26/10/2011 Politics Scotland

Welcome to the programme. Coming up to date, a committee in crisis, and

SNP MP withdraws after saying she was threatened by a Labour minister.

And keeping the country running during the wintry weather. And EU

leaders will meet later as doubts grow about a credible solution to

the euro-zone crisis. We're expecting a statement this

afternoon from the Labour Party after alleged comments made by Ian

Davidson, the chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee. It has emerged

last night that Dr A E Y to complain to the Speaker about his

conduct. Let's go and get the latest on the story, first, can you

update us with what has happened? These allegations were put to the

Speaker last night. Today, Labour whips in the Commons started an

investigation and we are told that they were treating this issue

seriously. We understand at least some of the member is, by Labour

members of the Scottish Affairs Committee, recalled to a meeting to

give their version of events last week to see if they could back up

the claims made by Dr White, the SNP member on the committee. She

has alleged that Mr Davidson last week during a private meeting of

the Scottish Affairs Committee said that she would get a doing if

deliberations will lead to the media. Nothing has been said

publicly so far by Mr Davidson, he is due to chair the latest

committee later today, had we have been told a short time ago by

Labour sources that we should anticipate an apology from Mr David

Santh, an apology for any offence caused to Dr White, but we are told

that he denies having made any threat. We hope to bring you some

of those pictures shortly. In the last 24 hours, we try to speak to

all of the committee members, we have spoken to half a dozen or so,

and most of them do not remember that phrase being used. What has

confirmed that they do remember the phrase being used. -- 1 has

confirmed. Today, the First Minister wades into the row. This

is 2011, men cannot make threatening remarks towards women.

Ordinary people know that, and if it applies to normal people, it

must apply to the chair of the select committee in the House of

Commons, and he should apologise and resign. I suppose supporters of

Mr Davidson had been trying to support them. The yes, Labour

supporters said that they believe that there is a smear campaign

going on against Ian Davidson. One member of the committee has said

that this has been our role orchestrated by the SNP, because

they dislike the idea of the Scottish affairs committee looking

at the independent referendum. Jim McGovern had this to say. I was

here at this committee, and the first session was in private, so I

cannot say what was said, but nothing intimidating, nothing

hostile was said by any member to any other member. So, not long

until we find out what will happen. We have been told to expect some

kind of apology from Ian Davidson. That has not come so far. We were

also told to expect a statement from Rosie Winterton, the Labour

chief whip, but we do not know if that will happen or if it would be

superseded by a statement from Mr Davidson. Whether he does or does

not apologise, whether he does or does not admit that that anything

was done wrong, Dr White has withdrawn for that committee and

last night, she said that she would not go back on to that committee

while Mr Davidson held that post. Thank you.

Enjoyed in the studio by a political commentator this

afternoon, thank you for joining us, an interesting story developing at

Westminster, if these comments are true, pretty ill judged. I think if

it is true, and I wasn't there, you were not there, it was a private

meeting, so we do not know, and clearly there are different

opinions from people that were at the committee, ever not judge if it

is true or not, but if that kind of language was used, politics has a

tendency to get into pretty chorus use of language sometimes against

political divides. If it is true, then there is a problem, because

politicians have had problems all over other areas of activities,

particularly Westminster with expenses and everything else, and

the public's tolerance for this kind of language and that kind of

treatment, again, if it is true, is very short now. Thank you.

More details on that story later in the programme. Now, it is bright

and sunny year, at least, and I do not want to depress you, but we

bassoon dip into those dreary, wintry times. Last year we saw

major transport chaos following the biggest snow falls in many years,

and the Transport Minister lost his job because of this. This year,

preparation is the key according to the Government, and the successor

of the Transport Secretary outlining his winter resilience

measures. We can cross now to our commentator in the chamber.

