18/05/2016 Politics Scotland

Good afternoon and welcome to Politics Scotland.

Nicola Sturgeon reshuffles her Cabinet - John Swinney goes

to education and Derek Mackay is the new Finance Secretary.

The State Opening of Parliament has taken place at Westminster.

The Queen's speech included 21 Bills, but only a brief

And here at Westminster, with the EU referendum looming,

how many of the Bills proposed in the Queen's Speech will ever

Well, Nicola Sturgeon has reshuffled her Cabinet team.

In advance of the changes, Richard Lochhead and Alex Neil,

two senior Cabinet Secretaries, stepped down from office.

Earlier, the First Minister was sworn in at the Court of Session.

This from our political editor Brian Taylor.

It's about this, the great seal of Scotland, symbol of power. I declare

and affirm that you will well and truly serve Her Majesty Queen

Elizabeth... It is about this, the Lord President accompanied by 14

other judges administering the oaths to Nicola Sturgeon as First

Minister. She assent to high office with a nod. He noted she now faced

arduous challenges. First challenge, a Cabinet reshuffle. In advance

Richard Lochhead stepped down as Rural Affairs Secretary, and Alex

Neil left his post at social justice. Ms Nicola Sturgeon praised

both. Those remaining in office were called to Bute House. First to

arrive her deputy, John Swinney, who moves to education. Billed as Ms

Sturgeon's top priority. Next Derek Mackay, promoted to Cabinet to take

charge of finance, including new tax powers. Fer ussue joins the Cabinet

for the first time, in charge of rural affairs. Keith Brown takes

economy, the other half of John Swinney's former finance brief

divided. Angela Constance takes charge of new welfare powers.

Roseanna Cunningham, environment, Fiona Hislop at culture. Two new

faces and six Ministers in new roles.

Our correspondent, Glenn Campbell, is at Bute House watching

Anything that surprised you there? Well, two men out, two men in,

allowing Nicola Sturgeon to keep gender balance in her Cabinet.

That's not a surprise. Neither is the promotion of Derek Mackay, who

takes over as finance, including taking charge of the Budget and of

taxation. Perhaps more of a surprise the promotion of Fergus Ewing, who

was business, energy and Tourism Minister but now has a full Cabinet

role as Minister for rural affairs and connectivity, which includes

transport, with a big decision on which company on which company -

CalMac or Serco - will run ferry services to the West Coast islands

and on the Clyde. A big role too for Keith Brown, who is now in charge of

economy. And that includes a decision on energy licensing. In

effect he will be the one to decide whether or not Scotland allows

fracking, once further testing and research has been carried out. Those

are some of the big changes at the top level. John Swinney perhaps the

headline, remaining as Deputy First Minister but taking on

responsibility for education, which, as Brian pointed out, the First

Minister has build as her top priority for the next five years.

Particularly reducing the attainment gap, to reduce that for young people

from poorer backgrounds against those from wealthier backgrounds.

John Swinney will take on that responsibility with the former

Education Secretary, Angela Constance remaining in Cabinet, and

taking charge of the new welfare powers that are coming to Holyrood.

Just on education, you mentioned the appointment of John Swinney and that

that might be the headline news from this. Are we to take this as a big

signal, Nicola Sturgeon, she did pretty much stake her First

Ministership on closing the attainment gap between people from

less well off backgrounds and people from better off backgrounds. Is this

a signal that they really are serious about this? I think it is.

She says that she wants to be judged on the Government's achievements in

this area. Either in those circumstances you do the job

yourself, which wouldn't be traditional for a First Minister to

take on a specific role within Government rather than to oversee

the whole operation. I think she's the next best thing, to appoint the

person perceived to be the safest pair of hands in the Scottish

Government, John Swinney. He has had a massive role as Finance Secretary

for the past nine years. He will now focus his attention on education and

will be tasked with reducing the attainment gap, the measure which

the First Minister says she wants to be judged on. Thank you for that.

The Daily Record's political editor, David Clegg, is my guest today.

