- it is up and it is. The

Scottish situation is reversed, there are more private sector jobs

created than public sector jobs lost but that does not hold the

fact that across the UK, it is reversed. And with 50% plus the

youth and in private, these are extraordinary figures. All

governments need to do everything. There is an opportunity to make

sure children and youth gets training and apprenticeship but the

key thing is creating jobs, whether it is direct capital investment and

I think the Chancellor was wrong in refusing to be profiled and hand

direct capital investment to create jobs now. If things are bad now,

Stewart Hosie, if the euro implodes, they are going to be a whole lot

worse. He is Britain in a better place now than a week ago before

David Cameron invoked the veto -- is Britain. No, we are now or

isolated. I want the euro to survive and be strong because the

recovery will largely be measured by exporting into a strong eurozone

and a strong EU, so we need less of the Petit euro-sceptics sniping

from the sidelines and as much support as possible to make sure

the euro survives and is strong and we can export into the growing

European car economy for the benefit of Scotland about the UK

and the rest of Europe. Cathy Jamieson, if Ed Miliband had been

there, would he have invoked the veto or signed up to the deal?

Let's be clear, our veto means to stop it going ahead. The others

have gone ahead without us. What Ed Miliband has said repeatedly is he

would have stayed at the table to try and negotiate a better deal and

it seems that Michael Moore is in support of our position now. The

important thing is we cannot allow things simply to be a sombre side

like not having a voice at the table, -- bus on the sidelines, and

the danger is that is what is going to happens. Mary, some people on

the Conservative backbenches are happy about what has happened. They

want to see this as the start of repatriating more powers from the

EU back to Great Britain. That will cause tensions for your party.

don't think so. There are various using the party about Europe but

one thing the Prime Minister was right about his standing up for

British national interests. He said he was going to do it and he did it

and that was right. In terms of the particle but we have all said that

most others want more powers repatriated to the UK -- in terms

of the party. Europe has too much control. We want to be it -- a

strong partner in a single market but we want to make sure we have

Alliance sovereignty and make our decisions and are not constantly

overruled by Europe. You were critical of the Prime Minister on

Monday, you thought he could have done a better job of negotiating.

Have the Liberal Democrats been bulldozed in the coalition? Not at

all. I think the Liberal Democrats are providing what is a very

essential remembrance for the coalition government, that, as

Stewart says, at trade with Europe is so important for the economic

recovery and been engaged with EU partners is vital. The Cabinet

agreed just yesterday that there would be a proactive strategy of

real engagement with the European partners. Liberal Democrat

ministers have been building these alliances to try and the regulator

and help British businesses and their Iraq like-minded crunchers

across the EU -- there are like- minded countries across the EU.

Crystal ball gazing time, is the euro going to survive in 2012?

very much hope so. We did have a crystal ball but it is not out of

the bloodshed, there is still be possibility with the political

wealth -- we are not out of the project but with the possibility of

the political will, I really hope it will. I hope we have a strong

British economy and more jobs with less and imply that but I do not

have great hopes for the euro. -- employment. The consequences are

that collapsing would be devastating for the economy.

there is proper support for the sovereign markets in Europe, it

will survive. If it doesn't, we may be in serious trouble. All love you,

thank you very much. So there you have it -- all of you. Hopes that

the euro will survive, but not everyone is so sure. David Porter

at Westminster, thank you very much. So as we've been hearing,

unemployment in Scotland has risen again to 8.5%, taking it above the

UK average of 8.3%. Another worrying figure is the number of

young people looking for work. Latest figures show just under a

quarter of 18-to-24-year-olds in Scotland are unemployed. So what's

it like for young people who are struggling to find a job? Hayley

Jarvis has been finding out. It is pretty difficult. Really

searching hard. Matthew is 18 and looking for work. He wants to

become a joiner so has enrolled on a course in Glasgow, where

craftsmen help young people pick up new skills. That he feels employers

are not interested in his generation. -- Matthew. Workplaces

are looking for experience, we have not got it and be any way to get it

is did have a job. I want a chance to get experience. Kieran, also 18,

has been trying to get a job since May. What does he think the

Government can do to help people in his position? We need funding so

that training can go on longer. It is just a short period of work to

17 year-old Glenn Campbell has been job-hunting for five months. He

said he is struggling to pay his way. I have no money with my

friends at the weekend. I just have no money. There is not much out

there and not much help either. Glasgow, the 16-18 year-olds are

getting help to find work at the Glasgow Regeneration Agency. For

Fraser Michie, one of the most frustrating things about being

unemployed, the boredom. There is nothing to do at the weekend, so I

end up doing stupid things like getting drunk. I just don't do

anything. Rachel is also 17 and left school in May. She wants to

work with animals. She said that repeated not backs are affecting

her confidence. -- knock backs. is at an all-time low. I think I

have done well but I never have. Thomas has been looking for a job

for six months. He just wants an employer to give him a chance.