Thank you. Mr Brown is just about to speak Getty said that the winter

of last year was the coldest of many years, and he will update with

the latest measures on dealing with a new winter, hopefully not as bad

as before. We have the highest a matter preparation across the

public sector than ever before. Last year, everyone mucked in and

helped out, and that would be there if needed, but we need to be

prepared for more than just that. We need to be prepared as a

government and across all public sector agencies. On Monday, we

began our public information campaign for getting ready for

winter. Individuals and communities are stronger when they have

themselves and each other, and this year, we want to make it easier for

people to take their own action to prepare. Our first national

resilience campaign has been created in partnership with the Red

Cross and other organisations, but while there is a duty on statutory

organisations to respond, they cannot to everything. No matter how

prolong or severe the winter, there should be no surprise to us in

Scotland. We need everyone to be more resilient at places of work,

at home, in their car, and wherever they find themselves during the

winter. The range of activities and resources that make up this ready

for winter campaign coupled with the relaunch of our website this

week will have to raise awareness of the steps people can take and

the support available to people taking them. The Government has

significant measures to help people to heat their homes this winter

including �12.5 million announced recently to find insulation schemes

across Scotland. There is also an investment in the energy assistance

package and �2.5 million to help replace inefficient boilers and a

commitment to help the fuel poverty programme and carers. We also want

to deliver support for hard pressed homes that may face a difficult

winter. Over all, the energy assistance package has over 200,000

houses getting help. We have delivered using measures to well

over 21,000 homes. Since last winter, the Government has been

preparing, planning and working to ensure we are as ready as we can be

to minimise the impact of severe weather. The winter weather review

group convened by the Scottish Government in the summer published

this report on Monday listing a series of actions taken across the

voluntary sectors and a range of services to improve resilience and

the critical national infrastructure. Just to give some

examples, the Met Office has, for example, improved the weather

Warning Service. We have invested �500,000 to launch online warnings,

a direct service, to improve services to the public with Updates

on various platforms. They have improved the operation of the

emergency arrangements by reviewing the experience of last winter and

that includes revising the staffing and training arrangements and for

developing sharing information between strategic quarter meeting

groups and the resilience room. Some disruption may still be

unavoidable, as severe weather hits. This can happen at any time and you

only need look at the M25 today to see evidence of that. How we

respond to those incidents and how quickly we can recover to them is

the issue, so we would like to highlight the key steps we have

taken in that regard. Transport Scotland has prepared for the

winter with additional equipment and improved information for people

on the move. From first November, 23 additional gritting machines

will patrol the major routes ahead of him during the peak hours and

when there was a risk of snow and I see conditions and in snowstorms.

Specialist equipment, an ice- breaker, footways snow blowers and

ploughs are been given increased capability. As of a first November,

there would be more salt Stockton Scotland than was used during all

of last winter. -- stocked in Scotland. We also have 70,000

litres of the answers that would work in the serious conditions of

below 70 degrees are freezing. -- de-icers. There will be more

traffic and travel bulletins which will increase in frequency during

extreme weather and will be available on computers and

automated devices and any customer care helpline. We have also set up

the voluntary institutional alliance where there will be an

increase in supplies of winter tyres. We have worked very hard

with the police and frayed partners to develop procedures for the

proactive management of Hege GPs and other vehicles in severe

weather conditions. -- HGVs. There will be also a service where lorry

drivers can inform of issues on the motorway networks. A similar

service will also be developed and other operators. We have secured

�2.2 million of a package of investment by its first Scotland

rail for winter improvements and this includes modification to

trains and beating the more alive full -- and making them more

reliable. There will be more gritting four platforms and car

parks and we will be taking the eyes of carriages and tunnels and

high-pressure hot water equipment to remove ice from the Eagles.

Network Rail has enhanced their structures by using remote

monitoring of point teachers and providing protective blankets on

rural lines. -- point heaters. There will be more 4X4 vehicles for

maintenance staff which will help people in getting to work during

times of severe weather. Network Rail has taken action to Richard

Bacon do this. For clarity, will he clarified the measures taken by

Scotland rail and Network Rail are measures being taken at their hand

and does not involve change to the franchise conditions for a formal

legal associations between Scottish Government and those conditions?

There has been a strong collaboration between all agencies,

but these 2.2 million pound investments are investments made by

a Network Rail, Scottish rail, and there is other developments going

on that will help would resilience. It is all done at Network Rail's

own hand. The rail industry recognises the importance of

accurate and timely information and we're working with the rail

regulator to raise the bar on the quality of passenger information

which was an issue last year. Network Rail and in conjunction

with rail freight hauliers well maintained year Ruth for critical

movements insuring critical supplier of food and fuel by rail.

