Browse content similar to 29/05/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Scotland. Coming up ash hope for people who suffer from chronic | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
pain. A pledge that special care will come from the Health Secretary. | :00:27. | :00:35. | |
Scotland follows suit despite regulation that same sex legislation | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
-- same-sex marriage legislation was on ice. George Osborne announces | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
that savings had been made but he still has to find billions more. | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
People who suffer from long-term pain will find out this afternoon if | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
they will get more help from the NHS. More than 700,000 Scottish | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
people suffer from chronic pain making it one of the country's | :00:57. | :01:05. | |
biggest health issues. We report on one young man's struggle. | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
36 euros Martin is preparing for an important trip. Despite a cocktail | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
of painkillers he is in pain every day due to form of bifida. He is | :01:17. | :01:26. | |
going 400 miles to a specialist clinic. -- spina bifida. It is | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
Martin's last hope. Doctors say there is nothing more they can do to | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :01:46. | ||
help, leaving him housebound and reliant on his family. I do not want | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
to think, I really don't. A month later and Martin is back in Glasgow. | :01:53. | :02:00. | |
I still have the same pain. But I know how to handle it now. This | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
afternoon, MSPs will debate whether Scotland should have a specialist | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
centre. It has -- Martin has a message for them and for the people | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
in Scotland suffering from long-term pain. If you have the opportunity | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
and Scotland does have a centre, go for it! It will not help your pain, | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
but it will give you a better life. At the end of the day, I can handle | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
that. We are joined by our health | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
correspondent and are political commentator Campbell Gunn, the | :02:37. | :02:45. | |
recently retired medical editor of The Sunday Post. -- political | :02:45. | :02:55. | |
:02:55. | :02:57. | ||
editor. What is chronic pain? might be in pain but chronic pain is | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
something that lasts for more than three months, beyond that timescale | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
for you might expect the body to heal itself. It is a huge problem in | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
Scotland, for one in six Scottish people suffer from long-term pain of | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
that kind. It is a massive burden on the whole system and is one of the | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
most common reasons why people visit the doctor. You have a lot of people | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
who suffer from chronic pain and end up on benefits because they are not | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
able to work. How is chronic pain currently dealt with? Some people | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
have to go elsewhere for treatment. Until recently, it was not even | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
recognised as a condition within itself. It has been recognised but | :03:43. | :03:50. | |
we still have left over its systems from before that. People often find | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
they are left to the specialisms that have left to the pain -- led to | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
the pain, such as cancer or arthritis. In fact they could go to | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
specialist units. In England and Wales people can go to a special | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
residential unit where it they get tips on how to manage pain. It will | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
not be a cure for the pain, but it does help in managing it. Scotland | :04:17. | :04:25. | |
does not have a system like this. People have two go to England and | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
that is what campaigners are hoping we will be promised this afternoon. | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
The Health Secretary will speak this afternoon. There is uncertainty as | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
to what he might say. The Health Secretary first backed the pain | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
campaign in the early days. He is now the man with the budget and | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
power to do something about it. The question is what will he do? | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
Campaigners are positive and confident that he will announce not | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
only a residential service in Scotland, but also better services | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
throughout the country instead of the postcode lottery be happy. When | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
I spoke to the health Department yesterday, they stepped back from | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
that and said he would announce a consultation which, although we need | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
to get right, it might be a disappointment to campaigners who | :05:17. | :05:26. | |
have been waiting 20 years or so for something to be done. Campbell Gunn, | :05:26. | :05:34. | |
it is a fascinating issue. There are people watching this programme who | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
are probably affected by it. It has taken a long time to get to this | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
stage. 700,000 people are estimated to suffer from chronic pain. It is | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
an issue which has dogged the Scottish parliament since its | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
inception. A cross-party group was set up in 2001. In 2002 there was a | :05:56. | :06:04. | |
debate in Parliament. After that the website crashed because it got so | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
much response. It is an issue which successive governments have failed | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
to tackle and we will see what happens later. The Health Secretary | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
has a series of options. It could be a consultation, it could be a mobile | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
centre, it could be a centre, we do not know. Thank you both for now. | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
We will have full coverage of the debate shortly. The Scottish | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
Government has confirmed it will introduce a bill to allow same-sex | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
couples to marry. The Health Secretary told MSPs the necessary | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
legislation would be in place within a month. There will be well -- there | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
will be legal protection for organisations which do not wish to | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
conduct such ceremonies. We will be introducing the marriage | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
and civil partnership Scotland Bill within the 2012, 2013 Parliamentary | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
session and the bill will be introduced before the summer recess. | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
This bill offers equality for all and for those diverse faiths who | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
believe in same-sex marriage and are currently prevented from holding | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
such ceremonies. I recognise just as these faiths wish to perform | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
