25/02/2017 Scottish Labour Party Conference

Hello and welcome to our live coverage of the Scottish Labour

Party spring conference. The party leader, Kezia Dugdale, will make her

speech in 20 minutes, we will bring you that live. And I'll be here in

Perth at the concert hall to bring your analysis of that speech, all

the news and views and who knows, perhaps a bit of malicious gossip as

well. Delegates have given their backing calling for a motion for a

new federal UK. The vote gives the green light to the people

constitutional convention. People gathered in a fairly doleful mood.

Kezia Dugdale will attempt to rally the troops, but the loss in Copeland

crystallises their electoral woes. They are touting a new policy of

federalism in a bid to carve out a place for themselves in a crowded

political marketplace that is focused on the constitution. Her

political editor Brian Taylor as you saw his life in Perth. What is your

take on the atmosphere in the conference? It is intriguing. It is

half optimistic. Glass half full, perhaps. But it is only half. They

are in third place in politics in Scotland at Holyrood, and in terms

of the impact in England, those by-elections were not wonderful.

They held on in Stoke but got beaten substantially in Copeland by the

Conservatives, the first time in 35 years that a governing party is

taking the seat from the opposition. Kezia Dugdale stresses the

autonomous nature of politics in Scotland, the autonomous nature of

policy-making and structure, but of course they are part of the wider

labour movement. The problems south of the border wash over Hadrian's

Wall and affect her as well. Thank Brian, more from you later. With me

in the studio for the duration is Professor John Curtice at

Strathclyde University. We will get his analysis and thoughts for the

next couple of hours here on the programme. Thanks for joining us.

The Copeland loss could not have come at a worse time for the Labour

Party, could it? Indeed. I think when the whips decided to hold the

by-elections last Thursday the perhaps did not look at the calendar

and realise it would be right in front of the Scottish Labour

conference. Given what happened it was clearly not good news. But as

far as the Scottish Labour Party is concerned it is not need bad news in

England for it to appreciate that is in a dire position. If you look at

the last couple of opinion polls, between them they have put the party

at a record opinion poll Lowell, both for the Scottish parliament and

for Westminster, at around 14-15 %. Well below even the 22% or so that

the God in the Scottish election. Another poll of local Government

voting intentions, the local council elections at the beginning of May,

just 14%, less than half of what the party got in the last local

elections back in 2012. The truth is the Scottish Labour Party all of its

own has serious problems. It only has one MP at Westminster, or that

representation wiped out 18 months ago. Third place in Holyrood, now

potentially facing the loss of its remaining local Government bastions

in Scotland, including not least Glasgow. This is a party with plenty

of its own problems, it does not look to Jeremy Corbyn our country to

find more. And turmoil to the party in press and social media by

comments from the London Mayor Sadiq Khan, we will here from him later.

Sadiq Khan somewhat bleakly has suggested that he wants a world in

which there is not an attempt to divide people by nationalism. And of

course therefore in a sense implies that maybe the Nationalists of the

SNP share some characteristics with the nationalism of Ukip or the

National front. The truth is when anybody suggests there is some kind

of analogy between the nationalism of the SNP and that of Ukip, the SNP

get very upset. The truth is of course the SNP is a party that wants

to see more immigration into Scotland, is very different view

from Ukip, it wants Scotland to stay inside the Open union, completely

opposite to Ukip, but certainly Sadiq Khan has suggested that you do

what a separate Scotland from England and to that extent you are

somewhat similar, but don't be surprised, the SNP will push back on

that suggestion very hard indeed. Yesterday delegates unanimously

backed the new plans for a federal Britain, a federal United Kingdom.

What are Labour trying to do here, and what kind of federalism are

looking at? The Lib Dems have welcomed this. Is this a Lib Dem

type federalism? The first half of that question is easier than the

second half. What is trying to do is to say, we are against independence,

but then trying to lay out its own distinctive vision of Scotland

inside the union, a vision that will distinguish it from the Conservative

Party. I think what Kezia Dugdale means by federalism as far as

Scotland is concerned is that if we have a federal structure the place

of the Scottish Parliament is guaranteed, in a federal system the

centre can never get rid of the constituent parts. That is part one,

and part two is trying to lay out the impression that indeed this

would be an even work powerful Scottish Parliament that even the

parliament we are going to get eventually in wake of the final

implementation of the Scotland Act that came out of the Smith

Commission. That is what she's trying to do she must be aware that

of the Unionist parties hers is the party that has the largest

proportion of people who say, actually, we still might vote for

independence, so she has to keep our Coalition together. What she means

by federalism, we know in principle what it means, it means you have a

system where Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland and the regions of

England all have very similar parliaments and assemblies and all

have similar powers. The obvious difficulty is that while of course

Wales is getting more devolution, Northern Ireland is having trouble,

but it may get its devolution back again soon, but England still

doesn't evince much interest. I pointed the difficulties the current

Government are having and try to introduce city regions. There are

going to be six new city regional Mayor 's enacted, but in other

places, in Sheffield and Southampton in Hampshire, in Newcastle, these

attempts to come up with city regions have fallen into the sand

because of local disagreements. Getting England on board is

difficult, and without England there is no prospect of a federal

structure at all. John, thanks, more from you later. As the white Brian

in Perth, he has been joined by a couple of politicians. A couple of

politicians indeed, to very senior members of live's front bench team,

welcomed both. Let's talk about Kezia Dugdale's speech coming up

today. Federalism. We had John Curtice. What do you think it means?

It is not a quality across Scotland and the English regions, what is the

shape, what could it be? Within the UK and gives us still the

opportunity to share resources, but what it does is bring our closer to

the people it affects. We know in Scotland that you can make different

choices to the rest of the UK, and that has worked really well for us.

That will benefit the rest of the UK and will get rid of some of those

arguments about who does what when, and people feel disenfranchised from

politics, I think having a parliament in Scotland has changed

that to a degree. We need to do an awful lot more, but I see that

working. People having the same tender powers that we enjoy but also

having the ability to share resources across the UK. Speaker

after Speaker in the federalism debate said, not really our agenda

we don't want to do this, but Speaker after Speaker then said, we

have to, because the argument are still there. That sort of position

may be arisen at moment? There is a recognition of politics has changed

over recent years, and this is a response to that, and we have to be

relevant to people in local communities. And the way we see to

do that with the federalism debate as to bring forward a solution that

brings the additional powers that will be created as a result of

Brexit coming to Scotland, bringing those powers closer to local

communities, giving local people a say and giving them a relevance. I

get that from the Scottish Parliament, repatriating the powers

comes from Europe, but I don't get what the ship is for England. Is it

regional parliaments, and in which Parliament? What is at? That is why

we are calling for a constitutional settlement so there is a discussion

about these things. We don't want to impose a solution on local

communities. Let's speak across the UK and see what people are looking

for in terms of an ideal solution within each region. But ultimately

it is about transferring power and giving local people a greater say.