-- will maintain transport routes for critical movement. They are

investing in new equipment which we hope to see in the airports also

shortly. I met with the previous managing director of Edinburgh

Airport and they have the same issue that the Scottish Government

and others had, would be to invest in new capital equipment which may

not be used, and can attract criticism for that, or to make sure

that they have enough resilience, and they have taken the latter

course, had a right to do that. We have been speaking with the ports

across Scotland to make sure they can play a key role. Which they did

last winter. They have invested in any maintenance and purchased

equipment to make sure that they can complete those roles, such as

shipping strategic sought supplies and a ferry links to communities

that may have as much sought stock as was needed last year. I have a

role in relation to transport, but winter resilience does not respect

portfolio boundaries, so we will continue services to those that

need them most and this needs to be the top priority, and this year,

we're working with care providers to make sure that those that are in

need are brought quickly to the attention of those that require

assistance, so we are developing in consultation with resilience

Partners, a protocol to our climb steps that service providers should

follow when considering people at risk. Especially those at risk of

being cut off from electricity or gas for of running out of heating

oil. This will direct activity primarily at a local level but will

also inform or wider Scottish Many sectors played a vital role in

keeping community is running last year, for example mountain rescue

teams and the Army helping to reach people cut off by snow. Land-Rover

also or allowed the Red Cross to borrow some vehicles. We need

neighbours to check up on the vulnerable as well. We will

continue to support those partnerships where possible. We

have developed a national directory of third sector organisations

capable of us -- capable of providing help and support in these

conditions. In relation to making sure that MSPs are kept up to date,

Transport Scotland are writing out today to invite all MSPs to a

presentation to be given by representatives of the trunk road

operating companies on Wednesday. Transport Scotland has worked

closely with operating companies to make sure they are prepared. It is

impressive the amount of work that has been done on the lessons that

have been learned since last year in relation to -- in relation to

the trunk road operating companies in particular. At the time of

severe economic challenges, we have to demonstrate that the

infrastructure and services of Scotland are ready to withstand

severe winter weather. Whether can affect people's personal plans, but

it can also have a major impact on the economy. We believe in the

preparations that we have made. We believe the people of Scotland are

ready for this winter and they have taken heed of the idea that we

should call for the best but plan for the worst in terms of severe

weather. Are ready and capable Scotland is the kind of Scotland

that we'll want to see. In that regard, I am happy to move the

notion in my name. Now some breaking news. The chairman of the

Scottish Affairs Committee, Ian Davidson, who is at the centre of

allegations of bullying, has issued an apology but has denied bullying.

You are watching Politics Scotland from the BBC. Still to come on the

programme: We will reach out with in our communities, door by door,

street by street, in the most unprecedented campaign of

mobilisation and communication by the SNP and in the history of

Scottish politics. The SNP referendum campaign is on a

roll, but when is it actually taking place and what will the

questions be? But first, Holyrood's Finance

Committee has been hearing calls for a review into universal

benefits, such as the council tax freeze and prescription charges.

One witness said no policy should be protected until all the costs

and benefits had been fully analysed. Our Political Reporter

Sarah Paterson sat through a rather bleak financial morning.

Particularly for Professor Armstrong, you have spoken about

the risks associated with and non- domestic rates in particular for

local government, that they would be more dependent on that. You have

said that it will be quite risky because the grant would be

determined on that. But that is not true. The Scottish Government

guarantee the figures outlined in the settlement to local government

and have always traditionally met the short fall in non-domestic

rates. Yes, there is an element of the budget that is not clear as to

whether or not the local government settlements that are run the budget

lines in the departmental budget lines are covered under the same

arrangement. But the budget itself is at risk. If non-domestic rates

income does not come in at the levels forecast. That is what we

are flagging up. That level of increase well above the rate of

inflation, if it does not happen, the overall budget is at risk.

would be the same for the Chancellor in England as well?