same-sex marriage, many do not or are divided on the issue. What | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
progress has been made on ensuring necessary changes to the UK equality | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
act, to safeguard the right of each religion to govern itself | :07:36. | :07:46. | |
:07:46. | :07:46. | ||
accordingly on this matter? We made substantial progress on the matter | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
with the UK government and I hope to be in possession on publishing the | :07:52. | :07:59. | |
bill itself, to confirm the details of the amendments that will be put | :08:00. | :08:08. | |
to the UK Equality Act. The Cabinet Secretary will be aware of claims | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
that have been made around the cost and time scale of equalising civil | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
partnerships. A key aim of the campaign in Scotland has been to | :08:20. | :08:27. | |
secure same-sex mix to partnerships as well. No groups should be singled | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
out by legislation. What consideration has he given to this | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
issue and will he order our review or other work to be done to assess | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
the potential impact should Parliament express that its wish is | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
to open up civil partnerships to same-sex couples? As he will be | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
aware, the culture secretary has ordered a review held on to the | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
legislation for same-sex marriage south of the border. That will cover | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
devolved matters in respect of England, but also reserved matters. | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
I will consider how we should address this issue and I would hope | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
to make an announcement soon. Lettuce debate this further with Tom | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
French, a campaigner for same-sex marriage. He is the policy | :09:13. | :09:23. | |
:09:23. | :09:24. | ||
co-ordinator at the policy network good afternoon. -- let us. Had you | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
been thinking this was kicked into the long grass? Absolutely not and | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
we welcome the progress that has been announced. We look forward to | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
seeing it introduced into the parliament so that MSPs can look at | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
the evidence, scrutinise the bill and pass it with a significant | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
majority. We have not seen the results of the consultation. Have | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
you an idea when this would come out? We do not know but I suspect it | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
will come out and about the same time as the bill before the summer | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
recess. From our perspective we know that people who support same-sex | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
marriage responded to the consultation and would hope for a | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
progressive well on the back of that. We saw the debate at | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
Westminster when it was going through the House of Commons. Are | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
you surprised at the strength of opposition particularly amongst | :10:19. | :10:26. | |
conservatives? Could we see that here? I suspect there is more unity | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
in Scotland on this issue. We know that a high proportion of the | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
population supports same-sex marriage according to opinion polls. | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
We have seen a large majority of MSPs saying that they will vote for | :10:39. | :10:49. | |
it. It is disheartening to see some of the debates going on South of the | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
border. But of course everyone has a right to speak out and say how they | :10:53. | :11:01. | |
feel. Is there a generational view that younger people are more likely | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
to support it? I think that was a point that was majoring the debate | :11:04. | :11:11. | |
at Westminster? Absolutely. If you look at the opinion polls, across | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
the general population about two thirds of people support same-sex | :11:15. | :11:22. | |
marriage, but when you look at those under 55, that goes up to as much as | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
80%. President Barack Obama said his mind had been changed on the issue | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
by speaking to his daughters. Amongst young people, there is a lot | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
of support and in the decades to come, people will look back and | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
wonder why be needed a debate! People who are opposed to it are | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
concerned that churches and religious organisations will be | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
protected from having to conduct same-sex marriage is. You want to | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
see the safeguards in the bill as well? Absolutely. We want to see a | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
situation where religious freedom is protected and extended. Those groups | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
that want to conduct the same-sex marriage are told by the state that | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
they cannot. We want to see a bowl -- a bill that will allow them to | :12:14. | :12:24. | |
:12:24. | :12:25. | ||
conduct same-sex marriage if they want. What is your view about Sybil | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
partnerships for mixed sex couples? Lord Tebbit made some inflammatory | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
statements at Westminster. Do you think despair that happens? -- civil | :12:35. | :12:45. | |
:12:45. | :12:46. | ||
partnerships. Scotland's equal marriage campaigners always included | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
opening up civil partnerships to mixed sex couples as well. We | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
support that and we are pushing for it to be introduced in Scotland | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
because we believe in equality for all. That includes mixed sex couples | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
as well as same-sex couples. It would be bizarre to have a situation | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
where it same-sex couples ended up having more rights than mixed sex | :13:07. | :13:15. | |
couples. Thank you. I am joined by our political commentator Campbell | :13:15. | :13:23. | |
Gunn. Interesting to hear that are guest did not think it had been | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
kicked into the long grass? We are kicking the subject around wondering | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
if the Scottish Government did not want to happen before the | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
referendum? There is some opposition from the churches but there is broad | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
support across the Parliament. It is the same in Parliament. It is | :13:43. | :13:51. | |
happening across the world. Tonight is the first gay marriage in France. | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
It will come in in Westminster and it will be passed in Holyrood as | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
well. There are people who are opposed to it and Cardinal Keith | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
O'Brien was a leading light in this campaign. Has his demise change the | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
political perspective? I do not think so. I think the Catholic | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
church will still oppose it as well parts of the Church of Scotland. The | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