Rhonda Grant, we will hear sections of the speeches from earlier to the

audience, but one, was that the party needs to change, that was a

big message. I think you have to listen to what people are saying,

and it goes back to the federalism debate because different parts of

the country who want Brexit for very differently. We voted to stay in the

EU as that London, as did other parts of the country, and if that

does not tell you that there are different needs and wishes

throughout the country that have to be in some way, B is there is a

country we make a decision and have to go without, but we also have to

meet the different aspirations from different parts of the country, and

those are very geographical, so we have to make sure that we do that. I

think what he is saying is that we need to find a way... Politics is a

servant of the people. We have to find a way of delivering politics

that resonates with people and that they feel they are being hurt, which

at the moment does not seem to be happening. The message from James

Kelly, he was saying, leave the laser alone, but he was also saying

the party is way behind the Tories in the polls, and you're in Holyrood

behind the Tories and the SNP. We were pleased to defeat Ukip in

Stoke. We did not take enough. When in Copeland and to win elections and

when are you had to win votes and you need to have credibility with

the people. The way you think they need to do that which Tom Watson was

talking about is the message that resonates with people. At this

conference we are talking about a federal solution, but you also heal

Neil Barry this morning talking about the failings of the Transport

system. Bringing railways back into public ownership. Yes, Jackie

Baillie talking about the importance of a stronger economy in Scotland.

We saw last week the devastating impact of the budget, ?170 million

of cuts to local councils. It is getting those messages across and

being more relevant. People are voting on these policies, I accept

that, but they are also voting on the character of the leader. Is it

working for Jeremy Corbyn? I think is Tom Watson said, it is not time

for another leadership election, it is not time for Labour to turn in on

itself, it is time for Labour to turn out and get its message across,

and it is incumbent on anyone whether it is Jeremy Corbyn, Kezia

Dugdale or MSPs at this conference to speak out and speak to people,

and be seen to be standing up for local communities. That is the way

back to power. Thanks both for joining me and I will hand you back

to Andrew. Brian, thank you. Live's deputy leader Tom Watson told

delegates he was hugely disappointed after the Copeland by-election loss.

He said it was not time for a leadership election, but warned that

Labour in England cannot afford a wipe-out like the one in Scotland.

Mr Watson said things have to change to reconnect with voters, and he

made the argument for a federal UK. I want to be clear about this week's

by-elections. I will not sit in court the results, you deserve

better than that. I'm glad we won in Stoke. Gareth will be a great MP,

and sending Paul Nuttall back home with his tail between his legs is

exactly what he deserved. You know, I never thought I'd feel sorry for

poor muscle, -- I never thought I would feel sorry for Paul Nuttall,

and I was right. But I was hugely disappointed that Gillian would be

joining him in Parliament as the MP for Copeland. That means that all of

us with leadership roles in the Labour Party need to have a long,

hard look at ourselves and what is not working. Here in Scotland you

have seen what happens when Labour's long-term supporters stop voting

Labour. We cannot afford to have that happen in England as well. I

said it a lot recently, this is not the time for a leadership election.

That issue was settled last year. But we have to do better. We cannot

sustain this level of distance from our electorate, from our natural

supporters. Things do have to change. Yesterday Scottish Labour

delegates gave their backing to a motion calling for a new federal UK.

The vote gives a green light to peopleconstitutional convention. The

issues were raised against the proposals, Jeremy Corbyn would of

course have to be Prime Minister for it to happen. I think in politics

you need to understand how you get your victories but also how you get

your defeats. For me I think it means we need to be talking to a

wider group of voters. We need to convince people who are currently

voting Conservative to come back to Labour. That means we need to talk

about wealth creation, about prosperity about support for small

businesses, the people that are going to make sure services are

funded. Just not entirely about socialist distribution but about

wealth creation as well? Yes, I think we have to broaden our reach,

and so do most of the Shadow Cabinet. I think the lesson of

Copeland for us is to reflect on what people were telling us on the

doorstep, try to understand how that reflects nationally, and try to win

back some of that support we have lost in the last couple of years.

But isn't leadership a substantial part of that problem that he faced

in Copeland and elsewhere? Can it be the case that Jeremy Corbyn must

share responsibility at the very least for that defeat?

I am not running away from that. I and the deputy leader and I take my

responsibility seriously. Jeremy Corbyn knows the position of the

polls. Once we have had time to sleep on this by-election we will

try to remedy the situation by changing tack? Changing tactics,

policy, but not by changing leader? Our members are solvent in the

Labour Party, we have had to damaging leadership elections. Our

number one duty is to deal with the specs at issue. It is our job to

make sure to make sure Theresa May represents the interests of Scottish

workers, voters, businesses. That should be our number one task. Do

you agree with David Miliband that Labour is as far away from power as

it has been for 50 years? I do not. That is because I grew up in the

Labour Party in the 1980s. We had revolution socialists that will try

to take control of the Labour Party. But I understand the point he is

making, we are in a difficult time and we need to change tack to build

a winning Coalition for the next general election. Would you welcome

David Miliband back into the House of Commons? The traditions that are

reflected in the Labour Party, we are always at our best when all

those traditions can be heard, his contribution is always respected and

welcome, he is a former successful Foreign Secretary. You made

reference to the people's Constitutional Convention, how do

you see that working in practice? What form of federalism could be. #

I do not want to predict what that model could be, the key point I was

trying to make to this conference, I do not think we will begin to make

progress electorally in Scotland unless we convince people that we

understand that too much power resides in Westminster. That is as

big a challenge from Labour in the English regions as it is for people

in Scotland and I hope that the Constitutional Convention will look

at how we can take that power away from unelected bureaucrats in

Brussels and not giving it to unelected bureaucrats and vital but

making sure that the English regions and Scotland gets its fair share.

Labour's deputy leader speaking to Brian Taylor. Kezia Dugdale will be

addressing the conference delegates shortly. Professor John Curtice is

still with me, let us pick up on what Tom Watson was saying, comments

from David Miliband saying Labour is as far away from power as they have

been in the past 50 years. Jeremy Corbyn appears to be a problem for

them. Jeremy Corbyn is not doing any good for the party. You can find

evidence to substantiate Steve Ed Miliband's statement. The party

across the UK is running at 26%, 27% in the opinion polls, the last time

Labour in opposition was that will was in 1982 during the Falklands

War, and in 1983 during the general election, when the party got 28% of

the vote. The truth is you can see the analogy between Labour's current

position and its position back in the 1980s. Difficulty here is that

Labour's problem is not simply Jeremy Corbyn. The first thing to

ask yourself is, why was Jeremy Corbyn able to win the leadership of

the Labour Party in the first place? Not least because none of his

rivals, Andy Burnham, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, were able to convince