Absolutely. We know that the expectation for economic growth at

UK level is significantly lower than was forecast in the Budget in

March. We're awaiting the pre- Budget statement in November, which

is to say whether or not as a consequence of additional payments

to benefits means that we would be facing addition will cuts. And then

the issue of free benefits, like the council tax freeze and free

prescriptions. Do you think Government will be forced to

address these issues through financial restrain its? When one

looks that universal benefits, there was some excellent work done

on universality verses selectivity. A number of the universal benefits

are regressive and those on a higher income tend to benefit

disproportionately. I would suggest again that these issues should be

visited again, as to whether they stand up to scrutiny. I don't want

people to wait until there for us because the budget is 10% less than

we think, I won that to be done openly over the coming months so

they can be an informed debate -- I want. And whether funds can been

released to other essential activities which are high priority

in terms of the impact on the Scottish economy and Scottish

society in these difficult times. am joined by Alf Young. Is it time

to have a look at these so-called free benefits? Who did come with a

big cost for their down the line? think the problem with some of them

is that they are not prescribed in the sense that, if I use a free bus

pass too often, the cost should go up. There has been an escalation in

costs in some of these benefits. For some of these benefits like the

prescription charges and bus travel, it is not just that they're helping

needy people, they are also taking those who are better off out of

having to pay. As the budget going forward get squeeze and is subject

to all sorts of other pressures because of the kind of economic

times we live them, I think there is a case certainly for looking at

what looked like good ideas in the time of plenty, but they may be

look like less good ideas during difficult time is. The Independent

budget review was warning the Finance Secretary about the cost of

these policies. Has John Swinney taken this on board? I am not sure

they have yet. I think the feel quite proud in terms of what they

did with bridge tolls and the free travels -- the free travel scheme

and free prescriptions. Two start unravelling that as quickly as this,

particularly in a time when they're trying to win a vote on

independence, I think it would be difficult for them to go back on it

now. I think they will try to stick with it, if they can. A lot of

people in England complain about -- complain about these so-called free

benefits, but it is up to the Government as to where the allocate

their funding. Other things get less of the pot as an inevitable

consequence, but the Government made these choices. I think they

will find it difficult to move away from these policies so quickly,

especially as they're trying to persuade Scottish be able to vote

for independence. Where do Scott not receive funding where we are

receiving in free buses and free prescriptions? Where are the hidden

costs, perhaps? One as the things that was coming up in the

conversation with the witnesses during the committee is in this

whole area of local government funding. In terms of their

settlement, there is a squeeze there and there are some elements

of their funding, like the revenues from domestic rates and how the us

are allocated. But if the numbers go wrong this way are that and

people are not paying their rates, if the inflation projections on

rates proved to be wrong, then there is a further short fall in

the budget. There will be some shrinkage there. Some of the

services that people expect to have from their local authorities might

be trained in ways that people don't really like. Public toilets

are shouting, for example. If it went further, people might find it

to be something which is unacceptable. Thank you.

The past weekend's SNP conference was hailed as the most successful

yet by supporters. Delegates congratulated each other on their

historic win and wasted no time in getting on board the campaign for

the independence referendum. But what form will the referendum take

and could the SNP be on a risky path with a second question? Our

Political Correspondent Raymond Buchanan took a walk around the

conference centre in Inverness. Even Court Theatre is some place.

This is the main auditorium where the conference is taking place. The

pantomime is coming up soon. There is also a cinema where so many

different stories are told. When parties are in government, normally

the use the conference to make policy announcement, but this party

was celebrating their election when and looking forward to the

independence referendum. By the time we get to the next Scottish

Parliament elections in 2016, we will have had the chance to realise

the dream of generations of nationalists throughout their

history of Scotland. Delegate, I believe that we will win the

independence referendum. APPLAUSE And we shall prevail,

because we share a vision. A vision of a land without boundaries and

where people are unlimited to be free. No limits for Scotland.

APPLAUSE It should be no surprise that the party of independence

favours independence. But what kind of independence?

United Kingdom will be a country bridge has the same head of state,

her Majesty the Queen, and Scotland will be an independent country.

Even if we keep the Queen, the SNP favour the Euro, don't they?

would not see that as an early priority. It would be dependent on

economic circumstances. Want all this talk up Britishness damage

Scottishness? Apparently we are over the hang-ups of the past.

continuing British a -- British identity poses no threat to

people's sense of Scottishness. The complexities of past and present

experience that continue to add to Scottish identity and to its

richness and diversity. It looks like the time is right for the SNP

to embrace a new kind of Unionism, just without the politics. It may

be that there are a whole series of areas where we continue to pull our

interests both with our neighbours and friends in the silence, but

elsewhere in Europe and the world. The key thing is that a Parliament

can make whatever decisions it likes. But the party have an

insurance option. It is a second referendum question advocating more

powers for Holyrood. But some are worried that that risks what was

once as simple independence message for. The primary message should be

to take people by the hand and sure that independence is unambiguous.