vast majority of people in the wider community are relaxed about it and | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
in favour of it. It is the same within the Scottish Parliament. | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
discussed this with Tom French about civil partnerships for mixed sex | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
couples. Lord Tebbit made those extraordinary request about marrying | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
his son or so on, to protect his inheritance! Would you think that | :14:42. | :14:52. | |
:14:52. | :14:53. | ||
might happen here? Tom French is in favour of civil partnerships for | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
mixed couples. It seems a logical way to go, equality across the | :14:57. | :15:04. | |
board. Now right at the beginning of the programme we talked about how | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
patients with chronic pain were going to receive improved specialist | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
care. Let's see what the Health Secretary Alex Neil has to say about | :15:10. | :15:19. | |
that live in the chamber. Alex Neil is on his feet at the moment, | :15:19. | :15:26. | |
representatives in the gallery from organisations fighting for action on | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
chronic pain. On residential treatment, he says 20 patients a | :15:31. | :15:39. | |
year go to Bath, the example mentioned in the report, he wants to | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
put an end to that and provide residential facilities in Scotland, | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
a single centre covering all of Scotland, a mobile service, a range | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
of centres across Scotland but he promised one of those will happen | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
and there should be no need in the future for patients to go to Bath. | :15:57. | :16:05. | |
Let's pick up on it. I encourage people to participate and tell us | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
what their preference would be because I want this to be as much as | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
possible driven either needs of the people who require the services as | :16:12. | :16:19. | |
far as we can. And we will very clearly take into account the views | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
of patients and other stakeholders before we make any final decisions. | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
But I am determined that we will make a decision on which model | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
around September time, I do not want this to drag on. We will have | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
consultation, we will listen to what people say but then we will make a | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
decision and deliver on the promise to have an alternative to Bath in | :16:44. | :16:54. | |
:16:54. | :16:54. | ||
Scotland. I thank him for giving way, especially in full flow! I | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
welcomed the remarks about other stakeholders. Because folk who have | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
chronic pain know they have chronic pain. A lot of the doctors treating | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
them do not know how to treat it. Can I suggest that as well as | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
patients learning to cope with pain, some medical staff do a course as | :17:14. | :17:24. | |
well. That is a very fair point she makes. One of our clear objectives | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
is to raise awareness in the medical profession about chronic pain and | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
what can be done to help people who suffer from chronic pain. The second | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
major point I want to make is that we have already reduced waiting | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
times from over 80 weeks to 60 weeks for psychological services and we | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
will continue to drive to significantly reduce waiting times | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
for those services which are so crucial to the sufferers of chronic | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
and. I do not believe it is right that people have to wait that length | :18:00. | :18:09. | |
of time for essential services which they need urgently. Thirdly, looking | :18:09. | :18:16. | |
at the petition submitted by Susan Archbold and those who supported the | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
petition, one of the key points made is in delivering services for | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
sufferers of chronic pain, we should not just think in terms of a medical | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
health model at the social model as well. Let me say that we are | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
committed to that principle. And the bill published today for the | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
integration of adult health and social care should help us deliver | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
an integrated health and social care service delivery for sufferers of | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
chronic pain. If there ever was an example of where the integration of | :18:49. | :18:56. | |
services is important is in relation to dealing with chronic pain. I want | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
to set out some of the work going on and approaches been taken but in | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
saying that, I do recognise there is still a wide variation in Scotland | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
in terms of access to certain services. And one of our key policy | :19:11. | :19:18. | |
objectives is to make sure there is no postcode delivery of services, we | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
want a consistent delivery of high quality services in primary and | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
acute sectors for the sufferers of chronic pain. Clearly, an approach | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
is required because most of the service will not be in the acute | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
sector, most service delivery inevitably will be in the primary | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
sector. We have long advocated the role of a managed clinical network | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
and the role it has in coordinating a multidisciplinary approach to | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
service provision. We also need to ensure those cynical networks give a | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
strong voice to patients in shaping service delivery -- clinical | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
networks. We will place an obligation on the territorial health | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
boards to provide a minimum level of services, good quality services but | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
in doing so we will require them to discuss the shape of the local | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
services with local populations and stakeholder groups representing the | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
sufferers of chronic pain. There are some areas making more progress and | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
have made more progress than others. NHS in Clyde, the clinical network | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
has been operating for five years and has demonstrated real | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
improvements including the development of a pain management | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
programme, setting standards for services, developing primary care | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
guidelines, and more recently setting up specialist nursing | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
clinics to provide care more locally for patients. So obviously, that is | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
a good example of the kind of ambition we have in delivering this | :21:00. | :21:08. | |
service. We actually recently have also, if we look at the figures | :21:08. | :21:16. | |