Labour members that they actually knew how to lead the party in such a

way that it would be electorally successful. Indeed, it is not

obvious that there is anybody as yet within the Parliamentary Labour

Party who has demonstrated clearly that they have the ability to speak

out to the electorate and come up with a vision as to what the Labour

Party would be about, and thereby leading to put the Government under

pressure. Labour's problem may be, even if it were to get rid of Jeremy

Corbyn, and at the moment is not the membership want to do so, with whom

we do replace? Is there anybody who could do the job better? The truth

is, we do not know the answer to that question. Beyond the other

clear problem Labour faces, is that basically it has to be able to see,

how now would we as a centre left, social Democratic Party, run the

economy in such a way that the so-called left behind, people in our

society who do not do so well, who are normally regarded as Labour's

core territory, that those people would feel that the tiger of global

capitalism is being teamed in such a way that they are getting some of

the proceeds of growth, as David Cameron used to call it. Labour have

not come up, since 2010, with a revised vision of what it is about,

that makes people begin to think that a Labour Government would do

something about the inequality in our society, which is certainly not

got any smaller in the last decade. UK problems they are trying to

address, specifically, what other problems that Kezia Dugdale might

try to address in her speech very shortly? She is in a crowded

political marketplace, there is a dividing line around the

constitution. It was the Labour Party above all that suffered from

the Independence Referendum, one third of those who voted Labour in

201040 GS, many of them have since gone on to vote for the SNP, that

was the immediate source of Labour's difficulties. In the last couple of

years the Scottish Labour Party has often given the impression of

saying, can we talk about schools or hospitals, criminal justice? In

other words, can we talk about anything else other than the

constitutional question, because it is an issue that they do not feel

any natural empathy for. The Liberal Democrats love talking about that,

the SNP love to talk about that, the Conservatives are more than happy to

defend the union, the Labour Party, they are not comfortable with this

debate. Let us go to the Perth concert Hall mode where Kezia

Dugdale is being treated by the London mayor Sadiq Khan. We will

hear from him later in the programme. No case you're that deal

takes the applause from the delegates, and here is her Spring

Conference speech. Conference flames, thank you for

that inflatable welcome. It is great to be back in Perth. -- conference

friends. And thank you for that introduction from Sadiq Khan. He

reminds us why we should be restless every single day that we are not in

power. He shows us what we can achieve when the power of our Labour

values are matched with the power of Government.

He inspires us to work harder and to aim higher, not just because of the

work he does, but because of what he represents. Conference, to those who

see that politics in the United Kingdom cannot change, to those who

see that in the days of Trump, hope and unity cannot win, I see, look to

London. Not a dark Star, as Alex Salmond

once called it, but a city, whose people elected the boy who grew up

on a council estate and ended up in Parliament. In city which replaced

Boris Johnson with the son of a bus driver, and a city which rejected a

Tory smear campaign of racism, intolerance, bigotry and slammer

phobia and elected YouTube's first Muslim mayor.

-- bigotry and Islamophobia and elected the first Muslim mayor in

Europe. He is the pride of London, he is the pride of Labour, thank

you, Sadiq Khan. Just weeks from now people across Scotland will go to

the polls for the sixth time in five years. Every time there has been an

election referendum we have asked you to go into your communities and

make Labour's case. It has not always been easy. But you have done

it. And you have done it because you know that every door knocked, every

telephone call made, every conversation had, makes a

difference. This year I am asking you to do the same again. Because we

have so much to fight for at these elections in May. In the places

where we are in power we have built schools, community centres and

libraries. We have invested in the education of our children, get their

old people safe and warm, and got our young people into work. While

the SNP Government has handed on Tory cuts over the last five years,

?1.5 billion of cuts, Labour has shown that they are the last barrier

between the people and austerity. -- that we are the last barrier. In

Glasgow the Commonwealth Games delivered by Labour brought

thousands of jobs to the city and helped to regenerate the East End.

In Aberdeen, where budgets had been stretched, Labour councillors have

looked for new sources of funding, and issued bonds to raise an extra

?370 million. In Renfrewshire, Labour lead of the SNP Government

followed by finding a way to abolish the bedroom tax. And in Starling, it

was a Labour council but was the first to introduce 600 hours per

year free childcare and early learning for two, three, and

four-year-olds. When the SNP find times are tough they blame the UK

Government. When Labour sees tough times we roll up our sleeves and get

on with protecting people. In 2012 the SNP said Glasgow was a

stepping stone to independence. How wrong they were. And when the say

no, it is time for change, I say, communities have changed under

Labour, they have been transformed. It is the SNP which has been in

power for a decade in Scotland, it is the SNP which has failed to

alleviate Tory austerity, which has failed the least well off in

society, which has had our health and education systems in crisis.

Conference, that is the change we need, that is the change we are

fighting for. In May, let us get out and fight for Labour to elect our

communities, not SNP councillors who only have one thing on their mind.

Conference, our council campaign will be rooted in our communities.

That is why I am proud that our local Government campaign manager

and our Deputy Alex Rowley has been out there leading from the front. He

has been racking up the miles across the country. Glasgow, Kilmarnock,

Rosyth, Dundee, Edinburgh, Kinross, Aberdeen, Perth, Paisley, Balko --

Falkirk, Inverness. His diary looks like a road map of Scotland. Between

now and the 4th of May he will be at the forefront of our local

Government campaign, thank you for all the work that you are doing.

Conference, a little under 18 months ago you elected me as your leader

with a mandate to change the way that we run this party and how we

serve working people across Scotland. Before I took on this job,

and after, I was honest with you about the challenge that we faced.

The referendum changed Scottish politics for good. And I said that

if we were to succeed again in the future of Scottish Labour had to

change also. The last time I stood on this stage, and my first

conference speech as leader, I said that decisions about what happens to

the Scottish Labour Party would be made here in Scotland. And one and a

half years after I said that would happen we have made that happen.

Once and for all no one can question who makes our policy, who selects

candidates, and who is in charge of this party. And for the first time

we have secured permanent representation on Labour's in EC. I

also promised you that under my leadership this would be an open and

Democratic Party, one that puts our members and our most historic

parties, the trade unions, at the centre of our movement, and that is

exactly what we have done. Last year we had a manifesto I was

proud of, based on something I believe in, and it told the truth,

that if you want high quality public services, we have to talk about who

pays for them. It was a tough message, but it was the right,

honest and decent thing to do. And against attacks from both the SNP

and the Tories, we have state true to our values. I take no joy in the

fact that our prediction that millions would be cut from the

budget for front line services has been proven right. So we will

continue to make the argument that the richest should pay their fair

share for the services that we all rely on. And friends, just

yesterday, we passed another milestone in the history of our

party. Labour, the party of devolution, the party that gave life

to a Scottish parliament that many said was an impossible dream,

started writing the next chapter of that story. With your backing we

have set out a plan to deliver a stronger Scottish parliament and a

vision for a reformed United Kingdom. We are a party that

believes in being part of something bigger, that understands that

decisions should be taken as close to the people as possible. That is

why we have backed federalism. Friends, it is not Ruth Davidson and

the Tories' status quo or the SNP's damaging plans for independence, it

is a labour vision for Scotland's future.