The Independent's campaign has started, but the final act will be

some time away. Sit back and prepare for a long wait before

Scotland's constitutional future is finally decided.

I am now joined by the SNP's Derek MacKay from the Garden Lobby at

Holyrood. Moving Scotland forward was the main theme of the

conference there. We are no further forward in knowing anything about

the referendum, apart from Alex Salmond perhaps indicating that a

We are further forward, our vision for independence is outlined. We

have showcased what independence can do for this country, making us

healthier, the stronger, and a more compassionate country, so the

debate is very positive and constructive and Scotland. We have

the vision, but how do we get there? We have already circulated

of White Paper on independence and the process involved. The option of

a multi-option referendum has been discussed in the last number of

years. There is nothing new in that. People can present a solution. We

will campaign for independence and a yes, no questions are the people

of Scotland can assert their view. I do not think that you're

campaigning nicely, according to what was said in that package, the

aim should be to campaign unambiguously, are you not muddying

the Walter Smith a multi-option referendum question? No, we are

campaigning full square for independence, that is our objective,

to make this country better. That is what the SNP will campaign for.

We are also a Democratic Party, we are putting the choice to the

people of Scotland. It is the Westminster parties that are

running scared from the possibility of presenting Scotland's

constitutional future to the people. It sounds like you were forcing the

other parties into presenting a second question, and a Newsnight

yesterday, it was clear they did not want to present the second

option, it was the SNP wanted it as an insurance policy. Some parties

are already moving on from the Calman Commission, the Lib Dems say

they want more to be established. And that was said last night that

they do not want the second question. I am at a loss as to why

they do not want to ask the people of Scotland why and what they want?

They will have the choice of further Paris been transferred to

Scotland, that is positive and constructed -- constructive. In

relation to the Labour Party, some serious figures in the Labour Party

supporting a multi-option referendum, Gordon ground antenna

McLeish to name two. -- Gordon Brown and Henry McLeish. The have

no idea what the new Labour leader would say? I have no idea what they

want to say, but they are at odds and want to walk all over the

Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people. The SNP will

campaign for independence but we are not afraid to put the question

to the people of Scotland if other parties want to bring forward their

proposals for devolution and further devolution. That is an

incredibly democratic and positive position for the party of Scotland,

the SNP, too alkaline. One thing other parties are very clear on is

the ambiguous resolved, what if you get 51 % voting yes to voting Yes

and many people are voting for something else, what happens and

the SNP view on that? A primary- school child understands if there

is a straight yes majority then... What if there is a straight

majority for a Dieselmax? They are saying if he would like a parrot

that Parliament to extended, and now they are asking if you would

like independence, and if not, would you like something else, but

if they vote for independence in the majority, that is what they

would get. These two referendums are totally different, the last

referendum was one question with something else on top, there are

two totally different alternatives. The London party is saying to not

transfer other parties to Scotland and Paris to Scotland and do not

answer the question. It would be a tragedy for democracy if they did

not get the independence of their nation. The debate is about if

people want it, yes or no? I believe with independent support

growing by the day, the people of Scotland will vote yes and we will

have a more prosperous, fair, and just nation. Thank you.