Did any of this surprise you? The talk had been that John Swinney

would be moved to the education brief. I wasn't completely convinced

that it would happen, because of the nature of the new powers coming to

the Scottish Parliament around tax in particular, I thought having been

Finance Secretary for nine years and steered the fiscal framework

negotiations around this, he might stay there. But I think Nicola

Sturgeon has made a declaration of intent that she is going to follow

through on this pledge that education is her number one

priority. So you wouldn't take this as a demotion for John Swinney, but

a -- Nicola has said she thinks narrowing that attainment gap and

dealing with what appears to be an education system which has been

struggling over recent years, tackling that will be the priority

of this parliamentary term. Having someone who is widely respected

across the political barriers in charge of it makes that clear.

They've been bringing out, they haven't got specific proposals other

than testing, but they've been showing signs of not just thinking

in terms of let's throw more money at it. They've been talking about

things like, let's look at the London Challenge, and the way that

turned around schools in London. They've hinted they might look at

different ways of governing skills. Necessity can be the mother of

invention. The strain on schools, teacher numbers are down, they don't

have the same classroom assistants and resources as they had ten years

ago. They do look like they want to make a material change to the way

particularly primary schools here, if we are going to deal with the

attainment gap, operate. They've shown a willingness not to be idea

logically constrained. This is going to require difficult conversations

with teachers, with trade unions, with parents. If you are going to do

a massive... When he was in a minority Government he had to get

tough budgets through. He is no pushover this those kind of

discussions. So I certainly think that if they are serious about this,

he's is the man for the job. Now, you've within writing all week about

affairs, senior SNP people, Stewart Hosie and Angus MacNeil allegedly

having an affair with the same woman, but not at the same time. The

SNP has denied anything is going on wrong. But in the broader picture,

is this just a bit of summer gossip or do you think it will have a long

term effect on the SNP? The major problem it causes is that Stewart

Hosie, the SNP's Deputy Leader, effectively Nicola Sturgeon's number

two in the party, has separated from his wife over these revelations. And

his wife is the Health Secretary and one of Nicola Sturgeon's closest

friends. There is no doubt this is putting pressure on friendships at

the very heart of the Scottish Government. Government. Those are

professional as well as personal relationships, so there's a

legitimate concern that attention could be distracted by system of the

things that's gone on. Yeah, but on the other hand David Cameron might

say, oh my God I wish I had a scandal to deal with, I've got

Michael Gove and Boris Johnson going around the country on the opposite

side of the European debate. It might cause a bit of awkwardness but

nothing like what I'm facing Et They don't have an EU-style division, but

this is quite a significant scandal of these types when people can say

it is just gossip or largely personal matters. But yesterday it

overshadowed Nicola Sturgeon's being re-elected as First Minister. It

also was playing a little bit to the reshuffle today. Shona Robson, one

of the cast of this scandal, is the Health Secretary. She has kept her

job as Health Secretary. Don't go away. We'll be with you shortly.

Meanwhile, in Westminster the State Opening of Parliament

The Queen set out the Government's programme of legislation

It included 21 bills, but only one mention of Scotland.

My Government will continue to work in co-operation with the devolved

administrations. To implement the extensive new powers in the Scotland

Act and establish a strong and lasting devolution settlement in

Wales. My Government will work in Northern Ireland to secure further

progress in implementing the Stormont House and Fresh Start

agreements. Members of the House of Commons, estimates for the public

services will be laid before you. My Lords and members of the House of

Commons, other measures will be laid before you. I pray that the blessing

of almighty God may rest upon your counsels. There were fears the

earlier that David Porter would have been in the rain and might have had

to be rushed indoors, but he is basking in the sunshine. This

Queen's Speech, before we go on to the Scottish stuff, people are

saying they've ditched a lot of stuff because of the euro

referendum. What's that all about? I will have you no I'm not made of

salt, so I'm going to be very brave. If it does Raneleigh get wet. But

this is a Queen's Speech which is in some ways like no other than I have

seen before. We've had the normal pomp, the ceremony, where pomp,

ceremony and politics all mix. But this is being overshadowed by the EU

referendum. It is totally overshadowing everything in UK

politics at the moment. We had an extraordinary situation even before

the Queen's Speech was delivered this morning. We had the former Work

and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, who wants to leave the EU,