Conference, this is how I have delivered on the mandate you gave

me. And only by working together over the months and years ahead can

we complete that task of rebuilding our party. Together we have put in

place a solid foundation for the future. Our party, no more open and

democratic. Our voice, strongest as part of the UK movement. Our

decisions, made here in Scotland with a plan for a Scottish

parliament -- stronger Scottish parliament and reformed UK, the

defence public services, and Labour's lasting legacy, our NHS.

Conference, our world is changing. At a time when politics can seem

more and more narrowly focused on taking us out of that you are

breaking up the UK, the world around us is transforming at a pace that

has never been seen before. The world is more open than it has ever

been. And technology gives us boundless opportunities but also

demands we think again about the way that we work on the way that we

live. This time ten years ago, Facebook had only been open to

everyone for five months. No one had heard of an iPhone. Today, more

people use Facebook and there were alive 100 years ago. And every

minute 300 hours of video are uploaded to you cheap. But it is not

just technology that has changed the way that we live. In the past, war,

famine and disease killed millions upon millions of people every single

year. But today more people die as a result of violent crime than they do

as a result of war. More and better knowledge means that killer diseases

are declining. Humanity has succeeded in taming if not

eradicating disasters that held us back throughout much of our history.

I don't think our problems are solved. Far from it. But when you

take a moment to stand back and look at what we have got to, you realise

that if you give someone the choice of being born at any point in human

history so far, they would choose today. We live longer, are more

peaceful and more prosperous than ever before. But none of this has

happened by chance. It happened out of choice and because of decisions

that have been made over the past 50 years. Technology has improved

because of the ingenuity and the skill of scientists and engineers,

often funded by governments who back them with aliens of pounds. We have

made this progress because people and politicians make choices that

got us this far. Choices Labour made in power. Introducing a minimum

wage, raising family incomes, creating civil partnerships,

investing in our NHS, and letting millions out of poverty.

And if we make the right choices, there is nothing to say we can't

make the same progress again. But in too many places in Scotland, and

indeed around the world, that is just not how it feels. Instead

people look to the future and feel more vulnerable. Fragile. Uneasy

about what is coming around the corner. Despite the opportunities on

offer, our young people feel they have less chance to succeed and the

parents did. People feel abandoned because the world around them is

changing too fast and too many people are being left behind. Ten

years ago we failed to anticipate a financial crash that began to change

politics in this country. Too many people at the time could not see

that business as usual just was not going to work anymore. After the

financial crash, Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling focused on keeping

people's life savings secure, as many people as possible in work and

off the dole, that was the right thing to do. In 2010, however,

politicians were taught a hard lesson. They stepped in to rescue

the banks, but no one came in to rescue our politics. The way we did

politics had to change. We had to work harder and taking people with

us, hearing what they have to say, and making sure they knew that we

were listening. This should have been our focus. Instead we were

diverted by arguments about independence and Brexit, two sides

of the same coin. And the truth is, they are ideas that risked turning

the clock back on the progress that we have made. Progress built on

labour and trade union values, solidarity, cooperation, mutual

understanding and respect. They are the values that are under attack

from independents and from Brexit, and I won't stand for it.

Conference, the 2014 referendum shook me to the core. I know that

for a lot of people it was exhilarating. But for many others it

was both physically and emotionally exhausting. It divided our country.

It said family members and friends against each other. It created

arguments and rose that most people are pleased to know behind them. Our

country now feels more divided and more fractured than ever before.

Instead of focusing on what we can do to build our future, we are too

busy labelling each other because of decisions we took in the past. Yes,

no, leave, remain. Focusing on what makes us different rather than what

we can do to bring us together. Conference, I am still so proud that

I fought for our values in that referendum, and that so many of you

here today made that argument alongside me. We put the national

interest and the interests of working people at head of our own

party interest. Let me tell you, conference, we made the right

decision. When we warned about threats to our

public services, we were told we were wrong. No Scotland's deficit is

even bigger than it was then. But some people still say that we should

back independence. Not because it is right but because they think it is

popular. Let me say this to them. The Labour Party I lead will never

betray its values so easily. It will never turn its back on the idea that

together we are stronger. But we can achieve far more working in a

partnership and we can alone. Conference, Labour's historic values

will endure even under this greatest threat. We will never sacrifice the

drops of workers at Rosyth and Govan and Faslane. The jobs of thousands

of people in Edinburgh and Glasgow in science and technology and

financial services, whose companies are already feeling the effects of

Brexit. Or the oil workers in Aberdeen who need more support, not

greater uncertainty. It will never caught off

opportunities for our young people and tell them that their life

chances should be curtailed by a border, or that our older people in

the eye and say that we are willing to put their pensions at risk, or

ask working families to face higher bills. And it will never turn its

back on the millions of people who feel not just left behind but

abandoned by the people in charge. It will always put the people of

this country first. Conference, the Labour Party I lead will never

support independence. Independence. It is not an escape

from Tory rule. It is not an escape from Brexit. It is not an

alternative. It is the same old song the SNP have been singing for

decades. Conference, it is time Nicola Sturgeon changed her chin. --

it is time she changed her tune. I want the First Minister of Scotland

to focus on the Scottish NHS, on our economy, and on our schools. I don't

want a First Minister whose priority is the constitution. It may serve up

a convenient headline to divert attention but it does not put food

on the table at each our kids how to read and write. I don't want any

more uncertainty and upheaval. We need stability and we need focus.

And that is what I will strive for each and every single day.

Friends, yesterday you supported my plans for change for an even

stronger Scottish parliament inside a federal United Kingdom. This is an

historic milestone for our party which will protect the rights and

benefits we get from being part of the UK. And with Brexit, more power

is returning to the UK, and I want that to mean more powers for

Scotland. It presents us with a significant opportunity. In the

first instance, in areas that are already devolved like fishing and

agriculture, power should return directly to the Scottish Parliament.

But in a whole host of other areas where power currently sits with

European Union, we should be asking, what should happen in the future?

And I will be guided by where I think the rights and protections for

working people will be best guaranteed. With the social chapter

ceasing to apply in the UK, this is the right time to look at

protections and work and the minimum wage, and ask whether power over

those should sit in Holyrood. And I believe it should.

The same is true over power over immigration. As we leave the single

market, we will need to design and new immigration system for the UK.

It needs to be better served Scotland's needs and consider the

views of business and of people across the country. And we need to

make sure we have a fair system. These decisions about the future of

our country cannot just be taken by politicians. That is why we need a

people's Constitutional Convention, made up of men and women from every

corner of the United Kingdom to decide how this country should be

run in the 21st century. With the Tory Government refusing to take

this idea forward, it is now the job of the opposition to make it happen.