Let's look at some of the issues raised with our political

correspondent, is this an issue with the SNP, this 51 % voting yes

in a referendum on independence, but a higher proportion voting yes

on the other option? This is a huge problem. They are not properly

addressing the problem may be as as their teasing out the option of

independence, there is this other option where there separately

tested against the status quo. Even if the second option is more

popular than the independence option, if they both managed a

majority and the independence majority is a small one, it appears

from read a stand at the moment, that it would still go ahead

because it is a majority. There is another way of doing it. They could

test all three against each other on a single transfer, one-vote

basis, so we have a choice of each of the three options, and the

bottom one drops out and the other two face-off against each other in

the final calculation. They could do that way were we test

independence against what they are having as the other option. The

idea that the second question is like the question refaced in 1997

is nonsense, because the second question in 1997 was a question on

the Paris of this devolved Parliament. If the first question

had not been accepted, if the Scottish people had said we do not

want devolution, the second question would not have happened

because there was no vehicle for it to happen. The issue now is that

they are trying to put both options up saying that they want the other

parties, the Unionist parties to come up with what that the other

option would look like. If the deal is that they come up with the idea,

but even if it gets a bigger vote, he does not happen because

independence is won by a narrower margin. Who in the Unionist parties

will come along and say be well do that? That is a great idea, we will

go along with that. That will not happen. But the SNP want to

continue with the other option as an insurance policy or for whatever

reason and have the two questions? I am not clear. I do not think

anyone is clear what they will do in these circumstances, but the

idea that you have these two votes and that the one with the smaller

majority would still prevail seems to be a perversion of democracy.

Before that stage, do you think the union has party Sarat catch 22 if

they take on the second option or not? -- are at catch 22. Ends of

the Unionist parties are in such a mess over the consequences of the

SNP becoming a majority government at Holyrood. One is in the midst of

an election campaign, I do not think their heads or straight, any

of them, to come up with the answers. -- are straight. For

people looking on, ad that are not committed politicians, members of

political parties, that is most of us, the vast majority of Scotland

are not members of political parties, for most of us, we can't

think that the choice that most people wanted in any situation was

the choice that prevailed. Here we seem to have a proposition that

says no, you can have the votes, but you might find at the end of

the day that the choice that most of the wanted will not prevail

because you say at the other one got over the 50 % mark, it will

prevail. Thank you. Coalition divisions over Europe have

prevented David Cameron from playing a leading role in tackling

the euro-zone crisis. That is the claim of David Miliband in a clash

at Prime Minister's Questions today. He was also asked about the murder

of Stuart Walker in Scotland this weekend. Does the Prime Minister

agree with me that we need not just for Greece and Italy to sort out

there problems and the proper recapitalisation of the European

banks, but also an agenda to help Europe and Britain to grow? What is

necessary this evening is to deal with the key elements of the euro-

zone crisis which is acting as a drag anchor on recoveries in many

other countries including our own. The main elements and decisive

action to deal with the Greek situation and a proper

recapitalisation of the banks which has not happened across Europe up

until now, and the stress tests carried out have not had

credibility. The most important thing is the construction of this

fire wall of this European funds to stop contagion elsewhere. There are

wider growth strategies across Europe which is required, but that

is what was debated on Sunday and that is where the Commission

proposals on the single market, liberalising energy quality, all of

those proposals, they could have been written here in London.

would emphasise that those are long-term measures, but we also

need immediate action for growth and that needs to happen not just

dead European meetings but at the G20 next week. -- at European. We

know that his focus was not sorting out the European crisis, it has

been sorting out the problems on his own side. He said his priority

was to repatriate powers from Europe, which Paris and when? --

powers. Boy one serious question and straight on to the politics,

how typical! Let me be clear, the idea you could go into this meeting

of arguing that Britain should add an extra �100 million to its

deficit is a total joke. In terms of the relationship with Europe,

let me say, the coalition agreement does so dark to talk about

rebalancing power between Britain and Europe. -- does talk about. We

have got this bail-out power back, the bail-out power Betty get away.

My constituency is in a state of shock following the murder last

weekend of the local man, Stuart Walker, a very popular local man.

Will the Prime Minister join me in sending condolences to his family

and admits the much unhelpful speculation about the motivation

for this murder, when he called on local people with any information

to go to the police to help with inquiries? I certainly join her in

sending condolences to her constituents family and what she

said is absolutely right. The police at the public and the public

how the police, the police cannot solve crimes without the help of

the public and I hope everyone will have as much as they can. It was

reported a week ago that the Bank of England had reprimanded one

commercial bank and there may be others that tried to manipulate the

gilts market to exploit but do these things. Could he ask for a

report on this matter and if it is true and we will use the full force

against them if they tried to rip off the tax payer. It is important

to show that there is not something called white collar crime that is

less serious than other crimes. Crime is crime and should be

investigated and prosecuted with the full force of the raw. It felt

like the days of John Major's government as we waited for revolt

on Europe on Monday night. Concerns for aid and -- concerns over any

referendum on that night, and now let's go back to the Scottish

Affairs Committee story and Ian Davidson issue that apology a short

time ago. Yes, that apology came in the last 45 minutes. At the

beginning of the public session this afternoon, Ian Davidson made a

statement saying that he apologised if any offence had been caused by

remarks he made in a private session of the committee last week.