coming out and trashing his own Government's Queen's Speech by

saying that things like the sovereignty bill and other bits of

legislation were not going to be in the Queen's Speech, because David

Cameron did not want to stir up any an most of ir up any an most of the

on his -- any animosity on his own benches. It is true that whatever

else is happening in politics at the moment, as regards the EU

referendum, the Conservative Party here at Westminster is split down

the middle on this one. As days go by the rhetoric is ratcheting up all

the time. Yesterday we had Lord Heseltine, a former Deputy Prime

Minister, coming out with some strident criticism of Boris Johnson,

questioning his judgment and questioning whether he could ever be

Prime Minister. They fighting already about this one. You do get

the impression that this whole Queen's Speech has been put

together. It is pretty anodyne and they are trying to take anything

controversial out, because they know at the moment the Conservatives

cannot really agree on what day of the week it is. OK, Scotland didn't

figure highly, but was there anything at all? Well, we heard the

reference to Scotland there. That was in light of the constitutional

developments. The Queen basically reading the script provided by David

Cameron, in which she says that the UK Government wants to work with the

Scottish Government. Critics of the UK Government have been quick to

jump on this, saying only one reference to Scotland. This is a

missed opportunity, there's a lot more in practical terms that could

have been done to help Scotland. The UK Government says of the 21 bills,

a dozen or so in full or in part will in some way affect Scotland.

They point to things like the bill which will come in to guarantee

superfast broadband. They say in practical terms that is something

which will affect people in Scotland, in England and Wales, and

it is very important on a practical level. They also say as well, you

ought to expect this. In their words, the big things are happening

in Scotland. They say with the Scottish Parliament it's always had

responsibility over health, over education, over transport, those

type of things. But with the extra powers granted in the Scotland Act,

more financial powers are going to Holyrood and more will be in the

pipeline. They say that as time goes on, it would only be right and fair

to expect the Scottish Parliament to be enacting more legislation. Not

just on those health and education matters, but on finance as well,

which will affect Scots. David, thank you for now. I believe will

you be back with us later with most of the contents of the House of

Lords with you. David Clegg, it is quite an extraordinary situation if

it is true, as David is suggesting, that first, or the second year of a

new Government effectively they have to pretty much bin their legislative

programme in case anyone inside their own party might disagree with

it because of the European referendum. It certainly feels like

a Government on pause at the minute. The double part of that I guess is

that as David pointed out there a lot of the measures don't apply to

Scotland. The Scottish Parliament becomes more powerful for what it is

in charge of. Even if you are looking at it on a UK-wide level

there is nothing dramatic there. Almost everything included in it we

already knew about. The Liberal Democrats claimed 28 or

38 measures in the speech we knew about already. When your cabinet is

at war over a constitutional issue it is difficult to get much

governing done. I wonder if there was a case to leave it until after

the referendum in a few weeks and hopefully they can get back to

business as normal after that. That was my next question, can they get

back to business as normal? It seems to be getting nastier and nastier on

both sides of the Remain and Leave people. It is within the

Conservatives' party and getting more and more bitter, can they patch

it up afterwards and say, that was fun, let's get on with it? It will

be very difficult. We saw in Scotland after the referendum that

it had left a lot of bitter feeling for a long time and they weren't in

the same party. There is a lot of talk about a repeat of project fear

and resentment on both sides but if you think about the Scottish dynamic

during that, it was Alistair Darling's political opponents for

example, or David Cameron's, saying that they were making up lies, now

it is people within the same cabinet saying, he is making up nonsense.

How do you go from that to sitting in government like nothing has

happened? To use the cliche, time will tell.