Jeremy Corbyn has already given his support. Conference, let's thank him

for everything he is doing to make this happen.

And I can share with the conference today that in the coming months,

together with Gordon Brown, I will join Labour representatives from

Wales and the regions of England to begin to set out how we will take

this agenda forward together. I do not want another referendum on

breaking up the UK. Our country still bear is the scars of the last

one and the one wants to go through that again any time soon. That is

right Labour will never support one in the Scottish Parliament. But the

unfortunate truth is this. With the SNP supported by the Green Party,

they have a majority in the Scottish Parliament, therefore if this

country faces another referendum at any point in the future, I will work

tirelessly to make sure that our side of the argument as successful

again. To ensure that we sure that our

values of solidarity and cooperation can win out, and to protect the jobs

and opportunities of everyone who lives and works in Scotland. That is

why today I am announcing the launch of together stronger, and asking

everyone who supports a United Kingdom to sign up, if you share our

values, and if you believe the First Minister shelve plans for a second

Independence Referendum, then join with us. Instead of exploiting

division we want people across Scotland to share our vision of an

open, tolerant and outward looking Scotland. Friends, this is our

movement for a new Scotland, a fair, better, more equal Scotland, a

Scotland that is strong and secure in its own identity, and where we

think about what unites us rather than what divides us once again. Our

argument against independence is built on our Labour values and our

movement for a new Scotland has at its heart creating jobs and building

our economy. Because without a strong economy we cannot put our

values into practice. Government has a responsibility to the least well

off but it also has to make sure that working families are protected

and that we just keep up with places. Under the SNP Scottish

growth is no less than one third of the UK's. Two of the largest sectors

in our economy, oil industry and financial industry, are declining.

The problem for the SNP is that its drive for independence means it

cannot admit the weaknesses in our economy. And that means it cannot

take advantage of the opportunities that may be around the corner.

Because you cannot make the case for oil and gas decommissioning work to

come to Scotland if your case for independence relies on an economy

fuelled by never ending oil. You cannot admit how many jobs have

already been lost in the financial sector if you still need to convince

people that they will be there along into the future, and you cannot use

Brexit to explain away all the problems, when you are calling for

Scotland to withdraw from its biggest single market.

For Labour, our priorities are equipping Scotland for a future of

high skilled jobs, and doing what we have always done, protecting the

incomes of working families across the country. In the 1980s and early

1990s, at the outset of the first wave of automation, too many

industrial jobs were replaced with low pay and low skilled jobs in the

service sector, no other skilled jobs, long thought invincible to

machines, are under threat. Some experts say that we will lose 20% of

Scotland's jobs in the financial sector to machines in the next two

years. No matter how you look at it, it is clear that our economy needs

to radically change if it is going to succeed. We have to prepare

people for the future with the best education, to give them the ability

to compete for a high skilled jobs. This week we saw the SNP Government

pushed through another budget film of measures that will cut right to

the heart of our public services. It will seek millions lost from

front-line local Government services, and will once again make

the job of our school teachers even more difficult. I have always called

spending on education and investment because that is exactly what it is.

It is the payment we make as a society so that the next generation

gets even better opportunities our own. But no matter how the SNP tries

to dress it up, the budget the Government passed on Thursday,

cannot make up for nearly one decade of neglect. The gap between the

richest and the least well off children has persisted, while

teachers have been lost, and literacy and numeracy rates have

declined. Giving every child the best start in life means giving them

a better chance to succeed, to get into university, a trade or

training, and ultimately to get a job that will set them up for life.

Our country has the potential to take advantage of opportunities in

some great new innovative industries. But they need far more

support. Edinburgh is no one of the country's centres for computer

coding, designing the apps and programmes that we use on our

forums, tablets and computers, but the SNP Government still does not

have a published strategy for how we can grow our technology sector so

that we can provide more jobs in the future. This is not the consequence

of a lack of power, it is a lack of political will. As the Scottish

Parliament takes on more tax powers, growing our economy through

investing in the skills of ingenuity of our people and supporting new

businesses, this is even more important. If we do not at home in a

direct impact for our schools, hospitals and other public services.

That is why I can announce today that in the coming months that we

will launch Scottish Labour's industrial strategy and set out our

thinking for the new economy. This will include specific work, as

many including Dundee CLP have called for on the rise and

automation, actions we can take to protect Scottish jobs and ideas on

creating new opportunities in the technology and digital sectors. And

as the other powers of the Scotland Act arrived in Holyrood we will set

out plans to use them to grow our economy and to protect those who are

hardest hit by hostility and by the consequences of Brexit. Scottish

Labour, doing what it has always done, stepping up to the challenges

of the future, focusing on the economy, creating jobs, improving

lives, and building a better future together.

Our second economic priority is protecting family incomes. As the

effects of rising prices begin to take all over the coming months

Scotland and the rest of the UK faces a renewed cost of living

crisis. For the first time ever real wages are expected to decrease over

the course of this Parliament. This is unprecedented and demands

attention and action. In 1946 Labour introduced family allowance because

we believe that everyone, regardless of their income, deserved support

from the Government when they had children. As demonstrated Labour's

commitment to giving every child the best start and giving every family

something back from the money that they paid in. It was an idea that

said very clearly that together we are stronger. Today, with the new

welfare powers in the Scottish Parliament, we have a duty to look

at what we can do to return to those principles. Conference, I have given

Nicola Sturgeon a fair number of ideas over recent years that she has

taken on as her own. Quite the few were made in the last conference

speech I made here in Perth, guaranteeing a living wage for care

workers, and attainment fund for every school, grants for every

looked after child in Scotland who wants to go to university, every one

of them Labour policies that I announce on this stage in 2015, and

everyone of them a Government policy.

Do not let anyone tell you that we cannot make a difference from

opposition. Today I have got another idea for Nicola Sturgeon. 220,000

Scottish children are still in poverty. Charities, anti-poverty

organisations, and others across Scotland have called for an increase

in child benefit to tackle this, and I agree. Today I can announce that

Labour will respond to calls to support families by backing the

campaign to top up child benefit in Scotland.

Using the new welfare powers in the Scottish Parliament and we will

campaign to create a new Scottish child benefit. Our plan would see

child benefit increase by ?240 per year by the end of this Parliament,

increasing by ?13 per month next year, before rising to ?20 per month

in 2020. The Child poverty Bill now in the Scottish Parliament should

take meaningful action to combat poverty as well as setting targets,

and that is why in the coming weeks we will push the Government to

include this action in the Child poverty Bill, and a stable not, we

will seek to amend the law ourselves.