He remained resolute that he did not issue any threats and was

apologising for any offence that might have been caused. It is an

issue that has caused great interest among MPs from all

political parties today, as indeed that issue of Europe. We would do

with Europe in a moment, but I am joined by three Scottish MPs, two

that the present Scottish MPs and one that is Scottish that

represents a sudden Committee. Firstly, Stewart, from what Ian

Davidson has said this afternoon, has he gone far enough for your

party now to return to the Scottish Affairs Committee no, the

allegation was that he threatened to give Dr Eilidh Whiteford a doing.

He was suggesting this was sent SNP is me around he was forced to

apologise. -- this was an s n p sneer and he was forced to

apologise. People are appalled at what has gone on and further action

needs to be taken and he must still resign the chairmanship of that

committee. Alan our, this does not involve your party, but what you

There should never be any circumstances where one member of

parliament should be anything other than courteous and polite to other

members of Parliament. If he has caused offence, he should apologise.

Were hearing that Ian Davidson should fully apologise. Iain has

apologised for any offence that was caused. Colleagues across the House

have to treat each other with courtesy. I hope we can conduct

this dialogue about the referendum that looks like it will come on

separation with respect. But it must also mean that the First

Minister should treat the Scottish people with respect and answer

questions about monetary and fiscal policy and currency. The people of

Scotland deserve answers to this question. The Scottish Affairs

Committee is quite right to begin a dialogue about what separation

would mean. In Brussels today, there is an important meeting where

the European Union is basically trying to stitch a deal together to

get countries like Greece out of a financial hole. How important is it

that this afternoon or this evening they get that deal? We need a final

deal. The future of Europe is that state. One in five young people are

out of work in Britain. 80,000 and stop them. Nearly half the

population of Spain. We need the recapitalisation of the banks. We

need a proper fund that is there to stand behind this debt and make

sure the markets have confidence. We need growth and the need

European nations to recognise that the programme of austerity cuts is

not fully working. Where there is no growth, countries after have

another look at the fiscal consolidation plans. You Prime

Minister is saying to the Euro countries that they have to

consolidate themselves more and have more convergence. How worried

are you that if the deal was not put together that things will get a

issued a man worse? Very worried. The Foreign Secretary and the Prime

Minister are doing all they can to help Europe. We are all in this

together right across the whole of Europe. They do have to be

austerity cuts because part of this crisis has come about because many

countries have been spending money that we don't have. We have got to

see the realism of the economic situation across Europe. David

Cameron is playing that role very well. Posterity or spend our way

out of this? It is about growth. All package that needs to be agreed

is the European Financial Strategy Fund has to be beefed up to give

confidence, the ECB has to provide liquidity into sovereign markets so

that Spain and Greece cannot fall away, Italy has to be resolved,

debt has to be resolved. We have to look across Europe and in the UK

where we are cutting and how we're cutting. If it is as deep as it is

here, it is weakening the potential for growth, which means that even

the target of the Tories cannot be met. I agree with some of that.

We'll see what the problem has, but that has to be some responsibility

taken for how the route -- how the problem are rows and the first

place and that is because public spending across Europe was too high

by countries that didn't have the money to spend, and that was also

done in Britain. Fortunately we're not in the Euro because many of us

fought to keep Britain out of the Euro, but it does not mean that we

are not affected by what is going on. We need to help other European

countries in order to save the economy of Europe as a whole.