Alyn Smith, Adam Tomkins,... Now, let's go to the

Scottish Parliament. Waiting in the lobby

is Alyn Smith from the SNP, Adam Tomkins from the Conservatives,

Labour's Iain Gray, the Greens' Alison Johnstone,

and finally Alex Cole-Hamilton Alan Tomkins, what do you make of

the reshuffle? John Swinney going to education is the eye-catching one,

it reinforces what the First Minister said, that she wants

education reform to be a centrepiece of this government. John Swinney is

somebody whom I think has proved is capable of working with parties

right across Scottish politics and I worked with him on the Smith

Commission and didn't always agree with him. Iain was also on the Smith

Commission. He was always prepared to listen to argument from across

the Scottish political spectrum and we need that in education reform, we

need to take some of the politics out of it and as the First Minister

said yesterday there are good ideas on education from across the chamber

and John Swinney is the eye-catching appointment. Iain Gray, presumably

one of the things... I think the Scottish Government has already said

that they want to reduce the attainment gap, they are actually

going to give us measures where we can judge whether they have done

that. Is that something you would be looking for, so we know it is

successful not just by the rhetoric but by the facts? I agree with Adam

that John Swinney is Nicola Sturgeon's biggest hitter, so his

move into education is a sign that they are serious about trying to

sort out education, but he inherits a pretty big mess. Only this week we

have seen pretty trenchant criticisms of the new exams, we know

that Scottish teachers are balloting on industrial action, so he has a

lot of problems to sort out. You ask how we measure success, the SNP

problem has been that by all of the measures we have education has not

been successful over the nine years of their stewardship am so John

Swinney, yes, a sign that Nicola Sturgeon is serious about education,

but he has problems to get to grips with very quickly. Alyn Smith, if we

can get the camera to swing around to you. There have been suggestions

that this is just hot air. Can we expect to see the Scottish

Government telling us how they expect to be judged on the

educational attainment gap, give us benchmarks by which we will know

whether the effort is having any effect? We stood on the platform of

putting education front and centre of the economy, we now have a system

to put that into practice. I am delighted to say that Alan Tomkins

-- to hear Alan Tomkins say that they will take the heat out of

education. Education is a challenge in Scotland, a lot of work to be

done, but we have made a lot of progress and that will be judged by

a lot of criteria but we are in a minority situation, we will be

working with the other parties and John Swinney is absolutely good to

do that. Are you looking for the Scottish Government not just to say

education is a priority but to tell us exactly what they plan to do and

how the public are going to be able to judge it? The public are very

aware that teachers feel their workloads are unsustainable and

unmanageable, they are under more stress than ever, and the potential

for standardised testing to be introduced is added to that and we

have a lot of problems. We have targets in education, another target

that the government has consistently missed is the climate change target.

We welcome the policies on climate change and land reform. There are

some shifts side woods but we are never oppositional for the sake of

it. -- shifts sideways. Education is a medium where there are many good

ideas across the chamber that we want to see put into practice. I

come back this about how we are supposed to judge it because there

is a massive track record of not just the SNP government but other

governments saying, we are going to do this and that and it will be

wonderful honour but we are never given hard evidence that any of it

has worked. The SNP are slightly obsessed with targets and metrics.

The OECD issued a report last year saying that mathematical attainment

in Scottish schools had gone from some of the best in the world to

just about average, indicative of the transformational --

transformational investment we need to put into education to close that

gap. The lid tends -- the Lib Dems wanted a penny on income tax.

Including national testing is the last thing we need and unfortunately

-- unfortunately it will be left to parties like the Liberal Democrats

to do the running in opposition to these unwanted national tests. Alyn

Smith, the camera is just swinging around to you.