published yesterday, we have seen an increase in appropriate skills and | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
occupations in the health service in servicing sufferers of chronic pain | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
and others. For example, there's been a 5% increase in the number of | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
cynical and other psychologist working in health service compared | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
to last year. The mental health strategy for Scotland for the next | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
three years also makes a commitment to continue to deliver fast access | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
to psychological therapies and the programme to deliver this is | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
delivered locally but supported nationally including support for | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
service improvements in existing resources. The territorial boards | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
are receiving a real terms increase in budget this year and next said | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
the resources should be in place to allow them to deliver the quality of | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
services that we are demanding. We are supporting the development of | :22:14. | :22:22. | |
service improvement groups with �50,000 a year over two years, to | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
put together a local plan for improvement in the area. So far, the | :22:26. | :22:33. | |
following health boards have anticipated, Ayrshire, Dumfries & | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
Galloway, Lanarkshire, Lothian and Teeside who cover 72% of the | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
population. Our aim is to have 100% coverage of the population in this | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
programme to prepare and make sure the local service delivery plans are | :22:49. | :22:57. | |
in place from next year at the latest. The main priority of these | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
groups is to focus on and accelerate the implementation of the Scottish | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
service model, particularly looking to improve links with primary care | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
paediatric services in the voluntary sector and patient participation | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
will be an essential feature of their work. Some of the work is in | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
its early stages, in NHS Ayrshire they are working to improve chronic | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
pain services and it's been lined with musculoskeletal services | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
redesigned. That allows early identification, rapid triage and | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
assessment with timely referral into appropriate services including | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
chronic pain management, self-management support and the | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
working health service. In Fife they are working on proposals for they | :23:49. | :23:56. | |
groups, NHS Fife has integrated chronic pain management services | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
which have been established three years and fulfils a number of of the | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
approach. Clearly, we will be working with them and other groups | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
to take the programmes forward to ensure in Thai coverage in Scotland. | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
I have told boards to accelerate progress and to set an expectation | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
that improvement plans will be in place for every board by the end of | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
this month. In addition, as advanced that I will be calling for updates | :24:26. | :24:33. | |
on progress when I meet them in June and looking to them to identify and | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
seek solutions to any barriers in delivery. I have commissioned work | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
to consider how to efficiently include chronic pain in the local | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
delivery plans for each board from 2014 onwards and to ensure there is | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
a clear reporting mechanism to monitor progress through the annual | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
NHS board review process. They're on any other initiatives I could | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
mention but no doubt others will do so and my colleague, the Minister | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
for Public health, will cover a number of the ones I have not | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
reached. I just want to spell out on behalf of Michael Matheson and | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
myself are commitment to improving the chronic pain service throughout | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
Scotland and making sure we have the indigenous services in Scotland that | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
our patients need to deal with this very debilitating illness. | :25:28. | :25:38. | |
:25:38. | :25:47. | ||
I to welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate, not just | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
on behalf of my party but also as one of the co- conveners of the | :25:51. | :25:58. | |
group on chronic pain. I stuck by echoing the Cabinet | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
Secretary's comment welcoming those from across Scotland to parts of the | :26:02. | :26:09. | |
group that are in the gallery this afternoon. Some of you may spot a | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
former Parliamentary colleague who championed the cause of chronic pain | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
in the first Parliament that led to the formation of the cross-party | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
group. The campaign is not new, some of us think it's been rather a long | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
haul and many campaigners who have been seeking change for more than a | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
decade are impatient to see a difference on the ground. We've had | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
numerous reports over the years commissioned by different | :26:32. | :26:39. | |
governments, Professor McEwan, a group report and they've highlighted | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
the gaps in provision. The frustration has been the lack of | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
action. We do have a postcode lottery of care, where you receive a | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
service and whether you receive a service depends on where you live | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
and much of what the Cabinet Secretary has said is therefore | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
welcome. Let me start with a residential pain centre in Scotland, | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
Scottish Labour was the only party to pledge we would create a | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
residential service in Scotland and end the ordeal of any pain patients | :27:07. | :27:17. | |
being sent as far-away as Bath in Somerset. We often... I am | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
delivering on her manifesto commitment! I encourage him to read | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
the mess -- rest of the manifesto and if he deals on the rest of it I | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
might have more praise for him in future. He and I share this | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
objective because we often think about people travelling 800 miles, a | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
return journey to get a service, the distances can be longer. We | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
understand one sufferer was sent from Shetland, a marathon return | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
journey of over 1600 miles. Although the patients are small in number, | :27:51. | :27:59. | |