partly you're party's fault for spending too much? I don't accept

that. Denmark has put together at �10 billion strategy but its

borrowing powers are less than the UK. We're talking about cutting VAT

and National Insurance to get young people back into work. That should

be the Prime policy for Britain and Europe. How important you think the

debate on Europe this week was in terms of changing the view of

Europe from Westminster? I think is extraordinary damaging for the

Prime Minister that just under half his backbench MPs did not support

him. Instead of negotiating with his backbenchers, he should be

leading for Britain in Europe to make sure we get these changes that

will be in our interest. It is not in our interest to see the eurozone

so unstable with little growth. We need growth for Britain to prosper

as well. More than half of our trade in goods and services is with

Europe. To have a referendum at this point to pull ourselves out of

Europe would have been entirely the wrong course for Britain. You voted

with the Government this week. How difficult was it for you not to

support other Euro-sceptics? would not support that motion. It

was another referendum with three questions, just like you're one. It

is not the right way to proceed in Government. I don't have any

difficulty not voting for that. All will Labour have to say that this

puts David Cameron in a weak position, it doesn't. What it does

is let David Cameron and the Government's see the strength of

feeling out there in the country about wanting to keep Britain

rather separate from the debacle that is going on in Europe. About

renegotiating our future terms on which we are involved in the

European Union. David Cameron is in a very strong position on that. It

was difficult for some backbenchers in the Conservative Party on Monday

night. Some of them did want to dig their heels and and make their

voices heard. But that doesn't mean it is week for the Prime Minister.

The SNP abstain done has fought, why? It was not in our manifesto

either. -- abstained in this vote. The real danger here is that

Scotland and the UK need a successful Europe to export to, to

get growth and recovery. Although the debate here had no particular

bearing, the constant sniping and attacking of her friends and

partners in Europe is profoundly damaging. We should be working

together to get a recovery across the entire Continent which benefits

Europe and benefits us. It looks as though it is about to start raining,

so I will let you go. Europe is one of those issues that is very much

coming back to the fore here at Westminster.

Let's get some final thoughts from our political commentator, Alf

Young. How important is that deadline for getting that bail out

package together as these European leaders meet in Brussels today?

Critical. This is entirely about confidence. If the leaders of the

eurozone and the leaders of the wider European Community cannot

come to an agreement, and it still doesn't look as if the well, then

the consequences could be very damaging indeed. There are

fundamental differences about the extent to which Germany would be

prepared effectively to under right the entire problem across the 17

members of the eurozone. There is clearly no appetite within the

European Central Bank to do what the Bank of England has been doing

and printing money to try to stimulate demand. So, if they don't

get that kind of agreement, what you then begin to have to look at

is the prospect of bits of the eurozone falling apart. You

actually look at default of sovereign nations like Greece,

problems in Italy with political instability because the Government

has called an election early and there is talk of Silvio Berlusconi

moving out of politics altogether, although I will believe that when I

see yet! But there is huge political and economic instability

built in there. As Stewart Hosie and others were saying, the

eurozone is 40% of our export trade. Europe as a whole is nearly 50%.

All forecasting is looking at this quarter that we are currently M

which runs until December and saying there will not be much crawl

for round at all in this quarter. This is three years on from Lehman

Brothers, four years on from Northern Rock. We are beginning to

look at a period of years running into you is beyond years were there

is no real recovery our growth, rising inflation. We heard about a

long period of stagflation, which nobody wants. That is an issue of

whether we are in the eurozone, whether we are in the wider circles

outside the eurozone, and it is a big issue here in Scotland because

with the referendum coming up, the whole picture on that is about

remaining part of a monetary union that is the United Kingdom, so the

Bank of England will set our interest rates. But the ambition in

the longer term is to join the eurozone. It part of the remedy in

the eurozone is a fiscal tightening, I Union that is not just a monetary

union with a single currency, but a fiscal Union where there are some

political entity at the centre that is dictating levels of taxation, is

that really the prospect of an independent Scotland signing up, if

it could get into that? What does that do about the capacity of that

independence Scotland Today its own decisions in the interests of these

people. He's a huge stakes we're playing with. Difficulties at the

end of the day will be felt in people's living standards. David

Cameron is flying out to Brussels today. Ed Miliband said that he was

pleading, not leading. How is he performing in all of this Kerr ayes

will, he has found himself where John Major and Margaret thought --

where. Europe -- how is he performing in all of this? He has

found himself would John Major and Margaret Thatcher where regarding

Europe. He wants to trade with Europe, but that is about it. He

does not want to be part of their political integration. He has a

battle in his hands because MPs are preparing to vote against them --

prepared to vote against him. There is a real difference there and

Europe is very much back on the agenda at the very time that it is

following a par. Thank you for that and for your company this afternoon.

That is all from us just now. We are back at the same time next week.

2:30pm here on BBC Two. Gordon Brewer will be here with Newsnight