Alex has mentioned mathematics and the OECD measures. There has been a

lot of talk about educational attainment by pupils from deprived

and better off grounds and getting that gap down, but also a general

recognition that Scotland, while it is still quite good, has gone down

the International league tables. Has it been your ambition to get them

back up the league tables in the way Alex mentioned? One thing Scottish

politics has too evolved beyond is statistic swapping. One of the

difficulties with education is that it is measured to death and we need

agreement across the chamber about how to measure progress. The OECD

statistics are taken as fairly authoritative and the problem with

saying statistics swapping... We will get back into saying, things

are better because we say so. Parents want to know how we can

judge? The obvious one would be to get back up the OECD league tables

in mathematics. That would be won but there are many others. Nicola

Sturgeon has made a real offer to the other parties to work

constructively for the best of Scotland education, closing the

attainment gap, making sure we get back up the league tables and do

better and we have made progress but there was a lot to do. John Swinney

will be working with the other parties about what is needed to be

done and putting that into practice. I hope the other parties will be

working constructively on that and not point-scoring because this is

more important than that. Alan Tomkins, on the constructive working

wealth, there is a lot of this, national testing for example, that

presumably the Conservatives would agree with. There is not much the

SNP are saying you would disagree with, you would like to see more

self-governing schools? We want to see a cultural shift in Scotland in

terms of who runs Scottish schools. In Glasgow which I represent, more

as a parent than a politician, the idea that glass go City Council

knows best what schools in my local community need in order to serve

those communities is risen above. -- Glasgow. Local government and

education reform need to go hand in hand. It is interesting that public

service reform has been added to the Deputy First Minister's grief, an

indication that the SNP are least prepared to consider coupling some

kind of reform to government within Scotland, decentralisation,

devolution within Scotland, within the context of education. We want to

see schools having more autonomy, we want to see teachers having more

power over budgets, hiring and firing, rather than the education

authorities. It doesn't matter whether you call them academies of

free schools... Iain Gray, Alan Tomkins I think is broadly

sympathetic to some of what the SNP is trying to achieve. Is Labour? Are

you in favour of the new national tests? We don't know what they are,

Nicola Sturgeon told us they were one thing... You remain open to

being convinced? We have a working group working on a national tests at

the moment, we remain to be convinced. If we want to improve

attainment in our schools, we have lost 4500 teachers from our schools,

that is the problem. The problem is not who governs the schools. If John

Swinney is going to try to improve our education system or schools by

turning them into the Tories and introducing free schools and

changing governance of schools, five years from now I promise we will be

standing here talking about the same problems. We have to stop cuts in

our schools, begin to reinvest in them and support our teachers. They

are the ones... You are saying something that flatly contradicts

what they have done to schools in England which seems to be remarkably

successful. Absolutely. If you are talking about academies, I think the

Academy programme has not been successful. There is a fair bit of

evidence saying that those schools that have stayed in local authority

control... I was making a more general point. Alison, perhaps you

could take this up, that the general data that we have seems to show that

English schools have caught up and in some ways overtaken Scottish

schools. That is because actually the investment in schools has

increased over the past five years, significantly more even under the

Tories than we have seen in Scotland under the SNP. Alison Johnstone, you

don't agree with anything that the SNP are saying, do you, you don't

agree with national testing? We don't. Let's look at one of the

often quoted countries, Finland, one of the best systems in the world.

They are not tested in the same way they will be here and there is a

great concern that when you start testing those figures will get into

the hands of those... Alex, you don't agree with testing either,

because you ran a system of testing under the Coalition Government in

England? Not one bit. Introducing testing drives a coach and horses

through the good work that has been done through the curriculum, built

around experiential teaching. We have teachers teaching to the test.

In a discussion about education we can't ignore the crisis in further

education. The SNP presided over 152 thousand college places lost. We

want to work with other parties to do that -- to overturn that

otherwise we will lose those further education places. A shot of you all

looking marvellous. Thank you very much indeed.

The Daily Record's political editor, David Clegg, is with me today.