they are subjected to such gruelling travel, they are at the worst end of | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
suffering. Labour speaking live in the chamber. | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
Let's get some thoughts on that with Campbell Gunn once again. Alex Neil | :28:09. | :28:17. | |
announcing a consultation in September. It is a halfway house. He | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
has not announced the centre today but he has said it will be in | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
September so we have a consultation, short-term, something will be | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
announced in September. We still don't know what but it is progress. | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
There will be something, either a mobile centre or a specialist | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
centre. This is what the consultation is to decide, whether | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
there should be one centre or whether it should be a mobile centre | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
which can move around. He also asked health boards to set up specialist | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
pain units themselves because there is, as both of them say, it is a | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
postcode lottery. When Jackie Baillie was speaking and Alex Neil | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
said he was delivering her manifesto commitment, successive governments | :29:05. | :29:15. | |
:29:15. | :29:15. | ||
and executives before have been trying to deal with this issue. | :29:16. | :29:23. | |
Labour work in power there were many campaigners who fought vigorously to | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
have this work come to fruition. Thank you. | :29:25. | :29:33. | |
Staying with health, the Health Secretary has been busy, he has been | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
reassuring MSPs that there is robust systems in place to tackle waiting | :29:37. | :29:47. | |
:29:47. | :29:50. | ||
lists. It follows an audit Scotland report alleging that manipulation. | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
We had a number of checks and balances within the system to make | :29:54. | :30:03. | |
sure it was running smoothly. One board has decided that there will be | :30:03. | :30:11. | |
a monthly waiting list audit taken were data is sampled and | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
unavailability will be recorded. We must insure the system is robust and | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
that will be done monthly. That was one of the recommendations for every | :30:22. | :30:29. | |
health board in Scotland. What reassurances can the government give | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
that it will work in partnerships with every board to make sure it | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
that checks and balances are reinforced? Rather than give a | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
reinsurer -- the reassurance I will give you a commitment. We are doing | :30:46. | :30:53. | |
it at national level and it now takes place at a monthly meeting | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
involving my officials and others. We monitor progress and on | :30:59. | :31:08. | |
limitation in a detailed way. We will also examine any potential | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
issues that need to be addressed in how statistics are interpreted and | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
how rules are implemented. At both national level and board level, | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
there is now, on a monthly basis, detailed scrutiny of the figures to | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
make sure they are bust. We must provide relevant information and | :31:32. | :31:42. | |
information that can be believed by the boards and the general public. | :31:42. | :31:51. | |
The report is quite clear. What we saw was an increase in social | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
unavailability from its introduction in 2008 all the way through to a | :31:57. | :32:06. | |
peak in December 2010. There was a decline, slow at first and then | :32:06. | :32:16. | |
quicker subsequently, down to more or less its current level. When | :32:16. | :32:23. | |
something like that happens, does someone not look at it? Does someone | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
not say these are not proper, there are massive variances. What happens | :32:30. | :32:40. | |
:32:40. | :32:41. | ||
when something like that is brought to your attention? There are number | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
of issues with them that question. There has been a range of scrutiny | :32:46. | :32:54. | |
of these kind of issues over a long period. Audit Scotland has done a | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
number of examinations and raised issues about the variances of social | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
unavailability. There were issues about recording of social | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
unavailability. They did not raise concerns about the level of this. | :33:07. | :33:15. | |
There was nothing in the pattern, that increase over 2008 through | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
22010, that leapt off the page and said you have a problem. It all | :33:21. | :33:27. | |
happened within your health board at that time and it was of no real | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
concern to you? You felt confident there was nothing going wrong and | :33:33. | :33:43. | |
:33:43. | :33:45. | ||
did not discuss that? In the report, it is quite clear that we did not | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
raise any alarms are concerns about the increase in social | :33:50. | :33:57. | |
unavailability over that period. know what the committee said, but we | :33:57. | :34:04. | |
as a Health Committee were looking beyond that and saying can we trust | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
the boards and the processes when obviously there were codes not | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
entered properly, insufficient information put into the system and | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
fraudulent pride this in your health Department. There was no fraudulent | :34:18. | :34:25. | |
practice and my health Department. Manipulation, is that too strong? | :34:25. | :34:34. | |
That took lace in NHS Lothian, not in my health Department. There was | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
evidence of deliberate manipulation in NHS Lothian, but not in my | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
department. But is that not bad enough? We have to understand that | :34:44. | :34:54. | |
:34:54. | :34:55. | ||
Cabinet Secretary said to me in his opening remarks that we understand | :34:55. | :35:04. | |
what happened in NHS Lothian was unacceptable. Did we meet the new | :35:04. | :35:14. | |
:35:14. | :35:14. | ||
targets? What we are saying is we must get to 95% before we get to | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
98%, obviously? A number of boards are 98%. Across Scotland as a whole, | :35:21. | :35:28. | |
the figure is 92%, so that is not as high as I would like to see it, but | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
it is certainly moving in the right direction. We need to get to 98%, | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
that is our objective. Fatos Hamsaraj Westminster is still in | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
recess so no prime ministers questions and MPs are back in their | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
constituencies but David Porter is on College Green for us. It may be | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
quiet down there but there is lots going on in the corridors of power | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
in Whitehall! George Osborne is preparing for the spending review | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
next month. Behind the scenes and in the department they are looking at | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
the budget ahead of the spending review next month. The Chancellor | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
came out and said he had a couple of billion pounds of savings and is | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