is quite annoying. A means you cannot get any job at all, unless

you go to the JobCentre, and even then lots of the ones that you find

there are just work experience. you need someone to give you a

break? Basically. To discuss employment figures further, I am

joined by Amy Dalrymple from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce.

Thank you for coming in. There was concern from your chief executive

about the number of young people unemployed. What is the story from

businesses down on the ground when it comes to youth unemployment?

is businesses that will be creating jobs for them. Business is the only

sector with the capacity to do that and you can see that if you delve

into the figures. Private sector employment has actually gone up and

the decrease comes from the public sector. It is really important that

businesses are supported to create these jobs. There is a lot of

uncertainty in the economy and businesses need help and support

from the Government. That will give them the posh, the incentive, to

create jobs for our young people. - - the plush. That is what we are

calling for. How can that help be targeted? National Insurance

holidays, for example? No. We are doing a lot of work on skills as

part of this got his Government reform proposals. One of the things

that we will be calling for will be employability money that is spread

around the training providers at the moment to be directed more at

businesses, so that the businesses themselves are in control and can

use that money to take in young, unemployed people, giving them a

chance of getting a job, and saving the tragedy that we see today of so

many looking for work, on the scrapheap at the age of 20.

quarter of 1824 year-olds are unemployed, which is a lot of

people. -- 18-24 year-olds. Are you impress that there is a new youth

unemployment minister in the Scottish Government? I absolutely.

We welcome the fact that they give it such priority that they have

appointed a minister. I will be seeking an early meeting with her.

Alex Salmond has looked at a meeting between the leaders of the

devolved Nations and the UK Government to come up with a plan.

Angela Constance has expressed a willingness to meet with businesses,

but because it is businesses, because it is the private sector

that has the capacity to create jobs for people, it is really

important that there is proper engagement going on there. It is

not just something that the Government can help within

isolation. You have got to engage with our members, really. The Prime

Minister was emphasising that point at PMQs today, that private

business has to create that. We have seen a fall in the number of

public sector workers as well. Our business people too scared to move

forward, too scared to invest? The economic situation that we are

facing is frightening for lots of people. It depends on which sector

that you look at. Some sectors are doing better than others. There are

lots of problems with skills in some sectors. In other areas, the

British Retail Consortium released figures yesterday, and they are

struggling and they are worried. If you are struggling, you have not

got the confidence to take on the investment that a member of staff

can be. Total sales fell by 1.3% in November, falling at the fastest

rate since they began compiling those figures 12 years ago. It

looks pretty gloomy on the High Street. Yes, it is a continuation

of the ferry unoptimistic trend, I have to say. -- very. A Christmas

and how much people decide to spend will be crucial. We are seeing the

same figures that we have seen for seven months, with people shopping

online, supermarkets buying for increasingly canny customers.

Shopping habits are changing. The Mary Portas report on our high

streets was released yesterday, and it looks at towns and retailers

needing to adapt to a new shop a mentality. We will be doing lots of

work with our members based in towns. Not just retailers. It is

across the business sectors. But it does include retailers. We want to

make sure that businesses can adapt to the economic situation that we

are still finding ourselves in. Dalrymple from the Scottish

Chambers of Commerce, thank you for joining us.

Let's go back to the chamber once again. MSPs have been voting on the

new anti-sectarian legislation. They have voted through the

amendments and now the debate is starting. Our commentator is Sarah

Patterson. Thank you. We have finished all the amendments. The

Green Party MSP is pushing to ensure that the Scottish Government

has to consult the public no matter how minor the change to the bill.

That has been voted down. But he did win an agreement that the

review that is going to be carried out after two football seasons will

be debated at that time by MSPs. The minister was suggesting a

curious technical change. The legislation stated that British

citizens would be affected, but of course that had to be changed to

Scottish residence. On all of the opposition benches they are

unanimous that they will not support these new laws. The

Scottish Government is saying that it is the new step towards tackling

the scourge of sectarianism. We have had the amendments and now we

have the meat of the political heat in the closing debate. Roseanna

Cunningham, the minister in charge, is on her feet in the chamber.