Our plan routes mean help for the majority of families across Scotland

and would mean 18,000 fewer children living in poverty in its first year,

and up to 30,000 once these changes are completely implemented. It had

been starting to reverse the fall in the value of child benefit is that

families have seen over the past five years and it would send a

strong message that Scotland will not allow hard-working families to

bear the brunt of Brexit. Families across Scotland are sick

and tired of living in a divided country. They want politicians they

can trust. They want a plan to get us through Brexit. They do not want

us to divide our country all over again. That should be Labour's

priority. Throughout our history we always put working people first. The

clue is in the name. Labour. And that should be our guide again as we

begin to chart a new course for our party and our country. My promise to

people across Scotland as this. I will always put your jobs first. I

will fight for this port your family and your community needs. I will

never shy away from the challenges that our country faces and that is

why I say clearly today I will never support dividing our country.

Our country has always succeeded when we have been united. Scotland

was built by people who came together to create something bigger

than themselves, whose ideas did not just shape our country, but shaped

the world. And who realised that we have more in common, than that which

divide us. Let us discover that spirit again. Let us reach out into

our country and into the world. Let us tell Labour's story for a new

town, let us go out and tell all of Scotland that together we are

stronger. Thank you. 'S STUDIO:

Scottish Labour leader taking the applause at Scottish Labour Spring

Conference then Perth. Kezia Dugdale was saying, look to London as she

introduced the London mayor, Sadiq Khan. She was focusing in this

speech against independence. She said she would never support

independence. She was setting out her plans for federalism, to devolve

more powers to Scotland, then she switched back to independence,

launching Labour's campaign against indyref2. She talked about a wave of

automation that would hurt skilled jobs and talked about Labour's plans

for an industrial strategy. She was concerned about workers wages and

she was announcing plans to, and her view, create a new Scottish child

benefit, topping up the existing benefit. It was her challenge to

Nicola Sturgeon to try to create that.

And John Curtice is with me watching these pictures in the studio. John,

your initial reaction to that speech? I think we saw two things

begin to emerge in the speech, though in both cases they still have

a long way to go. The first as you suggested, perhaps sorbet the

beginning of the Scottish Labour Party's campaign against

independence. There was almost an implicit acknowledgement that there

would indeed be a second independence referendum, and quite a

lot of the speech was focused on that issue. And the announcement of

a website suggesting this will be the beginnings of an organisation

that might be able to fight that campaign. But the second thing,

there was also the beginnings of an argument about the way in which she

would expect a devolved Scottish parliament, a Scottish parliament

with more powers in our view should use those powers in such a way to

deal with what she thinks are some of the key issues. There were two

parts, one of the announcement that she will come up with an industrial

strategy, though no clue what it might contain, but suggesting it

might use the powers of the Scottish Parliament to promote industry in

Scotland, with a particular concern quite clearly about the implications

of technology and automation for the possible structure of the labour

market in the future in the way people might lose their jobs, and

secondly losing the welfare powers -- using the welfare powers in order

to pay increased child benefit, something that only recent Scottish

parliament could do. One other thing in terms of her vision for an

enhanced Scottish parliament, she left a somewhat hanging in the air.

She seemed to be suggesting that she would favour amongst other things

the devolution of immigration to the Scottish Parliament. It is one of

the things the SNP have called for as one of the ways it might be

possible to accommodate a closer relationship for Scotland with the

EU even if Scotland were to remain inside the UK but outside the EU,

but she did not quite make it clear whether she had the idea or not, and

I suspect we might see an attempt to follow up with some clarity on that.

Also saying she wants to devolve the labour market such as the minimum

wage, that is moving Labour on quite a way, but also putting out a

picture for the future of the devolved Scottish parliament which

is quite close to that of the SNP. The old joke at First Minister's

Questions as Nicola Sturgeon says, it is the prounion parties who bring

up independence. And we did see a great portion of Kezia Dugdale's

speech focusing on independence. Do you think it was right to do so? The

truth is we know that over the course of the last 18 months or so

Kezia Dugdale has made the odd comment that has been interpreted at

least as a somewhat ambiguous position on independence, some

people suggesting that perhaps at some point in time she might

conceive of Scotland becoming an independent country. All such talk

was dispensed with in the speech, she was trying to clarify things.

She basically said under my leadership the Scottish Labour Party

will never back independence. What she is then going on to do would buy

this federalism thing is so crucial is to try to suggest that the Labour

Party will have its own ideas on how to develop Scotland's Constitution,

and of course quite interestingly jesting maybe Gordon Brown is going

to come back into the Scottish political scene to help the Labour

Party run its constitutional convention. That will be an

interesting one to watch. Perhaps maybe it is an indication that given

that Kezia Dugdale has said that Ruth Davidson should not run the

anti-independence campaign in the event of a second referendum, was

this perhaps is suggesting that the former premiers should do so? We

will find out. Just briefly and specifically on topping up child

benefit. Labour have campaigned in the past about a something for

nothing culture, benefits that are spread out far and wide to everyone,

middle-class families would of course benefit from a top one child

benefit. What you make of that? It is interesting that the Labour Party

is promoting something that for the most part most people benefit from,

but you can tweak the tax system to take any increase away from people

at the higher end of the spectrum, which the current Conservative

Government has done across the UK as a whole. The interesting thing about

it is in truth here we get an indication of how with the further

devolution and Kim out of the Smith Commission, gradually the Scottish

Labour Party is beginning to think of some ways of being able to use

those powers. It isn't something that has grown to make Scotland a

much more equal society, it is one of those popular welfare benefits,

basically she was looking for something that was at least a

potentially headline grabbing policy. It was really in truth the

only specific detailed policy proposal that you came up with. But

when a party is in opposition not long after an election, which is the

case here, we don't really expect an awful great deal in terms of policy

detail. John, thank you for now. Let's head back to the Perth concert

Hall, Ryan Taylor is standing by with some guests. Thanks, Jackie

Baillie Andy Gray join me. The speech, let's go through some of the

detail. Something that struck me, Jackie, she says, don't want

independence, don't want an independence referendum, doesn't the

bread on tables, and yet the vast bulk of the speech was about

constitutional reform. What we want is what the people of Scotland want,

they want unity, not further division. And Kitty was very clear

about setting and why we don't think a second referendum is the priority

for Scotland. It is about jobs and the economy, making sure that

families faced with the consequences of Brexit are able to cope. That is

why her announcement today of additional money for child benefit,

putting money into the pockets of those who need it most is just so

welcome. I will come to that in a moment, but Iain Gray, stick with

the constitution for now, what is the detail of the federal plan for

England? I don't get it, I don't see whether it is region is running this

Parliament, I am not sure what it is. That is largely for the

convention that Kinsey has talked about to decide. And what it

reflects is that 20 years after devolution there is a recognition in

the United Kingdom, we have changed the way this country is constructed.