looking for 11.5 young pounds worth of savings he still has some way to | :36:18. | :36:27. | |
go. To discuss how he will do that I am joined by two guests. This is | :36:27. | :36:34. | |
Iain Martin and Kate Devlin. George Osborne said he had done some of the | :36:34. | :36:42. | |
job but there is still a long way to go? A long way to go and he still | :36:42. | :36:49. | |
has a few of his ministers who are refusing to give him a figure on how | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
much they will cut in 2015, 2016. They have entered a period of | :36:54. | :37:02. | |
negotiations. He is threatening to call them in front of Start Chamber. | :37:02. | :37:12. | |
It is a stand-off at this stage. They have one month to go when he is | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
supposed to stand up in Parliament and lay this out. It is starting to | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
get very tight. This is a deadline he cannot miss as far as Scotland is | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
concerned. It will have a knock-on effect on the block grant, probably | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
in the region of a couple of hundred million pounds. It is hard to tell | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
at this stage how much it will be because we do not know how much the | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
final tally will be and we do not know the subject areas. How much the | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
Defence Secretary decides to cut could have significant impacts on | :37:48. | :37:56. | |
Scotland. We are talking about big figures, 11.5 billion, but in the | :37:56. | :38:04. | |
overall scale of things, it is not that huge, is it? That is right and | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
there is this huge row about �11.5 billion which sounds like a lot of | :38:09. | :38:16. | |
money. It is to us individually, but in the context of the government | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
spent, it is a drop in the ocean. The deficit is �120 billion this | :38:22. | :38:32. | |
:38:32. | :38:34. | ||
year. The national debt is about to hit 1.4 trillion. An argument about | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
the type of spending, is he spending the money he has got on the right | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
wings? There is an argument in Whitehall about if they should be | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
spending more on infrastructure. I think it is probably too late for | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
that. The government is making noises on spending more on | :38:53. | :39:01. | |
infrastructure. It is too late to reverse major decisions in time for | :39:01. | :39:08. | |
it to have any real impact. reduction in spending will be jumped | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
on by the opposition. As far as Scotland is concerned, you can | :39:13. | :39:22. | |
almost see the press release? You're shortchanging Scotland. Absolutely | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
and this will kick in in an election year. It is interesting to see what | :39:27. | :39:36. | |
the parties will do with it. When it comes to trying to tell the voters | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
in an election year exactly what is happening and how it has affected | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
them, that is where the political opposition will have to kick in. | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
Staying with the politics of it, how difficult will it be for the Labour | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
Party to differ from these figures are a Babel stick with whatever | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
spending measures the Chancellor comes up with? That is tricky for | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
Labour. The matter how difficult it gets for the coalition, David | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
Cameron and George Osborne can turn round and say what will you do | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
instead? It is clear from the opinion polls that the public does | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
not have faith in them or their economic agenda, sold Labour is | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
stuck. It is a charge that you hear a lot, but the Conservatives will | :40:24. | :40:31. | |
say that the Labour answer in a borrowing crisis is to borrow more. | :40:31. | :40:38. | |
Another story occupying our minds is the tensions in Afghanistan. It has | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
emerged that something like 90 Afghan people are being detained by | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
British forces without charge. is a difficult one for the Defence | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
Secretary. It emerges some of these people have been held without charge | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
for Ford team months. He says this is a situation they had foisted upon | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
them essentially, because they cannot hand them over to the Afghan | :41:05. | :41:15. | |
:41:15. | :41:17. | ||
authorities. #14 months. We are planning to pull out of Afghanistan | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
at the end of this month. Why these processes and systems have not set | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
up is quite a difficult question. His argument and the organ and from | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
the MoD is that the UK government has to pull out and ordered to allow | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
the Afghan authorities to step up to the plate. -- the argument from the | :41:39. | :41:49. | |
:41:49. | :41:50. | ||
MoD. The authorities are sensitive to any comparisons made to | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
Guant?namo Bay. You must consider the context in terms of the terror | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
threat at the moment. In terms of wider public opinion, government | :42:02. | :42:09. | |
ministers are not bothered. They argued that Labour made use of this | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
facility beforehand. Thank you both very much. That spending review is | :42:13. | :42:21. | |
on the 26th of June in about one month's time and there will be lots | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
of arguments in the run-up to that date. Thank you. Normal service | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
resumes at Westminster next week. Young people leaving care are being | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
failed by the system designed to help them stand on their own feet, | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
according to opposition MSPs. They are responding to a report from the | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
Equal Opportunities Committee. Leaving the care system when ready | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
should be a new start for any young person and offer an exciting | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
challenge into adult hood. But we have heard that this is rarely the | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
case. Automatic homelessness exists as a result of disjointed care and | :43:01. | :43:11. | |
housing services. We heard from one account that in some local | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
authorities, young people are still routinely discharged through the | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
homeless route rather than with a pathway plan that has been worked | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
out for them. The Princes trust echoed this claim by stating there | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
is an inconsistent picture of support for young e-book. Transition | :43:31. | :43:41. | |
:43:41. | :43:41. | ||
needs to be managed better. Children are leaving care far too early and | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
someone aged 16 or 17 is too young to leave the care system, especially | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
given that many looked after children are vulnerable young people | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
with different levels of maturity, still developing mentally possibly | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