We had report after report from Audit Scotland saying whether it was

in education or health or other areas it is difficult to measure

whether any progress has been made, because proper statistics aren't

made available. And it is difficult to see how you can do that without

more testing. Is SNP have said there'll be some form of testing but

pupils will not be judged. That's still ambiguous. They seemed to be

saying initially they would publish SATs test results but there were

some weasel words, that they wouldn't be the raw results. They

would be supplemented by an assessment by teachers, which then

turns them into being suggestive doesn't it? Absolutely. And you've

got to presume if some form of schools being judged against each

other will creep into that, at which point the teacher's subjective

judgment has outside pressures on it rather than an objective look at how

the pupil is faring. All of these issues are difficult. On top of that

the central problem that Iain Gray is focusing on, at a time when

budgets are being cut, they've already lost 4,500 teachers, how you

improve standards with less teachers and less money and no consensus on

how you judge that you are achieving that. That's an issue. And it is

whether a hare has been let loose. I remember Labour Health Secretaries

saying to me how frustrated to me that the NHS in Scotland produces

masses of statistics, but they found it impossible to get ones that could

tell new a simple way, is this unit in this hospital doing well compared

to another unit in another hospital that's doing much the same thing and

is doing badly? People may sell say if you are going to do this big

openness and transparency campaign in education, can we have one for

the health service. Absolutely, and if it is the attainment gap and

narrowing that, you have to compare schools against schools based on the

level of deprivation in postcode areas. How you can do that without

testing is difficult to see. David Porter is still, I hope, in the

sunshine. He is joining us from Westminster. You are in the

sunshine? Not quite sunshine but it's not raining, so let's look on

the bright side of things. Let me introduce the panel. Lord Purvis for

the Liberal Democrats, Lord Foulkes for Labour, Joanna Cherry for the

SNP, and Lord Dunlop for the UK Government. Andrew Dunlop, it is a

very simple question. One mention of Scotland in the Queen's Speech by

the monarch. What is in this Queen's Speech for Scotland? This is a

Queen's Speech based on economic security, and the lifetime chances.

Things like the digital economy bill has will make the UK a world leader

in digital. And also helping those on low income tax for example save

for a rainy day. Very practical measures. But the point I would make

is in the last session we passed just before the Holyrood election

the Scotland Act. The big task now is for the UK Government to work

with the Scottish Government to implement the powers that are going

to make the Scottish Parliament the most powerful or one of the most

powerful devolved Parliaments anywhere in the world. Joanna

Cherry, the theme there is don't be surprised if there is not a lot in a

Westminster Queen's Speech now that Holyrood has more powers. It is

rather a disappointing and underwhelming Queen's Speech. It is

indicative of the fact that the Government are obsessed with

infighting about the EU referendum. A ragbag of measure was a lot of

stuff recycled from the Qbag of measure was a lot of stuff recycled

from the Queen's Speech last year - the Bill of Rights, the victory

powers bill, which is already making its way through the Commons. I

didn't see anything of great reference to Scotland. I welcome the

moves on broadband and the digital economy bill, but it will not do for

the Conservative Government to say more powers are been devolved to

Holyrood and the UK Government doesn't need to worry about the

Scottish Parliament much. We welcome measures to grow the economy and

make Britain fairer and a more equal society. What I'm talking about is

this. The Government have failed on key economic indicators and even the

targets they've set for themselves in relation to reducing the debt and

the deficit. It is time they recognised their austerity agenda

isn't working, and the IMF has recommended growth in the British

economy, will be benefit the whole of Britain, including Scotland.

George Foulkes, you have been in Government. You know how departments

have to fight for slots in the Queen's Speech. About the process of

devolution, are you surprised that was so little blatantly about

Scotland in this speech? No, because as has been said, most of the powers

have been devolved to Scotland. We might have had included. But I

thought it was a very, very strange Queen's Speech. The Government has

made the Queen look like Alice in Wonderland. When she said, we'll

continue to keep public finances under control. Under control? When

the debt has doubled under the Tories. And then continued to

eliminate poverty. Poverty is going up, because poor people are having

their benefits cut under the Tories. What we are facing now in Britain

and the Scotland in particular, in Scotland we are facing double

austerity. Direct austerity from a Tory Government, and second hand

austerity from an SNP Government. What we ought to be doing is taxing

the rich in Scotland now that we have the powers. Nicola Sturgeon and

her new Ministers are not willing to have a 50p rate of tax, which would

bring in some money to help people in Scotland. So I'm afraid double

austerity today in Scotland and in London.