We have tended to be focused on what that means for Scotland, and we have

made real change, but there is a serious debate about the United

Kingdom as a whole. How should it be organised as the four Nations relate

to each other. There are people who he feel they have been left out of

that debate in England, and that is why Kenzie has worked closely with

Jeremy Corbyn, Sadiq Khan, we heard Ian Watson talking about it, and it

is something Ed Miliband when he was leader had started to talk about. It

is about modernising the whole country. We started at in 1999,

1997, but in the 21st century we need to look at it as a whole. Kezia

referred in the speech to perhaps immigration powers. Is that saying

there will be a distinctive Scottish immigration policy, or that the

immigration policy of the UK would reflect De Sanctis cottage needs? --

would reflect distinctive Scottish needs? We're not going to close the

door on any of this. The fact that more powers will be coming because

of Brexit, to consider afresh the power is most appropriate to hold in

Scotland. We have already heard from universities and businesses about

the real skills shortage they will have as a consequence of Brexit,

particularly people coming from Europe and further abroad. We

absolutely need to address that if we care about Scotland's economy

going into the future. Iain Gray, you accept Brexit will happen, you

accept she talked in the speech about as we leave the single market.

The idea that the Scottish Government has put forward of

maintaining some connection with the single market, you don't think that

as a starter? And other industrial, it is possible to be not in the

signal market but still have some benefits of it. There is great

complexity in the debate, but Kezia has said, and we said that in

Holyrood, we voted against the recent triggering of article 50 in

Holyrood because we do not agree with the route the Tories are

taking, but it was made very clear that we did accept the result of the

referendum. In the same way as we would like to see Nicola Sturgeon

except the result of the referendum in Scotland in 2014. Let's turn to

the child benefit announcement. It will be welcomed by many, others

will say, is it really right to be a universal benefit, should not be a

more targeted benefit? There are 220,000 children actually living in

poverty today in Scotland. That is a scandalous number. Why not support

them rather than paying universal child benefit? The whole idea is and

is universal. There are many more targeted interventions we can and

should make. The whole point of the policy on child benefit is that we

now have the power to top up child benefit. We would use those new

powers coming to the Scottish Parliament to make sure that we left

at least 18,000 children out of poverty in the first year, and by

the end of that policy, 30,000 children. Surely supporting

low-income families by doing that is a price that is absolutely worth

having. And I echo Kezia's calls. If Nicola Sturgeon wants to take this

policy idea and make it real, we would be in a line welcoming that

action. Is it affordable, would require additional taxation? It is

affordable within Labour's tax proposals. This is the perfect

combination of using the new tax powers in Holyrood to raise the

resources and using the new welfare powers of Holyrood use those

resources to left 30,000 children out of poverty. It would need a

Scottish Government with the guts to use those tax powers and not just

talk about letting families out of poverty but really doing something

about it. Final question, how frustrating is it when you see the

by-election results in England? I know you are an autonomous party and

you will tell me that, but it washes across the border. How frustrating

is that when you see your party held back in terms of making potential

advances? That's not what I find frustrating, but I find frustrating

about Copeland is a victory for a Tory Government that is doing so

much damage to the lives of working people right across this United

Kingdom. And we need to turn that around. That is the thing that I

regret most deeply about the Copeland by-election. But I have to

say I was delighted to see the failure of you get to make a

breakthrough in stroke as well -- in still. We were told before this

by-election this was the recalibration of politics in

England, that certainly didn't materialise. Goblin very bad, still

not so bad. Jackie Baillie, you don't about division. Sadiq Khan was

also talking about that, remarks at of course some contention by saying

that division between Scotland and England or Scottish and English

people, by which he meant the SNP I presume, are tantamount to divisions

based on someone's origins are religious belief. He qualified by

saying he was not saying the SNP were racist and bigoted, but what do

you make of those remarks? Helpful or unhelpful? The experience of

anyone and went through the referendum was that it was divisive,

there was no getting away from that. It divided families and communities.

It was real deep divisions that have not yet gone away. Lots of people

experienced it, people and families and committees experienced it. I

don't want that kind of division for Scotland again. I want us to be

united. There are real challenges ahead, and we don't actually begin

to meet them if we are divided as a nation. Iain Gray and Jackie

Baillie, thanks very much for joining me to discuss that speech by

Kezia Dugdale. Activist to deal and Andrew. Brian, thank you. As Brian

pointed out, Sadiq Khan did they give a speech to party members

suggesting that nationalism was as divisive as racism. As comments have

generated controversy. Let's hear what he had to say. We are living

through extraordinary times, with the world becoming an increasingly

divided lace. Brexit, President Trump, and the rise of populist and

narrow Nationalist parties around the world. Now is not the time to

fuel that division or seek separation or isolation. Now is not

the time to play on people's fears are paid one part of our country or

one section of our society against each other. In that respect there

was no difference between those who try to divide us on the basis of

whether we are English and Scottish and those who try to divide us on

the basis of our background, race or religion. Of course, I am not saying

that Nationalists are somehow racist or bigoted, but no more than ever,

what we don't need is more division and separation. There was a hasty

rewrite to that speech. Head of the speech the London Mayor spoke to our

political editor and clarified whether he thought the SNP were

tantamount to racists. Of course I'm not saying the SNP are racist or

bigots, what I am saying is that in a world that is increasingly

divided, with the Brexit results, with the election of President

Trump, with the rise of populist and narrow Nationalist parties across

the world, now is the time to come together. Now is a time for unity,

not division or isolation. Nicola Sturgeon is saying she is generally

a big fan of yours, a supporter of yours, she likes what you do, and

says she is very disappointed with this, she says it is an insult to

those who support independence on the grounds of social inclusion, the

exact opposite of what you are saying. The antithesis of what you

are saying. The antidote to Brexit, the antidote to President Trump is

not division, it isn't breaking away, it is pulling together, being

united, and recognising the fact that we can achieve far more

together than we can apart. I am really proud of the special Russian

jet between London and Scotland, and I will be talking about that today.

The fact we are far more... I see the benefits culturally,

economically and socially by us being a United Kingdom. What is

clear to me as I see the rise of populist and narrow Nationalist

parties across the world, as I see the results of Brexit and President

Trump, hope does overcome fear. Are you saying the SNP are part of

that narrow national spectrum that you are deriding? I am saying no

more than ever we must come together. In the current context of

Brexit, Trump and the rise of populist and nationalist parties we

should pull together. Do you not understand why those results and bat

why those remarks infuriated people in Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon said it

was moral bankruptcy on behalf. She needs to recognise that post Brexit,

post-Trump, Brenda is a rise of nationalists and populist parties

across the world we have got to come together. We can achieve more

together than separate. Are you saying the SNP are part of that

trend? They would say they are the antithesis. I am a proud Londoner, a

proud but, look at the special relationship between London and

Scotland. I want that to continue. I am looking forward to meeting my

speech today. I am I good friend of Scotland. I like every part of the

United Kingdom. I am a proud Mayor of London. I have had a great

response from the people of Scotland. I am looking forward to

continuing a good relationship with Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish

Government. Do you accept the SNP are a civic, democratic and

inclusive party, not the way you have perhaps said? The role that

Michael has to play in the UK, I recognise the role of Scotland, it

is important to recognise that in the current context of the rise of

populist parties, the current context of post Brexit mood, the

current context of election of President Trump we can achieve more

like pulling together than by being separate. Brian Taylor is back in

the Perth Concert Hall with some more guests.