as a result of suffering from a traumatic life experience, offering | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
-- often through no fault of their own. A former care leader explains | :44:05. | :44:12. | |
why he believes the age limit is too low. He stated that it is impossible | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
that people, even if they have lived with their mother and father, would | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
have the appropriate life skills at that age, the age limit for people | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
going into homelessness should not be 16, it should be 18. That would | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
give people more of a chance to learn the skills that would help | :44:29. | :44:38. | |
them to look after themselves. Scottish Parliament's, Miss | :44:38. | :44:48. | |
:44:48. | :44:48. | ||
commitment has been met stating that homeless people are entitled to some | :44:48. | :44:57. | |
form of redress. Our approach has contributed to a significant fall in | :44:57. | :45:04. | |
recorded homelessness in Scotland. But that still makes up a third of | :45:04. | :45:14. | |
all homeless people, although the figures have reduced. I know that is | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
not enough and I know there is a lot that still needs to be done to get | :45:18. | :45:26. | |
the numbers coming down. committee has made a number of | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
recommendations in terms of data, preventative work and successes in | :45:32. | :45:39. | |
removing obstacles. The report says people leaving care of honourable. I | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
am sorry to say we continue to fail these young people in care in terms | :45:44. | :45:51. | |
of future life chances, education, employability and the likelihood of | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
becoming a offender. We must develop a more holistic approach to | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
supporting young people in care and I believe that was one of the | :46:01. | :46:10. | |
conclusions which the group also drew from their work. To cover a few | :46:10. | :46:17. | |
issues which may be others will not cover, I start by saying it would be | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
too simplistic to suggest building more houses would be a solution to | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
the problem of homelessness among young people. Given the Scottish | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
government poor record on house construction, it is probably just as | :46:28. | :46:35. | |
well. The issue is an important one. The issue here is important. While | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
the current government boast they have done more to ensure more | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
council houses are built, the truth is there's been a significant cut in | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
the budget and if we look at the houses previously been constructive | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
by housing associations, the number of houses being built has dropped | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
significantly. Given issues like under occupancy charge it could also | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
be questioned if government policy is leading to the construction of | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
homes that are suitable for the demand we expect in years to come. | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
That was the Scottish Conservative. Let's get political reaction to | :47:16. | :47:26. | |
:47:26. | :47:26. | ||
today's news stories. Fiona McLeod, Drew Smith and Mary Scanlon. Thank | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
you for joining me. Fiona, we are looking at the issue of chronic | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
pain, Alex Neil making that announcement trying to get services | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
for people in Scotland and he has announced a consultation which | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
reports in September, is this clicking the issue into the long | :47:45. | :47:53. | |
grass again? No, September is only four months away. As someone who | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
suffers from pain, I can appreciate the long trek down to Bath. The fact | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
we will have an answer by September if something that all 800,000 | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
chronic pain sufferers in Scotland have waited a long time for and to | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
get it right and especially as the Cabinet Secretary said to consult | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
with patients to hear what their views are on the three options, | :48:16. | :48:24. | |
September is tomorrow in chronic pain terms. You say it's happening | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
quickly but these people in Scotland who suffer from chronic pain, it is | :48:27. | :48:34. | |
surprising that there is another delay. You can't magic and | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
in-service overnight. To say we will have it by September, I think that | :48:39. | :48:46. | |
is moving absolutely fast. Health Secretary moving at speed and | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
maybe it sounds more than what the Labour Liberal Democrat executive | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
managed to do when they were in power. I am in the chamber at this | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
afternoon so I can be there for the debate. For the people in the public | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
gallery and those who suffer, it has been a 12 year wait. There was a | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
range of progress under the previous executive and has been some progress | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
now, it goes back to the tail end of the previous executive where we have | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
not seen the urgency we need. I understand we want to consult with | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
patients and the best service but a lot of these patients who suffer no | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
what the answer is, we need a service in Scotland to save people | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
on long journeys to England to get treatment. Alex Neil said he was | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
delivering on Labour manifesto promise. Labour would be only party | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
to connect to an inpatient facility. We are delighted they have adopted | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
the policy. It was something you haven't done. They've been in office | :49:54. | :50:00. | |
for six years and we asked in 2012 whether Nicola Sturgeon would commit | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
to an inpatient facility for sufferers of chronic pain in | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
Scotland and she refused. It has been a long-running issue for | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
campaigners, we are pleased we can see progress this year but we need | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
to go on. We know what part of the solution is. We need an inpatient | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
facility in Scotland to stop the trek to Bath for the sufferers. | :50:24. | :50:33. | |
Scanlon, a former MSP colleague was watching this debate, I remember the | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
debates in 2001 on chronic pain, is it a failure of devolution that | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
nothing has been done in 14 years? have to be fair and say it is not | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
true nothing has been done. Not enough has been done but I also have | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
to say it is great credit to Dorothy, she is in the gallery but | :50:54. | :51:01. | |
when she left in 2003 she made me solemnly promise I would share the | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
group for the next eight years which I did. We did make some progress, | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