Jeremy Purves, are you surprised at the lack of explicit references to

Scotland in this? Or is it a natural consequence of devolution? I do

accept the argument that there are measures such as digital broadband

that affect all of the UK and I hope and expect the Scottish Government

and the UK Government to be working together for this, because Scotland

needs it. As much as the UK economy needs a boost, boy does the Scottish

economy need a boost. Almost every single Scottish Government economic

target has been missed by the Scottish Government, so there's a

big expectation of them. It is a very anaemic Queen's Speech. I

wouldn't be surprised if this was the one of the very last year of the

Government. This is only effectively the second year of the

administration. It shows that without there being a big push for a

morale agenda, perhaps the Liberals had contributed last term, we were

seeing a Conservative Party Queen's Speech which should be one for the

whole of the country. I've seen... The European referendum has taken

many eyes off the ball. We saw that in Scotland lead ing will up to the

Scottish referendum how much of the focus of the Government is on

something else rather than a proper radical reforming Queen's Speech we

should have had today. That is something not just politicians but a

lot of people who know Westminster well are saying about this Queen's

Speech. That to all intent and purposes it has been overshadowed by

the EU referendum. There were Conservatives, former Conservative

Cabinet Ministers before the Queen's Speech had been delivered this

morning trashing it. Before I answer the question about the EU, I must

come back on the point about the economy. The UK has been the fastest

growing developed economy anywhere. Scotland has been one of the

strongest performers. But there are worrying signs. We have had record

employment since 2010 but some of the figures we see today show there

are worrying signed. That is why the UK Government and the Scottish

Government need to work together, using the powers they have to

continue to build on the growth we've seen over the last three

years. And that for example is why we are working very well with the

Scottish Government on city deals. That's that's a practical measure.

We are opening discussions with Edinburgh. The Prime Minister said

only last week we are up for supporting a city deal for the Tay

side region. We need to put all of this into context. We have been very

successful in our management of the economy. But coming to the main

point... You've missed your own targets in reducing the deficit. The

fastest growing economy, why is that missing the target? There are

countries that would give their eyeteeth... We are not here today to

talk about the Scottish public but the Queen's Speech. I'm not

surprised that the party that came a distant fifth and the party that

came a distant third in the Scottish elections seek to turn this into

aspect attack on Scotland. What they need to accept, we had a fight about

this in Scotland, we had an election. The SNP won it a couple of

weeks ago, by a mile. The Scottish people have confidence in us...

Arrogance now. No, the Scottish people have confidence in us to

deliver a strong programme of Government, which we'll do shortly.

What we are here to discuss this afternoon is the Conservatives'

programme of Government. The Scottish Government is happy to work

with the Conservative Government, but the SNP in Scotland have a

mandate not only at Holyrood level but here. As well as being the only

woman on this panel, I am the only elected representative of the

people... You do go on a bit don't you? Let someone else get a word in.

I would like to hear what your party would do about reform of the House

of Lords. If you hadn't make sure that a Tory Government was elected,

which you did, because Nicola wanted Cameron to go bark. This is such

tired old nonsense. We would have a Labour Government legislating for a

it? Of the nations, supported by the Liberal Democrats. You were in power

for 13 years. Why didn't you legislate for that after 13 years.

We are seeing this Tory-SNP coalition is building up. It is

working well... I will book you for future sessions. We'll have round

two in a couple of weeks. It makes it easier for me when you argue

among yourself. Thank you all for joining us this afternoon. I think

we'll book you for future weeks. Weeks. That was very good. Gordon,

back to you. We are a bit down-market, not a peerage between

us. No. Double austerity. He is good at coming up with the phrases. But

it's not strictly true is it, in so far as the Scottish Government

couthing budgets it is because of the settlement from London. He is

right they have more wriggle room with taxes now. Wet could make other

decisions on tax. Nicola Sturgeon in her manifesto said income tax would

be frozen for the next year. We'll see what happens after that. He is

trying to flag up emerging agreement between the Conservatives and the

SNP. We kind of saw a little bit of that with the discussion between the

MSPs. Adam Tomkins was the most sympathetic to what the SNP are

trying to do. The It doesn't suit either side now. Before the election

you saw Murdo Fraser enjoying that they weren't together on taxation.

But now they are going to stand up for the SNP, it is not a good look

if they are constantly agreeing with him, so they may have to Geneva some

splits. On taxation levels the SNP and the Conservatives are closer

together than any of the other parties. That will also be the case

quite possibly on education reforms. The irony of that is the Greens are

maybe the most... Briefly, the Greens, who everyone is talked about

as the potential allies of it's SNP, on tax and on education, they are

about as far from the SNP as you can imagine. Imagine.. It would make the

fracking issue interesting. Fergus Ewing has had the fracking issue

taken from him. You can keep up with the latest

from the BBC Scotland News website. I'll be back this weekend on BBC One

with Sunday Politics.