Thank you. Three guests joining me to talk about sundry matters. Let us

talk about those remarks from Sadiq Khan, they caused a Ramey to say the

least. He did qualify them when he actually delivered. He was not colic

nationalistss Croesus, he was pointing out -- he was not seeing

nationalists were racist, he was fighting out there can be divisions

within society, he was clear and what he meant. What do you make of

it? The point that Sadiq Khan was making was that there are so many

divisions in society we should not be exploiting them but trying to

heal them. Was it clever to put racism and religious bigotry in the

same sentence as having a go at nationalism? Was that clever to put

those together? They do come from the same strain of exploiting

divisions within society. You are making the accusation again. I am

not making the accusation. We have had such a divided country over the

last few years it is neither as to come together, work together, to

heal these differences, remain and leave, yes and no, work together.

What did you make of it? I thought it was positive and inclusive

speech. I came out of it feeling very positive and included. I

enjoyed it. If you were a member of an SNP are a supporter of

nationalism you would not feel sore included or positive. He made the

case for inclusion from everybody for everybody, it was not excluding

anybody, including SNP voters, it was trying to get everybody. Nicola

Sturgeon begs to differ. Let us move on. Let us move on to the content of

Kezia Dugdale's speech. As I said earlier, she said she did not want a

second referendum, it does not put bread on tables, but then there is a

long statement about constitutional issues, is that a conundrum? No, but

what it does do is take a constitutional debate forward. You

and I are long enough in the tooth to remember when the Scottish

Parliament was established, the Welsh Assembly. Tom Watson mentioned

there are no different areas of the United Kingdom looking for something

different to what we have just now which is a high concentration of

power, not just in Westminster, but also in Edinburgh. The patchwork of

different powers across the UK and the regions of England, federalism

does not make. That is why it is a conversation and a convention and

not an agreed, this is what we want to do, because it is about

developing the items to see how it would work. We are in a different

constitutional position to where we were 20 years ago, with dramatic new

powers for the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly wanting more

powers, the Northern Ireland Assembly wanting greater powers,

with areas of England now looking to see what they can do with the new

powers in Manchester, Liverpool and the north-east. That is a difference

debate than the one we had in the north-east said no. I was good to

put that point to you, but there is not great evidence of a desire for

this in England. There is talk about it. But it tends to be about more

corporate powers, it is not federalism. No, but... It comes back

to the point that Donald Dewar made that devolution is a process, not an

event, it is about that conversation, bringing people in

these communities with us. They feel that the country is not working for

them so we need to have a conversation with them about where

power supply, about the power they should have over their own

communities. There may not necessarily be huge demand for

regional Assembly in the north of England but that is a conversation

we have got to have in the scores attritional convention. What do you

make of this? We have shown that we are listening to people. Brexit

shows that power is lying in the wrong places and they want change.

We are looking at change and asking people what they think about that.

She was talking about setting up a people's convention, with the

support of Gordon Brown, he is back. He never went away, I know, but he

is back. He did not. It is about inclusion today, we want everyone's

opinions, to tell us what they want, and that is what the people's

convention is about, hopefully we will get some ideas from people. Let

us turn to the welfare section of the speech. Something that interests

you very greatly, she is talking about deploying Social Security. Are

we saying Labour beginning to build the idea of a differential treatment

in Scotland using powers. She hinted that immigration as well. Certainly

on welfare I thought Kezia Dugdale powerfully made the argument and the

challenge, made the challenge to Nicola Sturgeon, to use the powers

that they have, and one of the areas that has concentrated lots of mind

over many years is the issue of child poverty. I remember Donald

Dewar talking about the reason he came into politics was to deal with

child poverty. The Scottish Parliament know has the powers to do

something about that. I thought that was a very powerful challenge. We

can talk about referendums until the cows come home but it will not but

the single child out of poverty when there is actually powers therefore

the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government to do so. I

thought that was a great challenge. I thought the fact that she said

they would push it through legislation if needs be, puts the

ball park back in Nicola Sturgeon's court. The use, deployment of

welfare powers? There is no use in this Parliament having these powers

and not using them, there is clearly a huge problem in Scotland, 200,000

children still living in poverty, we have got to do something, we have

got to do something no, we cannot stand by him let it happen. Yes, we

need to use the powers for welfare. I am a care worker so I know how it

has hurt and we need to be doing something about it. You have seen

evidence in the area where you work? Yes, all the time. We have got to

use it. Could we afford it? You can always promise money on this and

that that there is a limited budget and element that tolerance of tax

increases as well. There is, yes. Again we need to be asking people,

getting all the information from businesses and care workers and

companies that are doing as to what they think he's doing. That is about

increasing the size of the pie, increasing the basis of income tax,

increasing the top rate of income tax. It is also about priorities.

Even within the current budget that Scotland has access to, it is about

making decisions about priorities. Do you try and lift children out of

poverty or do you reduce the area traffic tax? Ministers would argue

that could boost the economy and thereby release more bands. There is

a big debate to be had about that. All I am saying is Kezia Dugdale

laid out a set of priorities that she would enact. I thought she leads

Bulls priorities out powerful. This would make a difference to the lives

of many children in Scotland. Thank you for joining me here in Perth at

Perth Concert Hall. It is very noisy.

Back to the studio. STUDIO: Thank you. We have got Professor

John Curtice, a final thought before we go, what have Scottish Labour

achieved, if anything, at this conference? The Scottish Labour

Party has come up with what it hopes is going to be a distinctive

position on the constitutional question, federalism, and that

there's an idea of devolving responsibility for the minimum wage

30 years ago would have been anathema 30 years ago. The party has

travelled a long way. At the moment it seems to be an idea whose

substance is not certain. We have heard this afternoon that the Labour

Party is still not sure whether this includes devolving immigration to

the Scottish Parliament or not. That is a live debate. You would think

the Labour Party would make their mind up. When it comes to what does

this mean for England, the answer seems to be, we will ask people in

England and see what they say, but there is no substance at the moment

to this. But this is a policy position, designed

to help convey Labour's case for keeping Scotland in the union, in

the heat and jury of an independence campaign, it has got an awful lot of

work to do rapidly, because as currently constituted, it is not

enough to sustain such a campaign. Thank you for being with us this

afternoon. More reaction to the Labour conference online and you can

join as for Sunday Politics tomorrow morning. The UK show starts at 11

o'clock. From all of us on the conference floor and in the studio

thank you for being with us and enjoy the rest of the afternoon.

Goodbye. The idea of having hot running water

and inside toilets - I want to control the situation,

show them they can trust you.