there were various action plans and strategies and reviews and also we | :51:09. | :51:18. | |
got a pain czar. There was never in patient and residential pain | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
services throughout Scotland. We had today from Alex Neil, the pain | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
services in Glasgow are wonderful, the pain services in Dundee are | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
first class. But if you go back a few years, ten years, the only pain | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
services in the Highlands where if you are terminally ill, that has | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
improved, there have been improvements over the years but it's | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
not enough. I welcome this consultation and we will be looking | :51:44. | :51:52. | |
to make sure there is no postcode lottery in future. Fiona, the | :51:52. | :52:00. | |
Scottish governmentpozz-macro health policy, is unravelling, Alex Neil | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
defending NHS Lothian for fiddling waiting lists and he was defending | :52:04. | :52:10. | |
the one in ten patients in accident-macro patients not treated | :52:10. | :52:18. | |
in the target time, is he in charge or Hassey Pienaar dealt a ticking | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
timebomb? -- Accident and Emergency. The Cabinet Secretary was clear, | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
anybody that does not manage to get treatment within the waiting time, | :52:28. | :52:35. | |
anyone who waits longer on a trolley, everyone as individual is a | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
tragedy but overall we are hitting targets of 90% for almost all | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
waiting times. Yes, there's more to be done but we have made a huge | :52:45. | :52:52. | |
difference. Drew Smith, a huge difference from the SNP, Labour | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
trying to pick holes in the SNP health policy that you may | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
remember, the previous executive, long waiting times, the SNP have | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
done a pretty good job when it comes to health. The difference in waiting | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
times is a twig what the government says the target is and what is | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
happening on the ground. The target is 98% being seen in 4-macro hours, | :53:17. | :53:24. | |
that is a long time to sit in Accident and Emergency. The Scottish | :53:24. | :53:32. | |
government change that and are still not meeting it. If you are one of | :53:32. | :53:38. | |
those people, this is not picking holes in the Scottish policy, this | :53:38. | :53:46. | |
is about my constituencies, hospitals experiencing huge weights, | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
they should not be happening. Scanlon, the Health Secretary doing | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
the best job he can, he is facing another budget cut for the | :53:56. | :54:02. | |
Chancellor when it comes to the spending review. You always know the | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
SNP are running into difficulties when they blame Westminster. They do | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
have a budget here and they decide on the priorities and Alex Neil does | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
not shirk from his responsibility. In terms of chronic pain, one major | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
issue apart from pain is the isolation and for many that leads to | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
depression. I was pleased to hear him talking about psychological | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
services, in some areas you can wait two or three years to see a | :54:28. | :54:35. | |
psychologist, the waiting times for psychological services will be 26 | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
weeks and that is not implemented until December 2014 so there's still | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
a way to go in terms of psychological psychiatric services | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
and support for people with depression, it is often caused by | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
chronic pain. Briefly, the same-sex marriage legislation, sooner rather | :54:57. | :55:04. | |
than later. Quick reaction. Well, it is fine, it is to be welcomed, I | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
look forward to the debate. Personally I am undecided, we have a | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
free vote in the party which is a range of views, the last time we | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
were up the road and we had a vote on civil partnerships are at stake. | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
Drew Smith, you must be pleased it coming in soon. I am really pleased. | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
It's been a long process but personally the Scottish government | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
have my support in bringing in equal marriage rights. That is where most | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
people in the country are. It's reasonable particularly in light of | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
the fact the vote in the House of Commons demonstrate the rest of the | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
UK is getting ahead of us. We are pleased to see this coming on. It | :55:49. | :55:55. | |
will be an advancement for equality. Fiona, I am sure you echo | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
that. Might there be civil partnerships for mixed sex couples? | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
My commitment is to equality and I am so pleased we have supported it | :56:07. | :56:14. | |
and we will see it in Scotland so we are a more equal society. OK, thank | :56:14. | :56:21. | |
you very much all three. Good to talk to. Finally, some thoughts from | :56:21. | :56:31. | |
:56:31. | :56:31. | ||
Campbell Gunn. A story today about Alex Salmond's vision for Scotland | :56:31. | :56:39. | |
falls short of any meaningful concept of independence. They were | :56:39. | :56:47. | |
cited as favourite economists. have always been mentioned but I | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
think you would perhaps class them as more on the fundamentalist side | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
of the independence argument and this is perhaps going back to the | :56:55. | :57:03. | |
old fundamentalist difference within the SNP. Scottish Socialist Party | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
would probably agree with them and people on the socialist side of the | :57:07. | :57:14. | |
independence debate are less enthusiastic about an independent | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
Scotland using the pound, keeping the Queen, being part of NATO and | :57:19. | :57:27. | |
the U. I suppose the SNP would say we are being pragmatic, we are | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
trying to entice people into the idea of independence so we have to | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
keep things to things people are familiar with. Of course, the | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
Salmond will try not to change too much after independence, he says, | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
economic powers without losing the Queen and the pound. Softly softly | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
into independence if Alex Salmond has his way. Not scaring the horses | :57:51. | :57:57. | |
approach. Of course, there's wide range of views I suppose even within | :57:57. | :58:04. | |
the SNP. There are some people who are not royalist, not keen on the | :58:04. | :58:14. | |
:58:14. | :58:16. | ||
EEA and not keen on NATO. But, for most of them in the Yes campaign, | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
these things will be subsumed in the greater aim of getting independence | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
for Scotland. And the wider arguments will continue. OK, | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
Campbell Gunn, good to have you on the programme. Thank you for your | :58:32. | :58:39. | |
contribution. So, that's all we have time for. We are back next week, | :58:39. | :58:45. |