I attended the Joint Action Group Meeting at Hampden. The SPL, backed

by the SFL and the SFA have agreed their proposals to tackling

unacceptable supporter conduct, promoting higher standards of clubs

and introducing a new, independent sanctioning regime. So we are

seeing new, focus action from the police and we will seek tougher

standards for football clubs applied by the football authorities.

What of Government? The critical role for Government in his

partnership is to make sure that the law is fit for purpose. -- in

this partnership. The question was asked whether current laws are

adequate to ensure the unacceptable behaviour we are seeing is stopped.

A fundamental change was not required, but the expected vice was

clear. The laws could be improved, both in terms of tackling sectarian

and other offensive behaviour at football matches, and

communications in particular on the internet. This simple point seems

to have been lost in what I think is a fog of denial and sometimes

apparently wilful misunderstanding. James Kelly. I thank the Minister

for taking intervention. The minister cites this as the view of

the Joint Action Group but it was also the view of the football

club's that action needed to be implemented. Football clubs know

perfectly well that they should get their house in order. The advice on

the experts was clear. A change in the law would assist police and

prosecutors in stamping out this most visible form of sectarianism.

In the face of this expert advice, the Government's responsibility to

act was clear. We have always fully accepted that this was about

evolution, not revolution in law, sharpening the tours are -- tours

are available and not getting a new ones. It is very difficult to

reconcile the view that these measures add nothing to the

existing law and are therefore an necessary, with the idea often

expressed in almost the same breath that they are unworkable and not

liberal. Roseanna Cunningham speaking about the new anti-

sectarian legislation. I am joined for the final time by our political

commentator for the afternoon, Eddie Barnes. We have spoken quite

a bit about the anti-sectarian legislation. Let's go back to one

thing that we are discussing, the European Union problems that David

Cameron face. Do think he managed to deal with the issue at PMQs? --

do you think? He will be delighted by the way it has transpired. Today

he managed to treat it as a joke because it did dispute between him

and Nick Clegg was not a dispute between brothers. I think he will

be more than happy about the way things have transpired. It does

seem that he has the support of the British people, which I think he

was pretty pleased about. Most people are not following up the

technical ins and outs of exactly what it was to use the veto for and

what the EU were proposing. We know from opinion polls that people in

Britain are rather euro-sceptic and they saw him coming back having

stood up for Britain, as he described it. I think that has

played well, but whether it will play well over the coming months,

we don't know. The eurozone is in a complete state of flux. Nick Clegg

said that he wanted to re-engage with Europe. On that technical

point, when it comes to using the veto, as it been explained clearly

enough exactly what was happening? People were mystified about what

was going on in Brussels that night. Absolutely, not least the British

delegation's themselves. They were not aware of what was happening as

the midnight hours ticked away. These are fiercely complex issues.

Not only did we have to take into account British politics but 26

other political situations in all of these countries, all of which

came to play around that table. It is fiercely complicated and it all

boils down to a simple calculation, which is that David Cameron is seen

to have stood up for the country and at that moment it was seen to

be popular. We are heading into the final week before Christmas but one

major event is still to happen before Saturday. Yes, as the

Scottish body politic stumbles, exhausted, towards the new year, we

have got the Labour leadership result on the Saturday before

Christmas. Their next Thursday, just before Christmas itself, the

new leader has to stand up for First Minister's Questions, in

their first outing as the new leader. The money at the moment is

that Ken Mackintosh and Tom Harris will be pipped at the post. We will

see. What would it mean for the Ken Mackintosh has pitched himself

as a fresh-faced, someone that can connect with someone outside the

party, and not necessarily traditional Labour supporters. The

problem is that nobody knows who these people are. They are up

against somebody in Alex Salmond he everybody knows. That will be an

initial problem that they will have to face and combat in 2012.

this contest been inspiring? It was announced a week before Christmas,

when lot of people will not be paying too much attention to it. As

it caught people's imagination? really has not. We had the

Conservative contest before this. It was operatic in the way that it

went forward. But this one has been quite the dirge. Thank you for

joining us. Thank you for your company this afternoon. That is all

we have time for today. Join us for our final programme of 2011 next